Slashdot Mirror
The Tech of Burning Man
Marc Merlin wrote:"Some of you have probably heard of burning man, but most of those
who haven't gone probably don't know that saying that it's just a
bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot, is a
very unfair description of the event. I have been writing reports of it for the last 4 years now (akin to
the linux show reports I used to do), and my 2005 report is the biggest one yet (1440 pictures, and a fairly complete overview page, showing the highlights) You can also look at the burning man index page (with pictures from the sky), and look at my first 2002 report for a view as a first timer."
they smoke more than just pot at burning man!
-mkb
Hippies. They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.
Are naked hippies work safe?
Uh. Ever considered that the whole burning man thing has its roots in paganism...
dudes they are going DOWN. 1400 pictures, many of them on the front page! HAHA FEEL THE WRATH!
"Burning Man"? no: "Burning Servers"!
and Linux.
The latest Slashdot meme.
Since when does a few pictures of naked hippies become news for nerds and stuff that matters?!?
1440 pictures?
:-)
Can someone summarize this summary of the event, please?
PS: Slashdotted.
StrayByte.Net
This group of hippies is different, man ... they're deep ...
just wanted to point out the same thing...
mirrordot.org should definitively mirror more then just the linked pages... in its' actual state it's next to useless.
Er, as far as I could see the tech constisted of a digital camera, a few bicycles and some large gears. Please someone tell me I missed something and link me to the cool stuff!
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:marc.merlins. org/perso/bm/2005/
On the contrary, my stereotype of 'Burning Man' was, and is a bunch of Wired-reading Californian rich kids with iPods (*) and the like playing at being Pagans, and pretending to do the hippie thing for a few days.
Not that dissimilar to the more bandwagon-jumping hippies in the 1960s, who went on to found large, corporate companies and sell out (a la "Ben and Jerries", one of the worst examples of corporate hippie culture), whilst living off their supposed hippie credentials. Plus ca change...
(*) Okay, iPods are *way* mainstream now. Replace with whatever that pretentious rag is recommending they buy this month.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
That white American suburbanites have too much money and too much time on their hands. They are too fat, too weak, too drugged, too much of everything. C'mon natural selection, where is our war, pestilence, and drought?
Put the word 'naked' in a story with thousands of pictures and post it first thing Monday morning. Sounds like a DDOS attack.
Is Burning Man still relevant?
GILES: And how was your summer?
JENNY: Extreme. I did Burning Man in Black Rock. It's such a great festival -- you should have been there. There were drum rituals, naked mud-dances, raves, mobile sculptures, you would have just... hated it with a fiery passion.
GILES: Yes, I can't imagine finding any redeeming -- naked?
with naked hippies smoking pot in the desert? Sure beats working for a living...
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Not sure if the summary photo page will get slashdotted, she seems to be holding, but incase...here we go:
http://data.coolnicks.co.uk/burningman
It's all just a bunch of tree-hugging hippie crap!
(Sorry, had to get the Cartman quote out of my system.)
Seriously though, who really cares about a bunch of brain damaged losers trying to save the world one reefer at a time?
He said it was basically bunch of hippies.
Not too many naked, though.
I gather the place is set up like a miniature city, with the "loud drunk dudes" over there, and the "stoner naked hippie dudes" over yonder.
"just a bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot, is a very unfair description of the event"
Consider how much computer technology you're using right now that was invented by potsmoking hippies, often naked, though only occasionally in the desert. Then consider how useless and lemminglike are so many of the people who survive a week on the Burning Man Playa (and how useless are those who don't survive). Then consider how unfair to hippies is that comparison.
"Why don't we do it in the road?"
- The Beatles (prefiguring much mobile computing)
--
make install -not war
I looked at the pictures and it seems like just bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot.
It went something like this
Acquaintance: "Hey I went to Burning Man last week!"
Me: "Why?"
Acquaintance: (stunned by my question) "It's BURNING MAN!"
It's so clear now.
just a bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot
Dude, you so forgot the wicked gnarly bisexual orgies!
OK. Considering the page is nuked (and consisted of the image equivalent of 1.4E+6 words anyway), what would be a fair description in 100 words or less?
What'd be newsworthy though, is to maybe have an idea of the infrastructure behind such an event, since they have danceclubs in the middle of nowhere, which is kinda cool.
Will wank off Linus Torvalds for fame.
Coral cache seems to work fine.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
The cameras, bikes, and gears look a lot cooler after you've smoked the pot.
Oh yeah; slogan....
"Burning Man: It's like those villages in 'Firefly', but with more SUVs and naked hippies"
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Two years ago a hippy wannabe friend convinced me that it was not a bunch of hippies roaming naked in the desert high on Tijuana jerkweek.
He was right!
It was naked hippies (and a lot of folks who came to see the naked hippies) smoking pot, dropping X, munching shrooms, dropping acid and experimenting with free love.
There were some really cool displays and great costumes but mostly it was ugly guys and fat hippy chicks hoping that this desert oasis was going to be their little slice of acceptance heaven; that some tripping smelly hippy dude will actually pay attention to them because they are walking around topless.
Had I been into fat hippy chicks, I'da been fucking till the wheels fell off.
In 2002 I had the distinct pleasure of attending both Siggraph in San Antonio and, about a month later, BurningMan. I found them both to be amazing examples of what the human mind can do.
If you go to Siggraph just looking to see the people who made Spideman's butt look tight, that's all you'll see - but the hundreds of tiny forums and sessions with researchers exploring the edges of science is both enlightening and frightening.
BurningMan may look like a big party in the desert, but unless you go, you just cant understand the experience. The most striking and important thing about BM is the "gift economy" - aside from ice and coffee, there is no money-based commerce. It's not even a barter economy - you can almost always find whatever you want or need, and quickly find yourself getting engaged in the societal lovefest. Even the law enforcement officers we met (and had to deal with after an assault in a neighbooring camp, a very unusal occurence there) were outstanding examples of restraint and respect. The only time Ive seen that level of public harmony and effort outside of BM has been in disasters, my personal experience being the volunteers for the Columbia Debris efforts and here at home on Houston, the Katrina relief efforts.
That said, technologically, BM is a treasure trove of ideas and thoughts - there are many amazing technologies, it's many of the same people that I saw at Siggraph, but this time using their advanced knowledge and resources to delight and amaze their fellow citizens of Black Rock City.
