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Privacy Threat in New RFID Travel Cards?

DemolitionX9 writes to tell us ZDNet has an interesting article rehashing the problems with privacy in future RFID-equipped travel documents and ID. The piece focuses on a recent speech given by Jim Williams, director of the Department of Homeland Security's US-VISIT program. From the article: "Many of the privacy worries center on whether RFID tags--typically minuscule chips with an antenna a few inches long that can transmit a unique ID number--can be read from afar. If the range is a few inches, the privacy concerns are reduced. But at ranges of 30 feet, the tags could theoretically be read by hidden sensors alongside the road, in the mall or in the hands of criminals hoping to identify someone on the street by his or her ID number."

265 comments

  1. yes, but.. by ShaniaTwain · · Score: 4, Funny

    ..think of how this will protect your FREEDOM! and LIBERTY!

    1. Re:yes, but.. by sgant · · Score: 2, Funny

      Jim Williams, director of the Department of Homeland Security

      Isn't this the guy that got busted as a pedophile?

      Ok, I know it isn't....but whenever I get the chance from now on, I'm going to do my part and belittle the Department of Homeland Security as much as I can. Hopefully distilling it into the joke that it is. I only wish I could get into press-conferences where they're speaking and ask that question. "Excuse me, were you the guy that was busted for being a pedophile"?

      If you couldn't tell, I'm a disillusioned American.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    2. Re:yes, but.. by uncoveror · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yep, any terrorist with an RFID reader will be able to identify Americans to kill. It will give them a lot of freedom and liberty, me not so much.

      --
      The Uncoveror: It's the real news.
    3. Re:yes, but.. by Teun · · Score: 1

      Yep, any terrorist with an RFID reader will be able to identify Americans to kill. It will give him a lot of freedom and liberty, me does not need to worry so much to being considered an American=target.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    4. Re:yes, but.. by dgatwood · · Score: 1
      Your blue jeans, the American flag on your t-shirt, and that guy in your party loudly insisting that you all sing "God Bless America" (and then proceeding to do so) pretty much gives you away....

      Besides, I'd be far more worried about the RFID tags being forged. It takes skill to believably forge a paper passport (along with access to the materials). Forging a digital image could end up being easier in the long run.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:yes, but.. by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      >> Jim Williams, director of the Department of Homeland Security

      > Isn't this the guy that got busted as a pedophile?

      Did he stop beating his wife?

    6. Re:yes, but.. by JWSmythe · · Score: 1

      I was going to say, that's more likely.

          Depending on what they do with the information on the tag, what's to stop someone from forging their own passport on say an airplane?

          Say a bad guy is sitting beside the innocent victim on a plane. With a small RFID reader, you've already picked up the info on their ID. You see their name on their luggage tag, brief case, notebook, or whatever they may have. They already have a false passport prepared, so they just go into the bathroom, and print the cover page with the name, recode the RFID tag in their false passport to the victim's RFID information. Now they are the victim. All they have to do is be sure to get through immigration first. The victim will be held up indefinately, and the bad guy is already through. By the time the time they figure out what happened, the bad guy is already in a cab to destinations unknown.

          It woudn't have to be with such great timing. The bad guy could get the info from any traveler in an airport, it doesn't matter where the victim is going. Get someone coming back into the country, and then leave the country at their leasure, and travel as them.

          A question I've brought up before with the RFID tags in general is, what if the government puts the readers in the vehicle sensor loops at major intersections. It would be pretty easy to do, and they would be able to track anyone, as long as they have a known RFID tag with them. The tags can be in anything, since they're starting to be embedded in clothing and other products like automobile tires. It would be a simple association of what products have been seen with which people.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
  2. I want a RFID reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'd love to see who is coming and going in and out of whatever building I'm in - and make a database of people of interest so my wearable computer could page me whenever one's around.


    This ability would make it well worth these RFID ids being mandated.

    1. Re:I want a RFID reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds stalkerish.

    2. Re:I want a RFID reader by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 3, Funny
      I'd love to see who is coming and going in and out of whatever building I'm in - and make a database of people of interest so my wearable computer could page me whenever one's around.

      This ability would make it well worth these RFID ids being mandated.

      Or, as the pedophile official in DHS might say, "Think of the children, 'cause I sure do!"

    3. Re:I want a RFID reader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      darn!... this site enlightens me the potential of not juts RFID privacy intrusion but potential security threat and terrorism!

      Oh my, terrorist who reads this must be really thankful for the ideas!

  3. practically speaking by Douglas+Simmons · · Score: 1

    This is all very intriguing, but how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse? I can only think of things that would make it better. Could someone explain less abstractly than "Didn't you read 1984?"

    1. Re:practically speaking by dwandy · · Score: 5, Informative
      This is all very intriguing, but how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse
      Lots of ways, most immediately comes to mind:
      1. Capture your data.
      2. Encode to my chip.
      3. Now I'm you, I can:
        • Travel as you.
        • Commit various offences as you
        • Do whatever I want as you, and hell, the computer can't be wrong.
      4. (mandatory) PROFIT!
      But I'm sure more devious plots will come to other people's minds...
      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    2. Re:practically speaking by Nos. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Imagine that these ids can be read from a distance. Now suppose a chain of stores, say some clothing stores, installs sensors and begins reading these tags. You sign up for their "monthly mailing list", and now they know who you are and what your unique ID is.

      After a trip, you get an email/letter saying, "Thanks for visiting our [exotic destination] location. We hope you enjoyed your trip". Okay, not terrible, but I don't really want clothing stores knowing where I take my vacations.

      Now, substitute that store with your employer, and your vacation destination with a labour lawyer. All of a sudden you employer knows you've been talking to a labour lawyer.

      There are definitely worse scenarios, if you let your imagination run a little

    3. Re:practically speaking by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is off the shelf hardware that will allow you to read RFID tags (with varying levels of reliability) from ranges in excess of thirty feet. A collection of RFID tags produces a sort of constellation even if they are not unique. For instance, the guy who has the bottle of scope mouthwash, the bag of fritos flamin' hot, and the #2 philips screwdriver at this intersection is probably the same guy who has the same stuff at the next intersection. This allows you to positively track someone based on checkpoints, even without a unique RFID like your passport will be. Furthermore, even if some of the tags don't scan properly, the percentage similarity can be compared from point to point and you can get a fairly positive match anyway.

      With Unique tags, then you don't need to go even that far, of course.

      If you cannot imagine why this is a bad thing, then truly, you should read 1984.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:practically speaking by Tackhead · · Score: 5, Insightful
      > This is all very intriguing, but how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse? I can only think of things that would make it better. Could someone explain less abstractly than "Didn't you read 1984?"

      "Ground Beef a L'amerique".

      Ingredients:

      1 Terrorist.
      1 RFID reader.
      1 Pringles can.
      1 Blasting cap.
      1 Pound of boom-boom stuff.

      Assemble recipe. Bake in broad daylight on side of road until American tour bus comes by.

    5. Re:practically speaking by PaulK · · Score: 1

      "This is all very intriguing, but how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse? I can only think of things that would make it better. Could someone explain less abstractly than "Didn't you read 1984?"

      It's quite simple. If you're travelling abroad, it's possible that someone would want to target you based on your nationality from a discrete range. This was proven possible at the blackhat convention, (see the link below). I appreciate that TPTB are paying attention to this issue.

      http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=2437

    6. Re:practically speaking by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      This is all very intriguing, but how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse? I can only think of things that would make it better. Could someone explain less abstractly than "Didn't you read 1984?"

      If you are an American, this has nothing to do with you, if you are visitor , someone MAY be able to read your travel entry visa number... what makes me curious is what exactly can you do with a entry visa id number? Its kinda like being able to read your vehicle VIN number, like having it written on your car... Imagine what would happend if all those evil thiefs can steal your car's VIN number... Then they can.......they can.... I got nothing....

      -Em

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    7. Re:practically speaking by Penguinoflight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The condition that makes RFID tags in any capacity (not just long range ones) unsafe and irresponsible is the insecurity of identification systems in the government/big business system. As things are now, Social Security numbers and other forms of identification can be used against the holder to steal money from them. Credit card companies are getting worse and worse, and they are not held back by bought and paid for congress.

      RFID is bad because it makes the job of criminals much easier, and there has been no boost in security from other areas. There is another aspect of this which is slightly more controversial: prosecution based on RFID.

      The bottom line is, no machine will be as efficient and accurate at identifying what happens at a crime scene. With the use of RFID scanners you could "confirm" that John Doe was the man who broke into a jewelry shop... when in fact is was John h4x0r. Currently, the competency of courts when dealing with issues of advanced technology is a shame to the US, and with this kind of power of evidence things will only get worse.

      With these two major issues raised, I ask what advantages does having personal RFIDs bring to the table? The purposes that justify checking identification now are mostly childish, and wouldn't stop any truly purposed criminal. This question is just another one of those situations where benefit/loss is so bad that it begs the question of whose side its supporters are on.

      --
      "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
      1 John 4:14
    8. Re:practically speaking by MojoRilla · · Score: 4, Informative

      How is this any different from someone stealing your passport now?

      RTFA.

      The 96 digit number would be a key into a database, which would "automatically display the cardholder's picture and other biographic information on the border agent's computer screen."

      The agent sees the person who is using the card doesn't match the stored information, and hauls you in.
      Finally, according to the TFA, "They're also exploring using a card that would have to be activated by the user, through a fingerprint or some other biometric method, before any information could be read remotely."

    9. Re:practically speaking by SengirV · · Score: 1, Insightful
      The agent sees the person who is using the card doesn't match the stored information, and hauls you in.

      That doesn't work too well in a passive setting, like along side of a road, or unmanned building entrances, etc...

      On the back of my credit card, I have my endorsed name AND a note that says "please check ID". How often do you think they check my ID? Also, do you think EVERY place that is going to be using this cards has a nice pretty display to view the picture of the individuals? And if it's a simpe 96 digit number, then imagine the fun as criminals cycle thru the DB looking for people who match their general appearance. Oh what joy.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    10. Re:practically speaking by Multivitavim · · Score: 1

      So you're saying this new system is a massive waste of resources because the existing system already works okay? I'd have to agree.

    11. Re:practically speaking by dwandy · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Maybe it is no different than today's threats, just new; "Why add another way to get hijacked?" should be the real question asked here, not "How is this different?". And if you believe that just because it's just a number you're safe, you just havn't thought it all the way through. From 30-ft, a disguise doesn't have to be perfect. And if you start by picking someone who looks somewhat like you, you can pretty much move around as them.

      So, imho, it is different due to the perceived infallibility of computer reports (which is a joke, since all those same people who claim it must be true 'cause the computer said so, also say their computer crashes all the time)
      So I guess where I'm going with this is that if I can forge your chip, I can then move about leaving *your* electronic trail behind. Then when something goes bad the cops show up at your house, not mine.
      I guess it's kinda like being able to scan and replicate your DNA from 30 ft. If I can then leave it somewhere you *will* be convicted...they won't even talk to me: I wasn't there.

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    12. Re:practically speaking by mrogers · · Score: 1
      Let's say you're a diplomat, or maybe the director of a controversial film about Islam. Instead of trying to discover your top-secret itinerary and get close to you with a gun, I just plant bombs near a couple of busy roads and program them to go off when they detect the RFID tag in your passport (or your tyres, or your newspaper, or your bodyguard's shirt). It might be weeks before you pass near one of the bombs, by which time I can be out of the country.

      Alternatively let's say you're a member of a non-violent pressure group. Human surveillance is expensive - the government has to choose its targets carefully, which provides a certain amount of breathing space for less dangerous activists. But with a few well-placed RFID sensors it's possible to record the movements of an almost unlimited number of people for the same price as one, and what government wouldn't take advantage of free intelligence?

    13. Re:practically speaking by Rick.C · · Score: 1
      ...how exactly could someone exploit this RFID range to make my life worse?

      Muggers would be forced to employ a technical assistant who would scan prospective victims as they approached. Only those with lots of cash or a great credit score would be mugged.

      Hmmm.. This might actually help you, depending on your financial situation.

      Bet it would hurt the bigshots who pass the law, though. Wait! On second thought, they'll probably write themselves an exemption and not have to carry RFIDs.

      --
      You were 80% angel, 10% demon. The rest was hard to explain. - Over The Rhine
      "Math in a song is good."-Linford
    14. Re:practically speaking by greg_barton · · Score: 1

      How is this any different from someone stealing your passport now?

      They can do it without your knowledge.

      They can do it N times a day, N = number of folks who are in range.

      They can hold on to the stolen data indefinitely, until it is useful, again without your knowledge.

      Your question is kile asking, "how is an MP3 file different from a physical CD?" I think the answer to that is obvious...

    15. Re:practically speaking by PowerKe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How is this any different from someone stealing your passport now?

