Slashdot Mirror
Real Life Cash Card Launched To Access Your Virtual Money
Izeickl writes "The BBC is reporting that "A real world cash card that allows gamers to spend money earned in a virtual universe has been launched. Gamers can use the card at cash machines around the world to convert virtual dollars into real currency. The card is offered by the developers of Project Entropia, an online role-playing game that has a real world cash economy.""
From TFA (emphasis mine): Well, prepare yourself for the next level after that...taxation of virtual currency.
Here's an excerpt of the first comment on the above referenced story (again, emphasis mine): That sure was quick.
Of course, if this comes to pass, it should also work both ways...e.g. I can write off my Second Life costs as 'business expenses'. IANACPA, but I'm sure other, more fiscally talented individuals could take this idea and run with it.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
I think this answers this question [slashdot.org]. When virtual money is real money, it becomes taxable...
Read my blog posts on usability.
This is...just...horrible... The fact people would waste real money to go to a "virtual club" to waste time in a game that could be spent doing stuff like hunting animals for real money (another enjoyable experience of the game) is just...sad...
Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
At last, software that really wears out.
Bubble.
I find it amusing that sometimes last year I argued that virtual assets were still assets and the guy who refused to accept that virtual assets were anything at all said "as soon as I can buy my groceries with virtual assets, I will believe you."
Time to start that grocery trip, it appears.
Sig under construction since 1998.
How would MindArk go about doing this? Would they need to ride the Visa or Mastercard network? I have seen co-branded Visa or Mastercard cards, but not something like this.
So let me get this right, real money and game money are interchangeable.
So you knock up your virtual girl friend, she gets pregnant and has a kid, costing you $25,000 real dollars for a virtual hospital, virtual delivery room, and virtual doctors. Then they slowly drain your bank with virtual housing, virtual food, virtual birth days, virtual college, etc. Pretty soon you are broke, mowing your virtual lawn, around your virtual house and listening to the virtual wife bi*ch at you about what a looser you are. All the time sitting in your real apartment with no money because it virtually vanished right before your eyes.
What's the point in creating a virtual world and the trying to make it into reality? I thought the whole point of a virtual world was escapism. Online game Second Life already has developed a notary for verifying contracts, and that means that it won't be too long before virtual lawyers rear their ugly heads. Why bother escaping to world that has all the bad parts of reality?
What's next, getting virtual parking tickets or stepping in virtual dog poo? People are sucking the fun out of virtual environments (and I don't mean that in the virtual whore kind of way).
Transistors and Beer!!
1000 years from now. A customer inquires of a merchant:
Customer: Do you take visa?
Merchant: Visa hasn't existed for 900 years.
Customer: Do you take American Express?
Merchant: American Express hasn't existed for 750 years.
Customer: Do you take Entropia?
Merchant: We don't take Entropia.
I know very little about this subject. However, I was under the impression that only the US Federal Reserve had the authority and responsibility to coin (or print) money. How is it they can do this?
It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
where did he get $100,000?
can you imagine the look on the loan officers face when you tell her you want to borrow 100 grad to buy a virtual space station in a computer game to turn it into a night club?
Pretty simply, you spend your money on silly useless things all the time! Games for example? How the hell could you spend your money on video games?
Anyways the point of the economy is to produce goods and to consume them. The point of becoming wealthy is to dabble in useless things. The point of becoming a rich country is so that everyone can then dabble in those useless things. It's all useless!
But things are being produced and consumed in this online world so the economy gets stronger and more people have more useless things!
Just like this useless post!
Saying hypothetically that some people played enough (and I'm sure a lot that would are out there), would it be possible to earn an actual *living* from playing games?
There are the pro-gamers out there that are already earning small fortunes, but this would be a kind of trading if I understood the article correctly...
We already have fantasy worlds where one plays games for funny money and cashes it in for real money-- it's called a casino! And most of the women are actually female! And attractive!
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
How can people spend money on multiple pcs? Or getting the newest video card every 6 months. Or buying the latest fashion item, wearing it 3 times then repeating the process. How about buying 20 different jewel-encrusted watches?
While I understand what you're getting at the fact remains that people will spend their money as they see fit regardless of what you or I believe might be a better way. Put another way: People will do what they do because that's what people do.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I bet it doesn't take a day before the first virtual hooker offers his (yes, HIS. NO matter what sex the avatar has) service.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Entropia: Licensed software that's a license to print money.
