Law of Unintended Consequences Strikes Grocers

netbuzz writes "The law of unintended consequences is taking a chomp out of grocery chain profits as more stores transition from human clerks to self-service checkout technology, thus reducing the time shoppers spend in line and under the temptation of impulse items. That's the upshot of research being released tomorrow by IHL Consulting Group in Franklin, Tenn., which provides market analysis to the retail industry and its IT vendors."

Comments

My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[plover]

Now that they mention it, I know I've never made an impulse purchase at the self-checkout lanes at Home Depot (but I have at the regular checkout lines.) That's the only store I regularly shop at that uses self-checkout.

However, I refuse to use self-checkout if I have to wait behind any customers. The cashier lanes are always faster, even when they have a line. I can't believe how stupid most people become once they enter the self-checkout lanes. It's scan-scan-swipe, people; in-and-out in about 45 seconds or less; how frickin' hard is that to understand?!? I'm not talking about the people who get stalled because their credit card was rejected, I'm talking about the ones who have to stop and read the full screen after scanning every damn packet of washers in their cart; or who don't seem to understand that the barcodes have to be presented to the lasers, and that no matter how long you stare at a barcode, the scanner won't pick it up. Morons.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[PresidentEnder]

I work at Home Depot, as a cashier. I can back up all of parent's statements; people lose about fifty IQ points when faced with the self checkout. That's why ours have a cashier supervising them.

Think about it. When you're in the self-checkout, you're focused on getting things done, scanning your items (or staring at the barcode wondering what's wrong); when you're at a regular cashier, he's the one doing the work. You sit there and... what? Look around, listen to his dumb jokes, and (more importantly) notice the overpriced altoid knock-offs and useless 37-cent clamps.

That, or it could have something to do with the fact that there usually aren't any impulse items right next to (or in front of) the self check-out registers. Just maybe.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[ejdmoo]

I always proposed a training and certification program for self-checkout lanes. You have to scan your membership (which works at different stores of course) then you can checkout. That way granny won't be wondering why she can't place her items right back into her cart.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[synaptik]

Both you and the GP forgot to mention: the assinine weight scales on those infernal self-checkout machines. I get so tired of hearing "PLEASE PLACE ITEM IN THE BAGGING AREA!" when I've ALREADY PLACED THE FRICKIN' SCANNED ITEM IN THE FRICKIN' BAGGING AREA! You also hear this one when you've filled up all the space on the weigh-scale, and need to move those filled bags back to the shopping cart, to make room for the rest of the crap you've still needing to scan.

Nor did you mention its complement, "PLEASE REMOVE ANOMOLOUS ITEM FROM BAGGING AREA!" just because it thinks the last thing I put there weighs too much.

Damn, those are annoying! It is impossible to get any reasonable throughput on those $#@! self-checkout stands. It routinely takes 2x-3x longer than necessary-- especially if you're buying those little packages of 5 washers-- because of that stupid weight scale. (Yes, I know about the "skip bagging" button, but (a) that's almost just as annoying, and (b) in many retailers, if you hit that button too often, the machine locks up until a human can come make certain you're not trying to steal.

Seriously... just migrate to RFID already, and be done with this weight-scale nonsense!

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[evilviper]

That's why ours have a cashier supervising them.

Here's an idea...

CLOSE THE GOD-DAMMED SELF-CHECKOUT MACHINES, AND PUT THAT LADY BEHIND A CASH REGISTER, SOLVING BOTH PROBLEMS FOR FAR LESS MONEY. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT HOME DEPOT, OF ALL PLACES, SITTING THERE FOR 2 FULL MINUTES TELLING YOU TO PUT YOUR (FEATHER-WEIGHT OR GIGANTIC AND MASSIVE) ITEM IN THE BAG ON THE SENSOR, BEFORE LETTING YOU GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

Of course I may just a little bitter. It is, though, almost gratifying to see my local Home Depot's self-checkout lines entirely abandonded, while the lines at the two open (manned) cash registers go winding through the isles. Gratifying to see it once or twice, that is, as the longer lines and moronic self-checkout machines make me shop at Lowes, now, where they have no self-checkout machines, few cashiers (more than two, of course) and yet practically never any waiting lines.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[CosmeticLobotamy]

I refuse to use them because of the above-mentioned need for your single cotton ball to register as exactly .000001 ounces before it'll let you move on, as well as the equally annoying deafening voice telling me to scan my next item every damn time. Girl-that-lives-in-the-machine, I know where the frigging change is dispensed. And if you're so worried I won't see it, move the damn change dispensor, and stop yelling at me!

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Detritus]

I'm not a professional grocery clerk, so don't bitch about my speed. I often have to look at the package to see where the UPC symbol is located, or unwrinkle it so it will scan properly. Sometimes I have to key in the barely readable number below the UPC symbol when it doesn't scan. Then there's the produce. I picked up several onions, and, no, I'm not an expert on onions. The computer wants to know which of eight types of onions I'm buying. Hell if I know, the round ones.

The store is wasting my time so they can cut their head count. Fuck them.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Simonetta]

It's scan-scan-swipe, people; in-and-out in about 45 seconds or less; how frickin' hard is that to understand?!?

    I'm always the person who messes up in the self-checkout line.

    I'm the one who presses the Spanish language button by mistake instead of the English. No big deal; but I don't know any Spanish. I'm learning grocery line Spanish, though.

    I'm the one who has a jar with 300 pennies that I'm feeding into the coin slot one at a time because I don't want to have to pay a 15% penality at the coin counting machine.

    I'm the one who can't tell the difference between the different types of lettuce, press the wrong type, get overcharged, and insist that the cashier void just that one item.

    I'm the one who buys one six-pack of soda pop and ends up running one can through the scanner six times, get overcharged, and insist that the cashier void just those six items.

    I'm the one who doesn't know the difference between a credit card and a debit card.

    Now, don't you'all just hate me?

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[friedmud]

If you are filling up the bagging area then.... YOU ARE TRYING TO BUY TOO MUCH STUFF USING SELF CHECKOUT!

Self-checkout should be _strictly_ reserved for people who have about 5 things _max_. When I see people with a cart full of groceries pull up to a self-checkout station I just laugh... it will take them _forever_...

On the other hand, I am almost always the guy that is standing in line with just _one_ thing to buy... I have it in my left hand and my debit card in my right. It takes me all of 30 seconds to whip through a self checkout line. Everyone else needs to get the _hell_ out of the way! ;-)

Friedmud

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, I am building a vaction home on my spare time, and I am needing to go to the DIY stores at least twice a week. I stopped shopping at Home Depot just for the fact that they only have 1 real cash register open, with 20 people in line. (Ever try to self-check out with a load of 50 different 8' to 16' lumber pieces and a cart full of 90# bags???)

Lowes has no self checkout things and always has at least 4 people working to check you out. I have averaged at least $500 a week (sometimes a lot more) for the last year to get my stuff. I expect that if I am spending that much money somewhere every week to have some service. Because of this lack of service to save $7/hour, Home Depot has lost my business.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Y0tsuya]

Our local HD added self-checkout lines about 2 years ago. Lowe's followed suit a few months afterwards. Then it was Albertson's turn. I actually liked the self-checkout lines since they're usually shorter and people are getting the hang of it.

