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Refugee Radio Station Blocked by Red Tape
Zathrus writes "According to a Wired story, a volunteer organized low power FM radio station is being blocked by local administration and red tape. They've already won the classically big battles -- securing FCC licenses, obtaining the broadcast equipment and radios, getting the manpower, and having some big name backing -- only to be blocked at the last minute by some lower level administrators who don't think information is a worthwhile resource." From the article: "According to KAMP, Royal claimed the Astrodome was not able to provide power to KAMP's low-power FM transmitter. When KAMP offered to bring in enough batteries to power the equipment off the Astrodome's grid, they were still denied. Obey, speaking to Wired News, explained that the JIC couldn't see a use for the radio station when they had the ability to communicate via the loudspeaker system and newsletters. "
For anyone who's interested...
h tml?id=6
http://www.aarong.thinkcomputer.com/essays/index.
I'm wondering whether this has something to do with the fact that loudspeaker announcements and newsletters can be controlled by the officials in charge of the Astrodome, wheras a volunteer-run radio station can't.
I understand the need for the Red Cross and other shelter organizers to promote a good atmosphere (well, as good as possible), but sheesh, I fail to see the harm done by a microtransmitter.
I am of the opinion that, overall, the American Red Cross is well organized and operated (I'm speaking with over six years of experience with EMS, SAR and Disaster Relief here). However, I have to sigh at the bureaucracy and lack of "out-of-the-box" thinking that sometimes crops up when I'm volunteering with them.
Everyone in the country has been taking politicians involved to task for the bull that's happened so far (which has hindered relief or preparedness to these poor people). Stop it already!
insert inflammatory anti-microsoft comment here
From the Villiage Voice:
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
You know, it looks like the entire disaster operation is being run on the premise that it's very, very important that minor officials be allowed to be officious.
What I say does not represent the views of my employers, my friends, my cats, or myself.
it is really sad when people organize and work hard to help their fellow man, just to be stopped by bureaucracy. Obey should be helping the cause and not trying to put the kabosh on it. Maybe this why you don't see more people going out on a limb, because they think it will just get shot down?
I eat Karma for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. That's why I don't have any.
C'mon these guys make NPR look like Fox News. How about a little balance?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Wars, Depressions and Natural Disasters always bring out the Fascists. They gravitate to any venue where they can make the case that control triumphs freedom.
This is absurd, what year is this again? Newsletters and loudspeakers to distribute safety information but no radio? Need to inform thousands of people of imminent danger, please wait while we print newsletters and distribute them one at a time to inform people of the matter. Failure to use technology to properly distribute information is one of the many reasons this disaster occured in the first place. Lets just repeat that mistake again.
Quite honestly I think that's a nice steaming pile of bull.
George W. Bush does not care about the color of your skin, only the amount in your wallet.
Or a newspaper, or a volunteer AM station, or a loudspeaker.
It sounds like these people were hell-bent on starring in their own FM radio DJ fantasy and were not open to other flexible ideas.
I'm also QUITE SURE that FEMA and the Military did not want one voice of resistance telling the people in the dome anything that would be off-message. Why allow some conduit for politics or whatever? It would just add chaos.
The first priority of damage control for the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is not to save lives. It's to mask blame. Not that there isn't blame to go around - but the talking points going around are built to make all blame seem equal. To make it seem like any one of the politicians involved in this disaster had the same ability to help save people, and Republican politicians who did not help did nothing wrong compared to everyone else.
Having a radio stations where people affected could speak their minds openly, or even potentially openly would hurt this damage control.
Ryan Fenton
Communists used to ban BBC in our country that way :) I guess the history is repeating itself in different context :)
sex is better than war!
The harm is that some people who were directly affected by this disaster might exercise their freedom of speech and freedom of expression. They might question why their federal government failed them so badly in so many different ways. And a lot of people may hear such objections and questions. That won't bode well for the administrators who are blocking the survivors' most basic freedoms.
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
"On Thursday, Obey explained the decision to ultimately refuse the low-power FM station request.
'With limited resources, you err on the side of FEMA and the Red Cross over entertainment.' "
First, the station was going to be providing more than entertainment.
Second, who from the Red Cross opposed to the station? Why?
Third, who from FEMA opposed the station? Why?
If it cost FEMA and the Red Cross nothing, they have no reson to oppose. If either believes it will cost them something, I'd like to hear it explained.
My guess is, they are worried that unhappy people can be incited to riot.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Of course, either the military / fema is in control or they are not...
If you don't want FEMA running the whole show, then put someone else in charge. But don't be surprised when they lay the smack down on people trying to steal the spotlight.
Again, if FEMA lacks radio capability, then they suck, but it doesn't mean some free-wheeling group of hippies can set up a resistance station in the dome either.
So how efficient is the lighting at the dome? using 5000000 watts?
These guys arent asking for power to use 1000 laptops.
The smegs in charge want to do it their way so they can up their career, and not be upshowed by some amatures.
Typeical govt workers, corrupt to hell.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Why do they have to be stationed in the Astrodome? I'm sure the authorities in charge don't want to be responsible for the cable runs out to their tower.
They can just put their equipment into a van and broadcast from the parking lot like regular pirate radio. They can still do interviews within the dome using portable radios and cell phones.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Couldn't they operate the station from a van legally parked outside the Astrodome? If they did that, FEMA would have a hard time shutting them down (but I'm sure they'd try).
How about just having volunteers walk in and hand out all the radios, then set up OUTSIDE the Astrodome and use a directional antenna.
Tell the JIC to go fuck off and broadcast anyway.
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
If you lose control over information, you could lose control over the mass of people. I'm sure what they're worried about is the radio station broadcasting anything that's no in line with the message that the officials want heard. It's sad to imagine that our government has become more like China in this whole matter, caring more about saving face, and keeping the serfs in line than actually providing assistance.
