Run Windows MCE Applications on Xbox 360

BlueMoon writes "A user of the GA-forum found out the Media Extender on the Xbox 360 allows to stream Windows MediaCenter applications over network on your Xbox 360 console. While the applications themselves will run on the MCE PC, it'll stream the interface/input to the Xbox360/PC. Simple MCE apps like those modified browsers to pull down news stories, stock quotes, sports scores etc., as well as several internet radio clients worked fine. Mini-games like a Tetris clone and some card game crashed, but then again ... that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360."

Comments

HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[dada21]

I'm a big MCE supporter. Yes, I have tried MythTV (5 different installs) and Sage and every other variety over the years. MCE passes the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor), crashed only once in the past 4 months, and can handle nearly unlimited tuners. No, there is no hardcore cable HDTV support (except for unencrypted channels which is all I get anyway). The third party support is awesome and all my add-ons are bulletproof.

I will be buying an X360 to replace my Xboxes which currently run as extenders. I have less than 10 games (most bought used). If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units.

I am more interested in HDTV support and multichannel sound on the X360 extenders, as well as how well the actual video quality is. My Xbox extender's output is pretty bad (noise, gamma modifications and other weird issues). I'm waiting for the rush of X360's to purchase them used if possible, as I did with my Xboxes.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[__aahsof7392]

Just imagine if you didn't buy any Xbox360s, that would be a 100% loss for microsoft. You're just helping them recuperate their losses.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[onion2k]

I will be buying an X360 to replace my Xboxes which currently run as extenders. I have less than 10 games (most bought used). If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units.

I imagine Microsoft can afford the loss. What they gain from your purchase is perceived market share. Of all the consoles sold there'll be 3 360s and no PS3s as a result of your purchase. As Microsoft are desperate to show their stockholders that the cash they're burning through to grab as large a chunk of the games industry as they can they won't be too bothered that they've lost a bit of money. Money is easy to get. World domination is all in the statistics.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[CastrTroy]

You're a little off. If he doesn't buy one, then they don't have to produce it. If they lose $160 on every box they sell, then they lose that much when he buys it. If he buys 10, they lose $1600. If he doesn't buy any, then they don't need to produce any, and therefore don't lose any money. The only time they would be losing money, from him not buying, is if they couldn't sell the unit at all. Which doesn't seem to be the case.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[dada21]

True. I'm no Microsoft basher (I see more wealthy people in my age group because of Microsoft than any other company).

World domination of one person or cabal is scary, but world domination from a corporation owned by millions (billions?) of people isn't something I think we need to fear, especially if that domination is likely to be ended by some other company (Google, etc).

I know MS doesn't care if I lose money -- I just wanted to make note to the geeks who care that there is a use for the X360 other than gaming!

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[cr0n]

Well not really, if the console is purchased for extender capabilities with no Xbox live subscription or future of gaming its a loss.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[maynard]

Yeah. Except he has an application for which the Xbox 360 suits his purpose. Not buying the product just to spite MS seems counterproductive. If it does what he needs, at a price point he likes, should he boycott due to your concerns? IMO: to boycott is a personal choice, like voting or party affiliation. --M

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[whitehatlurker]

If he doesn't buy any, then they don't need to produce any, and therefore don't lose any money.

OMG - you mean by not buying an XBox ... I'm helping the enemy!?

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[fishbowl]

>If they lose $160 on every box they sell, then they lose that much when he buys it.

Where does this data come from, anyway?

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[badriram]

Well, I have been using my 360 as MCE extender. And everything works fine for me.... But my problem is that when you have recorded tv that gets streched out to 720p it looks sooo terrible. Once i bumbed up the video quality, it seems better. My other problem is that I usually like my usual 4:3 channels to strech on tv, and cannot seem to find a way to do that.

However I find it funny that the submission blames MS/360 for a crash in some third party product.... And I have not had any issues with my 360.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[ergo98]

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/Micr osoftCableCARDXbox360.php

REDMOND, WA and LOUISVILLE, CO - Nov. 16, 2005 - Microsoft Corp. and Cable Television Laboratories Inc. (CableLabs®) today announced they have reached an agreement that will allow Microsoft and PC manufacturers to bring to market digital-cable-ready Windows® Media Center-based PCs in the holiday 2006 time frame.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[brjndr]

I am also a big Windows Media Center fan, but there is one huge problem I have encountered. No HBO. I get HBO as part of my service (Dish Networks), but WMC won't let me watch or record it. It's puts up a blue 'Content Restricted' screen, which is apparently some implementation of the broadcast flag. It's not just preventing me from recording it, but from watching it at all. Well, I can turn to that channel and get about 10 seconds before the content protection screen comes up. This is seriously hurting the product. I had a Tivo, and wanted to switch to Media Center to avoid monthly fees, but if I can't record Rome or other HBO shows to watch later, than there is no real reason to stick with MCE.

If anyone knows of a fix for this I'd appreciate it. I've check out thegreenbutton.com, but I haven't found a solution yet.

I tried MythTV, but not being a Linux user I had no idea how to fix a lot of problems. Tivo was great, but I do like having one central machine where content can be instantly streamed to the extenders around the house, and I really like not paying a monthly fee.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Otter]

...especially if that domination is likely to be ended by some other company (Google, etc).

I'm amazed that we have yet to see a single story insisting that the Xbox is doomed in the face of the impending Google Video Game Console and its revolutionary AJAX-based games...

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[dada21]

Isn't there a zoom feature in the information menu? I'd be surprised if they forgot that step!

I absolutely hate "Fair" compression on anything over 480p. Even the best compression still looks terrible, considering what my cable company probably does to the signal first.