Oh You POS
Your looks != your avatar's looks
Also, your sex... you get the idea.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You say it is a pest. Well I am sure that real world snipers find it a pest that they got to account for wind, distance, differences in elevation etc etc. Yet do we prefer a game that attempts to simulate these OR do we prefer games were the bullet arrives instantly at the target in a straight line?
The anwer? Depends on the game.
Offcourse the bullet still ain't real and neither are the consequences. Were as spending real cash on speculation in a game can have some real consequences.
Frankly I think this is just a development of the gold farmers. Why lets a 3rd party earn all the money when the developer himself can get it instead.
Time is money. If I am not willing to spend the time in game to earn the virtual cash I can just spend real cash to aquire it instead.
The idea is not revolutionary. What do you think game guides are? Apperently there is a big enough market to actually print books that costs as much as the game to tell you how to safe time. Again, your cash to save your time.
You could ask yourselve why people spend time playing a game where aquiring money is as much as chore as real work but then you could ask that about a lot of peoples hobbies.
Hell billions of people go on holidays to live in conditions they would not tolerate at home. And pay for it!
People are weird and do weird stuff.
What really is the difference between paying for a game to grind gold coins vs grinding in the real world to get cash to buy gold coins vs saving up all year to go sit in a hotel room the size of your bathroom and be surrounded by people speaking foreign when at home you spend all your time trying to get the foreigners out?
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Er, forgive my leap to conclusions here, but isn't this basically gambling?
"Yeah, I converted my cash into this 'virtual money' they call 'chips'. It's fabulous, this place called a 'casino' has its own virtual economy! I can go to different parts and perform 'business transactions' that can make me virtual money (or lose virtual money, of course). Then, I can convert my virtual money back into real money! It's amazing!"
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
WOW! People are in debt enough without having to worry about virtual debt.
Just think about it, the dot com bubble burst because of companies with over valued stock failed to ever produce a real profit. A lot of people lost jobs and a lot of money - but the stock market, at least in the USA, has an aura of risk around it. Most people who play the stock market know the risks (granted, not all).
In this however, I can see total idiots losing everything they own - kind of like how people spend life savings on the lottery, but much worse.
It's interesting though that every single bit of value on this is based on virtual perception. How much do you want that plot of digital land to build a house on? Unlike real land, the only people who might see that as valuable are others in the same virtual environment which in the end limits the value. One person may see it as $50,000 worth of digital real estate while someone else would look at you like you were crazy if you told them "I'll sell you some land in a game for $0.25"
Pretty easily.
Yay, I have a sig.
This is my trick to making it seem like I have a lot of money. Let everyone else think they need 60 Inch TVs, $2000 computers, and $50,000 cars, and I'll just sit back and realize that I can live without such luxuries. Of course, I'm actually making the same amount as the other people who think they need all this stuff. So, while they're running around wondering where all their money went, trying to pay the credit card bills, I'm enjoying life and am quite comfortable with the money I make.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
well. At least it removes the Middleman for the Gold farmers.
That is, if you can even farm in this game...
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Forget taxes, be more concerned about gambling laws.
I tried out Project Entropia. When I managed to hunt a few critters I found the same kill-and-loot system that I knew from just about every other MMOG. Except the loot was convertable to real money with payouts controlled by the PE developers. How is that not online gambling?
Never approach a vast undertaking with a half-vast plan.
They change in value over time.
So if you have the "uber rare sword +5" which is worth $20,000, then could the government charge you property tax? Then can you take a loss if the game closes (and as a result the item becomes worthless)?
Part of the reason these items can take these values is because taxes are not included in the transactions. Add back in taxes and the prices will drop.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
But you have no 60inch TV, no $2000 computer, no 200mph car...
And then you die, gone, finished, never to come back.
On the other hand, at least in the US, only the government can create legal tender currency out of nothing. (Or so I bvelieve, and IANAL.) Casinos have to fill in the right forms / get friendly with the right lawmakers or mobsters / jump through a zillion hoops in order to be able to maintain their trade. Arcades and other places that sell "chips" or "tokens" of any kind have to go out of their way to label everything as "for entertainment purposes only" and "no cash value." Giving away a cheap prize in exchange for Skee-Ball points is okay, paying cash is not.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
Bingo. I feel the same way. I don't need all those things. I just need enough to make me comfortable. I go for the 'Quality over Quantity' motto.
