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Poor Man's Kinesis Keyboard: The K'nexis Keyboard
Jon_Aquino writes "For programmers like me with wrist pain (the dreaded Emacs Pinky syndrome), I have made a simple keyboard modification that lets you press the Ctrl, Alt, and Shift keys with your thumbs. Just like those expensive $240 Kinesis keyboards, but made using a $30 K'nex building toy. (K'nex is like Lego but uses rods instead of bricks)."
and put it on top.
You take a block from the middle and put it on top.
ooops. Soory. wrong permanently embedded jingle.
The truth about Led Zep should never be told on
I can press all three keys with 1 hand, so why do I need some device to do it?
I like muppets.
If he had simply used vi, none of this would have been necessary.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Seriously, if your tool gives you that serious problems it's time to use another one.
I am trolling
I think you could probably build the same contraption with lego using the rods, etc. Might be easier to get...I have never heard of K'nex.
Knex is more like the old Erector Set toys, not like Legos.
Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
man: no entry for woman in the manual.
"Qua!?"
I use the the 'ball' at the base of my pinky to press the ctrl-key. Leaves the pinky free for all the keys it was intended for: the q, a and z as well as capslock,tab and shift.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
Brilliant! Brilliant!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
by running emacs in vi mode.
It's so incredible, I can't believe anybody would pay for that sweet looking keyboard after seeing this.
Who would have thought double sided tape and pencils could be used to create an art piece so beautiful and so distinctivly geek ?
I most definately do not want pencils go across my keyboard just to get some half-assed ergo effect.
As a long time (5+ years) user of a Kinesis Keyboard I can tell you that it's the best keyboard I have ever used. It took me about a week to get used to the new layout (I stayed away from root shells) but once I did, I've never looked back. It's the most comfortable keyboard I've ever tried. I own one for home & one for work. Combined with the Evoluent mouse, my hands are much, much happier now.
"Jesus saves sinners...and redeems them for valuable coupons"
I looked at the article, and saw the photo's, but it hardly looks comfortable. Seems to me that you'd get in trouble every time you let your wrists down.
Seriously... how many of us have good piano skills and always keep our wrists up? Not me, thats what wrist rests are for...
No, I'm not going to give you a lecture on why Vi is better. But one editor rules them all.
Ed: your Lord and Master
Finally a Google image search (with safe search off) link that does not bring up any porn in the results!! Work Safe! YIPPEE!!!
Is there a USB version? Bluetooth? How is it with the Dvorak keyboard layout? I'm interested.
Transcend Humanity. Please.
A real geek would have built a mechanical keyboard with voice input to eliminate all that nasty keystroking altogether....
Points for effort, but come on, go all the way, the Rube Goldberg keyboard is the one that I want!!
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Are computer people really becoming the 90 lb weaklings that they're so often made out to be? I remember reading a Slashdot article about a 10lb notebook a few weeks ago, and everybody was screaming about them being "too heavy". And now, it's hard to use a keyboard? You gotta be kidding me. Are all geeks *really* that fat and pasty now? Honestly... I can't imagine a healthy person complaining about it being "hard" to press 3 buttons on a keyboard.
I thought you took care of ALT with your thumb already? :-}
and where is the windows Key solution '/me ducks' I can't believe he removed it for his shift key
my solution was even simplier, I just taped my 'pinky' finger to the one next to it (2nd from index) , that way, it puts less stress/stretch on your tendons in your wrists
do you have shinyfeet?
The cheaper it is, and fewer options the better.
:)
I would rather a 10 buck clickity clack than a 100$ wireless, usb, internet, media, programmable, glow in the dark, led indicators, blue tooth, ergonomic, natural, quiet, windows, etc...
So long as it interpretes typing. I am so sick of the varients. Wireless might be ok in some applications (media center for example), but is half this stuff ever needed or used.
The last two stupid ones I bought (they were the cheapest I coudl find in a pinch), were a media one and an Internet one.
They both sucked, half the time you would inadvertantly hit a button while doing something else. Let me tell you hitting the "internet" or "Media Player" button while playing a FPS online will make you curse.
