$99 Linux Handheld with WiFi for Instant Messaging

An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com has an interesting write up about the new Aeronix Zipit instant messenger appliance. It is intended to free up a family PC from IM chatting teens. From the article: "the Zipit is based on a Cirrus EP7312-CR-90, an SoC (system-on-chip) with an ARM720T core that clocks up to 90MHz. This chip is supported by several Linux distributions, including FSMLabs's real-time RTLinux." At $99 (cheaper than many textbooks and graphing calculators) it could even be good for classrooms. With that 802.11b WiFi, I think this might be a perfect note-taking computer for students in lectures. "

Comments

Note-taking

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, the wifi is cool, but let's not kid ourselves, wifi is compeletely unnecessary for note-taking.

Re:Note-taking

[Hal_Porter]

That depends whose notes you want to take.

Not During Tests, Though

[ndansmith]

At $99 (cheaper than many textbooks and graphing calculators) it could even be good for classrooms.

With the new epidemic of cheating via txt, I doubt we will see these little devices in the classrooms for tests.

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[fourtyfive]

Shutdown the WIFI AP during the test ;)

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[RackinFrackin]

What's to stop the students from using an ad-hoc network?

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[cortana]

A microwave oven under every desk. :)

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[jcuervo]

Or setting up their own AP (wonder if this thing can do HostAP...)

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[Scaba]

With the added benefit of keeping them from breeding a new generation of cheating students!

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[OhioJoe]

heh. I recall a psych class where a graphics calculator was needed to do a few formulas for a portion of the exam... but the rest of the test was simple question and answer... ..ahem... see the flaw the stupid professor didn't think of? And since I didn't announce how stupid it was, I have no idea how many other students simply put their notes in the graphics calculators.

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[tabrnaker]

Ah, yes, what flaw would that be? That the professor sees his class as a place of learning, and you see it at as a place of cheating so you can get to your future goals without doing any work?

You're right. What a poor misguided individual to have not taken into account selfish, lazy people.

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[OhioJoe]

Note that I didn't say I took advantage of it. But I do wonder how many other students did. And note I said I did not reveal it. I didn't need to cheat.

OJ

Re:Not During Tests, Though

[RevAaron]

In my college classes, I've used a PDA for taking notes. I've also used it in various classes as a calculator, even during tests. In some of the classes, I gave the prof my memory card, which contain my notes, for the test. But then again, I could just as easily copied those notes to local memory... The only time a prof outright said no was in the AI class I had, where we had to write Scheme code. He said no because a) I had a Scheme interpreter (PocketScheme) on my PDA, and b) I usually used that Scheme interpreter as my calculator. Maybe it's an unfair advantage to have a real programming language around for your math; you have no idea how handy map can be on a genetics test. :)

But like the other guy said, what's it about? Cheating or learning? I've had ample opportunity to cheat, and I've not yet, at least not since keeping the quadratic formula as a note in a program on my TI calc in HS.

hmm

[Capt. Caneyebus]

I think i would rather spend the extra $$ and get something like a treo that has a phone feature, and if i am not mistaken the os on them is linux based. Also there is a wi-fi card for a tungsten palm that can be hacked to work on the Treo 650. But this is pretty cool for people on a budget.

Re:hmm

[Keruo]

TA mentions audio features so I guess you could use skype to get the phone features working. Sure, the coverage area wouldn't be anything near gsm, but the device wasn't ment to replace phones to begin with.

Re:hmm

[bodgit]

I think i would rather spend the extra $$ and get something like a treo that has a phone feature, and if i am not mistaken the os on them is linux based. Also there is a wi-fi card for a tungsten palm that can be hacked to work on the Treo 650. But this is pretty cool for people on a budget.

IIRC Treo's run PalmOS.

Re:hmm

[Capt. Caneyebus]

right, but read this article could be on the horizon for them.

Re:hmm

[maotx]

TA mentions audio features so I guess you could use skype to get the phone features working.

But the device uses an ARM chipset instead of the usual x86. Skype would have to be recompiled to support the ARM chip and while Skype is a great application, the source is not available requiring us to depend on the vendor to recompile it. I would love to have Skype on my Zaurus but the ARM chipset is not supported though there is a scream for it.

Re:hmm

[chrisl456]

The thing only has a 90Mhz ARM, I don't think Skype would run too well on it. I've seen Skype use 40% - 50% CPU on my 3Ghz P4 laptop.

Actually, I think Skype released or was planning to release Skype for the Zaurus, which did use an ARM...

And another thing - there was no mention of a mic or mic input. So unless they hack that on too...

Re:hmm

[rsrsharma]

The Treo currently runs PalmOS. PalmSource is currently creating a version of PalmOS (named Cobalt, v6.1 I believe) which uses the Linux kernel.

Re:hmm

[TeknoHog]

It mentions DAC, so I presume it can only output audio. Besides, as other posters have noted, it's probably unable to run Skype anyway.

Re:hmm

[Rayder]

I use 32 bits of an AMD 64 at 2 Ghz and skype barely uses 3% of the cpu to work, so something is clearly wrong with your computer.

One of my friends had exactly your same problem and the problems was overheating, the cpu gets so hot that the pentium slows the clock so it can deal with the heat, and thus the cpu usage increases up to your same levels when using skype.