I went mortgage shopping two weeks ago and in talking to one of the loan officers I met with I told her how after I put the 20% down on the house I would be doing the 1/12 extra payment per month to speed up paying off my loan. I told her I hate debt. She remarked I probably had no credit card debt and paid it off every month to which I replied, "I think I have $70 on it right now."
She chuckled and said she wished she had that kind of discipline.
I've always hated owing people money and have always paid off my loans early or put off buying large items until I had the cash to cover it. Going into debt up to ones eyeballs has never made sense to me. But I guess people are taking cues from the way the country is run.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I'm on track to retire at 45. So why don't you put that in your $5000 TV and smoke it.
... like a typical pyramidal scheme, and I have seen a couple being from west Balkans.
Hostile eh?
;-) Nah just pulling your leg
And yes thats nice that you can retire at 45 with no 200mph car, no $2000 computer, and especially no 60 inch TV.
Seriously though, do whatever the hell you want that makes you happy, no one's forcing you to buy any of those things. If you value retiring at 45 more then owning a bunch of useless junk, then good for you!
Ouch... That's reality for ya... I subscribe to the parrents philosophy, in that I don't spend my money on stuff that seems stupid to me. I don't have fancy cars, big TV's, fast women, etc... It's just me, my 1500 sqft house, my 2 paid for (old) cars, and about $500 in rolling debt on my CC for groceries and such each month. (Read: I'm single with no life and addicted to WoW...)
And I was all happy that others exitsted that believed like I did, until you pointed out how senseless it is to save and be the diligent little ant... I Guess I'm going out tonight. Woohaw...
-Duff
For Project entropia Item duplication : :)
Project-entropia is a very glitchy game, there are many ways to Glitch in this game, simply editing the registry.
1. go to start, run and type in regedit
2. press ctrl+f and find somthing called pema.reg
3. Open and log on into Project-Entropia.
4. get any item and go to a trade terminal and put it in like you are going to sell it.
5.Minimize project-entropia and and edit pema.reg and change the Vaule code to 82.617.
6. close Project entropia and log on again. there should be two copys of the item in your Inventory. Good luck and have a good time getting rich
Will a new set of laws need to be created to cover hacking online currency? It's kind of a grey area -- what is the economic impact of diluting virtual currency that has an exchange rate in the real world? Doesn't seem like it'd fit into the 'normal' counterfeiting mold.
The Right Reverend K. Reid Wightman,
Easily relevant sections of the US Constitution and amendments:
AFAIK, Congress hasn't passed a law requiring the use of US currency for interstate commerce, but there are laws about the use of gambling tokens. Certainly a State couldn't make an MMORPG with money; however, since almost all companies are incorporated under state law, that might make the basis for problems. (Non-US companies may be in a different boat, such as Blizzard?) And I suppose that one could make the case since that the power to "coin" money on being prohibited to the states is reserved to the people (although I've never understood the wording or working of Amendment X; IAmNotALawyer).Of course, since Congress can regulate the value of "foreign" currencies, that would imply that Congress could pass laws defining how MMORPG currencies could be converted for tax purposes.... hopefully as "of zero value". But given the average congresscritter, I doubt anything so sensible would happen, and have no intention of pointing this out to any elected official until the IRS has already done something stupid.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
Now we just see some honesty. Playing WoW 24/7 is a pointless waste of time, and the more people you have that agree on a particular waste of time as meaningful, the more currency. Currency = current interest of society. Why not have real compensation for people frittering away hours on an entertaining diversion? I've seen the same thing every day for years in the workplace.
If you are a working chap like myself, head down to a mall some day during business hours and just sit and watch for a couple hours and marvel at the efficiency with which we line consumerbot pockets. Some fellow is sitting at his 9-5 job watching the clock tic-toc while 1 to 5 other people are out mindlessly pouring the earnings back into the feedback loop.
And around and around it goes.
Having been the 9-5 tic-toc guy (post-college), one of his consumerbots (pre and during college), and a mindless gamer (all along), I can say, they're all the same hat. Without legislation, an unregulated virtual economy will ultimately find balance with the real economies because it is always a balance of time for money. If you have a working bloke that would invest 36 hours to get Cruel Hammer of +Infinity^2 Ass Kicking--and he can do that because the real economy lined his pocket with enough money that he can piss away 36 leisure hours on a collection of bits off in the ether--and there's no obstacle to him instead spending 2 hours of his salary to get it, well he's not an idiot and he's probably and addict so it's just simple numbers. Lower cost and faster gratification = that hammer is worth real money because I'd spend real time to get it.
