The Year of the HTPC

An anonymous reader writes "While home theater PC hardware was once limited to a few specialized companies, those days are long gone and home theater computing is now big business. At this year's CES every hardware company, no matter their size or area of interest, brought a some cool new products too and no one forgot about the burgeoning home theater market. This fervor for home theater PCs was evident all over the show, but it mainly manifested itself in computer cases. This article goes over an extensive list of the products seen there."

Comments

Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[IntelliAdmin]

Any discussion of home theater PCs needs to start with the open source solution Myth TV It works with open standards - unlike the Media PC from Microsoft that keeps you from doing just about anything with your recorded shows.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[dada21]

unlike the Media PC from Microsoft that keeps you from doing just about anything with your recorded shows.

Except watch them.

I've run MCE from day 1. I have a great HT-LAN at my homes, and it never fails. I'm very happy, so is the wife.

I've tried Myth on 7 platforms over the past 2 years or so. Ugh. Frustration on top of anger. No thanks.

I hear they've come a long way, so I'll try again soon. I'm a geek, and the problems I've had were commonly found on forums -- without solutions.

MS' MCE tech support has fixed all my glitches over the phone in a day or less.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[drewzhrodague]

You must not have actually tried MythTV, and only thought you did. I generally only have junk equipment around, bad tuner cards, and other weird crap. Every single time I install MythTV, from KnopMyth, it works like a charm -- no compiling of kernels, no wacky config changes. MythTV recommends the PVR-250, which I haven't bought yet. Still, it works using one of those El Cheapo ATI tuner cards, even if it is a little slow. And you had trouble?

You can always talk to Microsoft technical support!

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Agent Green]

Bah. MythTV hasn't had a release in over 6 months now, and I'm not very familiar with the Linux internals to make it all work pretty.

In the meantime, I'll save the cash from my time by downloading and running SnapStream's BeyondTV: http://www.snapstream.com/

Ok ... it's not a Linux solution, but it runs well out-of-the-box with a large number of tuner cards and is a pretty slick-running device. Records to MPEG-2 and DivX, which is really pretty nice.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[jcostantino]

I love my MCE as well but I wish MCE would handle Divx better. I finally got around to upgrading the CPU from an Athlon 1000 to a Semperon 2400 because it was running a little unreliably at such a slow speed. Generally worked fine but would cock up in certain circumstances.

My only issues are that it doesn't like divx playback (no FF/RW), the music playlist selection is crap, and the OEM remote is total crap. I'll occasionally have to pull the batteries to short the terminals because it stops working and the volume/channel buttons are way harder to press than they should be.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Anonymous Coward]

Simply not true. I have an MCE, and an MC Extender. Works great. I routinely put shows on my iMate (after re-encoding at a more normal resolution). And sync my music to it. Only thing I don't like is that the extenders won't do AVI format, although the PC itself is ok. If I can sync tc shows, burn them to DVDs, sync music in the same interface, what more did you expect it do to?

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Xugumad]

Admittadely, I was trying to install onto a Debian installation, but I spent a weekend trying to get MythTV to work with my Hauppauge DVB-T card. In the end, it kinda worked, as long as you didn't want to change channel more than once between reboots. I'm not a professional sys-admin, but I do manage a handful of servers as part of my job, and have nearly a decade of Linux experience, so it's not just me being a newbie...

Personally, have had great success with the EyeTV (Mac) hardware/software combination, but it is horrendously expensive, and obviously not really at all useful if you want to stream video over the network.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[jimmyfergus]

... and KnoppMyth is the way to go for low effort MythTv.

The downside is that KnoppMyth is designed to have exclusive use of the whole machine (though it is Debian based so you can add whatever extras you like), but the upside is it just works with simple installation for most people, most of the time. I tried to add MythTv to my SuSE server box 18 months ago, and was losing the will to live. Dug out another machine, installed KnoppMyth, and literally had it working within an hour.

The Hauppauge PVR-350 card allows MythTv to run on a very slow machine, like a PII (taking the decoding effort away from the CPU), and gives good quality output, but from personal experience I wouldn't recommend it. You're restricted to mpeg2 so disk usage is high and downloaded videos have to be transcoded to play, you can't play games or have pretty music visualizations, and sound is a minor configuration headaches. Worst, the drivers are the flakeyest bit of my setup (video lock-ups about once a month) and it's relatively expensive. Better to just buy a cheapo encoder card known to work with MythTv, and use TV-out from a normal video card.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[batkiwi]

Here's all it took to get it working for me with a DVB-T card in australia:

1. install ubuntu (default preferences, all it asked me was for a username and password)
2. add (via gui, easy to do) the "universe" and "multiverse" repositories (a click list is already there)
3. go to software installer, tell it to grab "mythtv"
4. run mythtv-setup, give it the names of my channels and so on
5. enjoy

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[aztracker1]

I've been using the niveus remote for mine, was a bit of a pain to get it configured, but usable for the tv, stereo etc.. I am using digital out to my receiver, and have the vol at 100% in mce, then mapped the volume/mute on the remote for all devices to use the receiver's volume.. works well..

running an athlon 64 2800+ (754, got it cheap) with a last-gen nvidia motherboard, using an mx440 and the evga tv card, was mainly a cheap test to see if I would like it. Honestly, love it, upgrading to a more a/v friendly case (now using an antec black minitower) and adding the 2 input card, and want to figure out a satelite solution for it as well...

Don't seem to have issues with DivX playback though.. kinda irks me I can't play quicktime files in the media center panel though... would love an integrated other program entry for mame/nes emulators etc... that's a side issue. MCE's interface is much slicker than MythTV though, not sure how much effort it would take for myth with my current hardware if at all possible, I'm pretty content with MCE, a few friends are running myth.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[CompressedAir]

What an irritating post.

MythTV (from Knoppmyth) gave me plenty of trouble installing it. I solved all the problems I had (with help from the forums) but the total installation was about a day. Your implication that MythTV installation is simple enough that you have a right to insult those who had trouble with it makes me doubt whether YOU have actually tried MythTV.

I will say this: MythTV is incredible for something you get for free. I hope it continues to develop to the point that I would use it instead of SageTV.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Anonymous Coward]

divx playback (no FF/RW)

which is handled by the codec via Direct Show,
if it (the player aka WMP core) wont ff/rw try installing FFDShow and use that for handling DivX/Xvid
i have had no problems with MCE and DivX/Xvid/mpg.
sometimes if an .AVI file hasnt been "indexed" (a process that should of been done at creation,missing for various reasons) ff/rw can be either be non existant or very slow, rebuilding the avi with something like DivFix (google it) can fix this

regards

Aj$

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[drinkypoo]

If it makes you feel any better, XBMC on Xbox has problems FF/REW MPEG4 movies, too. Granted, that has a P3-733...

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[captain_craptacular]

MythTv and cool new cases are great but IMHO it won't be "The year of the HTPC" until someone comes out with a cablecard v2 capable, hdtv capable capture card. Right now you're basically SOL if you want to capture anything but over the air HD content (which rules out a lot of great programming). If you want to view digital cable (all channels are digital in my area) or satelite you need a STB and some sort of IR blaster (none of which are elegant). And you can't get HDTV that way, even if the STB decodes HDTV, you're capture card will only capture SDTV.

What this market needs to REALLY take off and make the HDPC useful is a tv capture card that you can drop your cable card into and be 100% functional without a set top box. Unfortunately this will basically never happen because it flies in the face of DRM.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Phillup]

If you have the *right* equipment, a knoppmyth install takes less than an hour. (on my 700MHz P3)

Start with a PVR-250 and go from there.

I can easily imagine being similarly frustrated with the MS equivalent if you have unsupported hardware... so, I think it really depends on matching the software and hardware.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Anonymous Coward]

Version 4 of snapstream sucks. HDTV shutters to a point that it is not viewable. It's a known problem that many people when out and made a purchase, only to be very disappointed.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[captain_craptacular]

Unless you want to do something useful. Like watch more than OTA or non-digital programming. In which case you'll have to set up an IR blaster. That's going to quadruple the 1 hour estimate at least. Then if you want to add a second tuner which you also want to do something useful add another couple hours.

Don't get me wrong. If you want a single tuner MythTV box which only needs to capture non-digital cable or OTA broadcast you can have it inside an hour. But the learning curve is steep after that. I have 2x pvr-150 each using it's own blaster to drive a cable box so I can watch more than 12 of my 200 channels. I have well over 40 hours invested in the setup and it's still not perfect.

To be fair, none of the windows solutions (beyondtv, sagetv) I looked at could accomplish this at all, so I guess I can't complain too much.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[lakin]

I faithfully used MythTV for a year or so, trying releases, CVS versions, etc. Generally, my experience was good. The linux side was a little fiddly - until recently the kernel didnt have have built in drivers for my usb2 nova-t dvb tuner, but once working tended to be fine. MythTV itself however started to annoy me more and more. Most problems i fixed over time, but still a few i couldnt. I had real problems with the TV recently, granted it wasnt totally MythTV's fault (my signal is too strong, or too weak, or getting interferrence - i havent had time to properly look into it). But still, mythtv was having none of it, so i had no livetv or recording.

The most annoying is probably the feature i use most - MythVideo. As my video collection was stored on a samba share, updating was pretty slow, and i couldnt find a option to autoupdate so had to use a crude solution with scripts and directly updating the sql table. This just about worked, although still required exiting to the menu and back again to update the list.

Also, I could not get it to sort my files. As you browse down the directory list, there were a few blocks of ordered names, with a few randomly placed aswell. Near as i could tell it was not sorting the directories by their name, but by the files in them (or their subdirectories and so on). Their order in the sql table seemed to make no difference.
To make matters worse though, sometimes when a new file was added and the table was updated, a whole bunch of files would vanish from the browser. I never got around to finding out why, but it was very annoying. As far as i could tell, it wasnt a problem with my sql updating as the table would wind up exactly the same if i did it myself or asked the Video Manager to generate it.

Anyway, rant aside, i recently switched to Microsoft Windows MCE. So much easier its unbelievable. The TV signal is still a little flakey (recordings tend to work fine, but sometimes livetv struggles to get a signal), but its doing better than myth! The video browser works flawlessly, and even updates on the fly. I do have a few minor gripes with MCE too (if anyone can help with these, id be most grateful):
  - The Video Browser appears to only support the icon style view, not a list.
  - My hauppauge remote doesnt seem to work. Not a big deal, i plan to replace it with an MCE one anyway, but i thought this one should work. (This is the remote for the USB2 Nova-t, when you press any buttons the light does not flash off - it stays on red.)
  - Limited number of settings.
But i can live with those, so so far MCE is - for me - working out better than Myth.

One problem I would love help with though:
Not too long down the line, i would like to buy a couple of MCE extenders, and stick the MCE PC somewhere hidden. I dont yet have a HDTV (or a HDTV source) so can live without that, although it would be nice if i didnt need to replace these when i do make the move so HDTV support would be nice. I can even live without Divx/Xvid support as i could simply reencode to mpeg2, although the space difference would be annoying. But, so far the ones i have seen (basically just the linksys) dont support AC3 audio, which means no films! And lastly, it would be nice if it could support DVD Vobs in the Video browser like MCE does.

I dont really want to use a xbox for the job, and i dont think it solves those problems anyway. The xbox 360 would be an expensive solution and power hungry solution, even if it does solve them all. A possible solution is the Thunderbridge which apparantly supports HDTV upscaling, few other details though. I would consider small and quiet MCE boxes, but i dont think they will stream livetv from the main one.

Any ideas?

Well I have gone on for a bit asking more questions than i have replying to the parent, but I hope you can at least see that for me, MCE is working out better.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[Jack Kolesar]

MythTV hasn't had a release in over 6 months now

Purhaps you should give a look to the CVS. I've been using subversion to stay updated and currently am enjoying:

1. HDTV Support
2. HDTV Recording
3. Smoother Playback
4. Open QAM Decoding
5. And much, much more!

If you're not happy with the "Release" dates then perhaps you can help to get the next version out.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[jcostantino]

I've had much better experience using divx/mpeg on XBMC but XBMC is (at least the old version I have that I haven't bothered to update) a pain in the ass to configure and annoying to have to boot the xbox, select it from the dash, wait for it to load, etc... really as far as playing Divx for free (assuming a preexisting modded xbox) over the network on your TV, it's the only game in town.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[drinkypoo]

I use avalaunch and its first option is XBMC, so that's not that bad. You can also install XBMC as your dashboard; it does have a programs section. If you play movies more than anything else (save for playing games) then this is probably a good option for you.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[jcostantino]

That is true, I forgot that XBMC had a launcher and FTP server built in. I just wish the xbox had a power button on the remote. I suppose the fact that the 360 has one means MS didn't think the firt xbox was going to be used as a media player.

Right now I'm trying to reencode a divx file to see if that's the problem with MCE not opening them. Basically MCE starts to play it and then the file ends. I can play it in WMP on the same box so it's not the file itself... maybe it's a weird size that MCE doesn't like? I'll find out in a bit when it finishes.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[HillBilly]

MythTV is just to much work to watch TV.

I want something I install and works. I don't want to install 10 different other bits of software and nor do I want to edit the kernel for my HDTV card. MythTV has a long way to go before it deserves a place on my Hard disk.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[CaseyB]

Set up XBMC as your dash. You'll never look back: its "dashboard" functionality is just as good as all the other dashboards. It seems to boot just as fast too.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[nmos]

Unless you want to do something useful. Like watch more than OTA or non-digital programming. In which case you'll have to set up an IR blaster. That's going to quadruple the 1 hour estimate at least. Then if you want to add a second tuner which you also want to do something useful add another couple hours.

While the complexity can certainly grow if you want to do more complex things, it really isn't that bad as long as you stick to known supported hardware. I've been using Myth with DirecTV since some time in 2002. Even back then it didn't take long on Google to find a channel change script for my receiver, attach a serial cable and tell Myth to use it. Likewise getting a remote to work was easy, mostly because I spent $10 on ebay for a remote/receiver combo that was known to work with Lirc. If I'd insisted on making it work with one of my existing remotes it would have been worse. The only thing I spent too much time on was getting the TV-out function of my video card to produce a decent image and that had nothing to do with Myth. I'm not saying I'd want my mom to try to set it up but by /. standards it's not nearly as hard as you make it sound unless you make it hard by trying to use un-supported components. Once it's set up using Myth is dead easy, my wife took over ours years ago and she hates computers.

The true value of open source showed its self when I found a good deal on a hardware capture card that was supported by Linux but not Myth. I bought 2 and sent one to the author and he added support for it. I seriously doubt that any propriatary software vendor would have been so accommodating.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[The Vulture]

You're restricted to mpeg2 so disk usage is high and downloaded videos have to be transcoded to play, you can't play games or have pretty music visualizations, and sound is a minor configuration headaches.

Not true, if you have a PC with half-decent horsepower.

The latest version of the ivtv driver (0.4.1, although it was supported since the late 0.3.x series) when paired with the latest version of the Xdriver allows for Xv playback. The decoding is done in software via MythTV (or whatever other app you use) using Xv, so you're not limited to MPEG-2 playback. You can use xmame fullscreen (use -vidmod 1), with the exception of games that are higher than 720x480 (but you can work around that with -noperfect-yuv, although you might not have optimal picture quality).

The best part about using the PVR-350 output is that it properly handles interlaced and deinterlaced content. Although MythTV does have Bob deinterlacing, it really messes up the OSD (On Screen Display), making it flicker. There are no such problems with the PVR-350 output.

It seems that using the MPEG-2 decoder causes the odd lockup, but I haven't seen any lockups with the Xv driver. And there's no comparison in picture quality over my GeForce 5200FX.

Since I've been using my PVR-350, I have been living without MAME, which does kind of suck. But once X11R6.9 or X11R7 are out in RPMs for Fedora Core 4, I'm looking to do a dual-head setup with the GeForce 5200FX for xmame, and the PVR-350 for MythTV. I'm also looking forward to the ivtv team fixing the over/underscan on the PVR-350 - there should be a register in the TV-Out chip (the SAA?) that allows for scaling. I took a quick look at the datasheet and didn't see anything, but might look at it again.

-- Joe

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[carlislematthew]

I think you mean, "unfortunately, it will never happen with MythTV because it flies in the face of DRM".

But, my understanding is that Microsoft is going to be supporting DirecTV HD cards and HD cable cards. They can do this because they (kinda) protect the content after it comes out of the card. Good luck getting an opensource driver for *that*. :)

I sniff the death of opensource PVR solutions.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[illtud]

Unless you want to do something useful. Like watch more than OTA or non-digital programming.

In the UK (and lots of countries with DVB - digital terrestrial broadcasting) you can simply use a DVB card and hey presto - dozens of digital channels on your Myth box without any blaster nonsense.

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[jimmyfergus]

Excellent info - thanks. I'll look forward to getting that going. MAME would be nice, but most of all I want to be able to play UK TV downloaded from uknova...

And corrected over/underscan would be superb!

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[vogelap]

I love SnapStream. I've got it running with both a standard and a Hi-Def tuner and it's fantastic. My wife loves it too.

-drew
www.drewvogel.com

Re:Myth TV is the way to go for HTPC

[merlin_jim]

I own the PVR250.

