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Illinois Senate OKs Violent Games Bill
The Illinois senate has approved the violent games bill proposed by Gov. Rod Blagojevich. The bill was also passed by the House, but the Senate stripped the possibility of jail time out of the wording before approving it. The House must now reconsider the bill before it can be passed into law. From the article: "The sponsor, Sen. Deanna Demuzio, denied the measure would interfere with free speech rights.'Video games are not art or media,' she said. 'They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war.' Apparently I have been misinformed as to what exactly I've been doing for the last twenty-odd years. Thank you, Illinois Senate, for correcting my error.
That's funny. My sister has classes in art school to make 3D Art for Video Games.
I'm sure she would be surprised to learn that she is getting a "simulation" degree and not an Art degree.
Why can't our legislators deal with real problems, you know like our economy and the environment. Oh yeah, because this makes for an easy deamon.
They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war.
We couldn't find the weapons of mass destruction because of bad war simulations. The Marines have been training by playing Lemmings!
How can they say that it's not art? What about pen and paper, then? It has it's roots in war simulations from way back when video wasn't feasable. Are books about war simulations, since they recreate the war as a visual image in our heads? The question I want answered now is what should and shouldn't be considered art, if practically everything can be considered a simulation by someone's standards?
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
The ESRB already has a rating system. Games too sexually explicit are rated 'A' and many retailers don't carry them.
I guess that doesn't cover violence though.
"Video games are not art or media," she said. "They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war."
,Compare the number of violent crimes related to computer games with those related to people taking bits from the bible a bit too literaly .
They are art and media , Some games atleast are comparable to works of literature other are stylistic master works.
Yet i doubt the lady would have any problem with kid reading great works of literature, religious books or historical documents , Alot of which have explicit violance which is far in excess of that of games.
These games do not turn people into violent sociopaths anymore than reading the bible/torah/tao te ching/quoran etc does
The numbers would fall heavily in favour of banning the book if we did .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Aren't violent / sexual games already restricted from being sold to minors? That's why we have the ESRB...
Well its a good thing I've had all this military training, off to join the army!
Does this mean that I was simulating goomba smashing and princess rescuing all this time?
-Dipster
The article states that most Senators in the state don't believe it'll really be enforced. And that some of the Senators are going to vote for it just to prevent them voting against being used against them later on. So basically it's no-lose for the Senators. They don't care about the bill, because they doubt it'll really be enforced. And they get to say "I protected the childrens!" next time campaign roll around. Useless feelgood legislature at it's...finest.
"It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
Ah, good ol' Violent Games Bill. He was the best GTA player I ever saw.
How could anybody in the great state of Illinois not like that guy?
Keep on truckin' Bill!
everything else has been fixed? No one is hunrgy. Homeless. Foreign relations are tip top. Gas prices are back to normal. Everyone has healthcare. I'm sure that will be top news on google any second now. What a wonderful job. I'll have to write my Republican representatives and tell them what a wonderful job they are doing. At least that one won't get a long winded NO you communist response...
Let's float some other equally meaningful statements, for comparison's sake:
This is actually kind of fun, maybe someday I'll get elected to something and can use this kind of bizarre hyperbole to compare things I don't appreciate or understand to the military.Now everybody at Valve, ID soft.., Blizzard, Microsoft, will all :
1- go to jail
2- not sell games over there!
Way to go !
No sig for now.
Go senate.
I approve violent games too.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
As someone who plays video games and has written war simulation software, let me say that the two are VERY different.
One is very obviously created for entertainment purposes. The other is very obviously NOT for entertainment purposes. In fact, it's pretty d@mn boring.
Of course, they do have one thing in common: I doubt either has ever been proven to make anyone more likely to commit a violent act. And I doubt either makes someone more effective at it.
Since when has it been the government's job to decide what constitutes art? If this is the case, then I know of a few museums that are going to start needing to issue bans for the younger patrons.
No less amount of artistic talent is used on painting on 3D geometry than painting a traditional canvas. In fact, I know of a few game artists to paint their UVW maps on real canvas and scan them in as game readable texture files latter on.
Finally we have defeated terrorism!
'Video games are not art or media,' she said. 'They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war.'
