Slashdot Mirror
Body Modifications Still Hinder IT Professionals?
thedeletekey writes "The Detroit News recently ran an article about body modifications in the workplace. This got me thinking; do body modifications such as tattoos and piercings still hinder IT professionals in the workplace? Or is this a thing of the past, as these types of personal changes have become more common in recent years. In my experience, I've found both stringent dress codes requiring business casual attire, and no visible body modifications, to no dress code at all. What has the rest of the IT world found to be common?"
It's never hindered me - I have pierced ears and visible tats.
The guy had several high speed fans attached to his body, something about overclocking and caffeine. They proved a real distraction to the other workers...
It's a sign of maturity. Barring religious reasons, one should not wear any form of *visible* modifications outside of those that are generally acceptable (e.g. lobe piercings in women). Anything else shows you're immature and trying to be "different" when really you're just another idiot.
Stand out of the crowd by what you do, not what you look like. Anything else is just juvenile.
My secretary had a problem with my Prince Albert, I fired her.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Or get the job first, then dye the hair or whatever. Once you're in the door and they value you as an employee they won't care if your hair is a different colour.
Do whatever you will to or for your body, your appearance, but do so at your own risk. Since tattoos are essentially permanent, think about long term goals, ramifications, etc., and what some "permanent" might mean for those goals.
The OP talks about some places being "cool" with tattoos, piercings, etc. That may be true, but that is only a snapshot of today's standards. During the dotcom heyday, with IT "specialists" (most really weren't, n'est-ce pas?) the standard for acceptable appearance was "anything goes". We need you, and we still love you even though your hair is filthy and goes to your waist, and you have tattoos.
But, I worked for a large corporation for 21 years... when I started, the dress code was un-stated, but tacitly enforced... you had to wear dress pants (absolutely no jeans), dress shirt, and at least a sports coat (yes, the tie was optional). Over time, as IT became the place to work and demand for workers was high I saw this dress code disappear and the office soon looked like the stretch pants, khaki cutoff shorts, flip-flops and sandals capital of the United States!
Fast forward to the dotcom crash... new management, and new dress codes, this time actually formally enforced. Yeah, things change.
So, think about it... tattoos go a long way... and regardless of right or wrong, some people react negatively to them, and regardless of whether you like that or not, it's there! (I know of a very close friend who lost out to a med-school... she found out later it was influenced by her tattoos.) (Also, I think this has even passed muster in court of law -- I think Starbucks actually has a dress code and appearance code that was challenged by someone who had a pierced something, and Starbucks prevailed.)
For those who need further prodding and convincing, read John Malloy's Dress for Success. Whether personally you like or don't like people's reactions to how you look at least Malloy will give you some empirical perspective to work with...
There's nothing wrong with looking like this guy or even this guy
So the leather tank top with the see-through nipple windows is an no-no?
I always save my last mod point to mod up a good troll. You people are too serious.
What, you mean looking like an idiot isn't a great way to get a good paying job?
Amazing the things you can learn on slashdot.
The worst part is that the article submitter seems to frame the question as if he is part of some great repressed minority fighting to gain the right to look like an idiot.
Perhaps we should point out that wearing your pants around your ankles and farting loudly during interviews also have the potential to decrease your job prospects?
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
No kidding. I'm all for individualism, but you still have to be presentable for the professional business environment. I don't feel sorry for people one bit if they stretch their ears down to their shoulders with various hoop guages or whatever, get insane amounts of tattoos all over, get very unconventional piercings that can't be covered up and so on and then whine about how they can't get a job anywhere but StarBucks and the record shop.
Look, you're an adult now. There are certain expectations put on you. If you don't want to adhere to the professional environment, start your own company or go work in a comic book shop.
Hey, it's helped me in the past!
One Friday, I had gotten my tongue pierced, by Monday, my tongue had swelled up so much, I could barely talk.
We were in a meeting that day, I received my assignments for the day with a slight mumble grumble - I guess my boss thought I was overtly stressed or just not happy with what I had to do.
He called me into the conference room and gave me a 150% raise, telling me how good he thought I was to the company and that he was so glad I was with them. I don't think he knew about the tongue ring for weeks...
The next month, I dyed my hair green...
Dada Mail - Program, Art Project or Absurdity?