First MythTV refused to use an NTSC-compatible timing. So I hacked it up and took out all the timings and added one that worked.

It never actually let me watch a show though. I probably spent 20 hours installing and configuring, reinstalling and reconfiguring before I gave up and installed windows.

MCE is nice but I like showshifter better. Regardless, I haven't looked back since.

XBMC

[resonance]

Microsoft sure missed the boat on this one - a chipped xbox with Xbox Media Center blows away any HTPC setup I've ever seen. Plays every format, runs happily on your network, simple to use, great interface....

Re:XBMC

[Mr._Galt]

I'll second that! XBMC is my most oft used app. I especially love the ability to stream content from my PC.....who needs TiVo? not me.

Re:XBMC

[Anonymous Coward]

But can it be somehow used to record shows? My problem is this - the PC is upstairs, and the TV is downstairs. The PC does not have access to my digital cable converter, so the video feed would have to be transfered over the network. I've looked for a solution to this setup for a while, but haven't been able to find much. (TIVO isn't available where I live, and my cable company wants about $500 for their PVR cable box)

If a modified XBox can somehow be used to transfer video TO my PC, I'm sold.

Re:XBMC

[Trejkaz]

Unfortunately, XBMC can't be used to record shows, no. That's where a real home theatre system comes in, but it's just a shame that the Xbox is about $100 whereas the full theatre system is... not.

Re:XBMC

[Brian360]

I've been planning to using 1 (or more) dedicated MythTV backends with "thinner" clients as the frontends. Has anybody ported a MythTV front-end to the X-Box (or better yet as a plugin to XBMC)? That way I could still watch live-tv with PVR functions and program guide all on the xbox. A setup like that would be sweet and very cost effective.

Re:XBMC

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the best thing $100 will ever buy for your living room.

Re:XBMC

[GWBasic]

Yeah, but can you record TV and support the new high-def DVDs on an XBOX? The HTPC will be able to replace every component except for older analoge ones like VHS, cassette, and records.

Re:XBMC

[batkiwi]

http://www.google.com/search?q=xbmc%20mythtv

It's 90% there. You cannot schedule new recordings, but I just use mythweb for that anyways.

Problems:
-livetv ringbuffer means that skip forward/back doesn't work, you have to fastforward/rewind
-if you go past "now," it stops recording and playing due to thinking you're "done" with the file
-sometimes a little flakey

Re:XBMC

[Afrosheen]

Yeah, there's an Xbox project for a mythtv frontend. Hit up google, probably the first link.

Re:XBMC

[jeffy210]

Yawn... okay, I state this evertime someone talks about a modded XBox so here we go again:

I want a HTPC that lives up to it's name... "Home Theatre" That means wide screen high-def. An xbox simply can't do that, it just doesn't have the hardware. A 700Mhz processor chokes on DivX-HD and WMV-HD. I need processing power to be able to play those and a modded xbox just can't handle it.

Re:XBMC

[Anonymous Coward]

Since nobody really has HDTVs yet, XBMC will do well enough for 90% out there

Mini

[mysqlrocks]

Most of those are pretty big. I think I'll stick with my Mac Mini as the controller for my home theater system. It does the job quite well and is quite small even with an external 250 GB HD.

Re:Mini

[Nos.]

Maybe some of these cases are better, but I haven't found a case yet that didn't make some fan noise. Eventually I put my Myth box in the basement and ran cables up to the TV. Works great, no noise from fans, but all the benefits of MythTV. Of course I can't drop a DVD into the Myth box without going downstairs, but I just keep a regular DVD player in the stand along with the other components.

Re:Mini

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of those are pretty big. I think I'll stick with my Mac Mini as the controller for my home theater system. It does the job quite well and is quite small even with an external 250 GB HD.

Don't forget the external Elgato TV tuner and external digital surround audio box if you want to call it a comparable HTPC.

Re:Mini

[timeOday]

Other than being quiet, I don't see what the Mini has going for it as an HTPC.

I think the HTPC should be the "always on" PC in the home. Mine has PCI cards for dual network ethernet (it's a router), dual video cards (the kids play on the terminal while we listen to music or watch recorded movies via TV-out), a digital sound card (better to let the stereo receiver do the D->A conversion), dual hard drives (one for files, one for backups), and an IR receiver (for remote control). Much better to have everything in a single enclosed case.

MediaPortal

[charnov]

Build your own. MediaPortal is great and coming along fast. OpenSource MCE.

http://www.team-mediaportal.com/

Re:MediaPortal

[Mr._Galt]

MediaPortal is written by the same guy(s) that did XBMC for the xbox. No suprise that its shaping up to be another great app.

Re:MediaPortal

[JoeLinux]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between MediaPortal and Myth TV? And Freevo?

Re:MediaPortal

[enrico_suave]

"Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between MediaPortal and Myth TV? And Freevo?"

MediaPortal is on windows. The other two are linux based.

All are OSS.

The main difference between mythtv and freevo is approach/architecture. Mythtv has a larger feature set (which some would call bloat) than Freevo. But I think it depends on what features and approach is important to you.

e.

Re:MediaPortal

[jacksonj04]

MediaPortal is native to Windows, MythTV is native to Linux. As for Freevo, I can't honestly say I've heard of it.

Re:MediaPortal

[westlake]

Build your own.

Three words that have given Microsoft 97% of the home PC market.

MediaPortal

Dell has all but made Win MCE its default consumer install. With Win MCE being folded into Vista, I don't see much future for the open source alternative.

In this market, you have to support DRM'd media and subscription services.

Re:MediaPortal

[swillden]

In this market, you have to support DRM'd media and subscription services.

The strength of the open source solutions may well be the fact that they don't properly support DRM. For example, I use MythTV to rip all of my DVDs, transcode them and store them on a file server so that my kids don't ruin the originals (and also so picking a movie to watch is as easy as cursoring through a menu). Assuming future DRM schemes also get broken, open source media centers will continue to provide flexibility that "proper" implementations cannot.

Re:MediaPortal

[westlake]

The strength of the open source solutions may well be the fact that they don't properly support DRM

Microsoft wants support for home file servers and downloads to portable media players. That has more or less been the sticking point in the HD media wars.

DRM isn't just about physical media, it's about iTunes, Rhapsody, Audible.com. On-line rental and subscription services of every sort. The migration to digital radio, AM/FM and TV. Myth TV offers a PVR solution for the Linux hobbyist, but an HTPC is potentially much more than a PVR.

Re:MediaPortal

[merlin_jim]

Be glad you've never heard of it - it's a piece of crap. It worked even less well than MythTV for me (see my other post in this thread for an account of that experience)

MythTV for me!

[drewzhrodague]

In spite of the ever impending arrival of computer set-tops, I have yet to see even 10% of my coworkers with a Tivo (and I work with some pretty hardcore software developers). Personally, I find more functionality from an actual PC with MythTV, that I have seen from an actual Tivo, one of those Panasonic PVRs, or the thing Comcast has been pushing on us. How come few of these manufacturers 'get it'?

Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

... one more remote for the men to play with ...

I already count 7 remotes. TV, VCR, DVD, AC, Stereo, and a couple others that I don't even know what they're for. I know - I'm not supposed to know what they're for - its a "guy thing" ... right :-(.

... next, you'll be wanting a remote so you can turn me off instead of talking to ... *click*

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

... next, you'll be wanting a remote so you can turn me off instead of talking to ... *click*

Ummm, most men want the remote to turn women ON. No off.

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but we would prefer the remote to have a functioning mute button...

Re:Oh, no!

[Nos.]

While I can sympathize (my wife has mentioned the number of remotes to me many times), you can actually reduce the number of remotes with something like MythTV. For example, you don't really need a VCR (unless you're watching old VHS tapes), a DVD player (its in your mythbox), Stereo (volume controlled by myth), CD remote (myth can happily play your mp3/ogg collection), etc.

... next, you'll be wanting a remote so you can turn me off instead of talking to ... *click*
Actually, I want a remote to turn my wife on!

Re:Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Ummm, most men want the remote to turn women ON. No off.

... not when you say "Can we talk?"

... and expecially when you say "We have to talk."

Men definitely want an OFF button for that ... Its the women who wish men would find a way, any way (but not a remote, please - I saw that movie) to turn us ON.

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Turning women on is easy. One just needs a slow hand.
The trick is getting close to a woman where she'll let you put your hand on her.

Speaking of nerds and their hands, I think I saw one of our nerd bretheren trying to solve an air-rubbic cube. (Imagine an air-guitar, well he had an air-rubbic cube.)

Re:Oh, no!

[IAAP]

Ummm, most men want the remote to turn women ON. No off.

But a mute button would be nice!

Re:Oh, no!

[geekoid]

Find a better man.
I listen to my wife, and have 1 remote that control me dvd/vcr/tv.

I am not the only guy like that.

So, get someone who respects you.

Not to be confused with "obeys your every thought and wants to listen to an endless amount of trivial yammering".

And as far as a remote to turn you on, well there is the science of teledildonics to hold you over until you get a good man.

Re:Oh, no!

[enrico_suave]

you should probably pony up for one of those cool harmony remotes and integrate all the functions into one remote. Plus it handles things better. you hit "watch TV" button and it will send all the IR commands to turn on the TV, select the appropriate input, turn on cable box, audio receiver, set that to the right input, etc... instead of fumbling with 3 or 4 remotes *shrug* I don't have one, but that's my understanding.

Re:Oh, no!

[aztracker1]

I have it all setup under 1 remote including media center... the volume works off of the receiver irregardless of which device you are using (mce, vcr, xbox etc).

Re:Oh, no!

[modecx]

Speaking of nerds and their hands, I think I saw one of our nerd bretheren trying to solve an air-rubbic cube. (Imagine an air-guitar, well he had an air-rubbic cube.)

Any chance that he may have been deaf, or possibly of Italian decent and had a bluetooth headset?

Re:Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Find a better man.
I listen to my wife, and have 1 remote that control me dvd/vcr/tv.

I am not the only guy like that.

So, get someone who respects you.

... as you pointed out, there are men like you ... the problem is, while they come with only one remote, they usually, like you, have another accessory - one wife. Unfortunately, there aren't enough men like that.

Maybe I should look into this HTPC thing and search the shopping channel for one?

Re:Oh, no!

[slaker]

There is a wonderful and beautiful thing made by Logitech, called a Harmony Remote Control. They seem very expensive (I think they start at about $75) at first, but unlike all the crappy "all in one" remotes you might've seen before, Harmony remotes really DO let you go from 7 remotes down to just one.

They attach to a PC with a USB cable, and rather than screwing around with a book of device codes, the Harmony software does an interview with you to find out what hardware you have and how you have it hooked up. When you get done, it saves that information on a user account at the harmony web site, in case your zapper gets broken or needs to be reprogrammed.

My mother couldn't do anything more than turn on TV or stick an tape in a VCR. She was scared of the collection of remotes that accumulated around my parents' TV. I got her a Harmony, which has a button that says "Watch TV". It turns on the TV, the receiver, and the satellite box, then sets the correct inputs for her and tunes the TV to "Animal Planet" for her.

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

the volume works off of the receiver irregardless of which device you are using

What is this "irregardless" of which you speak?

Re:Oh, no!

[Afrosheen]

You got it all wrong. The only button you'd need for a Woman RemoteTM is Mute. The rest of the functions are automagic.

Re:Oh, no!

[Hymer]

...and what are you doing on /. if you really are a poor woman with a remote-fixated man ?
if you are here, you are a geek... and if you are a geek you can do something about it, that's what beeing geek is about.
Some suggestions (good & bad)

• man ==> EXIT
• remote ==> EXIT
• man + remote ==> EXIT
• buy an universal remote
• build an universal voice activated remote (activated only by your voice)
• ignore the whole remote thing & let him watch football... as long as he watches TV he will not disturb your /. surfing

--
I'm starting a WOW-widow club... if someone is interested...

Re:Oh, no!

[Sebilrazen]

Ummm, most men want the remote to turn women ON. No off.
I believe the button men are looking for is MUTE.

Re:Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

..and what are you doing on /. if you really are a poor woman with a remote-fixated man ?

if you are here, you are a geek... and if you are a geek you can do something about it, that's what beeing geek is about.

If you had bothered to check my account history, you'd have seen that I created this account over a year ago (November 2004, I think - it might have been 2003) when a coworker, stayed for a day or two, then left.

Recently, a friend of mine reminded me of it, so I said "what the heck, why not give it another try?"

That doesn't make me a "geek". Sure, I know html - who doesn't nowadays? I kind of have to since my job includes making web sites and doing flash stuff. It's just a job. I don't play computer games, and I don't get all "gee whiz" over the latest hardware. The machine I'm typing this on now is about 5 years old, and it does me just fine, thank you.

Now if you had said shopping, chocolate, or lazing in bed (or the bathtub) with a really good book, I would have agreed.

Re:Oh, no!

[sharkey]

Is this what you're looking for?

Re:Oh, no!

[level_headed_midwest]

No, there needs to be several buttons:

a. A credit card disabling button for when she's at the mall.
b. A fast-forward button for when she's getting ready.
c. A mute button.
d. A stop button for when she's chewing you out.
e. A stop button for when she's nagging on you.
f. A temperature control to make her feel as warm as it actually is in the room.
g. A stop button for when she's gossiping with her girlfriends about how you have a hairy back or something else you'd rather not have everyone know.
h. Yes, that "on" button.
i. And finally, a rewind button to make her look as good as she did when she was 20.

Re:Oh, no!

[Lord Ender]

My remote is a wireless keyboard. Kinda bulky, but I never lose it :-)

Re:Oh, no!

[calibanDNS]

I've got to post to back this up. I've got a Harmony 880, and it does EVERYTHING that I need. The remote has state variables to keep up with the inputs/power status of your equipment (for devices that don't have discrete input/power commands). There user interface could be a little friendlier, and there are some minor improvements (mostly cosmetic, but a few functionality wise) that need to be made. This remote is amazing, and now my wife doesn't get as frustrated when she's using the entertainment center (there's only some much that I can make easy for her when she refuses to learn what an aspect ratio is...).

Re:Oh, no!

[PFI_Optix]

buy an universal remote

Can't stress this enough. If you've got seven remotes, that's at least four too many.

Get a good learning, programmable remote. You can find some decent ones for under $100 and it will greatly simplify your life. And if/when you have kids, there's only one remote to find. Hunting for three remotes after a toddler has swept through the living room takes longer than the movie you're trying to watch.

Re:Oh, no!

[Anonymous Coward]

Boy, I can tell YOU have never been married!

Re:Oh, no!

[Hymer]

Sorry but I never check anything... before ir is too late.
That doesn't make me a "geek"
We can fix that... just stay with us here on /. and you will enjoy reading Tänenbaum's books in your bathtub.
I have personally converted 4 or 5 people from "I don't need a computer"-state to almost-geek-state in the past few years.
...and btw. chocolate is not incompatible with beeing a geek... I consume daily 250g chocolate (preferably Toblerone) a day...
...and my oldest computer is from the pre-PC era.
--
This is an emulated sig.

Re:Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Sorry but I never check anything... before ir is too late.

Well, today might be Friday the 13th, but that doesn't mean I can't forgive you ... That doesn't make me a "geek"

We can fix that... just stay with us here on /. and you will enjoy reading Tänenbaum's books in your bathtub.

I have personally converted 4 or 5 people from "I don't need a computer"-state to almost-geek-state in the past few years.

Thanks, but no thanks :-)

...and btw. chocolate is not incompatible with beeing a geek... I consume daily 250g chocolate (preferably Toblerone) a day...

I don't know any real "geeks" outside of what I encounter in my work - we just don't have the same interests. ...and my oldest computer is from the pre-PC era.

Re:Oh, no!

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Eww ... awful formatting - my oldest pc is certainly not from the pre-PC area :-(

What it SHOULD have looked like ...

Sorry but I never check anything... before ir is too late.

Well, today might be Friday the 13th, but that doesn't mean I can't forgive you

We can fix that... just stay with us here on /. and you will enjoy reading Tänenbaum's books in your bathtub.

I have personally converted 4 or 5 people from "I don't need a computer"-state to almost-geek-state in the past few years.

Thanks, but no thanks :-)

...and btw. chocolate is not incompatible with beeing a geek... I consume daily 250g chocolate (preferably Toblerone) a day .... and my oldest computer is from the pre-PC era.

I don't know any real "geeks" outside of what I encounter in my work - we just don't have the same interests.

I guess the "Preview" button is there for a reason :-( Sorry.

Year of the content.

[Anonymous Coward]

" "While home theater PC hardware was once limited to a few specialized companies, those days are long gone and home theater computing is now big business. "

I guess it's burgeoning because of all the "home grown" content people are showing.

The burgeoning home theater market is nothing...

[Anonymous Coward]

...compared to the market for English as a Second Language courses for internet editorial staff.

That was really REALLY fast

[gillrock]

/.-ed already. :(

Re:That was really REALLY fast

[mctk]

"...the shortest distance between two points may be a straight line, but it is by no means the most interesting."

That's redundant. And it says the same thing twice.

Re:That was really REALLY fast

[Anonymous Coward]

"...the shortest distance between two points may be a straight line, but it is by no means the most interesting."

That's redundant. And it says the same thing twice.