AccountKiller
The real point is that the Astrodome does not need a new radio station taking up space, using resources, and wasting management's time.
/.
If there are important things to say that the refugees need to hear over the radio, why not get one of the dozens of existing radio stations in the area to broadcast it. If your message is really that crucial, it shouldn't be a problem finding someone to play it.
This is just a bunch of geeks that got told, "No, your idea won't actually help anyone", so they went and complained to
Communications for Survival and Self-Reliance
Pirate Radio Stations: Tuning in to Underground Broadcasts
Ignorance is amusing, stupidity is annoying.
As someone directly involved with this effort (as a member of the Amateur Radio Emergency Service), I can assure my fellow slashdotters that this is simply not an issue, much less worthy of a slashdot story. Although this sounds like a great idea on the surface, I can understand where the JIC or for that matter the Incident Commander would chose to deny this request.
What is not apparent to anyone outside Reliant City (as the astrodomain is now being called) is that it is utter CHAOS in there. It's not that the guests are anything but orderly, that the volunteers are anything but helpful, or that the involved agencies dont care, but there just isnt time for the responsible parties to even think very hard about it. Keep in mind that this is a gargantuan effort on the part of almost everybody involved - every agency I've come in contact with has expressed amazement at the vastness of the task and the speed with which it is being accomplished. And by now they are all pretty much exhausted. Sunday there were 25,000 guests on the ground - today it's far less than half of that. Meeting immediate needs is pretty much all that they can do. I alone have worked over 40 hours on this event since last wednesday, in addition to my regular full-time job.
It would certainly be wonderful if the guests were being entertained, or even efficiently informed. And when I first heard about this effort I thought it was a great idea. But providing a communications channel without professional guidance as to content and application could just as easily cause more harm then good. After the event there will be a great deal of effort to review procedures and decide what went right and what went wrong, and I really hope that this specific option is included in future plans. I think it is awesome that the organizers of this effort did so much, this option has a great deal of potential. But please dont assume that some "lower-level official" just decided to be mean or felt power-hungry - it is just as likley that they thought it was a good idea, but just didnt have the time to give it a chance or make sure it was done right.
Wayne Barker AD8A
Amateur Radio Emergency Service
Emergency Coordinator, SouthWest Harris County, Houston, TX
Hahahaha!
Of course, it was to control.
We put our elected officials in control. We give them control with their machine guns to keep out the hippie circuses.
If the military needs to disseminate information, IT INVENTED THE INTERNET for god's sake. They can invent a radio station if one is needed.
They are the ones elected to handle the crisis. Not your hippie circus or indie radio station.
Sounds to me like they think information is such an important resource that they want to control it. This radio station sounds like it might not be run by Clearchannel, and it might put out some information that might sound bad, so they have to clamp down on it right away to limit media outlets to government controlled spin.
Kind of like how the National Guard is preventing people from photographing the reportedly huge number of corpses in East NOLA.
http://organicwarfare.blogspot.com/
Intolerance for ambiguity is the mark of the authoritarian personality.
Not saying they do!
I'm just saying that crying these crockodile tears for the radio station that never was is a pathetic waste of slashdot time and energy.
Uhm, correct me if I'm wrong (and I know that someone will) but a local governmental body (city or county, or even state) can't block a radio station that already has FCC approval (i.e. a broadcaster's license). Right?
The only problem I could see is if the owner of the LPFM station was trying to use the infrastructure of the stadium (power, physical plant, etc) to run the station. That can be blocked by the entity responsible for the building without any recourse.
As I walk through the valley of death I fear no one, for I am the meanest sonova bitch in the valley!
As far as I understand the rules, local authorities do not have the legal power to stop a radio transmitter, since that is a federal matter.
So the officials that are refusing to allow it, are overstepping their authority and sooner or later someone else will come down on their heads like ton of bricks.
Oh well, what the hell...
they want to control all the information that's coming out of the area.
3 3103.htm
they don't want the rest of the nation to know that hundreds of THOUSANDS of people have died due to the direct negligence of this administration. they knew full well as far back as 2002 that new orleans would be in big trouble due to flooding and hurricanes. that's why they were in the middle of building levees. then all of a sudden the funding was cut off to pay for the iraq war.
there are many stories coming out of new orleans that the government and fema are doing all they can to prevent photos and news from leaking out rather than helping the afflicted. even stories of children being searched for cameras.
and just about every aid agency and foreign assistance is being turned away or being delayed as long as possible.
the fact that the rest of the world's news media are doing a far better job of covering this event than the US... is something to contemplate.
when they burned down fallujah and other cities and bombarded it with depleted uranium, which has a half life of millions of years..., and killed lots of civilians... it was ok with the US public. but when the administration redirected the funding of the new orleans levees to pay for the war and ended up causing the worst disaster in the history of the country... i just have to wonder why FEMA and this administration isn't doing everything it can to prevent the real death toll and damage assessment from coming out.
remember kids, war is good for the economy and ignorance is strength.
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/war_is_a_racket_0
http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
I know nothing about the range of low-power transmitters, but would the same results be achieved if the station was relocated just outside the Astrodome?
While there are obvious advantages to being inside the dome -- access to information -- being next door might be better than nothing.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Why does this statement make my blood run cold?
I love how the White House and its supporters speak out of both sides of their mouth.
Don't play the blame game, but it's all the state and local governments' fault.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
So FEMA was constructed and put in place using the Presidency, the Congress, and under the watchful eye of the Judiciary.
They will be the final arbiters of what can and cannot happen in the dome. If you do not like it, you need to elect representatives who can change the system.
A rag-tag group of washed up hippies cannot be alowed to over-ride federal control or military control.
I'm sorry, but this is the harsh reality of life.
Everything is not about your pleasure.
It is about a chain of command.
