Mobile Fuel Cells Soon?

Mark Leaman writes "Motorola has made a strategic investment in Vancouver based, micro fuel cell developer Tekion with a view to the inevitable rise of the fuel cell as a power source for mobile products. Tekion is creating a new "personal power source", known as the Formira Power Pack, that will fit inside mobile products and enable consumers to stay connected for as long as needed. "

Comments

more power!

[alexandreracine]

-Scotty, we need more power!
-I can't captain! Where at maximum!

Looking forward to

[Anonymous Coward]

true mobility. Connected and powered 24/7, anywhere.

Re:Looking forward to

[AKAImBatman]

true mobility. Connected and powered 24/7, anywhere.

Would be nice wouldn't it? Unfortunatly, there are exactly three devices that can make this happen:

1) A portable solar generator and battery. This only works as long as the generator is able to produce more than ample power to cover periods where sunlight is unavailable and the panels are always facing the sun. e.g. The roof of a car. Plus you still have to charge devices in it.

2) Beaming power to devices. This is actually related to solar power as it reqires that a laser or maser hold a targetting lock on your device's power converter. Besides how tricky this is to implement, it's also dangerous to be broadcasting a number of lased transmissions in the multi-watt range.

3) Harnessing the radiation from radioisotopes. This is the most promising option as there are several types of radioisotope that are easy to contain, and no more dangerous than today's battery chemicals. This option could easily provide power in the 1-50 watt range, 24x7 for 10-30 years. The drawbacks to this method are a) radioisotopes are too expensive, b) the public has an irrational fear of anything "nukular", and c) the radioisotopes must be treated as hazardous waste (just like batteries) and disposed of properly.

I fully expect that option 3 will be embraced by future space explorers. It just wouldn't do to have equipment that can't survive long spans of time away from a charging station.

Re:Looking forward to

[tradiuz]

I think #3 is coming down the pipe soon, but like you said, 90% of the population is afraid of anything related to radiation, due to events such as Chernobyl, Hiroshima, and the like. What they dont realize is that they'll get more testical shrinking / brain damaging radiation from the cell phone signal itself than from the properly sheilded radio isotope battery.

Re:Looking forward to

[radl33t]

Option 3 is embraced by current space explorers!
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/tmsb/stirling/doc/stir l_radisotope.html

Re:Looking forward to

[AKAImBatman]

Indeed. However, I was referring to the use of small batteries in devices that never die, which is something that we don't have today. All the current RTGs/SRGs are big monsters that act as a small power plant for a craft or scientific equipment. Russia used to use the things to power Lighthouses indefinitely.

So far no one has actually brought a miniturized version to market, though. :-)

Re:Looking forward to

[skarphace]

true mobility. Connected and powered 24/7, anywhere.

I'd rather not have 24/7 power and connectivity if it meant I had to have this conversation:

Bob: Did you pee your pants?
Me: No, it's just my cell phone leaking.
Bob: Oh...

Re:Looking forward to

[macdaddy357]

In the future, Bush will ride a Segway powered by fuel cells. Will he still fall off?

It's about time

[Donniedarkness]

Honestly, it's about time that we got a new type of power source for mobile products (I'm thinking Cell Phones in particular). Honestly, after I've walked around with my phone for the whole day, I've got 1.5 hours talk time, max. My only questions are: When are we going to start seeing these, and how much is this going to add to the price of a phone?

Re:It's about time

[Trigun]

Yeah, but now you'll have to buy thirty different fuel cells for all of your gadgets.
Make portable mains power. I'd have no problem carrying that around, and it would make a great joy-buzzer.

Re:It's about time

[jolyonr]

Honestly, if 1.5hrs talk time on a cellphone is too little for you, then you made a poor choice when deciding which phone to get (ie the features vs battery life dilemna). I keep my old feature-free Nokia 6310i for when I just need a phone, and my nice shiny new 6680 for when I want to pose with a fun gadget.

We've already had batteries exploding in Nokia phones, can you imagine it with fuel cells - "Oh, the Humanity!".

Jolyon

Re:It's about time

[Soruk]

I have a system based on an auxiliary battery and an inverter, which lives in my car, and can charge when on the move. 240V AC, wherever I want it :)

Re:It's about time

[entirety]

Honestly, the more you say Honestly the more you sound like a liar. :-)

Am I not a liar?

Re:It's about time

[slashname3]

But when will they have little tiny gas pumps to refuel your cell phone? And how much is that going to cost per milli-liter?

Will this bring back waiting lines at the fuel cell pumps? "Hey! I have an important call, hurry up!"

Re:It's about time

[plover]

While your comment is a clever joke, it may not be far off the mark.

I am concerned about the standardization of the "refueling" functionality. If every fuel cell maker out there uses different valves, nozzles, ports, connectors, whatever for putting fuel in and removing the wastewater, we will jump directly into a confusing nightmare of incompatible plumbing. "Oh, yeah, my cell phone takes a 0.7mm bayonet fuelling nozzle, but my PDA takes a 0.05 inch tapered friction connector." So you still carry four little fuel tanks with you to power your cell phone, PDA, iPod and laptop.

A different question is what airline is going to let people take devices powered by flammable liquids on board, when they're already disallowing butane lighters?

Re:It's about time

[ncc74656]

Honestly, it's about time that we got a new type of power source for mobile products (I'm thinking Cell Phones in particular). Honestly, after I've walked around with my phone for the whole day, I've got 1.5 hours talk time, max.

What kind of ancient phone are you using that gets only 90 minutes of talk time? My first phone (an analog model from Motorola that I bought back in '96 or '97) did better than that.

Re:It's about time

[zogger]

You could have longer talk time, but "the public" insists on smaller phones/laptops whatever every year. If consumers would be content with the size phones were 5 years ago, not giant bagphones like in the olden daze, just what size was common back 5 years ago, with smaller and better electronics but bigger batteries, they would last much longer, even with todays battery technology and more powerful features. When you shrink *both* the battery and the electronics, it's like, what do you (anyone you I mean, joe consumer) expect? Lithium ion tech is pretty spiffy now, make it big enough, it'll last all day long easy. And it doesn't have to be ridiculous large, but then again, phones are getting ultra ridiculous small. I know I can't use the teeny phones, can't see the screen easily nor use the buttons. My "choice" is extremely expensive larger PDA like phones with reasonably sized screens and buttons and bateries, or teensy tiny phones that are barely useable. Older phones with good enough screens you can't get batts for hardly anymore, plus the providers won't activate them if they don't have that location feature in them for e911 stuff. Just went through that at the cell store. My older phone they refuse to activate now, even though it works perfectly fine and they used to provide service for it. Had to buy a cheaper smaller one. Nuts...grumble... this is verizon by the way, they have the best coverage and cheapest rates around here, but it could be any of them really.