Fortunately, HD programming is becoming more prevalent and that is why the X360 is a needed purchase. Almost all my TVs will be HD-capable by early next year.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[c_forq]

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/23/ 1549209&tid=211

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Chr0nik]

No, your just not participating.

If someone really wanted to hurt them(sony, nintendo, listen up).

They'd buy like 10,000 of these, and pay some heavies to get linux running on them. Then sell them on some auction site, or craigslist, "pre-hacked for your convenience." for $20 over retail a piece. In this way, profiting off an xbox console that can't be used to play the games microsoft is gambling on to make them their money. All that loss, no possibility of regaining it.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[tomstdenis]

Hmm ... buy a $500 computer which I have to hack to get to work, it burns more energy than an electric furnace and was designed by MSFT ...

or just custom build a desktop box for $700 that uses way less power and supports your local economy and works out of the box for what you want to do

hmmm ....

tough decision.

Tom

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[dada21]

The Xbox360 can't have market domination if Microsoft continues to not break a profit. Simple free market economics (Austrian School) show that the supply will eventually be more than demand, causing the prices to drop. Once a competitive product is released, this will cause demand to go down even further.

If Microsoft had a monopoly on video game systems, I believe it would be cause to worry. They don't, and they will never have a monopoly granted by the one group that can create a monopoly: government.

From what I can see, Microsoft's loss-leader on the Xbox360 IS a smart move to getting in the living room, yet there is much more to controlling the living room than the Xbox360 can handle. My MCE PC (>$2000) still won't do everything I want to see in a single-console computer.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[fishbowl]

In other words, the belief is based on speculation. The actual manufacturing costs aren't disclosed. It's in the company's interest to make the consumer *believe* it's losing money, or that it's losses are higher per unit than other consumer devices in the bracket, but it might not even be true.

Or if it is true that the company takes a $126 loss per unit, does that actually mean what the typical consumer thinks it means?

What's the wholesale, pre-tax, pre-import-duty cost on the Xbox? What's it's insured value at the warehouse? Are the per-component, per-unit-labor, and per-unit packaging and transportation costs really disclosed to the public? Why would they be?

Who benefits from a widespread belief that you're "sticking it to Microsoft" if you buy an Xbox and not buying any games?

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[RatBastard]

I will be buying an X360 to replace my Xboxes which currently run as extenders. I have less than 10 games (most bought used). If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units.

We're all impressed by how cool you are. With how you're sticking it to The Man. With how you're putting another nail in Microsoft's coffin.

Now, pull your head out of your clueless butt.

By all accounts Microsoft has enough liquid assets (cash and prizes) to run for more than a year with *DUM! DUM! DUM-DUM!* no income at all. I've heard estimates of up to 40 billion dollars in available assets before they have to start selling off shares of stock. Your little act of rebellion is like trying to kill a blue whale with a thumbtack. They won't even feel it.

There are many valid reasons to buy an XBox/XBox 360: to play games, to watch DVDs, to chat with friends online, to hack and mod, to cover in feces and throw across the fence into the back yard of that noisy bastard who lives next door. But buying one in order to feel smug because you're costing Microsoft an insignificant amount of money they'll never miss is about as childish as I can imagine.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[bynary]

Duplicate thread...check here for more amusing money/Xbox rantings.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Dahamma]

As Microsoft are desperate to show their stockholders that the cash they're burning through to grab as large a chunk of the games industry as they can they won't be too bothered that they've lost a bit of money.

That was the strategy for the first XBox. Now stockholders more than anyone want to see the OPPOSITE - ie. to stop burning through all of that cash and make a PROFIT on their games business.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Jagasian]

Have you tried XBMC? It is free and runs on the Xbox. You can use it as an extender or as a media player itself.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[NickCatal]

Yes... because a competing company purchasing 10,000 of these then modifying them in a manor that the competing companies themselves are very much against (and wish to make illegal) is a GREAT idea... /rolls eyes

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[maynard]

I dunno. Easy decision for you, wrong decision for him. Or, at least, his decision to make. Me, I won't be buying an XBox 360 because I don't want one. OTOH: I probably won't buy the PS3 either. My PS2 has languished unused for the last two years, and my PSP sits unused too. I'm just too damn busy. But if this guy wants to buy a bunch of XBox 360s to control his HDTVs - his money - more power to him. JMO. --M

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Utopia]

Have you tried Neowin.net or Microsoft newsgroups?

I don't have any problems recording HBO shows.

I believe you are effected by the issue described in http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=891664

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[maynard]

You might find this thread on 5C copyright protection interesting. Basically, anything other than OTA content is encrypted and set to "copy once" or "copy never" per FCC mandate. Since your Windows or Mac video and MPEG drivers don't support decrypting 5C content, your HTPC can't play back the encrypted premium content. A DVHS deck can, however. And it's likely that new versions of MacOS X and Windows Vista, with DRM enabled HDMI cables out to the display device, will be able to record and playback this content in the near future. But for now, you're shit out of luck. --M

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[fbg111]

If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units.

MS will lose even more if you don't buy a 360 at all. But of course, this is Slashdot where MS purchases require justification, no matter how contorted.

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Billygoatz]

There are 6,584,837,144.00 people living at 12:09 PM Billygoatz time, minus the three Million Units in three Months Microsoft believes it will sell equals 6,581,837,144.00 people who refuse to buy a quality product, that's a loss of atleast 1,967,969,306,056 US Dollars As Microsoft may be worth up to 400 billion, It has put itself in the red by $1,567,969,306,056! If you own any shares of microsoft not only are they worthless, you now owe 4.9 times it value!

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[Syberghost]

I just wanted to make note to the geeks who care that there is a use for the X360 other than gaming!

