CVS Disposable Camcorder Hacked

ptorrone writes "We've been watching this on MAKE closely- and the king of the one-time digital camera hacks/analysis finally got his hands on a CVS Camcorder on Friday, the 24th via someone shipping him one FedEx. Within 18 hours, he had slurped the flash memory and has the unencrypted, XVID codec, 320x240, 30fps movies stored in the camera on his computer."

Comments

Hours of crappy goodness

[gbulmash]

If you don't hack the camcorder, you're paying $2 and change a minute to buy it, record 20 minutes, and have those 20 minutes put on DVD. Considering how many obvious artifacts were in the demo scene from the DVD, I am ready to boycott CVS just on principle. Charging that much money for such crap!

Now the obvious answer is "hack the camcorder. Then it doesn't cost so much and you get more value for your money." Hmmmm... I can get a 16 ounce sh*t-flavored milkshake for $3, but with a little trick, I can turn that into a gallon. What a bargain, so long as I don't mind that it's still sh*t-flavored. If I want more sh*t-flavored goodness, then darn, I better learn the trick. If I want a milkshake that doesn't taste like sh*t, I think I'd better save my pennies.

The ONLY reason I can think of getting this is to get a camcorder for your kid. If they break it, big deal.

It also sort of reminds me of that old Mattell video camera that recorded grainy B&W on audio cassettes. Though crappy, it has its own kind of retro cool if you can find one now. Perhaps these cameras have value as collectors items.

- Greg

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[SmartyFartBlast]

It was a Fisher-Price camera and they were kinda neato :-)

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[tepples]

Fisher-Price being part of Mattel, of course.

Anyway, the camera was called "PXL-2000" and the format was called "Pixelvision". Read More...

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Slashdot. You can say "shit" here. Hell, shit is practically all that ever gets posted around here.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[KidHash]

I think we should boycott CVS too!

Subversion is the way forward!

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[slashdot.org]

Considering how many obvious artifacts were in the demo scene from the DVD, I am ready to boycott CVS just on principle

Huh. I just watched PICT0004.AVI (didn't want to download more so other people might get a change to access his site). I didn't think it was all _that_ bad. In fact, I don't believe it's much (if any) worse than my Sony DCR-PC9. Sure that's an oldy, but fuck, I paid like $900 for it or something.

I think there's use for video of this quality. To bad there's no CVS around here...

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[AndroidCat]

I still use the little TV that came with it.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Speare]

• The ONLY reason I can think of getting this is to get a camcorder for your kid. If they break it, big deal.
• Film events which are too dangerous to risk your real camera.
• Film from many vantage points at once, without massive cost.
• Film from vantage points which might be at risk of vandalism or theft.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Council]

Like this.

Any other examples of too-damaging-for-a-real-camera photography?

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[bill_mcgonigle]

Considering how many obvious artifacts were in the demo scene from the DVD, I am ready to boycott CVS just on principle. Charging that much money for such crap!

Wow, if you don't like a deal someone is offering, just don't take it. Show me a store that isn't charging too much for something or that offers something that doesn't present a value proposition that you accept. You're going to have to be self-sufficient if you start boycotting all of 'em.

I'm thinking of getting a weather balloon and tying one of these on to see what happens. $30 sounds good.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Vellmont]

The video really isn't quite as bad as you're describing. Pict0004.avi is actually fairly decent (shot at the highest datarate) and is about the same quality as a VHS tape recorded at extended play.

Maybe that kind of quality isn't usefull to you, but for many people that kind of quality is decent enough to be usefull. For someone on a small budget, $30 ($20 with coupon) is actually affordable, where $200-$300 for a real digital camcorder isn't at all.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

For someone on a small budget, $30 ($20 with coupon) is actually affordable, where $200-$300 for a real digital camcorder isn't at all.

Yeah but you can only use it for 20 minutes unless you steal it from CVS. If you're going to do that, just go to rent-a-center and get a nice camcorder for free.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Jafafa Hots]

Fisher-Price was not part of Mattel when the PXL was sold - it was a division of Quaker Oats. Later was spun off, then bought by Mattel, but not for years after the PXL was discontinued.

I worked for FP for years, I could tell you some wild stories about the PXL.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[ltbarcly]

So if something is bullshit he should put his head down and shutup about it?

No my friend, fuck you.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[noidentity]

I can get a 16 ounce sh*t-flavored milkshake for $3, but with a little trick, I can turn that into a gallon. What a bargain, so long as I don't mind that it's still sh*t-flavored. If I want more sh*t-flavored goodness, then darn, I better learn the trick. If I want a milkshake that doesn't taste like sh*t, I think I'd better save my pennies.

<verifies that this isn't a children's message board>

Man, the marketing company that came up with a flavor called "sh*t" realls sucks. Honest, but I mean, wow.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Vellmont]

By my calculations 417 kilobits/sec in 128 megabytes of flash would leave enough room for 42 minutes of video. That's pretty decent.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "steal it from CVS". Is CVS only renting the camera, and you're expected to return it? I don't see any references to that anywhere. Unless you have to sign something when you buy it saying you'll return it, that camera is yours to do with whatever you please. Don't blame hardware hackers if CVS chose a bad business model.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[sznupi]

I would gladly buy such camcorder, even if quite crappy. Simply because I'm a student that can't afford anything better...but they won't be offered here :( (Poland)

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

Is CVS only renting the camera, and you're expected to return it? I don't see any references to that anywhere.

According to this article you are only renting the camera, and are supposed to give it back when you're done.

Unless you have to sign something when you buy it saying you'll return it, that camera is yours to do with whatever you please.

So if I ask to borrow your car to drive 20 miles, and I don't sign anything, I can take your car on a 2000 mile trip, turn back your odometer, and get away with it? A contract doesn't have to be signed in order to be binding. Sure, you might get away with breaking it, but that doesn't mean you're not stealing.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh Jesus Fucking Christ! Get off your moral high horse.

If there's not a EULA then the purchaser can do whatever the fuck they want with it.

I think I'll go buy one and toss it into the Atlantic, just because I can.

Oh wait, then I'll be polluting, and your self-righteous punkass will probably get Greenpeace after me.

Fuck you.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Vellmont]

According to this article you are only renting the camera, and are supposed to give it back when you're done.

And an article in todays Star Tribune http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5475334.htm l says that there's no security deposit, and you don't have to return it if it's broken. That doesn't sound like a rental agreement to me. Coupled with the fact that there's no rental contract, I'd say "rental" is just a convienent word to use for people to describe the arrangement.

So if I ask to borrow your car to drive 20 miles, and I don't sign anything, I can take your car on a 2000 mile trip, turn back your odometer, and get away with it?

This isn't an informal "borrow a car from a friend" relationship. This is a storefront where people buy things and if a contract is involved, it's spelled out quite clearly. In this case, they sell you the camera, and then hope you'll bring it back.

A contract doesn't have to be signed in order to be binding.

No it doesn't but you do have to have at least a verbal agreement to have a binding contract. Unless they say whenever you buy one of these things "buy buying this product you agree to return it" then you have no obligation whatsoever to return it.

Sure, you might get away with breaking it, but that doesn't mean you're not stealing.