What I would like to see is standaridzation WITH the batteries themselves. Propietary sizes and configs are a pure ripoff, you go to replace the battery it costs 2/3rds what the entire device costs new. I just happen to get a new phone two months ago, it cost IIRC around 65$. I asked what a replacement batt was-50$.

Ripoff. We have standard sized batts, AAA, AA, C, D etc but they just won't use them, has to be different, force you more or less to keep upgrading the entire phone. I have HAM portable transcievers that run multiple watts output, they run fine on regular config batteries. What are cell phones, half a watt or something? I just got some GMRS/FRS talkies, they just use normal rechargeable AAs, no need for some weird "package" battery pack that costs ten times would it should.

heh /geezer tightwad rant

Re:It's about time

[Cat_Byte]

I had one of those first generation Nextel 2 way radio phones and it had horrible battery life. It would last 2 days if you didn't use it but lucky to make it til 5:00 at work if it rang a few times.

My Nokia 6600 is one of those gadget packed phones and I only have to charge it about once every 2 days. Funny thing is the battery is about 1/10 the size of that old Nextel/Motorola phone.

Re:It's about time

[Donniedarkness]

Notice the "After carrying it around all day". It's the Samsung SCH-A670... actually a pretty decent little phone. Also, I do tend to send quite a few text messages during the day...

Great...

[altoz]

Now there's no excuse for me to not pick up a call.

Re:Great...

[n0dalus]

Now there's no excuse for me to not pick up a call.

Maybe if your phone was running Windows? Hmmm...

Re:Great...

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

That depends... "Well I was smoking my sigarette while refilling my cellphone and then I woke up in the ambulance. "

Re:Great...

[Soybean47]

Well, you may have lost one excuse for not answering the phone, but you just need to get more creative.. First of all, if you do answer, realize that this won't improve reception. You can still always pull the "Oh, I'm going through a tunnel..." "...you're breaking up... what was that?..." Done!

There are a number of other options too. None are quite as good as the battery one, but you could try:
1) I forgot to turn the ringer back on after ___________ (e.g. movie, meeting)
2) I was _______ (somewhere loud) and didn't hear it ring.
3) In the bathroom. No reasonable person answers their phone in the bathroom. If you're going to use this one, start drinking more water. It'll make it more plausible that you're always in the bathroom, and it's good for you!

I'm sure you can come up with some on your own.

Re:Great...

[cbreaker]

How do you know when someone's been reading too much Slashdot?

When they spell it SIGarette instead of cigarette.

Re:Great...

[trewornan]

No reasonable person answers their phone in the bathroom

I reckon I'm pretty reasonable. Why wouldn't you answer the phone . . . just shuffle forward a bit to avoid making a splash.

As long as needed?

[LehiNephi]

will . . . enable consumers to stay connected for as long as needed.

The problem is this: battery life is never long enough. This is true for three reasons. First, as battery life improves, consumers come to expect more. Second, electronics manufacturers will see the marketing opportunity in "we have the smallest $gadget on the market", and will put in the smallest acceptable battery. Third, as we have seen with computers, manufacturers will continue to pack (some useful, many not) features, sapping that additional power.

Granted, fuel cells have considerable energy-density advantages over current chemical cells, but it will never be enough until we have devices that will *never* need a recharge, battery replacement, or refill.

Re:As long as needed?

[NardofDoom]

Yup. All we need are some RTGs. What do you mean I'll get cancer?

Re:As long as needed?

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Right, the day the fusion-reactor-on-a-chip is available, they'll sell cellphones with build in 50MW laser cannon.

Re:As long as needed?

[AKAImBatman]

All we need are some RTGs.

Precisely. Though I'm still holding out for SRGs and other more efficient heat engines.

What do you mean I'll get cancer?

What d'ya mean, what d'ya mean? You could shield Alpha radiation with a sheet of paper, and Beta radiation with a bit of foil. You'd get more radiation exposure from the Earth's crust than you would a hundred Plutonium-powered cell phones.

Re:As long as needed?

[timeOday]

It's news because it's Motorola, not some self-styled inventor. If Motorola buys in it's likely this will actually happen sometime in the next few years.

As for "as long as needed," it could work. If they put a tiny backup battery in there so you could switch fuel cartriges without disconnecting your call, you could go on forever, without a large investment in expensive batteries.

Re:As long as needed?

[hador_nyc]

Granted, fuel cells have considerable energy-density advantages over current chemical cells, but it will never be enough until we have devices that will *never* need a recharge, battery replacement, or refill.

"Bart, we obey the laws of physics in this house!"

Re:As long as needed?

[Ismilar]

Who is saying that the device needs to be turned off to get a refill? Maybe these things *can* stay connected for as long as needed (as long as you carry around a large jug of fuel and have access to more before the jug runs out).

Re:As long as needed?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Never worry about locking yourself out of your house again!"

Re:As long as needed?

[Anonymous Monkey]

Great! Now we need is an unlimited supply of popcorn. "What do you think a phase conjugate tracking system is for, Kent?"

Re:As long as needed?

[madleo]

You will only have to hold your cell phone, point it to the sky and go straight to the moon! And you may eventually talk to a friend with it too!

Re:As long as needed?

[Surt]

I don't think that's true. Consider that most people sleep at night, for at least 5 hours on average. Most of us sleep in a place with an electrical outlet. If your device carries a 20 hour charge and can be recharged in 4 hours or less, and a standard ac-plug is folded into the device, will consumers really care that much that they still have to remember to plug in their device before they go to sleep? And with all the attention that processor and device manufacturers are putting on power consumption now, I expect power consumption to drop in next generation devices rather than rise, in spite of better features.

Re:As long as needed?

[cybpunks3]

It's not the features that take up the power. It's using all the features at once. If you have a phone that plays MP3s, when you aren't playing MP3s, it shouldn't have to draw any more power than a phone that can't play MP3s. It's all in the power management. If you decide to use all the features at once (assuming the device multitasks well enough for it) then yes, it will drain the battery. Otherwise the architecture should be smart enough to step down the power and disable devices not in use. I'm not convinced that portable devices do this effectively.

Re:As long as needed?

[greywar]

You don't camp much do you? Or travel internationally in economy class. 16 hours airborne. Can't sleep gremlins will eat airplane! Or simply arrive somewhere feeling dead, wanting to sleep-not spend 15 minutes yarding all the power strips out of your luggage to charge everything. You've never made REALLY long sleep in the car road trips. Or arrive in a foriegn country, and find out that the one power adapter you need is missing from your adapter kit. Or have 4 things needing to be recharged, and only one adapter. Shared a room with someone, 200 cockroaches, and had only 2 plugins-one each assuming the cockroaches don't want it. And thats a big assumpton in some places *shudder* used a laptop for more then the 5 hours that your 2 batteries lasted etc etc etc. I for one would love more power.

