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What Happened to Media PCs?
timrichardson writes to tell us that Slate is asking what happened to the promises of a living room PC? The lack of any news at Apple's WWDC prompted the author to look at the promises made at the Consumer Electronics Show a la Viiv and other "uber-consoles" in addition to the launch of Apple's downloadable videos and "couch-surfing remote." While some pundits blame the state of the technology this article claims that the PC and the TV provide two very different roles that aren't going to converge anytime soon.
I think the demand simply isn't there, I wouldn't blame the technology. The majority of people wouldn't see the point, or understand the possibilities. Many people still struggle with TV remotes...
By and large, people want to spend money on their plasma displays, not "uber-consoles".
What's your GCNSEQNO?
Nobody surfs porn in the living room!
It wasn't shown for the same reason new ipods weren't shown: they are consumer products. Wait for Macworld.
Computer = active entertainment.
TV = Passive.
TV in the home is essentially radio with pictures. When's the last time you made a point to listen to a radio program, and only listen to a radio program in your home? I'd stop everything when I was younger to listen to Royal Canadian Air Farce or my tapes of Eclectic Circus, but other than that.
Computer's can't do that. Even the most banal of websites requires more of your attention than a TV show or radio, and then there's gaming, which is a 100% immersive, active experience.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
I always hoped this idea would die a horrible death. First, because SDTV offers horrible resolution and the image is so blurry it's useless as a PC. Second, the interface sucks, and even with a wireless keyboard, it just doesn't work for most people in the living room. Even with a HDTV and wireless devices, it's more of a niche role.
I think the console game systems fill this niche, but not in the "living room PC" sense of the word. We have devices that offer living room gaming, DVRs, but not a "computer on the TV." Thank God! Every effort so far has sucked, not just because of its own merits (e.g. WebTV) but because the two ideas just don't mesh well. Maybe they will later on, but it's nothing I'll hold my breath for.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
What happened to the MP3 phones? They lost out to devices that can do the job better and cheaper. The same with media PC's. Given the size restrictions, media PC's performance are heavily watered down and harder to interface with (a remote that gives you little control or a mouse on a couch), so when you expect a full on media experience you instead get a mediocre one. You could buy a decent home theater system that's more powerful for around the same price, sans PC functionality.
I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
While I agree with TFA that people simply aren't ready to turn PCs into TVs and vice versa, maybe they're overly harsh on the Mac. It doesn't have video in/out features, nor do any Macs have integrated TV tuners... The remote is the only media-center-esque feature on the Macs, but that hardly means Apple meant to make it a media center machine.
The problem is really one of cost and usability. An HTPC costs too much. When confronted with the option of the $100 set top box provided by the cableco vs. a $600 HTPC, what is the obvious choice for the average user? Not to mention the set top box is plug and play, and requires no finangling with software (or God forbid, Windows).
I'm sure many home users would love to have the power of MythTV, but until we can build a MythTV box for $300 and make it plug-and-play and config-free, it simply won't take off in the mainstream.
Dunno about other markets, but in Finland name brand media PCs keeled over and died due to immense suckage of Windows Media Center Edition.
- No official support for DVB-C cards (large chunk of the country gets TV using cable, and DVB-C), cutting down potential market
- No support for DVB subtitling (used by finnish national broadcasting company YLE), decimating the leftover market
- Generally crappy DVB support - and analog transmissions end next year over here
- Horrendously complicated install on selfbuilt systems (whitebox PCs are more common over here than in many other countries) coupled with difficulties in actually obtainining MCE legally without buying an OEM system.
Most 'Media PCs' built over here tend to be selfbuilt, using linux or WinXP with separate software, and it's non-trivial to set one up, so they are still a niche market.
I'm sure the big name OEMs will try again when they get Vista with MCE features, and proper DVB-T/DVB-C and DVB subtitling support.
Too many of them.
Most video files are problematic.... they uses wrappers (AVI, QT) so most people throw any CODEC they feel like using (DivX 3 for video, VBR MP3 for audio even though the AVI specs don't really allow it AFAIK) and we end up with a mess of incompatible files unless you install 500 different CODECs.
Screw AVI, screw Quicktime. Use MPEG-4/H.264 and AAC. Depending on the video size, bitrate and all, they can play on OS X, Windows, Linux, PSP, GBA (with Play-Yan micro), PDAs, etc.
Thanks in advance.
The crux of the matter is content. This is why the jury's still out on Viiv. Until now, online content has been rather cruddy, in large part due to Hollywood's fears (probably legit) of movie piracy. Until we see some serious revolution in content, the PC will not be the center of your living room. The kind of content that would make systems like Viiv strong contenders would have to be dual PC-movie theater releases... Don't see this happenin' too soon
Living room PCs with the media software (this includes the ATI All-in-wonder line of products) don't deal with HDTV. I can't get a DVD-rom drive that upconverts DVDs to the HDTV. I can't get a HDrom for the computer, and unless I go with a brand name build even if I got my hands on a HDrom it wouldn't work on the PC. Not to mention the HDrom software would keep trying to phone home to mother.
Now a bedroom media PC, that I have.
Content. Content. Content. Just like in real estate (location location location) these are the three things media corps care about the most. Until they make it easy (i.e., open standardized protocols) for information to be moved around, any media center is going to be locked in to proprietary difficult to use formats and only /. esque users will really be able to take advantage of these possibilities. The average user will never pay for something they need to spend more than 5 min trying to get to work. Trying new approaches to media delivery and exchange is veerrryy scary for corps that think their livelihood depends on "owning" the rights of Green Acres and Two's Company.
DNA, the splice of life.
Ehh. I have an LCD monitor setup where a TV would be in my living room. It's used as a computer when I'm alone, generally. And as a TV when guests are over. Or when I want to watch something from the couch. Just move the damn desk chair. :P
You don't need a remote to have a TV, you couch potatos. :P And in any case, you can buy them for PC.
For computing in the den, give me a laptop.
For my entertainment-center, give me a DVR or something similar.
Sure, they are both computers on the inside, but for most "computing" tasks like email, office work, etc. I'd rather use a laptop or desktop, not stare at a screen several meters away.
I can think of one major exception: anything that involves two people sharing a single physical display, such as videoconferencing or playing a multi-player game.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
so it not going to happen? Seriously, this is going to happen one way or another. Just because the PC might not be used for browsing the web doesn't mean we won't see in in some form. Its already here if you consider a Tivo.
Wait a year.
Apple is poised to make the Mini an on demand movie replacement for your TV.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Nothing new to see here. Move right along.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Its just a matter of the average buyer not being technologically literate enough to drive demand. It's the blinking 12 problem. Turn on, Tune in, Drop out. If you want one, there's nothing stopping you from rolling your own. Or if you have the cash, you can pay thousands more and get pre-assembled and set-up. But don't expect any of the this stuff to ever go mainstream, hell TiVo is a hard enough sell already, and the advantages there ought to be blindingly obvious (It's a VCR that'll automatically record your favorite shows!)
Absolutely nobody wants to give up enough control to make the media-center PC practical (therefore possible).
Media companies are scared that you can edit out commercials, make copies, etc. Tech companies are scared to death of being sued by the media companies, and also trying their hardest to get the kind of propritary lock-in with media files that Microsoft has with Windows.
The open source projects are actually doing alright, but it's a lot of work to set-up. Get a good source for XMLTV, and start distributing user-friendly Linux distros with every possible Freevo/MythTV feature enabled (one-click DVD-mastering, etc.) in a package with a TV-tuner and remote (and possibly a videocard with TV-out) which can be plugged into any PC, and you might finally have something easy enough for more people to use. Though I think Freevo and MythTV could use a lot of design and polishing.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
The reason apple doesnt update its media center apps or computers is because WWDC is for developers as it says in the title. They announce updates that are relevant to developers, OS, Pro computers, Servers, etc. Wait for MacWorld for consumer updates.
Computer = active entertainment.
...
TV = Passive.
Soon, Ballmer might introduce the Active TV platform, integrated with Craptive Directrory, and allow TV viewers to download Service Packs! Clippy will make an appearance as well: "It appears you'we watching porn.. Should I do an autobackup? Email it to your MSN a/c? Tell your Daddy? Invite your boyfriend?
The last thing MS would like to do is to annoy home users, who haven't heard of them.. yet, in a negative way. Who else will they target with Vista? Corporate don't install until Service Pack 2.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
My 2.8 GHz Windows MCE 2005 laptop runs utorrent or Azureus like a champ. Video looks fantastic on the widescreen and is easy to control with VLC. I've used the MCE functionality to record only a handful of shows directly from cable. It's easier to download than have to worry about being plugged into a cable connection. Plus there are no commercials.
it's a blue bright blue Saturday hey hey
"Windows"
The living room PC was an ideal in a very short period of time when PCs were powerful enough for mass-multimedia, but networking wasn't quite up to the task of delivering it remotely.
Thusly, a component formfactor PC for your entertainment rack, to rip movies onto, download music onto, etc. For one reason or another, protocols and speeds hadn't standardized to allow this to be done over a network. (Windows MCE 2004 era)
Very shortly thereafter, Windows MCE 2005 was released, and the need for a Living Room PC went away. Suddenly, there was a standardized protocol (Media Center Extender) to follow, that X-Box products as well as other standalones could implement to deliver media content remotely. You didn't need your PC to be under your television any more, you could have a smaller, quieter box down there, and whatever type of computer you wanted somewhere else.
Computers will move more and more into the television segment of things, but it won't be through direct attachment. It will be through a Linksys Set-Top Box or an X-Box 360 pulling content over a network and pushing it to the television. As the network gets more powerful, each device attached to it doesn't need to be quite as much. You only need 1 big MCE box to support a handful of Extenders, after all.
"While some pundits blame the state of the technology this article claims that the PC and the TV provide two very different roles that aren't going to converge anytime soon." ; and for those that do want media from their pc to their tv, they get an xbox and mod it for far cheaper and much more reliability.
Firstly, they're a solution looking for a problem. Dedicated hardware works much better in this instance, even if the hardware is effectively a PC in disguise.
Secondly, current implementations suck. Apart from the initial install and extremely basic functionality, getting MCE running properly with multiple file types and codecs is almost as hard as installing and grooming MythTV - even on blessed hardware!
And why feck around with either, when I can go and buy a twin-tuner SD digital PVR for under AU$800, a twin-tuner HD digital PVR for under AU$2000, or lease a twin-tuner Pay-TV digital PVR for AU$10/mo?
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
The software out there blows. Closed / open source, free, bundled or pay, none of it is very good. The tv based interfaces are clumsy at best and I have not set up a single media box where everything worked right of the box (and I've set up about 12 of them in the last few years). Always a fucking problem.
Heck, some apps STILL have issues with A/V sync and somew store the video in a retarded format like raw avi or some weird "nothing else can play this because we are twats" custom format. Don't even get me started on the joy that is setting up HD.
DVRs are much, much more attractive and people will cough up the extra few bucks to get one.
I use a hauppague card with their shitty software (and it is shitty, clumsy to use unless you have a keyboard and monitor, sucks cpu cycles when it captures to mpeg (the other formats except for raw avi never worked properly, hitting control alt delete will kill your recording, but it does record when I tell it, which is a lot more than I can say for the many other apps I've tried)
The "software" bundled with nero 7 was the last thing I tried, didn't even make it past channel detection before dying.
If you know of a good program, please post it. Showshifter was decent for a while and had promise until some company bought it and fucked it up.
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I completely agree, this is spot on. I think the real reason is cost. Most people do not have HDTV. Very few actually have a LCD or plasma. Most individuals are just beginning to move to flat CRT technology. There really is a fundamental disconnect between most of America (world) and the technologically informed.
If they don't have these technologies, do you think they will have a DVR. Yes, but only if it is provided by their cable company. Tivo is too expensive and Media Center is way out of range. People that do have them are unlikely to use them because of the possibility of lightning damage (its an expensive computer)
First of all WWDC stands for World Wide DEVELOPER Conference. People keep asking about iPods and updated Mac minis, but they're missing the point that this isn't the place to intro new consumer goods.
Secondly, everybody is being stalled by the media companies as they try to avoid the situation the music industry is in right now. Those deals are still being worked out as we speak. The technology is ready, it's just the legal stuff holding it back.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
I'm stretching a bit and assuming that many problems means many people using it, but its more than I thought there were.
I've tried making a 'media center' for the living room with stock PC and components, and here's where I had problems:
:(
Controls. I still had a mouse and keyboard attached to it, and while I could have gotten a wireless set, it still would have been clunky. Someone needs to make a remote with a trackpoint and a treo- or sidekick-sized keyboard, and the regular remote features. Everthing should be controllable through a remote, without a separate KB/mouse.