Gee.. I thought stealing meant someone took something from you without you giving it to them, or selling it to them. Since CVS is actually selling these things to consumers, there's no "theft" involved. If you want to co-opt the word theft to your own personal definition, fine. But don't go around using it that way and expect people to agree with you.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I worked for FP for years, I could tell you some wild stories about the PXL.

Woohoo! Amateur Pixelvision-pr0n!

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[connorbd]

The PXL-2000 was an excellent toy for a kid interested in video production in the late 80s. With MiniDV being as cheap is it is now I don't think there's all that much market for something like it anymore, but I'd still love to see the PXL resurrected.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[log0n]

Those Fisher Price kids cameras got a lot of us modern indy filmmakers started.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[B3ryllium]

Shop Smart! Shop Subversion-Mart!

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

I thought stealing meant someone took something from you without you giving it to them, or selling it to them.

There is more than one form of stealing, you know.

Since CVS is actually selling these things to consumers, there's no "theft" involved.

It seems quite clear to me that they aren't selling these things to consumers, which I've already explained in my previous post.

If you want to co-opt the word theft to your own personal definition, fine. But don't go around using it that way and expect people to agree with you.

Right, so if I rent a u-haul for 150 miles, drive it for 1500 miles, and then turn back the odometer, that's not stealing, right?

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Vellmont]

There is more than one form of stealing, you know.

But all forms of "stealing" involve someone taking something that doesn't belong to them. In this case the camera is sold to you free and clear. That's a transfer of ownership, and there's no stealing of any form involved assuming you pay for it.


It seems quite clear to me that they aren't selling these things to consumers, which I've already explained in my previous post.

And it's quite clear that you're wrong. Unless you sign an agreement that the camera isn't yours, it is yours.

Right, so if I rent a u-haul for 150 miles, drive it for 1500 miles, and then turn back the odometer, that's not stealing, right?

You clearly don't understand that contracts are formal agreements between two parties. When I rent a truck/trailer from U-haul I have to sign a contract stating how I can use the truck/trailer and an agreed upon price. If I agree to use it for up to 150 miles, but instead use it for 1500 miles, I've broken the contract. There is no contract here. There is no implied contract. Your analogies amount to nothing because they don't apply.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Chris Tucker]

OK, you show me in the contract form you have to sign at CVS before they hand you the camera that they are only renting it to you and that you have to return it.

Oh, wait, there IS no contract and you're not renting it. Not only do you NOT get your $30.00 back, you have to pay them $20.00 MORE to get your video off the camera and onto a DVD.

SO, if you can somehow twist these facts into some manner of "contract" where CVS "owns" the camera that they are merely "renting" to you, well, <Brian the dog from Family Guy>"Can I buy some pot from you?"</Brian the dog from Family Guy>

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[gbulmash]

They'll probably be offered on Ebay. Figure $50-55 a camera, including postage to Europe could make some enterprising American a nice little profit if he could move the volume.

- Greg

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[sznupi]

Unfortunatelly that won't work for me, since PayPal isn't available in Poland, even though eBay is (although their polish service is laughable compared to other eBays & to the polish potentate in the field)

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

OK, you show me in the contract form you have to sign at CVS before they hand you the camera that they are only renting it to you and that you have to return it.

As I said, a contract does not have to be signed to be a contract. If you think it does, then show me the contract where CVS transferred the title to you.

Oh, wait, there IS no contract and you're not renting it. Not only do you NOT get your $30.00 back, you have to pay them $20.00 MORE to get your video off the camera and onto a DVD.

And when you return your camera, do you get that back? So according to you, you have to pay them $20 and give them a camera which you own, in order to get the DVD?

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

But all forms of "stealing" involve someone taking something that doesn't belong to them. In this case the camera is sold to you free and clear.

From my understanding, the camera isn't sold to you free and clear. When you return the camera to get the DVD, you don't get the camera back.

Unless you sign an agreement that the camera isn't yours, it is yours.

Based on what? In order for the title of the camera to change hands, there has to be an agreement. It doesn't have to be a signed contract, but just because some store owner hands you something doesn't mean you own it.

You clearly don't understand that contracts are formal agreements between two parties.

Of course I understand this.

When I rent a truck/trailer from U-haul I have to sign a contract stating how I can use the truck/trailer and an agreed upon price.

No you don't.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Chris Tucker]

"As I said, a contract does not have to be signed to be a contract. If you think it does, then show me the contract where CVS transferred the title to you."

The receipt that the cash register spits out that says "One CVS camcorder@$29.95". THAT'S the contract.

"And when you return your camera, do you get that back? So according to you, you have to pay them $20 and give them a camera which you own, in order to get the DVD?"

Yep. Funny how that works out.If you think it's a good deal to spend US$50.00 to get 20 minutes of video on a DVD, then CVS will be happy to take you, er, that is, take your money and give you a DVD with 20 minutes of video on it.

So, let's settle this once and for all.

Show me where CVS claims ownership of the camera after you hand them US$30.00.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

The receipt that the cash register spits out that says "One CVS camcorder@$29.95". THAT'S the contract.

That's pretty ambiguous. Can you buy these things online? I've looked around and I can't find them. I guess I'd have to go to the store and ask. That'd be one way to know for sure.

Show me where CVS claims ownership of the camera after you hand them US$30.00.

I haven't bought the damn thing, and I don't plan on it. Maybe you're right, but you're certainly not doing a good job of arguing it.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[Vellmont]

This argument has become pointless as you have no understanding of contract law.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[anthony_dipierro]

Considering that you think a contract has to be signed in order to be valid at least I know more than you do about contract law. Then again, maybe we're both right, and you just live in a very strange jurisdiction where people have to sign things all the time.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[joshsisk]

It seems quite clear to me that they aren't selling these things to consumers, which I've already explained in my previous post.

They are selling these to consumers. I bought one. I signed no contract, and there was no License Agreement on the blister pack.

These things are being sold in exactly the same way as disposable cameras are. It's NOT a rental. Again - I signed nothing, and there is no ULA anywhere on the package (at least not that I noted).

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[joshsisk]

When I rent a truck/trailer from U-haul I have to sign a contract stating how I can use the truck/trailer and an agreed upon price.

No you don't.

What are you talking about? I rented a trailer from U-Haul last weekend, and I MOST DEFINITELY had to sign a contract. This contract laid out the cost, and stipulated late fees and so forth if I returned it late, also it laid out rules for proper use that I agreed to follow.

Re:Hours of crappy goodness

[trentblase]

It's called a bill of sale, the little piece of paper they hand you when you pay.

oh yeah!

[bigwavejas]

Getting a used Pure Digital / CVS Disposable Camcorder shipped to you... $15 dollars
Taking the day off work to be at home for the Fed-ex delivery... $140 dollars
Spending 18 hours hacking the camera for 30secs of video... Priceless!!!

Re:oh yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually.. FedEx doesnt require a signature for home deliveries.. They will just drop it on your front door. I got an email from them as a policy change saying you would actually have to pay for that service instead..

Re:oh yeah!

[Jozer99]

Not to mention that they haven't been able to communicate with the CAMERA yet. They took the flash chip off the board and communicated with that. I hope you all like desoldering microscopic pins.

Re:oh yeah!

