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Allard 'Gets Real' With IGN
schnikies79 writes "In an interview with IGN, Microsoft's Corporate Vice President Chief Architect J. Allard said he wants to work with competitors on the XBox 360. From the interview: 'I'm pro consumer on this one to the end,' says Allard. 'Anybody in my company who thought this was a bad idea to plug in Sony or Apple devices into this thing, I ended that conversation pretty quickly. This is the right thing to do for consumers. Once they invest $500 in their digital media library, you can't ask them to go buy a 360 music player and a 360 digital camera, and a 360...NO! They got their stuff. They're going to want to plug it in. We're going to be open here, guys. And if anything, I wish we could be more cooperative with the other companies that are doing those things. And if Sony or Apple were to call me up and say, "Hey, we want to some special things with the 360," I'm on it. I think it would not be in anybody's interest to say, we're not going to work with 360. It's good for them, it's good for us, and it's good for consumers.'"
This is the right thing to do for consumers.
I wonder who leaves Microsoft shareholder gatherings covered in rotten tomatoes!
Do you like German cars?
I hope for the sake of the consumers, that he get's his way.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
How about the numerous tests, both independent and Microsoft-sponsored that show iPods and PSP's interfacing with the 360?
I bet it'll turn out to be satire in the end.
For Apple or Sony to approach him is a very large 'IF'.
Sony wants to sell its PS[n], while it may be good for the camera end of Sony or the Music end of Sony, they're probably not so far apart these days as to assist a competitor of the video game console end of Sony.
Microsoft's Corporate Vice President Chief Architect J. Allard said he wants to work with competitors on the XBox 360.
"Come in to my parlour", said the spider to the fly.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Strange, if microsoft feels that way why don't they release controllers or cameras for the playstation2? Oh that's because they wouldn't want to risk the industry standardizing on anything but their product. Could that be the same reason apple and sony aren't jumping at the opportunity jump on the 360 bandwagon... maybe.
Shadus
Please note that this offer is available for our first time customers only.
Haven't certified a game yet? And launch is less than a month away? Sounds like there's going to be some supply problems in the very near future.
My Video Blog!
Read my previous thoughts on this matter here: http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=16623 3&cid=13866885
He may be telling the truth but I have a hard time believing him.
Actually, I may believe him but it's hard to imagine 1 Microsoft guy doing something that every one of their MBAs and Gates himself do not want.
Microsoft has been fighting open standards/interfaces for 2-3 decades.
I think I speak for all of us when I see WE'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN WE SEE IT!
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
One of Microsoft's Corporate Vice Presidents saying the following,
It's good for them, it's good for us, and it's good for consumers.
Makes me think...
The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he does not exist.
The opposition (i.e. the ones who lost), are always the most patriotic, righteous, etc.
The Raven
*kicks consumer in the nuts*
"Hey buddy, I'm not kicking you in the nuts!"
*kicks consumer in the nuts*
...then why are the games and system region-coded?
If he really was concerned about the consumers, why not create products to plug into the Playstation/PSP or the IPod?
Forgive my cynicism, but I think the main reason is because Apple's IPod and Sony's Playstation have a much larger share than Microsoft's XBox. Of course, Microsoft would want to play "fair", since it'll benefit the XBox 360 more than it would benefit the products of the other companies.
Why shouldn't this happen? Microsoft is never going to be on the forefront of the device market. Why not make it compatible with Apple and Sony devices? Then they can stick it to Apple and say they're open with their technologies, why is iTunes and iPod such closed devices. They are not losing market share with this ploy, but they are going to get a lot of positive PR.
That is, if you don't start charging a license fee to plug into the 360... Then we'll see how many other companies produce products for it.
So, can I plug my Nintendo 64 controller into my new XBox 360?
Development notes at http://devscribbles.blogspot.com
what does the slashdot crowd do when, shock and horror, after spending years repeating the same litany of simple lessons about intellectual property, interoperability, secure code, etc., that someone in the industry actually wakes up and starts listening and says "yeah, you're right" and changes their practices accordingly?
i think some of you have based your entire understanding of reality on the fact that these guys will just never get it
well, and i'm not saying this 360 move is it or not, what if someday they actually get it?
a 500,000 ton tanker has difficulty changing course, but, lo and behold, that doesn't mean it can't actually change course, SLOWLY, but inevitably
these guys just might come around to the slashdot crowd's way of thinking after all
then what will the slashdot crowd do? what will be their purpose for living then? LOL
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
In the future, this guy is getting one of these (or both)
1.termination letter from Gates
2.torpedo of chair from Ballmer.
"They're being a little sloppy with the CPU, they're being a little sloppy with the discs, they're being a little sloppy with their formats and compression to make launch."
Wow man, thanks for pushing me to the other side of the fence on the "Buy a 360" or not question.
Seriously though, I played one at Walmart the other day, and the Kong game had terrible aliasing problems. Edges on most everything looked very, very blocky, and I was surprised they put the game out there looking like that.
I was abundantly obvious that they weren't pro consumer on the last one...damn thompson drives...
The gates in my computer are AND, OR and NOT; they are not Bill.
Hey great Idea.
"Yeah see everyone, we made the 360 work with that stuff, but if it doesn't work for you, that's Sony/Apple's fault, not ours."
Like I said, we geeks at Slashdot have been fighting Microsoft's desire to dominate the industry with monopolistic tendencies for the past 2-3 decades.
How many of us have coded Open Source applications that try to read in Microsoft files. It's not easy. Look at how long it took us to get OpenOffice.org able to read and write back *.doc files decently.
As if you need another example, look at XML. Microsoft wants their own XML. Get real.
They'd own all of us if they could. Their goal is to show profit and that's it, they don't give 2 sh*ts about you my friend. They want to get you into their products and make you buy more and more from them.
The XBOX 360 better let me use a standard Firewire/USB to browse files I have on other devices. Just what do you expect from a $500 piece of plastic and $70 game system?
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
2. Extend
3. Extinguish
Or has everyone forgotten?
How can we trust Microsoft to leave open standards and not pigeon-hole us into their entertainment platform after they've spent the past 20 years doing the exact opposite to the Windows platform?
This is not about open standards. This is classic double-speak, in the Orwellian tradition. This is saying "we are opening up the Xbox 360" when what they are *really* saying is "we have the Xbox 360 and we would like all other companies to open their products up to it." He's painting MS as the good guy and backhandedly saying it's everybody else's fault if they don't want to make products that conform to MS's vision.
All MS has done with the 360 is make it mass-storage compliant. So it'll work with any other device that's also mass storage compliant. Then he says something to the effect of "but if other companies who are not mass storage compliant would like to make 360 products, we'd love to have them." In other words, "Oh, so the iPod doesn't support Janus? Well, that's Apple's fault, isn't it?"
I hope nobody is fooled by this. Of course, every company - Sony, Nintendo, MS, whoever - would love it if all their competitors suddenly started supporting their products. But business doesn't work that way. MS knows that, but they're obviously trying to sell consoles here. This is called "public relations".