Re:hmm

[nametaken]

If you're REALLY on a budget, there's the 900mhz Motorola IMFree. At the moment it only does AIM, and it's JUST a messenger, but Walmarts have been dropping it to the discount shelves at $15, with the usb base station. The girlfriend and I have them, and we can roam to each others base stations at each house. Someone also developed linux support for them. Really slick for a $15 setup.

Re:hmm

[Milkyman]

the treo650 hack to run the wifi card last i read requires a hard reset to switch from using wifi to using your mobile carrier's data services.

Re:hmm

[Scaba]

The girlfriend and I have them,

OK, now we know you're lying...

Re:hmm

[chrisl456]

Wow, thanks... I've been suspecting it was overheating. Time to clean out the fan I suppose...

Nice but...

[eth00]

While it does look like a nice device for chatting I cannot see it doing much more. The idea of taking notes on something that small is impossible for most classes where you are moving pretty fast. I ended up getting a laptop with a full size keyboard so that it would be easier to type.

I am all for little devices running linux but I do not see this exact device being used for anything like textbooks. With a lot schools (high school and college) implementing WIFI it will however be a great distraction from what is being taught...

Re:Nice but...

[sykjoke]

'impossible for most classes where you are moving pretty fast' I spent God knows how many years at school and they didn't teach me that much.

Re:Nice but...

[starwed]

I'm pretty sure I took notes on a TI-82 once or twice, and this would have been a nice step up from that. ^_^

Re:Nice but...

[TheRaven64]

When I was at school I regularly took notes and even wrote a 3000 word essay on a Psion Series 3. It had an 8086-compatible (a Nec V30H, as I recall) running at 4.77MHz, a 480x160 screen (no shades of grey - pixels were on or off) with a keyboard similar in size to the one in the article. It wasn't quite as ergonomic as a real keyboard, but I could type reasonably fast on it. I kept using it until it broke (although batteries cost a fortune - it used alkaline AAs, and got through a couple a week).

My point is that children have smaller fingers than adults, and so typing on a small keyboard is less of a problem. I think. It might have been something about kids these days having things easy. It's difficult to tell.

Re:Nice but...

[nofx_3]

At one point it highschool I was so adept at typing on my TI-85 that I abhored the thought of using my qwerty keyboard at home to type on. Back in that day I was a quite the whiz at t-basic (great place to put notes for your math test and program algebra equations) :)

-kaplanfx

Re:Nice but...

[cratos]

While it does look like a nice device for chatting I cannot see it doing much more. The idea of taking notes on something that small is impossible for most classes where you are moving pretty fast.

I dont know about taking notes, but I'd like to see one of these running CoursePro. I think this device would be perfect for something like that.

Cheaper than many text books?

[slavemowgli]

99 bucks is cheaper than *many* text books? Come on. Sure, there are *some* that cost more than that, but not *many*...

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[Cait Sith]

You haven't gone to a college bookstore lately have you?

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[cyberfunk2]

Question: Are you in college?

Because my standard books nearly ALL cost 100+$ USD.
And thats AFTER finding the cheapest price online instead of getting ripped off the additional 30% by the local bookstore. (Often used books can come in at under 100, but many of these still are very expensive).

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[eth00]

Where did you purchase your textbooks? Most semesters that I take end up costing well over $500 for books with one semester over $800. While it is true you can save some money by purchasing used textbooks they are always changing around the texts so you have to purchase a new version of that $200 book. That being said I would like to see you just try and read one page from a textbook on that little screen, it would take forever as you have to scroll every other sentence. It would also be pretty hard to display any pictures or diagrams, especially those that require color. Laptops are pretty common at most colleges today and with the cost of textbooks if they did start moving to all online textbooks you might as well just use your laptop and save your eyes!

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[bbrack]

FYI, average costs of a new engineering text are~ $160-180

I think I had 1 semester in college where I managed to stay under $500 on books alone...

Oh, and to doubly fuck you over, there is a new edition every 2-3 semesters (whenever the used market gets saturated) that doesn't fix any of the errors, just changes all the problems at the end of the chapter so if you manage to find a previous edition, you also have to borrow someone else's book to do any homework

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[Anonymous Cowpat]

I only had 1 book to buy this year. (1st year physics). It cost £50 (~$80). Appeal to academics:
Will you PLEASE stop having required texts that cost so much. Here's what you do:
1) Addison Wesley sends you a sample textbook and asks if you'd like to recommend it as your text, and if not, why not.
2) You write back that you have NO intention of recommending a textbook that costs so much and suggest something reasonable ([Cost of production +£10] +10%).
3) textbook prices plummet (hopefully, if enough universities do it).
Now, whilst you're waiting for the price drop you make sure that your lectures cover everything that will be examined and you make your notes available to anyone who wants them. If people need to check something or see a different explanation they can either a) ask their tutor, that's what tutors are for. b)use one of the (wide but small) selection of textbooks in the library.

Affluent students: don't buy textbooks either, that's just proping the publishing companies up against a price drop.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[isorox]

Must be some wierd american thing. In the UK typical price you'd pay for a undergrad textbook in any subject is £30 (about $50)

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[pmazer]

Please point me to some publishers that do this!

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[Uber Banker]

In the UK typical price you'd pay for a undergrad textbook in any subject is £30 (about $50)

Depends on the course and option you take then. I did my undergrad in the UK, graduated in 2001. In my final year, books averaged £60, about 7 books for the year: courses were based around time series analysis, game theory, finance. These were the standard text books for the subject, add it that photocopying costs for all of the journal articles (though the legal signs above every photocopier said "do not copy copyrighted material" and it all was).