Siggraph and Burningman - I recommend both heartily and without reservation. Look for the beauty, it's not hiding at all.
And regarding Ben & Jerry's... The same B&J that dropped a few products because making the product was giving the factory workers RSI? The B&J that started in a garage? The same B&J that donates 7.5% of its pre-tax profits to charities? The same B&J that's still doing this so many years later, even after having gone public and being acquired by a larger corporation? I don't know, maybe they have become corporate scum and should be hated by hippies, but I can't find any evidence of that after googling for a couple minutes. In fact, the only criticism of B&J's that I've found so far is by conservatives attacking their ideals. Forgive me if I'm a little skeptical of criticism of Ben & Jerry's coming from the fucking Cato Institute.
Fucking hell man, I don't even LIKE hippies. They're extremists, and they piss me off. But don't even try to call them out regarding their integrity... 'cause damn, most criticism directed their way is from people who have no goddamn legs to stand on.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Some of you have probably heard of burning man, but most of those who haven't gone probably don't know that saying that it's just a bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot, is a very unfair description of the event.
This is such a horrible misconception. There are many other kinds of drugs available besides pot!
I thought "Burning Man" was that music video of the guy on fire...
So this is off-topic. But re: the Twiddler 2 (which you ask about in your sig): I had a twiddler (original version) and found it pretty neat, but quirky, and not so neat that I spent the time it would have taken to become truly proficient. I gave it to a friend a while ago; it refused to operate for me through a USB adapter, and fewer and fewer of my computers have PS/2 ports.
... they're not *unresponsive*, but they felt to me a bit like a Fischer-Price toy or a volvo -- externally smooth and well-finished, but sort of clunky / chunky in their operation, required more finger pressure to depress than I would have liked. However, my overall impression was good, and I did at least for a while have it down well enough to laboriously "type" a few hundred words at a time, but the backspace key was the one most often pressed ;) (I can't recall if that was a chord or a single key to press ...)
:) (I'm lazy enough that I'll check later, but IIRC it just has a USB plug, eh?)
The device itself was well-constructed and sturdy, but the buttons are
These comments sound negative, but part of this is also that I'm a slow developer of muscle memory; very possibly you're more adept at learning new typing systems. I'm sure it *is* learnable, but I didn't get well into the groove. I would be happy to try the current version, if it works well with Linux and Mac OS X, and doesn't have a complicated cabling system
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
The only people I know who go to burning man are either nerds who like to blow shit up or hippies who like to smoke shit up. I have yet to meet someone in the middle ground who attends burning man, but I'm sure they're out there ;)
Burning Man Corporation are a bunch of thieves.
If you have any images of nudity or drug use at Burning Man, expect a call from Burning Man Corp.'s lawyers. Unless you're registered as a "pro photographer", you are forbidden from publishing pictures. If you *do* register as a "pro photographer", you're required to give them copies of all of your photos for promotional use, and give them 10% of any money you could make from your photos, *and* they still get to decide what you can and can't show.
Why taunt the slashdot dweebs? Most would feel out of place there even after taking the various pharmaceuticals available onsite. It's a party, and we know how well geeks do at parties.
Imagine two people arguing through a thick mental fog of ecstasy, pot and a little ketamine over the question of which linux distro is more secure out of the box. Somebody would be bound to pants you.
Ok, this guy did the Linux show report, you would think he would be enough of a geek to know two things. 1) Be weary of the /. effect and 2) THUMBNAILS. Holy shit, it took like 5mins for the google cache to load on my computer and I've got a 3ghz on a cable modem connection. I can imagine what it must be like with dial-up. Seriously though, all those pictures and I only saw about 5 pairs of tits. "Stan your dog is a gay homosexual"... "Not that there's anything wrong with that"
My software never has bugs.
It just develops random features.
Burning Man is one of those things that's very hard to describe, mainly because it's pretty unique. Trying to stereotype it into a "naked hippies" thing is sort of like stereotyping Slashdot into "geeks who can't get laid" -- probably accurate for a small percentage, but not all that illuminating.
This year was my second time there. It was different, calmer, but that's because of me not the event. Last year was mind-blowing -- and no, I didn't do drugs there (apart from a few random joints and lots of alcohol). This year I spent a lot more time socializing at camps and less time with the art, which left me feeling a bit art-deprived (but not too much).
My impressions of this year? Less dust storms, I almost missed the constant whiteouts. Great art, better than last year. Cool stuff -- a small dome in the middle of the playa with a microphone and software that played harmonics based on the feedback. Hard to describe but very cool. A huge 3d cube "screensaver". Burning windmills. A very moving & emotional Temple, proving size does not matter. Lots of very cool people. The Group W bench (and Math Camp). The Moroccan double-decker bus from the always wonderful Bee People. The Barbie Death Camp & Wine Bistro.
In other words: total gibberish to people who haven't been there. That's the way it is. It doesn't translate, even through pictures.
It's an experience. Most people will hate it, it's not an easy "entertain us!" event for idle spectators and attention-deficit mindsets... and hey, camping for a week in the desert can get tough. At times you could scream about the playa dust getting everywhere. But for the people who love it, it's worth it many times over.
Things I would change: the fucking motorized scooters. Annoying and they raise dust. Get rid of them. Also get rid of the tourists, the people who arrive just before the burn with videocams for shots of naked chicks. I'd tar & feather the bunch of them if I could. Spend the whole week there and get involved or keep out. It's not supposed to be an easy, convenient weekend experience.
Oh, and Center Camp should only sell ice, not coffee. Dammit. :)
They smoke crack,drive SUV's,spread AIDS, use wind0ze XP, and molest little boys.
AAARRGH!!! I CAN'T SEE!!!!!! Oh, wait. It must be that flash of blindingly obvious insight. (with apologies to scott adams)
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
This guy broke up with his girlfriend. He and a bunch of friends got drunk (or stoned, whatever). They built a giant effigy of her. They burned it.
:)
At least, that's the story I heard N-th hand
I don't know if she was a pagan.
--LWM
The originally did it on Baker Beach. Lots of gay and Silicon Valley nerd content in the beginning. Then they dot.com arts scene joined. It got to big to do in S.F. and migrated to the Nevade desert.
but Bay Area yuppies who load up on Burning Man supplies at Costco.
That burning man is quite famous these days
All that carbon released more than makes up the difference saved by hybrid cars and conservation.