I can't believe the number of posts on this site talking about how "unprofessional" even an earring on a male looks. Are we really still that wrapped up in gender identity that even a gold stud on a guy is a threat?
The arguement could be made that clients or managers could have the sort of archaic, narrow-minded ideas which would necessitate very conservative attire at the workplace; however, I don't expect so much of that attitude itself on a site where the majority of the posters are geeks. I thought we were a more open-minded lot than that.
This is the same attitude which used to force men to wear ties and women to wear dresses. It's the same attitude which made people be angry with the "long" bowl-cuts the Beatles sported when they came to the USA.
I'm not saying the attitude doesn't exist, or that you can currently do what you want and get away with it. All I'm saying is that there's no reason smart people like all of us should help it persist.
Just then the floating disembodied head of Colonel Sanders started yelling Everything You Know Is Wrong!-Weird Al
I'm not really into facial hardware, but I figure it's your face, you can do what you want with it. On the other hand, keep in mind that I'm the one who's got to look at it. "Be liberal in what you accept and conservative in what you produce" has been a good concept for a long time. It's probably applicable here too.
Dress code at a company I worked at was "business casual", with no reference to ink at all.
Then one day one of our desk-side techs (who really was a nice guy, by the way), got a complaint reported by a user. It was a little old lady who litterally was scared of the tech because of the ink on his arms. (a guitar, if memory serves) Instantly a new dress code went into place stating no visible tatoos. He was banished to long sleeves for the rest of his time at the company.
The moral: In a consulting company it ain't the boss who sets dress code. The client does.
-MrLogic
A wise person once told me that the difference between a good choice and a bad choice is that a good choice gives you more choices.
Considering how many types of (strech) pierchings and tatoos are difficult to reverse, why would someone want to get one? What kind of long term plan/goal does it promote?
Just to be nitpickin...
The military does require that its members be capable of presenting a professional apperance. Tats, while the traditional mark of someone about to kick your butt, are not allowed on skin that is visible while wearing a long-sleeved dress uniform. Peircings are limited to women (1 pair, in the ears. Conservative single stud or single pearl. No hoops or danglies), or off duty and far off post.
--Cam
All jocks think about is sports. All nerds think about is sex.
Just observe any film of late 60's NASA engineers and you have all the style tips you need for success. Buzz cut, white shirt, pocket protector.
Learn it. Know it. Live it.
I've known people who work for MS who were pierced from head to toe and I've always thought that to be unprofessional, distracting and quite honestly a bit repulsive. Clean yourself up and show up to work looking like a decent human being people.
In some cultures of human beings, it's considered indecent if one is not pierced.
If you want to be taken seriously and treated professionally where you work, unless it's a small company run by other geeks, you need to dress and look clean and professional. It's still a fact that people judge you based on how you look, and if you're in an office environment surrounded by people in slacks and shirts and other professional attire, you'll look very out of place with a bunch of piercings or tatoos. What it says to coworkers is that you don't care enough about the job to even APPEAR professional.
Now, I know some people here are going "Oh for the love of God! What century are we in that we still have to conform to such out-dated societal norms!? We must break free... blah blah blah" To those people I say "Grow up!" Your days as a rebellious member of some imagined counter-culture pretty much end when you're out on your own making your way in the world.
Yes, there are places still where there is no dress code... but they're the exception as opposed to the rule. If you want a professional job, you have to play by the professional rules set out by employers. Body mods, strange haircuts/colors etc. are a risk you may choose to take, but like all risks you have to realize there are consequences. You can't just run around and do whatever you want and expect everyone to be cool with it. When you work for someone else, you play by their rules.
Don't like it? Then I offer a modified stock Slashdot response for anyone who ever complains about a piece of software:
"If you don't like it, start your own company and set the rules how you like them! Otherwise, sit down"
It's a sign of maturity. Barring religious reasons, one should not wear any form of *visible* modifications outside of those that are generally acceptable (e.g. lobe piercings in women). Anything else shows you're immature and trying to be "different" when really you're just another idiot.
Stand out of the crowd by what you do, not what you look like. Anything else is just juvenile.
Well said!
One thing I've noticed -- and it's not just that I'm getting older -- is that young adults are a lot less mature than 20 years ago. In many ways they're more sophisticated, have more general knowledge, and may even be smarter, but what they are not is "adult." College age people are much more like teenagers now than young adults. Professors I talk to bitch about this a lot, having witnessed the decline.