Is it good that the Xbox 360 is mass storage compliant and supports Windows DRM? I guess the first part of that is ok, though nothing special, and the last part is not something I'm really interested in. But the spin that's being put on this is really intended to make MS's competitors look bad for not toeing MS's line; it's not about actually doing anything for the consumer, because MS must know that they're really not doing anything for the consumer.
I say someone from Sun should call him up trying to get a 360 OpenDocument viewer going.
I guess my real question is: will they allow people to run Linux or BSD on the 360 without having to hack the hardware?
Noted in the article is that a lot of developers are already complaining about having to squeeze things onto a DVD ("We're not where we'd like to be with compression" is his reply). That makes Sony's Blu-Ray move look pretty smart, as it seems like a next-gen system should have next-gen storage abilities.
Again you have to wonder why Microsoft did not wait a little until they could ship with HD-DVD drives. The whole thing feels really rushed and experimental.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Although we will have to wait and see Allard certainly is saying the right things. More importantly, Sony has a slightly more powerful machine, but MS has XBox live. Any gamer knows, live is pretty sick, and PS3 has no answer to it. As more details are revealed about both systems, xbox seems to be more conducive to both large and small developers, again, bad for sony.
PS3's big plus over the xbox is Blu-ray (if it takes off). However, if the telco and cable company's multi-billion dollar push for streaming high def video over the web takes off, then hd-dvd and lu-ray will become obsolete before they hit shelfs... only good for storage.
I don't know who will win this round, but right now my money is on the xbox. Sony is loosing allot more money then MS is on each console, and the console is really that more powerful, at least according to the dozens of developers I've talked to/ worked with. I personally haven't developed for either yet, but anticipate I will sometime next year. The developers I talked too aren't in love with the cell at all. Apparently you really can't use all the cores the way you would expect.
I'm going to buy both consoles, but I'm really not the average user... it will be interesting to see how sony handles xbox's initial success this year.
Microsoft has always proved more than willing to suffoc... er, embrace and extend *any* competitor's product.
My sig is too lon
They're going to want to plug it in. [...] And if Sony or Apple were to call me up and say, "Hey, we want to some special things with the 360,"
and I'm sure they are going to tell them where they can plug it in.
Back in the day, Allard was one of the first guys to champion Microsoft's adoption of TCP/IP. Later, he got pulled into "Project 42", a disastrous attempt to come up with some Windows monstrosity that was supposed to counter thin-client platforms (like Java) but never got off the ground despite its team of fifteen hundred. After that he took a leave of absence, and only agreed to come back if he got to lead the development efforts for the Xbox and do it free of bureaucracy. They call Allard and some of the other guys like him "Baby Bills".
Tristan Yates
Moderators, stop using drugs.
The parent post is crap.
Every company in the world would love to beat every other company into submission and then have them talk how nice they are that they let these beaten down companies market their little devices that work on the product.
It would be like GM saying their vehicles are the best so Ford and DiemlerChrysler should stop making vehicles but can still make tires and oh I don't know maybe radios that work in GM cars.
WAY TO LOOK LIKE THE GOOD GUY MICROSOFT BUT REALLY BE THE BAD GUY.
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
How about the numerous tests, both independent and Microsoft-sponsored that show iPods and PSP's interfacing with the 360?
As long as the iPod has its mp3's stored in the iPod's mass storage area (in other words, so you can't actually play them through the iPod) and they actually are mp3's, and not DRM'd AAC files from the iTunes Music Store.
For both of these reasons, the 360's "iPod support" is completely useless. You can't buy a song from Apple, sync your iPod with your PC, then connect it to the 360 and play those songs. You can't even do it with your own ripped files from CD, unless you manually drag them over to a folder on your iPod, which your iPod then doesn't even know exists (but the Xbox 360 does).
The PSP support is probably different, because as I understand it, with the PSP you just dump a bunch of mp3 files into a folder and it plays them. Still, there's nothing revolutionary about being able to get these files off there. It's just transferring a bunch of files from one device to another.
Is M$ actually working for consumers, or did I suddenly forget how to read properly?
This sig is false.
a MS rep says something positive getting posted on Slashdot is the equivilant of posting a "book 2 is boring" article on TheOneRing.net
No suprise on the reaction. Group dynamics maintained.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Q: Some people say the Xbox 360 looks the same as other systems. That it is just more of the same, just more powerful than the other systems. That it's just more graphics, more polygons, more, more, more. What will it do that is different?
A: [...] What do you want? You know, it's an interesting question. You know, do you want it to be a holographic experience that you play in your bathtub? We could have made it different... [...] And if you go too far, and you try to change the category altogether and we give you a wacky controller, or I'm going to give you wacky games that you don't really understand, and we're going to market it or price it in a wacky way, I think we would have been very much a failure.
Nowhere does neither the interviewer or Allard mention the N-word, but it's there between the lines...
If Microsoft truly opens up XBOX 360 like Allard says, I'll buy 10,000 Slashdot users Premium Subscriptions.
Sincerely,
Work Account
If you "get" pointers add me as a friend (116)!
for Allard to become the new Microsoft CEO? I for one WOULD welcome this corporate Overlord!
Did... did we just enter Bizarro World? I'm confused... Does Bizarro Microsoft give its programs out for free and have everyone drooling over them while trying to fight the evil Bizarro Linux empire from patenting air?
Should I be expecting a hot super model to show up naked at my door step?
Hell, in Bizarro World, why not!
I'm impressed by all these tests showing how the finished product is compatible with everything else!
Except that the finished product isn't out yet, and that we're being asked to take it on faith that Microsoft will go and do something that's contrary to practically everything they've been doing technologically since standards started getting agreed on.
I find your naivete rather charming.
My sig is too lon
Way to sell your new system. I don't know about anyone else, but I read that as 'We're really rushing this thing to market to beat Sony, and the early games might be as botched as that EA football game on the PSP, but hey! In a year from now, we'll probably have figured out how to do some really neat stuff!' And then adding on the next page, 'In the meantime, you can buy all these cool customised fascias! That's gotta be worth something, right?'
You must think in Russian.
Really, they may be on to something here, and it could increase sales greatly. You could use iTunes to load up your iPod, and not own a "proper" PC or Apple computer. I don't think that they are trying to compete with Nintendo at all - Nintendo has taken the Revolution far enough afield, you could almost say it is in a different genre of games console from the MS and Sony products. That just leaves the PS3. Including a feature like this could help encourage consumers to adopt the XBox 360 before the PS3 release occurs. It might be a valid selling point for homes without a PC, allowing them to use those digital devices to their full extent without a PC.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
2) Microsoft likely don't care, so long as your boats dock at their port.
3) The last thing Microsoft needs is for Apple to succeed with their digital hub thing. Giving up the peripheral market they never had to competitors in order to maintain their control of the 'hub' is probably A-OK.
4) Peripherals are more competitive and diverse than whatever you plug them into anyway. I doubt Microsoft really want that kind of stress.