Interface. Sure, I had a bunch of videos on the compuer, but it was a PITA going through explorer to find and organize things. Something like iTunes for video would have helped. This was on Windows, and I have heard good things about MythTV, though. Oh, and the resolution difference between TV and PC monitors meant everything looked unreadable or ugly on the TV.
Recording Quality. The video recording from either my Hauppage card or my ATI card were really not that impressive. I could have cranked up the resolution to DVD levels, but the motion compression still kinda sucked.
Aeshetics. Okay, this is my fault, but I had a really big beige box that was really loud next to my TV. That's wat happens when you use an old P4 tower to be your 'Media PC'. If I were to do it today, I would use the lowest-power proc I could find and one of those mini ATX cases. Most of the PC market just isn't designed to be in your living room.
On a brighter note, this is what I wish I could afford: Sony Type X Living - 1.5TB HDD, wireless and wired file server, 2 video tuners, DVD-RW, TV web browsing, scheduling software, HDTV compatible... If only Sony would just dump their 'media' division and have the hardware guys take over again, we could see a really good competitor to Apple in digital integration
Realize, they're called MEDIA PC's, not TV PC's. Of course, for the average TV watcher, the cable company's set top box will work quite well, but, for those that understand the potential and have a use for it, the MPC is a big step above.
This is more of a niche than people thought it was going to be, it's not turned out so much to be for the average user. In regards to price, setup, maintenance, etc, it's just not worth it for most people.
I traded a nice but old motherboard and cpu for an xbox with a broken drive. $20 modchip, $12 wireless controller, one spare hard drive, and 5 minutes of soldering later I have a great media PC. It plays back every format i've thrown at it, be it music, movie, or photo. XBMC is positively marvellous software and it's integration into my home network allows me to keep content on my PC and stream it on to my TV. The only feature I want that it lacks is a PVR.
-= I can't think of anything witty, creative, or insightful for my sig, so deal with this. =-
I would hazard to guess that the Average Joe wants appliance like reliability in any PVR, and a general purpose just doesn't cut it. I have been playing with this for years. I bought the first Tivo years ago, and loved it, but it had its constraints. I have been very happy with the reliability of Beyond TV from Snapstream. I have 2 TB of drive space, and 2 Hauppauge Dual Tuners for a total of 4 tuners. Yes, it is overkill, and I will never watch all the TV I record, but I have quite the archive. Beyond TV Link is the client software which I installed on my other computers, and stream TV all over the house. The nice thing about the four tuners and Beyond TV client is the ability to independently control the server in any fashion that adds up to 4 tuners plus recorded shows. In theory four different computer can control the tuners each independently. It's very cool, and centralizes all the gear. This isn't cheap, but very cool.
*my* computer is in the living room ...
Yes, I'm left. You have a problem with that?
Yes, we are indeed building them ourselves. However, we are doing so primarily because we can't find what we want on sale anywhere for any price. The below is an adapted version of a recent Usenet post of mine describing what I have come to daily take for granted with my high-definition MythTV setup:
------------
. . . MythTV works, and works well, for those who are interested in a "HD TiVo" without any of TiVo's limitations. I must admit to chuckling whenever I see a question in alt.tv.tech.hdtv or elsewhere asking how to record from a HD video source with a computer in terms that make it clear the poster and the respondents view the task as something akin to cavemen discovering fire.
I work long, long hours and, when I get home, often don't have any more energy left to do more than want to just relax in front of the tube. When I do so, I want to have as much choice in what to watch as possible. Let me tell one and all of what I with 100% reliability do with my MythTV setup every day:
If any of this intrigues you, I recommend visiting:
[1] Home Theater Master MX-500 universal remote. I programmed it using a $30 infrared keyboard/mouse combo.
[2] MythTV does an *excellent* job of deinterlacing 1080i recordings into 1080p for those displays that can handle it. Any Nvidia video card from the FX5200 to the present will work.
[3] Westinghouse LVM-47W1. Under $2500 from Crutchfield for 1080p LCD goodness.
[4] MythTV tells me that I have "242 programs, using 1.7 TB (427 hrs 33 mins) out of 1.8 TB (54 GB fr
I thought Couch-Surfing was sleeping on random people's couches when you don't have a place to stay.
mund freud.
Thanks for asking.
And so on... there are many factors behind the manufacturers 'inability' to properly converge these devices... really and truly they are 'protecting you', maybe not the environment, but really they are 'protecting you' from the nasty effects convergence would have...
There once was a time when mankind invented things to improve 'quality of life' but you can't tax quality of life, so there was a paradigm shift... ask Nicola Tesla... or better yet, a living innovator like Doug Engelbart. I for one am using my 'intelligence augmentor' to actually augment my intelligence. Not unlike many of my fellow
if I claimed I was emperor just because some watery tart lobbed a scimitar at me they'd put me away!
I definitely want something along these lines. I have a small condo, without enough room for a nice computer setup and a separate entertainment setup. I am being won over by apple's new stuff, and while I haven't bought anything yet I think I'd really like something along the lines of their 30" cinema display (which just today got bumped from $2500 down to $2000) and a macbook pro to drive it.
I figure a display like that is great for both a computer and a tv, especially in a small place like mine. And doing double duty this way might even justify the price tag. So I come home with the laptop and connect it to the display to make a nice big home computer, life is good. Now I want to watch tv... what do I do? I can download shows on iTunes, yes. I can even connect a usb tv tuner. Apple even has a media center type application (front row) and a remote to drive it with, but it doesn't do tv channels and can't control the tuner.
We're almost there but apparently the big players are not interested enough to make it all mesh. Most people have a separate room for the tv, and aren't sufficiently interested in the possibilities of integrating it with the home pc.
Vidi, Vici, Veni
That's exactly what I do. I'd love to be able to bring some of my computer media over to the TV, but I don't want to keep a noisy PC running all the time, I don't want to string a keyboard and mouse over to my coffee table, and I don't want to string cables from my stereo to the couch and have to plug in the laptop to use it on the big screen.
Actually, it'd be great if I could just use my TV and stereo as alternate display and sound devices for the laptop... wirelessly. Plug a little box into my entertainment center, then just use some control panel on the laptop to turn the TV into a secondary desktop, and drag a media player over to it.
Even if I could just do that with audio, it'd be a step forward. (I think Bluetooth could handle the audio, but (1) Bluetooth's range is kinda small, and (2) WiFi interferes with it, and my wireless router is right next to the TV.)
Why isn't this possible yet? Or is it, and I've just overlooked it?
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
The "Media PC" may not have arrived, but set-top boxes that allow you to access digital content in your living room are slowly making progress. I bought and abandoned the ViewSonic WMA100 after one too many crashes of its internal operating system, wtf that is, and reading on their website faq that no, they weren't planning on any updates -- way to kiss off future business, ViewSonic -- and replaced it with the D-Link DSM-520. Its internal software is also not perfect, but D-Link has been releasing updates. The vendor supplied server software may or may not be the most useful to you. ;-)
Media PCs died before they didn't come bundled with MythTV
\
Not as a computer, but several major ISP provide ADSL routers that also work as a media center (you can record ADSL TV or transfer files from your PC). It comes free with the ADSL subscription and is much more convinient than an media PC.
And yes, mine runs linux.
I'm surprised to read that the market is struggling in the US, because it's clearly booming here. I know two guys at the office who have just bought media center boxes, and they're advertised all over the place. Maybe it's a cultural issue, not a technical one?
Imagine if you could just pop in a DVD, and have it automatically rip and encode so you can watch it on any TV in the house, or on your video iPod, your PSP, or your car. How about we forget about the content media altogether, and just download the movie from the internet. Well, media companies are not going to let us do this. Copyright not only prevents us from doing this, it's illegal to do so here in the U.S. (DMCA).
Have you tried Xbox Media Center? This is probably the coolest thing I have in my entertainment center. If you could add a tuner card and PVR functionality, it would be close to perfect. It's easy, any media format works, the interface is awesome, and it's not trying to control how or when I can view my videos (or pictures, or music). Oh, and it also plays games.
Have you tried WIndow MCE? Well, it leaves a lot to be desired. I can just picture myself on the phone with my mom; "You need to decrypt and rip the movie to your hard drive. Now you have to encode it to MPG4. How big do you want that file?" Yeah, that's not going to happen.
I have a PC in my living room, but it's more a 'toy' than anything useful.
First off, my setup is a little 'unique'. I live in the boonies of Wisconsin, and have had a C-Band satellite dish for years. I'm not interested in getting a little dish, as it just doesn't offer the same stuff I already have access to. Add in that I have 4DTV (basically an MPEG decoder for a C-Band dish), I get more channels free and clear than any little dish could ever offer me.
I don't watch much TV, and therefore don't subscribe to much. I keep around the discovery channels and such, as I do enjoy those. My subscription prices, per year, are around $100. Way way cheaper than any small dish or cable service could offer me.
So, I really doubt there's much way to make the pc in there to actually control or record the descrambler in any meaningful way. Basically, I use it to pause live tv, or record a show that I'm watching.
Outside that, I do rip DVDs and CDs to a 'media store' on my network, so all my PCs (including the one in the living room) can get to it. That's about the best use of that PC.
What I'd LIKE to see out of it would be more along the lines of TiVO with scheduled recording and such, as well as the 'predictive' saving of shows (I watched this, I might like this, drop it on the drive, and I know to get rid of it if I'm running low on space), but my other hardware kinda prevents that.
Also, another nice feature would be more along the lines of data services from the TV station itself. For example, a football game is on. I'd like to have the picture of the game come through free and clear, and have the ability to format and display the score and other data as I wish: either on a seperate PC monitor or some such, or at least de-cluter what the TV station sends me. Make that real time data sync with basic text commentary (like the World Cup website and such), and I'd be much more apt to want a PC on my TV. Even advertising could be 'extended', with the various advertisers pushing data to a 'sponser' file. Would be much more likely to visit their site myself should it be 'all easy to get to'.
All this is a pipe dream, of course. But maybe, someday... *sigh*
Why would Apple announce consumer products at the WWDC???
If people actually wanted Viiv-like products, there'd be a lot more do-it-yourself versions while we're waiting for Intel. If the problem were a lack of software, there'd be plenty of open-source projects by impatient hackersthat's how we got Napster and BitTorrent. But the geeks seem uninterested. Where are the obsessive bloggers? The forum feuds? The amateur meetups? Show me any truly hot technology, and I'll show you 100,000 guys who can't wait to tell you about it. Has anyone bored you to death talking about their Media Center PC lately?
This is a joke, right?
People are talking, but you can't do it with free software. Just telling people how will get you tossed in jail, thanks to the DMCA and greedy big media. Rather than buy a big screen TV, I'd love to have a projector and stereo hooked up to computer. I've already got my music collection digitized. The access and convenience of Amarok are awesome. It would be great to do the same thing with movies. The cost of a projector is about the same as a big TV, but it's much more portable and gives better quality. The problem is CSS. I can't watch or archive DVD movies with my software. It's against the law to distribute software that would let me in the US or even tell people what sites in countries with sane laws have it.
Did they name the article "Myth" for kicks or what? So many people talk about Mythtv, it's hard to believe a Slate Editor has not heard of it. It even made it into the EFF's "Corruptables" video.
You can do it with non free software, sort of. The author mentions the miserable death of ViiV. Paul Boutin did not receive his promissed test model and wonders why. He must have missed this Washington Post review where the damn thing did not work at all because of all the DRM nonsense. You might be able to watch current DVDs if you fall all the way back to Windoze 98SE and have a stash of the now illegal Xcopy and other software required. The network and file system restrictions of such a computer would make most people cry, but it's the easiest route for honest people. People unafraid of the law have been swapping movies almost forever, but the effort and risks are way to great for "normal" people who will just rent a video. Yes, you can even find software that works with your free software, it's just a huge pain all around and you will again be stuck with a static system because upgrades will break it. Contraband is not free, it's not convenient and it's hard to trust.
Big Media is the root cause. They do not want their media on computers they don't have complete control over. They want it to act like a cable box, to shove adds down your throat, tell you what you can watch and when and how much you will pay for it all. Given that most media buffs already have a cable box and all the gear, the computer version that does not work looks really lame and big media is happy. There will be no video Napster, they think.The customer is not happy, too bad.