Where am I going with this? These days adolescence seems to last until about 35, with all the juvenile behavior that goes with it.
The worst part is that the article submitter seems to frame the question as if he is part of some great repressed minority fighting to gain the right to look like an idiot.
Really, who isn't part of repressed minority now-a-days?
Ever since the 60s, if you can claim to be part of some repressed minority, you get to claim the moral highground in any argument and the facts of the argument are no longer relevant to you. Anyone how disagrees with you (no matter how ridiculous and asinine your position is) is The Man, trying to keep you down.
We live in a time where rudeness is rewarded.
I have an appearance issue that I'm sure makes me less employable: I walk funny. Not a big deal, just a minor neurological problem. I'm sure people look at me and ask themselves "Is that guy on drugs or what?" I've thought of carrying a cane, even though I don't even know how to use one, just to emphasize that it's a minor medical disability, not an effect of a debauched lifestyle. But I'm sure it'd come off as a pose. So I just live with it. Life is often unfair, and it's not productive to get self-righteous about it.
Actually, Starbucks has
Mod point free since 2001
I'm quite liberal [1] on most issues, including what I regard as trival things such as hair style, color and dress code, and I wouldn't want to work at a company that got uptight about engineers/developers/sysadmins wearing trainers or comfortable casual footware to the office, or that similarly imposed a needlessly strict dress code.
However, on the subject of tatoo's and piercings I find I'm quite conservative. If I'm being honest I'd find it hard not to feel suspicous of the judgement of anyone in the field who thought it would a good idea to place bits of metal through their face (other than perhaps for non medial purposes), especially if they are over the age of about 25.
I honestly would not feel comfortable with someone who thought it was a smart decision to do this to himself helping design software or network infrastucture and I wouldn't want him in the team I was in. Based on the avalible evidence, I would not trust his capacity for rational judgement (an absolute core requirement for sort of work I do).
With regard to tattoo's I'm of a similar opinion. Having the name of your wife/kids/football team (or something of similar significance) tattooed on your arm, I'd consider quite reasonable and not count that as a sign of poor judgement. The same would be true for things are 'tastefully' decorative (while realisting that term is subjective, I would include things such as celtic crosses, marui tattoo's [2]).
However, this would not be the case for anyone who I observed who had something overtly tasteless like 'Love/Hate' tatoos across their knuckles, or large tatoos of cartoon characters, like Daffy Duck or Tom & Jerry (also equally negative indicators when worn on ties IMO - with some exceptions).[3]
I'd try not to let someone having facial percings or tasteless tattoo's on it's own as something that stand in the way of someone being hired in a job interview, but I conceed that it could count against them in a tie breaker situation. If there was a position for someone in an overly creative area (such as graphic design, or perhaps marketing) I don't think I would consider percings or tattoo's necessarily negative indicators at all.
[1] NB: With a small 'l'.
[2] Not an exhaustive list
[3] I have a deadbeat realtive who incidentally has all of these, and then some.
Risky.
A +5 leather tank top of bewitchment usually works only on co-workers and clients of the opposite sex. Otherwise, it become a -5 leather tank top of unemployment.
You could always wear it with a nice jacket, in which case its charisma effect would probably be neutral, but it might still help your armor class.
It should also be obvious that, usually, only female players can wear it to positive charisma effect, except in very rare kinds of businesses.
There's a point at which you just have to shrug your shoulders and say tough shit. Yes, personal responsibility hurts sometimes. That's part of being an adult.
Besides, Hot Topic and Burger King are usually hiring, and they generally don't care about tats and whatnot. If you are in the above situation, be thankful that your moment of stupidity didn't result in death(yours or others), suck it up and move on. Don't expect the world(especially employers) to cut you slack for a boneheaded move you made while drunk.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
Gotta agree with this. I change my facial hair (look? design?) and the color of my hair every few months. I've been doing it long enough that people that know me are just amused. I went from bleach blonde, to red, to bald in a month and most of the comments are how my wife and children feel about it. I tell them that my family doesn't know me any other way, so change is the norm.
;)
I had a group of people in accounting howling with laughter after they attempted to tease me about my red hair. I told them that, confidentially, the president of the company dyes her hair too.
That said, I have a job to make money, and I love what I do. I can't say that I get very attached to companies as much as the people that work there. If the people that work there can't deal with my hair, then I think they care more about my looks than they care about my work.