I suggest you read Slashdot
dude, man, like... I think the server's cashed dude.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
"saying that it's just a bunch of naked hippies meeting in the desert to smoke pot, is a very unfair description"
Oh well in that case I'm not interested.
free love is stupid and irresponsible, they only want your money, plus i'm sure you can hang out with thousands of drunken frat kids in your own town. don't bother unless your some hipster who thinks crapping in the desert is "art".
it's a waste, and pretty much everyone there is too.
It was something... To everyone, just go there! Totally cool, special thanks to Adrian and Piss Clear.
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
Have _you_ gone to burningman?
"It is entirely possible that for some people it is of a sufficiently cool magnitude as to be self-evident as to why you'd go"
I agree, but we were talking about the Shuttle Launch, so I don't really see how that applies.
All types of subcultures are represented there. All types of drugs are too. Other than that, your comment is right on the money.
For as much as there is really cool stuff that goes on down there..you get to it's origins and...
It's all essentially a popularized hate crime.
Burning man started over by baker beach15 some odd years ago, Larry buildt an effigy of this guy who had stolen his girlfriend a year or so back, they spent a fey months building him, in I think Chris's garage, took him down to the beach and torched him... all these drugged out hippies got jollies off of it, so they decided to do it the next year.
The first time it was essentially ritually no different than a cross buring... but the baker beach freaks loved it.
Now it is a cash cow for an ex landscaper and a stripper turned performance organizer.
And it is amoral as fuck... my gf's ex was drugged by there art curator who goes by Lady Bee... she slipped ketamine into his drink, tried to rape him... he got away and they laughed about it... but she works for that corporation...
The whole thing is kinda cool but also kinda fucked up with wierd shit like that always going on...
white trash that found a cash cow and enough cattle to follow them and pay to go...
Right... because lots of companies are in hot water over workers getting RSI syndrome...? The money made from the products they dropped would certainly compensate for any risk. Otherwise, the product wouldn't be worth keeping in the first place. So I submit that you're completely wrong. Either they wanted to put a spin on the dropping of a product that wasn't worth keeping to bolster their already excellent public image, or they really didn't want their factory workers getting RSI.
The B&J that makes money off making people fat and getting kids addicted to sugar, giving them diabetes and tooth decay. Yeah, hippies are all about making money on other people's misery.\
Right. Sugar, especially ice cream, is pure dagnasty evil. And it's their responsibility to parent all kids and make sure they don't eat too much ice cream... Hey, I got a brilliant fucking idea. Let's go lynch the ice cream man, dealer of diabetes and cavities! No, really...
Good show, though. That would make a great Power Point presentation. Bullet points. Tooth decay: check. Addiction: check. Diabetes: check. Making money on other people's misery: check.
Christ, man, have you no sense of reality? You really think you can make them sound like petty thugs? THEY MAKE AND SELL FUCKING ICE CREAM!
If they were real hippies, rather than sell-outs, they'd give 100%. But then they wouldn't be millionaires, which is what it's all about in the end.
Uhhh... they run an honest business and donate a large chunk of the profits to charity... Those bastards...
Damn, such harsh damaging criticism you came up with... I'll make sure never to piss you off, lest you make me look a fool.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I liked the Dance Dance Immolation.
It's just like DDR. But you wear full body flame proof suits while playing, so that you don't get incinerated when the flame thrower fires after you screw up a move.
Recently a guy (sup blairerickson) on a forum I frequent posted a thread about the burning man. In an attempt to dispel some of the (usual) slashdot misinformation, I'm quoting some of what he said
Burning Man is one of those events that a lot of people have heard of but few have any in-depth knowledge of unless you've actually been. So here's a thread to try and explain as many lingering questions people have about this strange phenomenon.
How big is it?
There were more than 35,000 people there last year.
Here's a shot of the Playa (the place in Black Rock desert where it's held) from outerspace:
And 's a random crowd shot to give you an idea of how many people are around any given street corner.
Is everybody there all peace love and happiness type hippies?
Nope. In fact quite the opposite. There are entire groups built on nothing but raw rage. But there are plenty of hippies too. For some people who go, a lot of Black Rock City is described as a cross between Survivor and Mad Max. Mad Max is the most common answer. Here's some photos to better explain why:
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/Muytator2.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/Thunderdome.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/mutantvehicle.jp g
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/Spinning.jpg
Oh and then there's a group called the UberCarneys who built a giant device called the "Roaster Coaster" where they dropped spinning cages full of riders through a flame thrower while screaming over a megaphone about the sloppiness of its construction.
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/roastercoaster1. jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/roastercoaster2. jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/roasterfire.jpg
Supposedly they're doing something this year called "Unsafety Town"
In addition to the flame throwers and anarchy, you can also expect a heavy dose of insane behaviour, giant displays of sexual debauchery, and liberal drug use. Just plain good fun.
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/blowtorch-burn-b arrel_f.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/IMG_1079.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/IMG_1116.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/IMG_0617.jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/BarbieDeathCamp. jpg
http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/amacker-and-frie nd_f.jpg
Is it all easy and fun?
Not at all. Surviving in the middle of the Black Rock desert is pretty goddamn tough. You have to bring plenty of gear, supplies, water, and anything you can think of. And you will probably be injured at some point. Goes with the territory. Almost everyone I was with last year was injured. I ended up with a pretty gruesome stab wound (http://www.blairerickson.com/bman/kneescar.jpg) on my leg and a sprained ankle
I did think that Burning Man was a bunch of naked hippies smoking pot. I had no idea that they also took pictures! Truely fucking amazing.
Please grow up already. Burning Man, indeed....
Ok, at the risk of burning my server down, here is my article and photos of Burning Man.
Not really tech related, but it offers my virgin experience at Burning Man this year, so some of you may enjoy another perspective.
It comes from my heart:
http://lecter.org/fotos/BM05/
Enjoy!
Jim
And this whole time I thought the Burning Man Festival was a tribute to Great White's Rhode Island performance!
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Slashdot is all for legalizing drugs and social liberterianism... until a bunch of people go and do it. Then it's stupid.
You sir have no idea what you are talking about.
Burning Man is NOT anarchy and has never claimed to be. Its not a free market, quite the contrary. Rules exist for a damned good reason, and this one in particular is supported by an overwhelming majority of participants. Until people think its "cool" for Fox News to broadcast live coverage from the Playa, until people think its "cool" for 2-bit pornographers to shoot footage of naked people for profit, that rule is not going to change. People go to Burning Man to have fun, not to be the animals in a media circus.
