The Portable Linux Based GP2X is Here

An anonymous reader writes "Today sees the opening of the Official GP2X Site where you can see the new console from Gamepark.com, who last brought you the GP32 a fantastic console for homebrew developers. This console is a major step up with Dual 200Mhz cpus and is basically a Portable Linux handheld that can easily do ports like Quake, Doom and Emulators like Mame. Its Open Source SDK gives all amateur and commercial Developers the ablity to release software on a brand new console like the old Amiga/Commodore 64 days. More screenshots of the GP2X can be found at GP2x news."

Comments

Pre-orders are already being taken...

[BluhDeBluh]

UK pre-orders for the machine are being taken at GP2X.co.uk (formerly GBAX) at £125 for the machine. It's shipping in October :)

Re:Pre-orders are already being taken...

[Anonymous Coward]

link doesnt work

Re:Pre-orders are already being taken...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can buy the gp2x in usa from gp32z.com and from gp2x.de in germany.
Check gp32x.com, the biggest gp32 commuity, iam sure you will find answers to all your questions there.

I will buy one...

[Nichotin]

... just because Gamepark actually encourages people to make homebrew apps, unlike other manufacturers.

Re:I will buy one...

[Jeffv323]

I am curious how open the hardware is to the developers. Could one conceivably replace the dashboard (for lack of a better term) with a port of, say, Xbox Media Center? I would be hard pressed to find a better application for that software, besides Xbox of course.

I am picturing filling a 1gb card with a couple movies and music, and jumping on a 3 hour flight. I imagine games will also come in SD format.

Re:I will buy one...

[Rude Turnip]

"Could one conceivably replace the dashboard (for lack of a better term)"

I can't be the only one wondering, "WTF is a dashboard" in the context of a game console?

Re:I will buy one...

[Aeiri]

My question is, is it the "GP2X" or the "GPX2"?

http://www.gp2x.co.uk/

Look at the actual device, it says "GPX2" on it, yet the rest of the site and everyone else is calling it the "GP2X"... O_o

Re:I will buy one...

[Anonymous Coward]

The term Dashboard became popular because of the Xbox. It's the interface and series of menus you get when you turn the system on without a game inserted.

Re:I will buy one...

[Kadin2048]

I'm kind of wondering the same thing, but based on context and the photos of the device, I think he means its "desktop" type file manager / graphical OS. Like the Finder on a Mac, I think.

Re:I will buy one...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was originally known as the GPX2 but the name had to be changed because the trademark was unavailable, so it became GP2X, not exactly imaginative but it was available.

Re:I will buy one...

[KillShill]

Gamepark just doesn't STEAL your access to your own hardware.

"homebrew" is a red herring. other manufacturers block access to your property through legal and technical means.

arbitrary code execution = "the right to read". that's the logical conclusion.

over the next 2-3 decades, DRM/Insidious Computing will creep its way through society (it's international) and will become more and more generally accepted.

enjoy these carefree days because your children won't be able to, not without paying a per-fee for everything.

want to take a picture of the run-down Statue of Liberty? sure, that'll be 20 bucks err credits. (why print worthless money when you can have worthless electronic credits instead).

being in the Eye of the Storm, it's hard to see where you are or where you're headed.

enjoy your DRM/Insidious lifestyle... unless you keep fighting back.

in the words of John Connor " there's no fate but what we make for ourselves". if you like having these artificial restrictions, then just keep it up. if on the other hand, you are reasonable, intelligent and have a lick of sense, you'll oppose it in all its forms.

no one is even remotely going to tell you that in the coming years we'll get LESS DRM. no, it will ONLY INCREASE. that is certain unless we fight those greedy sons of bitches who want to turn back the tide of property rights to the feudal age.

the most important first step is simply being mindful of the implications. it's virtually impossible to avoid DRM/Insidious Restrictions in this modern age unless you happen to live in a cave. so for now, enjoy the gadgets/computers/music/videos you already own. to deny geeks shiny electronic things is heresy and punishable by death. but i merely ask that you keep these matters in your immediate consciousness. when you buy that next gadget/shiny thing/etc try to remember what you are owed and what you are really getting through legal and technical restrictions imposed on you by the manufacturers.

that's the first step. knowledge and education is key. so pass on some information you have gathered from online resources to your friends and family. you don't have to sell it to them, just help them become aware of the sitauation a little bit more than they are. god knows the mainstream media won't tell them why DRM and Insidious Computing are not in their benefit.

http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/

http://www.drmadness.com/

remember, ALL DRM is about preventing the owner of the property in question from exercising their rights and preventing full access to what they legally and ethically own.

Capacity?

[Sorthum]

What kind of storage can you realistically get on SD cards? I have to wonder, given that most XBox/PS2 games are now pushing the 4-5 gig range. Quake was good, but a smidgen outdated.

I do realize there are games that are less than a gig, but does this have a realistic chance of becoming a mass market item?

Re:Capacity?

[crwl]

You can now get SD cards with at least 2 GB of capacity, and they're getting cheaper all the time. I wouldn't worry about the storage.

Re:Capacity?

[Nichotin]

You do realize that this is a handheld console? The storage capacity of SD cards should be enough for a lot of apps (emulators), some music, maybe an episode of American Dad, plus tonnes of snes, nes, and gameboy ROMS.

Re:Capacity?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not aiming at the mainstream market. It could never succeed there but for homebrew it's a killer device.

Re:Capacity?

[romiz]

What kind of storage can you realistically get on SD cards?

The theoretical limit of the format is 4 GB without formatting. Nowadays, it is commonplace to find 1 GB flash cards, or even 2 GB cards, but quite pricy (~60 $ per GB). Read-only cards, when produced in large quantities, would probably be less expensive.

I do realize there are games that are less than a gig
The size of a game doesn't make its quality. And we're still talking about portable games, where the UMD is the largest format to date, with only 1.8 GB...

Re:Capacity?

[Malor]

You can get 2 gig cards for around $140 now, and they're dropping fast. SD is a really good format... still thick enough to be tough, but easily tucked into a wallet or other small carrier. CF can store a lot more, but the cards are much less convenient.

Realistically, SD sizes aren't likely to be a drawback. As an example, my entire Thief2 installation, including the unofficial T2X mod (which is a bit uneven, but really amazing for a fan remake), weighs in at about 1.8 gigs. That's voice, movies, and everything. The T2X directory itself is about a gig, and that's about the best fan-made product I know. I doubt you'll see anything homebrew that's *better* anytime soon.

Remember, the Gamecube's disks only hold 1.8 gigs, and they've done some seriously amazing stuff with that machine.

Many other possible issues with the GP2X, but the size of SD cards isn't one of them. :)

Re:Capacity?

[donscarletti]

Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 was far less than a gig (about half of one) and managed to have some pretty cutting edge content. Oh, and one must remember that the gamecube disks don't fit much more than 1 GB.

Re:Capacity?

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that CF cards are inconvenient. They are so much bigger than the SD cards. My camera uses CF and I have to call my neighbor to help me lift it out of the camera when I want to transfer files to my computer.

Re:Capacity?

[n3owj]

The device they stole the design of had a CF slot so that you could put in a microdrive. They changed it to SD to be different. The idea was not to make a user who did not want high capacity pay the cash or battery drain it required.

Re:Capacity?

[merreborn]

Hah, $60/gig pricy? I payed $100 for a 32 meg of flash in 1999.

Re:Capacity?

[Jozer99]

You would be supprised what everthing has now. UMD is 1.8GB, Nintendo DS cartiridges vary, but are well into the 100's of MBs. The thing is, the stuff that takes up lots of space is video textures. These tiny consoles don't have the power to display tons of texures, hence less need for space. I don't think any developer right now is whining about the limits of either format.

Re:Capacity?

[tabrnaker]

I remember trying to save $1600 for 16 megs of ram. Better than one of those $10000 10 meg harddrives my dad had.

Borked link

[Anonymous Coward]

Working link here: GP2X

Re:Borked link

[rm999]

original works for me

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

My freaking phone can do all these things, why would I want another device?

Re:So what?

[mike_sucks]

Your cellphone runs Linux? It comes with a free SDK so you can make your own games? It has a SD slot and USB? It has a 3.5" screen?

Re:So what?

[pcgabe]

Your cellphone runs Linux? It comes with a free SDK so you can make your own games? It has a SD slot and USB? It has a 3.5" screen?

You mean yours doesn't?

Re:So what?

[bitspotter]

Does it cost USD$226 ?

Re:So what?

[mike_sucks]

Sadly, no. Mine is more like: Symbian, Free SDK, Memory Stick Duo slot and faux USB, a 1.5x2" screen.

Many of these arrive?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope this is at least three of them or else I will never buy!

Very idea though many hopes to your luck.

Re:Many of these arrive?

[Nichotin]

Uhm. I will have to guess what you mean by your post. If you are referring to the amount of available units, I'd say that Gamepark did pretty well with the supply for the GP32. GBAX.com did run out of stock a few times, but there were never any critical shortage of units for a longer period of time.

Battery Life

[Jeffv323]

With two processors and a screen as big as it is, how long will 2 AA's last I wonder?