Good, 'cause it won't stay up long enough to use it FOR gaming. :)

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[ozmanjusri]

because a competing company purchasing 10,000 of these then modifying them in a manor

Why whould you use a big house? Wouldn't a factory be a better option?

Re:HDTV, and how I helped MS lose money

[StikyPad]

If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units...I'm waiting for the rush of X360's to purchase them used if possible

Actually, if you buy them used they're losing 0x as much money, because they'd be selling 0 more units than if you hadn't bought them at all.

In fact, the only thing I got from your post was was, "MCE/Xbox extenders are the best solution available and I use them. Hopefully MS loses money and never makes them again."

Who wants this?

[Anonymous Coward]

VNC/Xbox? WTF?

Re:Who wants this?

[JVert]

Its actually RDP, but sure, I guess you can run VNC in the RDP session to manage your PDC while working at the STFU.

that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh....I have a 360 and nope no crashes, no problems, no inner need-to-bash-microsoft for the sake of it.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[Eddy Da KillaBee]

While the parent was modded as funny, in all seriousness I'm getting sick and tired of people bashing the 360 for "constantly crashing". You guys make it sound like ALL 360s are doing that. Look, the PS2 has had defects, the PSP had issues with dead pixels, and I'm sure other systems have had their fair share of defects. However, it does not mean that all systems are defective; so please, grow the hell up and stop making it sound like all 360s have issues!

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[pl1ght]

I also have NO PROBLEMS with my Xbox360. By the way. It has come to light in many forums that the issue isnt with the Xbox360 Console itself, but the powersupply having shorts and other issues. Once people have been figuring this out, they have been able to stop the problems from happening until they can acquire a replacement from MS. Which by the way, Microsoft is overnighting Boxes to people with paid overnight shipping back to send the defective PSUs back. Then they are Overnighting back a new PSU. how is that for customer service.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[pnice]

I just wanted to add that my Xbox360 hasn't crashed on me yet. I feel the same way you do, no need to bash "just because". I don't doubt some people are having trouble but, as always, the people will trouble will speak out much more than the people with no trouble at all.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[rograndom]

Sigh....I have a 360 and nope no crashes, no problems, no inner need-to-bash-microsoft for the sake of it.

Haven't taken it out of the box yet, huh?

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[CFTM]

Aye, mine has yet to crash! Madden 2006 is the worst game EVER.
Kameo is fucking sweet.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[thuh Freak]

you rush to ebay on thx weekend. you buy little Jimmy his favorite toy at 5x MSRP (because, btw, you're a flipping moron). then, you have to wonder just how much he's going to hate it xmas morning (and sour any chances you might've had at being super-dad), since there is % liklihood that it'll explode when he tries it out. unlikely? perhaps, but x% > 0%, and its nice as a consumer to be aware of these things. afterall, by learning and knowing more about the problem, we open ourselves to the possibility of fixing it.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[The-Bus]

I myself have been playing my 360 for about a week, and I've had a couple of sessions that were multiple hours. I've had 1 game save lost, but that was because of the game, not the console*. The hardware itself has not crashed at all and the "crashing" reports seem to be a fire fanned by people who are interested in seeing the 360 fail. (Personally, I'd like to have Sony/MS/Nintendo with each at least 25% market share).

I don't know many people with 360s personally, but the two I have spoken with have also not had any problems. Yes, the power supply does need airflow so you shouldn't rest it on shag carpet or a pile of oily rags. Not really any different from any other electronics.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[DrXym]

I hope that no one is insinuating that every XBox 360 has problems, however the point is that anyone who queues up in the first days of a brand new launch and hands over a lot of money sight unseen for a largely untested piece of hardware, an untested online service and a paltry selection of games is ASKING FOR TROUBLE. It doesn't matter if it's an XBox 360, a PS2, a PSP or even an iPod Nano. You might be lucky, or you might be the proud owner of a piece of crap and then have the stress of returning it and hoping MS deign to ship you another one this side of Christmas.

Let the chumps do the beta testing and wring out the bugs. Not just hardware bugs, but software bugs since the system is extremely software intensive. It's not like the XBox 360 is going anywhere anyway. Microsoft are allegedly restricting the supply for release. Some think it is some cunning marketing ploy, but perhaps it's because of the flaws - restricting the number of boxes minimizes the fallout and gives them some breathing space to produce a new revision that fixes the issues.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[Bones3D_mac]

Sigh....I have a 360 and nope no crashes, no problems, no inner need-to-bash-microsoft for the sake of it.

Agreed. The system is very solid and does what it does extremely well. (No crashes here either.)

The FUD the system is getting is unjustified outside of the potential for yet another Microsoft bashing fest.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[xchino]

Ok, well, I have an xbox 360 and it crashes constantly, so do two of my friends, while I have another one whose has never crashed. Various polls show between %10-%25 of xbox 360s have a problem with crashing. That's fucking ridiculous. That's a crap product. There's is absolutely NO reason NOT to bash microsoft for this shit. They rushed an unstable product out the door just in time for christmas, and now people are seeing what shit it is and calling MS on it. Even if only %10 of all 360s in circulation have problems with crashing, that is completely unacceptable, and MS deserves every bit of bashing they get for it. Defend MS all you want, they are in the wrong, and I will advise everyone who asks my opinion NOT to buy an xbox 360.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[timster]

My girlfriend's Mac Mini power supply rests on carpet and is often covered by a blanket.

I used to keep the power supply for my GameCube in a closed cabinet.

Heck, back in the days of the C64, the power supply was always on a carpet, surrounded by other cables.

This idea that self-contained power supplies have to be kept on a hard surface with airflow is a completely new one invented by XBox 360 apologists. Stick with the argument that it's not uncommon for new hardware to have problems, and as long as Microsoft is willing to provide a fix it's not really a big deal.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, Microsoft is replacing defective parts? Holy Shit, stop the presses!

