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Doctors Claim Suspended Animation Success
Philoneist.com writes to tell us the Sydney Morning Herald is reporting that US doctors have developed a process to induce hypothermia in trauma patients, shutting down their bodily functions for up to three hours. The process has been proven about 90% effective in trials with pigs and now the doctors would like the go ahead to test it on humans who would "probably die" under normal care.
Surely if your heart is stopped and your brain dead then your soul leaves your body and you go to heaven (or hell) depending on how good you lived your life.
I expect that it only works on pigs, because they are dirty animals and don't have a soul.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
Well, it is not quite suspended animation as the subjects have been cooled to about 10C (50F), so some biological processes do indeed still occur. However, it is below the temperature for most coherent biological processes to continue to function. Furthermore, it has been known for some time that with certain traumas involving CNS or CNS function, cooling has been an effective means of controlling continued damage related to the CNS. For instance, in many CNS traumas such as stroke (ischemic or haemorrhagic), there are cascade reactions that follow the initial insult. These cascades involve Ca+2 mediated events that often result in or are the result of cellular apoptotic pathways being induced which causes further damage. Cooling of the body in a trauma unit tends to limit such damage for reasons that are not completely understood at the basic science level and the free radicals discussed in the article are not the only possibility for damage as there are many protein pumps whose physiology is dramatically altered by temperature and pH changes.
It's too bad that the NIH budget was cut this year (effectively below the rate of inflation) by the Whitehouse and further cut by Congress who, while managing to take care of their own salaries before going on vacation, could not work in the NIH budget to their schedule. As a result, many labs here in the US this year have had to slash this years budget by 12-20% which has a dramatic effect on the success of bioscience research such as this suspended animation work.
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Maybe a few years, decades, to get us to other planets/stars.
Next stop, cryogenics.
I don't get it.
They've been doing this for years now with humans.
I have ten peoplethat I'd like to nominate for clinical trials!
of them to test it on us Humans who would 'probably die'..
90% on pigs, that could be 80% on humans, maybe not. but still, 90% is not the very best...
I think they should first work a little more on it then ask us humans.
http://naerey.switch-case.org
Look out for hypothermia! by Three Brain.
So, can doctors operate on us as if our organs are like a dead human and they donot have to take extra care for vibrations etc which are a real problem in critical operations.
They called me mad, and I called them mad, and damn them, they outvoted me. -Nathaniel Lee
"Brain death occurs in 4-5 minutes Brain can survive for 90-120 minutes"
If they can get past this, they may be on to something here- shame research funding for this was cut.
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
So suspension will stop further damage from ocuring, but the success rate will drop depending on how much damage was already done
The best test environment is production. - Me
chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
I wonder how many times you can undergo this treatment and still be fine. Perhaps one could undergo it several times a night thus lenghtening the time you could potentially live by maybe 30 or 40%. I for one would welcome our new 160 year old overlords.
I used to have a better sig but it broke.
The linked in the story sort of breaks down at the end... I think that the New Scientist might be more informative. However, I don't have a subscription.
Too bad they couldn't figure out a way to do it safely yet, we could use for manned long-duration space travel or just to stick around and get defrosted, Futurama-style.
I wonder how the world will look like in, say, 100 years, but do have the patience (or the stamina) to wait. Maybe Bin Laden will finally have been caught? Maybe Brazil becomes the next world superpower? Who knows?
Give unto Us your sick and elderly and We shall yield a cure for thee.
Memorable Quotes from ... he said it wasn't such a good day to die.
Flatliners (1990)
Nelson Wright: Hello, I'm nice, he's nice, we're both fucking lunatics. Can I come in, please?
David Labraccio: He said
Nelson Wright: Thank you.
Nelson Wright: Today is a good day to die
Nelson Wright: You bring the equipment, I'll bring my balls.
Joe Hurley: I don't know. Not thinking about the past or the future. I don't know it's difficult to explain, maybe impossible.
David Labraccio: Yeah, dying is quite that way.
Randy Steckle: I did not come to medical school to murder my class mates no matter how deranged they might be.
Nelson Wright: Everything matters, everything we do matters.
Nelson Wright: Somehow we've brought our sins back physically. And they're pissed.
