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Grokster Launches Fear Campaign
An anonymous reader writes "Slyck is reporting on Grokster's new scare tactic. Suddenly it's become taboo to head over to Grokster.com. In a transparent attempt to scare potential P2P users, Grokster.com has reinforced its anti-P2P sentiment. The visitor's IP address is clearly displayed in large font on the Grokser's homepage while indicating the address was logged."
Isn't it common to log an Ip address if you run a website? I do it all teh time
Good thing he's a lawyer...
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Grokster is unlawfully using technology from this site!
http://danasoft.com/sig
If its so bad.... How come they created it in the first place. Looks like Grokster(along with sharman) is more scared of the RIAA then we are of it logging "our" ip addresses.
Obviously we have to slashdot it. Why is there no link in the story?
Here: for those too lazy to type it out
Grokster.com
It should read...
The way they worded it makes it sound like it is even illegal for people to distribute their own materials that they have created themselves via P2P. So, I guess according to the powers that be, I'm now a criminal for using Gnutella to distribute my own stories and animations that I have created, and to which I own the copyrights.
Of course, it isn't illegal, but the way these warnings are worded can sometimes make it seem that way.
This space unintentionally left blank.
SlashDOT 'em
Log this bucko
http://www.grokster.com/
Give'm hell boys!
Gone to my happy place.
This reminds me of those banner ads that have freaked out so many (l)users in my family that bounce around saying "Your Computer Is Broadcasting an IP Address" as though the number is your SSN. I would guess (based on how many people I know who bought the software advertised by those banner ads) that this will probably scare a lot of people into compliance.
Another thing that I've noticed is that a lot of the same people who would be freaked out that a site knows their IP address ALSO tend to not realize that downloading stuff via P2P networks is not exactly legal.
I remember recently (like within the last couple of weeks) my aunt expressed amazment that all of the music downloading they had done was considered piracy. She'd also never heard of iTunes or any other way of buying music legally online.
It might be nice if they at least provided some links to places to legally get music for the people who genuinely don't know. For everyone else the whole thing is pointless anyway.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Humph, 99% of the world population is outside the USA & could not care less.
Slightly off topic - I followed the Grokster link to www.respectcopyrights.com, and I *LOVE* this bit of argument for why you shouldnt pirate movies: "And last but not least, you're cheating yourself out of the movie experiance!" What - I'm cheating myself out of sky high movie ticket prices, jackasses who wont shut up during the movie, numbnuts with C-phones, screaming children at an R rated movie, and half an hour of commercials before the previews? And youre trying to convince me NOT to pirate a movie? Yeah, keep it up fellas - youre doing a REAL good job.
Oh, I'm quite sure it's logged - I leave logging enabled on my apache boxes also. And honestly, I don't care: even if they weren't currently being bombarded by mad slashdotters, my browser quite properly sent along a referred-by (because I haven't told it not to) that clearly says I went there by clicking on the story linked in TFA. So, assuming they actually chase down each and every one of the 250K uniques they get this evening and attempt to prosecute, it'd be trivial for me to show that I was not visiting grokster as an attempt to obtain software that's not being used lawfully, but rather as general interest following a news story where it led me.
In other words: what-evah!
political_news.c: warning: comparison is always true due to limited range of data type
I actually hope about half the planet does. ;o)
--
Tomas
What are they trying to gain by scaring their users away, anyway.
Why don't they just close up shop and be done with it.
And there was me thinking that there was no possible way for the website to know which IP was requesting page data, and so where to send it.
Shock horror...
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
This is the same industry that sells Slap My Bitch Up and Been Caught Stealin then expects people to follow copyright law to the letter.
Hypocrites.
They might have my IP, but I have theirs too! MUWAHAHA!!
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
I think I'll head over to their page now and start clicking the refresh button over and over. I encourage everyone else to do the same.
It's not about knowing the public IP of the machine that issued the http request.
It's about sending lies and propaganda to the uneducated users.
We do know that visiting a site tells them about the IP address -- your, your proxy's or a random TOR server's; and also your browser's ID string which usually mentions your operating system.
But we, users who are knowledgeful about how this works, are not those who are the intended target of this scare campaign. Just as those who know how a washing powder works are not a target of most TV adverts.