We spend money on things we want. If they are scarce (because of supply or because of the high cost in time to obtain) we pay more. The more addicted people are to virtual worlds, the closer in parity virtual goods will come to real goods. If you spend more than 50% of your time in a virtual world, it is your real world or it would be, if only you could pay your bills there.
Well someday you probably can. Some people do now.
Honestly, I think virtual worlds will set us free and give us the strongest dose of reality check we've ever experienced. After a while you notice that you are valuing utterly imaginary things above actual real things and then you start thinking, "Well, Jesus. What is the value of real things? Maybe the 'real' things in my life aren't even real. Maybe the real things I bought are just as hollow as so many bits on the ether. Maybe that's a problem that I should address."
Or maybe it won't turn out that way for most. My perspective: there's as much virtual crap at the local shopping mall as there is in the Flavor of the Year online game. It's all the same hat.
Nevermind the potential for GM/Corporate Fraud - Unlike 'real' world property, the virtual world property is under the jurisdiction of the company you're buying access from - how much do YOU trust the folks running WOW to play fair?
The only other solution is government regulations to virutal game rules and that should alternately make your head spin and cause you to retch.
Yuck.
In My Humble Opinion....I would guess that one's undocumented day laborers might not be able to get a bank account but they could get a Project Entropia account. The key to all this is that direct transfers between parties do not occur and instead go through the PED intermediary currency which obscures who is paying whom and is the cause of all the mischief.
Hey if that's what makes you happy, keep doing it.
No one is going to force you to do anything! Except well maybe the RIAA, they might force you to buy their music even if you don't want it...
Yeah, it does. And I have a raid tonight so screw going out. I never really considered the whole retirement at 45 thing either. I probably ought to look into that since I have alot of cash just sitting around not doing anything. *shrug*
:-) Better get it while the gettings good (Read: not taxed).
then again, Maybe my WoW assetts will allow me to retire @ 40.
-Duff
True
What happens if there is a dispute? Do you take it up with your bank? The gaming company? Does it go to court or arbitration? Game companies are not governments and should never be governments. Governments are not game companies and should never be game companies. (Ok, so the US Army games are pretty cool...but thats not really what I'm saying).
Stay away from WoW, that's all I have to say for you!!
My retirement plan is the "work until I die" plan. Basically I will be spending the second half of my life making up for the poor money decisions of the first half. One upside of this plan is I have no incentive to live terribly long, so I can eat whatever I want. In fact, it kind of encourages me to eat poorly so I don't live too long. If this plan doesn't work out, I will have to go to plan B, the "mooch off my kids until I die" plan.
I Am My Own Worst Enemy
I was looking for the quote from Vacation (1985) - Tom Hanks
but couldn't find it in the few seconds I have here during the day.
Basically
Time is Money... or maybe Money is Cocaine and Cocaine is Power so Time is Power... er... anyway...
Time is Money so if you earn $300 per hour, it saves you money to buy characters and items that would take a lot of time to acquire. You could work one hour, then spend 19 hours doing fun stuff in the game instead of doing 19 hours of mindless stuff to get the stupid item.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I was on that track til I developed medical issues at 45....Now I have to save an extra $50,000 minimum to kick off enough money to pay for the medications.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Well I was wondering what the next PR stunt from MindArk was going to be.
They seem to come up with about two per year.
If you're thinking about getting involved in this "Virtual Universe", you should know that there are many times more losers than winners. And to make a withdrawel to your bank account is a minimum of $10 US. And it can take up to 90 business days to happen. Not 90 days but 90 days that the banks are open.
Anyone interested should do a lot of research first.
Remember that arcade machine within Doom3? Yeah, I'm talking about Super Turbo Turkey Puncher. If you play it long enough, then you'll get game credits within the game of a game. And then when enough credits are collected within that game of a game, you need to buy an oxygen tank in the real world (Doom3) before this next feat: push the arcade machine on its side or put a grenade underneath it...BAMN! Now you have access to the Mars. Run down the cliff, to the right. You should find a small cave. You need to start the reactor before you run out of air. You may need to fight Howser, which I hear is now the Governor of the State of California, but you took the Red Pill! After the reactor starts, the physics of the real world will fade from your reality in the real world (Doom3) and Morpheus will try to induct you into his fake world called Super Turbo Turkey Puncher Land! Don't trust Morpheus, he's just a program/agent within the Matrix that tries to induct "failing crop" into an alternative reality within the Real World (Doom3) that only gives them the New World perspective of having been delivered from a fake reality and into a new one. Knowing Morpheus, he'll have you believe you're on a floating Citizenship to some dying world and you will forever be the Chef flipping Turkey-burgers that taste like Oatmeal. Do you realy want that? You've been warned! You took that Red Pill once already, now Take the Blue Pill within Morpheus' reality!