Randy Steckle: Good thing I didn't flatline. My 350-pound babysitter would be chasing me for the half-eaten pastrami sandwich I stole from her.
Nelson Wright: C'mon, Billy Mahoney. C'mon... Gimme your best shot. I dare ya. I fuckin' dare ya.
Nelson Wright: Wake up you little shit, you got company!
Rachel: See you soon.
Nelson Wright: Philosophy failed. Religion failed. Now it's time for medical science to try.
David Labraccio: You should have told us, Nelson.
Nelson Wright: You wouldn't have done it.
David Labraccio: At least we would've had a choice!!!
David Labraccio: [screaming at a religious stained-glass portrait] I'm sorry.. we *trespassed* on your... *fucking* territory. God! I'm *sorry*!
7h3$3 4r3n'7 7h3 Ðr01Ð$ ¥0 4r3 £00|{1n9 f0r. M0v3 4£0n9. --OB1
Oh yeah, that's right- I *have* seen this movie once before. Or maybe it's twice.
Fight psychopharmacological mccarthyism. http://www.norml.org/
I will send them a copy of Dean R Koontz "Hideaway" as a congratulatory gift. :)
Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
Today Cryogenics! Tomorrow the World!
The only thing new in this world is the history that you don't know.[Harry Truman]
I'd ask for my body to be frozen, and then thawed periodically every 100 years, just so I knew humanity's history before I die. Then again a lot of people would want to do the same thing and we'd have a body storage problem on our hands.
I wonder how this new technique might improve the own of saving the brain from destruction after an heart attack, as if now it could be safe to get the body much cooler for much more improvement.
You just got troll'd!
A story is posted on Slashdot (US)
Of the Sydney Morning Herald (Australia)
Reporting a story in the New Scientist (England)
Of a bunch of scientists at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston (US)
Can we add a few more levels of indirection here??
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
. as the definition of 'dead' will likely need to be defined in as much turmoil, stupidity, ethnocentricity, and intellectual dishonesty as the definition of 'life' is as regarding pro-creation.
I mean, the first person to survive zero brainwave activity will have questions to answer...
Loading...
I'm sifting through all of the Google hits from my search terms now.
Because he's stiff as granite. Get it?
joke. waste your mod points elsewhere.
"Made up/misattributed quote that makes me look smart. I am on
actually, my understanding is that it's intended exactly as you said - for situations where someone will clearly die before help arrives or they arrive to help, but where there might be time to get them to a suspended state which would let them last until it does, even if 1/10 that would kill them.
.. 'Er, why do you want to eat my brains?'
Three hours is not nearly long enough to get to Mars. What were those Alien movies trying to pull?
I'll agree that pigs are dirtier than other animals if by "dirty" you mean non-hallal, non-kosher or whatever name you give to your dietary restrictions.
What about elephants, that like some mud from time to time? Are they dirty as well? Or fish in an aquarium that constantly swim around their own excrements? Are they any cleaner?
Surely if your heart is stopped and your brain dead then your soul leaves your body and you go to heaven (or hell) depending on how good you lived your life
I remember back in the 80s seeing a movie on TV (so the movie was probably made in the 70s) about a guy who was put in suspended animation because he has some incurable disease. Years later, there was some accident/malfunction that caused his chamber to revive him unexpectedly. Doctors were able to bring him back without a hitch or so they thought. He came back without a soul and became a serial killer. Only his christian mother and her priest suspected the truth.
Anyone out there know what this movie was called?
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
This is interesting, but not quite new. I remember hearing about Soviet surgeons cooling down and effectively shutting down patients' bodies to perform open heart surgery without having to use a heart lung machine. (which were very hard to come by in the Soviet Union)
One of the shows creators revealed in some TV guide or other that had the show got an extra series or two, it would have been revealed that John was in fact the result of an experiment by a mysterious group to gain all the knowledge of the universe. They believed that such knowledge was revealed at the moment of death, hence John was killed and brought back again. But the series got axed before any of that could really be explored.
... Chiller
Birthday question: Birthdays are WAY more practical to time.
Saying someone is dead: Impossible to prove otherwise. Believing so simplifies a lot of things.
Brain activity: Again, hard to prove otherwise, but there should be some room for miracles, right?