Yes, Burning Man is a (non-profit) corporation. They annually raise and spend millions of dollars on the event. They deal with nasty legal problems and miles of beurocratic tape to make it happen. Comparing them to Disney is totally absurd.
If you don't agree to the terms then don't go there. Everyone knows the rules. They are published well in advance on their website. If you don't agree, then don't go. Its called a choice. If you are a pro photographer and you want to shoot naked people in funny costumes without rights-encumberment, then hire some models.
I think he's just complaining (understandably, I'd say) about all the posing that goes on there. Know what I mean? I'm referring to people whose self-image is tied up entirely in how "cool" they are.
A few points to make...
"if you take a photo on the playa, we own it, and get to tell you when and where and how it can be published. Even if you take that photo of yourself, inside your tent, surrounded by your own stuff."
That's a gross oversimplification of the rules governing photography. These rules primarily exist to prevent things like "Girls Gone Wild - Burning Man" from occuring. (Yes, that happened. And yes, they sued the people who did it and got the video retracted.)
Update: rzr_grl pointed out that I forgot the best part: they also demand a percentage of profit (10% or 20%) plus that you send them a copy of all photos, for them to use however they like.
Indeed. Seeing as their finances are relatively precarious, they have no intention of allowing someone who merely photographs the event to make a pile of money whilst they struggle to fund art projects.
But to have run the thing with a media strangle-hold that would make the White House proud, and then in the same breath claim "we're doing it to protect you"
I don't know that they've ever claimed they're trying to protect the media - except from being sued by Burning Man. Do they protect their brand? Yes. Why? Because otherwise there'd already be "Burning Man Hotel, Las Vegas, NV" with all sorts of lovely naked fire dancers.
P.S. I'm not a raver OR a hippie.
The sad thing is that this plant would be sited near the Black Rock Desert because the air is so clear. Even sadder is that power would go to Los Angeles, yet the plant is too dirty to site in California.
Unfortunately, the guy cycling around my camp whilst on ketamine worked for Microsoft.
1440 pictures?
:-)
Can someone summarize this summary of the event, please?
PS: Slashdotted.
MirrorDot is your friend:
Mirror Here
Funniest. Post. Ever.
Many /. readers won't "get" this, and I don't blame them, there's lots that I don't get, either.
But this is art of the kind that some of us feel deeply within, without even being able to explain just why it touches us.
If there were a Burning Man Europe, I'd be there.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I don't quite know how to tell you this, but a lot of the BM people are also Silicon Valley people tech people.
There are a lot of idealist, non-conformist, artistic people at Burning Man, but around here, BM not thought of "hippie" event...because the right-wing media hasn't programed us quite as much. Even is San Jose, very few people would point a finger at anyone and call them a "hippie."
Further, Most of the people who attend Burning Man are too young to be hippies.
BM is also expensive and resource taxing. On a budget it cost me a lot of money to attend. Everything must be brought in and out.
The camp I went with has a dome and encoutrements which cost thousands of dollars, and an art car with a 1,800 watt dual-generator powered sound system with 18" subs, which was not cheap.
Around the SF Bay area, where Burning Man originated, it's almost a rite of passage.
...that this "tech" they speak of includes a discreet method to apply a substance known as "deodorant" to the participants...
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Not Recommended. Make all the jokes you want, but going to Burning Man to smoke pot is a Bad Idea.
Why, you ask? Dehydration. One hit off a joint can completely dessicate your upper respiratory system in that environment. The dessert also dehydrates your pot, which quickly turns to dust.
Also, althought the state of Nevada has recently "decriminalized" marijuana, it is still one of the worst states to get busted in. Simple possesion nets you a $500 fine! And the cops are still VERY aggressive about enforcement, and like nothing better than intimidating and harrassing "hippies". There is no shortage of cops at Burning Man.
Plus, being stoned in that environment just makes you tired, when what you really want to be able to do is ride your bike, dance all night, chat with scantily clad members of the opposite sex, etc.
I have attended Burning Man the last ten years, and can tell you, from experience, that there is less pot-smoking going on there than at almost any rock-concert of similar size.
Some burners from the UK and Spain have started "Nowhere" which is held in spain every year. Very small at the moment, but they are hoping to grow it:
http://www.euroburners.org/wikka/NoWhere
After that everyone started going and covering it. That this dimwit even dares to mention 'I have been covering it for the last 4 years!' as if it was something to be proud of, instead of admitting he was in on it way too late, way after everyone else knew about it, it's embarassing.
Style is everything at one of these burns. Appearances count. Any idiot can pick up a tiki torch at a Home Depot and wave it around like a deranged circus clown; it takes talent and panache in abundance to dig a five-foot-wide hole in the ground, dump in an engine block from a scrapped VW bug and set it on fire, then exhort onlookers -- with bullhorns -- to "Look away from the fire; it is many times brighter than the sun, and it will destroy your eyes." Yes, kids, burning magnesium is fun, but the consequences are dire: magnesium burns at 1,200 degrees Fahrenheit and reacts explosively with certain salt nitrates. Good thing, then, that our fellows at Burning Man protected onlookers from the burning block by partially burying it in an alkali lakebed.
Shamelessly stolen from Pigdog.
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
"Faces of burning man" series.
/ 08/28/burningfaces.DTL&hw=burning+man&sn=002&sc=89 7
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2005
THere is a tremendous amount of diversity at B.M.: Naked hippies on drugs with lots of money, naked hippies on drugs with less money, naked hippies on drugs in the visual arts professions, naked hippies on drugs who are attorneys, naked hippies on drugs who come from other countries, naked hippies on drugs from San Francisco . . .