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[EddWo]

That depends on how many textbooks you bought for each class.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[xMilkmanDanx]

One problem is that most of the professors are the authors of those same overpriced required textbooks. Second problem, the production costs are higher because the circulation is lower for a given book (too many different textbooks means no economy of scale for printing).

As long as professors continue to do something that at best is ethically questionable there will be no solution regardless of what students do. A university might be able to get change moving by banning this practice... though they might just lose all their staff trying.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[ShyGuy91284]

Agreed. Most text books are at least $60, and usually $100+ for advanced subjects such as Mathematics and Computer Science... Although most CS books are soft cover (why?), so that helps keep their price down a bit below $100....

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[aetherspoon]

You answered your own question - keeping down cost.

However, I end up with the 140 USD softcover textbooks that want to make me twitch and fall over frothing at the mouth...

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[ShyGuy91284]

Yeah, but most others are hardcover, and you probably won't need to reference them later on, while with CS books, they will probably be kept as reference material...

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[aetherspoon]

Yep. They increase the prices of textbooks for the US. A lot of us more economically inclined (read: cheap) students go online and buy international versions of the books, which are pretty much identical (except most times they are softcover - even then, not always!) and cost less than half the cost as a normal US version.

Of course, the bookmakers don't like that and try their hardest to forbid it, but... yeah...

*points to the thermodynamics textbook that was international and cost 30 USD new in my closet*

*points to the same textbook only at the Uni bookstore for 200 USD*

'nuf said.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[pallmall1]

You're not in engineering, are you.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[mr100percent]

It's not the professors, it's the students who go and resell their books back to the bookstore. With all those used books, the prices won't change much, and the demand will stay the same, because the students can't really choose to go without their textbooks for school.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[kryptkpr]

Me and my friends import all our engineering textbooks from Taiwan, for about 1/3rd of the price.

I don't think it's actually legal, there's big stickers that say "NOT FOR RESALE IN NORTH AMERICA", but since we technically are buying them in Taiwan and then just shipping them over here, I don't think there's much they can do..

I hear if you can get the Middle Eastern editions (as sold in Egypt and such) that you can get an even bigger discount.

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[ianturton]

As an academic author I feel the need to point out that we don't actually get rich on textbook sales. I make something like £1 on sales of a £70 book. Not too mention not many people buy my book in the first place. I guess if you have a first year class of 300 and write a required book you might manage to make something.

While you might feel it is ethically questionable for a lecturer to pass on their knowledge to a wider community many of us actually want people to learn about our subject because we find it interesting. Trust me there is way too much work in writing a text book to do it for the money.

However I think one of the differences between UK and USA course books is that we (the UK) don't set the questions at the end of the chapter as pratical assignments (at least not where I work). Thus if a student is happy with using the reference copy in the libary (if they can't actually borrow a copy) there really is no need to buy the book. I only bought 2 text books for my entire degree and I didn't really need those but the pictures were nice.

Ian

Re:Cheaper than many text books?

[OrangeTide]

All of my text books except for English were over $99.

Looks like a toy

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks fisher pricey. Despite the well-spaced qwery keyboard, I think you can only thumb-type with those hard rubber keys.

Re:Looks like a toy

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a Fisher-Price person you insensitive clod!!

I drive a Fisher-Price one-seater and park in a FIsher-Price garage on the 2nd level. The elevator goes ding-ding.

You try typing without any fingers on unbendable arms. A good rubber keyboard is easier (not to mention safer) to jump up and down upon.

Re:Looks like a toy

[corngrower]

Because it is ARM based, they were going to call the thing an 'ArmPit'. But marketers thought that name kind of stunk.

It's a neat little gadget, but ...

[Slayk]

For $99, this thing is a good way to experiment with embedded linux for those who are interested. I haven't gone out to get one myself, but I've seen one with a serial header soldered on (for flashing the ROM with better linux goodness than what is provided). It's rather small, has a wireless connection, and has decent battery life.

The downside to the whole thing is that the device does not fully conform to the LGPL (there's some issue surrounding linking), but most of what they've used is available

Re:It's a neat little gadget, but ...

[Slayk]

IIRC, the LGPL requires the distribution of source and object files of the LGPL'd code if the LGPL'd software is statically linked to your software. I believe that the object files are the issue.

Re:It's a neat little gadget, but ...

[TheRaven64]

Consider two packages, A and B. A is LGPL'd and B is closed-source. B links to A, and this is fine. The terms of the license, however, require that the end user be able to link to a different version of A at will. In general, this is done by dynamically linking to A. The operating system's loader will dynamically select a version of A to link against at run-time. If B is statically linked against A, then they must provide the source code, or the object files to allow the end user to link a new version of the library.

Re:It's a neat little gadget, but ...

[Luke-Jr]

Technically, they need to provide glibc code regardless of whether they modified it or not.

OLD NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Read this story ages ago on linuxdevices.com.

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4557745057.html

What's next? Will /. tell me WiMAX is a "disruptive technology"?

http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3095094669.html

What's wrong with paper?

[CyricZ]

What's wrong with taking notes in class using a pen and paper? If anything, it is probably quicker than trying to use one of these little doodads.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[NightWulf]

Yeah pens and paper, yeesh gramps why not just ask us to carve it into stone tablets. Get with the times!