I guess you can only assume they are talking about games that simulate battles and war. Isn't calling all video games war simulations like saying because there is porn, all movies are smut?
What about the video games that teach kids how to read? Is the military using those also? I know that the average military requirements are dropping, but I would hope that Reader Rabbit isn't part of our training.
This just in: Sometimes parents need to monitor what their kids are doing. Quick, pass some laws to place the blame on video game stores, just in case parents don't feel like being responsible.
/. ++
So what exactly does the Mario games simulate? Or Tetris? I know she is specifically thinking of violent shooter-type games when she says this, but come on.
Also:
You gotta love what our democracy has become... :/
Right. And EA can get away with working their programmers 80 hours with no overtime... Why?
I better get back to playing my DS before I forget my basic training on how to kill a man with a stylus.
Violent Video Games Can Increase Aggression
Report Shows 'Unequivocal Evidence' That Media Violence Has Significant Negative Impact On Children
Violence Is A Learned Behavior, Say Researchers At Wake Forest University
Gratuitous Media Violence Can Increase Violent Responses To Provocation, Acceptance Of Violence, Studies Show
Violent Music Lyrics Increase Aggressive Thoughts And Feelings, According To New Study; Even Humorous Violent Songs Increase Hostile Feelings
That said, the decision to ban violent video games should be a local one. If people wish to accept the risks the might come with allowing violent video games in their city, town, etc, that's fine and it's no one else's business.
Likewise, places that don't wish to accept the risks shouldn't be forced to.
If people want to live in "Safetyland", let them create such a place.
And if people want "Anarchyville", let them create a place.
But we should never advocate that one philosophy be THE single philosophy over the entire country. Let people find or make the place that's right for them.
Trust me Mr. Dippy, when the Iraqi Insurgents release their koopa troopas, you'll be our only hope!!!
Windows isn't the answer... it's the question. NO is the answer!
Still, even some critics said they would not vote against the measure for fear it would be used against them politically.
"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason -- because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."
This is why I hate the political spinmachine so much. I can just see it now- "This man ignores the blatant debasing of morals that violent games display to today's youth. Do you want this person in office?"
Thanks a lot, Baloneyvitch.
I hope they send a very clear message to Illinios politicos that video games are very much an art form and worthy of comparison to movies, literature, and photography. Hell, video games are outselling every other medium out there these days.
So, I really hope that all gaming company execs will take a few minutes today to send an email to these boneheads in Illinois.
"I'm going to vote for this bill, but I'm voting for it for one reason -- because this is a political bill," said Sen. Mike Jacobs. "If I vote against it, it will show up in a campaign mail piece."
This really concerns me. I'd like to think that politicians would have enough faith in the populace that they could vote against bills they didn't agree with. If someone mentions this as a "doesn't care about the kids" swipe in a campaign brochure, they should respond with a "protecting free speech" piece in theirs. If they made their position clear on this issue before they were elected no-one should be surprised enough about it to vote the other way the next time just because of that. Then the politicians might actually enforce the principles in the manifestos they were voted in on to some extent - imagine that!
One good turn - gets all the covers.
I knew it all along. Just another scheme of Princess Diana's to make us prepared, should she ever become captured. Pity there were no cars in Super Mario..
Let her know how you feel demuzio@senatedem.state.il.us I know I am.
-Diomedes
"Simulations"? Awesome! I was worried that I was a slowly weakening pasty-faced desk jockey wasting my life in the cold blue glow of a computer monitor but maybe that's not true.
If this bill passes it will be LEGAL PROOF that I am actually a expertly-trained bad-ass motherfucker.
I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
Of course they're just simulations.
How else does one expect to get a job as a tetris engineer without first practicing in the simulator?
nil
So some arbitary video game sales company gets to choose what it can sell to under 18's or not. Come on they're just going to sell what ever they can.
My question is why doesn't this act punish parents for letting their children play games that are not suitable. If your kid plays GTA or Doom and then goes and kills his class mates the parents should not have a chance to blame any video games because they should be marched off to jail double time and sevearly punished for not being botherd to raise their kids right.
"Oh we don't have time to raise our kids right because of X, Y and Z reason"
well then why did you have unprotected sex in the first place you stupid fornicator. I know it feels better but then you end up with kids you don't want. They feel unwanted and play computer games to fill the void instead of for fun. Your never around to send them down the right path. If you even knew what that was to start with considering you got yourself in this situation.