[evilviper]

I hope you all like desoldering microscopic pins.

Huh? Where do you think you are?

Re:oh yeah!

[Jozer99]

Well, there is a difference between a geek hacking a disposable camera to be reuseable, which is smart and practical, and a geek spending hours of careful labor destroying a disposable camera to get the pictures off of it, which is stupid. BTW: I agree with your sig.

Re:oh yeah!

[morcheeba]

I spent about 2 hours getting the pictures out, which was helped out by the fact that I had the right hardware and software laying around. But, the goal of that wasn't really to get my pictures. It was to get the firmware to analyze (mission accomplished) and to determine the format of the pictures (also accomplished). Yea, if I advocated this just to get pictures, then I'd agree that was a little excessive.

Also, yesterday I got the flash re-installed into the camera and it still works.

BTW: agree with grandparent's sig, too. I was watching the movie and kept thinking "ug, this is bad, but not as bad as Ep II"

Nothing?!

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

Nothing for you to see here. Please move along.

I beg to differ!

FUCK YOU!

[Anonymous Coward]

n/t

more infos @ http://doskir.de.vu

[doskir]

more infos @ http://doskir.de.vu/

Re:more infos @ http://doskir.de.vu

[Anonymous Coward]

go to that link if you want ads, popups and some stupid mafia site

Hacking Cameras...

[__aaclcg7560]

... isn't nothing sacred anymore? The next thing someone will hack will be the Hubble Space Telescope.

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[Anonymous Coward]

The preview button should have your name on it.

How the fuck do you expect to troll when your sentences aren't even coherent?

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[__aaclcg7560]

Funny. I didn't think trolls had to be coherent. Beside, if the preview button has my name on it, it should be link to my website. :P

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[ari_j]

... isn't nothing sacred anymore?

Evidently, nothing is sacred anymore. Not even grammatical rules against double negatives in the English language.

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone does, I want pictures of the first astromers to receive high resolution images of the C322-Goatse.cx black hole.

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[jcuervo]

"I dropped out of school in the fourth grade and I ain't not no undumber!"

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[AmicoToni]

It is becoming increasingly common. Interestingly, in other languages the double negative has long been the rule rather than the exception. Italian, for instance: "Non ho niente", literally "I don't have nothing". Except it is actually grammatically correct!

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[Anonymous Coward]

That should be "Isn't nothing sacred nomore"

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[CitizenJohnJohn]

>grammatical rules against double negatives

They're more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.

Shakespeare is full of double negatives, and I defy anyone to misinterpret Al Jolson's "You ain't seen nothin' yet!"

Language is not math or formal logic. The only reason to completely avoid the double negative is because it annoys people who have been brainwashed by doctrinaire grammarians in school. Hang, on, that's a reason to use it more!

Re:Hacking Cameras...

[ari_j]

The fact that double negatives are required in some languages is precisely why I specified English for my joke. To be honest, I prefer neither set of rules and would rather have double negatives act as a positive, a la Homer Simpson: "I'm not not drinking." That is the logical way for them to work, and would be preferable despite what other replies have asserted about language not being mathematical or logical. Half the problems in the world can be attributed to misunderstandings (and the other half can be blamed on made-up statistics, no doubt), and reducing the difficulty of understanding a language for those who are entirely new to the language itself is one way to reduce the rate of misunderstandings.

The question is...

[Anonymous Coward]

...do they completely reformat the flash every time one of these is returning for processing. This could become a strange form of voyeurism.

Re:The question is...

[morcheeba]

That was my thought with the first disposable digital camera. IIRC, I didn't find an obvious erase in the firmware, but that's a moot point because I never found a recycled camera. The camera wasn't really designed to be recycled -- it had a surface that could easily be scratched, even with very light use.

The second still camera (the PV2) has a USB function that sucks out all the important system files out of Flash memory and saves them in SDRAM. It then reformats the memory and copies the files back in. It's a pretty good erase (maybe not NSA secure, but recovery would involve probing the IC wafer), and I don't see why it wouldn't be used.

But, the biggest security risk seems to be the time after development and before sending the cameras back to Pure Digital for recycling. According the people who operate the machines, the development machines don't erase the pictures. They stay on the camera in case something messes up -- they didn't want to have angry customers saying "what do you mean you accidently deleted my prints". It seems that the used cameras stay a while at the stores, so any operator could make prints of your pictures for up to a couple of weeks after you have them developed. But, bad employees is probably about the same risk as with traditional development.

Since the camcorder uses a separate partition with only picture data, I suspect it would be pretty easy to reformat only this section completely. (the PV2 had system and user data in the same filesystem, which is why it had to save the data in ram)

XviD codec?

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

I wonder, if these people based their camcorder MPEG-4 encoding using the actual XviD codebase, where's the code? (not sure, but is XviD LGPL or GPL?)
I also wonder if they paid the MPEG-4 licensing fee too. (probably on that one)

Re:XviD codec?

[bhtooefr]

I do believe that it uses a Hitachi microcontroller with an MPEG-4 encoder built in, and I'm sure that Hitachi paid the MPEG-4 licensing fee.

Re:XviD codec?

[ziplux]

XviD is licensed under the GPL. If they link with it at runtime they must provide the code not only for the version of XviD they used, but also for any parts of their application that link with XviD.

Re:XviD codec?

[Ungrounded Lightning]

XviD is licensed under the GPL. If they link with it at runtime they must provide the code not only for the version of XviD they used, but also for any parts of their application that link with XviD.

But they must offer it to the parties to whom they DISTRIBUTED THE SOFTWARE or devices containing it. That means the companies who bought the camera/development system.

Does it have to go further? If you actually PURCHASE the cameras, I believe so. If ownership remains with the store (and you are merely leaving a deposit when you "buy" the camera), I'm not so sure.

If there's GPLed software in the navigation computer of a car, and you rent it from Avis, is either Avis or the device manufacturer responsible for making the source available to you? I don't think so. If you buy the car from Avis when they're done renting it, at least one of them is obligated.

Re:XviD codec?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit! Good point. You better email Stallman, pronto!

The blogging applications of this are endless.

[CyricZ]

Such cameras will bring a new dimension to bloggery. The extreme portability of these cameras, often smaller than the smallest commercially available MP3 players, will allow people to document their everyday lives in a very visual way. It will take videobloggery to a new dimension: a teatherless webcam, of sorts.

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[btgreat]

Any camera that small has its uses.. I have a feeling a new wave of sextapes is going to flood the internet

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[FidelCatsro]

What we will need if this is going to occur is a peer review system , so those few brave pioneers with too much time on their hands can wade through the crap and find the pure quality so the rest of us can enjoy the good stuff.
lets call it voging (video web log) or vogoning (in tribute to hitchikers)

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[AndroidCat]

That'll go well with the new iSophagus.

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[xmod2]

My cell phone takes 30s grainy videos that I can upload to the web or email, as long as I have service. Seems a little more tetherless than having to find an internet capable box to post from.

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[myowntrueself]

"Made in Scotland from Girders , But im not Irn Bru"

The first time I actually heard a Scotsman say that "Made in Scotland from Girders" my response was "Girdles? Tastes more like its made from used panties!"

(Non Scots/Englanders will have to appreciate the Scottish accent to understand the confusion).

