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Voice Actors Vote on VG Strike

Posted by Zonk on from the they-want-money dept.

The Screen Actor's Guild and the American Federation of Television & Radio Artists will vote today on whether or not to strike against publishers in the video game industry. The actors claim they are not getting a fair piece of the pie in the ever increasingly lucrative industry. From the article: "Voice actors say they are not sharing in the riches of the $10-billion-a-year industry. But game publishers say voice actors are just part of a increasingly costly and complex development process in which a typical game costs $5 million or more and several times that for blockbusters."

95 of 115 comments (clear)

  1. Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    with all the regulars on strike, maybe they can hire some people capable of showing emotion. That is to say that there those that don't suck, like those in the Legacy of Kain series. If the striking VG voice actors put half as much emotion into their work at they put into their complaining, i wouldn't be so ticked off at them.

    1. Re:Good! by decibel-x · · Score: 1

      I'd have to agree. These voice jockeys are a joke 90% of the time. Video game voiceovers are traditionally very bad (Resident Evil comes to mind).

      Some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard in a game came from the guy who plays the hero IN THE FILM. (Spiderman 2 [PS2]).

      Watch video game companies go back to having their lead programmers or artists voice characters (i.e. Blizzard guys on the early WarCraft series). More often than not, these guys have passion about their work which translates well into their voice acting.

      --
      -=.::X=-
  2. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by kc32 · · Score: 1

    Everbody in Hollywood is greedy. Or they're trying to get as much extra money as they can before the **AA screws THEM over too. Just my $0.02.

  3. I hope they strike by yotto · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I hope they strike and the video game houses hire "scabs" who've been trying to get voice acting jobs for decent wages.

    --
    Pulp Audio Weekly - Geek News and Reviews
  4. What about.... by flink · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...the artists, coders, and designers whose work makes up the game? Why do they deserve royalties any less than a voice actor?

    1. Re:What about.... by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because they're not willing to quit en masse and tell the publisher "pay us more or else no game"?

      "Then the publishers will hire scabs!"

      Yes - and how long will it take for the "scabs" to get up to snuff and be able to handle all of the tasks of the former programers/artists/testers? What if every employee at EA and Ubisoft all left the same day and said "We'll come back when we're offered a 40 hour work week with overtime of 1.5x an hour over 40 hours and 2x every hour past 60 hours, with paid vacation time between games and a independent mediator for disputes", and the publishers were left looking at their bankroll and deciding if just going scabs are worth it?

      The voice actors deserve it not because they're better, but because they're willing to fight and sacrifice what they want *now* for a better deal *later*. It's the way the entertainment industry rose up with the screen actor's guild and the like - and I think the game industry is about to get hit with it big time, and they won't like it.

      --
      52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
    2. Re:What about.... by badasscat · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...the artists, coders, and designers whose work makes up the game? Why do they deserve royalties any less than a voice actor?

      Because they're salaried employees, not contract talent. Their salary is their royalty.

      You could say the same about every industry. Why don't GM employees get a cut of the profits for every car sold? Why don't textile workers get a cut of every shirt sold? Why don't McDonalds employees get a penny for every burger they sell?

      The fact is they do. It's called a weekly paycheck - where do you think payroll money comes from? Voice actors, like other project-based talent, are instead paid based on a work-for-hire contract - as it stands now, they're paid only once, regardless of whether a game sells a million copies or a thousand. (This in contrast to a salaried employee, who - theoretically - would see a raise or other increase in benefits if the company is doing well.)

      Royalties are intended to fairly compensate non-salaried employees for work they have done, in proportion to the amount of sales their work is bringing in.

      You can argue whether or not voice actors deserve this (my opinion is they don't - nobody buys a game because Samuel L. Jackson does one of the voices, they buy the game because it's fun), but you should at least understand the differences between the concept of contract royalties vs. the concept of continuous employment.

      I would honestly hope that if voice actors make good on their strike threat, that game developers will simply go back to making good games that aren't so reliant on "Hollywood production values". Pac-Man didn't have Tom Cruise doing the voice acting and that game has endured for more than 25 years. More recently, a game like Katamari Damacy had no big name actors at all (in fact, it had no understandable language in it whatsoever) and it was one of the biggest hits of last year. The game industry is the game industry - it is not the film industry, and it would actually be nice if everybody involved would learn the difference between the two mediums at some point.

    3. Re:What about.... by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "...the artists, coders, and designers whose work makes up the game? Why do they deserve royalties any less than a voice actor?"

      Because the artists, coders, and designers aren't striking over it?

      We're not even unionized, sadly. Which is why EA got away with its overtime bullshit.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    4. Re:What about.... by coaxial · · Score: 2, Informative

      More recently, a game like Katamari Damacy had no big name actors at all (in fact, it had no understandable language in it whatsoever) and it was one of the biggest hits of last year.

      Actually Katamari Damacy does have voice actors for the end-of-stage and cut scenes.

    5. Re:What about.... by wilbz · · Score: 1
      Royalties are intended to fairly compensate non-salaried employees for work they have done, in proportion to the amount of sales their work is bringing in.
      There's one key factor that you're leaving out here. Voice actors are paid at a prohibitively high rate (IIRC sometimes more than $400 an hour) for their work. To me that seems more than fair compensation for the small amount of work they actually have to do. Until you can provide me an example where anyone actually bought a game because of the voice actors involved (the names of the actors, not the actual quality of work), I will continue to believe that their pay rate is more than fair and that asking for royalties is entirely unjustified.
    6. Re:What about.... by BaudKarma · · Score: 1

      So a gaming company could just hire a few voice actors, put them on salary, and not have to worry about this royalty crap? That might make sense for a large gaming company. Of course, I'm sure the union would have a problem with that, too.

