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Lego to Open Mindstorms NXT Firmware
ajdlinux writes "LEGO has officially announced that the firmware for the Mindstorms NXT will be open source. They will be releasing several developer kits and the firmware source during August, the kits containing the NXT driver specs, the schematics for the hardware connection and the Bluetooth protocol used by the NXT. The NXT will be only US$250, which is only slightly more expensive than the Mindstorms RIS2 kit. I certainly can't wait. " We had covered the earlier announcement of this kit.
The link is incorrect.
c e%20Announcement.aspx
You have trimmed the spaces from the name.
correct one is: http://mindstorms.lego.com/press/2057/Open%20Sour
liquidcoooled
liqbase
Is robotics such a tiny market that only Legoi is in here? What about mechano ? Or similar type companies .. i guess because the mindstorms wasn't super successful we have this lack of players in the amateur robotics market.
Getting to play with all of these these new fangled toys at such a young age... robotic lego sets, the internet, cell phones, instant messaging... boy am I feeling old... and yet I'm only 25!
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
By default, would I be able to control the sucker from my cellphone? Or is that something they have to specifically program into the control software?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I can see no mention of the actual license in the press release (or anywhere on the mindstorm site for that matter).
Lego saying its Open Source is all well & good, but that means nothing. It may not be an OSI approved license - but even if it is, the differences between BSD - style "open source" licenses and gpl style "open source" licenses is huge.
Anyone know what the license actually is?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Just look at that robot on that homepage. Imagine all the things that it can do. Why, if Lego scaled up all its parts, I bet it could take on ASIMO easily.
But seriously, if more work were put into developing things like this - toys such that everyday people with some ingenuity and some creativity could program their own robots, I believe that we would have a lot more ideas as far as where to take robots.
Right now, major robotic undertakings seem to be limited to those with the research capital and funding to make them happen. If this were the thing that was researched, I would think that we would be seeing a lot more cool stuff developed as a result.
Especially with the release of the firmware as open source. Lego is just inviting people of all capabilities to work with it.
Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
Ok, who'll be the first to construct a Lego Beowulf? And I'm sure NTX overclockers have already started!
For all those software parents who were left in anguish by the mechanical engineer parents: your time has come! The next season of Lego League competition promises your children (and you) boundless opportunities for the super-hacked LegoBot.... Kudos to Lego for going open source on this.
All these years wondering where those robot armies to enslave the human race will come from, and now we know they started as a bunch of LEGO models.
Does Nintendos new controller use bluetooth. Imagine getting that to work to controll your robot.
I think I'm going to have to get one of these soon. I haven't seen any of these nifty Lego toys for adults in any shops in Sweden (for instance) but there are many shops in Europe you can order from online.
:This session reports on continuing work on developing Java(TM) technology for use in university-level robotics. It focuses on the issue of creating cost-effective and easily programmed intelligent robot swarms (n>10). Interesting swarms are composed of heterogeneous robots, but this quickly complicates programming. The presenters previously simplified the heterogeneous programming problem by using I/O tagging and reported on this at the 2005 JavaOneSM conference, in TS-1464. This presentation describes how they have successfully created a swarm of heterogeneous robots, based on Lego mechanical components, sharing a common code base, with a variety of non-Lego sensors.
If you are heading for Java One this year, there is this interesting seminar:
BOF-0503: Java(TM) Technology in an Intelligent Swarm of Heterogeneous Lego Robots
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
Hardware AND an OS makes a platform.
For what OS will the development tools be availlable on the PC?
They're either trying to win over the geek population or maybe hope their LEGO models will help the progress of human kind.
I vote for the former, in which case I suspect the next in line will be the sex slave LEGO-bots.
But does it run linux?
They probably haven't decided. Here's a likely senario.
You can already program these toys with the free editions of the Visual Studio software.4 .html
:-(
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS412745533
Why, oh why didn't we get to have toys like these in out childhood.
So how long is it gonna take until someone gets linux running on one of these babies when they drop out...
Or does the "Head" of the NXT remind others of Johnny 5 from Short Circuit?
In any event, this sort of toy just makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Nothing like some Legos and a microcontroller to make the electrical engineer in me happy.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
Actually, this was Lego's plan all along. They obtained the help of the most crazed Mindstorms hobbyists to help them design the product line. This wired article is probably the best one that involved the process behind creating the line.
http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,69946-0.html
Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
Forth for Mindstorms was created by Ralph Hempel, one of the select few superusers invited by Lego to participate in the NXT design.
Robot AI Mind.Forth specifically lists the Lego NXT as a candidate platform for installation of the robot AI Mind.
Standards in Artificial Intelligence officially lists the Lego NXT as an accepted standard platform in view of robot AI.