      Because it's not even necessary to steal your passport, it's not even necessary to touch it. You can walk past someone at 25 feet and copy it. If you have an ordinary passport and keep it in a safe place all the time you can be pretty sure no one takes it without you knowing and if they steal it, you might notice it's missing.

      Besides, if the RFID card is designed to be readable at 25 feet, it's probably possible to do so at a much longer distance using special equipment.

    16. Re:practically speaking by koweja · · Score: 1

      Actually the advertisments would be bad enough. Just see Minority Report.

    17. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SOME tags can be read from 30 feet, it depends on the tags, the manufacturer, and the protocol. There are lots of variations, and from someone who has spent HOURs working with RFID tags and readers, getting reliable readings without adjusting for things like speed, distance, power, etc. is VERY difficult. Now I'm sure as the technology matures these issues will become moot, but stating that off the shelf hardware can read ANY tag is just wrong. Sorry to disappoint.

    18. Re:practically speaking by jim_v2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Lots of ways, most immediately comes to mind:

            1. Capture your data.
            2. Encode to my chip.
            3. Now I'm you, I can:
            4.
                          * Travel as you.
                          * Commit various offences as you
                          * Do whatever I want as you, and hell, the computer can't be wrong.
            5. (mandatory) PROFIT!


      Kinda like when an illegal alien decides to use a stolen SSN?

      (I was buying a car last week and two Hispanic gentlemen where attempting to finance a truck, and I overheard the lady doing the loan paper say something about how the SSN had been used on another account with different info already.)

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    19. Re:practically speaking by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

      Remember that theft issues happen more from inside a company more than they happen outside of a company. Retail stores battle employees stealing from them more than they battle customers stealing from them. The agent monitoring the system would be in on scam. I remember seeing a news report about how an ex-Navy service man learned how to rig the credit card swipe device to his computer to steal from customers. He hooked it up at a gas station his friend worked at and hooked up a camera above the credit card terminal to capture the pin number. We should be scared about the low waged security gaurds monitoring this information.

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    20. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I look like alot of people, brown hair, brown eyes, white... I am often mistaken for my boss.

    21. Re:practically speaking by Nos. · · Score: 1

      Actually, when I first wrote that comment instead of clothing store I put "the Gap" for that same reason, but changed it before I submitted it.

    22. Re:practically speaking by dwandy · · Score: 1
      yeah, i guess what I'm saying is that today ID numbers get stolen and misused... and none of them are broadcast.
      So there is nothing in today's reality that leads me to believe that this new ID number won't also be "stolen", and won't also be misused...

      Anyone who thinks that "it will never happen" doesn't live on Planet Earth... or at least not in my reality.... or maybe they just have never written or maintained software before...
      The phrase "it will never happen" is uttered right before the unhandled expection creates a hole big enough to drive into... pwning yet another computer :)

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
    23. Re:practically speaking by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Imagine what would happend if all those evil thiefs can steal your car's VIN number... Then they can.......they can.... I got nothing....

      They can steal your VIN and they can go to a shady dealer and make some key blanks that fit your locks (often based on the VIN. If you've got a chipped key, they can either get a known good ecu and swap that as part of the theft or they can tow your car.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    24. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These were a bad idea from the start. They can be detected using standard (read: anyone can buy the parts cheap) RFID equipment. Now imagine a "bad guy" making a roadside bomb which will trigger on when a US citizen is detected. Or imagine another bad person roaming the streets of Berlin until he/she finds a bar with 5 or more US citizens in it.

      The original version of these chips, to be used in US State Department visas, responded with a host of useful information, including a digital picture of the holder. Trying to find an American target in a crowd? Turn on you RFID sensor, and get a mug shot.

      Thanksalot.

      BTW, Tom Ridge left DHS last year. His new job? Working for an RFID company. No foolin'.

    25. Re:practically speaking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Now I'm sure as the technology matures these issues will become moot, but stating that off the shelf hardware can read ANY tag is just wrong. Sorry to disappoint.

      If the off-the-shelf stuff will do it most of the time, then just think about what the sooper sekrit beta test only released to military and federal law enforcement equipment can accomplish...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RFID Blocking Passport cases and Wallets avaliable http://www.difrwear.com/

    27. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      On the back of my credit card, I have my endorsed name AND a note that says "please check ID". How often do you think they check my ID?

      Hopefully never. It's a violation of MasterCard, Visa and American Express's policies (almost certainly Discover's too) to check ID and I file a complaint every single time someone asks me for ID when I use my Mastercard because it pisses me off.

    28. Re:practically speaking by Znork · · Score: 1

      Nevermind 1984, can you say ID targetted explosive devices?

      RFID identification that could be read from afar would be every single hitmans and political terrorists wet dream.

      The very idea that anyone the least concerned with security would fail to realize the ways such things could be exploited speaks volumes.

    29. Re:practically speaking by nizo · · Score: 1
      1. Sit at airport with scanner
      2. Watch as families enter security to depart on trip to Disneyland or wherever
      3. Use list of families now on vacation to compile a list of addresses so you can pilfer their houses


      I am sure there are plenty of other ways to abuse this, but this is just the first one that popped into my head.

    30. Re:practically speaking by tarkas · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps we're asking the wrong questions. The various faults of remotely read RFID-like devices used as ID's have been beaten like a dead horse over the last few months; RFIDs are sorely wanting. If the intent is only to provide a mechanism to ease border crossings; even it's pretty iffy - there are too many competing methods that are more secure, and less expensive to implement.

      If, however, your goal is not to provide a fool-proof form of Passport, but rather to normalize the use of a remotely (and covertly) polled identification device in the general population, then it works well. Regardless of their potential usefulness and the presumably good intentions of the developers, they are the perfect tool of an authoritarian government. As such, we use them at our peril; it doesn't require much imagination to think of ways such things could be used to monitor and shape the behaviour of a given citizenry. And no this is not anti-GOP rant. In this case the party lines are more like the incumbents vs. the rest of us.

      DMV agent: Oho, it appears you were in close proximity to a known radical several times last year. It also looks like you were in a bookstore looking at political titles no less than 20 times! Your travel license (ex-drivers license?) is now restricted to areas that are safer, to protect you from dangerous ideas. Deviations will be noted. Anomalous sequencing of scans will be noted. (Ain't computers grand?) Anomalous lack of registrations will be noted (foil pockets - forbidden). We have to keep a look out for dangerous people seeking to harm the American People's children!

    31. Re:practically speaking by ross.w · · Score: 1

      John Anderton! we have loads of bargains for you in-store now!

      --
      If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
    32. Re:practically speaking by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      That doesn't work too well in a passive setting, like along side of a road, or unmanned building entrances, etc...

      That's OK, because that isn't how this is going to be used. Please move along.

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    33. Re:practically speaking by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      There is off the shelf hardware that will allow you to read [license plates] (with varying levels of reliability) from ranges in excess of thirty feet.OMG!!!! License plates are the mark of the beast!!!

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    34. Re:practically speaking by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      Yes, those multiple 9 foot antennas will be quite easy to conceal in an IED. Let's say they're concealed in a building somewhere. How does the attacker know that the random number reported by my RFID tag identifies me as an American without access to the database?

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    35. Re:practically speaking by PaulK · · Score: 1

      Read the article. The range is significantly greater than 50 feet. That was the mechanical limit of the room. As to the "random number", how many other nations are using RFID for travel documents?

    36. Re:practically speaking by Picard102 · · Score: 1

      Assumeing that the string of numbers transmited meant anything to anyone who didn't have access to the federal database. I find it hard to belive the GAP would be so privilaged.

    37. Re:practically speaking by JWSmythe · · Score: 1


          I do the same thing with my credit cards.

          In the last year, I've had my ID checked exactly once because of this. It was by a person being trained at a truck stop. The trainer was going through the drill perfectly. They said "Check ID", and they asked to see my drivers license.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    38. Re:practically speaking by JWSmythe · · Score: 1


          There's a reason that we're described as "average height, average build, brown hair and eyes.". Both you and I are 50% of the people out there.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    39. Re:practically speaking by SengirV · · Score: 1

      Yeah, nothing like wanting people to NOT make sure your credit card is being used by the right people. I hate you.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    40. Re:practically speaking by Requiem+Aristos · · Score: 1

      They don't have to be. They just have to link the number with the name on the credit card you hand them when buying the lastest trendy shirt. That'd be enough to cover about 98% of their customers.

    41. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's about setting the precedent that stores do not have the right to my personal information simply because they decided they wanted it They wanted to accept credit cards badly enough that they felt they could live by the rule of no minimum payment and no requiring ID. It's not my fault they're choosing to break it You don't like it, stop using credit cards. Or do you think the rules don't apply to you either? Grow up and stop being such a whiny, spoiled little bitch.

    42. Re:practically speaking by Picard102 · · Score: 1

      Assuming your that big of an idiot to be walking around your local mall with a Travelers ID in your pocket.

    43. Re:practically speaking by SengirV · · Score: 1

      I'm not the one filing complaints. If anyone is a little bitch, it's you. When the store checks my ID, they are visually checking it against the card. They are not copying the info down. Gawd you are such a douche. If they ask for you phone number, or address - of course you tell them to piss off. But if they are visually verifying that YOU are the user of the credit card and you throw a hissy fit, then YOU ARE THE PUSSY ASS BITCH.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    44. Re:practically speaking by CortoMaltese · · Score: 1
      Two things:
      1. Biometric passports are not designed to be read at 25 feet. They are barely readable at 3-4 inches. The RF field has to provide power to the chip, which is not technically possible from very far (without frying a bunch of things around you).
      2. In order to read the passport, you have to authenticate with the chip using information that needs to be read visually from the surface of the passport.
    45. Re:practically speaking by jim_v2000 · · Score: 1

      today ID numbers get stolen and misused... and none of them are broadcast.
      So there is nothing in today's reality that leads me to believe that this new ID number won't also be "stolen", and won't also be misused...


      Good point.

      (bet you don't see that on Slashdot much ;)

      --
      Don't take life so seriously. No one makes it out alive.
    46. Re:practically speaking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wannh, rules don't apply to me, wannnhhh! I agree to things and then bitch and moan when I can't change them as I like! Wannnhh!!! Jesus Christ you punk little bitch, the complaint form exists because of jerk offs like you trying to fuck up a system that works well and was designed the way it is for an explicit reason. If you don't like the fucking rule, don't use the goddamn credit card. How fucking hard is it to read and understand the things you agree to? I'm sure your Mommy always said you were special, but that was just so you stopped crying all the way to school on the short bus. You're not special. You're fucking up a good system. You have no excuse. End of story. Welcome to my foe list.

    47. Re:practically speaking by SengirV · · Score: 1

      Welcome to my foe list? WTF is that? You are a gawd damn Anonymous Coward, you are too much fo a pussy to put yourself out there.

      That's why I don't use a loser Mastercard.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

  4. If the range is smaller, all the identity thieves have to do is get closer to you. Brush past you, and they have identified you. Isn't easy identification the idea behind it?

  5. Even if it was a few inches... by Gyga · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...What is to stop someone from "accidentally" bumping into you with their scanner in their pocket?

    --
    I don't preview or spellcheck.
    1. Re:Even if it was a few inches... by acro55 · · Score: 1

      couldn't you just wrap you travel documents in tin foil, along with one's head?

    2. Re:Even if it was a few inches... by crazyjeremy · · Score: 1

      What's to stop someone from taking your card? Wouldn't it make more sense to have 3 pieces of ID and the reader simply cannot identify you without all 3? Such as password, biometric id and smartchip of some kind...

    3. Re:Even if it was a few inches... by Surt · · Score: 1

      Well, I'd tend to try to avoid someone walking through the airport bumping into everyone he possibly could.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Even if it was a few inches... by Crizp · · Score: 1

      Something like that would be nice - one could have a single passport card (RFID or smartcard) with biometric info like today's new passports, but the card would not be validated without iris, fingerprint _and_ facial geometry matches. They can all be scanned at the same time.

      Imagine some crook trying to fake your identity to gain entrance into the US of A, showing up at customs with your eyes, one of your hands and your head!

  6. Cheap thrills posted by bat020 by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Funny



    I did this today and it made me insanely happy for about 15 seconds.

    Find a BT landline phone. Send a text message to it reading "The time space continuum is about to collapse." Wait by the phone. A few seconds later it will ring - and Tom Baker will read your message out to you!

    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    1. Re:Cheap thrills posted by bat020 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BT-- Bluetooth or British Telecom?