It is also all the more screwy buttons my cat can walk over and activate. So the next morning I can see several dozen apps started, or the computer put into standby or shutdown.
Another positive with the cheapo keyboard is the ability to just toss it if you accidently spill crap on it.
I am really just writing this to see if I get first post...
So, compare this to the Microsoft natural. I assume this is better.
Transcend Humanity. Please.
Keyboard manufacturers are VI users...
Qwerty is a terrible choice, for English speakers. Dvorak is much better, and safer for your wrists. This will not solve the ctrl, etc. but it will preserve your wrists for years to come. Additionally, it is much faster, too.
I just wish pages for complicated mods had such detailed instructions with so many pictures. This one I think could have been described in a sentence or two.
not everything is a science experiment!
...the creation of "curb feelers".
/. come to when this is news?
What the fuck has
Yes, there is a USB version. The only bluetooth prototype fell in the toilet so it will be awhile before that is available. Dvorak is integrated on all of them.
Transcend Humanity. Please.
I bought a Kinesis split bowl keyboard five years ago and haven't looked back since. It's still in use, and as sturdy as ever. While the article in question may offer a cheaper alternative, frankly I consider the ~$300 I spent on that keyboard worth every penny. It saved me from countless hours of finger and wrist pain while keeping me on the job when I might have been further injured. $300 is chump change compared to a career. I'd still gladly recommend the Kinesis, especially if you're beginning to feel keyboarding pain after a days work. --M
2. Put a mapping from Caps Lock to Left Control
3. Use new capslock instead
4. No more Emacs wanky or whatever you said.
You won't remember life before this change. And no having to use vi ;)
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
hey, he says 'emacs, emacs, emacs is the greatest editor', and then he shows up the display with --- God forbid --- XEmacs.
Bloody hypocrite.
I must know, and I seriously do not have any idea what "vi" is.
Nice to see the editors check what they link to. The wiki article has "well damn nigga" at the end of it... nice to see we keep racist bullshit off the site.
I like muppets.
http://cmdrtaco.net/
and it sucks
If you're having THAT much trouble, just remap your keys on your keyboard. Geez. Or, tell Emacs to substitute another key for the control key, or whatever. I'm sure there's better ways to do this, other than taping children's toys to your keyboard.
:)
Or you can just download Vi
"This eliminates the physical pain, but it does add financial pain: $240 US -- double that if you need one for home and one for work."
Beware of endorsements from people who say "I've never looked back." There is no surer sign of fanatical devotion to a particular technology than that phrase. You will usually find "I've never looked back" after an anecdote justifying said fanatics use of the technology and especially their decisions to purchase fringe technology for relatively high prices. Ironically, "I've never looked back" is offered to endorse the fanatics chosen poster gadget, yet the phrase, if evaluated honestly, clearly says more about the purchasers fanaticism than it does the quality of the gadget. Indeed, the rational consumer always looks back and re-evaluates purchases, technological trends, long-term quality and alternatives that have come on to the scene; the fanatic, on the other hand, clings to his decions against all evidence and data. Please, if you see or hear "I've never looked back", run away from the source as fast as you can, and do not look back. Thank You.
XML causes global warming.
This reminds me of Marathon Pinky--the game used control as the run modifier. It never made my wrist hurt, but it made it hard to bend my pinky halfway.
English is easier said than done.
The poster noted that he has tried the alternatives, including "natural keyboards".
There is nothing wrong with "not looking back". I haven't looked back one moment since my elective castration.
Transcend Humanity. Please.
...as to why the author doesn't just swap caps and control like every Emacs power user does. It's no pinky strain at all to hit the caps lock key. This is just part of being a geek - you have to learn how to optimize your keyboard layout, or your hands are doomed.
For the various vi acolytes who suggested he switch to vi, I would like to point out that switching to vi would be a better option if only the escape key on most modern keyboards weren't so far off the home row that you have to pick up and move to hit it.
www.handeykey.com
I had the alphabet memorized in an evening. No more wrist pain, and my fingers are much happier. Also, this thing as great firmware making reprogramming virutally any keymap simple.