I'll start a company that will freeze people and keep them in safe storage for a defined period of time for a maintenance fee. People could keep money in their savings account and freeze themselves for 10 or 100 years, and wake up to collect their money. It'd feel like a long nights sleep and winning the lottery afterwards.
:)
But they'll have to make sure the money is in the right place, with enough interest to pull them ahead of the rest of the country/world, else its all in vain. Therefore we provide long-term financial services too.
I suggest customers buy lots of real-estate around cities with major natural resources and good weather. Hopefully they wont wake right after WWIII to realize their lands cost nothing.
Invesing in gold is not a bad idea either for the long term.
My freezer can take 2 persons. Who wants to be first??
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
I remember seeing an old movie on archive.org in which the Russians were conducting similar sounding experiments with dogs, in the 1940s.
Of the Sydney Morning Herald (Australia)
Reporting a story in the New Scientist (England)
Of a bunch of scientists at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston (US)
With a comment by OzPeter
That got a reply from zanderredux
More?
Read the article first.
These process is recommended for people who would die without treatment. It is intended to keep them alive long enough to get them to a trauma center. Lots of people die from accidents, strokes, heart attacks and the like who could be saved if they could be brought to a level I trauma center fast enough.
So given the choice of 100% or a 10% death rate before you even reach the hospital, which would you choose?
-EvilMagnus
Assuming that the 10% dies because of genetic weakness and an innate disposition towards the procedure, if we were to conduct this on entire populations many times over, the success rate would soon approach 100% because the 10% would always be dying and since their number dwindles, would no longer exist. Excellent idea US doctors.
My page.
The other 90% will have to wait.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
perhaps he's just frozen and will run for usa pres in a few hundred years...
For the suggested use, critical patients, 90% getting to the hospital where 50% can be saved is better than 50% getting there in the first place.
As to space travel, and assuming the method can be scaled up quite a bit longer than a few hours... I hate to say it, but 90% is still good enough. There are people out there willing to take the risk for exploration, or better yet colonization. Put 10 people in stasis for a 50 year trip to [Whichever] Centauri. One of them won't wake up when they get there, and one won't survive the trip back. 2 and 3-fold job redundancy means that cant ruin the mission. Or 100 people for a year to start a colony on Mars. 90 will make it. Those odds arent acceptable to most people, but they are to some, enough to make a plenty large enough candidate pool. I would do it for sufficient compensation to my family.
I always thought it would be funny to get one of those medical alert bracelets that reads "in case of stroke please administer PCP". But then being old, disoriented and in the thrall of a medical emergency might not be the ideal time for your first, mind-altering experience. Heh.
Quack, quack.
Metaphysical issues aside, they still need to investigate the effects of the procedure on memory and cognitive capacity (could try mice and their maze solving before and after hypothermia). Then there are possible long-term effects.
"Doctors from 1742 Claim Suspended Animation Success"
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
This concept is not relatively new. Randomized clinical trials, involving trying to protect the brain, in surgeries like CABG (Coronary artery bypass graft) are taking place for more than 10 years now. 5 years ago, a review of many such trials found that though stroke related deaths decreased by inducing hypothermia, they faced other non-stroke related mortality in operations and overall there was no difference between hypothermia and normothermia. This article http://www.cochrane.org/cochrane/revabstr/AB002138 .htm goes over it in more detail. However, they don't go into the details of to what temperature was the hypothermia induced.
Since CABG is a preplanned procedure as opposed to trauma, I guess inducing hypothermia is different in both settings, and I hope we get some positive results in humans.
> Too bad they couldn't figure out a way to do it safely yet, we could use for manned long-duration space travel or just to stick around and get defrosted, Futurama-style.
Or, like in Gene Wolfe's "New Sun" novels, dumped out unceremoniously by treasure hunters, no differently from the way mummies have been treated.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
The only thing you should get modded down for is that you adhere to the concept of linear time, i.e. "what does the soul do when it is in suspended animation"? That question has already been asked (and channeled :-) ) a couple of
times and the answer is usually the same as what does a process or task do when it's not on the CPU. Nothing.