I think sometimes people just get spaced out and are not looking at the right indicators/icons/whatever. Last week I spaced out at a 4-way stop for a minute "waiting for the light to turn green". Fortunately there were no cars behind me.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[vought]

On the other hand, I am almost always the guy that is standing in line with just _one_ thing to buy... I have it in my left hand and my debit card in my right. It takes me all of 30 seconds to whip through a self checkout line. Everyone else needs to get the _hell_ out of the way! ;-)

In most places where self-checkout is available (Home Depot, Albertson's, to name two) you'll find that most people are purchasing many more items than self-checkout was designed for, yet there is no sign indicating a suggested item limit for best results...they've always driven me crazy because I try to move too fast for them - so I hear a lot of "Please place item in the bagging area" and "you have removed an item from the bagging area, then it locks up and the cashier has to come over anyway.

I think it's fine for it's intended purpose, but trained, competent, (dare I say union) checkers are far more efficient and I'm hoping that will deter grocery chains from deploying too many of these self-checkout lanes. A store with only self-checkout? Well, that'd be a store with a lot of fistfights.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Ohreally_factor]

How do you know it was just for a minute? Any fresh and unexplained scars on your body? Have you started having headaches? Trouble sleeping at night? Has your car become magnetized? Just before you spaced out, do you remember seeing anything unusual, such as bright flashing lights from above? Lastly, does your butt hurt?

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[packeteer]

Everyone else needs to get the _hell_ out of the way! ;-)

Good ol' America!

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Anonymous Coward]

useless 37-cent clamps.

You know, those are great nipple clamps...
Home Depot is a deviant's best friend - I'm sure you know that already. It doesn't take a genius to figue out what a couple is up to when they come up to the counter (giggling sometimes) with 50 feet of cotton rope, a 1/2" wooden rod and assorted short lengths of chain...

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[shreevatsa]

the lines at the two open (manned) cash registers go winding through the isles.

Whoa, those are really long lines! At least here, the lines stay on the mainland. ;)


*throws 'Hint: aisles' and ducks*

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Anonymous Coward]

The local grocery store here has self-scan checkouts, and they STILL have cashiers standing at the bag-area in order to prevent you from shoplifting. The store has also used the existence of the self-scan area to actually reduce the number of cashiers on duty, so the regular lines are pretty long.

Many times I have been standing in line at the cashier, and the 'wandering' cashier will come up to me and say "You can take your stuff to the self-scan". I use the usual reply:

"Do I get a discount for using the self-scan?"

Of course, they say there isn't, "Well, then I'll stay right here then".

As far as I'm concerned, if you want me to do your job for you, I get a discount. Otherwise I'll stay in line and make you run every piece of crap over that scanner. All the self-scan is is an excuse to not pay cashiers. Demand a discount if they don't want to pay people to checkout your stuff.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[timelorde]

A store with only self-checkout? Well, that'd be a store with a lot of fistfights.

All right, dinner and a show!

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[NihilEst]

OK, Homer. Do me a HUGE favor. Have your hardware geniuses fix those FREAKING SCALES ("bagging area") so they don't vary with barometric pressure or somebody walking by on the floor (no kidding): that's what triggers those "PLEASE PLACE/REMOVE ITEM IN/FROM BAGGING AREA" messages. I know you guys need to stop people from stealing, but please: weighing products to the milligram is just a little extreme. Funny, the conveyor belts at Stop & Shop aren't that sensitive.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[indifferent children]

All of the Home Depots that I've seen in Florida have a separate "Contractor Check-Out". If you are buying 50 pieces of lumber, they probably won't ask to see your 1099 to make sure that you are a contractor. Look into it.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[Anonymous Coward]

First off, I'm going to admit this: I'm an idiot. I'm a systems administrator who can design, implement and maintain Windows and Linux networks, script in Perl and VBScript and I turn into a mouth-breathing, tongue-wagging, drooling moron when I get into the self-checkout lane with anything more than a candy bar and bag of potato chips. There are others like me out there in Slashdot-land. You know who you are. You are not alone.
That said, the design on these things is out of whack, everything's spread out. It's too easy to forget your cash change since where I shop, it's down by my knees. And it's teeeedious to buy fruit and vegetables, scrolling through all those screens trying to find "tomatoes, plum" and wondering if they're all that different from "tomatoes, romano". Press the wrong button and you could be paying more than just a little bit more than should. These things need to be redesigned in a major league way.

One more point is this, and I think it's the most important point of all, where's the wisdom in designing a checkout area that has all this frustration and anger built into the system? Since when do you get in a self checkout line and feel nice and civil to the guy in front of you who can't tell the difference between the types of apples he has to choose from? If you're the merchant, do you really want your customers feeling rage, impatience, and anger to each other? The more I see these things, the more I think the answer to that last question is "Yes".

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[lar3ry]

Here's a suggestion. Scan a dozen items, and then walk away, throwing up your hands in frustration, saying "I can't believe this store wants me to do their job for them!"

Don't pay, don't try to take your "purchases" with you. If a manager sees you do this, tell them flat out that their "self checkout" sucks, and you will not waste another second in this store that has no concept of "customer service" and that you are taking your business elsewhere.

You have every right to decide at the last minute that you don't want to make the sale.

You now have a self-checkout lane that is effectively blocked until a real live human clears out the items from the machine and from the computer tally. That human will probably also have to restock the items, although those items may simply go into a queue area for people whose job is to restock. Either way, it allows you to vent your frustration and make a point. AND... since a real employee has to get involved, it makes the machine slightly less able to become a cost saver.

Heck, have a group of friends "slam" all the self-checkouts this way as a form of organized protest. Include people from a variety of backgrounds, ages, etc. Do it a few times to a store before the management refuses to let you enter the store, and then go on to the next store. Or... do it to a bunch of stores, round-robin, returning to a store a week and a half later when some other manager is on duty. Lather... rinse... repeat. If possible, tell the local news station what you are doing, and see if you can get other people similarly frustrated to join your cause. (The more people doing this, the better!)

It's called "customer feedback."

"This is Carlotta Dryspeckle from WUTM at the local FoodMart, where Ms. Emmageek is staging an unusual protest against the dehumanizing and staff-reducing 'self checkout' system that the FoodMart has recently installed. She and her friends are engaging in what they describe as a harmless demonstration of their dissatisfaction with the system and what the installation of this system says about the FoodMart's view of their customers."

"Hi, Carlotta. We're staging this protest here, and a few of my friends will be going to the HomeGoods Warehouse to do the same thing there next week."

"I'm now speaking to Mr. Mertz, the manager on duty here at FoodMart. Tell me, Mr. Mertz, what is your reaction to this groups' protest?"

"This is a protest? That's incredible. I know we lose a few customers who get frustrated with the machines, but I never figured that anybody might do something like this..."