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[DoorFrame]

I tie knots in string. I don't yet have access to this chisel technology you speak of.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[yotto]

Compared to this, yes, pen/paper is better. Compared to a laptop with a keyboard - assuming you can type at least 40-60 wpm and aren't a hunt'n'pecker - pen/paper is horrible.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[Ras Qulec]

I have severe problems with writing [think kinder gardener level] to the point that the local school district has issued me an electronic aid to keep my notes on and do some assignments. Without this I could never finish taking notes in time and be legible. Now I can be done before most people are half way finished since I am able to type faster then I can write.

Though the device I use is a glorified palm pilot with wifi and a full size keyboard it is still better for me then using a pencil. http://www2.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w.html

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[megarich]

In middle school/high school there nothing wrong with the paper and pen. In college though that's a whole 'nother game. Professors, unlike teacher's won't stop to repeat what they said so if you can't keep up, your kinda assed out. Remember the good ol' days where they actually had short hand courses so you can keep up? That's going to the way side with technology.

You can still get it done with paper and pen if need be and you probably right that paper and pen is faster than this new gadget. Any new technology though that'll replace my chicken scratch writing with something more organized and legible in at least the same timely manner I welcome :).

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[Ras Qulec]

However, this is school. They cant give you anything that will distract you or other students. A laptop would be a disaster. Laptop's can be loaded with a ton of games and other entertainment only apps. The Dana is rather limited and does perfectly what it was intended.
Having a device I can plug in at night and it runs the whole day without needed a recharge is nice compared to a laptop since I may end up sitting in the middle of a room, or in a room with no free outlets.
We have laptops at my house I could have used. But if I did that, I would only be tempted to make my school matters worse.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[ToasterofDOOM]

String? I tie knots in the tissues of my prey ... and tear strips of hide to lay out in cryptic patterns of shorthand!

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[Lord Ender]

That's quaint, old man. You probably run Debian, too. Get with the times.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[Cylix]

Arrogant braggart, we have been working to develop knot memory technology for ages!

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[Feztaa]

The only problem I have with note-taking on stuff like laptops is copying down diagrams and such in the science classes.

Of course, my idea for copying down notes was simply to bring a small digital camera and photograph everything the teacher puts up on the whiteboard... ;)

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[pallmall1]

SCO is preparing to sue you guys. They claim to own the knot-tying copyrights. Just look at the way they've knotted up the courts!

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[garcia]

What's wrong with taking notes in class using a pen and paper? If anything, it is probably quicker than trying to use one of these little doodads.

I type faster and easier than I can write. I can search what I write easily. Other people can read (and receive) what I write without interpreting and exchange of money.

Personally? I type with my thumbs about as fast as I type which is about 100x faster than I can write. Yeah, I can scribble something down quickly but I spend 3x as long trying to decipher what I wrote later.

What ever happened to people on Slashdot being pro-tech and not luddites?

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[ifwm]

Being left handed, I can say that there are 2 major problems for me.

I smear the writing with my hand, and I can't write comfortably from margin to margin.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[mr100percent]

yeah, but I can't search or spellcheck my notes. Emailing a copy requires me to scan it first.

With those aside, I prefer writing my notes. I get too distracted and start to read my email or browse blogs, losing out on the lecture.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[aug24]

We proto-hominids don't have opposable thumbs, you insensitive clod!

J.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[ianturton]

If you're dyslexic like me then it can be very advantageous to use a computer. I take notes using a mind mapping program which can convert my map to a set of outline notes that I can import to a word processor and write a fuller report from if I need.

Ian

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[EllF]

Where did you go to college? When I was in school, my professors were -not- maniacial asshats who sped through material without caring who "kept up". By the time I was sitting in on graduate seminars, in fact, we spent most of our time discussing things openly -- notes were helpful, but hardly the focus.

Re:What's wrong with paper?

[OrangeTide]

It's easier to fix a broken pencil than a broken laptop. Heck pencils are cheap enough that you could keep a spare in case you do break one in the middle of class.

Writing quickly and legibly requires practice, practice that you should have gotten plenty of in elementary school.

Could it be any uglier?

[DoorFrame]

Just wondering.

ZipIt Wiki - How to install new firmware..

[GameGod0]

There's a wiki dedicated to the ZipIt located here that contains useful HOW-TOs explaining how to install Linux on the thing... Myself and several others have written up tons of instructions on how to hack this thing. For example, I use my ZipIt as a wireless SSH client (the OpenZipIt firmware includes dropbear ssh...), and also to play streaming MP3 radio (groovesalad is nice...) It's a really cool device, and there's a ton of hacking potential...

AWESOME!!!

[ylikone]

I've been waiting for a really cheap device (like this one) that will act as a wireless SSH client! Sweet!

And as a bonus...

[linux_haxor]

ledgiable text! every try to reed an engineers scribbles?

Re:And as a bonus...

[CyricZ]

Yes. Very often. And they're usually quite insightful. I struggle these days with the young engineers who have grown up using their instant messegers and typing like fools. Their typed documents are often more difficult to read than any handwritten documents from older engineers.

On small devices such as these it is no doubt that unintelligble shorthand will be used. Your typical "OmG i b l8 4 wrk cuz caR brk dn" malarky.

I'd take a written document any day.