Someone did a study comparing chording keyboards to multi-tap (cell phones). They found multi-tap peaked out around 20 words per minute, while the newbie subjects under study were still improving at 40 words per minute on the Twiddler.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:oxaUmtTL9DUJ: c2.com/cgi/wiki%3FEmacsPinky+EmacsPinky&hl=en
Sense the original link to the definition of Emacs is already down...
note xt
I would say more like Tinker Toys...a lot more.
I'm not seeing it. Or am I just blind? :-p
Real men use Nano!
Signature.
I can't see how this is ergonomically better than his current keyboard or up
to par with the $230 one.
Probably he will end up crippled all for the want of being a cheap-ass. Such is
the hippy FLOSS way, right?
I really don't like how it assumes that one hits the space bar with the right hand. I'm left-handed, and I use the left thumb 99% of the time to hit the space bar. It seems like a nice idea, but it makes too many assumptions.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I use a foot pedal mapped to ctrl when I'm doing heavy editing in emacs. It was surprisingly easy to adapt to. The only downside - it can get a little squeaky.
one of the problems a lot of people have with key combo's is the control key... that is if you're using a pc keyboard as opposed to a unix keyboard where the control key is located with the caps lock button is..
.... but with the capslock acting as cntrl it's much easier and damned easy.. and all those bloody emacs key combos make sense now..
I've use pckeyboards everywhere, so i'm stuck with the control key at the bottom left and right hand sides... it's sooo bloody awkward to press alt-cntrl-key
Should've done this 15 years ago, bloody acer keyboard is almost dead.
Lemme guess: The K'nexis Made For Windows (TM) has delete instead of shift?
CPS will arrise from not moving your hands during repetitive motions. Making it all accessible now without moving is a dumb idea that'll save a few minutes a week but only cause more discomfort in the long run.
For those looking to try an easier-on-the-fingers & thumbs keyboard: http://www.typematrix.com/ Dvorak & QWERTY layout. Spacebar and such is moved from the thumb position to the center- separating the hands.
Why not Legos? http://www.freewebs.com/legodude522/computersmods. htm
Because I have low karma, I need pills.
More about my keyboards and how I've modified them here: http://wiki.playagaingames.com/tiki-index.php?page =Dvorak+Keyboarding
It's ugly, it's stupid, and it's not practical. You hit the trifecta.
word.
"Here I am doing a Ctrl-Alt-Delete."
I'm diggin' the log-in play-by-play, dude - thanks.
Kinesis probably takes $10 to manufacture, maybe even less. Do you people know of any garage/boat made copycats that are sold for $20? $240 is outrageous.
Kinesis makes a good product but there's not much to like about the company.
They patented their design almost 15 years ago. That's a smart business move on their part, but it creates the functional equivalent of a monopoly and the company behaves like one, maintaining monopoly profits and resisting even the tiniest amount of innovation
Re pricing, consder: the price of a Kinesis contoured keyboard has remained virtually constant for 10 years. Displays, mice, RAM, hard drives, etc etc have all fallen in price as costs of production have fallen because there are many sellers selling fungible products. But the price of a Kinesis keyboard never bore any relation to the costs of its production. Ten years ago one could spend $5K on a beast of a PC and $325 on a Kinesis keyboard. Now, or in the near future, you could buy a new PC that's far better than that beast from the past and pay less than $325 for it. But you'll still pay $325 for your kinesis keyboard. The difference is, there's a single seller and a patent that prevents anyone else from selling a fungible product.
Re innovation, consider: Kinesis didn't offer a USB model until 2002. It's now mid 2005, and they don't offer a wireless model. Monopolies resist innovation because they are under little or no market pressure to innovate. IMHO that's a shoe that fits. It would have been trivial and cheap to put a USB port on a $325 keyboard. But Kensis felt no market pressure, and hence saw no need. Same thing today. No one else can legally sell a wireless contoured keyboard, so Kinesis feels no market pressure and hence sees no need.
I'd be surprised if Kinesis had more than one full time (working five full days a week) employee. There wouldn't be anything for a second full time employee to do. The company's on autopilot. They have a patent, a product and a price. They've been sitting pat for 10 years and will be sitting pat another 10 years from now.
The MS Natural is a good keyboard. That is the first thing I would try if you have RSI problems.