Re:As long as needed?

[Surt]

I think you misread my post. Of course we want more power. Certainly the 5 hours with your laptop is not enough. The question is, when you are getting 20 hours on one charged battery on your laptop, will you still be begging for more, or will that be roughly enough?

I think this will solve all but one of your conditions:

16 hours airborne: 20 hours battery time. Solved. Plus more and more airplanes have outlets now.
power strips / hotel: most decent hotels are offering more outlets these days, if you don't have the money for a decent hotel (say $50 per night) then it isn't likely you have too many of these devices with you to worry about. Solved.
car road trips: i've driven cross country 3 times in the last 5 years. I bought a $20 plug for my car. If you spend more time than that in your car you'd be well advised to make that investment. Solved.
Foreign country. You're screwed. Buy an adapter at the nearest airport though.
Sharing a room / 200 cockroaches. Indicates you're not spending enough on your hotel compared to your devices. Same as above.

Re:As long as needed?

[anotherzeb]

I'd have to get a friend for that. Will I be able to talk to strangers instead?

Re:As long as needed?

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Ofcourse, they even have a special book for that. Something called a "phonebook" or something. It's a very large list of strangers all willing to talk to you.

Water?

[dascandy]

Don't those fuel cells (which iirc commonly work on hydrogen and oxygen) produce water? So you're going to be walking around with a wet spot in your pants...

Is that your phone or are you happy to see me?

Re:Water?

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

They'll probably use ethanol or simular simple alcohol as it's much easier to handle. The wet spot might be embarrising, but getting CO2 (or CO or whatever. I'm not going to look up the exact chemical reaction, as someone would probably point out I made a mistake in it and make me look bad. This way I just look lazy.) poisening on a bus full of cellphone users would be worse.

Ofcourse I'm joking. Most likely the amount released by each phone would be very small compared to what comes out of a human.

Re:Water?

[qray]

Ofcourse I'm joking. Most likely the amount released by each phone would be very small compared to what comes out of a human.

I'm sure it will be a target for the cause of global warming. Yeah, it's small, but it's adding to the overall green house gasses (assuming your guess of CO2 is right) and that small amount might be just enough to push us over the edge.
--
Q

Re:Water?

[Red Flayer]

If you're referring to the wet spot, I think the question would be:

"Is that your phone or were you happy to see me?"

Re:Water?

[IAmTheDave]

Although this raises the question of having to refuel your phone - I much prefer to drop it onto its base station than having to refill my phone's battery like a Zippo lighter. Or am I missing something?

Re:Water?

[GigG]

Don't those fuel cells (which iirc commonly work on hydrogen and oxygen) produce water? So you're going to be walking around with a wet spot in your pants...

Oh come on, gadgets have been making slashdoters wet since... well before they were slashdoters.

Re:Water?

[visgoth]

If the ethanol comes from say, fermented corn or potatos, the CO2 would already have been "in the loop" so to speak. Its the stuff we're pumping and digging up out of the ground that's adding to our CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

Re:Water?

[whitehatlurker]

They'll probably use ethanol

Apparently it uses Formic acid. "Things" would get rather itchy if the battery were to leak ;-)

Of course it begs the question on how the formic acid is produced, and whether it is a "green" process or not.

Re:Water?

[qray]

Its the stuff we're pumping and digging up out of the ground that's adding to our CO2 levels in the atmosphere.

But isn't that stuff we pump and dig out of the ground just plant/animal material made up of CO2 that those, once living, things obtained from the atmosphere when they were alive?
--
Q

Re:Water?

[cybpunks3]

A refill is a lot faster than charging a battery. Imagine going on a camping trip with a backpack full of refills and having a week's worth of charge available. Sure, if your device has removable batteries you could take a lot of batteries with you but that would be expensive and a lot heavier.

Re:Water?

[Naffer]

Carbon in the form of petrochemicals that has been under the ground for several million years is no longer part of the carbon cycle. Reintroducing it to the atmosphere has serious dangers associated with it.

Re:Water?

[IAmTheDave]

touche!

As long as needed?

[tgv]

Whoever wrote "as long as needed" probably has some interest in the company, since that's clear marketing speak. Another example of Slashvertising? Or just an attempt to raise the stock price?

Capacity is nice, but recharge speed is nicer

[Bushcat]

I'd like to think that one benefit of a fuel cell is that it can be recharged more rapidly. Given the choice between an 8-hour traditional battery that needs me to be tethered while it's charged, and a fuel cell with a 2-hour life that can be recharged in 2 minutes from a bottle, I'll go for the fuel cell. For most people, it's not battery life that's the problem, it's recharge time.

Re:Capacity is nice, but recharge speed is nicer

[johnty]

Yes higher recharge speed is nice... but frankly, at this point, I'd rather see them release an actual product. I am still quite happy with my NiMH charger that takes about 14 hours to charge my camera batteries, because once charged they last for weeks of moderate use.

of course there are applications where fast recharging times are required, but consider how long they'be been talking about "mobile fuel cells coming soon", i'd like to see a product being released. its ok if it takes a day to charge, if i could run a cellphone for a month on it, for example. they can improve the recharging times later.

Re:Capacity is nice, but recharge speed is nicer

[aqfire]

Of course, you could always buy a second battery... personally, I'm looking forward to fuel cells because as soon as there's an alternative to rechargeable batteries, their prices will go down!

From Ants to Apps

[digitaldc]

Our technology uses Formira(TM) as a fuel (as opposed to methanol which is used by most other micro fuel cell developers). Formira(TM) is purified and modified formic acid. Formic acid is abundant in nature and its name was derived from the scientific name for the red ant, Formica Rufa, which produces it in large quantities. The high power capability and simple chemistry of Formira(TM) fuel cells allow us to build a product that is less complex than methanol systems and actually fits within portable devices.

It is interesting that a fuel cell that is very technologically advanced uses formic acid, a chemical produced by one of the smallest of animals, the ant. How many other innovations can be derived from studying the chemical processes in nature?
Nowhere on the Tekion site does it say how long the cell lasts, but from the chart shown here: http://www.tekion.com/business/index.htm you can derive that it will be at least twice as long as a conventional Li Ion battery. Excellent work!

Re:From Ants to Apps

[ScentCone]

I'm a little torn on which I'd rather have break open and spill into/onto my clothes and skin: something flammable which will evaporate pretty quickly, or something that will sting like hell and give you a nice chemical burn. Perhaps some chemists can comment?