You mean you've never encountered a gay line?

Cases

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had a HTPC for the past 3 years and recently decided to upgrade. Sadly the case was one of the hardest things to find that met my requirements. It would have been nice to see some of the cases they're coming out with. The case I bought works well, it has room for the 8 hard disks I have, has adjustable fans to keep it quiet (Very important for a HTPC), but the thing lit up like Las Vegas. It came with 6 fans, all which had 4 leds each. I had to sever the light circuitry on each of the fans which was a pain. I'm glad to see there are companies working on this, until recently, niche market.

Re:Cases

[speculatrix]

MOD PARENT UP!

I 100% agree. I have an xbox, chipped: it's clearly audible across the room, so is far from ideal, so after initial enthusiasm, it's been relegated to playing DIVX's and the occasional game.

For music, when I want peace and quiet, without the hum, I built a cheapo media centre PC from spare bits:

• Asus nforce1 integrated motherboard
• Duron 1.2GHz
• 256MB ddr
• 40GB drive

The case was quite expensive as it was a very compact very low-profile uATX case, with fold-down front, so looked OK as a piece of hifi except it was battleship grey. I spray-painted the case with black pearlescent "BMW" paint, and it looked pretty good! The power supply wasn't bad, only 150W though, so I had to keep the load down, hence no DVD, no floppy, minimal hardware etc.

However, the case's cooling wasn't too good, the PSU ran hot, and the hard drive failed (Maxtor, at a time when Maxtor's were really bad) probably partly due to being cooked. It was quieter than the xbox, so I decided to rebuild it.

So I bought an Aopen quiet PC case, which was sadly a lot bigger, but has 300W PFC & near silent power supply for just £50. A Speeze vulturespin quiet CPU fan was £6. The new Seagate FDB 80GB drive rounded it off to £80 in total. I had by now a spare better video card, Asus geForce2MX deluxe, whose S-video out was much better and means I can easily monitor the machine on the TV, and has a TV Tuner (but I don't have a TV license so it's unused). I also got a S/PDIF adaptor for an old soundblaster live value card, which feeds the home cinema, and also means I can digitally capture from satellite radio or other sources.

I'm really pleased with it, the real cost to me was less than £250, yet it's very full featured, is pretty quiet, and zero hassle.

Re:Cases

[DogDude]

The case I bought works well, it has room for the 8 hard disks I have

How does one find time to watch that much TV? More importantly, what, exactly, on TV, is even worth watching? I've been TV-free for 5+ years, and I don't miss all of the crap one bit.

Re:Cases

[Anonymous Coward]

I never thought I'd fill the 2 hard disks on my old HTPC (which totaled 570 gigs). 3 Years of stuff adds up, I've deleted several TV series just to make more room. I'm not the only one putting content on the server though. My roommates probably use the thing more than I do. We store TV series, DVDs, programs, music, games, and backup data on it as well. I'm doing raid 5 on the new server too, which was my biggest concern with the old server. I've got a lot of stuff on there I'd rather not lose now.

Re:Cases

[Anonymous Coward]

DogFucker, can't you just shut the fuck up? Isn't there some dog you'd rather be fucking?

Orb.com

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a sage TV user, but my cable company has DVR built in to the settop box and nothing competes with this. However for the PC TV tuners, Orb will record shows and allow you to stream them across the web. Plus Orb is free.

This all looks good, on the outside ...

[2TecTom]

Hey, don't get me wrong ... it's looking good. However, what about the inside? I mean, when do we get software that actually works as advertised?

Thank goodness for open hardware standards. Now, if only the software industry had some integrity. After all, if cars crashed as much as software, people would walk.

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[TheFlyingGoat]

I'm not sure your point. I've not used MythTV, but people seem pretty happy with it. I'm using Meedio, which works exactly as advertised. Once their Meedio TV software can handle more HDTV cards, I'll be looking at getting that as well. It's flexible software with an open interface that allows anyone to write plugins for it (in a variety of languages). Sure, it runs on Windows, but if you're comfortable enough running linux, you should be comfortable enough messing around with MythTV.

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[2TecTom]

Yes, Myth and a few other small scale and mostly open source multimedia apps are workable. However, the exceptions prove the rule. Currently, as far as I can see there is no commercial software that is acceptably reliable or well supported. IMHO, people have just gotten used to crap.

The last apps I used that I trusted were either Emacs or WordPerfect 5.1

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[dragon_imp]

If you're still looking for good HTPC software, that's because you haven't found SageTV (http://www.sagetv.com/).

I've used it on my home theater PC http://www.terryshometheater.com/htpc/ for almost two years.

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cannot ... breathe ... must ... use ... vi ...

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[Anonymous Coward]

You had me going until you mentioned emacs. emcas belongs in the category above labeled crap :P

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't say I liked it, just that I trusted it.

There's a vast difference between the two.

Re:This all looks good, on the outside ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, ask yourself, how many people do you know of personally, who could or would set up an HTPC using SageTV or any other comparable alternative.

Now, how many people is that compared to how many you know who couldn't build themselves a SageTV HTPC.

My point is, and was, current software is not a reliable as is hardware in the sense that when I buy HTPC hardware, open standards ensure interoperability. This same degree of design sophistication does not exist in the software world, AFAIK.

Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[Red Flayer]

"This fervor for home theater PCs was evident all over the show, but it mainly manifested itself in computer cases."

You're kidding me, right? That's like people buying cars based on how cool looks like, or people buying gaming rigs based upon how their l33t ca53 pwns... oh wait. Never mind.

Seriously, though, I want my home theater PC to be invisible. A remote control and an IR receiver on the wall next to the screen. My wife heartily agrees (I think she's the one who convinced me) -- any electronics need to be in the cabinet or in the wall.

You mean the year of no more commercials

[gasmonso]

I've been commercial free for 3 years now with my SageTv and haven't looked back!

http://religiousfreaks.com/

Re:You mean the year of no more commercials

[DogDude]

I've been commercial free for 3 years now with my SageTv and haven't looked back!

I've got ya' beat. I've been commerical free for 5 years, and setup time was -zero- and cost was $0. It's called "no TV". There's really nothing on either broadcast or cable worth watching, anyway. Everything made for TV these days is really made for morons, and I can't really stand watching any of it except for the very occasional downloaded Jon Stewart show.

Re:You mean the year of no more commercials

[Hast]

Are you Jonathan Green?

Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[Nick Gisburne]

I don't go for all this integrated malarky. I bought an overhead projector, added an LCD panel with video input, connected up my DVD player, and used a white bed sheet (oh yes) stretched out on a wooden frame (knocked together in minutes). There you go, a 6-foot wide screen, with REAL theater feel. And it only cost me £170 in total ($US 260?). Integrated my arse, I like to have hulking great machines for each and every task! I could hook up a games console but being attacked life-size creatures in shoot-em-ups would probably scare the crap out of me!

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[crlove]

But how's the picture quality?

Not being sarcastic, I really want to know...

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[mrchaotica]

$260 now, sure, but how much do the light bulbs for the projector cost (and how long do they last)?

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[Nick Gisburne]

To answer both of the above questions: the picture quality is very, very good. Just remember that when you go to the cinema it's really a different kind of picture - projection isn't at all like your TV tube. So at first I thought it wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but the addition of a white screen, er, bed sheet, it improved a lot. You're never going to get plasma screen quality, but the first thing I watched on it, as a test, was the 'fight for the dock' scene from Matrix Revolutions and I was completely blown away by it. So much so that I came back in the house (it's all set up in my big shed, sorry the site hasn't been updated) dancing around like a kid, amazed at what I'd just seen! A better screen definitely makes a lot of difference - just going from projecting onto a grey wall to a white sheet gave a big jump in quality, and I'm sure that if you go for a good, reflective projector screen (which aren't too much money either), it would help even more.

The bulbs last for 50 hours and cost around £4 each. That makes them cheap but fairly short-lived, but a 2000-hour projector bulb would cost £200, so this is comparable in price per hour. BUT of course the initial outlay is much cheaper (even a cheap projector is £600-800), and when a bulb goes it's £4 a time (loose change) not a huge wad of cash. So I can afford to get a pack of 5 for spares, and just buy a few more when I run low.

Obviously I won't be using this as a replacement for my TV, so the 50-hour life of a bulb gets me 25 movies. The bulb cost is really marginal, and almost not worth thinking about. My DVD player plays DIVX movies, so no need for a computer hook-up either.

There are a lot of web sites around explaining how to set up your own gear - just Google for 'DIY projector'. Mine was the simplest approach, but you can go further and build your own projector, at which time you can use bulbs which have a 10,000-hour life (cost=£50), so then you really can replace your TV. The more you spend, the more you get, as with anything. I'm just getting a kick out of having a 6-foot screen for less money that a CRT TV would have cost, never mind an LCD or plasma. All from those good folks at eBay, and I noticed that if you're in the US you will get a LOT more choice over the LCD panel - I had to wait a while for a good one to arrive on eBay UK.

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[Nick Gisburne]

My set-up looks a lot like this, but without the housing. Mine wasn't this cheap, but as I say it's not as easy to get a good choice of LCD panels here in the UK.

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[Pollardito]

to get the real theater feel be sure to spill liberal amounts of "buttery flavor topping" and sticky soft drinks on the floor in front of your seating. if you arrange them just right, you can really surprise your visitors when one foot is locked down tight to a sticky spot while the other foot slides out on a slippery spot.

oh, and if you're going to be watching adult films, i'd put the brakes on the "theater feel" realism right where you're at.

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[hobbesx]

Once you've got the theater up, all you have to do is just invite some people over. We've discovered the spilled drinks and food comes pretty naturally.

Re:Overhead projector + LCD panel = home theater

[Serilkath_Montreal]

I cannot even try to imagine the crappy picture you must be getting from that setup. BIG isn't the only goal of a home theater, picture and sound quality are important too you know...

htpc://what.is.this

[Anonymous Coward]

What is this, another exploitable protocol, like hcp:// ?

Various Options

[TheFlyingGoat]

There's a number of options for frontend and OS. There's obviously MythTV on Linux, Windows Media Center on Windows XP, etc. I'm personally running Meedio on Windows XP.

Before people start talking about how a Tivo and DVD player will do all the same stuff, keep in mind that there's far more applications for a HTPC. There's plugins to check weather, play games (emulation), look at traffic reports, get sports scores and highlights, and much more.

I built my HTPC for around $400 plus hard drives (I'm around 1.5TB, which holds all the TV shows I want and the movies that I own). I just built one for a friend for $1000 which included 600GB of hard drive space and 2 wireless controllers (Logitech Rumblepad 2's work great for controlling the system and playing most emulator games). The really cool part is you can upscale movies if you want. I'd like to see someone get a Tivo (+ lifetime subscription) and DVD player capable of upscaling for $1000, completely ignoring the fact that it can do so many other things.

Re:Various Options

[mgrassi99]

Wait a minute, you actually pay for your PVR software?!!?

Re:Various Options

[TheFlyingGoat]

You mean you've never paid for software before? Sure, there's plenty of free software out there, but nothing that I liked as much as Meedio. I tried out various software and decided on the one I liked most, regardless of cost. I got it on sale for $20, so it's negligible compared to the rest of the cost of the project.

Re:Various Options

[Mr2001]

Since most people haven't forked out $3000+ for a HDTV set, and won't, upscaling isn't very important in the near future. It'll take quite a while for prices to come down to reasonable levels, and by that time, upscaling DVD players will be cheap anyway.

Re:Various Options

[Yhippa]

Would you mind listing your setup?

Re:Various Options

[Anonymous Coward]

Upscaling DVD players are less than $150 these days. How cheap do you want them?

Re:Various Options

[TheFlyingGoat]

• Coolermaster Cavalier 2 case
  
• ABIT KV8 ATX AMD Motherboard (any motherboard with SPDIF out works fine)
  
• AMD Sempron 2600+
  
• Corsair Value Select 512mb (I've since added another 512)
  
• Any Radeon 9600 or higher. Must support ATI dongle. I have a Radeon 9600 SE.
  
• ATI Component Video Dongle (there are better options for video now)
  
• 2 Logitech Rumblepad 2 game controllers
  
• Windows XP (or Linux)
  
• Meedio (or MythTV)
  

That's it, other than a bunch of hard drives. If you can afford it, I'd suggest something like this for a storage solution, since I've already had 1 drive go bad. It's a pain reloading everything onto it, especially since I'm encoding everything to xvid to save on hard drive space (1.5GB/movie with AC3 sound vs 5-9GB/movie).

I'm saving up for a HD capture card, which will add $150-$200 to the total price. Right now I just download everything from Usenet (usenetserver.com alt.binaries.tv) at 500k/s. The nice thing about a setup like this is you can start really simple and add features and parts as you go. Ultimately I'll get a parity drive system, dual HDTV cards, a faster processor, and more hard drive space, but for now this is plenty. It's used at least once a day and I've never had any major issues with it.

Keep in mind it's a hobby, though, not just a product. It will take time to get up and running the way you want.

Re:Various Options

[Yhippa]

Thanks. I like this setup and I think I'll try it out. I'm a sucker for DIY even though I could probably buy this from Dell or HP for 60% of the cost.

Re:Various Options

[TheFlyingGoat]

Almost forgot. Be careful with the case and video card. The case won't allow full height video cards... the ones that extend past the bracket. You might want to consider a Lian-Li case instead. It's slightly more expensive, but will hold full height cards and twice as many hard drives. My friend got this one, and it looks decent. They also make it in silver.

Re:Various Options

[Zathrus]

There's plugins to check weather, play games (emulation), look at traffic reports, get sports scores and highlights, and much more.

Weather? Check.
Play games? Kinda. They're pretty weak ones. It's really not comparable.
Traffic reports? Check.
Sports scores? Check. Highlights -- depends.
Much more? Check.

And that's with a stock TiVo Series2 plus a USB ethernet dongle. And I can transfer video back and forth between the TiVo and my PC or other TiVos, play music, look at slideshows, podcasts, etc. -- again, just with the stock unit and stock software. Add Galleon on your PC and you can do a good bit more.

No, TiVos are still not as capable as a self-built HTPC, but they're a hell of a lot easier to setup and use.

I'd like to see someone get a Tivo (+ lifetime subscription) and DVD player capable of upscaling for $1000

Uh... ok. 40 hour TiVo S2 - $30 (after rebate). Subscription - $300. USB2 ethernet dongle - $15.

I think I can find a decent DVD player for under $650. Really.

Or, heck, you could get a Humax 80 hour DVD recorder w/ TiVo for $90 after rebate. Even with the lifetime sub that's under $400. Admittedly, it doesn't have a scalar, but if your TV has one then it doesn't matter too much. Only Svideo/composite out, so that rather sucks though.

In which case you can buy the Toshiba 120 hour DVD recorder w/ TiVo. $150 after rebate. Add $300 for the lifetime sub, and you now have a single PVR/DVD box with component outputs. And you're under $500, much less $1000.

Re:Various Options

[fyrie]

It's been about 8 months since I last looked into upscaling DVD players, but all of the sub $300 ones had issues. All of them. Granted, these dvd players can have their ROMs updated via a cd so maybe things it's a different game now. I actually purchased a LG and a Samsung and ended up returning them and opting to build a HTPC

The other downside to these players is that IMHO when it comes to upscaling, one size does not fit all. Certain upscaling methods have problems with certain types of content. With a HTPC I can swap between ffdshow, PureVideo, etc...

All that being said, I'm sure my parents would be happy with a $150 upscaling dvd player.

Re:Various Options

[Monkeyfarmer]

If you wouldn't mind answering a quick question about your setup and HTPC in general. How do you get progressive scan video out of a PC's DVD to your TV? I've not seen anyone address that. Thanks!

Re:Various Options

[TheFlyingGoat]

I'm going to guess at this, since I really don't use the DVD drive in my HTPC. I actually rip on my normal computer using DVD Decryper and then encode using AutoGK (75% quality).

To watch DVD content directly from the DVD within Meedio or another frontend, I believe you'd have to install software similar to SlySoft AnyDVD. That will remove the protection and allow other software to access the content. Meedio has a menu module called "Play DVD" that can play from the DVD drive assuming it's not protected. It uses whatever default player you have set up in Meedio to display the content. I believe WindowsMCE would work similarily. Can't say for certain about MythTV.

I know many people dump the DVD ISO to a hard drive and then use a combination of AnyDVD, Meedio, and Daemon-Tools to play them. To do that, you'd also have to set up the PlayMee plugin within Meedio, which makes it all pretty simple and seamless.

For a while I was doing my movies that way, but I was using the PlayMee plugin to launch ZoomPlayer instead of using Meedio's internal player. Then I was using ffdshow to upscale the DVD to HDTV quality. I run at 1000x776 resolution (the missing 80 lines account for overscan). It looked quite good, but puts a huge load on the processor. I believe Meedio's internal player can now make use of ffdshow as well.

A cheap alternative to all of this is using XBox Media Center and an XBOX with a mod chip. It's not nearly as flexible or well polished, but you can hack up the code pretty well to do most things. It's just the cost of a mod chipped XBox, then (~ $400. $200 if you mod it yourself).

mythtv

[pulse2600]

Anyone know what is going on with MythTV and Digital Cable or HDTV support? If I go myth I would like to know that I can get full res HDTV or to be able to get a "digital cable card" (does one even exist?) No sense in setting up a mythtv box if I don't know if I will be able to transition to these other technologies but companies like Microsoft can or eventually will.

