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What Happened to Simputer?
An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com has published a brief update on the much-heralded Simputer, the Linux-based 'platform for social change' that was intended to bring inexpensive, easy-to-use computers to rural Indian villages. In the last 12 months, only about 4,000 units have been sold -- well below the planned 50,000+ units. Three Simputer models priced from $240 to $480 were introduced by PicoPeta one year ago, whereas the original goal was a maximum of $200. A cost-reduced redesign is reportedly in the works."
My sympathy goes to them for failing twice.
I wonder if they did have market research to identify the need? You can't just build and hope they will come anymore.
This reminds me of a joke where a group of settlers came to this island and gifted the chief some pet gold fish as a gesture of good faith, but the chief just ate all the them.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
You mean after 11 days this thing has again failed to win over the Indian market?
Maybe they should set slightly more long-term targets.
Assuming I can wait that is.
If I'm in the third world, I can probably wait.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
200 USD ~ 8600 Indian Rupees There is not money for some people even to feed themselves and heir children ... How would they buy computers ?
What's the deal with these low cost computers over the last few years. First the simputer for poor rural farmers in India that only cost about a year's salary. And more recently the $100 laptop coming out of MIT.
How about we really do something with technology to help these people? Like setting them up with running water, electricity, a house that doesn't leak? Maybe get them enough food or decent medical care... It seems like a waste to invest so much in giving out low cost computers to someone at risk of starving to death the next day or is at high risk of deadly illnesses.
It's a nice goal to have everyone connected. But you have to ask "why?" Are we trying to find a new source of ideas to exploit? I don't see how hooking people up to the net is going to help them out when their basic needs aren't met...
There's the education argument. I'm not sure whether these will provide more access to information. In certain areas it definitely will. But then what do you do with that education when you have no infrastructure to support it... I know it's slashdot and it's all about tech, but hwo about focusing on some tech that would really help people.
Even the comments are dupes. ^_^
The first thought that comes to mind after viewing such an object is, "yet another gadget for the tech savvy." It's like those people who buy the Nokia 9500 (correct me if that model no. is incorrect) $1000 "super phones" or other such gadgets that are more "I have this, look how cool I am and also rich!"
Will these gadgets really bring about a social change? I really don't believe so. Either way I look at it, I see these gadgets as doing little more or the same or even less than a Pocket PC, but including Linux instead of Windows. In other words, they are trying to be "cool" and "unique" and attack the "geek" demographic directly with "ooh loonix".
Either way, I'd rather buy a cellular phone that can include all these features, like the Pocket PC Phone or whatnot. Actually, I think this is just another headache I'll have to worry about getting stolen. My $300 bucks can go to some anime DVDs featuring cute girls in schoolgirl outfits running around with magical powers because they can see a red star in the sky - especially that biker babe or the teacher - I mean WOW.
This should be a familiar problem. You try to sell a cheaper system by stripping out features. But to get rid of those features, you have to tool up from scratch, and your system ends up costing more money than you save. That's what killed the legacy-free PC, and a lot of other stuff.
Linux-based systems like the Simputer have a problem competing against Windows/x86 machines in third world markets. The problem is that Windows-compatible software is effectively free, due to piracy. And, even if it isn't strongly marketed locally, that software is made more attractive by all the money spent promoting it elsewhere. (And, this is a dupe, too. The Linux Devices story even links to the same AP article as the original Slashdot posting.)
Yay for duplicated comments! Never complain about the editors again.
For a about $50 you could get a 486 laptop with a distro of some for of *nix on it. Hell, enterprise chuck out laptop's all the time. Why doesn't someone just recondition them and then palm them off to India at cost if they really wanna help people out there?
Seriously, $100... why, when you could probably organise computers for India for free with a little international logistics and som..... wait...
Actually scratch all that I just remembered we are capitalists. Silly me.
www.whitedust.net
Hmm. From one of the articles, "But local governments often prefer to accept donations from Microsoft Corp. and other companies rather than pay for a new technology like the Simputer." AP. I think this is a somewhat futile project, but it's not clear it's "government-funded boondoogle." Any info?
