New Alienware PC an Overpriced Underperformer

Steve Kerrison writes "Alienware has jumped on board the Core 2 bandwagon and rightfully so, but their new Area-51 7500 loses out to cheaper and faster solutions from other companies. From HEXUS.net's review 'No matter which way we dress up the Alienware's performance and feature-set, it's relatively poor in comparison to SKUs that we've reviewed recently. Value for money may not be the greatest concern in this sector of the pre-built market but when you can get substantially more for less, it becomes impossible to recommend this particular Area-51 7500.' "

Comments

What did you expect?

[fotbr]

Its a Dell.

Re:What did you expect?

[ConsumerOfMany]

perhaps they forgot to check all the free upgrade boxes when checking out.....

Re:What did you expect?

[DaveWick79]

Unfortunately, while somewhat sarcastic, this is probably true. Being under Dell's wing probably profits Alienware financially but lowers the quality standard. The focus used to be not just to make a pretty machine, but one that spanks the competition and was backed up by some of the best service in the business. If I'm going to pay Alienware type money, I expect to get the fastest machine money can buy.

Re:What did you expect?

[qortra]

While I understand that Dell sucks (I hate them too), I don't really think that I understand your comment. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me that Dell could have a sub-brand that did focus on performance, and while they might be overpriced, could probably put together something at the very pinnacle of performance available from consumer parts. I don't think that somehow the "innate Dellness" slipped through the vents in the case and made it slow. Perhaps Dell mismanaged it, but it wasn't a forgone that they would do so, and it isn't necessarily true that Dell will continue to mismanage it. Heck, it might not be Dell at all. Maybe Alienware just screwed up; all kinds people do that (Dell employees and even formerly non-Dell employees!).

Either way, whoever is responsible will probably wake up quickly if they get more reviews like this.

Re:What did you expect?

[Tweekster]

I never had a problem with Dell computers...As long as you get a wiping utility to remove all that cruft they install.

Well that and the laptop battery exploding thing... (But even Apple has that issue so its hardly a dell only prob)

Re:What did you expect?

[SatanicPuppy]

My biggest problem with them is the crappy mobo's they install by default. Substandard bios, breaks the standard for power connectors, and lower bus/bridge performance...Run a machine with the same stats and a better motherboard, and the difference is night and day.

Just not kosher...If I wanted to have to buy an entirely new machine to upgrade every time, or pay dell an obscene amount for any sort of upgrade, I'd just rent the damn things.

Re:What did you expect?

[Grym]

While I understand that Dell sucks (I hate them too)...

I understand that there are good reasons to dislike Dell. It's very difficult to get a good computer at a reasonable price from them lately. However, I have had a very good experience with Dell.

In 2002, I got a Dell Dimension 8200 with a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 processor, 512 MB RDRAM, an Nvidia 4200ti graphics card, a Soundblaster Live soundcard, an 80 Gb harddrive, CD-RW, and a DVD drive for $2200. At the time, that was an incredible deal. I couldn't have built the same computer on my own without paying hundreds more.

Two years later, I was upgrading the graphics card when I accidently mangaged to fry the motherboard. (I'm still not sure how that one happened--I was grounded the entire time.) After a 30 minute phonecall (lol yes with technician from India) where I did a number of tests to verify that it was, in fact, dead, the warrenty kicked in and only three days later, a computer repair guy was in my house (at no cost) and replaced not only the motherboard but the two drives, the processor, the RAM, the powersupply, and the soundcard. For all intents and purposes, I got a new computer because of my own negligence. Now how's that for customer service?

With only two upgrades of a Geforce 6800 (unlocked pipelines, slightly overclocked) and an extra 512 MB of RD RAM, that computer is what I still use today to play even new videogames.

Granted, I'm probably the exception rather than the rule, but I think it's unfair to say that Dell is always a bad deal or that Dell's customer service universally sucks.

-Grym

Re:What did you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Alienware computers look hideous. Something a child would covet.

Re:What did you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your CPU wouldn't run most new games.

Re:What did you expect?

[fotbr]

I've got a Dual PIII 1ghz setup that will run everything I've thrown at it exept FEAR (which kills everything, regardless of CPU specs from what I've read) at 1600x1200 with few problems as long as I lock all the windows stuff to the 2nd processor, and let the game have the first all to itself.

I've got a 2nd machine set up similar to Grym's except with a 2.2Ghz P4 that will also run everything I've thrown at it.

Contrary to AMD & Intel's propaganda, you usually do not need $LATEST_AND_GREATEST to play $GAME unless you absolutely insist on seeing refresh rates 3 or 4 times what the human eye can distinguish. In which case, you're simply chasing higher numbers for the sake of chasing higher numbers -- not that there's anything wrong with that, I won't tell you how to spend your money.

Re:What did you expect?

[KazerSoza]

Incorrect. I run a 2.6Ghz P4 (older Northwood) 400 Mhz FSB. 1 GB of DDR 400, with a ATI 9600 Pro (256 MB AGP). Not all the latest, however was having a blast playing Elder Scroll Oblivion this weekend, and WoW and Battlefield 2 runs like a champ.

Re:What did you expect?

[gamlidek]

While I understand that Dell sucks (I hate them too), I don't really think that I understand your comment. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me that Dell could have a sub-brand that did focus on performance, and while they might be overpriced, could probably put together something at the very pinnacle of performance available from consumer parts.

Yeah, think of alienware as Dell's new microbrewery. Same crap, just costs more.

/gam/

Re:What did you expect?

[Zelbinian]

And for my money, I've always considered Voodoo PC to be my choice as far as a prebuilt system goes. Especially now that they're one one of the few 'elite' brands not owned by some other corporation.

Re:What did you expect?

[dr.fishopolis]

you spent 2200 on a pc? i don't get where the deal is, nonetheless an incredible one... these are my guesses as somebody who built himself 2 gaming pc's in this time (1 in 2001, 1 in 2004)...

p4 mobo - $150
2.4ghz p4 - $250
512 MB RDRAM - $150
Nvidia 4200ti - $200
SB LIVE - $40 (audigy was out by now)
80GB HDD - $150
CD-RW - $30
DVD-R - $50
Case - $50
PSU - $50
keyboard/mouse - $20
------
$1140 USD + no tax, as you're buying on the internet.

That's just about what i spent on each of my "top of the line at the time" gaming pcs. Each of these had guaranteed better parts on each and every item outisde of the proc, than dell uses, so the prices i quote are probably too high for dell, though I accounted for the case and psu to be "cheap".

So where's the deal? Is the 10 minutes of effort to put your cpu together worth a grand+?

Re:What did you expect?

[ravenshrike]

Consciously distinguish, but when you have twitch gamed long enough your responses are no longer conscious, and in fact higher refresh rates do allow for better reaction time. OTOH, for anything other than certain FPS's and combat flight sims, you are correct about the uselessness of a refresh rate faster than 60-85.

Re:What did you expect?

[Grym]

Well, it's been awhile, but I do remember that many of those prices were more expensive than what you have listed. Particularly the processor, the RAM, the HDD and the CDRW drive ($30? are you kidding?) were in early 2002 no way near what you have above. Furthermore you also omitted the shipping and software costs. For my computer, I needed Microsoft Windows XP Pro (my undergrad required Pro) but also the Microsoft Office Suite (again, required).

I'm not saying it wasn't strictly possible to build the same computer at the same or lower price, but it couldn't have been much lower. And you certainly couldn't have done it going through reputable dealers. After doing a bunch of research, I concluded at the time that it was a better buy to just go with a pre-made.

-Grym

Re:What did you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, in the summer of 2002 (July-ish), I built a computer from scratch (case and all) with a 2.4 GHz P4 Northwood, 1GB DDR333, a 128MB Geforce 4 Ti 4600, a Soundblaster Live, a CD-RW and a DVD... slightly better specs than what you got and all high quality parts, and only spent $1350... how can you claim that $2200 was any kind of good deal? I finally got rid of the moterhboard/cpu/ram and replaced it with a cheap $300 PentiumD rig and an x800 about a month ago.

Re:What did you expect?

[dr.fishopolis]

indeed, software does add to that, especially if you want MS office.