(Meanwhile, Ms. Emmageek and her friends are singing _Kumbaya_ or _We Shall Not Be Moved_ in the background...)

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[LoudMusic]

I'm not a professional grocery clerk, so don't bitch about my speed. I often have to look at the package to see where the UPC symbol is located, or unwrinkle it so it will scan properly. Sometimes I have to key in the barely readable number below the UPC symbol when it doesn't scan. Then there's the produce. I picked up several onions, and, no, I'm not an expert on onions. The computer wants to know which of eight types of onions I'm buying. Hell if I know, the round ones.

The store is wasting my time so they can cut their head count. Fuck them.

I completely disagree and find your closing statement to not only be ignorant but assinine.

If you have items in your basket that you know you will have difficulty with at the self-check line don't use the self-check line. It's not like they're forcing you to. It's there as a convenience to the shopper.

I for one love the self-check lines. Yes there are people who create bottlenecks, but the longer these devices are in service the more customers who will become accustomed to useing them. And I believe the reason why they often appear abandoned (as someone else mentioned) is not because they're not being used but rather because they are so fast that people spend very little time there. Stand for an hour and watch for yourself during a busy time (perhaps around 6pm on weekdays? I honestly don't know their highwater times) and I'm sure you'll find that a lot of customers breeze through the self-check lines. Someone with more initiative than myself could even check to see the 'rate of items scanned' by the cluster of self-checks monitored by one employee versus an employee-operated checkout line. Our Kroger (grocery store) has four self-checks with one employee - I would imagine during busy hours the throughput of four self-checks is about 50% faster than a single lane employee-operated checkout. In self-check you're dealing with a bunch of smaller quantities, less nimble operators, and a bunch more transactions which take roughly the same amount of time no matter who's operating the machine. But it's all going four at a time.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

man, would it ever suck to be the minimum wager that the manager makes clean out the self-checkout.
I bet you could also convince the store's cashiers to quit as a form of protest. Then you could even burn down the building in protest! and piss on the ashes!
Is overboard a strong enough word for this?

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[ultranova]

unzip;strip;touch;finger;mount;fsck;more;yes;unm ount;sleep

This should be:

unzip && strip && touch && finger & mount && ( ( fsck && more && yes ) ; umount ) ; sleep

When the next step depends on the success of the previous step, you must check the return value of that previous step. Otherwise your code will behave erraneously and possibly even make the end user switch providers.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[everett]

I wouldn't try to do this in America. Any group action that tries to make any sort of societal change is likely to be labelled as terrorism. I suppose in some twisted and sick way this is terrorism of a sort against the store. They're afraid of you causing their customers to leave because you're clogging up their machines, so they make changes (preferably it would be to have people like yourself be requried to pay for your purchase or to restock the shelves yourself as most places only have 'stockers' working three days a week.)

I never understood why people in America feel they have to make someone else's life shittier just to express some point. How about you write a letter, and you get all your friends to write letters, talking about how displeased you are with the service you received. Likely you will be sent some coupons, and maybe exact some changes. However causing me to have to either A) Wait in a regular check-out lane to make my purchase or B) wait for some minimum wage employee to clean up your mess so that I can use the self-check out will likely lead to me becoming very unhappy with your 'cause' and doing my best to see you all arrested for disturbing the peace.

-Everett, no longer a grocery store employee.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[SenatorOrrinHatch]

BS, those machines are designed like crap. Why not just RFID everything and just let us walk out? I used to get paid for scanning groceries, now they won't even give me a sale price unless I have some stupid card in my wallet (along with about 20 others). Those scanners suck and you have to type in codes for half the shit. Plus if there's any problem it takes 15 minutes to get some dipshit manager to override it.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[jahudabudy]

I never understood why people in America feel they have to make someone else's life shittier just to express some point. How about you write a letter, and you get all your friends to write letters, talking about how displeased you are with the service you received.

Mostly, b/c people in America have no faith that rational, reasonable complaint will receive any attention whatsoever. It is an inherent part of the culture that "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". If you don't make people, corporations, government, etc. pay attention to you, they will not. And to be honest, sometimes this is true. The problem is that mouth-breathers dimly grasp this truth, and then go and misapply it in inappropriate situations in inappropriate manners.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[zentinal]

Stop & Shop here in New England has exactly that. You have to prove that you could successfully use the system, including having your purchases quickly double checked by a human, before you could use the system unsupervised.

You scan as you shop. Checkout consists of placing your scanner into the holster. Relatively painless. I wish more stores had it. My local Hannaford's doesn't.

I do agree, however, that shoppers should get a discount for using the system, because we're saving the store labor costs.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[CreatureComfort]

You just got me all hot.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[cttforsale]

I'm an asshole. I go through self checkout with a full cart of groceries. Mostly chips and pop and hogies. I like to spend 30+ minutes at the checkout having the cute self checkout runner come help with every second item that has a problem. They're way more talkative and friendly as I have found regular cahsiers too focused on their task. Sometimes, I miss the impulse items too, so half way through my cart, I'll walk over to the regular checkouts and browse what they have for me to purchase. I also like striking up the random conversation with the people in line behind me. I met this one lady and I know she likes me. She had a nervous, almost angry complexion to her. Maybe I'll see her next time! We're destined to be! There's nothing self about self checkout!
I now have a social life.
Thankyou,
Signed, Slashdot dork
Parent's Basement

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[OakDragon]

You think that's bad? The other day I bought some skin moisturizer. I scanned it, and the machine said "Now it puts the lotion in the basket."

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[LunaticTippy]

Who do you think pays for processing? Surely not your bank! Do a web search for "debit card processing fee rate" or something and you'll find a vast array of bad deals aimed at small businesses. Debit cards are generally cheaper than credit cards, but you'll always pay a per-transaction and a percentage. Big chain stores negotiate down to a floor around $.15+1.5% and for smaller stores you can easily double that.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[DrLlama]

This is one of the reasons I refuse to make use of the self-checkout aisles, and further refuse to do business with stores that are overloading the self-checkout.

The last time I went into my local Home Depot I had a similar experience, with a sligth twist. I had a handful of items and might have made effective use of self-checkout. The line for the self-checkout was over a dozen people long, as was the line at the one open cashier. When this sort of occurence happens I loudly comment that Lowe's seems to be much more concerned about customers and leave the store to make my purchase elsewhere.

On occasion I have taken the time to let the store manager know that I find the situation unacceptable and that his store is losing business as a result. In a WalMart world, this probably won't make a lot of difference, but I refuse to waste my time because the store couldn't be bothered to have sufficient staffing.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[kabocox]

I think it's fine for it's intended purpose, but trained, competent, (dare I say union) checkers are far more efficient and I'm hoping that will deter grocery chains from deploying too many of these self-checkout lanes. A store with only self-checkout? Well, that'd be a store with a lot of fistfights.

Wait until Wal-Mart does RFID right. There won't be any checker because you just push the entire cart straight through an RFID reader and swipe your ATM card through it. That's what people what to use self-check out for not for some stupid 10 or less items. We want to use it for a cart load of stuff at a time.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[nuzak]

> There won't be any checker because you just push the entire cart straight through an RFID reader and swipe your ATM card through it.