Either way, I've got that whole eccentric computer geek thing down. I was hired by a companya and told afterword that I was hired because I looked like "a hacker" and they wanted one around in case they "got hacked". Most people just ask my opinion about what computer to buy their kid. Sometimes the stereotype can work to your advantage.
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
Call me crazy, but I feel a far more comfortable dealing with people dressed as they want to be dressed, with whatever visible body modifications they have. In fact, I feel far more comfortable dealing with people who have piercings and/or visible tattoos, despite having none myself. Why? Because far more often than not, that type of work environment makes the employees comfortable and happy with their job, which is the best way to ensure they do their job well. Most of the employees at the best pizza place in this county (actually rated best by the newspapers, not just IMO) have tattoos, piercings, and non-standard haircuts, and they do their jobs well.
When I worked in customer service myself, I got very relieved whenever I got to deal with people who were visibly off-beat, because contrary to popular belief, they tend to be nice people. They go by their own standards instead of forcing themselves to conform to someone else's standards, which means less stress for them, and get this: most people would rather deal with someone who's actually friendly than someone being forced to fake it. Less stress = more relaxed = generally easier to deal with.
I'm also rather saddened that some would call body modification immature. Though I'm sure some immature people modify themselves, it is by no means an indicator; as implied above, I've found a greater degree of maturity in those who are into it than those against it. It's not usually whoring for attention any more than wearing a shirt because you find it aesthetic. It is an aspect of individuality, and individuality is what drives humanity, like it or not. Entrepeneurs and inventors aren't conformists, and I don't think anyone else needs to be either. We're humans, not robots. Frankly, I'd rather my potential jobs be replaced by machines than have to make myself as machinelike as possible to obtain and keep those jobs.
By reading this you acknowledge that you have read it.
I prefer to think of it as body modifications providing important hiring visual queues for IT managers.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Top Story: Normal People Don't Like Freaks
I fear not the modders.
Small business, the type of business that supposedly makes the US operate, does not willingly accept freaks. They tolerate IT types (people with poor social skills, and perhaps less than ideal grooming habits), but they aren't going to willingly choose to employ people who look like freaks (to them).
It's JobHunting101: All else being equal, the applicant who makes the best impression gets the job. Now if the place you're applying to is full of people with "tats" and noserings, then you're set. But since that hasn't exactly caught on with normal people, your chances of appearing as though you would "fit in" are slim.
If you're a freak, hide it until you get the job (and ideally until you prove that you're invaluable).
.sigs are for post^Hers.
Nobody I have worked with having:
Long hair; Piercings; or Tatoos
has yet been nearly as incompetent, lazy, or idiotic as the former crew.
And yet they haven't figured out how to take control from the inept people who dress and look "normal."
However, buddy-buddy golfers hire more buddy-buddy golfers, and the cycle continues.
The real problem is that you can't get anywhere in life if you take a defeatist attitude, as is the case with much nonconformism. Many (not all of course) are more concerned with being different than with the results of doing so. That's fine, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't shout, "I'm different," and "treat me the same," in the same breath. Obviously it's unconstitutional to discriminate on the basis of certain fundamental differences (sex, race, and religion), but, religious arguments aside, those are things that are beyond one's realm of control.
The nonconformists don't want to be cogs, and think the conformists are blind for not realizing the part they play. In actuality the conformists are fully aware of their cog status, but realize it's the lowest risk/reward scenario, as exemplified by by your vicious cycle argument.
It could even be argued that the conformists have the greater sense of self, since they don't have the overwhelming need to show the world that they're an individual. In reality of course, 20% are leaders, and 80% are followers, regardless of what color their hair is, or how many orifaces have or have not been punctured.
But what it comes down to is the idea that bring professional is about putting your job ahead of yourself and, like it or not, that's all encompassing. Should it matter what color your hair is? Most people inherintly think it shouln't, although they can't explain why except to say "it just shouldn't." Meanwhile both groups feel that the other looks down on them (Note that this isn't really necessarily the case, just the perception), and as long as there's a perception of animosity, it's going to be a barrier. That's just the price to pay for intentionally being "different."
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
you're an adult now
Yep, totally. And the funny thing about being an adult is being able to choose what you want to do, what to wear and where to work. You want a job at IBM? Then you'll have to adjust to the company's codes.