  7. Let me be the first to say by eclectro · · Score: 1, Funny


    Give me a yagi and I'll read your tagy.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  8. RFID triggered terrorist bombs by Bubba-T · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Set off a Bomb when person id code 46465456456489715678984 walks by

    1. Re:RFID triggered terrorist bombs by crazyjeremy · · Score: 1
      Nah, see the article...
      "Homeland Security envisions that document will take the form of a "vicinity-read" wallet-size card that will capture information from a distance and automatically display the cardholder's picture and other biographic information on the border agent's computer screen."
      It's more like Set off Bomb when CANADIAN/MEXICAN id code 46465456456489715678984 walks by.
    2. Re:RFID triggered terrorist bombs by 50m31sl4sh. · · Score: 1

      Boss, 46465456456489715678984 wears a tin-foil hat, what do we do?

      --
      Rediculous is ridiculous!
    3. Re:RFID triggered terrorist bombs by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      As long as he's not wrapping his wallet in tinfoil, let him.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:RFID triggered terrorist bombs by jftitan · · Score: 1

      seven years later bomb self detonates because person id 46465456456489715678984 never walked by. Someone didn't do the homework, and realize that person id 46465456456489715678984 uses the back door instead.

      --
      "Don't Forget to Salt the Fries"
    5. Re:RFID triggered terrorist bombs by 955301 · · Score: 1

      Judging from this thread, you just might be starting a new Internet/Slashdot tradition of using the ID 46465456456489715678984 when referring to RFID privacy issues. I hope you chose the number wisely, it may be around for a while!

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  9. a whole new category of profitable perversion... by GungaDan · · Score: 1

    identity frottaging.

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
  10. FOIL'ID AGAIN by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 0, Offtopic


    The FOIL'ID AGAIN is a humourous example of how to prevent the Department of Homeland Insecurity from messing up your privacy:
    http://www.angelfire.com/mt/woodmtn/insight.html

  11. Needs Google Maps interface by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now all we need is a grid of these RFID readers and an interface to Google Maps... so, you know, you can run a real-time radar of the current location of all friends, enemies, and heretics.

    1. Re:Needs Google Maps interface by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      And babes. Let's not forget babes.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

  12. I'm not scared!!!! by ShyGuy91284 · · Score: 1

    Not with my RFID Blocking Kit RFID Blocking Kit Shirt!!

    --
    In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
  13. Perhaps... by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    ...the fact that they don't have the database to match the "ID" in the RFID, perhaps?

    I mean, how useful would it be to you to have a list of all the social security numbers of everyone in a baseball stadium if you didn't have any of the names? Hell, you might as well just randomly generate the numbers.

    Wouldn't be to terribly risky for me to say that my SSN is 872-46-2392 (it's not) if there's no way for you to get any other identifying information with which to match it as by itself it is totally useless.

    1. Re:Perhaps... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Informative
      I mean, how useful would it be to you to have a list of all the social security numbers of everyone in a baseball stadium if you didn't have any of the names?

      If RFID cards become pervasive, a gray market in matching serial numbers to real IDs will pop up just like there's currently a market among spammers for e-mail addresses. Any unscrupulous merchant with an RFID reader could harvest positive IDs from their customers at the checkout counter.

      The key difference with SSNs is that you can't read them remotely from everyone who walks by.

    2. Re:Perhaps... by JPribe · · Score: 0

      So you plant a reader near a cash register in a store or at the counter in the local stop-N-shop and harvest the RFIDs from both the ID *a*n*d* the Mastercard with the "scan and go" (or whatever tagline they are using)...this based upon the (!DANGER!) assumption that the tag in the credit/debit card has the same info as the mag-stripe, which, last I checked included the card-holder's name, among other things

      --

      Why go fast when you can go anywhere? O|||||||O
    3. Re:Perhaps... by sukotto · · Score: 1

      The key difference with SSNs is that you can't read them remotely from everyone who walks by.

      Until, for security reasons, SSN cards get rfid tags. Sometime after driver's licenses I'd wager

      --
      Come play free flash games on Kongregate!
  14. Marketing Ideas by BenHoltz · · Score: 1

    They could Use the information to Change ads. For example You visit a "popular" store often. The marketing company contracts with that store to track how much you visit. The marketing company could have billboards on the side of the street, or in a mall, and they read your ID tag. They could then change the ad to target it towards your shopping history. I say no to the whole Idea.

    1. Re:Marketing Ideas by geoffspear · · Score: 1

      Yes, we all saw Minority Report. If you think the personalized ads were the scariest thing in the movie, you'd got problems.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    2. Re:Marketing Ideas by SengirV · · Score: 1

      This technique was shown in Minority Report.

      --

      Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

    3. Re:Marketing Ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ...and they read your ID tag. They could then change the ad to target it towards your shopping history.


      Excellent! Now everyone within a 30 meter radius of me will know I prefer Trojan brand condoms!

    4. Re:Marketing Ideas by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

      I heard they were gonna start doing this with cell phones, but it got shot down because the cell phone owner would be billed for the call and would use up their minutes.

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    5. Re:Marketing Ideas by Unlikely_Hero · · Score: 1

      You think it matters whether you say no to the idea?....
      *scratches head* ...
      You must be new here!
      Welcome to America Comrade!

      --
      Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
  15. In other news ... by PatrickThomson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    In other news, walking around with a bizzare skin disorder that makes microscopic copies of your passport flake off and fall on the ground may be a risk to your identity.

    (I choose such an odd analogy because rfid readers are about as hard to obtain as microscopes. Not everyone will have one on them but it's not exactly mil-spec hardware)

    --
    I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    1. Re:In other news ... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hey, the chemicals for LSD are at least as hard to obtain. As is the skill to make it. Still, there are people creating the drug.

      Why would you think that someone who REALLY wants your ID has harder times getting it? We're not talking about Joe Shmoe Average and his cat, and not the highschool scriptkid next door. Yes, those babies cost a fortune (for Mr. J.S.Average, at least), but it's peanuts to someone organised to do something 'bad' with 'em.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:In other news ... by Davey+McDave · · Score: 1

      You actually shed skin all the time anyway, you know.

      I think it's something like 90% of dust is human skin.

      --
      I've got the spirit, lose the feeling.
    3. Re:In other news ... by PatrickThomson · · Score: 1

      Buying an RFID reader won't currently put you on a watchlist. LSD precursors will, if my memory of american drug policy serves me well.

      The argument "someone who wanted this information would get it anyway" is a flawed one, I just can't see the flaw.

      --
      I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    4. Re:In other news ... by PatrickThomson · · Score: 1

      Yep, all that lovely dna-containing skin.

      Seen Gattaca?

      --
      I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
  16. Or RFID triggered goverment bombs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Person id code 46465456456489715678984 has very vocally expressed negative opionions about us, let's stage a little accident for him.

  17. I don't want to be tagged! by Bromskloss · · Score: 2, Funny

    Please hurry the development of space tech so I can move to another planet, should it be necessary.

    --
    Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
    1. Re:I don't want to be tagged! by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      Sure, but only citizen numbers 4975637200 till 4975637299 are allowed to leave...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
  18. Targeted Americans in foreign lands by Simonetta · · Score: 1

    A passport that emits RFID information from any distance more than a few inches would be a serious danger to Americans traveling. Criminals can set up a cluster of RFID readers on a busy street and identify Americans by the RFID signals received. Then these people can be targeted for kidnapping, robbery, extortion, or murder specifically because of their nationality.
        Even a RFID passport that emits only a few inches can be a danger if the criminals use more powerful amplifiers on their RFID receivers.
        This idea is totally insane from the standpoint of individual security for travelers using a USA passport. But of course the nitwit fucks that run the USA 'Homeland Security' Department can't understand this. I'll be the first to buy a lead-threaded passport cover.

    1. Re:Targeted Americans in foreign lands by Zed2K · · Score: 1

      Its not like our passports hide the fact of who is an American and who isn't when in a foreign country. We stand out like sore thumbs.

    2. Re:Targeted Americans in foreign lands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt you stand out as an American well enough for a computer program to determine how many Americans were within a certain area. The whole point is that a bomb could be designed to go off if a certain number of Americans are within 10 feet or so. If you think it is so easy then why don't you write a program that, given a video feed, can tell how many American citizens and how many foreigners are in a given frame of video.

    3. Re:Targeted Americans in foreign lands by Zed2K · · Score: 1

      Actually the point was that the rfid in a passport could determine you were an american citizen and those could be targeted for kidnapping or violence. My point was that you don't need a passport to tell who is an american when in a foreign city, we stand out and can be spotted without technology. You don't need to target multiple americans, you only need to hit a few of them. You are overthinking this too much. Terrorism isn't about pinpoint accuracy and specific targets its about maximize damage and creating fear. They wouldn't waste their time trying to hit 20 americans in one blast, they'll just take out an entire building no matter who is in it. They don't need rfid tags and scanners to do that.

    4. Re:Targeted Americans in foreign lands by monkeydo · · Score: 1

      The RFID contains nothing other than a random number. How will the criminals distinguish an American random number from a Libyan one? What makes you think that criminals can't pick their targets without the use of technology?

      --
      Si vis pacem, para bellum
      The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
    5. Re:Targeted Americans in foreign lands by Simonetta · · Score: 1

      For a period of time, Americans will be the only ones who will have RFID passports.

        Plus, this concept that Americans can be distinguished from locals immediately on sight is by now a myth. In the 1950's and 1960's, it was true to a certain degree. But no longer. Besides, that statement assumes that all Americans are white, fat, and unstylish boobs who can't speak anything but English. It's hardly the situation today. Nowdays, everyone looks their social and economic class regardless of their specific nationality. So a machine that can detect Americans on the street of overseas city is extremely dangerous to those American travelers who are nearly indistingishable from the other people in the city.

          It doesn't matter if the passport generates a random number, any number reflected from an RFID embedded passport identifies an American.

  19. The Next Pickpockets? by EpochVII · · Score: 1

    Even if its a few inches, in a crowded mall, couldnt somoene walk right up behind someone and scan the rfid card in their wallet, in their back pocket?

    RFID would be awesome if the governments werent trying to control us and the criminals werent trying to abuse us.

  20. virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They can also get viruses you know... the reg had an article on it a few months ago where they proved it could be made... very worrying

  21. My solution to completely solve this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give everyone the ID number 12345.

    1. Re:My solution to completely solve this problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent idea! Now I'll never forget the combination to my luggage.

    2. Re:My solution to completely solve this problem by spun · · Score: 1

      Hey! Don't use that, it's the combination to my luggage!

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  22. Terrorism applications by Animats · · Score: 3, Interesting
    RFID takes terrorism to the next level. The next step, of course, is the land mine that only blows up when someone from the US is near it.

    And yes, some terrorist groups do have the capability to build custom electronics. You can see examples of IRA custom circuit boards in the Imperial War Museum, London.

  23. No control by Billosaur · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Many of the privacy worries center on whether RFID tags--typically miniscule chips with an antenna a few inches long that can transmit a unique ID number--can be read from afar. If the range is a few inches, the privacy concerns are reduced. But at ranges of 30 feet, the tags could theoretically be read by hidden sensors alongside the road, in the mall or in the hands of criminals hoping to identify someone on the street by his or her ID number.

    Unless the Feds are going to come up with an air-tight encryption scheme, this is a recipe for disaster. This isn't like the EZPass I have on my car, which is only linked to my account and determines if I have enough to pay the toll. These chips will potentially carry a lot of personal and very useful information, especially if you're a crook looking to use somebody's id to get across the border or to create fake identity documents for sale.

    Frankly, this whole idea is mainly a panacea. If it works, the bad guys will simply sneak across the thousands of miles of undefended and unmonitored border we have in the US. Others will start turning innocent people into mules by swiping their identities and using them to get things across. Instead of making the borders of this nation more secure, the government is creating even more insidious ways for someone to come into this country. I think it's time to go back to the drawing board.

    --
    GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    1. Re:No control by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      The way I see it, even if the effective broadcast range is 3 feet, what's to stop terrorists from strolling down the halls of an airport, duplicating a valid RFID transmission on a programmable card, and assuming that person's identity? Or for other identity thieves to do the same thing, capturing hundreds of valid IDs in minutes, and selling them to interested third parties? This could be done passively and completely undetected!

      Even within the fraud-free bubble the government imagines this technology will flourish in, you gotta love the US for transitioning from a "papers please" state to a "papers if you don't please" 1984.

    2. Re:No control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll withold the obligatory RTFA response and simply say...you're actually slightly off here. According to the article, the Feds are now considering using an RFID chip that woudl carry only a unique 96-digit number. This number would then be used as your unique identifier (as opposed to your social security number, taxpayer id#, etc.).

      Furthermore, simply stealing somebody's card does not mean you'll be able to get across the border. It's likely that before you get issued one of these cards, they're going to put a serious amount of effort into verifying that you are who you say you are (fingerprints, birth certificate, etc.), all of which gets stored in a massive encrypted/secure database.

      Then, when Joe Schmoe presents a card to cross the border, the unique id is read off the card and used to look up some other information in a SUBSET of this database. This database may only link this unique id to a picture, a set of fingerprints, and perhaps other biometric information. The border patrol should not need to know your address, your mother's maiden name, your social security number, so there's no need for their "stripe" of the database to contain that information.