Then the parking lot robot will help you load it into your flying car.

Seriously, they will never allow batch checkouts like that because it's simply too easy to take the tags off some items and pass it through in a full cart. People also want bags (you can't take the cart home), and unless you shop at Costco, someone else is going to do it. So what'll happen probably is that you'll get a bagger that bags stuff coming off a conveyer belt that you put your items on (and thus pass through a scanner), and that they'll probably have to manually intervene every dozen items or so. My bold prediction is it won't get any more advanced than that for at least 20 years.

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Hey! Be nice! :D

Re:My statistical sampling of "one" matches theirs

[rthille]

All of a sudden, the data mining that Walmart does turns up this:

"There sure are a lot of people buying nothing but aluminum foil"

unpaid labor...

[macadamia_harold]

The law of unintended consequences is taking a chomp out of grocery chain profits as more stores transition from human clerks to self-service checkout technology

They're also taking a chomp out of grocery chain profits since I refuse to shop at a store that forces me to do their work for them. What's next, stores that make you stock their shelves?

Re:unpaid labor...

[walnutmon]

They are not forcing you to do anything, they are offering you a choice. Wait in line while the vapid clerk checks you out, or BE THE VAPID CLERK.

I agree that self check outs suck, because they are used to cut back on staff, but I don't see it as a grocery store trying to stick it to you. People want them there, because it's their chance to play god, or checkout person. Same thing, really...

Re:unpaid labor...

[Aadain2001]

If they pass the savings on to me, sure. Food ain't free after all.

Re: unpaid labor...

[shmlco]

That explains why the local Wal Mart has 4 self-checkout lanes.

Wait...

Re:unpaid labor...

[jacksonj04]

Youth hostels have the right idea though. I don't mind cleaning up after myself, and as a result I get lower prices.

Perhaps self-checkout should have a 3% price reduction?

Breaking Unions is priceless

[rsilvergun]

10 years ago a grocer's cashier had a career, now he's a 'Courtesy Clerk' earning $6 bucks/hr.

Re:Breaking Unions is priceless

[IANAAC]

Maybe this isn't typical, but I know someone who works at a national grocery chain - and he's pulling in 48K a year, working 34-36 hours a week. Granted, he also does other things, such as stock shelves, inventory, etc. (He's not a manager. His title is "Checker").

I would say that the Union to which he belongs plays a significant role in what he makes.

Re:Breaking Unions is priceless

[symbolic]

That depends - I have a friend who was introduced to the world of grocery not too long ago, and who filled me in on some of the details. For career cashiers (and yes, they do exist), they can be making 2-3 times that. If you happen to get into a "key" position (which typically aren't cashiers), the starting pay can be anywhere from $9/hr or so, up to around $16/hr. That may vary of course, depending on which part of the country you happen to be in.

Re:Breaking Unions is priceless

[egriebel]

10 years ago a grocer's cashier had a career

Surely you must be joking, who would consider hitting buttons like a monkey on Jolt watching crap going by on a moving belt a career? Maybe a "job for life" but certainly not a career. How many little boys or girls say to their parents, "When I grow up I want to be a checkout clerk!"

But, there is a bright side, unlike software development, cashiering cannot be outsourced.

Re:Breaking Unions is priceless

[kchrist]

unlike software development, cashiering cannot be outsourced.

Wouldn't you consider replacing human cashiers with self-checkout machines a form out outsourcing? The end result is the same.

Re:Breaking Unions is priceless

[Zerbs]

I know someone who 3 years ago tried to get a job at a conveniece store as a cashier, they wouldn't take her though because they were in a union, and she had left a grocery store 11 years before that and they said she had to pay 11 years in back dues to the union. What did the union do for her those 11 years? diddly squat!

Over-paranoid machines

[Majik Sheff]

The self-checkout lanes at my local grocer have a sensor system that basically demands staff intervention for every customer. If you don't place the item in just the right spot after scanning, the damned thing is automatically convinced that the user is trying to pull a fast one. The self checkout lanes stand empty most of the time because of it.

in the case of washers..

[512k]

self checkout doesn't work well, because the system checks to see if you honest by weighing what's in your bag.
Washers are so light, that it often doesn't recognize that they're there. So you have to see that it didn't work; read the screen to find out what happened, read the screen to see what to do...rescan, or pick the bag up and put it down on the pad again, read the screen to see if that worked,

wash rinse repeat

I don't buy washers from home depot, but I do buy a packet or two of screws, and this happens all the time.

Condoms and Twinkies

[walnutmon]

Put condoms and twinkies right next to the self check counter... Sit back and reap the benefits!

Re:Condoms and Twinkies

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that a "cover all the bases" impule buy? I mean, stereotypically, either you're in great shape and getting some from women you are not married to, meaning you need lots of condoms, or you just don't care and want the twinkies.

Absolutely...

[evilviper]

I have no time to look at impulse items... I'm too busy slamming my fist against the screen, trying to get the dammed thing to work.

And I'm still waiting to recieve my paycheck for my part-time job as a bag-boy and cashier...

It's not a xenophobic thing. It's a "Those fucking things never work right" thing.

Re:Absolutely...

[Jonner]

Actually, it would be xenophia if you didn't like to use a cashier lane staffed by a foreigner. If you were afraid of the machines, it would be technophobia.

wait a minute...

[jimfinity]

are they implying that those self-checkout lanes are faster?

it seems that every time i go through one of those things i have to get some manager over there to "ok" my purchases. whether it's a "violent adult videogame" (half-life 2) or isopropyl alcohol to keep my car's gas lines freeze free (recreational drinking?).

they've been such a hassle for me i don't even use them anymore.

They'll just add more machines to distract/amuse

[syousef]

Hell a few TV sets with moving content would do it for most of the ADHD cattle out there. Oh look it's my favourite show....oh now it's moved to that screen over there, I think I'll follow...oooohh look a pretty shiny thing. I want to take that home. I'll just add that to my trolley.

Perhaps I should patent this and make a bundle ;-)

Solution: Take a Cue from Vegas

[Ohreally_factor]

The easy solution for this is to follow the lead of Las Vegas casinos. Basically you want to make it as hard as possible to leave the store with money. Hide the registers behind a wall of mirrors. Funnel the customer through a gauntlet of racks of impulse buy goods before the can get to the check out*. Put speed bumps on the floor. Offer free cocktails and a $5.99 prime rib buffet.

*Fry's Electronics already uses this technique.

Re:Solution: Take a Cue from Vegas

[Zontar The Mindless]

I've decided that Hell must be very much like Ikea on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

They are missing the human touch ...

[Empty Yo]

The clerk in my grocery store remembered my name, twice, and flirted with me every time I went in. I took the plunge and asked her out and it turned into quite the summer romance while she was in town. Try that with some self-checkout and you'll be arrested within the minute.

Re:They are missing the human touch ...