Re:From Ants to Apps

[$RANDOMLUSER]

The formic acid battery, when ruptured, is marginally less toxic than the matter-anitmatter battery.

Re:From Ants to Apps

[miceliux]

Produced by the ant, patented by the man

Re:From Ants to Apps

[jacksonj04]

Formic acid is not your friend.

Re:From Ants to Apps

[Xugumad]

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/FO/formic_acid.html gives a good guide to formic acid safety. Highlights include "Corrosive, causes severe burns. Harmful by inhalation, ingestion and through skin absorption. Readily absorbed through skin. Very destructive of mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract, eyes and skin. Severe eye irritant. Inhalation may be fatal." (emphasis theirs).

I'm thinking I'll go with the flammable myself..

Re:From Ants to Apps

[jerde]

Meh. The contents of your typical well-sealed battery, rechargeable or not, aren't very nice to have spilled either.

Granted, this means you won't be refilling from a gallon jug -- you'll be locked in to some form of replaceable, well-sealed cartridges.

OTOH it WILL take a bit of time for their safety to be proven and accepted. Will they let you take these things on a plane, for instance?

(Even if refil cartridges are safe in normal use, could they be willfully forced open and used as some sort of weapon? I wouldn't want formic acid fumes on a crowded plane or bus.)

Or maybe it's all moot? What if they figured out how to formulate it with some sort of chemical buffer? Something in the catalist would enable the acidic protons to be freed, but the overall ph of the "fuel" would be neutral and harmless?

Regardless, you can bet in todays litigous society that they will have it figured out before this ever makes it into the hands of a consumer.

  - Peter

Re:From Ants to Apps

[ScentCone]

Granted, this means you won't be refilling from a gallon jug -- you'll be locked in to some form of replaceable, well-sealed cartridges.

And I think this is my point. We're talking about a supposedly convenient new thing... but it only works if you have access to carefully sealed, probably proprietary injectors of nastiness. A pocketful of Li-ion batteries would probably be just as easy to maintain, and still get you that long usage. Just develop some nice little solar handkerchief to unfold and charge them, or something. But I don't find much liberty in having to depend on a source of formic acid - however stabilized - for my phone to work. It's just like printer ink.

Re:From Ants to Apps

[slashname3]

So this means that if I attach that old ant farm to my cell phone I won't have to ever recharge my cell phone? Cool!

Now the real question is will I be able to get this through security at the airport and on to the airplane?

Re:From Ants to Apps

[slashname3]

So now they can market a fuel cell cell phone with built in formic acid dispenser that is even more effective than a mace dispenser.

Just don't hit the wrong button when dialing and discharge it into your own face!

Re:From Ants to Apps

[Senobyzal]

But how many ants have to be in the battery for you to get a good charge? Will "antpower" become the new "horsepower" as a new term for the potential energy of small devices?

"Yeah, like my new PDA? Got 300 Ants in there."

Re:From Ants to Apps

[EvilSS]

Considering you can no longer take lighters with any type of fuel onboard, I imagine this is going to be an issue, at least at first.

Re:From Ants to Apps

[drinkypoo]

Ant: "I, for one, welcome our ant-harvesting human overlords..."

Re:From Ants to Apps

[rabtech]

Lithium Ion batteries make really good bombs; they tend to explode if not handled, charged, and discharged very specifically. That's why all consumer Li-ion batteries have built-in circuit breakers, are encased in strong plastic, have chargers with the appropriate computer circuitry to monitor the status of the battery and deliver the proper charge, and have proper discharge circuitry built into the device.

If you want to have some fun take a discharged Li-ion battery, hook it up to an 18v transformer, then stand way back and turn the sucker on. It shouldn't take too long for it to explode and/or catch fire.

So FYI: I don't think the hazards of fuel cells are anything new compared to carrying Li-ion batteries in your pocket.

Re:From Ants to Apps

[willardx]

I for one welcome our new insect overlords!

Re:From Ants to Apps

[smoker2]

It al depends how they sell it really. People buy some scary stuff.

there is a tv advertisement in the uk at the moment, where the actress proudly proclaims that this new anti-aging cream works because it contains glycolic acid. I worked with glycolic acid for around 7 years, and at temperatures of around 80 degrees, the fumes give you brain damage. What are the long term effects of rubbing it in to your skin ? But I guess you'll look young when they bury you. I'm waiting for lead to make a comeback, or mercury. Nothings too good for women these days, when it comes to "beauty". Hell, its even ok to piss yourself in public these days, because they make underwear especially for the purpose. Reminds me of Turtlehead Briefs ...

Re:From Ants to Apps

[Cat_Byte]

LOL...+2 insightful for a comment on an anti-matter battery? Now THAT'S funny!

Re:From Ants to Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Inhalation can be fatal? Sounds almost as bad as dihydrogen monoxide!

Re:From Ants to Apps

[$RANDOMLUSER]

I know (hangs head). It was only +1 though /sheepish

more detail, please

[HawkinsD]

Boy, that's a light press release. The main question is unanswered: what does it use for fuel? Gin? Composted elderberries? It says "non-flmmable." Does that mean that the fuel cell itself won't catch fire while you're using it? Does it require a handy liquid-hydrogen refill tank?

And what the HELL is the deal with the light-blue on white typeface?

Re:more detail, please

[tradiuz]

Our technology uses Formira(TM) as a fuel (as opposed to methanol which is used by most other micro fuel cell developers). Formira(TM) is purified and modified formic acid. Formic acid is abundant in nature and its name was derived from the scientific name for the red ant, Formica Rufa, which produces it in large quantities. The high power capability and simple chemistry of Formira(TM) fuel cells allow us to build a product that is less complex than methanol systems and actually fits within portable devices. From TFA.

Re:more detail, please

[Surt]

Ah, so we'll all be carrying around an ant farm for refueling our devices, cool!

This changes the way we live

[saskboy]

Imagine a cell phone that doesn't need recharging. I'm sure that rescuers at a hurricane scene would have killed for an emergency transmitter like that. Even if something like this isn't as portable as modern flip phones, it could still mean the difference between communicating, and not being able to when electricity from the wall isn't available.

A golden age of energy accessibility may be at hand, and could open up parts of the third world to modern technology too, if it has a readiliy available power source in those places.

Re:This changes the way we live

[ScentCone]

Even if something like this isn't as portable as modern flip phones, it could still mean the difference between communicating, and not being able to when electricity from the wall

You just need a big supply of "highly purified and modified formic acid" and off you go! This sounds suspiciously like inkjet cartridges to me.