People who are knowledgeful about washing powders balk at nonsence spewed in adverts, but this doesn't stop the nonsense from affecting 99% of the society.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
The context is the same as it has always been for the RIAA. In other words, every content protection measure (for that's all this is) is aimed at the people who are clueless about the law and the technology, and can be easily intimidated by such means. Unfortunately, that means we are talking about the bulk of the population of most countries ... fortunately, because most P2P users are clueless they're pretty hard to intimidate anyway since they have no idea what they're doing.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
The part of this that's interesting is not that they know how to display IPs. It's that they choose to do so in an attempt to scare us that's worth mentioning.
We traced the call... He's calling from inside your house!
They're hosted at ev1servers.net, meaning they're hosting this on a budget dedicated server.
The domain also resolves to s1.avres.net and avres.net.
They are running SSH-1.99-OpenSSH_3.6.1p2 on port 22.
They are running an internet-visible MySQL 3.23.58 server on port 3306.
They have port 21 (FTP) open and accepting connections, but disconnecting a second later
While SMTP (port 25) is closed, they are running an unidentified POP3 server on port 110.
They are running Apache 2.0.46. The box identifies itself as running RedHat, most likely RHEL3.
Amazing what you can find out by telnetting to a few common port numbers, no?
grokster.com is much easier to type than whatismyip.com. A real timesaver, that is, if I hadn't already memorized it. Thanks anyway RIAA!
Two Roommates and a Boyfriend, updates Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
Mod parent up! Of course no one here is scared. Think about the clueless masses who don't even know what an IP is. All they'll see is "YOU HAVE BEEN LOGGED FOR VISITING THIS SITE".
"The IP address, or Internet Protocol, is the unique numerical identifier assigned to each computer connected to the Internet."
It's hardly unique, except if you consider it to be 0-dimentional.
Many computers can have the same ip at different times. Also many computers can have the same ip at the same time within the same network. Indirectly, in hacking cases, even two computers can have the same ip at the same time and not really be in the same network. Well, even one computer can have some different ips assigned to it... or even many networks connected to the same computer... I could go on multiple people using the same computer... or many.
Ugh... this is funny, now even I don't know if I'm being insightful, informative, or if I'm trolling some modern physics.
We're suing all of Scotland!
You can pay us in whisky.
Your fiendly RIAA lawyer.
For that matter, it's hardly illegal to visit a a P2P website (especially one which now has nothing on it) or use P2P software. That's like trying to scare somebody by telling them you saw them walk past a crack house that's been shut down anyway.
Coral Cache
Nice to see that they're checking the X-Forwarded-For header...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
It's pretty much the same wording as that which appeared on another p2p site that was shut down last year - I can't remember which. But they got busted and something very similar to this message apppeared. Was it demonoid?
I actually read evilservers.net ...
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
The whole point of the exercise is for you to realize you'll spend the least money by settling, no matter what the facts of the case are. Lawyers like settlements, since they don't have to do as much work and they still get paid.
In the end it costs you minimum a couple grand to be sued even if you win, unless you can prove that was the intent of the suit. Good luck on that one - judges, former lawyers all, are in no hurry to discourage the filing of lawsuits. You'll pretty much need a memo that says "let's sue them until they run out of money, even though we don't have a case." Anyone who can pass the bar exam is too smart to write a memo like that.
In more civilized countries they have "loser pays" systems to discourage this sort of thing, but that's why lawyers donate millions to political campaigns, isn't it?
Isn't it common to log an Ip address if you run a website?
It is. Wouldn't their approach be much more effective if, in addition to logging your IP, they also installed a rootkit on your machine? That's legal, right? (And maybe they could make it so you're violating the DMCA if you remove it. Excellent.)
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Hmmmm. I hope that they try to 'catch' me from this IP address. Especially as it is one of the transparent proxies of my ISP which is located in a seperate city to the one I reside in. To give them a fighting chance of 'catching' me, my name is David Smith, I was born in Lancashire in the 1970's, I'm 6'0" tall, I have long dark brown hair and a beard, I'm slightly overweigh because of Christmas (yeah right) but most importantly I'm not scared of rudimentary, ill-thought-out script gimmicks from another continent.
I'll expect the black helicopters to descend on me later today then...
Folks, I'd now like to direct you to a wonderful little extension for firefox called, "Reload Every". You can set it to reload every second. You can go to the extentions section of spread firefox and do a search on 'reload every'. There are two results. It is the second. Now, some would use this power for evil, but, noone here. Right? Wow, I wonder how a bunch of slashdotters using this at www.grokster.com would go? Hmm. Not much, but I bet the logs could get messy.
Hitting refresh is so 20th century.
Don't have to much fun at www.grokster.com now.