I think it would be fantastic to see this take off, perhaps it could jumpstart open source games. (yeah yeah insert comment about Tuxracer)

Re:Battery Life

[Anonymous Coward]

From the site:

"It takes 2 AA batteries, but gives you 6 - 10 hours from them. No need to worry about having to recharge when outside. Everywhere has AA batteries."

Re:Battery Life

[bersl2]

At six times the lifetime per battery, at least it's better than the Game Gear.

Re:Battery Life

[Zoidmann]

According to the official site:

It takes 2 AA batteries, but gives you 6 - 10 hours from them.

Re:Battery Life

[Hurricane78]

The GameBoy DS has two processors too. And two screens... Just to create a relation...

Re:Battery Life

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this "gameboy DS" you speak of?
Did you mean the Nintendo DS perhaps?

No wifi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The description page is quite very short. Is the controller analogic ?

Also, there is no wifi ? That would be a great feature.

Re:No wifi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

they said wifi could be possible with a wifi-SD if someone develop linux drivers for the card

Re:No wifi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just "analog". Unless, that is, you were asking how the controller works as an analogy.

Re:No wifi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops. I meant that the word you're looking for is "analog." The pad on the GP2X is still digital.

um..

[metricmusic]

seems in some ways a downgrade.

they went from a 4inch screen to a 3.5 inch one. screen res went down and they took out the wireless.

Re:um..

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you smoking? The GP32 had a 4/3 3.5" screen, the same size of the GP2X, however the new device has much more memory and CPU power.

There is no "downgrade" and I am rather happy with the (small) design, as it makes the GP2X very portable.

Re:um..

[metricmusic]

I'm look at this page (http://www.gp32x.com/gpx2xgp.php) which compares the two handhelds. Is there another page I should be looking at?

I like big screens too. I read a review the other on the gb micro that just came out and while the guy said the screen is a lot nicer rpgs are difficult becausethe text is too small. I mainly play rpgs so I think I'll be giving that one a miss and sticking with the sp. the gp2x looks appealing though.

Re:um..

[mangobrain]

I think the parent was talking about it being a downgrade compared to the original GP32, not the XGP (the "other" console on the link you posted), which is an entirely different, also new handheld. I don't know the details, but the original Gamepark is now split into two companies, each releasing a different product.

Re:um..

[geekmule]

If you dig rpgs and screen size matters, you should check out the Nintendo DS now. I held off buying one until last week, but now with the release of Advance Wars DS, and everything that's being released over the next few weeks for the DS (Castlevania DS, Lunar, Touch Memory, Trauma, etc.), and with the price drop to $129, I broke down and bought one. And I'm very happy I did. Advance Wards DS is awesome, even better than the earlier AW games for the GBA. Nintendogs is also a lot of fun.

Re:um..

[Anonymous Coward]

Both gp32 and Gp2x has 3,5" screen

And GP32 had RF-link, not WIFI

Storage

[CZA2006]

I'd rather have a HDD, or a method of attaching a HDD. SD cards just aren't enough for movies.

Re:Storage

[DarkOx]

Its got USB 2.0. You can attach a harddrive pretty easily that way and it would be plenty fast for loading games or watching movies.

Re:Storage

[myc_lykaon]

I'd rather have a HDD, or a method of attaching a HDD. SD cards just aren't enough for movies.

Remember that the device native resolution is 320x240 and it supports DivX. After re-encoding, I'd be surprised if a full length movie occupied more than 350M. On my phone, I have 3 movies encoded on a 512M SD stick. The screen isn't much smaller than the GP2X and it's OK quality.

On the other hand if you were using its device to TV link to play movies, I'd agree that a 2G stick isn't going to hold many movies, assuming it can output at 640x480 native. Probably about 4 movies max.

Re:Storage

[Anonymous Coward]

You are assuming that's a "USB 2.0 on the go" where it can function both as host & peripheral...

Re:Storage

[ksenos]

I gues that this is a USB 2.0 device port. It is used to connect the GP2X to the PC and not the other way. I hope I am wrong...

Re:Storage

[Anonymous Coward]

It can be used as host & peripheral but the problem is it wont be powered by the unit if used as host.

Awesome

[rm999]

Wow, this looks really cool. I especially like the AA batteries. I have about 10 rechargeable AAs and could easily pack them with me on vacation and keep this thing going for a long time. Not something you can do with proprieatary batteries

Re:Awesome

[fireboy1919]

Yeah...'cause keeping extra AA batteries around is far more convenient than plugging your gaming device into an outlet when you're sleeping or driving...

Oh, wait...no it isn't. Why is it better, again?

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because you can find AA cells everywhere?

Maybe because it is very convenient to just put in a new set of AA cells and go on viewing and gaming?

Maybe because in a few years the GP2X can still be used while any Li-Ion, propritary battery driven devices become useless paperweights? (Lifetime of a Li-Ion battery is rather limited)

Re:Awesome

[bufalo_1973]

Think about going to a place where there is no power plug (remember: cities don't cover the whole Earth), maybe for a weekend. With 4-8 hours each pair, taking 8 batteries lasts until you come back home. And more important: what if you have your console running well in 2015? If it uses AA batteries you can buy other pack and play. If it runs with a propietary battery you are out of luck.

Re:Awesome

[Halfbaked Plan]

What is the point in going to places where there is no power plug if you're going to lie in the tent playing some electronic game?

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the point of arguing 'til your point of view is "right?" Some people like to play video games for a couple hours before fishing. Some people play video games while sitting around a campfire. Some people, you for instance, do not. It's a preference thing.

Re:Awesome

[rsborg]

Wow, this looks really cool. I especially like the AA batteries.

Damn, this does look cool... but Actually, I'm not so hot for AA's, since standard AA's aren't recylable, and NiMH rechargeables have bad power curves and frequent charge requirements.

However, if the AA case happens to support CR-V3 batteries, then I could add a rechargeable CR-V3 Lithium-Ion... which would probably take the battery life to stratospheric heights... not to mention the incredible shelf-life of lithium.

Re:Awesome

[rm999]

I was thinking specifically of airplanes. I frequently make 30+ hour one-way plane trips (obviously including layovers). Airplanes often don't have outlets.

Also, my car doesn't have an outlet. And I don't neccesarily want to buy and carry around a car adapter for all my electronics.

Re:Awesome

[bufalo_1973]

Maybe because you have to go with your family but you don't like the place? Or maybe you go to the beach and instead of reading a book you want to play a game?

support

[martin_lovick]

.....and where is the commerical support and release games?.....NEXT

And I thought the PSP was cool...

[Gizmoguy]

This makes the PSP look like a C64 when compred to the GP2X. Can the PSP play Quake? Well, sure, it's got Wireless, but you can't really program for the PSP as it's not a well known architecture or OS, whereas the GP2X's Linux means virtually anyone can program it. Basically, the GP2X is a potable PC.

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[another_mr_lizard]

well you better tell that to the folks in the homebrew PSP scene.....

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you better tell any kid running the PSP 2.x firmware (which is the default in Europe now) who tries the homebrew stuff in vain...

Face it - the PSP is not open and never will be. Sony is out to keep the PSP a closed system, they will do so by forcing updates.

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, the GP2X is a potable PC.

WTF?! You can drink it?!

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[rmdir -r *]

Basically, the GP2X is a potable PC.

I really doubt that. Most gaming systems were never meant to be consumed.

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[subjik]

It should be "This makes the GP2X look like a C64 when compred to the PSP." since looking like C64 is a compliment.

Anyway I'll pre-order one of these from Seoul :)

Re:And I thought the PSP was cool...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh yeah? Then why are customers called "consumers"? Duh.

Resolution

[Jeffv323]

I'm a bit miffed on the resolution of the device. The big bold text claims 720x480, while the specs say 320x480. I am going to guess that it's the latter, as 720 on a 3" screen would be a really expensive lcd.

Re:Resolution

[saldek]

And a bit further on :

Yes that's right, this handheld can connect to the TV, console style. Watch your DivX movies on the TV. Play emulated classics on the TV. Try big screen Quake. Or just play them all on the GP2X's large 320*240 backlit screen. You get the best of both worlds.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

the LCD has 320x480 resolution but the machine can play divx files upon 720x480.

For example, as divx players for the TV, they cannot manage every resolution, they have a top one.

You'll see the films and games in 320x480

Re:Resolution

[n3owj]

When we built the unit it was copied from, we could not get anything better than 1/4 VGA (320x240) in that size, they just copied our business plan. We found that most windows and dos games that played well in a handheld device worked fine in 1/4 VGA with appropriate image compression technology. The games that really needed the high resoultion were too complex for a handheld device or too slow on a 1ghz processor.

Re:Resolution

[magli]

The big bold text is referring to the fact that it can play videos in this format, which is why it has "Divx, wmv, ac3" written under it. seemed quite clear to me.

Re:Resolution

[net_bh]

You might want to check out the Nokia 770 which has a 800x480 res at approximately the same size.
Disclaimer: I am associated with its development

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason they went with a 320x240 screen is because the primary use of the new console, as with the old one, is emulation. 720x480 widescreen doesn't help much when you're running mostly 320x240 apps.

There was a huge discussion at the gp32x.com forum about this. There was a lot of worry, before the spec came out, that the resolution of the new system would be too high and thus not worth getting.