Then one day after years of neglect and abuse the kid snaps. Now your looking for anyone to blame except yourself. hmmm... you need an easy target for you lame ass brain to latch onto.
Must be the games, music or the TV. Anything exept the obvious.
grrr...
use protection and shut-up.
Video games are not art or media? WTF! That's the last straw, I'm going to writing some real mail to express my displeasure with the idiocy coming out of the state house here. If you live in Illinois, I would encourage you to write as well. Here is a link to contact info for Sen. Deanna Demuzio.
p ?s=y&step=8&id=++++52845
http://energyaction.ase.org/legdirectory/Index.as
Capitol Address
Senator Deanna Demuzio
M106 Capitol Building
Springfield, IL 62706
Phone: (217) 782-8206
Fax: (217) 854-5311
District Address
Senator Deanna Demuzio
140 Carlinville Plaza
Carlinville, 62626
Phone: (217) 854-4441
Fax: (217) 854-5311
demuzio@senatedem.state.il.us
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
but I sent her an e-mail. demuzio@senatedem.state.il.us 'Video games are not art or media,' she said. 'They are simulations, not all that different from the simulations used by the U.S. military in preparation for war.' It really discourages me to see Democrats taking the wrong side on the issue of video games. While Republican work hard to restrict the rights of gays and force moral codes based on religious beliefs into laws, we need Democrats to stand up for what is right. Video games are not just for children. Obviously, we must protect our children. But we must protect that adults still have the rights to do things they choose as long as it isn't harming other people. Video games do not cause people to become violent. Watching news footage of the "war" in Iraq does not cause people to become violent. Violent people are the problem and some of them are drawn to violent video games. Video games are just as much art and media as a book. They present a world and tell a story. This media is just interactive. That does not make the game a simulation. A simulation is something based in reality. You have real situations, with real interfaces that are actually practical in the real world. Controlling some person through a controller is not a simulation. If I want to steal a car in the real world, I can't push a button that just allows me to do it. If you really want to make a difference, stand up for the rights of all people. Demand stricter penalties on stores that do not enforce the ESRB rating system. Have a campaign so that parents understand the ESRB rating system. Quit pandering to the right and stand up again for what America stand for. Freedom.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
so as a store owner i can determine that no game is too viloent or sexually explicit and just sell it to anyone?
always mosh clockwise
Is training on simulators that teach them to nuke the crap out of anything that moves, then send in civvies to clean up the fallout (Civ 1 & 2)?
Is training on simulators to pimp, have sex with prostitutes, become the mafia, kill indescrimatly and have no respect for the law (GTA 3)?
Is training on simulators to kill the scientists best able to contain a dimension breach purely because it's bad for their image not to (Half-Life)?
I'm disturbed... Alternatively, maybe computer games are an art form - albeit one that some people find distasteful... I vote that anyone who believes video games are not at least as good as novels as art forms be made to read the entire Harry Potter series and *then* play the entire Final Fantasy series for comparison.
Programming is an Art. I am an Artist. Does that mean I get to wear a daft hat?
Oh wait... Blagojevich and Demuzio are Democrats. :-o
"That said, the decision to ban violent video games should be a local one. "
What is local? Your home? Block? Town? County? State? Region? Country? Planet? Saying it should be a local decision is sort of like saying too violent. How do you define it? Frankly most places have a rating system for movies, books, and magazines. Why not for video games? If twelve year old bobby can be restricted from seeing the Matrix in the theater then why shouldn't he be restricted from buying GTA in the store?
Frankly this up roar about free speech is not really about free speech at all. It is the game companies worrying about pockets. What is wrong with MAKING parents buy a video game? It is not making them illegal must making it illegal to sell them directly to minors.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
All this does is merely employ lots of homeless people. The kids will pay them 5 bucks so they will buy them a game. Some store policies prohibited the sale of violent games to minors before the law was passed anyway. This really doesn't change much here in Chicago.
I don't usually bother emailing senators, but denying that video games are art (and even that they are not media), and implying that they should not be protected by free speech infuriates me...
