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Microsoft's 10-year-old Certified Professional
idigjazz writes "Meet Arfa, a promising young software programmer from Faisalabad, Pakistan, who is believed to be the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in the world. She received the certification when she was 9. During a recent meeting with Bill Gates, she presented him with a poem she wrote that celebrated his life story."
Either the kid is really bright, or if a nine year old can pass them, what value is there?
WTF? Over?
she will feel like she wasted her life.
In the article, the girl says (regarding the lack of women in MS)
"It should be balanced -- an equal amount of men and an equal amount of women," she explained afterward.
I think in any job the only people who should be there are those that have proven their worth.
This OTT political correctness/quota balancing act in lots of workplaces is just dumb.
liqbase
Kids are intelligent being, with very high learning abilities. Unfortunately the school system sucks (especially in the US). I'm not surprised that a kid can catch quickly on programming languages. They share many characteristics with natural languages, such as recursivity (talking about the syntax, not recursion as a programming technic), this is a great age to learn these things. She had the chance to have a great education. Education is extremly beneficial to economy but on a long term and thus is generally not a big concern for poilitics.
\u262D = \u5350
So a kid took the exam and passed. Did every kid in the world get a chance to take the exam? No. For every one of these stories there must be a hundred kids who think "I could have done that, why didn't I get the chance?". Maybe I could have taken my exams a couple of years early. Maybe you could have handled that big project better than the guy they gave it to. The fact is, these situations owe more to circumstance - if we were all given these opportunities, stories like this would be a two a penny.
What a coincidence. I spent the day interviewing people for a sysadmin job at my work. We had this one guy (with terrible body odour) who had loads of "certificates" ... but he could barely answer any of our questions except by re-phrasing them and saying them back to us. He didn't get hired - but he had so many certificates from "training colleges"
No-one hires someone just because they can obtain a certificate. I bet you could train a monkey to get a Micr0$oft Cert1ficat3 - but you still wouldn't hire them or give them a position of authority and responsibility.
The fact that a 10yr old child can obtain a Microsoft Certificate means that it's no indication of total worth as a software developer or employee.
But what good is a certification in Logo? I guess coding for Windows beats making shoes for Nike.
Maybe they're getting them this young so someone's ready to work on the Y3K problem?
Start a happiness pandemic
What a worthless comment.
The article was an insightful look at life through the eyes of a very brave young woman growing up in a society that does not offer many opportunities for women.
Having written a calculator and a sorting program in C# along with earning her MCAD, I consider Arfa a computer programmer by any definition.
Arfa has demonstrated considerable creativity, imagination, hard work and considerable drive. I'll gladly give up your job for her to find good work =p
MCAD Requirements and Training Resources
From the point of view of adult programmers an MCAD may not count for a lot, and Microsoft may be a nasty company, but this is still an impressive little girl with an interesting story. There aren't a lot of nine year olds who can write C#. That's a good bit harder than some baby Basic, if for no other reason than the detail that you have to take care of and the object-orientation. And not very many nine year olds have the interest and dedication to pursue something like this.
Its also important to realize that this is a little girl in a country that gives very few opportunities to women, especially women who are not from the upper class. According to the article, her dad is a soldier. It doesn't sound like she comes from a wealthy, powerful family. So, while getting this certificate may well not make her a genius, it does make her a smart and persistent little girl who has done something quite unusual not only for her age but, in her country, for her gender. I say good for her, good for her family for encouraging her rather than telling her not to act unladylike, and good for Microsoft for giving her the trip. (But if I were in charge at Microsoft, I would have thrown in a stop at Disneyland.)
Also, could this kid kiss Bill's ass just a little more? Wrote a poem celebrating his life's history? Are you fucking yanking my dick here? And they seem to gloss by her being a "computer programmer". What, because she made a little clicky-thingy in LOGO?
Might not be a big deal to you, however, for a girl that young in a third world country, such as Pakistan, it certainly is. She was bought over to the US (first time her father and her left Pakistan) and everything was probably paid for. So she was showing her appreciation. It isn't everyday a young child from Pakistan gets to come to the U.S., and especially on a trip paid for by the world's richest man.
However, if she is eager to start hacking away, and Microsoft won't hire her now, she should be encouraged to contribute to the Open Source community - even on a Windows project. That way, she will learn not only how to code more, but also learn how to interact with developers across the globe. That, at that very young age, will surely look extremely impressive and will teach her infinite things.
She passes a microsoft exam grown adults have failed and she manages to kiss up to a billionaire at age 9.
o toID=69691
t arfa14.html
Heres a photo of her.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/photos/photo.asp?Ph
and heres an article
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/232514_msf
Before you call her a kissass realize she actually
asked intelligent questions such as why there werent more women at microsoft(before the snarky comments remember she is a 9 year old girl speaking up for equality in a nation like Pakistan) and told a Microsoft VP her vision for self-navigating car.