Answer to why it's not open

[PhYrE2k2]

Aeronix does not have a subscription revenue from Zipit usage. They would benefit from making the platform as open as possible without incuring any additional expense. Leaving solder points for the serial ports and additional points for the unused GPIO pins would make enhancing the product much easier. The more things that can be done with the device, the more devices people will buy.

Take a look at any MSN/Yahoo/AOL clone application for example. MSN changes their code, Trillian/GAIM/etc catch up and release a patch.

You can't have that nearly as much with a mobile device. I'd imagine there's a licensing issue with Microsoft's protocol for example as to keeping it tight and protected so that others can't get at it.

-M

Re:Answer to why it's not open

[GameGod0]

Actually, everytime a protocol changes or something, Aeronix releases a new firmware and the device auto-updates itself next time it sees an access point... (People complain about Yahoo support breaking a lot....)

Yeah, but does it run MSN Messenger?

[joelsanda]

eom

I have the Treo, your facts are off

[MagicMike]

I love the Treo 650, it really is an awesome device.

However

The "WiFi" hack made the wifi card work, but only just barely, and it completely destroys the ease of use of the machine because it requires resets and some manual intervention to enable and disable it. For all intents and purposes, its not worth it. Especially since the 650 does cellular data at 3G speeds, so its not a big deal to simply use the net.

Further, PalmOS is headed towards being linux-based (and thank god! Its like OS9 now, with resets instead of bomb icons). In the future then it should be like Mac OSX - easy to use (for its form factor) but rock-solid when it runs 3rd party apps.

At this point in time though, it is most definitely not unix-based and personal experience indicates that there is no memory protection. That's what explains why the Nintendo Emulator (yeah, on my phone, and it works!) crashes the phone frequently when I exit it (luckily the reset only takes 5s, so its worth it...)

IMAP

[gmplague]

Does anyone know of a similarly priced/featured device that supports IMAP? Seems Instant Messaging alone will get you a fairly restricted market, but if you added mail into the equation, you'd be in good shape.

Re:IMAP

[gsdali]

I would buy one at the drop of a hat if it could act as a little portable WiFi IMAP client, a budget blackberry. I could spend more time in the cafe and less in the office.

Re:IMAP

[Luke-Jr]

Pine's IMAP support is poor, at best.

Re:IMAP

[Luke-Jr]

I've attempted too, but I found it too unusable for anything serious.

Blackberry wannabe

[HermanAB]

It looks to me like a Blackberry Wannabe. This is not a notebook PC by any stretch of the imagination.

Re:Blackberry wannabe

[Pulse_Instance]

Did anyone say it was a notebook PC, I think that they said it was for IM applications only. I am buying one for my girlfriends sister who hogs the computer all day everday just to chat.

Flaws

[SisyphusShrugged]

Although it seems that the company has created an interesting linux based device, from reading some of the linked pages it seems it has a few flaws. The foremost being that the company isn't fully embracing the open source nature of the devices operating system. Apparently they have chosen to make it more difficult to develop for the unit by encrypting their firmware updates. Even worse, until they were asked to, they neglected to make the GPL and LGPL licensed software they used in their device available.

Re:Flaws

[orthogonal]

"Apparently they have chosen to make it more difficult to develop for the unit by encrypting their firmware updates. Even worse, until they were asked to, they neglected to make the GPL and LGPL licensed software they used in their device available."

So let's reward them for using GPL'd software and not making their mods available it, by buying lots and lots of these Zipits!

To hell with them. If I buy a device, I want to be able to use it as I want to use it. For them to use GPL'd linux and then encrypt their proprietary add-ons is just offensive.

Taking notes?

[ShyGuy91284]

He's joking, right? On that little keyboard? I've used little keyboard devices before, they work for some things, but taking notes on it (quickly most likely too) would be hell.... I'd just spend a couple hundred more for a old craptop if I needed something to do that that badly..... Or a cheap PDA and keyboard....

you are mistaken

[dbug78]

the Treo runs Palm OS. they are supposedly moving Palm OS to a linux core, but it hasn't happened yet.

They Copyright holders need to sue their asses

[putko]

From TFA:

"Aeronix Inc. originally did not post any of the GPL and LGPL source code used in the Zipit. After we confirmed that they used Linux, we politely asked that they comply with the license terms. I am one of the copyright holders in the code they use. I am pleased to see that they have at least posted pointers to the tools they used. They are still in violation of the terms of the LGPL for glibc."

Re:They Copyright holders need to sue their asses

[Creepy Crawler]

DO you have some reason why MS, Apple, or ANY OTHER FOR PROFIT software company wouldnt do the same? Oh yeah, you pay for theirs too.

Try calling up and asking if you can have MS c++ builder (whatever they call it now) for free cause you're contributing to 3'rd party programs that keeps MS alive?

Re:They Copyright holders need to sue their asses

[putko]

"DO you have some reason why MS, Apple, or ANY OTHER FOR PROFIT software company wouldnt do the same? Oh yeah, you pay for theirs too."

Well, one reason to not do what they did is that when you break the law, it can cost you money. The device makers broke the license. By doing that, they are violating the Copyright of the glibc authors by not following the license.

In the US, the glibc Copyright holders can get a preliminary injuction, forbidding the sale of those devices. I'd love to see that; we'd see if the (L)GPL is for real or not.

Also, I don't pay MS or Apple for anything -- I run OpenBSD. You are quite a presumptuous ass to presume that I pay Apple or MS anything. Go fuck yourself, shithead!

is it just me

[minus_273]

or does this screen look a little too much like a happy face that apprears when a certain other OS boots.

