Slashdot Mirror
WoW Helping or Hurting the Industry?
alstor writes "The New York Times has an interesting story about the success of World of Warcraft, and whether it is hurting or helping the gaming industry; this goes along with an earlier post on an article from CNN. From the Times article: 'WoW is now the 800-pound gorilla in the room. I think it also applies to the single-player games. If some kid is paying $15 a month on top of the initial $50 investment and is devoting so many hours a week to it, are they really going to go out and buy the next Need for Speed or whatever? There is a real fear that this game, with its incredible time investment, will really cut into game-buying across the industry.' What is the Slashdot opinion on World of Warcraft's impact on the gaming industry?"
I don't believe WoW is the 800-pound gorilla yet, because there are still ways to serve the market.
One request that has often been asked but hardly answered is the free-game-with-subscription model.
While almost all pay-$50-then-$15-monthly gamers may have been attracted to WoW, there must be even more gamers who are only willing to invest in a game which allows them to pay-as-they-play. Is any leading publisher willing to take a risk of no initial income and bank on the monthly subscription?
So I think WoW is in a way helping the industry to identify this subscription-based market, but if the rest of the industry is trying to do the same thing, they are likely to be a distanced also-run.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
The graphics in WOW are pretty intense and I know many people including myself who bought a new computer just to improve their WOW experience. Also, Blizzard is releasing new content every month or so that requires even more graphics power. So the trend will mostly likely be for subscribers to buy new hardware quite often.
:).
The interesting thing is that WOW supports MAC very well. Granted the graphics I heard are not as good as on a PC (I don't see a difference). I saw people buy MACs because their main game now was on MAC and they didn't see a need anymore to stay on PC.
Playing WOW on a 30 inch Apple wide screen LCD is pretty nice
Elnino - Destromath.
It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well. - Rene Descartes (1637)
This too will pass.
But I'm too busy playing Capture the Flag in Warsong Gulch.
Death to the Horde!
[*] But a salute to the talented Horde on Cenaurion Circle from Art of Battle.
Yes, it probably is. Since I started WoWing I haven't been playing as many other games and definitely not buying any. It doesn't help that there haven't been many games that have been released lately that interest me. Eventually I'll grow tired of WoW and the next new big games that interests me will come along and I'll stop. But until then I won't be spending my money on other games.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
We need an Equalization of Opportunity in Video Games Act.
Can't post...must gain level!
Whatever man, I spelled it write!
There's always going to be the people NOT playing WoW, and those people are always going to number in the tens of millions. So, no, it's not really going to hurt the industry, unless they become like Hollywood and put out crap.
Show this to your friends and family that don't know what a real hacker is
I'm not going to feel sorry for EA games, anytime soon. Innovate or get out of the way.
I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
I don't think it is an issue because as thousands join, thousands of us quit.
WoW is a boring game when you get to the higher levels, and it is at it's heart just another game of "grind to spend time".
In the short term it might have an effect, but in the long-term it will just be a bump in the road.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
The game industry is already hurting. There's so much lack of innovation in games due to stupid software patents (camera views, etc.)
As long as this doesn't become the next Evercrack, why should I really care whether or not it's hurting an industry that's hurting itself to begin with? If anything, I'd tend to think Electronic Arts is hurting the industry more because of their exclusive deal with the NFL.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Maybe, if the games industry would make games worth playing ( instead of the affore mentioned sequels and the like ), people would buy them.
Just a thought. However, name a game that has the same level of enjoyment as Sam and Max. Or Grim Fandago.
Or wing commander. Xcom.
Just to name a few. Everyone lately seems overly obsessed with graphics, completely ignoring the plot and gameplay in some cases.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
any single player games in the last three years but instead have bought a copy of almost every MMORPG game that has come out on the market looking for the next UO. For me the game is secondary to interacting with the people online and as such for me this type of game will always have a special place for me.
The social aspect is also a big draw, in that I have quite a few friends who are likewise addicted to WoW, so I can log in and chat with them as well. Single-players or XBox Live games just aren't as good at that aspect.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
People get bored and move on, at least most. A select few will stick to a single game like that and play for huge amounts of time each day every day for years, but for the most part people not only get totally bored and move on to a whole new game entirely after a while, but they get bored on a day-to-day basis and play other games just for variety. It may be an 800lb gorilla right now, but it will grow old and die, or more likely, be unceremoniously butchered by the -next- 800lb gorilla to come along. Aside from that, you also have to recognize that while MMORPGs are growing in popularity, the people that play them still are not such a huge target audience that a game company would go broke simply by failing to market to them altogether.
