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Sex and the Modern MMOG
My alma mater MMORPGDot has a review of the 'adults-only, subscription-based, independently-developed Sci-Fi Fantasy MMORPG set in London a hundred years from now'. It's a social MMOG, and one with more social options than you'll find in most commercial games. From the article: "Sex is not a mere role-playing concession in Sociolotron; it is a fully-baked and detailed gameplay mechanic. Players can engage in both consensual and forced sexual relations with other players and some NPCs- and believe it or not, sex serves a number of important purposes in the game. (Aside from the whole heir thing, the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions, and the game provides a variety of methods for collecting these substances.) Sex is really a sort of minigame in Socio, and before you utter the words 'Hot Coffee,' understand that this is no mere rhythm exercise. It's actually so complex a process that I'll only touch on a few details here."
Umm... doesn't "forced sexual relations" seem in rather poor taste ?
Or is the argument supposed to be that if you can have violence in games then it's fair play ? Ugh.
It's actually so complex a process that I'll only touch on a few details here
So Many Options to make fun of Zoink
So I guess the only appropriate question is, when will it support a force feedback "joystick"?
WTB Assblocker 3000 PST.
The players will create it for us. Its the same kind of sandbox approach I that fills me with disdain in some other notable "games".
/., probably get enough activity to justify its existance from that.
I'll give them credit for having a hook, but at this point it would seem they need to focus as much as possible on that hook. And for this kind of thing I think there are plenty of text-based MUDs that already do this pretty well... (shrug). A coup getting a story on
The review reads like sophistry, as the verdict was decided in advance and most of it was an exercise in financing what had been already decided.
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
Now the geeks can see what they've been missing all these years. Level Up! Dildo Upgraded! 50 Pts!
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
You know having sex in a MMO is interesting and could ad a bit to character interactions (now having a wife in a game may actually mean something)> having forced sexual relation may be in poor taste, but I honestly don't see it that much worse then PKing. The thing that I am having a problem with is:
"the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions"
That is just getting nasty.
---
Healer: Oh shoot! Leroy is getting low on life.
Healer: Quick get me some components so I can make a potion!
Group: Fap fap fap
understand that this is no mere rhythm exercise.
Everyone knows that the rhythm method doesn't work anyway.
This is just the first time someone bothered to give it graphics. And possibly the first time you were charged for the privledge, but I'd have to check my facts on that one...
You may return to your "robe and wizard hat" quips now.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
3....2.....1 Ah hello Jack Thompson.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This is not "pure" roleplay, you really can be a rape victim within the game and there is nothing you can do about it EXCEPT in the same way that we stop it in real life. The game seems to record all actions and create crimes wich more moral players can solve.
This is an intresting way to do PvP. the most intresting chance however is not that they added the option of rape but that they really seem to try to create a player run justice system.
There would seem to be definite disadvantages to being a griefer in this game.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Do you ever wonder if there's some player out there with lots of money and little sense, a figure or group that so hates video games that they go out of their way to fund or publish or otherwise create and promote games that make even real _gamers_ cringe?
rape, torture, murder, if you had to endure one which would you pick?
Reminds me of the old joke where captives have to make that choice. The second captive chooses death, and the response is "Death! But first..."
Fuck Jack Thompson. I am pretty damn sure that this game will strictly enforce 18+. Let the idiot try and bring this before a court and get violently smacked down.
Personally, I love the spat of video game laws that stupid state legislators have tried to pass. Each and every single one without exception has been struck down, and struck down hard. Each time one of these stupid laws are struck down, it just strengthens freedom of speech laws.
Nothing brings a smile to my face like politicians ramming their head violently against the first amendment and looking shocked and confused when it doesn't budge. I welcome this game the legislation that congressmen will attempt to bring about to stop it. It just makes it easier to see which representatives will grow the strength to stand up for the first amendment, and which are pathetic sniveling slime that refuse to take a stand that doesn't instantly sound good in a sound byte. It makes picking who I vote for all the easier.
Fuck'em.
if they can harness the power of three dimensions...
*nt*
I'm not scared of anonymous cowards.