You have to realize for a little geek girl in a country like Pakistan going to Microsoft is like
going to a paradise where everything works and people are smart just like her.
If you check out her photo, in another 10-15
years she is going to be a major geek hottie...
so be nice and not be pricks!
This is just a reminder to all us geeks who love to bash people from that part of the world...
Pakistan and india are the only two countries that I know of where many of the geeks are women who are good looking and its considered a good thing to be living with your parents as an adult until you are married...think about it!
While it is certainly a large amount of stuff to know, you can basically just play the memorization game. I've met so many people that used to be mechanics, car salesmen etc, that have MCSE's and are completely useless working with computers. Most signed up during the .com "Make $90k a year as a certified professional!" and had hardly used computers for more then email before. In my opinion these certifications are pretty useless. Just because I passed Calc 3 and Physics back in college by memorizing some rules doesn't mean I remember a damn thing about them now.
Seriously, it's braindead simple. The article is a beat up and sounds far far better than it is.
Most 15 year old kids with a bit of interest in computing could pass an MCP after doing the equivalent work of decent school computer studies classes. By the way the article is written it sounds like she's done the equivalent of an doctorate degree by age 10.
Not to put her down as a dope though. She's done well, and her achievements have marked her as one of the smarter tech kids out there.
Surely it's not bad that the kid got the cert. That just shows the level of the certificate - and its worth. If you hire a guy who claims to be a computer professional and supports this claim with such a certificate, you can bet he's a liar and a moron, because even 9yo kid can learn all that - and that's certainly NOT enough to pass as "pro".
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
This falls in nicely with the overall MS strategy. They no doubt hope to integrate learning about MS software and applications into infants school right there alongside the three R's as part of a basic preparation for adult life....(a bit like they integrate other people's 'applications' into Windows)
Joking aside, how long before some enterprising MSerf makes a serious suggestion along those lines ? Am I alone in being a little worried about that ?
If your false arguement was true, surely EVERY 9yo would have one?
Surely the most logical answer is that there is something exceptional in these circumstances (kid or parents) rather than something with the certification? To falsely claim otherwise does nothing but show you up for fanboi tendancies.
There's a 13yo somewhere with a masters degree - therefore everyone with a masters degree is a braindead moron.
Your logic is severely flawed by your bias.
I've formerly held an MCSE certification (expired with Windows NT 4.0), currently hold MCSD (on the Visual Basic 6 track) and also currently hold MCDBA (on the SQL Server 2000 track).
I find there are in general two ways to study for the tests (each with variations):
1. Aquire some real world experience, study the material, maybe take some practice tests (like Transcender) and then take the real tests. 2. Go to www.braindumpcentral.com and find the questions and answers that will be on the test and memorize them, then take the real tests.
If she went path #1, it's fairly impressive. Though I think back to when I was 10 and programming proficiently in 6502 assembly and Commodore BASIC on my C-64 and I realize that children of that age aren't actually incompetent.
I'm a big tall mofo.
You're comparing writing a symphony to getting your MCSE?
I was writing my own games on Sinclair Spectrum basic when I was 6. Does this make me a wunderkind programmer? No, just a bored sysadmin who is stuck at the mentality of basic and can't really progress beyond his shell scripts. That's why I'm affraid she's only going to be somewhat above-average secretary when she grows up.
"As a result, this produces people who, for instance, are certified for MS Exchange, but don't know much about SMTP -- they just know Exchange."
That is probably exactly what Microsoft wants.
Really though, I wonder what type of house-hold she lives in, and how she got involved with the whole Microsoft certification. Surely it's not as easy over there as it is here.
It would be interesting if they were teaching it in schools over seas. Talk about blowing our economy out of the water.
Time is comparison of movement to other movement.
Mozart was recognized as a genius through general consensus over time and through direct exposure to his works, not by a rigid test drafted by a corporation.
If you recall, there have already been cases of very young kids acing the college board tests, due to very careful tutoring and memorization. Having taken the MS tests, i can hardly imagine that approach wouldnt work if done well enough.
Not to discredit the kid, this is an accomplishment certainly, which indicates atbest a very strong computer aptitude and at worst a very very good memory, both of which are extremely useful skills. But i hardly compare this with mozart.
I have never been so ashamed of being part of the slashdot community as I am now.
Taking away any credit of her accomplishment because she took a Microsoft certification is just plain vile and stupid.
Cheers,
Adolfo
Not to incite a flame war or anything, but to me, a 10 year-old kid getting their MS certification somewhat devalues the certification (see, it's so easy that a kid can get it). True, she may be an incredibly gifted child, but pointing and clicking in MS Word is hardly a brain drain.