[mctk]

This machine in my grocery never learned my name, but was always checking me out. It was always exceedingly patient; its politeness was automatic. It weighed a bit much but had a good interface. Our interactions were always intuitive and natural; I rarely pushed her buttons.

One day, while buying an oversized cucumber, I realized it was flirting me the second time asked me to put the item in the bag. I took the plunge and tried to take it out, but the machine remained unmoved. When I inserted my membership card, she had an exception. Apparently I wasn't endowed with enough capital for her as I was denied and discarded.

boycott self check out.

[Bobartig]

If I wanted to handle my own cart/checkout, I'd have bought it online. When I go to a grocery store or retail outlet, I always use a checkout clerk because the dozen or so times I used self check out, it didn't save me any time. Also, my grocery shopping consists of about 75% fruits and vegetables, and doing those on your own (numeric touch screen that doesn't always recognize the fruit code) definitely doesn't save you time.

There was also a 6 month period where I went to Home depot about twice a week, and bought lumber every time (I was building a lot of stuff). Their self checkout system doesn't (or at least didn't) allow for construction materials purchases, so the self checkout was NEVER an option.

I encourage others not to use self check outs, and spend a few extra minutes in line. That way, the big expensive machine that they replaced two humans with doesn't provide them any utility.

cashiers are better

[focitrixilous P]

I have the unfortunate honor of working in a retail position to support my education. A Target namebadge in plain view from my desk at school serves as a very good reminder to stay focused.

I never really saw the attraction of the self checkout as a serious shopper. When I went out for food with college buddies we'd all hit the self checkout if there was no line as a competition, too see who could avoid having the machine flip out at you for doing something wrong. Because we went so fast, we had to have an attendant come bail us out a couple times. Without fail, someone who had gone through a normal checkout was standing at the door waiting for us. I could probably do it now with my 1337 retail skills, but really the self checkout is a joke. It's boring conversation, and you have to bag your own stuff, just so some company makes an extra dime that you'll never see.

Support college students. Go through a normal line.

Re:cashiers are better

[jayloden]

I used to work as a cashier at a grocery store, and I've worked as a cashier in a department store as well. I'd like to think that I was a pretty good one (fast and efficient), too. Unfortunately, I can attest to the fact that this does not imbue one with any inherent speed at the self-checkout lane.

It's a question of familiarity. When I was a cashier, by the end of the first day or two of training, I was pretty familiar with the setup; I was using it all day. You start scanning as fast as it will go, hitting the buttons, and looking ahead at what you're about to scan so you can be prepared for produce etc. Self-checkout, on the other hand, is a whole different ballgame.

Every one of those self checkout lanes is a different setup, and I'm just not familiar with it. That means I have to take a few extra seconds to read the screen for each item, fight with the bagging scale, etc. Add that up over your typical checkout and it means it just takes longer than standing in line. *But* - and here's why these things are still successful at all - it's not the length of time it takes to get out of the store. It's the length of time it takes for something to start happening. I guarantee that if you had one person start self checkout immediately and another wait in line, even if the person who waited in line was done first, they'd feel like they were there longer. It's instant gratification, something is happening right away, regardless of whether it's more or less efficient.

Your BLAME is Misplaced

[DumbSwede]

Actually as a computer programmer I lay most of the blame on the bad design of the scanning systems. The scanner in one location the scale in another, often far flung, location, the credit card swipe in still another location, even down below eyesight. Worse yet as with many ATMs machines there are TOO MANY BUTTONS for what should be only ONE OPTION enter PIN and PAY! Not only are there too many buttons, but the onscreen instructions often are worded differently than the keys you have to press. "PRESS YES" out of the extra 10 buttons only an "OK" seems to map to "YES." It may seem obvious to you that OK is YES, but you have to read each key to eliminate the possibility that YES is an Option, this takes time, not just to read, but to double check you are doing it correctly. I don't know how many stores I have shopped at that put those kindergarten silver or gold stars by the keys, then verbally tell you to ignore the instructions and hit the "GOLD STAR". Often the screen will have option layout that would map to 4 function keys, but the keypad doesn't really have function keys in that location. Add to this that at auto-checkouts there's usually no one there to assist you, you usually have to figure this all out on your own. It is a money transaction, so if you are like me with an unfamiliar interface, you double, triple, quadruple check what you are doing.

BUT worst of all, instead of one crappy layout system used by all stores, THEY ALL SUCK, BUT DIFFERENTLY. Name me one chain that has these machines well made? In time, someone will come up with a decent layout and everyone will adopt it and it will seem silly we had these problems but we're not there yet.

HERE's an idea, put stick on scan labels by all the veggies so once bagged they can just be weighed and scanned instead of having to key in the code by HAND -- WTF???. Make the labels big with not just the code but large with print of what the veggie is so people aren't too tempted to cheat the system. A computer voice should also echo the entry (I believe most systems already do this).

Many systems I have seen seem cobbled together from unrelated discrete components -- THIS WILL NOT DO.

I WORK IN SQA AND I WOULD NEVER SIGN OFF ON THIS SHIT! Forgive my language, but its us, the IT professionals to blame here -- NOT EVERYDAY FOLK who

Re:Your BLAME is Misplaced

[Anonymous Coward]

Worse yet as with many ATMs machines...

The proper phrase you're looking for is: automated ATM teller machines.

Re:Your BLAME is Misplaced

[kt0157]

Just another example of RAS Syndrome (RAS = Redundant Acronym Syndrome).

K.

Re:Your BLAME is Misplaced

[PopeRatzo]

Parent makes a lot of sense here. I mostly see self-checkout at the grocery store, and unlike most of you who live on cheetos and Mountain Dew, I tend to buy at least some produce every time I shop. And the process for self-checking produce just sucks. Personally, I'd rather see more regular checkout lanes. I like to see other people with jobs, even if it costs me a few cents more each time I shop. And it gives me a chance to read the tabloids.

RFID (forgot to go to plaintext before)

[Ethan Allison]

Why not use those 5 cent RFID tags?

Place your shopping cart in the scanner and hit a button.

"But what about produce?" you ask? Well, how about RFID-enabled bags with specific tags for each kind of produce?

Sure, it's not perfect, but it could be refined.

Plus people could return the tags for store credit, and information embedded in the tags could be used to manage inventory and tell robotic machinery how to bag and/or stock the items.

Also, if you steal my idea, I will hunt you down.