    3. Re:No control by doublem · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that bored looking guy playing solitaire on his laptop, complaining about his delayed flight?

      He's playing solitaire alright, but that PDA has an RFID scanner built in, and he's not syncing to keep his calendar up to date.

      Take a batch of stolen identities and just fly around the country for a few days, using credit cards made out to the names of stolen identities to finance the trip.

      You don't even have to take any international flights, just go through a few airports that have international terminals.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    4. Re:No control by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Can you cite where it says RFID transmits lots of information? Because it is my understanding that this works EXACTLY like EZPass...

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    5. Re:No control by danbuhler · · Score: 1

      exactly! it seems like no more than a cookie.

      i wonder where i could get an ezpass reader....

      mod parent up.

  24. Explain then by GuloGulo · · Score: 1

    How that's different than the current situation, where I don't even need to steal your RFID information to steal your identity?

    --
    "The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
  25. Re:Mark of the Beast! by DrXym · · Score: 1

    You'd have a point if people walked around with one, and possibly more barcodes visible upon their person.

  26. What about more powerful scanners by Onymous+Hero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Could more powerful or modified scanners be used to read the RFID chips only designed to be read from a short distance?

    IANARFIDE (I Am Not An RFID Engineer) ;)

    1. Re:What about more powerful scanners by jpetts · · Score: 1
      --
      Call me old fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it is devastating - Bender
    2. Re:What about more powerful scanners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Many (most) RFID "cards" receive the power to "transmit" from the reading device, ergo a more "powerful" device that has the ability to activate the RFID chip from further away and read the "reduced" signal strength of the RFID chip could make them readable from greater distances.

  27. Re:Mark of the Beast! by OverlordQ · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Please I beg to ask you why the parent is offtopic? It shows how rediclous arguments against RFID are.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  28. Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by Weaselmancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why not put a switch in the antenna's path? To use the card, you have to push a contact button to turn it on? That would stop passive scanning, right?

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by spyrochaete · · Score: 1

      Smart! You can actually line your wallet with tinfoil (stick a sheet in the billfold) to block or garble the outgoign RFID broadcast. That way you only reveal your code when you take the card out of your wallet.

    2. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by thiophene · · Score: 1

      This is perhaps the most reasonable approach to RFID technology that I have read on slashdot. A simple idea to combat a complex problem. Thank you, you've made my day.

    3. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by chriguhose · · Score: 1

      As with many other technological wonders you've exactly hit the point. Lots of privacy problems could be solved when people would be in control of when and to whom you release your sensitive information.

      This doesn't mean that there are plenty of scenarios where people could be tricked to give their information, but still one can argue that it brings the discussion to a different level, namely educating people to think.

      With the current state of always on identification, privacy is at an end.

    4. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by Em+Ellel · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is perhaps the most reasonable approach to RFID technology that I have read on slashdot. A simple idea to combat a complex problem. Thank you, you've made my day.

      One of the more interesting suggestions in the article is to make the document into a book-style (like passport) and make the cover from RF blocking material - meaning you have to open the "book" to be scanned.

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
    5. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 1

      Yes it would. Against advice, the Department of Homeland Security has insisted on contactless readers.

    6. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by tocs · · Score: 1
      It sounds like an ok idea, but why have the tag at all then. If you need to handle the document, to manually turn it on, why use wireless technology at all.


      Here is a list of the Representatives that voted for Real IDs. It passed unanimously in the Senate.

    7. Re:Devil's advocate - switch the antenna by Unlikely_Hero · · Score: 1

      But you see, that would go against the whole point of this thing.
      To, without our knowledge (come on, how many people even know about this outside of /., digg folk and techies like us) turn us into a watched society.
      If we're not easy to track...they don't /like/ that.
      And we wouldn't want them to get angry would we?
      We wouldn't want them to get /drunk/ again would we? (obligatory Dane Cook reference)

      --
      Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little.
  29. A minor nit.... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

    Even a RFID passport that emits only a few inches can be a danger if the criminals use more powerful amplifiers on their RFID receivers.

    Transmitters are powerful, receivers and preamps are sensitive.

    --
    "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    1. Re:A minor nit.... by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, there are no passive RFID readers, so his comment is correct. The reader
      has to be powerful enough to energize the RFID tag at the distance. If it can do that, since
      the RFID chip uses inductive coupling (as opposed to being a transmitter itself), then the
      reader is automatically sensitive enough to read it.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    2. Re:A minor nit.... by HotNeedleOfInquiry · · Score: 1

      Don't buy it. Agreed that an RFID "reader" has both a transmitter and receiver and the goal of longer range might be accomplished with either/or a more powerful transmitter or a more sensitive receiver, but it still grates my nerves to hear of "powerful receiver". You'd never speak of a "sensitive transmitter".

      --
      "Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
    3. Re:A minor nit.... by maxwells_deamon · · Score: 1

      You have assumed that the reader and what I will call the activator are the same device.

      The activator works by creating a variable magnetic field in a general area. The RFID tag converts this to energy and rebroad casts it in a pattern that the reader picks up.

      All that is needed to snoop is to have a reciver near where someone ELSE has set up a normal reader.

      Could I point a parabolic antenna at the enterance to a retail stote and read every tag that gets energized by the doorway arch?

      The RFID tag should only respond to an energy pulse that is coded. otherwise what prevents me from setting up land mines (or IEDs) that detonate when a passport walks by?

    4. Re:A minor nit.... by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      RFID and wireless smartcards use something called "Inductive Coupling" to transfer information
      from the card to the reader. What this means is that the antenna coils in the RFID and the
      reader create a loosely coupled transformer. When the RFID or smartcard wants to send
      information to the reader, it switches on/off a load connected to the antenna which changes
      the impedance of the whole system, including the impedance of the antenna on the reader. These
      changes in measured impedance are detected by the reader and interpretted according to
      whatever protocol is used.

      Now, it's very possible for several antennas to be coupled. In fact, it is specifically
      allowed for by the standards (otherwise how could a reader talk to multiple RFIDs or
      smartcards at the same time?). However, since there is no wave shaping (or whatever) going
      on, things that would increase sensitivity in a traditional radio frequency setup (like
      a pringles can or dish receiver) won't help. What matters is the distance between the
      antennas and the area inside the coils multiplied by the number of coils in each respective
      antenna.

      The most important thing to understand is that since each antenna is coupled with each other
      antenna, there is no such thing as a completely passive antenna. Each antenna added changes
      the measured impedance of all other coupled antennas and, as such, can be detected when
      entering or exiting the coupled system (I don't know of any hardware that attempts to detect
      entering/exiting antennas).

      So, is it impossible to read from a distance? No, but it is harder than with normal RF and
      has much shorter range. Is it impossible to eavesdrop another communication? No, but again,
      it has much shorter range and, as such, is more difficult.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
  30. A boon for terrorists by hpa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The U.S. gov't will start issuing RFID-equipped passports this fall. How long until we see the first U.S.-citizen-triggered bomb?

    1. Re:A boon for terrorists by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      Heck, just trigger the bomb when you detect any RFID signal. Only people and stuff from western nations will have them. Do you think for a second that Iranian, Syrian, and Lebanese passports will have RFID tags?

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    2. Re:A boon for terrorists by hpa · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Doesn't matter if it's encrypted or not.

    3. Re:A boon for terrorists by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      That could result in a lot of unexpected collateral damage if stores and other businesses outside of the West start using RFID in large volumes.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    4. Re:A boon for terrorists by chris_mahan · · Score: 1

      That's true, but again, I don't think the terrorists care.

      --

      "Piter, too, is dead."

    5. Re:A boon for terrorists by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      They do when the tide of public opinion turns overwhelmingly against them. Zarqawi has reportedly been facing this because of his targeting of Shi'ites rather than the Coalition. Various groups in Saudi Arabia and Jordan have run into this through their activities that have targeted Muslims instead of foreigners, leading to more civilians providing intelligence to the police.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    6. Re:A boon for terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, quite a few developing countries have already rolled out rfid passports to their diplomatic corps and normal citizenry, thanks to equipment donated and/or subsidized by the US and US foreign policy set to encourage such developments.

      considering where a person carries a passport (in a foreign land), I think most worries about bombs are overblown. life is so cheap in such places that they can take the risk of visual target identification by some lackey, and the target is likely a location with lots of white/different-looking people rather than an individual person or citizenship.

      the real victimization risk, I think, is more advanced criminals who gain one more way to trace back an identity when they think they've spotted a rich/whatever victim in a public place. find their home and family, and rob/kill/extort them later. this is already an issue with car license plates, public records, etc.

      I think the main concern is still the libertarian one of making mass-tracking of people too easy for government and corporate interests who want bulk data to mine. they can already track individuals with traditional means, but that is not cost effective for a whole population.

    7. Re:A boon for terrorists by danbuhler · · Score: 1

      Can nobody think of more effective ways of triggering bombs? Think of the effort in setting up a bomb like that compared to just firing a rocket off at the nearest bus.

  31. NO NO NO!!! YOU FOOL!!! by GuloGulo · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    You're actually thinking about this, and because of that, I would guess you also read the article.

    In either case, you're not qualified to comment as long as you are actually using your brain to process this information.

    Once you've stopped doing that, you may give input. We don't want anyone to see that the sky isn't actually falling, so keep your informed, intelligent, well thought out opinion to yourself.

    --
    "The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
  32. AHHHH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the mark of the beast! 666!

  33. I'm not sure if this applies But What About.. by u16084 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Mastercard and their PAYPASS cards? https://mbe2stl101.mastercard.net/hsm2stl101/publi c/login/ebusiness/mobile_commerce/paypass/index.js p/ Its RF also .. The range is about 2 inches... Im able to pull up to a gas pump, swipe my wallet next to the scanner and off im go. heres the documentation on their stuff https://mbe2stl101.mastercard.net/hsm2stl101/publi c/login/ebusiness/mobile_commerce/paypass/document ation/index.jsp/

    --
    -- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
  34. Blue sniper by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 3, Informative

    Remember this gadget?

    Who says there won't be a RFID-Sniper in the future?

    1. Re:Blue sniper by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      The basics of RFID technology say there won't be a RFID-Sniper.

      You just don't get it, do you?

      RFID readers are both POWER SOURCES and radio trancievers.

      Because bluetooth devices have thier own power source, they are totally different.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    2. Re:Blue sniper by xlv · · Score: 1
      The basics of RFID technology say there won't be a RFID-Sniper.

      You just don't get it, do you?

      RFID readers are both POWER SOURCES and radio trancievers.


      You may want to brush up on your telecommunication skills, specially the part about antenna technologies...

      And what makes you think that passive RFIDs can be read at close range by regular readers but they cannot be read at a longer range with a custom reader with a focused beam?

    3. Re:Blue sniper by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      It isn't the antenna technology that makes long range reading very difficult. If you want to use phrases like "bursh up," you had better back it up.

      If you could transmit power in "beams" we wouldn't need elctrical wires, would we?

      RFID uses a magnetic field to induce a current in a coil, which charges a capacitor that powers a tranceiver. Please explain how you can create a "beam" of magnet field that could induce a current a mile away.

      Or maybe you should "brush up."

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    4. Re:Blue sniper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm trying to guess what you don't get, but failing. Any RF antenna focuses energy recieved, as well as transmitted. So the same exact formulas work for "unpowered" RFID as work for bluetooth. I've worked with radar, GPS, WiFi, that I can't imagine it otherwise. Let's see if I can do this quickly making a silly error. If you double your range, the power received by the RFID chip is down 6 db. If you use a directly antenna with 6 db gain. The same is true for the return path, just like bluetooth. You don't need 12 db antenna gain. You get 6 db gain on transmit and 6 db on receive.

    5. Re:Blue sniper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The blurb says, "with an antenna a few inches long" which means the RFID is uses backscatter coupling not inductive coupling.

  35. RFID? by Topherbyte · · Score: 0

    Fsck that. Scan my bar code instead, plebeian!

    My RFID chip suffered an unfortunate accident when it met a pair of vice grips.

  36. Switches, tokens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Agreed. This echoes what I think is sound policy for, say, voting machines--avoid trusting the software. If something is really important, it's gotta have an electrical-level control.

    In the case of passports, ID cards, etc, just put in a thin air-filled blister on the card with conductive inner surfaces--pressing it completes a necessary contact, and then the RFID'll be active.

    Of course, I bet DHS would prefer to have the ability to do their own scanning regimen even if the carrier would rather avoid it.

    Why not a temporary "token" card, which can be linked to stored documents (picture, etc) that are entered into a database ahead of time, valid for a week or month? The token card itself is only a reference to stored data, and you can have a "fast-track lane" for people who set one up ahead of time...