      And on the flip side, what about temp employees who are only brought on board to work on a certain project. They know that when the game goes gold, they'll be released. Since they're not salaried, shouldn't they be entitled to royalties?

      --
      It's the land of the brave, and the home of the free
      Where the less you know, the better off you'll be.
    7. Re:What about.... by 88NoSoup4U88 · · Score: 1
      You owe me a new keyboard ! ;)

      I just splashed most of my coffee over it reading :
      Pac-Man didn't have Tom Cruise doing the voice acting and that game has endured for more than 25 years.

    8. Re:What about.... by coaxial · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because they're salaried employees, not contract talent. Their salary is their royalty.

      You could say the same about every industry. Why don't GM employees get a cut of the profits for every car sold? Why don't textile workers get a cut of every shirt sold? Why don't McDonalds employees get a penny for every burger they sell?

      The fact is they do. It's called a weekly paycheck - where do you think payroll money comes from? Voice actors, like other project-based talent, are instead paid based on a work-for-hire contract - as it stands now, they're paid only once, regardless of whether a game sells a million copies or a thousand. (This in contrast to a salaried employee, who - theoretically - would see a raise or other increase in benefits if the company is doing well.)

      Royalties are intended to fairly compensate non-salaried employees for work they have done, in proportion to the amount of sales their work is bringing in.

      Let me counter your argument, by pointing out that royalties don't just compensate for an intermitent paycheck but actual provide profit sharing. Profit sharing already occurs with salaried employess in several industries. Most often profit sharing occurs via stock options or stock grants (especially with dividend producting stocks), but in some cases through direct profit sharing.

      Profit sharing ensures employees benefit from a successful company. Under a profit sharing plan, the employees directly benefit (as opposed to the current situation where they benefit indirectly) from successful products. This inturn encourages employees to meet deadlines, lower costs, and increase the overall quality of product. Stock option plans attempt to do this, but under option regimes the responsibility (i.e. "ownership") of the product's success is diluted through executive decisions. The are some problems with the current stock option regimes. Perhaps direct revenue sharing could counter these problems, and result in happier, more dedicated, and more productive employees.

    9. Re:What about.... by unitron · · Score: 1
      "Pac-Man didn't have Tom Cruise doing the voice acting..."

      Yes they did. That's what he sounded like before puberty.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    10. Re:What about.... by Psykechan · · Score: 1

      I feel it. I feel the bad voice acting.

  5. NO by nomadic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article:

    If a strike occurs, game players probably won't notice much of a difference, GamePro editor Sid Shuman says. "I think if you asked gamers what is more important, recognizable voices or prices not climbing higher, they are going to opt for lower prices."

    He's completely and utterly wrong. I personally don't care about recognizing the voices, but I do NOT want to go back to the early days of PC games that used voices. They tended to sound as if the programmers or the programmers' friends did the voices themselves, and they were horrible. This Shuman guy doesn't know what he's talking about; even losing the rank and file guys is going to hurt games.

    On a side note:
    Union actors lent voices to nine of 10 of last year's top video games, Oster says. That includes Halo 2, with Michelle Rodriguez, David Cross and Ron Perlman

    Halo 2 had an insane amount of relatively well-known actors, even in minor roles. In addition to the eminently hot Michelle Rodriquez and the others listed above they had Miguel Ferrer, Robert Davi, and Orlando Jones. Never figured out WHY, did they like have a huge voice actor budget that they just had to use no matter what?

    1. Re:NO by eht · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And yet Blizzard who seems to constantly produce high quality games (or at least massively selling ones) uses no professional voice talent, Bill Roper, one of their Senior Producers did a lot of voice acting for them.

      They commonly use their "programmers or the programmers' friends" and do so quite well.

    2. Re:NO by Loco3KGT · · Score: 1

      wow.. way to claim he doesn't know anything and then cite Ron Perlman and Michelle Rodriguez as talent.

      And, BTW, no, she isn't hot.

      --
      Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
    3. Re:NO by brkello · · Score: 1

      He's completely and utterly wrong.

      No, you disagree with his statement. It is probably true that most gamers care about cheaper games than paying more for over-priced names doing the voices. Even if they are big name voices, doesn't mean they are great voice actors. There are plenty of great voice actors out there that aren't big names that they can bring in. Or, they can do it without voice actors. I could care less about these guys. I'll buy games based on type and how it is reviewed, the last thing that would make a decision for me is if so and so voice actor was in it. It isn't like a movie.

      And as far as your sig goes, way to be a dick! What does being rich have anything to do with being smart. I know complete dumb asses who have a lot of money. Maybe some people are smart enough to know that tons of money doesn't guarantee happiness.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    4. Re:NO by nomadic · · Score: 1

      No, you disagree with his statement.

      Oh god, not this idiocy. Of course I damn well disagree with his statement, that's why I said it was wrong. If you're complaining because I don't preface every goddamn statement I make with "It is my OPINION that" then you're going to have to live with it.

      I could care less about these guys. I'll buy games based on type and how it is reviewed, the last thing that would make a decision for me is if so and so voice actor was in it. It isn't like a movie.

      I don't care who they get for the voice actors, as long as they're competent. And most people aren't competent to do it.

      And as far as your sig goes, way to be a dick! What does being rich have anything to do with being smart. I know complete dumb asses who have a lot of money. Maybe some people are smart enough to know that tons of money doesn't guarantee happiness.

      I put it in to annoy goddamn libertarian/objectivist/whatever the hell they are slashdotters who, when the subject comes up, whine that poverty only exists because people are lazy.