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[nonymous Covvard]

Because blogs aren't gay enough already.

Really, I don't care that the bitch at McDonalds gave you attitude, or how your day at work went, or your opinion on anything. And I definitely don't want to see the video.

The few blogs I can think of that are marginally useful (like http://www.artima.com/weblogs/index.jsp>Artima.com ) wouldn't benefit from video anyway.

Blogs are like personal webpages 10 years ago. For a little while, everyone had one. Then they realized other than 2 or 3 of their friends, nobody cared. I give blogs about a year before all the bloggers realize that the vast majority of people still don't care.

I just wish it'd hurry up and die. If I see another fucked up word like "videobloggery" I'm going to scream.

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[Anonymous Coward]

;) what i wear under my kilt is my own business :S oops you were joking um ignore my last statement and don't look at my underwear *Whistle*.
Fcat

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[justforaday]

Because blogs aren't gay enough already.

No kidding. I mean, I came across this one blog once that was just a whole ton of dorks sitting around talking about "penguins" (must be code for something) and "hacking" things...What a bunch of losers...

Re:The blogging applications of this are endless.

[Anonymous Coward]

The first time I actually heard a Scotsman say that "Made in Scotland from Girders" my response was "Girdles? Tastes more like its made from used panties!"

Do they say it like that in Scotland too? I thought the additive 'l' following word-final schwa was peculiar to the Bristol dialect (where "girdle" and "girder" really are homophones).

Article Text

[MooseGuy529]

Disposable Digital Camcorder Interfacing

Pure Digital's Single Use Camcorder for CVS

[PureDigital CVS camcorder]

Introduction
This web page is a little raw because I just got the camera and I'm leaving on a trip soon. So, I'll be brief and hopefully informative.

If you're not familiar with the camera, here is a good review.

Disassembly
Here's a photo gallery of the disassembly of my unit.

Similar in constructioon to the PV2, this unit is rugged and can be easily recycled.

Preliminary Analysis
Others found that pressing the Record and Delete buttons while turning on the camera yields a special diagnostic page. Mine said:

FW-VERSION: 03.40
CAMERA ID:
6B7051xxxxxx
PCB VER: B2

FLASH Memory Analysis NEW
I was able to get my videos out of the camera and onto my home computer by removing the 128MB flash memory chip and putting it into my home-built flash reader. I originally built the system for the PV2 camera -- here's some more info on it. The only modification I had to make was for the increased memory size of the new part. The reader is nothing special -- just a cheaper (and slower) version of comercially available units.

I've placed my analysis of the camcorder's flash memory on its own page. That page also has sample videos I have recovered from my camera.

Resources
The most current discussion that I follow is on the Camera Hacking message board. There is also discussion on Dakota PV2 discussion board.

contact me: my email address is my first name (john) at my last name (maushammer) dot com.

Is this legal? Yes.
Info on the original most recent still disposable digital camera
other systems I've played with
visit my homepage

Re:Article Text

[Skynyrd]

This web page is a little raw because I just got the camera and I'm leaving on a trip soon. So, I'll be brief and hopefully informative.

Yes it was brief.

Server's down.

Size does matter

[a_greer2005]

It may not be as good as an XL-2, but it is like 30$ and it weighs a couple of ounces v $4000 and 20 lbs...

Re:Size does matter

[connorbd]

You know what I'm thinking... the PureDigital 20-minute film festival. It'd be interesting to see what a good videographer can do with one of those things, and they're a great choice for kids.

Oh, the humanity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it really too much to ask that people know when to use JPEG and when to use PNG? The person behind this article ought to know, but... I mean, just look at it, it's the Screenshot From Hell.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[morcheeba]

I figured someone would criticize me. You're seeing low-res version for slashdot - sorry, bandwidth trumps aesthetics today. Tomorrow the pretty pictures will go back up.

Check the file sizes:
-rw-r--r-- 38000 Jun 24 21:09 PICT0001-info.png
-rw-r--r-- 13343 Jun 25 12:36 PICT0001-info.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 10958 Jun 25 12:38 camcorder-icon-full.jpg
-rw-r--r-- 2334 Jun 25 12:38 camcorder-icon.jpg
-rw-r----- 4547 Jun 25 13:02 index.html
-rw-r----- 23960 Jun 25 13:25 flash.html

My low-res pictures are 13k vs 38k, and 2.3k vs 11k. Overall, loading flash.html is 40k instead of 73k. That means (roughly) 80% more visitors for the same bandwidth!

I also tried GIF and TIFF - they were pretty close in size to the original PNG.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[Automattik]

Makes all the difference in everyone seeing it.......or not. Actually most people would have never thought to preserve bandwidth like that. As I predicted last night, you made /. quickly.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[Anonymous Coward]

>You're seeing low-res version for slashdot

Yeah, I'm seeing an ugly "low res" version for no good reason at all, that's what I'm seeing.

The only reason the PNG would be larger than the JPEG is if you're doing it wrong (for instance, not paletting the image where it wouldn't make a visible difference, or getting it dithered somewhere on the way to PNG by mistake, etc)

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[morcheeba]

Ha ha! Ok, you've shamed me into it! I reduced the palette to 32 colors and posted it as a png. It looks a lot better, thanks. It's also only 7628 bytes.

Apple had a lot of decoration in the window - antialiasing, plus textured background, plus multi-colored candy buttons that ate up colors. Normally I would have thought PNG would have been better, but guis are getting more picturesque all the time.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[anthony_dipierro]

That's awesome. I wish people's complaints to Congress would get solved this quickly.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great! Now everyone's happy.

Yeah, it's only going to get worse too, soon we'll have pixel-shaders 'animating' our GUIs :-\

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[Adult film producer]

love the nickname, just heard them on the local NPR station (live session, recorded a few years ago I think.) Think they were doing a song called Sao Paulo.. awsome stuff, she's got one hell of a voice.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[BlindJesse]

I get 7628 bytes for PICT0001-info.png, 13343 for PICT001-info.jpg

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[jkmiecik]

Proof or shut the fuck up.

I'm not being a jackass, I'm serious. PNG files just aren't practical for space-saving like the author is doing.

And if you want it done well so bad, DO IT YOUR DAMN SELF.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[morcheeba]

That was the original size .png. When I reduced the palette to 32, I got the smaller file you see. more info on this post. Good eye! Now, how can I reduce the size of flash.html? All I can see is removing the font re-definitions at the beginning of each line in the tables, but I don't know if Mozilla will like that when I try to edit the file again.

Re:Oh, the humanity.

[Anonymous Coward]

Look here you jerk. Feeling dumb now, aren't we? Fucking idiot!

anti-slash congratulates alan thicke

[10110100]

--
ALAN THICKE WEDS

US TV

LATEST: Beloved US TV dad ALAN THICKE married for the third time at the weekend (07MAY05) when he exchanged vows with 30-year-old TANYA CALLAU.

The former GROWING PAINS star, 58, and his new bride were married in a beach ceremony in Cabo San Lucas, northern Mexico.

The bride, groom and ushers all wore white, while Thicke's wedding band was the same one he wore on TV hit Growing Pains.

He explains, "My ring wasn't engraved on time."