    Uh. Just RTFA'd a bit more. They're already considering that. Oops.

  37. Recycle your Tinfoil Hat! by redelm · · Score: 1
    I knew keeping tinfoil around would come in handy! :)

    Seriously, if I get an RFID card, it's going inside a Faraday cage wallet. I don't mind RFID, but I'm going to control who I display to.

  38. Bah, who needs 30' of range by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    You can just put a transceiver in a fanny pack and some antennae in some strategic locations and then bump into people. Pickpockets do it all the time. I bet this would even work with the new RFID credit cards.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  39. Informative? WTF? by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    That ID is tied to biometric data and corroborating identification -- e.g scans of foreign passport/visas/drivers license etc. etc. Oh, and PHOTOGRAPHS.

    All that is on that damned card is an index number. So, sure, you go right ahead and swipe that baby at customs and have a good time with SGT Ufia.

    Honestly, do you people really think these things through? Cripes. The ID by itself is totally, 100%, COMPLETELY USELESS to anyone but the person associated with it unless you have madd haxx0r $|<i||z and can alter the central database that actually contains something other than a single number.

    1. Re:Informative? WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Um. It's not just an ID number. It contains the picture, name, and other biometric and address details. So yeah, it is a problem.

    2. Re:Informative? WTF? by dwandy · · Score: 1
      That ID is tied to biometric data and corroborating identification -- e.g scans of foreign passport/visas/drivers license etc. etc. Oh, and PHOTOGRAPHS.
      ...
      Honestly, do you people really think these things through? Cripes. The ID by itself is totally, 100%, COMPLETELY USELESS
      I like indignant people who yell that someone else hasn't thought it through, when they in fact havn't thought it through.... :)

      So here goes: I'm a bad-guy (tm). I want to move through a busy border without being noticed.
      So, I wait for someone of my race, my approximate build and height and if I'm lucky similar features. Add appropriate parts of disguise (a-la hollywood if necessary) and move through border.
      Since it's a busy border, and I'm some 30-ft away, moving in a line of other people, and since I resemble the picture that is streaming past the overworked border guard (s)he doesn't pay me another look.

      Meanwhile, I'm in as someone else.

      It only takes a little imagination to realise that while borders might be the first places the official readers are installed, it won't be long before they are used at landmarks and official buildings. Now as I enter a building (as you) and do my bad-things(tm) *you* will be questioned ... not me.

      At best your concerns with the plausibility of this scheme are limited to how well someone can disguise themselves, how quickly they need to move, and how often someone 'close-enough' broadcasts an ID number...

      --
      If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
  40. Privacy Invasion? by Marko+DeBeeste · · Score: 1
    You mean like having the government LITERALLY PHYSICALLY in your back pocket?

    Damn tinfoil weenies!!

    --
    Faith: n. -- That human impulse that drives them to steal appliances when the power goes out
  41. Clear up some of the FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let's clear a few things up, because there is a little FUD here... IANAL, but I am in the RFID business for commercial use (inventory management and the like)

    1. RDID tags come in a HUGE variety of types. You have to choose the right tag for the job. For example, is the item liquid? Is it metal? Is it a large crate? A small one? Etc. My guess is for a passport, the RFID tag would be a very short range (2-3" read type).

    2. There are active (like those attached to your toll tags, or to large pallats & containers). These have batteries in them. A passport won't have a battery in it.

    3. There are passive tags. These get charged by the antenna, that makes the circuit work. Think crystal radio here... same sort of concept. It charges the circuit, then the reader reads the tag.

    4. The tags generally (although they can) carry only a serial or lookup number. NOT specific information. The more info, the more expensive the tag. Some newer tags CAN carry things (like product expiriation dates, inventory dates, etc.)

    5. There are tags that can be both programmed and are read only. Depends on the type of tag. Both active and passive tags can do this. This means the reader can also program the tag.

    6. Readers are NOT hard to get. It's a commerical device. However, in most cases, the reader is specific to the tag type. There are SOME standards coming out now with the gen2 tags, but they are not in wide deployment. The readers are NOT CHEAP.

    So, here's my guess of what they would (or SHOULD) do:

    --very short range passive tag (would require the passport to nearly touch the reader)
    --Read only tag
    --Tag would only contain some sort of authentication string that would be read, decrypted, and authenticated to see if passport is real.
    --Tag would contain some sort of lookup string, which would be read, then queried on the backend systems to make sure the tag matches what's on the passport.

    ALL this can be done with protection of privacy, IF DONE RIGHT! It's being done today, specifically in the pharma industry.

    1. Re:Clear up some of the FUD by PowerKe · · Score: 3, Informative

      ALL this can be done with protection of privacy

      True, if you mean by privacy that someone else can't read your data without access to the database. However, the problem is that someone can still copy your RFID tag and write new data about you in the database. For example with this passport someone could cross the border with a copy of your RFID, marking you as being out of the country.

      You could make this harder by using active tags that use a private key to sign messages but don't reveal the private key itself. However, you could still impersonate someone if you work together with a partner in proximity of the victim and you proxy the signal. A way to defend against that would be very strict timings in the reader, but this would probable make the RFID tag too expensive as well. (If you allow 1 millisecond variation in response time, you could proxy the signal 150 km)

      It might be possible to do it right, but it probably won't be done.

    2. Re:Clear up some of the FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You are wrong at least in one thing - the RFID's of US passports are containing all the same information printed on it.

  42. You can't secure thousands of miles of anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    History has proven that. You can't force all American employers to jump through yet more hoops to simply employ people without hurting the economy. As long as you have the economic the imbalance between what millions can make in Mexico vs. what they can make in the US, black markets will insure that labor will move across, over, under, or around said border or great wall. This black market will also corrupt both the US and Mexican governments to the extent the labor needs to flow. RealIDs will be purchasable along with SS cards or whatever is needed. The corrupt bureaucrats that enable fake SS cards will add a new document to the price list. All the walls and rules and massive sinkholes of American taxpayer money will do is change the pricing.

    Until Mexico grows a bigger middle class and a government that provides opportunities at home, we will have a problem at our southern borders. If they move in a more socialist direction, things will only get worse at home and more will go El Norte. Why shouldn't they. No stinking law would have kept my English and Irish-German dog roots out of the promised land, and a new great wall for America won't change that for Latin Americans.

    Like the failed drug war, the war on the southern border will end as a spectacular failure. It will end up as a war against ourselves, our businesses, and ultimately our freedoms.

    1. Re:You can't secure thousands of miles of anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would be extremely easy to almost completely halt the flow of illegals-it is called frozen bank accounts of the top officials and business inside of mexico. We do that with other nations we have a serious beef with! If we can make it illegal to do business with Iran or cuba, it could be the same with mexico until they clean up their act, and putting pressure at a few points at the very top would be a lot easier than trying to corral millions at the bottom! No leaks so they can transfer funds, just one day freeze their accounts, call in the ambassador, politely inform him that the accounts become unfrozen as soon as THEIR police and military secure THEIR side of the border. Combine that with only 10% of the effort with the troops and gear we are using in the middle east with our troops on OUR side of the border and it would stop well over 90% of the illegal traffic within a few weeks. Catch any jumpers, one year hard labor, no pay, second time caught, 5 years hard labor, no pay. they will get the message. Apply for legal status or *don'ty try*. Very few people want to totally restrict immigration, but uncontrolled anarchy is not the sign of a well run soverign nation. We have borders for a variety of perfectly legitimate reasons.

          Now enforce the laws on the books about hiring illegals in THIS nation, start making examples, throw high level business owners in jail(tyson foods execs, etc), mid level(owners of hotels, motels, restaurants, large corporate farmers, etc), down to the local contractor level (building trades, construction, etc) using pickup help, that would get rid of around 9% more, leaving 1%, and those rest could be picked up "normally" like what happens now.

          There's no reason it should be this easy for them to just waltz in, do whatever the hell they feel like, get drivers licenses, rent houses, get bank accounts, get their dozen kids all planted in the local school system paid with OTHER peoples local money for the most part, etc except by collusion with those places and the connivance of a government run by fatcats who are drinkin and coke snortin and sex slave exploiting drooling dweebs, exactly the same as their high level controller class compadres south of the border.

      And that is why it won't happen, they collectively WANT the US to be second world status with rulers and serfs. the easiest way to do that is to smash the middle class. the easiest way to do that is export as many middle class jobs as possible and import as many legals or illegals as it takes to drop the remaining jobs down to serf status.

      Which is exactly what is happening and what will continue to happen, no matter any feel good "immigration reform" nonsense they pass. They have been able to control this forever, they DON'T WANT TO.

      And I really don't want to hear any of that "nation of imigrants" crap from anyone, that was cool way back when we still had the bulk of the nation as "free land" and very little laws and you could get by with work and barter with not much money. It's not like that now. We can't absorb the entire third world that wants to immigrate here, it just will not work.

      As to mexico, check out this recent article:

      http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/20060418 -1004-mexico-mistreatingmigrants.html

      THAT is what the so called wonderful folks in Mexico with their even better "culture" do to THEIR illegal immigrants. Biggest bunch of hypocritical jerk offs out there.

  43. Oh, you got it wrong by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    If it creates a problem, all the more a reason for stricter laws and more surveillance. For your safety, of course.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  44. defcon 2005 by farker+haiku · · Score: 4, Informative

    At defcon 2005 some guys set a record for reading passive tags at 69 feet. With pics :)

    --
    Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
    1. Re:defcon 2005 by DocJTM · · Score: 1

      A lot of people have mentioned potential terrorist uses of long-range RFID scanning here, but how about usage by simple thieves? If OEMs started putting the RFIDs in the products themselves (do they or will they?) like TVs, computers, etc. rather than in the packaging, it seems this might make it incredibly easy for criminals to walk/drive down a street and pick out the most lucrative houses to rob no? I'm assuming of course that the radio freqs used in RFID can go through walls like wireless does, I didn't RTFA though...

  45. I don't get it! by scronline · · Score: 1

    Why do they have to be broadcasting RFID tags? Why can't they have a physical interface? You know, like the magentic strip on the back of everything? I don't see why we can use a physical contact patch on it instead of a broadcasted signal. After all, we've been using physical contact for interfacing devices for decades in the computer world and for centuries in other walks of life.

    I wouldn't have a bit of a problem if a contact patch were used instead of a broadcasted signal. Not like it would be hard to make a small unit you slide the card into that puts it into position to be read, then kicks it out when it's finished.

    1. Re:I don't get it! by loyukfai · · Score: 1

      1. Convenience
      2. Long lasting
      3. More reliable

      ???

    2. Re:I don't get it! by scronline · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Security and convience don't exist in the same sentence or device. You can't have one without the other.

      I don't see the difference with long lasting...a chip is a chip. For that matter, why can't a magnetic strip be used since it's supposedly just holding a unique number that is used to contact a database anyway?

      So you're going to tell me that a radio signal is more reliable than a direct connect? I want some of what you're smoking.

    3. Re:I don't get it! by loyukfai · · Score: 1

      You asked what's the advantages of contactless cards, so I replied, straight to the point IMO.

      Here is my reply:

      1. I think what you meant was "You can't have one without (negatively affecting) the other."
      2. Magnetic strips can be rendered useless if seriously scratched, which is a matter of time. However, I've no idea about the longevity (if there's any limit) of contactless cards.
      3. I didn't.

      I have no idea why are you talking so angrily, but no, I don't smoke, and have a nice day.

    4. Re:I don't get it! by scronline · · Score: 1

      I apologize if my comments were taken angrily. I didn't mean it as such. That's a downside of a typed conversation. You do have a valid points. I'm just hoping that instead of RFID they see that broadcasting data = baaaaaad. That was more what my point was meant to be with a sarcastic delivery :)

    5. Re:I don't get it! by uncle_sum_ · · Score: 1

      I don't think the notion of an RFID tag transmitting my lifestory is anywhere near as scary as a massive database linked to major transportation hubs everywhere and being administrated by your average Joe security guy.

      Why go for the technical hack that involves possibly defeating encryption and security thugs roaming around the airport or trainstation looking for geeks with yagi antennas? The minimum wage security guy will scan everyone for you for less than the price of the equipment you'd want to use in the firstplace. The weakest link in most networks is the human one.

      I'm sure there was once a time when someone thought watermarks were just the greatest security feature ever. The weakness in these kinds of technologies seems to remain the same. The difference now is the scale of the potential compromises and abuses of the folks that administrate it.

      Regardless of how or what technologies are used, the evolution of the hack will rise to meet the demand.
    6. Re:I don't get it! by loyukfai · · Score: 1

      Nevermind, anyway I think that such technology should be more widely-tested and obtain more public input before a mass adoption, especially for personal identification purpose. There are many concerns, which you may find in other posts, that don't seem to have been addressed yet.

      For once, here in Hong Kong, such technology has been used for paying transportation fare for years and have been proven successful in the sense of adoption rate (well, the why is worthy of a case study).