The article says she earned a "Microsoft Certified Application Developer" certification, and that she programmed a calculator in C#.
I don't know C#.
This isn't your average nine year old.
Or maybe she is, and we just don't give nine year olds enough credit.
In any case, she did something very cool, and we shouldn't be trying to tear down a little girl to make ourselves feel a bit less like the discontented band of underachievers that we really are. Instead, we should be congratulating her, and encouraging her to get some Linux certifications under her belt.
You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!
I don't think It needed a 10 year old kid to devalue it. I think MCPs/MCSEs are doing a good job devaluting themselves.
Here in London, every second street has a 'acredited training centre' which after 4 days of 'intensive' (read, mind numbing) training, they guarantee that anyone can get their MCP. Combine that with Microsoft setting the pass value at ~60% correct answers, and you've got a pretty much useless qualification. I've worked with many MCSEs and only a handful of them actually knew their Kerberos' from their SMBs.
What our industry needs is a cross platform Chartership program, that other professions have. Something that you have to work towards over a period of years. Something that will actually mean something at the top of your CV.
-Jar.
Together, We Can Make Slashdot Better. I Do NOT Mod ACs. - Check Me Out
Last time I checked, being married wasn't a guarantee to get any regularly.
On the other hand, being a multibillionaire probably means he can be Lewinski'd instead of masturbating.
Think I shall have to concurr with this, with over 15 years of experience of in the computing industry the smartest peopel I have worked with have very little MCP qualification, and some of the most inept have MCSE's . Just goes to show that anyone can read a book and learn it but if they cannot make 2+2=5 they will just be another goat in the herd. What I would like to see is more weight given to references from trusted sources, a bit like the linkedin websites. As for the 10 year old , it shows that age has nothing to do with intelligence and ability when it comes to MS certs, its pretty easy to google for 'assistance' :), if she was a 90 year old there would not even be a post ..
Which is hardest to surrender
It's more interesting because it was submitted this time by CowboyNeal.
Don't you know how things work here at Slashdot? Despotism at it's best.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
It is this attitude that is responsible for the sorry state of education in this country (USA). The vice principal of our high school infamously remarked that students such as myself would learn "by themselves in a dark closet with a flashlight." Perhaps intended as a compliment, but used to justify cutting programs for students who were motivated and wanted to learn so that the resources could be spent on bringing "making everyone above average."
It is simply not the case that everyone has the same potential. You cannot make those with lesser abilities equal to those with greater abilities, unless you are willing to try to drag down those with the greater abilities, and sadly it seems that this is becoming more and more the modus operandi. This is tragic, because those minds are our most vital natural resource; we are plundering them for the purchase of a tiny slice of equality that does little but make us feel good.
All this in an environment where people love to bitch about the quality of education, but don't pay teachers what they are worth and expect endless hours out of them.
Are teachers professionals or not? They want to be treated like professionals and paid like professionals, but they don't seem to want to be held accountable like professionals or work long, hard hours like professionals. People might be willing to pay much more for good teachers if the teachers' unions didn't make them subsidize poor teachers at the same time.
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Gates didn't start donating money until he developed a reputation as an asshole. That isn't kindness, it's public relations without hiring a PR firm.
Not to incite a flame war or anything, but to me, a 10 year-old kid getting their MS certification somewhat devalues the certification (see, it's so easy that a kid can get it). True, she may be an incredibly gifted child, but pointing and clicking in MS Word is hardly a brain drain.
well, there are 10 year olds that can ace college calculus classes. Does it make it any easier?
I've taken(and passed) 3 W2K MCP tests. W2K Prof installing, config, and admin, W2K server installing, config, and admin, and a IE/IEAK test.
They are all about 'what is the default install dir?', 'where do you add and change users?'.
Very few of the questions actually did any problem solving such as 'Your workstation has no network, use this sim to fix it'. I believe the hardest sim was for server and it was 'set up a network printer and share it for the 'accounting' user group to use between 8am and 5pm'
Serious question: How does a kid develop a relationship like this without 1) finding a child molester, and 2) making people think it's a child-molesting relationship?
I ask because when I was much younger, I met a Microsoft employee who I possibly could have developed that kind of a mentoring relationship with. My mother put the kibosh on it because of her fears of the above. Silly, yes. But if I ever wanted to be in the mentor part of this equation, I would be afraid that somebody else's mother would have the same fears. I'd like to learn how to prevent that.
Rubbish. All rich people have 'foundations'. It's the ultimate tax dodge. Bill's foundation gives away the most simply because he's the richest. Most of this 'giving' is thinly-veiled advertising and promotion for Microsoft.
How much does Bill give away as a percentage of his total wealth? George Soros gives away about half. I'll bet you that Bill doesn't give nearly that much.
OLPC Australia