Thicke's pop star son ROBIN performed at the reception.
--

Anti-slash salutes you!

Visualbloggery at the next level.

[CyricZ]

Indeed, like I said, this will take videobloggery to the next level. Yes, people will start posting on their blogs videos of themselves performing the sexual rites. That's just part of the liberalization of the youth of America and Europe. This is the technology that'll allow the social changes to bloom.

Re:Visualbloggery at the next level.

[Randseed]

Indeed, like I said, this will take videobloggery to the next level. Yes, people will start posting on their blogs videos of themselves performing the sexual rites. That's just part of the liberalization of the youth of America and Europe. This is the technology that'll allow the social changes to bloom.

Well, more free porn, I guess. We all know there isn't enough of that on the Internet now. :)

Re:Visualbloggery at the next level.

[JLF65]

Less than the day before with the new rule change on porn here in the states.

Re:Visualbloggery at the next level.

[Randseed]

My major problem with the "improper photography" laws, if that's what you're referring to, relates to the fact that it removes a defense that men are using for false rape allegations. (i.e., taping their sexual encounters then locking the things up in case some girl ever claims that she was raped.)

Re:Visualbloggery at the next level.

[coopex]

Man, I never thought of that. That's genius.

Max Zoran and Mayday are gonna get ya!

[pair-a-noyd]

Zoran Corporation
COACH
COACHWare 1.0
2002:01:13 12:06:00

Better call in 007 for protection on this one!

Re:Max Zoran and Mayday are gonna get ya!

[Anonymous Coward]

Zorin Enterprises actually. I have an employee t-shirt. green on white of course

Interesting..

[Thomas DM]

This will finally enable you to create your own cheap sextapes, without the chance that some curious CVS employee(s) will see your work..

Re:Interesting..

[jackcarter]

This will finally enable you to create your own cheap sextapes, without the chance that some curious CVS employee(s) will see your work..

And the fact that it only works for 30 seconds is perfect for Slashdot users!

Re:Interesting..

[Thomas DM]

It's 20 minutes - just enough for the foreplay ;)

Re:Interesting..

[mmkkbb]

OK, you're the second person I've seen say this. Where do you get "30 seconds"? That isn't mentioned in the article or in the summary. Perhaps you are misinterpreting 30fps?

Re:Interesting..

[jackcarter]

Oops. I remembered 30 seconds from the last /. article on this.

and then...

[game kid]

...some other dude would read /., get that hacker's tips, and point the Hubble at the Sun, ruining the fun for us all.

I hope not, 'cause NASA would kill me if they heard that I found a classified technique for downloading Hubble images to my CVS camc9waryv8at0 *muffled screaming as shotgun blasts*

What's wrong with shot-flavored?

[Anonymous Coward]

I flavor my milkshake and icecream with vodka shots and I like it.

link has been

[Anonymous Coward]

slashdotted

They already do

[oliverthered]

it's called happy slap

"a new craze amongst London youths: slapping random commuters in the face and filming the result on mobile phones with video cameras. The resulting 'Happy Slap TV' clips are then shared amongst friends (via MMS?), causing much hilarity."

ahh, the children of the children of thatcher.

Re:They already do

[FidelCatsro]

;) thatcher ruled from 1979-1990 , so there is a fair chance these are the children of thatcher still.
I myself shall never forgive the women for stealing my school milk , not to mention the poll-tax , the coal miners thing or most of her carrier .
but these are still most likely the children of thatcher , but could also be the children of the children of thatcher and the children of thatcher.

Re:They already do

[oliverthered]

I figure that there parents didn't make it much past the age of 13 before they conceived.

Re:They already do

[Anonymous Coward]

Betcha they wouldn't be doing that too much once one of them got blasted by someone carrying a legal concealed weapon, or perhaps eviscerated by some ninja in a business suit. Never know when one of them will flip out.

It'd serve 'em right, too.

Re:They already do

[inode_buddha]

Never mind weapons. A couple hundred pounds of pissed-off guy should do it.

On Sale in two weeks

[Cow4263]

As a current CVS employee, I can tell you that these camcorders and their digital camera like brethren are going on sale the week of July 4th. They are going to be 19.99 but you get $10 in "ExtraBucks" back. As the ad flyer says, "Its like paying $9.99".

The ExtraBucks print from the register 2 days after the qualifiying purchase and although you do need your own ExtraCare card, the information you provide can be as false as possible. ExtraBucks are good on anything in the store excluding tobacco, alcohol and prescriptions.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont think this was offtopic.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[AndroidCat]

ExtraBucks are good on anything in the store excluding tobacco, alcohol and prescriptions.

But that doesn't leave anything! Hmmm .. wait, chocolate!

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Reaperducer]

although you do need your own ExtraCare card

Do I really, or can I use the cashier's? Yesterday at CVS I told the checkout guy that the dog ate my card, and he just scanned his.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Richard_at_work]

Lubricant and condoms.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[NeoSkandranon]

You can get alcohol at CVS?

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[cbr2702]

And then he gets the "ExtraBucks"

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Leebert]

Ironically, I just spent Friday and Saturday of this weekend on my side job upgrading a bunch of Pure Digital workstations at CVS locations in NJ with DVD-R drives.

I was wondering how long this would take. :)

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe, ironically, you can spend Sunday in a bookstore, searching for the definition and good examples of irony.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Dahan]

Yup, NyQuil brand!

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[ZosX]

You forget who you are replying to. Clearly condoms would be first one my mind, but for this guy, he's just worried about the damned chocolate and beer. Clearly a case of mixed up priorities.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[ZosX]

Yeah, it's like that alanis moronissette song where everything she sings about has nothing to do with irony at all. Amazing what people listen to these days.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Photon Ghoul]

Amazing what people listen to these days

I hate to break it to you but that song was released ten years ago. In the pop world that's an 'oldie' and not what people listen to today.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[ZosX]

How true. Has it really been 10 years? Man. Time flies indeed!

The sad thing is that Alanis was a whole lot better than the garbage people are listening to today. I tune into an alternative station and the rock that is coming out these days is so bad it makes me want to cry. Since most things on the rock side of music have been done to death by the late 70s and early 80s (even punk was dead by then) I can appreciate the lack of new frontiers to pursue, but this crap that is coming out now all just sounds like a wannabe Linkin Park (I hate them too) or Radiohead or whatever else is the flavour of the weak. I won't even get into all the NIN and Marilyn Mason wannabes out there.

Even hip hop isn't all that great anymore. Top put it in the words of the GZA, its all just R&B, Rap and Bullshit. I guess I've always just preferred the old skool.

I do like some of the new electronica that is coming out (Boards of Canada, Squarepusher, Autechre, etc), but I really wish that someone would push electronic envelope a bit more. Jazz with breakbeats? Funk with jungle beats. I wish more people would think outside of the 4/4 box.

Anyways, I'll quit rambling and bitching and go back to listening to some Meat Beat Manifesto. Jack Dangers always has a way of putting a smile on my face. I could listen to 99% and a few others a million more times. :)

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[AndroidCat]

Dude, alcohol and chocolates are lubricants.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't tell him about the methamphetamines.