Just like a program running in a process (without querying some sort of clock) can't tell whether it's been paused
for a million years between two instructions neither can you (you as in your soul I mean). Once you're in suspended
animation you're off "the GREAT CPU". Once you're dead you're off it too and time (which is just the set of changes
the GREAT PROGRAM calculated on the GREAT DATASET (aka the Universe) while you were part of the GREAT PROGRAM, time just
doesn't apply anymore). You might get some more CPU time as you're placed afterwards in other simulation environments
(heaven, hell, your pick really) but that's conjecture because as far as the GREAT PROGRAM is concerned there is no
trap to a hypervisor API I know of that would allow to query what other processes may be on the system.
What if going into suspended animation for short and/or extended periods became common practice for everyone (or maybe only the elite)? Assuming that the process was safe, reliable and inexpensive? Imagine if you could skip winter every year, or sit out an unfavorable situation until enough time has passed that things would be different when you woke up?
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
Suspended animation for up to three hours? I hear suspended animation, I think space exploration. All we need now is faster than light travel that can get the crew between stars in those three precious hours. Half way to insterstellar travel.
If I remember my intro biology correctly they are inducing a state where the mitochondria are the only cells in the body producing any ATP. This has been seen before in people that have been chilled quickly by falling in an icy river for instance. All body functions cease but the mitochondria make enough energy to keep everything alive.
Should we suppose that the remaining 10% died a horrible, cold death?
Even assuming the article weren't talking about terminal patients, death from hypothermia is one of the least horrible ways to go. Your higher brain functions stop working, you become very calm and stop feeling cold, and then you go to sleep.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Just open browser preferences and check "Disable GIF animation".
but I would think trauma victims need all the energy they can get to survive.
In cases of massive injuries, the patient may be bleeding out faster than replacement blood can be pumped in. This procedure could give a surgeon long enough to repair the damage (at least enough to stop the bleeding).
So if we were to encapsulate the whole process into an embedded system to drain/cycle our blood automatically to be done on a daily basis could we extend our lives by 1/3 (the time we should be sleeping?)
you have gotta love:
Moderation +4
30% Flamebait
20% Underrated
10% Troll
I only posted as a joke and to have a dig at religion.
And you analogy to "being paused" is valid, if God did exist it's not like we can trick him.
"In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell
They've done this with dogs successfully before. I think it was posted here on Slashdot too.
/ detail.html%20/4668289/detail.html
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/video/4668289
"you sonofabitch i didn't know!"
Why they celebrate birthdays and not conception days (they're so adamant at trying to control non-believers definitions of "life").
Because the mental image of your parents performing the act that led to your conception is icky.
These guys injected AMP into mice, which dropped their body temperatures by 10 degrees in just 10 minutes, triggering hibernation. Sounds like the ultimate sleeping pill! http://www.lef.org/news/LefDailyNews.htm?NewsID=32 93&Section=DISEASE
this is all about what you might call the "code blue clock" if your heart stops for 2 hours? then you are D E A D and talking with the monty python parrot. using this method i would guess the clock stops (unless you thaw)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Bear with me here, this is a direct response to Dephex_Twin's post.
.. you get a buzz because they are demonstrating freely that you have made them happy.
... we enjoy far more the hot weather than if it was just hot all the time.
..." ... if we were excited by everything we'd just be an automaton programmed to giggle and beam with glee.
..." ... then the world would be a wonderful place of sweetness and light ...???! Doh!
... rapists make God sad ... if he didn't think up these concepts and incorporate them into his universe ... " ... need I go on?
Imagine you bear a child of your own flesh and blood. You delight in them smiling at you (when you can be reasonably certain they are acting in a cognisant manner)
Now imagine if at birth you'd had that child operated on so that their face displayed a permanent smile. Would that mean you'd take the same delight?
Another simpler parallel is for those of us who live in places where the weather is bad a lot of the time
My view: God gave us a mind, that we can choose - I don't claim to understand the manifold layer between freewill and determinism but I think we live in it - if we choose to acknowledge him and his ways, he delights in us; if we choose to shun him and/or follow a path of evil he's not so happy with us. But he wouldn't be any happier with us if he just made us into robots without a mind to choose our own path.