Of course, Faux News is a media behemoth while Indymedia and the Village Voice preach only to the choir. Left wing media my ass, corporate media and invisible fringe, that's all there is. Freedom of the press only applies if you own a big enough press.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
What part of "The local government must call for federal aid before federal arrives." don't you understand? The mayor of New York called almost immediately for federal aid.
George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.
This is NOT the federal governments fault.
If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about just keep your damn partisan bullshit to yourself!
George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.
You might want to check Snopes before you try to repeat urban legends as fact, lest we think you're a part of the current administration (who all seem to be so media illiterate that they probably can't spell snopes let alone look up to see if their information is accurate before spreading it).
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
This wouldn't be such a big deal if the dome-dwellers were kept informed of what was going on by FEMA or whatever agency in the first place. But from what I glean from the press, the people were getting absolutely no information on what was going on.
If you do not like it, you need to elect representatives who can change the system.
Part of electing representatives is voicing your opionions. Free speech is vital to the process.
If it is about chain-of-command then someone in that chain royally fucked up and will pay the price.
Google news
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
Please, my sides are hurting! Beaurocratic goverment employees are just as corrupt, if not more so, as elected officials. My step dad was very high up in the FAA, head of US security for all Central and South American airports that US airlines fly into. He told all kinds of stories of graft and corruption. To be fair, most government employees are merely lazy and incompetant, not actually corrupt, but there are enough really bad apples to spoil the bunch.
Tell me, when was the last time your department spent under its budget? How many last minute purchases did it take to spend every last cent? That kind of corruption happens everywhere. The more heinous kind only happens in departments with actual authority over something valuable. Bribes and more bribes, kickbacks, nepotism, you name it, I've seen it or heard first hand stories.
So take your hurt little attitude for a ride around the block while filing an expense report for three times the mileage, m'kay?
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
"Refugee Radio Station Blocked by Red State"
Had to do a double take and all is well now.
Who's "facts" do you believe? I heard on a news broadcast that GWB was trying to get the local officials to declare a need for federal aid. And you don't care to comment on the other parts of my post? The actual meat of the comment? How telling...
Good!
So the proper thing to do, would be to complain about FEMA loudly!
Say, "hey FEMA, *YOU* people need to set up a radio station because X Y and Z cannot happen until you do".
And we must bring pressure to bear on FEMA if they really should have a radio station but are not providing one.
Chances are though, I don't think they actually need one. But I could be wrong.
I do know for sure, they can't let someone else just "freelance" one.
. . . is to taunt police until they get their asses kicked.
It's a lousy job but somebody's got to do it.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
HuffingtonPost is now considered reliable and unbiased? You've got be kidding. That article does not speak to the FACTS that I brought up in my original comment. Perhaps you'd do well to follow your own advice?
Again, your arguments are meaningless.
1) If FEMA is corrupt, what guarantee do we have that these hippies are less corrupt?!?!?
2) If people need outside information THEY CAN GET IT from any other radio station / internet / bulletin board / flyer.
3) Name calling and Nazi references are a hallmark of a failing argument. Now, FEMA has been put in charge by the will of the American people. I'm sorry, but you will just have to deal with that nasty bit of information.
Um, come on, guys.
You want a radio station catering to the evacuees run by people who literally believe things like the Bush administration is not only responsible for the poor response[1], but is actually responsible for the hurricane itself? Or who would invite those who believe the levees were blown up by the government as a plot to remove all of the black people from New Orleans so the rich whites could take it over? (After all, they needed more room!)
Yeah, that'll really help the situation!
Bullshit. In an emergency housing situation, the infrastructure at the facility, the facility-wide loudspeaker system, and newsletters/handouts/flyers are *more* than enough to disseminate information. We don't need a bunch of self-righteous radicals inciting people who already believe the government wanted to kill them.
In an alternate reality where this station was allowed, run with the agenda that Houston IndyMedia and Village Voice certainly has, many evacuees would no doubt be incited, and the authorities would *still* be blamed for "not getting them out of temporary housing fast enough" or "not responding to their needs fast enough", even though Texas and Houston have gone completely out of their way to assist in any way possible.
I guess a lot of people can and do look a gift horse in the mouth.
[1] As an aside, someone said in other post "look at the difference between 9/11 and NOLA...rich white financial district, and help was there within 5 minutes", etc. Um, hello? Who responded to 9/11 in NYC itself? Local authorities. Who *didn't* respond in a satisfactory fashion in NOLA? The same. Oh, wait, let me guess: it's not a state and local municipal responsibility, it was somehow magically a federal one? Just sent thousands of people to a fucking convention center and football stadium with NO PLAN whatever, save "waiting for the feds"? Yeah, real smart, folks.
Is there additional requirements to broadcasting non-royalty free music? If I do decide to broadcast music then how much do I pay and to whom? I would LOVE to learn more about this.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
Who's "facts" do you believe?
Well, let's see the options. A well known website that debunks or supports urban ledgends based on sound research, or "news" programs well known for actually buying stories from the government. I think I'll take the first.
I heard on a news broadcast that GWB was trying to get the local officials to declare a need for federal aid.
And if you check snopes, that urban legend has been debunked. Yes, the administration itself has been trying to put forth that image to make a very bad excuse for not showing up sooner- and yes, elsewhere on Snopes you'll actually find support for such things as underwater buses and other mistakes made by local officials- but the point is to try to tell the truth, otherwise you do more harm to your side than is needed. And repeating stuff you heard on a single news program with no colaberation for the story? That's just drinking the kool aid without checking it for poison first.
And you don't care to comment on the other parts of my post?
No, because the other parts of your post were mere logical extensions of a fact that did not exist to begin with, and thus were invalid by extension.
The actual meat of the comment?