Re:mythtv

[mrchaotica]

Better start donating to the EFF, then, because the media industry and Microsoft aren't going to let a CableCard get anywhere near a system that doesn't support Treacherous Computing without a fight!

Re:mythtv

[hobbesx]

Myth also has built-in firewire support for compatable boxes. The most popular that I am aware of is the DCT6200. I've been able to capture HD easily with it, it just takes a lot of horsepower to play back smoothly. As an added bonus, it can change the channel on the cable box by itself as well, so only a single firewire cable. No extra IR dongles or anything. The only catch is that you can only pull unencrypted channels through the firewire port. All others need to go through s-video and separate audio like other non-firewire cable boxes.

Re:mythtv

[pulse2600]

Why is that the only option? I think these kinds of issues beg the question: Why won't a commercial Linux vendor bite the bullet and get the licensing they need to provide for things like legal DVD playback and other codecs? If someone like a Red Hat did not want to lose money on their investment they could always package the software separate from their Linux distribution under a different license and keep it closed source if that is what is required of them. That way one can still get their favorite Open Source, non-DRM infested OS while those who would be willing to add those capabilities or restrictions to their system can do it for a price. I, for one, have no plans to rip DVDs or audio and would not worry about DRM on a system that has no other purpose than to run my home theater. If something like I just described existed I would buy it, and so would others as not everyone who runs Linux screams OH NOES DRM IS TEH EVIL!!!111one!!1!

Re:mythtv

[mrchaotica]

Because Treacherous Computing does not work that way! Treacherous Computing requires that all parts of the system, including the OS, are "Trusted," because having even one un-"Trusted" link in the chain allows the whole system to be circumvented. Anything that requires "Trust" to function -- such as this ATi HDTV tuner -- will require that the rest of the hardware and software present support it too.

So now, why can't Linux simply become "Trusted"-compatible? Well, because that requires having the binaries vetted and cryptographically signed by an outside authority (e.g. Microsoft). This means that even if you could get a signed version of Linux, it would no longer be Free Software because it would be impossible to modify it and still have it work!

Oh, and no, there isn't a way around it. Treacherous Computing includes something called "remote attestation," whereby a remote system can make sure that your system hasn't been tampered with. This means that every HD movie you watch has to phone home, it means that you can't spoof your web browser's ID any more (e.g. to access "IE-only" sites with Firefox), etc.

It also means that, for any reason, anyone with enough clout can cause your computer to stop functioning entirely, by revoking the keys embedded in your hardware. Not only that, with the way they're lobbying Congress, I won't be surprised when they pass a law prohibiting non-"Trusted" machines from accessing the Internet (because the only people that don't embrace this wonderful DRM are evil hackers and "ter'rists").

It's a much bigger deal than "mere DVDs!"

What about remotes?

[scolby]

Cases? Wow.

If they really want something worth buying, how about redesigning the typical television remote control? Granted, you could just use a wireless mouse to control things, but why not copy Nintendo's Revolution controller? Move the remote, and the on screen cursor follows. But it's also a typical universal remote, so you've got two devices in one. Might do a lot to bring non-techies into the HTPC world.

And it's a potential use for the Revolution controller that I actually like!

Re:What about remotes?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean perhaps like http://www.gyration.com/en-US/OEMProduct.html

What about HDTV ?

[Tiger4]

Now that HTPC has finally taken off, one more curve ball is coming: the final HDTV conversion in the US, this coming Dec! There are not that many direct HDTV capture cards out there, and there aren't many homebrew software packages that work with them. Not MythTV, not WinMCE, not any of the others. A year from now we'll have the coolest pices of obsolete hardware on the block.

And while we're at it, who is working on the digital cable capture and the DVB dish problems? Proprietary hardware, encryption and signalling, means we pay the $$$ to see and record what they want us to see.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[The Salamander]

Myth works great with HD. Two cards that I have used are the air2pc and pcHDTV.

I've had a PVR-500 (dual NTSC) and air2pc (single ATSC) server running for quite a long time now.

I actually found HD (digital) to be much easier to setup than regular analog.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[Gogo Dodo]

CableCard support is coming soon from ATI. See the AnandTech preview of ATI's OCUR.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can dish out for a card that records directly from a component input. Add in an IR transmitter or USB/serial interface to your cable box or sat box and you're set. I'm patiently waiting for a HDTV card to do it all, and until then I just download the shows on Usenet.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[mrchaotica]

Actually it's not -- at least, not in any way that's actually useful. You know how I can tell? This paragraph from the article:

Microsoft had originally promised to fix the HDTV support issues in the latest update to MCE, but concerns over DRM protection on HD content was raised and Microsoft's hands were forced into delaying the support until Windows Vista.

That means that the HD won't work unless the OS supports Treacherous Computing, which is fundamentally incompatible with Free Software. This is because in order for the hardware to allow the OS to access the DRM'd content, the software has to be digitally signed, and it's impossible to have signed software that you've modified and/or compiled yourself. In other words, your copy of Linux either won't work, or it'll be a special locked-down version endorsed by the MPAA et al. and you won't be able to modify it (defeating the entire point of Free Software).

Oh, and you know how people complain about TiVos because they restrict what you can do with the saved TV shows? Well, it's extremely unlikely that the media companies will allow you to do anything more than that using Windows Media Center or anything else. In fact, they could restrict it to one viewing (and then it would automatically delete itself), disallow you from skipping commercials, etc. and the hardware and software would enforce their wishes against you. And there's nothing you could do about it!

I certainly won't be buying this ATi card, and I strongly suggest you don't either if you value your freedom!

Re:What about HDTV ?

[xMilkmanDanx]

What about with non-antenna HD sources such as cable/satellite? (i.e. what most people that are making a HTPC are going to be using)

Actually I am curious if there is anything like that out currently.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[kartan]

Yes, but do those cards allow you to capture HDTV output from your cable boxes, or just Over The Air broadcasts? I'm still waiting for something I can use to capture HD HBO, but first my cable box needs to descramble it. Last time I checked, all of the HDTV tuner cards on the market were OTA only.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[hobbesx]

You can pull HD from some cable channels using firewire-capable cable boxes like the DCT6200, but only unencrypted channels. Myth can still get access to them using the cable box as an external tuner- firewire or an IR dongle to change channels and a hardware capture card to grab an s-video signal from the box. You can pass surround sound audio through myth with an audio optical in/out, or just capture the audio out from the cable box using the line input on your soundcard.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[Ryan C.]

Don't hold your breath. There is no way HBO will ever let their HD digital signal out of any demodulator without encrypting the content with 5C or equivalent. The best you can hope for is a mod. chip to come out for one of the firewire capable cable boxes, but this will be expressly illegal unlike mod. chips for consoles due to the MPAA written laws we have now.

Re:What about HDTV ?

[lunax]

Dec '06 is not the dead line any more. It's been pushed to Feb 2009.
http://news.com.com/House+approves+new+digital-TV+ deadline/2100-1025_3-6000804.html

Re:What about HDTV ?

[geckofiend]

QAM (cable HD) is supported as is Firewire from your cable box.

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't hear the HTPC either. My DVD player doesn't make much noise, aside from the small seeking noise when I select an option in the menu. I can't hear the receiver either from the couch despite it having a fan.

And for the cheap

[Dark Paladin]

Just buy an iPod and the upcoming Griffen Tunecenter - it finally does the one thing I've wanted from the video iPod - display a menu on the TV.

Seems that most of the HTPC's I've run across just run into odd complications (usually because they won't just let me rip my DVD's to the hard drive, for fear of having the crap sued out of them). Which leaves either MythTV, or this iPod solution.

If you need a smart case...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you need a smart case to match your hifi seperates, give the manufacterers a call. You should be able to get an empty power amp chasis for ~ 50 quid. Fit a silenx psu (up to 400w and only 62mm tall!) and the rest of the gubbins and you'll have a much better system than the competition can muster.

HTPCs are for geeks

[MobyDisk]

No, 3 years ago was the year for HTPCs. Back when a good CPU was 35 watts. When a Micro ATX case had a 150 watt power supply. Back when a single 80mm fan was good enough. Look at the rigs they are promoting now: a 430 watt power supply (a DVD player is probably 100 watts). Two 120mm fans. A full-size desktop case. Integrated LCD displays (none of my home theater equipment has or needs an LCD display). These things don't look or act at all like "home theater" devices. They are more like high-end gaming PCs.

The year of the HTPC will return when I see reasonable-priced PCs that are 2" tall, use 100 watts, and work with my existing universal remote control.

Re:HTPCs are for geeks

[Tackhead]

> The year of the HTPC will return when I see reasonable-priced PCs that are 2" tall, use 100 watts, and work with my existing universal remote control.

In other words, the year of the HTPC will be the year of the car PC.

Rant: It's 2006 already! Why is it that I'm still having to grab a cheap-ass $20 "SD-based player" with minimal/no support for playlists/etc, cut it up into little bits, solder some extension wires to a SecureDigital card slot from Digikey, and spend a weekend or two applying wood or plastic veneer to the front of the resulting contraption in order to get "looks like it was built-in" MP3 support for my car without trying to hide an entire mini-ITX case in there? I should be able to buy a head unit with 1GB of flash onboard, a USB port, and just load the goddamn car straight from my laptop!)

Re:HTPCs are for geeks

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you mean like itx boards.

Re:HTPCs are for geeks

[HTH NE1]

A proper HTPC setup separates the silent and small head-end from the noisy back-end stored in a suitably baffled and ventilated closet somewhere, feeding all the data to the head over a single gigabit-or-better ethernet connection dedicated to feeding video to every room (smaller installations may get by with 100Base-T).

The noisiest thing in the head should be a single DVD drive, and that will only make noise when used to rip data to the server room or record disks. No local hard drive; just boot off a USB thumbdrive mounted as read-only behind a panel.

Get the network protocols standardized and you might even get dedicated heads built by companies able to shrink electronics further and provide swappable output daughterboards and rear bezels. With no recording going on in the head, it could even be built to support both DRM'd and DRM-less data. IR control is fed back to the back-end over the network.

Fans???

[advocate_one]

come on now please, I don't want to hear fans kicking in during a quiet passage of dialogue... where are the cases with passive heatsinks where the sink forms most of the case? fans are just a way of chugging the thing out quickly and cheaply without having to go to the trouble of actually designing a proper solution...

Re:Fans???

[Misch]

How about a Shuttle SD11G5. It has an external power brick, heat sink on the CPU and a single fan.

It uses the Pentium M chipset, so it doesn't draw a lot of power. Built-in Creative 7.1 sound, SPDIF in, SPDIF out, 1 PCI Express and 1 pci slot, and VGA/DVI onboard output. SFFTech Review. Shuttle's tests say that it's noise level is 24 dB.

Re:Fans???

[enrico_suave]

I think you end up using case fans (hopefully high quality, large ones, with a zalman fan mate or the like) to keep the airflow going because you probably chose mostly passively cooled components in your HTPC.

Have you seen those cases that are basically a giant heatsink? yech! and $$$$

e.

Re:Fans???

[fossa]

Hush PC is somewhat pretty. But it is quite expensive, and I don't think they sell the case alone.

Re:Fans???

[advocate_one]

like the look of these... (damn, can't link to a particular item... stupid website) wonder what they're like for running Linux on...

Re:Fans???

[Anonymous Coward]

Fans do not have to be noisy. For example, my 32" plasma TV has got at least one fan in it. I can not hear it but I do feel the outblow ontop of the TV. I replaced the noisy fan on my mini-itx to a passive heatsink but also added a 8cm fan for airflow (turned down to 5-600 rpm by a zalman fanmate2), I can barely hear it when it is quiet in the house.

Re:Fans???

[geckofiend]

It's amazing the number of people who say things like this. You act like things such as fanless powere supplies and low noise cooling equipment don't exist. You can't here my HTPC from 3 feet away let alone from my couch and I've not done anything other than install some fan regulators.

Re:Fans???

[advocate_one]

the ones shown in TFA all had fans... loads of them... and the more powerful the processors being pushed on us (necessary for the incoming HDTV requirements), the hotter they're gonna run, so the more cooling they need... those new chip dies chuck out as much heat as a couple of 100 watt bulbs... so they need cooling, and so do the big power supplies and the high spec graphics cards, and currently, it appears that the quick and dirty solution is to use fans

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[KrancHammer]

Seriously, though, I want my home theater PC to be invisible

Its innovative case design that makes visual and auditory blending possible. Small footprint, etc. Which is the main attraction for HTPC cases, not the flashy doodads of the "l33t" rigs, which you are envisioning. So yes, case design is a legitimate criteria to use in purchasing a HTPC.

The year of the big clunky HTPC?

[tji]

Wow, all of those cases were huge. My preference has always been to put the minimal possible system connected to my display device, and put all the storage and other backend hardware in a cheap beige-box somewhere else.

With MythTV, this works great. The backend houses the disks & receiver cards, the frontend just does display output, and they talk over the network.

Some people have set up cool mini-itx type systems for the frontend, using either flash storage or network boot, to get the MythTV front end in a small quiet form. A really cool project is MythRoku, which runs the MythTV frontend on the Roku HD Media Player (Linux based, embedded MIPS platform with hardware HD decoder). It's small and silent, and fits in well with home entertainment devices.

My Mac Mini would also make an excellent MythTV frontend.. If Apple would get a fucking clue and enable an API to the MPEG2 acceleration hardware on the GPU. Without that, it doesn't have the horsepower to do HD display/decoding.

Re:The year of the big clunky HTPC?

[shut_up_man]

I agree, those cases are large. I was expecting 1U-sized cases at least... those cases look nice, but they're about the size of a large black obelisk unearthed on the moon.

Re:The year of the big clunky HTPC?

[dan the person]

I agree those cases are fucking huge! Who wants those in their lounge? Not me.

And dual 120mm cooling fans, plus 450W power supply cooling fan, plus CPU and gfx fans. What a joke, we are talking home theatre here, and i like my lounge to be silent when im reading a book.

I've got a Travla C137 case which is 68cm wide x 32cm deep x 25cm high. They do much smaller ones but then you have to use a laptop harddrive, and i wanted cheap and big(capacity, not size).

It's got a VIA EPIA SP8000 motherboard, a 320Gb HDD and a DVD RW. Runs myth front-end and back-end, and 0 fans. Not a single one. The only noise is the DVD and HDD when they are in use.

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[TheFlyingGoat]

So build your HTPC in a normal case and put it in another room. Get a RF remote and run the wires to your TV and receiver through the wall. Since most HTPC software has really good OSD messaging, you really don't need it in the room for any reason.

I'm remodeling my basement right now and will be building a second HTPC to be located in the laundry room behind my home theater. It makes sense since the projector will be back there too. Since I'll insulate that wall, I won't ever hear the HTPC and I won't ever see it.

My current HTPC is in a Coolermaster case. It looks really nice with the rest of my home theater equipment, and I've actually gotten a few compliments just on the case. It was only $100, so it's around the cost of any other well made case.

Too complicated and unnecessary

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know how they can claim that this year will be the year for HTPC when they are still to complex to use for the average consumer. And I don't see them offering any practical benefit over DVR boxes currently offered by a lot of cable companies now days. The point is there is not a killer app to have a big complicated PC in most people's living rooms.

I am going through this

[tacokill]

I just went through this and am still trying to figure this out. I just got an HDTV. See my earlier post, here.

In my previous post, I mentioned that my HTPC was the best looking device attached to my HDTV. I am now amending that to "2nd best" (hard to compete with a 1080i feed of DiscoveryHD).

Nonetheless, I have noticed one major problem that needs to be resolved with HTPC's. The sound card. I've used many many different kinds of sound cards and without exception, ALL of them output stereo ONLY through the SPDIF/Coax. I just bought a Turtle Beach Montego and finally, I have found a card that can produce true 5.1 Dolby Digital on the fly. The rest advertise 5.1 and the like -- but what they mean is 5.1 when you pump the analog signal to their speakers. NOT 5.1 out of the digital-out.

This is not a big deal for DVDs because most soundcards have Dolby digital pass through -- so they pass the 5.1 signal to your A/V receiver and it decodes the signal. However, for MP3's, downloaded movies, or anything else you are play on your HTPC, there is no real 5.1 solution --- unless you go with a Turtle Beach unit (or M-Audio, which I haven't tried). Yes, you can "simulate" but at the core, it's only a stereo feed with most sound cards.

The second thing I have noticed, with respect to HTPC's is this: Why the hell don't the frontend software makers realize that MANY of us store our media (movies, tv, music) on network shares. Why is this a big deal? Because I fire up Windows MCE and I find out that, in order to play a movie from the network, it has to copy the movie to my local library first. You can't just play it over the network. It must first be copied to the local machines. WTF? I see this design a lot and I suspect its because many ppl are trying to run HTPC's over 802.11. Here's some advice: don't. Just suck it up and run the cable. Your life will be much better for it. Trust me. I tried every setup imaginable.

These are just a few annoyances that I've encountered while setting up my HTPC. I don't yet have a capture card/TV card so I haven't gotten to setting up the TV part of this.