Sincerily,
Bob Trevend (on lunch break, at Console 3), Network Associates
That the Virtual World net assets will inevitably become more valuable than Real World (tm) assets?
That is actually my biggest fear. I hope I make it, I'm sorry you did not.
Games aren't always about escaping reality - in fact, they are often about experiencing some OTHER reality, which may very well have some very definite similarities to "our" reality. :)
Banks may be specifically excluded by law (I don't know; I'm taking your word for it), but there's no reason other organizations can't attempt to issue psuedo-currency.
It may or may not be a good idea. It may or may not catch on. Doesn't mean it can't be attempted.
Useless, useless, etc.
I think what this user means is this: So long as virtual games are distracting people from the problems in the real world, the Bush and Blair administrations are all for it.
- RG>
Hey pal, this isn't a pleasantforest, so don't waste my time with pleasantries!
Stay away from breads, potatoes and sugar.
But... I was a testicular cancer surviver so low Teste got me (and that's $200 a month). If you start getting night sweats, feeling anxious, thinking a bit fuzzy, etc. then you may have low Teste (It happens to normal guys too).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
> I'll just sit back and realize that I can live without such luxuries
I am also good at saving, and never buy any luxary item on credit.
In the old days, money was just a way to decrease the transaction cost. IE money has no value, other than what you can get with it.
so to not get too fixated on $$$ or items, I do remind myself saving money to buy something is smart. accumlating money just to accumlate money, and brag about net worth, is meaningles to me
I try to stop myself from "appraising" everything, such as that car is worth $50,000. I more like to think, when I have $10,000 I can then get my garage...
In some ways, every time a bank makes a loan, some money gets manufactured.
The bank is limited, in the US, by banking rules that say they can lend up to so many times the amount they hold in deposits. I image similar rules apply in every country.
When they make a loan, they write you a check or increase the balance in your account or wire money somewhere. To do that they either transfer money they control in someone else's account or they borrow from the Federal Reserve system or some other financial entity.
If it doesn't get hidden by the time it takes to transfer the money all over the country, it becomes a credit that isn't balanced by cash but by the knowledge that the Fed is good for it.
The end result is that there is more money in circulation than there was before you borrowed the money. You can write a check for your new car or house or business purchase and the money just moves around in the system. It only disappears as you take your income and reduce the loan and then only as the total of all loans from any particular "bank" exceeds their deposits.
If you look in the Wall Street Journal you can see the amount of such money but I forget what it is called.
I'll just 'hire' a couple of 'assistants'...
Nope I don't mean that at all. This is simply what the whole economy is about.
Who needs diamonds? no one, but theres a HUGE market for them.. Art? Music? Games? Spiffy Clothing? Same thing, all useless junk that no one really NEEDS.
Now I'm not arguing that we should give up all these items and live with only what we need, no way! I'm simply stating that the economy is driven by these useless things that are produced by people. If it is a scarce good, then it will have a value. Those items in that virtual world are scarce goods.
As much as people like to chastise the government's of the first world for doing what the Romans did ie creating a circus to entertain the people, nada the situation different. Your simplistic comparisons are invalid and fall on their face.
PS: What are the problems of the real world?
World Hunger? Nada we can feed everyone on this planet
Overpopulation? Nada, the human population in first world countries is barely breaking even.
Oil Crisis? Who needs oil????
Global Warming? So what the human speciecs won't die out because of global warming.
This is no different than a gift card, only the currency is generated somehow online.
Now, if there's ever a game to crack, this is the one because the bad guy makes real money.
The unintended effect is creating a dual currency system. Though national regulations may/may not explicitely forbid this, you will find Treasuries the world over putting a stop to this.
It will make what happened to Napster a proverbial walk in the park.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Metaverse, here we come! http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/wowworld .html
I think I'll skip this Entropia thing, btw. It DOES sound like a casino.
The 'Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it. - William Gibson
So what you are saying...is that the boring parts of games should be for poor people?