5) Mind/marketshare matters more at this point than total control, and if people know the 360 works with everything, they'll be more likely to buy one. Once they get people hooked on their goodies, it's much easier to fuck them over. People are more likely to buy the next XBox than some other thing if they already have one.
Opportunity knocks. Karma hunts you down.
What's he doing specifically to ensure the XBox is different than every previous "embrace and extend" Microsoft campaign? What's not different is that he's telling the media the MS wants to be "open, consumer-driven, interoperable", that they've "learned the lesson", that "this time will be different". Talk is cheap - vendor lockin is expensive.
--
make install -not war
Attn: Console Competitors,
We are the Microsoft. We will add your technological and biological distinctiveness to our own. If that's okay with you.
Sicerely,
Microsoft Borg Collective.
crazy dynamite monkey
which is worse: drm or a microsoft product?
tough decision, but i'd go with drm.
it would be really cool if you could play songs from the mass storage area on the ipod (even though i don't own one)
so let me get this straight -
MS is willing to work with their competitors to allow their periherals and devices link and utilize the 360 - thus reinforcing MS' goal of the 360 the entertainment hub of a household. Gee, I guess MS is taking a *HUGE* risk by trying to increase the value of 360 by being so open with this system.
Or they're just like every other major company out there. They don't know how many hands they've got, nevermind what each one is doing. I think Microsoft used to manage its hands pretty well. One would be holding you up by the throat, one would be picking your pocket and one would be pushing a box of software at your gut. Now they mostly just flail around. The bigger the company, the more hands. The more hands, the more confused they each are about what they're supposed to be doing and what the other ones are doing. No surprise.
~Someday, I hope to be an aspiring author.
which is worse: drm or a microsoft product?
That's a bit of a false dichotomy -- do you seriously think that M$ won't sneak DRM in there?
My sig is too lon
Remember, we've got more mod points than you!
-Sincerely
Microsoft Legal Team
*Runs out to buy gas, matches and bundles of wood*...
Fuck it, if hells freezing over I'm gonna be prepared
You know, do you want it to be a holographic experience that you play in your bathtub?
Yes. Yes. Yes.
In related news, Microsoft's Corporate Vice President Chief Architect J. Allard was abruptly fired today by CEO Steve Balmer for conduct unbecoming a Microsoft Executive. Said Balmer, "I don't get his guy. What part of 'we need to kill them! Bury them!' did he not hear at the last staff meeting?"
And if Sony or Apple were to call me up and say, "Hey, we want to some special things with the 360,"
Dear Microsoft,
Would Blu-Ray count as special?
Your boossum buddy,
-Sony
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Who's being proprietary, then? no, it's not like how the original Xbox controllers were USB with a proprietary plug, the 360's controllers will use STANDARD USB connections and interface. you can plug them straight into your PC *BY DESIGN*.
I mean, we are making a system to play videogames. It is a rectangular box with a power supply that hooks up to the TV with a game controller. (Laughter.) What do you want? You know, it's an interesting question. You know, do you want it to be a holographic experience that you play in your bathtub? We could have made it different...
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the third itineration of the Xbox!
Goo goo g'joob.
In one fell swoop they've put reverse engineers out of action. Now if you want to make an Apple or Sony device interoperate with an X-Box 360 you won't have to hack your device or install a mod-chip. How selfish! They put a whole industry out of business. How typical of Microsoft to shaft people this way.
I woNder If the geNTlEmaN DOes have somebody in mind with that statement?
You must think in Russian.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
So why would a corporation try to spin themselves as "pro-consumer"? One of two reasons:
It really is that simple. Any corporation that isn't seeking to maximize profits for its shareholders is liable for all kinds of nasty lawsuits. The only question is how many dirty tricks are shareholders willing to put up with, how nasty of a reputation can be put forth before non-captive consumers turn their backs, and just how vicious can they become before the government steps in and smacks their noses with a rolled up legal code?
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
As long as MSFT gets a cut. Why else would they close and lock the Xbox 360 peripherals:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000417054017/
People are dying, yet you have the time to troll slashdot.
...I would love to have Linux running on your little sexy Xbox...
The reason for this is really very simple: MS was late to the market and as a result they weren't able to dominate the market. By opening up the XBox to play other formats they are opening up the market for their device. Microsoft hasn't changed its stripes. They only want to work with their competitors when its financially beneficial for them to do so.
Personally, I'd rather be one of the customers that gets it right rather then one of the ones that doesn't...!
the 360's controllers will use STANDARD USB connections and interface. you can plug them straight into your PC *BY DESIGN*.
True, but will they speak standard USB HID? Or will they speak a dialect of USB HID that's just different enough to throw off mainstream operating systems' preinstalled drivers (as the original Xbox did)? Or will they speak something encrypted?
"So why would a corporation try to spin themselves as "pro-consumer"? One of two reasons:
To make people think they are pro-consumer so they buy more of their products
To be able to claim to governments, judges and juries that they are pro-consumer"
Did it ever cross your mind that actually BEING pro-consumer could mean more profit?
Not everything is "spin" or an "illusion." Maybe this is Microsoft's thinking here. The fact you think this is spin (and I bet if Nintendo came out with the same statement, nobody would call it spin, they would call it revolutionary) shows your anti-MS bias.
Ms aren't totally opposed to open standards. For certain values of open. Open in the Microsoft owned and nothing to do with using non microsoft OS on a desktop PC or server, but published, and free to use They're reluctant to allow any compatibility with their strongholds, but aside from those, are quite willing to assist anybody who wants to make their hardware or software compliant with Microsoft's interfaces.
These are opposing world views.
The actual quote in my body text is a paraphrased version of something Jesus said about giving to charity. Perhaps he said it a couple of other places as well.
one man's flamebait is another man's funny, I suppose. (note I dropped my karma bonus here, for any mods that wish to mod me into oblivion)
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Nice to see that this "pro consumer" attitude unfortunately doesn't extend to the video parts of the Xbox 360, which require a Windows Media Centre PC and only supports WMV.
If they'd just allowed the usual video formats, they'd have a sure fire winner. For now, I'm sticking to my Xbox with XBMC as my HTPC.
Thalasar
But iPods and PSPs can only be used as media storage/retrieval devices, right? Last I heard you can't use an external storage device like the iPod or the PSP as a memory card or a replacement for the XBox HD.
So it seems to me like the XBox 360 is only open in a very limited sense.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
You can with a Iaudio m3 and x3, its kinda cool, although it does mean slightly increased boot up times.
Well worth it for me.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Sounds like they have actually decided to take google as a threat, and are making sure they have plenty of allies to help them out, if, and when google decides to p00n them.
For all of its monopolizing and vendor lock-in, a Windows PC is still a much more open platform than any game console. For god's sake, every console game pays a license fee to the console manufacturer. If he wants to make the Xbox360 more similar to a Windows PC, that would definitely make it more Free than any other console.
Catch 22: It doesn't benefit Microsoft unless it benefits consumers and other companies accept it, but it doesn't benefit consumers and other companies unless it doesn't compete and, indeed, bolster's MS's portfolio.