But it's also stupid to think you can't work in a professional environment unless you look a certain way. In fact it's bullshit. It all depends on what your professional company expects from you.
I wear steel tubes in my ears. I have a long goatee and sideburns. I wear tshirts and jeans. I don't have tattoos yet, but I won't be hindered by my job when it comes to deciding what and where they'll be.
Do you know why I can?
Because it's not what I am expected to be like. Because I don't interact with customers. I don't meet with partners. I'm not an executive and don't want to be. I write code. Basically the only time I'm called out of my office is for status meetings.
Most importantly though, I work for a very liberal tech company. Our execs don't judge you by what you look like or what you wear. I've had hallway chats with high-level VPs while wearing WTF? and "Every time you download music god kills a kitten" shirts and it just isn't an issue.
However, if for some reason I had to give a talk or teach a class to people outside out company, I'd of course choose appropriate attire and look professional, but professional doesn't have to mean being anal-retentive, wearing button-up shirts and kaki slacks.
BUT, if I worked for a company I really liked and they changed the dress code to be button ups and a tie, fine. It's my choice to either work there or find new work. I can adapt, I'm not physically attached to my clothing. The earrings would be a little weird because the holes are kind of large, but I'm sure I could find a solution if I had to.
But I don't.
R(k)
'quite frankly.. body 'modifications' as the article refered to them, are looked at by many others as 'body mutilations'. While I am all for people having the freedom to do whatever they want, this actually means 'being able to do whatever they want so long as they dont infringe on the freedoms of everyone else'. Subjecting others to the display of such mutilation crosses the line. A similar example is if I started refusing to take a shower every day I went to work - my 'right to stink' is overridden by other's 'right to breath fresh air'. Besides if you really analyze it, puncturing your body is fundamentally disturbing - in fact I think that the people that do this, do it just to get this shock value' from this disturbance they give others. They're basically insecure and think it makes them 'cool' - when in fact they've just de-sensitized themselves so much they think they like it. Whatever. There's limits to what you can do in society and be treated respectfully. When you are enourmously fat, you smell bad, or you insist on puncturing your body with little hooks, you're going to get treated differently and that's just the way it is - the majority of people dont want to be subjected to that type of nonsense.
-- NeTMoNGeR
How you present yourself to the world says a lot about what sort of person you are. If this wasn't the case then we wouldn't spend so much time on our appearance. You certainly wouldn't go through the pain of getting a tattoo or a body piercing if it didn't convey some sort of a message.
You can pretend that piercing your eyebrow six times makes you some sort of "individual," but that's hardly the case. Chances are good that at the club you hang out at on the weekends half the kids there look just like you. I find it amusing to see packs of these so-called "individuals" roaming around together in their freakish uniforms. The reason to get tattoos and body piercings is to fit in with a crowd, plain and simple.
The question is which crowd do you want to fit in with? Do you want to fit in with the crowd that looks like it is going somewhere, or do you want to fit in with the crowd that looks like it is strung out on dope. Sure, it's possible, even probable in your case, that you simply *dress* like a dope fiend without being one. Theoretically the rest of us should spend some time getting to know the person underneath the freakish exterior before we judge you.
Well, that's not the way the world is ever likely to work. First of all, that sort of behaviour can be dangerous. Quite a few of the people that look like dope fiends *are* dope fiends. And while it's possible that the guy who dresses like a Bible Salesman is really some sort of a hideous menace to society chances are in your favor that he is not.
All of us, to some extent or another wear a mask. However, the mask that we choose to wear says a great deal about the person behind the mask. Only an idiot ignores these important clues when meeting new people, and I have no doubt that you do the same thing. Heck, the reality is that the reason for getting these body modifications is that they serve as an advertisement for the type of person that you are and the types of activities that you are interested in. Employers understand this very well, and they also understand that this sort of personal advertisement doesn't always fit in well in a corporate environment. Employers know that their next client is far more likely to be put off by this sort of thing than attracted by it, and so they hire accordingly.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Perhaps its time christians took a hard look in the mirror and asked themselves why they're so offensive to so many people. They claim to believe the bible, but they obviously never read it. Or they believe they can "pick and choose" as to what parts are true - and then impose their choices on everyone else.
We are over-populated, with our resources stretched WAY beyond the breaking point, and yet we still have religions that teach that birth control is a sin.