No, you weren't faced with that question. You had no legal, ethical, or moral basis (emphasis on "legal") to "disallow" people from doing whatever they wanted to their own piece of hardware.
What, exactly, is so difficult to grasp about this situation? I'm glad that sane people prevailed, as the programming tools that came with the original brick were a bit lame and the open source stuff that grew up around it rocked. But it should be self-evident that getting a community to write your code is cheaper and results in better code in the end.
Do you have ESP?
Support the CPL, for maximum incompatibility.
Karma: It's all a bunch of tree-huggin' hippy crap!
It's a good thing they are opening the firmware, because one thing about LEGO NXT that bothered me was the incorporation of Labview as the programming interface.
It's bad enough that Labview turns electrical engineers into flesh-eating zombies...now they are unleashing it on children!
At least, by opening the firmware and driver details, there should be C-like or BASIC-like alternatives appearing relatively quickly.
"LEGO has officially announced that the firmware for the Mindstorms NXT will be open source."
So, a Lego Vista release is now out of the question? : p
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
Labview for artificial intelligence is based on the Lego Mindstorms connection.
Standards in Artificial Intelligence treat Labview as just as good for AI as any other language.
The Singularity Timeline counts on AI development in Labview, LISP, Prolog, Java and all other programming languages.
I, for one, welcome our easily assembled, reprogrammable overlords...
Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
I vote for the former, in which case I suspect the next in line will be the sex slave LEGO-bots.
Ouch. Then again, they do make every other kind of special purpose piece...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
No they could have tried to lock down the controller and make it harder to modify. They could have gone after small companies that where selling improved sensors . They could have done lots of things to keep control.
Yes they made the smart choice. However they still had a choice to make. You should praise them for choosing correctly instead of whinning that they didn't see it as a "no brainer".
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Cheap, remotely controllable, and now programmable in real languages. Could these be used for cheap research into AI navigation?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
I was lucky enough to be allowed to participate in the MDP. (Mindstorms Developer Program) It was my first experience with LEGO robotics, actuall, ANY robotics. I have done lots of programming, but never robotics. Some of the more senior members of the group suggested buildin a 'line follower' bot. This was my first AI project and was allot of fun because the goal was speed within a very defined task. It was VERY interesting to start to think about giving the NXT some autonomous intellegence to navigate the course. This kit has it's bases covered. AI, communication, hacking, building, destroying, etc.
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
>i guess because the mindstorms wasn't super successful we have this lack of players
>in the amateur robotics market.
Your kidding right? Mindstorms !IS! SUPER successful! It was so successfull that it created a hacking community that also was so successful that LEGO involved them in the development of updates, as well as this NXT kit. To give the OP some credit, I too had no idea of the success of this kit until I got involved. I hadn't heard about FLL. I didn't know that there are 2 versions of the NXT kit. One for retail, the other for education. I was blown away by all the brainpower LEGO involved from the community to help with this project. From educators, to engineers and everyone in between. There are 3rd party projects that mix this. I believe the success of this kit was inevitable, regarless of the communities participation. Then to embrace the hacker community as well as professional (educators, FLL clubs, competitions, etc.) just made it happen even sooner. There have been development projects to enable the use of other parts and robitic kits. There have been developments for using 3rd party robotic sensors and motors. I for one worship my new robotic overlords!
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
When i was younger I grew up programming my Sinclair ZX81 and playing with Lego Technic. This sort of stuff set me on the path to a degree in EEE at university and now a job as an Electronics Engineer.
What do kids have today, the XBox 360 and Playstation, where are the engineers of the future going to come from? But wait there's hope, thank you Lego, thank you for still having the guts to create a great educational 'toy'* that will not only entertain the masses but also teach them as well.
* a 'toy' I might add, that I will be buying for me... a 25 year old big kid.
This is the same Lego that tries to abuse the trademark system for profit, right?
Oh, but it's a shiney new toy, sorry, I forgot.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I've seen I don't know how many USB ports get broken, the plastic bit that guides the connector breaking off, simply by repetitive plugging and unplugging of the connector from the port on the computer. USB drives, digital cameras, and other devices that are generally intended for being plugged in only temporarily... all of them break the port you plug them into eventually. I've seen it happen with many different USB ports on different computers too, so I don't think it's the manufacturer. It seems to me that the port is simply not designed for frequent hardware changes, which of course would happen with this sort of device. (Not to mention that in general it would be handled by kids, which I'm thinking makes it only that much more likely things will break).
For devices who are frequently connecting and disconnecting, wireless is the only way to go. It's a pity that LEGO didn't realize this.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The Bluetooth functionality of the NXT I think falls under wireless connectivity, doesn't it?