The RAM was that cheap, i bought a RDRAM machine in 2001, pc-800. Interestingly, last I checked (last year) on ebay it's still that expensive. RDRAM seems to have never fluctuated in value. HDD sounds right to me, i lost an 80gb that very year and had to replace that... That's what I paid at a local store, could have saved probably 30 bucks by doing it online.

CD-RW? I paid 250 for a scsi internal in 98 (haha), then about 15 in 2004 for an internal IDE. 30 sounds about right, but ok... 50?

The proc is just a guess, but my 1.5ghz p4 and my 3.0ghz p4 were both that much, and they were both "2nd tier" at the time. I think 3.2 had just came out when i bought my 3.0, is what i mean by 2nd tier.

And you're right, it's not a huge difference if you're going against other pre-mades. If you're the type that cares about tech support from dell (you couldn't pay me to call india and have them tell me what's wrong with my computer, but I understand different types...) that adds some value for you too.

But versus premade, dell is still tacking on est 5-600 bucks even after the software, and you're still getting inferior parts vs homemade.

So, OK, i'll grant you a deal compared to premades... an incredible deal? i'll still have issues there ;)

Part of my reaction, as well, is that I just spent part of my weekend fixing my friends gateway. Celeron 1.1ghz with 128mb of pc-133 and a 20gb harddrive, she paid gateway 2k for it in 2001. So a) 2k on a pc makes me twitch, and b) you did get an incredible deal next to her... heh.

Re:What did you expect?

[Grym]

In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention two things I forgot. I *did* have to buy a new power supply because the original one did not have enough wattage to support my 6800 and because dell uses their propeitary plugs, it did cost quite more than a power supply should. Secondly, that that $2200 included a 20-inch Sony Trinitron CRT monitor.

Regardless, if I could afford a new computer now, yeah, I wouldn't touch a pre-made one--not even after my good experience with Dell, for the reasons you stated. But I don't think that that is a reflection on Dell as a company but the whole business of pre-made computers in general.

-Grym

Re:What did you expect?

[sumdumass]

Dell has generaly made stable computers. Lots of tricks/processes they use to make these computers stable usualy cause it to run slower then a comparible system made by anyone else. This is done in hardware too, It doesn't matter how many times you reload the system, I have never seen a Dell computer perform as fast as one made by me or any manufacturer using the same parts. I have a good laugh when I build a budget system, some one tells me or the client they got a dell that has the same parts for 2 hundred less but then becomes puzzled when my budget system is actualy noticably faster. All i can say is, thats what happens when you let a stoner surfer dude talk you into buying computers (dude, your getting a Dell!).

BTW, dell ususaly use ASUS mainboards and do a little reconfiguring or neglect certain parts. Generaly the mainboard can be matched visualy identicle to some Asus product wich under the same hardware and Asus bios will outperform the Dell.

In short, dell computers are slow compared to what is availible. It just seem right in that when they try for performance, it remains slower then it needs to be. After all, What did you expect? Its a dell

I doubt it is Alienware's fault either. Well Alianware from before dell bought it, dell could have replaced the managment making these decisions. Alienware has always produced the fastest home systems possible. I remeber them kicking ass back in '95-96 when I built my first computer based on thier specs for a system a friend bought. Before Dell bought them, they tested everything and made sure it was killer before selling it. You didn't have someone looking at a spec sheets with third party claims to speed and claiming it should be fast, You actualy had someone verifying the claims and matching the performance when the parts are put together. Then once it performed, it was sold.

Re:What did you expect?

[aaronl]

You can swap a few pins on a normal power supply to have it work on a Dell motherboard. Just for future reference. ;-)

Re:What did you expect?

[snuf23]

These are standard quality parts. Read the review. The place that this system sucks is in the high end. It's not that the parts are low quality, it's that they are overpriced and don't push the limits. The top end system that it is compared to is heavily overclocked - the Alienware is running at stock clocks. The other two systems use to 7900GTX cards in SLI versus Alienware with a single 7950GTX (2 GPUs on one card) which performs slower than 2 cards. Of course you can add another 7950GTX to go to a quad SLI setup.
Basically Alienware is overpriced and has been for years. Ever since the name got popular among gamers they attached a premium to the systems. I haven't seen an Alienware system compare favorably on a price/performance basis in years.
This doesn't have anything to do with Dell.

Re:What did you expect?

[a_greer2005]

"The focus used to be not just to make a pretty machine, but one that spanks the competition"

Bullshit, all builders use the same chips (either Intel or AMD x86), mobos, RAM, GPU, HDDs and optical drives...they just used high end ones and not the low end ones...the only thing that makes AW differant than any other "gaming" bos is the cases, which are all show; an $1800 beige box can beat a $3000 AW hands down.

Re:What did you expect?

[Monkeys!!!]

Your not the only one.

I recently had my power adapter die for my Dell lappy. When I emailed them, they rang me back and asked me a couple of questions. The lady that rang spoke perfect English (I think she was Singaporian), was polite and had sound technical knowledge. They then air expressed my replacement from the other side of the country and I had my replacement in two days. All in all, it took about 15 mins of my time, all of which was painless.

On a side note, my laptop was relativly a great deal (I'm in Australia where computer gears seems to cost twice as much compared to elsewhere).

Re:What did you expect?

[Anonymous Coward]

For all intents and purposes, I got a new computer because of my own negligence. Now how's that for customer service?

that's not so much good customer service as a messed-up corporate service policy. I don't think it's so much that they WANTED to do this, but that in their pre-prepared support scripts, when X happens do Y, and it's an oversight on their part that they didn't know how to "correctly" (in the sense of business-profit) handle such a situation. any bean counter who finds out about this will stop it, and from what I understand about current dell practices, they have - so this positive experience you have with them is from outdated sampling data.

Re:What did you expect?

[forgotten_my_nick]

> While I understand that Dell sucks

Mileage varies TBH.

I had to get a laptop and I went with an XPS. Expensive but exceptional machine. Well worth it and outperformed quite a few custom rigs I had bumped into at lans. (average 150fps maxed resolution in CS:S). Paid close to 3,000 euros for it.

Haven't had any problem with the machine at all. Based on that my mother bought a desktop off them. 19 inch XTFT flatscreen and medium range machine (total cost was 1163 euros + scanner/printer). Machine is working perfectly. The wife is getting the same machine because its so sleek, fast and very very quiet.

If you think its sucks you should try a Tesco PC. Something the mother had beforehand because it was cheap (700 euros + printer + table). Horrible machine.

Another nice thing about Dell was the ease in which to buy the machine. I absolutly hate trying to buy a machine in a store now as you get some guy on commission trying to sell you the most expensive out of date POS.

If I had to fault Dell on anything though it has to be thier customer service. I mean the Customer service is ok, but what bugs is that the few people I have spoken to in that area (all Indians) only one of them spoke like a human. They would say something from a script and when you deviate it was like you had never spoken and they move onto the next part of the script even if you had answered that for them earlier on. I mean one point the person had asked me my name and address and then 5 minutes later asked me the exact same thing again despite them even having my order in front of them.

Re:What did you expect?

[lgw]

For FEAR at 1600x1200, turn on "pixel doubling" and full-screen anti-aliasing. FEAR will render the screen at 800x600, but anti-alias at 1600x1200, which to my eyes was indistinguishable from true 1600x1200 and gave 3 times the framerate.

CPU speed is by far the least important aspect of gaming performance for FPS games. There are some RTS games in which CPU matters a little, but that's about it. GPU, system memory, and sustained throughput speed to the hard drive (for level changes) all matter more.

The guys who believe that 120Hz refresh improves your reaction time compared to 80Hz are just like audiophiles: you can't talk sense to them, and you don't want to as their prayer offerings to the hardware vendors are subsidizing your purchase!

Re:What did you expect?

[ZERO1ZERO]

In Quake 3, the physics engine is affected by the frame rate rendered. Something to do with th client/server arrangement and the rounding of fractional data. at certain FPS speeds, (e.g 125fps, 333fps) the player can actually jump higher and longer due to the rounding UP of the movement data.