Re:On Sale in two weeks

[tehwebguy]

howabout next time you go in for upgrades you steal a unit for us to use? juuuuust kiddinggggg

Good thing this person isn't in high school

[anthony_dipierro]

He might have gotten charged with a felony.

Re:Good thing this person isn't in high school

[m50d]

That comment is made infinitely funnier by your sig

Re:Good thing this person isn't in high school

[anthony_dipierro]

In case you don't know, that's a quote from hemos, followed shortly by CmdrTaco saying "I wish people wouldn't steal."

Light, breakable cameras

[Council]

A use for hacking disposable cameras: They're disposable. That is, they're cheap enough that if you break them, you haven't lost much. That's useful for this kind of thing:

http://www.xkcd.com/kite/

I was so confident of my engineering skill and my insistence on multiple safety measures that I sent my nice, $150 digital camera up the kite line. It worked for a few hours after the 70-foot fall, but hasn't since.

Re:Light, breakable cameras

[Quarters]

A use for hacking disposable cameras: They're disposable. That is, they're cheap enough that if you break them, you haven't lost much.

A good use for redundant statements: They're redundant. That is, if you say the same thing two or three different ways, they still all convey the same message.

Re:Light, breakable cameras

[Council]

I couldn't have said it better three times myself.

Re:Light, breakable cameras

[Anonymous Coward]

A good use for redundant statements: They're redundant. That is, if you say the same thing two or three different ways, they still all convey the same message.

Oh, poor baby has to look at a bit of grain

[Anonymous Coward]

Not everyone has time to bother with that shit. Stop your bitching.

Green Hills, oh irony!

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA:
And there are plenty of strings!

Here are some clues about tools used to build the project:

Copyright (c) 1996-2001 Express Logic Inc. * ThreadX LX4180/Green Hills Version G4.0.4.0 *
G-GB-GL-M-D-DL-KML-CMR-HMR-ML2-GZ-KH2-CM-RP-TC- NH- TD-AP-HA-GF-DD-AT-MF-MS-DW-USA-CA-SD-SDSU

Copyright (c) 1996-2004 Express Logic Inc. * FileX LX4180/Green Hills Version G3.1a.3.1a *


I find ironical that the reverse engineered firmware was built using tools from the same Green Hills Software that spread that FUD about Linux not so long ago.

Prepositions are your friends

[edittard]

someone shipping him one FedEx

That's nothing, last week somebody shipped me two UPSs. What's more, they shipped them by FedEX, how funny is that? At least as funny as timothy's concept of English grammar, it seems.

WTF is CVS?

[mike.newton]

Sure I could Google it, but my point is that I don't know what CVS cameras are, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. An explanatory link like this one would be nice.

For the rest of us, CVS is a chain of pharmacies, they're selling a small, locked, one-time use digital video camera for $30 and charging $13 to get the data off it and onto DVD.

Re:WTF is CVS?

[Anonymous Coward]

They're for taking CVS snapshots.

Re:WTF is CVS?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank God someone finally said it.

Re:WTF is CVS?

[Anonymous Coward]

original message follows this WTF comment:
"Slashdot requires you to wait between each successful posting of a comment to allow everyone a fair chance at posting a comment.

It's been 6 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment"

WHAT THE FUCK?
-----------
original message:
i dont know about the person who submitted this article but maybe, if hes like me, he forgets not everyone knows what CVS is

ive been going to CVS since i was a child, it's all we have

it wasnt until a few years ago when id see commercials that i found out what a walgreens is (even though we dont have any), and theres some other big pharmacy chain ive never heard of but its mentioned in a prank call at blackout.com

Re:WTF is CVS?

[kosmicki]

Walgreens had $37 billion in sales last year, and opened 436 new stores. Currently they have 4,805 locations. Founded in 1901. Sorta suprised you had not heard of them. They are pretty big.

Re:WTF is CVS?

[MNJavaGuy]

Sir, you owe me a new monitor. That was too good :)

Re:WTF is CVS?

[hilaryduff]

imagine the whining if a uk site posted something like "boots camera hacked" on a World Wide Web site.

Re:WTF is CVS?

[kent_eh]

And, since CVS appears to be a USA only chain, is anyone else in the rest of the world selling this type of camera?

Re:WTF is CVS?

[unitron]

CVS is what they re-named what I'd been calling Revco for a quarter century. I'm sure they did it just to annoy me.

Spell "shit" properly, fuckwit.

[Anonymous Coward]

That asterisk isn't helping anybody.

CVS sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

CVS sucks hardcore.

Worked at one for nine months. Made me never want to work at a pharmacy.

Think about it. Why do most people come to CVS? To pick up their medication and/or their make-up.

In short, most people who shop at CVS are middle-aged nutcase mothers who have nothing better to do than argue with me for 30 minutes on an expired 30 cent coupon she feels she's entitled to use.

Re:CVS sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

how is that a troll? it's a serious question

im recently unemployed and theres a cvs nearby and if, for some strange reason, employees dont get sick there, i may apply

jesus christ i should start metamodding

Re:CVS sucks

[anubi]

Since you are AC, and I don't feel like I am correcting anyone by name in public, I'd like to comment on something that you typed, but you by far are not an isolated case. This is a paradigm dreamed up by some marketing "think outside the box" type that annoys the hell out of me.

"In short, most people who shop at CVS are middle-aged nutcase mothers who have nothing better to do than argue with me for 30 minutes on an expired 30 cent coupon she feels she's entitled to use."

There is another topic currently being discussed on Slashdot regarding Customer Service .

That lady may have good reason to argue with you over a 30 cent coupon. Apparently CVS has been paying you enough you don't have to worry about every cent. Your customer obviously is having financial problems.

CVS was apparently willing to give her the benefit of the coupon at one time, why not now? Why is CVS forcing her to prostitute herself to you over thirty cents? Could it be the people who dream up all these games to play with their customers to be so well paid they have no idea that other people may not be so fortunate as to have such a well-paying career?

Personally, I would not have argued with her so much and gave her the benefit of the coupon, and personally taken it on myself to put it up the chain of how much frustration and anger amongst your customers ( as YOU see the Customer, not THEM!!! ) they are causing by coupon trickery.

Game Playing by Businesses ranks very high on my pet peeves of dealing with Business... and is also the number one reason I check Wal Mart for anything I need first. Yes, I will plug Wal Mart as they are one of the few businesses that don't make me feel like a nut for shopping there. You know, the old "I'm sorry, Sir, you don't have Our Club Card... the stated price is only for insiders - and you are not one... for you its ten dollars more" kinda shit. In my case, the Club Card was the quickest way to coax me out of their business and into Wal Mart.

It has been my observation that Club Cards are for businesses who have graduated beyond providing a service or product for their customer base and are now in the business of collecting marketing and demographic data. I do not go to a marketing analysis firm to buy a garden hose or a loaf of bread.

Re:CVS sucks

[poisoneleven]

While I too shop at Walmart for not requiring club cards to get normal pricing, they have one of the most sophisticated data collection systems around. Their ability to spot trends is remarkable, and while I'm not certain that they keep track of who buys what, be certain that if you use plastic, they are more than capable of doing so.