>It's about sending lies and propaganda to the uneducated users.
Agreed and this tactic is hardly new. I remember back when I saw a popup one of them used to say "WARNING YOUR MACHINE MAY BE BROADCASTING YOUR IP ADDRESS!" or something like that.
Scare-tactic sponsored by Grokster by logging your IP and mentioning it: 18 unique clicks
Slashdot story posting that mentions said scare-tacting: 182,395,483 unique clicks in 8 hours
102mb log file and an $8000+ bandwidth overage charge: priceless
There are some things scare-tactics can do. For everything else, use Google.
(I'll laugh when they try to open that log file in notepad before checking it's size...)
This message brought to you by Jack Schitt's Previously Shat Shit
My question is...
Will they sue China?
Believe with me, my saplings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grokster
People who are knowledgeful about washing powders balk at nonsence spewed in adverts
What?? Do you mean there is no scrubbing bubbles? I just can't believe you. These tiny little guys looks soooo cute!
--
Krazy Kat
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Am I the only one who thinks the RIAA/MPAA "wrote" that message?
Grokster sold out all their assets to Mashboxx (including their domain).
Mashboxx itself is a sham RIAA front company that pitches itself as "the world's first P2P application with content authorized by major record labels". Which is a total load, considering they don't even have a client available to the public.
So, in short, this is all nothing but a marketing ploy driven by smoke, mirrors, and fear. What else were you expecting from the RIAA?
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Isn't it 1 Infinite Loop; Cupertino, CA 95014?
I'm at 127.0.0.1 ...
The 1% in the USA, strangely, could care less.
Ok.
One cannot forge an IP address for an established TCP connection.
Wrong. You need to be on an L2 net between the forged sender address and recipient address, at which point it's trivial. But generally more trouble than it's worth.
There is one way one can sort of forge IP addresses, but this technique is more accurately termed as hijacking. Spammers have been known to do this, they abuse BGP which automaticly queries neighboring routers for the networks they manage, and then use this date to decide where to route packets.
No. I don't know where you get the term "hijacking" and spammers don't have any claim over this technique. Injecting more-specific routes into BGP to divert traffic away from where it should be going is a drastic maneuver that can take any site on the web down. It requires having access to a router at a major NAP or within a network that peers with other major networks without filtering. That's not simple and I don't know that it's happened very often, if at all.
One could also hijack a users connection or computer using malware, or alternatively you could perhaps intercept their DSL line between their house and the ISP.
I don't know what you mean by "intercept their DSL line". You can't tap a DSL line.
And finally, there are ways to mask, or make it diffuclt to find one's originating IP, this can be done by bouncing your TCP connection through one or more servers. Serious hackers use this technique, so for example, a hacker in Russia connects to a server in Brazil, then from Brazil to a server in Europe, and finally from that server in Europe through to the U.S. server he hacks.
"Serious hacker"? I don't know what a serious hacker is. There are so many compromised boxes out there, on cable modem / DSL networks, in universities and other institutions, that anyone who wants to cover their tracks and knows the right people can simply hop from machine to machine. I don't know if this is what you mean by "bouncing your TCP connection"; that seems to imply your packets are hopping from one place to another, when in fact you're logging into one place, then to another, then to another, etc., the final connection being made from a machine which is not your own and any trace efforts requiring the participation of every machine in the path you created to get there.
The way you forgot to mention is the use of an open proxy that doesn't log, of which there are dozens out there.
http://www.grokster.com/?I_buy_my_cds_used_from_pa wn_shops_and_save_money_instead_of_giving_it_to_th e_rich_music_artists_my_ip_address_is_24_83_69_104
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
We're the MPAA. Our profits are slipping. What's the problem?
Maybe $10 for a movie ticket, $7 for a tub of popcorn, $5 for a soda or candy bar is a little much. Nah, couldn't be it.
Maybe laser pointers, cell phones and chatty kathies are ruining the experience. Nah, couldn't be it.
Maybe big-screen TVs make watching movies at home more enjoyable. Nah, couldn't be it.
Maybe showing 15 commercials before the movie starts is a little obnoxious. Nah, couldn't be it.
Maybe we're putting out absolute drivel that no one in their right mind would sit through. Nah, couldn't be it.
Maybe it's the online pirates, sucking down our profits over high-speed Internet connections. Yes, that's it! That's why no one goes to the movies anymore!
Call the lawyers!
Now I want to hear more about washing powders!