The actual meat of the comment seemed to be that local officials needed to call for federal aid before federal aid would be offered. The link to snopes in my message shows the real timeline that was recorded- and that it was actually 3 days between the local officials asking for a mandatory evacuation, declaring a state of emergency, and formally asking for federal help, all of which were done BEFORE the hurricane hit; and the federal government actually responding at all. It was an additional 2 days before NBC broke the news in an interview to the head of FEMA that there were people in the convention center- something that the entire rest of the country knew the entire time.
I'm sorry- the basic excuse of "but we couldn't go in until the local governments asked us to" falls completely flat on it's face- and that is obvious from the Snopes article on the subject that I linked to.
Like I said the first time- next time check snopes before you repeat urban legends you heard on the "news".
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
The mayor of New York called almost immediately for federal aid.
Yeah, but the Gov. of LA called for aid before the disaster. There is no way the mayor of New York called for federal aid before that disaster! Check the date of her memo. Asking for Federal Aid the day before the disaster is not enough time? Please explain your illogic.
Also Washington sat on a request for New Mexico's national guard to help out in LA: So why do you think it is not GW and the fed's fault?
Check out the date on this picture of our "wonderful" leader. (answer: 1 day after the huricane hit)
And don't get me started on the crony he picked to lead FEMA. If you pick someone you know is incompetent to fill a role, then you are to blame when their incompetence leads to lives lost.
Ah, I see now. Marxist, you believe quoting web site links as factual, informative, or justification for you "beliefs"?
Actually, it was just a convient story link for something I also saw elsewhere- including a big story back on August 27th in my local paper about the mandatory evacuation and declaration of State of Emergency.
And those were reports from some "reporter" analyzing said events out in Florida?!
Not only- partially, but there has been a lot more written on the subject than just that.
Hmm. Where's the real ignorance here? Some of us actually live along the Gulf Coast line and were actually there,
Yes- and nearly 275,000 of them actually believed the stories and got out before the hurricane under the mandatory evacuation order.
so go back to your precious little google repo for your "wealth" of enlightenment..
Better than watching obviously shilled news stories on television while your neighbors drown.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
What I want to know is, why don't they just use low power AM? You need *NO* license at all to do low-power AM broadcasting, and your signal should be strong enough to cover the 'Dome no sweat.
DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
What happened in New Orleans is a tragedy and the people there do need help. But let's not forget the people of Florida who have not yet recovered from last year's 4 hurricanes. They need as much help today as they did before Katrina. Don't send all the funds to New Orleans Peter Kuhn Lakeland Florida doublewidetrailer@gmail.com
Your post is so pathetic on so many levels. I'll be merciful, and point out just two:
The longer an isotope's half-life, the less radiation it emits in any fixed time frame. Depleted uranium, with a half-life of 500K years, is barely radioactive.
More to the point: You're so ready to blame the evil Republicans, and Bush in particular, with the destruction wreaked by Katrina. You don't care (did you RTFA?) that the microtransmitter in the Astrodome was blocked by the local authorities, led by Gov. Blanco (a Democrat) and Mayor Nagin (also a Democrat).
There's no reason why local radio stations can't provide the needed information. Even if the Clear Channel stations are not very helpful, I'm sure that local public/college stations could fill the need. And if the proposed transmitter is really powerful enough to require a license, there is no reason why these people couldn't provide adequate signal coverage of the area FROM OUTSIDE THE ASTRODOME.
Hasn't this place got a scoreboard with text capability?
Back in the early 1990s, 5 minutes out of every hour HAD to be public service announcements, by our educational charter. Those got VERY repetitive and boring after a while. The students at KTRU would likely be happy to have something else to read OTHER than the 200th announcement this term telling people to wear seatbelts.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
I *highly* suggest any US ciziten reading this article contact the FCC and voice your concern.
From http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html
To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail
Chairman Kevin J. Martin: KJMWEB@fcc.gov
Commissioner Kathleen Q. Abernathy: Kathleen.Abernathy@fcc.gov
Commissioner Michael J. Copps: Michael.Copps@fcc.gov
Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: Jonathan.Adelstein@fcc.gov
Via US MAIL or Fedex/UPS/etc:
United States Postal Service First-Class Mail, Express Mail & Priority Mail
Federal Communications Commission
445 12th Street, SW
Washington, DC 20554
The bush administration spun and spun, but the political pressure got to them, and they had to move him out of the way.
Sure, but do you think he'll get a large cash prize to go with his medal?
I mean this administration is known for going out of its way to reward incompetence.
and...
what guarantee do we have that these hippies are less corrupt?!?!?
--- SNIP ---
Name calling and Nazi references are a hallmark of a failing argument.
I agree with this last statement wholeheartedly.
"Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
A "refugee" is someone who is fleeing persecution from other people. Who are the "refugees" of which you speak and why did they go to the hurricane-damaged area seeking asylum?
If you meant victims of the natural disaster hurricane, that's another word entirely.
Bottom line, "normal" societial issues in the damaged area will be suspended until things are under control. That's the way it has always been and the only way thing work. These "volunteers" want to place braodcasting equipment in a damaged building from which they will broadcast whatever they want to people in the damaged area? How incredibly selfish of them. They would not only increase physical security issues for their equipment, as noted above, they'd bring confusion to the people and create more things for the authorities to try to watch. What absolute guarantees are there that these folks wouldn't broadcast erroneous information? This is not a time for civics 101, it's a time for survival.
If these people truely wanted to help, they'd offer themselves and their services are actual volunteers, not prima donnas who want a competing power during emergency times.
But they say we're free.
They can say whatever they want, and as long as people believe it it's truth.
It's the same classic thing over and over again.
What are you going to do about it?
Cool! Amazing Toys.
My Dad (R.W. Royall) made a Slashdot story?!?! Not to mention Wired news. That's awesome! If only it weren't a bit of a bash piece. I'll have to ask why no radio station. Sup with that Pops?