Another few thoughts:
"God didn't have to create dullness
Well perhaps he wanted to create a system in which some change occurred; eg dark and light; matter no matter; heat and absence of heat
"I can't think of any reason that God would make the universe where bad things could happen to anyone
No, you're not omniscient are you. Perhaps God should have just made a single mind that delighted in greyness, and only one thing for that mind to perceive and that thing being itself greyness
Seriously though, you have a good point, why God would allow mankind to turn their backs on him, and then come to them in the form of a man and die so that men could return to a right relationship with Him - baffles me too.
"It makes no sense that people like
Assuming God made man to procreate by intercourse: that's all the equipment. Then if man has freewill
Kids falling into cold water and surviving happens quite often.
;-)
There is something to kids which makes it easier for them to survive this than for adults. Now that would be a research topic
Anyway, I believe it would be wise to first get heart and breathing of a rescued person going before wrapping them in a warm blanket.
I'm still trying to figure out what people mean by 'social skills' here.
> Why they celebrate birthdays and not conception days (they're so adamant at trying to control non-believers definitions of "life").
Celebrating birthdays is almost universal human custom, it has nothing to do with "definition of life" or christian belief at all.
> Why they believe one ascends to heaven immediately upon a man saying they are dead.
This is not a part of christian belief. Some people calling themselfs "christians" might believe it but it doesn't mean it is a church dogma.
> Why they believe that one who has no brain activity but body life might still be considered alive on this earth.
I suppose it is based on presumption that brain activity in living body could be somehow reinitiatied. However, if the body is dead the brain is dead as well (it has no activity) i.e. the human is dead.
(Excuse my poor English, please)
Happy fuckday to you!
...and many more!
Happy fuckday to you!
Happy fuckday, dear John!
Happy fuckday to you!
News for merdes. Shit that matters.
Ask me about my sig.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17649225-1376 2,00.html
US scientists have succeeded in reviving the dogs after three hours of clinical death, paving the way for trials on humans within years.
Pittsburgh's Safar Centre for Resuscitation Research has developed a technique in which subject's veins are drained of blood and filled with an ice-cold salt solution.
The animals are considered scientifically dead, as they stop breathing and have no heartbeat or brain activity.
But three hours later, their blood is replaced and the zombie dogs are brought back to life with an electric shock.
There's a difference between "inducing hypothermia" and "inducing and then reversing the effects of clinical DEATH"
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Should we suppose that the remaining 10% died a horrible, cold death?
Would be somewhat funny if they only tested it on 1. (hmm... it was `ok'; sort of... maybe 90% ok).
"If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy
Those who sacrifice security to condemn liberty deserve to repeat history or something. - Benjamin Santayana
I'll start a company that will freeze people and keep them in safe storage for a defined period of time for a maintenance fee. People could keep money in their savings account and freeze themselves for 10 or 100 years, and wake up to collect their money. It'd feel like a long nights sleep and winning the lottery afterwards.
I can't remember it off the top of my head but Captain Picard was talking with a guy they revieved from the 1990's and he said:
Frozen Guy: Well I bet all my investments have made me a killing!
Picard: But we don't have a monetary system in the Federation. More or less we don't have money anymore. Everything is provided by this nifty replicators. Earl gray please!
Frozen Guy: Oh my... Um... Yeah...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Perhaps this might important for cryogenics, further research in this direction might allow for revival of cryogenically preserved patients.
If there was ever a time when I was glad I'm not a pig, it's NOW! Sheesh. Put them out of their experimenal multi-gunshot simulated injury misery and just salp them alongside my eggs.
Because that is none of your damn business!
Join Tor today!
Yeah, but you sure won't be impressing any of the (female) nurses once that hypothermia hits, if you know what I mean.
does the subject retain memory, cognitive skills and motor skills after this induced hypothermia? maybe someone with access to the new scientist article could respond. people would fear this mode of treatment as much as chemical anaesthesia if these are not analyzed in their entirety.
Unfreeze him! Pleeeeeease the Red Sox need him back in the lineup!
I can vouch for this experience 100%. After a long, cold and very wet route march across the South Downs (a particular Brit Army training exercise), I plonked myself down in a window seat on the bus to take us back to barracks and passed out from exhaustion. Some moron opened that window while I was sleeping with the result that I experienced 50mph windchill for the next two hours in wet clothing while completely immobile - no need for snow or 30 below zero weather.