Is this guy for real?
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Microsoft exists to make a profit. It does not exist for any other reason. The sole reason for the corporation is to make money for Gates and the stockholders. Period. This is the only reason any corporation exists - Exxon, McDonald's, Apple, Boeing, GM, Dow Corning, Intel, AMD... they exist to make money.
So why would a corporation try to spin themselves as "pro-consumer"? One of two reasons:
It really is that simple. Any corporation that isn't seeking to maximize profits for its shareholders is liable for all kinds of nasty lawsuits. The only question is how many dirty tricks are shareholders willing to put up with, how nasty of a reputation can be put forth before non-captive consumers turn their backs, and just how vicious can they become before the government steps in and smacks their noses with a rolled up legal code?
You are correct in the sense that corporations exist to make a profit. However, this does not mean that there isn't a way to give the consumer what they want and still make money doing it.
There are a lot of business theories out there that say by seriously and actually putting the consumer first, you will maximize the shareholders profit in the long term - not just to meet this quarter's earnings report. Check out Built to Last by Jim Collins - specifically his "third myth" of successful companies - "The most successful companies exist first and foremost to maximize profits." He goes on to describe how that isn't true.
There are a lot of Slashdot types who think that there is this great war being fought out there where companies are all trying to screw us out of our money. Now I'm not saying that a lot of companies aren't trying to do exactly that. There are (see SBC, Microsoft, etc). But what I am saying is that there are a number of companies out there that actually do try to be pro-consumer, and just happen to make a lot of money doing it. Some examples:
I could go on and on.
Yes, hence my comment "To make people think they are pro-consumer so they buy more of their products".
The officers of a corporation have a primary duty to the shareholders. First, foremost and above all else. If they happen to craft a pro-consumer image in the process great for them, even better for me. But any pro-consumer or anti-consumer strategies are only means to an end. They aren't really "pro-consumer" any more than driving from Atlanta to Miami makes me "pro I-75".
I'll say it again because it is such an incredibly important concept: corporations - including Microsoft - are pro-profit and do not exist for any other reason. Any stance, for or against, they adopt towards the consumers is secondary.
Non sequitur. If anything I should probably be accused of being pro-MS since I am defending their efforts to make lots of money.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
Excellent observations ...
.. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
maybe we can use the data from apple's switch to a "pay-per-plug" model with the ipod
That's different. Apple's program is a certification mark "MADE FOR IPOD", and vendors of unlicensed devices are still free to make nominative use, stating that products are "Compatible with iPod® brand digital music players. (This device is not sponsored or endorsed by the owner of the iPod trademark.)" Microsoft, on the other hand, would probably require some sort of cryptographic handshake between the console and any digital peripheral and would likely use DMCA based bullying (despite the pro-competitive result of Lexmark v. Static Control).
" You can't buy a song from Apple, sync your iPod with your PC, then connect it to the 360 and play those songs. You can't even do it with your own ripped files from CD, unless you manually drag them over to a folder on your iPod, which your iPod then doesn't even know exists (but the Xbox 360 does)."
You can't do that with any system and an Ipod. It is not a limitation or neutering of the 360, it is a product of the way the Itunes DB is implemented in the Ipod.
That was really all I wanted to say but I feel stupid leaving all this space empty.
Therefore I will attempt to fill it with nicely formatted text so that it will at least have the appearance of a good quality post with relevant information.
Now that I have your complete and undivided attention I would like to propose to you this;
We should raise monkeys as humans just to see if they really are a close part of our evolutionary chain.
Points for are 347, points against are 262. As you can plainly see there are more points for than against. Therefore without prejudice or taking up arms against our neighbors we should unite toward the cause and fulfill our destiny within our lifetime. Or we can just sit in the corner and eat tomatoes. Like I said earlier I made my point in the first sentence and all this, everything below the first line, is pure filler and is intended only to give the to the reader the appearance of a richly thought out and formatted post/reply. I will end this post/reply now in the hopes that you, the reader, have not been disappointed in your reading experience.
P.S. I was going to use big words like monotonous and tranquility probably even interdisciplinary and education but opted against it for reasons I would rather keep to myself.
i do know that the controller does connect directly to windows PCs just fine
Windows PCs, or Windows XP PCs? I'm using Windows 2000 on a computer that's old enough to have come with it preinstalled. It won't run more modern games, but it will still run a lot of the classic games and handheld games in emulation, as well as older Windows games. If the driver for Xbox 360 controllers requires Windows 5.1 or later (XP or Vista), then I'm sticking to my Dual Shock controllers connected to my PC through an EMS USB2 adapter.
"Once they invest $500 in their digital media library, you can't ask them to go buy a 360 music player and a 360 digital camera, and a 360...NO! They got their stuff." but they are going to force us to get another player so we can play our xvid's?????
I never intended to suggest that it can't be done. With a few exceptions (various utility companies, insurance and healthcare companies come to mind *) corporations make money by meeting a demand to the satisfaction of their customers. Even Microsoft satisfies a demand - on the whole people buy MS products because, to an extent, they work well enough to get by. People demand pr0n, Redmond provides an easy way for them to get some. People demand entertainment, Redmond provides a gateway to some games that are rather enjoyable. People want to listen to music. Redmond provides one of many basic frameworks that allows people to play .mp3 files. Any OS that couldn't deliver games, music and sex, in some proportional combination thereof, wouldn't enjoy any significant market share in today's world.
But on many levels Microsoft isn't giving people what they demand. I want a quick-booting, secure operating system that doesn't require separate utilities to monitor against viral and annelidic activity, doesn't allow 3rd parties to spy on me or install software without my permission, and will work as reliably as a lightbulb. After 20 years MS is still refusing to deliver a computer as virus-resistant as the Commodore 64. I personally don't care if my Windows 95 games don't work on the next platform - they often don't work right anyway. Backwards compatibility is not what I am demanding but MS is ignoring what I, the consumer, wants.
Ben & Jerry gave me something I wanted at what I believed to be a fair price. For awhile there Northwest Airlines gave me something I wanted at what I believed to be a fair price. I am more than happy to fork over my money for the brands of Craftsman, Brother, Wendy's, Domino's, or Holiday Inn because when I am sleepy, hungry, need to set up an office multi-function device or have a protruding nail or an untorqued nut these companies - which exist only to try and convince me to surrender my money - provide something I perceive as value. I never forget for a second that they only want my money, but I don't mind. That's the way the system works.
But companies such as Microsoft, Exxon-Mobil, Pfizer, Pacific Gas & Electric or Sony Entertainment have no interest in providing value - and get quite rich off of it. Their business plan is exclusively based upon the idea of doing the absolute minimum necessary to get paid. To think for even a second that these companies are pro-consumer is laughable.