    5. Re:NO by nomadic · · Score: 1

      And yet Blizzard who seems to constantly produce high quality games (or at least massively selling ones) uses no professional voice talent

      That's just wrong. Blizzard uses professional voice actors. Look up their games on imdb, while some of the voices are done by Blizzard employees plenty are done by professional actors or voice actors. In fact, the more lines they have the more likely it is that a character is voiced by a professional.

    6. Re:NO by nomadic · · Score: 1

      Where did I say "talent"? I simply referred to them as relatively well-known actors, and considering both have headlined major movies I think that's accurate. And they're also both relatively well-regarded in terms of acting ability anyway.

      And yes she is hot.

  6. Pong by RasendeRutje · · Score: 4, Funny

    I was a voice actor on the first Pong game. You think I've ever received a penny? Nah...

    --

    If Microsoft was mass, stupidity would be gravity.
    1. Re:Pong by parliboy · · Score: 1

      So were you "beep" or "boop"?

      --
      "You're never ready, just less unprepared."
  7. Why do actors deserve special treatment? by dtolman · · Score: 2, Insightful
    While voice acting can be an important element of games - they can't compare their roles in games to movie's, radio, or television. Video games are a completely new paradigm - expecting treatment different than other creative artists in the games is ridiculous.

    Actors need to realize that their contribution in a game is one element out of many - the developers and designers do just as much creatively as they do!

    1. Re:Why do actors deserve special treatment? by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 1

      Then the developers and designers should be paid more, and if their talents are indeed special (such as art design, etc) perhaps they should be paid residuals.

      Instead of knocking everybody down to one level, how about we raise the special up?

      --
      52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
    2. Re:Why do actors deserve special treatment? by mconeone · · Score: 1

      Because there is a swarm of programmers willing to do the same thing for not-so-much money.

    3. Re:Why do actors deserve special treatment? by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 1

      So therefore there is a reason why voice actors get paid more: they have a special talent that is difficult to find.

      Or, it's because they're willing to band together en masse and refuse to work without what they consider to be their fair pay. Makes you wonder what would happen if game developers - all of them - decided not to work unless they got fair working conditions too?

      Seems like something like this happened once before. Hm....

      --
      52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
    4. Re:Why do actors deserve special treatment? by Stoutlimb · · Score: 1

      I think collectively what is happening in the programming and IT community as a whole is that corporations are realizing just how far they can push their IT staff. Since they're willing to take the abuse, the workplace is getting abusive. I expect this to continue until people stop working.

      Bork!

    5. Re:Why do actors deserve special treatment? by neonfrog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because they have a union (darn, can't link to Wikipedia as it is undergoing maintenance). Devs and designers might want to consider forming their own.

      I'm not necessarily pro-union, but SAG et al were started to protect those types of workers from slimeballs. As such, they get to wield muscle in these types of things. Every worker deserves protections or "special treatment", but in this unfair world they often don't get it unless they band together and demand it. Actors do not deserve it more than game devs, but the actors are organized enough to actually try to get some respect.

      In the professional TV/Film/Theatre industry many of the folk involved have their own union or are a part of IATSE. Game devs might someday get fed up enough and form their own.

      --

      I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.

  8. Deep Thought by 1967mustangman · · Score: 1

    In the words of the mighty Deep Thought... WHO WILL THAT INCONVENIENCE??

    --
    Madre de Dios! Es El Pollo Diablo! -- Captain Blondebeard
  9. For Those That Complain by RealityMogul · · Score: 1

    Which do you think is really worse, the voice acting, or the script writing?

    1. Re:For Those That Complain by N3Roaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The answer is yes. Also bad is when the acting comes out sounding Shatnerian not because the acting is bad but because the code playing the sound files is inserting pauses in unnatural places (presumably for the slow readers out there).

      I find that voices in games usually detract from the overall experience (I'm sure there are counter examples, but I haven't played them) or result in the game being inconsistent (why does this scene have voices but these other ones don't?). I really wouldn't mind if the vast majority of games stopped talking. When games started talking, the result was, "Cool! The characters in the game are talking!" That's worn off. If voice acting isn't going to be used effectively and beyond the dated cool factor, it should just be left out.

      --
      Remember RFC 873!
  10. Re:Normally I'm first to defend worker's rights, b by kc32 · · Score: 1

    The voice acting in GTA: San Andreas was awesome. (As much as I hated David Cross as Zero)

  11. For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know there will be those who simply say "Well, them let them go - they get overpaid for their $300 an hour work anyway", or "Voice acting in games sucks!" or "It's a free market!"

    To which I would respond "Yes, it's a free market - and they are free not to work unless they get the pay they demand."

    Electronic Arts makes multiple billions of dollars of profit (not revenue - profit) every year, while they treat programmer like dirt. Their response to the voice actors request is something like "But - we don't pay the programmers this much - what's your problem?"

    To which the voice actors, which come from a history of which using a guild (or a union, really) has gotten them what they want: pay for their work, and residuals for using their talents to promote someone else's product. As I wrote in a column not too long ago, it's a system that's served Hollywood well.

    And yes, with all of the unions about, Hollywood still makes a lot of money. A *ton* of money.

    Maybe this is the wakeup call that the game industry needs. Maybe EA and other publishers (sorry to pick on EA, but they're the most egregious example I know), if the voice actors get their way, will be faced with developers saying "Holy fucking shit - where's my piece of the pie then?.

    Maybe the big publishing houses will have to break up, or deal with lower profits - or maybe monkeys will fly out of my butt.

    Who knows. Personally, I'm rooting for the voice actors. Overpaid hams? Sure - but they're overpaid hams who know the value of their dollar, and are willing to sacrifice profits now to do better in the future. Maybe they'll lose. But it won't be because they just bend over a desk when the guy with the paycheck wants to ram it up their ass.