So for certain games, high framerate is important, but everbody knows 95% of the latest games can be run fine on last years hardware.

Re:What did you expect?

[ZERO1ZERO]

CD-RW? I paid 250 for a scsi internal in 98 (haha)

Ouch, I feel your pain, I bought a 6x SCSI internal in 99 for 170 GBP. Lasted until 2003. Still use the SCSI card though

When I replaced it with a 52X Lite-on CD-RW the first few discs I burned popped out so quick I didn't believe it had burned the data...

Re:What did you expect?

[dr.fishopolis]

indeed, the flip side is the SCSI internal is probably still running. I sold it on ebay in '03 when I stopped using my computer that had on-board scsi, and went the 52x ide route as well. But when I sold it, that thing was still running at 100%.

They just don't make things like they did way back in 98 :P

Re:What did you expect?

[Bloke down the pub]

render the screen at 800x600, but anti-alias at 1600x1200, which to my eyes was indistinguishable from true 1600x1200

You need glasses. Or maybe you should sit a little closer to the screen - anything under about 20 feet should do it.

Re:What did you expect?

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

You are young in your knowledge of games... It is apparent in your typing. (Don't worry, I am young in my knowledge of english, and I am a white american born and raised here) The reason you want high frame rates is so that when the action gets intense, the frame rates don't dip below a certain level. For instance: If your in say Q4 and your playing by your self on level x. You expect the Framerate to be about 100 or so, (way higher than the necesary 40-60 right?) but what happens when your online with the distance maxed out, and you have a ton of people on screen firing their graphicly intense weapons? You don't see 100 fps anymore. Not even close. Because normally you have 3-5 people on screen, now you have 20, and those 20 are all firing some weapon that has massive special effects.

Lets try WoW. In PVE when your just leveling or doing the occasional 5 man, you have a few things going on here and there. Your frame rate stays at 50-60 When you hit 60 and start farming MC all the sudden you have massive effects, AOE spells, 40 differant people with 40 differant visual effects running, BOOM(sound of machine grinding to hault) FPS at 19 (thats if you have SMOKIN specs)

I agree that frame rate junkys tend to concentrate on the fps in game x with hardware Y vs hardware Z. But do understand that there is a reason for it.

I say play at a Resolution you can afford.

Re:What did you expect?

[fotbr]

I'm far from young in knowlege of games -- I've been gaming since getting my C64, and haven't quit yet. I just don't see the need to chase the almighty frame rate -- mostly because I'm not a twitch gamer. My gaming interests have evolved past the need to just randomly blow things up and kill virtual things. I view most player vs player environments as the equivalent of elementary-school "I can pee farther than you" dick wagging.

I'll take a decent combat flight simulator over ANY first person shooter. And I do mean SIMULULATOR, not "arcade" type combat, which often falls back into "twitch gamer" status. Give me something like any of the Falcon line -- where the book is 400+ pages, and dropping a bomb is more involved than "pressing button B on the joystick". Something with realistic flight models. Something where death is permanant and you have to start over.

So while I'm aware of the "advantages", the simple fact is that 30 frames/sec is about all that is really needed for actions to be smooth. Pulling 60 frames/sec 90% of the time should still keep your frame rate above 30 frames/sec in "intense" moments. The biggest reason to chase 100+ frames/sec rates is for bragging rights amongst the hardcore gamer crowd.

But hey, its your money, and your time. Do with it as you like, don't let me stop you. Just keep in mind that because we don't worship at the almighty temple of the frame rate, doesn't mean that we're not gamers.

Re:What did you expect?

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

I see your point, but you proved it yourself when you talk of simulator games. It is long known that simulator graphics suck. You have to draw a much further distance, it takes a great deal of power to pruduce a realistic looking terain. It's just not there yet. Infact sims are far more graphically intensive than most "TWITCH" games you describe. Not to mention that on a sim, it's likely you'll have more monitors to output data to.

P.S. I was just proving a point, I like to play the Price/performance ratio game. I feel that I need to make the best of about $1500 when I build a computer for my self.

This isn't news

[grasshoppa]

Alienware isn't about the "fastest". True, they have fast systems, but it's more about the 'bling' factor.

They're target market is upper middle class, specifically the middle age men who like to game and have disposable income and the kids with rich parents.

Re:This isn't news

[grasshoppa]

*their

NEED MOAR COFFEE!

Re:This isn't news

[legoburner]

On that matter, I am suprised I have never seen Alienware machines bundled with other over-the-top purchases like sports cars, etc. I would have thought that the play-in-sports-cars types had a large crossover with the play-video-games types, but now that I think about it, I assume they are more into playing console games on a massive LCD/plasma TV than a PC. I guess the PC just doesnt have the glorifyied image that has started to build up around games consoles which is why there is only one company widely known for making these excessively priced gaming PCs.

Re:This isn't news

[Mister Whirly]

I once saw a condominium that was offering "Free Alienware computer" with the purchase of one of their condos. I though to myself, "Perfect! An overpriced computer comes with their overpriced condo!"

Re:This isn't news

[Paul Slocum]

And here's the most important thing from the article -- what it looks like:
http://img.hexus.net/v2/systems/Alienware/A517500/ FrontB.jpg

Re:This isn't news

[F_Scentura]

Where was this?

Re:This isn't news

[Mister Whirly]

In a suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota.

Re:This isn't news

[kcbnac]

I'm suprised that isn't attached to the new condos downtown off Nicolette - $98,000-$238,000 for 1-2 bedroom Condos...

Re:This isn't news

[Mister Whirly]

Yeah, some condos on Nicollet and 38th were giving away "Free Plasma TV with purchase of condo" - I hope those folks are enjoying their "quality" Daewoo TVs... I can't understand why someone would want to live somewhere that they have neighbors 5 feet away and pay what you could get a decent house for, not to mention the fact that even after your condo is paid off you still have a stupid association fee to pay...

Custom Built way to go

[SSGamer]

If you want value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[$RANDOMLUSER]

And while most of the /. crowd is perfectly comfortable with that, what percentage of the general population do you think is capable of changing a power supply, for example?

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Anonymous Coward]

None I guess unless they can use a screwdriver.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Alex P Keaton in da]

The car analogy comes into play:
A lot of people can build you a car that is by far faster than a lamborghini, for about a quarter of the cost. Just pick up an issue of Car Craft for evidence. The thing is, many people want something fast and stylish right from the manufacturer that they can just put the key in and go. The guy who builds a car from junk yard and aftermarket parts that runs sub 10 seconds in the quarter mile for under 15K is not the same guy who drops 200K on a lamborghini, due to finances, interests, or both....

Re:Custom Built way to go

[It'sYerMam]

Probably a similar, although non-identical, population to those who would benefit from a top-performance PC. That means gamers and techies. The two often go together, and where they do not, a gamer often has enough knowledge due to his enthusiasm, peers and so on, that it's not too much of a problem.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[sqlrob]

If you want value, that is not necessarily true. Time is not free and needs to be factored in.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[zoney_ie]

The point is that you can get far better value and performance even in the world of prebuilt than the nonsensical Alienware offerings.

Personally, I'm happy with my *year and a half old* Dell system that I got for €1450, including four-input 20" ultrascan flat panel (1600x1200 native), Geforce 6800, P4 3GHz, 1GB RAM, 160GB HDD, in a stylish, well-cooled and compact midi-tower (with spare slots for expansion). I recently availed of 3 years more warranty for €94 including *replacement* of the flat panel if it acts up (admittedly unlikely). Incidentally, the derided Dell allow in their warranty (at least the one I got) the modification of my system (obviously only their components remain covered).

Not bad for prebuilt.

My current intention is to buy a 512MB graphics card for €300; the x1900xt is now (finally) at that price in Europe. But actually, I'm content enough to wait longer and see how things evolve with the release of the x1950xtx.

I'm shopping for a laptop though - and for that I haven't seen a good Dell offer yet (have been shopping for maybe 8 months). But many of the alternatives, while cheaper, are less flexible and not what I want. Actually, I did recently get a cheaper Dell system specced that matches what I can get with say, Acer, but really I want upgraded resolution (not just WXGA) at the same price (€1200-€1400). I'll keep shopping, checking and waiting, which is really what is most needed in getting good value.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[psymastr]

Insightful my ass. Where I live (Greece) 90% of people who aren't buying their first computer pick the components and order them. You can have them delivered to you and ready to assemble or you can have it delivered assembled with the parts you picked (for a fee of about 5 euros or about 7$.)