We know that homosexuality and lesbianism are normal behaviour in many mammals, including humans, and yet we have christians going around saying its an abomination.
We ave bible-thumpers who go around saying (as the post I was replying to tried to claim) that only pagans get their ears pierced, when their own bible says otherwise.
If I'm ripping them a new ass-hole, its because they're so full of shit because their current one obviously isn't working.
I worked at a startup company where we had a stunningly beautiful intern who wore tight knit tops, no bra and no need for one though she was quite well endowed, and had a variety of nipple piercing jewelry (changed daily.)
It really lowered the productivity of some of my coworkers and most of them could not look her in the eye when they talked to her.
It was no problem for me; I've been hanging around with pierced S&M folks since the early 80s! Been there. Done that.
Dog is my co-pilot.
I thought we'd be over it by now. I think diversity ought to be something to be encouraged rather than discouraged so I'm dismayed when a corperation talks diversity but means race.
Shaving your facial hair isn't a matter of maturity it's a matter of culture. Many cultures (Amish, Sikhs, and more) have rules dictating this. I fail to see how the body mod scene fails to qualify as a distinct culture, yet people enjoy discriminating against them and calling them names despite having met maybe 2 of said people and making a judgement call in the first 5 minutes of having met them. Personally, I have no tattoos or piercings but I don't have any disrespect for those who do.
Business is about making money, not wearing long pants and a tie.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
I went from bleach blonde, to red, to bald in a month
Now that would look awesome under time-lapse photography. It would look like your head had gone into critical meltdown.
The only discrimination that is illegal is the type of discrimination that has been held illegal -- usually based on a protected attribute. It is legal to discriminate on someone with green hair, or drives a F.O.R.D. or who wore Calvin Klein jeans on a Tuesday.
Fight Spammers!
I have NO piercings and NO tats. But I'm a long haired white guy.
I've had job issues based on my hair alone. The most recent was when the little cocksucker (sorry, I don't have enough middle fingers for my former employer.) that became my boss who started calling me "Jesus" and having one of his lackeys follow suit. Yes, because I wasn't showing up to work with polo shirts & boat shoes, I became the one to poke fun at. (These people were all hired well after I was.)
So if you're worried about piercings causing you problems, the answer is "yes, they'll cause problems. So will the tattoos."
He's a tattoo artist.
Last week, we had a very interesting lecture by one of the heads of company's Client Service Group on client meetings/presentations.
At one point, she said something quite wise about appearances, that is a perfect answer to the article's question:
"When a client leaves a meeting with you, the client should remember WHAT YOU SAID, and NOT how you looked".
As a background, I work for a software development company that sells to large financial companies; many of us "geeks" get to meet clients so the lecture was very popular.
To add to that, my own view is "If you need to distinguish yourself from other people by what you look like, there's a big chance you have no other beneficial qualities to dinstinguish yourself with". There are exceptions to this, but not many in my experience.
-DVK
--
"Can't act. Can't sing. Balding. Can dance a little."
- Human Resources Department judgment on Fred Astaire's Hollywood screen test in the early 1930s.
"The right to figure things out for yourself is the only true freedom everyone shares. Go use it"-R.A.Heinlein
I'm late to this discussion, but I'll make my statement.
Businesses should be allowed to set whatever dress code they want. Don't like it? Don't work there. Given that I believe that businesses in general shouldn't have to hire anyone they don't want for any reason, I suppose I'm in a minority.
Seriously, be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. It's that simple. I don't think anyone out there that gets a piercing or a tatoo or whatever doesn't know that a lot of people, right or wrong, have issues with that.
I have my ear pierced and while it's really no big deal nowadays, there are some places that it's an issue. You know what? I have no desire to deal with or work with a company that's that hung up on an earring. They're tight ass pricks. That's their right. It's my right not to want to deal with them and work elsewhere.
The biggest problem I have with the "different" or "extreme" crowd is that some of them think it's *their* right to do whatever they want and that everyone around them should just deal with it. Yeah? Fuck you guys. Do what you want. I'm all for it. However, quit telling *other* people who they should feel and think. Do what you but be willing to accept the fucking consequences.
Businesses exist, for the most part, to make money. If your cute little lip ring or tatoo impedes that, why should they hire you? Even if you're skilled, it's likely there's someone else who is just as skilled who isn't outside that business's comfort zone. And again, if someone is going to get that caught up over a lip ring, do you really *want* to work there? I wouldn't.