Here's the note I sent to the senator. Feel free to use it as inspiration, but don't copy it verbatim.
---snip---
To: demuzio@senatedem.state.il.us
Subject: proposed restrictions on the sale of videogames
Senator:
I am disappointed and insulted to learn of your uninformed opinion concerning the video game industry and its products. Specifically, the news article at:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/200505 20/ap_on_hi_te/video_games
reports you as saying:
As a professional programmer, I am deeply offended by your opinion that video games are not art.
Computer programs on the scale of video games require a great amount of creative ability - literally millions of lines of computer code are required for every game produced. Making hundreds of esoteric processor operations into millions of commands which provide an interactive user experience is definitely an art form. Furthermore, the graphics created for these games are clearly art.
Please refrain from such flippant dismissal of my work and that of my colleagues. I am sure I do not need to remind you of the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics report which states that 44 out of every 1,000 private sector workers in Illinois are employed by high-tech firms (http://www.childrenspartnership.org/youngamerican s/statefacts_il.html#2).
Since you were quoted by a very popular news aggregation site
(http://politics.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/05 /20/1458236&tid=219), many
of your constituents are sure to share my sentiments.
---snip---
Porn is a simulation too, but it is considered both art and free speech. These are not exclusive categories.
There is no reset button in life; however, there are bonus levels.
1. Change my store, if I sold things other than games, so that the games were in one section seperated from the rest of the store.
2. Institute an enforced "no kids" policy for that part of the store.
3. When parents complain, and they will, explain that the Illinois legislature had tied my hands, and this was the only way I could be sure I was complying with the new law.
4. Sit back and wait for the law to change.
Since I like irony, I would probably make sure to put all the violent R rated movies near, but outside that section, very prominently displayed. (I noticed that they sell Guinea Pig in Best Buy... )
If any parents asked why I was OK with kids being allowed in the R-Rated movie section, I'd say, "Well, because according to the Illinois legislature, violent R-Rated videos won't turn your kids into zombie killbots, but video games will."
Of course, this would only work if all the other major retailers in the state did something similar.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
I never knew video games were not unlike war simulations the military has. In that case my mom should be the greatest general we have, she must beat tetris atleast once a day.
Kinda persuades you to join the army though doesn't it? I mean how bad can it be if you've got over-shield, cloak, an asault rifle and an energy sword. Tell south korea to watch out of i'll go "running wild" on 'em
i don't care
Hm, penny-arcade.com is downish at the moment so I can't pull up their classic comic on the issue, but the punchline goes something like 'If video games aren't a form of speech, then why are you concerned with a message they may be sending?'
Somebody's seen The Last Starfighter one too many times.
I say force these fools to play ICO and then see what they say.
This sort of bullshit would never happen if teen agers could vote.
------ Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government.
On a different note, if a judge somewhere does agree that video games are not art (whether or not it's protected speech), will that have an impact on how copyright law will apply to video games.
Illinois Nazis.
I hate Illinois Nazis.
As an inhabitant of Illinois, I would liketo apologize for the dim-witted actions of our political leaders as they not only condemn video games as a form of mind melting evil, but also strip away the title of art from them. I am from a family of computer programmers, and my father, brothers, and I have all made games and they are definitely art. To have our hard work insulted by our own officials is embarrassing. Again, I'm sorry for their numbskullery. And although I realise that the law itself is for all purposes not enforceable, they still make games in general the enemy, all in the name of "protecting our families". ugh.
