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Integrate iPod with Car or Risk Death
An anonymous reader writes "CNET has talked to Apple about its big plans for the car. Apple say they're keen to save the lives of anyone who risks death by "reaching into the footwell of his car to retrieve an iPod nano at around 90mph" and anyone who "considered skipping tracks on his iPod more important than the lives of multiple humans". Apple are also said to be "delighted by the efforts of Mac users who retrofit the Mac Mini into cars" and are "keeping an eye on what these hackers are up to with their Macs." The writer also pitched his own design ideas to Apple's director of global product marketing, Bob Borchers: "We suggested to Borchers that Apple should allow drivers to use their car steering wheel as a giant Clickwheel interface, so that you can change tracks by changing lanes. Borchers foresaw certain safety problems with such a device and rejected the concept.""
You can kill someone by just focusing on the stereo display instead of the road, too. This guy was just more Darwinian than most.
Perhaps car stereos need to be rubber-padded to accomodate the lowest common denominator, like so many other consumer products. Something to prevent you from changing discs, tracks or stations unless the transmission is in park.
John
I've never almost died by trying to use my RF intefaced iPod on the freeway. Nope. Never.
(end of post)
We suggested to Borchers that Apple should allow drivers to use their car steering wheel as a giant Clickwheel interface, so that you can change tracks by changing lanes. Borchers foresaw certain safety problems with such a device and rejected the concept.""
Jesus, is it April already?
I know a lot of manufacturers have started including iPod connections in the glovebox with stereo's equipped with direct control of the gadget, but has anyone made a headunit with a cassette-like bay for the iPod? It would be like, retro cool. I guess the problem comes with the different form factors of all the different iPods, but I suppose they could include various shims.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Nobody in the developed world is moronic enough to believe that...
I've learned never to say those words, no matter how absurd things may seem.
Hey, at least he wasn't placing a needle on a 45 while driving!
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
You missed the joke - go get your morning cup of coffee, then reread. Repeat until it's at least slightly humorous.
Please ignore any obvious problems in this post.
Obviously they've never had somebody 'borrow' their music player of choice and load it down with eight hours of 'Therapeutic Gong'.
The best way, IMHO, would be to add the iPod controls to the steering wheel (or at least iPod shuffle-like controls), and use one of those "projection" system to display track/navigation information at the bottom of the windshield (so using the iPod would be even less dangerous than checking your current speed).
Why would an iPod be in the footwell? I just put it in the change holder area and it's always at arm's length and has never fallen loose.
Turn the steering wheel, and your get the scroll function. Horn selects.
It's beyond darwinian. He's prepared to take out smart people in other cars.
Developers: We can use your help.
And we could tie the accelerator to Volume control, and the brake could be the Pause button. Oh, and we could have the engine make funny clicking noises to provide sensory feedback and we would be all set.
We'd have to ban Brittany Spears though, because mayhem would quite likely ensue as thousands of drivers struggled to hit pause, turn down the volume and change tracks simultaneously.
We could call it the iPod MEGA. An iPod you can drive around in.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Nissan has a unit which connects through my satellite wiring, my car was prewired, that will allow me to control my iPod from the built-in stereo. This will also allow me to control the iPod via the steering wheel controls.
I honestly am not sure whats worse, being able to use it this way with all the distractions it may cause, or not having the option available. I will figure that out for myself.
Still it makes one wonder, should functions which inherently distract you from driving be prevented by the hardware? I know some navigation functions are disabled if the vehicle is moving, why not other functions?
I can change radio stations without visual queues but selecting playlists isn't going to be as easy. Sometimes I think answering your cellphone should shut your car off.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
...I just grab the wire that's attached to it and start pulling. I use a lighter plug charger which has an audio-out jack on the charger plug, and the cassette adapter plugs into that. Ergonomically, it's like using a wired remote, only the music is in the "remote" itself. It cost a bit more for this than the other cheapie brands that don't have an audio jack, but I had already been using an MP3 CD player for a few years and was never happy with two wires to the player constantly getting tangled.
And why has it taken car stereo manufacturers so long to put input jacks on the damn things anyhow? Mine is seven years old, and I'm not too aware of what the norm is now. For all I know, they still aren't including input jacks. Cassette adapters are an ugly workaround that shouldn't be necessary, and FM transmitters are usually too weak or imprecise.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
Mopar (Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/etc) has a system that gives iPod control to most of their vehicle's radios over the last five or so years.
The problem is, it doesn't work. They claim it works with all Dock iPods, and explicitly list all of them, but it just plain doesn't work with any 3G iPods. The radio comes up and says to update the firmware on the iPod. Of course 3G iPods haven't gotten any updates in a LONG time.
My girlfriends Mini (4G?) works with it... sort of. Only half the albums, artists or playlists show up... even if those songs play just fine in a playlist that references them.
It remains to be seen if later iPods actually work as advertised. The problem is, these products are not well supported (or supported at all). An iPod cable is a different beast from most car accessories or features. A quick search through various car support forums makes it sound like the problem is pretty common -- these non-Apple integrations sometimes work great, sometimes work some, and sometimes just don't work.
Caveat Emptor.
Unfortunately, I don't think even a Heads Up Display (HUD) + controls integrated into the steering wheel would really solve the fundamental problem that people can't focus their eyes on two things at once.
Most people can't even be expected to react quickly to outside events if they're talking on the phone while driving. Why would we expect anything more if they're not even focusing their eyes on the road, much less their brains.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Are you serious? An article/interview can't make a quick, silly joke without you being huffy that it's only appropriate for Annual Joke Day?
