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The Biggest Game Dev You've Never Heard Of

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the busy-little-ninjas dept.

simoniker writes "Japan-based game developer Tose has 1,000 employees, and has created 1,100 game SKUs since 1979 (including Final Fantasy GBA versions, though they can't mention it in this interview!), but they're basically unknown, because they're 'game development ninjas', and 'refuse to put [their] names on the game'. Odd stuff."

85 comments

  1. Best response ever by flooey · · Score: 5, Funny
    From the article:
    GS: So how do you teach publishers that outsourcing is potentially beneficial? It seems like a lot of companies really want to keep things in-house.

    KS: We just beg them.
    1. Re:Best response ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny
      KS: We just beg them.

      Prease, prease, we velly good deveroper.

    2. Re:Best response ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's funny about that? Am I not stupid enough for Slashdot?

  2. Game development ninjas? by GroeFaZ · · Score: 5, Funny

    Like, they can TOTALLY FLIP OUT and WRITE GAMES?

    I for one dig that.

    --
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
    1. Re:Game development ninjas? by BigCheese · · Score: 1

      > I for one dig that.

      Umm, wrong site.

      --
      The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
    2. Re:Game development ninjas? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of Hollywood ninjas. In the real world (or at least in Japanese folklore), ninjas are masters of stealth.

    3. Re:Game development ninjas? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      You're thinking of Hollywood ninjas.

      No, he's thinking of this website....particularly "fact" #3:

      http://www.realultimatepower.net/ninja/ninja2.htm

    4. Re:Game development ninjas? by apoc06 · · Score: 0

      17 million hits? youre kidding me... people on the internet read anything.

    5. Re:Game development ninjas? by fm6 · · Score: 1, Informative
      That page is just about as Hollywood as you can get. "Ninjas fight all the time!" What crap.

      The Wikipedia page on ninjas is pretty good. Certainly gives a better notion of what a ninja was.

    6. Re:Game development ninjas? by KingEomer · · Score: 1

      The Authoritative Page is by far a better source than wikipedia.

    7. Re:Game development ninjas? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      It's certainly more entertaining. However, it perpetuates the popular myth that Tina Fay is a ninja.

    8. Re:Game development ninjas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      meanwhile a guitar screams in the background

    9. Re:Game development ninjas? by LordKronos · · Score: 1

      That page is just about as Hollywood as you can get. "Ninjas fight all the time!" What crap.

      Wow...you sure can take a joke seriously.

    10. Re:Game development ninjas? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Knock knock!

    11. Re:Game development ninjas? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just like you did

    12. Re:Game development ninjas? by wed128 · · Score: 1

      Who's there??

    13. Re:Game development ninjas? by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

      Slashdot? You're kidding me... people on the internet read anything.

      Sorry

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
    14. Re:Game development ninjas? by fireman+sam · · Score: 1

      Stewie, and he'll always be there.

      --
      it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
  3. Japanese vs American attitudes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's interesting to see the difference between Japanese and American attitudes here. Whereas Activision was founded primarily so that individual devs could get credit for their games, the biggest game development company, which is Japanese, doesn't even put it's name on games.

    1. Re:Japanese vs American attitudes by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Activision was founded primarily so that individual devs could get credit for their games

      Arguably, that's because they weren't getting any money for their work. If the devs were paid what they were worth, I can assure you that they wouldn't have complained as much.

      What's funny is that Todd Frye (the creator of Atari Pacman for the 2600) got both money in the form of royalties AND fame for his work on PacMan! Even more amusing is that it was a rushed translation, and Mr. Frye didn't like PacMan! Some people have all the luck.

      Go Figure.

      --
      Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
    2. Re:Japanese vs American attitudes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you can really draw overgeneralized conclusions from one company that has decided on a consultancy-like business model.

  4. Interesting but... by GundamFan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This isn't that surprising, large cooperations contract smaller companies to do work under there name all the time. That said, I do find these kind of "How stuff gets made" and "Who makes that?" articles fascinating, thanks for the link.