OS is optional, you can install whatever you want.

Every time a discussion about Dell or Alienware or whatever comes up in /. I'm amazed how people with great knowledge on IT (/. regulars) can discuss how good or bad Alienware PC's are. It's just a brand name people, the components inside are that matter. Dell etc. just do the assembly.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Skrynesaver]

Perhaps this is true if you're buying an appliance, which is the case for many but I would imagine that many on this board would concur with Tom Christiansen's view below. If you find the machine intrinsically interesting and want to be able to configure it to run your prefered OS/Desktop/Applications then...
"The computer is the game." ~ Tom Christiansen
PS. The time spent building a machine at home is time not spent on tedious chores ;)

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

And even ignoring the time factor, most of us can't get components at the same bulk prices as big name vendors. That can be significant even after the integrator adds their mark-up.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[c_forq]

There are many times a year that the deals Dell has come out to be FAR cheaper then buying the parts alone, let alone the assembly time. And the brand matters because you know parts are going to be the same throughout the entire brand (for example ALL Dell desktops use non-standard motherboards and power supplies, and their power supplies are rated different). Yes it is what is inside that matters, but it is a lot easier to find out what is inside a Dell then what is inside many other brands.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

If you want flexibility then custom-built is hard to beat, I'll give you that, and if you can choose compatible components with good drivers at will then of course you can control performance as well as anyone.

The thing is, I've built my own PC roughly every 3-4 years since forever. I'm getting too old (or at least too impatient) to mess around with heatsink glue, dealing with a mobo component vendor who insists it must be the other vendor's fault for supplying a dodgy processor, and all that jazz.

On the other hand, I'm also unwilling to buy an off-the-shelf box made up of mediocre components, with loads of software preinstalled (most of which I won't want, because the drivers will be out of date, I'd rather set up my own security software, etc.).

What I want, as a "power user" with some knowledge of the hardware but little time, is the ability to spec which major components I want, and have a system builder send me a box that's been tested before shipping and then wiped. I'm quite capable of installing my own multi-boot WinXP/Linux stuff, with my own hard drive partitioning scheme to share data, and so on. Just give me legit, standard-issue, unmodified copies of any software I want to install, and somewhere to download the latest Windows and Linux drivers for any hardware that isn't supported out of the box.

I was under the impression that Alienware used to supply that sort of kit, and coincidentally I've recently been thinking about buying my next PC and they were on the shortlist of possible suppliers, though I was somewhat concerned about whether the Dell buy-out would affect their business. I guess bad PR really does hurt, because the fact that I've seen this review now makes it much less likely that I'll buy from them.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Alioth]

Time needs to be factored in...but how much monetary value? Building a PC, for me, is something I find that's fun to do - it's a hobby. I don't price the time of any other of my hobbies, and I'm not going to when I build a PC because it's just part of the enjoyment of the project.

Sure, if you're getting a PC because you just want a machine, build time may be a consideration. However, if you're building your own to save money you're more than likely cash poor but time rich anyway...and with most professionals in the IT world, it's unlikely they could get paid for that time anyway having no paid overtime to do at work.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[atokata]

There are many times a year that the deals Dell has come out to be FAR cheaper then buying the parts alone, let alone the assembly time. And the brand matters because you know parts are going to be the same throughout the entire brand (for example ALL Dell desktops use non-standard motherboards and power supplies, and their power supplies are rated different). Yes it is what is inside that matters, but it is a lot easier to find out what is inside a Dell then what is inside many other brands.

Assuming that quality doesn't mean anything to the buyer. Yes, yes, I'm sure there will be plenty of people to defend Dell's quality to me; but the fact of the matter is that I still trust my own eyes when I look at the inside of a Dell. Trust me: Spend the extra couple hundred, get something good, and it'll save you money in the long run.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[hackstraw]

If you want value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap.

If you want a car considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a home considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a piece of furniture considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a piece of clothing considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a wristwatch considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a television considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

If you want a computer considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. True???

I simply do not believe that computers are the only commodity consumer device that requires the knowledge and skill and desire to hand build said commodity item better than any company with assembly lines in China, Japan, or the United States can do.

What is so special about computers? And is there a market for a commodity company to provide such value and performance products since there is no current company providing such things in the world today?

For those who have not escaped mom's basement in years, we would like to know...

Re:Custom Built way to go

[EvilNTUser]

I can assemble a new computer in under an hour. My salary would have to be pretty damn high.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Hoi Polloi]

99% of the people who build their own systems do it primarily because they enjoy it. The time spent on hobbies can't be assigned a value because profit isn't the point. The time I spent building my system was time I didn't spend watching TV or working on my old dog of a PC.

Now if you want to talk about whether I saved any money based on the cost of buying parts vs a premade system then that is a different matter. I don't think I saved much but I was able to buy exactly the parts I wanted. My price to performance ratio is probably also higher than most premade systems.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[c_forq]

I have to disagree with the saving money in the long run. I have one computer that is completely custom built, one that many parts came out of an old Dell, and one that is straight from Dell. I have never had issues with any of them, except for one hard drive failure (and it wasn't a hard drive in or from a Dell). In the long run a Dell is just the same to maintain (unless you pay for their extended warranty program, but I never do those deals).

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Hoi Polloi]

The guy who builds his own car has spent years learning his skills. He most likely makes a living doing something close to their hobby. If I wanted a hot-rod I'd either be looking at waiting 10+ years while I learned how and spent lots of $ on trial-and-error work or I could save up for a few years (assuming I'm rich) and just buy it from someone else who knows how to do it. Unless you are building a kit car, doing custom work isn't something you can jump into and even kits require a very good understanding of how cars work.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[sqlrob]

And install the OS
And install the apps

My free time is more valuable to me than my salary would indicate. I want to plug the computer in and go, especially if the primary purpose is for gaming.

I deal enough with security issues and such at work, I don't want to bother with it at home. Hence, for my gaming I went with consoles after getting fed up with the computer for gaming.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Hoi Polloi]

There are so many review sites, test sites, and forums where people try different hardware configs and post their experiences that unless you are interested in some truly obscure hardware you can usually find out if someone has had compatability problems. I researched my parts that way before buying. I also avoided the usual first generation hardware issues (and prices) by staying away from the bleeding edge. Thank god for Google!

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

That usually works, it's true, but there's always the odd case. For example, my current PC started life with a Radeon 9700 Pro, but suffered intermittent stability issues. It wasn't until several months later that an incompatibility in the power supply specs with the Asus A7V8X motherboard I was using came to light.

To give credit where it's due, after explaining this to Crucial, from whom I'd bought the graphics card, several months later, they did let me upgrade to a 9800 Pro for just the difference in price. (The 9800 Pro uses a different power connection, and didn't suffer the same weakness.) At the time, that was pretty much a state-of-the-art graphics card, and I'd bought the original 9700 Pro after checking it should be OK according to Crucial's compatibility guarantee. Perhaps this shouldn't seem exceptional - after all, the original card was flawed and Crucial had guaranteed compatibility when I bought it - but nevertheless, it's nice to see a company that was willing to back-up the sales pitch.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[ravenshrike]

Actually, except for the second to last, all of those are true. Car - For general purposes, aftermarket venues like AMG, Ruf, Mopar, etc... Can be considered custom built outlets. Think of it as having a friend build your computer for you and charging for his time. Home - The more closely you supervise the work and participate in the build of the house, the more likely you are to be happy with the final product, especially if you make sure they use higher qulity materials. Furniture - Custom built furniture is generally better than standard furniture, albeit more expensive. Clothing - All of the finest suits dresses shoes etc... are custom built. Wristwatch - See clothing Television - Um, TV is a standardized medium. This means that something either meets a standard or doesn't.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[atokata]

Everything you say is valid, up until you want to replace the mobo in the Dell as an upgrade. At that point, you'll find that Dell has moved all the chassis screw holes about a half inch to the right. Then, you're looking at buying a new case, too. Just saying.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[dilvish_the_damned]

If you want value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap.