*There are certain industries - such as healthcare, insurance and energy that have a captive market. If you don't pay for healthcare, you die. If you don't buy insurance in many (all?) states you can't drive a car and make a living, and you certainly can't buy a house with a mortgage which is how most people must purchase living quarters. If you don't pay for water and electric many cities will condemn your house and throw you out on the streets. These companies certainly have no vested interest in creating any significant value for the consumer because they know you are forced by either law or death to consume.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
If it's worth anything, a recent grad from my university came back to the CS department here for a visit after a few months working at MS's XBOX division. He brought a 360 and told us all to bring our iPods with (with our own USB connection cords). I didn't have a chance to show up, but I presume he demonstrated exaclty what J. Allard is talking about.
they force me to buy their shitty media center as a lot of stuff can only be streamed from that. They also force me to stream from any other attached device and prevent to copy to the internal HD which would be the convenient thing for consumers.
Allard 'Gets Real' With IGN
What a stupid headline. Not to mention a stupid story. Slashdot readers are all a bunch of stiffly stiffersons. I want to prank you all in my basement for hours with my tire iron.
You forgot one very important reason why they might say they're pro-consumer. Companies that are pro consumer make money. Companies that aren't pro consumer don't make money..at least not for long. Making your customers happy is good business. A company can try to maximize profit AND be pro consumer. Take off the tinfoil hat dude.
I can't believe everybody seemingly bashing Microsoft for this. Yes, they're doing it with their interests at heart, that's true. But would you rather them not do it at all? "I can utilize my iPod with my 360? Wow, that *would* be cool, but I'm sure Microsoft only did it to increase profits. Take it away! I don't want that compatibility! Greedy bastards, trying to add features that make more people want the console!"
From what I understand, Microsoft won't let 3rd parties make controllers for their system for 1 year. This means you have to pay a premium for their controllers and if you don't like the design, tough. Want to plug in an adapter to let you use the old controllers? Nope. What about those nifty adapters that allow you to use GameCube or Dreamcast controllers on your Xbox? No way.
Must be for the good of the consumers, right?
Sadly, I believe you. Even though the GP is not a troll, the score reflected it.
Please give three examples how Comcast is pro-consumer.
Glaxo?
Westinghouse?
Any of Andrew Carnigie's companies?
Standard Oil... that was an exceptionally pro-consumer company, no?
Tinfoil hats are unnecessary... there is no conspiracy. Pro-consumer companies can do exceptionally well (but if they become too pro-consumer then they quickly fold).
Crack dealers make lots of money - are they pro-consumer?
It isn't hard to be anti-consumer and still make gobs of cash: you only have to sell a product the consumer values or needs more than their desire to avoid your abuse. Has anybody ever accused Ameritech of being pro-consumer? Certainly not the people around here who went 9 weeks and longer without service. How many HMOs bend over backwards for you? Consider all of the hospitals that think nothing of letting you fester in the ER lobby for hours before even bothering to put you in front of the triage nurse or cut nurse staffing levels to the point where people die for lack of care?
There are many other environments and industries that are decidedly anti-consumer yet still rake in lots and lots of profit - with no sign of those dividends dropping anytime soon.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
localization issues would prevent all but the most hardcore (who already import games anyway) from going to the trouble [of importing].
Nihongo isn't everything. Apart from some loud-mouthed pedantic trolls ("it's COLOUR not COLOR!"), speakers of English as she is spoke in Ireland, New Zealand, UK, and Australia should have no trouble reading the American English text. Besides, the menus on games such as DDR and Beatmania are easy to figure out even if you don't know katakana from Roseanne Conner.
games cost the same no matter what has to be licensed.
Then why isn't Jump Superstars coming to North America?
Point is that even though you say it doesn't affect price, publishers of games and of underlying works are already locked into long-term exclusive licenses, and game publishers demand that console makers assist in enforcing the territoriality of those licenses. To make it a bit more concrete: Imagine if one company (call it EA) had the NFL license in North America but another company (call it FB) had the NFL license in Europe and NZ/AU. Would EA want to publish on a system where its "Maddening" NFL games would have to compete with FB's NFL games?
As I read the comments made by mister Allard concerning the development theyput a lot of 'care' in the console... can't wait to see the first B.o.D. during a game...
The Dutch will inherit the earth. If not, we'll settle for a bit of ocean. Beta delenda est!
The Xbox360 will be a polished media front end. If I could serve it from my Linux server, I'd be on the waiting list. As it is, I'll wait until someone makes a mod-chip.
LB
If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.
Big-time. Let's think. What are there more of, iPods or Xbox360s? Ok, that's a little unfair. What are there more of, iPods or Xboxes? Sony cameras, PSPs, and other Sony-brand audio and video devices, or Xboxes? Somehow I think we all have iPods and Sony cameras/videocameras/media devices, but only some of us are even considering an Xbox360.
Sony and Apple don't need the XBox, and they don't need to work with it, either. The Xbox needs to work with *them*. Either MS has already approached both companies about ensuring compatability, or MS knows they'd just get laughed out of the room if they did...
This is such thinly veiled marketing garbage, to even suggest that it's Apple's or Sony's job to even think about such an issue.
It's easy to list companies that you have legitimate gripes with and say they're anti-consumer. But I can just as easily list good companies that are pro consumer and make loads of money because of it. Here are a few off the top of my head. McDonalds is pro consumer because they provide a decent product in (usually) clean restaurants with with quick and polite service. People go to McDonalds over and over not because they have the best food but because the overall experience is positive. And the company makes lots of $$ in the process. Amazon is pro consumer becaues they offer a huge selection of products at reasonable prices and save me time because I don't have to drive to the store to make my purchase. Proctor & Gamble is pro consumer because I can buy a gigantic container of Tide at my local Costco (another pro consumer company) for next to nothing. I can even take a stab at some of your examples of anti consumer companies. Comcast is pro-consumer because they made a DVR that is good enough to make me willing to drop my more expensive Tivo subscription. Standard Oil is/was pro consumer because they made gasoline incredibly cheap by building thousands of refineries. They were obviously anti-competitive but that's different than being anti-consumer. I don't know a lot about Ameritech but do know they're a phone service provider. If they're not sufficiently pro consumer then they will eventually go out of business. Phone service - especially residential phone service - is becoming increasingly competitive. The companies that survive will be the companies that please their customers.
So what if you have an iPod with all MP3's (no DRM) and want to play them using the 360? Same problem!!
What the original poster was saying is that the 360 only mounts storage devices and finds files in directories on them. Perhaps it would find the iPod files in hidden directories it normally keeps them, but that would be more of a hack and possibly would break on iPod updates.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The iPod just uses a hidden folder called iPod_Control that stores all the MP3s. There's no special "mass storage area" because it's all one big HFS+/FAT32 drive, so anything that cares to look for the folder can scan through it and see all the MP3s. What's more, the hidden iPod database file format is fairly well known at this point, so there's no reason that Microsoft couldn't open the DB file and display all your playlists exactly as the iPod does. Furthermore, it will actually play AAC files - you're correct in saying "not DRMed AAC files from the iTMS), but I'm actually rather impressed they added unencrypted AAC support.
My English teacher once told me that two positives don't make a negative. Two words for her: Yeah, right.