Re:CVS sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

While CVS uses the card to track whatever purchases you make, you don't even need to fill out paperwork on a card. I just took my card from by the register and even though I never filled anything out, it works fine. Also usually with card scanning places (except for say Costco)you can just say hey I forgot my card "my bad" and they will just scan one for you. Take that Big Brother

Re:CVS sucks

[ShinmaWa]

I'm not certain that they keep track of who buys what, be certain that if you use plastic, they are more than capable of doing so.

They could, but they don't. To be honest, the cost/benefit on it just isn't worth it. The challenge of correlating purchases with individuals is so low-fidelity and ultimately so worthless (to them) that it just doesn't make sense to do it.

Wal-Mart deals in macro trend analysis. They record every single purchase made at any of their stores. Specifically, they not only record what was bought, but most importantly, what else what bought with it.

The actions of individual customers mean absolutely nothing to them. They simply do not work at that level. What Wal-Mart is interested in is the collective actions of thousands and millions of customers as a whole and they have a data warehouse that the Pentagon would be proud of to mine that information from.

Re:CVS sucks

[DiscoSnorlax]

Specifically, they not only record what was bought, but most importantly, what else what bought with it.

I wonder what they would corrolate from the time I bought 3 bags of Funyuns, 4 2-liter bottles of generic store-brand Mountain Dew, a bag of gummi bears, a bag of Pixie Stix, a cheap horror movie, and a couple of discount-bin Carebears DVDs all in one purchase one night...??

Re:CVS sucks

[BandwidthHog]

I was so with you on the the virtues of customer service (especially about the card bullshit) until you suggested that taking your business to WalMart was the answer. I understand where you're coming from, but find that to be so very short sighted. Following this to its logical (although not necessarily inevitable) conclusion, when there's only WalMart, how high a priority do you expect customer service to be?

Re:CVS sucks

[anubi]

I know my reference to Wal Mart is flammatory, as my Marketing professor in College claims to hate their practices with a purple passion.

Here, my Marketing professor is showing us many ways of using "promotional tools" and "lock-in" techniques of couponing, bundling, contigencies, and spin-doctoring the whole shebang so it sounds good.

I see through it and am infuriated. I hate it when marketers do these things to me in the store.

Dammit, I come into the store with money and I want a roll of toilet paper, and I am in absolutely no mood to play games and get charged more for not playing.

Its especially infuriating to me to see all these people who have inserted themselves into the flow so as they don't produce a thing, they just get in the way of my getting what I want, and even get paid ( as part of the product price I end up paying ) to do this.

Its also infuriating to be the guy behind the person who lengthens line wait time negotiating coupons. You know, its like the person at a traffic signal that doesn't go when cleared because they they are taking care of other business at the time. On the road, its customary to honk, but how do you handle line hangups over negotiation of needless deliberately-created pricing anamolies?

My feeling is if a merchant thinks so little of my dollar and so much of the expiration dates and conditions of his coupons, go ahead and let him print up, distribute, sort, verify, whatever to the thouseands of little slips of paper we are all supposed to hoard and redeem, let him play his little "businessman" game,,, while I go somewhere else cause I have a roll of toilet paper to buy.

I know there are companies out there who search through public discussion posts such as Slashdot to garner public reaction to business trends.

My main point of posting is to try to reach those people and get my statistic in, as I can't do anything to steer business if I can't give them feedback. I have used some specific company names to trigger their data-mining bots. Hopefully, if my pleas are mentioned in a Professional Marketing Research Report, Paid for by Business, it will be taken more seriously than the whining of a customer who is probably never returning.

Re:CVS sucks

[BandwidthHog]

I agree with you fully on every point above. I haven't carried any of those obnoxious little "loyalty cards" on my keychain for years, and simply refuse to buy the products for which I would be charged more. I've got two grocery stores across the street from each other. If Harris Teeter requires the use of a "loyalty card" to pay the real price for steaks this week, I'll buy them at Lowe's Foods (most of my grocery trips involve hitting both stores anyway). If both stores require the use of a "loyalty card" to pay regular price for steaks that week, then I'll have fish for dinner.

Coupons don't offend me nearly as much, but neither do I use them.

I think we agree on 98% of this stuff. The only area where we differ is whether or not it is "ethically" appropriate to take one's business to WalMart instead. I contend that it's not, because although it's nice that they don't use those particular tactics, everything else about their business practices far outweighs the marketing games that other stores play.

But all that aside, I commend you for voting with your feet and your wallet. Of the small minority of people who do bitch about these things, the vast majority of *them* just lay there and take it anyway.

Re:CVS sucks

[anubi]

You do have a quite valid point on a lot of WalMart's practices... I have heard that they are tough-as-nails on their suppliers. I don't know enough facts to nail them on anything, but I have heard stories down the line of WalMart claiming, say, 10% of product shipped as being defective and witholding payment as such. The truth is somewhere in between, as I have seen WalMart's customers "ripping off WalMart" in the same way by bringing merchandise home, damaging it, then returning it. It's likely WalMart is just passing the loss up the line. This is *really* debatable...

It seems like Fedco, Gemco, and Costco started all this "Club Card" stuff... then it caught on and it seemed every grocery store in town insisted we carry their card... Ralph's, Vons, Albertson's - the big chains. As each store became a Card store, I shifted my business to other stores that did not require The Card.

There are now three large grocery stores in town left that do not require these cards. Stater Brothers Grocery, Big Saver Foods, and WalMart.

Of the remaining non-Card requiring stores, WalMart is closest to me, but to get there, I drive past the Ralph's, Von's, and Albertson's.

I just kept going further and further out as each merchant became a Card Merchant. I made an ass of myself just one time at each business location, noisily whining my displeasure at being charged "outsider" prices - especially at the Albertson's store when they did it - as I had been shopping there for about twenty years.

I had to realize that my patronage isn't what they wanted, it was my obedience to their demand that I carry their card. You know, out of force of habit, I still find myself pulling into the Albertson's parking lot before I suddenly remember I can't shop there anymore without paying "outsider price". I pull out and proceed on to WalMart.

I was quite happy with the previous three stores, but I was not gonna stand for having to carry walletfuls of cards and paraphanalia just to avoid surcharges for not doing so, when other stores would simply sell me what I wanted without playing games with me. If I am not careful, I can easily end up with 30 to 100 cards in my wallet! Just to be allowed to buy at the WalMart everyday price. WalMart just gets the business the other stores, by their pricing tactics, said they didn't want!

So, I figure all the "little old ladies" can gather around the Cash Register like the sewing circles of old, and negotiate coupons, rebates, Card Prices, and whatever. I figure its a modern-day reincarnation of Bingo as a way to involve much negotiation over a trivial matter as purchasing a roll of toilet paper. I take it as a given that if I'm not gonna jump through all those 'Simon Says' hoops, they are gonna ding me pretty hard.

If their "Club Card Price" with double couponing adjustments is right around the same as the WalMart price, why even mess with the Card and coupons? Why are all these "outsiders" - who have absolutely nothing to do with the manufacture or logistics of the products I want to buy - allowed to insert themselves into the sales procedure? Why does the merchant - who supposedly understands he is in business to fulfill his customer's need for his products - allow these guys to hinder that process?

Sam Walton seems to be one of a dying breed who knows what his customers want, and gets it for us.