      The local government is pushing a similar technology but at least it is NOT contactless - You need put the card into a card reader to access the data on the chip (which, BTW, such technology can store much more data than magnetic strips, so I was told...), which said to be "very secure".

      For more information: http://www.smartid.gov.hk/en/faq/index.html

    7. Re:I don't get it! by loyukfai · · Score: 1

      BTW... The technology of Smart ID is NOT contactless.

  46. Um, yeah by Anopheles · · Score: 1

    From what I was reading on this awhile ago, there was a proposal to reduce this threat in two ways:

    1) Drop some biometric information and images in the RFID tag.
    2) encrypt the data on the rfid tag embedded in the passport, and checksum it with an obscure algorithm.
    3) put a pgp key (or some other key), maybe on a barcode, on the passport that allows the security official to decode the data, and verify that the checksum matches the data, and verify the biometrics to see if X is really who he says it is.

    That way, somebody would have to eavesdrop with an RFID detector, brute-force the data out, chop off your finger, surgically implant it on yourself (or change the fingerprint embedded in the RFID tag), rechecksum it, etc.

    Now, this is still possible to forge, but the problem is no longer RFID related, and requires a lot more work to forge. Any takers on why this wouldn't be OK?

    1. Re:Um, yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it sure doesn't solve one of the problems stated in earlier posts. All the evildoers have to do is blow up/kidnap anybody with an RFID tag, since anybody with an RFID tag on them is either Western or wealthy or both. At that point the method of storage is irrelevant compared to the value of simply detecting that the technology is being used.

    2. Re:Um, yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encrypt the it all you like, its still a unique key for each person, which makes us very trackable.

  47. You don't need to. by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    Sparing the details, there are only 771M possible SSNs currently out there. If you came from, say, Vermont, the odds of guessing your SSN correctly, in order, the first time would only be a 1:2M. It's easier to calculate a valid SSN than to harvest one by any means.

    What's NOT easy to do is match the other _necessary_ information to make that number useful and that is no different for this or any other number, whether stored in an RFID chip, printed in a barcode or tatooed on your butt.

    1. Re:You don't need to. by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 1
      It *is* easy to match the numbers with useful information. You can already buy matched SSNs on the black market. Every time another bank loses a laptop with a list of millions of customer accounts on it, more of this information gets out in the wild. This is already a huge problem for identity theft, etc.

      SSNs are bad enough (and they should be eliminated and replaced with smart cards or some other tamper-resistant technology, and they should be banned as use for a key in commercial databases). But now we're talking about the government assigning numbers that are just like SSNs, but can be read remotely. That's an order of magnitude worse. It's like telling everyone that they have to tatoo their SSNs on their foreheads.

  48. From TFA: by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    "What we're putting in the card is possibly nothing but a 96-digit serial number that is random and would do nothing but point back to a database...someone would have to hack into our database at the same time,"

    Again, total ignorance marked as "informative."

  49. Lay off the Philip K Dick. by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    You'd also have to have the same finger prints and iris geometry...and that isn't on the card.

    The amount of work you'd have to go through to make this ID useful as a "forgery" is so ridiculous as to make it possible only for those who have access to a government intelligence agency's resources...or a checking account large enough to simulate such.

    1. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
      Have you ever gone through a border crossing? I came back through Mexico once with some prescription drugs and they wouldn't let me declare them. They only looked at my ID because I laid it down on the counter. Nearly everyone (who was white) was waved through. Canadian border was just as bad. Oddly, it was quite an ordeal to get into Canada, but coming back they just waved me through.

      I'd say this will make them even less strict. Also, if someone stole your RFID info and came across in a car later linked to a crime you'd be linked to this crime.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    2. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by timmy+the+large · · Score: 1
      If the goverment plans or fingerprinting me and doing an iris geometry scan then what is the purpose of this card? Why not instead use the biometric data as my ID?

      The reason is that they want to be able to scan people at a distance were they can not use biometric sources. Since they can not use those sources it does not matter that the person impersonating you does not match your biometric features as they will not be checked. This isn't so they can apply for a home loan, this is so that they can illegally enter the US with nefarious purposes. They want to be able to scan a bus as it drives past a checkpoint without stopping.

    3. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by rossifer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You'd also have to have the same finger prints and iris geometry...and that isn't on the card.

      You didn't RTFA. The whole point of this card is so that people don't have to open their car windows or slow down at border crossings because the current border crossings interfere with commerce.

      When cars are moving past the checkpoint at 30-60mph, which of the machines there are going to check finger prints and iris geometry again?

      Regards,
      Ross

    4. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by aberrantvirtue · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's because the Canadians actually guard their borders. (I know, I know. I'm trolling.)

    5. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by idontgno · · Score: 2, Funny
      When cars are moving past the checkpoint at 30-60mph, which of the machines there are going to check finger prints and iris geometry again?

      I'm guessing it'll be like a toll booth change bucket; just toss your finger and your eyeball into the basket and you're off!

      How you detach those components and grow them back later is your problem.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    6. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by Ced_Ex · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nearly everyone (who was white) was waved through. Canadian border was just as bad. Oddly, it was quite an ordeal to get into Canada, but coming back they just waved me through.

      I've always had the situation when going into the US, they ask if I have and fresh fruit/vegetables or meats to declare. However, when I go into Canada, I'm always asked if I have any firearms or weapons to declare.

      --
      Live forever, or die trying.
    7. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by Tanktalus · · Score: 1

      Really? I would have expected that on your way into the US from Canada, you'd be asked if you had any softwood lumber to declare... :-)

    8. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

      No, I did RTFA. I'm not arguing that it will be effective in that capacity. What I'm arguing is that access to that ID number does not give access to anything else. People are saying that all this personal info is just a radio signal away and that you'll be the victim of identity theft, blah blah blah. As for the rest? Meh. Your more likely to be the victim of such number association by random chance than active scanning--because that's ALL the chip sends out. Your cellphone is more dangerous, by a long shot.

      Just because I think the chicken-littles are full of it doesn't mean I'm a fanboy for every conceivable implication of the system.

    9. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by Picard102 · · Score: 1

      I dont know what crossing you were at, but where I cross, on almost a daily basis, they ID everytime.

    10. Re:Lay off the Philip K Dick. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are saying that all this personal info is just a radio signal away and that you'll be the victim of identity theft, blah blah blah.

      No.

      People are saying that your ID number is just a radio signal away and that you'll be the victim of identity theft.

      As others have pointed out- all someone has to do is scan the ID of someone who looks liek them, then drive thru the border, broadcasting the other person's ID number.

  50. dumb by hey · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but RFID just seems like so dumb.
    Now border guards just scan the barcode. What's wrong with that???

  51. Sniffer by J05H · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One potential threat for American travellers carrying this kind of chip is a sniffer weapon. The hi-tech version is an RFID sensitive smart missile and the dumber version is an IED in Cairo that sits and waits for Joe Sixpack to walk by. If you think I'm full of it, the Russians used a cell-phone sniffing missile to kill a Chechen general. For US RFID passports in other countries, all the munition needs to do is detect the chip's presense.

    I want my "papers" to stay paper, please. Bar code them or whatever, but don't delibrately make it prone to identity theft, hacking or IEDs.

    Josh

    --
    gigantino.tv - Heavy but weighs nothing.
  52. How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1
    Set off a Bomb when person id code 46465456456489715678984 walks by
    Terrorists typically don't target specific people, by this I mean target Fred Smith versus targeting any generic American. They target locations. They blow up the WTC, the Madrid train station, a Mosque, or a bar in Bali. Killers target specific people, and using RFID to kill a specific person is overkill (pun intended). There are many, far easier ways, to target specific person. Now if the original can be moderated funny, I would have understood.
    1. Re:How is this insightful?? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      There aren't that many ways to do it and not be near the strike when it happens.
      Scenario:
      Scan targets RFID/group of RFIDs away from strike location.
      Program scanning trigger/ordnance package and install in innocent-looking object placed where target will pass nearby. A cross between a claymore and a fire extinguisher would do.
      Establish wonderful alibi far, far, away.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      If you're wanting to kill a specific person there are a lot of ways that are low tech and don't require you to be near them. Poison in their sack lunch. A bomb connected to the ignition of their car. A high-powered rifle and a sniper position. Poison in their heart/blood pressure/or whatever medication. A bomb hidden under their bed set to go off in the middle of the night. The list goes on and on.

    3. Re:How is this insightful?? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Of course, but:
      Poison generally requires access to targets personal circle.
      Car bomb requires access to their car and time to install the device.
      Sniping has a relatively high risk of apprehension and requires a sniper on-scene.
      Bomb under bed requires access to sleeping quarters.
      On the other hand, RFID code harvesting could be done under direct optical surveillance without anyone noticing.
      Take the Alfred Herrhausen case as an example of a neatly planned and executed strike. While his assassins used an optical trigger and timed the detonation to line up precisely with the desired spot on his vehicle, the idea is the same.
      The terror effect of a surgical remote kill on a specific target is considerable. The same shaped-charge bicycle bomb could be used with RFID scanning. How noticeable is an ordinary bicycle in an urban setting? Park on the street on the way to the local coffeehouse, target walks by, end of game.
      For bigger fish, RFID scanners could be located near target while large ordnance could be placed further away, and need not be delivered at the same time.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      We'll just have to agree to disagree. In my view, this "RFID process" that you're talking about is overkill. Is it possible, certainly. Do I think it is likely or even probable, no. I will be very surprised to see it used as a terror weapon.

    5. Re:How is this insightful?? by 955301 · · Score: 1

      But you can count how many people are in the area and crowds attract political bombers too. ....
      while (victims.size() 100) {
              victims.mergeAndPrune(scanForVictims());
      }
      trigger(); ....

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    6. Re:How is this insightful?? by 955301 · · Score: 1


      it won't be overkill when it's out of the early adoption phase. And it will be perfect for assassinating someone and making it look like collateral damage bombing instead. just wait until the person goes by AND the count of other detected rfid's is high as well.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    7. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      They could do the same thing today with cellphones that have unique IDs and are common. Or with ID badges that have technology similar to RFIDs that are also common. In the town I live in, a high percentage of workers wear them. My point, just because you can, doesn't mean it will happen.

    8. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      But there are far easier ways to do this - Attack a Mosque or a Church on a religious holiday. Attack an office building in the middle of the work day. Attack a shopping mall on Black Friday. Attack a train station during rush hour. Its easy to find a crowd, I don't need to go to high tech means to find one. More layers of complexity you add to a plot, the greater the likelihood that it will fail. Terrorism follows the KISS principle - keep it simple, stupid.

    9. Re:How is this insightful?? by Godeke · · Score: 1

      Just because you can, doesn't mean it won't either. In fact, it tends against the negative case, being by definition possible. Given enough time, even the unlikely becomes probable.

      I suspect it won't happen until RFID readers are as common as CueCats in garbage dumps and every license has a RFID in it. At that point it becomes a viable Keep it Simple Stupid solution for target acquisition. No need to hang around with a remote in your hand or wondering if the right person will be where you expect them to be. Just wait for the code to be present and things come to their sad conclusion.

      Considering the level of effort show by some of the mob murders, I wouldn't discount motivated or sick people's willingness to use technology.

      --
      Sig under construction since 1998.
    10. Re:How is this insightful?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says terrorists will be the only ones to abuse this? Last time I looked John Wilkes Booth, Charles Guiteau, Leon Franz Czolgosz, and Lee Harvey Oswald were all Americans.

    11. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1

      True, and they all used low tech methods. My whole point is that people talk about this as an enabling technology for murder and terror. But murderers and terrorists don't generally use high tech. They use low tech. (I consider a cellphone as a detonator low tech.) They don't use sophisticated technology to locate their victim or victims, they use common sense. For crowds, they go where the crowds are. For a specific individual, they go to where they know the individual will be - his home, his workplace, or an well-known meeting. Do the Palestinians have a difficult time finding crowds in Israel? No. Did Booth have a hard time finding Lincoln? No.

    12. Re:How is this insightful?? by 955301 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure it hasn't? There are hundreds of bombings in populated cafe's, shopping plazas and buses to look over. I would bet all of my karma that a few of them had rf triggers that detonated when mobile phones transmitting in the vicinity got abundant enough.

      I'd believe your logic more if the town you speak of is Baghdad.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    13. Re:How is this insightful?? by 955301 · · Score: 1

      (I consider a cellphone as a detonator low tech.)

      Tell me, if cell phones weren't as abundant and a considerable effort had to be made to turn them into a reliable detonator, would you consider them low tech then? I ask because your argument sounds strangely like "uncomplicated" and not "low tech". Using a cellular rf transceiver attached to the POTS and detonated remotely sounds pretty high tech to me.