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[mrRay720]

Various polls report 10-25% of them crash? Wow, maybe the vast majority of people who don't have crashing 360s are busy playing games instead of filling out polls.

Also check out the post above about iPod failure rates - 20-30% depending on the exact model. From this we can obviously conclude that Microsoft are 1x to 3x better than Apple.

Or maybe I'm just talking rubbhish, like you.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[glitch23]

Given that the PS2 and PSP had issues, the difference is that (on the surface at least) the PS2 and PSP had, exactly as you say, defects while the 360 seems to be experiencing design flaws due to not knowing how to design a system that can operate in the environment that the target audience will be running it in.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[Monkey]

I've been a Unix admin for 10+ years and I'm by no means an MS fanboy. However, I realized years ago that blatantly bashing a piece of technology based strictly on the vendor/OS is short sighted and more than a little immature. I wonder had the exact same piece of hardware been sold with a Nintendo logo on it, would it have been panned as badly as the Xbox 360 has been.

Microsoft does occasionally make some cool shit.

I've had my 360 for about a week and experienced no problems with it. I've found the PSU barely warm to the touch after hours of play so I'm not sure what people are doing to require it be suspended by string or whatever. In fact, overall, I've been very impressed with the games I got with it and Xbox Live! seems to have a lot of potential.

One of more poignant realizations of the sheer power of this system came when I was playing Kameo the other day. There was one scene where you're at the top of this hill on your warhorse and there are hundreds of trolls charging up the hill towards you, as I charged down the hill trampling trolls, I realized that each troll model and its AI was operating completely independently of the other trolls. There were over a thousand trolls each doing their own thing in response to what I was doing. That takes some serious hardware horsepower to pull off.

Re:that seems to be a normal behaviour for the 360

[dalangalma]

Mine's also been working perfectly. I think some people are just upset that they haven't managed to snag one.

P.S.: My power supply is on carpet and buried in cables.

Some card game crashed

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my XBox 360 to play solitare for hours at a time by moving the cards very very slowly. Trying to complete a game too quickly lead to overheating. And don't even try playing minesweeper as sporadic explosions have been reported.

Show off ;)

[garcia]

My guess is that it will be difficult to get anything other than simple casual games to run in real time using the interface, due to lag in response times.

Sounds like a worthwhile application, no? I mean, nothing like spending $400+ on a dumb-terminal to play laggy Solitare on a huge TV (this guy was just showing off his Sony HD monitor) and have it crash after a bit.

But I would think getting something like a full web browser up and running should be achievable.

He means porn. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what the advantages would be to having an unstable browser session open on a huge monitor.

Re:Show off ;)

[TubeSteak]

Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what the advantages would be to having an unstable browser session open on a huge monitor.

Imagine Slashdot on a really big projector screen.

2x the information in 1/2 the time.

Though this would be a little hard to explain to your boss...
1. Why are you sitting in the conference room?
2. Why did you bring your Xbox into work?
3. And why are you browsing /.?

The possibilities are endless!

[casualsax3]

Imagine (once a solid Xbox emulator is released) playing Starfox for Snes9x on your Xbox on your PC on your Xbox 360!

Re:The possibilities are endless!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd rather play Super Mario Bros. 3 on a NES emulator for GameBoy Advance on a GP2X running a GBA emulator.

I'm confused!

[mangus_angus]

I will be buying an X360 to replace my Xboxes which currently run as extenders. I have less than 10 games (most bought used). If MS is losing money on every X360, then they'll lose 3x that with my units.

Well on one hand I'm sickened at the fact you are buying a Microsoft product (this being slashdot and all), but on the other hand you will be costing them large amounts of money....

Source missing

[-pms-mistletoe]

Where is this story "via"? I've only seen it on one blog today.. where's the credit..

Exploits lurking to execute unsigned code?

[flowerp]

So, quick, write some exploit to inject code into the xbox using some buffer
overflow in the remote desktop code. Does this sound feasible?

Hopefully this UI code does not run in a sandbox (for example as managed code) as some form of type/range checked byte code. That would pretty much spoil the fun.

Re:Exploits lurking to execute unsigned code?

[garcia]

Hopefully those parts of the OS aren't upgradeable with OS updates during XBox Live or game play. That would pretty much spoil the fun of the fun.

Re:Exploits lurking to execute unsigned code?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 'Problem' with extending functionality of a system (like the XBox 360/PS3) to interface with other systems is that (eventually) exploits will be found to get around your copy protection schemes; think of the PSP interfacing with the memory stick, hackers got homebrew running on it in record time. I suspect that by the time the PS3 is released there will be readily available mod-chips (or possibly other methods) to get games running on the XBox 360 with how much 'functionality' microsoft has added.

Why?

[Voltageaav]

The TV out on my Media Center computer works just fine. No crashes at all. Why don't you just use that?

Re:Why?

[td4guy]

Because you can't connect Xbox 360 controllers to your PC

Oh wai

Re:Why?

[Muramasa]

Actually you can. Microsoft makes a PC version of the controller as well, it connects through a USB port. I've seen them at Best Buy.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because My Media Center is downstairs while my TV is up stairs. Being able to access all my digital media on any TV through my network is much more flexable than having a Meda Center Computer for every TV.

What is abnormal about a system working?

[FerretFrottage]

Agreed....in almost week of ownership, no crashes, artifacts or other "normal" behavior. Maybe I just jinxed myself or maybe I just have an abnormal box. Really out of all the 360's sold and in use today, how many are having problems? 5%, 10%, 50%, 100%!!!