The Simputer folks designed some really cool software for use with low-horsepower machines where people use a wide variety of languages and alphabets and village-appropriate applications. It was cool stuff, and apparently they were better at that than they were at hardware design. Sounds like it's a good time for them to recognize what they're good at and what they're not good at, and port the software to newer commercial PDA platforms and/or open it so other people can port it.
I can't tell if that $199 Dell can support USB adequately or not - too many PDA devices know how to be a USB slave that can be updated by a computer, but don't know how to be a USB master than can drive printers, modems, etc. But it wouldn't be surprising to see hardware that can do that well in a similar price range - if not now, then wait 3-6 months.
it's my totally insightful comment on this same story from last week: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=144848&cid=121 31116
--
Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
Practically impossible to imagine that the impoverished and illiterate of India wouldn't be lining up in droves to fork over years worth of wages for something as technologically underwhelming as the simputer.
It's a shame really, I nearly cry at the loss of productivity they never realized by using spreadsheets to better manage their goat hearding.
I'm really not surprised this wasn't a success. A lot of companies blindly go after "emerging markets" without really understanding them. In particular, price isn't as big of a deal as some people think it is. For example, people vastly underestimate the buying power of people in India. Even if everyone was able to afford a computer, what would they do with them? They have no training, no experience, and no support infrastructure.
Interestingly enough, there are some business models that work well. Take the "village PC" model. One person in the village buys a computer (possibly with village assets), supports it, rents out time on it, etc. Everyone in the village, regardless of their technical expertise, benefits from the technology. This model has also worked well for mobile phones.
Last quarter, there were two good talks on technology for emerging and "invisible" markets here at the University of Washington. The first is a talk by Eric Brewer (UC Berkeley) entitled The Case for Technology for Developing Regions. An abstract, video, and MP3 of the talk are available from that site. The other talk was given by John Sherry of Intel's People and Practices Research Group. PowerPoint slides, an abstract, a suggested reading list, a discussion wiki, and more. I highly encourage you to check these talks out.
Your factual accuracy would make a Fox news commentator blush.
The simputer is being funded by private capital. I've even met some of the people bankrolling it. Those rich Indian guys spend a lot of time dreaming up creative ways to make money. But most ideas like this are going to fail. It's not a "boondoggle", and entrepreneurship.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
(Note: I may be an economic conservative, but I did not vote for GWB.)
I would hope not. Where people got the idea that Bush is fiscally conservative is beyond me. Him and his super fun pals are doing everything in their power to bankrupt the country and ruin our economy. Where they got the idea that he is even a conservative at all is also mind boggling.
Republican does not equal conservative.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...being a simputer in a manbot's manputer's world?
Don't you have someone you'd die for?
They SHARE TV with the neighbours? Man someone must alert the MPAA since they are showing American Shows. Sharing is so wrong. The TV set must strictly be for the consumption of the ORIGINAL buyer. If we don't stop these sharing commies, where will the world end?
Oh the irony:
This comment posted just 7 minutes before your comment.
http://brandonbloom.name
OK, let me explain something.
When a product is first developed, that research and development cost, tooling costs, etc., need to be recouped. It is passed on to the consumers when a product is new. After a product has been on the market and recoups those costs, they prices start going down.
In effect, those rich geeks who buy all the fancy toys before everyone else subsidize the development for us poor geeks who purchase the product a few years later for next to nothing.
Making a computer especially for poor people makes no sense. Everyone knows that the killer PDAs of today will be available as $50 knockoffs from China in 2 or 3 years. I have seen old Palm PDAs people were trying to get rid of for $10-$15 bucks.
But did it have a link? Oho!
For one thing it has both USB host and device ports. I haven't seen anything else in the small mobile space that has host ports.
It's very powerful for $200. Granted the screen at that price is monochrome, so it will never be an executvie toy, but there are similar mono devices for industrial apps by companies like Symbol. I could see it used in the same kinds of applications.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
"gift" is too a verb....
It's the verb that keeps on verbing.
I think it was replaced by Femputer.