Just how many custom built laptops do you own?

Re:Custom Built way to go

[c_forq]

That and a power supply, or at least you have to pick up a connection converter. (The machine I took stuff from a Dell was basically replacing those three components - motherboard, case, and power supply).

Re:Custom Built way to go

[atokata]

Heh, yeah. Totally forgot about the PSU. I guess it's stuff like that which has always rubbed me the wrong way about Dell-- I mean, the industry standard ATX power supplies work just fine. Why would they want to change that, if not to just be annoying about people using competing parts in their machines? (Of course, Gateway, HP, et al, do the same thing, so I guess I shouldn't just single out Dell.)

Re:Custom Built way to go

[PitaBred]

A highly-tuned car will be faster than a stock, showroom one.
A custom home will be exactly the way you want it, not just close.
Handbuilt furniture is of higher quality than pegged together particle board.
Hand-made wedding dresses fetch a major premium.
etc.
It's basically that pre-fab computers are slave to the bottom dollar, so they cut corners where possible to still deliver a functioning system and still reap profits. If you make your own machine, you get specific components that are high-quality, and together make an awesome machine, rather than a mediocre one that is limited by marginal quality in important components that was necessitated by the mass-manufacturing method it was produced through.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

I don't think your comparison is entirely fair. When we talk of "hand-building" computers, we're really talking about assembling individually-selected components, not soldering transistors onto circuitboards. Selecting the right components, and in particular the most effective combinations of components, does bring big gains, and most off-the-shelf vendors don't make the effort to do it optimally.

And for the record, if you've got a car mechanic who knows what he's doing, he'll also be quite capable of tuning up his motor and swapping in better components to get better performance. But he's not recrafting the engine block, either.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Millenniumman]

Building a car is extremely difficult and takes a lot of skill. Building a computer is relatively very easy, and really only requires being able to read a manual. Also, it would take a lot of effort and money to build something comparable to a Lamborghini. Something like the Ariel Atom would be possible for a very skilled person, and it may perform better than a Lamborghini in many ways, but it isn't at all the same thing, even ignoring the out-of-the-box differences.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Millenniumman]

"Dell etc." also do the support.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[toddestan]

Most people around here have more time on their hands than money. Why else do we cruise slashdot?

Re:Custom Built way to go

[toddestan]

If you want a piece of furniture considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

How about true? This is actually a good comparison to computers. The best perforance and value when it comes to furniture comes from stores like Ikea, where you buy a kit with the parts you need prefabbed, and you put it together. The same pretty much goes for computers. When most people say they built a computer, they meant they bought a bunch of premade parts and put them together. They don't mean that they started with a pile of ICs and a soldering gun to build the computer, which would be the furniture equilivent of starting out with a bunch of boards and a saw. You aren't going to get the best perforance and value from building your own disk drive or video card, but you do get the best performance by purchasing those parts prebuilt, and using them to create a computer.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[jasonditz]

It's not computers as a whole, there's no way you could build low end systems cheaper than a pre-fab, it's only the specialized high end market, and computers are not alone in the regard. Just off of the list, for a high end house or a high end article of clothing, custom is almost always the way to go.

If I want a very high end suit, I'm not buying it off the rack, I'm going to a tailor, and if I want a very high end gaming computer, I'm not buying it from Dell, I'm either going to hire someone who knows what they're doing to build me a custom system, or do it myself.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[WuphonsReach]

The thing is, I've built my own PC roughly every 3-4 years since forever. I'm getting too old (or at least too impatient) to mess around with heatsink glue, dealing with a mobo component vendor who insists it must be the other vendor's fault for supplying a dodgy processor, and all that jazz.

Motherboard bundles fix a lot of that particular issue. The seller puts the CPU/RAM/MB together and tests it (for a very small fee). Prior to finding someone who sold motherboard bundles, it was a pain to figure out which CPU goes with which RAM and which motherboard.

(I build around a system per month, currently 2-per month since we're doing a big upgrade cycle.)

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Alex P Keaton in da]

You are exactly right, and my analogy leaves a bit to be desired, but my point was that there are some people who can, and or enjoy building their own stuff. Others just like to buy something that is made my a large manufacturer and performs out of the box...
I can think of many examples- Whether it is framing (My sister in law frames pictures rather than paying a couple hundred dollars to have it done, I am incapable of using the miter box et all and making it come out looking nice)
Gardening may be a good example- I do all my own gardening- it is easy, and doesn't require a ton of knowledge (I am talking basic residential gardening- I know farming etc require a ton of science and knowledge). I enjoy it. My parents, who could tend their own beds, have a landscaper.
And I am not putting anyone down here- but there are a suprising number of people who play games who wouldn't even be comfortable putting some extra memory in their box... Hanging out on slashdot it is easy to forget that we are hobbyists/enthusiasts, and may be more comfy putting a box together...

Re:Custom Built way to go

[Just Some Guy]

If you want a piece of clothing considering value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap. False

So one day I'm hanging out with my sister, who happens to be sewing a dress. I asked her why she makes a lot of her own clothes. Was is it because it costs a lost less? No. She said that her work actually ended up costing more than an off-the-rack dress, but that it was much nicer for the price.

Same with computers. If I built a custom system, it'd cost quite a bit more than Dell's $299 back-to-school special, but it'd be far nicer than a system selling for the same price.

I don't bother hand-building machines for other people anymore, but when my next upgrade approaches, I'm reasonably certain that I'll be speccing out individual parts again.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[WuphonsReach]

I won't hand-build machines for other people either (support and warranty issues). I'll offer advice, parts-lists and hand-holding, but they have to do the grunt work and the O/S installation. I also make sure we capture an image of the drive using Knoppix+NTFSClone as well as installing a 2nd HD and some sort of backup software (Second Copy 2000 or XCOPY).

And you can do better then Dell's prices while still getting good quality parts. The downside is the 1-2 hours of assembly (depends on familiarity with the case and motherboard) and the time spent installing the O/S and applications. But the O/S and application installs can happen on the side while you do something else.

To give you an idea of what we're building for the office:

$0131 AA15070 WindowsXP Pro OEM
$0299 AA24200 Microsoft Office Pro 2003 OEM
$0148 MB-BA22656 AMD ATHLON 64 X2 3800+ AM2
$0084 (bundle) Asus M2NPV-VM
$0138 (bundle) Mwave 2GB DDR2 533 2x1GB RAM
$0009 (bundle) Assemble and Test
$0103 BA30107 Antec Sonata II w/ SmartPower 2.0 450W PSU
$0084 AA27440 SEAGATE 200GB ST3200827AS SATA 7200RPM 8MB
$0035 AA32590 NEC ND-3550A BLACK
$0008 AA36600 NEC Floppy (BLACK)
=====
$1039 ($740 w/o MS Office 2003)

Add another $75-$100 for a half-decent PCIe video card (in which case you should probably go with the ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 motherboard for another $10). Shipping costs will be around $75 (order everthing at the same time).

Estimated useful lifespan on these units is 8-12 years. Assuming no hardware defects such as bad capacitors on the motherboard. We're giving up the Dell warranty because it doesn't last past 3 years anyway. (And most parts come with 3yr or 5yr warranties.) Everything is commodity parts, which means a quick trip to the local CompUSA is the worst-case solution to fixing an issue.

Pricing something equivalent in power from Dell results in prices that are $1250-$1550. Plus we're able to re-use older components (floppies, DVD-ROMs, CD-ROMs, hard drives, cases, power-supplies) from older systems to cut some costs.

So it's not overly expensive to DIY. Motherboard bundles make it almost fool-proof compared to a few years ago. Hardest part is figuring out which motherboard to use and what case to put it all in.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[lgw]

A Lambo isn't all that. It's not that hard to put together a race car that will outperform one for $30-40K. Perhaps a little extra to make it street legal (assuming you start with a pre-cat frame). It will ride like a go-cart, but have you ever driven a Lamborghini? Go-cart.