The good news is that my setup (finally) works pretty damn well, all things considered. I agree this is the year of the HTPC because I've just been through it.


With my Meedio system, I can do the following:
a) Play XViD, DiVX, SVCD, or any other format directly from a network share
b) Get weather, complete with radar images
c) Play my mp3's -- like a music library w/ jukebox
d) View photos as slideshow over a network share
e) View and play streaming music (Shoutcast)
f) Control the whole system with a remote control -- VERY IMPORTANT!!!

Re:I am going through this

[SomeOtherGuy]

The best I have been able to stream with much success over any wireless network (b or g) is somewhere between VCD and SVCD quality. What I save in running a few 25' cables throughout the house -- I lose in CPU cycles transcoding everything to MPEG1 VCD quality so that I can stream shows across the network. Not to mention the possibiliy of having to transcode again to a format for something like a video Ipod or PSP.

Re:I am going through this

[geekoid]

"Why the hell don't the frontend software makers realize that MANY of us store our media (movies, tv, music) on network shares."

Actually, most don't. They ain't seeling to you Tech boy, there selling to average Joe. Most of whom have a few shelves of DVDs and video cassettes.

Re:I am going through this

[Kiryat Malachi]

If the wireless is otherwise dead, I've had success streaming DVD video over 802.11g. 100BaseT to the router, then g to the display device.

Re:I am going through this

[SomeOtherGuy]

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of wireless cards and router are you using? That accomplishment (being able to stream DVD quality video) would be a great advert for the hardware. I am assuming this is on Linux, so the 'g' cards are supported and have good drivers.

Re:I am going through this

[RedWizzard]

This is not a big deal for DVDs because most soundcards have Dolby digital pass through -- so they pass the 5.1 signal to your A/V receiver and it decodes the signal. However, for MP3's, downloaded movies, or anything else you are play on your HTPC, there is no real 5.1 solution --- unless you go with a Turtle Beach unit (or M-Audio, which I haven't tried). Yes, you can "simulate" but at the core, it's only a stereo feed with most sound cards.

Is there really much content out there that has 5.1 but isn't AC3 or DTS? I haven't seen much myself. The only use I've seen for AC3 encoding is with games.

Re:I am going through this

[enrico_suave]

part of this might be an mpeg2 decoder limitation, some software decoders handles this better than others... I think nvidia pure video decoder, for example, you'd need the premium tier decoder, unless you just need pass-through from a 5.1 source... the other piece of the puzzle, I believe, is to get a sound card with dolby digital encoding. But you're right that 5.1 isn't always 5.1 despite what it says on the package.

And always remember GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

I've heard good things about the mystique-x line for what it's worth.

e.

Re:I am going through this

[Kiryat Malachi]

The hell with that. It's XP, using whatever hardware comprises a Centrino chipset with 802.11g, and a Netgear WRT614 or something like that. Work laptop, so even if I liked Linux (I *don't*) I couldn't put it on there. Stream is going through one plaster wall, one thin wood wall, and traveling ~35-40 feet.

Re:I am going through this

[IronChef]

The X-Mystique and other cards in its family have full DD support including creating a DD stream from multichannel game sound.

http://www.bluegears.com/

Single component need for full realization

[boy_afraid]

The capture card. If someone can creater either a HDTV CableCard ready tuner or a non-CableCard Component Capture card then you will see HTPC blast into space in terms of consumer products and homebrewed projects.

Right now we are limited to OTA* and Cable QAM256 unencrypted channels. I want to be able to record the Sopranos in HDTV quality and playback. So far, I think MythTV and the HD-3000 is the closes we can get without spending thousand to tens-of-thousands of dollars to accomplish what I want.

But, believe it or not, I'm going to build my HTPC very very soon and not worry about the HDTV I can't get. There aren't that many HDTV channels to worth jumping through firey hoops to get the WAF* satisfied.

* NOTE:
OTA = Over-The-Air
WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor

Re:Single component need for full realization

[enrico_suave]

you're right... but unfortunately I think you'll see PC based cablecard support from billy boy and windows Vista MCE before you'll see it on linux (if ever?) :(

DRM/content controls is really out of hand. Viva analog loophole!

e

Re:Single component need for full realization

[bunco]

Put your pirate hat on and research DVB-C and DVB-S cards.

There's a reason we're not piping unencrypted digital streams into our PCs.. It's called copyright.

Re:Single component need for full realization

[xMilkmanDanx]

Copyright law still allows fair use, though the increasing rentable legistators are working to close up any and all loopholes.

Someone hit the nail on the head about the DMCA when they commented that pirates were going to stop copying with the addition of another law. It was already illegal to distribute copyrighted works. DMCA just makes it illegal to do anything with legally purchased content.

Re:Single component need for full realization

[Tarwn]

ATI OCUR? Slated for 2006?

The fact that ATIis doing it should drive a lot more companies into rushing to get their own put together as well.

Re:Single component need for full realization

[boy_afraid]

OOOOOooooohhhh! Woooowwww!!! Drool. Is there a snowball chance in hell that this will be supported on Linux?

Formats formats formats

[tacokill]

Because they ALL want to lock you into "their format". And will do anything to avoid playing "the other guy's" format. See DiVX and XViD support.

In my mind, anything that CAN'T play DiVX or XViD is already dead on arrival.

Get a harmony

[tacokill]

Seriously, get a Harmony remote. The 2nd best electronics purchase I've ever made. (Tivo was my first).

It will make you (and wife/gf?) very happy.

They really do work as well as advertised.

Re:Get a harmony

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Seriously, get a Harmony remote. The 2nd best electronics purchase I've ever made. (Tivo was my first).

It will make you (and wife/gf?) very happy.

They really do work as well as advertise

... I hadn't thought of that, but with the way you men just love your gadgets, this HTPC thing may be the straw that turns us all into lesbians :-)

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[garcia]

This unit is larger than *any* computer I have ever owned! We were complaining about the size of the media labeled "clunky" HD-DVD players that were "showcased" this year and somehow these are popular?

IMHO, my Mac Mini is still a little too large for my media center. I want something TINY, super tiny, and super slim.

Sorry, these behemoths just won't cut it.

PCI cablecard

[a_greer2005]

When will we get a PCI cable card reader for linux to work with the HD tuners...with that and a little more tweaking, Myth could bbe soooo much better than propriatery solutions.

Re:PCI cablecard

[geckofiend]

Never.

Seriously, nothing open source will ever be able to use cable card.

DRM DRM DRM

[mrchaotica]

Most importantly, they want to lock you into their format so that they can also lock you into their DRM, and eventually force you to watch everything pay-per-view.

Built-ins? That's the innovation this year?

[Anonymous Coward]

"My wife heartily agrees (I think she's the one who convinced me) -- any electronics need to be in the cabinet or in the wall."

2007 will be the "Happy Feet, Body Boom Box. Entertainment System" were the electronics are built in...to you.

--
[Scolby]
"If they really want something worth buying, how about redesigning the typical television remote control? Granted, you could just use a wireless mouse to control things, but why not copy Nintendo's Revolution controller?"

How about the squeezable remote? Squeezing it different ways, activates different functions.*

*Warning some of the motions may be illegal in your state.

[Nick Grisburne]
"Integrated my arse, I like to have hulking great machines for each and every task! "

First time a porn tour has ever had roadies.

DId you here that?

[geekoid]

Yes what was it?
that my friend, was the sound of the whip....The pussy whip.

Crraaaaack!

Re:DId you here that?

[Red Flayer]

Sure I'm whipped. But one's gotta have pussy in order to be whipped -- so I don't mind so much :)

Seriously though, it's much more peaceful for me in my home since I've put all the wiring in the walls, all the electronics in cabinets (mostly built-ins I made), etc. My projects are in the basement, where the wife is not allowed (that just means she doesn't want to go down there at all).

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[Red Flayer]

How do you keep the HTPC cool if it's enclosed in an insulated wall? I vented mine with a grille near my ceiling, but even so, the flow rate is less than I'd like (and I'd prefer not to have a fan up there as well as on my case).

Works Great with HDPC3000 Card

[FreeUser]

MythTV works great with my HDPC3000 card for HDTV, and my Hauppauge 350 for old-school low-res cable.

Sure, this may be the year of the HTPC....

[QCompson]

...but next year will be the year of the linux desktop! (no, no, seriously this time)

Man...

[winphreak]

When I read the title, I thought it said "The year of the THC."

I don't remember those times though.

Re:Man...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you need http://www.smokedot.org/

my favorite HTPC site ;)

[enrico_suave]

Build your own PVR but then again that's probably no surprise ;)

also a very good resource: HTPCnews

Xbox 360

[firesuite]

will any of these for mentioned media players work with the new xbox other than the almost unobtainable media centre edition.. I dont wanna spend $130 on XPMCE for putting my music and video library on my xbox.. the extender works for XP as well but it doesnt do video.. any have any ideas on this? I have a old laptop with a nice big usb external hard disk so i have enough disk space i just dont wanna for out for a fluffed out version of XP.. Ms has made enough money out of me already on the xbox thanks....

Mod Parent Up: Get a Harmony

[Shawn Parr]

Seriously, I just got a Harmony 520. I have programmed Pronto remotes before, and if you are really hard core there are some shortcomings to the Harmonies, but for most people they work very well and are pretty painless to set up.

A few advantages:

1. My entire family can use it. Most of those people are very non-technical
2. Activity based with smart state: Have a stupid cable box that doesn't have discreet on and off commands? The remote remembers what it has turned on and off so that when it goes from one activity to another it can switch between multiple inputs and turn on/off only what is necessary. Have 4 inputs that need to be toggled through, it will do it.
3. Supports both Mac and PC out of the box. I wouldn't be surprised if there were Linux people with solutions to get it to work (the programming is done on the web site, the client side is a Java app that takes the file from the website and flashes the remote)
4. A set up activity will control everything in the system necessary for that activity. For example, when watching DVDs most buttons control the DVD player, but you can have the volume buttons control the AV Receiver, and other buttons controlling features on the TV like aspect control, etc.
5. Costs not much more than much less capable "universal" remotes.

I was not a believer in these things for years, but after using one (and the cheapest one available mind you) I'm pretty impressed.

HTPC market

[tacokill]

Yea, I see what you are saying.

But the only market for HTPC, right now, is "power users". Joe Average has no idea that an HTPC is even possible, sans MS Media Center. So when I say "MANY", I mean many power users. And yes, most of us know how to create a network share.

And doesn't a network share make sense? Store your "stuff" in one place. Access it from many devices.

Those things are huge

[Animats]

Those cases are huge! They look like a PC/AT, circa 1984. This stuff needs some serious downsizing.

Re:Those things are huge

[Jackson_Ash]

I'd agree, that is somewhat large. I myself have been using a Shuttle ( http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/brb_def ault.asp/ has some of the available models) case which fits nicely into my collection of home theatre equipment. Most non-geeks that come over are pretty shocked to find out that it is the computer in use.

Re:Those things are huge

[bunco]

The form factor is meant to match that of component audio devices. The HTPC case I bought is almost exactly the same size (width _and_ depth) as my AV receiver. This is nice because I can stack the receiver on top (venting an amp is critical).

Re:Those things are huge

[petermgreen]

yeah some hi-fi amps have vents in stupid places like the top and if you'r running them at high power then they need to be unobstructed.

rackmount amplifiers on the other hand are usually fan cooled with vent positions limited to the front and back.

Uh, does anybody but me remember...

[Jepler]

... the time when the mark of a real computer was that you couldn't hook it up to your TV, unlike your Commodore 64?

My HTPCs (plural), you mean

[monopole]

Presently my living room has 3 HTPCs. A control unit for web browsing, MP3 playing and VNC control of two others. The second box is a dedicated SageTV box which serves as a PVR. Finally my DIY projector runs off of a dedicated PC under VNC control. For the moment we are ignoring the PS2 and the XBox.

Re:Mod Parent Up: Get a Harmony

[tacokill]

Funny, I switched from a Pronto as well. To me, there is no comparison. I have a 659 Harmony (cheap-o) and it was ridiculously easy to setup and use.

MCE definitely supports HD tuners!!

[bmajik]

Although one irritating quirk is that in the current builds (MCE 2005 w/ Rollup #2, code named "Emerald"), MCE will not detect an ATSC tuner card unless an NTSC tuner is also installed.

Multi-tuner HDTV from disjoint networks was a core scenario for Emerald. (i.e. MCE knows what your SD tuners have, what channels your HD tuner have, when shows show up both places that you prefer HD, etc)

A co-worker tells me it works well, looks fabulous.

CableCard is happening this year. Also, DirecTV has struck a deal with MS to somehow get HD content off of DTV boxes onto MCE boxes. Details aren't clear, but at least they're finally talking.

Lone voice in the wilderness...

[Teddy Beartuzzi]

I just don't get the whole HTPC thing. I don't *want* my computer involved in my daily tv watching.

If I have something that needs permanent archiving, *then* I transfer it from the tivo to the computer.

LOL

[tacokill]

Wow....I missed that you were of the female persuasion. Please accept my humble apology for my faux paux! Apparently, I am in geek stereotype mode this afternoon.

Re:LOL

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Apology accepted :-)

It's been a long time since I dared post - the first day I posted anything, the very first response I got was some jerk trying to trick me with a link to you-can-guess-who's picture (hint - its pretty disgusting).

I had been warned, but still, it turned me off from posting for a long time. I decided to give it another chance today. So far, so good :-)

Content

[muenzer]

At least this article from XYZ Computing had some content, unlike the PSU article from two posts ago that didn't even link to the manufacturer. And both from an "anonymous reader"...

Re:Mini - how?

[Anonymous Coward]

what do you need to get a Mini to do everything? I would use the DVI to connect to my projector.

It would be nice to get 5.1 out for movies...

My imression

[bmajik]

from what i've read internally, the Cable Companies are a much bigger slice of that problem than Microsoft.

MS is only pro-DRM in the sense that, without any DRM, content providers wont get onboard with PCs, and if there is going to be DRM, Microsoft might as well make it so that it at least works right in windows (and beacuse nobody could possibly write software worse than media companies...)

Think about it from MS's perspective. Anytime something doesn't "just work", a user is potentially going to call for support, or have a negative experience and tell a bunch of people about it. Media playback, TV tuning, etc, all needs to work painlesly. DRM complicates that quite a bit, and causes real headaches for users.

The other place MS cares about DRM / sneakiness is Xbox. Given the problems with piracy in the console space, and the subsidization of the hardware, i think those are reasonable places to want it (from MS's perspective).

Re:My imression

[mrchaotica]

I disagree. Unless they want to spend all their time making mice and keyboards, Microsoft's entire business model depends on strong protection of "intellectual property." They've got everything to gain from DRM:

• They stop people from "pirating" Windows, Office, etc.
• They're pushing the media industry to use their Windows Media DRM, which would get them free money (royalties) for the next 100 years or so
• They keep people locked-in to Windows, simply by not supporting any other platforms

And last, but certainly not least:

• Treacherous Computing automatically kills Free Software, instantly removing their biggest and most dangerous competition

Microsoft and the media industry see a future where everyone (except the few that go live in shacks in the woods) is forced to use their products because everything is encrypted and only they hold the keys -- and even if they didn't, using anything else would be illegal anyway because it would violate the DMCA and/or PATRIOT Act II ("only ter'rist hackers use non-'standard' software"). They'd be able to collect money coming and going -- royalties on the hardware and OS itself, and subscription fees to actually use it -- plus they'd even be able to collect everyone's personal information at their leisure and sell it to advertisers, insurance companies, the government, etc. And if you don't like it, they'll just remotely revoke the key for your system, effectively turning it into a nice heavy paperweight.

If you don't believe me, go read about it, especially the bits about "remote attestation."

Just think: Microsoft is on the brink of becoming Stallman's Software Protection Authority and Orwell's Ministry of Truth all rolled into one! Yay!

Re:My imression

[Anonymous Coward]

Shhhh! Microsoft is listening. If you don't shut up they will kidnap and torture you.

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[drinkypoo]

Obviously, you've never owned any big computers, like a Sun 3/260 or for that matter, a full desktop or full tower case which is still larger than that.

FCC regs

[tacokill]

One thing to consider: Cable Co's HAVE to offer a CableCard. By law. (at least, according to my cable guy who seemed VERY well informed)

And a cablecard is the key to "decrypting" all of those cable signals. Think of the CableCard as a substitute for the cable box. It looks just like a PCMCIA card and may even have the same pinout (hacks anyone?). I've even seen HDTV capture cards with CableCard support built in.

So that's how we will have some level of interoperability. I noticed the TiVO 3 supports CableCard and I suspect that's why. Because they know the cable co's have to supply them, if asked.

How will MythTV deal with DRM?

[TheAxeMaster]

In the future, all DVDs and even a lot of video streams will contain some sort of DRM. The media industry has already invented a vessel for this at the hardware level (HDMI, which everyone is stupidly demanding on their new A/V equipment). So, how will MythTV deal with this license/DRM business? Will the open source players like mplayer simply be able to ignore it? Will we be stuck with crappy quality video from DVDs we purchased, not stole, simply because we don't use a commercial product? These are the questions I'd like to hear answered.
 