I remember creating a list of CDs I wanted. They'd be prioritized. Some CDs would have multiple songs on them I liked; I'd buy those first. Others would have only one song.
Every once in a while, I'd splurge. I'd create a "mix tape", which was in fact a cassette tape with several singles recorded on it (yes, I'm old). This would require plunking down $15 on several CDs with only one song on it I like. Creating a mix tape like that would require somewhere in the neighborhood of $300. That was the only option to get those singles I enjoyed.
The RIAA had it good for years by monopolizing the means of distribution. Then the Net stepped in and I haven't forked down a penny for a CD in years. It started with FTP servers and search engines (remember share ratio?), migrated to Napster, then to the other P2P networks that operate without a central authority. I don't feel a speck of a guilt. The RIAA has been paid in full, as far as I'm concerned. In fact, they owe me.
This loathesome bullying is typical of an industry that was jerking the public around for years and now is getting it back in spades. I'm glad. Let us eat cake.
That is a direct result of big government. In the US there are now so many laws, and the system is so complex and ambiguous, that it is literally impossible for an innocent man to defend himself. What's more, it is literally impossible for a man to be 100% law-abiding.
Imagine that -- an innocent man cannot possibly defend himself without hiring a professional to decipher the law. A system where there are so many laws that everyone is a criminal in one way or another. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I reckon we're looking at the holy grail of "justice" for the power elite.
Lawyer: Your honor, we want you to award us 1 million dollar in damages for copyright infringement against the defendant.
Jduge: Indeed, do you have any evidence of this charge?
Lawyer: Of course, the defendant visited a website!
Jugge: and?
Lawyer: AND we logged his IP!
Judge: and?
Lawyer: and? your honor I don't understand, we got his IP!!!
Judge: yes but what do you alledge the defendant did.
Lawyer: he visited our site!
Judge: and downloaded copyrighted material wich the original copyright owner did not give him permission to do?
Lawyer: wha? He visited our site!
Judge: That is not actually illegal you know. In fact I can see only one criminal act and that is your site records personal information without a privacy statement.
Lawyer: ah.
Judge: Indeed.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Maybe we just don't want u in our neighborhood.
Your kidding me, right? You think that people, press included, have only known about NSA unwarrented wiretaps for the past year or so? A quick search of google groups shows usenet postings about Eschelon and Carnivore going back to the early 90s. The problem is that when you try to explain to most people what the ramifications of programs like these are, they generally either sort you into the 'tin-foil hat' crowd, or feel that if it does exist, it is 'Necessary'. What we are experiencing now is main stream coverage of old news. Then again, most people don't grasp the concept that their cell phone is a radio transmitter and not equivelent to a wired telephone, either.
Actually, the real reason you sue the doctor, hospital, and nurse simultaneously is as follows.
Suppose I go in for an operation, and it goes wrong. I don't know who or why, but somebody screwed up. I decide to just sue the surgeon. We litigate, he wins. Then I find out it was the nurse's fault for not doing something she should've done. In federal courts (and I think most state courts), I can't then sue the nurse for the botched operation. When I sue somebody, I have to make all claims arising out of the same transaction or occurence (here, the operation) or lose them forever. This is actually an efficiency rule, since it prevents one jerk from bringing up dozens of successive lawsuits until he wins. The courts want to hear a dispute and resolve it with finality.
In fact, this rule hurts plaintiffs, since all of a sudden they have to face down a literal army of defense lawyers; they can't divide and conquer.
The "loser pays" system certainly has its merits, but consider one of its main drawbacks: legal stagnation. When a plaintiff might get stuck with the total bill, he's more likely to not sue. Since courts can only decide the cases before them, the law develops and adapts as a result of actual cases; fewer cases means it won't keep up with the times as quickly. Many people here already think the law is too slow to adapt (especially in the tech sector), so a loser pays system would only make things worse in this regard.
Judges are indeed not thrilled with frivolous lawsuits. For one, each new suit means more work for them, and they're not paid by the case. Two, frivolous cases often don't present real and interesting legal issues; presiding over the frivolous case eats into the time a judge can spend on more interesting cases. There's a federal rule against filing frivolous or harassing lawsuits, and courts have great leeway to come up with creative punishments for violating that rule (Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 11).
IANAL(yet)
For the same reason that we don't spell color as colour, and labor as labour....
It looks funny the other way...
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
World population is hardly relevent anyway. 95% of the world population is outside the U.S., but only 55% of the active Internet user population is outside the U.S. Not that I'm bragging or anything.