Didja hear that? I think Hell finally froze over! Seriosuly though, I'm amazed. I, for once, completely agree with what this guy's saying. If he's telling the truth, shutting up people in company who are getting greedy about what can be plugged in, awesome. Plain and simple. I wish more companies had people willing to do that. Assuming all this is true (and I always take media with a grain of salt) I'm 100% behind microsoft on this one. Congrats guys, you made the right decision.
Want to find other gamers to play board and role playing game
"Did it ever cross your mind that actually BEING pro-consumer could mean more profit?
Yes, hence my comment "To make people think they are pro-consumer so they buy more of their products".
"
My issue was with your use of the word "think." Perhaps ACTUALLY being pro-consumer (as opposed to making people think it) can mean more profit.
I think not. For one, no-one's mentioned anything about PS3 or Xbox 360 running iTunes or becoming iTMS-compatible, nor about Xbox Live Marketplace selling music or other media, and two, Xbox 360 (and almost certainly PS3) cannot play iTMS-encrypted FairPlay AAC files, only unprotected AAC.
Not gonna happen, I'm afraid.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
You'll note that Linux for the PS2 came in the form of a fairly expensive HDD peripheral - I'd bet the profit from that more than made up for any remaining losses on the PS2 itself.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
i can use my usb thumb drive for a memory card.
I Predict A Riot
1. The technology isn't ready yet for massive, cheap manufacturing.
Toshiba thinks it will be shortly. Originally it was supposed to go in before Christmas (though it has slipped now). Chinese players are supposed to come out soon as well.
2. A very small percentage of the potential market actually cares about HD-DVD.
Now that depends what market you are talking about. Gamers care if the game companies themselves care, which they seem to. If they were complaining about storage issues then it must be with dual-layer storage limitations; otherwise why complain? You are talking about the movie-watching market but that's not where the console is aimed. I'm talking about HD-DVD support strictly from a game making sense.
3. HD-DVD movies will take time to come out.
Again, a non-issue for inclusion because it would be there for the game makers. It's just a side benefit that could help expand the format for movies in that format, but not the main point to having it.
4. Getting out first and stealing Sony's thunder in critical, because releasing at the same time as Sony is just handing them the victory for the next 5 years.
Just like Dreamcast getting in well before the PS2, that sure worked out great... Stealing thunder in the console market is as much about technical chops and impressive new games as launch dates. If 360 games look and feel bit anemic for a while because the developers have to cram stuff in and leave things out, while PS3 developers get to romp in a virtual meadow of boundless storage... then the PS3 launch may well make a much bigger splash than the 360 launch even if the PS3 launch is later.
The funny thing is that Microsoft has reversed the position they enjoyed with the XBox - they may have come out later but it was more powerful, which managed to grow the market pretty well even aganst Sony's best efforts (which are pretty effective). But now Microsoft is coming in, still an underdog and letting the lead player release a more powerful console on top of them. The combination of a broader set of games and a more powerful console (including things like Blu-Ray here in a broad definition of power) is giving Sony an advantage rather than giving Microsoft an edge. They should have waited until after the PS3 launch (or at least until the the same time) releasing with HD-DVD support and a really polished set of games (would have been much more polished by then) and a slightly more powerful platform. But instead Microsoft has decided to see how the consumer market likes paying to be beta-testers.
Another problem Microsoft is going to run into shortly is with cross-platform game makers like EA who will fill something like a Blu-Ray disc - how then do they port that game to the 360? They have to compress the hell out of things and/or reduce content, meaning that just as XBox games today generally enjoy superior visual and auido effects many games in the future will just look and sound better on a PS3 which may well help it pull ahead further.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Because he is loosing on the HD-DVD ...
... Sure Wma is a nice non-DRM format and i'm pretty sure other codecs from Mic... will also be in the future. Just wait until i rules the market again ...
...
This wasn't Gates opinion a few months ago when there was a strong war on how's the winner format.
No that most of people prefer and support Blue-Ray he his against DRM
Let's hope not
By which openness? Support for open standards if requested or the ability to easily incorporate your own stuff into it?
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
"But when words like "pro consumer" show up in interviews with VPs of a major corporation..."
My impression is that they left out the letters B and E in the word "pro".
Don't forget to add in "Everyone gets free Live! Silver. It won't let you do much besides buy track-pack add-ons and download free bugfixes to the games we can't even manage to get right before we press the DVD!"
This is sad. The awful quality of 1.0 PC games is creeping into the console market.
MS is definitely rushing this release. It's release on the last day it could be to make the Xmas shopping season? Be prepared to be underwhelmed.
It's decent hardware I guess. It could maybe be better if they'd wait (HD-DVD?). MS is sure giving up a lot to get out before Xmas. They'd better hope it is worth it.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
You mean that whenever Microsoft is not dominant they want everybody to be inter-operable with their system? No news here. Monopolist extorsion of the clubbing effect chapter #1207 - nothing new please move along. Surprinsingly enough once the 360 will have locked out some 40% market share things might become a little bit different...
All of a sudden we begin seeing MS mouthing off about being open with this that or the other vendor. BFD.
What I imagine is happening is that MS is setting the world up for another round of FUD. Watch this:
MS gets 'open' with a bunch of different equipment makers and announces to the world how open they are. The press will pick it up and report on it.
In the meantime, MS remains as niggardly as ever in its relations with Linux. They expect the FUD in other areas of business to give the appearance that they are open toward Linux too.
The Linux community complains that MS are being closed with the interfaces, file formats, packet formats. MS denies it in the press pointing out how open they are in other areas. The press buys it and dismisses the Linux community as being unable to compete.
JMHO, YMMV
Hey fuckass! Why don't you make like a tree, and get the fuck out of Slashdot!
WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
Ballmer might have some rotten tomatoes for this guy...!
I think you misspelled "high-velocity chairs".
When you look at the state of the world, how can you not become a radical, liberal anarchist?
i mean, 'comon... Micro$oft doesn't manufacture CE devices as compared to their immediate competitor Sony.
IMHO Allard is simply blowing hot air here, not because they can't pull it off or anything, but because he's trying to openly declare M$ is doing it for the consumers "because it's good for them (consumers)". HAH!
Any retard (like me) can see this dick just wanna suckup to "consumers/gamers" by saying: "the Xbox360 will work with many popular CE devices you own, so you have no reason NOT to get an XBox360".
Simple PR tactic, although more subtle than Kutaragi's PR spins. But still alot of hot air, I say. In the end, it's all about Micro$oft's bottom line to push more Xbox360 and make it more marketable.
BuDn3kkID
Just for the sake of repeating what I've been saying all along, this is nothing new. No, I don't mean MS was ever sincerely for open standards, but then they never were sincerely all against them. Corporations do not have ideologies and crusades, they just want to make money, and are _supposed_ to be inconsistent (and arguably even sociopaths) in that pursuit. If what's good for business today or just in a different market segment is different from what was good for business yesterday, a corporation won't stick to an ideology and Right Way like a nerd would. They will do an about face and argue the exact opposite as if it always said that.