    Just my opinion. I could be wrong.

    --
    52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
    1. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by alvinrod · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If the existing talent wants to walk, I'd say let them. I've heard a lot of great voice acting in a few games, but in others it's been horrible. I don't think that a lot of the voice actors are well known Hollywood actors (GTA has used some big names, and David Hayter from MGS has become somewhat famous from the role of Snake) but there are a few.

      EA is making a lot of money by not paying the people who work there the money they deserve. I don't think that just the voice actors should revolt, but the programmers as well. Eventually EA is going to have to give in.

      However, given the fact that next generation games are expected to cost $60 per game, it looks like the big developing houses are going to push the cost on the consumers rather than absorb it themselves.

    2. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 1
      Hollywood is bullshit. Noone deserves to make 20,000,000 USD for 6 weeks of work. Fuck that shit. Really. I'd rather keep that sort of gross overvaluing of certain individuals out of other industries.

      --
      Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    3. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by Cthefuture · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not just the programmers, the game artists are in the same position. They sometimes get paid less than even the programmers. Without the game content there wouldn't be much of a game.

      However artists, much like voice actors, are a dime a dozen. The problem is that typically the end user doesn't give a crap how technically good the art and voice acting is, just as long as it's good enough. Pretty much anyone can tell if art or voice acting is good enough.

      On the other hand a programmer is a lot like an artist except it's not so easy to spot good talent (for one thing talent is less obvious when evaluating a programmer) and there are many crappy programmers out there because it's complex work and people rarely devote the time to practicing like other artists do. It's also rare to find someone that has the passion about their programming that traditional artists have about their art.

      --
      The ratio of people to cake is too big
    4. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by Walkiry · · Score: 1

      >"Yes, it's a free market - and they are free not to work unless they get the pay they demand."

      I sure hope so! Let them go, all of them, even the two-bit hacks who can't make a decent voice to save their lives. I really don't care if they're overpaid or not, and I don't have a grudge with any of them.

      Because, you know what I root for? Getting rid of voice acting entirely. It's unnecessary bloat and a waste of bytes, and if you're really hell-bent on it, a handful of one-liners over the course of a 40+ hour game can be done by almost anyone (see: Blizzard) because most people will switch them off afther the 100th time hearing the same damn thing. Getting completely rid of them and saving the cash sounds like a great idea. I never missed voice acting in World of Warcraft or City of Heroes, and there's a LOT of text-driven story in those games.

      --
      ---- Take the Space Quiz!
    5. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by analog_line · · Score: 1

      Maybe EA and other publishers (sorry to pick on EA, but they're the most egregious example I know), if the voice actors get their way, will be faced with developers saying "Holy fucking shit - where's my piece of the pie then?.

      No, they'll fire all the highly paid "western" programmers and hire them all in India and China to make back the money they're forced to give up to the voice actors.

    6. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by hal2814 · · Score: 1

      As long as they can talk millions of suckers into forking over $8 - $12 apiece to watch a movie then they deserve every single penny of that money. That's why entertainment makes money. The industry gets a relatively small amount of money from millions of people. If you can talk 1,000,000 people into giving you a dollar, you're a millionaire.

    7. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by brkello · · Score: 1

      I don't understand...if they are overpayed, then why is a "guy with the paycheck want[ing] to ram it up their ass"? This just seems like greed to me. They have every right to do it, I don't mind that. And I don't mind the game companies flipping them off and getting scabs or altering their game to just have text. This isn't a movie. People don't say, hey, David Duchoveny did the voice in this game, I am going to buy it! You can have favorite actors and they can take a role that they like, play it well, and you know there is a decent chance you might like the movie. With a voice actor? pssh..says nothing about the game at all. That is why I don't think they deserve anything. It is the programmers, directors, and music composers that are the stars of video games.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    8. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 1
      I wasn't talking about how much movies make, but rather about how 90% of that money goes into the hands of only a few people, rather than (a little) more evenly distributed to the people who put in long hours to make the movie. A director and a couple actors don't make a movie by themselves.

      --
      Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    9. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Parhaps that's the reason the next gen stuff looks so bad, most companies hired bad artists and now that highpoly/normalmapping requires much better artistic skills than game art before it that lack becomes obvious.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    10. Re:For those who would say "Let 'em go!" by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      Talent I don't know about, but as for the passion in game programmers; you'd have to be pretty passionate in your art (or just completely stupid) if you're willing to work in such bad working conditions whilst you could be making more money in good working conditions in the rest of the IT world.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  12. And I thought next gen games wouldn't cost enough. by Minced · · Score: 1

    Yes, with the addition of voice talent in video games + next gen games projected to cost $60 + $5 for random celeb to lend voice talent I'm sure pumped for next gen systems! I'm so sure they need MORE money. I mean if they lend their voice to a game I see it as free advertising, people will hear your voice and make an association between the character and the actor. If they want more money it make pull funds from other aspects of game creation, and who wants to be associated with a shitty game?

  13. voice actors == movie actors... by flabbergast · · Score: 2, Insightful

    while programmers == set builders. I'm assuming that's how SAG sees it.

    But, there's a crucial difference between a voice actor and a movie star. While a movie star can carry a movie, I don't know of any video game that a single voice actor carried. Yeah, Michael Ironside is great as Sam Fisher, but I didn't know he was the voice until I read it. No one buys Splinter Cell because of Michael Ironside: he only adds to the realism.

    Its for this reason that I think voice actors shouldn't get points for games. They don't carry games like they can carry movies. Until you can sell a million copies of a video game because Tom Cruise does a voiceover, voice actors shouldn't get points.