I currently run a MythTV box and have had no trouble with it at all. Its been running for three months solid, without a reboot. I garauntee you MCE can't do that and still operate at speed.

Re:How will MythTV deal with DRM?

[doorbender]

I am guessing people will break encryption.

Re:How will MythTV deal with DRM?

[scorp888]

The media industry has already invented a vessel for this at the hardware level (HDMI, which everyone is stupidly demanding on their new A/V equipment).

Except the reason people want HDMI is the quality of output, they don't care about the DRM.

Going from component to HDMI is as big a jump quality wise as going from RF to Scart is/was.

Then again, all you need is a gfx card with HDMI out, which will be coming, then it doesn't matter about DRM, as they GFX card will do the HMDI handshake for you.

Linux and Upscaling?

[fyrie]

I have my win HTPC hooked up to LCD projection HDTV. Under windows I can use either nVidia's PureVideo technology or FFDSHOW to do the whole upscaling routine of resize, denoise, yadda yadda yadda. Anyone who has used either of the above can attest to how much better the video quality is compared to straight upscaling.

Are there any alternative in Linux that produce an image of FFDSHOW quality?

Re:Linux and Upscaling?

[Jackson_Ash]

Not that I've seen. Nor is there something for the Mac. Pity, as a more powerful mini would make a nice HTPC. If you aren't using the AVS forums for your info already, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f= 26/ has a forum dedicated to both Linux and Mac OS based HTPCs as well as a main forum for Windows based HTPCs.

As for ffdshow, I wholeheartedly agree on quality of the image it can produce on a powerful enough machine. For those that haven't seen ffdshow in use, http://htpcnews.com/main.php?id=ffdshowdvd_1/ has a nice explanation on how to set it up including pics showing the expected results.

JA

MCE interface is "slicker"?

[ratboy666]

I don't know about MCE - requisite Windows won't install properly on our designated PVR box. However, MythTV works fine. A couple of observations. MythTV uses XML formats to build its on screen displays, and has hooks for displaying external data as well. So the artwork and menus can be changed suitably. I assume you knew this, and therefore are referring to UI functionality, and not "slickness". Because I can't review MCE, I wouldn't mind a run-down on the features that are slicker.

Ratboy

Re:MCE interface is "slicker"?

[aztracker1]

I've only seen a bit of mythtv, but imo the viewing guide, and recording was a bit smoother, I also like how extendable it is (being a programmer), most of the MCE stuff is html/xml based as well, with some of the buffer (outer edge) things taken care of...

Not sure if mythtv has build in game emu's ala xbox media center (linux), but have been wanting to build an emu front end to add to the additional programs in mce... another "wanted" thing i would like to make the time to do, is have a shoutcast list in mce, which there isn't now, as I don't like the for-pay offerings in there by default. the music, and video ability, easy viewing and indexing of shares on other computers is pretty nice as well.... don't have to leave mce interface for that part.

I have it connected to an analog tv, so sometimes I do VNC to the desktop for some remote admin, I have auto-updates disabled, as it isn't used for any regular surfing or email, and is behind a hardware firewall.

On the down side, the ability to extend MCE is a *VERY* poorly documented feature, in comparison to *most* MS platforms... honestly, if I could get a few weeks off of work (always more) would be able to nail down most of what I want to do with the emulation front ends, and for shoutcast playlists.

Re:MCE interface is "slicker"?

[ratboy666]

Game emu is a "standard" option for MythTV. Shoutcast et al. are not there. Could be added into the framework, although I am not interested in doing that personally.

As to Guide/Recording setup. I will have to look into MCE. MythTV does "dump" live feed recording on channel change, which is the one thing I would want altered (although not sure how yet - maybe the insertion of an image? Also requires modification of the live TV buffering strategy). I'll have to play with MythTV with remote only. As it is, I have a wireless keyboard to navigate and enter data into search dialogs and such.

My hot list for MythTV:

- easy addition of hot buttons (some kind of wizard)
- mods to live tv buffering
- easier access (scripting) to external video software with a howto
- incorporation of alternate environments (eg. games running under VMware)
- possibly (if not there) dictionary smart entry via number pad (ala cellphone).

Ratboy

Re:MCE interface is "slicker"?

[aztracker1]

As for the game emu, isn't in MCE, but there is an SDK for it, and a fair amount of information, thegreenbutton site has a few mods, but not nearly as popular in the addon/plugin community as myth probably is.

As for the cell-style entry, afaik, if you use the MCE remote it's supposed to work that way, but I'm using a 3rd party remote, so I can control my receiver, tv, vcr etc with the same remote.

Dunno, seems like a bit of a tossup, I am going to move it into a media-style case, out of the minitower it's in now. When I do that, may give myth a shot, but MCE works now, and I did pay for it... so not 100% sure, also it ties in to the media on the network pretty easily.

WRONG!

[tacokill]

Wrong. I have a CableCard right now.

It looks like a PCMCIA card and may even have the same pinouts. Nonetheless, I learned from my CableCard installer that the Cable Co's are required by law to supply them.

I have also recently seen an HDTV capture card with CableCard support. (can't find the link). Plug that in and voila -- you have your HD-PVR.

Re:WRONG!

[Jherek Carnelian]

I have also recently seen an HDTV capture card with CableCard support. (can't find the link). Plug that in and voila -- you have your HD-PVR.

This is at least the second post you have made with this claim. I challenge you to put up or shut up. Find that link. Then read the details on the other end. You will find that it doesn't work the way you think it works. The output of the card is encryped and locked up with DRM and will only play back on the systems the OP specified, i.e. treacherous computing systems.

Re:WRONG!

[geckofiend]

In order to use cablecards in a PVR you have to be able to certify that there is no way for a user to gain access to an unecrypted copy of the stream. Guess which of the PVRs can never do that? All of the Myth developers recognize this, why don't you?

Just talks bout cases looking like a stereo...

[Zantetsuken]

which personally, is a HUGE downgrade in asthetics of a computer case. I know they want to make it look like it belongs with a tv and entertainment center, but the pic they showed of a case looked like an early 90's pos stereo. I admit, some of the NEWER stereos out there look pretty damn cool, but this is basically turning a PC into a DVR/Tivo and making it look like I said, an early 90's pos stereo...

BTW: go ahead and bitch about my post all you want, I stand by it, the least they could have done is make it at least half the size of the pic they showed, and make it actually look modern, sleek, and sexy as hell...

MCE 2005 allows shortcuts

[guardian653]

The second thing I have noticed, with respect to HTPC's is this: Why the hell don't the frontend software makers realize that MANY of us store our media (movies, tv, music) on network shares. Why is this a big deal? Because I fire up Windows MCE and I find out that, in order to play a movie from the network, it has to copy the movie to my local library first. You can't just play it over the network.

You don't have to move anything (at least for videos) just make a standard Windows shortcut (Right-click in a folder | New Shortcut). The shortcut can use a UNC path, it doesn't matter.

For example I have a lot of anime movies backed up to DVD's (data, not video) and I just made a shortcut to my DVD drive and I can browse around to what I want. I also have a lot of DVD movies ripped to my storage box; if the DVD rip is just the files off of a standard DVD (ex has a VIDEO_TS folder and what not) you can just browse to that folder and MCE will play it using its built in DVD player. Just as if you had the actual disc yourself

The only thing that MCE can't do, is handle MKV and OGM; you can hack around the registry to get them to play but you can't change the subtitles.. I don't know of any Windows MCE clone that does this sadly.

Re:MCE 2005 allows shortcuts

[guardian653]

I have most of my anime as AVI,MPEG,OGM/MKV,etc files. I simply placed them on DVDs because at one point I ran nearly ran out of disc space.

Digital out 5.1 works works with divx, xvid

[guidryp]

"This is not a big deal for DVDs because most soundcards have Dolby digital pass through -- so they pass the 5.1 signal to your A/V receiver and it decodes the signal. However, for MP3's, downloaded movies, or anything else you are play on your HTPC, there is no real 5.1 solution --- unless you go with a Turtle Beach unit (or M-Audio, which I haven't tried). Yes, you can "simulate" but at the core, it's only a stereo feed with most sound cards."

Actually you are not quite correct. Anything with DTS/DD will passthrough on digital for full 5.1. This INCLUDES divx,xvid movies that have properly encoded soundtracks. I watch them all the time. You just need to properly set up your player with the proper SPDIF settings. I use media player classic and allows this setup but it can take a bit of looking around to find all the proper settings.

If they don't have AC-3 soundtracks then they are STEREO and you are simply "simulating" 5.1 in your audio card (dolby surround) and encoding that to AC3. How is that any better, actually it is probably worse since you are re-encoding for no gain, better send it is unadulterated stereo into the reciever and use Dolby Prologic to playback.

Just about the only source where you have the situation of multichannel and no dolby encoding is with multichannel gaming. Most sound solutions don't do this. Either you have to use analog connections or live with stereo over the digital conneciton. My Nforce MB does encode this, but after doing a couple of times I found it never made enough differnce to worry about. Stereo and Dolby Prologic is sufficient for my gaming. I haven't used my Nforce native dolby encoding in years. Everything is passthrough to digital out, either PCM or AC3 without re-encoding.

Re:Digital out 5.1 works works with divx, xvid

[PayPaI]

Wrong. I have plenty of OGM and MKV files that have 6 channel AAC audio. This will most defiantly not work with AC3 passthru, so my only options are running 3x RCA to 1/8" stereo cables from my SBLive5.1, or get a card that does encoding on the fly.

Re:Digital out 5.1 works works with divx, xvid

[guidryp]

"Wrong. I have plenty of OGM and MKV files that have 6 channel AAC audio."

Well it works fine for Avi (that most people use) and while I have seen a few OGM's I have never seen one with AC3. If I could find one I would try it, but since I can't find one, I am hardly concerned about something I can't even find.

Re:Digital out 5.1 works works with divx, xvid

[Anonymous Coward]

you fail it

Where is the Genesi system?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. they all have fans.
I think the Genesi system is missing from the article:
http://www.pegasosppc.com/homemedia.php

Re:Mini - how?

[mysqlrocks]

It would be nice to get 5.1 out for movies...

I'm actually researching this now. The Apple DVD Player is 5.1 compatible. I don't know if the signal out of the Mac is surround sound compatible though. However, there are a few devices you can get to help with this:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Transit-main .html
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/SonicaTheate r-main.html
http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/firewave /

The FireWave (the last one) looks like the best bet to me. I might be buying one soon.

Re:Mini - how?

[mysqlrocks]

what do you need to get a Mini to do everything?

Oh, and I use a DVI to HDMI converter to send video to my 26" Sharp Aquos LCD television. I'm having problems with overscan and getting the resolution just right. I've been trying to use DisplayConfigX to fix the problem but no luck yet. There's also a program called SwitchResX that I haven't tried. Overscan isn't necessarily a problem for watching DVDs. All movies made today are edited with the assumption that there will be a certain amount of overscan. It is a problem, however, if you want your display to double as a monitor.

Media Portal For Windows (open source)

[andyatkinson]

Media Portal for Windows is open source (hosted at sourceforge), and has been under active development. They had there .2 RC pushed out last month. It isn't as refined as MythTV, but it could get there some day. What I liked was that is "just worked" as a media server for the living room, and I didn't have to maintain a Linux box or edit text files to change display resolutions for our funky HDTV. http://www.team-mediaportal.com/ Here is a writeup I did of it for an earlier release: MediaPortal: A Free PVR for Windows

And I thought I could multitask.....

[Anonymous Coward]

but if your watching 12 channels at the same time, your in another league.

Beyond me why you'd want to watch more than 1 or 2 or maybe 3, but .............. to each their own!

Missing cable card support

[DigiShaman]

With Time Warner offering HD-DVR (Digital Video Recorder), I don't see the need for this PC other than the support for other file formats. I will say this however; I WILL use a media PC in place of my DVR once they support the new cable card v2.0 (two-way communication support). That way, I can order PPV and VOD (Video on Demand), record video direct from the digital source, and do all the other stuff with just one box.

Being that I'm an employee of Time Warner Cable, I can only imagine they would be in favor of media PCs supporting cable cards. Reason being, it's less hardware TWC has to support and purchase for the end-user. It truly would be a win-win for both TWC and the consumer.

2006, Front Row PVR

[necro81]

Quick Question: what year are they referring to? If most of the source material comes from CES, then I suppose they mean 2006, the next 11+ months stretched out ahead of us. Or do they make the claim that 2005, the year just past, was the watershed/tipping point year for HTPCs?

Here's a prediction for 2006: Apple adds PVR functionality to Mac OS and Front Row. As it rolls out Intel processors to the rest of its hardware lineup, it'll probably tweak the Mac Mini a bit (some additional features have been rumored, such as a built-in iPod Dock, better A/V outputs, etc.), and add Front Row functionality to it, along with the Apple Remote. This prediction is hardly original.

What I think Apple will do is add PVR functionality to Front Row. I am not sure if they will be so bold as to release their own tuner card for video capture, or rely on third-party solutions such as EyeTV and Tivo. In the latter case, my guess is that they would release an API for Front Row, and then collaborate with the third parties to produce an add-on for Front Row (just as they have modules currently for iPhoto, iMovie, DVD player, and iTunes). I think it would be pretty slick to be able to control a Tivo from Front Row with the Apple Remote.

DRM DRM DRM-Content Junkies.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Most importantly, they want to lock you into their format so that they can also lock you into their DRM, and eventually force you to watch everything pay-per-view."

Let's see if you all understand cause and effect.

1-pay per a view.

2-Customer refuses all pay per...service.

3-?????

4-No profit...or DRM.

So DRM is irrelevent to those who refuse to be "consume-rs" (which, if slashdot is to be belived is easy. after all, all content is crap.). It's like a bicyclist complaining about the high cost of gasoline.

Re:DRM DRM DRM-Content Junkies.

[mrchaotica]

That line of reasoning doesn't work if there's a critical mass of idiots who will buy the DRM'd crap because they don't know any better. Once that happens, the rest of us will be screwed and forced to comply, unless we remove ourselves from society completely (which isn't at all feasable).

Re:DRM DRM DRM-Content Junkies.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Once that happens, the rest of us will be screwed and forced to comply, unless we remove ourselves from society completely (which isn't at all feasable)."

Only this crowd would define "screwed" as "I can't get my content fix". You all have zero backbone, and then you have the nerve to expect sympathy for your complaints. You don't NEED TV. You don't NEED CD's. You don't NEED DVD's. You WANT* all the above, but you don't need them (junkies do, but you all don't). Saying I will NOT buy content isn't removing oneself from society (and especially NOT completely). It's exercising the ability all consumers have had since the beginning of commerce. Why don't you all start using it, instead of sitting back, waiting for others ("idiots") to do what you all don't have the will for.

*Are you all even capable of discerning the difference between the two?

Re:DRM DRM DRM-Content Junkies.

[mrchaotica]

Wow, you don't get it, do you? This isn't just about movies and crap. Once enough people buy DRM that it becomes entrenched, the MPAA/RIAA/BSA can start tightening the screws, making it harder and harder for non-DRM-compatible (i.e. non-"Trusted") systems to interoperate at all.

Sure, you don't need DVDs or CDs, but how about your Internet connection? You want that? Well, kiss it goodbye once Treacherous Computing becomes ubiquitous and Microsoft successfully lobbies for an extension to the PATRIOT Act to ban access for non-"Trusted" machines (since only hackers and "ter'rists" use Linux).

Mark my words, it WILL happen if we don't fight it. Movies are the least of our worries; this fight is about privacy, free speech, and the right to have sovereignty over our own property!

(Incidentally, the reason I didn't elaborate on this particular aspect of the problem before is that I've covered it in other posts.)

4 HDTV tuners in one system.

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy who runs the Linux HTPC howto http://www.linuxis.us/linux/media/howto/linux-htpc has 4 HDTV tuners in one system and over a TB of disk, now that's something few people even dream of right now. That's a true HTPC that will not be in the garage in a couple of years. His site also has tuns of information for building any HTPC, windows or Linux.

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[LurkerXXX]

It looked to me lke he said in the laundry room, which would be *behind* the wall. The insulated wall would prevent any noise from the laundry room penetrating into the theatre room.

Re: You must not have actually tried MythTV

[doorbender]

I've tryed installing and configuring mythtv on a few occasions some of those occassions lasting weeks at a time. I have not given up. Knopmyth would not utilize the three hds I had purchased. I had an 80 gig hd for the os, programs, and mp3s and two larger hds 120 and 200 gigs for the drv storage and it wouldn't use them. It also wouldn't connect to my lan to get showtimes. (knopmyth the quickest and easiest to try tho so I recommend trying it if you have a burner and the bandwidth maybe you'll get lucky like Mr. Personality)

I got new equipment because a few flavors of linux said something like "kernal panic: failed test to see if hardware was made after 2000" and wouldn't boot. wth was that about anyway?

The last install seems to be suscessfull. I used Fedora 4 on dvd. I was hung up a long time on a bad public key that I couldn't update. But I found that on a forum.

Of all the websites about mythtv this one has the most exhaustive howto I have seen. http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/

Still the year of low-def self-built PVR's...

[cbreaker]

Because of the greed of the cable and satellite providers, we won't be building our own MythTV boxes to support HDTV anytime soon, if ever.