Re:This changes the way we live

[Anonymous Coward]

"I'm sure that rescuers at a hurricane scene would have killed for an emergency transmitter like that."

does not compute

Re:This changes the way we live

[codehoser]

"I'm sure that rescuers at a hurricane scene would have killed for an emergency transmitter like that."

Great. Now in addition to terrorists, global warming and sick birds, I'll need to be afraid of rescuers.

Re:This changes the way we live

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds a lot like a bunch of ants to me.
I could live with having to hunt, and destroy, several hundreds of ants to power my cellphone.

Re:This changes the way we live

[jonnythan]

Last time I spilled liquid ink all over my hands trying to refill a cartridge, I didn't die.

WOW

[Ragein]

I only just realised you created /. RESPECT THANKS

Dispose of it

[Barkley44]

Will there be some sort of recycling program when they are used up? Or is this another use and toss?

Does anyone else find it odd...

[cschmidt]

that cars are moving toward batteries and electronics are moving toward fuel?

Re:Does anyone else find it odd...

[romka1]

cars are moving toward fuel cells as well they can deliver more power for a longer time

Power to the Future

[Doc Ruby]

In the future, Americans will never leave our cars. At first we'll need whole cars to carry the 5+KW power packs, a charging base station on wheels. Later the cockpit will detatch into a Rascal, like Commander Pike or Jabba the Hut (depending on whether we live on the Coasts or inland), docking in our homes, offices and shopping malls. Eventually they will shrink to truly portable exoskeletons under our recyclable paperlastic suits (with little hoops floating at the cuffs).

Re:Power to the Future

[SABME]

another prediction: medical technology will not be able to keep up with the variety of health problems created when people spend all their time sitting in a powered sofa.

Re:Power to the Future

[jafiwam]

I, for one, welcome our new Mecha Shan overlords.

Obligatory Dark Helmet quote

[Junior J. Junior III]

Dark Helmet: When will then be now?

Col. Sanders: Soon.

Re:Vancouver. BC or WA?

[baomike]

It is not off topic.
You are the ones who didn't tell us where the company is.
British California or Washington.

A Revolution in the Making...

[TheZorch]

We're looking at a major revolution in the electronics industry as we know it. Fuel Cell technology has the potential to change everything in guards to mobile electronics. Whether its PDAs, cellphones, PDA phones, handheld game systesm, GPS receivers, walkietalkies, or whatever the introduction of Fuel Cells as an alternative to standard batteries will be the catalyst which will cause a massive increase in the usage of these devices. This is a technolgy that we've been needing for a long time. Battery technology has reached its limits, and the time is right for a replacement. Imagine never running out of power for your PSP or cellphone because you can recharge its Fuel Cell power pack from a small hydrogen bottle no bigger than a CO2 cartridge used in pellet guns. You'll also see more electronic transportation such as electric scooters that run off fuel cells rather than bulky batteries. It would also be a revolution for the handicapped who must reply on battery powered mobility devices to get around.

Re:Vancouver. BC or WA?

[natedog44]

Did you just say "British CALIFORNIA"??... :|

I believe British Columbia is the word you're looking for.

And to answer your question, Tekion is located in BC.

Oh wonderful!

[Catmeat]

The fuel cell reactant will come in little cartridges that will use propriatory interfaces. These will be thoroughly patiented to keep 3rd party manufacturers away from the party. They'll use cartridges that stop working after a certain date or when there is still some reactant left. Chances are that use of another manufacturers cartridge will automatically void the warrenty on your phone or laptop.

Soon, methanol or formic acid (Formira, or whatever the hell they call it) which were previously cheap industrial chemicals will join printer ink as one of the most expensive liquids in the world

Whatever the source, I want standard sizes

[blueZ3]

I don't care if it's a fuel cell running alcohol or fusion-on-silicon, what I want is a limited set of standard battery sizes. You know, like we used to have the main four sizes: AAA, AA, C, and D. Last time I went to look for a phone battery, there were about 50 different sizes/connectors/capacities. The only way to buy gadget batteries now is online, because it takes too long to find them in the actual store (where they're not searchable/sortable except using the bluez3 row-by-row algorithm)

We need a set of "standard" sizes so that I can swap batteries between devices, buy a few backups and have them work across devices, etc.

Re:Whatever the source, I want standard sizes

[lisaparratt]

This is what fuel cells will allow.

The reason there are all these different sized batteries is that to maximise energy density, the battery has to fit in the space left in a device after you've crammed all the electronics in. As such the battery is a bizarre device specific shape.

In the case of a fuel cell, the fuel cell will also have to be a funny size. The difference is that a large proportion of it will be a fuel tank. Fuel, unlike electricity, is easy to transfer in bulk, fast.

Instead of putting fuel cartridges in the device, you can just push the cartridge into a receptacle and fill refill the device in an instant. The cartridge can then be recycled before you go merrily on your way making mobile phone calls, etc.

Formira?

[davejenkins]

Buckaroo, givu me za formira...

Today I've been ejoying the pleasures or NETTLES

[Rob the Bold]

Formic acid is also produced by our friend, the Stinging Nettle. Definitely want to seal that up really well, or ensure that if it does leak, that it gets neutralized in the process.

But batteries also contain scary stuff, and it's been a long time since I've had one leak on me.

I am going to help you out

[flyinwhitey]

"They'll probably use ethanol or simular"

Ok, it's possible that this is a typo, and if so I apologize in advance.

It is similar. No "u", similar.

I bring it up because this is the most common way to mangle this word. Again if it was a typo, nevermind, but if not...

DON'T EVER SAY "SIM-U-LAR" AGAIN.

Re:I am going to help you out

[cnflctd]

Stop being rediculous

Re:I am going to help you out

[circusboy]

sorry, I was going to mod, but I had to reply...

Re:I am going to help you out

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

So we covered the simular/similar issue. Now how about you pick the right spelling of a particulary often misspelled Dutch word:
[_] onmidelijk
[_] onmiddellijk
[_] onmiddelijk
[_] Ok, I get your point!

Recharge

[RacerZero]

So how do you recharge a fuel cell powered device? With more "purified and modified formic acid"? If so how much does it cost per watt. And do I have to carry around "purified and modified formic acid" everywhere I go. Isn't that kind of like carrying around a bunch of non rechargeable batteries? Right now I just plug in my pone or laptop and recharge I don't have to carry my power source with me.

Energy from human body

[Anonymous Coward]

A golden age of energy accessibility may be at hand, and...

Exactly, at hand! Hand cranks seem very promising to me. They have been applied to at least laptops, mobile phones and ipods. Never used, but I'm highly aware that human body is marvelous energy container.