    --
    I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
    Mark Twain
    1. Re:Interesting but... by BecomingLumberg · · Score: 1
      Microsoft does that too, kinda, but they just wait for a good product to come along and then buy the company to milk the hell of it until it dies.

      Oh, and there != their. \\grammar nazi

      --
      If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.-TJ
    2. Re:Interesting but... by Snowmit · · Score: 1

      Except that this is about an ENORMOUS company that other companies are contracting out. They have 1000 employees making games. That's enormous. And no one has ever heard of them.

      --
      I have a lot of opinions about Cyborgs and Architects
  5. Am I wrong here by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But from the interview, it sounds more like they act as subcontractors than actual game developers.

    They don't design the house (architect), don't pay for it (home owner), but 9-5 mondays to fridays, look at the specs and build it.

    Otherwise, all of their moves, like not insisting on retaining the IP, make no sense.

    1. Re:Am I wrong here by chrismcdirty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But would you say that the subcontractors didn't build the house because they weren't involved in the design or purchase? They're still developing the game, but they're given a set of requirements and develop the game according to those requirements. It seems like what every other software developer does.

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    2. Re:Am I wrong here by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

      If you really want to make games it makes sense, also without IP you don't get series-itis.

      They don't want to spend massive time negotiating and dealing with legal squables so they can be working full time at a constant rate.

      I bet another aspect of their business is not trying to have everyone put in their ideas all the time, if people just do what they're told the management can realize their vision really fast.

      An interesting concept of development.

    3. Re:Am I wrong here by asb · · Score: 1

      Otherwise, all of their moves, like not insisting on retaining the IP, make no sense.

      Yes, you are wrong here. :) For a company that does not publish games retaining related intellectual property rights would be silly. What would they do with the IP if they are not in the game publishing business? Not retaining IP means they can charge more money.

      Also, I'd say 1100 games in 27 years proves that they do know how to operate a business.

      --
      Antti S. Brax - Old school - http://www.iki.fi/asb/
    4. Re:Am I wrong here by tod_miller · · Score: 1

      That is exactly what he did say... look at the specs and build it.

      You said:

      They're still developing the game, but they're given a set of requirements and develop the game according to those requirements.

      he said

      look at the specs and build it.

      What fucking world of trinary logic do you hail from?

      I swear I want to flip out right now, and that wouldbe awesome. And by awesome I mean, fuck it, you know. Sweet.

      --
      #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  6. Not sure about these guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do we really want somebody with this kind of power making our games?

  7. Scary by Perseid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From the article:
    We try to act behind the scenes, and we follow our clients' desires, instructions and everything, so our policy is not to have a vision. In our company, we follow the customer's vision.

    Programming for these guys must be loads of fun. Yikes.

    1. Re:Scary by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You see, that's the thing. They program for you! ; )

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:Scary by I8TheWorm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe it's better to have no vision than a completely distorted one? Not that I speak from experience or anything...

      --
      Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.
    3. Re:Scary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it could be pretty cool, instead of dealing with junk like one brand, its 'brand awareness' and the consistent style that tends to come with that, you get to jump from style to style.

    4. Re:Scary by dreemernj · · Score: 1

      At the beginning of the first programming class I took in college, the professor asked "Who wants to spend the rest of their life in a cubicle?"

      I started to laugh.

      More than half the class raised their hand.

      They would probably love this place. I switched to pscyhology.

      --
      1 (short ton / firkin) = 89.1432354 slugs / keg
    5. Re:Scary by hal2814 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's all a matter of perspective. I used to work construction and I can tell you that I'd much rather spend my day in a cubicle than framing houses or pouring concrete. Fortunately, I have an office now but there are far worse fates than getting a cubicle for a workspace.