I participated in the beta on 2 different occasions over the course of 4 years, each for a month or so at a time. It was a lark, and my wife thought some of it was hysterical. Honestly, she could watch me play and just laugh. If any of you read "The Sports Guy", Bill Simmons on ESPN.com, you have heard of his Unintentional Comedy Index, or UCI. This game is off the charts. I don't think the game maker nor the players intend for it to be funny, but if you could just be a fly on the wall during "encounters", you'd be rolling in the aisles. In the end, while it was almost morbidly fascinating, I stopped doing the beta each time.
Yes, it was very much suspected that most of the female characters were played by men. It would certainly explain why most female characters role-played being lesbians who loved anal sex. Plus, all the female and male bodies are exactly the same, and the male sex organs are hugely out of porportions to the bodies. You can really tell a man designed everything.
This is supposed to be a MMORPG, but there is little combat and little challenge in the game, overall. It is purely a social game that has combat to taunt people into believing it is a MMORPG. PvP is not something you can turn off after a certain "level" of ability. And, you don't just get killed, but can be raped and then killed. Many "women" takled about the insane amount of fear and adrenalin rush they got when they were kidnapped, raped, and then killed. It was very real to them, as their character was rendered completely helpless.
The game does (or did when I quit the 2nd time) feature PermaDeath as the rule for once you get out of your newbie shoes. You can have children, though, and you or your partner can use that child to be reborn when you are PermaDeathed.
The sex itself... C'mon, that is why you are reading this, right? Don't lie, you pervert! Zip up your pants and read, then!
The sex itself is pathetic. While they give motions and actions you can do, it is mostly poor text (the mispellings are hideous) that drives this show. It is very easy to have 2 characters supposedly going at it, and the guy is laying 2 feet to the left of the girl, but they are both humping air furiously, and the game tells you he is inside her. Many actions require one person to allow the other person to take hold of them. Trust the wrong person, and once that happens, you could be dead.
Roleplaying is a necessity, but the level of the players in the beta was pretty horrible. Most of the male characters were merely sperm donors, and added nothing to their partner's enjoyment by using creative words to enhance the "event". Male characters that could actually type and make it seem more real became sought after. Female characters (probably played mostly by men who had a gift to being descriptive) were usually better at it, but some of them were just as inept.
Character classes are pretty stupid, with not much to offer roleplay opportunities. The exceptions were the Succubi, and the Inquisitors. Succubi had to harvest sperm, and usually harvested it from their own bodies. However, to harvest it, they had to make themsleves immobile, and therefor easy to be killed if anywhere close to public. Inquisitors had to kill sinners, and mostly took on the prostitues that wander about (and are your only real source of combat for the early stages of the game.) They kill them by cutting their heart out.
The beta was constantly plagued by griefers, who were often allowed to carry on, because it was within the design of the game. You want to serially rape and kill female characters, because that is who your character is? Go right ahead! More power to you! And if they catch you and kill you, don't complain. The problem is, these folks took to being a griefer the way a powergamer took to WoW for the first month. They boost characters up fast, and make themselves almost impervious to one-on-one situations. They break into private places looking for toons that are AFK, or not doing anyth
look like UO's "3D" upgrade's graphics. Honestly, if they had a free trial I would play it.
You may be right in that sex has existed in MUDs to an extent - but are they easy to access for younger teenage boys? This is where I see the game's downfall.
Anyone feel like playing a game overrun by hormonally supercharged teenagers? I suppose detailed graphics and potentially quick notoriety won't really support this game well, but I may probably be proved wrong.
Just imagine how bad their typing will be... it's already bad enough but then you add the fact that they're typing it one handed and probably with quite a good deal of physical movement on their part. Ghastly!
If this isn't the perfect oportunity for a desperate 25th level Cleric to conjure up a potion of rohypnol, I don't know what is.
Any game that keeps any sort of number of perverted, griefing, wanna-be rapists out of my chosen game is definately a good thing.
Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
Just look at the responses and posts in this thread. Only one was really informative about the game or subject so far. The rest make jests and jokes about the subject of sex in games. The reason adult content is not found in the US more often is because market research finds these kinds of remarks...giggles, pointed fingers...much like school children who find a torn page of a Playboy issue on the school yard. I for one would love to see sex introduced more in games. While this game seems to revolve around it too much, as a play mechanic, it adds to what we have now. Do you think being able to have sex in games would degrade the game to the point where everyone would be doing it everywhere? If so, what does that say about society? Maybe game rules should enforce sex like real life,ie no public nudity, etc. My point is, until you 'gamers' grow up a bit, this aspect of games will not.