For me, though, the Natural wasn't quite good enough: my tendonitis almost went away, then came back with a vengeance after a few months.
About four years ago I got a Kinesis (with some nervousness, given the price) and my forearms have thanked me every day since.
I think some peoples' bodies are just naturally more prone to RSI problems, though, since I've had co-workers 10 years older than I, with absolutely horrible ergonomic style, who have no problems whatsoever. I think most people will be fine with a MS Natural, but if you're not, give the Kinesis a try.
to use telekinesis. No assembly required!
I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE WITH I JUST LEAVE CAPS LOCK ON ALL THE TIME AND IT WORKS FINE FOR ME I ALSO DONT USE PUNCTUATION ANYMORE
GOD I DO HATE THIS FUCKING FILTER THOUGH IT GIVES ME PROBLEMS SOMETIMES
Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention. Obnoxious filter circumvention.
I don't know what it is called, but my boss has this keyboard with two "leaves" that fold up vertically - so the keys are on two vertical planes, one for each hand, and your hands are held with the palms vertical, facing one another. You can't see the keyboard, so it takes some getting use to.
The physiological rationale for this wierd keyboard is that your palms must be vertical; otherwise, the two bones in your forearm are twisted, and this twisting, which occurs with any flat or flatish keyboard, is what leads to problems.
On the otherhand, in this thread, many power users say they are happy with the flatish kinesis keyboard, so who know.
A much easier (software) modification I've made is to remap capslock to control.
-ashot
Ghetto.
I can't figure out if you're joking. Sure, you need to switch thumbs, but you also have to learn how to use each thumb to hit enter, backspace, delete, home, end, pageup, pagedown. ctrl, command, and option. The punctuation keys are also shuffled.
With that much changing, the question of preserving which thumb you traditionally use to space is ludicrous. This is not a left handed/right handed issue.
However, if you really couldn't handle learning that one key after you've become used to hitting enter with your thumb, you can use the hardware remapping to switch the spacebar and backspace keys permanently. The kinesis keycaps are designed for this sort of thing. It comes with a tool to pop them off so you can move them to reflect the way your keyboard is mapped.
I don't know: I just do it!
Reading this thread is making my wrists hurt like a mofo. gah.
STOP TALKING ABOUT WRIST PAIN!
I suppose I could just command+w this window and move on to reading something that won't give me sympathy pains.
How much to you spend on a monitor? How much do you spend on RAM, HD's, Video Cards? Why is $30 the limit people will spend on a keyboard? Especially when you have wrist pain and your job requires you to type all day long? Anyway, I just want to give credit to the Kinesis keyboard. I bought a used Kinesis keyboard a few years ago when typing all day was getting really painful. I could work (programmer) for about 20min before having to take a break. The Kinesis lets me go all day. So, I take every chance I can to spread the good news that this keybord kicks RSI in the balls.
I used to do something like this with xmodmap. I shifted the keyboard up a row (numbers and punctuation above numbers was accessed by modeshift), used the space bar for control, c for modeshift, v for backspace/delete, b for alt, n for space and m for shift. I basically stopped because I had a dual-boot setup with windows and couldn't do the same remapping. Although I'm a touch-typist, the misplaced letters threw me off. I know this option isn't available for the author of the article, being a windows user, but it was a nice keyboard layout.
Having an apple keyboard (thrift store, $5) helped. All key caps of the same size are exactly the same shape--tilt is controlled by the backplane of the keyboard itself.
That is just about the dumbest thing I've ever seen.
Far out, /. seems to be running for the "Our site is in the running for stupid posts" award.
So what if Kinesis has a patent? No one else has felt the need or desire to license that technology from Kinesis. Most keyboard producers and keyboard users have felt that normal keyboards and Microsoft Natural style keyboards are "good enough". Kinesis keyboards remain a niche product. But it's not a monopoly since there are alternatives that are good enough for most people.
My other first post is car post.
Emacs vs. Vi arguments are pointless
Notepad is best
(/ducks)
That explanation of what K'nex are at the end was totally unnecessary and even insulting. (you insensitive clod!) What kind of self-respecting /.er doesn't know what K'nex are!!!