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Flame Pendulum - It stand abot 20' high and is swung by the jets coming out of it. Quite impressive once it gets going.g es/IMG_6309.jpg
http://www.voltagemagazine.com/galleries/BM05/ima
Some of the art cars made by the Houston art car guys are monstrosities of hydraulics, automotives and burning propane.g es/IMG_6703.jpg
http://www.voltagemagazine.com/galleries/BM05/ima
This art car is actually a pipe organ that blows flame out of the tubes as they are played. he dries it to where it needs to be, then the organ sits upright and the fire burns.8 280100.jpg
http://www.brchardware.org/photos/BM2001/images/P
There used to be alot more mechaincal mayhem with robots that were used to destroy art structures and eachother.8 310026.jpg
http://www.brchardware.org/photos/BM2001/images/P
There is a lot of tech goes into figuring out how to make fire. Most art cars try to have a flame thrower or four. Take these kerosene projectors for example. Consider that they are surrounding the man shooting flame about 300' into the air and I can only get a clear shot because it is so hot that the crowd in front of me had ducked down to escape the heat.9 010005.jpg
http://www.brchardware.org/photos/BM2001/images/P
Many othe things include two story tall teeter-totters that not only go up and down but also spin 360 degrees, art structures that are meant to be have people climb over them all week that include sound, lighting, fire and moving parts that all must be powered somehow out in the middle of the desert by the artist. I suppose that it would be more engineering than R&D technology, but you should get the idea.
If seeing other people enjoy themselves turns you off, don't go to Burning Man, slashdotters.
Stay at home in your airconditioned apartment, with your precious computers, and your intellectually stimulating online debates about arcane topics that nobody outside of the slashdot crowd cares about.
You can read all about Burning Man on the web, and obviously, that's just as good as being there, for the purposes of dissing it in online forums.
Whatever you decide to do next Labor Day, PLEASE DON'T come to Burning Man.
You say that Jamie has no idea what he's talking about, then essentially agree that every single one of his points is correct, while using the usual weasel words that Jamie is complaining about.
This means you are too stupid for anyone to care about your opinion (which is, apparently, that Burning Man aren't hypocrites so long as you can go have fun on the playa).
FWIW I've watched TV programs that were filmed on the Playa, and the main situation the people filming seemed to have to deal with was while the participants had no trouble with filming, the Burning Man corporate media people objected to absolutely everything until they got a bigger cut. If that's "cool" then I guess I'm not "cool" any more.
P.S. I'm not a raver OR a hippie.
./'ers have just never got over being picked on in high school...and are willing to pass judgement in retribution safely from behind their keyboards...
But bloody likely someone who actually WENT as opposed to the original poster who TOTALLY missed the point. Nice job explaining to the know it alls.
My buddy made the first trip this year. Seeing the change in his whole attitude on life, I am joining him on next years playa.
Explaining Burning Man is like explaining sex to a virgin; you can go into as much detail as you want, show movies, diagrams and pictures - but since it is SUCH a personal experience, words and images fail.
I guess some
Have _you_ gone to burningman?
No, I think he went to Birmingham by mistake; that's why he was pissed off.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Go to Monroe County West Virginia. They've moved there en masse driving around in 15 year old beat-up Volvo's. And somehow they came up with the money to buy farmland? And do you wanna know what they are growing on the farmland? It ain't corn my friend.
Southpark is RIGHT!
Not too many hippies. I'm from Eugene. I know all about hippies. I think of buring man as the Oregon Country Fair without the hippies.
The next morning I woke up, we had a bit of breakfast, and my friend came up to me asking if I could help fix a car - an art car. He had been around some nearby camps, and one of the camps was having problems. He told them I might be able to help. So I agreed and we went over to the camp...
To make the story short, my first morning on the playa was spent dinking around on some neon-fur covered Volkswagon, fixing the fuel pump wiring. A couple of hours later (near lunchtime), it is about done - and out of nowhere I get offered (and gladly accept) a wonderful ham sandwitch, with lettuce and tomato I might add, for my trouble and help.
There I am, out in the middle of nowhere and everywhere at once, tribal beats, whiteouts, sun, naked people, and a fur covered vehicle - enjoying a very well made ham sandwitch. I felt the love, and I knew...
...I was home.
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
The ticket money goes to several things:
1) Paying for the permit (the event is held on public land)
2) Paying for services. Porta potties, overtime for EMTs, and the police that are necessary prerequisites for the permit
3) Grants to artists who bring their art to the event. Art, I might add, which is frequently burned and from which no profit can possibly be made.
4) Salaries for the very few full-time and quite a few part-time employees. Most of the part-time employees are hired for after-event cleanup, again to meet federal BLM standards for land usage (so they can get the permit again next year.)
I fail to see what about that pegs your irony meter. Is it the coffee? For God's sake every cent is donated to the local SCHOOL for the decidedly poor and isolated town of Gerlach - the only settlement (along with the small town of Empire) for 100 miles in any direction. Last year, volunteers from Burning Man rebuilt the roof of the school.
Nobody is making big bucks off this event - least of all the people who are actually employed by it. Their salaries, for people living in San Francisco, border on poverty level. So no, it's not free to put on a festival for 30,000 people. I'm excited that you find this "Ironic."
but Bay Area yuppies who load up on Burning Man supplies at Costco.
don't forget a lot of people from Seattle too, and Home Depot is useful for rebar, batteries, cheap rugs, and other supplies one needs in the desert.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
To say Burning Man is a bunch pot-smoking, naked hippies is unfair. A more acurate desciption is: A group of young bored teenagers, and a group of clueless, irresponsible and tragically unhip 20-somethings brought together by a lack of culture so deep they've donned the cultural tendencies of "Hippies". Or at least what they understand to be hippies by watching TV and movies, or reading the same LCD-laced pamplets and novels passed around for generations. They gather each year for a big f-ing party, presented under the guise of some vague, political and/or enviromental agenda, which is rarely addressed. Money is gathered for the cause all over the world but is simply used to fund the next year's party.
I can find a lot of other reasons not to go to Burning Man. The most important reason would be that I don't like phony people.
lucm, indeed.
1. Party - this really kicks off with the Thursday crowd that hangs till Sunday - so if you're in party mood, don't go earlier. Or stay home. Yeah, I like that ...
...
2. Art - a lot of the art is more accessible and organic early on, so best seen Tuesday to Saturday - by Saturday afternoon it's way too party to bother.
3. Drugs - not really into that, but if this is your style, then sleep during the afternoon heat and stay up till dawn and you'll have lots of fun - the dancing till dawn part is cool tho and my fave experience was finding my flourescent green artists tube (transparent) when twirled at a giant black light music piece off in the desert with windsocks around - well, it vibrated and the dust from the playa really made it glow like mad - must be the desert salts
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The festival is about many things, but I tried to capture the art (for the most part).
My online gallery is here.