    As for Ironside stating "There needs to be a standard for the people who can't protect themselves, the rank-and-file performer" what a bunch of crap. Somehow I don't think anyone but A-list actors get points from movies.

    1. Re:voice actors == movie actors... by MrAndrews · · Score: 1

      Somehow I don't think anyone but A-list actors get points from movies.

      And that's the point, I think, they're getting stuck at. Without a Tom Cruise leading the movie, Michael Ironside gets shuffled up to "top billing" for the production, and therefore expects he deserves the same relative perks that Cruise would have gotten in a big-budget movie. And they do see the programmers as set builders or make-up artists, simply helping to execute the performance. But then the guild is only supposed to be concerned with the actors...

      This kind of thing has been going on in animation since forever. Animators execute the vast majority of the magic in any animated film, but they get crap wages next to the actors who come in for a few hours to record some audio. In most cases, the average Hollywood actor doesn't get points for their work in a Pixar movie, and they don't expect they will... but games are a new industry where they think they can "fix" the playing field for themselves, so they're giving it a shot.

      The real issue is that the programmers don't form a union and demand better treatment. Hell, they can probably team up with SAG or something and make it nigh impossible for EA to hire programmer scabs, or to offshore the work. That's why unions donate to politicians. It's just that most programmers find unions shady, so they're reluctant to try...

      The function of a union is to be angry and greedy on behalf of its members, at the expense of everyone else, because they expect everyone else has a union doing the same. Whether in the short term or the long term, a strike will change things for the games industry... it's just a question of how the programmers choose to react.

      --
      The world's only surviving livewriter.
  14. Fine strike by aztektum · · Score: 1

    Of all the voice acting in games these days, there is usually only a handful each year (if that) that have decent enough voice acting to not make one cringe anyway.

    Sure the next GTA game might be lacking without some of the celeb voices, but you'd be doing us a favor by keeping all your shitty, low rent voice actors away from all the other games that come out.

    *slight fanboy rant*
    If everyone took a queue from Nintendo and realized that to make good games you don't NEED a full voice cast this would be a non-issue.

    --
    :: aztek ::
    No sig for you!!
  15. Dear Big Game House, by dbretton · · Score: 4, Insightful


    I am not an experienced voice actor. However, I am fluent in English and have been speaking it my entire life.

    I have been recently made aware that you are having difficulty with the voice actors you have hired, and you may be in the market for prospective new talent.

    I am willing to work for one third the going hourly rate performing voice acting work, which I understand is $300/hr. Please reply.

    Kindest Regards,
    NonUnion Voice Actor

    1. Re:Dear Big Game House, by kc32 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Dear NonUnion Voice Actor,

      We regret to inform you that we have already filled the position you requested with 100 other people that have sent us this exact same e-mail.

      Kindest Regards,
      Big Game House

    2. Re:Dear Big Game House, by valintin · · Score: 1

      Hi ther, my name is Billy Bob Thernton you should have me do thet voice acter stuff because I em pertier than that Billy Bob Thornton and our names are one letter different so I'm only an O less famus than him.

  16. Are we talking about Episode 3? by JimTheta · · Score: 1

    Which do you think is really worse, the voice acting, or the script writing?

    A

    --
    My stupid web site
    1. Re:Are we talking about Episode 3? by JimTheta · · Score: 1

      (crap, ignore parent, somehow I accidentally hit submit before I was finished...)

      Which do you think is really worse, the voice acting, or the script writing?

      Are we talking about Episode 3?

      I learned from that movie that no matter how good an actor is, bad lines will make him look like a bad actor. I'm talking about Samuel L Jackson here.

      So, back to the topic, with game voice acting in the past, I'd say both can be equal contributors.

      --
      My stupid web site
  17. If only the programmers were this audacious by MBraynard · · Score: 1
    What do you think EA would be like if their workers organized like this?

    Put aside how retarded the SGA, etc. are for thinking their 'talents' are as of value in this realm as they are on the screen. Video games are not Shrek 2. Push comes to shove, devs can use the voice jobs as sex bait for chicks in bars.

    Programmers is far more valuable to the process - if they organized like this, they might not complain so much about EA (at least until they were outsourced).

    1. Re:If only the programmers were this audacious by dbretton · · Score: 1

      What do you think EA would be like if their workers organized like this?

      Headquartered in India?

  18. Where's my piece of the Pie? Customer Strike! by Alzheimers · · Score: 3, Funny

    Look, I do my duty as a good customer. I pay for your games. I honor brand loyalty over bad reviews. I'm willing to forgive the odd dropped feature now and then. In short, I do everything you've asked of me.

    And yet, I'm not getting the same value for my dollar any more. Oh, sure, the visuals are prettier, and the sound is amazing. But the games you're putting out these days, frankly, don't have any soul. It's as if you used the same voice actor for every character, and asked them to just grunt a little more for the guys voices and suck helium for the girls voices.

    Until I as a consumer get my fair share, I'm striking. No more broken and buggy games. No more repetitive and bland gameplay. And I want royalties, too -- free or inexpensive content for years after the release of your product.

    I do my part. It's time for the industry to meet me half way.

  19. Oh No! by blunte · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What ever would we do without "professional" voice actors. I'm certain that the only good voice actors are from Hollywood. It could be that there's plenty of talent all around the world, perhaps right in your town's theater.

    Unions are outdated. People who join unions are spineless whiners who cannot take a stand for themselves (at least in the US).

    Programmers who work for EA are spineless slaves.

    I'll be trolled down, but I don't care.

    If you don't like your freaking pay or your work conditions, STOP WORKING THERE!

    At least until the lawyers completely fuck up the game industry with game concept patents, there's a ton of room for small, independent game companies to create the next sleeper. Lord knows none of the big companies are creating anything worth buying. Every one of them has 80% eye candy that plays like shit.