There's no cablecard capture cards yet. While Microsoft has made some deal with CableLabs to get CableCard support in MCE sometime this year perhaps, it's all encrypted with proprietary encryption systems and will require an HDCP-enabled HDMI display. It will be more useless then an HDTV PVR from the cable company. Basically, you'll be able to add more storage if you want. That's just about all the difference. It effectively eliminates Open Source from the equation.

Which is crap, because you just know the cable and satellite companies are using Linux systems for lots of stuff. But they won't let other people use it for *their* stuff.

I know that they want some level of copy protection, but this HDCP and cable/sat encryption secure-path bullshit seriously hinders the proliferation of HDTV and the average consumer's ability to fairly use content.

Too late for HTPC

[Subrafta]

Six months ago I really wanted to build / buy an HTPC, now I don't see the need.

My Tivo is part of my home network and easily plays movies, music, and displays photos from my PC through my home theatre (in addition to being a very effective and hackable PVR). My iPod doesn't connect to the network natively, but is happy to provide audio and video to my HT. And with the right gadgets it can do pretty much anything else, like connect to my network and stream Internet radio. Pretty sure the Tivo can do that too if I ever bother to look into it.

For now I'll be keeping my PC a big, bulky, general-purpose device that integrates with the entertainment system as needed.

Re:Too late for HTPC

[Dachannien]

But you can never be completely certain that your TiVo won't suddenly stop doing the things you want it to do. At least with a homebrew PVR, you can be sure that some company under the pressure of the content industry won't surreptitiously patch your system and start (for example) deleting your old recorded shows.

Re:Cases? That's the innovation this year?

[el americano]

My thought as well. I was expecting this great advance in HTPC cases only to find those huge mothers. Come on! I want a slim consumer electronics case and some half-height video cards, or better yet a workable riser card system so I can use a cheap, fanless Geforce 5200. The silverstonetek LC19 looked to be the only promising design. So much for the big companies eclipsing the HTPC specialists.

Here's my setup

[5n3ak3rp1mp]

Mac Dual 2.5ghz G5
Apple Cinema Display 30" (which is considerably cheaper than an only slightly larger HDTV display, plus the computer is fast enough to push HDTV content)
TV adapter (EyeTV Wonder USB2)
Fast Internet connection for sucking down content
Bluetooth keyboard for "remote control"
Hideaway desk that fits all of this perfectly and collapses into something considerably less geeky-looking
Aeron chair that can be rolled out of the way
Digital 5.1 sound via Logitech Z-5500
Déck ice blue keyboard
Microsoft wheel mouse optical
iSight with magnet attachment to top of monitor

I have it all set up in the living room in front of the sofa. Works fabulously. I don't own a CD or DVD player (other than the DVD drive), or even a TV for that matter. 100% digital.

I'm certain this setup is cheaper than procuring a separate computer, DVD player, expensive audio equipment, CD player, tapedeck, tivo, etc. etc...

It does

[charnov]

It uses Windows Media Player and all the DRM'd code behind it as the player. It follows almost the exact model of Window Media Center Edition with additional abilities and personal customization. Like I said, check it out. I am also a paying customer of Meedio and if I could get my brand spanking new RF remote to work with it properly, I would strongly recommend it, too.

My approach...

[xchino]

I had a MythTV box for about two years and it did it's job wonderfully. The only problem I had is that I really don't watch that much TV, and MythTV rewuired me to pretty much dedciate an entire system to that task. I finally found a better solution for my needs, and that's just vcr and TVTime. I use TV Time to watch live TV, and VCR + mplayer to watch prerecorded shows. There's a web frontend for VCR, but I don't use it, it's just easier for me to set up cronjobs. So if you're not looking for an HTPC but rather just adding HT capabilities to your main system, I'd suggest a set up like this. There when you need it, out of the way when you don't. No extra processes or services that need to be running.

Re:My HTPCs (plural), you mean

[dragon_imp]

Cool. My SageTV-based HTPC (http://www.terryshometheater.com/htpc) just uses network storage. I also use VNC for control of my network and my HTPC -- in my case, I'm using RealVNC. I've got 500 GB storage in the HTPC and use another 400 GB in another networked computer for accessable remote storage.

For those not familiar with SageTV, you can store directly to other computers on your network, as well as play videos from them.

SageTV also stores in standard .mpg formats, as opposed to the proprietary drm format of Windows Media Center Edition. I've got a comparison of Windows Media Center Edition vs SageTV at http://www.terryshometheater.com/htpc/winmce_vs_sa getv.php.

My little HTPC has 3 tuner/encoder cards. MOST of the time, that's enough. Just like in the world of VCRs, you still need pad your recordings because of networks that get sloppy with their timing.

FireWave? no. Is anyone doing this right?

[commodoresloat]

I have the M-Audio Transit device and it works most of the time, but I have to deal with dropped sound in the middle of movies. After some futzing around (very frustrating to have sound suddenly drop when trying to watch episodes of "24") I found the magic handshake - unplug the transit from USB and replug in to reboot; quit VLC and restart (if it happens while using QT Player there is no need to restart the app) and the sound will come on as the Transit starts up and is recognized by the computer. It doesn't happen often enough to be predictable; just enough to be annoying. The M-Audio docs and website are pretty thin on info. I'd hesitate to buy the other device from them too unless I hear more experiences from owners. (Though I would still recommend that company's music products; I have two sets of their studio monitors and couldn't be happier with them for the price I paid). As for the Firewave, it looks cool but what the hell is the idea behind not including digital output, either optical or coax? They only have direct speaker outputs meaning you have to connect this instead of your amp to your speakers (uhh, no thanks, I want sound from other input sources too) or you need an amp with direct sound inputs for each channel (certainly not too rare but there are surround-sound amps without them) or some kind of device that converts discrete channels to digital (which also seems silly). On top of it, these discrete outputs on the firewave are all mini plugs! Meaning you can't use standard connectors; you need miniplug-to-RCA or whatever. Why would you want this device to perform channel separation - introducing more noise after the signal is converted - when you have an amp that already does that, and why do you want three extra cords running between your computer and your amplifier? This just seems ill-conceived to me.

Is there any company making a decent box to do this with? Something reliable, preferably from an OSX-friendly company (M-Audio seems to be making the OSX software for the Transit as an afterthought).

Re:Mini: HDTV Warning

[commodoresloat]

I do this and it's a good setup overall (except for occasional sound problems - see my other post). But a warning to anyone who wants to try this - don't expect to decode HDTV on the G4 processor. I bought an EyeTV 500 with this and had to trade it in for the 300 model (without HDTV) because the processor was way too slow to decode HDTV without stuttering. I emailed support back and forth for a while and they eventually admitted the computer was too slow even though they advertise it should work with slower processors. They made the exchange without a problem; they also said some people use Mac minis fine with this machine but I had no luck even watching TV acceptably much less recording anything. The non-HDTV version works much better, but of course I am limited to my reception capabilities (I don't use cable TV; there is plenty of signal for both HDTV and regular coming in for free), and there's no HDTV (until I purchase a separate HDTV receiver, which I will eventually). But for my main purpose -- accessing digital media from an external hard drive on my home theater -- this solution works very well.

Looks great!

[commodoresloat]

Especially with the Project-X skin that makes it look like Front Row on a new Mactel computer. But I'm not sure how to use this stuff. I went to the download pages and there are ten different pages pointing to files with extensions like .exe and .dll .... I don't recognize these extensions on any of the operating systems I've used before. This must only run on some obscure OS. Anyone ever seen this stuff before?

Front Row for Mini?

[commodoresloat]

Apple has advertised Front Row as a reason to buy a new iMac and it even comes with the MacBook, but when will they sell a version of this that will work with older Macs? That would definitely improve the interface that you use for this setup (in my case, sometimes I use Sailing Clicker from my phone -- a terrible solution if you have more than a thousand songs or movies; sometimes I use a cool wireless handheld pointing device that looks like a phaser; usually I wind up having to use VNC through a laptop). The remote that comes with frontrow and the interface looks perfect; why aren't they selling that without the new computers? Seems it would be easy and lots of people would want it.

Too many remotes - you only need 1

[ElectroBot]

The Ultimate Remote

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y52/s3th/woman_re mote.jpg

WARNING - Not work safe - Also a "bit" sexist

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

A "bit" sexist?

I'm sorry to have to disappoint you, but its also obviously never been used in real life - otherwise the "fake orgasm" button would show a LOT of wear.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

mmmm... excuse moi... but isn't a fake orgasm totally worthless... for both parts ?

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

mmmm... excuse moi... but isn't a fake orgasm totally worthless... for both parts ?

Remember the movie "When Harry Met Sally?" The restaurant scene? It might be a cliche that men want sex, but women want love, but there's a lot of truth in it.

I'm not pointing this out to be mean or throw stones or anything. Its the way we're made. We might be equals, but we're definitely NOT the same. There is nothing wrong with that, and if "faking it" helps him feel good about himself, why not?

I'm sure you've done the same when we ask "Does this dress make me look fat?" or "How do you like my new hairdo?" And you've learned not to disagree when we look at a closet full of clothes and say "I have nothing to wear!" After all, you're still alive :-)

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

hmmm... I always prefere the thruth but I can see now that it may be the reason for my incompatibility with the rest of the human race.
How often do you look in your closet at think "Oh God, I have nothing to wear!" ? ...and I am quite sure that allmost any woman do know when a dress make her look less-than-perfect.
The reason why I still am alive is probably because I am single... how many women would live together with a nerd who has filled his house with interesting old hardware ?

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Maybe for men, its remotes and gadgets and stuff, and for women, its clothes. That's just the way it works.

Maybe it would be better to explain it in my journal.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

How often do you look in your closet at think "Oh God, I have nothing to wear!" ?

Too often. Its not that there's nothing in there. Just nothing appropriate for that particular time and place. I've tried to explain it here.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

Your journal entry about women is excellent... and it is also an excellent answer for why geeks are fascinated by women.
I can see clearly now that I am not a normal geek, I am always looking for the one tool that can solve all my problems... (this "hunt for the ultimate tool" has just resulted in an Apple PowerBook).
Comments here on /. may be quite long btw. and then, if they are slightly more intelligent or funny than my comments, they can (and usually will) be modded up (or down, if somone don't like them)...
--
Sig. space intentionally left blank.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Thank you for the compliment, though I don't understand the "it is also an excellent answer for why geeks are fascinated by women" part. I thought it would be for the same reasons most men are fascinated by women. Am I missing something?

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

Yes you are missing something... most "normal" men don't like if "it" (whatever it is) is too complicated.

1. first it is a challenge,
2. then (if we understan it) it is boring,
3. or (if we don't understand it) it is broken.

It may be a little oversimplified... but since I am a man I have the right to criticize my own sex, even if I don't understand it. ;-)
The interesting part is that it dosen't matter if it is 2. or 3., it will be put away in the drawer.
for geeks it is different:

1. if we don't understand it
2. then it is a challenge until it is broken and then it is a challenge to fix it
3. else it is no challenge and completly uninteresting. ( > NUL )

This too is a little oversimplified...
the important diff. is that geeks can identify challenging objects from boring objects... (or am I just and old nerd who dont understand anything ?)

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

So if I understand you correctly, "normal" men think women are "broken", because they don't understand us, and "geek" men want the challenge of breaking and fixing us. Ouch :-)

No wonder there are so few good men out there - they would have to be "abnormal". Oh well, one of these days ...

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

Yes, something like that. :-) ...except I don't remember the part about geek's breaking women.
Anyway, I am from the country where we've got more divorces than weddings so I am a little skeptical about the concept of the ideal family.
There are no good men out there... the few there are, are gay.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

DISCLAIMER: I do not have anything against gays, and I am not gay.

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Barbara, not Barbie]

Yes, something like that. :-) ...except I don't remember the part about geek's breaking women.

Well, you did say this:

# if we don't understand it
# then it is a challenge until it is broken and then it is a challenge to fix it

That's okay - almost all men are "fixer-uppers" by nature - the problem is, they are too busy playing with their latest gadgets to notice the really important things that need attending to until the "we have to talk" stage, at which point its pretty much beyond "fixing." Men don't understand that you can't "fix" a relationship - it grows or dies depending on how you tend to it.

Such is life ...

Re:Too many remotes - you only need 1

[Hymer]

Well, yes... but I there is a slight possibility that it just will not get broken, and I never assume that anything is bought (or manufactured) to get broken. Yeah, I know, I'm old and naive...

That is because the FUBAR point of a relationship is before "We Are Not Talking To Eachother" point... but we usually first discover that we have reached the FUBAR point after we reach the WANTTE point.

Ha!

[SeaFox]

Being that I'm an employee of Time Warner Cable, I can only imagine they would be in favor of media PCs supporting cable cards. Reason being, it's less hardware TWC has to support and purchase for the end-user. It truly would be a win-win for both TWC and the consumer.

ROFLMAO! If you're an employee of TW, you really don't get your employer's business.

TWC is going to HATE the idea media PC's supporting cable cards. There will be a slew of people calling for support for every type of HTPC config under the sun. That in itself will be a training nightmare for phone reps. If they only allow their special Black Box DVR's on the headend, it makes support so much easier for CSR's and the Engineers, there's now only a handful of devices from one or two platforms to watch.

Here's a clue: If cable companie are so hot to have HTPC's on their networks, why do they encrypt the digital signal to begin with?

This is all about control and nickel and dimeing the consumer. Cableco's love DVR's, it's like if they could have charged you a fee for owning a VCR ten years ago to them.

If Myth supported Cablecard, the first thing that would happen is they would have to adopt a DRM-laden file format for the digital cable recordings. The MPAA/studios aren't going to allow a glorified computer to record content in a plain MPEG format. What do you think they're pushing HDMI for? Say goodbye to burning the recordings to DVD and prolly streaming too, they would make sure your CableCard Myth didn't have any way to get data off it's hard disk, just like you TW DVR doesn't. It stores the recordings in their encrypted format they came over the node in, making the shows worthless if you pull the drive from the unit.

Until some major consumer + lobbying action takes place and we get the digital cable signal encryption outlawed (on the grounds it inhibits Fair Use). You're not gonna see the Digital Cable MythPVR we all really want anytime soon.

Re:Ha!

[DigiShaman]

ROFLMAO! If you're an employee of TW, you really don't get your employer's business.

I know more about the cable industry far more than you give me credit for, trust me.

TWC is going to HATE the idea media PC's supporting cable cards. There will be a slew of people calling for support for every type of HTPC config under the sun. That in itself will be a training nightmare for phone reps. If they only allow their special Black Box DVR's on the headend, it makes support so much easier for CSR's and the Engineers, there's now only a handful of devices from one or two platforms to watch.

Current cable card specs are not two-way. In fact, cable card v2.0 hasn't been ratified last I checked. None the less, it's to be expected being that most of TWC revenue comes from VOD (porn provides the cream of the crop which is the dirty little secret most people don't talk about in public).

I support HDTV's that can use cable cards. If a customer decides to use a cable card rather than a set-top-box, we issue out a Scientific Atlanta cable card. Using both the card and its host ID, we can provision what he can and cannot get based on his channel plan he opts for. That said, we do NOT support the TV, only problems regarding poor reception and channels not coming in. If the customer has any questions about equipment features, we direct them to their TV manufacture. End of story. Nuff said. Should these media TVs support cable cards or even cable cards that provide two-way, expect the same level of support.

Here's a clue: If cable companie are so hot to have HTPC's on their networks, why do they encrypt the digital signal to begin with?

The answer is obvious! It's to prevent THEFT of cable service. You do know theft of cable service is a felony, right? Unless you have authorized equipment (cable card or box), you will be explicitly denied access. I suppose you think Dish Networks should have their service unencrypted too?

This is all about control and nickel and dimeing the consumer. Cableco's love DVR's, it's like if they could have charged you a fee for owning a VCR ten years ago to them.

BS! Having to pay for the equipment AND support them is a major PITA. And yes, the cost of the equipment is passed down to the consumer (naturally). But if the cable industry can just provide the service and let the customer deal with the hardware, we would come out smelling like a rose in terms of lower cable rates to compete with dish network or future TV-over-IP networks. Why do you think Microsoft doesn't make and sell their PCs? Answer: too much overhead in cost to deal with.

If Myth supported Cablecard, the first thing that would happen is they would have to adopt a DRM-laden file format for the digital cable recordings. The MPAA/studios aren't going to allow a glorified computer to record content in a plain MPEG format. What do you think they're pushing HDMI for? Say goodbye to burning the recordings to DVD and prolly streaming too, they would make sure your CableCard Myth didn't have any way to get data off it's hard disk, just like you TW DVR doesn't. It stores the recordings in their encrypted format they came over the node in, making the shows worthless if you pull the drive from the unit.

Correct, and it's to be expected. You are paying for content meant ONLY for your household and NOT to pirate over the Internet. If you want to rip DVDs and archive the media to your own media PC, fine. But don't expect unencrypted video from the cable company to be stored on the same drive. Of course, I can't speak with assurance that it will be encrypted. But if TWC didn't encrypt them, expect them to be sued by the likes of Sony, WB, Fox, and so forth.