This represents a tremendous opportunity for independent media and it's why Net Neutrality is such a big deal. Already, artists can get great viewings on youtube, google video and other sites. These are just the beginning because they rely on flash and other crappy software. The quality sucks and you can't save them without a lot of effort that's liable to lace your computer with malware. The potential of the media are better seen with stuff like Star Wreck, a free, full length movie. It's a big file and independent productions are going to stay that way due to patents on video streaming and more advanced compression routines. "So what", you might ask, "I've got broadband." That's where Net Neutrality comes in and independent media gets the shaft. Warner Brothers, which so badly mangled AOL and squandered their c
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I thought media "PC" is called XBOX + mod + XBMC.
Microsoft STILL cannot figure out why it's great. They crippled xbox 360 media streaming effectively making it a non-feature.
Same thing that happened to a lot of electronics. The parts got cheaper.
When electric moters were new, the idea was that you'd buy an electric motor and plug it intoi your labour saving devices. Mass production made electric motors cheap enough that this was no longer necessary.
The "Media PC" is similar. The killer app is recording TV shows. Downloading still isn't really mainstream. A PVR will do this for you, and a cheap mp3 player will play music. This leaves the general purpose PC free to do other stuff. A proper desktop PC or laptop can be used for the internet or for gaming. People seem not to like a device that does too much.
Why would you get an ATI card? ATI is not the leader in either TV Tuners or Video Cards.
For TV Tuners, you can get an equivalent Hauppauge PVR150MCE for $30, or go with the Fusion HDTV if you want digital. And as far as nVidia in the TV tuner market, they recently released the DualTV, with 2 tuners, which beats anything ATI has produced, and gives the Hauppauage PVR500 a run for its money.
For the video card, nVidia has all the hardware accelerated MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoding, starting with 6xxx (fanless, silent, low profile 6200 is $30).
Please post here as a reply to my post, a web site address where we can read a description of the Machine components and the Software applications you are using. You could even make a Linux destribution, I believe will be very popular.
I am ask to build exactly these machines all the time, but I did not manage to reach a right balance with Linux, so like a dumb ass I install Windows Media PC.
To moderators: So what if it is posted by an Anonymous Coward Parent is a +4 easy.
And to the original Article:
Hey what are you talking about? it is here for a long time. I have 3 kids each of them have a PC connected to a TV in his/her room, and So I have in the living room. I have it for 7 years allready. 70% of my friends have a PC in the Leaving room. Infact since last year, no one I know have a stand alown DVD, since they breaks so fast. They all have a PC, for: Music, DVD, Video-Recording, Skype, Photos screen saver, Kids games when lots of kids come and they get to use the living room.
So no I do not know what you are talking about
The biggest problem with Home Media computers I can see is DRM & copyright. Tivo, et al would probably be bigger now if it wasn't for fights with large media corporations about what can be downloaded and watched on what. iTunes would be more useful if the tunes could be shared with a small Living Room PC which ran a free operating system on cheap hardware.
If I could easily (like three buttons easy) download missed episodes of favourite shows I'd have more of a requirement for a Living Room P.C.
The reason this technology has not set off is because of legal restrictions placed on early adopters. I may be being overly paranoid here, but this is how big-media wants it. You watch what they tell you when they tell you. Anything that gets in the way of that will not be allowed to propagate into the mass market.
Training monkeys for world domination since 1439
When you turn on a TV, you expect it to work. Immediately. No loading screens, no choosing applications, and a relatively minimal amount of button pressing and stuff to figure out.
Computers tend not to deliver on these sorts of things, and will most likely only make the TV experience MORE complicated.
Take the "MOXI" DVR for example. I've had some experience with this atrocity. Some particular things about it that bother me, that really aren't an issue with simpler set-top boxes (or with a lack of a set-top box entirely), and that seem to be the way things are going what with the pretty interfaces...
- Very long channel-changing lag
- Necessity to hit TWO buttons (with a pause of up to 3 seconds between) to choose a program from the listings
- Pretty pictures of the channel names, but no actual station name text (making it anyone's guess which local channel is assigned to which)
- V-Chip lockouts that take non-rated documentaries, independents, and foreign films as collateral damage
- Sound effects (thankfully they can be disabled)
- The interface is so pretty, why put a program grid in? Instead, you can only see at a glance what is showing at this exact moment, needing to hover and wait for a load to see what's next on each channel.
- Cooling fan that runs 24/7
- 3-5 minute reboot time, should you need to reboot (what, reboot a system that's been on for months straight?)
- Lack of a "close on-screen displays" button or mechanism... gotta just wait for it to go away.
- Very deep menu-digging necessary for some features
My point is that as TV stuff makes its way toward greater computerization, it is very easy to lose the easy-access TV mindset and make a totally user-hostile experience in the name of gradients, pretty buttons, lots of options, and "oh cool!" features. I get upset with the channel-change delay of digital cable compared to analog cable... adding a computer to the mix will almost always compound the problem. It's irritating enough using different TVs with remote control buttons in slightly different locations.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
Just what I need: the audio to take up 1-3 GB for my 4-7 GB movies.
BTW, both faac and ffmpeg encode AAC on linux.
I regularly use my PC for recording (digital) TV and radio, but I find myself creating DVDs to watch the stuff "offline". It's mainly down to the (lack of) ease of use of the software and its ridiculous resource requirements (which effectively mean I can't do anything else with the PC while I'm recording or watching TV).
The idea that you should have your PC desktop on the TV is kind of daft, but using your PC with a media adaptor as an adjunct to a TV isn't a bad idea at all. It ought to be straightforward and cheap - a digital TV stream (SD) doesn't get much above 5Mbit/sec and an adaptor to display it back on a TV is pretty cheap (eg Hauppauge MediaMVP) so it should be a fairly easy task to get a modern PC to churn away in the background organising and retrieving media.
Not so on my 2.5GHz PC - I can't effectively use the PC for anything else whilst recording TV and due to some rather bizarre design choices it appears that I can't effectively use it when playing back TV using the Hauppauge software. And, of course, none of the software integrates together.
Unfortunately, other media-server products seem to be just as bad. MCE has the desktop-on-TV paradigm which kind of rules it out of being used as a proper PC (though I acknowledge that you can use it with a networked media device which may overcome this problem).
If I can't use my PC as a PC while it's doing its media thing, and need access to the PC screen to launch the various bits of random software, then integration has failed - I'd be better off with separate boxes.
The CPU requirements of a media box are decidely modest so it might make sense to turn the model around: have a cheap media server with a network interface a host PC can use to access its EPG, recordings, etc, but which can also function standalone. Some of the latest DVB hard-disk recorders come close to this (remote access to recordings but no remote control from the PC), so it wouldn't be a big step.
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Long story short, this is quite do-able by techies. But, like most things PC related, it is not yet simple enough to catch on with the mainstream, as the mainstream expects it to be as simple as setting up a DVD player. Because a PC, by it's very nature, is a general purpose device, instead of the specific function devices that are normally used in the living room, it may always be more complicated than many non-techies want to try.
--- It's not my fault this post looks redundant. I just type too slow.
I think the problem is that nobody knows. Then you see them advertising it with people that have keyboards on their laps while watching TV. Who wants that? It's madness.
dominionrd.blogspot.com - Restaurants on
Maybe I'm odd (well...) but I just don't get this belief that convergence is the way forward. If I want to play MP3s I use an MP3 player, if I want a movie, I use a DVD (or laserdisc) player. I don't want a phone that's a PDA, I don't want a PC in my living room no matter how pretty it looks, they're still not as easy to use as a DVD/HD recorder.
And before anyone says anything about having pockets full of seperate phones, PDAs, MP3 players etc. Sorry guys, I don't carry that stuff around with me. When I'm out for a walk, I'm out walking. I'm not taking calls. If I'm out socialising, I'm talking to the people I'm with and don't want calls every five mins. The whole idea of being contactable 24/7 is horrible to me.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
>this article claims that the PC and the TV provide two very different roles that aren't going to converge anytime soon.
That's a laugh. Plasma TV's are digital. TiVo runs Linux. And MythTV (linux package) looks to blow TiVo away.
What happened to the media PC? It's the hottest concept around right now. I plan on building them for clients this year.
-mshurpik (post limit)
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What I've found to be the best option, is to get rid of the idea of a dedicated Media PC and instead just use my normal PC and a great little and cheap device called a MediaMVP which is both slim and tidy and connects to the network (wireless or wired) and can play pretty much any media located on the computer, which can be in a completely different room, and be used for other things.
Furthermore, you get all the benefit of a media center PC without actually needing one thanks to the software GB-PVR, which is free and runs on windows which provides an interface for the MediaMVP, which is skinnable and you can use plugins to add even more extensibility, from a TV internet browser, VNC, video library and many others.
From this, I get all the benefits of a media center PC and it works really well. The PVR searches the TV guide automatically and records my favourite programs as they come on, organises them into folders based on program and renames them based on episode, then converts them to small but good quality XVID AVI files.
I now have a nice library of all my favourite episodes on the extra 200gb hard drive in my system, I can watch live television, pause, rewind, view the TV guide and enjoy the various plugins, and all without needing an actual media center PC. It's simply another thing tacked on to my main PC, like any other background service. Not only that, but it's also very easy to both setup and use.
Just my opinion, but a slimline MediaMVP thin client, GBPVR server, and an extra hard drive for media works a lot better and comes out a lot cheaper than a media PC, and takes up a lot space too, good for keeping the people that dislike computers or wires in the lounge happy too.
The problem is you people all have LIVING ROOMS to begin with. The only way I have of knowing what you all are watching and then talking about at work is if I download it somewhere. If you all were to stop watching TV, I'd be lost. And found. A wallet from a careless man, is what I would be as. Too bad!
---The Vicar---
No, the fundamental disconnect is between techno-fetishist nerds and those still anchored in reality.
The mistake that techno-fetishists make is assuming that "technologically informed" inherently equals being some techno-fetishist nerd. You know the kind. The kind that thinks that a computer automatically makes everything better, for no other reason than being a computer. And thus actually thinks that it's a good idea to have a web server on his fridge, so he can check the temperature in it from work. Or than it's a good, nay, a _great_ idea to slap a browser and an LCD display on a microwave oven so you can surf on it (supposedly for recipes) while you heat your TV dinner in it. (Don't laugh. Some company came up with just that product. Literally.)
But mostly just because. Because in their mind the computer is a purpose in and by itself, and everything else is just a means and an excuse to interact with the oh-so-cool computer.
It doesn't equal. There are plenty of us for whom the computer is just a tool, like any other tool. And just as you don't need a hammer to cook your dinner, you don't need a web browser for it either.
There are plenty of cheaper gadgets which do one job well, and which don't really need a pimped-up gaming rig to do.
E.g., a fridge is just a fridge. All it needs is a thermostat. I don't need to check its temperature over the internet every hour. I just need the confidence that it has a simple and robust thermostat that will work for years or decades without any need to babysit it. The simpler and lower tech, the better.
E.g., a microwave oven is just a microwave oven. I don't want to browse for recipes on it. Any recipes I might have in mind have been (A) researched _before_ even buying the ingredients, and it's by definition too late for that at the time of cooking them, and (B) cooked in the normal oven, if it's a recipe worth researching and not just a TV dinner. It doesn't need a web browser and LCD display driving the price up. All I want from it is the peace of mind that if I set it to 15 minutes, it will stop after roughly 15 minutes. It doesn't have to be synchronized to NTP and it doesn't need micro-second accuracy either. As long as it stops somewhere between 14 and 16 minutes, it's ok.
And so is it with "media" computers or "home theathre" computers too. It's not that people are somehow not "technologically informed", it's that it's such a techno-fetishist use of technology. To record a show, even an ancient VCR is enough. (Though you might go for a DVD recorder nowadays.) To watch a rented DVD with your family, you only need a DVD player. (If you got a DVD recorder at the previous step, it will have that included.) To have some music in your living room, you just need a CD player. (And again, the DVD player or recorder from the previous step, it might have that included.) You don't need an expensive renamed gaming rig to do those, and you don't need the whirring of its fans and hard drives while you watch a movie.
Even with TVs, it's not that anyone is "technologically uninformed" and doesn't know about HDTV. Trust me, everyone has at least heard that they exist. It's that normal people have other priorities to spend their money on. Sure, a big LCD HDTV screen is nice, _but_ you could use that money on something else instead. That's where those nice big TVs fail for the majority of the population. The improvement exists, but it just isn't worth the cost, or more precisely giving up something else you could use that money on. You can spend the evening in front of an old-fashioned 60 Hz interlaced idiot-box just as well, for a fraction of the cost, and from 10 ft distance it won't look that much worse.