Try running an SNES emulator on a Tapwave Zodiac and you'll see what I mean about too high resolution.

Re:Resolution

[Anonymous Coward]

320x240 is too small to play Secret of Mana and some other SNES games. :(

Re:Resolution

[EternityInterface]

It only has the higher rez at the starting screen.

Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Neo-Rio-101]

I'm curious if twin CPUs is enough to handle the likes of Doom and Quake full speed. I'm using a Sharp Zaurus (Linux PDA) with a 400Mhz+ ARM processor. On it, Doom is a bit jagged around the edges. A Gameboy Advance ROM barely gets off the ground. I'm sure the likes of a Commodore 64 is possible though, but I'd hope the thing is fast.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Tim C]

When Quake was originally released, my housemate had a PC with 64MB of RAM and a 200MHz Pentium Pro, and I remember Quake running just fine.

Of course, when he later downloaded GLQuake it ran like an aboslute dog without a 3d accelerator card, but that's a different story...

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[mike_sucks]

A bit rough around the edges? Have you tried turning AA on?

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that's plenty of horsepower. See e.g. the Doom port for the (current) GP32 which runs perfectly at fully speed and the new Duke3D port to the Tapwave Zodiac also perfect on a single 200 MHz ARM CPU.

The GP2X has two of these...

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[metricmusic]

I had an s3 at the time and had the same problems. :) I wish there was a port of the Mechwarrior series to handhelds.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

The controls for MW are too complex for a handheld, IMO.

I remember using at least 20 different keybinds.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

you will be getting full speed NES and SNES with this platform, and a well optimized/coded GBA emulator would be able to play most games acceptably. I think it is kind of a mistake to have dual CPUs tho...that will make it harder to port emulators that make use of both CPUs. Emulators and games are more suited to a single threaded, single CPU environment. Fortunately, I have faith in the community and I do not doubt this will be a nice device. People got quite far with the old gp32.

Pocket PCs are up to over 600mhz now and they can play genesis, NES,SNES,some GBA(not spectacular yet, but theres no well made emulator for it yet), and even some PSX. Of course it emulates older systems as well like commodore 64 and such. My 400 mhz pocket PC runs SNES full speed, but the buttons are not well suited to gaming. Its best to stick with RPGs instead of twitchy games like sidescrollers and fighting games. Its a shame, as the software platform is so great, and the internal hardware is fast, but the lack of good buttons and d-pad is infuriating :p

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[bani]

your ppro has 256k (or more) l1 and l2 cache. it can also issue and execute instructions out of order. the strongarm has none of these features.

the cache alone makes an enormous difference, the out of order execution on top of that results in a cpu which is about 50% faster than the strongarm right off the bat.

not to mention -- much of doom was hand coded x86 assembly. the zaurus arm port obviously can't use that, and afaik no arm assembly equivalents have been written so the doom port uses straight C.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Hurricane78]

> I wish there was a port of the Mechwarrior series to handhelds.

And how would you control the game?

I remembered using the joystick for the feet, the keyboard for the commands and modes AND the mouse for the torso. And i still could turn the head with a coolie hat on the joystick.

There's no way i could imagine *such* a handheld-controller! ;)

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[bhtooefr]

some GBA(not spectacular yet, but theres no well made emulator for it yet)

Which goes to my idea. An ARM virtual machine. Should work fine, seeing as this has an ARM9-class CPU, which supports all of the instructions of the ARM7 in the GBA, IIRC.

So, only the graphics hardware, controls, and I/O would be emulated. The processor wouldn't be emulated at all.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[Anonymous Coward]

your ppro has 256k (or more) l1 and l2 cache. it can also issue and execute instructions out of order. the strongarm has none of these features.

ARM9 has cache: 32K total for ARM920T, 16K for ARM940T. (both split in half for code/data) Keep in mind that instructions are smaller and simpler on ARM as well. And don't underestimate the power of four times the number of general purpose registers. (Not to mention that compilers have improved in the meantime.)

No, I think the GPX2 has the power needed for Quake. You've got 2-200MHz processors and you only need to render to 320x240.

Re:Dual 200Mhz, is it enough?

[runderwo]

PPro has 8k instruction 8k data cache, and 256k-1MB of full speed L2 cache.

As for running Quake, I have a P120 laptop which does that just fine. No, not GLQuake, but at 320x240, who cares?

Harddrive?

[Fusen]

Now that harddrives are becoming so small and the price isn't that bad, I reckon they are really limiting their device by just supporting SD, especially when they try and flog it off as a portable movie player. I'm sure if they stuck in 20gb hdd and had to add a tiny bit onto the overall width people wouldnt moan and you'd probabaly get more sales out of it

Re:Harddrive?

[tpgp]

Now that harddrives are becoming so small and the price isn't that bad, I reckon they are really limiting their device by just supporting SD, especially when they try and flog it off as a portable movie player. I'm sure if they stuck in 20gb hdd and had to add a tiny bit onto the overall width people wouldnt moan and you'd probabaly get more sales out of it

1) HDDs have moving parts and are prone to failure in portable devices.
2) HDDs have moving parts requiring more power - a nono in a portable device.
3) SD == expandable - need more storage? Buy another card. You will be able to buy a 4Gig SD card next year for next to nothing.

Frankly, I think the lack of a HDD is a good thing - I would kill for a mp3 player with a CF slot....

Re:Harddrive?

[Maqueo]

I would kill for a mp3 player with a CF slot....

Here you go. I want my mother-in-law dead. Make it painful and slow.

Kidding aside, I've had one of these for about 18 months and I'm very happy with it.

Re:Harddrive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check: http://www.pc-profi-siegen.de/Src/images/Angebote/ Vivanco.jpg

No hd, you can take as much data with you as your wallet allows. It's just that the firmware is crap:
no mp3's > 256kb/s
"random" playing isn't random: 3x the same song in a row did happen

BUT! no hd :)

Re:Harddrive?

[AaronLawrence]

You're right, no major company would dare to put a hard drive in a portable device.

Re:Harddrive?

[Fusen]

yet all major mp3 players and more specifically portable movie players have harddrives in them... I do not want to have to keep buying storage, even a 5GB harddrive would be better than having to fork out $$ for enough sd cards to sufficiently fit all my movies, mp3's and any games on them.

Re:Harddrive?

[jamesangel]

Yep, and my iPod HD failed as soon as the warranty was up.

Re:Harddrive?

[tpgp]

You're right, no major company would dare to put a hard drive in a portable device.

*shakes head*

Do you Apple Shills have some sort of rule that states every time there is a discussion about mp3 players you have to mention the ipod no matter how irrelevant?

Just so you know, HDD ipods are all but useless for jogging/mountain biking/any other sport with a bit of rough & tumble.

Most people I know with an ipod use it to carry their entire music collection to a party or whatnot (and plug it into a wall socket). They have a shuffle or some other sort of player for for real portability.

Furthermore, it looks like Apple is moving away from HDDs and onto solid state.

Re:Harddrive?

[tpgp]

Thanks very much Maqueo, that does indeed look like what I'm after...no ogg - but flashable firmware, so maybe one day!

Looks they sell them in Europe too :-)

Re:Harddrive?

[tpgp]

Frankly, I think the lack of a HDD is a good thing - I would kill for a mp3 player with a CF slot....

Here you go. I want my mother-in-law dead. Make it painful and slow.

Well I didn't say who I would kill now did I? To clarify:

I would kill the first person to mention an ipod in reply to this comment for a mp3 player with a CF slot.... :-)

Re:Harddrive?

[KDR_11k]

even a 5GB harddrive would be better than having to fork out $$ for enough sd cards to sufficiently fit all my movies, mp3's and any games on them.

There's a reason SD cards are random access, not write-once.

Re:Harddrive?

[Anonymous Coward]

SD Fanboy!

heh.. sorry, couldn't resist after seeing your sig.

Re:Harddrive?

[Russ Nelson]

why do you want a CF slot? How about the MyMusix? It's only 50% bigger than a CF card and as thick as four. Uses one AAA battery. Has backlit LCD screen and comes with a 1GB SDcard. Has USB and presents the card as a USB thumbdrive.
-russ

Re:Harddrive?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately, the NEX IIe has been discontinued and it looks like Frontier Labs is moving to SD. Furthermore, they've been promising ogg support since shortly after I got my NEX II and it never materialized.

Re:Harddrive?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's got a USB 2.0 port, why not hook up your iPod and use your massive personal MP3/Storage device?

DS games are only 256MB max

[_KiTA_]

IIRC, DS games are only 128 Megabytes (1 gigabit) in size, max. So, pretty darn big. I may be off -- it may be 1 Gigabyte (8 gigabit), but still... SD cards aren't exactly 1.44 meg floppies, ya know. ;)

I think someone needs to get out more...

[TheRaven64]

The `screenshots' in the link look more like photographs than captures of the device's screen. I think the article submitter might need to spend some time away from the computer, and realise that not everything in the world is displayed on a screen...