In a way, the Simputer fiasco highlights the death of revolutionary progress. Remember the cool and affordable platforms from the past? (Amiga 500, Sinclair Spectrums, C-64s, anyone??) Compact, cheap, and most importantly -- interesting.
The Mac Mini is the closest thing to that buzz these days, but even the Mini plays things pretty safe. It seems that the evolution of computing has been replaced with mediocre cries for compatibility and (heaven forbid) the increasingly awkward albatross of backward compatibility.
Fry's Electronics (electronic store chain based in California) has been making wonderfully crappy 199.00 dollar computers for years! They run Linux, and are cost-efficient in every respect. Are these other people aiming for a massive profit margin, or are they just unable to replicate the technical efficiency of the local computer-monger?
Of course it was destined to fail. How can anyone expect verry low-income households, no matter where they are located, to purchase something for which they do not have a need? A computer is a luxury, not a need. It's a tool which enables more complex informational tasks. Those with verry low-income households typically only need simple informational tasks such as word-of-mouth, basic telephone communications, and basic news delivery (currently via radio, newspaper, or TV). Other than providing an alternative method for these tasks, what does a simple computer provide?
And what about longevity and stability? Let's face it, a 20 or 30 year old car can still be useful if it works, but a 4 year old computer is almost useless even for today's simplest computing tasks. Just look at how much the computer industry and social utiliziation has changed in the past few years as related to internet access alone; Broadband, VOIP, P2P, streaming video, these things are still in a massive state of fluctuation as they experience 'growing pains'. Until the 'evolution' of the computer and the way it is used matures and stabilises the appeal of it to those with very few resources is almost non-existant.
- James
"It's a nice goal to have everyone connected. But you have to ask 'why?'"
This region of the world was recently devastated by a tsunami because there was no system in place to warn people. If everyone was connected, it would be much easier to warn these people.
Yes, even starving people can utilize information. What good is food and water to a corpse?
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
didnt' he even run as a moderate the first time around? Or was that compasionate conservative or something. Either way he had to place an acronym in front of conservative for it to be believable.
I think thie republicans are conservative and democrates are liberals idea might be a little off.
Given an average per capita income of about $3,000.00 in India, it isn't surprising that a $240 box is still looking expensive--that's a month's income. However, given that China and India are making friends in IT it isn't going to be long before we are all kicked in our global shorts :-P
Harpo Tunnel Syndrome--my wrist feels funny.
As part of our rehabilitation efforts, we set up Information Centres, using $700 laptops donated by IBM and CDMA based wireless telephones.
These Information Centres contained a large amount of daily updated information - News, Commodity and Vegetable prices, weather information and forecasts, fish prices, government schemes and subsidies that people were eligible for...
We trained local village women to use these machines - aside:our information centre was coded with XUL and therefore, Firefox, hehe - and they earned a small amount of money from printing out say - a governemnt subsidy application form.
Now - and here is where I get to the actual crux of my arguemnet, the price of technology is not the only limiting factor. Just because something costs less than $200 doesn't mean that people WILL buy it. The content - or the usefuleness of the software will ultimately be the driving force behind its adoption. Once people saw that our product was actually useful, they actually raised nearly half the cost of another machine so that there queries could be dealt with faster!
Otherwise you're just giving them an expensive solitare toy.
Why would they want a Simputer, when they could get a second hand Pentium box for half the price?
It would be better if people would just donate unused computers to these countries. I'm sure the libraries and educational institutions would appreciate them, and they would be free.
Is there a charity that does this?
Or this one.
On second thoughts, perhaps this is more to the point.
handheld technology is a useless and unaffordable novelty for these people. this sounds like just another attempt to create a market to profit from without considering the true needs of the targeted social group(s).
a stripped down palm pilot isn't going to bring about social change. if they are trying to connect rural indian villagers to the benefits of the modern technological world, then create government subsidized computing centers in rural villages. how about free e-libraries for people to access the internet, and free electronic texts from?
education and greater (free) access to information might give these impoverished people more upper-mobility. but giving them some technological novelties is really just shoving modern consumerist culture down their throats. i'm decidedly a computer geek and i can't even justify spending money on a palm pilot for myself. i could understand if these were cheap computers with free internet access, but giving poor rural villagers a stripped down pda with an organizer and what-not is really just like giving inner city kids $200 nike sneakers. maybe you'll condition them into thinking that they need these exorbitant luxuries, but you sure as hell aren't helping them in any way.