When we go to the other end, I vaguely remember feeling warm and comfortable but strangely unable to move. I also remember being surrounded by clearly panicking instructors who were bellowing at me not to go to sleep while they manhandled me to the hospital. It was very surreal - like you're watching yourself from outside with a mixture of detachment and fascination. Mountaineering tales I've read describe the same thing: a sort of pleasant warmth even while you're looking at your frostbitten fingers and a very strong desire to take a "short nap."
Death by freezing would have felt pleasant I'm sure. On the other hand, being warmed up slowly was the worst experience I've ever had bar none because then you start feeling how cold you really are - and the feeling continues for days. I can't remember what my core temperature had dropped to but it was dangerously low.
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
...they've created republicans in a laboratory!
..., the Wi-Fi reception in my apartment is abysmal. How will my consciousness access Fark and Slashdot?
-Steve G
There was also an episode of House where Dr. House chilled a girl down, drew out all her blood, and then reinfused to find the
source of a tumor. Worked like a charm.
There was a short story by this title that covered this idea many years ago. A woman had her late husband frozen until his disease could be cured, and technology allowed him to be revived from cryogenic suspension. He was brought back...and immediately started crying like an infant. He quickly began 'relearning' language and other skills, but it became clear that the mind in his body was somebody else's, someone who died the instant he was brought back to life. Obsessed, she decides to keep freezing him and bringing him back until she can get her husband's soul back in his body. Her best friend objects, since she is effectively killing someone every time she brings her husband back. A struggle ensues, and she is accidentally killed. The friend allows the husband to thaw, dying permanently. The story ends with him months later, drawing up papers to adopt the child born at the instant the wife, who he had always loved, died.
This is why soldiers in combat in cold regions such as Falklands war didnt die fast, and survived lots
of bullet wounds, even tho in vietnam, much lighter injuries caused death faster.
It makes sense though, coldness is like the slowing of 'time' but slowing chemical reactions.
Even cold surgery can be done, to have a higher success rate.
This is the new medical equivelent of 19th century anesthetics/drug treatments (makes me quiver at the live amputations they did in the 18th century - totally sick, and they had heroin from asia that they could have used , what idiots)
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Dude, even partial cooling is better than dieing.
Just beacuse there is a 1% chance the ambulance will crash doesnt mean we dont use them. Just like a 747, all safety is based on probabilities.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
When I want to suspend animation I simply press the PAUSE button on my VCR remote.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Q)2001 A Space Odessey Trivia. What was the temperature that the three Scientists HAL let die (killed) were suspended at?
A) +3 C"No fear. No envy. No meanness." Liam Clancy
lol... that is what i was thinkin'
Dude, you are comparing feeling a little chilly to having a dozen bullet holes or a limb missing by a shark or having
your legs blown off by a bomb.
I think damn - if I swa my legs looking like mince meat and blood oosing out, ill be extremly stressed , chilling me down
would slow the decay - stress - mode of the body. Next give me a VR head gear with 100 nude playboy centrefolds to ease
any pain too, that will make forget im about to die of blood loss/shock and might save me.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
pfft... lots of people in the church already have zero brainwave activity....
Hold the presses, this has got to be old news!
:)
I remember seing a Discovery Health or some type of media show about a woman who had a brain anurism... Problem was that she'd bleed out if they tried to remove it.. So they killed her... by running her blood through a cooler system and brought her body down to hyperthermic temps (high 60's-f or low 70's-f I think...) it cooled her whole body down and she basically "died"... (experienceing the light tunnel, voices, visions, effects and such associated with brain death and attributed to NDE or Near Death Experiences.) Anyways... after death, about 15 minutes to operate on the brain anurism to remove and bridge it.... Then they warmed the blood while circulateing it and brought her back up to "regular" temps (98f?) and then Electro-shocked her heart to start it back up, and it did and she eventually recovered with no brain damage or any complications.
All this based on the idea of children that would fall under the ice in northern climates and would loose conscientiousness for 20 to 30 minutes under water with no oxygen while being searched for... a number of these "miricle" children were found after the extremem temps had put them in a hyperthermic (a real word?) coma they eventually would warm and be resesitated with little or no brain damage! It seems linked that the brains oxygen consumption could be slowed by the extreme temps, and not cause normal brain damage that would result from oxygen depervation for such an extended period of time...