Lame video

[sucker_muts]

I hoped to see a great video with some actual footage of the handheld in action, but alas it's just a guy rotating the device in front of the camera. Bummer.

video link

Re:Lame video

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.gpx2.com/product/product.asp is the offical site for gamepark holdings. GPX2 was the development name till they changed it.

http://www.gpx2.com/pds/pds.asp more videos here although they are HUGE in terms of filesize even though they only last a few minutes.

At the moment a lot of the GP32 developers have hands on devkits and sdks already

Re:Lame video

[Kadin2048]

And more's the irony, with all their talk about open formats, they release a video that's a WMV.

What the hell -- are they not capable of producing an MP4? Or how about a good old AVI?

The one saving grace is that they don't use that abominable WMV3 codec, but still, the use of the format is completely unnecessary.

No open source drivers

[bug1]

It says it uses SD storage, that almost guarantees there wont be open source drivers.

Usually SD slots can be used with open mmc cards.

Poor choice of storage...

Re:No open source drivers

[Malor]

What crack are you smoking? I've been using SD cards with Linux for years. If you don't have a device that uses the security features (nearly all of them), then it just works like any other flash device would.

It might be possible to lock content on an SD card so that it wasn't accessible from Linux, but one you purchased blank and formatted yourself isn't going to give you any problems.

Re:No open source drivers

[bug1]

And you have open source drivers for the SD card reader ?

Re:No open source drivers

[bug1]

"If you don't have a device that uses the security features (nearly all of them), then it just works like any other flash device would."

You mean it works as an mmc card, you can get open source mmc drivers, not open source sd drivers.

Re:No open source drivers

[Malor]

I use a 4-in-1 reader and it just works. With everything. I don't have it handy right now to look at, but it was a $25 or $30 job at Best Buy. (I *think* the brand name was ImageMate, but that could easily be wrong.)

Support's built right into the kernel. Plug it in, wham, it works. No hassle. Each slot looks like a different SCSI device. I've used it for both CF and SD and it works fine.

Via VMWare, the built-in card-reader on my monitor also works perfectly with OpenBSD and with Linux, both for CF and SD. I presume it would work if I plugged it straight in, as well, but I don't run Linux directly on this machine.

I've had NO problem using multiple SD cards with Linux for years. I don't know where you guys are getting your info (and/or your readers), but there's no reason whatsoever for it to be difficult. It's such a no-brainer that I am completely confused why we're even having the conversation.

Re:No open source drivers

[Malor]

It JUST WORKS. Plug it in and you're good. You don't have to think about SD or MMC, you just get a universal reader, plug it in, and off you go. The SD encryption features aren't used by any device I know of. You can argue semantics about it "being used as an MMC card", but no normal human cares about that. They want to plug it into the computer and have it work. If you buy an SD card, that will happen. That's all that matters.

SD is better than MMC anyway... the MMC cards are so thin they're pretty fragile. SD is quite robust. I have been carrying a card in my wallet for the last two years, and it's none the worse for wear. And you get a nifty write-protect tab, which I like very much.

If I understand your anti-SD objection correctly, you're upset about something that's totally irrelevant.

Re:No open source drivers

[bug1]

From wikipedia

"Like most memory card formats, SD is covered by numerous patents and trademarks, and licensing is only available through the Secure Digital Card Association. The SD Card Association's current licensing agreement does not allow for open-source SD drivers, a fact that generates a fair amount of consternation in the open-source and free software communities. The usual workaround is to develop an open-source wrapper for a closed-source SD driver available on the particular platform, but this is far from ideal. Another common workaround is to use the older MMC mode, which all SD cards are required to support by the SD standard."

"This means that SD is less open than CompactFlash or USB flash memory drives, which can be implemented for free but require licensing fees for the associated logos and trademarks, but far more open than xD or Memory Stick, where no public documentation nor any documented legacy implementation is available."

Re:No open source drivers

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you actually read what you cited?

Another common workaround is to use the older MMC mode, which all SD cards are required to support by the SD standard.

That's how it works with open source drivers.

Re:No open source drivers

[Malor]

So all SD cards must support MMC mode. MMC mode works. Therefore....(left as an exercise for the reader).

I did say, if you notice, that nothing uses the encryption capability of the card anyway. It doesn't *matter* what the internal protocol is, as long as it works to do what we want, which is store and retrieve data. I can take an SD card, plug it into an SD slot, and it just works. That's all I really need. You can think of SD as MMC in a better package, with a write-protect tab.

If they change the rules at some future time, and start shipping SD cards that don't support MMC mode, we can switch formats to something else. All our existing cards will keep working. It's not like they're going to wave a magic wand and remotely disable the ones we already have.

And:

A) It's exceedingly unlikely that they would be able to force all the manufacturers to stop supporting MMC mode;
B) Even if they COULD, the screaming would be so loud that SD would be destroyed as a standard. They're not likely to do that.
D) Linux users, relatively speaking, buy lots of hardware. SD's manufacturer may not want us to have access to the encryption stuff, but we have better software to do that anyway. Why would they blow off a big chunk of the market by changing the rules when they didn't have to? They've got it nailed now... the cards work in vanilla mode for everyone, and encrypted mode for people who have paid for a license. That's a great setup. Why on earth would they change?
C) Real MMC works in SD slots anyway, so if they DO pull a boneheaded move and try to shut us out, we can just buy native MMC.

I don't see any possible downside here. Do you?

Re:No open source drivers

[Kadin2048]

I agree with you on everything but point C. Real MMC cards were pretty much killed by the switchover to SD cards. I don't know of anyone that's manufacturing them anymore.

I believe the deal was that no plain-vanilla MMC cards would be manufactured with a capacity greater than either 128 or 256MB. I don't know if that was a tacit agreement on the manufacturers' parts, or if that was just the point in the product's life when they switched over to SD ... but I've never seen a large MMC card.

On the MMC Association website's FAQ, there is a line regarding capacity which states:
Q: What is the largest amount of memory I can buy in a MultiMediaCard today?
A: MultiMediaCards with up to 128Mbytes of memory are available now. 256Mbytes version will be available in 2003.

Re:No open source drivers

[iburrell]

You two are talking past each other. His card reader is USB. Linux talks USB Mass Storage to it and it handles talking to the SD card. The USB Mass Storage driver is definitely open source. You are talking about drivers for an integrated SD/MCC slot. These use a completely different driver. The open source ones only talk MMC mode, but they can still read SD cards but not use the fancy features. There are companies which sell binary Linux drivers for SD and SDIO.

Re:No open source drivers

[alanh]

I have a 512 MB MMC card in my cell phone right now. It came as a deal with a Palm Zire 72.

Re:No open source drivers

[KillShill]

you can also not financially support DRM by not buying inSECURE digital technology.

compact flash is cheaper and more robust and is free of Insidious Computing Inside. (pronounced icky).

so you support OPEN source but not OPEN hardware.

maybe you can change your alignment at a local shrine. i hear they don't charge for first timers.

it's not wise to prop up the rope companies who are looking to hang you.

Re:No open source drivers

[Malor]

But they don't really have any power over me. The fact that this gizmo has extra functions I can't use is pretty much irrelevant to me. I don't care about those functions. And they're not going to be turned on against my will. They don't have a magic wand that will suddenly lock me out of my own data.

I just don't see what the issue is here. This isn't Bitkeeper, where I'm using the product at the sufferance of an asshole. They can't take my cards away or make them stop working... so what's the problem? What potential drawback am I facing by using this format?

Re:No open source drivers

[KillShill]

you make it possible, in a small way, for them to continue making DRM-crippled products.

i'm just saying, in these, the DRM dark ages, we must be ever more vigilant. we have to make it far too costly for the DRM industry to keep making digital handcuffs.

every little bit helps but what helps the most is education. tell you family and friends, if given a choice, take compact flash over SD or sony "magic gate" type products. i mean you are certainly being charged for having those "features" in there yet you will never get any benefit from them. so ultimately it's just best not to donate money to your own lynch fund.

the key is to make people automatically choose non-DRM crippled products given a choice. a shift in the way people think can be achieved if word gets out but the mainstream media is unwilling to do their part. just tell one or 2 people about the basic drawbacks of DRM.

that's all.

thanks for reading.

Re:No open source drivers

[Luke-Jr]

http://www.rpsys.net/openzaurus/patches/archive/mm c_sd-r5.patch

How does the XGP compare to this...

[mangobrain]

...in terms of media support and homebrew development? The GP2X supports Ogg Vorbis and DivX amongst others, and possibly even XviD (correct me if I'm wrong; I'm sure I read about it somewhere, just can't find a reference on the new site). It's a very tempting piece of hardware.

However, the XGP - comparitively ugly as it may be, if you ask me - has a larger screen and supports OpenGL ES, tempting to me as a developer. But I have no idea whether it's intended to be an open platform; or, if it's not, whether it has decent codec support (WHY are there so few portable ogg players?).

Re:How does the XGP compare to this...

[FithisUX]

Excuse me I am not an expert, what is XGP ???

Re:How does the XGP compare to this...

[oneandoneis2]

Ok, it's like this:

GamePark created the GP32. It didn't do so well, so they open-sourced it. Then it did pretty well, selling to hackers.

So then Gamepark wanted to make a successor. They argued over whether or not to make it open-source again.

They couldn't agree, so they split up into Gamepark & Gamepark Holdings.