    Go and do. Stop whining.

    --
    .sigs are for post^Hers.
    1. Re:Oh No! by Dark+Paladin · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Unions are outdated. People who join unions are spineless whiners who cannot take a stand for themselves (at least in the US).

      Programmers who work for EA are spineless slaves.

      I'll be trolled down, but I don't care.

      If you don't like your freaking pay or your work conditions, STOP WORKING THERE!


      I'm not sure if you realize how odd those two statements are together.

      Think about the idea of a union: it's sole purpose is to say "We, the people who provide a service, will not do any work as a group until our demands our met." It's about saying "We don't like our work conditions, so we refuse to work here."

      Only instead of just Bob one cubicle down quitting, which just means that Jane is hired instead at the same wage while Bob kicks the pavement and starves, it's Bob and Bill and Mary and Sally and Jane who doesn't even work there saying all at once "We don't like our work conditions, so we refuse to work here, and we're going to sit here outside and tell our fellow professionals not to work for you either until you meet our requests for a work condition."

      I'm trying to see how that's "not taking a stand for yourself". I don't state that all unions are good (often, like any other organization, they become grossly inefficient and corrupt), but as opposed to working 80 hours a week without overtime, hardly any vacation and the threat of "Don't like it? Then quit!", then a union can be a very effective means of telling your employer "I don't like the working conditions, so I quit."
      --
      52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
  20. Backfire by superultra · · Score: 1

    I have no doubt this will come back to bite current video game voice actors in the ass. They'll probably get their wish, but when the publishers have pay higher rates, they might start hiring other voice actors. You know, good ones.

    It's a shame, because I've loved some of these guys since their FMV days. Or something.

  21. zerg by Lord+Omlette · · Score: 1

    Solidarity!

    --
    [o]_O
  22. "Working class" my ass by __aamkky7574 · · Score: 1
    I don't want to repeat my blog posting, but as I say: at over 300 dollars per hour earnings, my sympathies for these people are limited.

    P.

    1. Re:"Working class" my ass by DeadMilkman · · Score: 1

      Why? Do you REALLY think they even get 10 hours of work most weeks? HA!

    2. Re:"Working class" my ass by __aamkky7574 · · Score: 1
      Well, if they get 10 hours a week, that's still over $3000. A week! A yearly salary of around $150,000. And that leaves them 25 hours a week to either:
      • do other work, or
      • take things easy and have a high quality of life
      Look, if they want a pay rise, fine by me; I have no arguments with people looking for a higher salary. But trying to argue that they and only they deserve an ongoing cut of any profits above and beyond anyone else involved in creating the game is ludicrous. And the mawkish attempt to tug on heart-strings by arguing they are on the same level as coal-miners and office cleaners is frankly just embarrassing and implies a level of self-absorption on their part that I, the son of an actual working-class man, can scarcely comprehend.

      P.

  23. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by HarvardFrankenstein · · Score: 4, Insightful
    These jokers remind me of those annoying liberal arts majors in college who constantly complained to their engineering friends about how hard their majors were. "Oh my God! You have no idea how difficult English Lit really is! Look at this book! It's got like a hundred pages, and I have to read them all! Ooh, and in Introductory Algebra, oh my God, the teacher started writing all these letters on the board instead of numbers, and I was all like 'Oh my God!'"

    Meanwhile, I was busy with three lab reports and studying for an exam, all on the same night, which, oh yeah, happened to be the same night that I was turning 21.

    Engineers > Actors -- Get in line, theater major.

  24. My 2cents by RogueLeaderX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I happen to be related to a guild actor who does work for Ubisoft. He's informed me that most of the voice talent the industry uses is non-union. In fact, many of the voices are programmers who get no bonuses or royalties for adding their voice. (This may explain many of the terrible voice overs.) My relative charges what he needs to make a living doing this, and, according to him, typically costs less than non-union talent. Why? Because he gets done in 1 hour what takes them 2 or 3. I'd work for dirt-cheap as a Linux admin, because I don't really know what I'm doing. I could FAQ my way around, but it'd take me 3-4x as long as an experienced professional. In the end, I'd cost more even though I get paid less. Is my uncle famous? Does his name help sell video games? I doubt it, but, did you like the voice acting for the moniter in HALO?

    1. Re:My 2cents by Jackie+Fiest · · Score: 1

      Well the vote was yesterday. Has anyone got word of the results yet? -- Jackie Fiest

      --
      -- Jackie Fiest
  25. Let me guess... by TuringTest · · Score: 1

    it was a one-liner?

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
    1. Re:Let me guess... by RasendeRutje · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I was having a ball!

      --

      If Microsoft was mass, stupidity would be gravity.
  26. They *should* get royalties. by EnglishTim · · Score: 1

    They should get royalties, just like everybody else who worked on the game, but the royalties should be proportional to the value they added to the game. The best way to do this would be to use a weighted sum of the hours spent working on it.

    As a few hours work by a voice artist produces a greater effect than a few hours work by a programmer, let's say that the voice artist gets ten times the hour-royalties of a programmer. That seems fair enough.

    Of course, this still won't result in much for the voice artist as it'll be their five hours ( x 10) versus at least 3000 for a programmer...

  27. So..? by fixmyship · · Score: 1

    When will we have a full text-to-speech game, then?

  28. How much?! by Retroneous · · Score: 1

    On a side point, how the HELL does it cost $5 million dollars to get a game together?

    Not to mention the multiple figure if its a "blockbuster"?

    How many artists, sound guys, coders, PR people, advertising etc does a game need? Maybe the industry needs to look at more cost-effective ways of getting the job done. Then, maybe they could pay some decent voice actors.