Out of curiosity... why is it our schools cannot teach children some fundamental facts of life, forced to leave such decisions with the parents, when video game salesmen are permitted to do such a thing? Strange, I would think that parents would feel the need to take such resposibility on themselves and the legislature support them; instead the government seems to believe parents incapable of overseeing their children. In that case may I also posit that the whole school-family separation is equally flawed? "the Senate version removed the possibility of jail" And whose bright idea was it to put it in there in the first place? That's just as bad as the Three-Strike policy and sending someone to jail for life because they happen to steal a Video Tape on their third strike. "You're corrupting the innocent minds of our youth. Now you will pay for such underhandedness!" Uh huh, right Legislature, I'm sure we should all jump on the band wagon here with you... right after we scrub sexually suggestive material from the Silver Screen and the Air Waves, crack down on the use of swearing by younger and younger generations, totally nail teenagers/adults to the wall who come to seduce younger kids to trying drugs, etc etc etc... Wait, no, we'll simply try and crack down on video games, because they're the spawn of Satan. Right. Wouldn't you time be better spent encouraging people to teach children/teenagers/adults the separation between Reality and Fantasy? Just because you blow people up in a game doesn't mean you can do it in reality? Maybe offer easier/more useful access to psychologists and reduce the social stigma of meeting such professionals? Or, perhaps, we'll suffice with the blind knee-jerk reaction that legislature is always so willing to produce and say to hell with the actual problem, let's pretend like we know what we're doing. Fortunately the Senate, in some regards, wasn't so blind. A pity no one was willing to stand up for what was best, too busy worrying about their job! Got to love the system where it isn't liberty that counts, but an image or the appearance of liberty.
If the first amendment is versatile enough to "shield [the] painting of Jackson Pollock, music of Arnold Schoenberg, or Jabberwocky verse of Lewis Carroll," Hurley, 515 U.S. at 569, we see no reason why the pictures, graphic design, concept art, sounds, music, stories, and narrative present in video games are not entitled to a similar protection. The mere fact that they appear in a novel medium is of no legal consequence. Our review of the record convinces us that these "violent" video games contain stories, imagery, "ageold themes of literature," and messages, "even an 'ideology,' just as books and movies do."
--8th Circuit Court of Appeals
Doesn't look like the courts agree with you, does it, Senator? And seeing as how the courts determine whether or not the laws you make are constitutional and valid, that should concern you quite a bit.
Rob
And for the people comparing this to movie ratings -- there is a subtle difference: kids watching movie in the theater are NOT "at home" where parents can efficiently control what they see/do. Games ARE played at home.
Of course by the same argument we do not need ratings on DVDs too... But I guess it is taking it too far.
Paul B.
All this time I've been spooked by ghosts and eating a diet largely consisting of Lemonheads, Kix, and Advil, and it was all because of that damned Pac-Man simulator! *shakes fist*
Reminds me of a shirt my room mate use to wear, I'm sure many of you have seen it:
Which I believe to be a quote from someone, though I know not who, however I felt it relevant here.
Personally I agree with the AC's who have said that the parents need to be held accountable *first* and the video game industry *second*. I am the proud father of a two year old girl. Am I about to let her start playing GTA next year? Hell no. Luigi's Mansion? Well ... actually ... she gets a little scared watching me play Luigi's Mansion. Kind of cute really, but the point is still valid. *My* daughter is going to have *My* input on what it is to be a well adjusted adult as she matures. While those of you that disagree with my viewpoints over the years may not be comfortable with that thought, she will at least be able to think.
All I can say is "Remember Rome" and start checking the aqueducts ... sorry, plumbing ... for lead.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Why is it that everyone seems so completely uninformed about everything these days, yet still hold opinions as rabidly as they would had God descended from heaven just to tell them that X political party, book, movie, person etc. was evil? It seems obvious that the backers of this bill are only mildly aware of what a video game even is, let alone informed enough to pass law on it. All they know is from the mantra of concerned parents and from blanket-statement studies. Speaking of which, are there any studies that go in-depth these days? Think about all the statements you've heard about studies in the past year. How many of them produced anything but broad blanket statements concerning something, and vague ones at that. Is there something wherein you need to pay them globs of money to find out what kind of people are at risk for X or exactly what figures lead them to Y conclusion? Maybe it's my analytical personality but I'd rather have some hard data rather than a hypothetical statement like... "The frequent (though unspecified frequency) use (though how is not specified) of video games may cause an increase (also not specified) in violent behavior (i.e. playing more video games)." Such statements don't cover who is at risk, why they're at risk, or what they can do to prevent risk and still play video games if at all. I've seen horoscopes less vague.
Thunderclone: ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE! ONE MAN ENTERS! TWO MEN LEAVE!
demuzio@senatedem.state.il.us
haw, rain hell boys.
Dr. Fredric Wertham got all up and at 'em because they were full of "communist thinking, sex, and violence"...scratch the communist thing (SO last century...right?), and it sounds VERY similar to people's problems with video games. ;)