They weren't SERIOUS! That's an absolutely ridiculous and horribly unsafe method! Simply by refuting that quote in the article, you have positioned yourself as the only person that is so moronic that they thought it was actually even a viable option for iPod control.
Come ON, kids. Let's lighten the hell up.
How would he know unless he tracked the guy down, and asked?
Then beat him senseless with the nano.
I think that must already be implemented because I already see that behavior on all sorts of drivers every day.. And here I thought they were just idiots!
My rantings, only longer and with better spelling..
Ban ipods, radios, phones, noisy kids, and all other distractions from automobiles.
There, we can all drive safer now.
Rule #1 of iPod safety: People reaching for their iPods don't cause car accidents. Idiots reaching for their iPods do.
Corrollary to rule #1: Anyone causing an accident while reaching for his iPod is an idiot.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You assume the odds are the people he hit are smart.
Try driving around Boston for a couple days. You could grab your nano at 90 and wipe out ten other cars and likely not hit someone who isn't also driving like an idiot!
qoute "Hey, at least he wasn't placing a needle on a 45 while driving!"
Yeah, singles are so out. Custom 33 1/3 LP all the way.
Didn't a luxury car maker feature a turntable in one of their commercials?
(mostly off topic...)
my last car was totalled by some jackass who went looking for his walkie talkie in the footwell... took his foot of the brake and his truck went over my bumper and through my trunk. you don't have to be moving fast to cause a problem like that. this happened at a stop light.
annoyingly, cars *are* supposed to be rubber padded for these sorts of things, but it doesn't work when to support a trucks "rugged look" the rubber padding, (the bumper) is a foot higher than it ought to be...
-- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)
But most modern cars build stereo controls into the steering-wheel.
Also modern car stereos are built with big buttons and a big legible display, along with one-touch operation
= nice big target, so you are distracted for less time.
If the iPod responded to instructions from the cd-changer buttons, you'd have an interface more suited to the car.
If device manufacturers (APPLE, cell phone companies, and even car stereo makers) would bother to design buttons that are TACTILE (recognizable by touch) we wouldn't have this problem (well, not as big). There's nothing worse than reaching for that device, only to find that every button feels the same under your thumb... Is it so hard to add a triangle shape to the Play button? Square to the stop?
I used to have a cell phone where the middle (5) key had a raised "nub" on it. I could, without looking at the phone, center my thumb on it and dial out without once looking. Now I have this new phone where I can't even tell where the damn buttons are, because they are all flush with the rest of the phone face! Oh but it has a color screen. That's progress!
I've been driving with a Creative Nomad (well, now it's a Zen Sleek) since I started driving over 5 years ago... it's never caused me to be in an accident. It's called common sense -- use it! "Oh, I want to find that one album by so-and-so and play it right now teheheheh" Well, have your passenger do it / pull over into a parking spot or onto the shoulder / hit the "next track" button until you hear it (Creative has a menu action when a song is playing called "play album"... I'm guessing there's an iPod equivalent) / decide that not getting in an accident is a little more important than listening to some certain song. Personally, I use my sense of touch instead of sight when I'm using my Creative while driving -- I think it's a very simple thing to do, iPods don't need to scan your retinas in order to change the song or up the volume... so in theory, iPod users should be able to do the same (in fact, I know they can because I've seen friends do it).
First rule of driving -- don't be an idiot!
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
"Sure, officer, I know I'm driving the wrong way, but the music's better here."
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's more like "bullets don't kill people, people moving at 1200 m/s in the direction of a bullet shatter bullets" and kill themselves in the process.
Who was it who said motion was relative?
Oh, agreed on getting rid of the drivers.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Even mp3 CDs through my once-top-of-the-line Alpine deck sound noticably worse than normal CDs, due to digital compression (same as iPod). Then you have to run it through FM, decreasing the frequency bandwidth and forcing an extra D/A/D conversion. So you pay a couple hundred dollars to get worse sound quality than CDs, mp3 CDs, tapes, and even potentially FM.
Most of the cars coming out of BMW plants over the last several years have had supposed iPod "integration" -- including my Mini.
For a collaboration between two companies known for their design elegance, the BMW iPod dock is an abomination.
Basically, it fools your car into thinking that the iPod is a 6-disc CD changer, and yes, the stereo controls on the steering wheel do control it. Sort of.
You have to create 6 playlists called BMW1,BMW2 or MINI1,MINI2 etc and you're basically limited to using only those playlists unless you want to go through your entire 60gb library in alphabetical order. The model I own doesn't show text on the head-unit either, although I've been told that newer ones do this.
Top it off with the fact that the 'dock' is just a cable floating loose in the glove box allowing your 'pod to bounce around all over the place and you've got basically a hack that reduces your iPod to a stack of MP3 CDs because you can't find anything and the interface is completely crippled. Seriously, why would you create an iPod dock and then rob every trace of iPod-ness from the user experience?
I loathed this solution so much that I went back to the dealer and had an Aux jack installed in the glove box and just ran a cable down to my cupholder through the console.
Here's hoping that Apple comes up with a truly elegant solution.
I'm switching out my stock Honda player for an iPod compatible one (my Honda CD player skips when I change lanes anyway...maybe that's where Bortcher got his idead from...). My girlfriend and I commute to work together, just got her a nano. So she can flip tunes while I try not to get us killed. All while being environmentally conscious. :-)
There are so many cars in the U.S., that no one really has to sit in the back seat.