    6. Re:Scary by LooseIsNotLose · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Not a very forward thinking professor, then. I am a programmer by trade, and my Oracle cubicle is about to be given away because I'm never there. With my (company) laptop, I can do my job anywhere--at home in my PJs, in the local coffee shop, or while visiting relatives in Alaska. How many jobs give you this level of freedom for a decent wage and benefits?

      To be fair, the first time I was a CS major in the early 90s, I didn't really see where the Internet wave was going to take us, myself. Sure, I'd been online since 1983, but somehow it never seemed real to me that I would truly be able to telecommute like this. When I went back to school in the late 90s, I had missed the crest of the wave, when many were able to get rich for doing almost nothing, but I now had the attainable goal in mind of finding a non-geographically-fixed job.

      I recently re-watched James Burke's The Day the Universe Changed, made in 1985, and found it a little eerie how well he described my current working conditions in the first episode.

    7. Re:Scary by Cryptnotic · · Score: 1

      I switched to pscyhology.

      So you're probably self employed and work out of a tiny office, maybe attached to the side of your house. And you probably don't make much money. Or you don't work as a psychologist.

      Personally, I like working out of a nice air-conditioned office and being well-paid. And if I'm ambitious, I can work for a startup company or start my own or become a specialist in something and work as a consultant (though that would generally require a lot of travel).

      --
      My other first post is car post.
    8. Re:Scary by eison · · Score: 1

      I suspect your average cube dweller believes he would rather be outside framing houses.

      Fair chance he's wrong if he were to try it, but on the other hand, difficult to underestimate the soul-sucking ability of cubes, especially given the permanent lack of tangible accomplishment associated with them. It's pretty much impossible to create anything real (non-virtual) in a cube farm.

      --
      is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
    9. Re:Scary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you probably don't make much money.

      There's more to life than money. Though the kind of person who makes comments like yours rarely seems to notice.

  8. I know a bigger one... by dreddnott · · Score: 2, Funny

    Back in college there was this really TALL and FAT guy, I mean he was BIG!

    He's actually the biggest game dev I know, but nobody's heard of him...

    --
    I may make you feel, but I can't make you think.
    1. Re:I know a bigger one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      was his name glenn?

  9. me too! by simonjp · · Score: 1

    I've written loads of games too but of course if I told you which I'd have to kill you.

    --
    , , , , , karma elon
    1. Re:me too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've written loads of games too but of course if I told you which I'd have to kill you.

      And based on your website, I'd guess they're all $15 throwaway lucasarts titles.

    2. Re:me too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You knew Gabe Newell?!?

  10. At least they have history by Kabuthunk · · Score: 3, Funny

    As they said in the interview, they have a good portfolio. It'd be kinda nice to see WHAT is in their portfolio though. For all I know, they're the ones behind all those godawful Mary Kate & Ashley games, or Barbie Horse Adventure or some such. Might explain why they don't put their names on games :P

    --
    Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
  11. Could we get a look at their portfolio? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

    I mean, I know a few games that would make me understand why someone refuses to put his name on the "I did it" list...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. but of course by goldaryn · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    *waves hand*.. these aren't the game development ninjas you're looking for..

    1. Re:but of course by manno · · Score: 1

      These arn't the game development ninjas we're looking for.

    2. Re:but of course by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Dude- these are ninjas. They'd just disappear in a puff of smoke.

      Then totally flip out and kill you.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  13. Re:Mission accomprished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Mission accomprished. All SrashDot deveropers are berong to us...

    See, assuming you're using the QWERTY layout, the "L" is located on the right side of the keyboard, as opposed to the "R" which is on the left side...

    ...Oh wait, you're trying to be funny? In that case, you're not funny, you're just a fucking moron...

  14. So American McGee.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is bizarro Tose?

  15. AH, that explains it! by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 4, Funny

    It makes sense now... Game Dev. Ninjas are at war with Software Pirates, YARRRRRRRR!!!

    1. Re:AH, that explains it! by malvidin · · Score: 1

      Why? Do Game Dev. Ninjas like Global Warming?