The part where it contradicts the National Response Plan. By the time you get to the second page it talks about "proactive" Federal responses to rare, mass-casualty events.
>George Bush had been trying to get the local government to declare a need for federal assistance.
I can't find a cite for this offhand but I did read that Governor Bianco (yes, she has a name, even if she is a Democrat) requested Federal troops on August 26 and a Federal state of emergency on August 27.
>If you don't know what the fuck you're talking about just keep your damn partisan bullshit to yourself!
Well, we can agree on that point.
A rag-tag group of washed up hippies cannot be alowed to over-ride federal control or military control.
The federal government and the military are not supposed to control the press. If you want to debate their percieved bias feel free to set up your own staion. Don't forget to get your license first.
It is a common misconception that the Bill of Rights grants rights. It is actually a non-exclusive list of rights people should already be in possession of, which is why there was so much debate over whether or not to include a "Bill of Rights" in the first place. John Roberts appears to share this common misconception, which is a real good reason not to support him as a Supreme Court Justice, much less the Chief Justice.
In related news, the Interdictor group is still doing its thing, transcribing the FEMA feeds into text.
a rchives
Please visit the WIKI here:
http://wiki.nola-intel.org/
Torrents provided here:
http://wiki.nola-intel.org/index.php?title=Audio_
user@host$ diff
Not on Bush/GOP Christmas card list.
New Orleans mayor didn't help out when he didn't use all those school buses which are now underwater to evacuate. The local and state people are the idiots and should take majority blame. The city is under sea level so you would think they would be prepared. Some of those people didn't even care. Good one Fats Domino , you stupid sack of shit.
Since its founding in 1979, the Federal Emergency Management Agency's (FEMA) mission has been clear
If you look at the top, you notice it's from August 27.
The things to ask yourself are
It may seem like a good idea, in the first few seconds, but providing a radio service of this sort in the case of a large-scale crisis is a medium term strategy, with plenty of need of coordination. The denial of the license in the short term isn't really surprising, isn't really news, and isn't really interesting.
In any case, as far as i can tell, from a long way away, the people who wanted the info would not have been able to get it from a source of this sort; it's not just the transmitter that needed batteries.
And there are lots of other problems with providing such a service. I doubt one single life was lost due to this broadcat denial (I can even see it going the otherway, particularly if the service were in the wrong hands, a possibility that the "lower down administrator" must have been acutely aware of).
The unwise slashdotter who promoted this feeble article into existence needs to self->terminate(weapon=revoltingSelfRighteousnessJ udgementalism).
Curious. I thought in a free country, "because I want to" was sufficient reason to be allowed to do anything, provided it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. Not to speak of something that might be potentially beneficial. Sigh.
sig fault
cooperating criminal cartels that have hijacked governments all over. No place in any constitution does it give total control of government to two political parties, but it sure as heck is set up that way now. They play act as being opposites in public, in private they just divvy up the spoils and run government as a fatcat easy jobs program service. Wouldn't bother me at all if an asteroid hit inside the beltway.
And to any people still voting for either of those gangs--why? Really, why? How many clues do you really need to see the system is so far corrupt that it is a total disaster? How many generations will it take to bingo to the fact that it's gone to despotism and incompetence? Isn't that a rather stupid and dangerous combination to keep supporting? How many 2 and 4 year voting cycles do you need to go through before you notice that NOTHING CHANGES? And working for them, "following orders"?? Double why? Don't you have any sense of deceny left, is a paycheck all that important? You can't be part of those gangs without compromising yourself, no matter how well intentioned or honest you might personally be, the system and your bosses are crooks, liars, thieves, murderers and general scumbags. And that is when they are being nice.
Get a real honest job, they are still out there. The system will not change as long as people support it. That is reality.
Working as a volunteer in Corpus Christi, Tx ( American Bank Center) everyone was glued to their hand held radios........Untill they turned the Jumbotron to CNN. There were few listening to radios after that. Things may be differint at the astro dome, and on a larger scale, but I think people would rather watch CNN/MSNBC/FOX/ETC.
-William
God is everything science has yet to explain.
tractor trailers could have done it, along with emergency trainloads, at least a shuttle to get them out of the immediate disaster area.
Here's a theoretical choice-stay in area about to get massive flooded, or ride out in a big trailer or on a boxcar. Give people the choice, let them decide. Big cities all over get 50 to 100,000 people in and out of sports stadiums all the time. In an emergency, you don't need a comfy padded seat, floor space is good enough, people all over the third and second world ride rough like that daily as a matter of course, sitting on the tops of busses or trains, etc. It's an option at least that wasn't used.
www.apple.com/ipod/
www.griffintechnology.com/products/itrip/
your very own low-power fm station...
"Evil will always triumph because good is dumb." -- Dark Helmet
The problem is, that FEMA is incapable of setting up such a thing. They are a bunch of bureaucrats. Do you think they could possibly set up a radio station that comforted the refugees?
It would take weeks of focus groups and bullshit, before they came up with some kind of corporate logo for their radio station:
Poochy, the FEMA Dog wants you to be safe! Don't be a loser, stay off drugs and hip-hop music. Go to school, nigger, and God will bless you with supplies.
FEMA is utterly incapable of understanding the situation or the survivors. A community-based radio station can deliver some for of comfort, entertainment and information that would help the situation and prevent unrest. Why would you let the people who are capable of providing this now in favor of a bunch of bureacrats who don't know their ass from their elbow?
Would you want to listen to a radio show produced by fucking FEMA??
... and then they built the supercollider.
freedom of the press.
freedom of speech.
these american citizens have every right to set up their own radio station.
... hi bingo
That is an important factor. However, as it looks, they have plenty of time to trickle-flow the radios in.