Truly, the art is largely done by a bunch of geeks -- from the 9x9x9 "display" of ping-pong balls with three LEDs in each that can display any color on the rainbow, running a whole slew of programs that showed off the three-dimensional aspect of the project (Cubatron) (think rotating planes in the XYZ axes in three colors all at once) to the otherworldly Alien Semaphore, whose light/arm movements were user-programmable through a control panel near the front. Or The Machine whose top would rotate and arms slowly raise when all three turnstyles were rotated in the proper direction simultaneously through a tremendously complex system of gears. It was all simply incredible.
THere is a tremendous amount of diversity at B.M.: Naked hippies on drugs with lots of money, naked hippies on drugs with less money, naked hippies on drugs in the visual arts professions, naked hippies on drugs who are attorneys, naked hippies on drugs who come from other countries, naked hippies on drugs from San Francisco . . .
You left out those who don't use drugs but otherwise fit these descriptions, in all of the descriptions you use "on drugs".
FalconShould there be a Law?
Seeing the change in his whole attitude on life, I am joining him on next years playa.
Sounds weak minded to me, or at the very least sheep like.
Funny, phoney people is what most people at burning man are trying to get away from.
If you don't agree to the terms then don't go there.
Or better yet, start your own event, institute your own rules, and see how things work out. Maybe Burning Man can learn from your experience.
Burning Man is supposed to spawn other events-- Burning Man isn't supposed to be the only event.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
My Girlfriend went last year, I declined to go stating that now I know where all the hippies were it would be handy if I could lay my hands on a nuke.
She came away after 2 days stating that it was just a bunch of naked hippies smoking pot in the desert.
I am a true conservative - an independant libertarian
If you were libertarian, ie believe in liberty and small government, then you're not conservative unless you mean fiscally conservative wherein government is kept within limits with low taxes and such. Those who believe in liberty and small government are Jeffersonian or Classical Liberals. Myself, when I can I generally vote LP, like in 2004 my vote went to Michael Badnarik, and if I lived in Texas I'd vote for him for congress just as I would Ron Paul. But I've also voted for Democrats, Independents, and Republicans. Whoever comes the closest to being for liberty I vote for.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Lots of open source applications offer similar licensing arrangements. For commercial use, they have a commercial license. For non-profit personal use, they have a non-commercial, Creative Commons-like license. The GPL makes some kinds of commercial use such as the boxed software model virtually impossible, so I don't see how this is all that different. Comparing Burning Man to Disney because they make use of copyrights makes as much sense as comparing Disney to the Free Software Foundation.
"It's Dot Com!"
Sounds like you have an axe to grind, and you're not going to be happy unless Burning Man is a Utopian Paradise. A "Glass is Half Full" kind of guy. Too bad. I had fun there, even though it's not perfect.
I can find a lot of other reasons not to go to Burning Man. The most important reason would be that I don't like phony people.
Bahahahaha! Clueless wonder! Getting away from phony people is precisely the reason this was my 8th year at Burning Man. The expense and distance filter out all the crabby closed minded jerks who crap things they've never experienced. Move along. Move along.
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/burningman.html
---
Actually, he's pretty much right on. The organization lies to the media & lies to attendees. It's nothing more than a huge cash cow for Larry Harvey & his pack of wannabe progressive idiots. "free society" my ass. There are more rules & regulations at Burning Man than you can shake a stick at.
Damn, and I was hoping to get some insight on how this guy could be used to solve the worlds energy problem.
The BLM outlawed the drive-by shooting gallery at Burning Man several years ago and it's no so easy to blow up propane bottles in the desert anymore.
If you think Burning Man is about hippies, stay home, keep playing vids and wait to die. You obviously haven't been there, your opinion is clueless, and the hundreds of thousands of souls who have passed through Black Rock would appreciate you keeping up the stereotype to keep people like you away. Thanks for that. Burners are all drug-addled naked udder-sporting hippies who do nothing in the desert but stand around looking for something to do.
Meanwhile: Soul In The Machine tore my musical brain out and showed it to me. (http://www.soulinthe.../
Or Thunderdome and the Death Guild. Or Fight Club. Or Colossus. Or the Mouse Trap, before the propane bottle exploded because some hippie deliberately crushed it with a 2,000-lb safe.
Last year, I was nearly run over by a flamethrower-spouting viking ship with a stripper pole for a mast. Burning Man sucks. Don't go or you'll turn into a hippie. Go to Disneyland because they have a better arcade.
-gatt
Perhaps Merlin ought to lay off the pipe and actually learn to write a sentence. And an editor actually posted this...
You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
You can predict what the next hot company is going to be based on where the original VA I.O.U. team goes. They just need to get CmdrTaco out of there and into Google.
Amazing that his first trip to Burning Man was long after VA I.O.U. collapsed. It just shows how long ago the days of VA I.O.U., Linus guest appearances, elite programmers, and parking lot parties were. The VA I.O.U. team doesn't seem to be as enthusiastic about Google as they were about VA I.O.U.. Google probably doesn't let them do whatever they want, they probably don't pay as much, or maybe they're more realistic about the future.
About burning man, it's dissapointing that in none of the photos that have ever been taken can you get a feel for how crowded/wide open it is. Every photo is either a close up of something, a wide shot at night, or an aireal view, neither giving you a feel for what it looks like if you were standing there.
East of the Mississippi a dime bags costs whatever a quarter oz costs.
YMMV.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
I'd rather go to Desert Blast!
You miss the point entirely.
... with the exception of shackle fans.
The US is a coercive state where many things are mandatory and alternatives are disallowed. BM is many things, but to a large extent, much of it reacts against those shackles and embraces all
So the poster was perfectly correct to demean those who don't care about the underlying principle. BM is after all about leaving that world behind.
If you want to catch some quick videos of naked people, there are other places far better suited for that. BM is about participation, even if it's just social participation, but definitely not a spectator sport with demarcation between viewer and artist.
People don't like to be treated like an exhibit in a zoo.
Hippies don't really get into the commercial kind of chaos that is burning man. I guess any counterculture can be labeled as "hippies" but the people who do Burning Man tend to be urban contemporary artists.
If you want to hang out with hippies, go to a Rainbow Gathering.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
You make it sound like the Burning Man corporation puts up all the art, creates the community etc. This obviously isn't true (which I'm sure you know). BM is created by the people that go to BM. I suspect some of what you say is true, BM tries to protect the BM "brand", but I don't think comparing it to Disneyland is accurate at all. Beyond not permitting the extremely dangerous BM doesn't restrict anyone inside the event. There's no approval process that I know of for art that doesn't involve fire.