Now I do have some beef about the how MCE and the 360 don't seem to work with mapped drives (this includes both Windows and linux/samba shared drives) or external drives connected to MCE. The 360 still has a lot to learn from XBMC.

Re:What is abnormal about a system working?

[Jonny_eh]

It also won't play xvid/divx avi files, let alone avi files with AC3 streams. Also, it can't play ogg vorbis audio, I mean, come on! Don't tease me like this!

old news

[dmf415]

Microsoft employees were demonstrating this at the XBOX launch party last monday.
The XBOX 1 modchip made it into a multimedia center also, allowing users to upload videos to the XBOX and play them at will. I guess microsoft saw the value in this and is now the vendor for this multimedia center.

intro to Media Center Extenders

[Anonymous Coward]

the pictures from that blog look like they are from Media Centers 'Online Spotlight'. this is sort of a walled garden for approved Media Center sites. the 'More Programs' part is where smaller developer shops can install a link to their application. but the applications that do work from MCE to any MCE Extender (including the XBOx 360) are called 'Hosted HTML' applications. all they are is web sites that have been formatted to look good on a big screen and can be controlled with a remote. more complicated games (e.g. Direct3D) will not get remote displayed from the MCE to the Extender, so you can currently only do basic apps on an extender.

Re:intro to Media Center Extenders

[sevinkey]

This idea was pretty neat, since Media Center Extenders can display hosted html pages, but embedded flash, etc, runs extremely choppy since the actual webpages run over Remote Desktop. The video stream is on a separate channel with extenders, so what they are suggesting should be possible, however the lag would be around 3-5 seconds I'm sure.

so let me get this straight

[rednuhter]

so let me get this straight, if you have a TV connected to a MCE system and XBox360 connected to another TV then you can view apps running on the MCE system ?
Why not just look at the other TV ?

To nit-pickers, when I say TV I mean any video output device.

Re:so let me get this straight

[pl1ght]

Because most of us who have HDTV only have one. Sure some people have 2. B ut id rather stream my HD content from my MCE tv through my xbox 360 hooked up to my big screen HDTV with my surround sound etc.

Re:so let me get this straight

[ImaLamer]

Why put the MCE in the same room or TV? Most MCE PC's sold today actually don't have TV-OUT hookups (try your local big chain store).

Put the PC in the closet.

Another thing to remember...

[Spy der Mann]

the XBOX 360 crashes are a hardware problem, not something about the OS running on them. Yes, it means your Linux might crash on the 360 :-o

Revenge!

[Anonymous Coward]

"However, it does not mean that all systems are defective; so please, grow the hell up and stop making it sound like all 360s have issues!"

Why not? Since when does slashdot want to be fair to a convicted monopoly that's given them grief for decades? This is our revenge. Don't take that away from us.

Re:Revenge!

[Anonymous Coward]

lol. is that all you have left? taking revenge on a convicted monopolist by anonymously bashing them on the grid?

dude, just kill yourself now.

Priorities

[nuintari]

Uhhh, show me that you can run an xbox 360 game on an xbox 360 and I'll be more impressed at this point....

Original Xbox Media Center

[dreemernj]

This seems similar to the original XBox Media Center software. A friend of mine was running it on a heavily modded box and it was kind of nifty.

Re:Original Xbox Media Center

[JVert]

Seems like the exact same thing except perhaps you dont have to buy the extender software? Meda center extender for the original xbox gave you all the features they mention, you are not going to get any more features without updating media center itself.

News for nerds who have no idea what is going on outside their dorm.

Re:Original Xbox Media Center

[Namarrgon]

Yeah, much the same, except that it can install to your HDD & boots straight into it (no mucking about with discs), it's completely standalone (no need for an MCE PC), it plays DVDs natively, it plays all video, music, pictures etc from its own DVD & HDD drives, it plays DivX/XVid & every format known to man (not just MPEG, WMV and DVR-MS), it streams direct from your TiVo or Replay, it downloads IMDB info, net radio, movie & game trailers, acts as a gaming portal, it's fully skinnable...

But other than that, the exact same thing, as you say. Only not.

Time to poke your own head out of your dorm, maybe?

Re:Original Xbox Media Center

[JVert]

Sounds like you confusing the xbox media center with the media center extender that they are actually reffering to in this article.

Re:Original Xbox Media Center

[Namarrgon]

Not at all. Media Center Extender is software you can buy for Xbox (and is included in Xbox 360) that just remotes the interface of your MCE PC. As you implied, it gives you only what your MCE PC can do. The built-in Xbox 360 version supports HDTV, unlike the Xbox version.

XBMC is free software for modded Xboxes that does not require a PC, and supports a much wider range of codecs & features than MCE + Media Center Extender does (though there's no support for HD or recording TV of course). There's a big difference.

I use XBMC daily; I'm quite familiar with what it does, and with what MCE + Media Center Extender does. Unless I misunderstood what your original point was?

About the Xbox360 crashes......a possible fix.

[up2ng]

Apparently if you get the power supply off the floor and let air move around it it will stop crashing.
Due to some design oversights and lack of foresight as to how the units would be used (on the floor/rug with no moving air around it) if you let the external P/S breathe the XBOX360 will not crash !

This has worked for a few friends of mine so far, let's see what round two of the XBOX360 problems hold in store.

Re:About the Xbox360 crashes......a possible fix.

[radish]

if you let the external P/S breathe the XBOX360 will not crash !

Mine doesn't crash anyway. These "problems" are just the usual round of blog-powered hyperbole.

Re:About the Xbox360 crashes......a possible fix.

[Gingernads]

I call the first 3rd party 'PS Cooler Fan' addons on sale.

Interest Piqued

[jwink]

I am still on the fence as to which console to purchase. I have not special love for Microsoft but no special hatred either (except for, possibly, their marketing department). I still want to wait and see what eventually comes out (next February?) from Sony and Nintendo.