Energy self-sufficiency by handjobs, geek comrades, you must have some serious expertise at this field of engineering!

Re:Energy from human body

[anotherzeb]

So how do I get my girlfriend to yank my crank?

Question

[flyinwhitey]

One of the main problems with batteries in general is their tendency to become discharged without use.

Would it be possible to store one of these fuel cells for an extende period (months) without losing the "charge"? I haven't really read much about this particular property of fuel cells. In fact, I can't remember seeing it discussed.

Any ideas?

Some facts about HCOOH fuel cells...

[orzetto]

I was at AIChE 2005 (Chemical Engineering stuff if you don't bother to click the link), and followed the fuel-cell topical. These cells did make a few appearances (also last year in Austin already).

The cell is being researched by professor Richard Masel and his group. It has a relatively low power density, but that's enough for mobile electronics (no, it will not be usable on cars). The reason Masel's group is the only one working on these is that previous results discredited formic acid as a fuel, but Masel's group found out that they were using the wrong catalyst: platinum was being used (as in any other fuel cell), but for formic acid the correct one was actually palladium. Apparently, formic acid has much less problems in membrane permeation than methanol (that is, it does not burn without you using it), and has already passed tests of over 2500 consecutive hours of power production without failure.

Masel actually complained a bit that this very press release had been delayed one week, last week he could have had the press release at the same time of the conference, and could have mentioned the name of Motorola explicitly.

Another curious fact is that probably everybody of you reading has eaten some formic acid (it's in various foods), even if the high concentration at which it is used in fuel cells makes it unsuitable for a snack (it is actually going to be "burn" the skin).

For those interested, here are some abstracts: Present Status of Formic Acid Fuel Cells, High Performing Air Breathing Passive Direct Formic Acid Fuel Cell (Dfafc), Magnetic Resonance Imaging (Mri) Microscopy of Operating Direct Formic Acid Fuel Cell (Dfafc), Formic Acid Electro-Oxidation by Pd: Particle Size Effects. Proceedings are however not free for the taking, and one has to buy the CD (135 $). No guarantee they contain anything more than the abstracts for the given papers, however.

Show me the money

[xtal]

I don't want to read anohter fuel cell article that doesn't link to a product ready to buy. It's been what, a decade? Two? Get with the program.

These articles are about as useful as powerbook rumor threads. At least the Blacklight Power article was mildly educational.

Like clockwork, these things appear when people are looking for money. I imagine there will be a Ballard Power article up next.

Re:Show me the money

[luckyguesser]

I couldn't agree with you more. I suggest we make the fuel cell a goal to be reached, like private space flight. Make a contest out of it, with a big cash prize. Of course, the best option would win and would hopefully go into production... now all we need is an independently wealthy philanthropist who is tired of double-A's.

I knew it!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now my ant farm makes sense.

What if it breaks?

[poot_rootbeer]

All the red ants running on tiny treadmills inside the cell will be able to escape and will probably bite you!

Re:What if it breaks?

[Anonymous Coward]

fagget! you dont understand the concept: it is the ant's chemical that we want, not for them to run around in a circle so we can harness all .00000000056 horsepower they produce.

Battery Backups?

[Cinual]

Imagine what you could do with these. Everything would become either MORE mobile or just Everything would become to user friendly and crash and die. But battery backups for the Gov't? Imagine this. They would have infinita backups until time ended. if we find batteries that could last forever. So after the human race is wiped out im sure something else out there could find another smart race could Decode all of it and read everything that possibly happened.

Fuel Cells vs. LIPO / LION

[DaneelGiskard]

Hi!

Is there a comparison between expected fuel cell capacity (for a specific size) and LIPO/LION capacity?

Many thanks,
Michael

US tax dollars at work

[Red Flayer]

BTW, this product is a result of DARPA-funded research at University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign. Here's some info from 2002 about research in progress on batteries (you'll have to scroll down a bit to get to the part about formic acid research at UI-UC).
http://www.batteriesdigest.com/broad_spedtrum.htm

I've snipped the bit on formic acid cells: "The University of Illinois is investigating small formic acid micro fuel cells. These cells run successfully with formic acid concentrations between 5 and 20 M with little crossover or degradation in performance. Formic acid has a lower power density than methanol , but it provides higher peak power and easier water management with little crossover. Formic acid fuel cells also produce higher open circuit potentials and current densities."

Re:US tax dollars at work

[Anonymous Coward]

this product is a result of DARPA-funded research

Sweet, so the US has finally come to their senses, and started funding Canadian Researchers.

Re:US tax dollars at work

[Red Flayer]

The initial research that the product is based on was done at University of Chicago -- Urbana Champaign. Is Urbana-Champaign in France now?

Re:Vancouver. BC or WA?

[Anonymous Coward]

> You are the ones who didn't tell us where the company is.
> British California or Washington.

Just so you know, I saw that too.

Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[PaulRivers]

There certainly are a lot of fuel cell fans here, and the "coolness" factor always seems to keep them from thinking about the real pain of having to use fuel cells. Think about the days when you had to buy new alkaline batteries for everything that didn't plug in. You were always buying new batteries. Your batteries would run out, and you would suddenly realize you don't have any extras. You would realize you only had the wrong size batteries. You would realize you forgot to bring extra batteries with you. Remember how much it cost to constantly be buying new batteries? And can you imagine something like cell phones, which would undoubtedly take their own specific size of fuel cell. Can you imagine having to keep 50 replacement fuel cells around when your battery runs out? Having 50 different sizes of fuel cells? A rechargable battery has one drawback - it takes time to recharge. But it has a lot of pluses - you can recharge it practically anywhere in your country, as everywhere has the same, standard power outlets. You can recharge it in your home, at a hotel, at your friends house, hell - with a converter you can recharge stuff in your car! It recharges very cheaply. Recharging it is a low-environmental impact operation - *relatively* little pollution is created by the power plant, and there's nothing to throw away. The biggest two conveniences for me are that 1. I don't have to do much to recharge - plug it in and it does it's thing, and 2. I can do it completely at home, or most anywhere I go. There's 1 reason why companies want to develop these fuel cells - they want to force you to pay them over and over again for their fuel cells, rather than you being able to cheaply and conveniently recharge your stuff at home where they don't make any money off you.

Re:Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[neurocutie]

mmmm it doesn't sound like you understand that these fuelcells ARE "rechargeable"... you simply pour more fuel into them (or insert new cartridges, if that is how the manufacturer decides to construct them. For example, with the methanol cells, just pour some more methanol into the cell and that's it...

Re:Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[PaulRivers]

No matter how much you use the words "simply" and "just" to describe it, having to constantly buy and pour more fuel into stuff is more work than plugging it in.