And I don't mean only MS. Everyone. We even had sad cases like Sun which flipped between arguing opposites (e.g., between "we love Linux and open standards dearly" and "Proprietary Solaris is teh rule! Linux is teh suck! Die! Die! Die!") within the same day.
And to that end:
- when you're in the lead, you want closed proprietary (and preferrably patented) stuff to keep your customers locked in. You want a penned market segment that you can shear as you see fit. See patented connectors, the unix fragmentation, etc.
- when you're the one fighting uphill, you want open standards and anything that'll let you have a go at everyone else's penned customers
And MS in the console market is finding itself fighting uphill against Sony. (Which, as the conspiracy theory goes, was always MS's target. Nintendo was more like collateral damage.) Guess what they'll want? Right. Open standards and interfaces.
It's not that MS wouldn't like you to be locked in the XBox camp. It's that the priority now is: they don't want you locked in Sony's camp. That's all.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
So Microsoft probably knew there weren't going to be millions of quality drives available in time for Christmas. And waiting until after Christmas means exactly that in terms of sales, free publicity from "hot for christmas" articles, and making their launch that much closer to Sony's. Not to mention that if the launch was set for February instead, I'd expect Sony to move their launch up to February even if it meant fewer launch titles on the PS3. There goes the early-launch benefit.
See I see this as a best case scenario for Microsoft. They launch with a console that has had months to build up strong titles - both have large enough storage to be interesting and by that point some 360 developers might even have made good use of it. Meanwhile Sony has a weak launch and few titles. Sounds pretty good if I'm Microsoft.
Instead the 360 launches with anemic titles and Sony gets to dictate when they enter the market for largest effect. It's a first impression thing.
True enough that there are a lot of differences between this and the Dreamcast launch, I'll not go any further with that analogy other than to say "first is not always best" and leave the exact details up to the situation at hand.
As for developers complaining, don't you think Microsoft spent hundreds of person-hours talking to the devs about their storage needs and weighing the pros and cons?
No, what I think happened is like you said they mandated a launch before Christmas and could not get enough drives in time. Like so many other classic blunders in the computer industry they have let schedule dictate functionality. I am sure they talked to developers about a lot of things and possibly even this aspect, but like I said the largest companies launching on multiple platforms would have in no way desired to have one console with so much more space than the other. What I think made it OK is Microsoft told themselves (just as they have been telling others) that they can always ship with a drive later on... I do believe we'll see a 360 wit either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD at the same time the PS3 comes out. But I still think that will annoy some in the 360 base.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This is just the standard embrace and extend by Microsoft.
Step 1) Allow your system to work with as many other systems as others
Step 2) Add your own propriatry features and encourage other vendors to support them to make the user/developer/whoever experience better
Step 3) Patent these features
Step 4) Profit!!!!
It's the same way that drivers are only developed for windows.. People slowly got used to using windows and vendors slowly stopped making drivers for alternative OSes.
So they're finally coming out and making their own PC?
This is effectively an admission by MS - they need compatibility for the 360 to sell. If they did not have it, there is nothing so compelling about the 360 that would want users to buy it. However users wont feel so bad about buying an expensive paperweight if it did a couple of other things as well and what the hell, if 360 does sell we can always close out those other guys later on. I Dont trust them,
never will.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
As long as the iPod has its mp3's stored in the iPod's mass storage area (in other words, so you can't actually play them through the iPod) and they actually are mp3's, and not DRM'd AAC files from the iTunes Music Store. This may be partially correct. All I'll say that I know for sure about the Xbox 360 is what I saw, though. And, I saw an music being used as a custom soundtrack from an iPod playlist. And, in case you are wondering, I saw this at last week's Digital Life expo, where MS wouldn't let people play with the 360, per say, but did have an hour or so presentation showing how it would link up with the PSP, iPod, HTPC, and showed a few short game demos.
are two different things.
Does anyone else think it's odd that Allard is preaching compatibility right after we learn that the 360 is basically incompatible with the old XBox games without some manner of emulation/jerryriggery? I can plug in an iPod but I can't play Fable?
That total insensitivity and lack of remorse is actually the _key_ factor there, not a case of "bah, that's just insensitivity, not being a psychopath." I'll argue that every single symptom described in the three-factor model of psychopathy is just a manifestation of the complete insensitivity.
Pretty much what that three-factor model boils down to is: someomeone for whom everyone else is just an NPC. They're the only important person in a world of NPCs they can't relate or get emotionally attached to, and which generally don't matter in any form or shape. Same as you neither feel any remorse for doing bad stuff to an NPC (be it manipulating them, or just outright killing them for your own entertainment), nor really think that helping an NPC is your good deed for the day, so it is with psychopaths and people. Once you have that, the whole rest, such as manipulating/deceiving/tormenting people for fun, just comes naturally: those people just don't matter.
Being manipulative is just one of the possible symptoms used to diagnose it, not the crux of the problem, so to speak. Even if I were to take your word that a corporation can't have that symptom, most would still be left with all the other symptoms anyway.
See for example in MS's case the blatant breaking the law, the complete inability to see itself responsible for anything, the exaggerated sense of self-worth (e.g., illustrated by trying to bully the government into silence, ranging from astroturfing to the threats to move to another country: they genuinely thought that the US economy would be crippled without them), the shallow/hollow relationships it had with any other entity... until they could backstab them, the compulsive liar behaviour, and so on, and so forth. I mean, really, every single symptom on the list is there. And it's not just about MS. Most of that is how we _expect_ a corporation to behave.
But let's get back to the manipulation games, since that's the lone symptom we were disaggreeing on. Can't a corporation be compulsively manipulative? Really? I think it can. A corporation can't mesmerize as many people, yes, but it can play the same kinds of games anyway. Ranging from playing with their own employees, to befriend-and-backstab games with other companies, to screwing with the investors, to lying to the customers.
MS for example has become pretty much a synonim with FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) for example. That's one way to manipulate people. (And again, it's not a MS-only activity. The term originally was used about IBM.) Or it has pretty much made mainstream the phenomenon of vapourware: hyping a supposedly perfect and revolutionary future product for years as if it'll be released in no time, to keep you from buying the competitor's products that are available right here and now. Yep, that's another manipulation game. The astro-turfing campaign during the DOJ trial? Yep, another manipulation game. Etc.
They can and _do_ manipulate people and each-other all the time. So, dunno, it seems to me like they do have that symptom too. Maybe in somewhat different forms, and maybe to a somewhat different extent, but they do have it.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
If MS truly was pro-consumer with the 360 they'd have true backwards compatability and support moving save games from the original xbox to the 360. What a bunch of marketing BS.
no sleepy!
This is not about open standards. This is classic double-speak, in the Orwellian tradition. This is saying "we are opening up the Xbox 360" when what they are *really* saying is "we have the Xbox 360 and we would like all other companies to open their products up to it." He's painting MS as the good guy and backhandedly saying it's everybody else's fault if they don't want to make products that conform to MS's vision.
Not quite. The XB360 already works with competitors products. He just doesn't want third parties to deliberately *close* their products to XB360 interop. That seems fair.