GP went on to develop the XGP, a closed-source, high-powered console. GPH created the GP2X/GPX2, a less-powerful but open-source console.

They're both successors to the GP32, but very different concepts, made by two different companies.

Hope that helped. . .

More pictures

[Anonymous Coward]

A series of larger pictures greater detailing the unit's expected packaging can be found here, as well as relative size comparisions: http://aog.2y.net/korea/gamepark%20holdings/

Yes, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... does it run Linux?

This does not make any business sense

[godIsaDJ]

Ok, karma, there you go... :(

I'm afraid this is hopeless. It costs 120 punds in the UK, well the PSP is 50 pounds more and it looks os much better it hurts! Plus it's got the whole marketing hype behind it. Plus they advertise the PSP on their own site: what's wrong with them??

I think it's totally hopeless, and although it runs linux this will not make any difference. What does a kid care about the OS? He wants something cool to play with!

Re:This does not make any business sense

[Kazzahdrane]

You buy this and can play a lot of (admittedly "old") games on it, I'd love to take Sam 'n' Max on a plane journey! This clearly isn't aimed at the kid who "wants something cool to play with", it's for people who know that this really is something cool to play with/work with/develop for. I have a friend who is really into the previous console and I believe has one of these pre-ordered, he makes them sound very cool and useful. However, personally I'd probably rather have a PSP. I can play most of these games on my PC after all.

Re:This does not make any business sense

[aliquis]

They probably do it because they can, not because they can compete over Sony. And the GP32 was reasonable successful as I've understood it, and I read they sold 30.000 of them, and that isn't that much..

Re:This does not make any business sense

[delire]

"What does a kid care about the OS? He wants something cool to play with!"

Show me the game you made on your PSP; 'Fun' and 'Making' are not mutually exclusive.

I think you've missed the point of this device - the successor of the hugely popular GamePark 32.

Re:This does not make any business sense

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd love to take Sam 'n' Max on a plane journey!
[...]
I'd probably rather have a PSP. I can play most of these games on my PC after all.

Even if your PC is a notebook that you can take on a plane journey, I bet it won't fit in your pocket. :P

Re:This does not make any business sense

[Kazzahdrane]

True, but I was speaking for myself. The reason I don't own a handheld is because I almost never take long journeys unless I'm driving in which case I probably shouldn't be playing a game :P

Re:This does not make any business sense

[arevos]

This system seems more aimed at a niche market, so they're not directly competing with the PSP. Also, it appears that their previous product, the GP32 was profitable enough.

Personally, I'm more interested in this console than a PSP. An affordable handhold Linux system with USB and twin 200MHz processors does sound tempting. Shouldn't be too hard to get a terminal on this thing, and the USB connection opens up the possibility of buying a small keyboard for it.

Re:This does not make any business sense

[Kadin2048]

As other people have noted, this device doesn't compete with the PSP.

Although the markets might have some overlap, they're not the same; the PSP has a fairly wide audience and is going to be sold in large numbers, its capabilities for the price are determined by a huge economy of scale. This device is aimed not at "kids," but at people who have a big interest in computers and Linux in general -- basically script kiddies, hackers, people who read Slashdot, etc. The numbers they seem to be going for in terms of sales are big for an open-source product, but they're a drop in the bucket for Sony.

Also, I think it will appeal a lot to people who otherwise have no interest in a handheld gaming system. Speaking just for myself, I have no interest in a PSP. Perhaps if someone gave me one for free I'd play around with it, but it doesn't interest me all that greatly. (Moreover the prospect of giving any amount of money to Sony is a disincentive.) However this thing does appeal to me, because I can see a lot of old emulated games being made available for it, as well as non-game-related hacks and modifications.

I'm only one person, but I don't think I'm that uncommon a consumer, in an admittedly narrow demographic.

Name issues

[Neeex]

Should we tell them they've plastered "GP2X" all over the website, but the device clearly has "GPX2" written on it?

Re:Name issues

[27flaming_monkeys]

You're right in pointing out the white version does indeed have the wrong logo on it, which is strange because the black version has the correct logo. I'm guessing it's a slip-up at the manufactures. Maybe they'll offer a discount on the effected stock.

Re:Name issues

[Anonymous Coward]

The machine was renamed to gp2x some time ago. promo pics still have the old name on them.
Additionally the model sold is black, although the pictures show the white model.

Not enough

[News for nerds]

I think it's not enough. Its lack of 3D hardware is another nail in its coffin. Can it compare with PSP in gaming? No at all.

Re:Not enough

[Haeleth]

Its lack of 3D hardware is another nail in its coffin. Can it compare with PSP in gaming? No at all.

Bear in mind what a lot of people are saying about the PSP: "Okay, there's no games on it apart from half a dozen identical racers, but it's really cool for running homebrew software! I hope I don't have to upgrade to firmware 1.50 and break all my emulators!"

This GP2X? It's half the price of a PSP, and while it doesn't have the racing games, it does have the cast-iron guarantee that the company that makes it is not doing everything it can to destroy your homebrew experience and prevent you using your hardware to do whatever you like - unlike Sony, who tighten their grip on their platform with every revision.

Can it compare with PSP in eye-candy? Not at all, not even close. Can it compare with PSP in emulation and homebrews? Well, let's see - it's half the price, it runs Linux, and it's explicitly marketed at the homebrew scene. Hmm, I wonder.

So maybe it's not your thing. That doesn't mean it's crap, you know?

Re:Not enough

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake 1 ran well on 100MHz Pentium I machines with no 3D accelerator. Coupled with the low resolution of the screen, there should be plenty of power there. (I write cell phones games. Trust me, you can do a lot of fun stuff with less than this.)

I'd think the lack of market share would be a far bigger hit than its hardware limitations. If you put your time into developing for this, how many people will buy your game?

Re:Not enough

[KillShill]

calling it "homebrew" does a disservice to people who try to own their own property.

it's called Arbitrary Code Execution.

you wouldn't call programs written by non-corporate people as "homebrew", would you?

they're all just programs but full access to those devices are willfully denied to you, the true owner of the product. using legal and technical means to remove property rights is immoral and unethical.

if you want to rent devices, then call it renting and treat it accordingly. but if you sell something then after the fact prevent full access to it, that by definition is stealing. it should be illegal to engage in this disgusting business practice if it weren't for those meddling lobbyists and their pet congresscritters.

WWRD? (what would RMS do?)

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing is neat but looking at the file formats it plays I got a little suspicious. WMA and WMV files...aren't those patented or something? I assume theres some reason my GNU+linux box wont play those. Does that mean there's unfree software in there?

It displays ebooks. Aren't ebooks encumbered with copy "protection", usually?

And finally is the firmware FOSS? Normally I wouldn't have thought of that but on the page there was this bar on the page that mentioned it.

This thing looks badass and non-evil. I just want to make sure its 100% kosher before I get my hopes up.

Re:WWRD? (what would RMS do?)

[PePeBoTiKa]

It's worse than that: The device has DRM The System-On-Chip used is closed-source. You have to firm a NDA to know the low-level specifications. So it cannot be open source :-( Richard Stallman could be very dissapointed cause of that.

Re:WWRD? (what would RMS do?)

[mangobrain]

Well its predecessor - the GP32 - existed, sold, and didn't cause the company to get sued into the ground. Just to point out that these people have a track record.

Also, if you don't use WMV or WMA formats at the moment, why does it matter to you personally whether and how the device plays then? Even MP3 is patented. I'm more interested in the claimed Ogg Vorbis and XviD support. :)

Re:WWRD? (what would RMS do?)

[Justin Top]

Well, in fact, the player in the GP2X is a Mplayer ported from Linux to.. Linux ;)

Re:WWRD? (what would RMS do?)

[pruss]

mpeg4 (the standard behind xvid) and mp3 are also patented. As far as I know, Thomson doesn't ask for payments from people who distribute mp3 decoders (only) for free, but they do ask for them for people who distribute decoders for money. MPEG LA requires licenses for all mpeg4 decoders, free or not, but doesn't charge any royalties to a licensee if one distributes less than 50,000 or maybe 100,000 copies (I've actually become a MPEG LA licensee so that I could have legal copies of xvid and tcpmp for personal use; there are potential GPL Section 7 issues with this, but since I'm only copying for myself, it should be OK, since Section 7 applies to distribution).

These folks have two choices, as far as I know (IANAL). (1) They can license the patents and use commercial or homebrew non-GPL codecs. (2) They can license the patents and use GPL codecs BUT pay the copyright owners of the GPL software for a non-GPL license (otherwise GPL Section 7 MIGHT be a problem).

Mame on *that* ? Bad idea

[Olivier Galibert]

Unless you don't care about anything post-1980. Dual doesn't help Mame at all, so you end up doing everything on one really puny 200Mhz processor. It *will* suck.

    OG.

Mmmmm

[ewe2]

tasty.

rofl, what a waste of an opportunity.

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

http://www.gp32x.com/gpx2xgp.php

they went from a 4" widescreen capable of 480x272 to a 3.5" 3:2 screen capable of 320x240................

why?

i won't buy a PSP because they cripple video playback, and now a completely open platform comes along....... but with a crap screen. :(

Re:rofl, what a waste of an opportunity.