    This reminds me of the Alec Baldwin marionette in Team America...

    "Screw you, Hans Brix!"

    --
    My Mind Is Rewired. Is Yours?
    1. Re:How much?! by Slow+Smurf · · Score: 1

      A building, a few dozen(up to 100-200 people, at various points during development on the biggest games), computers, electricity. Oh and licence, that can cost them a depressingly large amount. It adds up fast, as currently they're working for a year or two.(more in some cases, HL2 for example) Why do movies cost a 100 million? All they do is make a picture that moves!

  29. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by Gulthek · · Score: 1

    It's got like a hundred pages, and I have to read them all!

    And analyze the critical themes and motifs in said work and produce a 25 page critical essay discussing their past and present, actual and intended social perception. Did the author intend this work as a critical allegory of social life, as it was widely interpreted? Has the work been re-interpreted in the present day, what social changes have occured to bring this change about, if any? (Note, an assignment this specific would only be in a lower level undergraduate course. In the higher levels you'd be expected to come up with your own method of analysis.)

    Give a brief ten page outline of the political ramifications to Chinese history if Zhu De had not met Zhou Enlai.

    Prior to 1945, which Chinese political group deserved the Mandate of Heaven?

    Analyze "The Black Cottage" by Robert Frost. Twenty pages.

    Draw a lighting schematic and cue designs for the upcoming stage production of "Noises Off".

    Belittling a field of study is silly. Unless you are making fun of mathematicians: "It's trivial, trivial!"

  30. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1, Funny

    Coming from a Philosophy major - TROLL. Just because our work is different, and requires a different skillset and different kinds of commitments, does not mean that it is easy. I imagine that you don't spend weeks picking apart ethical theories, and then trying to come up with a defense for the least implausable one, while applying it to real world concepts and tying in all the material you read at the same time. For 30 pages. All the while, balancing gen ed requirements that frankly, you're not particularly good at because it requires a different skillset from the one you've been honing.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  31. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    Any Good engineer, computer scientist or programmer can make up 30 pages of nonsense based on BS, we call it documentation based on lUser requirements. And picking apart theory, that is called evaluating lUser requirements.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  32. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    Obviously, you have no idea whatsoever of what we actually do in philosophy, or what it's for, so your opinion doesn't interest me much.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  33. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    Well you're a philosophy major, so you don't know what you do either. :) HAND Oh and I do know, In fact I detailed it above. Now you can continue to persist in your delusion that you do something else. Or you can practice saying "Would you like fries with that" while pondering the existence of fries and the meaning of like.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  34. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by coaxial · · Score: 1

    It sounds like your simply jealous that the actors have a better idea. Instead of saying, "No fair! You shouldn't do that because we don't do that!", you should be saying, "Shit! Why don't we do that?"

    The fault lies with ourselves.

  35. has it occured to them... by briancnorton · · Score: 1

    that the majority of voice acting in games absolutely stinks! I mean, with some notable exceptions, (GTA Vice City, Half-life, etc) people mock voice acting, and nintendo thinks that it's so bad they don't even put it in ANY of their games!

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  36. Oblig. Futurama by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    From a TV show with real voice acting talent:

    Sal: Welcomes aboard, scab.
    Bender: Great to be here!
    Sal: Come on. I'll introduces you to your scab co-workers you'll be scabbing with.

  37. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    Like I said, clearly you don't know what the Hell philosophy majors do. You've either taken no classes on philosophy, or one (which is worse.) So let me give you a little eye-opener as to why philosophy is useful.

    Innoculation: How many otherwise intelligent people do you know who have been duped into something completely, utterly stupid? An unsubstantiated belief that contradicts everything we know about science, for instance? Philosphy helps protect people from falling for these things by teaching the principals of logical, and fallacious, reasoning.

    Ethics: As the recent ethical failures of corporations such as Enron show, there's a dire need for a revaluation of ethics in the business world. While ethics can be thought of as a domain in theology, it's much more useful when it's addressed by philosophy. Philosophy can present ethics in a way that's satisfying to people with a multiplicity of beliefs, something ethics derived from theology is unlikely to do.

    Formal Logic: Not intellectual masturbation any moreso than mathematics.

    Communication Skills: Philosophy teaches students to communicate with their opposition effectively. it is a manner of forcing intellectual confrontations, which hones the argumentation and reasoning skills of both parties.

    Introspection: It shows the student how to critically evaluate himself in light of a variety of philosophical theories.

    Management Skills: As above, the ability to evaluate claims and communicate effectively is extremely valuable to an effective manager.

    Intellectual Freedom: Much like "Innoculation" above, one of the things philosophy can do is protect you from bad philosophy, and I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of that out there. Questions like "What is being?" can come to even the most dull of minds, and good philosophy gives you a way to answer it (In this case, I'd say it's a matter of malformed grammar.)

    WHY: I guess some people are just too stupid to ask the "Why" question, but I would have thought on slashdot, people would have a little more intellectual curiosity. Philosophy teaches you ways to answer a variety of "why" questions; "why"s in the humanities instead of sciences. Physics is a way of asking "why" about the natural world, and philosophy is a way of asking "why" about people. Why are people offended by swear words? Why do we look at good and evil the way we do? Why should drugs be legal, or illegal? These are philosophical questions.

    Before you spout off with some asinine prejudice, based on insufficient information, why don't you either do a little research or shut the Hell up?

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  38. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    I think that philosophy students question a lot more than you're giving them credit for. I know that the minute a prof says something controversial, five hands immediately go up. Maybe it's a product of going to a small private university with small classes - I don't know what it's like at a big school.