Re:Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[ruben.gutierrez]

How do you heat water? Do you have a gas dryer in your home? What about a gas stove? Well, the gas has to come from somewhere. You can't envision hydrogen (or whatever fuel) routed right to your home? Maybe it would take some initial work on building new infrastructure. But then, doesn't progress always take work?

Re:Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you heat water?
Electricity.

Do you have a gas dryer in your home?
No. It uses electricity.

What about a gas stove?
No. It uses electricity.

Re:Oh sheesh, you fuel cell fanboys

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a butane lighter here. It lasts a good long time on one charge. I can buy a butane canister at any corner store for a few bucks, and with it I can recharge the lighter in roughly five seconds.

This is what I want from fuel cells. When I'm mobile, instead of carrying a half a dozen expensive batteries (all of which slowly self-discharge anyway), I will just carry a unit with a single built-in fuel cell, and one canister that can rechage that fuel cell within five seconds dozens of times. Then I'm good for weeks without being dependant on electrical outlets.

Next year in the Top 10 Worst Tech Job :

[da5idnetlimit.com]

Ant Milker 8)

Mod Parent Up

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is not offtopic (at least no more so than GP). The original Simpsons quote was wrong.

Fuel Cell Water Management Strategy

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuel Cells on Mobile Devices, wonderful idea and think of how that unused Colostomy Bag will now become useful again.

    Soon available in designer colors!

mod parent down

[not-enough-info]

There are no numbers on that page. How the hell do you "derive that it will be at least twice as long?" And no, this isn't "very technologically advanced." Proton Exchange Membranes ain't from the future.

B.S., B.S., more B.S.

Re:mod parent down

[digitaldc]

There is no definitive way to say it will last twice as long, but from the chart it looks as if the fuel volume is about 2x that of the Methanol battery. Just a guess really.

What fuel?

[eldawg]

The article/press release does seem a little light on details. This company is certainly not the only one pursuing miniature fuel cells. Most electronics manufacturers, including Canon.

They use fire ant juice as fuel

[writertype]

Well, formic acid, anyway.

It's interesting because hydrogen or methanol seems to be the preferred fuel, but these guys have chosen formic acid, which is produced by fire ants. Tekion claims the energy density is about double that of other FC technologies.

ExtremeFuelCells.com link

decade in the making

[TimeSpeak]

Well, it has officially been WAY TO FREAKIN LONG since this technology has been around, but not "mastered" and availible to teh public. Since this lies in the hands of conglomerate corporate America, we "the info addicts" need to just start posting on nerd news forums stating "I'LL BUY IT, I'LL PAY $5 million for this technology!" and those "technology marketing spy specialists" will be like.... hey boss, I'm getting a good turn out for this (random fuel-cell technology) LETS DO IT! honestly, there is no excuse (except for ROI) for a reason we don't have fuel cell driven cars, cell phones, and skateboards.

I dunno, Methanol is rough stuff too

[TubeSteak]

http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/ME/methyl_alcohol.h tml

Toxic by inhalation, ingestion or skin absorption. May be a reproductive hazard. Ingestion may be fatal. Risk of very serious, irreversible damage if swallowed. Exposure may cause eye, kidney, heart and liver damage. Chronic or substantial acute exposure may cause serious eye damage, including blindness. (emphasis theirs)

seems to me like you're pretty much screwed either way.
And Methanol is much much more flammable.

Soon, as in any day now.....

[WareW01f]

So, I know how development cycles go, but release dates on these things always remind me of the old slapstick routine where the guy goes to pick up his hat, only to kick it, tries again, kicks again, ad nauseum. That and it's already not possible to get on a plane with a lighter, there are resrictions on shipping lithium ion. Good luck on getting through the airport with your fuel cell. >;^)

Hicksville

[Anonymous Coward]

DON'T EVER SAY "SIM-U-LAR" AGAIN.

I'll bet you really go ballistic whenever you hear someone say "Nuke-Yoo-Lar"

You must be one of the most uptight spelling/grammar/pronounciation nazis evar.

Aunt Acid

[Anonymous Coward]

and all the relatives

It's time to start investing in my fire ant farm now.
Imagine 50 acres of fire ant hills! awesome.

limigen

interesting thought, that

[Quadraginta]

I like (3), except that I'm pretty unconfident it can be made small. Problem is, there's a minimal thickness of shielding you need that doesn't shrink with the size of the generator. You need x mm of lead to shield you from gamma rays of a given frequency from a given radioactive decay, and x doesn't get smaller if your device does. So how are you going to get an atomic battery small enough to get into your cell phone?

Ideally one would like a nuclear reaction that produces heat (or moderately-high temperature electrons) directly, instead of having to have those gammas and betas absorbed and thermalized by your shielding. But I don't think there are any such nuclear reactions.

OK, here's another thought. Put the nuclear battery in your car or house. Give it a directional antenna and let it broadcast power to your little device, which essentially has a jumped up RFID to receive it. When the little guy needs power, he broadcasts an omnidirectional beep, and the big guy does a little direction-finding, points the antenna at him, and fires a moderate stream of microwave juice.

Eh, I dunno. Might just be easier to have a fuel cell and carry around a bike bottle full of ethanol to refuel it. Better still, put a tiny distillation stage on the fuel cell so it can get rid of "contaminants" in the fuel, and then you can dual-purpose the bike bottle by filling it with scotch instead of pure ethanol. Wheee!

Re:interesting thought, that

[AKAImBatman]

I like (3), except that I'm pretty unconfident it can be made small. Problem is, there's a minimal thickness of shielding you need that doesn't shrink with the size of the generator. You need x mm of lead to shield you from gamma rays of a given frequency from a given radioactive decay, and x doesn't get smaller if your device does. So how are you going to get an atomic battery small enough to get into your cell phone?

??? Don't chose a material that produces significant amounts of gamma throughout it's decay life? It's been awhile since I last checked, but I believe there are a couple of options for this. (Pu-238?)

Also, you'll want to shape the isotope for maximum heat anyway, which will cause it to partly shield itself.

Re:interesting thought, that

[Quadraginta]

Er, I believe all energy from radioactive decay, other than what's in the kinetic energy of ejected particles, comes out as gammas. I don't think there are any radioactive decay schema that don't involve gamma radiation. That's just how the nuclear energy levels are spaced. I could be wrong, but it seems to me asking for a nuclear reaction that doesn't generate gamma photons is like asking for a chemical reaction that doesn't generate infrared photons (i.e. heat).

(Pu-238 produces a host of gammas and X-rays, so far as I can tell.)