There is also the chance of causing administrative chaos when somebody allows shipping the devices in, and before it turns out that there is a missing signature or a proper one but on a wrong form, it is too late to undo. Large systems with too many people are highly vulnerable to social engineering. If it is made to look as a genuine mistake on the bureaucrats' side, there could even be nobody left to go after. They did enough screwups that ended up in not helping the people, so why not maneuver them into one that will force them to provide help against their will.
Maybe it won't work. But it could be worth to at least think about it.
Bureaucracy, like every system, has an inherent potential to be hacked. Just do not give up the hope.
what the fuck does it take to get fired in this administration?
i mean really... do you have to eat a live baby on the whitehouse lawn?
... hi bingo
A waste of "slashdot" time and energy? What the fuck does that mean? Are you saying that Slashdot should not discuss issues relevant to human beings trying to survive? You know, "News that matters"?
I think you just don't care about the survivors, and want to use any opportunity to push your partisan political bullshit. Considering the amount of trivial nonsense Slashdot wastes its time on, I don't think that trying to provide communications for suffering victims is a "pathetic waste" of time.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Wouldn't the army have something less than pleasant to say about that?
Urban Detail
Maj. Gen. Thomas Cutler, who leads the Michigan National Guard, said he anticipated a call for police units and started preparing them, but couldn't go until states in the hurricane zone asked them to come.
"We could have had people on the road Tuesday," Cutler said. "We have to wait and respond to their need."
The Michigan National Guard was asked for military police by Mississippi late Tuesday and by Louisiana officials late Wednesday. The state sent 182 MPs to Mississippi on Friday and had 242 headed to Louisiana on Saturday.
This is a better story for some of the reasons behind the delays. Best quote of the article: "Nobody told me that I had to request that," - Kathleen Babineaux Blancothe good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Let's not be so hasty: "FEMA can trace its beginnings to the Congressional Act of 1803. This act, generally considered the first piece of disaster legislation, provided assistance to a New Hampshire town following an extensive fire. In the century that followed, ad hoc legislation was passed more than 100 times in response to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other natural disasters." http://www.fema.gov/about/history.shtm
everyone get radios? are they handing out 10,000? clearly you have not been to the astrodome. they have a more than loud enough pa system to get over 60,000 people to hear something. not to mention huge scoreboards, and a few huge led screens they can announce things on. how will they charge the radios? will they have 10,000 outlets to use? we have a hard enough time getting 1000+ for a 500 seat lan party in a convention center that was made with a lot of outlets. the dome doesn't have plugs in the middle of the field. that sort of gets in the way. i never saw an astro or an oiler stop mid game, and plug in a walkman. guess what, the pain in the ass of getting the radios to everyone, and keeping them charged is enourmous. how bout we set up hdtv broadcasts in the astrodome. i mean come on, everyone brought hd tvs with them right? think about the actual problem before you start blasting texas officiala, and dome officials that have been kicking ass helping all of these people.
ignorance is bliss. googlefiberatx.com
One thing I learned a LONG time ago is: it's easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission. NEVER ask permission. Just go and do what yo u have to do. If some one doesn't like it, then OH WELL - deal with it.
ANd when you're in a completely INSANE situation, like Nawlinz, I am QUITE certain tha the FCC will NOT be monitoring the situation. And if they are, and shut you down, the political reprecussions would FAR out weigh whatever limited gain these ass-munching freaks would benefit from shutting your ass down.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Refugees seek refuge. Pretty obvious if you know anything about the English language. But, when you are calling efforts to help suffering people "selfish," then I guess perversion of the language is the least of your concerns. You might want to check your humanity quotient first.
... and then they built the supercollider.
Nah, they just up the terror level if they see any of their own doing that, and the panic and distraction keep the Press from noticing...
+++OK ATH
I've been looking at some photos from the statium, they appear to be doing a patdown search of everyone who enters. So they could give them to people outside, but coudn't sneak boxes of them in.
Maybe this "Refugee Radio - KAMP" would have been the best thing ever ... but how many people in the 'Dome even have radios now? Anybody got a number?
Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I don't think the terms are racially motivated.
Refugees are, quite literally, "ones who take refuge." As in, from a storm. The people who survived this disaster are quite literally taking refuge. Evacuees are people who are evacuated. First, in most cases these people had to get themselves out -- for some reason "evacuees" has the connotation that someone got you out, where "refugees" has the connotation that you left under your own power.
Secondly, "evacuee", besides being a more cumbersome word with all those vowels just crammed in there, means "one who evacuates." Evacuate has a "quick" feel to it. In a fire drill, you evacuate the building. The people standing outside are evacuees until they've stopped evacuating, at which point they become pedestrians or gawkers. You can't be an evacuee for a day unless you run very slowly and steadily, at some point you stop evacuating and take refuge.
At which point you become a refugee.
Expressing disagreement with the notion that the solution to all the nation's problems is tax cuts for the wealthy. Ask ex-Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill.
She's asking for federal assistance which is exactly what i said.
Who cares about michigan? What about the federal ok on the New Mexico guardsmen you ignored?
This is a better story for some of the reasons behind the delays. Best quote of the article: "Nobody told me that I had to request that,
Yeah, she is talking about ACTIVE duty military troops. The pentagon was saying that wednesday and thursday they were hesitant to send active duty troops in the area for law enforcement purposes. In the same article "While combat troops can conduct relief missions without the legal authority of the Insurrection Act, Pentagon and military officials say that no active-duty forces could have been sent into the chaos of New Orleans on Wednesday or Thursday without confronting law-and-order challenges."
Wednesday and thursday is a little freaking late.
Also, are you telling me that the Administration didn't tell her that they won't send troops until she asked? You think they were waiting silently for her to say the magic words without letting her know what the magic words were?
Here is the rest of the quote you convienently left out: In an interview, she acknowledged that she did not specify what sorts of soldiers. "Nobody told me that I had to request that," Ms. Blanco said. "I thought that I had requested everything they had. We were living in a war zone by then."