      Once rfid becomes commonplace, it will become a useful option. That's not to say that there will be a documented unclassified event to point to, but isn't the whole point of counterterrorism to reduce the useful options?

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    14. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1
      but isn't the whole point of counterterrorism to reduce the useful options?
      In my view the cellphone detonator is a simple variation on an age old means of detonating bombs. Bombs have been detonated using radios (e.g, walkie talkies) for ages. Cellphone detonators are an obvious and straight forward variation on that idea. They don't involve writing software, as some of the RFID examples in this thread describe. They are relatively uncomplicated. You could do the same thing with a walkie talkie, a RF-control for a model car or plane, or a garage door opener. Since murderers and terrorists use these routinely in their bombs, should we ban them? No.

      I am asking for common sense. Any technology can be used for evil. You need to compare the good to the evil, which comes out on top. When I was in high school, one of my teachers told me how many people were against electricity because "because people could die from electrocution." Something that obviously happens. But balancing it against the good things that it provides, the lives saved by monitors in hospitals, the quality of life improvements it brings to everyone, the good outweighs the evil. I argue the same thing is true for cellphones, batteries, and RFID which all have murder and terrorist applications.

    15. Re:How is this insightful?? by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 1
      I would challenge you to find a published report of a mass killing in Iraq in a cafe, shopping plaza or similar location that did not involve a suicide bomber - either wearing a bomb vest or driving a explosive laden car. The bombers in Iraq are not using high tech devices to set off the bombs. They are using humans to identify the target and detonate the bomb.

      See for example this discussion of IEDs used against the troops in Iraq.

    16. Re:How is this insightful?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except you're missing the point because someone along the way (parent) made this about killing a specific person.

      If the US is the first country to implement RFID tags en masse on passports, this will make US citizens in foreign lands targets since it is a unique identifier (killing based on nationality). If the ID in some way has a unique header or some class verification that makes it known it's a passport, US citizens can be targetted.

      Worse, in lands where RFID is certainly not the standard (say, Iraq) in the land, simply identifying an RFID signal means detection of an RFID signal equates to Americans around. The device could be made to even detect a certain pattern or number of IDs before triggering.

      Such triggering could be random, based on time of day, absolute number of IDs detected (more casualties), number detected in a time period (trigger in the middle of a convoy), etc. etc.

      The terrorist doesn't even have to be around either. Terrorists often adapt new tactics to maximize impact, so they have been shown to change.

      Quite frankly, RFIDs in passports are a frickin STUPID idea. This has been voiced many times earlier; such a suggestion to use RFIDs as a bomb trigger was mentioned in passing on Declan's politech list (politechbot.com I beleve) last year. This is providing them a new tool, one that makes finding Ameicans in the real world and in real time.

  53. Cellphone, anyone? by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    Nearly everyone carries them and they broadcast a number that just as well identifies you--but even better, you can call it up to make sure the right person is carrying it at the time.

  54. New RFID Blocking Passport Holder by bahwi · · Score: 1

    Based off of The RFID Blocking Wallet anyone?

  55. Mommy, he yelled at me first! by dwandy · · Score: 1
    Are you reading Minority Report or TFA?
    TFA says nothing about the database containing biometric data, nor does it say that any other biometric data will be checked*. And quite frankly, if the border does start getting iris and/or fingerprint scans for everyone ...well, then WTF is the RFID for? You are then eliminating all the benefits of having an RFID system: you still need the person to stop and present.
    What would be the benefit compared with a carried paper passport with your picture and a bar code?

    *Except for the last line in TFA, where it says some such data might be needed to make the broadcast happen - but this is different from it being stored in the database....

    --
    If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
  56. My trusty Tinfoil hat.. by Procrastin8er · · Score: 0

    ...would protect me!!!

    --
    Slashdot - Where the slash is most definitely to the left.
  57. A few thoughts: by slashbob22 · · Score: 1

    1) Drop some biometric information and images in the RFID tag.
    The RFID tag is already unique to me. Putting more information on would allow more data mining, if nothing else.

    2) encrypt the data on the rfid tag embedded in the passport, and checksum it with an obscure algorithm.
    I hate obscure algorithms. Might as well use the Ceasar Cipher +4 like the Mafia Boss. Its not used much - for good reason. Assuming you do use a secure algorithim, someone would only have to steal the decryption key to make it useful to them. Considering it will likely be widely used by authorities, this should be easy.

    3) See in #2 above the issues with allowing any authority to decrypt -- assuming they are all using the same key.

    That way, somebody would have to eavesdrop with an RFID detector, brute-force the data out, chop off your finger, surgically implant it on yourself (or change the fingerprint embedded in the RFID tag), rechecksum it, etc.
    Assuming everything else was air-tight and that someone really wants to impersonate someone else. I suspect we'll be seeing a few people who are missing fingers. The only plus to this is that if you have your identity stolen you can walk into the local police station and show them that you are missing a finger. It may not solve the case, but they sure as heck will start right away.

    --
    Proof by very large bribes. QED.
  58. Re:Mark of the Beast! by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

    Judging from the moderation on my post it seems like the \. Sheeple have been to ingrained with "RFID is EVIL!". My post was hardly anything flamebait worthy, I'd like to see a valid criticism against RFID besides "OH NOES OUR RIGHTS!".

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  59. How about this... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

    I witnessed a hit and run. It took photos. The local city council doesn't want to slow traffic through this perticular residential neighborhood, as they are using it as an unofficial alternate route for the state highway. They are doing this because the local money doesn't want a new freeway built. (the land for the freeway is already owned, and cleared. The local police tell the victims of the hit and run that they don't take reports on hit and runs, as it is a civil matter. I report this to the city mayor, and local media. The mayor tells me that she will speak to the police chief, and I will recieve a call. A few days later I get a call from the police. The police threaten me with violence if I don't drop the issue.

    Now, that I've detailed what has ACTUALLY happened, lets talk about what the RFID can do to get me killed. I go to the movies, and while walking to my car, my RFID tag informs a local police officer that I am in a dark parking garage by myself. I never make it out alive, and the subsequent investigation never finds the "unknown" assailent.

    We know that we already have a problem with corrupt cops. It isn't a debate about IF we have police corruption. It is a debate about how bad the corruption is. Consider the ramification of cities putting up sensors on every intersection. You know like the cameras they are putting up now. This gives a few people the ability to track you as an individual anywhere you go. You better hope that you pay your proper kickbacks to your local police.

  60. If you've done nothing wrong... by Muzungo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear This wonderful new technology will enable us, your benign and caring government to protect you from identity theft/terrorists/child molestors Unfortunately, its not really effective if those pesky terrorists/id thieves/child molestors can simply chose not to carry any RFID tags.. so of course you won't mind if we embed this RFID tag in your baby's cranium while its still soft ? Its for your protection.

  61. They all laughed at me when... by Yamaha2000usyahoo.co · · Score: 1

    I filed a patent for my tin foil suit back in 1986.

    --
    Anger has its uses. Here, let me show you.
  62. Lead Wallet by un1xl0ser · · Score: 1

    So keep your ID cards in a lead wallet. First there were tinfoil hats, then lead wallets. What will be next?

    --
    v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
    1. Re:Lead Wallet by bdleonard · · Score: 1

      Iron underpants?

  63. Who's IDs will be read? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What will they say when someone starts reading the IDs of government agents?

  64. semantics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That is a pretty easy way to assassinate someone, just take out the whole building/plane/car whatever they are in. Then it's not an assasination, it's a "random terrorist event". Governments even do it overtly, we are always hearing about the US or israel "targetting" someone and just demoloshing the house or village they are in. that's not called terrorism though, that is targeted assassination with collateral damage, but it's the same thing really.

    Now say some group doesn't like "collaborators", people who work "for the enemy". so they set off a device where all these collaborators are. Is that terrorism, legitimate (assymetrical) warfare, or group assassination? It's not random, the place was picked out for a particular purpose (say the collaborators puppet police station entrance), although the setters don't really care exactly who they get, as long as they get some of them.

    Semantics nowadays, just depends on which side of where you stand to assign a noun to an event. The Boston Tea Party-terrorists, freedom fighters, cheap and drunk holligan tax dodgers? It all fits, doesn't it?

  65. privacy anyway by zenray · · Score: 1

    http://www.rpi-polymath.com/ducttape/RFIDWallet.ph p I've tested it with a new proximity door access system we now have at work and it does block the signal. Note that you should modify the wallet to create a passport or PASS holder as needed.

    --
    zenray
  66. will it .. won't it .. by eyeb1 · · Score: 1

    i don't know why human beings have not figured this out yet .. it's not like we are at the beginning of the industrial revolution ..

    personally i think it has a great deal to do with generational amnesia ..

    that any and all technologies that are developed .. will have just as many potential downsides as potential upsides .. the developer .. the advertisers .. those advocating it's use .. those looking to make a profit from it .. seldom if ever .. are willing to admit this .. and never want to discus it .. they/we just don't ask enough "what if" questions at the beginning of anything we are developing/changing in the modern world ..

    as long as there is a self interest or a profit motive .. this will always be the case ..

    just for example .. that the large scale use of automobiles burning fossil fuels .. may lead to dangerous levels of pollution and/or catastrophic climate change .. that having large numbers of people using cell phones while driving .. is like having a large number of drunken drivers on the road .. or that weapon systems developed to defend someone can just as easily be used against them .. the list goes on .. and on ..

    What If ..

    the bottom line is that there are just as many possible downsides as upsides in all cases ..

    and it is not whether some technology that is developed .. will be used for nefarious purposes by someone .. it is just when .. by whom .. to what extent and to what end ..

    1. Re:will it .. won't it .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you, Miss Dickinson.

  67. This whole RFID thing is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole RFID thing is stupid.

    To protect it's citizen's liberties, the US should erect a giant steel-reinforced concrete wall at least....say, 50ft high, 30 feet deep and 30 feet thick around all of it's land borders. It should be manned 24/7/365.25 by no fewer than 2 armed guards per 100 yards, with anti-air/missile turrets every 500 yds. All non designated approaches should be mined and monitored by snipers and flamethrowers. The ground beneath it should be seismically monitored for digging and the air above it should be patrolled by aircraft, drones, radar and satellites...preferably with lasers that can lance flying objects.

    To protect against oceanic ingress, special weapons platforms should be built. On each platform (spaced no further apart than 1 mile) there should exist a small arsenal of tactical nuclear and conventional naval missiles, air-to-air interceptors, helicopters, all with a standoff range of no less than 100 miles. All non designated shipping lanes should be mined.

    At all designated ingress points (gates in the Wall, shipping lanes, airports) every single person entering the US should be fully searched (inc body cavities), de-loused, given a full medical exam and background check, fingerprinted, and pumped full of antibiotics. After a mandatory 1 week quarantine, they can be tagged and released back into the general population with government approved coveralls and footwear, *provided* they check in with their designated state chaperon every 24 hrs. After a thorough search of their shipped belongings (taking no longer than 2 weeks), all of their approved personal effects will be delivered to the address of their choosing. All currency, credit cards and other means of monetary trade would be exempt from this search---they can use those immediately.

    All incoming media of any kind should also be fully controlled by the governemnt. Books, movies, music, internet content; all must pass strict regulatory guidelines before being heard by the general public.

    I think my plan will make us all so very safe. In the meantime I'll lie awake at night agonizing over my frail mortality,and the most certain fact that I will likely die of a terrorist attack instead of a car crash, cancer, stroke, AIDs, diabetes or global climate change.

  68. That's Six Inches???!!! by Stephen+Samuel · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The DHS, put out a Request For Information (RFI) looking for someone who had the technology to read ID tags from 25 feet away at 55MPH... Through the skin of a bus... All the passengers at once.

    They seem to suggest that they only want it so that they can identify people stopped at border checkpoints.

    --
    Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
  69. USA-Visit by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    No, it's not in the article, but it IS part of the USA-Visit system and the ID is just the index number to the data they collect. This article is not the definitive source of information on that program. I would suggest you search Google News for the "missing" information.

    I'm not arguing the merits of RFID, I'm arguing the asinine absurdity of thinking that access to that ID number is any more dangerous than any of the plethora of similarly [pseudo]-random numbers that are associated with us already.

  70. MOD PARENT UP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm as paranoid about Big Brother as anyone, but let's be rational about what can actually come of this.

  71. That's precisely my point. by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    People are responding that all this crap is on the card and that someone will be able to get a home loan, access their bank records and whatever other assorted "identity theft" issues--and that's a crock. As for why the biometric source _and_ the ID?

    How much do you know about identity systems and databases in general? It is MUCH easier to grab an index and do a 1:1 comparison to verify identity than to do a pattern match on a 1:500000000 scale.

    Get it now?