They're currently just a conspicuous-consumption status-symbol thing. They're like gold watches or pimped-up sports cars at mid-life crisis: something you buy just to show everyo
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The Myth of the Living-Room PC??? eh? They're everywhere. At least in the UK you can't go in to a high street electronics store without noticing a huge section dedicated to them. They may not be particularly useful at the moment, but that's only because the TV and movie companies are fighting over who should be allowed to screw us the most with hideous DRM, but the day will come. At the bottom end of the scale, there's TiVo, sure it can't download content off the Internet, but it's a PC and it's in the living room. Hell, even my mother has one and she can't work the microwave!
I looked into MythTV before going with SageTV, but I couldn't find documentation on how to get EPG listings. Is there a way for North American users to get listings? Or is it just that XMLTV stuff that only appeared to have listings in other countries?
My impression is that TV is losing out to the computer itself, especially for the elite who'd otherwise be early adaptors. Want to follow the latest news on, say, Israel? Go online. Want to find documentation that contradicts the Big Media stories? Dig in online. Have documentation to undermine the Hizbollah stories? Post it, and the world may even react. The combination of Internet _and_ the traditional newspapers is making TV irrelevant for me. Sure, it makes sense to watch the news occasionally, but that's it. To watch a movie I pull out a DVD from the shelf. Real movies are usually much better than the never-ending TV series. We have more channels and more entertainment on TV than ever, but that only makes the good stuff harder to find. Or, quite likely, there is less good stuff than before, because many of the viewers are gone, and the in-depth documentaries are getting ratings so low it's not worth producing them. While a killer surround system makes sense for watching movies, I find no use for a media PC. Only if it'd also take care of the actual watching so I wouldn't have to waste time on that (thanks D.A. :)
I'm in a Unix state of mind.
That's not a problem with MCE. That's a problem with the movie industry.
my desktop PC is my media centre, i listen music on it, watch TV series, scrubs friends whatever, i dont need a TV, the roles have converged
This is my sig.
And if you take away TV input (DVB or whatever) and add in torrents, it can be even easier to set up. I built a perfectly fine "media" PC with a mini-ITX VIA EPIA 1Ghz board. No horsepower needed to decode MPEG4.
I already have a media PC.
:)
Like most things, it only works when you want something. A marketting company idea of what makes a media PC is never going to work, because they tend to string together a bunch of daft ideas all centered around controlling the viewer and making money while never giving the user what they want.
I have a PC set up in the living room. It's for my wife. She hates PCs. So I got her a 37inch LCD with 1366x768 resolution. Resolution doesn't mean much to her. I told her it means a nicer picture.
Then I built a PC into the stand it sits on. Installed XP and DVB Webscheduler. A TV Antenna, Wireless Keyboard and Mouse.
That's all you need. Seriously.
And I never ever turn it off (except for maintenance or rebooting). It's on 24x7 (Webscheduler is a robust platform. Even on XP. Never fails. Never crashes.).
My wife plays online games on it, because it's on her TV now. She records her TV shows through a web interface, and fast forwards ads using a mouse (She has a remote, but quickly worked out the mouse was fine). She watches normal TV on it. Just by switching to TV mode. Or if it's something she wants to watch and pause, she fires up the recorder and starts recording and watching in real time.
The kids stream recorded shows to their laptops, because it's *her* TV and Computer, and no one else is allowed to use it if she wants to watch something... (She's very possessive of it). They've worked out they can set the recorder and watch shows over the home network anyway.
She sends emails. She reads emails. She could watch a video while she does, but she never does, because no one wants to watch a video and send an email.
And she has a VHS recorder plugged into it. She watches old tapes. She has two DVD drives to watch videos on DVD. She doesn't need two, but if one breaks, she needs one for backup. Don't beleive me? You deal with a crazy woman who can't watch her favourite DVD one night!
And now she watches movies in higher resolution and hates cable TV because the quality is so poor compared to free-to-air and DVD. And she records all the shows she wants to, because there are no tapes to get old or switch over. She has an electronic program guide to help her select her shows. She even knows how to delete stuff she has watched.
And she has her own space to use a web-browser to see what the weather is going to be like, check on the latest movies or generally look things up on google. because it's all on her TV.
When she forgets to set the video, she calls me to do it over my phone (or from work).
Basically, she's the classic example of a completely wired up (and supported) non-geek. She doesn't care how or why it works, and her IT department (ie, ME!) is always close to find out why she can't get to some website or watch her latest show.
All in the living room.
The truth of the matter, was it was only a matter of time until two technologies became common.
1. A half-decent web-based video recorder. (DVB Webscheduler seems OK for this).
2. A TV Screen with a VGA/DVI interface and high resolution.
That's it. Convergence over. Simple and effective.
I'm not the only one where I work who has done this, as it is becomming a common enough item over here in Australia. A lot of engineers buy a large LCD and do this (and use the same apps). It seems all our wives are using them, which is an acid-test of sorts.
She also plays music on it. There's a radio tuner as well, but she doesn't use that because she doesn't listen to the radio in that room for some reason.
The media PC is therefore a pretty simple device, regardless of what MPC and MPCII were supposed to be. The day my wife started using it, I knew it was here. Regardless of what the marketting companies thought of it.
She has a normal TV also... She refuses to use it, unless there's no other option and seeing her sitting on a small cushion in front of the TV with the keyboard and mouse perched on the lip of the stand is now a common sight in the house.
Oh, and when she takes a shower or cooks dinner, a 37" screen makes a great Battlefield 2 console too !
The media PC? Mine arrived for Christmas, 2005.
GrpA.
Enjoy science fiction? "Turing Evolved" - AI, Mecha, Androids and rail-gun battles. What more could you want?
If there were fully set up Myth TV boxes on shelves, people would buy them. Windows-centric hardware and software raises the price, and adds little utility. GBPVR beats the crap inside standard MCE any day, and even it is annoying to use. OTOH, MythTV is annoying to set up and install (we need something like a OpenBSD Myth TV distro--plug in, it works, and is paranoid by default!); but is truly amazing when it works.
:).
Even without a dedicated PVR, TV time beats any Windows TV tuner app I've used, and media players are not in short supply on either platform. But 'not Windows and not OS X' is scary, you see. That Lenox thing is for servers only ('cause you know, it's so hard to use that my mom used a KDE desktop and apps for nearly a year before she found out it wasn't Windows; granted, it helps that Windows boxes run a good many FOSS apps, but still...)
Apple thinks you are making it all day and to not want mix work/home.
MS thinks you cannot be trusted with the above work at home.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
http://www.tivo.com/
Deleted
A few months ago I looked at the options to watch the movies at the TV without having to burn DVD and being easy to carry the movies anywhere so I bought an external disk with media player capabilities, just 180 euros for a small 2.5" disk that I can connect to any tv via SCART and in a few seconds watch any of the movies that I have uploaded with the USB2 connector. It can even suck the photos from the digital camera with a direct usb connector!
It's supposed to be firmware upgradeable, but so far they haven't released any version so I won't give them a free advertisment, but just look around and you can find some manufactures that sell such kind of external disks and you don't have to worry about anything.
Keep your PC for PC tasks and use the disk as an normal external disk as well as a new movie player.
Basicly, the kind of "media PC" that people here are talking about would basicly have the following:
1.High definition video capture
2.PVR functionality
3.High definition video playback
4.Abillity to take media from your network and put it on this device to play it back
and 5.Abillity to play as many video formats as possible
Media corps dont like any of these, they dont want people to be able to copy stuff from a network and play it in full HD on their big screen TVs.
Or to record TV and watch it later.
Or to buy (or hire) DVDs, rip them and watch the rip with upconverted video and all those "unskippable" trailers, logos and copyright warnings removed or disabled.
Why do you think Microsoft crippled the media functionlity of the XBOX 360? Precicly to prevent people putting video content (ripped from DVDs, downloaded from P2P etc) on their network somewhere and playing it on the 360.
Look at it this way. To properly enjoy a Living Room PC, one must do the following: *Rip DVDs to the unit for 'disc-less' personal watching *Have a music collection they want to hear over their Hi-Fi speakers *Enjoy downloadable content, delivered straight to the box *Have a wealth of useful add-ons that integrate with the services in the box to do cettian things. Now, lets look at what why certian industries (who shall remain nameless) want to make these boxes hard to use. *Ripping DVDs must use DRM, raising the processor overhead significantly. Meanwhile, since the DRM is super-secret closed source, integrating it into the programs is often like holding a car together with duct-tape. *Once again, DRM. Certian "Media Center" operating systems don't allow for iPod/iTunes integration within the Media Center program itself. What they do allow to be ripped within the program from Cds -- DRM'ed. *The state of Downloadable content (eg: Movie Rentals, et al.) is so utterly poor, hard to use, and DRm'ed that people choose pirated goods because it's easier. *Add ons would require a knowledge of the program, a knowledge that some people don't want known as it might affect their DRM, and might allow people to do things with the program that might make it easier to use and ... faster! (Oh no! *gasp*)
Lets face it. The current generation of "Mainstream" Media Center computers have nothing on Linux PVR boxes from a year or more ago.
Windows has detected an undetectable error.
Most people who have seen it have desired it, but have balked at the staggering cost of buying one (most prices I've seen start at something like $1200). Bring the price down to consumer level and make it easy to connect it to antenna/satellite/cable, and I'm sure it'll take off.
men decides what goes into the study and women decides what goes into the living room. A big noisy and ugly PC just simply would not do! The truth is there is a big leap from PC to appliances.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity....Calvin
1) Complexity.
2) Price.
That's simple, really. The price one is the most obvious, media PCs just aren't cheap enough for most people, even those with higher end setups. A good DVD player, like really good, is $200. An audio/videophile quality one is like $500. You think a media centre PC has a chance against that?
However even more than that is the complexity. Media gear is all real simple. My DVD player has a simple interface, so simple that it only has 3 buttons on the unit. There's more on the remote, of course, but the 3 are all you really need. Put in disc, press play, movie goes. Done. I suppose, with sufficient messing around, one could make a MCPC that simple, but I've not seen it and remember, the DVD player came that way out of the box.
Heck my roomate decided to try and mess around with a MCPC. My DVD player plays MPEG-4 videos (Yamaha S657 if you were wondering) but there are limits on it, most notably it doesn't do HD (there are ones that do) and he wanted to mess with that. So he thought to use a PC to replace it. Ya well that didn't last long. Waaaaay too complicated. The PC has gone away and the DVD player continues to be used.
They must bring down the price, but more importantly things must be simlified if MCPCs are ever going to see more than a token showing.
Replying to self: ahh, I just read your subject. That's what you said too! sorry. :(
I just came to the conclusion that maybe - just maybe - some of the "top secret" features of Leopard that have NOT been presented yet might have something to do with the "Media PC thingy".
No proofs or anything though - just a wild guess.
I'm just about to buy a new laptop. I need it to be light, small, pretty and performant. I'm buying a Mac Book.
:) ). I'd miss music playback on my iMac, but if they took the speakers out of my laptop I probably wouldn't notice.
Do I care that it can play DVDs out of the box. Yes. But do I care weather it comes with 5.1 Digital Surround? No, because its a laptop, and the best sound I'm, going to get out of it is from my ear buds, on a plane. However, I know from experiance that I rarely use my laptop to play DVDs because of battery life. If its plugged into a wall, I'm either at work (and shouldn't be watching a DVD), or I'm at home, where I have a much better system that doesn't tie up valuable memory and video resources: a TV.
Do I care about music? Increasingly less. If I'm listening to music I tend to be listening on my iPod, which is synced with my iMac (which has Harmon Kardon speakers
Do I care about games? No. I like to think, that if I suddenly had a change of heart and thought that £39 for last years games was worth it, I might be tempted at the odd Mac game. But my gaming needs are met significantly more completely by my DS (and probably a Wii in the comming months).
What I do care is that I can plug it into a second monitor/projector and it allows me to have a database, tomcat/webbrick/jboss, eclipse, textmate, firefox/safari/opera and mail open at once without any noticable slow down. I want wireless internet, killer battery life the ability to sync across my iMac/phone/iPod/mac book with almost no interaction from myself.
Good iChat performance is a bonus, but really, I want that in my iPod/iPhone as soon as humanly possible - 3g video mobiles are rubbish, and Apple could be onto a real winner if they can combine the iSight, iPod and Airport... I'd buy one if the price was right.
And I don't think I'm on my own. Most people, when they buy a computer, want a computer, not a media centre. You just kind of expect it to do media stuff out of the box, but its not a reason to buy in itself. A decent office suite, or development environment or creativity suite might be - something that isn't outperformed by commodity white goods that cost half the price.
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
Bittorrent.
You could also buy/rent DVDs. Actual broadcast TV sucks, unless you want live news or sport or are desperate to watch any source of HDTV it's not worth it.
They couldn't find a remote that worked with MythTV!
:( )
Please don't mod me down. That's why *I* don't have one (have the box all ready and waiting too.
My dad was on about having one of those "media centers" in our living room :P Hope he doesn't read this article.
PC's aren't going to scale down and take over the living room. DVR's are going to (and are) scale up in capabilities instead. My TiVo now lets me listen to Internet radio, check the weather, and lots of other things that used to be the venue of a PC. Oh it also lets me play my entire MP3 collection with my remote control, not to mention view every digital photo we've saved over the years.
The 'Media PC' was mostly hype, but the kinds of things touted for them are already creeping into living rooms all over.
No, I think there could well be the demand, and the technology is finally (almost) capable of being slick enough to be interesting. The problem is the lawyers. For a media center to be "interesting", it needs to be able to do a lot of things that Hollywood and/or TV broadcasters are not necessarily happy with. You need to be able to rip DVD discs to the hard drive. You need to be able to store network TV to the hard drive, and play it back commercial-free. You need to be able to stream video you've saved to other computers in the house over the network. Preferably, this all needs to happen in a DRM-free way. You need a slick interface, combined with hardware that doesn't crash and boots up within a few seconds. And you need to do all this with HDTV as well as NTSC. (HDTV may almost have enough resolution to make web browsing practical, unlike the WebTV monstrosity.) With the exception of a video input card (easy to add into a design), a modern playstation or xbox would probably be good hardware for this sort of enhanced PVR - you'd just need customized software.
Some programs (MythTv and the like) are probably capable of all the media storage and playback, but don't come in a shiny box that just works. Commercial systems (tivo and the like) seem to just work, but keep getting their features reduced to keep the lawyers happy (all the worthwhile features are the ones they can't/won't add). And with the legal limbo of the broadcast flag, I'm not sure if you could even sell a DVR for HDTV.
I built an MCE pc, and while I admit that I did it mainly for an excuse to make a new computer, my non-techy girlfriend says it is 'the best thing we have ever owned'.
This from a lady who deliberately averts her eyes whenever a sci-fi show is on the tv. So the potential for mass appeal is there.
The display burnt out after 3 years and I had to replace it.
Other new developments: EyeTV2 added Front Row for the TV. It works well enough, but I quickly realized that all it was doing was slightly limiting my control options, but allowing me to avoid using the wireless mouse. I slightly prefer it, but it's hard to make a strong case for it as an essential improvement.
If people want a computer based media centre, we've already got them. A Mac and an EyeTV box is the heart of it. Chuck in some decent speakers. Add a 1TB drive. It's not expensive or complicated, but it works and it gives you complete control over all your media.
If people want a computer that will link to their relatively dumb home electronics devices, with all their copy protection features, insanely complicated remotes, analog inputs, plethora of makes and models, with a mix of analog and digital I/O ie. the whole 9 yards of horror - then they are crazy. No one is going to pander to that sort of madness.
What's Apple doing? I expect they are going to get a good library of movie and TV programs available online and release a media centre Mac to which they will deliver the content. Front Row will be improved somewhat. But still, it will be an entirely internet-computer based solution, with the option to connect it to a fat ass TV. And that will be that. The future will be much like the present, but with better marketing. People will love it. Apple stocks will shoot up like they'd just released a new kind of iPod. No one will notice that we've been doing this for years.
It's all being designed around the TV & Hifi rather than around the Computer.
I have a 12" Powerbook and an Airport Express. It's good enough.
I don't need another computer/hub I just want to be able to stream wirelessly from the computer to the TV. I do it with Audio now, just not so easily with video.
In your idea you also want to be able to stream back to the computer and capture (with real time mpeg4 encoding please!), but to me it seems like a beefed up Airport Express (extra ports and a chip for the video en/decoding).
OK, I'll probably cook my testacles (both the heat and the microwaves - brings a new meaning to TV dinners!), but it's easier to manage than some cumbersome new remote control.
29 mpg. YMMV.
It works as a second TV somewhere in the house.
My living room hasn't changed too much. A TV, VCR/DVD, speakers, CD player. All of which are not too extravagant but were pieced together over the last 10 years. The newest piece of equipment was the addition of an airport express to stream music from the computers. I am not going to replace the Living room with a computer for the many reasons already listed here. But I did gladly replace the TV in my bedroom with an elgato EyeTV EZ (~$150). You see, I already had a G5 in the bedroom and the TV in the bedroom was about as big as my cinema display. I was happy to reclaim the space that the TV took up. (also note that the EyeTV EZ also allows me to hook up my gamecube)
Now how has this changed my TV entertainment workflow? Well Instead of using a VCR to record TV I am now hooked on recording to the computer and burning a DVD (or just deleting it). I like how I can set it up to record from any browser anywhere (Work, friends house, etc). But when I want to sit in my living room and watch TV with the family I want to sit in front of my TV, not a Computer.
What I would really love to see is a solution to send the TV shows recorded on the computer directly to my TV like the Airport Express. The focus has been too much on having the computer be the output. Consumers want the output in their Living room on their TV. However for my bedroom, dorm room, kids rooms, the TV can be replaced.
I have one of these media pcs. It's self built of course. First I tried linux and mythtv, found it good for recording shows, apalling for mp3 libraries, or existing media libraries of any size. Reformatted. Tried windows MCE, found it unstable on my hardware. I installed windows XP, winamp, all the video and audio codecs I wanted, and have a front end from the group that made xbox media center. It works rather well for watching our vast library of fansubbed anime, tv, mp3, mp3+g karaoke, and I can fire up firefox and watch the latest viral youtube videos too.
Not to mention World of Warcraft looks pretty good on a 50" HDTV.
I've had a mythtv box set up for several years. While I don't have any problems running my own setup, I expect that my parents might. For them, I've built a setup similar in function but requiring multiple devices. They have a ReplayTV for the PVR capabilities and a Mediagate MG-35 for the video-on-demand functions. That setup works better for them even though there is an additional remote.
The biggest drawback is DRM.
If JS (Joe Sixpack) can't record what he wants, while he could do that with a normal VCR, he's not going to buy it.
JS also wants to share his recordings or the media he bought with his friends (again, this could be done with a VCR).
Offcourse, there are DRM-less solutions (like MythTV 'n stuff) but that's just too complex for JS.
I guess me and my neighbor are in a small minority, but we both have Windows Media Center PCs in the living room. Despite it being a Microsoft product, for the most part I'm really happy with it and it does about everything I'd want it to. The interface is no more complicated than a Tivo. But then... maybe Ma and Pa will need to wait for a voice interface with miraculously good NLP.
Ask me about my sig!
So far the best experience I've had with a Media PC setup has been using an Intel based Mac Mini, EyeTV 2 and a DVB-T receiver. It's not perfect (the Mac will occaisionally fail to wake up to record a program, for example), but it's fairly good.
However, at the end of the day, the only advantage it has over a standalone dedicated box is upgradability. Cost and ease of use are both major downsides.
because it sucks, bigtime. HP gave it a baaaaaaaaaaaaaad name. Who the f uses XP willingly? Win98se was its peak usability in terms of network discoverability, no mortal can figure out how to browse a network with XP.
OTOH, see www.equinux.com Media Center for Mac. $29 on a MacMini, it just works and it plays everything. Much better than Flip4Mac or any other open source abortion.
In fact, there's nothing to stop a person or organisation from setting up a private bit of the Internet, with all its own nameservers and all its own routers which will only route packets from certain places {like subscription-only servers} to certain other places {like paid-up subscribers}. Basically, I could set up "AJS media", offer ADSL to subscribers, and have some servers {including a whole new
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
From the intro: "this article claims that the PC and the TV provide two very different roles that aren't going to converge anytime soon."
From the article: "How come none of my Apple-loving geek buddies have Macs in their living rooms?
The article makes very easy predictions as if they are revelations. If the author had been paying attention to the computer industry he would not have harboured such wasted expectations for so long.
A year and a half ago Jobs was very clear about his intentions.
Jobs in 2004: "Well, we've always been very clear on that. We don't think that televisions and personal computers are going to merge. We think basically you watch television to turn your brain off, and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on.
Well, they want to link sometimes. Like, when you make a movie, you burn a DVD and you take it to your DVD player. Someday that could happen over AirPort, so you don't have to burn a DVD -- you can just watch it right off your computer on your television set. But most of these products that have said, "Let's combine the television and the computer!" have failed. All of them have failed.
The problem is, when you're using your computer you're a foot away from it, you know? When you're using your television you want to be ten feet away from it. So they're really different animals."
I used the same reference in a recent post predicting the unifying element between tv and computer will be a video Airport Express, not an Apple livingroom computer, in response to a previous slashdot article suggesting forthcoming iTunes movie rentals.
RTFM; please, I beg you.
Q: What Happened to Media PCs? A: Windows MCE
Slackware - because apt is for the lazy.
For all the system builders, I found the chart where I got information about hardware acceleration for nVidia cards: http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo_support.html
Everything from the 6200 TC 256MB on up has MPEG-2 and H.264/MPEG-4 decoding hardware acceleration. The 7xxx Series adds deinterlacing, scaling, and WMV9 acceleration.
media PC's are surely becoming more popular amongst your average computer user.. at the end of last year I bought a Geforce 6600GT with a simple TV-OUT with svideo.. EASILY hooked it up and got my downloaded tv episodes displaying on my TV.. windows was a piece of cake, and to get a TV to work in Linux, takes about 3 additional lines your Xorg.conf.. whenever friends come over, they realize how easy it is to setup, and they end up doing it too.. as downloaded media gets more and more popular, and offered by large networks for $$, then certainly the media PC will become more popular too.. we're still not at the point of buying tv shows ala-carte on the internet, nor movies, but its coming..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
People are talking, but you can't do it with free software. Just telling people how will get you tossed in jail, thanks to the DMCA and greedy big media.
That of course is why mirror operators, packagers and developers of Xine, Mplayer and libdvdcss are all in jail.
The problem is CSS. I can't watch or archive DVD movies with my software. It's against the law to distribute software that would let me in the US or even tell people what sites in countries with sane laws have it.
See above. There's no goddamn reason why you can't watch or archive DVDs on your PC. If it's for your own private purposes, I doubt the MPAA et al would give a fuck.
Did they name the article "Myth" for kicks or what? So many people talk about Mythtv, it's hard to believe a Slate Editor has not heard of it. It even made it into the EFF's "Corruptables" video.
Because EVERYONE'S seen that.
He must have missed this Washington Post review where the damn thing did not work at all because of all the DRM nonsense
The review doesn't mention DRM. How it does mention that the media centre software sucks, as does the selection. Nice try though.
Big Media is the root cause. They do not want their media on computers they don't have complete control over. They want it to act like a cable box, to shove adds down your throat, tell you what you can watch and when and how much you will pay for it all. Given that most media buffs already have a cable box and all the gear, the computer version that does not work looks really lame and big media is happy. There will be no video Napster, they think.The customer is not happy, too bad.
You see, I've never seen any evidence of "Big Media" wanting to do any of the above. And people aren't stupid, they would revolt if they did try it; big time. See twitter, this is why people think you're a fucknut; you're just making shit up to justify your religion^Wchoice of software, like the thing where you said Windows' EULA allows Microsoft to spy on you. What a crock.
Already, artists can get great viewings on youtube, google video and other sites.
I don't see any art on there. I see bored teenagers cracking unfunny jokes while drinking heavily, and other peoples' work. Might be art to some...but it's not going to replace Hollywood.
The potential of the media are better seen with stuff like Star Wreck, a free, full length movie. It's a big file and independent productions are going to stay that way due to patents on video streaming and more advanced compression routines.
Again, a lie. XVid anyone? Maybe it's a big file because FULL LENGTH MOVIES TEND TO BE MORE THAN A FEW MEG.
As usual, all the rotten players are forcing you to chose between freedom and popular culture. Not just enjoying it, but being able to participate, change and profit from it. Government likes this because they don't want a real free press. You are locked out by a bunch of greedy control freaks. Welcome to the continuation of the Media Empires founded on broadcast 100 years ago. If you give up your freedom, you don't really get back popular culture. What you get in return is the pale, government approved echo big media gives you now.
I really cannot work out what any of this means. It's like word salad.
One more thing. Computer makers don't like free media either. You can play Star Wreck on a 233 MHz PII with 200 MB of RAM. Without DRM eating up processor, normal media plays just fine. Who needs a noisy dual processor monster, when a used laptop will do the job? Save it for gaming.