Lamborghini, like Alienware, has performance, but the price is all about the looks and reputation.

Re:Custom Built way to go

[GaryPatterson]

How's your custom-built laptop going?

Re:Custom Built way to go

[dangitman]

If you want value and performance custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap.

You built your own Mac Pro Dual-dual-core Xeon Woodcrest machine, or Xserve RAID unit? I don't think many home builders have machines that come close to these. Being prebuilt does not mean that something is crap. It also means that you have a more limited choice in Operating Systems that you can run.

And where do you get case and motherboard designs that can compare to something like a Mac Pro?

Overpriced?

[BigDork1001]

It's overpriced you say, I never would have expected that from Alienware.

I've always found them to be overpriced compared to other, lesser known vendors or even just making it yourself. I guess if you want to brag to your friends "I have an Alienware!" and they all gasp in awe then it's worth the extra money but I think most people could care less.

Re:Overpriced?

[Afrosheen]

I would have to agree. The only time Alienware really trumps anything in value is when it comes to their laptops. You just can't get very many gaming laptops that perform like theirs do. Then again, nobody likes spending 5k+ for a laptop that weighs 17lbs.

Not really a big suprise.

[Crasoum]

When you buy Alienware you buy the name, and the spiffy injection molded case.

The rest is a good solid markup of 30% or more.

Re:Not really a big suprise.

[CastrTroy]

You could probably get the same hardware for much cheaper, and get a local artist to custom paint it to make it look nice. I'd much rather have a custom painted case than something I bought off the shelf. It's kind of like all those "modded" cases you can buy that are pre-modded. It's not a mod unless you actually "modify" it yourself.

Re:Not really a big suprise.

[edflyerssn007]

However, I don't think most regular artists can do custom molded cases like alienware. It is one thing to have a case that has a painted alien, its another to have a case that has a raised head.

-ed

Well Well

[imsabbel]

a) Alienware was never about price/performance
b) It doesnt use the fastest GPU solution, but the second fastest. So it obviously sucks and all (not that it would have any better price/performance if it used the more expensive sli version)
c) They account the difference in the kribibench score as "the Geforce makes the difference". Sorry, mr not-the-brightest-bulb. Kribibench is a CPU only benchmark. Next try.
d) Any site that comes with those nice "submit this article to slashdot/digg/assfaggot" bottoms should be banned per default. Its just arcticle spamming taken to the next level.

Re:Well Well

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. A little less than 20 years ago, I sold PCs, and was intimately familiar with the exact specs to get the ultimate in performance. (This was in th days of 30 pin SIMMs mind you.) This new company named Alienware appeared on the scene, and I figured they'd be like everybody else: Nope. Every single solitary thing I'd have chosen, their machines had. They had the fastest RAM, in a decent amount (2x what most PCs come with in other words.) fastest and best of everything.

I'm sad that they're not like that anymore. Their service sucks too apparently: Recently a coworker of mine ordered an Alienware, one of their mid-range models. There was a recall of this motherboard used, so they set his system to 'back order'. Over a month went by, they got the motherboards in stock, but - oops - they were now out of the video card! ('JIT manufacturing' for the loss, I guess.) At this point, it seems to me that to keep your disappointed customer happy you either refund a few hundred dollars of their money or bump them up to the next better machine for the same price. Alienware did nothing. My coworker held out another 2-3 weeks at least, and finally cancelled his order.

Re:Well Well

[SanityInAnarchy]

At least one thing still seems to be the same. With a headline like that, I expected this system to be just like any other Dell. Not so. It looks like just about everything I'd choose, with the exception of the twin Deathstars -- I'd have gotten a different brand, but that's it. I just don't see SLI making sense yet.

The service you describe is more like what I'd expect, though.

What you pay for.

[ZachPruckowski]

You pay extra (over the XPS or the custom-built machine) in exchange for extra service/support and the style factor. That's all it is. Quality parts assembled by a quality manufacturer in a sleek case. For a lot of people who want to game, and have more money than computing knowledge or assembly and maintenance time, Alienware or XPS is worth paying more for. They get something that "just works" (as well as any Windows PC does) with a warranty, and insure themselves from making stupid component decisions (stuff that is non-compatible, or stupid bottlenecks)

Re:What you pay for.

[LaughingCoder]

You pay extra (over the XPS or the custom-built machine) in exchange for extra service/support and the style factor. That's all it is. Quality parts assembled by a quality manufacturer in a sleek case.

Sounds suspiciously like Apple.

Re:What you pay for.

[ZachPruckowski]

Sounds suspiciously like Apple.

I almost mentioned that in the post. But Apple differs in that you get a complete software ecosystem that does a lot of things better than Windows (but some things not as well). You can't BYO OS X on Intel machine (at least not legally, in the US, right now). Apple attempts to distingush itself from Dell/HP/Gateway with the OS and the ease of use. Dell/HP/Gateway try to distingush themselves from a BYO solution with service/support and ease of set-up. It's similar, but not at all identical.

Re:What you pay for.

[steveo777]

Stupid Bottlenecks?! Kind of reminds me of my dad who calls me every time he wants to upgrade something on his computer. Generally on Sunday or Monday after he's read the ads in the paper. Or perhaps he's been tooling around on his interweb connection and thought he spotted a deal.

A typical voice mail...
"Son? It's me. I just saw a deal on RAM. It sounds like a good idea, but I wanted to run it by you. I've been wanting to speed up my computer for a while and you said RAM can help. I just saw on (some website) you could get 512MB of RAM for 20 dollars. It's PC133. What do you think?" My dad has a G5...

Re:What you pay for.

[ZachPruckowski]

I meant more like having 800mhz DIMMs in a board that only supports 667MHz DDR2, or X6800 with a PATA harddrive, mis-matched DIMMS in a dual-channel motherboard, or a 250W powersupply with a dual-core + SLI system. Stuff like that that a novice computer builder might not realize immediately.

boost their sales-- start bundling

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

They need to have a bundle with cpu and a set of spinners for your car.

Duh?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Are they finally admitting what many other people knew all along?

Out of interest...

[Fred Or Alive]

When did everything start becomming SKUs? Recently it seems everything is an SKU now. I knwo what it means, I just don't know why it seems to be thrown around so much, like in this quote. Why not say "... it's relatively poor in comparison to other systems that we've reviewed recently." or something.

Re:Out of interest...

[unts]

BWALA (Because We All Love Acronyms)!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_Keeping_Unit

Re:Out of interest...

[nacturation]

Oh, but surely you don't suggest they use regular street language! Everyone prefers the following:

"it's relatively poor in comparison to stock keeping units that we've reviewed recently"

Doesn't that sound way better? The only thing the article lacked was more information on the universal product code and serial number.

Re:Out of interest...

[gatesvp]

The concept of SKU is to differentiate system from complete, shipping systems that you can purchase as a single unit. When the reviewer receives an "SKU" they're receiving an actual shipping unit rather than a custom-built and specified system.

Not that I really like the concept myself, but it may have arisen from previous complaints about "system" being too nebulous or being different from items that could be purchased (anything with an SKU can be purchased).

Alienware customer service

[ronkronk]

In regards to Alienware's horrible customer service, I've got to weigh in. Last year I bought a laptop from them expecting a 15" 4:3 screen as pictured on their website when I ordered it. It took over a month to arrive, and what I got was a 15" widescreen with a 1680x1050 resolution -- I'm a young guy with decent vision (with corrective lenses) but this was too damn small for me and not what I ordered.

Add to that my X, C, and V keys were DOA, and when I powered up the computer it informed me the CMOS battery was dead. Alienware advertises extensive power-on load testing -- if any of that were true, they would have found and corrected this problem as soon as they tried to power it up! Additionally the video card and wifi drivers were not installed, so their marketing B.S. about fine-tuning drivers for you is just that.

To top this all off, I had to pay a 15% restocking fee to return my laptop for a refund. That was a $4k machine. Even after their false advertising as to the laptop design and absolutely no in-house testing -- despite the falsified testing sheet that came with it -- I lost $600 to them and it was two full months until I got the 17" Gateway laptop I now have. And it runs great.