Looks like a nice remote

[BeBoxer]

This looks like a nice form factor to be a remote for a freevo or jukebox system with the right software. And the price is right to play around with. Much more reasonable than buying a Zaurus or something to use as a remote. It looks pretty tempting. Linux. WiFi. Flash-able. Under $100. Very tempting.

Re:Looks like a nice remote

[LWATCDR]

I was thinking the same thing. Too bad they did not hook the serial port up as an IR port as well.
I can see a lot of uses for this.
1. Remote for AV as well as home automation.
2. Portable streaming audio player. Think about WiFi headphones.
3. Home brew games. I see poker. If you could get these to work as an ad hock network I can see poker being popular.
4. Add a serial port an you might even have a fun little toy for packet.

Neat toy but...

[uncoveror]

I would like one with a color screen. My job requires me to travel to some really out of the way places, and my cell phone has wireless internet. With a full Qwerty keyboard and a decent screen, I could get on mapquest, but the ultra thin laptops I could hide under my seat cost way too much. Anyon know of a gadget like the one in the article with a color screen and a USB port?

Could it be any uglier? No.

[Erris]

Sure, it's mac inspired looks are a little dated (a 1998 Johny come lately M$ ringer), but I prefer that simple look to the really ugly athletic shoe inspired junk. The folding case is good. Of course, the 1/3 to 1/10 price tag is something to be admired.

This is just a sign of things to come. With a MMC or CF card slot and less intentional crippling, this would be a better buy than a $80 stand alone music player. Cheap, multi function wireless devices based on free software will soon flood the market. Some of them might even look nice.

And back in the real world (ie not school)

[Rude Turnip]

If I whipped out a laptop during a one-on-one or two-on-two interview with some lawyers, business owners, accountants or any of the other types of clients that I meet during the course of my job, they would instantly get distracted and likely pissed off as well. And then they go on to hire another consultant. Besides, any intense discussions get non-linear very quickly.

Sorry, the only excuse I've heard throughout numerous threads on /. regarding the use of laptops for taking notes is that "hey, it's on a computer, so I MUST be doing something sophisticated!!!...drool"

A set of notes is not a final product. It's something to be used in support of writing papers and taking tests. Moreover, they're not supposed to be a record of what the prof literally said (tape recording lectures are even more useless)...they're supposed to be little pointers to the ideas you're picking up from the lecturer while engaged in the act of paying attention.

There is room for a computer, however. What I'll do, for example, is review my notes and, in my own time, type up a summary of what I've heard and keep that for my records.

What's wrong with you?

[fm6]

Some of us are more comfortable with keyboards that with p&p. We type faster than we write, we make fewer mistakes, it's easier to read our notes, and electronic notes are easier to search and organize.

So you're more comfortable with p&p. Nothing wrong with that. Nor is there anything wrong with other people using the technology they are comfortable with.

What is wrong is people getting all righteous about other people who want to do things differently.

Web Browser and Email Client?

[Cpt_Kirks]

It needs a browser and email client.

And it needs to come in BLACK. It will still look like a GBA SP, but at least the color won't make you throw up.

Re:Web Browser and Email Client?

[Reed Solomon]

I wonder why they dont put slots for SD/CF cards on these things for added functionality. SD/CF cards are pretty ubiquitous nowadays and the ability to turn this thing into a wifi locator would be useful, maybe add some simple generic games to it. play some mp3's , maybe even include a simple (possibly elinks based) web browser and irc chat, and maybe a simple word processor. Theres no middle range for these things. either you get something like this that doesnt do what you want, or you get something like a palm that does too much (if you want the wifi capabilities).. is it so much to ask for something cheap that does wifi?

Zipit Wiki

[Fusen]

http://www.elinux.org/wiki/ZipIt useful for anyone looking to hack it

RTFA right next to it

[anno1602]

or does this screen look a little too much like a happy face that apprears when a certain other OS boots.

TFA:

The Zipit's look and feel strongly resembles that of mid-80s Macintoshes, complete with a boot-time smiley.

Not Ready for Market?

[DavidD_CA]

Seems that this device, which appears to be aimed at a market of teens for chatting, is not ready to be sold for that purpose.

One look at the bug/wish list at http://www.elkgrovewireless.com/zipit will show you that.

It will also remind many of us of the Audrey -- 3Com's very clevery attempt at a similar type of device that did a LOT more than chat and still didn't sell.

Granted, their device was around the $300 range (now you can get them for about $50 on eBay), but it had a 640x480 screen and full web browser and contact management which even sync'd to your Palm.

This ZipIt has only a B&W screen, lower resolution than my PDA, and although it may be open source it has a very limited feature-set out of the box. That will change, but how many teenage chatters will figure out how to update the kernel as hacks become available?

Using the Zipit

[lightyear4]

I have one of these little darlings, and in addition to helping on the devel front I have done quite a bit of truly productive work actually using. The linux devices article was, quite frankly, the best starting resource to date for anyone wishing to obtain and play with a Zipit. Prior to it, there were no concise collections of relevant links. Do stop by the wiki, as it is currently under construction and showing some good progress.

