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German Railways To Get WLAN RailNet
wertarbyte writes "According to the German IT news site Heise, german Telekom and the german railway corporation Deutsche Bahn have formed an alliance to equip the ICE high speed trains with WLAN access (Babelfish translation), as well as the stations those trains arrive at. This offer is aimed at business travellers, and will first be introduced on routes frequented by those ("travel time is usable time")."
...how much will it cost?
Where is this "free beer" everyone is always talking about? I must be getting screwed...even Keystone Light is costing me 15+...
War-railing?
If only they had this in Canada. I used to take the train several times a month for 5 hour trips, and interent would have been real nice for working on assignments using my laptop. Instead, I had to work offline, then quickly connect for about 30seconds to update stuff when we would pull into a station. This could be very handy if more places start implementing it.
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From time to time I travel on train for a few hours. On business class I can get an electric outlet for my laptop so it doesn't run out of power while I work. It is nice that I can get some work done in the train.
But it is really annoying to be disconnected from the net while I travel by train.
I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for the ticket if I could have access to the net. (Well, I don't pay the ticket myself. But my company wouldn't mind paying either.)
This is interesting. Putting a bunch of wireless routers on a train is simple enough, but this will only get you a closed, local area network. I wonder how Deutsche Bahn plans to get packets to and from trains moving at high speed, especially considering the promised bandwidth. I can imagine several ways, but none seem cost effective.
After all, I am strangely colored.
...Google does a better translation; at least it has no odd question marks.
Most interesting: "In order to lead the data from and to the driving course to, the British set on a Wimax net along the distance, which is to transfer up to 32 MBit/s" If that means download rates will be up to that much, I wouldn't mind something that fast on my DSL (mine barely reaches 3MBit/s). Especially in the middle of a railroad (unless that 32 MBit/s is shared by every commuter on the train).
FWIW, here's the original I believe, for those that understand such a language.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Those Europeans get all the cool Train stuff........
Insert Pithy Quote here.
This indeed was far more civilized than any train I had been in the U.S., and also was much nicer than the horror of ever more cramped planes. All it was missing was wifi. If they change that, it will indeed be very cool.
The same kind of thing was recently put into place on certain routes of the Washington State Ferries, one of which I use daily.
It's a really good idea, but I wonder if rail will have the same limitations I experience with our own system (boats).
Mobilisa's "Wireless Over Water" is cool- when we're in the slip or not too far from it. The trip I take is 35 minutes each way, the first 5-7 minutes and the last 5-7 minutes are awesome, but the whole time in between (from either Seattle or Bainbridge Island) is riddled with drop outs and disconnects.
Well, it's a boat in the middle of the water, you might say. Yes, but not really any different from a train that has to move between access points along its own route. If they put enough of them in, great, but on a bullet train how bad would it suck to have a drop out every few minutes while it moves from one hotspot to the next?
Yes of course the contractor implementing it will say that won't happen, but they said that about our in-commute Wi-Fi, too.
R(k)
And if you work as a contractor..."travel time is billable time!"
I believe the ICE already offered this service in first class. At least there were some advertising brochures laying around that mentioned somthing about this. Tip: If you reserve a seat with a table there is a standard wall outlet under it that delivers 220v so you can be gaming or watching movies on your laptop the whole trip without worrying about batteries. This has become my preferred way of traveling inside Europe. The addition of wifi makes the the PERFECT form of travel!
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
If /. is going to link to auto-translated articles, I would prefer that the Google translator is used. Both because it translates fine and because it contains a link to the original text for those who understand the original language.
I sent this to slashdot like a week ago but I guess they didn't find it appropriate.
p /
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/03/03/subway.tvs.a
VIA Rail already offers this serveice in Canada:e n_index.h tml
http://www.viarail.com/wirelessinternet/
Wi-Fi on the train, Internet heandled by 2 way to a Bell satellite
Will consumer-grade WLAN equipment be able to deal with issues such as Doppler shifted frequencies and dilated packet times?
This might possibly play out the same way the widespread use of cell phones did. If you have a cell phone you are expected to be reachable and therefore maybe called upon more often "just incase". Once everyone gets a cell phone everyone is called upon more often. Now if the company knows you have Internet access on the train and notice an increase in your productivity. Do you think they may expect more of you?