I am Spartacus
Kinesis works for me, 11 years now. Details at
http://sepwww.stanford.edu/sep/jon/sorehand.html
I use vim.
I don't think I stretch my pinkies much for hitting ctrl. I mean, I use them a little in Firefox (ctrl+tab, ctrl+shift+tab, ctrl+w, ctrl+t), but for my own key mappings for Fluxbox, and even for word-processing things like ctrl+a, I end up moving my whole hand and using my middle and ring fingers.
As a side note (which everyone else is saying), Vi uses the : for much of what Emacs uses ctrl for. : is immediately to the right of the right pinky, just slightly easier to hit than enter.
One more thing: I do finger-stretching exercises all the time, crack my knuckles and such, I use the Dvorak layout, and I rarely have any wrist of hand pain. This is to be expected; I'm 18. But then, I do get horrendous cramps when I try to write. With a pen.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
That is the point of patents, they get a monopoly for inventing something novel and investing in it. In a few years their patent will expire and microsoft, logitech, imation, etc can build the kinesis style keyboard and sell them for only $100.
As far as I'm concerned whoever invented this keyboard deserves to profit from it to enrich themselves or just feed their family, they invented something truly novel (I am a kinesis user, although my company paid for the keyboard, which is cheap compared to my medical insurance.)
I used to be an AutoCAD professional, and their command-line syntax interpreted a space as and "enter".
...
L (spacebar)
(click)
(click)
(spacebar) (to finish command)
BOY that was the way to whip off commands by using both thumbs as enter keys. When my pinky started to get sore hitting "enter" on a particulary stiff keyboard, I investigated adding a second spacebar under the 1st to be my "enter".
I didn't have the electronics skills then that I do now, but I'm sure glad to see that somebody else also recognizes the surprising (!) utility of these opposable thumbs...
Xkeycaps allows to remap keys easily, so you can get a Lisp friendly layout.
Nothing to add to the Subject question. Inquiring mind wonders.
Swapping these isn't the answer. The real problem is the uselessly huge spacebar that takes up all that room at the bottom of most keyboards.
I've remapped my iBook to swap Command and Control keys (and changed the little Enter key on the bottom right to an alt). Now the keys are, moving from the centre outwards, Ctrl, Meta, Alt (in emacs speak). Typing C-x-f (= right-thumb, left-ring, left-index) suddenly makes sense.
Now I need an external keyboard without an obnoxiously large space-bar...
In soviet russia, vi users are keyboard manufacturers :)
The best planning can be done after the project completes.
I know it's actually more expensive than the Kinexis keyboard (which I have never heard of), but does anyone else use a keyboard from Fingerworks? It acts a lot like a mechanical keyboard, but requires no force and allows for gesture support on the keyboard which is light-years beyond those pitiful mouse gestures supported by a few applications.
My ctrl key is on a home position (specifically, where QWERTY puts the semicolon (so my semicolon is where QWERTY puts left bracket and brace (which I've moved to where the Windows/Meta keys usually are (and relocated those to the function-key row (yes, I know a little lisp (why do you ask?)))))). My shift key is also on a home position (where QWERTY puts A (so I put A where QWERTY puts K, and K where QWERTY puts left shift (there is also a ctrl key in the usual place, for those situations where my fingers aren't on the home positions))). My pinkies don't hurt any more.
I'm using an Avant Stellar, but I think any remappable keyboard could do this stuff, and it _might_ even be achievable softwarily, in much the same way as people change their input methods to Dvorak or whatever.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
This has to be the worst mod I have ever seen! I would be so annoyed by this that I would end up ripping off the K'nex sticks and start stabbing my computer with them.
I've been using my Kinesis for 7 years now (on the nose, even) and I must say it's more than just the thumbs for 3 keys that make it so helpful. It's also bs/del, space/enter and the pits. I can't say enough about it being pitted.
And it's well worth the money. I've only had one problem, esc/F-keys are on a separate, and as of when mine was made, slightly more flimsy connection. But after I broke the escape key (vim user), and got tired of using a remapped capslock, I got mine fixed, for a reasonable price, and haven't looked back.