Up-Sell X80 Autmoted Checking Machine

[walnutmon]

X80: "Good Day Sir, Please Scan First Item"
Consumer: (Scans taco mix)
X80: "Ah, Taco Mix, very nice, I noticed that you seem to have chosen the generic taco mix, are you sure you have thought this through?"
C: (Selects "yes")
X80: "Have you given much thought to the consequences involved in buying generic taco mix? What will your children say?"
C: (Selects "I don't have any children")
X80: "Ah, I see, single guy, living it up, not too concerned about the quality of your taco mix. Are you in a relationship?"
C: (Selects "Not really, Girls don't like me very much")
X80: "I am sorry to hear that sir, it probably makes you feel pretty bad at night, trouble sleeping?"
C: (Selects "Yeah, some times my mind wanders at night")
X80: "How about some tylenol PM? Also, I would like to recommend this issue of Maxim, it has some great advice on picking up women in the clubs, and also some great pictures to jack off to, you know, if things are a bit slow to start"
C: (Selects "OK")
X80: "Great Sir! I'd say this is probably working out to be one of the better shopping experiences you have had recently. Not going to want to make a mess out of that magazine though.... Tisues?"
C: (Selects "Absolutely! I want the ones with lotion.") (Then mumbles to himself) "This thing is great, so much less embarrasing than dealing with those pretty young checkout ladies."
X80: "Your additional Items will be here in one moment"
Beautiful Checkout Assistant: "Hi... uh... this is your girly mag, and tissues for masturbation sir... and here is the tylenol... so your depressed ass can get to sleep at night... you are a pretty sick person, you know that?"
C: "..."
X80: "Women can be pretty damn cruel, don't you think sir? How about a rope?"
C: (Selects "no thanks, get me out of here")

"Item Removed From Bagging Area"

[alphasubzero949]

I absolutely detest self-checkout machines for many of the reasons already discussed here, but my biggest pet peeve happens when you run out of room in the bagging area. If you dare remove something the machine will throw a fit until it is put back. If you barely scoot your already scanned items over, the machine will think that something was pulled out and will nag you.

And how is fighting with these machines like this supposed to save time?

Did we lose a war?

[bit trollent]

Am I the only one who still wonders to himself, "How the hell did this happen to us?" as I scan and bag my own groceries. I mean, I really feel like someone got the uperhand on me.

If we ever conquer Iraq, I hope someone puts self checkout lines in their supermarkets. Then they will know what slavery really is.

PLEASE SEE EMPLOYEE FOR ASSITANCE

[Ponzicar]

I scan an item and put it on the scale; PLEASE REMOVE OBJECT FROM THE COUNTER. I take it off; PLEASE RETURN ITEM TO THE COUNTER. BEEP BEEP BEEP PLEASE REMOVE ITEM FROM THE COUNTER. I then walk to the normal line and get checked out while the machine is still throwing a temper tantrum from my anomalously weighted loaf of bread.

I hate self checkout lines

[CTalkobt]

If they'd lower the prices of my groceries I'd go through the lines but since they don't / won't - I won't.

The more efficiencies that you put in the market the less you cycle the money: IE: Spend $100 paying an individual. That person will then spend $50 of that $100 on something. The 3rd person will then spend $5 of that $50 spending something. Fourth person spending $1 - total money in circulation for spending money is $156.

In real life the multipliers for money are much higher (8x I think). The more you cut individuals at low-end jobs the more you decrease the overall US economy, or at least drive the profits into the higher income segment.

Again, lower the price to get me to go through the lines. I shouldn't have to do the grocery store's work for them.

Re:I hate self checkout lines

[Anonymous Coward]

*sigh*

All money inflows and outflows must balance at the end of the fiscal period.
There is no money flowing into oblivion as your analysis would suggest. Increased efficiency is better for the economy as a whole regardless of initial distribution. In the long run, the decreased costs from increased efficiency will be passed on to the consumer when companies are forced to compete for business. Also, some people may lose their jobs to these machines, but that does not mean suddenly all that money has gone away.
For the time being, it travels into the company as profits. (See previous note about eventual passing on of savings to consumer.) What is this company going to do with this money you ask?

• Hire more R&D people to create newer technologies further increasing efficiency
• Pay out more dividends
• Open new stores (and thus hire more people again)
• Expand/Renovate existing stores (employing new labor in form of construction and additional store personnel)
• Bonuses to big wigs *gasp* *shock* *horror* - Okay... so then they either invest in stocks, deposit in banks, or buy something... all of which put the money back into circulation

Anyways.. the point is that money never disappears as a result of a transaction. Every person's and every business's balance sheet has to balance at the end of the day. It's just that simple. You can not spend what you do not have. And you can not use the money you made unless you give it to someone else (Note: burning your money doesn't usually provide good results, though you are helping to reduce inflation).

Re:I hate self checkout lines

[Sloppy]

By that reasoning, what the economy really needs is more terrorism, war, and natural disasters. What a boon it must be to the economy, for a destructive hurricane to wreck a city and create a bunch of contracting jobs. If only someone would press the big red button and launch all the world's nuclear missiles -- it would circulate so much money that poverty would be virtually eliminated.

Re:I hate self checkout lines

[evilquaker]

By that reasoning, what the economy really needs is more terrorism, war, and natural disasters. What a boon it must be to the economy, for a destructive hurricane to wreck a city and create a bunch of contracting jobs.

I know you're trying to be clever, but your argument is indeed correct. In general, natural disasters are net positive for the economy, as the temporary loss of economic activity is offset by the future rebuilding and enhanced productivity. War (that doesn't happen on your soil) is similar. The largest YoY % changes in US GDP in the 20th century happened in the early 40's, as WWII helped pull the US out of the Great Depression.

Re:I hate self checkout lines

[Eric Sharkey]

In general, natural disasters are net positive for the economy

It scares me that people out there actually think like this.

This line of thinking is discussed in The Parable of the Broken Window and is easily dismissed as bunk in any serious analysis.

They don't mention

[antifoidulus]

All types of random currency the self-check out machines end up with. Pro-tip: 1 yen coins work as pennies in the wal-mart check out line!

Re:They don't mention

[bshroyer]

Pro-tip: 1 yen coins work as pennies in the wal-mart check out line!

That's one of the more absurd tips I've ever heard.

At the current spot exchange rate, 116 yen per USD, I stand to save a MAXIMUM of 14% (1/1.16) by using Yen coins in place of pennies.

Not to mention the fact that, for purchases larger than, say, a pack of gum, the opportunity cost of time spent on line feeding coins into the slot quickly eats up any gains I may have enjoyed in the transaction.

Here's a better tip:

The 1AED coin (United Arab Emirates) is exactly the same size as the US quarter dollar. However, it's worth 10% more than the US quarter, so this trick only works in automated grocers in Dubai. Good luck!

"Law of Unintended Consequences" origin?

[andy17null]

Did this phrase originate in The Path Of Daggers, Book 8 of the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan? That's the only place I've seen it.

"She could still hear Siuan going on about what she called the Law of Unintended Consequences, stronger than any written law. Whether or not what you do has the effect you want, it will have three at least you never expected, and one of those usually unpleasant."

Re:self-checkout is fine by me

[friedmud]

I'm with you... I hardly ever have problems as well.

Like I said in an earlier post... people just need to realize when and when not to use self-checkout. When buying produce I almost always realize this and stand in line. But, that's the odd occasion, I'm almost always just picking up that _one_ item my wife forgot... and for that self-checkout is a life-saver.

Also... you are spot on about the condoms. I can remember being a teenager when self-checkout first came to our Wal-Mart (we were one of the first to trial it)... I thought that God himself had answered my prayers with a discrete way to purchase personal items... to this day I still use self-checkout for those purposes (only now I'm usually buying feminine products in _HUGE_ quantities instead ;-)

I think it's interesting that so many geeks don't like self-checkout. With our leet computer skills you would think that we would be drawn to it like moths to a flame... but that doesn't appear to be the case.