Erm, considering that Apple's DRM can be decoded on a device the size of about half a deck of cards without any noticeable loss in battery life...what the fuck are you talking about when you say "DRM eats up processor time"?
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
At first glance, it would appear that MS is in love with DRM, as they design systems as if the entertainment industry is the customer. Only now is MS realizing that DRM as the entertainment industry wants it means producing a product that has no buyers
I wonder when Myth will support DLNA. It's a really cool way of streaming media off a server to be viewable by a television, basically. And all the big manufactureres are getting certified for it RIGHT NOW.
slashdot: where everyone yells sarcastic metaphors to themselves to understand the issue
The article completely misses the Wife Factor: "You want to put a computer in the living room? No. Absolutely not." I think this will be a significant barrier to widespread adoption of living room PCs even if they were useful.
"While some pundits blame the state of the technology this article claims that the PC and the TV provide two very different roles that aren't going to converge anytime soon."
Two things. One one needs to define "what is a Media PC". And two distingush the difference between TV-"the device", and TV-"the programming".
While MP3 players and especially the white buds of the iPod are very common more people I know when they have mobile music have it on their phone.
Yes they are seperate markets. They got a phone, that can also do music from time to time. They typically do not constantly walk with earphones on like me and other MP3 player owners. In fact often they do not even have earphones instead using the speaker option to blast the music. Wich is a nice option by the way as it means instant radio during your break when there is no radio.
Mp3 phones and MP3 players just cater to different crowds. My phone is old and simple and in fact I only upgraded it because it was cheaper then buying a new battery for my even older phone. Needless to say it can't play music. On the other hand I got a video iPod player.
My friends got the latest phones that not only play music but also video. While the tech in our pockets do the same, for the same prize (except I got two devices and they just one) we are using them totally differently. My friends just are not the walkman type persons. I am. I need more then 512mb of music. They do not.
So the answer is, what happened to the MP3 phones. They are an amazing hit and all around us.
Why the same hasn't happened to the media pc, well who says the media PC is an MP3 phone. I think it is closer to a video ipod. Does a media pc compete against the PC or against the tv? Is it too complex or too simple?
But more importantly, just what is it? (Oh I know but most don't) What does it DO for me that a device I already own does not.
This I think is the real killer. If you own a PC, you already got a PC and don't need another one. If you don't have a PC by now, well you probably don't want one.
MP3 phones are not a MP3player replacement. The MP3 part is a nice bonus. An extra. I don't know anyone who owned a real MP3 player that thinks a MP3 capable phone would make a decent replacement. In fact almost everyone I know that uses a MP3 player wants more storage, not less.
Price wise I agree. The media PC just doesn't fit. Too expensive yet not enough quality. It just doesn't have its place. Not because it is bad by itself but because other devices already fill the market, devices wich are better understood.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Gates believes there should be a computer (read "Windows") in EVERYTHING--refrigerators, pictures on the walls, TVs, you-name-it--the uber-geek approach. While I'm sure Jobs would also like to sell as many computers as possible, it's apparent that, as a marketeer, he's more aware of what the broad market will accept. Jobs approach seems a lot more realistic to me.
I built a media PC that IMHO does the job:
The industry needs to change in two fundamental ways:
1) Accessibility - software needs to work in a greater variety of environments. That means high-DPI and low-DPI displays, and low-resolution displays, multiple aspect-ratios.
2) TVs and Video Cards: non-interlaced, DVI/HDMI, no overscanning, >60hz, standard aspect-ratios.
P.S. Also, I have yet to see a media PC with surround sound. That's because sound cards use 3 stereo cables, while receivers use Dolby encoding over one pair of cables. This is just one of those cases where computers do it differently than all other consumer devices (although they do it better).
Cable cards might be the solution, but right now I have this nice almost free DVR that records HD and tunes all my channels already plugged into my TV. Any type of tuner card right now will have to pass through to that device as it cannot directly tune all my encrypted channels nor HD over the cable. Thus making another point that could break and making it almost useless. Make a PCI express card that does all of the functions of my DVR (tuning all my digital cable channels, video on demand from my cable provider, HD tuning off my digital cable) and I'm interested. Otherwise its not worth it to me.
For the record I have a media center box and an extender.
-Xen
I don't know about anyone else, but my iMac 20" with EyeTV has completely changed how I watch TV. Advantages: 1. Tivo-like recording functionality. When I get home there is always some TV goodness from the last 24hours just waiting for me, rather than having to deal with what's on at tye moment. 2. Space - I just have my iMac in the living room, no TV. The space savings are awesome. Think - no stereo, (speakers though), no dvd player, no cd player, tv, just one sleak Mac with decent speakers 3. For the shows that I really want to watch, and don't want to run the risk of missing episodes etc, there's always iTunes Music Store video. I get a fix of Battlestar Gallactica each Saturday and Sunday, except when I'm away from home. No ifs or buts, the servers are always there, and I can always access the program. Sweet! Disadvantages: 1. The image can sometimes pause - although I expect this to become less and less of an issue as computers become more and more powerful 2. the fan can be a bit noisy, but only on hot days (30C+), otherwise I never hear it. In other words, this is the best TV setup that I have ever had. It actually makes me want to watch TV.
At a keynote several years back, he pooh-poohed "convergence" (TV/Computer) and said "TV is where people want to turn their brains off, and the Internet is where people want to turn their brains on."
I was shocked when the video Ipod followed, and software DVD players, Tivo, FrontRow, MythTV, etc. No I wasn't.
But there still are important differences between PC's and TV. (PC's are usually a solitary experience, TV is often a communal experience) - but I think it's been amply demonstrated that PC's can do everything a TV can do - except constant mass-download of content from a hundred channels simultaneously.
But the main thing killing PC/TV convergence is the MPAA. Same dynamic that's killing gaming-PC's. Content producers are terrified that on a full-function PC, content will be copied and distributed, and they won't get their cut. So they want to provide their content to crippled systems only. So consumers will always have to buy one crippled device for each media type (family-room audio system, TV, game box (ps2/xbox/nintendo)) and a computer if they want one.
This dynamic will ensure that computers, for most homes, will remain secondary luxury items, financed after the crippled "entertainment" systems are already purchased.
The only place where this convergence makes sense is for network providers. To them, the cable monopolies, the telecom monopolies, it's all data. They'll happily provide broadband service alongside their existing networks (cable/telephone) - and shut down ISP players, until their inherent market (monopoly) powers allow them to basically shut down or marginalize the internet connection (ie. provide crappy service that a truly competitive market would otherwise improve upon).
You plug your computer into the same connection you plug your tv into.
But the content providers, and network providers don't want you to use your computer like a TV. Because they're afraid you'll realize it's just data too.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
My friends bought a Media PC (Windows Media Center) for their new 46" TFT TV... what they got was a 27m3 GameCube for their kids... That's what happened to the Media PC.
No sane adult couple with kids (kids age between 6 and 18 years) will buy a PC for their new widescrenn 40"+ HD TV... if they want to keep the TV for what they bought it for.
--
Using MS Windows is like having a little baby: you must take care of it all the time, protect it against itself and against the whole world... but, unlike the baby, it will be old and tired in max. 3 years.
If only it were that simple. I'd be happy to find a reasonably priced thermostatically controlled fridge*. I'm sick of this "A - E, E is coldest, don't mess with the freezer setting because it will affect the fridge too". I want to set the control on my fridge to an actual TEMPERATURE, not a letter. My ice cream never stays the same consistency, and it sucks for overnight cold fermentation of bread dough.
* Yes, I know that technically the fridges with "letter" controls are thermostatically controlled as well. You know what I meant - stop being pedantic.
Gimme a 40 inch HDTV with DVI input and I'll have a perfect PC-TV.
So what's the problem? Just put a few buttons on your remote: PC Desktop (ie.KDE or GNOME), TV (tvtime?), saved movies (mplayer with easy movie selection gui?), mp3 player, plus an EPG with recording functionality.
So what? It is already there. Has been there quite a while. The PC can do it all. Why do we always have to have that non-sense talk here?
While we're on the subject, I'd love to hear some stories about remote controls for PCs - drivers, Linux support, features, etc. I have a media box hooked up to my 47" tv but the mouse / keyboard setup makes it a pain in the neck (or wrist?).
In a story about this, there will inevitably be the horde of comments about people setting up their own HTPCs using MythTV. I gave MythTV a shot, and was for the most part unimpressed with its appearance; despite being powerful, the fonts remained ugly, misaligned, and improperly cropped no matter what I did. In addition, installation and configuration (while having improved significantly over time) is still a pain, unless you use a pre-rolled distro like KnoppMyth, in which case you sacrifice customizability for ease of installation.
.NET framework. But it is also fully open-source, has an active development team, and -- most importantly -- is easy to install and use and looks really nice on my television. I haven't used its PVR capabilities much, but it works like a dream for playing our MP3s and digital video, and acts as a very capable emulator frontend as well.
For those of you who want an alternative, I'd like to recommend MediaPortal, which is partially based off the old XBox Media Center code. I'll readily admit that it is not as efficient as MythTV -- it doesn't have the frontend/backend model that Myth does (although that is being developed), and it requires WinXP with the
She's really got you under her thumb, eh?
In fact, she probably spends all day fucking the pool guy and calls you every now and then with some bogus tech support issue so that you think she's watching TV.
If I were you I'd be getting a paternity test for your kids - there'd be nothing worse than raising someone else's brats then realising at 50 that you haven't passed on your genes.
Seriously man, have a think about it.
I think you hit the nail on the head. People buy this stuff to impress others. Consiously or sub-Consiously. Why do you think people buy the large Hi-Def Flat Screen TVs, Fancy Cars, Stylish Laptops... It is to impress other people. Most companies know this. You will not get more or less entertained with a hi-def TV vs. a Normal one, with the content being the same. Having a high performance sports car will not get you to work any faster (legally?, But still you can speed in your old car too), A fancy Mac Book Pro will do the work just as well as a Dell Laptop with the same specs (OS Bigitry asside). It is all about getting praises for your hard work and make you feel sucessful to other people.
It is not a bad thing but people need to understand this fact when they get this stuff and they prioritize their needs. Marketing targets people need to feel accecpted and popular.
Teenagers wanting cool Cell Phones, So they can show off how hip and trendy they are.
Kids toys, if you ever noticed all the toy comericals you see the kids playing with the toys with other kids, or using them to get the attention of someone else.
Car commericals, people are always driving with a passanager or with a group of other people in simular cars, someone standing in awa, on in a mock race where the other cars are defeted.
Food comericals where the family is sitting at a table completly enjoying your meal.
It all about impressing others and not about yourself. The Media PCs are not impressive, people don't go "Wow You have a Media PC!", It doesn't look as impressive of having a Hi-Def TV with 5 or 6 boxes next to it that all do different things (Cable Box, TiVo, VCR, DVD, Surround Sound, X-Box, PS2/3, TiVo, etc...) Just having one box that can be confused with a fancy Cable Box is just not impressive, and people wont notice it and not start a conservation about it. And thus you fail, and get no product satification.
With my PowerBook when it was new I always got complents on it and it made me feel good and successful, knowing that Apple products make people notice me and complement me (indirectly) makes me want to get a new one. It is that simple.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
The demand is there!
When it comes to music and movies there are now so many restrictions being demanded by entertainment corporations to prevent anyone from copying or storing any type of music or movie that I think companies such as Apple are giving up.
Now everyone is saying "there's no demand".
Cue evil laugh from corporate CEOs.
Media PCs are meeting the same fate as DAT.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
I would buy a media center PC this weekeend if it would. A. Record all of the programs I want to watch even if the network changes the scehdule. B. Make them easy to access with a well designed remote. C. Allow me to jump over commercials. D. Download a TV scedule without me having to do anything after set-up. Oh wait my TiVos do that and for a whole lot less than $2000.
Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
Right on. I never understood need to replace a simple elegant solution (~50 mhz tivo, working great) with a bloated unusable crashing monstrocity costing 10x as much (2.5Ghz+ MCE that works not so great) The main thing Tivo was missing was ability to play video off the network, but even that is possible now(yay tivoserver). If you want something more flexible and less usable, XBMC on xbox is still a lot lighter than a full blown HTPC.
-Em
RelevantElephants: A Somatic WebComic...
I also have a mini with the EyeTV DV receiver. That works pretty well, although I have very few digital signals in my area at the moment.
What would make it compelling would be higher resolution videos in ITMS - I do buy and watch some, but for shows like Battlestar Galactica the resolution is just a little bit too low to have space scenes look very good.