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

actually, i was mixing up the GXP32 (?) with the as yet to be released XGP. the design of the XGP is hideous, if only they could make the thing in a standard handheld format.

Re:rofl, what a waste of an opportunity.

[Anonymous Coward]

320x240 is the IDEAL screen for emulation which is one of its main points. That page you linked to is comparing the gp2x to the xgp, not the gp32. The gp32 has a 320x240 resolution. The company that made the gp32 in 2001 split into two companies, one called gamepark (the original company name) and one called gamepark holdings. Gamepark is working on the xgp which hasn't been released yet. It is trying to market the xgp as a commercial game system. Gamepark holdings is working on the gp2x which is being marketed as an open source system that is IDEAL for emulators and media. If you don't believe that the 320x240 resolution is better than the 480x272 resolution, please check out the comparison on the bottom of this page:
http://www.gp32x.com/gpx2xgp.php

Re:rofl, what a waste of an opportunity.

[Dimble ThriceFoon]

that link doesn't explain why 320x240 is better than 480x272........ on the other hand, higher res and widescreen is much better for watching videos.

Re:It's a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, right - and if pigs had wheels they would fly... ;-)

Actually the GP2X is a design based on a single chip, the MMSP-2 from Magiceyes.

http://www.mesdigital.com/english/Products/product _mmsp2.asp

It already comes with dual ARM CPU, LCD interface, SD card I/O, USB and all the things you need. Now pray tell us how this design could be related to the wonderful story of yours...

Regent Street

[Giant Robot]

I walked by Regent street yesterday

Is this the same gadget that they have a store devoted to promoting? There was even a night club beneath the store with bouncers

portable PS is pretty big in the UK for 200 quid, don't know how well this thing will sell here...

Re:Regent Street

[Tiersten]

Nah. That's the Gizmondo.

Re:Regent Street

[Giant Robot]

yeah you are right mate got confused... they look similar

Re:Mame on *that* ? Jolly good idea!

[Anonymous Coward]

Take a look here:

(Mame for GP32) http://www.talfi.net/gp32_franxis/

Re:It's a scam

[advocate_one]

well whoever makes them... I want one... I was going to get an Ipod for Xmas and stick Linux on it, but this beastie is far more usefull and cooler than an iPod... iPods.. every Tom, Dick and Harry's got one... far too common...

Linux console?

[mangoo78]

How come there is a Linux console, when there are nearly no games for Linux?

Re:Linux console?

[Loconut1389]

if you build it, they will come?

Re:Linux console?

[oneandoneis2]

Well, in the case of the GP32, because it ran emulators of all the old computers that have hundreds of games. . .

Re:Linux console?

[Pollardito]

portable nethack!!! and when you get tired of that, portable freeciv!!!

The real question is..

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you install Windows on it?

Re:The real question is..

[serialdogma]

I think we all know that someone, somewhere will make it run windows under bochs.
It might not be a usable speed (who am i kidding, who has ever known windows to run at a usable speed), lack a keyboard but it will run.

Re:The real question is..

[bhtooefr]

Supposedly, Windows CE runs on the GP32 - the predecessor to this device.

WI-FI anyone???

[jpkeisala]

It seems to be very nice with Linux and all but I am not going to buy it if I cannot surf and check my mails with it.

Re:WI-FI anyone???

[Kadin2048]

It mentioned somewhere on the site (I believe in the FAQ) that it is capable of WiFi via a SD-to-802.11b adaptor, but there are currently not any Linux drivers for these.

So the answer is currently no, but it seems that if the device sells well, that it won't be too long before someone comes up with a driver for the adaptors.

I admit, integrated WiFi in an open source type device like this would really be killer.

I wonder whether you can plug a bluetooth adaptor into the USB port and use that? In some older games it's not at all inconceivable to do multiplayer via BT.

NO

[Anonymous Coward]

the screen resolution is 320x240 but it can play without re-encoding up to 720x480 movies.

wrong Analogy

[tuppe666]

The Analogy is wrong, a better Analogy is comparing a ps2(psp) to a commodity linux PC(GP2X). As for leaps and bounds. The specs speak for themselves

Come on guys

[Anonymous Coward]

All of you folks (myself included) that push for open standards and open hardware need to put our money where our mouths are.

Bonus 1 - the device runs linux

Bonus 2 - the architecture is open

Bonus 3 - the creators say they won't ruin homebrew

What if we code games/apps for this in a platform portable way? That could mean a bunch of new games (albeit old-style, but what's wrong with that?) for Linux.

For Sale???

[Rick Richardson]

"Firefox users any problems please use Opera or Internet Explorer."

Jeez!

Re:For Sale???

[mangobrain]

Don't worry about it. I just pre-ordered one (yay!) from FF with no problems - the actual card details are entered on a seperate, SSLed site, which then drops you back to the gp2x site and gives you your order number. They're just covering their backs.

Re:For Sale???

[splint3r]

Actually they fixed that bug now. So ignore that message.

Re:For Sale???

[Rick Richardson]

"Here is your order summary, including shipping costs and any taxes.

Items in cart: 2 x GP2X Console Value Pack
Total Items cost: £ 249.98
Shipping cost: £ 17.5 (International)
Total cost with shipping: £ 267.48
To pay please click proceed.

Firefox users any problems please use Opera or Internet Explorer."

Re:It's a scam

[n3owj]

We presented our device and business plan to a large Korean company. They invited GamePark to see it. They copied our description and device except for an ARM processor instead of the 1gHz AMD we used, because the Korean company makes ARM processors under license. If you send me your email offline, mine is in my sig, I'll forward it to someone who can send you more details.

US Pre-orders?

[OpenGLFan]

Anybody have a link for US pre-orders? I've just figured out what I'm getting my MAME-crazy brother for Christmas.

Linux Console Screenshots

[Justin Top]

For you all linux geeks on here, I found some.. sort of interesting screenshots playing with probably a GP2X developement kit..
http://www.ibiblio.org/paulc/gp2x/

Re:Linux Console Screenshots

[Justin Top]

Oops, it looks like that link with the screenshots went down.. but here are the pics mirrored anyway..

http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture82s m.jpg
http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture92y q.jpg
http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture105 zq.jpg
http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capture116 ml.jpg

Linux is ALREADY on the GP2X...

Peripherals

[OpenGLFan]

I've looked all over the site and can't find any mention of this, which is sad. Apparently you can hook it up to the TV and double your resolution, which is AMAZING -- but are there any other interface ports on this machine? Do you know how much fun I could have with this thing and some Palm-based accessories? A little roll-up keyboard? A little USB laptop mouse? I know it's not the target use at all, but the Linux kernel has good USB peripheral support, so all the coding is done for you.

Re:Peripherals

[Cpt_Kirks]

Just order it from Craig in the UK using the (corrected) link above. He's a good guy and does game dev on the machines too. I got my GP32 from him with no probs.

official website???

[PePeBoTiKa]

:-O

That's not the official GP2X website. That's the GBAX website, an online GP2X distributor. Hardcore-gamer is the distributor on spain.

Here is a list of official distributors.

The official website is still www.gpx2.com

The console will be released in october/november

Re:official website???

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanx, they way the website mentioned in the submission looks didn't make me confident about the professionality of this project (aka "what a shitload of junk on that site").

Can't wait...

[EvilMonkeySlayer]

To get my hands on one of these, i've got a Gamepark 32 here and it is an excellent piece of hardware with the exception of the controller.
The GP32 has a fiddly little joystick type thing which would frankly be better if it were a joypad instead.

Other than that stuff like ScummVM and all the ports are really suited to this, Doom is quite nice.. :)

Doom? The game from the 386 era

[SmallFurryCreature]

I should it would run, it ran pretty good on a machine that was 40mhz. How could it not run on a 2x200mhz machine?

Quake might be a little bit different but lets not also forget that this screen is an awfull lot smaller then even my monitor was at the time. Still I had some pretty good matches on a 90mhz pentium and that was with bloated NT sucking up resources in the background.

No 2x200mhz is a lot of power for old games. Wether it can equal the PSP I am not going to debate. This thing is a lot cheaper and not a DRM nightmare.

It all depends I expect on your expectations. I am not a person to be put off by framerates at around 20 in a game. Guess at my age my eyes ain't fast enough to really notice anyway.

Re:Doom? The game from the 386 era

[TheRaven64]

Doom was a little slow on my 16MHz 386 but ran fine on a 25MHz 486. Quake ran okay in 320x200 (the default resolution) on a P100. I'm not sure how much either of these will get from a second processor - they are both single-threaded - but a 200MHz ARM chip should be fast enough for either.

price that low? I doubt it

[SmallFurryCreature]

If you don't believe me then check out HD based portable movie players. They retail for 2x-3x the price of this gadget.

The secret is that this device comes with only a 64mb card. Those are practically given away for free now. if you want more, you need to put up some extra money but it allows them to keep the machine itself pretty cheap.

Sony pulls the same stunt with the PSP, want to really play movies on it? Well then fork over an other 100 euro for a 1gb memory stick.

So I think that a lot of people would moan if they had added a 20gb drive, they would moan about extra weight, they would moan about extra vulnarability, they would moan about reduced battery live and they would moan about the high price.