I don't have any links, but a few manufacturers attempted to heed the calls of people who wanted to play their LPs on the road. None were sucesseful for a few reasons. Suspension tech was pretty bad and the roads were worse. There was no way to have a record play continuously over anything but perfect driving conditions. Applying more force on the arm broke needls over the bumps and occationally damaged the vinyl.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
... then make sure drivers' licenses go only to those who prove on the medical examination thet they can:
...etc.).
- split attention in two unequal parts,
- always maintain complete awareness and primary attention on main task (driving),
- are prepared, alert and willing to abort any minor task(s) for any sudden demand for reaction regarding major task, even if it causes minor nuisance (i.e. a mess in a cabin, "losing" small objects on the floor, letting that mosquito bite you,
Like with abstinence vs. safe sex, it is better to be prepared then "strongly advise not to do it". Because, they'll do it!
Now that I don't have to worry about changing songs on my iPod, I can free up my hands to read a magazine while talking on my cellphone and eating a Cheeseburger.
I swear! I once saw a guy do that! I wasn't driving at the time...
Seriously, when people invent stuff like this and say it's 'Fool-Proof', they're basicly just sticking their tounges out at God, says "Lord, not even you could make a human so stupid, that they could screw this up!" God disagrees, and proves them wrong with horific, yet hillarious ease.
Driver distractions in general are the problem. "Eyeballs off the road" or "fishing around in the footwell for my stray iPod" are extreme (and extremely stupid) cases. But just the thought process of "hmm...which CD has my Led Zeppelin and which CD has my Devo?" is enough distraction to take my focus off the road.
Another example is thinking I'm "safer" with my handsfree car phone than I am fumbling about with a handheld. Sure, that's a bit safer than not fumbling with it, but I guarantee that if you're on a hands-free phone call and get into a heated argument with your spouse (or any other emotionally upsetting phone call) that your concentration isn't going to remain fully on the road.
If car stereos were locked down while the cars are in motion, the temptation to change tracks would be gone, and so would the distraction.
John
Your friendly neighborhood robot?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
You missed the joke - go get your morning cup of coffee, then reread. Repeat until it's at least slightly humorous.
And if the coffee doesn't work for you, try beer.
People have been integrating PCs into their cars for years. Why is this news? Oh, that's right, because it's apple... Fanyboys suck.
I don't own a car or an ipod, do I really have to die?
I rarely talk on the phone while driving. I only do so if the call can't wait and there is little to no traffic. Even then I find the extra gadget distracting. My MP3 player is conveniently located within a finger's reach when I have my hand on the gearshift, so as long as I'm in 1st, 3rd, or 5th gear I barely have to glance at it to change volume or tracks. Talking on a cell phone with a manual transmission is a bit tougher, which is partly why I don't like talking on it while driving. Headsets aren't a problem for me as long as I get the call set up while I'm stopped.
I think the key is knowing your limits. I know that trying to keep a phone on my head in the right spot to hear it while turning the wheel and shifting gears is more than I can handle, so I don't do it. I know my truck can't take corners well, so I have to slow down. I know my car can take the corners with its front wheel drive. I know I can talk easier on a cell phone in my (automatic) car, so my limit there is a little more relaxed.
Every day I see counterexamples, though. People driving big SUVs like sportscars when they can't corner and can't handle like one. Talking on cell phones in heavy traffic. Eating while driving in heavy traffic. Et al. This is a driver problem, not a gadget problem.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
"Borchers sees add-ons as passé. What Apple really wants you to buy is a car that's designed from the ground up to interface with the iPod."
Borchers is welcome to send me a new car with iPod integration built in. While I could hold my breath waiting for that to happen, I'd much rather integrate my iPod into my current vehicle, thankyouverymuch. Is this guy an Apple employee or a car salesman?I saw it on Slashdot, it must be true!
Talk about the angle... seems BillG is not the only one moving into philanthropy.
Thank you Apple!
"Blah blah blah." - [citation needed]
This is a great argument for traveling with a spouse/significant other/friend. All you need to do is ask them to fix the iPod. This works well for all sorts of other mundane chores one shouldn't perform while driving.
"Here's what's happening. You're starting to drive like your Dad..." - Red Green
If I am able to turn the player off, I will become frustrated and unfit to drive.
----- You know you have ego issues when you register a domain in your name.
I looked at most of the integration with stock systems and it pretty much sucks... But you can get an Alpine unit for $179 and $30 for the cable that has sweet iPod integration... Put one in the wifes from Crutchfield, now I have to have it...
Agreed. Now that cars are moving away from having tape decks anyway, there really needs to be a good way to interface musical devices. Especially since "musical devices" now encompass in-car movie playing. The best method would be a standardized docking cradle with a digital interface. Just pop your iPod (or any other audio/visual device) into the cradle and go. The iPod would respond to commands from the vehicle, allowing the driver to use the steering wheel controls instead of the controls on the iPod.
Gen 1 devices that supported this interface would probably require an adapter to fit the cradle and translate commands.
Gen 2 devices would probably be designed around the interface.
Gen 3 devices might even go wireless, thus nullifying the need to dock the device.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
:%s:work:/.:g
I call for the introduction of the long-need HUD in consumer cars. Then we can put anything we damn well want to in our cars and have an easy way to look at them without taking our eyes off the road!
ha - I know you were talking about a record needle, but this reminds me of the time I saw a guy shooting heroin (I assume) on route 80 (right outside of Berwick, PA) while _driving_ his car - the young lady riding shotgun appeared to be patiently waiting her turn ....
... while driving"
In any case, I agree "at least he wasn't placing a needle
-w
calling all destroyers
I know when I am in a high speed chase on Santa Monica Freeway and the news helicopters are overhead, the last thing I want to be doing is fumbling for my copy of "Foggy Mountain Breakdown" on my ipod!
Any recent (e.g., last 4 years) factory stereo has a special port on the back for connecting a CD Changer to the unit. Some ingenious companies have figured out ways to use this port to bridge any music player into the stereo system -- essentially fooling the head unit by emulating a cd changer with an iPod or whathaveyou. These bridges generally include a true iPod cable connector which allows the iPod to be controlled directly at the head unit, so using your ipod is about as safe as changing CD tracks.
g =227450&avf=Y&skipvs=T&secure=off&s=0&cc=01
Most also include a less-safe option of an RCA bypass jack that you can use with other players. Online car stereo places sell good quality ones for between $100 and $200 depending upon your model of car. Not bad for CD-quality sound out of your ipod, through your car, when the Griffin iTrip FM adapter costs about $95 these days.
Read more info here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?
i have one for my new corolla... took about 10 minutes to install and works flawlessly.
You can kill someone by just focusing on the stereo display instead of the road, too. This guy was just more Darwinian than most
Have you ever actually -used- an iPod while driving?
Most car stereos have a UI that is, at least to some extent, designed for the environment it resides in. This is far from the case with the iPod, Zen Micro, or just about any other portable media player I've touched.
I try not to change playlists or albums while I'm driving with my iPod. That stupid thing has caused me to drive outside of the white lines on several occasions. Oddly enough, other monuments to distraction (such as my phone or car stereo) aren't nearly as bad.
The iPod has a great little GUI, but it does not suit driving at all.
I'm quite surprised some litigious bastards have not taken Apple to court over this yet.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Indeed... not to mention the fact that a guy taking his eyes off the road to reach down at least knows he isn't paying attention to the road, and will probably have the urge to look back up if his attention is diverted too long. A person with a HUD, on the other hand, could get lulled into a false sense that what he is doing is safe.
Procrastination Man strikes again!
Changing tracks by changing lanes? I don't even want to know how you would put it on loop.
The concept of integrating an iPod into the car controls in itself is a saftey hazard, considering that so many people get into accidents from changing radio stations. Imagine the danger of constantly changing tracks. iPod is already monopolizing the portable media business, I guess they are also preparing to monopolize the funeral home business.
A wise man once told me that slavery and marriage are polar opposites, uncontrollably attracted to eachother, and stuck
"The writer also pitched his own design ideas to Apple's director of global product marketing, Bob Borchers: "We suggested to Borchers that Apple should allow drivers to use their car steering wheel as a giant Clickwheel interface, so that you can change tracks by changing lanes. Borchers foresaw certain safety problems with such a device and rejected the concept.""
This has got to be an example of a stupid idea. WHY would ANYONE who walks upright suggest an idea as stupid as this: "We suggested to Borchers that Apple should allow drivers to use their car steering wheel as a giant Clickwheel interface, so that you can change tracks by changing lanes." I think that the journalist lost what credibility to his intelligence he had. Thank God someone in Marketing actually used their brain to accomplish something GOOD and shot this idea out of the sky before a manager got wind of it.
Imagine watching someone weaving a rug through traffic, trying to look for a song.
---
Officer: "Sir, I noticed that you were weaving erratically through traffic! Are you ok?!"
Driver: "Yes I'm fine."
Officer: ( Puzzled, angry look ) "Then why on Earth were you weaving through traffic like that?! You cut across all six lanes, cut off a bunch of drivers and almost caused several accidents! Plus, you were speeding!"
Driver: "I was trying to find a song on my IPod. You know that song "Hot Rod Lincoln" by Commander Cody? I can't find it on here."
(sounds of a motorist being beaten with a ticket book)
-----
Sig Sauer
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
There is a standardized digital interface (but not a cradle/dock.) It's called a USB mass stoarge device. And this Kenwood can play from it. Since mine was a retrofit, the installer filled the gap above it with a small in-dash pocket that's perfect for holding the USB device. (I'm using a Palm Lifedrive, but I've used a memory stick with good results, too.) It's a very generic solution that works for iPods, iRivers and Zens, too.
Of course, it's not without its shortcomings; the car stereo has to read the entire directory structure (every time it boots) before playing a note; it doesn't recognize existing playlists or remember to save new ones; and the tiny buttons have even tinier unreadable labels. But I think the choice of USB-B connectors as a "universal" interface was a good one, and works with most equipment that's out there today. The only thing that would have been better would have been Bluetooth's A2DP, but that hasn't been widely adopted yet.
John
Honestly, if you're going to be reaching around your car and trying to pull your ipod from some crevasse, you should at least slow down to a reasonable speed.
Badass Resumes
Unfortunately, so far, the best controller for an iPod I've seen is still the iPod itself. All the iPod interfaces to car-stereo unit's I've seen use the car's head unit as the controller for the iPod, including setting up playlists and what not. This isn't practical with a 60GB iPod loaded with tens of thousands of tracks and hundreds of playlists.
Just place the iPod near the steering wheel, use that as the controller for the tracks and playlists, and forget about all the horrible interfaces in the head-unit. It should only be connected with an Aux cable for audio. Actually, a bluetooth interface for audio transfer to the car would even be better, since there's no cable. Need apple to come up with a bluetooth equipped iPod, though.
While it's not a general interface, I have this in my car. My ipod stays in my center console where I ran the plug to and made a little docking interface. Browsing music is quite nice and it works just like a CD changer would, except you have more information and more songs available. Plus it avoids the FM modulator which sounds like crap.
You can only idiot-proof so many things... there are an infinite number of ways that an idiot can get killed and possibly take others out also. Where do you draw the line? If you make it too tough, no one will buy the car to begin with... they'll just retreat to some vintage 70's, 80's, or 90's piece of junk, and then they've sidestepped all the hardwork.
Idiots are everywhere. It's just as much your duty to avoid them as it is for everyone to idiot-proof the system. Legislating the world into submission only makes it miserable for those that are not idiots.
Good luck.
That doesn't work on anything purchased from iTunes or a WMP Store. Not to mention custom encodings like FLAC or OGG. All it does is add complexity to the car's system in order to support MP3 decoding. A standardized interface would provide high-speed channels for decoded audio/video content, tagging, a command interface, power, and ground. Not to mention that the standard could also define a form-factor so as to allow all compliant devices fit in a secure cradle. While some devices might require an adapter, it will at least keep the device from flying around when you take a corner just a smidge too fast.
USB mass storage won't do any of that today.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Why don't Apple just start building cars? They'd be all white and only use special Apple tyres and iGas...
Ubuntu Music Project: OSS for music tech geeks
I'm so sick of the distractions while driving mantra. The thing about it is that I believe everyone should do what they can to the best of their ability. The fact is if I can manage to change tracks on my portable music player, and answer cell phones while driving I should be able to. Instead of impuning me by making "potentially risky" behavior illegal, when there's nothing inherently awful about it, maybe you should impune those who get in the crashes. I'm sick of this line of crap that a cell phone makes you crash your car, I have never had a problem talking on a cell phone while driving, and I have had an MP3 player for years and been able to change tracks without driving with no issues. As long as you pick the boring times to do these things, and put the distractions away when they are unmanageable, I don't see a real problem. Idiots will find ways to be idiots and if accidents aren't caused by one thing they'll find a new distraction. I find it irritating that people feel they need to parent me and tell me what I can have going on in my car while I'm driving. We're big boys now, we drive, and we can be responsible for our own actions. I don't need big brother government protecting me from every "danger" and limiting my freedom in the process. Plus, assholes have enough problems just driving to get into an accident with a normal reaction time, knowledgeable adult. You can ban all the ipods you want, most of the idiots out there crashing into you are just shit for brains to begin with.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Wow, that takes more than a little stupidity. I personally know that paramedics do not even like to place IVs while the ambulance is in motion, let alone while they are the one driving!
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
If the iPod responded to instructions from the cd-changer buttons, you'd have an interface more suited to the car
I am sure someone has probably mentioned this in the responses but I haven't seen it yet. I bought the ipod2car which interfaces to my Jeep Liberty CD interface which allows me to skip tracks, seek and will also charge the Ipod while connected. Funny thing is that I still use the click wheel more as it is closer to the shifter than the radio.
The catch to the ipod2car is if you have anything else that uses the interface for example a cd changer or satellite radio, you have to disconnect one. I really like it and would recommend it to anyone who is looking for it
The placement of the controls isn't the problem. The visibility of the controls isn't the problem. The driver who thinks he can drive the radio and the car at the same time is the problem.
Driver distractions in general are the problem.
No, the problem is that cars are driven by human beings who are inherently fallible. This is very old, but poor technology. Even if every distraction/impediment is eliminated, more people still will die from traffic accidents than any other preventable form of death.
It's a bit worse than talking to an adult passenger, because a passenger is usually aware of the road conditions and will shut up at the appropriate time, and will understand when your concentration needs to be fully on the road. People on the other end of the cell call usually don't recognize that I'm driving and certainly aren't aware of my traffic situation. Occasionally I have to butt in with a "Sorry, I'm driving and there's a problem, could you hang on a moment?" The other party is almost universally accepting of this -- if you bother to tell them. But I remember at least one occasion where traffic was tight, and my boss just wouldn't shut up, so I hung up on him. Yeah, that's why I hung up.
John
I've got a dension icelink. It's close to what you describe. Basically a cable goes from the back of my cars head unit (from the AUX port, where you'd normally plug in an additional CD changer) into a breakout box (which I mounted near my gas pedal (yes, it's completely out of the way and you'd never know it was there without really looking for it.) From the breakout box I have a cable that runs inside my shifting area (I don't know what it's called) to my center armrest. On the end of that cable is a standard iPod interface connector.
Basically I plug the iPod in and set it into my arm rest storage area, set my head unit to the aux input, and control it by hitting back and forward along with volume from my steering wheel controls. For all intents and purposes it works exactly like most car CD players do.
The plusses to this setup is that my iPod is put away when it use, I can control it from the steering, no visible wires, and a hard line connection (as opposed to radio.)
The minuses are that it's in my arm rest, I can't see what's playing, the display on my head unit doesn't know how to cope with the iPod and try to treat it as a CD changer so it display's a loop of disc one tracks 1-3.
It'd be the perfect setup if I could navigate my iPod via my steering wheel controls and my head unit could essentially mirror iPod Display (or something similar.)
...if everyone drove bumper cars we wouldn't be having this discussion.
That's an idea I've had for a while... A car stereo sized device that basicaly contains an amplifier and volume control, maybe a display for equaliser effects. 3.5mm socket for plugging your mp3 player into. A USB HID interface (per the above user) might be a plus too.
I'd go for producing it but the price would probably end up higher than a cheap stereo from a supermarket.
I have a '99 Camry, which is, of course, before they started making iPod retrofits, steeringwheel controls, and all that jazz. I got a nice leather case by Vaja, with a rivet in the back, that hooks into a little belt clip. What I did is bought a second beltclip device, and mounted it on my dashboard in the center console, above the stereo. I ran a Blitzsafe connector (which delivers line level audio, as well as power) to the CD changer port on my stereo. So I basically have a quick little clip to hold my ipod (I went in and bent down the clip so I don't have to press the button to remove the iPod) on top of my dashboard, and I can bring it right up in front of me when operating it, so I can keep my eyes on the road. When I get out of the car, I can pull it clean off, in one swoop, and clip it back on my belt. So when I leave the car, it goes with me, and it's become second nature to do so.
For safety reasons, I wait until I'm at a red light, or when there's no traffic around me to switch tracks (and no, I don't use playlists, I hate playlists). If you change albums, I usually wait until an oportune time (like a red light), and navigate to the track I want before the previous track finishes, so all I have to do is hit "menu" "center button" to play the next track I want to hear, I don't even have to look to do that! Also, I listen to a lot of prog, which has 10-20 minute tracks, so I don't switch tracks very much, if at all...
The real killer is people who do custom mods that require that your iPod be docked into a stationary location, so you have to actually bend over and squint to operate it. I was blown away when I noticed how many people are doing this, it seems like the worst thing in the world to do. Go onto iLounge and they have a forum for car modding, and so many people have done this thing of putting a universal dock into their ash tray. I think the solution is to be able to move the iPod around at will, so you don't feel the need to bend down to operate it, or a passanger can operate it. In this way, it's probably even safer than a car stereo... and less prone to theft, as well.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
Controls for any movie playing device should be totally inaccessible from the driver's seat. We don't want anything to encourage people to try to watch movies while driving. Those in-car dvd players should be for passenger use only.
Except this would purposely screw over everyone with someone sitting in the passenger seat trying to operate the stereo...
Frosty piss posts are worthless, GNAA posts are worthless and hurtful, but they are the least of this site's neuroses.
God, but replacing something tactile that you didn't have to take your eyes off the road to adjust was an incredibly stupid, irresponsible, and antisocial thing to do. And forget trying to adjust the bass or treble or balance or fade! The old radios had stacked knobs, and all the radios had the knobs in the same places, and the channel changing buttons were tactile as well.
And what's the difference between losing your ipod, which you can do without (it's illegal to drive with ear buds in Illinois, you're still going to hear it through the radio) and your cigareete lighter? A smoker WILL NOT do without his lighter!
What is this assumption that EVERYONE must have an ipod? I already have a way-cooler, smaller MP3 player with more features than any ipod (google for MPIO one).
I tell ya, if next time I go to buy a car and it has an ipod interface (especially one that only works with ipods and not other audio players) I'll be looking for another car.
That's not just a good idea, it's the law. *rolls eyes*
That doesn't stop the controls for changing the movie from being in the front seat. While the driver probably shouldn't be messing with the movie controls while (s)he's driving, there's nothing saying that the passenger shouldn't.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
keen to prevent lawsuits? Is there any warning label on the iPod not to
use it while driving? If not, in this day and legal age they are leaving themself
open to some very large suits.
The original poster seems to think that he won't ever make a mistake, or get caught in an emergency situation, or encounter an "asshole" who isn't as good a driver as he seems to think he is. That's not what I call being responsible for his own actions. With freedom comes responsiblity - saying that only "idiots" with "shit for brains" get in accidents are the comments of someone too immature to driving in the first place.
All jokes aside, this is slashdot, so I'm not sure you actually needed to explain why playing vinyl records in a car doesn't work that well :-)
("You must be new here" comment in 5...4...3...)
People could just not use Apple's crappy products to begin with.
I must first confess to occasionally answering my mobile phone whilst driving (despite the lack of a handsfree kit), but only if I am confident I can do so safely. I monitor the road conditions carefully, and if traffic is heavy, I'll just drop the phone with a "Hang on!" (at this point, I generally pull over).
I find the most distracting thing about talking on the phone is the talking part, not the phone part, thus I will often ask a passenger to pause a conversation during hairy traffic conditions also. By my own assesment of my abilities, "hairy traffic conditions" are pretty much anything more complex than a long, straight road with nothing else on it. Driving is a potentially dangerous activity at any time, so adding extra danger is something I am careful to avoid. I wish more people would do the same, as I believe inattention and overconfidence cause many of the road deaths here in Australia.
A fraction of a second's distraction can mean the difference between life and death, for oneself, and the people we share the road with. Let's all drive smarter, and safer.
I think a HUD would be even worse. With the thing right in front of you, you're much more likely to be staring at the album art or really concentrating on changing playlists. Whenever I use my iPod in the car (fairly rarely, I tend to stick with MP3 CDs for this reason), I always change tracks/volume/playlists with the highest level of absent-mindedness possible. I almost nailed someone trying to save a message to my cell (admittedly, on an unfamiliar road at that point), and that's just hitting OK. I know that my concentration needs to stay on the road, and tricking myself into thinking I'm watching the road just because it's out of focus behind a HUD really isn't the best way to acheive it.
Of course, the intelligence of the driver is the most important part here. I'm a teen driver but I know my limits, and I know that using an overly sensitive scroll wheel to zero-in on a track on a 2.5" screen while trying to pay attention to traffic is just stupid. I think teens are more likely not know or ignore their limits, but I'm sure there are plenty of adults that are equally stupid. I tend to just set it to a playlist before I get going (or at a long light), and leave it on shuffle and/or repeat, which is pretty reasonable. But putting up some sort of HUD that lets people think they're watching the road when they're really looking at a track list is just asking for problems.
That's the problem with cars and Darwinism. Idiots can take themselves out easily enough, but they also have a great way of taking out people that do have at least half a brain. Therefore, fixing the problem really just means stopping idiots from driving. At least within the US, this could be easily remedied by making the driving test at least vaguely skill-requiring. Mine was turn out of the DMV, don't hit anyone or speed for ten minutes, and turn back in. I could have skipped parallel parking entirely and still had some percentage points to spare and pass, though it's not that hard when there's only one car to parallel park behind. I wouldn't have even called it a quiz, and being given the license to use a large fast-moving weapon seems like it should take more than an 80% on the most basics of basic operation.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
True, your # may be an order of magnitude or two less than mine, but I've been around for a while.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
I now completely refuse to drive my wife anywhere. If she wants to drive, she can do it from the driver's seat.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Didn't a luxury car maker feature a turntable in one of their commercials?
When I was a kid, my best friend's father had a '56 Cadillac which had a 78 RPM turntable that folded down from under the dashboard. I'm not sure if it was factory installed or an aftermarket item but I do remember that it was pretty cleanly installed and that it played through the radio. Unfortunately, I can't tell you how well it worked--we were never able to try the thing out since my friend's father was wise enough not to give his car keys to a couple of 10-year-olds. I sort of doubt that it would have been of much use in a moving car...
This ain't rocket surgery.
So, two people in a car is environmentally concious?
Do you also eat only 50% of the food on your plate and trash the rest of it?
The minuses are that it's in my arm rest, I can't see what's playing, the display on my head unit doesn't know how to cope with the iPod and try to treat it as a CD changer so it display's a loop of disc one tracks 1-3.
P rodView.asp?wm=fp&I=500CDA9856
It'd be the perfect setup if I could navigate my iPod via my steering wheel controls and my head unit could essentially mirror iPod Display (or something similar.)
I just got an Alpine CDA-9856 to replace my worn out Aiwa. It plays CDs, MP3 & WMDs (or whatever MS calls their music format). It displays the MP3 tags on the head unit, and using a $30 cable plugged into an iPod, it will recharge the iPod as well as control it and display tags on the head unit. Not bad for $200, three line outs and a fairly hefty amp built in.
It doesn't integrate with steering wheel controls,. but I can live with that.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dqg3xoV8x67/cgi-bin/
That's an idea I've had for a while... A car stereo sized device that basicaly contains an amplifier and volume control, maybe a display for equaliser effects. 3.5mm socket for plugging your mp3 player into. A USB HID interface (per the above user) might be a plus too.
P rodView.asp?wm=fp&I=500CDA9856
I'd go for producing it but the price would probably end up higher than a cheap stereo from a supermarket.
You get all that, plus AM/FM and the ability to play CDs & MP3 CDs for $200.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-dqg3xoV8x67/cgi-bin/
OK, you don't get USB, but you can plug in and control an iPod.
You can get a $100 casette player with an AUX input if you don't want/need a CD player.
Front Row interface drivin by the Prius's MFD including using it's touch screen to control Front Row.
http://www.kusnetz.net/prius/
Yeah, because people shooting up heroin are generally known for their wisdom in life choices. :)
My Scion tC car stereo came stock with an ipod interface. I plug my ipod into it, and my radio controls let me pick the songs, albums, artists, etc, on the ipod. The stereo display shows the song name, the artist name, the album name, etc. The steering wheel mounted radio controls let me go a track forward/backward, and adjust the volume. And for a bonus, it is charging my ipod at the same time. I'm sure Apple had to be involved somewhere in the mix for licensing and technical documents.
Yes, the driver needs to pay attention to driving. Some of the controls and options available are a little more complicated than hitting the radio channel preset buttons or "seek". But if you setup your playlist before you put it in gear, you're set for a multi-day road trip.
I was looking around for a cable to hook to my GM vehicle's stereo (Pontiac Montana). I was surpised to find, that for the same price (around $100), there were cables that hooked iPods up to the stereo, including the GM stereo's controls and display. Nice integration. I never thought of it, but it indeed a safety factor, as well as a gee-whiz thing. (It came with an iPod holder/charger too, I think.)
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
With a bit of modification, I bet one of these could have a swinging chance at being successful on the road: http://www.elpj.com/
It's a rediculously expensive record player that uses a laser to read the vinyl instead of a needle.
This sidesteps a major problem, which only leaves you with stabilizing the vinyl itself.
All that said, I did a quick google search and found this:
http://ookworld.com/hiwayhifi.html
It seems like there were in-car record players during the '50s and '60s
and they worked
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I'm glad someone's taken my driving skills into consideration.
It's beyond darwinian. He's prepared to take out smart people in other cars.
Wrong. Purely Darwinian. Survival of the fittest based on prevailing environment. Environment full of idiots that shouldn't be driver. Person most able to avoid said idiots most likely to contribute to the gene pool. Of course if not for the never ending supply of idiots eventually there would be no idiots, and the ability to avoid them would no longer be a successful survival trait. In the real world you'll eventually reach an equilibrium where idiots are born and die at a roughly fixed rate. Assuming that not everyone turns into an idiot, the increase in probability of survival based on the idiot avoidance survival trait will be proportional to where that equilibrium is reached.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Most people can't even be expected to react quickly to outside events if they're talking on the phone while driving. Why would we expect anything more if they're not even focusing their eyes on the road, much less their brains.
Have you ever seen the workload a beginner pilot takes on. He's constantly on the radio to ground, has one hand on the yoke or stick, both feet at rudder pedals and his other hand controls throttle and every other instrument that has to be regulated (mixture, prop) and to tune radios and transponder etc. All while flying a small aircraft which if it gets too slow will happily stall and if you're not high enough to recover fall out of the sky, and keeping an eye out for traffic.