Now... I can't remember WHERE I saw this, it had to have been a medical documentation show... NOT SCI-FI type crap... So I know it was actually used at least once before years ago... so the pigs vs. human trials may just be to get some type of FDA approvial for the methods and or procedures.
A COOL procedure if it really works. (Sorry, Pun intended...
--- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg18925 351.200.html
Yep, that's almost exactly how it was for me. The main difference was that I knew I would die if I fell asleep. That was a surreal experience, going to sleep and not expecting to wake up.
I only had frost nip in one of my toes, but the sensitivity-to-cold thing was definitely a hassle. I think it was at least a week before my sense of temperature was back to normal.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Once outside earths orbit, crank out the vodka, and booze up! no law, no govt, no regulations
No PO-LEEZE!
Why do people wear clothes in space stations? they should all be naked.
If your 3.9 lt away, earth cannot tell you what to do, start a new race on a an empty planet, tell earth to STFU
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
How many issues ago was it in Discover|Scientific American|MIT's Technology Review?
Ignoring the fact that the Bible contradicts itself on different occasions, there are many points where God does not appear to be omnipotent. He is truly, and very often, surprised at things humans do, so he can't tell the future. He is sometimes surprised by things he laters finds out humans did, thus he doesn't know everything that's going on *now*, (the example that comes to mind is that he didn't know that Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of knowledge until later when he noticed Adam was aware that he was naked). He also gets angry at things that happen, but never, EVER considers turning back time to fix it. There are plenty of things that God appear to not be able to do in the Bible.
I also wonder what happened with the ridiculous shift between the Old Testament and the New Testament. The God in the Old Testament wasn't very nice. What is up with the whole Tower of Babel incident? "These people are working well together, we can't have that!"
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
Par-Tay all the time with SLURM!
Apparently stupid people modded the original as flamebait when by stupid I mean BOTH SIDES of the argument over 'when life begins.' LOL. They must have identified themselves as the target of my statement and felt that only they were 'stupid.' ;)
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Seems I read about this in the NY Times many years ago. After the collapse of the USSR surgeons there lacking heart-lung machines and anesthetics would ice down ( Really chill them out ) the patients in order to perform major surgery and then gently revive the patients.
wow.
I think the subject of this post explains it all. I don't need to go any further than that.
The Rapture is NOT an exit strategy.
"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1. Thessalonians 4:16-17, KJV
To me, it seems like born again belivers will sleep in the grave until the event mentioned here. If a dead man is revived (like Lazarus), there is no problem: he was just like asleep, and would have stayed that way until the time was right.
Spelling/grammar nazis welcome (English is not my first language and I am trying to improve my spelling/grammar)
nobody can define what is death .
one possible and simple definition is based on the notion of irreversible state.
so while you can get back youre not dead.
sorry for nde, heavens and jesus...
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."
(Isaiah 45:7, KJV)
I believe you are describing Mammalian Dive Reflex
Integrity is what you are when nobody is looking.
"The fact that you do not know of these Christian holidays throws your Christianity into serious doubt and betrays your ignorance of what it is to be a Christian."
;) ) and not because you memorize and observe all the customs and practices of the family.
One does NOT need to know about Christian holidays in order to be a Christian.
The main part of being a Christian is knowing and following Christ. Everything else can be derived from that.
Not knowing when God's Son's birthday was actually (I doubt most Christians know roughly when it was even), does not exclude you from being part of the family.
You become/are part of the family not because you strictly follow the rules of the family (but of course following the rules would be nice
Suspended animation? Dr. Nick was suspended after this little accident:
"The kneebone's connected to the... something. The something's connected to the... red thing. The red thing's connected to my wrist watch... Uh oh."
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
OK, you were in a situation where hypothermia was a clear risk (hiking? mountain climbing?) and could be aware of the onset of symptoms. I thought I had escaped to a safe environment! Not...
--- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammalian_diving_refl ex
this is a well-known phenomenon
I just wish you would have jumped in sooner. Of course, you're busy - being a MD and all - but correct us instead of slamming us.
You don't want to perpetuate the myth that Doctors are arrogant know-it-alls that know nothing, do you?