For the curious, a brief overview of impressions and capabilities:

• The device comes (stock) with:
• ARM720T processor @ 90mhz
• 16 mb RAM
• 2 mb ROM for kernel and userspace programs
• 320x240 grayscale LCD
• Agere 802.11b/g wifi
• Wolfson Micro stereo DAC audio
• ships with linux kernel 2.4.21 with the rmk arm patch, as well as an aeronix-specific extension to this patch, plus wireless extensions
• the standard pcmcia-cs wifi driver with two relevant patches
• Busybox 1.00 pre1
• uClibc 0.9.15
• glibc-2.2.5
• Wireless Tools 26

Also included are non-GPL'd bootloader, audiodriver, and the zipit messaging application.

As-is when purchased, the device is indeed running linux natively. The appropriate drivers and programs are brought about with a few init scripts, all transparent to the user. The zipit messaging program is a rather large 1.6ish megabyte arm binary which includes framebuffer, embedded audio, some decent graphics, and generally stable performance. NOTE: The zipit messaging binary is statically linked to glibc, therefore containing GPL'd code, yet Aeronix has thus far refused to release the code for this program!! If this bothers you (as it should), do something about it. At time of writing, the current firmware does not support the playing of streaming audio, though it is promised in a future upgrade.

On the devel front involved in hacking the zipit, thanks go to Aibopet and Ken McGuire primarily for their work in deciphering the process by which the firmware operates and updates. The yahoo community by which much of this work has been accomplished, has also produced an OpenZipit linux "distro" of sorts. It is superior in several ways to the stock Aeronix linux distro; indeed, McGuire from the abovementioned yahoo group has rewritten the audio driver to perform much better than the supplied driver. Streaming audio via madplay and freebase is indeed possible, and having played with it myself, does truly function well. While a bit underpowered for some uses, the processor has quite enough power to decode mp3/ogg audio (if you want to whine about processor speed, go get a laptop; the zipit is not for you). Others in the group were instrumental in tracing gpios and adding a serial port for troubleshooting. OpenZipit includes, among others, madplay, freebase, dropbear ssh, and the busybox versions of (b)ash, vi, ftp, telnet, etc. Please see the yahoo message board and the wiki for more information involving OpenZipit and its specifications.

From a user standpoint, the zipit is quite useful. One of my specialties is in wireless networking and wireless security; the zipit is quite good for a handheld auditing tool. (a port of kismet is in the works, for those of you that are interested). The range and robust nature of the wifi chip has never failed to surprise me: it has better range and sensitivity (perhaps not on paper, but indeed in use) than many of the most popular wifi cards available (orinoco, senao). Additionally, with the dropbear ssh client, any open (legal) wifi signal is a free ticket to your box of choice for console based applications. Battery life is an astounding 6+ hours. The 2mb ROM is too tiny for much in the way of userspace apps, but as the device is built for wireless connectivity, ssh serves as a gateway to most applications you mig

Re:Using the Zipit

[TheRaven64]

NOTE: The zipit messaging binary is statically linked to glibc, therefore containing GPL'd code, yet Aeronix has thus far refused to release the code for this program!! If this bothers you (as it should), do something about it

Glibc is not GPL'd, it is LGPL'd. They are not in any way obliged to release the source. They are, however, required to release the compiled object files for their program to people who purchase the device so that an end user can link them with a newer or modified version of glibc at their discretion.

An no, I'm not going to do something about it. The FSF requires contributors to GNU projects to assign copyright to the FSF precisely for this eventuality. It is their job to do something about it.

Re:Using the Zipit

[binarytoaster]

LGPL says that you can link to it dynamically, not statically. If you link to glibc statically you are including GPL code IN your program and thus need to release the full source.

GPL code can't be linked to statically or dynamically without having this problem. That's the difference.

Note taking? Please.

[realmolo]

If you are typing your notes, you're doing it wrong.

Notes are supposed to be quick and dirty. Pen and paper are the best tools for note-taking, because you can cross things out, draw arrows, underline important ideas...all of which are impossible to do (in real-time, anyway) if you are typing.

A computer isn't the best tool for every job, guys.

A cheaper one is for $19.99 and Amazon

[$exyNerdie]

Motorola IMFree Handheld Instant Messenger Kit for $19.99

Local walmart has the same on sale for $15...

Re:A cheaper one is for $19.99 and Amazon

[LoadStar]

The Motorola device requires a proprietary wireless receiver to be tethered via USB to a computer with a working internet connection, and the wireless is most certainly not WiFi. Additionally, the Motorola device is a closed device compared with the ZipIt.

I'm sorely tempted to get one of these ZipIts. I saw the Motorola device, thought it might be useful for being contacted with short text messages without the cell phone charges, but then found out about the Moto's limitations. The ZipIt seems to correct on all of them./p.

Re:A cheaper one is for $19.99 and Amazon

[Kymermosst]

$exyNerdie wrote:
Motorola IMFree Handheld Instant Messenger Kit for $19.99

Local walmart has the same on sale for $15...

It never ceases to amaze me how many self-declared "nerds", "geeks", and "hackers" completely miss why something is cool.

If you think it's cool because it does wireless IM, and there's something similar at Wal*Mart, so it must be cool too, and it's a lot cheaper, you aren't really a nerd, geek, or hacker.

It's cool because:

1. It uses WiFi, not some proprietary wireless technology, and therefore can be used anywhere you have WiFi access. (Open AP, friend's AP, etc.)
2. It runs Linux, not some proprietary OS.
3. It can be hacked. The OS can be re-flashed, your own programs can be run, and is therefore much more capable than "just IM".
4. It's all the above for less than $100.