Unpleasantries.
I play WoW about 15 hours a week, Deathwing server FTW. But I still find time to play alot of other XBOX and PC games.
I never got into WoW because I'm cheap, but I got into Guild Wars... and I've passed on buying at least 3 games that I can think of off the top of my head. I'm a college student, and my gaming time availability is rationed carefully. I can only imagine that it's worse for everyone paying the monthly fee for WoW.
Um... do I ask 13 year old boys about hedge funds? Who is this guy and why is his laughably out of touch opinion anchoring this article? It's like some talking head in 1890 going "this whole electricity thing is a fad. A few electric lights here, an automatic phonograph there. It will fade after the novelty factor wears off."
Seriously, how out of touch can you be with the growth of online gaming? Someone should show this idiot his quote in 10 years.
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It isn't like MMOs didn't exist before this.
It also isn't like Blizzard hasn't ever made a game before that was so absorbing that people just stopped playing anything else.
I don't see any examples of World of Warcraft hurting "the market". What I see in this article is examples of poor game developers, being hurt by capitalism. If Need for Speed is bad enough that spending $12 on WoW makes Need for Speed not worth buying, then the problem here is that need for speed wasn't good enough to be worth $12 to that person. The reason why Matrix Online got "downsized from nine virtual "realms" to three" is because Matrix Online sucks. Notice in the article that NCSoft, who actually makes good games and is competent enough to compete in a fair market, doesn't seem at all worried?
There are a number of developments in video games lately that I would describe as bad for the health of the video game market. World of Warcraft is not one.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
World of Warcraft is simply the most popular MMORPG right now. This same article could have been written about Everquest 1 a few years ago.
EQ arguably sucked even more time than WoW, and other PC games were still sold. There are many gamers who don't like the MMO thing and will continue to buy other games and consoles.
Eventually, someone will make a WoW-killer in the MMORPG arena. It may take a few years, but it'll happen.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
From my experience in video game retail, I would say it isn't going to be a direct impact from games like World of Warcraft that adjust the buying habits of consumers. The biggest impact will be stores like GameStop, GameCrazy, EBGames, and some of the older stores from the past that have merged with GameStop over the years. Their Trade-In programs, while convenient, are slowly sapping the libraries from players and into retailers warehouses. For example, I recently shipped nearly sixty copies of GTA: III to a warehouse because of an abundant overstock. Considering the store I work in has only been open less than a year, I was quite surprised to see I had 60 copies of overstock for any game.
Now I know that I'm getting kind of off topic and trade-ins are a completely different tangent, but the trends in buying vs trade-ins are very relevent. Consumers are becoming less and less likely to purchase a NEW game over a Used Game, they are also becoming more and more prone to spending less money out of pocket to pay for something. So I believe we'll see a small impact from subscription games. I mean $15 a month, if someone buys 12 games a year, is only about 3 games per year. Though, as compared, the biggest impact will be from consumers running out of trade in values. It may sound a little far fetched, but I have been seeing a lot more people who are unwilling to pay more than thirty dollars out of their pocket when they have rising gas prices and costs of living to deal with as well. So when someone can trade in three games they already own to pay less than $10 for that spiffy new game they want, they'll do it. The question I pose, though, is what happens when they realize the trade ratio is about 3 to 1, and eventually they either wont have games to trade, or will be stuck paying 30+ dollars per game again.
I can only speak from my own personal experience...I used to buy at least one game a month. Then I got into Dark Age of Camelot early on in its launch. I didn't buy another game for a year and half after that. I even convinced myself that being completely addicted to DAoC was a good thing--at only $12.95 a month, I was saving a bundle in not having to buy new games. -wolftattoo
Canceled my EVE Online accounts this weekend. Both accounts represent hundreds of hours of... something. Not sure if its work or play, but its a hell of a lot of time. Past MMOG engagements include DAOC and PlanetSide. Both equally large time sinks, PlanetSide being the most fun until they ruined it.
I'm done with MMOG. I appear to have the ability to quit these things cold-turkey after sufficient suffering. I know others can't.
Downloaded Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory. The bugs apparent in the 1.x releases are gone. There are plenty of very active servers. No exp bar to watch; you're uber the instant you start playing. Log off and you're done. Only way it becomes a time sink is when you attempt to develop content.
There you go; living proof MMOGs won't ruin the non-MMOG market.
No, you can't have my stuff.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
The gaming industry will continue to exist. What won't exist are the current software houses, not because of WoW but because it's the nature of the beast. Ten years ago Sierra, Dynamix, Interplay, and others were the kings of the gaming hill. Now, they're just fond memories.