You sez:
"The simputer is being funded by private capital.
I've even met some of the people bankrolling it.
Those rich Indian guys spend a lot of time dreaming
up creative ways to make money. But most ideas
like this are going to fail."
May I know why you say "most ideas like this are going to fail" ?
Thank you !
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
.. that really helps people.
..
.. whereas Indian villagers with a cheap "Hitchhikers Guide To the Galaxy" might use it to self-educate themselves very well indeed ...
And if you've got a computer, you've got education.
I find it frustrating that you can't understand this. You may not use your computer for very educative purposes, but for sure the unwashed masses know that, with a little reading and understanding, great things can happen.
A text-file on how to dig a water well and maintain it, for example, is worth countless bytes. Cheap computers can offer information on how to treat disease, in a form that can be easily understood by many, and easily reproduced.
All those wonderful intellectual-property problems of computers are just as applicable to solving the problems of education, you know
Do not overlook the importance of education in the role of eradicating the problems of the poor. Many times, Indian villages are so destitute simply because their membership does not know how to manage their environment; computer-based education on such matters can assist the situation immensely.
Applying your standards of computer use to the scenario would only be appropriate if in fact these Simputers were being shipped to decadant well-fed grid-dwellers who don't use their technology to enhance themselves
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
The simputer has been battle hardned and is currently under trial by the Indian Army as a tactical battlefield computer. It goes by the name SATHI (an acronym). The idea is to have each field unit networked through this device for battle management. Like all things tech, its defence which foots the cost of innovation.
me:"what?"
I dont do meaning of life questions.
I see you aren't gifted with a working knowledge of English.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
They are supposed to bring knowledge, information and education to the dirt poor. Of course, the dirt poor have to play along.
:D
Maybe you should only be able to order beer and cigarettes online. Then advertise for the local library on the beer shop page.
If you are going to publicise a price target, don't pick a currency which is collapsing. If hey had stated their target price in Euors, for instance, I think that the echange rate changes would more or less covered the drif up from $200 to $240.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Simbot: I disguised myself as a Simputer so I could rule the Indians.
Bender: But why?
Simbot: Why? Why? I came here from a faraway planet ruled by a chavinistic Manputer that was really a Manbot. Have you any idea how it feels to be a Simbot living in a Manbot's Manputer's world?
Does ANYBODY ANYWHERE really want to work with a palmtop?
Of course it's easier for them to go into space now. We have millionaires with their own space program. Everybody is going into space now. When America (and Russia et al others) had done it in the 1960-70's, it was ground breaking technology. Now it's just a hobby. You can't diminish such an amazing part of Western Civilization's history like that.
click me
I have some old PC's lying around, a few monitors (colour), that I would be willing to part with for a good cause.
I've already donated some that I bought at an auction and fixed up to Good Will. If someone starts this charity it would be a *great* idea.
click me
I bought one of these things for my sims..... They seem to really like it.
Not to mention the fact that most style guides to modern writing strongly prefer a simple "first, second, etc." to the dated-sounding "firstly, secondly, etc.". The moral of the story is, don't be a Style Nazi unless you're actually a competent writer.
Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005
Yes, industry has a much better track record of never developing things that don't sell:
Apple Newton
New Coke
Microsoft Bob
Ford Edsel
Iridium (sat phones)
DivX players
Whether industry or government, if every idea is a hit, then you aren't taking enough risks.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
Dell has a sale over the weekend for $349
. aspx/outrageous_desktops?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
DimensionTM 3000 Desktop
FREE 17" Flat Panel Monitor PLUS FREE Hard Drive
Upgrade and FREE Printer!
Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor (2.80GHz, 533 FSB)
at
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features
I am soooo freaking tempted... there is also a 479 with a 19" lcd... mmmmmm.
It makes you wonder that if dell puts out those machines at that price, why cant we see cheaper prices for slower machines. For sure Dell is still making money at 349 for a full system.