I've also tried a number of third party media managers but so far nothing has really clicked quite as well as Front Row for ease of use (though more and more programs are starting to integrate with the Front Row remote).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I considered it for the longest time, but eventually disposed of the idea for a number of reasons:
- a TV is instant-on. In 15 seconds, I'm already browsing for shows. PC? Turn it on, then go get coffee while everything initializes.
- I have a TV, a VCR, and a DVD. Media PC couldn't play the VCR tapes anyway, and frankly browsing through my shelves of DVDs is no slower than digging through menu trees to find the files if I ripped them to a drive.
- A TV with VCR and DVD is a No brainer. Kids can run them without any reasonable likelihood of destruction. No driver issues, compatibility issues, no mysteriousness: Turn it on, insert media, watch.
- TV resolution is retarded for using any computer function. Even Hi-def TVs are nice, but they're not 1920x1280 like the top end computer monitor.
- the 'setup' of a typically-comfortable tv-viewing home theater is rarely conducive (IMO) to getting productive work done in most contexts.
Similar equipment, superficially similar functions, but in actuality polar opposites.
-Styopa
Look, I'm not saying that it adds absolutely nothing whatsoever. I'm saying that it doesn't add enough to warrant the GGP post's dividing people into (A) those who have all the latest digital gizmos, and (B) the technologically uninformed/illiterate/elitist-euphemism-of-the-mon th. There _are_ plenty of reasons to decide you don't want one, or rather that you could get more use out of using the same money something else.
I know people who've preferred to buy a house, or a car, or god knows what else. Or maybe just save some money for when/if the shit hits the fan and they need to spend a few months looking for a new job. (It helps a lot if you know you can survive for extended periods that way, so you don't get desperate enough to _need_ to take the first crap job that's available.) Not because they're technology-challenged or luddites, but because they needed/wanted/fancied the other thing more.
That's all I'm saying. You _can_ be informed and still feel no need to have the absolutely latest fad or gizmo.
And I'm saying that at the point where one sees such gizmos as absolutely essential -- to the point of calling people "technologically uninformed/illiterate/etc" if they don't run buy the latest fad or gizmo _now_ -- then that's already a fetish, rather than anything resembling rational adult behaviour.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
At which point you've invested what for most people is a metric buttload of money into two computers, to do very little more than what a DVD player already does. (Most of the population isn't exactly on a six digit salary.)
Especially to get a truly silent computer you end up needing a special ribbed case that acts like a heatsink. E.g., the Zalman TNN ones. Because, again, I don't want whirring fans when I'm watching a movie. Except the TNN costs about 500 Euro and looks like crap in the living room, because it's one big weird tower.
Or, if you're truly nerdy, you can spend a month or two researching ways to silence and soundproof a PC made out of run-of-the-mill off-the-shelf components. It costs money, and it costs time. And you'll be spending a lot of that time sorting the good information on the net from astroturfing, and from posts by people who must be deaf to think that a big 3000-4000 RPM fan is anywhere _near_ silent. It's something that only a true nerd can consider anywhere near entertaining. And sad to say, the end result at least in my case _still_ isn't anywhere near as silent as a dedicated DVD player. Buggerit...
Or you end up ordering something like a Hush PC. Silent, sexy and all, except anything even moderately powerful starts at around 1600 Euro and goes all the way to 3000 Euro. Teh oops. Even their Via C3 ones start at about 600 Euro.
Which all brings us to the real issue:
Ah-ha. Yep, that's the real problem: the cost. (You'll see I mentioned the same for HDTV in my previous post.)
Noone says that there wouldn't be some advantages from going HDTV or PVR, and noone would refuse one if it was for free. (Heck, I probably wouldn't refuse even the fridge with a web server, if it was for free.) The question in the real world is: is that improvement worth the money and time investment? Is it the best thing I can get for that money? Or is it paying a lot of money for a tiny little improvement in convenience? You don't have to be uninformed to choose something else for that money.
That's basically the difference I had in mind between techno-fetishists and the reality-based people. The techno-fetishist seems to start from the axiom that you absolutely need the latest computer-based gizmo or gimmick if you know about it. That there's no way you could end up not buying it, unless you're technologically uninformed/illiterate/whatever.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
no way, any good MediaCenterPC will have a builtin WAP and be running something like LTSP serving up KnopMyth frontends and Knoppix boot images. Sure you can have your laptop but why not pick up a $150 thin client and $150 17" flatpanel to put on the coffee table. Don't feel like firing up the 60" HDTV and sound system? Fire up a KnopMyth frontend on the coffee table and watch transcoded versions of your HDTV shows, videos, etc. Want email, browsing, etc, fire up Knoppix mounting persistent /home folders from the LinMCE server.
I mean if you are going to put that kind of money into a home theater system, have a mediaCenter PC built that'll give you more than DVR capabilities. Most of the tech is already there, though it resides outside of the Microsoft world.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
There's no demand for these because 99 out of 100 people don't even know the concept exists, let alone understand its potential to make their lives better. Even the few that have heard of or own Tivo's think of it as some magical box, and not just a PC with specialized software and inputs. I'll even admit that before I stumbled onto MythTV, judging from their advertising, it looked to me like these media center PCs had nothing more than special versions of Windows that had mp3s and attaching camcorders in mind. The true benefits of such a machine were never clearly explained in all the hype, and so the general attitude still remains "I'm not sitting at the computer desk to watch tv" or "I don't want a computer in my living room"
Check out the cave on the east side of lake Hylia. Strange and wonderful things live in it.
I have two "media pc's" in my living room - they're both Shuttle SFF pc's running Windows and Linux. No TV. No VCR. DVD's play just fine on either PC, with better picture quality than the TV I gave away two years ago. I don't use a remote, but I don't have a stack of tv/vcr/dvd/stereo remotes to contend with, so it's not a big loss. I'm not running MythTV or a Windows Media Center OS, but I play DVD's and video from iTunes and other sources on the computers. These devices have replaced a TV and VCR in my home. If I wanted TV reception, I could add TV tuner cards and get an antenna or a cable TV subscription, but I'm not really interested in TV shows
Lots of people use Mac Mini's for this purpose - they're just not called "Media PC's" - but they're small and quiet. The new iMacs come with a remote control and a quality LCD - I'd happily watch movies on those boxes.
The problem with the media PC, the convergence device, and so on, is that it isn't one pretty, easy-to-track product like an iPod or a Walkman. It's MythTV or TiVo (a little stretch, but not a big one) or a generic Linux/Windows/Mac computer which is, very slowly, replacing TV as media-consumption device. The fact that the PC architecture is rapidly evolving and quite flexible makes it attractive to people with only "hobbyist" level technical skills and circumvents the marketing efforts of PC and consumer-electronics manufacturers. The companies selling Home Entertainment PC's haven't found the right mix for a huge number of people to embrace, so people roll their own. Sure, most people over 40 would rather have super-simple consumer-electronics devices which "just work" - good for them! People in my age group, 30-40, may be a little more experimental, and I think people under 30 who are comfortable with computers and the Internet have even less use for TV.
So I think the Media PC is here, and getting bigger, but it will be hard to chronicle accurately for a few more years while the hardware/software/consumer-electronics vendors figure out what people really want and how to sell it to them.
ATI has superior TV-out than all other cards. I've seen other people's TV out, and it looks like crap. I am on my 6th or so ATI card, and have been doing TV-out for 11 years now. Nothing else matches the quality. Yea, I have hauppage in there too. And an FM transmitter. No PCI slot unused :)
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
Many obscure things are only released in certain formats that you don't get to choose. At least I can still play them. People with standalone-dvd-players, for example, could not play a RM file (shudder) (I use RealAlternative, of course.)
-Clio
Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
I had a perfectly working HTPC. Hauppage TV Tuner, and Beyond TV worked great. Then my cable company (BASTARDS!) decided to move my most watched tv channel (Sci-Fi) from analog to digital-only. Yeah, there were ways around it, like getting a cable box, and feeding the signal to the line in of the hauppage, running infrared cable channel changers (Which always seem to be unreliable), etc. Add to that the hauppage tuner is SD only, and I've gotten spoiled by HD content when possible it was evident that an upgrade was necessary. But the available options sucked. There are no HD TV tuners that can take a feed from my cable provider. There are some workarounds, but they all blow. Grabbing feeds from my cablebox via firewire was promising until again, my cable provider started to broadcast a good number of my favorate shows with the CP-flag bit set. Then I get nothing over firewire. Ugh. Which meant that ok, for some shows I can still use the hauppage for getting analog cable signals. For digital channels, I have to grab it via firewire from the cable box. Unless of course, the content is CP-flag bit set, then I need to grab it via the analog outputs from the cablebox. I finally gave up, and got the PVR from comcast. True, it *BLOWS* in comparision. Has 1/10th the storage my HTPC did, and my HTPC converted the MPEG-2 streams to MPEG-4 (DivX or WMV actually), losing almost no quality for a fraction of the space. It was easier to skip around in the show (And marked commercials). The EPG was infinately better. I could stream it to my other computer in the house. Before all this happened I was close to getting a solution to stream it to my Big Screen TV via the X-Box as well. That way my wife can watch her futurama on her computer, I can watch Sci-Fi on mine, and my son can watch Blues Clues (Or I could rip *my* DVD's and let him watch them while keeping the DVD's safe from... Peanut Butter, Frisbee Testing, etc that they seem to go through with my son in the house). It isn't that we can't technically do it. I blame the cable companies for dragging their feet with cable card implementations as the reason my HTPC went the way of the dinosaur. As for convergance failing, I blame: Big Screens with high resolutions (1080p+) costing too much. You can't effectively use a TV for a monitor until it has decent resolution, interleaving doesn't count, and 780p has as much resolution as the monitor I threw away 12+ years ago. But for me, convergance is still present. I don't watch the Big Screen TV EVER. I run my PVR directly to my 24" Dell Widescreen LCD, and watch TV on it. If I knew it'd work as well as it does, I would have opted for the 30". But that was beyond my pain threshold to see if I'd like it enough as both my TV and monitor at the time. But I'll definately get something similiar or bigger if available next purchase (Or as soon as I can figure out a way to put my current monitor to some other use).
http://thomashawk.com/2006/08/how-vista-will-final ly-make-living.html
Looking back at VCRs, it took about 20 years for them to become popular. In the 70s, before VHS & Beta, they weren't practicle. In the 80s, they cost the equivilent of $1000 in today's dollars, and weren't in everybody's home. I'd expect HTPCs to follow the same route.
No, I will not work for your startup
I should also mention that, for me, at least, the backend wasn't really included in my calculations, since I had it anyway. I did have to add more disk space, but I have lots of uses for a home file server.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
The complexity only happens because I've added a second display device and audio system, and those are just me doing things because I could; neither is inherent in the concept of a HTPC. (In fact, they wouldn't happen except that I want to use the same computer for home theater and as a regular PC.) The compexity of a HTPC is no greater than a regular computer, and probably less complex than the usual mess of video/audio/RF stuff that anyone with a cable box, VCR, DVD player, and TV right now. The complexity is not the issue stopping people.
I think the reason media centers aren't more successful is because the average person doesn't care about doing the things they provide, and thus isn't going to spend the money. I don't think anyone (myself included) wants to do computer-ish functions like web browsing or email on their televisions. (The "WebTV" era, where you could sell that to people in lieu of a computer, ended now that practically everone has a computer already.)
There aren't any 'killer apps' yet that really motivate people to go out and spend the money that HTPCs cost. Why would you want to have a $500-1k HTPC to do DVR functions, when for a few bucks a month, the one from your cable company will do the same thing?
Most 'media centers' are a solution looking for a problem that the average person doesn't have.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
What you're asking for sounds a lot like what Microsoft is shipping today. I know because I use a media PC just about every day.
I've seen these around. I have a Sony Vaio desktop that looks pretty much like a regular tower case, but I live in an apartment and I was in the market for a new PC, not an A/V component. The media PC aspects were a secondary concern. My PC is wayyyy quieter than the Power Mac G4 that it replaced; admittedly, however, it could be quieter still. I have seen cases that look like A/V equipment that I am told are virtually silent, however. And I'd imagine even my PC would be inaudible to "the older generation." My refrigerator is 20 times more distracting to me.
Check. I almost never watch anything when it's first broadcast.
Microsoft has never really been the master of the easy-to-use UI, but it's simple enough. Fonts are big, options are streamlined.
I doubt my Vaio can make this claim, but it does do the next best thing: If you put it into Suspend mode, it will actually wake itself up when it's time to record a show and then put itself back into Suspend again.
Mine doesn't (my hardware doesn't support it), but Media Center is capable of it. For some reason, though, there are no time-shifting capabilities for radio, a real bummer.