It is great. Access is free in the 1st class seats and the speed is good. I was travelling at 100mph on my way to London while IM chatting with friends in Canada.
http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/qs-ba nner-01.png
The New York Metro Transit Authority is so screwed up. Such a bloated fat government-subsidized monopoly such as them, which is constantly raising fares and cutting back service because they are hemorrhaging cash, would be wise to roll out services like this. I would pay good money for WiFi on my daily commute on the Long Island Rail Road.
I have long thought of starting a committee or PAC to try and make this happen. I would create a web site like LIRRWiFi.org and get people involved by posting flyers on trains and in Penn Station. Too bad I'm about to take a new job where I won't be commuting by train every day. Can't really do WiFi while driving...
How does the Internet link on the train works? Specially if it's moving at such great speeds and over (usually) large geographical areas, with all kind of topographical changes (think tunnels, bridges, forest areas, etc.).
What kind of internet connection must the train count with in order to keep the IP address (and not to drop the current connections)? What speed does that kind of link can get? What are the technical requirements for such a thing to work?
Just some thoughts out of my ignorance.
Regards,
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
transmit the WAN signal the same way they do the power. Either thought the rails or a over head wire. Then connect the wire to WiFi routers within the train.
Yes, but does it support Linux?
so - can you wardial for 15 seconds at a time if you live near the tracks?
My mother rides these german trains frequently, and even though she's an IT manager and would direclty benefit from this feature, I don't think that she would end up using it. She is technically skilled, being an IT manager, but the overhead of trying to figure out how to use the service, how to get your work to reimburse you for it, etc would cause her to not even bother. Will it make enough money from the people willing to use it? I dunno, maybe.
Want to learn about anything sexual? Check out the sex wiki:
Sooner or later, we can just walk around with our laptops with internet. Anywhere we want... Just think
http://onticfusion.sytes.net/
... wherease we get no trains. Bush is planning to cut all federal funds for Amtrak, which will pretty much kill it.
I want my uber-trains with wifi, darnit!
This RailNet thing is ub3r c00l!!!
Next on the list: "Airlines to get SkyNet!"
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Accoding to the german version, a speaker (a guy talking, not an audio device) says that "in the future" train stations will be covered, at least those where the ICE trains stop (as opposed to just drive through). Currently only their "DB Lounges" are served by WLAN.
What keeps me going is my inertia.
Where is this "free beer" everyone is always talking about? I must be getting screwed...even Keystone Light is costing me 15+...
Looks like you'll have to go to the European Union, which is promising both free beer and strong economic growth, so you won't have a problem.
IANAGerman but I can beat google on this one. Doing this quickly but I'm happy the content is right:
"accordinng to british media sources the british firm 't-mobile uk' plans to test this between london and brighton on the Southern Express in march and april.
To allow data in and out of the trains they're setting up a wimax network along that stretch of track that should provide up to 32mbps."
This has existed on the Linx train between Copenhagen and Gothenburg since July 2003. On that train, a rotating sattelite reciever/transmitter was placed on top of one of the cars of the train.
Linx has recently gone out of business and has been bought out by SJ (Swedish railways). SJ has also announced (Swedish article) that 85 of its trains will also be equipped with WLAN.
New (better) tools have always made people more productive and faster and more accessible means of communication have lead to increased communication. There was a time when books were duplicated by hand and messages took weeks to deliver.
Some of us are not constrained to speaking only English. Please link to the original language of an article and if someone wants to translate it, they can post a babelfish or other link in the comments.
Do you think they may expect more of you?
The solution to this is remarkably simple -- people need to stop being such damned pushovers. I don't understand why more people feel the need to complain about how management expects more out of them now that they're more easily reachable; all they have to do is show a little backbone and stand up for their free time once in a while.
When people negotiate pay, they need to take availability into account. Want to be able to call me on Saturdays? That'll cost you a few thousand more a year, because I value my free time. Want to send me on business trips? Here's the minimum per diem I expect. A retired gentleman I worked for a few months ago gave quite a lot of testimony as an expert witness for product liability lawsuits, and his view on it was simple: he starts getting paid the moment he walks out his door. If they want him bad enough, they'll pay it, and he makes a bundle; otherwise, he can stay at home and enjoy his retirement.
Lufthansa, the german flagship airline already has wifi on most flights. You pay a fixed fee and can surf the whole flight. I can't remember the actual price, surely it's on their site.