    I agree with you that philosophy majors should do something with their degree, and I think most of them actually do. Teaching is a very valuable profession, and apart from that, I think a lot of feilds can be benefited by study of philosophy, even when you don't see a direct effect. Philosophy teaches, as I've ennumerated above, a lot of useful skills. I'm sure there are many others that I'm simply to scatterbrained to recall.

    I don't know why you think I've been tricked into being a philosophy major, instead of wrestling with the material and deciding that further study of philosophy suited me better than any of the other majors I could have chosen. It seems like an extremely unfair accusation, and one that could be levelled at just about anyone without offering any evidence to back it up.

    One thing that a lot of people don't understand about philosophers (IME) is that philosophers revel in direct, pointed confrontation. I know I've alienated more than one person because I'm willing to fight for my opinions; I consistantly back them up and try to get others to do the same. Some people are offended by the challange that offers, and I admit it can be hard to let it go. If you think I'm totally wrong about something, I want to fight about it. I want to challange you, and I want you to challange me. I can't count the number of times I've changed my opinion/belief about something, because they offered a better argument. But until we argue, I don't know what you think, or how you back that up. I don't have the opportunity to decide if you're right, and I'm wrong. I don't know if I'm speaking only for myself here, but one of the big reasons I argue with people is to see if there's something about me that needs to be changed, not them.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  39. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    So Being a philosophy major is your excuse for being a Troll in Real life?

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  40. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    If that's what you call all intense discussion not instigated by yourself, then yes.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  41. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    Yes, I'm an obsessive narcissist because I pointed out that the original parent's post about liberal arts was not accurate. I'm sure that no one on /. would ever defend their pet interest against unwarranted and inaccurate attacks. I've never once seen anyone point out a flaw in an anti-Linux argument, nor have I ever seen a flamewar erupt over an anti-Firefox post.

    Brave Mr. Anonymous Coward, why don't I ever see you attacking them over defending their hobbies and interests?

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  42. Seeing as you asked by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    The Monitor irritated the hell out of me! It was probably supposed to be annoying though, so the voice acting was probably good :)

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  43. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, with a Born on date of Yesterday(account ID 805501) Of course you haven't seen the flaws of linux pointed out or the Firefox Flamewars. that was before your time. But they will return given time. You too will discover that Slashdot is not a monolithic Linux beast, but has Liberals(classic and otherwise) and conservatives(Fiscal and otherwise) Democrats, republicans and Libertarians. There are Linux Gurus and Windows Gods and When The flames fly your Vain Philosophies will not be enough you will have to be able to grok kernals and microcode.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  44. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by czarangelus · · Score: 1

    600k calling 800k a newborn babe. That's rich. I guess you've got nothing, as far as responding to anything I've said is concerned. You're just a dim troll with nothing better to do than try to wind people up. Maybe you're so used to having people making fun of you that you can't manage to do anything but talk in kind, ne? Well maybe one day you'll grow the fuck up and realize that a world with nothing but electrical engineers would be as boring as a world with nothing but philosophers. You've got the distinction of being the first on my foes list, and kindly go sit on a dick.

    Feel free to post something stupid in response to this, but as far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over.

    --
    When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him.
  45. Re:Crappy game voice acting by mrbooze · · Score: 1

    In my experience, 9 times out of 10 when a game has horrible crappy voice acting, it's because they specifically did *not* hire professional voice actors, but instead got developers or friends or random people on the street to do it.

    Does no one else remember the horrifying voice of Richard Garriot as Lord British in Ultima VII?

  46. Re:Crappy game voice acting by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 1
    Does no one else remember the horrifying voice of Richard Garriot as Lord British in Ultima VII?

    Not particularly, but I do think back in horror to the voice of the French git in Ultima IX.

  47. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    Wow, a newborn babe claiming he has no need for milk

    And with an empty foes list..

    And I made your list...

    WOW!!! Can I get your newsletter too?

    Maybe one day you'll grow up and learn that a world without Philosophers wouldn't even notice, but a world without Electronic Engineers wouldn't have Slashdot, or computers or...

    Oh, and there was never any conversation. It was all in your mind. I identified you as a troll immediately and being bored decided to toy with you.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  48. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    He'd be a technical writer and be responsible for producing a Requirement Specification and a Design document that somewhat related to the reality of the product.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  49. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by stanmann · · Score: 1

    Wow, I'm jealous. Most technical writing I've seen bordered on fantasy, and all of it was fiction.

    --
    Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
  50. Re:F*ck The Voice Actors! by GJSchaller · · Score: 1

    That's what all my Fraternity Brothers said when I was doing costuming, and they were doing Mat Sci labs. Mockery the whole way.

    Guess who they all came to when their buttons and zippers fell off the night of the formal? (No, I didn't sabotage them.)

    Same thing you see in High School - the stuck-up History Teacher that looks down on the Shop Students that go by in the hall. When our teacher insulted some Shop students passing by, they made it VERY clear to him where is place was. "Who built your car? Your desk? Your house? The school you work in?" Ask yourself this: Who built your lab? Ran your power lines? Cools your Server room?

    Think about this the next time you deal with an end user: They look at you like you look at a plumber. Someone who's unneeded, and probably unwanted, until your toilet breaks. Then they're VERY important... at least until it's fixed.

    No career is any less important than any other, provided it brings value to society and life. Heck, even the oft-hated Lawyer has his place in making sure truly innocent people are free. It's when someone starts contributing crap that's not wanted or needed (frivilous lawsuits) that there is an issue.

    I enjoy TV and movies. I enjoy theater. They bring value to my life. I enjoy Video Games, too. Do I need recognized names reading the lines? No, but I do expect quality work. It just doesn't have to be from an expensive person.