Slashdot: come for the pedantry, stay for the condescension.
...all I got was this lousy T-shirt.
Could be a classic!
Microsoft has many other things that have been percolating for years on end in the R&D center, than never see the light of day. We do see MCE but is it really all that special given that it only really progressed out after TiVO struck it big with consumer mindshare? Where was MCE at before TiVO?
Apple is waiting for a half-assed media hub to come out that they can then fix all the problems with, refine, and make a killing. That is thier way. At least when they steal concepts they make things better than the original for the users. The only problem is that all the media centers out today are not even quarter-assed, much less half. So Apple waits until the market is ready... but they are still probably percolating stuff in the background, so as to be ready when the time is really right.
BTW, Steve Jobs is correct that (most) people do not want to watch TV on the PC - thus the whole idea of the media hub that lets you watch TV on a larger screen in the living room. It would appear Microsoft agrees generally or else they would not be making the MCE software so TV firendly.
He's also right that computers do not belong there. Consider the TiVO - not really a computer at all, and it has been pretty successful (at least in terms of mindshare). That's the kind of thing to build on, not push a glorified PC into the living room for the masses. Which is also the lines Microsoft is thinking along.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And I should believe you because...? Let me guess, you did a "presentation" to MS Research group, so now you know everything happening in that group.
If you are making a general statement that most of the things people work on in a typical research center, yes, that is true. So what's your point?
Tivo is great. I like Tivo, but Tivo is just a PVR. It doesn't store all of my music, my photos, DVD's, and let me surf the Internet on a big screen. Which is what a REAL digital hub should do.
Steve Jobs is correct that (most) people do not want to watch TV on the PC - thus the whole idea of the media hub that lets you watch TV on a larger screen in the living room. It would appear Microsoft agrees generally or else they would not be making the MCE software so TV firendly.
Um... sorry to break it to ya. MCE IS A PC!!! What? if I run my desktop through my Plasma screen (which has DVI input), it is no longer a desktop, but becomes a TV? Even when I use Word on it? Wow, who would have thought???
Gates was right and Jobs was wrong. Everything is going digital. Once all of the TV programs become digital, it becomes just another type of media that PC can deliver. Look at how popular listening to music on portable device is (and they are just a specialized computers) once digital music format became popular. It is only a matter of time before TV goes the same way and PC devices like MCE (PS3 can fit the bill too) will become the entertainment center for home.
And I should believe you because...? Let me guess, you did a "presentation" to MS Research group, so now you know everything happening in that group.
...
No, I have ntohing to do with Microsoft R&D - I actually do real work.
Now let us group two statements you have made:
Tivo is great. I like Tivo, but Tivo is just a PVR. It doesn't store all of my music, my photos, DVD's, and let me surf the Internet on a big screen. Which is what a REAL digital hub should do.
Um... sorry to break it to ya. MCE IS A PC!!! What? if I run my desktop through my Plasma screen (which has DVI input), it is no longer a desktop, but becomes a TV? Even when I use Word on it? Wow, who would have thought???
Yes, the TiVO is not a PC. And MCE is a PC. You got that part right. But have you noticed that TiVO is hugley popular while MCE is simply not?
Thus what I said holds true, only a small minorty of the population want to run Word on the TV. What everyone else wants (including lots of very technically oriented people such as myself) is a consumer device to treat digital video as a first-class citizen alongside DVD and TV. As I said your solution works for you and mine works for me, a point I have repeated a number of times now and something you are unable to grasp. Why is a mystery to those still reading.
Gates was right and Jobs was wrong. Everything is going digital.
How did Jobs ever say anything is NOT going digital? Oddly it seems both are saying the exact same thing, another point made in my previous post that seems to have eluded you.
Look at how popular listening to music on portable device is (and they are just a specialized computers)
Then so is a toaster or a fridge a computer. They use computing devices but I'm sorry t say the accepted definition of "computer" is a general-purpose computing device. The iPod (did you remember that was an Apple product before claiming Jobs thinks things are not going digital?) is in fact a specialized digital music player, not a computer as much as you wish it would be so to prop up your rapidly eroding argument.
It is only a matter of time before TV goes the same way and PC devices like MCE (PS3 can fit the bill too) will become the entertainment center for home.
So what you are really saying here, even without knowing it, is that TV will go the same way as music - true enough... but that means that we'll see an ITMS for TV video (hey look already occured!) and that Apple will come in with a device to grab a huge majorty of the home media hub player, just as they did with the iPod. Microsoft will once again become a non-entity, or rather become even more of one since they are dwarfed by TiVO even now.
So the future is occuring in front of us, you're just unwilling to realize Apple is driving it. Enjoy your antique media hub.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Please, stop. With every post you are exposing how little you know. You should actually do some research before you post. Little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
Now that's odd, I was going to type the same thing about you but decided to be polite and resist. Guess there's no need.
Tivo IS a PC!!! It has a Linux OS and can be modified into do a lot more than just PVR. Which is exactly what Tivo IS DOING as they are adding mods that lets you store music and video on your Tivo. When Tivo does music, dvd, picture management as well as MCE (probably another year or two), I may even switch.
To a user a TiVO is not a PC. It is closer to a PC to be sure, it does run Linux but to a user they do not use a TV in the same way they do a PC.
As a for instance, you prclaimed how proud you were you could run Word on your TV with MCE. Can you run OpenOffice using the default TiVO?
You are simply confused about what is really a computer. At least in terms of how technical people (like computer programmers) think of them. I understand you are probably not a programmer but that's how things are.
Again, a very dim-witted view of the technology. All of these devices have CPU, storage (hard-drive or flash), Display, and Input. They have specialized software that hides its full capabilities, but you can mod them (do you even read Slashdot?). People were putting photos on to modded iPods long before Video iPods came out.
No, what is this "Slashdot" you speak of. Do you know where you are? All of those things you mention have nothing to do with computers, except in your warped mental modelof them. Go up to ten people with iPods and tell them they are really computers and see what they say. To users the iPod is not a computer. That is in fact why they are popular.
Is your car a computer? It also has chips.
No, let's state the fact. You are not smart enough to work at ANY R&D houses. Even at the famed Xerox R&D center, 90% of the stuff they worked on never saw the light of day. That is how research works. But you probably have no clue as you are not obviously not smart enough to do research work.
Keep pushing those button, cube boy. And again, doing a "presentation" does not give you ANY insight into that organization. Man, that was one of the FUNNIEST thing I have read in awhile.
Oh, insulting my intelligence. How Witty! My days of not respecting what you have to say certainly have come to a middle.
Also, a challenge for you - please find anywhere I have mentioned anything about doing a "presentation". I have not and frankly it's pretty wierd you keep going back to that point. Perhaps you should read things more carefully and figure out who was really doing a presentation.
It hardly matters as in five years when you are enjoying your Apple video box you'll realize the truth of things regardless of what you think now. Even if the Apple video box is steam driven because "Jobs doesn't think things are going digital". Please give us more of your original inight along those lines.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley