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VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch

feminazi writes "Jeff Boles attributes VMWare's dominance over Microsoft in the virtualization market to a combination of product depth and focus, but especially to the fact that 'VMWare is actually delivering Microsoft's product in the way that Microsoft should be delivering it.' The ease of GUI but with those enterprise-ready traits that Microsoft is still struggling with: application separation, and decent resource utilization."

231 comments

  1. VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Cromac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Today VMWare is eating Microsofts lunch, it's easier to use and performs better. But discounting MS would be a tragic mistake, this wouldn't be the first field MS entered late only to dominate later on. With their size, cash and market if MS wants to own the VM market on Windows eventually they will.

    1. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by TheShadowHawk · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah I guess that is why hotmail just shits all over gmail :)

      --
      Friends don't let Friends use Internet Explorer.
    2. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Tackhead · · Score: 4, Funny
      > Yeah I guess that is why hotmail just shits all over gmail :)

      And MSN search vomits chairs at Google search.

    3. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      But EMC owns VMWare and they have LOADS of money!

    4. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Ougarou · · Score: 2, Interesting
      If I would no anything about Windows (and I don't) I'd say they can easily start to beat VMWare using special kernel hooks.

      The bottom line is, they can probably make things better the VMWare ever will be able to do. Simply because they can even change parts of the kernel if needed. VMWare won't be able to compete with something like a sort of coWindows system, right? And that is what MS can build and VMWare simply can't. (coWindows as in coLinux)

    5. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by winkydink · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In terms of users who regularly use the service, Microsoft has almost an order of magnitude more users of Hotmail than Gmail has.... Somethign like 47 million vs 5 million (note: this is users who use the service on a regular basis, not total subscribers)

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    6. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's great, but how's that internet search thing working out for microsoft?

      Oh yeah, MS is in catch up mode. Looks like they can't beat out a company that uses a cluster of linux servers. Windows loses, Linux wins.

      So sorry.

    7. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by cp.tar · · Score: 1

      And Gmail is still invite-only.

      It's quite a good result, all things concerned: most people hate the idea of changing their e-mail address.
      Which is incidentally exactly why I only have a Gmail address, and completely ignore the mail addresses my ISP offers me. Sooner or later, I'll switch ISPs again.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    8. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Daedone · · Score: 5, Informative

      And Gmail is still invite-only.

      Not completely.

      https://www.google.com/accounts/SmsMailSignup1

    9. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by porl · · Score: 1

      even so, this shows how gmail is not interested in filling up their numbers as fast as possible. i think if they had an instant signup (without going through the 'hoops' of sms or invites), big flashy ads on every google page etc they would have more users, but i don't think they are that sort of company (i hope anyway) :)

    10. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by deathy_epl+ccs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >>Yeah I guess that is why hotmail just shits all over gmail :)
      >And MSN search vomits chairs at Google search.

      I think the big difference being, neither of these things is part of the operating system. Microsoft owns the desktop and has a pretty solid portion of the server... any time they feel the need to enter and dominate a market that is based in Windows itself, they tend to be rather successful at it.

      I personally wouldn't be terribly surprised to see VMWare continue to win for now, but as time goes on to see Microsoft insinuate itself more and more until it pushes VMWare out.

      Not that I want this, mind you, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen.

    11. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by wharlie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think one of the reasons MS is not competitive with VMWare is because VMWare actually benefits MS.
      Since we introduced VMWare in our enterprise the number of MS virtual machines has skyrocketed.
      Before if someone wanted a new MS server we had to purchase HW to run it on which is expensive and time consuming, where talking weeks to order and install.
      Now we can provision a new MS virtual server in about 30 mins.
      Once upon a time we would have tried to consolidate apps on physical servers to conserve HW, now each app gets it own VM, no more associability probs.
      MS is getting paid for all these new virtual servers that would not have existed.
      I'd say that VMware is not eating MS but feeding MS

    12. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by tuomoks · · Score: 1

      Very insightful (IMHO). This is a technical problem ( or not so much a problem, check IBM VM over years. ) and whatever MS is but they are not short of very talented people ( on technical level, I don't say anything about management.. ) So - once Bill puts his focus on virtualization and gives the right people the task I think VMWare has a fight. Now - of course, they have started very well, I just hope that they continue that way, not all bright architects live in MS ( or IBM ) world. And I run Linux and Xen when I develope in Delphi the HA communication/roaming/transaction/store&forward/ne twork management systems to support .NET / C# applications on win2K3 servers ( or next in Linux Mono ) interfacing AIX wireless servers ( had to say that - heh ! ) Why - SPEED, RELIABILITY, EASY TO DEVELOPE, and so on..... have a nice day.

    13. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      prol... Do you mean that you like google because they're the sort of company that's so good that would rather provide services to fewer users, or a company that wants more personal data about their customers than even MS collects?... I know - it's like they're heroes : )

    14. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by mlynch3261 · · Score: 1

      I think a prime example of this is the online mapping services. The newest version of local.live.com has not only better maps in my area (as compared to google maps... Orlando, FL), but the birds eye view is amazing. Just shows you that a company with the resources that MS has will either buy or Develop its way to the top.

    15. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Jay+Carlson · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm sad because I don't have modpoints today. That's the funniest thing I've seen in months. I'm still giggling five minutes later.

      But just try to explain it to outsiders.

      "See, Microsoft had this little problem with the transition of hotmail to NT...the server smelled funny so they put it back...uh, so there's this fierce rivalry between Microsoft and Google...lawsuits...uh...developers! developers! developers!"

      Yet another reason why Linux weenies aren't headlining the comedy tours this summer.

    16. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by advocate_one · · Score: 2, Informative

      unfortunately they don't allow this method from the UK...

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    17. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Jay+Carlson · · Score: 1

      I'm still wiping tears from my eyes. This is right up there with one of the repurposing of the software from Randomly Generated Paper Accepted to Conference to generate one of the best typeset listserv removal requests ever.

      Of course, now that I've reseen Figure 2 and reread the summary in section 5, I'm going to be laughing for a bit longer. Dammit.

    18. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by steve+buttgereit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I once was hired to record Novell's "Brain Share" users conference back in the early 90s. One of the speakers actually said in one of the sessions that, (paraphrasing a bit) "We've reached a point where Microsoft has conceded the network server space to us just as we don't try to challenge them on the desktop." What the speaker was implying was that Novell and Microsoft had found a way to co-exist. He said it so convincingly I can't help to think to this day that the poor guy actually believed it... and that may well have been why Novell is where it's at today rather than the dominant postition they had at the time in PC networking.

    19. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      then find someone selling a gmail account for like $1 and give him a dollar... ive seen them as low as $0.01 dollars lol so dont go saying you cant afford to just BUY an invite

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    20. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, that's nice. However, there is a whole world outside the borders of the few countries that are supported.
      And I'm in it.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    21. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Jesus_666 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, VMWare is eating Microsoft's lunch (via VirtualPC), but it's then passing on some of the nutrients. Kinda.

      I'd better stop pursuing that analogy, there's a bad mental image coming up.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    22. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Res3000 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure if you ask a bit around in forums you will find someone to send you an invite. No need to pay something.

    23. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by bdaspud · · Score: 1

      Keep an eye on this... apparently MS has something new up its sleeve in the virtualization market.

    24. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Cat_Byte · · Score: 1

      Yeah I guess that is why hotmail just shits all over gmail :)

      I know it was a joke and it made me grin...but....my Gmail spam filter blows compared to the configurable hotmail one. I never get spam in hotmail due to me being able to restrict only to people in my list. GMail seems to send me about 50 a week with the filter enabled. It's probably due to me having an email address starting with an 'a' so I get the first wave before they are reported as spam.

      --
      Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
    25. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by TravisO · · Score: 1

      MSN Search is dead... long live Live Search! Ok it's not the cat's pajamas but somebody while Google is reindexing and the results are out of whack, Live search provides better results. But that's like one day a month :P

    26. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by sootman · · Score: 1

      One would hope that's the case, since Hotmail's been around for a decade and GMail is only two years old. Sure, Hotmail got to 30 million users in just 3 years, but a) they were the first, and only, wembail provider at the time, and b) Gmail has spent most of its life as invite-only.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    27. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      But EMC owns VMWare and they have LOADS of money! But MS has loads more.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How long until Microsoft takes a stab at buying VMWare? They just bought Softricity, which does a phenominal job at virtualizing applications. If they're realizing how much of a benefit the virtualization realm is, it's only a matter of time until they make an offer. Discuss...

    29. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Hell,I'll be happy to give you one.I still got 100 to give away so just send me an email and it's yours.Anyone else that don't have one feel free to email me and I'll pass them out until they're gone.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    30. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by aonaran · · Score: 1
      If you look carefully at MS Licenses for Windows Server 2003, you can have more windows "servers" for less $$ using virtualization.


      Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition Each software license allows you to run, at any one time, one instance of the server software in a physical OS environment and up to four instances of the server software in virtual OS environments on a particular server.

      SQL Server 2005 (licensed Server/CAL) Workgroup Edition, Standard Edition and Enterprise Edition Each software license allows you to run any number of instances of the server software in one physical or virtual OS environment on a particular server at a time.


      So, if your alternative was seperate hardware with seperate licenses to maintain a dedicated OS environment for troublesome applications... then VMWare is taking away some sales from MS products other than MS Virtual Server
    31. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by JiMbOb_ka · · Score: 1

      VMware ESX Server (which is the enterprise product) is based off, and runs on, Linux. So Microsoft can create special hooks all day long. Thanks to opensource, VMware has kernel level access to their OS too.

    32. Re: VMWare Eats Microsoft's Lunch by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      just like i have 98 laying round, i mean id rather do something usefull with them as opposed to just make 50 extra accounts from redirects to email aliases at my domain and use the gspace plugin to store all my photos lol

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
  2. I have a choice and I choose VMWare by Wiseleo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    VMWare is easier to use.

    Windows does not require reactivation when the image is opened in VMWare Server, Player, or Workstation. VPC images of demo configurations featuring pre-activated Windows that I get from Microsoft and attempt to run under Virtual Server require reactivation.

    VMWare Workstation has too many useful features.

    Therefore, I create my own demo environments in VMWare Server as my first choice and run VPC images in Virtual PC 2004 by necessity. Guess which environment is significantly faster? I have no incentive to use Virual Server 2005 R2.

    --
    Leonid S. Knyshov
    Find me on Quora :)
    1. Re:I have a choice and I choose VMWare by rikkus-x · · Score: 1

      VMWare Workstation also has the very useful multiple snapshot (and tree) feature - which makes testing much easier than with Virtual PC, where you have to play with files to get the same effect, and can easily get lost.

  3. But VMWare fears Parallels by winkydink · · Score: 3, Interesting

    in a big way... little Russian upstart making a big entry into the space

    --

    "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    1. Re:But VMWare fears Parallels by ChipX86 · · Score: 1

      Oh? How do you figure? I don't think any of us have lost any sleep over Parallels yet.

    2. Re:But VMWare fears Parallels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not? I hadn't heard of Parallels and just took a look at the website. From what I can see it's signficantly cheaper than VMware stuff, and from a Linux perspective they seem to use Qt, they provide a .deb, and they mention Kubuntu in the setup instructions, all of which are good to see. On the downside there's no 64-bit support. Oh and they do Mac support, which is nice I suppose. The blog is informative. It all looks much the same as VMware from a regular user's perspective, but cheaper. Why wouldn't you be worried about them?

    3. Re:But VMWare fears Parallels by KmArT · · Score: 1

      Why wouldn't I be worried about Parallels? Because they're only targeting the workstation marketplace. There is plenty of room for both of them to coexist. I'm running a copy of Parallels Desktop on my MacBook Pro now (its in the window behind Firefox right now, running Windows). And I'm running ESX Server at work, for server applications. Now granted, I started out using VMWare 1.0, which was for a workstation only (where Parallels is now). But I think that VMWare has enough of a head start that Parallels is of not much concern to them...

    4. Re:But VMWare fears Parallels by ChipX86 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I should clarify my opinion on this (and it's just my opinion). The virtualization marketspace is large and there are many areas to grow into. Parallels is targetting certain users and use cases. VMware is targetting certain users and use cases. Xen is targetting some. QEMU. Virtual Server. They all have users and are being used for different things. I think Parallels is playing things smart by getting into the Mac market early and targetting the users there with a low priced product, and that may secure a position for them there. But it's not at a point where I feel VMware has to fear it. Keep the company in mind, yes. But "VMware fears Parallels in a big way" is a bold statement to make :)

      (My opinion is my own, and not necessarily that of VMware.)

    5. Re:But VMWare fears Parallels by mrbooze · · Score: 1

      I asked a VMWare Rep about if they had any plans to release VMWare for OSX and all he would say was that they were "in talks" with Apple. He implied there was potential hangups about Apple not wanting OSX to run in a VM.

      All of which sort of makes me wonder why Parallels didn't seem to need to have conversations with Apple about it. (Though I assume you can't run OSX in a Parallels VM either.)

      I half suspect the real issue is that VMWare is part of EMC now, and EMC flat doesn't give a shit about Apple.

  4. Re:Oh yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in soviet Russia, salad tosses you!

  5. Most of all by goldaryn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For TFSummary: "Microsoft is still struggling with: application separation, and decent resource utilization."

    And above all: security. Surely.

    1. Re:Most of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To struggle with something you should have it at first place, no? How can you struggle with an absence of something?

  6. How Strong Is VMWare's Grip? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:

    "But the other thing, is that VMWare has locked onto Microsoft's weak spot with the grip of a bulldog."

    Somehow, a Bulldog does not conjure up an image of a death-grip hold. But a Pitbull, on the other hand, ...ouch!

    1. Re:How Strong Is VMWare's Grip? by kfg · · Score: 1
  7. Solaris Support? by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wish that EMC/VMware would hurry up and add Solaris 10 x86 host support.

    Would be rather nice to run VMWare under Solaris 10.

    1. Re:Solaris Support? by dtbw · · Score: 2, Informative

      ESX Version 3 support Solaris 10

    2. Re:Solaris Support? by Zemplar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps, but I think [and agree with] the OP that it would be nice to have Solaris x86 host support in VMware's free versions as well.

    3. Re:Solaris Support? by 0racle · · Score: 2, Informative

      He said host, not guest. You don't need a host OS with ESX, it is the host. Solaris x86 is supported as a guest in most (all?) VMware products.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    4. Re:Solaris Support? by csoto · · Score: 1

      Technically the only official SUPPORT for Solaris 10 will be under Virtual Infrastructure 3 (VI3 is the new name for ESX). That said, I run Solaris 10 just fine under VMWare Workstation 5.5 (even though it's reported as "experimental"). But we are definitely going to look into running Solaris 10 production under VI3.

      The best news for ESX owners (with Serivce and Support agreements) is that we can buy into VI3 Enterprise (all the cool automation features) for a cool $1000 per TWO CPU server. Darn, that's a deal. I'm hoping .edu pricing will be lower :)

      --
      There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
  8. I can't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    :( What a bully.

  9. Not originally an MS product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    For what it's worth Microsoft Virtual Server was originally developed by Connectix, not MS. Microsoft bought it.

    1. Re:Not originally an MS product? by MrLint · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that Connectix was the company virtual PC for the Mac and the virutal gamestation that sony tried (and failed) to sue to death, and finally bought (and buried?) These guys are really top notch. However there is no knowing that being borged has done to them.

    2. Re:Not originally an MS product? by krray · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll also add to that and note that since Microsoft bought Connectix out that the product has gone to hell in a hand bag (looking at it from the Mac end, of course :). With each release (Connectix) it just got better and _faster_. That is no longer the case it seems -- today it just seems to be full of Microsoft induced bugs and problems (as usual).

      With Apple going to Intel I'm frankly waiting (with baited breath) for VMWare to come out with a version for OS X [Intel]. It is then that I'll probably get serious about buying a new Mac. In the mean time I find that using VNC to tie to a real Windows box (if/when needed, albeit more and more rare :) is much faster than the current iteration of VirtualPC.

    3. Re:Not originally an MS product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      virtualization software for mac > parallels
      but will be nice have an vmware version too =)

    4. Re:Not originally an MS product? by heh3d · · Score: 1

      I remember Connectix as a primarily Mac company. It seems to me that a bunch of Microsoft's best products started out with Mac developers. Halo anyone?

    5. Re:Not originally an MS product? by wbd · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't forget Windows, too...

    6. Re:Not originally an MS product? by Kancept · · Score: 1

      The Mac version is actually going to hell, the OS/2 version is already there. We get one release, M$ buys it up and no more. Like anything that still reminds them of OS/2 disappears right quick.

    7. Re:Not originally an MS product? by x2A · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that more IBM than Apple?

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    8. Re:Not originally an MS product? by hawaiian717 · · Score: 3, Informative

      With Apple going to Intel I'm frankly waiting (with baited breath) for VMWare to come out with a version for OS X [Intel]

      Have you looked at Parallels Desktop? It much like VMWare Workstation, but cheaper.

      --
      End of Line.
    9. Re:Not originally an MS product? by katsklaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      DOS isn't an original MS product either, guess where that went. Come to think of it .. the GUI isn't a MS innovation .. neither is networking, email, ftp, telnet, gopher, http .. the list goes on and on. Yet who holds the market?

    10. Re:Not originally an MS product? by realkiwi · · Score: 1

      That is what MS calls "innovation" - have you been out of town for a while?

      --
      realkiwi
    11. Re:Not originally an MS product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been using Parallels beta on OSX for a couple of months on both a Mac Book and Mac Book Pro. I have Windows XP and Windows Server 20003 images. It rocks...

    12. Re:Not originally an MS product? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but VMware SERVER is FOR FREE! So how can that be cheaper?

    13. Re:Not originally an MS product? by PriusFan · · Score: 1

      DOS was an IBM product, but the original Windows-type interface was a XEROX PARC invention.

      Wikipedia says: "Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PARC) was a flagship research division of the Xerox Corporation, based in Palo Alto, California, USA. It was founded in 1970, and spun out as a separate company (still wholly owned by Xerox) in 2002. It is best known for essentially creating the modern personal computer graphical user interface (GUI) paradigm."

    14. Re:Not originally an MS product? by x2A · · Score: 1

      I was more on about the codebase (in the way that the virtual server codebase wasn't originally developed my MS, the post I replied to kinda implied that Windows came from Apple in a similar way) - but thanks for refreshing my memory on the xerox issue... does make me wonder how Apple did things like force MS to pay to be able to allow their windows to overlap (which I guess means they patented z-order), but I'll try not to get too much into the patent thing, it's kinda been rinsed out here.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  10. Too little, too late by PenguinBoyDave · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Microsoft never really had a chance...did they? VMware simply rocks and supports a lot of platforms. Mhy Microsoft felt Virtual Server was even necessary was beyond me. Even when they give away free sessions, VMware STILL beats them hands-down.

    I ask again, what were they thinking exactly?

    --
    I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
    1. Re:Too little, too late by pnatural · · Score: 2, Insightful
      [W]hy Microsoft felt Virtual Server was even necessary was beyond me.

      They understand that someday they will have to ditch the entire spaghetti code base that is Windows(TM). By the time that they will seriously consider that, the commodity hardware of the day will be able to virtualize another OS with little or no (perceived) performance penalty. So they invest in this tech now, in the hopes of providing an upgrade path to (er, revenue stream from) their customers.

      Just my US$0.02.

    2. Re:Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've tried VMware a couple times, but I like VPC a lot better. It suits my needs and I have yet to have any issues with it. I find that I can get a greater number of operating systems working on VPC than on VMware. For example, OS/2 doesn't run on VMware at all.

  11. Obligatory arch commment by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 5, Funny
    What we really want in the Microsoft OS, is access to some of the user tools and easy administration that comes with the GUI, while having the ability to control application separation, get better resource utilization, be hardware agnostic and stop rebuilding installs all the time...


    Oh, I get it. So what we really want from the Microsoft OS is Ubuntu.

    ...and manage the system as well as other enterprise OS's have in the past


    or, rather RHEL.
    1. Re:Obligatory arch commment by pcgabe · · Score: 1
      So what we really want from the Microsoft OS is Ubuntu.
      I....I honestly can't decide if Microsoft Ubuntu would be totally awesome, or cause all the trees in the forests to wither and die.

      Huh.
      --
      Don't put advice in your sig.
  12. This isn't really news... by coop247 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am a VMWare junky, I have been using them for years and they continue to deliver quality software and upgrades are always jammed with new features.

    Unfortunately....

    Since MS gives Virtual Machine away to big Co.'s I am forced to use this horrible product at work. Once again MS finds a market, makes a far inferior product, then jams it down your throat by giving it away to their big customers.

    --
    //TODO: Insert catchy phrase
    1. Re:This isn't really news... by PriusFan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Disclaimer: I am a VMware employee. And I work in marketing. Please don't hurt me. Just wanted to mention that VMware Server is also free... and just as good as (better than?) MicroSoft Virtual Server.

    2. Re:This isn't really news... by joe90 · · Score: 1
      Since MS gives Virtual Machine away to big Co.'s I am forced to use this horrible product at work. Once again MS finds a market, makes a far inferior product, then jams it down your throat by giving it away to their big customers.


      So does VMWare - with VMWare Server. Although it's currently a Release Candidate version, and not yet available as "Production Ready" it seems to be fairly much identical to VMWare GSX Server, minus some of the management tools. Even with the missing tools, it appears to be better than the MS Virtual Server 2005 in terms of performance, manageability and stability. VMWare have also stated that once released, it will continue to be "free".

      Once you are ready to upgrade to ESX server (which scales magnificently better than MS VS 5 or other VMWare products), there is a painless migration path.
      --

      Fast, cheap & reliable. Pick two.
    3. Re:This isn't really news... by nharmon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am not a VMware employee. The virtual machines you create in VMware Server have the advantage that they can be modified to run on ESX Server, and vice versa. Its kinda nice starting out with Vmware Server and then, when you budget gets approved, not have to reload those servers from scratch.

    4. Re:This isn't really news... by cowmix · · Score: 1

      I am (and have been) using VMWare Server and it doesn't seem to have anything missing from GSX. It seems to have a little more than GSX for that matter, at least with the new C API..

      So far, every new version of Server has gotten better and better.. I am running it under Centos 4.3, Windows XP and Dapper and its been working great.

    5. Re:This isn't really news... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      I don't work for VMWare, but I work for a large company that happens to own VirtualPC.

      Anyways, I use VirtualPC, because it's the best that's available for OSX PowerPC, which is what I have at home. But mostly I just use it to install a copy of Windows XP which I use to remote access into work, so that I can work from home when I need to. I really don't have VirtualPC for anything else.

      I'm happy that since the company I work for owns VirtualPC, that I can get it for very cheap at an employee discount. Otherwise, I'd have good reason to claim it as a tax deduction.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    6. Re:This isn't really news... by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Isn't there a remote desktop client for the Mac?

    7. Re:This isn't really news... by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      Your company happens to be giving the Mac RDC client away for free. :-D

      Unless you mean some other kind of remote access? Macs can natively handle most VPNs and have Samba built in. What sort of remote access does XP have built in that OS X doesn't?

    8. Re:This isn't really news... by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 0, Troll

      Not entirely true. With the recent release of Vista Beta, I decided to try out VM Ware. Well, not really. I'd used VM Ware years before (when it was like $99) and had tried several "free" editions avalable on popular download sites everywhere. Anyway...

      So, I go the the VM Ware site and I see that what you really offer is a free "beta" edition of VM Ware Server 5.

      So, at some point, it may or may not leave beta. If it does, your keys may or may not expire. What you advertise as "free" is, in fact, a possible ticking bomb on a system.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    9. Re:This isn't really news... by Baricom · · Score: 1

      What sort of remote access does XP have built in that OS X doesn't?

      You must be new here. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    10. Re:This isn't really news... by MSFanBoi2 · · Score: 1

      Virtual Server isn't horrible. It's quite good. No, it's not ESX or VMWare Server, but it still works very well.

      Why is it OK for VMWare to let VMWare Server go for free, but not so for Microsoft to release their product for free?

    11. Re:This isn't really news... by stickb0y · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. VMware Server is free as in beer. It happens to be in beta right now, but the official version still will be free, and VMware already has publically said so.

    12. Re:This isn't really news... by poulbailey · · Score: 4, Informative

      You probably should've checked the actual terms before posting this FUD, you know.

      From http://www.vmware.com/products/server/faqs.html:

      Q: Will VMware Server still be free when it is generally available?
      A: Yes, VMware Server will be a free product. There will not be any charge for licenses to VMware Server when it becomes generally available.

    13. Re:This isn't really news... by killjoe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      When is it going to go out of beta and get non expiring keys?

      --
      evil is as evil does
    14. Re:This isn't really news... by x2A · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not a VMware employee. I don't work in marketing. Please hurt me (I kinda like it). I've just installed vmware server onto one of my dedicated servers to run Windows (a customer needs a windows server, be I'll be damned if I'm installing Windows directly onto hardware. Now if Windows spazzes out, I can vmware-console in, and recover). VMware's a rarity in software, it works better than expected. Definitely a fanboy here.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    15. Re:This isn't really news... by guruevi · · Score: 1

      What your parent means is that the corpies HAVE to use it since they are Enterprise licensed for a very good price (read $1m/year for unlimited use of all software products depending on size). I know what parent means, it is stuffed down your throat while other implementations are cheaper and better. I worked at a company like that before. I implemented an Apache server with Linux for parked domains and had to make Apache & Linux reply as they were IIS & W2k3 because M$ was going to revoke their licenses otherwise, they also demanded my resignation.

      An example: I currently work at a company and need to integrate AD into some Mac's. One of their AD admins says that the AD & OpenLDAP implementation of my Mac OS X is way better, easier to set up 2x login and 3 small screens and has some nice features that they don't even have in the Windows world (eg. the appointing of a group in AD to administer the local settings of the computer while they still don't have to have special rights in the AD).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    16. Re:This isn't really news... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      the corpies ...

      I love it! LOL! ROFL! BLERT (fall over noisily). A new word for me, and I love it. Corpies.

      Well Said!

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    17. Re:This isn't really news... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1
      I'm not a VMware employee. I don't work in marketing. Please hurt me (I kinda like it).

      I agree. I've been testing VMWare programs since v1.x and ditto for MS Virtual Server. No contest between the two. If you want to do server consolidation, development testing, or in my case network security simulations. you can't beat VMWare. Much faster for all versions, whether workstation, GSX (Server now), or ESX as against Virtual Server and the interface is a definite thrill as against something that causes you to pound your head against the nearest wall. Ditto performance. And you can't beat the price of VMWare Server as against VS2005 R2 in terms of performance, reliability, and ease of use. Those are serious considerations when cost is no longer a factor. When you do become serious about consolidation, ESX blows VS2005 R2 away. Sorry, MS, go back to the drawing board but be aware that VMWare ain't sitting on its laurels. Thank God.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    18. Re:This isn't really news... by ohwell · · Score: 0

      this sentence "the appointing of a group in AD to administer the local settings of the computer while they still don't have to have special rights in the AD" shows that you know nothing about ad.

    19. Re:This isn't really news... by Abalamahalamatandra · · Score: 1

      Because Microsoft is a convicted monopolist? Does the phase "maintenance of monopoly" mean anything to you?

      And no, that doesn't mean taping up the corners of the box for your Parker Brothers game.

    20. Re:This isn't really news... by CougarCat · · Score: 0

      You mean VMWare Server BETA? The one that says "BETA" all over it? When they remove the "BETA" from the labeling, I think folks in the enterprise will be a bit more comfortable with it. I mean, c'mon, it's GSX rebranded, is it really beta software?

    21. Re:This isn't really news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm not a VMware employee. I don't work in marketing. Please hurt me (I kinda like it).
      I agree.
      Wait, so do you agree that he's not a VMware employee, that he doesn't work in marketing, or that he kinda likes being hurt?
    22. Re:This isn't really news... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      No, the remote access software we use is internal, and relies on a SmartCard for verification.

      They are quite clear on their page that no support for Mac is available.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    23. Re:This isn't really news... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      It's specifically the matter that this remote access is not available standard with XP.

      We use an internal system that relies upon SmartCards for verification, and the webpage for it is quite clear that no support exists for anything but Windows 2k+

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  13. No details. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The article offers no details about how or why VMWare is better than the Microsoft offering, and in fact, doesn't even mention the name of the MS offering. No details about the features offered by either product. No details about the history of either product. No details about the "product depth and focus" attributed to VMWare. "VMWare is doing this by really giving us what we need from the MS Windows OS, that Microsoft has never been able to deliver. VMWare is actually delivering Microsoft's product in the way that Microsoft should be delivering it." um, great, but, um, how is that? What is it that VM Ware delivers and how should Microsoft deliver it and how is VMWare delivering it? This is an op-ed piece, with an a-subtle antimicrosoft slant. Little more.

    1. Re:No details. by kfg · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Web 2.0, or "Information for the Attention Deficiant."

      What we used to call the abstract is now being passed off as the actual article. This one happens to be a blog so it would be easy to pass it off as a blogosphere thing, but it isn't really. Even the "mainstream" online journals are guilty. And the print journals are beginning to follow suit. Magazines are hardly worth reading anymore, because few of them actually contain anything to read. It would be one thing if any of them reached the quality of the original Life, but Maxim seems to be the new model to emulate.

      At least most of the blogs manage to put it all on one page of text. It'll take 'em a few more years to emulate smearing a single paragraph over 40 pages.

      KFG

    2. Re:No details. by kasper123 · · Score: 1

      You right they don't say. Vmware can connect clients and servers over networks - virtual pc can not.

    3. Re:No details. by bigpicture · · Score: 1

      And why not? Like MS never puts out any negative spin about other companies? And occasionally throws a chair or two.

      Like the glass house and the stones, you reap what you sow, you lie in the bed you make, the chickens come home to roost etc. etc.

    4. Re:No details. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They probably assumed you knew what they were talking about....which apparently is not the case.

      Anyone who does anything with virtualization knows who's best. Even when it was connectix it still was so far behind vmware as to be a non-item. It hasn't gotten any better.

    5. Re:No details. by steve_l · · Score: 2, Informative

      good point

      1. VMWare runs on non windows x86 platforms (Unix, linux, soon macos).

      2. They have *excellent* support, even for vmware client. That is a rarity today. But if you have some problem with the virtual VGA driver on Vista when hosting on Suse/Redhat, you can file tickets with them and get someone to actually help you -even to phone up to check up on how well it worked.

      3. It's pretty fast, even on x86 kit without the new opcodes

      4. VMWare images are freely redistributable, they dont even ask for reactivation when you move XP or Vista images around.

      5. Its a realistic enough OS emulation you can develop and debug kernel-mode code on it.

      #5 matters. We've done stuff that needed drivers in the IDE chain to emulate enhanced DVD drives that werent ready. Virtual PC would just bail out, its their virtual IDE drive and you mustnt fiddle with. VMWare happily runs the stuff.

      I got into using VMWare just to run windows apps on Unix. Its not as elegant a solution as Wine -you need two operating systems to keep up to date, a virtual XP image is just as insecure as a real one. But it runs nearly everything, even those legacy apps that I need to use to do corporate things like travel expense.

      What we've got into more recently is vmware for simulating and testing complex networks/systems. As an example, say your web server needs a database behind it, and it takes ages to populate it with 5million records for testing. Create the database on a virtual linux image, fully configured, then save that image as a snapshot. whenever you need the database up for testing, bring up the image, then revert to the snapshot afterwards. Its lovely.

      -steve

  14. Re:Oh yeah? by kfg · · Score: 1

    who tosses their salad?

    Ballmer, obviously.

    KFG

  15. Eats their lunch? by oostevo · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    What the hell?

    I may be dating myself (as someone rather young) in saying this, but I've seriously never heard that before. Is this phrase really in common usage? It doesn't make any sense.

    --
    In soviet russia, You ask not what country do for you, but what you do for country!
    Oh wait...
    1. Re:Eats their lunch? by gnuyarlathotep · · Score: 1

      What the hell? I may be dating myself (as someone rather young) in saying this, but I've seriously never heard that before. Is this phrase really in common usage? It doesn't make any sense.

      When you "eat someone's lunch", it means you dominate them so thoroughly that you can sit down next to them at the lunch table and take their lunch and they will not even complain about it. It's way passed the "ass kicking stage", because at least in that stage the loser fought back, when you "eat their lunch" they are totally cowed.

    2. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is this phrase really in common usage?

      Yes.

      It doesn't make any sense.

      Sure it does. Just because you aren't clued in to the idiomatic meaning doesn't mean it's ready to buy the farm. Not that it's a black and white issue, mind you, but frankly I could care less.

      Keep it on the black part, dude.

      KFG

    3. Re:Eats their lunch? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You are dating yourself as something rather young. I'm a mere 29 (lest the old fogies come in and start talking about their "day") and I'm quite familiar with it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I may be dating myself

      That's pretty much a given, on Slashdot.

    5. Re:Eats their lunch? by jrockway · · Score: 1

      > but frankly I could care less.

      Wouldn't that be "but frankly I couldn't care less"? Or do you subscribe to the belief that "if everyone does something wrong, it's right"?

      --
      My other car is first.
    6. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't that be "but frankly I couldn't care less"?

      I knew that was the one that was going to draw fire.

      It's an idiom, "an expression whose meanings cannot be inferred from the meanings of the words that make it up." It doesn't mean what it literally says, just as "eat their lunch" doesn't mean that VMware is raiding the Microsoft cafeteria.

      It is a shortened version of the ironic phrase, "I suppose I could care less, but I don't know how."

      An older, less crude version of "I give a fuck," (shortened from "Do I look like I give a fuck?")and related to "Yeah, right."

      Or do you subscribe to the belief that "if everyone does something wrong, it's right"?

      I subscribe to the idea that when constructing a post out of what everyone does it would be incorrect to "correct" it, because then it wouldn't be what everyone does, would it? The whole point of the post was to use a series of phrases that do not actually mean what they say. Or do you believe that issues really have color (or literal lack thereof)?

      In any case it is hard to escape the fact that language really is just the historical accident of what everyone does, like the end results or not (and I not infrequently don't. You can get my goat by calling a Van Dyke a Goatee). If you go read the O.E.D. carefully you'll find that it does not define the English language, it records its literary history. It requires occasional revision not merely because the language grows, but because the meaning of the same words often changes.

      Because enough people do something wrong.

      KFG

    7. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your rite! -)

      BTW, -) predates all other emoticons. It only meant "tongue in cheek". Wow...that goes Waaaaayyy back!

    8. Re:Eats their lunch? by x2A · · Score: 1

      I date myself... a between you and me, I *never* hold out for the third date

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    9. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not not proving you're young, you're proving you're either not a native speaker of English or are one who's poorly educated.

    10. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1

      It is a shortened version of the ironic phrase, "I suppose I could care less, but I don't know how."

      You think? I doubt it. I think it's a lazy version of "I couldn't care less". Personally, I like "I could care less, but it's not work the effort."

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    11. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1

      but it's not work the effort

      s/work/worth/

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    12. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 1

      You think?

      Yes. That's why I said it.

      I think it's a lazy version of "I couldn't care less".

      Laziness does not tend merely to change a word. It shortens phrases into a code version of the original. When a single word changes it's usually intentional, like bad meaning good.

      Personally, I like "I could care less, but it's not work the effort."

      I could care less.

      KFG

    13. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Laziness does not tend merely to change a word.

      That's an old wise tale.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    14. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dating yourself huh? That's kinda messed up man. I don't think I'd be broadcasting that on Slashdot because it hits too close to home for all of use. Are you a lefty or a righty?

    15. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 1

      That's an old wise tale.

      That's not an example of laziness. That's an example of ignorance and substituting a familiar word.

      Viola! is a fairly common example, which actually has one more syllable than the correct word. It's antilazy.

      Ignorance changes can be identified because the word substituted sounds similar, but has an unrelated meaning, the root cause being that the speaker doesn't actually know what the word/phrase means, whereas opposites changes most often sound entirely different, the root cause being intentional irony.

      KFG

    16. Re:Eats their lunch? by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      It is a shortened version of the ironic phrase, "I suppose I could care less, but I don't know how."

      No, it's an erroneous reproduction of the older idiom "I couldn't care less". Given that it relies entirely on vocal intonation (or prior knowledge of the "meaning") to be anything but gibberish, its origin was almost certainly from mispronunciations and/or "mishearings" via regional accents - probably of the phrase originating in written material - followed by repetition.

      Incidentally, the word you're after is "sarcastic", not "ironic".

      Outside of the US, "I could care less" is seen as the nonsensical error it is and correct usage is "I couldn't care less". Even *within* the US, people with a decent English education realise the former is a perversion after it requires an explanation and sufficient linguistic/mental gymnastics to be meaningful.

      The meaning of "I couldn't care less" is quickly and easily understood, whether the phrase is heard or read. The same cannot be said for "I could care less". This is because the latter is (supposedly) a shortening of a longer phrase that requires a suitably sarcastic intonation to communicate meaning, whereas the former is coherent on its own.

    17. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 1

      No, it's an erroneous reproduction of the older idiom "I couldn't care less"

      I couldn't care less is not an idiom. It is a phrase that means what it says.

      . . .prior knowledge of the "meaning"

      Exactly. That's what defines as an idiom and why:

      Outside of the US, "I could care less" is seen as the nonsensical error it is. . .

      Because outside the US the idiom has no meaning, not having shared the cultural derivation of the phrase.

      Even *within* the US, people with a decent English education realise the former is a perversion . . .

      The whole point of sarcastic/ironic usage.

      The meaning of "I couldn't care less" is quickly and easily understood, whether the phrase is heard or read. The same cannot be said for "I could care less".

      Because it requires the specialized knowledge that is required to understand any and all idioms, like "keep it on the black part," which actually means "take care of yourself."

      This is because the latter is (supposedly) a shortening of a longer phrase that requires a suitably sarcastic intonation to communicate meaning, whereas the former is coherent on its own.

      Well, we certainly won't allow any phrases to come into spoken use that can be misunderstood in print because of the lack of inflection. That would be wrong. Right.

      Incidentally, the word you're after is "sarcastic", not "ironic".

      ironic

      adj 1: humorously sarcastic or mocking; "dry humor"; "an ironic remark often conveys an intended meaning obliquely"

      KFG

    18. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1

      That's not an example of laziness. That's an example of ignorance and substituting a familiar word.

      You call it ignorance, I called it laziness, I posit that there are elements of both involved.

      Given the frequency with which I've seen the longer, ironic "could care less" phrase you mentioned (or other variants), I think it's far more likely that "could care less" arose from misunderstanding of "couldn't care less" than your explanation.

      The "viola" case is an interesting one, since it's obvious not a misheard version of "voila" -- unlike the other common version "walla". I suspect "viola" arose from misreading the word, not mishearing. Or else it started as an intentional mispronunciation which was then picked up by people who didn't get the joke.

      The importance of these issues cannot be underestimated.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    19. Re:Eats their lunch? by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      If you go read the O.E.D. carefully you'll find that it does not define the English language, it records its literary history. It requires occasional revision not merely because the language grows, but because the meaning of the same words often changes.

      That's a rather cute* insight.

      *"Cute" (adj) "Ugly but interesting" (OED)

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    20. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 1

      You call it ignorance, I called it laziness

      In the sense that they didn't bother to research the phrase, yes. In sense that phrases get forshortened in speach (perhaps being turned into an acronym like radar), no. Or words get forshortened in typing, like ls.

      misunderstanding of "couldn't care less"

      Find me a native speaker who can actually misunderstand the phrase "couldn't care less." Even in East Bumfuck.

      The "viola" case is an interesting one, since it's obvious not a misheard version of "voila" -- unlike the other common version "walla". I suspect "viola" arose from misreading the word, not mishearing.

      Here I agree you are correct and I was sloppy. You might call it laziness. I would call it fucked up. An idiom. It doesn't really mean that I was having sexual intercourse in the positive direction of the normal axis to the tangent of the Earth's surface.

      KFG

    21. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1

      Find me a native speaker who can actually misunderstand the phrase "couldn't care less."

      I don't have to, because I can find you a hundred million native speakers who don't enunciate clearly. Maybe two hundred million. Very few bother with the "t" in "couldn't", particularly when followed by the hard "c", and either the "n" or the "d" gets short shrift, particularly when the context makes the negation clear or when the use of a common phrase makes its presence irrelevant because the meaning will be clear irregardless.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    22. Re:Eats their lunch? by kfg · · Score: 1

      irregardless.

      Laziness.

      KFG

    23. Re:Eats their lunch? by QJimbo · · Score: 1

      I may be dating myself

      Don't worry, I think the majority of the slashdot crowd date themselves.

    24. Re:Eats their lunch? by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      To help end this war I suggest we drop both phrases and start using "I don't fucking care".

      No, on second thoughts forget it. Before you know, people will start saying "I fucking care" when they mean they don't.

      When it comes down to it I'm fucked if anybody cares.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    25. Re:Eats their lunch? by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Not in the age of the internet. Nowadays every geeks has dozens of dates and their names all end in ".jpg".

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    26. Re:Eats their lunch? by swillden · · Score: 1
      irregardless.

      Laziness.

      Not my laziness. Just a different tact.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    27. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phrase about eating someone else's lunch is one I often hear in Chinese. That may or may not be the origin of it's use in English, but I have heard it a number of times in English too.

    28. Re:Eats their lunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now ewe guise are jest been sealy

  16. Running Windows in VMware by KiloByte · · Score: 1

    Well, but if you try to run Windows in VMware, you can expect a result like this.

    (Just joking... VMware is pretty much the only way to reliably test an installer for win32. Plus, anything that would force someone to reactivate Windoze every single time a new debug build of your software's installer gets run can go to hell.)

    --
    The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
  17. Scarified... by TheIndifferentiate · · Score: 1

    MS is scared that if they don't have some kind of player in every software niche that one of them will take off wildly without them. Plus whether their player is any good or not doesn't matter. There are enough MS groupies out there who'll buy anything they put out that they can't lose.

  18. What they're thinking by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1
    If I had to guess, it's a new sort of semi-vaporware thing they do. Any tech that gets a bit of buzz, they're more or less compelled to announce "we'll be doing that to, in fact we've got a product in the pipeline already." Never mind that their product is too little and too late. Windows users get a cozy feeling from not having to deal with (what they perceive as) "fringe" companies like EMC.

    It started with firefox, as I remember it. They ignored it and figured it would go away, then had to shift gears just so it didn't appear that they were sitting around. Microsoft: on the cutting edge of a couple of years ago, as one magazine put it.

    --
    My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    1. Re:What they're thinking by Locutus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      naaa, they got VirtualPC because the process and memory virtualization in their operating system is so bad that a crashing application can take out the OS and when THAT happens, it also takes out all the other programs/processes/services running. Enter VirtualPC and now, Microsoft can still sell a bunch of copies of Windows to you but now, you run a copy of Windows in a virtual machine running just one server/service. Duplicate that for failover and repeat the process for all the other server/services you want to provide your customers/users.

      Now, Windows competes with UNIX and Linux in that one boxen can run many server/services and have good uptime. You'll have to throw about 4x the hardware resources at the Microsoft solution because of the overhead Windows puts in each VM but Dell, HP, etc like selling bigger servers and Microsoft likes selling all those product licenses for the redundent VMs and licenses for Windows in ever VM.

      One of the few times Microsoft actually NEEDS what they're purchasing.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  19. just marketing hoopla by mozkill · · Score: 0, Redundant

    comon, this is just a bunch of marketing hoopla to promote sales of the new version of their software. the only reason we are seeing this article is because someone paid marketing to write a story. its all about sales. there is no new news here. move along. nothing to see here.

    --

    -- Betting on the survival of the media industry is a serious risk. I advise investing elsewhere.
  20. Microsoft Style by pete-classic · · Score: 1

    They've even got the style down.

    I have a VMWare installation that works perfectly. Every time I start VMWare it bugs me that there is a newer version. I went ahead and said okay to that message. It went ahead and upgraded me to the new version. That I don't have a license for. So I get to uninstall the new version and reinstall (and re-license) the old version. It immediately starts bugging me to upgrade.

    A-N-N-O-Y-I-N-G.

    Annoy the customer into spending good money on new versions they don't need. If that's not the Microsoft way I don't know what is.

    -Peter

    1. Re:Microsoft Style by enosys · · Score: 3, Informative

      Can't you disable those checks somewhere, like maybe Edit -> Preferences -> Workspace -> Software updates?

  21. VMware Server aka VMware GSX Server by rmallico · · Score: 1

    VMware Server that is in Beta/RC candidate WAS VMware GSX Server a short while ago and that was a production ready solution....

    --
    sig goes here!
  22. feminazi by mnemonic_ · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Sorry, I don't like feminazis.

  23. I have no real comment by bunions · · Score: 4, Funny

    Just wanted to say that I was giddy with glee to find that this article was tagged 'lunch'

    --
    there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
  24. Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by rmckeethen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Over the last year or so, I've heard a lot of people in the industry talk about how VMware is fighting a losing battle against Microsoft in the server virtualization market. Really though, I don't see Microsoft beating VMware anytime soon. Here's why:

    First, I don't think anyone in their right mind is ever going to truely believe that Microsoft can be entirely agnostic when it comes to what OS you run in a virtualization layer. I just can't see the Linux crowd ever fully buying into the notion that Microsoft will support Linux as a virtual server with the same zealous dedication as they'll support virtualization of Windows servers. We've all seen too many instances in the past where Microsoft has teaked some application to take advantage of their inside knowledge of Windows, at the expense of some other vender's application or operating system. I can't imagine, given this track record, that Microsoft will continue to resist the temptation to shaft everyone else in the virtualization market, ensuring that Windows continues to dominate. This idea alone will seriously retard Microsoft's ability to compete with VMware. I doubt that anyone at VMware really gives a rat's ass what you run in ESX server; Microsoft, on the other hand, will never be able to make the same claim.

    Additionally, as I see it, there's also little advantage for Microsoft to expand the number of operating systems they support under their own virtualization layer. Every time they add support for an additional OS running in the virtualization layer, it gives their current customers more choices to run some other operating system that *isn't* Windows. Sooner or later, someone on the Windows server sales team is going to figure that out, potentially putting preasure on the virtualization team to do a half-assed job with anything that doesn't sport a Microsoft logo. Ultimately, I predict that this is going to ensure that Microsoft's virtual server offerings will be the most limited in the market. VMware, of course, won't be bound by the same demands. Every time they expand support for additional operating systems, it makes their products that much more attractive to buyers.

    Finally, I suspect that Microsoft will decide at some point in the future that what they really want to do is to build virtualization into the Windows operating system itself. This is the only strategy that makes sense in the long-term. It keeps customers buying Windows while answering the need for server consolidation/management that virtualization brings to the table. In the end, it will put distance between what Microsoft offers and what VMware offers, leaving the independant OS virtualization market squarely in the hands of VMware.

    1. Re:Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      microsoft will build this into longhorn server. its called hypervisor. the virtualization is in the os. bye bye vmware.

    2. Re:Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by x2A · · Score: 1

      Actually I think for another reason... Linux makes a better host. When colocating servers running Windows, I will *only* do so with the Windows machine running virtually on a Linux host. How else can you fix things when it goes wrong? Trust the employees at the datacenter? No, you connect to the outer system and do things yourself.

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
    3. Re:Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by BlueLightning · · Score: 1

      microsoft will build this into longhorn server. its called hypervisor. the virtualization is in the os. bye bye vmware.

      Not really. Sure, it'll give you similar capabilities to VMware Workstation or Server, but I'd be surprised if they were able to provide the same level of VM infrastructure capabilities as VMware ESX Server has or even management tools that are as good as Workstation. It remains to be seen whether they can even offer the same level of performance, too.

      Don't forget that AMD and Intel are building virtualisation capabilities into their next line of CPUs. That will be much more of a shakeup.

    4. Re:Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by simscitizen · · Score: 1

      This is about ESX server, right? There is no "host" OS in ESX server, you're running on top of a VMWare proprietary kernel.

    5. Re:Microsoft Won't Control *This* Market by x2A · · Score: 1

      I was on about vmware server, but esx I thought just ran on a modified linux (redhat based, anyone?)

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  25. MSVSR2 doesn't support Linux as MS says it does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Recently, I was chosen to give a dog and pony show of MSVS R2. I've used VMWare for years and thought it would be good to 're-discover' something from Connectix, er, Microsoft. (I used VPC for Mac back in the v2 days).

    While testing, I noticed some serious flaws using MSVS-R2 on Win2003R2:
    -Absolutely no 64 bit host support. Even after I installed the 64 bit versions of 2003 Server R2 and MSVS R2.
    -Several attempts to install Linux guests failed 100% of the time. Tried Suse 9.1 and 9.3, and Fedora 4 and 5. The CD would spin at about the 1% installed mark, and stay there for infinity. Thinking the DVD drive (on the brand new Optiplex GX620) was having issues, I plugged in an external DVD drive. Problem is, the problem happened again at the same place. Took the disks out, headed to my VMWare Server, installed SuSE 9.3 in about 55 minutes.
    -The Remote console feature relies on port 5900. Yep, VNC based.
    -The web control panel lacks the easy to use VMWare interface.

    What is good about the product is that it's FREE! But, my research proves that you get what you pay for.

    I'm sticking with VMWare for the forseeable future. It's saved me at least $25,000 in my department alone over the last 3 years. It only makes sense to stick with a winning solution.

    And couple that with an article I read over at Network World, that the latest beta of Longhorn server, still does not have the Hypervisor technology for users to test. AND this won't be released until at LEAST the end of 2007. People need solutions now, not 2 years from now.

    VMWare is doing a lot of right things, I applaud them.

    1. Re:MSVSR2 doesn't support Linux as MS says it does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oops...I should have proofed it better, should read...

      " -Absolutely no 64 bit GUEST support... "

  26. Tagging system by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Come on guys. Seriously. "Lunch"? Tagging was supposed to use humans to actually process what's important. Somehow I can't believe that slashdotters have coded a broken AI to tag articles for them.

    "Lunch"? This article has anything to do with "lunch"? Give me a break.

    1. Re:Tagging system by bunions · · Score: 1
      Tagging was supposed to use humans to actually process what's important

      At the beginning, I thought tagging might have been useful, but 90% of the tags are simply words from the articles title or category, along with one or more of: [stupid | evil | smart | haha]. Frequently all four.

      Since this has come to pass, I have adjusted my attitude to find humor in the tagging system. Come on. Lunch. It's funny.

      --
      there is no need to sign your posts. this isn't usenet. your username is right there above your post. stop it.
    2. Re:Tagging system by x2A · · Score: 1

      "This article has anything to do with "lunch"? Give me a break"

      what... like... a lunch break?

      (it's 4am!)

      --
      The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
  27. microsoft needs to open up a little... by RickBauls · · Score: 1

    It's nice to see that Microsofts whole "Its not ours, we don't profit from we why should we acknowledge it's existence" attitude is really starting to hurt it more than ever. I can't use msn's video because I don't/can't have Internet explorer, and on the virtualization side, I'm sure a big reason it isn't taking off is because it won't install to Linux or BSD. Most people that are interested in virtualization, as far as I know, are Linux and BSD users wanting to run Windows. If Microsoft had a virtual environment ported to Linux or BSD, I would try it. Maybe I would use it... but probably not. It would at least grab my attention.

  28. Surely this is simply due to Linux? by TheRealDamion · · Score: 1

    VMWare will run on Linux permitting multiple Linux, Windows, etc Virtual Machines. MS Virtual Server only runs on Windows and although it can then run a Linux virtual machine, I don't really see people doing that.

    1. Re:Surely this is simply due to Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are some things to clarify here.

      VMWare's ESX Server does not run on Linux. It uses a proprietary kernel that runs along side a "service console" which is a modified version of RH Linux.

      BTW - I am a VCP (VMWare Certified Professional) and have been using VMWare products for years.

      ~Jack sysadmin paradise

  29. VMware for personal use by blackest_k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I like VMware I really do,
    It's letting me get rid of windows as my primary OS, instead now I can use ubuntu as default and only run windows when I haven't a convenient alternative.

    Maybe some of the VMware people reading here could answer a few questions?

    1) any plans to make a .deb installation package instead of tar.gz or rpm (admittedly tar.gz works ok in ubuntu I just wonder what its done to my package management).

    2)Are there any plans to improve support for OSX in a virtual machine, (graphically it's a bit sluggish compared to native on the same hardware) on the otherhand adding a network controller to the VM as NAT gave network access to OSX as a wired network card (even though it was wireless in reality :)

    3) any chance of VMware workstation being made freely available for a single vm or some other limited use.
    I wouldn't want to see VMware cut its own throat but it seems the money for them is in commercial servers not an individual trying to break thier windows habit.

    4)which is quicker windows in a vm hosted on windows or windows in a vm hosted on linux?

    ubuntu and VMware make a great combination, it's something that should be tried by any windows user, who wants to escape the limitations of windows but needs windows compatability (at least initially) although ubuntu and remote desktop is another working alternative (video is slow thou).

    Anyway to any of the VMWare team reading this you guys rock.

    1. Re:VMware for personal use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apt-get install vmware-player

      If you have dapper, you're good to go.

    2. Re:VMware for personal use by killjoe · · Score: 1

      I loaded up puppy linux the other day and it only consumed 140K or RAM. I was thinking that it might be good run puppy as a host to VMware and run all your OSes inside VMware.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    3. Re:VMware for personal use by Wordplay · · Score: 2, Informative

      ObDisc: I work for VMware, but I don't speak for them in any way, shape, or form. This is a highly unofficial reply.

      1) Couldn't get an answer for any .deb plans, but the Player is packaged for Debian (Multiverse).

      2) No plans that I know of. I believe the Apple EULA for OS X requires it to be installed on Mac hardware.

      3) That would be the purpose of VMware Player. You might also check out VMware Server, which is more versatile.

      4) The latter, Windows hosted on Linux.

    4. Re:VMware for personal use by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      Bleagh. Should've previewed. Of course, I meant Ubuntu (Multiverse) in #1.

    5. Re:VMware for personal use by suckmysav · · Score: 1

      "1) any plans to make a .deb installation package instead of tar.gz or rpm (admittedly tar.gz works ok in ubuntu I just wonder what its done to my package management)."

      Have you tried using "alien --to-deb" to convert the RPM so you can then install it as a package? I haven't tried this for vmware, but I have tried it for other binary RPM packages and it has worked every time AFAIR.

      --
      "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
    6. Re:VMware for personal use by NullProg · · Score: 1

      ObDisc: I work for VMware, but I don't speak for them in any way, shape, or form. This is a highly unofficial reply.

      Keep up the good work. I finally convinced the boss I would be more productive if I didn't have to spend three minutes rebooting into Windows/Linux (I'm a embedded Wince/Linux programmer). I went down to CompUSA to purchase a copy of VMWare and its not on the shelf anymore. It used to be.

      The brain dead associate (called employee in more traditional times), had no idea why they didn't have VMWare or what it was. My question. Was compUSA out of stock, or did you stop selling retail?

      Thanks,

      --
      It's just the normal noises in here.
    7. Re:VMware for personal use by Wordplay · · Score: 1

      You know, I'm honestly not sure. I don't see it listed on CompUSA or Fry's/Outpost. Amusingly, Walmart lists Workstation v5.0, but it's Out of Stock. :)

      You can buy directly from VMware at VMware Workstation in the VMware Store (including a downloadable get-it-now version). Also, there's a reseller search engine. Running it for my immediate area didn't turn up any big-name stores.

    8. Re:VMware for personal use by univgeek · · Score: 2, Informative

      For making sure the vmware .tgz doesn't screw with the package management use checkinstall - at the very least you'll have the record of what files are installed and you can do a clean uninstall.

      sudo apt-get install checkinstall

      cd vmware
      checkinstall install

      --
      All bow to his Noodliness!! His Noodle Appendage has touched me!
  30. VMware is leagues ahead of Virtual Server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While VMware GSX Server is certainly a better product, it's ESX Server (with its addons) that is in a completely different league to anything Microsoft offers. Further, now that VMware has released VM Infrastructure 3, Microsoft just got smacked down. Hard. Each VM can now use up to 4 CPUs and 16GB RAM. As far as performance goes, on average, you will get 6-8 VMs running per physical CPU core, although you should outfit each server with twice as much RAM as you expect it's workload to require.

    Most techs are now familiar with basic single-box virtualisation, but aren't familiar with the virtual infrastructure offerings. It's here that VMware is truly revolutionising the commodity x86 server space. Without the VM Infrastructure concept, but using virtualisation you're effectively trading off reliability for utilisation efficiency. With VM Infrastructure you're gaining both. Let me explain.

    Picture this: hundreds of VMs scattered around dozens of physical servers. Under VM Infrastructure, any time a given server's resources start to struggle with the load, the VMware software automatically and seamlessly migrates some of the VMs to another server that has resources to spare. When local server diagnostics identify that a critical piece of hardware is on the way out, all VMs are automatically and seamlessly shifted to other available servers. All this while allowing you to specify per-server policies on minimum and maximum resources (CPUs, CPU time, RAM, storage capacity, disk I/O, network bandwidth, network I/O, etc). This is possible because VMs interact with virtual hardware devices rather than the underlying hardware. This means you can most a running instance from one physical server to another and there are no hardware differences visible to the guest OS.

    Basically, you not only ensure that you don't have idle servers sitting around, but you actually increase your availability by mitigating hardware failures and levelling resources throughout your pool of servers when load for given VMs increases.

    This works by having all storage on a SAN. This means you don't have wasted disk sitting at individual servers. It also makes your storage subsystem extremely reliable and scalable while simultaneously amortising it's cost across multiple servers. The cost of storage goes down on a per-server basis while the reliability of your storage goes up. It also means your individual servers can have a smaller form-factor as you don't need any disk space on nodes save what's required to boot the virtualisation layer.

    Using VMs can make backups much, much cheaper to implement. VMs are just files waiting to be copied to media.

    If you don't think that's enough (it was for me!), think of how much easier and cheaper disaster recovery becomes. You just need to replicate SAN-to-SAN and your entire server pool is effectively mirrored offsite. In the event of disaster you can simply disable all non-critical VMs (e.g. DEV, TEST, UAT and low-priority PROD), so you don't need to mirror your (now smaller) server pool at the backup site, just enough to bring up the critical production services. In the event of a disaster you've always got the option of then buying additional servers to host non-critical VMs as time permits. Since it's a SAN that's required for storage, if you're not too concerned about non-critical VMs, you can simply keep them on a separate LUN to the critical ones and not replicate that. In the event of a disaster, you can order more disks, and in the meantime you save on SAN-to-SAN replication traffic costs and bandwidth.

    Finally, and this is a key selling point to infrastructure staff and customers alike, a SAN-based virtual infrastructure allows extremely rapid deployment of new servers. Let's say a project manager contacts the service desk with a request to provision two new environments (TEST and UAT) for a new development project, each with a webserver, an application server and a database server. The service desk sources the software licenses (either from a pool of spares or

    1. Re:VMware is leagues ahead of Virtual Server by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll add
      VMs are not dependent on the same physical hardware of the server. You can have a mixture of Dells, HP, homebrew ect. Provided ESX will run on that hardware, your individual VMs will "see" the same hardware regardless of what the host actually has. Servers leased and due back? Your new servers can host all of your VMs without a single configuration change to the VMs OS and can even be moved over to the new servers without even shutting down.

    2. Re:VMware is leagues ahead of Virtual Server by Ken+Hall · · Score: 1

      Were you, by any chance, at the same EMC forum session I was in NY on 6/6? You sound just like the presenter there..

  31. MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    "They understand that someday they will have to ditch the entire spaghetti code base that is Windows(TM)."

    I'm sure that MS's competitors (including OSS) look forward to that day. On the other hand, the idea of MS's formidable programmers writing brand-new code without the legacy of the 8088 PC platform and years of legacy applications to deal with should scare the crap out of their competitors. They've been fighting with their left hand for years.

    1. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by smash · · Score: 1
      Whilst it would be nice to be free of the 8086 legacy... i think you'll find that large portions of the totally CRAP code coming out of microsoft in recent years have nothing to do with legacy code, and lots to do with poor design/implementation of current code.

      These same coders starting from scratch? I reckon Windows 2000 would still be far more reliable.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
    2. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, the idea of MS's formidable programmers writing brand-new code without the legacy of the 8088 PC platform and years of legacy applications to deal with should scare the crap out of their competitors.

      Bwahahahaha... [choking laughter to the point of near suffocation]

      Microsoft has some great programmers, but they also have a lot of extraordinarily poor programmers. They're hardly hobbled by the "legacy" 8088 PC platform (honestly, what a load of shit that is. Do you have any idea how rich, and simple, modern x86 is? Just because something has a long history in no way implies that it's venerable). Maintaining backwards compatibility is a bitch, but it's a huge headstart on someone starting from scratch (you do know about the great Longhorn reset, right? Turns out that trying to do it "from scratch" often isn't as good as it sounds in theory).

      And, as touched upon, the idea that starting from scratch is a desirable position is usually the foolish mistake of beginners. Most people starting from scratch just make the same, or similar, mistakes, without the advantage of launching off of prior work.

    3. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "..but they also have a lot of extraordinarily poor programmers."

      That's exactly the myth that my post was intended to provoke. Thanks for falling for it.

      "Do you have any idea how rich, and simple, modern x86 is?"

      How did we get from the 8088 to the "modern x86"? The 8088 and 8086 have far more in common with the 8 bit 8080 than they do with Intel's current processors. Here's a homework assignment: try porting the Linux kernel to an 8088 PC platform. It should be easy since you believe the 8088 to be so "rich and simple". I'll make it easier: You can use the full 1MB address space of the 8088.

      "And, as touched upon, the idea that starting from scratch is a desirable position is usually the foolish mistake of beginners. Most people starting from scratch just make the same, or similar, mistakes, without the advantage of launching off of prior work."

      Actually an OS like DOS doesn't represent a mistake. It was an appropriate OS for the limitations of early PC's. Maintaning compatiblity over the years was a great business decision even if it made code ugly.

      But mistake or not, It's rather silly to suggest, that MS (or anyone else) would design the same thing today as they did in 1981, or make the same mistakes.

    4. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      You're referring to the crap code you've never read? Which MS applications are you referring to that don't have to deal with legacy issues?

    5. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      That's exactly the myth that my post was intended to provoke. Thanks for falling for it.

      What sort of idiotic comment is that? Are you disagreeing with even the thought that Microsoft has some poor programmers? Grow up.

      How did we get from the 8088 to the "modern x86"? The 8088 and 8086 have far more in common with the 8 bit 8080 than they do with Intel's current processors.

      Your claim was that Microsoft was constrained and limited by the "legacy of the 8088 platform". Carry your own argument forward, moron.

      Go troll MySpace personas or something.

    6. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 0

      "What sort of idiotic comment is that? Are you disagreeing with even the thought that Microsoft has some poor programmers? Grow up."

      How did we get from "a lot of extraordinarily poor programmers" to "some poor programmers".

      "Your claim was that Microsoft was constrained and limited by the "legacy of the 8088 platform". Carry your own argument forward, moron."

      I have no idea what you mean.

      "Go troll MySpace personas or something."

      Sorry but I'm too out of touch to understand the insult. What is MySpace?

    7. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      Sorry, MS already has had a shot at rewriting everything from scratch, and that was Windows NT. It was OK for a while as a server O/S, even supporting multiple platform, until MS in their wisdom decided to make it do too many things (like games), and now we have WinXP Home edition. I bet that if Microsoft were redoing yet another New NT, they would fall on their own sword the same way they already have.

      That is, unless the culture at MS changes radically. The one that gives lip service to safety and security, privileges short term optimisation to maximise profit, etc.

    8. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ergo98 · · Score: 1

      How did we get from "a lot of extraordinarily poor programmers" to "some poor programmers".

      Microsoft has (tens of) thousands of software developers. Yes, they have a lot of extremely poor programmers. There are quite a few products out of Microosft that are pure garbage. There are also some great products, but that wasn't my point.

      I have no idea what you mean.

      You claim that Microsoft is hobbled by the "8088 legacy" (ignoring the fact that the NT line of software carries virtually no legacy from the DOS days), which would only make sense if they were a) still writing software for the 8088 (which of course they aren't), b) modern x86 shares the similar problems. Of course the latter is only laughably true, and modern x86 is extremely rich and full featured.

      I think you quest to fall over yourself in praise of Microsoft has led you to confuse yourself.

    9. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft has (tens of) thousands of software developers. Yes, they have a lot of extremely poor programmers."

      Well, if what you originally intended to say is that MS has a lot of extremely poor programmers simply because they have a lot of programmers, that's at least plausible. It would be equally plausible to argue that MS has a lot of extremely good programmers for exactly the same reason. What I don't find plausible is the idea that MS has a far greater percentage of extremely poor programmers than everybody else.

      "You claim that Microsoft is hobbled by the "8088 legacy" (ignoring the fact that the NT line of software carries virtually no legacy from the DOS days), which would only make sense if they were a) still writing software for the 8088 (which of course they aren't), b) modern x86 shares the similar problems. Of course the latter is only laughably true, and modern x86 is extremely rich and full featured"

      The fact that MS doesn't program for the 8088 anymore or that the NT line of software doesn't have a single line of real mode code doesn't mean that the legacy of the 8088 era (and the eras in between then and now) isn't a factor. Legacy code written by third parties that customers use must still be able to run (in most cases).

      Keep in mind the UNIX was created at a time that teletypes or dumb terminals were state of the art and a CLI command shell was the best interface you could use at that time. Today we don't use use teletypes or dumb terminals (for the most part) yet Linux would not have been successful if the command shell had been eliminated because all the legacy utilities that users had been accostumed to wouldn't work. This despite the fact that no legacy code was used to create Linux.

      So legacy issues are a bit more complicated than you imagine.

    10. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      As I said in another post, the mere fact that NT doesn't contain legacy code doesn't mean it doesn't have legacy issues to contend with. Did you throw away all your legacy applications when upgrading from Win9x to NT?

      My orginal point was that if MS had to give up the ability to be compatible with legacy applications they could produce a much better OS.

    11. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      When Microsoft produced the first working version of NT, NT 3.1, which had a proper 32-bit kernel, it wasn't compatible with plain-Jane Win3.1, which was still DOS-based. Even less so if you chose to run it on PPC or Alpha, which you could. So yes, if you wanted to run it you had to toss away any and all DOS/Win3.1 applications. You had to buy the basics anew. NT3.1 had great reviews, but few bought it.

      Later Microsoft produced NT3.5 and NT4.0 which proceeded to cut down on the number of supported platform. I'm pretty sure NT4.0SP6 was only released for x86 for instance, and they also added more hacks and backward compatibility layers.

      My point was that Microsoft already has had a chance to produce an unencumbered O/S. They've actually done it, only to encumber it again shortly thereafter. My guess is that Microsoft could do it again, but that they would repeat their past behaviour, because it wouldn't sell.

    12. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

      "So yes, if you wanted to run it you had to toss away any and all DOS/Win3.1 applications. You had to buy the basics anew."

      I hate to mess up your theory, but you're completely wrong. Many DOS and Win3.1 applications ran without problems on NT 3.1. Some even ran on the Alpha version.

      Windows NT 3.1 includes a Virtual Dos Machine (VDM) that allows DOS programs to run. Within the VDM there is layer called Windows on Win32 (WOW) that allows 16-bit Windows applications to run.

      So legacy issues have been a consideration in every Windows version including NT 3.1.

    13. Re:MS isn't left-handed either by smash · · Score: 1
      Internet explorer, outlook express, Office, universal PnP, the SMB protocol, SMS server 2003...

      I'm referring to "crap" code that I've never read, but have had to deal with the bugs/interface inconsistancies in.

      My point is that the vast number of security vulnerabilities and bugs in the current version(s) of Windows are not all to do with legacy code.

      --
      I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
  32. Virtualization Meme - VMWare vs Microsoft by broward · · Score: 1

    This memegraph shows a rapid increase in interest in virtualization since mid-2005 -

    http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entry =virtualization_meme

    Here's how VMWare and Microsoft stand in that increased interest.
    VMWare shows a mild upturn while Microsoft shows a mild downturn.

    http://www.realmeme.com/roller/page/realmeme?entry =virtualization_meme_ver_3_0

  33. Paralles does not compare to VMware by Bishop · · Score: 1

    Parallels is not in the same league as VMware. The Parallels Workstation/Desktop product is similar to on old version of VMware workstation. More importantly Parallels dosen't have any products for servers. VMware has two powerfull server products and software to properly manage it all.

    1. Re:Paralles does not compare to VMware by misleb · · Score: 1

      And it is too bad, really. I would kill for a good OS X server (PowerPC) virtualization product. I've got a bunch of G4 towers running specialized services that are mostly idle. I know Parallels has workstation for Intel Macs, but thats just not very useful.

      -matthew

      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
  34. Re:Oh yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously neither of you know what a "tossed salad" is...and you may not want to know!

  35. please don't whip me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I loaded a demo install of UnixWare 7 using VMware server running under RedHat Enterprise 4 today. It works but I can't stop washing my hands.

    Forgive me. I did it to support a client with an old system experiencing serious problems..

  36. Virtualpc by wclacy · · Score: 1

    Back when Microsoft purchased virtualPc I thought it was in many ways a superior product to vmware. Now that Microsoft decided to remove some of the best features and change the program to fit their way of doing things. It has given VMWare time to catch in some of the areas it was behind and become much better than Virtual PC in other areas.

    1. Re:Virtualpc by Andy75 · · Score: 1

      I use VMWare because of limitations in VirtualPC, but I heard some insightful and exciting things by Microsoft on DotNetRocks which made me think. Yes, it is pro-Microsoft, but it was candid in saying that the next versions of Virtual Server will not be available until late 2007. I'm really happy just to use VMWare for now, and if Microsoft really do deliver next year I'm really open to take a look.

  37. Re:Oh yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Their customers do.

  38. So that's what kids call it these days? by edunbar93 · · Score: 2, Funny

    When one company yoinks business right out from under another company's nose, then the latter company is losing.

    Unless it's Microsoft. That's not called "Eating Microsoft's lunch". That's called "doing Microsoft's research for them".

    --
    "No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
  39. Urrrp! by obnoxiousbastard · · Score: 1

    The problem with eating Microsoft's lunch is that it often leads to indigestion or worse.

    They have a record of buying out smaller companies that build a better mouse trap. If that doesn't work, they'll hire a bunch of programmers and grind out a product that is almost as good and then release a new operating system that excludes the competetion.

    When you are competing with a large, hungry predator, then it's not a good idea to arouse their ire.

    --
    Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
    1. Re:Urrrp! by virtualtodd · · Score: 1

      VMware is owned by a large hungry predator, EMC.

  40. Already are building support into the OS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Longhorn server will have a virtualization layer built-in, with hypervisor and all. It is pretty neat, actually. The hypervisor binary was arund 40K last time I talked with someone from the dev team (~2? months ago).
    It'll only work on x64, not on IA64 or x86, though.

  41. Two problems with VMWare. by fishbowl · · Score: 1

    First, I love VMWare. Been a user since the first release.

    But it has a couple of problems. One problem is that it is not effective for audio software, neither for synthesis programs nor for low-latency recording. I realize this isn't the main purpose of VMWare, but it is my primary application for Windows. I understand the problems, especially with things like ASIO drivers that need to be down to the metal, but I still think it would be nice to have a low-latency audio interface, and really high performance usb2.0 and fireware connectivity. Others have itches to scratch in 3-D graphics and such, but music production is mine.

    The other big problem is economic. In order to use WindowsXP or anything else with WPA, I need a separate licence for the instance under VMWare (different for EACH VM!), and another licence for the WindowsXP instance in the dual boot. This is an unreasonable restriction, in my opinion.

    --
    -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    1. Re:Two problems with VMWare. by demon · · Score: 1

      One problem is that it is not effective for audio software, neither for synthesis programs nor for low-latency recording. I realize this isn't the main purpose of VMWare, but it is my primary application for Windows.

      I don't see anyone else going after it; also, it's a very *very* narrow sector of potential use. It's not like it's going to get VMware a lot more sales. And really, given VMware's primary aim, it's not really that interesting to work on. It's not that it can't be done, but the difficulty curve is steep enough that it's not worth doing. 3D graphics for guest OSes is a feature that's apparently partially implemented, but also has a steep difficulty curve, and a narrow target market.

      The other big problem is economic. In order to use WindowsXP or anything else with WPA, I need a separate licence for the instance under VMWare (different for EACH VM!), and another licence for the WindowsXP instance in the dual boot. This is an unreasonable restriction, in my opinion.

      Not VMware's fault; that's the way Microsoft's OSes are licensed. Don't beat on the messenger here. You have to, if I'm not mistaken, do the same with MS Virtual Server, so this is not VMware specific at all.

      --

      Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
      Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
    2. Re:Two problems with VMWare. by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      I understand, but those are still the things that keep me with dedicated windows machines and also keep me dual booting for XP and the reason I run Windows 2000. As an IT geek myself, I understand the issues fully, but as a *user* I still feel justified to complain.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    3. Re:Two problems with VMWare. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, these don't seem like big problems to me, however a real limitation for example is that you can only use up to 4 Network interface.

      I was told by VMWare that they would improved this situation; but nothing happened so far. I'm pretty much convinced that this is a stupid #define somewhere in the code and they want to use it for marketing reasons. How difficult can it be to add support for a fifth NIC when you already have code in place for four?

      This is sometimes a major show stopper in our verification, testing and pilot phase for customers. We occasionally ship servers with 16+ NICs. Other than that, VMWare is a blessing! Especially the Snapshot feature including the Snapshot Manager are invaluable tools when doing software development and testing.

  42. Re:is slashdot broken? by Duhavid · · Score: 1

    Slashdot is the same as it ever was.

    I think someone messed up your last eye firmware upgrade.

    --
    emt 377 emt 4
  43. People do not seem to understand... by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    People do not seem to understand...

    Just as this article and all the anti-MS trolling in here demonstrates, people really just don't get it.

    VMWare is not a 'competitor' to MS in the traditional sense, in fact the two products have a vastly different target base and vastly different lineage.

    The MS technology is this, a way for Server Administrators to consolidate servers and outdated OS and technology on to new hardware. Specifically MS's newer Server technologies. PERIOD.

    VMWare has a vastly different Market as it is used more in testing environments and also in the non server industry more than the Microsoft product.

    Sure, they both hit on a common thread, but that doesn't give one a superior mark over the other in areas they are not designed to for.

    Let's be realistic, a large portion of the VMWare market is running Hosts on non-Microsoft OSes. MS's Virtual Server is a Host on a single OS.

    VMWare is a cross platform tool that will 'eat MS's lunch', especially in the *nix markets.

    But what MS VS does is allow companies to take older NT4,Win2k, and even *nix OS that all ran fine on 1Ghz systems and drop them onto a new 4Ghz 64bit Server running Windows 2003 or Longhorn Server.

    MS is only a corporate product in this respect, it is also going to run the MS OSes in the clients a bit faster, it is also going to Host a bit faster as it is designed specifically for these target OS platforms. MS also has invested heavily in Network performance from the clients, and Dropping an existing Win2K server on a new Win2003 Server in a VS environment will still meet the speed and needs that the original server provided, yet give companies a path to move up to Win2003 server in smaller increments.

    Ok, I think we all should pretty much know that. But here is where VS wins in the Server Market. It not only allows Companies to migrate and upgrade their servers to the new MS OS more frequently, but will allow these same companies that have invested in a *nix to move that *nix over to the Win2003 platform during the transistion. So even if MS VS isn't the best VM technology in the world, it is good enough that companies will use it and MS will leverage it for 'Virtual Hosting' in the future all the way to increasing market share for Windows 2003 Server, which is where VS wins, even if not for itself directly.

    We all remember the shift to Virtual Hosting of HTTP servers and IIS was a big push of this as it made this transition for companies very easy. Now imagine the next shift where people can get full server Virtual Hosting and the Hosting company only has to provide one Decked out server running serveral copies of whatever OS the clients want. Yes this is already starting to become an industry move, but with the new virtualization in hardware and supporting software technologies included on the server for free with 'leaner' licensing, MS will push the Windows Server Platform into this market as an 'enclosed' solution to meet these needs.

    1. Re:People do not seem to understand... by InsaneGeek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually what you don't seem to understand is support leggacy proucts and consolidation that's been one of the big selling point for VMware for longer than MS has had their product out. They even have been selling a product specifically for that process to make it dead simple (P2V) where you pop in a cd and it will take an old box and pull it into vmware. MS deffinetly doesn't win this market, they are later to this market than VMware is, their product is worse than VMware and VMware goes beyond just supporting legacy/consolidation to test, dev, DR, etc. and VMware still smokes MS virtual server on performance on *ALL* items (network, cpu, memory and disk).

  44. I have no real reply by GreyKnight · · Score: 1
    Just wanted to say that I was giddy with glee to find that this article was tagged 'lunch'

    Maybe we could start tagging stories referencing MS internal usability studies with "dogfood". And if their internal study showed they were behind their competitors in some area, we could tag it both "lunch" and "dogfood". ;-)
  45. you don't understand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What your describing is simply the ENTIRE POINT OF HAVING A VM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Minus the pro-MS VS stuff it's just a generic explaination of why you want to have a virtual machine environment.

    The POINT, which your missing, is that Vmware server does everything that Microsoft's VS stuff does... But does it BETTER. It has better performance, much better UI, better scalability, higher compatability. Not only that it has a lot of features that VS doesn't have.

    Also instead of just supporting one platform they support many.

    And don't get the Vmware workstation stuff confused with the ESX, GSX, player, and server editions.

    And if you don't understand why Vmware stomps all over Microsoft's VS stuff then you realy never seen it realy being taken advantage of in large Enterprise environments.

  46. microsoft owns all markets by default by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it just takes time ... time is money and they have lots.

    MS will leverage segments of the market and product verticals to maintain a monopoly/oligopoly (60+% of the market) for at least another 20 years in my view.

    Perhaps longer.

  47. VMware's great and all by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 1

    But it still doesn't fix Microsoft's broken OS, as the article implies. Sure, I can run VMware and have fun with Windows running as a virtual machine instead of giving up my ability to use my prefered OS, at the same time. But it really doesn't repair BSODs, security flaws, and other plan nonsense in the MS OS. However, snapshots do give me a bit better protection, because if something blows up in MS Windows, I can just roll back to a safe state.

    1. Re:VMware's great and all by bcoff12 · · Score: 1

      Actually VMWare does help with BSODs in some respects, because the supported hardware selection is a small subset of what you can run on bare metal. You can choose from two (stable) NICs, but just about the rest of the local "hardware" supported under VMWare is known, stable, and the drivers won't blue screen your VM.

      Of course, you start throwing printer drivers into the mix, and there goes that...

  48. Similar meaning to... by kybred · · Score: 1

    Similar meaning to "Clean their clock".

  49. FEAR ME ! Hate me love me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    FEAR ME ! Hate me love me

    Still way too slow for the majors, I don't care what anyone else says. VM (x86) sucks !

  50. Re:Oh yeah? by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Funny

    So, you're saying Ballmer is a tosser?

    /me ducks

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  51. More like eating their SALAD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like eating their SALAD - which has soft browny bits..

  52. Re:Oh yeah? by Bega · · Score: 1
    Well, who tosses their salad?
    They don't toss Salad. They toss chairs.
    --

    THIS IS THE INTERNET. PLEASE PICK UP YOUR SERIOUS BUSINESS SUIT AT THE FRONT COUNTER.
  53. It's all about NT by perler · · Score: 1

    IMHO MS bought VPC to offer their clients a way to continue running legacy NT servers AND upgrade to new servers (with the attached license). what else VPC runs also is not what MS cares much about. I don't see them even competing with VMWare..

  54. I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast! by 2e · · Score: 1, Funny

    you eat pieces of shit for breakfast?
    No... I...

    Go Shooter!

  55. What the hell is wrong with you? by Builder · · Score: 2, Funny

    You work in marketting and you say things like and just as good as (better than?) MicroSoft Virtual Server

    And to make it even worse, you're saying this about a product that just wipes the floor with Virtual server. Be more positive man!

  56. Typical Slashdot Article by Feign+Ram · · Score: 1

    I have never read a shallower article. Sure VMWare is faster, but they have been around for much longer. MS Virtual Server was originally developed by some other company that MS took over. It's got a vastly superior API that makes app dev a lot easier. For VMWare you would have to buy the expensive Virtual Center, the C API that VMWare is releasing with their free server is in deep deep Beta. It's the usual MS strategy - make things easier for developers,ISV's, and partners first and worry about performance later. The flurry of moves that VMWare is making in the last three months is indication that they are far more aware of the very real threat from MS Virtual server than the average Slashdot Idiot.

  57. Don't really mod parent by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

    Maybe we could start tagging stories referencing MS internal usability studies with "dogfood". And if their internal study showed they were behind their competitors in some area, we could tag it both "lunch" and "dogfood". ;-)

    Which perfectly fits a full time FOSS developer's diet. ;)

    --
    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  58. It's even worse. by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

    Microsoft not only suffer from a serious case of NIH, meaning that they will always use own technologies for eveything, they're also scared by the thought of anyone else using their stuff - effectively Microsoft is simultaneously pursuing an isolationist policy and trying to get a foothold in every market.

    It's understandable that they feel they have to resort to unfair tactics - if they competed fairly their isolationism would make them a perpetual fringe player in every market they don't already control. Expansionist isolationism doesn't work if you can't strong-arm the rest of the world into allowing you to bend the rules.

    --
    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  59. Microsoft offers discounted licensing for virtual by trylak · · Score: 1

    Actually Microsoft does offer breaks on licensing. Specifically, run Virtual Server on Windows 2003 Enterprise, and you can run 4 virtual instances of Windows 2003 Enterprise with no additional licensing fees.
    Paul
    From http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2005/o ct05/10-10virtualizationlicensing.mspx
    First, we are licensing by running instance, which is to say the number of images, installations and/or copies of the original software stored on a local or storage network. Instead of licensing every inactive or stored virtual instance of a Windows Server System product, customers can now create and store an unlimited number of instances, including those for back-up and recovery, and only pay for the maximum number of running instances at any given time. Second, we are providing easier deployment across servers. Customers can now move active instances from one licensed server to another licensed server without limitation, as long as the physical server is licensed for that same product. So, customers will now be able to store a set of instances on a storage network and deploy any instance to a rack server or blade server that has an available license for that server software. Third, we are providing customers with greater flexibility with Windows Server System products that are currently licensed by processor, such as Microsoft SQL Server, BizTalk Server, Internet Security Accelerator Server and others. Customers can now stack multiple virtual instances on a machine by licensing for the number of virtual processors being used, rather than for all of the physical processors on the server. Lastly, we recognize customers are using virtualization to consolidate servers. Therefore, we now have a policy for Windows Server 2003 R2 Enterprise Edition that allows customers to run up to four running virtual instances on one server at no additional cost. And we'll go further with the Datacenter Edition of Windows Server "Longhorn," the code name for the next version of Windows Server, by allowing customers to run unlimited virtual instances on one server at no additional charge

  60. Attn "overrated" moderator by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    I don't mind if you mod me down but why don't you use "Flamebait" or "Troll". You just look stupid when you use "overrated" on an unmoderated post.

  61. Virtualization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    MS is coming out with some pretty good things these days- only google's marketing them faster. Check out this page on virtualization!

  62. Hardware and drivers are not the faults of Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not the first time I've heard your claim, and it certainly won't be the last. Microsoft Windows does not Just Work no matter what hardware and drivers you use. Granted, both can be the faults of any OS's "problems", but MS Windows is on a whole other level, the software is broken.

  63. their names all end in ".jpg". by wilec · · Score: 1

    Naw the 'dotter's with really big drives have more than a few with the last names of .vob, .vcd, .mpg, .avi, .rm and a few others as well.

    Matthew