Damn I was looking to upgrade my box buying a mother board and a amd64 and that is already at almost US$ 300...
It's more complicated than that. Labeling the party as "liberal" or "conservative" implies that all of the party's views are in that camp. It's quite possible to be economically conservative at the same time as being socially liberal, for example.
Name one country that doesn't claim to be a net exporter of food. You can't, because everyone claims that. I don't know where it all goes, because nobody is importing it, just exporting.
There are political reasons that everyone wants to claim to export food. Some countries will export food while their own people starve.
Actually knowing how to dig a waterwell may not be as useful as you think. Some of those areas have poison (arsenic?) in their ground water. The unsanitary shallow wells people have been using for years don't have it, while the sanitary deep wells do. At least with unsanitary wells the problem is things your immune system learns to fight off. (Mostly, I don't want to make the claim shallow wells are safe, just safer than deep wells in some areas)
Of course this depends on what area of the world you are in. If the ground water is safe in your area knowing how to dig a well can help you, if the groundwater is not safe then it is useless trivia.
Mabey they should try selling these in more than one market to more than one target demographic? I know they were designed for rural indian folk but they don't have alot of money.Mabey if the people that this machine was designed for saw this machine doing well in other enviroments they might think more about it's use on the homefront.
Crisis is the rule, not the exception.
Hey I used an IBM modem to bust a nut last night...
You assumed wrong!! India is now more or less 90 % wired using wireless communication. Even the lower middle class people can afford and do own cell phones. There are atleast 10 cellular companies providing cellphone connection supporting both GSM and CDMA technologies. The rates have become competitive. And there are special cables that one can buy at a nominal price to connect the phone to the computer to connect to internet - that too broad band. More over, you don't have to own a computer to browse the net. You can do it in any of the number of cyber cafes dotting that place.
As far as the failure of simputer is concerned, it is because there is better technology available to the general public at a much lower price. Infact, I read in the newspaper a few months back, of the success of a project where computer access was provided to farmers in various villages across the country by a multinational company - I think it was ITC - which helped them to check the price of seeds online and buy them at a competitive price. Ofcourse the farmers didn't know anything about computers (nor did they care) but the person managing the computer was computer literate who acted as a intermediate between the computer and the farmers. The computer was powered by using solar panels.
But couldn't this as easily be an argument for more government intervention, if the idea is to keep the price of this thing minimal, since governments are not for-profit organizations (current U.S. administration excluded, of course)? I don't understand the argument that the poor are best served by institutions whose basic objective is to make money off of those who use their products.
For relaxing times...make it Suntory time.
people who make $1-2 per day will not spend over half a year's income on a computer, nor do they form a good tax base for their government to spend such an amount on them.
Heh... I'm not in denial :) And yes... "leave me alone!" :)
You missed my point. I was asking what was funny about the original poster's joke. I also suggested that you should not use the word gift as a verb. I did not say that you could not use it that way. I still stand by my statement you should not use gift as a verb, mainly because it is awkward and leads to stupid threads like this one.
My other first post is car post.
You missed my point. I was asking what was funny about the original poster's joke. I also suggested that you should not use the word gift as a verb. I did not say that you could not use it that way. I stand by my statement that you should not use gift as a verb because it is awkward and leads to stupid threads like this one.
My other first post is car post.
You started a stupid thread in order to complain about stupid threads?
No, I noted that it leads to stupid threads in my reply. At the time of my original post, I didn't realize that it would lead to this stupid thread. What I meant was that I think that people shouldn't use the word gift as a verb because it leads to stupid threads like this one.
My other first post is car post.
Dude, the thread is about language issue that you raised. If you think the issue is stupid, why did you raise it?
My, you certainly embiggened that post.
Sweet informative mod.
I didn't get the original poster's joke. The only thing that seemed funny about it was that he was using "gifted" as a verb. That was my comment. After that, I get modded down as a troll and all the replies accuse me of not understanding English.
My other first post is car post.
Did you get the joke? What was funny about it? Or was it just not funny at all?
Anyway, you don't need a defenese to troll on Slashdot.
My other first post is car post.