Granted this is one reason why flying a plane is harder than driving a car, however what we need is better training so that drivers can cope with distractions, rather than assuming that everyone is a moron who can't multitask. The bottom line is something's always going to be there to distract you. Whether its a cell phone, a radio, the spouse and kids or stuff shifting in the back that you thought you'd secured.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Good point. I've heard that some of them even fiddle with their iPods while driving! (Just bringing things full circle.)
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
No, humans driving cars at all is the problem. 99% or more of all traffic fatalities are caused by human error. This is unacceptable. We need computer controlled cars, possibly on a rail-like system, and we need it 10 years ago. We have had the technology for at least that long. Fatalities would go down, transit time would go down, fuel usage would go down.
Fatalities would go down because the computer won't get distracted. I am not talking about some fancy 'modern' PC running a crashable OS, I am talking about a single-piece 1990s-tech system on a chip running QNX or some other microkernel RTOS. Sure, computers can fail, but it would be no more, an probably far less, likely than any mostly-fatal-at-80MPH mechanical failure.
Transit time would go down because traffic could be coordinated nearly perfectly. No more waiting at a red light while there is no cross traffic in sight. No more light turning red just before you get there.
Fuel usage would go down because the computer could drive more efficiently in general. It could also draft (like those 1-seater toyota concept cars do when they play 'follow the leader'), or even physically connect to another car.
Yes, I know it won't happen in our lifetimes in America due to the danger of lawsuits. But it will happen somewhere else. Soon. And shortly thereafter it will happen just about everywhere else. And then it will finally happen here.
On the other hand, planes aren't normally flown on a crowded piece of tar at a distance of a few metres to tens of metres away from other cars/inanimate objects/schoolchildren.
Of course you realise you'd then have people putting the car into P(ark) at 90mph (sigh)
I said it last month when this issue came up. The studies show it is dividing the attention of your MIND, not particularly your eyes, that is the real problem. As someone who has dodged cars as a pedestrian for decades and has known no fewer than three secretaries who had their fathers run over and killed at stop lights or stop signs, it is an issue I no longer feel much humor for. Beyond their own safety, it would be nice if drivers considered it valuable to pay more attention to the people they might kill.
On the other hand, planes aren't normally flown on a crowded piece of tar at a distance of a few metres to tens of metres away from other cars/inanimate objects/schoolchildren.
No instead they're flown above schools and school children and houses and businesses such as shopping centres.
Also while the general idea is to try to keep 500ft of distance between planes, not only are there intentional exceptions to this rule (airshows, military training etc.), but planes do often come close together at airports, and not just on the runway.
Consider also that the size of a plane varies more than your average road vehicles. From your small light plane to your Airbus A380. Hopefully you're aware of what happens when one of these comes down in a crowded place or slams into a building.
Finally consider the helicopter. They're so unstable in a hover it takes every effort and concentration of the pilot to keep it steady. It takes a lot more skill to be a good helicopter pilot than a good private aircraft pilot. In fact it takes weeks to months for a beginning helicopter pilot to get good at this. Yet these machines are flown quite close together in convoy.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
because a passenger is usually aware of the road conditions and will shut up at the appropriate time
I wish that were true
s/passenger/wife&kids/ and it is easily provable false.
On the phone you can shut the other party up with one push of a button.... wish that were true for wife&kids too.
The driver who thinks he can drive the radio and the car at the same time is the problem.
[...] just the thought process of "hmm...which CD has my Led Zeppelin and which CD has my Devo?" is enough distraction to take my focus off the road.
This is why I generally recommend stuff with a simpler interface for in-car use. Take the iPod Shuffle, for example. Only one control of any relevance: skip to the next track. No worrying about choosing which playlist to use, or going through a menu to find a particular track, or whatever. Just hit the "next track" button if you don't like what's playing right now. Requires virtually zero thought.
These guys make a cap that you can slip your iPod Shuffle into. Maybe you can put the buzz in their ear to do something for the nano and the regularly-sized iPods.
-- secret asIAN man (not Secret Asian Man)
Some of us are LeEt!
;-) I got some funny expressions. LOL, I'm cracking up again just remembering the looks on their faces.
In terms of who has been around a while...I was talking to some kids about music as there are lots of covers out nowadays that are popular and a lot of kids have never heard the originals and I came up with this:
"I grew up before phones had buttons"
Try that one on!
Anyway, we should transition this thread onto 8-tracks right about now.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
The units have standardized dimensions, right? Now that they've done the Hi-Fi, how long will it be before we see an Apple-branded car audio system, if only as an option on a few luxury brands for starters?
Has Apple opened the iPod API/hardware specs then, since it's interested in saving lives? Or is it only the lives of customers of big corporations with whom they enter into partnerships and cross-promotional deals?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Something to prevent you from changing discs, tracks or stations unless the transmission is in park.
That's just a recipe for transmission guts getting spilled all over the freeway.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
The point is not to have the AM/FM and CDs built in (OK, it's not that good a point :) ).
The mp3 CD player I have in my car was $80. It has its faults but it's pretty good for what it is.
Rich
Thanks for bringing up the recharging feature of your setup, I forgot to mention that mine does that as well.
Between the 2 of us, we have almost the ideal setup.
Good news, there's room for improvement. Bad news, there's room for improvement.
As I state when I see a lunatic fly by me more than 20 mph over the speed limit, I hope they don't kill anyone but themselves.
I'd go the other way and put a governor in the iPod. If you're driving more than 70mph, it shuts down.
That laser based record turntable brings analog/digital audio technology full circle. Too bad it only plays black records. If they can overcome that limitation somehow, that would be an accompishment! :)