In the online community Everquest is fading, DAoC is fading, even City of Heroes is fading. All the supposed "hot! hot!" games enjoy popularity for a while then fade away. WoW will do this too.
As for the original question, WoW has little or nothing to do with the revenue streams flowing into other game developers. The purported "fear" of WoW cutting into game-buying is the sound of marketers quaking (pun not intended) because they promised management and shareholders 15-20% revenue increases based on publication of such scintillating games as "50 Cent: Bulletproof", and the revenue flow is just not happening. WoW is a convenient scapegoat.
As others have said, good games, not good marketing, draws the dollars. The recording industry is learning a similar lesson, as is Hollywood. It just happens to be gaming's turn.
Innovate or get out of the way.
Thank you! It's not that WoW is monopolizing. They just happen to have made a good game, and the consumer is speaking with their dollar. If a game comes out that can draw attention from WoW, it deserves the money. I'm sorry that EA can't pump out another Madden and make endless cash, but its about damned time that the Free Market and Economic theory returned to the marketplace. There is no anti-competive work at play here, supply and demand. Low supply of quality games, and a high demand for it where WoW fulfills the need.
Microsoft Sucks, F/OSS Rocks. I get mod points now right?
The amazing thing that I have seen in WoW is the difference between the graphics on a low end machine (my gf has an old dell P3 800MHz) and the high end machines (I have a brand new machine I put together for BF2, complete with 2 gigs of ram and that nice 500 dollar graphics card I've always wanted). It looks good on her machine, and even runs well. On my machine it is one of the prettiest games I've ever seen. They don't go for realism, they go for effect. And they do it very successfully. The fact that it runs on both machines is great as well. And it even runs on my Mac (something which Blizzard has been smart enough to do for every release they've done).
A couple of thoughts ....
.. solid PvP should have been there at day 1 ..., (hey it is Warcraft right?), ... but EQ2 was chucked out the door similar to Star Wars Galaxies. Sony is more worried about keeping the subscription teat lactating than producing something revolutionary and polished. (Of course, one need merely look to other genres like the movie and music biz to know that very few of the big names are doing more than churning out crap these days.)
The folks at Sony (Raph, etc.) are responsible for their own problems with EQ2. They rushed to get that game out the door as close as they could to WoW, even though WoW was much farther along in testing. If they hadn't made hasty decisions in order to try to contain the "virtually" certain EQ exodus to WoW, and instead had invested that time on producing a truly innovative game, they could have won back mindshare from WoW when it hit its inevitable "fallout" with players: the (similarly rushed) launch of "battlegrounds".
Now I'm not saying WoW wasn't rushed too,
Now, on the topic of WoW, I played it to the "uber" end of the game, as I did with EQ for many years, so I know what I'm saying when I say that WoW was a rather big disappointment for me. I've been playing MUDs since 1990, and writing them since 1992, so I feel I have a good idea with what has been done and what remains to be done in this repackaged world of distributed MUDs with 3d graphics and perty textures. In short, WoW was disappointing in its inability to deliver a good mechanism for player-created content.
So basically WoW delivers an experience of "EQ like it should have been" (gosh I thought that a lot playing the game), but it was hardly revolutionary. Once you've explored the content in these games, it is up to you to make the content, or simply to get used to doing the same thing again and again. Its not so easy to build games "on the game", and the games that are there just become a treadmill for the powerlevelers. (E.g. battlegrounds "flag cap" trading.)
Now, I realize that many people will never hit the top levels of these games, and they may enjoy the journey, never "see it all" or even come close, and certainly try the game from the shoes of multiple classes. More power to them. Personally, I think I'd find that boring after awhile too. After all, there is only so much variety the game can deliver with their quest and combat engines.
Now back to what remains to be done... I think that's clear to me. Way back in the days of Diku and LPMUD, when players got to a certain point in the game they became "gods" or "wizards" and contributed content. With LPMUD (or MudOS) and some other dynamic engines, players could actually contribute code! (And yes as a Java developer for the last 10 years I know damn well about the inherent security risks and how to mitigate them.)
I want a fantasy (or scifi, or spy, or whatever) MMORPG that lets me contribute content and code to a dynamic world. I guarantee you a game like that will be innovative because the players will make it that way. And there are ways to keep balance, manage exploits, etc.; if you don't think so, go and look at the text MUDs that have been dealing with this for 15+ years. This is not just another "oh gosh he wants dynamic content, its too hard to do!" post -- like I said, go look at the numerous text MUDs that have been working on these issues for a decade or more. (And yes, I am personally working on my own solutions to these problems, "for the good of open source" (tm). Links to sourceforge project in my profile when I put it there).