Logically, interactive rape cannot be discussed as truly different than interactive killing.
Certainly I see the argument, but I remain to be convinced. Combat and violence in games often provides the flavour/background for some mechanically interesting gameplay. Also, even in cases outside that category murder is either portrayed by NPCs or is in some way morally justified in the mind of the character you're controlling or is simply closer to comedy than drama.
I don't want to see stuff like rape scenes censored, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with people wanting to be involved with that sort of thing. Your movies example is a good one: I might well appreciate the art of a film in which rape was depicted. However, it's very unlikely I'd appreciate a rape in a film which wasn't a necessary part of the story being told.
Companies don't do stuff like this for nothing. They expect it to be popular. I find it hard to view players in a positive light whose preference is for playing out interactive rapes.
I even considered the topic being worth debating when I first heard it, in the year 2000 or so. Even though it was full of hard to believe outlandish claims (e.g., that you could even perform non-consentual abortions and lob dead foetuses with a catapult; e.g., that the only way to respawn was to be re-born, for example by raping a woman and impregnating her; e.g., that they could support millions of players on a single machine, which no MMO ever could) and the game was every time in a "closed beta" so noone could check those claims, people got in a big debate about it.
Since then, oh looky, there comes again the regularly scheduled PR troll that has just one purpose: to get attention. Complete with yet another claim: this time that you need spilled sperm for potions. Well, gee, that ought to fix crafting.
If MMOs were forum posters, Sociolotron would be the troll/crapflooder posting goatse links in every thread. That's all there is to it. Nothing to see here.
And oh looky, this time a bit down in the thread we even have the ISO-standard astroturfing testimonial post about how lots of women play it (including the poster's wife supposedly), just waiting to be raped and abused, and getting a kick out of it. And no siree, there are no griefers on it, and (unlike what experience showed us on a hundred muds and a few MMOs), player justice really really works here this time. Honest. If that doesn't sound _exactly_ like the astroturfing ads-disguised-as-testimonials for "enlarge your penis" and "find a sex partner in your area" sites, you haven't read your spam mails lately.
So basically I wouldn't take it too seriously.
Then again, _if_ it finally went live, I wouldn't really kill the "worthless fucker signing up to this abomination", as you aptly put it. Think positively. If it gets at least _some_ of the worst retards that plague some other games, and keeps them busy there pretending to rape each other's female character (or ugly sprite thereof), it's a good thing.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Where now is the industry that entertained many's the geek as a lad?
Is it reduced to this? A trenchcoated toilet trader passing out favours for nine pence an hour?
Is this evolution, or devolution? Only one thing is certain. The game will suck....Oh wait.
May the Maths Be with you!
The kids that play WOW and gank all day will love that
I think the point is that with games (and movies) which involve killing it's possible to construct stories which justify the killing (you're a soldier serving your country, a cop defending the innocent, a HazMat scientist with a crow bar etc). The vast majority of games, whatever Jack Thompson and others may think, do this. I'm finding it impossible to think of circumstances where a story can justify rape or torture without making you unambiguously the bad guy. You say that rape and child abuse are portrayed in movies and this is true to some extent but they are never portrayed in a positive light as something the hero would do (well duh!) whereas he or she can kill (if properly justified in story terms of course) without people objecting.
As for freedom of speech and double standards between games and movies I'm not sure that's true since in most western countries (and I believe this applies equally in the US, first amedment notwithstanding) ban pornographic movies which depict simulated rape, torture and murder. Given the new UK regulations on sexually abusive material viewed over the internet this game could actually be illegal here (depending on how it's been implemented).
I recall an article about 10 years ago (at least) where people discussed text-based MUDs (which was all there was at that time), one of which had mechanics such that people could be "virtually raped". Or maybe someone was just being creative with /emote, who knows?
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Just to add to the discussions of the relative evils of PKing, and avatar rape, the essay "A Rape in Cyberspace" by Julian Dibbell is interesting reading for the effect avatar rape can have:
b ell,69273,31.html
http://www.villagevoice.com/specials/0543,50thdib
In real life, I can envision situations where killing is acceptable. I can't imagine any situation at all in which rape or child abuse is acceptable. So there's clearly a difference in real life, and I think there should be one in games as well. If you play as a hero killing the minions of an evil dictator bent on taking over the world, that seems to be a case of justifiable violence. However, there's simply no possible justification for rape, even in a fictional context.