That being said, my interest is piqued. I do want a gaming console, but that it can also be a dumb terminal for other apps, possibly those I develop myself appeals to the geek/developer in me. It is also another aspect (as someone may have previously mentioned) that has wife-appeal.

Has anyone heard if Sony or Nintendo plan something similar, i.e. how much media center integration are they planning and/or are they planning something like this?

Re:Interest Piqued

[UnknowingFool]

I have not special love for Microsoft but no special hatred either . . .

You must be new here.

Re:Interest Piqued

[jwink]

Does 4 months count as new? Not sure...

Here's another, and possibly relevant question: will reading Slashdot too much cause me to develop a hatred of Microsoft? Or does reading Slashdot too much cause cancer/blindness/cynicism/hair on my palms (like everything else)?

Re:Interest Piqued

[oscartheduck]

Reading Slashdot doesn't cause Microsoft hatred, it merely develops it.

Re:Interest Piqued

[Geoffreyerffoeg]

Does 4 months count as new? Not sure...

In your case, yes, 'cause you haven't figured out that "you must be new here" is a rhetorical question (actually, it's not even a question, so it's a rhetorical statement, which is not only redudant but superfluous and repetitive). I've seen it used on people with 4-digit UIDs. I'm pretty sure someone replied to CmdrTaco himself with the phrase at some point.

Why not make a MCE Xbox360?

[griffindj]

Why do these machines have to be two different products? Most people buying MCE PCs are hooking them directly to their primary tv set and if not use an xbox as an extender to the primary tv. I understand that MCE PCs can do a lot more than just MCE applications (word processing, internet, chat) but how hard would it be to put a tv tuner card IN the xbox and have the same functionality?

I mean if they really want to get into peoples living rooms, an all in one solution is where they should start. Buying two seperate products and then buying an additional extender to me looks like they're trying to squeeze every last penny out of the consumer.

Re:Why not make a MCE Xbox360?

[galfridus73]

That would mean making a PowerPC-compatible version of Windows, or putting both a PPC and an Intel chip in the Xbox 360 XP MCE box. Not the best idea. The 360 is already an extender. If there is an MCE box on the network, then the 360 will be able to stream from it. And, no, I would not want my game console to be recording two shows while I'm playing a video game. Neither operation is going to fare well if that's the case. In fact, I'll be honest: I would prefer to see an non MCE-enabled 360 for games and games only. If I want the MCE options I'll pay for them.

Re:Why not make a MCE Xbox360?

[Anonymous Coward]

There are loads of reasons why you want a compact, neat "frontend" device in the loungeroom/main tv and a "backend" (using MythTV naming here!) server which hosts the content. It means you can centralise your content and serve to multiple locations. This is something that MCE lacks significantly in comoparison to MythTV. I run MythTV on a backend server in my server rack, and have an xbox (not 360) running as the front-end. I can also watch TV on my laptop anywhere in the house wirelessly.

MCE is a nice interface, but until it gives me the flexibility of MythTV - Im sticking with MythTV!

MythTV also allows you to have a tuner in the frontend and share its content with other systems. MythTV is very cool, and if development picked up speed, would absolutely walk all over MCE in a very short period of time.

At the moment, its solid but not as polished as MCE, which is one of MCE's few saving graces (the plugins available are very useful and clean too.)

It's not a loss for MS

[Kirby-meister]

When you buy a console from MS, think of it from this perspective - they don't lose $126, but rather recoup $400 towards a $526 loss.

Although in the end they've already made their money from the retailers who stock up. But if nobody bought them off the retailers, the retailers wouldn't order more for their shelves.

Re:It's not a loss for MS

[Generic Guy]

When you buy a console from MS, think of it from this perspective - they don't lose $126, but rather recoup $400 towards a $526 loss.

When you sell something for less than it costs to make, its a loss. They are not writing-down unsold inventory, these are going out of the gate at a $126 loss per unit.

Let me put this another way... I didn't care much for the original Xbox when it came out. It was big, kinda ugly, and the games were very derivative. The best Xbox games the first couple of years were available on other platforms, too. Even Halo came out for the PC.
It was literally this year that I became interested in Xbox. Turns out they have built-in ethernet and make good media players. I bought two.
I've also bought a few games, but all from the used aisle. That means, despite the cash I've outlaid for the used games and the (new in box) consoles, MS has never recouped their loss on my two Xboxes. They've subsidized my Xboxes at their expense.

With the new Xbox costing more than ever, and games running $60 each, you can bet that if and when I get a 360 unit, I'll still be shopping that used game aisle. How is Microsoft going to make up the difference? Wait for the guy next to me to buy 32 games new in shrink wrap?

Re:It's not a loss for MS

[Anonymous Coward]

How does such stupidity get moderated insightful? By your logic, since there are over 6 billion people out there who have NOT purchased an xbox 360, that must mean microsoft has over 6 billion consoles sitting in a warehouse unsold. They must be losing trillions of dollars.

Of course not. The reality is that every person that doesn't buy one is one less console they order in their next batch. The only time your non-purchase costs them any money is if you "make" your non-purchase from their last batch of inventory, and only if that last batch never sells out.

Dude, the XBox 1 had a Media Center Extender kit

[Anonymous Coward]

As well. It replaced the DVD Kit (included the DVD Functionality, came with the receiver and remote). This is not new functionality for the XBox, though it is a new core capability (previously requiring an add-on)

Because its cool to bash MS

[aka_big_wurm]

Yeah my 360 has worked flawless also -- my only complaint is the crapy headset but that is a minor issue.

Cause you'd have to put in a huge harddrive..