Re:Alienware customer service

[jackbird]

And you didn't do a chargeback with your credit card company?

Re:Alienware customer service

[purpledinoz]

Maybe by "fine-tuned" drivers, they meant the default windows drivers. Ha, so they're not lying.

Re:Alienware customer service

[0xdeadbeef]

Give me your lunch money.

Re:Alienware customer service

[Kagura]

Woah, somebody correct me if I'm wrong but that's the most blatant corporate advertisement I've seen yet on Slashdot. And it wasn't even the brand new user number that gave it away.

Re:Alienware customer service

[EastCoastSurfer]

The screen thing could be chalked up to your fault for not looking at the specs. What I'm trying to figure out is why you paid a restocking fee in light of all the other issues that were going on with the computer.

My first call would've been to Alienware to let them attempt to rectify the situation, and my next call would've been to my CC company stopping any charges.

Re:Alienware customer service

[955301]

You should have bought a sager. http://sagernotebook.com./ That's all alienware notebooks are, with a paint job. And their customer support is nice and responsive. 1 year warranty, etc.

Re:Alienware customer service

[nanoakron]

And you didn't threaten to take them through small claims courts for (what you say are) obviously falsifiable claims?

Re:Alienware customer service

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Did you really have to pay that restocking fee? I don't know what the law is where you are, but here in the UK selling kit that wasn't fit for purpose would make the seller liable for pretty much everything automatically, and the authorities would be able to chase them pretty straightforwardly if they didn't refund everything in full. IIRC, they may even be liable for things like the return shipping. What jurisdiction are you in, and does it really not have consumer protection laws along similar lines?

Re:Alienware customer service

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

I would say that he does owe the restocking fee. Here's why:

If the guy orders a 15", gets a 15" with malfunctioning parts and then requests a replacement of the same exact model, no restocking fee should apply.

What is described is different though. He bought a 15", then decided he wanted a 17". At that point, he's decided to exchange one computer for a different one. The state of the original isn't what should be leading to the restocking fee, I would say the restocking fee should be applied because the guy is returning one item for a completely different one.

Re:Alienware customer service

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Well, I'm not the OP, but it sure doesn't sound like what he ordered:

I bought a laptop from them expecting a 15" 4:3 screen as pictured on their website when I ordered it. [...] Add to that my X, C, and V keys were DOA, and when I powered up the computer it informed me the CMOS battery was dead.

Re:Alienware customer service

[fm6]

Yeah, really. People get away with chargebacks that are outright fraud, never mind a customer with a long laundry list of legitimate complaints.

Restocking fees are for "I decided I didn't want it" situations, not defective merchandise that wasn't what you ordered. Of course, the customer service drone may try to tell you otherwise...

Re:Alienware customer service

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"I bought a laptop from them expecting a 15" 4:3 screen as pictured on their website when I ordered it. [...] Add to that my X, C, and V keys were DOA, and when I powered up the computer it informed me the CMOS battery was dead."

Come on, you think they didn't note the aspect ratio anywhere on the product page?

The problems with the battery and the keys are irrelevant (as I PREVIOUSLY noted).

Now seriously, you're saying that the alienware website failed to list the aspect ratio of the laptop? Or are you going to go with the guy that is ordering computers based on "pictures"?

Re:Alienware customer service

[Ihlosi]

To top this all off, I had to pay a 15% restocking fee to return my laptop for a refund.

How ironic. Literally, this would mean they "re-stock" a defective product to sell it to the next clueless customer that comes along.

Are they serious ?

Bullshit bingo

[hcdejong]

Why the hell does the blurb refer to the computer as a 'Stock Keeping Unit' [1]?

1: at least, that's what Google tells me 'SKU' means...

Re:Bullshit bingo

[hansamurai]

Because each product is assigned a "SKU" at the store level. I worked at Staples for a few years and each product had a six digit number associated with it, including computers. That number was Staple's SKU.

Re:Bullshit bingo

[Guysmiley777]

Because saying "system" or "model" or even "computer" doesn't sound business-y enough. "Computer" = Old and busted. "SKU" = Teh new hawtness.

Re:Bullshit bingo

[Greyfox]

The regular reviewer was out for the day and the review was actually done by the kid who works in the mailing room. SKU is all you ever hear about in the mailing room.

The Dell Death Knell for Alienware?

[kclittle]

[In some glass-walled corner office in Round Rock, TX...] "Oh, come on, just paint the box some bright color, put the 'Core 2 Duo' badge on it, then slap on an 'Alienware' label and no one will be the wiser."
Oh, well...

Should I tell him?

[hansamurai]

Wow, my friend just ordered one of these a few weeks ago, spent over $3,000 on it, Core 2 Duo and all. Ouch.

Re:Should I tell him?

[snuf23]

It's still a very fast computer. He just paid more for it than he would have from another vendor. That doesn't make it a bad computer, just overpriced.

So was the old one.

[hal2814]

The old Alienware PC was an overpriced underperformer. The only difference is that they are owned by Dell now so you can get worse customer service from them if such a thing is possible.

Re:So was the old one.

[ZaMoose]

No, see, it's not truly Dell support - all of their support ops sound as if they are Russian/Ukrainian/former Soviet Bloc instead of Indian, which means I spend my numerous support calls thinking "Mahst get Mooce and Sqvirrel!" instead of "Welcome to Kwik-E Mart.

It's an entertaining diversion, to be sure. The support still sucks, though.

Re:So was the old one.

[-noefordeg-]

I've never experienced bad support from Dell.

Their customer support, warrenty options and very stable computers/servers, are the reasons for why we (my company) has chosen Dell again and again.
It doesn't hurt that they are extremely cheap; you can actually haggle with them :p

Re:So was the old one.

[hal2814]

"are the reasons for why we (my company)" [emphasis mine]

For business support, I fully agree. Dell is up there with the best of them. The university I used to work for was mostly a Dell shop and their support was always top notch. It's too bad they can't extend the same level of support to their home users. Home user support is a nightmare.

Re:So was the old one.

[Anonymous Coward]

dell corporate purchaser support and home end-user support are different.

12 hours without failure?

[purpledinoz]

Why does Hexus give an award for not crashing after 12 hours? Shouldn't that be expected? I would expect that this would go at least a week without crashing. It's like giving a car a special award for not breaking down after a month.

Re:12 hours without failure?

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe it's a 'special' award for those with 'special' abilities.

/vertisement?

[Anonymous Coward]

urgh too many ads - my browser had a seizure :-(

the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[Colin Smith]

Could not care less. i.e. you care so little that it's impossible to care less.

Think about it for a second, it doesn't make any sense to say "could care less". By doing so you are saying you care enough that it is possible to care less.

The irony of this saying is that it must have come from the UK because we all get it right, it must have been picked up by someone who didn't understand the meaning and now the senseless version spreads across the US.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[Ansonmont]

I think the expression has evolved to encompass the meaning that, while technically, one could "care less," it is such a small difference that it isn't even worth the effort to imagine such a state. Just a thought.

On another off-topic, why do disgruntled and gruntled mean the same thing?
-A

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[johntash]

Aha! Yes. It bugs me when I hear people say that too. You aren't alone.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[digitalhermit]

Fat chance that people start using that phrase correctly. Or is that "slim chance"? Funny how phrases get turned around.. Like "bloody" for example. It supposedly arose from "By Our Lady" but somehow it's now about blood, the red kind. Speaking of blood, there's a Jamaican exclamation that sounds like "bloodclot". The suburban kids in my high school (USA born and raised) would go around saying when Jamaican music (dancehall reggae) was popular. At least until a real Jamaican AP put one in detention. "Bloodclot" is actually from "blood cloth" and a word for a used tampon. Not exactly the sort of thing to say in polite company.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[rk]

"I could care less" is sarcasm... like after reading your post I thought to myself "Another /. language lawyer. Great." :-P

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[Colin Smith]

I think the expression has evolved to encompass the meaning that, while technically, one could "care less," it is such a small difference that it isn't even worth the effort to imagine such a state. Just a thought.