"Sex is not a mere role-playing concession in Sociolotron; it is a fully-baked and detailed gameplay mechanic."
Does this sound like a really bad idea to anyone else? Reminds me worryingly of F.A.T.A.L. (which is an abomination, IMHO).
Consider, why does the game need a gameplay mechanic for sex? Answer, because the outcome is important ("the fluids that are exchanged and spilled during sexual encounters are critical components of some potions") - at that point, I think the game is moving beyond not avoiding sex, and into becoming conceringly focused on it.
I'm sure this has a market, and they're welcome to it, but I wouldn't consider this "Sex and the Modern MMOG", I'd consider it "Sex-orientated MMOG".
Not a direct reply to your comment, but you mentioned Jack Thompson. If you believe his recent mostly level headed interview, he would not have any reason to go against this game, because it isn't being marketed to minors, and you have to be 21 to join.
What's worse: killing someone, or defiling them?
This is a pretty black and white question. Clearly people who would chose death over {insert your least-favorite non-consentual sexual act here} have some level of the same type of psychological issues that people who choose to commit suicide have. Sure {your least-favorite non-consentual sex act} is really, really terrible, but think about it... Could anybody ever have a rational conversation with you where at the end you would say "No, you're right, your life sucks so much you should kill yourself", other than perhaps somebody who is terminally ill already?
I've been playing Socio for almost a year now...I joined the game near the end of the beta phase because of an article I read in Sync and I have to say I absolutely love it! I'm a female in my 30's and I've played both female AND male characters...I love the idea of a game that lets me live my fantasies and explore the darker side of my personality....yes, you can be raped...I have been several times...even had a child by one rapist...I've performed abortions on myself and know of other who were attacked, chained and had forced abortions performed before they were ko'd and all of their possessions stolen....thing is that it's all part of the game....that's the way it's supposed to be but that doesn't mean it happens everytime you walk out of your door....if the act is roleplayed well then even a rape or kidnapping can be fun and interesting... There's such a variety of things to do....harvesting, killing npc's, quests, skilling, rape, sex, marriage, theft, murdering pc's, cults, etc. etc.....the socialization is the best...hanging out in the bar and chatting with everyone is great! Currently I'm a stripper-in-training one of the bars in the city I live in....also a sub in search of the perfect master.... So if any of you who piss and moan about the game without ever having explored it want to give it a try, you can look me up....just call Droxine Cloudminder for a good time!
Jack puts on his "I'm a reasonable man" hat for interviews with the mainstream media (for the most part).
:-)
If you check out some of the comments he posts on various websites, his position is unclear. The most common assertion is that all gamers are stupid, lazy sociopaths, generally on drugs. He claims to only want to legislate the sale of games to minors, but has frequently been known to push for an outright ban on certain types of game.
Check out gamepolitics.com where Jack has become a frequently-posting troll. Every day brings new insults against the entire gaming demographic.
So no, I'm afraid I don't believe his most recent interview.
You say that rape and child abuse are portrayed in movies and this is true to some extent but they are never portrayed in a positive light as something the hero would do
When I was in college (about 10 years ago) I talked with someone who had taken a class on writing romance novels. The class analyzed the genre's conventions, and came to some odd conclusions: it was OK to have the male love interest rape the female lead, but not to portray the heroine masturbating.
"Logically, interactive rape cannot be discussed as truly different than interactive killing. Forcible or consensual "virtual death" can only be as meaningful, or meaningless, as virtual sex, again forcible or consensual.
I do not see logic in this stetement at all. Because the context of killing is usually in a war setting or a good-guy bad-guy setting. But, what setting can you possibly pick that marginally justifies rape? At least in a combat game, or in a cops-n-robber game, the violence is somewhat justified and therefore allows the easy exit from supension of disbelief.
It isn't real."
Maybe not real to most. But children and many young adults have trouble with breaking suspension of disbelief. Some can get very adsorbed in playing the game to the point that they become the character. While many young people objectivly know that rape is wrong, subjectivly, rape becomes o.k in the game to them. Because the objective truth that rape is wrong becomes elevated to the status of a lie, making rape o.k.
This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
Catahoula!
One of the most disturbing posts ever.