The restrictions on taping the event is to prevent for instance a large corporation from trying to take over the event. In other words "Girls Gone Wild does Burning Man!" This same kind of attitude is at the heart of the GPL as well.
I would agree that the boosterism of Larry Harvey is a bit looney. But I don't think the IP agreement or charging for ice+coffee is really unreasonable or hypocritical. The "everything should be free as in beer" meme of the hippies was probbably the most foolish idea they had. The gift culture of BM works great for a week, then you spend the rest of the year earning enough extra money to give something.
AccountKiller
Thanks for the correction.
Must have missed the Judeochristianity department when deciding how to apply to grad school to study this stuff.
Not sure about you but on my own I've studied different religions since I was in elementary school then in college I took classes in philosophy, comtinuing from high school, and religius beliefs.
Ooh, and it wasn't a troll.
FalconShould there be a Law?
At some point the "alternative" becomes so mainstream that it's thoroughly annoying - Burning Man has reached that point. I can't stand that the only thing that people who go to Burning Man now can talk about is how "spiritual" and "life-changing" Burning Man was. They paid $250 to go to camping. In the desert. With several thousand other people. Some of whom made stupid shit to bring with them. It's like people who live in New York won't shut up about living in New York - after a while you just want to punch them in the throat.
Maybe I'm more down-to-earth than most, but I'm almost scared to ask how repressed modern "Burners" are in the rest of their life that this is such a release. Although I suppose Wired-reading "Dot-Com" zillionaire con-artists / Starbucks employees have to go on vacation at some point.
(And the term "playa" pisses me off too and should be exterminated from our lexicon when not being used in a strict technical geological context to describe a lake bed or desert. Confusion with the ganster rap use of the term "playa" implies brutal retardation when used in a written sentence - while apt that a 'burner would be retarded, it's also annoying).
My recommendation is that to see people wearing all sorts of strange costumes, odd houses and art projects (but without having to waste a week attending Burning Man), go explore the online game/world "Second Life" for a couple of evenings.
here's what you really want critical tits pix
Uh, wait. That's Running Man http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID /181886
If you're telekinetic raise my hand.
Yes, Burning Man is a (non-profit) corporation.
No, Burning Man is definately *not* non-profit, nor do they have open books. They say they are like a non-profit, but in reality this is pretty much a figment of their imagination. Frankly, I agree with the parent, they do act like Disney, they maintain a shroud of secrecy and they charge a ridiculous entrance fee ($150+/person, IIRC).
And yet this is your sixteenth post of the day, and you've posted 24 times in the last 5.
I wonder how much you USED to hit up slashdot.
Ingrate.
"Inattention makes clowns of us all" -Bean
As for charging for tickets, BurningMan is legallly required to count the number of participants, and at its size it does have some unavoidable infrastructure costs. For example, local / state and federal law enforcement agencies have found the festival to be a cash cow, requiring ever larger per-participant payments each year.
Tickets also cover the bothersome necessity of reducing liability (the alternative is not having the event) and helping to keep out the 'girls gone wild' producers (the alternative is a lot less naked chicks, which would be a big disappointment to many Burners. A "Critical Tshirts" parade doesn't seems as interesting.) Tickets and vending bans both help stop the slackers who might otherwise just show up thinking "I can just buy what I need on the Playa..." That attitude towards preparation doesn't scale.
Correct, it is an LLC.
o .htmlt .html
They do publish a yearly report on where the money goes.
http://afterburn.burningman.com/04/financial_intr
http://afterburn.burningman.com/04/financial_char
Mostly its pretty obvious stuff, and the amount of money is not huge (annual revenue is only something like 10 million); grants to artists, cleanup costs, BLM land use fee, emergency services (fire, police, etc), property acquistion and development, payroll for staff.
Where exactly do you think there is a shroud of secrecy? It all looks pretty open (and obvious) to me.
I challenge you to find *any* weeklong event that costs less than $150/head, let alone one sufficiently interesting to attract 30,000+ people to a rather remote area. Its only absurd if you go for 2 days which they actively discourage anyways.
It actually moved out to the Black Rock desert in 1990, well before the dot-com boom. Dot-commers were very well represented during the boom, though, largely because they had scads of imaginary money to spend on supplies.
Here's a timeline. Note that they were only at around 800 people when it got too big for Baker Beach.
My favorite phrase from this year's burn: "Burning Man nostalgia isn't as cool as it used to be."
I stand corrected, I didn't realize they published those numbers.
I first heard about Burning Man back in 1997 as an undergrad. Seemed really cool to a kid in rural southern Illinois. I thought about going out there after I got some money together. A couple of years later, I had the money, but not the time. Now I have the time and the money, but from what I've heard Burning Man is a shell of what it used to be. Control of photography that would put Walt Disney to shame. And everywhere I read about burning man now, I get an impression that there's general sense of malaise about the whole thing.
Are you saying that's not true? Because I don't want to go to something after it's already jumped the shark.
Can't slip a subtle joke past you, huh?
Everybody who goes to BM tries to capture it, which is not really possible, but the best I've been able to do has resulted in my project of giant panoramas, some of the larger ones in the world that get displayed there.
You can see some of them at Brad's Burning Man Site at lower resolution of course.
I do notice the negative comments here are from people who have not gone, and the positive ones from people who have. Jamie's negative comments are about the BMOrg, not the event, which like the rest of us, he loves. That should tell you something about what it is.
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
Obviously you're trying to make a joke and all, but it makes me sad that there are some people who can only see hippies on drugs. It seems to explain a great deal of what's wrong with mainstream America.
Mr. Zawinski is does not make factual errors, therefore there is nothing to disagree with on a technical basis -- hovever his analysis is generally uninformed, one-sided and dogmatic suggesting that he does in fact, have no clue (or maybe he does but wants to generate a controversy for the sake of publicity).
His one and only critique is that Burning Man LLC is "hypocritical" because the restrict the actions of the media in their space while claiming to be "free spirited, anarchic, spontaneous, community creation" etc.