WiMAX has a theoretical bandwidth (warning: pdf, see pg 5) of about 4.5Mbps per 3.5Mhz channel (outdoors, range 15km)... so it will probably mean they utilize approximately 7 channels (= 31.5Mbps). Having 32Mbps per user would be an insane amount of bandwidth and channel usage. Of course it all depends on the details which are not provided...
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Wimax gear soon to be available is fixed wireless.
As of the fall, Mobility was still being worked on. Certainly no hardware available. So I still wonder how they are going to do this. Maybe just don't intend to deploy all that soon.
please nobody moderate this post, but use it for something more useful to the conversation, just leave this at 0
Slashdot to get WLAN DupeNet
I take the train at my own expense on some business trips so I can relax and get away. Pagers, cell phones, and other devices do not work along railways in the South in most cases, so you have some "relax" time until the phone starts ringing in a major city. This may actually cut their business because some of their customers will just take the plane if they are going to have to communicate with people again!
http://dont.spam.me.anymore.com
ok, i'm at a loss on this one, help me out folks. We learned yesterday that we are supposed to consider it evil if a municipality wants to deploy wifi over an entire village/town/city. Is deploying it over a railroad system supposed to be good, or evil?
I was at home in India during Nov-Dec and was surprised to see the spread of broadband there. RailTel (http://www.railtelindia.com/) has already laid an extensive optic-fiber network to connect the railway stations in India - keep in mind India has the biggest rail network in the world, albeit not the widest in territorial span.
RailTel has a pilot experiment running on a high-speed train in western India where they are providing wireless access on the train. There are plans to extend that to the rest of the network. Of course, only some chosen, elite trains will get it, but they will get it nonetheless.
For the price-conscious, I should let you know that the internet cafes at some railway stations in India provide internet access at less than $0.50 per hr and international calling for $0.10 per min through VOIP.
Can you say, "420"?
What does bahn mean anyway? I've also seen it in autobahn.
well if you're actually working on the train then you should be able to book those hours towards your working time... this then leads to the next step of getting them to recognise that you can work from home just as well...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
If they can only survive through government funding, Amtrak obviously isn't being used enough to merit its existence. Why shouldn't their funds be cut. Right now, a train ticket does not cost significantly less than a plane ticket. Traveling from one side of the US to the other takes a matter of hours by plane, but days by train (I've done it both ways).
Now, maybe this would be different if roads weren't almost entirely government funded, since more people would use trains as an alternative to driving. But right now, there is no good reason the government should be funding Amtrak.
The only things trains are good for in the US today are commuting short distances, transporting cargo, and tourism. Even high speed trains would never be able to compete with air travel on speed, or price.
R.I.P. Amtrak
If you happen to be in Germany take the ICE from Cologne to Frankfurt. The track mostly goes right along the A3-Highway and the new ICE 3 achieve speeds here at 300km per hour (that's about 187 mph).
/. or even do something useful with your time. I'm waiting for this for years. It's great that "Die Bahn" is finally going to do it.
It's already quite exciting to watch all the BMW and Mercs look like they were parking on the hihgway even if they are going at full speed (remember there is mostly no speed limit).
Now, have a coffee and read
...is WLAN-enabled and it has been for quite some time I think. The link to the outside world seems to be managed with the help of 3G and satellites. More info here
If they can only survive through government funding, Amtrak obviously isn't being used enough to merit its existence.
Great! Let's apply that logic to planes and cars.
Why shouldn't their funds be cut. Right now, a train ticket does not cost significantly less than a plane ticket.
That's because the infrastructure and operating expenses necessary for flying are heavily subsidized by the government (i.e., your and my tax dollars)
Traveling from one side of the US to the other takes a matter of hours by plane, but days by train (I've done it both ways).
That's because the US railroad infrastructure is thoroughly obsolete--it doesn't haev to be that slow.
Of course, for coast-to-coast trips, planes will remain significantly faster for some time to come, but planes could be competitive for the most heavily traveled routes, up and down along the coast, within the mid-west, and other regional trips.
Once again. This time using the preview function prior to posting:
I live in Denmark, just north of Germany, and would really like to see this in danish trains.
Seems that I live in the same Denmark. The one north of Germany, that is.
The Danish railways are planning on having this available from the end of 2005. It will be free when travelling on first class. Otherwise the price will be 10-20 DKK = 1.30-2.60 EUR = 2-4 USD per trip. (Based on the currency exchange rates I remember from the top of my head.)