You make a compelling point, but you might consider that morally speaking, killing is to murder what sex is to rape. And although the "simulated killing" and "simulated murder" are probably not delineated sufficiently in previous posts, I think the difference validates the point.
Second, the "justified violence" is a bit of a misnomer. Culturally, we tend to accept that "killing the bad guys" in a war is more noble than murdering innocents in cold blood. But psychologically, the army spends a lot of time drilling into soldiers' heads that killing is okay, because when you kill someone, it tends to affect you mentally whether you were justified or not. In war--real war, not usually simulated war--there are also hundreds and thousands of civilian casualties. In this respect, war games actually fail to depict "the real consequences of your actions" in the same way GTA-style games supposedly fail to depict the negative consequences of murder.
"While many young people objectivly know that rape is wrong, subjectivly, rape becomes o.k in the game to them. Because the objective truth that rape is wrong becomes elevated to the status of a lie, making rape o.k."
This is an unfortunate meme. Children are no more or less likely to imitate simulated rape in real life than they are to imitate simulated murder in real life. Which is to say, some mentally disturbed individuals might, but they in all likelihood were already guilty of antisocial or psychotic behavior. Sure, don't let your four-year-old play the game, but that doesn't really seem to be the issue.
Could anybody ever have a rational conversation with you where at the end you would say "No, you're right, your life sucks so much you should kill yourself", other than perhaps somebody who is terminally ill already?
That depends. How long until they respawn?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Hear that bang? I think it was Jack Thompson's head exploding.
Jack puts on his "I'm a reasonable man" hat for interviews with the mainstream media (for the most part).
Netjak isn't in the mainstream media. In fact, it's precisely the type of website that Jack Thompson trolls.
His interview was still full of shit, though.
Rob
Yes, think about the parents ...
...'
to their teenager kids: 'No, you cannot install a script from an untrusted source that increase your e-penis by 10 pixel
or during the mandotory 2 days their must show interest in their kids' brand new XBox 720:
'Hey mum, look, if I fscked the sylvan elf and mix her vaginal fluid with the one of the troll I rape yesterday I can get a 'Pant of Love' + 5'
'Maybe not real to most. But children and many young adults have trouble with breaking suspension of disbelief.'
If you cant tell the difference between real and not real by the age of 21 you have bigger issues than doing terrible things in computer games.
That article is widely regarded by people who have actually played MUDs to be completely stupid and off-base because a "rape victim" can simply log off, walk out of the room, or /ignore. And yes, it was basically "someone being creative with /emote."
Rob
ironically
the review in question was quite accurate
none of the comments were - save one or two (is this where you all try to compensate for your insecurities?)
5 lines is all this venomous self important gang of touch typing baboons deserves
peace
No, see, it's a 21+ adults-only game. That filters out 99% of the griefers.
Wired talked about virtual "rape" in Sociolotron (and whether in has any translation to the real world) back in June 2004.
So you believe that only those 21 and older are playing these games?
This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
Catahoula!
why? because I can admit an interest in exploring a darker side of fantasy? I think it's great that there's a place where you can do that outside of a real life situation....you can do anything you want (for the most part)...of course for some actions there are penalties...committing a "crime" (murder, rape, assault, etc.) does have the risk of going to jail but then you can try to escape without getting pk'd by the auto guns and sent to hell.... It's a much better vacation from reality than Everquest or TSO are....
This is Slashdot, a semi-tech and very narrow-minded peer-group site, not a libertarian forum.
Don't expect them to understand (let alone support) the concepts of "live and let live" or "each to their own". They complain about Jack Thompson's myopia, yet they're just as myopic.
Don't worry about it, live your own life.
Well the method of payment for sociolotron pretty much restricts to 18.
I think my post can still apply.
Otherwise a kid would have to have a parent sign them up (I dont even want to think of how screwed up a parent would have to be to sign up a kid to a game where they can be raped.) or theyd have to nick a card from someone else and you cant exactly blame Sociolotron for the way a child has been raised.
I dont particularly agree with this game, I do think it goes to far, for similar reasons to the ones you posted. That is why I will not be signing up for it and why I hope no one else will either. Beyond that, even if I had the power to do so, I wouldnt do anything to bring the game down or censor it.
@set me=nospoof and STFU
I stand corrected :) I've since checked out the site you mentioned, you're right. Looks like exactly the kind of outlet he'd pick a fight with.