Now before anyone links "Second Life" and such, let me remind you that those "games" are hollow in not having the cool backstory and "out of the box" content that something like WoW delivers. You need both, really, and I think running around buying jet packs and clothes in second life sounds as exciting as playing Sims Online, and we've seen how that is going.
...I bought it just recently, already at lvl 11 of 20 max. Hitting max isn't the goal. What I like about it is the co-op with my friends. You can't be a one man tank, I could easily be beaten up by a group of level 3-4 monsters. And for the strong monsters, you *need* the cooperation.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I think the real question is will the success of WoW affect the piracy rate of games? =)
There's no way to play on Blizzard's servers without paying the monthly fee, and I know quite a few WoW players where WoW was one of their few legitimate purchases in a LONG time... and since they've started, they haven't bothered downloading any other "gamez"
Kormac
Wish I had the time to spend all that time playing games.
... I'm lucky if I get a couple of hours of gaming time a week, and by that time all I want to play is something extremely violent and gory. If I get too engrossed in a game I risk not getting enough sleep or getting into work late, which isn't good. I hardly ever watch TV, or have the time to read either. I do spend too much time online though, that's my vice I suppose.
But instead I have to go and earn money, socialise in the real world, keep the house 'girl friendly', sleep
No wonder the game is wildly successful! Blizzard did their homework and discovered the younger MMORPG crowd is attention deficient. My subscription ends this month. Flame on...
Blog: http://richardrandomrants.blogspot.com/
"I want a game where I can play a few hours a week, and still get something out of it. Things just take too long in the high level game in WoW!"
Try Counter Strike. It also can be a time sink but it is easier for it not to be. With each round resetting every 3-5 min it's easy to hop in for half hour or so and have a lot of fun.
Not like WoW where you can spend that much time just trying to get to where the action is. Run run run. Get to the port. No boat. Dang, just missed it. Wait 5 min. Fish. Dang, fishing without beer is boring. Ride the boat, run run run. Hop on griffon. fly fly fly. run some more. Now the fun can start 20 min later. Boring.
I got WoW last November.
/played than I'd care to admit. It's saved me a lot of money. I've been cooking more and therefore eating better (eating out takes more time than cooking a good meal typically does) and spending less. All in all, WoW is saving me a lot of money.
I haven't purchased another game since. I reinstalled and played HalfLife 2 for awhile, but that's about it. I've only played WoW. I have two characters (level 50 druid, level 60 warlock) with more time
Will I switch games? Probably not. I've got a time investement in WoW. I've got a social investment in my guild. Heck, I found out a guildie was local to me and appropriate for a job and got him hired for our helpdesk because I knew he was a straightforward easy to work with person based on my WoW experiences with him.
Will I play a single player game again? I've got a PSP for when I'm on the road. So, not bloody likely. I'm looking forward to an expansion, the next patch, and getting my hunter leveled up on a PvP server.
I'm playing WoW right now on my PC while I read this on my Mac Mini.
Am I typical? Dunno, hit the reply button and tell me.
Time was when EA actualy produced innovative games. In fact, they were one of the most innovative game companies of all time, back when Bill Budge and Trip Hawkins were still household names. Now they are just re-packagers of other people's shit.
Neopets - the best free game on the Int
Should BLizzard be able to force you to do what they want with the game you have purchased?
Sure they can put it into there EULA, but that does NOT make it so.
I acn sell hammer and make you sign a piece of paper saying you will only use it with 10 penny nails. If I tried to get a court to stop you from using it on panel nails, I'd be laughed out of court.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Agreed. It's the 800 lb gorilla because it's good. It has a ton of content and supports single and group play, PvP, etc. It isn't the best at everything (City of Heroes wins the title for best group play, Dark Age of Camelot has the best PvP) but it is the best overall. And it runs on an average machine. Hell, the late EQ2 crawled on a top end machine.
:)
I, for one, welcome our orcish overlords.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have to log on...
Oh yeah, and also me and my roommate would normally have already started playing Madden '06 but thanks to WoW we can't even be bothered to buy it...
I havent purchased any new games in the past 6 months simply because I have spent my limited gaming time on WoW and don't have the time to try new games. (havent seen anything that great anyhow.)
And three more cheers for Blizzard and their continued support for the Mac Platform!
For an MMORPG, WoW's pretty much the same basic stuff that's been around since [before] Everquest. It's not really new or innovative in any way.