I think there may be a third-party add-on for Media Center that essentially embeds Internet Explorer. Don't quote me on that, though.
So there you have it; what's the problem? People loooovvve to knock Microsoft, but here's one situation where Microsoft has been spending a ton of money to give you what you're looking for. It may not be exactly perfect yet, but so far there have been no announcements as to what improvements will be done on the Media Center side when Vista ships. Why don't we wait and see?
Breakfast served all day!
One of the biggest barriers to this market is the fact that DRM technology has hindered the ability to have a flexible media PC. If you rip your own DVDs, download non-DRM MP3s, and have non-protected cable tv with a capture card, the media PC works like a dream. However, the non-DRM media world is something of an elusive dream now, and most consumers don't even have open media anymore. They have ITunes or WMA MP3 files, and no legal DVD ripping program exists, and digital cable and satellite cannot directly be controlled via a video capture card.
This is a prime example of how DRM is hurting the technology markets. If there were completely open and non-DRMed media available as a standard media center PCs would have become the norm. There are lots of nice open-source media pc front-ends, TV-guides, and software media players that will integrate all movies, music, pictures, and internet in one convenient place. But due to DRM, these players generally do not play DRMed media.
Taking the article at face value, I think that "serious games" probably qualify as what he's looking for. Games not for the sake of the game, but for their education value.
l ds_video.html
a cy_game.html
_ the_hard.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_game
http://futuremakingames.blogspot.com/
I have blogged about several of the serious games that I have played:
McDonalds Game
http://digitalcrusader.ca/archives/2006/07/mcdona
Democracy Game
http://digitalcrusader.ca/archives/2006/01/democr
3rd world farming game
http://digitalcrusader.ca/archives/2006/05/endure
Eric
Then I haven't explained it well enough.
:P
1. The techno-fetishism part. Look at the post I was answering to. It was literally dividing the world into (A) the ones with the HDTV, PVR, etc, as the "technologically informed" and (B) the rest of the world. I mean, literally, based on ownership, either you have all the gizmos, or you're too uninformed to know that they exist.
Which, sorry, strikes me as fetishism. If anyone can see a PVR as _that_ necessary, to the point where the only way to not have one is to be "technologically uninformed"... I don't know, that's already even past the usual snotty elitism level. That's already in the bizarre fetish territory. Any normal human would have a long list of other stuff they need more than a PVR or HDTV, and only get to the PVR or HDTV if they still have money left after all that stuff.
I'm not saying that HDTV isn't better, I'm basically saying that for the average person it's more in the optional luxuries range than in the necessities range. Sure, it's better, but there are a lot of things that most people would do with their money before they get to needing one, especially if they only watch TV for only a few hours a week. I dunno, getting a better house, a car, whatever, or just saving a little money for the next time they have to look for a job. (It really helps if you can afford to look for a good job, as opposed to getting the first crap one out of sheer lack of options.) Placing a stupid PVR above and beyond all that, to the point where the only way for someone to _not_ have one is to be uninformed... well, that's what I was filing under bizarre fetish.
Whether you fit that definition or not, I couldn't tell, but it seems to me you're more logical than thinking you absolutely need a computer attached to the TV, just because it's a computer. The "knowing there are better channels of information than TV" part hints at some rational thought behind it. No idea, though.
2. About the conspicuous consumption. Well, 19" probably isn't conspicuous consumption, or not too bad as conspicuous consumption goes. They're getting pretty mainstream nowadays. Still, there _are_ people who use their gadgets as status symbols.
3. About the "sour grapes" part... Not sure in what way you mean it. If you mean as in the usual "I bet you wish you could afford one"... I've already said I'm a programmer, and let's just say my business card says "senior consultant". Sure, it's not a CEO salary by a very wide margin, but trust me, I _can_ afford a TV or a computer (in PVR form or not). The economy isn't _that_ bad yet
It doesn't mean I can't sneer at conspicuous consumption, though. Just because I can afford to blow money on stuff I don't need, doesn't mean I _have_ to.
I see people digging themselves into debt every day trying to keep up with the proverbial Joneses, and to preferrably out-spend the Joneses. Unfortunately consumerism is a never-ending race. People think "wow, how happy I would be if I had just that one extra piece of merchandise." And they actually are... for a whole couple of days. Then, due to how the human brain works, it becomes the new baseline. And they need to one-up it to get their next temporary high. And then the Joneses buy an even bigger gizmo, and now they have to one-up _that_. It never ends, and it never actually works like people hope. It's a neverending carrot on a stick that people hold in front of their own eyes. Surely the _next_ purchase will be the one that keeps you happy for ever. Oops. It still didn't.
So there you go. Make what you will out of that.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
But unfortunately, mobile phone network operators with decent coverage in North America tend to turn off phone features such as being able to copy MP3 files from my PC using a data cable or Bluetooth connection. Instead, they want me to pay for airtime to copy them through the cell tower, or worse yet, they want me to buy them from the overpriced online store.
Yes there is. You'd have to wait 15 more years for Apple's and Creative's patents to run out.
So, I suppose the 56" HDTV I bought (which, nobody aside from myself has seen) is just for 'impressions'? And the hours I spent setting up Meedio was just so I can show off? I think not.
While I understand the point you are trying to make, I don't think your sweeping generalization is accurate.
People buy HDTV's because they DO look better. In addition to that, they are - for the most part - flat and don't take up as much space as previous generations of TV's.
Those two things account for FAR more of the market than "impressing people". Adding an HTPC to an HDTV is trivial even for the newbies. In fact, most HDTV's coming out have a VGA-in connection and if they don't have that, they certainly have a DVI-in. So it seems like a natural conclusion (to me, at least) that I should be able to view my downloaded content on my HDTV via my HTPC. And I am not alone judging by the interest in iPod videos and movies...
That is the draw of the HTPC. Watching downloaded content on your 56" HDTV instead of your 19" LCD monitor in the office.
And the first one to make that seemless, easy, and relatively inexpensive is going to win. Right now, we are nowhere close to that for a variety of reasons: DRM, crappy software (Media Center), pricing, etc so it seems natural that the HTPC is not-yet-ready-for-primetime.
When the content is there, you will see HTPC's taking off.
But the MPAA would give an intercourse if you sell already built PCs running MythTV software with full support for DVD Video.
Machinima anyone? If a demo such as .the .product can fit into 64 KiB, imagine what can fit into 64 MiB. How much space do you think two hours of SWF vector animation and voice acting would take up? But for actual video shot with a camcorder or film camera, patents are still a problem for independent video distribution, as a lot of codecs' patent pools ask for royalties per copy.
I use a laptop computer, compact computer projector, small high-quality speakers, and infrared wireless microphone system, and a handheld motion sensor integrated into a single portable box as a combination personal computer, home theater system, and many other functions. I control the system mostly through voice command, using the motion sensor as the pointing device (mouse) when needed.
I can read and respond to electronic mail, surf the Web, play audio and video from the Web, play DVDs and CDs on the computer easily. In principle, TV tuner could be added to the computer. In practice, I think people will move to downloading movies from the Web.
This is a do-it-yourself system assembled from different readily available products. The future would be a simple compact turnkey system probably using a solid-state projector.
Some information on the system can be found at http://www.petrana.net/
Just how slow is that box you call a PC? Granted, PC's aren't "instant-on" like the home computers of old (/me hugs his CoCo), but they aren't nearly as slow to boot up as they were. I would say a minute at most for most machines to start up and get to a login screen. Most of the issue is the speed of the hard drive and the number of drivers and such being loaded. Cut back on the drivers and other modules being loaded, switch to CF media or similar for your boot partition, and things should be much faster. Better yet, just leave the thing on during the day, and only boot it in the morning (you might be able to find a motherboard that can do this automatically). Or, how about just being a tad patient?
I have a TV, a VCR, and a DVD. Media PC couldn't play the VCR tapes anyway, and frankly browsing through my shelves of DVDs is no slower than digging through menu trees to find the files if I ripped them to a drive.
Only if you don't set up your Media PC system properly. Rip the VCR tapes via a tuner card (for those tapes which you archived shows off TV, say), or buy DVD's of the movies (if you have the money), then rip them to your fileserver. Your fileserver backend should consist of a database with some metadata fields to help you index it all, and pointer fields to the actual VOB/MPG files. Add a frontend browser web server system (or standalone application or plugin for your favorite viewer app). Yeah, you might have to do some coding here (though I am sure by now plenty of people have coded and released open source apps just like this). You will only have to dig through menu trees if you are truely lazy with your initial setup.
A TV with VCR and DVD is a No brainer. Kids can run them without any reasonable likelihood of destruction. No driver issues, compatibility issues, no mysteriousness: Turn it on, insert media, watch.
Yes, a standard setup is a "no-brainer", but if you set up the system properly, and keep it locked away, there should be even less a chance of destruction with a Media PC, simply because there won't be any physical media for the kiddies to "destroy". Keep the controls on the remote and GUI stupid-simple (take a look at how digital cable-boxes do it, or TIVO), and even a kid will be able to figure it out (can't say the same for adults - but there are retarded people in every generation, unfortunately).
TV resolution is retarded for using any computer function. Even Hi-def TVs are nice, but they're not 1920x1280 like the top end computer monitor.
I can't remember - does the HDTV standard even go up to 1280 (I thought 1080i was the highest)? Even so, a good XGA or SXGA DLP system (rear or front projected) is more than enough for TV-based entertainment (actually, my wife would say a 9" B&W set would be more than enough, but we won't ask her). You will have plenty of resolution for web-based browsing and game playing, plus movie watching, on your HTPC with that kind of a setup. If this still isn't enough, and you have the cash, go with a dual (or if you are really rich - quad) tiled-projector setup and a multi-head card. Of course, this setup moves you out of the "Media PC" realm and into the "Large Network Ops Center" category...heh.
the 'setup' of a typically-comfortable tv-viewing home theater is rarely conducive (IMO) to getting productive work done in most contexts
The office is for work, the living room (or bedroom, if you prefer) is for fun and relaxation. About the only "work" you should ever think about doing with a Media PC setup is posting the occasional Slashdot comment or reading/replying to an email or two. Of course, if you have a large-screen projector setup (or even a decent size LCD or Plasma), you can do real "work" with it. I mean, at my work we seem to get along fine with such a similar setup when we have meetings in our conference room and such, and t
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
... he said she shouldn't HAVE to know. There's an important difference. In my house, my wife is the one who sets up the televisions, stereos, etc, and although I could figure it out if I needed to, I don't particularly WANT to. I just want it to work. The point here is that you shouldn't need to be an expert on how the system is set up just to be able to use it.
Sean
All these PC problems posts are amusing.
...and the included remote.
I only have to attach a tv-in module to my mark one Macmini and I have a sweetly operating TIVO-multi-media computer in a matter of seconds.
Or I could get one of the Mac/Windows IntelMacMinis and do it with both Mac and Windows software.
Once you get out of the trap of Windows-PC only line of thinking, it's a snap to have a reliable SuperTivo/MultiMedia computer.
I don't own a TV, but I just purchased a new PC with a TV Tuner card and a 20" widescreen monitor. It has two codec chips, so I can either record two shows, or record one channel and watch another. And since I have Windows XP Media center 2006, all the "tivo"-like functions are handled by the Media Center. For free.
Earlier this year I was looking at getting an HD TV, and it seemed the PC solution was both cheaper and superior to anything I could find. Since I have a small apartment, getting a huge home theatre wasn't what I was looking for. And even if it were, there are now PC-centric options, like VGA projectors, which I could use to control such a setup.
The future is now. If someone wants a wired family room, it's completely viable. But Windows Media Center seems to be the one leading the way.
The reason we aren't getting more in the way of media PCs is that it is an IP and DRM nightmare. Talk to the MPAA, RIAA, broadcaster's association and so on. Talk to the congress critters out to apparently maximize the profit of publishers, innovators estates and middlemen but not to inform, educate and enhance creativity of the American people. The technology is here now. Demand is what people know is possible and available. Lets stop making meaningless excuses and address the real issue.
Who is this mythical "everyone"? You and your three friends on IRC?
WMP is a piece of shit
You have been called and handed your ass on this before. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. And your spelling sucks.
and it's because of DRM
DRM on WMP? Is that the one checkbox that ships turned off by default? Is that what you're referring to? Good lord, can't you do better than that?
I recently heard a claim from MS that their OEMs were selling more than a million media centre PCs with TV cards each quarter, which is more than Apple sell of all their laptops and desktops combined.
It does indicate there actually is a significant demand out there but perhaps it isn't as big as the rest of the computer industry.
Mog