Friedmud

Let's see automated checkouts handle bulk foods...

[mark-t]

Okay, the customer goes and gets a few scoops of some stuff, putting it into a baggie. He slaps a UPC code on the bag for the bin he got the product out of, and takes it to the checkout for weighing...

Except... how, in an automated checkout, does the system know that what the UPC code says is in the bag is really in the bag? What if he made a mistake a grabbed the wrong UPC code for the product, or worse... what if he was deliberately trying to swap codes with another, cheaper product?

A human teller can identify the mistake right then (and in all fairness, should give the consumer the benefit of the doubt, assuming it was a mistake), but a computer will just blindly allow it.

Rarely

[Atario]

I'm too busy slamming my fist against the screen, trying to get the dammed thing to work.

As a technical-type guy, I should add that machines of any kind (indeed, any things of any kind) rarely can be made to operate any better by slamming one's fist against any part thereof.

You know, just for future reference.

Stick on scan patches..

[pijokela]

I was in the US for the first time last summer and I war really surprised to learn that the cashiers weigh the fruit and stuff on the counter. Here is Finland we weigh them on the fruit and veggie department and get a stick on barcode label that they read on the counter.

And guess what: they trust us to not add stuff after weighing, the cashier doesn't have a scale.

OTOH, we don't have self checkout lanes and the cashiers do not pack our stuff in to bags as we leave.

Re:Stick on scan patches..

[Siward]

I remember produce scales and a bar tag system in stores here in the States. I think the problem here (as with most of the other complaints in these comments) is that most Americans (and perhaps people in general) aren't observant. What would the cashier do if someone brought this fruit up to the register without a bar code? Call a manager? Wait while the customer goes back to weigh the item again? Neither of those are great solutions. The grocery stores I shop at solve this problem by pre-packaging items that are typically sold by weight (such as grapes) and selling others (such as apples or bananas) as amount per fruit/vegetable, and that suits me just fine.

I think some of the other problems mentioned in these comments break down into common sense. Do hardware stores really need self-checkout lanes? Did anyone with any training in technical design and usability look this checkout process over? Self-checkout lanes make a lot of sense (to me) in grocery stores where the customer isn't likely to buy extremely light or extremely bulky goods (though both of these exist in grocery stores, I admit), but grocery stores seem prone to placing the change dispenser/receipt printer as far away from the scanner as possible, and in the hardest-to-find places. Sometimes it seems like corporations lack common sense even more than the average person.

Re:Stick on scan patches..

[plover]

we weigh them on the fruit and veggie department and get a stick on barcode label that they read on the counter.

That used to be commonplace here in the U.S. as well. Believe it or not, it's now cheaper to buy a thousand dollar scanner/scale for each cash register than it is to have several self-weighing stations in the produce aisle. Here's why:

• Reduced theft. It eliminates a temptation for people who might otherwise try to cheat the scales. Not only is theft expensive, but investigation and prosecution are also expensive, and they engender hard feelings amongst everyone involved -- both the alleged thief and any other store patrons who witness store security having to confront a little old lady trying to shave a dollar off the price of grapes.
• Reduced operational costs. Those stickers that print out are expensive! Thermal stickers can cost over ten cents each for the blank stock. No stickers are needed if the register weighs the merchandise.
• Reduced maintenance costs. The scales cost almost as much per year to cover on a maintenance contract as a whole cash register. The scanner/scales at the register only add incrementally to the cost of a register's maintenance contract; it's not nearly as much as maintaining a parts depot for a completely different machine. Don't ask me why the service companies price things the way they do, we just take advantage of it when we can.
• Increased shelf space. Setting aside 6 square feet for a scanner and small work table removes 6 feet of shelf space that could otherwise be offering merchandise for sale. Stores figure their sales on a square foot basis, and those six feet could theoretically be generating something like a thousand dollars per year or more if they held products instead of a scale.

It's all economics. Someone did the math, so that's where it ended up.

Amen brother! We need a special lane

[NevarMore]

I would pay a slight premium for a special checkout lane.

I tend to go grocery shopping once every other day, sometimes daily. It's a habt I got into last year and living in Germany has only reinforced it. I buy a few fresh items, a drink or two, and some essentials (razors, soap, lube etc.). I very rarely have any more than a shopping basket full, I usually can carry what I bought in my hands.

When I get to the register I already have my cash or my credit card out. I've been paying for things at stores since I was 5, I don't see how people can act surprised (watch them, they do) when the cashier gets done zapping things and asks for some form of payment.

Let me through. It isn't a personal ego thing, I'm simply going to zip right through the line and be on my way. Its common courtesy.

On a related note, Wal-Mart shoppers in Northeast Ohio. If you see a man walking to the register and he is carrying a pack of razorblades, 2 boxes of roundnose .45, and a pack of paper targets with his credit card ready, it is exceedingly rude and possibly unwise for you and your troupe of loud running children to cut him off. I had plans this afternoon, relaxing enjoyable plans, that are now delayed for 15 minutes while you sort out what candy your kids threw in the cart and what candy your fat ass bought.

Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane

[PhoenixPath]

(razors, soap, lube etc.)

Odd group of "necessities" there...

You weren't perhaps an inmate in the German prison system, were you?

Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane

[elrous0]

According to the actuary tables, I'm most likely to die either of manual asphyxiation exacerbated by severe electrical shock or from a feces-born parasitic infection. Do you want to know why?

-Eric

Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane

[Hoi Polloi]

"I tend to go grocery shopping once every other day, sometimes daily."

Try making fewer trips to the store. You must spend most of your week going back and forth to the market. If you know you go through so much lube a month just buy it ahead of time.

Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane

[juuri]

It's a city culture thing. Many people hit the corner market/grocery on the walk or bike road home. You never keep too much in the house because there's no need with such an availability of options. Personally I hit my local market two to four times a week, each trip taking under 15 minutes and since it's on my way home it's just a natural part of my traveling routine.

Re:Amen brother! We need a special lane

[_Swank]

where the hell do you get your fresh food that it goes bad within a day of purchasing it? because you've got to start shopping somewhere else.

additionally, if you're buying a weeks worth of fruit, it's a good idea to buy at varying levels of ripeness. that way you can eat them when they're properly ripe.

People aren't stupid the machines are horrible

[technoextreme]

I work at Home Depot, as a cashier. I can back up all of parent's statements; people lose about fifty IQ points when faced with the self checkout. That's why ours have a cashier supervising them.

No. You just think that is the reason why the cahsiers are there. The real reason why is those machines fail pretty often. It's a pretty common occurance where the machine thinks that I didn't place an item into the bag but I did. Usually happens where the item's weight is pretty variable from item to item(ie Baked goods, nuts,washers, etc etc). The problem is that the thing relies on weight. The machine locks up and then you need someone to over ride the machine.