Sure portable movie players sound hot but look at the sales figures of the ones that are out there, they ain't to hot. Either they are extremely expensive, even above the price of an i-pod or require you to use memory sticks. Believe me I been looking very closely for a good player.

The "best" at the moment might be the DVD players with divx capabilty. Sadly because of the spinning disc they lack battery life. And are big and heavy, not good in a device you got to hold in your hand.

All this talk about linux....

[kermitthefrog917]

... and the videos on the site are in WINDOWS media video (wmv) format.....

proprieatary batteries?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what propriatary batteries are, but if they exist, its a novel way to apply that word. Non-rechargeable is more likely, or ordinary alkaline. Do you know if your rechargeables are NiMH, Rechargeable Alkalines (usually from Royovac), or Nickle-Cadmium?

Re:proprieatary batteries?

[bhtooefr]

Proprietary batteries most definitely DO exist.

Got a cell phone? Open the battery compartment. Does it have AAs, or is it a proprietary battery form factor?

Got an SP or a DS? Ditto.

Got an iPod? That's one of the worst cases.

Laptops are bad about this, too.

NiMH AAs all the way for simple consumer electronics... (preferably with a built-in NiMH/NiCad charge circuit, though, so I don't have to take them out if I don't want to)

Re:proprieatary batteries?

[TheRaven64]

NiMH AAs all the way for simple consumer electronics

NiMH is vulnerable to the memory effect, but that's probably not a problem for a game system that you charge then fully discharge. They also have less energy density than lithium ion or lithium polymer. They also have a serious size limitation. A lithium polymer battery can be made any shape you want - an AA battery is a fixed size and shape (and a lot of the volume is casing). I'd much rather go with built-in lithium-polymer batteries with the option of an external battery pack containing AAs - something like the iPod, in fact.

Re:proprieatary batteries?

[bhtooefr]

Actually, I'd prefer LiIon or LiPoly AA cells, but nobody can actually [b]DO[/b] that, it seems...

Re:It's a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

You're SO full of shit.

20050108591 - "A method includes adjusting the clock speed of a central processing unit (CPU) as a function of the output of a performance monitor forming part of an operating system controlling the CPU. The method can be implemented on battery powered devices and on non-battery powered devices."

So, your brilliant idea is to slow down a CPU to save power? Hmmm, I wonder who else might do that.

Your other patent app doesn't even show up in the system. You're either a fraud or you're insane. Either way, shut the fuck up.

By the way, I'm going to make sure that I use Google AND click on the ads as much as possible. Freak.

Nearly no games?

[hummassa]

Every single game I know (Ok, I'm old-school) has a linux version or runs in a console for which linux has a working emulator... approximately 1000 games.

Re:Mame on *that* ? Bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

MAME is absolutely amazing on the gp32 and will be even better on the gp2x. I own a gp32 and know from experience.

Re:It's a scam

[bhtooefr]

And I think you've even got the right guy:

The reason the number of Google searches has gone down is that the boycott of Google by ham radio operators, shortwave listeners, CB users and other radio hobbyists has started to show its effect.
While I am one of the most vocal of them, many have quietly persuaded their family and friends to use other search engines.
This is an effort to stop Googles support of Broadband over Power Lines, a misserable failure in all of its tests because it interfers with radio communtications around the world.

(my emphasis)

His second /. comment. His first was also mentioning a Google boycott due to BPL.

And, the domain matches his last name.

BUSTED!

Where is it?

[hummassa]

How can I associate with its development?
How can I get an emulator and, if possible, a developer preview?

Re:Where is it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Check here at www.maemo.org for all your development questions and downloads.

As to getting a developer preview it looks like they have stopped, but you can try this link and see if you can apply. I read in Linux Journal they offered this at the last GUADEC to all the developers (only 99 euros - sweet!!!) .

I'm not affiliated with Nokia in any way, but if all the features are true, I'm waiting for this one.

Re:Where is it?

[simeonbeta2]

I am anxiously waiting the release of the 770 and would like to buy a dev preview my self!

Anyways, the open source ui effort is called Maemo and you can download the dev platform and check out contribution options at http://www.maemo.org/community/getting-involved.ht ml

dual 200MHz cpus?

[Kludge]

Your cell phone has 2 200MHz cpus?
I doubt it.

Re:dual 200MHz cpus?

[Anonymous Coward]

only 400 MHz? Mine runs at 1800 MHz!

Linux Inside but not a penguin

[stoicio]

There's a linux inside logo that shows the skeleton of Tux.

It appears that Tux is not a penguin. It must be some kind of alien thing. That's not a penguin skeleton at all. Not even close to a bird.

Things aren't that simple...

[Man In Black]

Gamepark actually encourages people to make homebrew apps, unlike other manufacturers.

You might want to be a little careful of this statement... You see, the company that you knew as Gamepark that made the original GP32 has since split up into two companies: "Gamepark Holdings" is the company that is working on the GP2X (Or GPX2, as some references call it... there was a contest to decide on a name, so there is some ambiguity). However the other company, known simply as "Gamepark" is working on a completely different handheld system called the XGP. From what I've heard, the XGP is likely going to be quite a bit powerful, with hardware 3D accelleration (basically a Korean PSP)... however, everything I've heard about it indicates that the XGP will NOT be an open platform in the way the GPX2 is striving to be.

So in other words, "Gamepark Holdings" is encouraging the homebrew community... "Gamepark" is not. At least, not yet.

Half-Life 2

[SanityInAnarchy]

A little less than a gig, last I checked.

Most XBox/PS2 games I've played have very nice pre-rendered cinematics. HL2's "cinematics" are all very simple and animated real-time.

I'm guessing it's got to do with resource management.

Oh, and by the way, if it's supposed to be portable, why do you want to play more than Quake on it?

Re:Half-Life 2

[Guspaz]

Check again. The GCF files for HL2 are 3.3GB.

They could have saved some space by compressing assets, however uncompressed files lead to faster loading and lower CPU usage. On a PC game, this is an acceptable tradeoff.

Textures and sound account for about 2GB out of that 3GB, so if we assume that texture and audio compression would have netted a 50% size reduction, the game would indeed cut down to 1.3GB, which would fit on a 2GB SD card. However, it is important to keep in mind that the GP2X has a slow CPU (200MHz), and does not have any hardware 3D acceleration. All 3D rendering must be done in software, which is why gbax reccomends the Quake 1 engine for all 3D development; it is about as advanced as you can get with the available power.

I would be much more excited about the XGP, depending on what degree of homebrew support they have. The GXP has a higher resolution screen, and a 400mhz processor; it looks to be similar to the PSP in capabilities, though there isn't any info about it's 3D support.

Anyhow, with Quake 1 level graphics 2GB is way more than we'll ever need. Quake 1 took up what, 40MB?

Re:Half-Life 2

[fbjon]

40MB finally, but 80MB during installation. I still remember it...

"Where are we going to free up 80MB (!) just to install this thing!?"

Show me the schematics!

[queazocotal]

I can't seem to find more details than are on the webpage, just a short list of features, and nothing else.

Where can I find details?

Some questions that arise: Is that 'USB2' port just a cardreader for the SD card, in which case I'll probably leave it on the shelf, or is it a full USB2 host port that I can connect (externally powered) keyboards/mice/hard drives/... to?

Can it supply any power?

What's the power consumption idle with screen on, idle with screen off, idle with external screen on, playing mp3, or playing movies?

What does 'ebook' mean?

html, lit, rbf, pdf, ...

Can it show encrypted .lit et al?

Mention has been made of wireless using a wireless SD card, which is pretty useless if you've got to swap it for your storage.

Is there any likelyhood of an enhanced model with wifi?

How much ROM/RAM is there?

Is there a URL for the SDK, before buying?

Re:Show me the schematics!

[RealTobriand]

Well, you'll find the stats to some extent at www.gp2x.com. At least if its working. Certainly they were there for a long while. Roughly speaking, the chip is the MMSP2 one from MagicEyes. That means it has an Arm920t core and an Arm940t one both at 200MHz. Also has a few other controllers for various crizzle but I can't remember them all. Uses SD cards, has 64Mb RAM proper, and 64Mb NAND flash memory (which is still open debate over whether its either possible or sensible to store stuff in on account of likely limited writes) despite being perfectly fast enough to use as ROM storage. USB2 is, I think, Unpowered Host. If it does host, of course, which I'm fairly sure it does; just not with any power being supplied. If your devices are externally powered, this should still be OK, I imagine. No idea about ebooks, sorry. The SDK on release is said to be SDL. I assume there will be some extensions to allow better use of the second core, but I honestly don't know - but SDL is the primary thing which people'll be starting with. IIRC a wonderful guy called Mr_Mirko is also going to be making his own SDK (can't be open because MagicEyes insist on coders signing an NDA before giving them access to the lower level stuff), which I would hope will definitely be designed with 2 cores in mind. He's made a wonderful SDK for the older GP32 (I was actually able to do more then "Hello World" with it - I'm not a good coder lol). Of course, it isn't made yet, so kinda hard to give it to you :P. Hope that's helped a little -- Toby

Re:It's a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

why would an israeli company use AMD chips?