I'm moving to Germany
... does it run Linux?
What I can't understand is the fact you don't have high-speed rail in the densely populated northeast (and, no, the Acela doesn't count) which could easily support it - not to mention the shitty public transport in most of your larger cities.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Look at the timestamp... Sun March 06, ^^:^^?
/. main page is stale?
Posted by Zonk on Sun March 06, 4:25
10 hours without a new story.
Don't you think
Editors on vacations...
Lsat psot?
Going on 12 hrs no new story on front page. When will netcraft confirm it?
In the UK I've been using Orange 3G to provide network connectivity. Its still a bit patchy, but its good enough for most tasks and its superb as you get towards London or other major cities.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
I've got a 3G phone, Broadband at home, WiFi in cafe's and now there is internet on the trains and planes.
Time to buy that Faraday cage.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
Wireless Internet access has been available on VIA Rail in Canada since the end of 2003.
the ICE (high speed train) is used by huge amounts of people for business travel, from and to work, if you are able to clock in 2 hours of work on the rail the chances are your boss is willing to pay for it, so I think we will start seeing companies buying hours by the hundreds, and thats a lot more intertesting than some leisure travellers.
Heck, even the regular IC (InterCity, as opposed to ICE=InterCityExpress) trains do have 220V power sockets. At least at the table seats. You'll find them mounted to the side walls in plain sight, IIRC.
Ha. To me travel time = nap time.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Instead of Solitaire! Whoohoo!
Don't bother paying for it though, it's just marketing gone bad again...
It's a 2400bps connection on a high-speed train, hence "high-speed connection".
I take Amtrak regularly from Sacramento to SF and we have had wifi for about a year. Its still beta and only on one train, so its dumb luck when you get it. As far as Amtrak failing from what I understand its a lot of issues many of which along the lines of mismanagement and not adapting to chainge.
The line between San Jose and Sacramneto (the Capitol Coridor) is semi independant from the rest of the network and as far as I know is the only profitable line in the whole country. The route is so popular they have had to upgrade the tracks to and add lines because of congestion. It costs about $20 for a ticket each way and it takes the same time as driving. On fridays you have to fight for a seat if you take the rush hour trains.
Amtrak needs better funding, but it needs a complete overhual of its structure first.
Mad propz to my german homies.
The "infrastructure" for flying consists of airports, which are highly government regulated, so it's probably only fair that they should be subsidized.
"the US railroad infrastructure is thoroughly obsolete--it doesn't haev to be that slow"
The US railroad infrastructure is not obsolete, you just don't know the difference between Light rail (used for transporting passengers) and Heavy Rail (used for transporting cargo). With heavy rail, you want to move as much as possible, as cheaply as possible. Since running vehicles at higher speeds results in lower fuel efficiency, you don't want cargo trains to go fast.
Lets see, the fastest bullet trains travel a bit over 100 mph, the slowest airplanes travel a bit slower than 300 mph. To have access to air travel, you need only an airstrip, to have access to a light rail system, you need a set of rails devoted specifically to passenger transit. So. . . in a country as spread out as the U.S. it doesn't make a lot of sense to put in a country wide light rail system. Using air travel is faster, and cheaper. Now in Europe, where things are a lot less spread out, it makes sense because the higher level of use per length of track can make up for the cost of building and maintaining the track. That's because trains are more fuel-efficient than aircraft.
"Great! Let's apply that logic to planes and cars."
Well, okay. Plans and cars are doing great right now, so it's not wasted money. But Amtrak just isn't being used, why pay for something no one uses. It doesn't make any sense. Don't get me wrong. I think that the government should stop subsidizing roads and air travel. It would be nice for consumers to pay the cost of maintaining roads while they drive. It would probably encourage fewer people to commute, and those that do to seek out options other than driving. But, given the current state of reasoning in the US, I don't think that would fly.
"Of course, for coast-to-coast trips, planes will remain significantly faster for some time to come, but planes could be competitive for the most heavily traveled routes, up and down along the coast, within the mid-west, and other regional trips."
Not really, advances in aircraft control technology has lead airlines to believe that it is possible to run more direct fights. They want to use smaller, faster planes to run direct flights, and replace the slow and annoying hub-based system they use now. It's hard to imagine that a light rail system would be able to compete with that on speed, or price.
ISP--->Overhead/underhead Line---->Train network---->802.11---->Laptop