    2. Re:AH, that explains it! by Attrition_cp · · Score: 1

      (zing!)

      --
      Touched By His Noodley Appendage.
  16. Re:Mission accomprished by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 4, Funny

    Mission accomprished. All SrashDot deveropers are berong to us...

    "ME SO SOLLY! AH SO!"

    Dude, it's the twenty-first century. Can we try to show a LITTLE respect for foreign cultures?

  17. Re:Mission accomprished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All SrashDot deveropers are berong to us...

    That's Racist!

  18. Not that unusual by nuggz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It sounds like a funny answer, but really it isn't that unusual.

    It's surprising how much is available when you just ask the right way.

    Being at the right place at the right time and simply asking "can I help out" can really get you places.

  19. Credits by Hangeron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I saw a quote related to this recently. I don't remember the exact words but the gist of it was that a team gets much more done when they don't have to care about who gets the credit.

    I really think it can help a lot in making the team feel more like a unit and reduce work related stress.

    1. Re:Credits by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      I suppose it also helps with variety. "Aw, man, I'm sick of animating WW2 soldiers, do you have any hentai babes that need animating?"

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    2. Re:Credits by gasmasher · · Score: 1

      I used to work on a team that was full of units and we didn't get a thing done.

    3. Re:Credits by colmore · · Score: 1

      There are varying theories about this. On the one hand, not having the fear of blame is nice, but on the other, anonymity can do to development what it does to spelling, grammar, and politeness...

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
  20. Game development turtles: by wideBlueSkies · · Score: 2, Funny

    In a related story, the biggest game we've never played is described here.

    --
    Huh?
  21. Re:Mission accomprished by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

    On a Dvorak layout R and L are directly next to each other.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  22. Developer credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thing is, it wasn't until the early 90's that Developers began getting full credit on video games they developed as subcontractors to publishers. A dev's logo would never appear on the box of a NES game. And they didn't appear on most SNES games either (though by that time, you would see their logos in the start-up sequence and their names in the credits).

    Times have changed, but we shouldn't act like the only time devs didn't get credit was back in the Atari 2600 days...

  23. Second best response ever by adavies42 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    GS: And you work across all tools?

    SC: Pretty much. And everything we use is legally licensed, even in China.

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
  24. Re:Mission accomprished by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    OK, let me see if I have the SlashDot speech code down.

    "All your X are belong to us." (Poor grammar.)
    +1 Funny

    "...are berong to us." (Poor pronunciation.)
    -1 Troll

    Look about right?

  25. Re:Mission accomprished by alanoneil · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Pretty much, yeah. The first is comical due to incompetence. Who releases a game in a foreign market without getting a real professional to translate it properly? The second is attempting humor due to inability for learned speech phonemes to morph for other languages' sounds. In case you haven't noticed, English is extremely diverse in the sounds we produce. That's why there are so many differet 'accents' that can be associated with it. Other, simpler (more sane) languages like Japanese and Spanish have less phonemes and thus native speakers have a disadvantage when trying to learn the complex and mindfucked English.

    Summary:
    AYBABTU: funny because of an avoidable screw-up.
    "berong"/"solly"/etc: not funny, just insensitive to verbal inabilities.

    --
    --
  26. Re:Mission accomprished by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Like dude, could we stop pushing this lame political correctness crap? No one group should be excluded from having a bit of fun poked at it, instead of restricting any speech to the point where no one can say anything about anyone or anything... let's go the other way and make each and every one open to the same jokes/comments and learn to LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  27. Re:Mission accomprished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This entire thread proves that Slashfags aren't responsible individuals when they get Moderation points to spend.

  28. Re:Mission accomprished by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not until they apologize for Dragon Ball Z!

  29. Which is best? by Phat_Tony · · Score: 2, Funny

    So who would win, Game Developer Ninjas, Game Developer Pirates, Game Developer Robots, or Game Developer Monkeys?