Why is this total BS? Quite simply, BM does not make any such claim. Every legal standard that applies in the "real world" also applies at BM, except public nudity, intoxication and pyrotechnics. There are cops. Drugs are still illegal and you can be arrested. BM lays out a whole slew of other rules -- they regulate noise, pollution, use of motor vehicles, activities of media and other professionals, they hold and enforce trademarks, employ lawyers. If they didn't do this, the event would be a catastrophe. It would be discontinued. If you spend any time at all reading their official literature and communications you would notice that they spend a significant portion of it re-iterating the rules because they are the glue that holds it all together. Zawinski has clearly never actually spent time reading this material as his analysis gives only anectodal quotes taken out of context with no reference and quotes from unofficial sources (e.g. media articles).
If BM asks for a cut of the proceeds, does that mean they are automatically going to sell unlimited rights to the highest bidder? NO. They allow what they think is appropriate. If BM files a lawsuit to stop distribution of Voyer Video's material, does that mean they are just after the money? NO. They are seeking control, not money. Therein is the logical disconnect -- there is no hypocracy.
Zawinski's interpretation is totally polarized, and wholly unrealistic. He is living in a fantasy.
And its too bad he let rzr_grl be scared away by the contract, she probably would have gotten some great photos.
Burning Man is NOT anarchy and has never claimed to be.
c ture.html
Neither has Zawinski. Stick to the point.
Burning Man is a (non-profit) corporation.
Non profit? try facts. It's an for-profit LLC that just happens to operates at break even, after making tons of art grants.
http://afterburn.burningman.com/04/financial_stru
"Our problem, however, was that we could not afford to work at guiding and creating Burning Man without being paid."
This comes straight from the horse's mouth. how do you argue with that?
"If you don't agree, then don't go."
Er, he's not. That's what he (Zawinski) is saying.
It's a shame that the abuses of a few end up ruining perfectly good artisitic opportunities for others.
I've had to realize, myself, that there is tons of hypocrisy at BM. It's not a "city" - we are not "citizens". We do not elect representatives or vote. We are not a democracy. Burning Man is a private event. Most of us may be participants (although the ratio is getting rather pronounced), but that just means we are consuming opportunities to interact in novel ways, rather than passive entertainment or art itself.
It's curious that, more recently, Burning Man is so busy encouraging the political worldview that the event nurtures to be spread back to the world, while it takes such strong measures to remain unnoticed by the world it's trying to effect.
They are a LLC - Limited Liability Corporation. The distinction between these analogies is laughable because Disney is 100% FOR PROFIT corporation. The BORG (Burning Man Organization tongue in cheek moniker) may not be 'non-profit' but their goals are the defined on a more social and artistic nature. I've been going to Burning Man for five years now and while I may agree that they are not doing it perfect, but they're doing it a heck of a lot better than anything else out there. The "hippie movement"'s high water mark broke years ago, this new social movement is still gathering it's energy and Burning Man is but one beachhead pushing out against the right wing world. And how ridiculous is $200 when you break it down by comparison to what equivelent situations exist. If it is just $10 / night to go camping in a national park and $20 / night to go to a huge club in major metropolitan centers. That's still $210 for a week. For those who 'get it' Burning Man offers so much more to their spirits that others who don't often can't comprehend why one takes such a arduous trip into the desert.
nt
hypocritical: professing feelings or virtues one does not have.
Environmentalists drive cars. Overworked doctors cannot spend sufficient time to address the needs of every patient. In "democratic america", judges are appointed to the highest courts with life-long terms. BM needs money, rules and legal services to survive. And yet, these entities still posess some aspect of the virtue they profess, and in no small quantity. As long as they guide their actions with pragmatism and stay true, to the extent that is realistic, to their principles, it is not hypocracy.
To call it hypocracy is extremism. Its a psychologically comfortable place to be because its a logically defensible position -- but strictly logical arguments are almost never applicable in the real world, which is filled with conflict in almost every system. We can pick facts and take quotes out of context all day without breaking the rules of logic... but that does not mean the conclusions are sound.
Political parties constantly exploit this effect to their advantage -- and the media does it also, because extremism is exciting. So its no suprise that the mentality has become so pervasive in mainstream consciousness. I think its unfortunate because this cynicism seems to cause a great deal more suffering than is necessary.
Sometimes I feel like people need to criticize BM so they can come up with an excuse to not go. Its like turning down an invitation to a party, you don't want to look like a dork for doing it so you come up with some stupid reason. I say its not for everyone, just accept that (there are certainly things that I would rather do, it depends on my mood). BM strives to create an "experience" for one week, but that is really where it ends. Unlike Disney, BM is not trying to take over the world.
Dust, at Burning Man? Suck it up for god's sake, you've done this before. Any attempt to reduce dust from your experience will be wasted effort.
Embrace the dust. Become one with the dust.
Why did you write Judeo-Christian instead of Jewish and Christian?
I used "Judeo-Christian" because Christianity is based on Judism. Jews believed a Savior or Messiah come to redeem believers. When Jesus, who was Jewish, was supposedly born some took him as the Messiah. They then took what he taught and started the Christian religion. So, I used Judeo-Christian because Christianity got it's start in Judaism.
Perhaps I should explain why I said "supposedly born" above. I used it because I don't believe or know if such a person was born. I am agnostic, "a", without and "gnosis" knowledge, I don't possess the knowledge on whether a soul or spirit exists and if there's life after death and I'm jealous of those who have faith.
As for when I said "most Judeo-Christian holidays, sacred days, and celibrations have pagan or Zoroastan roots", admittedly I was overbroad. Perhaps it would of been more accurate to say some Christian holidays may of come from previous beliefs such as pagan beliefs and some early churchs were built on sites that were spiritually significant to those who were there before. My use of "pagan" was also broad encompassing pantheism and polytheism such as wicca, and others. It was a poor choice of words, I used it as a shortcut or way to cut words out. But I've gotten comments from others saying less words are better, that using a lot of words leads to confusion (like I'm doing now?) and I didn't expect many ./ers to have much knowledge on the subject.
My OED dates its use to 1899
Ooh, what edition of the OED do you have? I'd love to get the full 20 volumn edition of the OED.
And I hope I didn't cause any discomfort, I didn't mean to, I sometimes "shoot from the hips". Your post I found well formed and I need to work making all of mine the same. Because of an injury I suffered, I'm a TBI, Traumatic Brain Injury survivor, amoung other things I have poor impulse control.
FalconShould there be a Law?