Yeah, if i wanted to be an asshole i'd quote head of FEMA Brown when he said "Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today (sept 1st)."
Right after Paula Zahn asks him "ZAHN: Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the Convention Center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?"
But i won't do that, because maybe that miscommunication that makes Brown look like an ass isn't his fault? It's hard to believe but maybe it's not.
The people you endorse to replace FEMA have no credentials. I'm sorry, I'll have to defer to FEMA.
Do these evacuees have radios to listen? I'm sure some do but enough to make this worthwhile?
I'm not knocking the idea of helping any way possible but this radio station idea reminds me of something that happened to me some years back.
Me and some pals started our own fan convention. Not important which one. I think it's still running. Anyway, one of the founders got the idea that we should have our own pirate radio station running during the convention. It was mostly an attempt to look cool -"we got our own radio station, girls will like us, or at least look in our general direction!"- mixed with simple ego.
The idea went nowhere thanks to cooler heads realizing that the convention attendees would be too busy doing other stuff instead of wandering around with walkmans.
Sig for hire.
You are a voter? Then you must have lost the election! ROFL!!!!!!
Actually, the military is the only thing that saved the people. And its the military who put people in orange jump suits. Not kids in their mom's basement!
Viva la revolucion! Viva la Reagan revolucion, biotch!
> The people you endorse to replace FEMA have no
>credentials. I'm sorry, I'll have to defer to FEMA.
Yes, because that experience as a horse show judge obviously qualified "Brownie" to do a heckuva job in NO.
I'll take my chances with the hippies, dickwad. I've been to hippie fests, and at least they know that people need food water and shelter.
... hi bingo
you are a disgusting piece of shit. how the fuck do you sleep at night?
you're prancinc aroudn like this is some type of fucking game, and that you've "won".
yay! you're politics cause death and destruction... GOOO TEAM!!! woooo!!!!
the government failed at its main job; to keep the populace safe. it failed.
... hi bingo
It is about a chain of command.
Just one problem with that: this is the US, not China. Censoring the press is not FEMA's job, disaster relief is. And people might not be complaining so much at the first if FEMA wasn't failing misearbly at the second.
The person responsible, Bob Royall, is a assistant chief of the Harris County (Houston) fire department. That's not a high enough political position to try to pull something like this. He's probably going to get wised up over the weekend.
People hate being called refugees because it has been turned into a dirty word by self-serving idiots and xenophobes, but the reality is people who need help that those who pick on the weak like to abuse.
If slashdot wants to help, they should stop crying about the fucking radio station and set up a Hurrican Survivor section on the board to post for people in the dome and give them special access.
Now *pleez* shut the fuck up...
nice anger! do you scream at a picture of Bush every night in your basement! ROFL!!!
I bet your mom doesn't like that...
Go back to your flea infested couch, you sick liberal. You people will tolerate anything. Child molester? You want to rehabilitate them.
But soon we'll have you all in orange jump suits.
Just one problem with that: FEMA wasn't censoring the press. They were preventing some whack-jobs from running a science experiment in the astrodome.
Mission accomplished!
They were not controlling the press. They were keeping some kooks from running a science experiment inside the astro dome.
FEMA and the uber department they now belong to do have the right to order people to stop trying to help out if they get in the way, or they don't trust them. They just can't expect us all to agree with them. In retrospect it would have been a lot better if the various agencies prepared to assist with the hurricane had just gone in instead of waiting to be told by FEMA - chaos is better than caring whose political toes you are stepping on. All we can do is keep that as a lesson for the next disaster and as an example to the world of what can go wrong.
We've been working on the Katrina missing persons wiki, PeopleFinder and this has allowed us to see some emails from people right in the red zone. There are some people from religious organizations looking to help those kept in the donated church cabin complexes, and seeing that its a goddamn FEMA detainee camp. These people are going to be treated like cattle, like people were in WW2, in Korea, in Vietnam.... My guess is we will not see many of them ever again, if any. For one person's experience, you can go here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/fema.html
Coral Cache: http://www.abovetopsecret.com.nyud.net:8090/forum/ fema.html
So, it comes as no surprise to me whatsoever that they are trying to keep all communications locked down. Nevermind the fack that FEMA=[pig-fucker]Cheney.
A couple fans told me that my last journal entry was mint; give it a shot. Hope you like.
... right up to the point that you find something you need to protest about. At which point, you'll probably discover that:
1) sometimes protest can be the only way to get your message heard, especially if the system you're protesting about doesn't like criticism.
2) not all, or even many, protesters are violent. They're just attempting to get a problem fixed either faster or in the longer term than the four-year cycle of democracy encourages.
3) the point isn't to be a nuisance, it's to draw attention to something you see as an issue.
4) that freedom is sometimes more important than cash, especially the freedom to draw attention to bad government.
5) that giving the government the power to create free speech zones will tend to result in said zones being created at the bottom of the Mariana trench, or some similarly inaccessible location.
6) that a "Free Speech Zone" is technically misnamed - it's actually a declaration that the rest of the area is a "No Free Speech Zone". If they were honest about their naming, I might actually support them in this cos I can see the point of, for example, not allowing protesters within 10 metres of someone under threat of assassination. However, the small size of the Free Speech Zones indicates that the No Free Speech Zones are being made excessively large.
7) "When a representitive of law enforcement makes it clear and in no uncertain terms that the gathering needs to dispurse and the protesters refuse to leave, regardless of the right to free-speech," how the hell are you supposed to exercise that *right* to free speech?
8) those that wish to here the protesters' message will only be able to if they know how to find the obscure area miles away from the action that said protesters are being corralled in. Which, again, rather defeats the point.
9) "These zones are in place for everyone's protection" unless you happen to be a protester with an allergy to razorwire. In which case, sucks to be you, and sucks to be ruled by a governmental system to which criticism can't be effectively applied.