    --
    Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
    1. Re:Which is best? by Telepathetic+Man · · Score: 1

      The multi-class game developer, ninja monkey pirate robot.

      --
      Just because you can, does not mean you should.
  30. Re:Mission accomprished by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

    Like dude, could we stop pushing this lame political correctness crap? No one group should be excluded from having a bit of fun poked at it

    Spoken like a true white male middle-class American 20-to-30-year-old.

  31. Sceptic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not too sure about this, the article could just be pr for their company. From what I've seen they don't do very complex games.

  32. Re:Mission accomprished by Kabuthunk · · Score: 1

    Pretty much exactly what I was going to say. I get the feeling at times that many a racist doesn't even know that they are.

    --
    Planet Zebeth - Metroid with a twist
  33. Fresh and amusing excerpts from TFA... by dstone · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's a pretty funny, blunt interview. A few snippets, for those too lazy to RTF...

    GS: How come we've never heard of you until right now?
    KS: Well we're based in Kyoto, right? So we're ninja. You can't find us!

    KS: Our policy is not to have a vision.

    KS: We just beg them.
    GS: Seems like when you've made 1,100 games you shouldn't have to beg.

    GS: What's your stock value?
    SC: It's about 16 dollars now. We've had better days.

  34. Re:Mission accomprished by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Actually I'm Italian. Not only that but Sicilian. For the uneducated the Sicilian is one of the lowest "rank" of Italians (sometimes not even recognized as Italian) due to their closeness and "breeding" with Africans which lend us our dark skin. I know about opression, I know about jokes/comments/racism, I also have the ability to differentiate words and a little light-hearted poking fun. I believe that people need to get out of this brainwashed political correctness bullshit and just live. Be who you are, be proud of it, identify with it... the good and the bad. Confronting stereotypes and being able to laugh at yourself are very powerful things, shielding yourself and others and pretending otherwise is damaging and the true evil of PC'ness.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  35. Re:Mission accomprished by king-manic · · Score: 1

    Actually I'm Italian. Not only that but Sicilian. For the uneducated the Sicilian is one of the lowest "rank" of Italians (sometimes not even recognized as Italian) due to their closeness and "breeding" with Africans which lend us our dark skin. I know about opression, I know about jokes/comments/racism, I also have the ability to differentiate words and a little light-hearted poking fun. I believe that people need to get out of this brainwashed political correctness bullshit and just live. Be who you are, be proud of it, identify with it... the good and the bad. Confronting stereotypes and being able to laugh at yourself are very powerful things, shielding yourself and others and pretending otherwise is damaging and the true evil of PC'ness.

    Italians where considered non white about 50 years ago. Right now italians are treated pretty much like white people.

    --
    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  36. I've heard of them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've heard of them, it's just that they never heard of me!

  37. Re:Mission accomprished by rAiNsT0rm · · Score: 1

    Sure, except _Sicilians_ which I am have been the lowest of the low. Read up on it. You totally missed my point. Northern Italy is the upper crust, close to France and high class. Sicialians are considered lower in every way, poor, dirty, etc. No different than white/black issue in the U.S. In fact Sicialians have dark skin from the closeness with Africa and the many different takeovers and military occupations of Sicily. So for someone to accuse me of being racist is the stupidest thing in the world, expecially since when I trace my ancestry there is a direct link to africa and blacks. Not to mention the two black members of my family. I am certainly no racist, what I am trying to get across is the fact that EVERYONE of all races and nations needs to learn to lighten up and have a little fun at your own expense some times. The direction we are going it will soon be illegal to say damn near anything about anyone good or bad. That is insanity.

    --
    http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
  38. Re:Mission accomprished by 6Yankee · · Score: 1

    "ME SO SOLLY! AH SO!"

    Well, if you're sorry, stop calling me an asshole!

  39. Re:Mission accomprished by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    Actually, spoken like a rather funny(YMMV) Mexican/Honduran standup comic.