Re:People aren't stupid the machines are horrible

[Chelloveck]

On the other hand, oh yes, oh yes, the people who use those things are slow as turtles.

The few times I've had the "pleasure" of using the self-scan machines, it was the machine that was slow as a turtle. I scan one item, put it down, scan the next immediately... "Please place the first item in the bagging area." It's there, you freakin' machine! So I have to pick it up and put it back down, then scan the second item again. If I ever scan one item within a second of putting the previous one down, I get to do the dance all over again. The... machine... forces... me... to... go... slow...

The only time I'll use those stupid machines is when I have exactly one item and there's no line. Otherwise, I'll wait for a human cashier. The human line may take longer on a busy day, but it saves me a huge amount of frustration.

Of course, at the stores I usually go to I've also learned which cashier's line never to get in, even if it is the shortest. These must be the people the machines are geared for, 'cause damn they're slow!

NEEDED - 'new shopper' lines vs 'experienced'

[mgkimsal2]

The self-checkout lanes need 'done this before' aisles and 'new to tech' aisles. Not sure how best to word it, but that's a far better indicator of how quick you're going to get through vs. how many items someone has. I almost feel cheated when I go through self-service lanes (or ATMs) because I never get to take much time. I swear people in front of me at ATMs must sometimes be trading stocks or applying for a mortgage considering how long it takes them to insert the card and get $20 out.

Nah, the farking things just don't work...

[maillemaker]

>I work at Home Depot, as a cashier. I can back up all of parent's statements;
>people lose about fifty IQ points when faced with the self checkout. That's
>why ours have a cashier supervising them.

I always thought the reason you have a cashier supervising them was because the FUCKING SELF CHECKOUT MACHINES DON'T FUCKING WORK.

I've all but given up on "self-check out".

Self check-out means wagging your purchase over the scanner at 15 different angles waiting for the "beep" of success, and then putting the thing in the bag only to have the computer continue to ask me to put it in the bag. Or randomly being told to "please wait for assistance" so the supervising cashier can come blindly type in some code and overwride the error. And all for the joy of then walking out the door and setting off the shoplifting alarm.

Further, if I'm going to do the job that used to get done FOR me, I should get some benefit for it, like a discount.

Steve

They'll fix it

[jmv]

more stores transition from human clerks to self-service checkout technology, thus reducing the time shoppers spend in line and under the temptation of impulse items

Don't worry, soon you'll be waiting forever in line just to go through the self-service checkout

Re:Cash and Carry

[Ellis D. Tripp]

Every self-checkout I ever used took cash via the same kind of bill acceptor and coin slot found on a vending machine. Even gives you change back...

And difficult to use your own bags, too.

[dmatos]

That's what bugs me the most. I have cloth shopping bags so I don't have to keep throwing out those horrible plastic sacs that always rip on the way home. Is there any reasonable way to bag while you're scanning? No. I have to stack the items on the scale, then when I've paid, pack them into my bags. Can't put the bag on the scale (Please remove unauthorized item), can't place items into bag on the floor (Please place your item in the bag). Most of my shopping is done by bicycle, so I just want to throw everything into my backpack or panniers.

This is just one of the reasons (that loud, annoying voice is another) that I won't use the self-checkout if I'm buying more than two items. In fact, I also lodge complaints about them with the cashiers and store managers while I'm at it. Not that it makes any difference, I'm sure. *sigh*

The time saved is your discount

[TonyGreene]

If there are lines at the cashier lines, an available self-checkout, and I have only a few simple items, I'm going with the self-checkout. I count those 5-10 minutes (and the associated aggravation) as part of the price I pay to get things from that store. Okay, so I'm impatient. I don't lash out, I mind my own business, and I make choices about where & when I shop with both my impatience and finances in mind. There have been plenty of times when I spent a little more for convience.

One thing I'm definitely not going to do is stand in a long line in order to "force" the store into giving discounts for self-checkout. My time is more valuable to me than that.

--Tony

Mystery solved!

[LunaticTippy]

Here is how it happens:

They cost less to install.
Management doesn't use self-checkout.

...this is why I shop at Trader Joe's now!!!

[flipmack]

a few years ago here in Southern California, all of the major grocery/supermarket chains had their unions go on strike...which resulted in MONTHS of long lines. the result of the strikes? the unions got to keep their jobs, get more benefits, not fire anyone, AND have the self-checkout counters made available. SO, less work for the union folks but with the same if not more benefits. a LOT of people became angry because of this...so many more people decided to find other non-union grocery chains, i.e., Trader Joe's. The funny thing is that it's actually CHEAPER to shop at Trader Joe's, the people who work there are nice and helpful, and the food is healthier, granted, the selection is limited. Nowadays, *IF* I ever have to step inside a union-staffed grocery store, even if I buy just a pack of gum, I'm going to make a checker scan it for me...and I'll insist that someone bag it. if you're going to strike for months and cause a big uproar, then you're going to check my single item and bag it.

Reminds me of a certain vending machine

[Moraelin]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far aw... err... a few years back, when Germany's currency was still the DM, I remember using a vending machine in a railways station. And getting a Polish 10 Zloti coin instead of a 1 DM as part of the change. The coin was remarkably similar to 1 DM in size and weight.

The difference between the two was bigger than between the yen and cent, though. A DM was (later) worth half an euro, while the 10 Zloti... well, let's just say that the difference between 1 DM and 10 Zloti was 1 DM :P

I'm guessing whoever it was did it more than with that one coin, since pretty soon all vending machines in town had been tweaked to the point where they routinely rejected genuine 1 DM coins too. They swallowed any other coinage just fine, but 1 DM required several tries and some of the 1 DM coins just didn't work at all any more.

Now I don't know what actually happened there, but my favourite wild uninformed guess (or conspiracy theory, if you will) is that it was done so they'd reject the 10 Zloti coins. Unfortunately the difference between them was so small that it also rejected some of the real coins.

Wow

[baalz]

I'm amazed at the vitriol coming out of all the geeks on this one. I guess a lot of people have had really bad experiences, but I would have expected interprising. I tell you what though, I love the self scan lanes BECAUSE of the fact that they are a little clunky and you have to learn how to use them. Why is that? Because 9 out of 10 times there is no line at all - its like having my own reserved lane and I figured out a long time ago how to work it. You just have to be smart enough to know when its the right tool for the job. You don't want to go there with your fully stuffed grocery cart (let the professionals handle that scanning) or stuff you know it has problems with (why in the hell would you try more than once to buy washers on one of these?), but if you're just buying a couple things for dinner, or just stopped by to get that box of nails you needed they make the perfect express lane.

On the topic of bad ATM design..

[gregmac]

Why don't they make the card readers have a magnetic stripe reader in BOTH SIDES? There are so many people (including me) that get it backwards, or even just spend a few seconds looking at it trying to decipher which way the picture is showing to slide the card. Every machine has a different picture, and sometimes the pictures are so bad that it's impossible to tell anyways, or even after you study it, you get it backwards.

Of course, the other way to solve the problem is to put a magnetic strip on both sides of the debit card.. but I haven't seen that done yet either.