That is why it is cool. Not because it does IM.

Your "cheaper one" only does IM, only does one protocol, must be within range of the USB computer that has the base station, doesn't run Linux, doesn't use 802.11, and the reason it's so cheap is due to the fact that nobody wants one. They started out at $100 over a year ago. Now Wal*Mart has them for $15 because they want the shelf space back for products that will sell.

How is this 'informative'?

[xMilkmanDanx]

While posting a couple links to linuxdevices.com and saying the current post is old news may be true, it doesn't make it informative. The links didn't add anything new to the current discussion and neither did the comments.

wardriving and lbs

[scabadone]

Has anyone looked into what type of capabilities this would have for a cheap wardriving machine? Also... what about getting support up on it for a location based instant messenger like Meetro. That would be the killer app for this thing.

Re:wardriving and lbs

[jrrl]

Wardriving was my first thought as well. On the one hand, it is not as cheap as the the little keyring detectors. On the other hand, it could actually find the SSIDs, etc. rather than just detecting signals on those frequencies. On the third hand, though (what, no cephalopods in the audience?), there doesn't seem to be a way to attach any GPS to the thing, which would make mapping much harder.

Definitely an idea though. Might have to pick one up. Hmmm...

-John.

VNC thinclient?

[Jagasian]

What about a VNC for this puppy? It seems like a nice thinclient. You could surf the web using Firefox while using the restroom, eating breakfast, or while out at the pool. That'd be worth the $99 to me.

Re:VNC thinclient?

[TheRaven64]

VNC on a 320x240 display with 16 shades of grey? I doubt you'd be able to run FireFox very well on it. You'd be better off picking some applications designed for devices short on screen real-estate.

WEP support?

[argent]

Does it support WEP-128 so it can be used with at least a minimally secured access point? I don't want to open myself up to wardrivers just to let my kids IM from the backyard.

Re:WEP support?

[barry99705]

Wardrivers don't connect to networks!!! Thieves do. Now repeat that 200 times.

Re:WEP support?

[argent]

Why, friend, I have noted that thieves and honest men may both glance at my house, and never thought the act made a man a thief... but were they able to read how to unlock my door by that glance still I would erect a fence and screen the entranceway.

Re:WEP support?

[argent]

WEP-128 is not more secure than conventional WEP-64 (WEP-40).

It's no harder to do, so there's no point doing less except for political reasons, and I would assume that anything that can do either can do both. The description in TFA didn't indicate it could do that much.

Please do note that I said "minimally secured".

Unexpected point of entry

[erroneus]

It just occured to me (yeah I know people have probably realized this for years now) that Linux's most effective means of entry is in areas where it is the most invisible. The consumer doesn't care as long as it works ... whatever it is. The people spending money only care that it's as inexpensive as possible and sells as much as possible.

The lure of Linux embedded in devices is irresistable. Most stand-alone devices don't need to be "compatible" with other things so outside of adjusting to this "foreign" development environment, there's not much reason to use anything but the free environment that Linux stuff offers.

So I'm thinking that the more Microsoft targets these areas of the market (home appliances) the more I see that Linux is already beating them to the punch. But I wonder how this will help in getting this edge as leverage into the desktop? I wonder if, by the time it happens, the desktop is a thing of the past? I'm doubting that the desktop PC/workstation will ever be a thing of the past in the office... and by extension, that it will ever expire at home.... well anyway... just random thoughts.

Serves a niche

[kbahey]

Obviously, this serves a niche, but it does not include me.

My teens each has a PC of their own, with all the chat software they want on it. And since I bought them used, they are not much more than 99$ specially when you factor in that they do their homework on it as well.

Re:fp

[Charles Jo]

That is interesting too but that means that the system is not working and needs to be improved.

Can you buy these in Europe?

[GekkePrutser]

Sounds good.. I wouldn't mind getting one for that price, seems like a good way to keep logged onto messenger all day, and if you get bored with it you can turn it into a handheld SSH client or something.. Or even X!

The only thing is.. where do you buy these in Europe? They only seem to be available in the US :(

99 Simultaneous connections?

[nurb432]

Geesh thats what i call multitasking... ( and wasting a lot of time ).

But, in all seriousness, how 'open' are these things? Is it practical to convert it into some sort of cheap wifi terminal?

Sure a PDA might be better suited, but this does have a keyboard.. and is pretty cheap.

VNC/RDP Terminal

[nurb432]

This might make a cheap little 'terminal' to access your home machine via your local free wifi point..

Too bad the screen is a bit small, and B/W.. Hard to find anything that isnt color these days..

Only $35 @ Walmart?

[cmholm]

I saw this at the Kahului Walmart a couple of months ago, where they were evidently trying to clear them out at $35. Worth it just for the wifi access point, if it's not too locked down. I had looked over the hacking sites to see if the client device could support Jabber IM s/w, and it seems plausable.

backlight on the zipit

[belial]

Even though they didn't include one, you can add your own backlight to the zipit. Makes it much more useable when using the thing anywhere other than in direct sunlight.

add your own backlight

Hmmm....

[ylikone]

Why doesn't somebody just come up with a sub $99 handheld linux box? I mean, it would for a really niche market, but you could probably sell thousands of them to that market.

Ooo!

[StarKruzr]

4. Add a serial port and you might even have a fun little toy for packet.

Good call! Instant packet-to-802.11 bridge! :D