If your response is, "Well I *need* X job." Take your piercings out. If you've got tats it's likely you know the possible consequnces when you got them. If you didn't, you're probably not bright enough to be qualified for any place with a dress code. Beggars can't be choosers. Come on people, this is real life. I'm not telling anyone to give up their "individuality" or personal "expression." I'm not telling anyone to "grow up" because I personally have almost no issues with tats or piercings. (Although there is a point of excess that even bothers me. Deal with it.) Hell, I'm the kind of person who would lose clients before firing or not hiring someone based on appearance. However, that's *my* choice and it's not my place to other people hiring how they need to run *their* business.
I do the opposite. I look like a normal, clean living person (no tattoos, no piercings), yet I'm a dope fiend! Get the best of both worlds that way, good professional career, yet I can spend the weekends at the 'bake sale'.
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Dunno about him, but personally I don't mind that. I have no piercings or tattoos, but I still do tell my employer that no, I don't ever want a promotion to management. Been there, done that, decided that management is not something I like to do.
Yes, I can occasionally talk to a customer, or draw a flowchart on a whiteboard in front of an audience. But the keyword is: occasionally. I'd very much sit at a computer than spend every day in meetings, corporate power games, or trying to make Wally finally actually do _some_ work, _any_ work. I very much like it when he's not really my problem.
Or to put it otherwise: if I wanted to do either management or marketting, I'd have went to a business college. I chose computers for a reason: that's what I like to do.
So other people will get promoted instead. Good. That I like.
So I've had people I've recruited end up my boss. I'm ok with that. They probably deserved it too, with the amount of show-business they put up for the boss instead of actually working or actually learning programming. But anyway, it still means that I do the job I like.
Some people seem to assume an uni-dimensional rat race and that money is the only thing that matters. They'd do _anything_ for money, or for some stupid social acceptance goal like "promotions are good". They just have to chase some stupid goal that will actually make their life _worse_, much like dogs chase a car: never stopping to think what they'd do if they actually caught one.
At one point it's not even a promotion any more, it's just really switching carreer tracks to a completely new line of work. A new work which doesn't even resemble the old one, and you're not even prepared for, and you're probably incompetent for or don't have the right personality type for. (E.g., an introvert won't really enjoy a life where 8 hours a day are spent talking to everyone, from making sure what the team is doing, to meetings with clients, to meetings with higher level management, etc.)
It's called "Peter's Principle".
Is it worth it? Is it what you _really_ want to do with your life? Would you switch jobs to _anything_, including driving a garbage truck or shovelling manure, if it paid better and was fashionably disguised as a promotion?
Well, if you can honestly answer "yes" to that, yeah, you're in the right rat race. Keep up, brown nose, backstab, and don't let the Joneses get a promotion before you do.
If not, well, then you understand why some of us have "quality of life" as the _goal_, and money and promotions are just _means_ to that end. If the trade-off involved in getting those means actually move you farther from the goal, is actually a bad trade-off. One to be avoided.
(Just as examples of such trade-offs: you get more money but at the expense of getting a stress-related ulcer, or doing so much overtime that you don't actually have the time to enjoy that money, or whatever. Was it worth it? Did it really improve your life?)
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Basically nothing good comes from it and she got it so long ago it isn't important to her anymore. The problems or fears it causes include:
Well this is just my take, I have nothing personal against tattoos or piercings (well on girls tattoos are sexy to me but I feel less professionally interested in pierced people.. and my eyes are always going to the piercing instead of their eyes so it hinders my communication with them I think). If you think you might work in a conservative national or corporate culture one day it probably is better to go with a small tattoo than a piercing is my guess, but if you can make it without either until you are out of school you'll probably be happier later on I'd guess. Whatever!
Your story illustrates how fully body mods have shifted in our culture from rebellious to conformist. People now get piercing and tattoos because their peers have them, rather than to stand out from their peers. Sorry, but it has become hard for me to look at a marked-up 16-year old and not roll my eyes. The very fact they they succumbed to peer pressure makes me view them as the opposite of the rebel they are trying to portray. It's like wearing an "I AM COOL(TM)" T-shirt. The fact that you think wearing that shirt makes you cool indicates how uncool you really are. Man, there goes my karma.