  72. Even the Homeland Security site says 100 feet... by SmoothTom · · Score: 2, Informative
    The Homeland Security site, in the section that discusses the testing of the current RFID equipped '94's, suggests reading the info contained in the chops from up to 100 feet away on a regular basis:

    * US VISIT intends to build upon the technologies and management systems previously employed for entry in order to realize an automated entry exit process. RFID technology offers a solution for a potentially faster, biometrically enhanced entry exit operation.

    * Using an automatic identifier, RFID technology can detect a visitor at a distance (up to 100 feet) and provide primary inspection with entry information. RFID technology can also provide a mechanism for an accurate and timely record of exits without requiring visitors to interrupt their travels by stopping or even slowing down to check out.
    ...
    * US VISIT will ensure that our visitors' information is always protected. The RFID technology used by US VISIT will protect sensitive information because it will read only a randomly-generated number that links to visitors' information stored securely in a database. It will also be tamper proof and difficult to counterfeit or surreptitiously read.

    (From a Homeland Security Press Release.

    Not only that, this is discussing doing that while the RFID equipped form is in the possession of the person in a moving car...

    A couple of inches? Yeah, right.

    --
    Tomas

  73. Talk about marking yourself with a bullseye .... by Gorshkov · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From the article:
    RFID chips are already going to appear in U.S. passports starting in October 2006, the Bush administration ruled last October.

    a) That's gonna seriously screw up some american tourist's habit of wearing maple leaf emblems on their clothing/backpacks so they can claim to be Canadian.

    b) Congrats - you just enabled every wanna-be terrorist to be able to track down and find an american in any crowd. Gonna make it much easier to figure out which foreign tourists you want to kidnap, don't you think?

  74. No Data by C10H14N2 · · Score: 1

    Goddamnit, these things echo out a single 96-byte number. Period. End of story. That's it.

    No one, without linking to the central database, can determine SQUAT from that number.

  75. Active RFID by ACMENEWSLLC · · Score: 1

    We use RFID. But we don't use the cheap ones like this.

    We have Active RFID. They are password protected, encrypted, and only transmit data when a properly encrypted password protected SEND DATA command is transmitted. We use a special encoding, not off the shelf encoding. A standard reader cannot read these tags.

    The batterys last 5 years on average. 3 on heavy use, 7 on minimum use.

    We've been doing this for 10 years now.

    To me, this seems to be the solution. And if anyone trys to hack this, the DMCA would be the way to lock them up and throw away the key, right?

  76. NO panacea by rblum · · Score: 1

    panacea (pn'-s'):
    A remedy for all diseases, evils, or difficulties; a cure-all.

  77. And then what? by wsanders · · Score: 1

    You have a big random number, like having someone's public key. BFD. Unless you have access to The Big Government Passport Database.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  78. Yes, that's the point by billstewart · · Score: 1

    One of the main points of mandating RFIDs in things is to help out the Bush Administration's friends in the business, but another major point is to get people to start carrying around RFIDs to be more trackable. So yes, lying about how far they can *really* be read is part of the point.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  79. Tin foil hat for your wallet by ziegast · · Score: 1

    Get step-by-step instructions for contructing such a wallet as well as background information about RFID in consumer objects.

    I'd love to be able to buy one at thinkgeek.com (they already sell a duct tape wallet).

  80. Re:Talk about marking yourself with a bullseye ... by SmoothTom · · Score: 1

    Yup!

    Even in 'safer' environments where IEDs are not as likely, the value of legit US papers might make it worthwhile for 'black hats' to quickly sort out who is carrying what, so that those actually carrying a passport, or other RFID'd papers, can be tagged for special attention...

    Now that even a common MasterCard advertises its presence, and almost waves a "steal me, I'm right here!!!" flag, well shielded wallets and purses are almost a necessity.

    The future is here, and as usual it arrived sooner than we expected and in the wrong order...

    --
    Tomas

  81. No - you just kidnap... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just kidnap the tourist with the maple leaf emblem. No real Canadians wear these in case they're mistaken for Americans....

  82. Shrug. Not like you haven't been warned. by edward.virtually@pob · · Score: 1

    If you use RFID, your data is as good as public domain. Another tech designed with no (serious) thought to security. The only thing that's going to be more pathetic/amusing (depending on your alignment) are the new pin-less "proximity" credit/debit cards. Won't be very long before a clever criminal makes a fortune by walking around the mall with a small black box emptying the accounts of every luser with one. Unless you want to be one of them, just say no to this moronic idea. Still can't believe it made it off the drawing board.

  83. Bad things.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's consider the following that could happen with RFID in a passport, or DL, or ID, or body part, or whatever...

    * Travel records are generated and kept in a database on behalf of some entity. Someone working for said entity is coerced into forking over the data on a particular person, or someone who owns a particular item. Then when that person is out, the crook goes in and gets what they want. Or they know precisely where the person will be to commit some bodily harm to the person...

    * Wife thinks husband is cheating on her. Wifey hires a lawyer. Lawyer subpoena's all records relating to husband. Discovers that he's at a food store half way across town buying condoms and beer on saturday. Interestingly enough, the suspected girlfriend is at the same store buying ky jelly and wine at the same time... (oh, did I mention that this happens with those grocery store discount cards already?)

    * Someone is looking to track someome. So they determine what the RFID number of their vehicle's tires are... Sensors in the road keep track of where this person is going from and to... Even better, once that information is trended out and the someone has a good idea of where the target is going to be, they set up a device to 'handle' the situation for them...

    * Person A travels from point B to Point C in less time than they could legally do so if they were going the posted speed limit. It's enough out of whack that the road management entity sends a ticket to the owner of the vehicle... And what's out of whack "dials in" until you have to be dead on with the speed or you get a ticket... Too fast? Ticket. Too slow? You're impeding the flow of traffic = ticket.

    * RFID proves that you buy certain kinds of beer each weekend. You slip and fall in a store. Store subpoenas the records and "proves" that you could have been drunk, and that's why you slipped...

    * RFID records are correlated and it's discovered that you prefer a certain brand of toothpaste. As you walk past the other brands, they lower their price to become more attractive to you. As you approach your brand, the system realizes that you haven't bought the toothpaste for a while and you're probably out and need it now - so it raises the price.

    * RFID records of what you passed by in a store, what you stopped and looked at in a store, and what you bought in a store are all correlated and sold to marketers of goods of things that you bought and didn't buy. Junk mail, phone calls, etc. are all a never-ending deluge... Even better, insurers notice that you're buying a lot of OTC items for colds, suspect that you're a Meth cooker and report you to the cops, or screw with your insurance because you have a cold every year, or

    * You travel to Country X. Country X and the US are on good terms when you leave and arrive. While you're there, a cou-de-ta (sp?) occurs... The new regime decides that the US is the Evil Empire and rounds up all the US Citizens and kills them, or takes them hostage, or

    * You're walking down the street, minding your own business. Your watch, shoes, wallet, and clothes all have RFID tags in them. A crook who has a friend working in the manufacturing industries has a reader programmed with the prefix codes of what the various tags are linked to... A reader set up down the block tells him when someone with the 'good stuff' is walking by... They then target you for a criminal act. ... or better yet - crook drives down the block in his car, and scans the HOUSE to see what you have inside... Correlate the home address with the owner and determine when the owner is out of the house and rob it. Or determine that the owner doesn't have any firearms and go rob it now...

    * You're going to pick up your child at daycare and have a DVD in your car... Barely Legal Bimbos Gone Wild!!!! Scanner picks up, and nosey daycare worker feels that "barely legal" means you're pretty much a pedophile and calls the cops... Cops pull up at your house and determine you have an

  84. Simple Solution - Put foil in the Passport cover by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    simple solution guys - add a foil layer to the passport cover inside - when its closed it can't be read - when its open it can transmit to the sensor!

  85. No by wsanders · · Score: 1

    No, that was Brian Doyle, Deputy Press Secretary.

    And the DHS doesn't have a "Directory", it has a Secretary, Michael Chertoff.

    Don't know why you'd belittle them, first disaster that wipes out your ass, I'll bet your standing in line bitching about not getting any free cheese from the gov't just like everyone else.

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
    1. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup. If the gov'ment is gonna give away shit to everyone else, they damn well better give shit to me, too!!

    2. Re:No by sgant · · Score: 1

      Don't know why you'd belittle them, first disaster that wipes out your ass, I'll bet your standing in line bitching about not getting any free cheese from the gov't just like everyone else.

      Yeah, like those crybaby Katrina victims.

      --

      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
  86. In the future by I+Like+Pudding · · Score: 1

    We will all have satellite dishes sticking out of our ass like Cartman.

  87. Ok, free money by obeythefist · · Score: 1

    For the first person to patent a small, sturdy, wallet sized faraday cage that you can use to carry your ID cards around in so they don't get "chatty". You could put a clasp and hinges on it to open it upon request.

    Or are they going to make it illegal for you to be selective about who gets to spy on your personal details?

    --
    I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
  88. temporary solution by john_uy · · Score: 1

    i guess you should wrap in emi shielding bag around the rfid to prevent unwanted readings. i read before of products available (like wallets) that are insulated to prevent just this from happening. maybe this is a practical solution to take at the moment.

    --
    Live your life each day as if it was your last.
  89. RFID tags in Australian passports by zobier · · Score: 1

    My wife recently renewed her Australian passport and the new one came with an RFID tag in it. What's more, they charged extra for the privilege :(.

    --
    Me lost me cookie at the disco.
  90. How do we kill the chip??? by cusco · · Score: 1

    I don't want to block it, I want to destroy it. I read once in someone's blog that you could zap it in the microwave for 10 seconds, but don't know if it's true or not. Does anyone else here? So I take 90 seconds to get past the Border Patrol instead of 45. Big freaking deal.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    1. Re:How do we kill the chip??? by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 1

      I'd say if the chip doesn't work they'd suspect you of forging it. After a year they'll have heard the microwave excuse so much that they'll stop checking for forgeries and forgers will be able to get away with having ID cards with broken RFID.

      So microwave away, just remember you might end up zapping your microwave along with the chip.

    2. Re:How do we kill the chip??? by autOmato · · Score: 1

      Try this: RFID-Zapper
      It uses the capacitor of a disposable camera (that normally powers the flash) to generate a strong electro-magnetic field to destroy the RFID-chip.

  91. I get it by LandruBek · · Score: 1

    Pretty good (for a pun). For the non-HAMs, look here.
     
    Fun fact: the Yagi-Uda antenna was more the work of Uda, but since Yagi did the English translation of the paper, he ended up with the bulk of the fame. Ah life.

    --
    $META_SIG_JOKE
  92. Privacy Threat by WeeBit · · Score: 1

    Those tags will take ALL of our privacy away. There will be no way for anyone to hide when those tags come out. Soon they will be selling those identifier's online to anyone who wants them. A major prize for paparazzi, and hoodlums alike. In the past the elite, and the famous could put a wig and sunglasses on and hit the streets. Those days will soon be over. Another thing to think about is the security of people that are hiding from abusive relationships, Undercover Personel, etc.

  93. RFID Passport Thieves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And what about thieves looking thru your room/house/car for that "hidden" passport you have tucked away?

  94. And Visa Versa by giafly · · Score: 1

    I bet the Pentagon has a use for mines that won't blow up until all Americans have left the scene.

    --
    Reduce, reuse, cycle
  95. back to square one by White+Yeti · · Score: 1

    At that point, why not just use a barcode or magnetic strip, like current documents? It ends up the same as a shielded RFID tag: official/clerk must open document and pass over scanner. Sure, that may require connection to a central database, but the main drawback is that there are no high-tech taggy thingies!

    1. Re:back to square one by Em+Ellel · · Score: 1

      At that point, why not just use a barcode or magnetic strip, like current documents? It ends up the same as a shielded RFID tag: official/clerk must open document and pass over scanner. Sure, that may require connection to a central database, but the main drawback is that there are no high-tech taggy thingies!

      Actually not exactly, the RFID tag still work at a distance as long as the person carying it opens it. I.e. you can scan a busload of people in a sec if they each open their ids without going to each one. Also, and this was a point in the article, apparently people leaning out of cars and dropping documents is a significant issue for border checkpoints - this way you can open the docs in the car without giving them to the person working the border checkpoint. On the other hand, shielded rfid goes against the fundamental definition of this project which requires ability to scan with no action on part of the subject.

      --
      RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
  96. RFID can be blocked by billcopc · · Score: 1

    The disadvantages of being RFID tagged are easily subverted with a small piece of aluminum foil. I've said it before, and I'll say it 'til the end of time: no matter what the government/RIAA/MPAA/Oprah tries to pull, if it's in my hands it's going to get hacked!

    HDCP will be cracked, HD-DVD will be cracked, RFID is easily jammed, for everything else there's sledgehammers.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  97. Faraday Cage Wallet Almost Ready by TooLazyToLogon · · Score: 1

    Not to worry. My Faraday Cage Wallets are almost ready for production. Quantum encryption to be available with version 2.0.