[Anonymous Coward]

To spool TV so that you could pause/rewind/fast forward. Plus if you provide actual media capture technology the XBox has to have a suspend mode, so that it can wake up to record something. Plus you need to deal with the possible system load of recording TV while someone is trying to play a game on it. You can't reduce the resources available to the game because TV is being recorded, the games are designed to be the only thing running on the box, and the expect 100% of the resources to be available. At the same time, if you're throttling the TV Recording, you're ruining that experience as well.

This method makes WAY more sense, you have a dedicated Media PC that handles the scheduling, recording (with up to 4 tuners) and playback which is connected to your Main Entertainment system in the Family Room. You store all of your media there, and the kids can use their XBox/XBox 360 in the Rec Room, or in their bedroom to stream any of the content off of the Media Center PC or setup a recording if they're playing PGR3 and don't want to stop.

It's Time to get Rid of Network Transparency

[eno2001]

It looks like Microsoft is headed down the same old road that the Unix zealots have gone down before: GUI network transparency a la X Windows. This is bad bad bad news. As everyone on Slashdot who knows always sez: "Get rid of network transparency. It makes GUIs slow because all GUI traffic needs to go over the network even for local appz!!"

The X Windows people made the horrible mistake of implementing network transparency in their GUI back in 1984. No one uses it. No one wants it. No one likes it. All it does is make GUIs slow. Instead they should have been working on making X Windows part of the kernel as is the rallying battle cry of the GUI experts on Slashdot. Can you imagine how things would be now if X Windows has been made part of the kernel and didn't have network transparency??

So now Microsoft has made the same horrible mistake in presenting remote GUI input and output via NETWORK TRANSPARENCY in their windowing system. This is bound to make things horrible and slow. The only benefit they have is that their GUI is part of the kernel as it should be. What are we going to do now? Oh woe is me. I shake my head.

Re:It's Time to get Rid of Network Transparency

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I get that you're being sarcastic, but what was the actual joke there?

Re:It's Time to get Rid of Network Transparency

[imroy]

Mod parent Funny! It's satirical :)

Re:It's Time to get Rid of Network Transparency

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have to ask, you'll never get it. Mod OPP hilarious!

too crippled for me

[YesIAmAScript]

You can't stream any video to the thing except if you use Windows Media Center Edition. That's BS. You can stream audio, but not video. And if you have, you still can only stream stuff that was approved to be streamed (from what I can tell).

I do like the 360, but there's zero chance I'll be using it to replace XBMC, they simply crippled it too much.

I'm very disappointed. I really do think MS kept the customer in mind a lot when designing the 360. But not letting me stream videos I have to it, only stuff I recorded on Windows Media Center or was approved to be streamed is a real slap in the face.

The most capable think you can put next to your TV, and yet it can't do much because of DRM/software limitations.

It can't even play Plays For Sure stuff as far as I can tell (the manual even says so!).

about the unstableness..

[VoiceOfRaisin]

mine broke a week ago. the 3 flashing red light syndrome. nothing worked, i tried all of the crazy ideas people were posting, it would just not boot.
last night i thought id try giving the unit a quick smack on the side of it. well you know what? its been working perfectly ever since.. theres definately something loose, something thats come loose from the expansion/contraction from the heat this thing makes. so anyone out there might want to try this method of bringing it back from the dead. oh and it also figures that today my packing box to send it back finally arrived from microsoft. i think i will be keeping it until it dies again tho.

Re:about the unstableness..

[Anonymous Coward]

A week ago, huh? That's pretty impressive, considering that the console didn't launch until Tuesday

Re:about the unstableness..

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol, the three red lights means you have not put the video cable in securely. Come on now, push those cables in people!

Re:about the unstableness..

[VoiceOfRaisin]

yes a week ago, i won it and had it OVER a week before launch. dont assume idiot.

Re:about the unstableness..

[oscartheduck]

I used to repair VCRs. As soon as one came in, the first thing we did was verify it didn't work. If it didn't, the second thing we did was lift it six inches and drop it, turn it on and see if it worked now. If it did, that's an hour's work and an easy sixty bucks. If that didn't work, we opened them up and sprayed them with compressed air, tried to see if it came on. If it didn't, look for an obvious cause, if no obvious cause then you bill the manufacturer on the warranty for a new VCR and consider the matter settled.

Never underestimate how often a six inch drop will do the job.

Re:You guys are such fags

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll rather be a fag than brainless entertainment consumer.

TiVo possibilities with next gen consoles?

[jdev]

I wonder if Sony or Nintendo would ever be interested in partering with TiVo to do something similar? You can currently download programs from your TiVo to your computer and watcht them in Windows Media Player. If the TiVo format is mostly some variation of mpeg, it should be trivial to set up the consoles so they could play it. They would just need hard drives for storage and a simple interface to connect to TiVo's on your LAN. (Does the Revolution have plans for a hard drive?) That could be a good way for TiVo to differentiate it from the other PVR's out there.

What about the iPod?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm getting sick and tired of people bashing the 360 for "constantly crashing"

Same here. To put things into perspective, MacInTouch has the results up for a reliability survey of the iPod. The iPod models with the highest failure rates are:

iPod 10 GB Scroll Wheel - 21.5%
iPod 5 GB Scroll Wheel - 23.0%
iPod 30 GB Dock Connector - 24.0%
iPod 40 GB Click Wheel - 29.9%

The worst model has a reported failure rate of almost 30%! Yet somehow Apple seems to still be doing well, people still want to buy iPods. But when it coems to Microsoft, Slashdot can't wait to post every negative story they can find. It must take a lot of effort to hate so much. Yes, I get that Slashdot doesn't really like Microsoft.. so shut the fuck up and ignore them.