Site is slowing... here's a Coral Link

[WoTG]

Link
Hmm... I'm really starting to like Coral.

Re:Site is slowing... here's a Coral Link

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like Coral mirrors too.. cept all my /. reading as work and 8090 isn't getting out of this firewall.

Site seems slashdotted, Here's the article text...

[Anonymous Coward]

fucking lameness filter wont let me post it, fine fuck you, heres some random shit i was trying to use to defeat the filter but it failed but i might as well post it anyway,assholes!!

---
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Mod Up

[Baricom]

An excellent question. Even if they do format it, there's still the question if the data is still there. I don't know enough about flash technology, but on magnetic disks a format just overwrites the tracking information, not the data itself.

Regardless of whether they're formatting, I have a feeling they're not doing a security wipe.

PXL

[QuietRiot]

Please. Do tell.

I used to have a few friends down the street with one. I don't think they ever really fully appreciated it. My first impression was : "Wow. On audio tape. Audio tape."

Re:PXL

[Jafafa Hots]

Well, the wild stories I will keep to myself at least for a while, I don't know who might be adversely affected by my telling them. I will tell you, though, that there were pre-recorded PXL videos set to be released, and also a color version... other stuff too, but sales were disappointing (after the initial press) so these products never made it to market. I still have several PXLs and a PXL TV kicking around that I got from the product service dept. (I loaded up the basement, attic and garage with FP goodies over the years, have been selling them off as my "retirement fund."

Dialects

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Evidently, nothing is sacred anymore. Not even grammatical rules against double negatives in the English language.

Unlike French, the English language does not have a standards body.

"Standard English" is a particular regularization of a particular dialect (from the US east coast quite some time back), foisted on children continent-wide by an educational establishment. It qualifies as merely one of the regional dialects. (Granted it's a widespread one thanks to the institutional support, as well as to its origin within, and use by, a region with a lot of money and power.) Claiming there is one "correct" English usage and this is it is an example of provincialism.

A number of regional dialects of American English use the double-negative as an intensifier, rather than forbidding it or using it in the mathematical sense of reinverting the sign to restore the positive.

Re:Dialects

[__aaclcg7560]

Unlike French, the English language does not have a standards body.

Isn't BBC English the official world-wide version of English today? Or has BBC English been replaced with Voice Of America English?

LOL! Rants against bloggery are always funny.

[CyricZ]

I always find it funny when people post rants about bloggery. Your whole point is that you don't care what others think, you don't think others should care what others think, and yet you post as if you think people to care about what you think.

Sssh, I can hear DHS agents kicking down your door

[Anonymous Coward]

Aerial photographs? Ooo, you must be a terrorist planning your bombing campaign? I ask you, people of the jury, can you conceive of any legitimate reason to put a camera on a kite?

lacks logic, not grammer

[screwthemoderators]

I know you were going for Funny, but since no one else has pointed this out, a double negative is acceptable in English, it just rarely makes sense. And also that wasn't really an example of a double negative, since "nothing" is a noun and it is part of a question. Is not nothing sacred? No, "nothing" is still sacred, or you could respond Yes, nothing is no longer sacred, but something is. A Buddhist might tell you nothingness is sacred. So there!

Way to go...

[John Nowak]

You show those big businesses like CVS! Take your business to WalMart!

Re:Way to go...

[anubi]

I only state this here on Slashdot, because as a public blogging area, it lets customers like me give one last bit of feedback to many businesses.

Once they run me out of their stores, they never hear from me again.

I always hear businesses complain that Wal Mart kills their business. As a former customer of many of those businesses I hear complaining, I only wanted to say why, because I often never go in their stores anymore.

Example, I haven't been to a Sav-On drugs now in years... and it was a prime place for me at one time - until they got on this Albertson's Preferred Card bandwagon. I walked in there one day, tried to buy some batteries as I picked up a prescription, and noted the price was a buck higher than normal, but if I used the Card, it was back at normal price. Mental Note: Next time I'm in Wal Mart for catfood, check the battery price. Yup. The old price Sav-On used to charge me. Action: Get batteries at WalMart and check prices of prescription medicine at the WalMart pharmacy so if they are the same price it is at Sav-On, then if I move my prescription refills over to Wal-Mart, this will completely eliminate trips to Sav-On to pick up just one item. It was. Done. Sav-On is now completely out of my picture. They are now another non-descript building I pass by on the way to Wal Mart.

I still get my batteries, and my prescriptions filled.

And the important highly paid executive of Sav-On got his hand shook by an important Marketing Professional that convinced him of the value of forcing his customers to play unwanted games.

If Sav-On wants me back, they now have to wait for Sam Walton to screw up and drive away his customer base.

What it takes to drive a customer away - often forever - may be nothing more than an argument over a 30 cent coupon that expired yesterday.

What it takes to GET a customer is a completely different story. I can say customers are a lot harder to get than they are to run away, as you have to coax them away from where they are doing business now.

The companies marketing all this club card and coupon apparatus make it their business to target well-paid corporate executives who are not likely to relate with their customer base, which has nowhere near their level of income. They know how a corporate-level guy is likely to really underestimate the value of his customer base, and consider it just another expendible tool to be used as an economic prybar. They know we want a roll of toilet paper, so they start making us jump through hoops to get it.

Its my belief that most of the executive types that make these decisions are so high up the corporate ladder that they no longer hear the anguished cry of some poor woman pleading with some sales clerk over a 30 cent coupon.

this is awesome!

[vsigma]

Finally!

As a teacher - I can a buy a bunch of these and use them in class for projects!!! I can give them to my students and don't feel absolutely mortified that they'll kill something. As the article says, the quality is not awesome, but for some of the kids who don't even have access to this stuff - it'll be a great hands on learning tool..

Can't wait to buy these the week of july 4th!

I prefer the term "videobloggery".

[CyricZ]

I prefer the term "videobloggery", because it offers a very descriptive description of what the activity itself is. "Voging" sounds like something you do when watching Madonna's Vogue music video.

Re:I prefer the term "videobloggery".

[FidelCatsro]

blogging sounds like something you do when you have trench foot though ;)
We could use Video Diary , Video diarist , much more universal

Step By Step Guide?

[traxxton]

So is there a step by step guide out yet?

I haven't heard of them either

[jgoemat]

But I live in Iowa. The closest store to me is in Missouri. You can check yourself to find the closest store to you.

MOD PARENT -1: GENERATION GAP

[Anonymous Coward]

everything you mention is 10 years old, or sounds like it.

FedEx---huh?

[Grendel Drago]

I get FedEx packages left at my door by (gasp!) making a five-minute phone call to the FedEx company and asking the package to be left behind the screen door at my house.

You did know you could do that, right? Right?

--grendel drago

Hey, that's a new one on me!

[Grendel Drago]

Well, that's novel.

She: What the fuck?
He: Uh, I see you've stumbled onto my vast drawer full of amateur porn.
She: You've been taping us? Taping ME?!
He: Yes, you see---
She: YOU SICK FUCK!
He: ---it's in case you turn out to be a psycho and accuse me of raping you.
She: Oh. Well, I can totally understand that, and have no desire whatsoever to stab you in the balls with a knitting needle.
He: Thanks, sweetie. You're the best.

--grendel drago