720x480 internal, integrated LCD is 320x240

[NRAdude]

Please emphasize accuracy on the specs, for which even I doubt the advertisements and comparisons because they are in a table and not the customary endorsed declaratory sentencing.

From the information that appeared before me;
One ARM920T is for processing code, no different than GP32. The main difference is GP32 also performed video calculations on the ARM920T. The GPX2 has a separate ARM940T for the video calculations for 720x480 resolution imagery displayed on the integrated 320x240 resolution LCD screen. GPX2, unlike GP32, contains an (certified?) AC97 audio integration, no less a generation of USB IO exposed from the chassis; this handheld is a hoisted standard media Tool! Wherewith the exceptionally higher video resolution can be exposed to an external monitor to benefit from the original image resolution calculations of 720x480. Despite lacking in wireless features, it has USB; so this can be looked at by developers as not being stuck in any particular advertised network subsystem of the month, and wherefore this unloads the power drain (measured in joules) for more modular pursuits in USB. The one specification comparison with GPX2 that appears silent is GP32 had hardware-accelerated openGL-ES support wilst no equivalent specification is made known for comparison of the product it is advertised to succeed.

GPX2 has more ability than limiting to Quake. I ran Quake under MS-DOS 6.22, on a 486 DX/4 100MHz CPU with 16MB available RAM, at 400x300 resolution, with IPX networking stack and two active connections (include local), Sound Blaster Pro-emulated hardware, and a mouse, at no less than 14 frames per second: VERRY PLAYABLE. Even Doom3 debuted to challenge XBox at such framerate, and the available hardware in GPX2 is capable of more and with a parasol umbrella.

Much better than Play Station Portable and GameBoy Advance. I just want more speculation on PDA-sized Commodore 64, PDP 10, vaxen in general; I wanted a 386 PDA (Blackberry cellphones are a 386 PDA)!

Could be deceived

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting below pointed to this: http://www.gpx2.com/support/support_sugest_view.as p?part=00&indexNo=1599&bunho=14 "Hello everybody This is Anna Hong from Gamepark Holdings ^^ I inform you our official distributor list. Except that i tell you,if any other shop say they are taking pre-orders there might be a chance that you guys could be deceived. So please be careful when you choose stores. Our official distributor is as follows. www.gbax.com (U.K) www.flashlinker-shop.de (Germany) www.gp32z.com/gp32.html (USA) www.hardcore-gamer.net (Spain) i will keep you updated about official or trustworthy supplier information. Thank you all. Anna Hong"

It's WMV1

[Anonymous Coward]

so it will play in MPlayer, and presumably on the GP2X also.

Re:It's a scam

[F_Scentura]

"They copied our description and device except for an ARM processor instead of the 1gHz AMD we used"

Fly away, troll. The GP32 already did all this with ARM, and it's not using any of your AMD architecture.

I don't know how that comment received an "interesting", because it's certainly not grounded in reality.

Re:It's a scam

[n3owj]

No, they did not. I have been told by them not to mention any more here, but if you would email me, I can put you in touch with them. The GP32 did not run most of the stuff they claim the new machine will run. It ran a few proprietary games and not much else. Please check your sources before you post.

Re:Mame on *that* ? Bad idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid shit

Re:It's a scam

[Slashcrap]

No, they did not. I have been told by them not to mention any more here, but if you would email me, I can put you in touch with them.

No one is going to e-mail you because this is the most transparently obvious and least skillful troll that Slashdot has ever seen.

That is not your e-mail address - if it exists at all it is probably the address of somebody you are stalking. This kind of shit has been tried for years, mostly on Usenet. But you're too fucking dumb to use a Usenet client so instead we get stuck with your bullshit.

There are easier ways to flood someone's inbox if you're not chronically retarded.

For fucks sake, you're not even clever enough to open a new Slashdot account. Or have you not noticed that all your posts start at zero? That means you have been officially designated as a "fucktard". A fucktard is like a troll but without enough skill to actually annoy anyone.

In summary, you are an attention seeker who has failed to attract much attention.

Don't assume that this reply is attention. I am merely trying to encourage a higher standard of trolling. You have failed it so badly that your posts provide excellent examples of how not to do things. I hope they might serve as a warning to others.

Re:It's a scam

[n3owj]

"No one is going to e-mail you because this is the most transparently obvious and least skillful troll that Slashdot has ever seen"

How would you know? Obviously you never bothered to look. First, my /. id is my ham radio callsign, not some fake name I am hiding under, I have held it since 1993.

Second, I have been posting to newsgroups under several id's because I often did it at work, but you can look me up at the mendelson.com id, or by searching "groups" for "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" since 1991.

Third, if you looked at the posts from 2003 and 2004, you would have seen that I was the CTO of GW&T, the company that developed it.

Fourth, if you look at the patent applications that I mentioned you would see my name as an inventor, along with my son Paul.

Fifth, people who have emailed me have gorten coherent answers to the questions, including one who posted that he discovered that I really was the person I claimed to be.

My posts start at zero because I hold and profess ideas that the /. managment does not like and complain to them about it. For example the boycott of Google by ham radio operators, or a post in support of DRM by a library.

"For fucks sake, you're not even clever enough to open a new Slashdot account"

Why would I do that? I stand behind my postings and in 14 years of being on he internet have never hidden behind an alias or anonymous id.

"In summary, you are an attention seeker who has failed to attract much attention".

I got yours, didn't I? and the best you could do is an ad-homonim, (personal attack), with absolutely no facts or information in it.

It's ironic that you have spent so much time accusing me of exactly what you are doing.

I do thank you for your (unintended) support and the opourtunity to state my case again.

Geoff.

Re:It's a scam

[n3owj]

"So, your brilliant idea is to slow down a CPU to save power? Hmmm, I wonder who else might do that."

Thank you for the oportunity to present this information to the public.

The difference between that patent application and the ones filed by Intel, AMD, Sony, etc is that they all control CPU speed by knowing in advance that they want to slow it down. In short, all of their work is on PROACTIVE power control.

My work is on REACTIVE power control, something no one else in 2003 had thought of.

The device it was invented for runs UNMODIFIED programs from other devices. This was a novel way to reduce power consumption without modifing the programs or knowing in advance what they would do.

"You're either a fraud or you're insane."

Actually I'm neither. Most hams who live outside of the U.S. use a relative's address for mail from the FCC. It's done so that mail from them can be forwarded to me via airmail by a relative and I get it in a week, instead of the two to three months first class mail takes.

This is very common, one guy must have a big house, because hundreds of Japanese hams live at his address (it's a business for him).

Geoff.

Re:It's a scam

[Anonymous Coward]

Your other patent app doesn't even show up in the system.

If you look carefully at the numbers, he accidentally left out a digit. The patents numbers are 20050108591 and 20050107165. (hint: the two are often mentioned together on web sites) It still doesn't seem to show up at uspto, but Google finds a page describing it as "A method for running a computer game includes the step of running the game on a hand-held game machine for which it is not designed without having to rewrite the game." Has the patent actually been granted? Why doesn't it show up in uspto's search?

Now I'm curious as to what this other device was like...

just imagine...

[Anonymous Coward]

a beowulf cluster of these!!

Price

[inkysplat]

I spose the PSP and GP2X markets over lap, but i believe the GP2X will always be cheaper. If we take linux as an example, about 85% of all software for linux is open-source based, this same trend would naturally continue on the GP2X, even tho Game Park Holdings have included the DRM feature to help and encourage commercial games. Take a look at the PSP, it costs what £179 on play.com/amazon with a memory stick OR 1game, with case and headphones. Each game will cost about £29.99 as well as the UMD DVDs. Whereas because the GP2X is based on Linux it would hopefully attract alot of Linux user's attension and thus there would [hopefully] be a open-source gaming market for it. My point is, get a PSP and you'll be forever buying games, and accessories. Get a GP2X and rip your CDs or Torrent a Video/album/Movie (questionable leagality tho), and then play an fun Open-source game. ableit Tux Racer or Plane Shift, or a Quake/Doom variant.

Yes, Yes, and More Yes

[Wraithlyn]

Hi there, I'm the proud owner of a vintage GP32, and I would be extremely confident at the GPX2's ability to run Doom and Quake full speed.

My GP32 *already* runs Doom II at full speed (60fps), and it can play Quake at maybe 5-8 fps. That's with a single CPU @ 166MHz.

This new one has 2 x 200MHz ones. :)

Some other things the lowly GP32 could do:

Near perfect emulation of NES, Genesis, TurboGrafix16, and numerous others. Playable (but somewhat slow) SNES emulation. Many other systems emulated to various degrees( C64, Atari2600, ColecoVision, GB/GBC, MAME, etc) DivX / XVid playback (I was able to get 320x172, 24fps to work), plus Ogg/MP3 playback, image viewing, and document viewing (!Reader can handle PDFs and HTML, including ZIPPED, with inline images).

The GP32 was a brilliant little gem, and was perfect except for a few wishes:

• More storage capacity (GP32 has 8MB RAM, and SmartMedia which is limited to 128MB)
  
• Faster CPU
  
• A couple more buttons (to better play SNES games.. GP32 only had 6 total: A, B, R, L, select, start)
  

The GP2X addresses all of these. I am ordering one immediately. :)