Remember, your cable co and dish network providers do NOT create the media. Their job is to collect and pipe the content to your home. They provide you access to their network, and you are paying a fee to be part of their node.

Until some major consumer + lobbying action takes place and w

Re:Ha!

[SeaFox]

"TWC is going to HATE the idea media PC's supporting cable cards. There will be a slew of people calling for support for every type of HTPC config under the sun. That in itself will be a training nightmare for phone reps. If they only allow their special Black Box DVR's on the headend, it makes support so much easier for CSR's and the Engineers, there's now only a handful of devices from one or two platforms to watch."

Current cable card specs are not two-way. In fact, cable card v2.0 hasn't been ratified last I checked. None the less, it's to be expected being that most of TWC revenue comes from VOD (porn provides the cream of the crop which is the dirty little secret most people don't talk about in public).

What do current cable card specs have to do with engineers wanting to reduce the number of hardware configurations they have to support? Two-way cable cards will be popping up just as soon flat panel TV's become a little more rampant. TW isn't going to want customers having to choose between a clean Cable Card install on their $3000 flat panel and having access to VOD over the old bulky box, it just becomes a roadblock to a revenue stream.

That said, we do NOT support the TV, only problems regarding poor reception and channels not coming in. If the customer has any questions about equipment features, we direct them to their TV manufacture. End of story. Nuff said.

Most consumers don't/can't make those kind of distinctions. Yesterday I talked to a woman who's cable service went out whenever she turned on her VCR (obviuosly becuase it was interupting the signal from her digital box broadcasting on Ch. 3). She considered it a problem with her cable service despite the fact it only happened when her VCR was operating. For another example, try working for a cableco that disables (perhaps deliberately) the S-Video port on their boxes. After a couple dozen calls from angry TiVo users, it gets pretty clear customers don't care what you do and do not support, if their service was working a certain way before or they have been told this is how you solve issue X for Y hardware device, and it doesn't work, they generally will call YOU and hold your company responsible.

"If cable companie are so hot to have HTPC's on their networks, why do they encrypt the digital signal to begin with?"

The answer is obvious! It's to prevent THEFT of cable service. You do know theft of cable service is a felony, right? Unless you have authorized equipment (cable card or box), you will be explicitly denied access.

1) So why weren't Cable-Ready TV's made illegal back in the day? If every had been forced to get analog converters it would have been easier to prevent theft of service on analog cable.

2) Many European and Asian countries do not encrypt digital cable, and I don't see them collapsing under enormous piracy problems. What you do see is higher adoption of digital service and better home built PVR's. The idea that "we have to encrypt it, otherwise the pirates will drive us out of business" is the same nonsense the RIAA peddles saying that unless they can add DRM to all CD's they'll go out of business. Nothing more than false truths spread to prop up outdated business models and justify draconian meansures that are really menat to wring a few more dollars a month from consumers.

if TWC didn't encrypt them, expect them to be sued by the likes of Sony, WB, Fox, and so forth.

You mean like how they got sued fifteen years ago for not preventing people from recording analog cable with their VCR's? Oh wait, that didn't happen. Because recording for personal use (on media the customer owns and can play on any VCR they wish) was an idea protected by Fair Use. Digital cable boxes make it a lot harder to steal service, but they also (convienently) render most standard recording devices (VCR's, DVD recorders) worthless when it comes to unattended recordings, and prevents consumers from taking advantage of the most basic use of a record

Re:Ha!

[DigiShaman]

What do current cable card specs have to do with engineers wanting to reduce the number of hardware configurations they have to support?

In product volume, cable cards are cheaper than boxes. The problem is, current cable card specs do not provide two-way communication. This is a problem on two fronts. First, customers can't order VOD and thus contribute to the revenue stream. Second, remote diagnostics can't be run from our call center which makes troubleshooting a pain in the ass. When it comes to cables issues with cards, 9 out of 10 times we have to roll a truck and THAT costs money right off the bat. If we can get two-way cable card installed on customers own equipment, it will be a virtual panacea.

After a couple dozen calls from angry TiVo users, it gets pretty clear customers don't care what you do and do not support, if their service was working a certain way before or they have been told this is how you solve issue X for Y hardware device, and it doesn't work, they generally will call YOU and hold your company responsible.

Clearly, you are not doing your job in regards to customer service. You may be the cable genius at the technical level, but if you can't point out the problem to the customer and why it's not the cable company's problem, then you have a serious communication issue.

Fact is, customers WILL bitch moan and cry about media equipment setup. Sorry, we don't support install for your own equipment. I will over the phone (and techs out in the field) connect our cable box direct to your TV and that's it. If you want to change that configuration, you're on your own. Bye bye, contact 3rd party for further help.

Same this applies to Internet access. I will verify over the phone that network connectivity is established via tracert and ping commands at the prompt. Once done, customer now knows they will need to contact their PC vendor or Symantec/MacAfee should it turn out their enabled firewall is blocking access. And NO, will not fix your damn PC over the phone. Dell, Microsoft, and your anti-virus vendors don't pay us to FIX their problems. In short, if it's our modem causing problems and/or you can't pull an IP address then I will send a tech out. But if I can be proven over the phone it's not our issue...you're on your own.

1) So why weren't Cable-Ready TV's made illegal back in the day? If every had been forced to get analog converters it would have been easier to prevent theft of service on analog cable.

2) Many European and Asian countries do not encrypt digital cable, and I don't see them collapsing under enormous piracy problems. What you do see is higher adoption of digital service and better home built PVR's. The idea that "we have to encrypt it, otherwise the pirates will drive us out of business" is the same nonsense the RIAA peddles saying that unless they can add DRM to all CD's they'll go out of business. Nothing more than false truths spread to prop up outdated business models and justify draconian meansures that are really menat to wring a few more dollars a month from consumers.

You don't get it, do you? If you want digital cable service, you have to PAY for it. The reason why it's encrypted is to prevent theft of service from TWCs network. Maybe you're to young for this, but analog cable theft was major fucking problem in the 80s. We are talking about neighbors leaching off another neighbors cable with a splitter. Bunch of wankers they are... It was blatent THEFT!

As for DRM, I'm all for it when used in a fair way. If you do not agree with DRM and the fact it's used, then don't support products that use them. You are free to make that choice. You have the power to vote...one dollar at a time.

Try riding a bike, lift weights or something for a change. There IS more to life than just entertainment media.

Re:Ha!

[SeaFox]

Clearly, you are not doing your job in regards to customer service. You may be the cable genius at the technical level, but if you can't point out the problem to the customer and why it's not the cable company's problem, then you have a serious communication issue.

Sometimes the problem isn't so easy to point out. Take you internet example, how do you "prove" to the average customer their inability to get online is from a NIC/Windows issue when there isn't another PC there we can plug right up and get going? It doesn't help that when they call Dell the first words out of the rep's mouth there is always "Call you ISP, it's their issue."

People want their cableco/ISP to support these issues/equipment due to lack of support from the other vendors. If you had an issue with your VCR, do you have a number to call for that? I got two calls last year from people trying to hook up new printers.

Fact is, customers WILL bitch moan and cry about media equipment setup. Sorry, we don't support install for your own equipment. I will over the phone (and techs out in the field) connect our cable box direct to your TV and that's it. If you want to change that configuration, you're on your own. Bye bye, contact 3rd party for further help.

Customer's expect that if they are having to pay for an install, the tech will install to their specifications. The most common problem is our techs hook up HDTV's with the component outputs and many people want things hooked up for "the best picture quality". Had a guy two days ago who had a projector with a proprietary HD interface, and an adapter to hook it up to DVI output. As far as I could see the adapter was the problem becuase he wasn't getting picture on the projector unless he used the component outs, his take was the box wasn't outputting to the DVI at all and that's why it wasn't working. When I left him he was going to hook up a DVI computer monitor to the box.

You don't get it, do you? If you want digital cable service, you have to PAY for it

Why do you keep pushing this idea that I want free Digital Cable? I'm not a pirate looking for free digital. But as a consumer, I want to be able to do with my digital cable what I can already do with my analog cable. Digital Cable may offer better picture and sound (something that has little benefit to most consumers hooking straight to set) and more channels, but it if reduces functionality that's not progress.

The reason why it's encrypted is to prevent theft of service from TWCs network. Maybe you're to young for this, but analog cable theft was major fucking problem in the 80s. We are talking about neighbors leaching off another neighbors cable with a splitter. Bunch of wankers they are... It was blatent THEFT!

Did you entirely miss my last paragraph in my previous post? The one about "open interfaces"? There were two solutions right there that would prevent neighbors sneaking up and leeching off paying customer lines, while allowing the paying customer added use of their service. If someone else wanted to leech of their service then, they would have to get into the guys house and hook up off his box (something the customer might notice I think). Then you can take both the leech and the subscriber to court! The cable doesn't need to be encryted to prevent leeching once it's inside the customer's house.

If cablecos are only encrypting lines to prevent leeching of service, why don't they give customers as many boxes as they want for free? Surely the money saved from lack of leeching makes up for the support costs of the boxes? If it doesn't then the encryption is just an example of non-cost-effective DRM. If it costs more to support the encryption system than the losses from theft of service if it wasn't encryted, it makes more business sense to leave it unencryted. There would no reason to keep the system this way unless the purpose was really to make more money off customers having to pay per TV for service.

As for DRM, I

Re:Ha!

[DigiShaman]

Sometimes the problem isn't so easy to point out. Take you internet example, how do you "prove" to the average customer their inability to get online is from a NIC/Windows issue when there isn't another PC there we can plug right up and get going? It doesn't help that when they call Dell the first words out of the rep's mouth there is always "Call you ISP, it's their issue."

Isolate the issue. If through process of elimination the problem is with the cable modem, a service call can be setup. If you can *prove* it's a problem with the PC, then it's YOUR job to educate the customer as best as possible with what course of actions they need to take in regards to who they should talk to next. For example, if they had their PC formatted and reinstalled but are now missing drivers for their NIC, it's bloody obvious they need to talk with their PC vendor/manufacture. In fact, I will even go to their website and provide the customer with the number. But I refuse to fix the problem if it's not ours for two reasons.

1. We are not being paid by the other company to service their customers.

2. It's a legal liability issue. Trust me; I've watched how that movie plays out. The ending gets ugly!

Customer's expect that if they are having to pay for an install, the tech will install to their specifications.

That depends. If a customer has a 30 grand high-end entertainment rig, no way in hell is that tech going to spend all day to fine tune an recalibrate the acoustics and video to match the technical output specifications of the box (hue, color, brightness, audio gain, surround...ect). What our techs will do is make sure our equipment is connected to his TV so that we can verify its operation within specs. If the customer wishes to use composite with audio or S-Video cables, they're on their own (officially). Some techs I know will actually go the extra mile if the customer already has the cables and the TV supports them. But that's about it. Otherwise, it's just an RF coax cable from the box to the TV.

The most common problem is our techs hook up HDTV's with the component outputs and many people want things hooked up for "the best picture quality". Had a guy two days ago who had a projector with a proprietary could see the adapter was the problem becuase he wasn't getting picture on the projector unless he used the component outs, his take was the box wasn't outputting HD interface, and an adapter to hook it up to DVI output. As far as I to the DVI at all and that's why it wasn't working. When I left him he was going to hook up a DVI computer monitor to the box.

Unless the customer is willing to pay for a DVI or HDMI cable, we only supply component cables. Also, the Scientific Atlanta 8000 DVR box doesn't yet have it's DVI port activated (I've been informed by some techs that they are now active, but it's not "officially" confirmed). Why SA didn't activate it is beyond me. We've been bitching about it to them to have it enabled. But the 3250 HD and 8300 HD DVR do have active DVI/HDMI ports.

As for the DVI problems, they are due to devices not supporting HDCP protocol. Unless your projector was designed and marketed for the home entertainment industry, there is a very good chance the DVI port is not HDCP compliant.

It's no big secret the cablecos want to drop all analog cable feeds and go to all digital for more efficient use of bandwidth. The change to all digital broadcasting will just make that easier as there will be less of a reason to put analog tuners in TVs to start with. Yeah, the cablecos could change the current analog feeds to unencrypted digital which wouldn't require a converter to descramble, but why do that when we can just lump them in with our already encryted signal and get everyone on the pay-per-TV model!

I agree. They could do this, but they won't due to competition. While your local cable company has a monopoly of the physical cable infrastructure, they do NOT have a monopoly on the services they provide. We already hav

Re:Ha!

[SeaFox]

If you can *prove* it's a problem with the PC, then it's YOUR job to educate the customer as best as possible with what course of actions they need to take in regards to who they should talk to next. For example, if they had their PC formatted and reinstalled but are now missing drivers for their NIC, it's bloody obvious they need to talk with their PC vendor/manufacture.

Yeah, the fun part is when it's a brand new PC they just took out of the box and the NIC had no driver installed at the factory or is otherwise not working.

Unless the customer is willing to pay for a DVI or HDMI cable, we only psupply component cables. Also, the Scientific Atlanta 8000 DVR box doesn't yet have it's DVI port activated (I've been informed by some techs that they are now active, but it's not "officially" confirmed). Why SA didn't activate it is beyond me. We've been bitching about it to them to have it enabled. But the 3250 HD and 8300 HD DVR do have active DVI/HDMI ports.

These are the 8300 DVR boxes. The plain HD boxes have DVI, and no HDMI, and the DVR ones have HDMI but no DVI. I mean no port at all, not ones that are there but don't exist.

As for the DVI problems, they are due to devices not supporting HDCP protocol. Unless your projector was designed and marketed for the home entertainment industry, there is a very good chance the DVI port is not HDCP compliant.

Hmmmm. I'll file that under "information I should have been told in training, but was glossed over/never given" also probably filed under "stuff we don't really support" for the cableco.

It would be foolish for any local cable company to not have these remote diagnostics available. The more data you can gather at the headend or with customer service, the less truck rolls you need to provide. While the costs for implementing such tools are expensive, the investment is easily recouped when you're no longer burning money on truck rolls with a problem that could been easily resolved over the phone with the customer.

No arguemant here. But the executives who make the decision to outsource are usually trying to implement the change for the least money possible so the savings for the company are as large as possible. Let the operations guys find an excuse for all the extra truck rolls, he can take credit for the support cost change (off one balance sheet, onto someone elses ;-). When I did dialup support for the first company I covered, I had a limited shell account on a machine on the company network running homerolled Linux, and Matt's Traceroute. That made pinpointing latancy and packet dropping a real snap, but that's something I have to get access to from them. I can't get WinMTR to run right on our machines, even though I can do pings and traceroutes from the command prompt, and even if I could I can't ping devices like modems with only internal IP's.

alternative is a pda

[blackest_k]

you might like to check this site out if you have a pda
available
http://www.pdawin.com/tvremote.html

it can use ccf files so you can design your own remote system

http://www.pdawin.com/ccf.html

Philips give away the software to allow you to design your own system.

The pda can learn all your commands operate via voice and you can create macro's to set up your systems.

alternatively there are the one for all universal remotes
http://www.hifi-remote.com/ofa/
is a great site for owners of this remote brand.
these remotes have a flash memory as well as a rom and they are fully programable using a 6 pin header.
i built my programing lead from a 25 pin serial port with a 10 pin idc connector on the other end all it took was 2 1k resistors and a diode.

both alternatives are reasonable and a 6 device oneforall remote is about £20 from argos.

MCE 2005 allows shortcuts

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a question, why do you store anime as data and not video? Is this a better storage option for some reason? Could anyone provide more information about this?

Here ya go

[tacokill]

Alright smartass, here's your link

Although the article claims this is the only one, I have seen another one. Been searching and searching for that link with no luck and I can't recall for the life of me where I saw it. But it's out there. Nonetheless, this should be sufficient to show you that there WILL be HDTV capture cards with CableCard support built in. And if you don't think SOMEONE is going to make on "off-spec" that will work as we want it to, you are kidding yourself.

Yes, this is for Vista only - at this point. But it shows that it is "possible" to make one. And there are plenty of over seas makers that will be happy to create better working cards for us (ie: no Vista DRM). You can count on it.

Re:Here ya go

[Jherek Carnelian]

So, you found the link to the card that was exactly as descibed - locked up in DRM. Then you wave your hands and say that something else is out there, or will be out there. So, basically the only evidence you've got for your claims disproves them, but you go on to re-assert them again now with even less supporting evidence than you had the first time. I may be a smartass, but you are clearly a wrongass.

And there are plenty of over seas makers that will be happy to create better working cards for us (ie: no Vista DRM). You can count on it.

Yeah, just like there are all those overseas makers of commercially available DirecTV and Echostar decrypters...

DogDude: Life and times of a petulant cock-gobbler

[Anonymous Coward]

DogDude, you're a petulant cock-gobbling sycophant to Bill Gheyts! Quit taking DP from Ballmur's feculent cock and why don't you try to stop sucking quite so much? Get out of your fucking pet store and see the real world - maybe then you'll see how pathetic you sound, with your neverending stream of bullshit about how Microsoft is so awesome. Wasn't it you who said that Linux Torvaldyos believes your insane ranting is actually a threat to him, so he PAYS PEOPLE to reply to you on Slashdot? No sir, I don't get any money. I do it for the love. Someone has to go up against your insipid whining. So get back in your cage and shut the fuck up already.