Re:What about the iPod?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quoting a very small snippet from a worthless self-selected survey is hardly "+1, Informative".

Re:What about the iPod?

[ikea5]

To put things into perspective.

Um, it's a survey, A SURVEY!!! talk about perspective... and to quote the link "Many readers acknowledged damage or accident as the cause of failure. Dropped iPods, followed by immediate or gradual failure, are common." You are an idiot if you belive some ipods has 30% failure rates.

Re:What about the iPod?

[ozmanjusri]

The worst model has a reported failure rate of almost 30%! Yet somehow Apple seems to still be doing well, people still want to buy iPods.

Funny how those numbers are so close to 100%, isn't it. Do you think you might've misinterpreted those stats just a little?

Re:What about the iPod?

[Generic Guy]

The worst model has a reported failure rate of almost 30%! Yet somehow Apple seems to still be doing well, people still want to buy iPods.

But iPod scroll wheels are not failing at those levels brand new within minutes out of the box.

Based on various polls around the 'net (for some semblence of fairness I won't use any single one) Xbox 360 appears to be crashing/breaking at levels of 12-16% on the first day of use. That is double digit product failure of a brand-new flagship product for Microsoft, and certainly beyond their claim of "a few problem units". Of course the press is going to be all over it, especially after all the ridiculous hype leading up to the release date.

I haven't seen a product perform this badly since the notorious Sharper Image Steam Wizard.

How it works

[BillBrasky]

For those wondering, it's an extension on the RDP protocol used by Microsoft Remote Desktop Connection. Audio and Video are sent in sideband channels: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url= /library/en-us/medctrsdk/htm/mediacenterextenders. asp

Re:How it works

[oPless]

cool, only a matter of time til rdesktop implements it :o)

seriously tho, I'm still waiting for a FOSS rdesktop server istead of vnc :(

Re:How it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Not likely to be seen outside of licensed extenders and Vista Ultimate any time soon. There is a smartcard chip in use that keeps the traffic completely encrypted, and the video is proprietary (MPEG2 with a proprietary Microsoft candy shell).

My Experiences with HTPC stuff with the 360

[agressiv]

I have an MCE machine that I use as a gaming machine downstairs in my basement, and did not want to keep the PC in the living room. I don't use the TV tuners (I have an HD DirectTivo) so all the MCE box does is stream music and movies to my TV. I had my movies encoded to the Nero Digital format here which worked well. I could even get those files to play in MCE (although seeking did not work at all, much less chapter seeks) so I generally used the Nero player.

I was hoping I could do something, at least, with these files, on the XBOX 360. Well, needless to say, they aren't supported (it doesn't work) and pretty much the only thing I could get to work that I had was an WMV file. Heck, even a DVD, ripped to the hard drive, which worked in MCE, does NOT work on the XBOX360. Gave a message like "sorry, you can't do this over a remote desktop connection". Looks like its using the RDP protocol to stream sound and video.

Well, after some figiting, I got a movie encoded to WMV and it worked fine, once I mucked with the aspect ratio. Too bad the encoder is slow as heck, Nero's was much faster. Saw some interlacing problems with the final copy as well, but thats probably just pebkac.

agressiv

america is good for something after all...

[dr_labrat]

Well, just as well America is testing ts own products out on itself before shunting out over here to Europe...

I am sure I will buy one, but thank Jeebus it will have been fixed by the time we get it over here.

Re:america is good for something after all...

[Tony Hoyle]

Possibly not... it's probably the same design.

Some of the local shops now have signs explaining about the crashing problems, and saying that xboxes with the problem will be exchanged on request... their presales were presumably dropping off with the widely publicised problems.

Read.

[Anonymous Coward]

The post linked is the original author. Or at least claims to be.

It'll come

[Namarrgon]

That would mean making a PowerPC-compatible version of Windows

What do you think the Xbox 360 is running right now?

If I want the MCE options I'll pay for them.

Indeed. I fully expect to see a USB2-connected tuner box (with matching styling) with a software disc (possibly installable) that allows local recording & playback. What better way to also sell larger add-on HDDs?

Doubt it'd record TV shows while you're playing games - but it would while you're watching TV of course. I can imagine it might be popular with college students or those with limited space.

Compatibility over different archs?

[Stu L Tissimus]

I've seen the reply to this saying that this is an extension of the RDP protocol, but I just noticed something: Think X360 would be able to run normal, x86 Win32 executables? Apparently it's based off a stripped-down Windows kernel... And seeing as it can emulate older Xbox x86 games, think it could do the same for, say, terminal applications that don't really rely on the Win32 API?

Home Entertainment Hack

[el_womble]

I used to own an XBox. I got a lot of joy out of that little box, right up until the thing exploded. It was my own fault. I'd installed the modchip myself, and let my girlfriend touch it (it's like letting women on boats - a bad omen). The games were good, but what made the thing essential was being able to watch my DivX on my computer over a network cable.

At the time the XBox went bang I was in middle of 4 months of unemployment and replacing it was the lowest of my priorities (honest). As a substitute I used a wireless TV forwarder (that I already had) to get the stream direct from iMac G5 to my TV.

This isn't nearly as good a solution:

• Screws with the WiFi
• Much lower quality
• Prone to interfance (from meat bags walking around)
• Significantly more complicated... no really its beyond my girlfriend, and she's normally pretty savvy
• No remote control. You can use Salling Clicker, but it interferes with the signal
• Renderes my iMac useless for the duration... a problem when what its being used for is our PVRs of Laguna Beach... god I hate that show

Being able to use XBox Media Centre or equivalent is an essential aspect to my decision for which console I will buy next. I just wish you didn't have to mod the box to be able to use it... seems like a massive oversight.