It's polished certainly (what Blizzard game isn't), but truth be told, Blizzard pulled one of EA's biggest tricks out of the hat with WoW. That is, they applied an already hugely popular franchise (Warcraft) to a routine genre. And heck, even a lot of the main features of the game, such as spells and items, are heavily borrowed from Blizzard's previous games themselves (War III and Diablo II specifically).
That's not to say it's a bad game. It most certainly isn't, as the sales prove. But the only thing Blizzard is doing that differently from EA (and companies like that) is that they're taking time and care to actually polish their titles. But new and innovative? Not really.
Everyone that I know playing WoW is barely cognizant of the outside world anymore - so this survey is biased to say the least because WoW players are simply unavailable at the moment for such mundane things as reading /.
Halo? Yes.
The point is, WoW is worth it. Need for Speed, OTOH, is just Yet Another Piece of EA Crap. Notice how they were up to six or seven before they started calling it "underground"? It's probably getting close to version 10 now, and still, nothing new to make it worth $50.
Halo 2, OTOH, is worth $50, plus whatever an Xbox costs now, even if you only use it for Halo. Plus a TV tuner card or video in line, if you don't have a TV.
Similarly, old as it is, Final Fantasy 10 is still worth the cost of a PS2, plus whatever the game goes for now. Final Fantasy 7 is priceless, although it can probably be had for under $20 and run decently on any PS emulator.
And Half-Life 2, with all of its mods, is a steal at $60 for the Silver Edition.
Would I buy Half-Life 2 if I was already playing WoW? Hell yes. Would I buy Need for Speed Underground Super Happy Drift Mode, if I was already playing WoW? Hell no.
It's not an 800-pound-gorilla (sony), or piracy, or the media, or dumber kids, or games that are too easy, or a lack of ethics (Hot Coffee) that's hurting the industry. It's that crap like EA is still seen as "THE Industry", and good indie and even free games/mods (Natural Selection, for one) are often completely overlooked in the media (Slashdot, IGN, Gamespy) orgy over inane things like hardware and the latest Doom/Quake.
We don't just need good, innovative Indie games -- we have those (Katamari, Natural Selection, Cube) -- we just need more publicity. Maybe even more piracy. Guess why a completely unknown and oddball show originally about "demon magic" is now the #1 Ninja Anime in America (Naruto)? I think the world is better for it.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
If people aren't buying games because WoW is so good, it just means the other games aren't good enough to buy. Why buy a bad or mediocre game when you've got WoW waiting at home? If developers want people to buy their games, they need to make them good enough to merit time away from Warcraft.
It's hard to strive for greatness when surrounded by the mediocre.
I didnt read the last 500 comments, so I dont know if this was already posted. But, to comment on, if its hurting the gaming industry by kids playing this all the time instead of buying other games like need for speed- well, first of all, need for speed is a crappy game, like a lot of other games. Not, using this specifially, but what I mean, is... is this hurting the industry? no. frankly, I wouldnt buy games like need for speed because they suck. a lot of games suck. WoW is a great game. So, other game companies need to get their ass in gear and make a good game, one that can compete with WoW. So, hopefully companies will realize this, and if they do, yes it will be good for the industry. But, in what ways could it be bad? well, i hope ea does go under. I cant stand to see another madden. Or else Im going to puke.
Martin
Having been in the past an addicted player of Starcraft for years, I thought I'd add my two cents.
I never bought any other game for two or so years. I didn't even feel the urge to try anything new. That game was so good that I spent hours on hours on it. Week after week. For months. Always lingering between 'chobo' and 'gosu', as the strategies of the game evolved, it never ceased being interesting.
Was that good for Blizzard? No. Because I wasn't the only one. They could see the devotion millions (literally) of people showed and they couldn't tap on it. I bet they had really gone crazy. OK, they published an extension, everybody got it, but that was that. And it's a thing that just won't die. (And even Warcraft III, "well, you know, it's OK, but it's not Starcraft." That was a major blow.) Not as popular after its original release (it has been 7 years or so, after all), it still has a strong following. People are asking for Starcraft 2, but only casually.
The new model is good. It's good, because it means that a good game will not only sell more units, but it will also generate revenue for a longer time per unit. Profit is not longer a function of a units, but of units by time. Think profit squared, for a really engaging game.
If they figure out a way to give us Starcraft 2 without our thinking they're ripping us off charging for what was free at Battle.net, I'd expect it any day now. But it's not easy, that's a concept better suited to WoW and the likes.
As I said, just the 2 cents of a former addict.
-m-