Not really on topic, but I happened to be listening to "The suits are picking up the bill" by Squirrel Nut Zippers while reading your post. And it went.. well.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Ten PEDs are the equivalent to one US dollar.
So this is a fixed exchange rate, like the Chinese Renminbi. Is this like saying the virtual experience is always worth 1/10th of the actual one? Are there pricing fluctuations in the PED that would suggest it is under/over-valued?
On that note, another SD article mentioned how Flooz was put out of business by $300,000 worth of virutal credit charged to fake accounts. This PED virtual economy sounds a little more robust, but that doesn't seem to rule out the possibility of large-scale fraud from criminals in countries where the real-world rules won't get enforced. What's a Flooz worth now? And what will a PED be worth if someone rips them off, or someone else designs a better universe in a year or two?
Going from the idea that virtual money ceases to exist once you pull the plug of the computer
what about those "real dollars" in your pocket, what happens to them when you pull the plug on
the Federal Reserve? This has happened before and Federal Reserve Notes literally weren't worth the
paper they are printed on. There simply was nowhere you could redeem them in the Great Depression.
Real money is something that can not be canceled or devalued by a third party and is always redeemable
for goods. Precious metals you have in your posession (i.e. not rented out or put into safekeeping by
a third party) fall into that category. Anything else can (and will) be tampered with even the legendary
dollar on the gold standard many want to go back to (a dollar redeemable for a fixed amount of gold
that is kept in a vault). They could easily either stop redeeming dollar bills for gold or they could
also start the printing presses whenever they feel like it.
And yet access to credit is one of the things reckoned to help the third world. And I'm not talking about fake loans to corrupt governments. Think micro-credit agencies that lend farmers money to buy seed. And while it's easy to diss credit without it most people would never afford a house at all.
Agreed. I'm not saying credit or debt is bad (ok, debt is bad) but rather peoples concept of debt and how they manage it. About every other week you can hear/read a news story about how much the average persons personal debt is. It's something like $5,000. But that's the average. People like me are way under that number which means there are people out there with $10,000 or more of credit card debt. That doesn't even account for any other loans they may have outstanding including mortgages.
The micro-crdit agencies you speak of are great. I've seen several stories over the years about how these agencies will give small loans ($100 or so) to villagers somewhere in the third world so they can get better equipment which allows them to produce more goods which then allows them to have more money to expand their production and so on and so forth. The key though is the education process that these people have to go through to understand that they will have to pay this money back over time and how that process works.
Compare that to the usual process here in the U.S. where any collage student can get a credit card (which is how I got my first one) and run up huge bills because, for whatever reason, the basic concept of managing debt was never explained to them. Then, when they have to pay off thousands of dollars of student loans AND the thousands of dollars in credit card debt, they whine and complain about how they have to work so hard to pay off their debts. What, did they think the credit card company would let them not pay off their bills?
We can blame whomever we want (lack of parental responsibility, lack of schooling, etc) but in the end this concept that we should put every outlay on a credit card (.65 cents for a candy bar in some cases) and not grasp that the interest that will eventually be paid on the purchase can be larger than the actual purchase itself if not paid off quickly needs to be broken. It's a mindset of this country that "Buy now, pay later!" is our friend.
Debt is evil. A necessary evil but evil nonetheless. Once I stopped putting loads of money on my credit card and started paying off my bill every month or paying cash whenever possible I was able to accumulate the money I now have to purchase a house (high house prices are making it difficult though) with 20% down so I avoid the PMI tax (er, fee).
If more people would pay off their debts, stop using check cashing services (15% of the total to cash a check!) and would pay in cash you'd see a huge improvement in living conditions including more money put away for retirement purposes.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Wow is my life now. I work, sleep(badly), eat, poop, and exist to play WoW. I often wonder if everyone is as consumed by it as I am. Then another red dot pops up and I kill and forget my train of thought...
:-)
For the single, White, Male, no-kids, slightly overweight, woman hateing, computer dorks of the world, this is our only and best outlet. I suppose if I didn't hate women (or was gay or something) that might be different, but I'm a firm believer in learning from your mistakes. I've made two of them thus far, and managed to get out of it without kids. I consider myself lucky to only be addicted to WoW in my post relationship life. I mean there are far more potent drugs out there to ease the pain.
So say what you want, but WoW is a perfectly fine way to passify a generation of lost men who have, no abor social entanglements...
-Duff