As a MDP'er, who didn't play with the previous IR RCX version, I can only tell you that the other MDP'ers who have, have said the BT in the NXT by comparison is a dream. From first hand experience, I only use the BT because your right, I'd hate to actually use a cable. The NXT connects with anything BT that I have. Laptop, phone, PDA, etc. There has also been development of java BT remote control for cell phones. I mean, come on! You can take the box home from the store. Spend 1/2 hour building, installing software, and programming, and have a moving robot working without ever plugging in a cord. The BT stack currently is limited to widcomm and M$, but the list of adapters for those stacks is huge and growing. I already had the cheapest Kensinton I could find for my laptop to talk with my phone, and it just worked with the NXT (which is the norm).
No worries mate!
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
If they included a USB connected bluetooth transmitter/receiver with the unit, it would probably be much better. But I don't think that's part of the package. Out of the box, unless you already have bluetooth, you are going to be plugging and unplugging this thing a lot. And as I said, USB really sucks for hardware that is frequently plugged in and unplugged at will because the port connectors break.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
there actualy is a c like alternative for the OLD mindstorms system called NQC or not quite c. It is very simiar to C with specific commands developed specificly for the mindstorms system. http://bricxcc.sourceforge.net/nqc/ is the homepage and http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1590590635/103-49 88931-3277469?v=glance&n=283155 is a great guide book written by the creator of the language that comes with all the software and a couple of different compilers.
"and thats all i have to say about THAT" -2 the ranting gryphon
Yes, as far as I know, LEGO is NOT planning on including a BT adapter with the kit. However, at an average price of $25, and a list of hundreds of compatible adapters per regeion, it don't see that as an issue.
As far as programming goes, I don't think the NXT has enough resouces itself to use the NXT as a programming environment. There is a program that comes on it that lets you create simple little test type programs, (more a list of simple commands) without even needing a PC. When you want to use more robust software to create programs for the NXT (C-based, Official LabView based, Java, etc.) You are going to have to use a PC. All the programming I've done with it has been via Bluetooth. LEGO has made it possible to program (compile) software for the NXT without it being connected to anything. You could use whatever you want to swap out programs on it. It communicates using the Bluetooth Serial Port. You can control it command by command if you wanted, or transfer files (programs) to and from it. The USB cable IS required to flash the firmware, but aside from that, everything can be done via bluetooth and it works well. Personally, I believe someone will write a replacement firmware that may enable a more powerfull stand alone program to be run on the next allowing more functional programs to be created, again without even connecting to a PC once the firmware was updated. Theoretically, you could use a NXT to deliver a program to another NXT. Sky's the limit with this thing.
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
As long as we're completely speculating, I'd say 50/50. Who knows, since it hasn't been released yet, they may offer a version with said adapter....
The important thing here is that you can. How many people that are planning on using Bluetooth with this, won't already have an adaptor? Personally, I'd like to see a LEGO branded adapter on the shelf right next to the kit, so when customers read the kits included/needed list, and determine they want/need one, that it will be right there in front of them ready to jump in their cart.
Your concerns have been addressed. LEGO has been working diligently with the beta testers to eek out weaknesses. All of us have been quite suprised at the level of quality even in the beta hardware. If you've been looking for a toy (tool) without the shortcommings you have obviously run into in the past, I think this is the one.
On a side note, as with all lego products, the cables included with the kit are VERY robust. I haven't personally heard of any beta tester having any problems at all with the USB cable that comes with the kit. LEGO specifically challenged us to 'wear the thing out' if we could (entire kit). And believe me, we've been trying! hehehehe
This thing is ROCK SOLID!
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
>Then I find out about things like FLL and most recently this whick looks like allot of fun.
cool eh?
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
It's these folks that are going to have the problem. Even if the NXT itself holds up, the USB ports on the computer will eventually break from the frequent plugging in and unplugging. I've seen it happen with several other USB devices in the past, it's certain to happen with this one too.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
sheesh
>Then I find out about things like FLL and most recently this whick looks like allot of fun.
http://www.teamhassenplug.org/GBC/
I guess you can't enclose in bracket's when using plain text. And it helps to actually 'preview' ones own post. Sorry about the !#@$ .
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
>Even if the NXT itself holds up, the USB ports on the computer will eventually break
>from the frequent plugging in and unplugging. I've seen it happen with several other
>USB devices in the past, it's certain to happen with this one too.
Thank god for Bluetooth!
hehe
B-)
A friend will come and bail you out of jail, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "damn that was fun!"
I played with the NXT robots at the Maker Fair in San Mateo recently and it is awesome. Then I looked at my current MindStorms robots and they looked prehistoric, like a pile of dirty legos you'd find at a relative's house that still had the enormous pre-minifig figures with it.
Dude, I think I can see my house from here.