I don't see how shaping the isotope helps your shielding problem. You've got radiation leaving every surface of the isotope. You need a certain thickness of shielding over that, determined by the frequency of the emitted photons (I'm assuming very thin shielding will do for the emitted particles). How can shaping the isotope help?

I'm not meaning to criticize, I'm just raising a few questions. I'm no expert. For all I know they have easy answers.

Re:interesting thought, that

[AKAImBatman]

Er, I believe all energy from radioactive decay, other than what's in the kinetic energy of ejected particles, comes out as gammas. I don't think there are any radioactive decay schema that don't involve gamma radiation.

I didn't say find a type with no gammas. I said, find an isotope that only produces weak gamma. As long as you keep the gamma levels to far below background, you're not going to have a problem. All that RF radiation the phone is spewing would be a far greater health hazzard.

I don't see how shaping the isotope helps your shielding problem. You've got radiation leaving every surface of the isotope.

Simple. Every particle in the object may decay at any moment. If you shape the isotope correctly (I *think* you want a sphere, but I may be misremembering) then you get the maximum amount of material behind other materials. An ejected radioparticle would then have a higher change of hitting something and converting to thermal energy. :-)

Re:interesting thought, that

[Quadraginta]

Well, OK. I thought you meant low energy gammas, i.e. low energy per photon, or low frequency = less penetrating, less dangerous.

But if you have a low intensity of gamma radiation, i.e. a low number of photons, then you have ipso facto a low intensity of energy production. The number of gammas is directly proportional to the number of distintegrations. That sounds like it just won't do if you want a compact source of lots of energy.

Yah, OK, making it a sphere reduces your shielding a bit. Some of your gammas will be thermalized within your isotope itself, heating it up. Hopefully not too much -- you don't want meltdown. I still find it hard to credit you're going to be able to get away with 250 microns of lead around each little fuel ball, and if you need even as little as 5-6 mm you're going to have a very hard time putting it into a cell phone.

Re:interesting thought, that

[AKAImBatman]

But if you have a low intensity of gamma radiation, i.e. a low number of photons, then you have ipso facto a low intensity of energy production. The number of gammas is directly proportional to the number of distintegrations. That sounds like it just won't do if you want a compact source of lots of energy.

I think you have a misunderstanding of radioisotopes. Sr90, for example, is another common isotope used in RTGs. It produces no Gamma radiation to speak of. Of course, it may produce gamma farther down the decay chain (radioisotopes usually go through being a few different elements before reaching a stable state), but in its initial decay it's perfectly safe. I wish I still had the link that showed all the decay states. According to the EPA website, however, Sr-90 decays next into Y-90 which (if I'm reading this page correctly) produces a fraction of 1% of its radiation as Gamma rays.

probably not

[Quadraginta]

Well, it's probably more like not running your car. The gasoline just sits there. No degradation of your power supply.

Batteries discharge because it's possible for the chemical reaction that discharges them to proceed without the external circuit being complete. It's just a lot slower. The problem is that the battery has all the chemicals it needs to run the reaction. You've just put this "valve" (the external circuit) that prevents a good flow of electrons from one side to the other.

In the case of the fuel cell, however, you presumably turn it on and off by controlling the flow of fuel, just the way you control your gasoline-burning car. So if you want it off, you don't give it the fuel, and so your fuel doesn't get used up.

This is just a guess, I don't actually know how these things are configured.

let's get a grip?

[Quadraginta]

Folks, there are acids and there are acids. When a lot of people hear acid they think of something like auto battery acid (hydrochloric acid) or aqua regia or some such, the kind of caustic stuff that burns holes in leather.

Formic acid is an "organic" acid, a very close cousin to acetic acid, otherwise known as vinegar, and their acidities are not too dissimilar. (The pKa of formic acid is 3.75 and of acetic acid about 4.75.) So when you think of formic acid, you're best off thinking it's a lot like highly concentrated vinegar. It's got a pungent and obnoxious odor, for example, and you certainly wouldn't want to drink it. If you sniffed a bit it would be much like sniffing the fumes from a boiling pan of vinegar. Nasty, but liveable. If it's in an open container it would irritate your eyes and throat. You wouldn't bathe in it. But if you spilled it on your hands, it wouldn't eat them off to the wrist leaving blackened stumps. It would just sting, maybe like a stinging nettle or bee-sting, and you'd go wash it off, possibly leaving some irritated red skin behind for a while. Your household bleach is probably a lot more dangerous, inasmuch as bases generally are nastier than acids.

The low flammability and lower vapor pressure of HCOOH over methanol is a bonus, I'd say. You don't want flammable liquids hanging out around devices that use electric power. If you spill a few drops of formic acid from a damaged phone on your pants, well, you might have to change your pants and wash. But if leaking methanol catches on fire from the electronics, you might need skin grafts.

We should also bear in mind that nearly any fuel is going to be at least a little irritating and a bit dangerous. I mean, what makes a fuel a fuel is that it's highly chemically reactive.

Not over the edge?

[anotherzeb]

You've seen about global warming, the Tsunami and the increasing hurricanes - don't you think we're already over the edge?

Re:Not over the edge?

[qray]

You've seen about global warming, the Tsunami and the increasing hurricanes - don't you think we're already over the edge?

Tsunami's are caused by geologic movement and I doubt that's affected much by global warming. Hurricanes are cyclic, and we're returning to levels seen in the 60's. The average intensity might provide a better indicator.

If we're over the edge, then it's probably unrelated to anything humans have done. I live in what was once a tropical zone that is no longer. If we're over the edge now, then we've been ten miles from the edge in the past. I believe there have been past erruptions that have dwarfed anything we humans have expelled in a much shorter time and life survived.

Honestly I think we worry about the wrong things. We'd be better off spending our energy on how to deal with it. Past history indicates this planet has seen wild climatic changes and probably will in experience such changes in the future.

Hopefully such changes will be far enough off in the future where we will have the technology to survive here or find some place a bit cooler.
--
Q

It's all about energy density

[smartalix]

There is no magic wand here. As Scotty (RIP) used to say, "Ya kanna change the laws of physics, Captain!" As we try to cram more and more energy into a tiny metal (or plastic) box we must confront the facts. Unless we discover a radically new technology (such as solving the issues involved in commercial manufacture, packaging, and disposal of radioisotope-based power systems) we are confined to how much "oomph" we can shove into a cubic centimeter using a chemical reaction.

A high-capacity battery is basically a bomb that releases its energy slowly. Most of us have at least read about when a battery undergoes a "catastrophic thermal runaway event".

A fuel cell that can put out enough energy to be useful will run HOT. First-generation devices will be best suited for laptops and devices that one does not hold close to the body. Size is not the only hurdle to clear in this matter.