Oh, and it's certainly not just liberals who feel the need to protest and picket.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
People talking about when who asked for what are fucking idiots. Yes, the governor did ask for aid in time, and the Feds ignored it because she didn't fill out the forms correctly or some bullshit, but that's completely irrelevant.
You see, the president can declare something a national disaster, and send in FEMA and troups, even the goddamn Army in addition to the Nat. Guard. No permission of local authorities needed, no Congresional oversight, no nothing.
Read that several times if you don't understand it. It's very very important.
It is now called 'An Event of National Importance', but the power's been around way before that, the 2004 law (That Bush's own cabinet came up with.) just combined the various national disaster, terrorist attack, and military invasion into one concept.
He can do anything for ten days, unless Congress makes him stop. I'll repeat: The president can literally take over parts of this country with the military (Not the National Guard, the whole military.) for ten days or until Congress says no. With no cooperation from the locals.
Obviously, if the local government doesn't like this, it won't coordinate that well with FEMA, but as FEMA's idea of 'coordination' is apparently 'do nothing whatsoever', that doesn't really seem important.
Jesus, people, there's a reason that FEMA was behind all the big conspiracy theories 10 years ago. The theory was that the President was going to fake a national disaster and take over certain parts of the country, because, under the law, he can. (Although, as the conspiracy theory people ignore, they're still subject to the various laws of this country and the local juridictions they're in.)
First person to mention any local response problems get a boot to the head. Yes, local governments tend to fail in national disasters. That's why we have FEMA, to come in and say 'Hey, we need you to send those resources there, and those over there', and any local failure doesn't excuse FEMA's complete and utter cockup.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
The power has always been around for military invasion. If the Japanese land in San Fransisco, or the English invade through New York, or the Omicron Persein land in Kansas, the Feds have always had the power to completely ignore any local protests and send troups into New York or California or Kansas.
It's just 'recently' has that concept been applied to national disaster. Where 'recently' means 'for decades'.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
The problem isn't that they have been 'evacuated', the problem is, in fact, they have been left without a place to live, and must take refuge elsewhere.
If their problem was being evacuees, we could just put them back and solve their problem. Evacuees are just people who have exited somewhere because they were forced to.
Evacuees were what the people were who drove out were before the city was flooded. When they could not return, or after they got evacuated after staying in the city, they became refugees, people who were left without a home, money, or possessions because of some outside force.
And refugees only had negative connotations if you were an asshole anyway. Maybe instead of worrying about what these refugees are called, people should stop thinking 'refugees' are bad.
Let's not blithely let people get away with the concept that 'refugees==bad'.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
They also, out of the goodness of their hearts, are giving away a large amount of radios. (Radios that could be tuned to any station, mind you.)
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
And another important reason is so the people in the dome can talk to them. Either so they can help, via announcements for people, and, hell, so people can walk up and request music.
And they've made repeated proofs they aren't going to use resources. The dome brought up power, they said they'd run it off batteries, the dome brought up people fighting over radios, they provided free radios. If there are any other concerns, the dome would only have to bring them up.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
They could, however, trivially walk up to a radio station that was broadcasting inside and 'post' announcements.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Low-level administrators are usually fearful of saying YES to anything that they can't control. I don't think you have to look for a more elaborate motive than that. It just seems to go with the personality type, which I refer to as "hall monitors." They are good at carrying out decisions made by higher-ups, but when asked to authorize something on their own initiative their default response is NO.
So you can fit the transmitter in your hand. Can you also fit the microphones, tape/CD players, hard drive for cuts, EQ, phone hybrid, network feed receiver, headphones and (most importantly) mixer in your hand?
Sure, you could run a radio station without sound (except for your call sign), but that'd be kind of silly, don't you think? You could also wire a lone microphone or an iPod Nano to a transmitter with a 1/8" patch cable, but the sound wouldn't be terribly good, and the flexibility to react to changing conditions would kind of suck.
KAMP was scouting a location to install in the Astrodome. That strongly implies to me that they intended to actually build a decent radio station with real equipment rather than this hypothetical cell phone sized station you sorta-kinda hint at.
Now, you failed to mention my point that this is expensive. It seems to me that if they've purchased 10,000 radios for the Astrodome "residents", they probably have the funding to purchase the stuff to feed a good signal. That kind of equipment does not fit in one's hand and costs enough money that looters might just be interested in it.
And to whomever modded my grandparent post funny: I hope you weren't also laughing when you heard New Orleans was underwater.
Really. I don't think we're talking about the same buses. Can you provide a link to a more detailed explaination of how this happened? Looking here, (click katrina button, see lower left) it sure appears as though those 150+ city buses were neatly parked and put away before the flooding. I hate how the right lies about things like the busses to make other folks look bad, as if saying, "But they screwed up too!" means the administration screwed up any less.
I hate how people take any attack on incompetent officials as a partisan effort just because the fools happen to align opposite politically of their preferred target.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Do you have access to the actual OED? If so, could you please post the citation, and that for 'displaced person' - I would like to see how they differ.
Regardless, I hold fast to the Wikipedia as the definitive source for /. purposes ... its transparency and timeliness alone give it greater credence in my daily life. (There is just nothing geeky about the OED ...)
BTW, if you don't tell us you're quoting the OED, how are we to take your appeal to authority seriously?
Hmmm. Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
No, the LA state emergency management officials should know the protocol for requesting troops from the Feds and other states. Apparently they didn't clue in Blanco what she needed to do to get it done. The New Mexico governor can offer all he wants. It doesn't matter until the LA state govt sends out the requests. The Michigan guardsmen were an example of resources sitting around twiddling their thumbs until the LA officials figured out what they needed to do in order to get help (hint: bitching and whining at press conferences isn't it.)
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
How is not allowing the press to even run not censorship? Moreso when radio is the purvey of the FCC, not FEMA.