Or, it's being repeated parrot fashion without thought to the real meaning of the words and was misheard by the person who initially began spreading the corrupted version across the US.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[matt328]

That's how you're opposed to say it, I could of told you that.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[Reziac]

I first heard "could care less" from Brits, probably 20 years ago. So don't blame US :)

Since then, "could care less" has become more common (at least among younger folk) than the more meaningful "couldn't care less".

Might have started as a mishearing by the younger generation (who often drop half-heard words from such phrases), or maybe as misinterpreted sarcasm ("I *could* care less" meaning "but in fact I don't care at all.")

To my ear, "could care less" implies that the speaker doesn't really think about what they're saying.

As to the nominal topic, I suspect Dell "couldn't care less" so long as they can sell overpriced Alienware products to rich kids who think owning one turns them into a 1337 g@/\/\3r.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[jcr]

I don't think that error is a US/UK thing. I remember hearing the phrase used correctly for my whole life. I didn't start hearing people getting it wrong until the late '70s.

-jcr

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[ravenshrike]

Or, given that I've always heard it said in an extremely sarcastic tone, it could just mean the opposite of what is being said. Maybe, just a SMALL possibility?

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[honkycat]

a real Jamaican access point?

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[nytmare]

I'll teach you to attempt grammar corrections!

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[WilliamSChips]

No, it's obviously American and therefore evil. That's the only possible answer because it is popular in the United States.

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[WhatDoIKnow]

How about, "Don't give a rat's ass?" Is that unambiguous enough?

:wq

Re:the correct saying is "*couldn't* care less"

[WuphonsReach]

Sidenote: I heard the phrase "I couldn't care less" on a BBC radio show from the mid-1950s (The Goon Show). So the phrase has been around for a while and doesn't seem to be a very recent invention.

Hey, you all ride Harleys, drive SUVs

[Colin Smith]

Overpriced underperformance is the American way. What are you complaining about?

Re:Hey, you all ride Harleys, drive SUVs

[955301]

No I don't. I drive a toyota corolla and ride a mountain bike. Stop listening to stereotypes. I don't suppose you have a subset of your country's population taking advantage of it and being wasteful do you? Squatters on a socialized healthcare system? Excessive and ridiculous taxing? train bombings?

I'll take getting stuck behind an SUV any day.

Re:Hey, you all ride Harleys, drive SUVs

[Anonymous Coward]

This is one of those posts which needs a +1, bitchslap rating! :)

Re:Hey, you all ride Harleys, drive SUVs

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You got served.

Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[Joe The Dragon]

company that has Power Cables for $48
It use to be out in the open but now they hide it under the Power Supply Selections.

To go from one 1gig to 2gigs is $250 that is just as bad as the mac pro ram price

Video Performance Optimizer $18 seems like stuff that you can set your self in the video drivers control panel.

$29 for the restore disks that should be free or at the cost of the disks.

$49 Automated Technical Support Request System there is a new dell ad showing off someing like that and they say it comes free with all new dell systems.

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[TheRaven64]

To go from one 1gig to 2gigs is $250 that is just as bad as the mac pro ram price

The Mac Pro costs $300 to go from 1GB to 2GB. From Crucial, equivalent RAM is $200 (don't forget, these are FB-DIMMs which are very expensive at the moment), so Apple is 'only' adding on 50%, which is far less than they usually overcharge on RAM. I am planning on getting a MBP when they finally release the Core 2 versions and it is currently cheaper to buy it with the stock RAM config and buy 2GB of RAM from Crucial for it (and just throw the Apple RAM in the bin or keep it as spare) than it is to buy the machine with 2GB. Apple want to charge $500 just for going from 512MB to 2GB, while Crucial only charge $250 for a pair of 1GB modules.

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[Korin43]

The memory could be more expensive than you're used to because it's faster/higher quality memory. Good memory can cost a lot more than cheap memory.

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[TellarHK]

Apple's RAM pricing has always been downright robbery, but yes, in the case of the Mac Pro it's not nearly as bad as it usually is considering that they use FB-DIMMs which still command a pretty hefty premium in general. I recently got one at my workplace, and my boss decided that one gig of RAM wouldnt' be enough, and since Apple claimed to only have the two-gig package in store (in Reno), we wound up getting it with three gigs total for another $700. Far more than I would have wanted to pay, let me tell you that.

But man, does that machine scream.

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[Joe The Dragon]

yet but you can buy 2 gigs of ddr 2 800 epp Dual Channel ram with SLI Ready Certification for the same price as you pay for alienware to add one gig. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTool s/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&CatId=2368

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[Anonymous Coward]

The ram wouldn't be bad if it was OCZ or Corsair CAS 3 PC6400, that stuff runs $200+/gb but runs DDR1066 at CAS 4 also. In my opinion, you need good ram in a high end setup, not the low/mid end crap Alienware has ALWAYS used. The power cord is just like anything you'd get for a home theater setup (monster cable anyone). I'm sure the "video performance optimizer" is something similar to Rivatuner that has been dumbed down for Alienware users, but hey... why not charge extra for it. I've always said that if you buy a gaming rig from a company, you are basically buying a $3k+ paperweight. I think the only constant exception to this is Falcon Northwest, but you are still spending at least $1k more than you have to.

Re:Big ripoff Power Cable for $48

[glesga_kiss]

Video Performance Optimizer $18 seems like stuff that you can set your self in the video drivers control panel.

Hmm, personally if I were buying a gaming optimised PC I'd expect this sort of tweak as standard. No one installs windows by hand in these outfits; they use disk images. The fact that they know there are opimizations possible and they aren't a part of their disk image is appauling. What exactly are you paying for with an outfit like Alienware? I thought that sort of thing was the point.

Nah

[emarkp]

They were overpriced before Dell acquired them. Their customer service is probably better now (since it hardly could have been worse).

Cheaper.

[Damastus the WizLiz]

I recently purchased a pc from http://www.ibuypower.com/ for less money then I would have payed building it myself and far cheaper then anything from Alienware. I dont think anyone needs to pay that much for a fancy case. anyone who wants a fancy case that bad should be able to make one.

No Mac Pro comparison?

[SuperKendall]

It seems fair game now to compare the very highest end PC with a Mac Pro also running Windows Games, it would have been nice to see that as a comparison point.

Re:No Mac Pro comparison?

[99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]

It seems fair game now to compare the very highest end PC with a Mac Pro also running Windows Games, it would have been nice to see that as a comparison point.

I suppose, but I doubt it is useful. Mac Pro's are designed as pro workstations, not gaming machines. This is mostly reflected in the graphics cards, which I suppose you can normalize if you're so inclined.

Re:No Mac Pro comparison?

[laffer1]

You can compare Mac Pros to dell precision workstations without a problem. High end PC != gamer rig in some circles. Its possible to use a workstation as a gamer rig with a few modifications but its the best gamer rig.

I wouldn't mind seeing more comparisons to Macs though. I want to replace my pcs with Macs provided I can dual boot them. (and no i don't mean windows)

Re:No Mac Pro comparison?

[snuf23]

Not really the same animal. The Mac Pro will kick the crap out of the Core 2 Duo in CPU benchmarks. An SLI graphics card setup will beat out the Mac Pro in most games as they are GPU limited rather than CPU. Some games (such as Half Life 2) are CPU limited due to the physics processing however.
Also I don't believe Apple has released the Windows drivers for the Mac Pro yet, so it might not be a good test.

Re:No Mac Pro comparison?

[ChildeRoland]

Macs have been able to dual boot Linux for YEARS.

Price/performance ratios

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok so Alienware is overpriced and you pay a lot for a fancy looking plastic case.

This is news why exactly - it has been that way since they first started basically? Heck I wouldn't be caught dead with one of their machines, as people around me would be able to tell I dont have an ounce of sense and I'm not economically sane.

Re:Price/performance ratios

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet people wear Prada. Different worlds, my friend.

Re:Price/performance ratios

[Millenniumman]

Fancy looking? They're some of the ugliest computer cases I have ever seen. Almost anything is better.

Custom aspirin pillz ?

[DrYak]

custom built is the way to go, not prebuilt crap

...and then custom synthetized aspirin pillz to cure the headache of trying to install a Microsoft-branded (Usually a "Ultimate pirated edition") OS on a "motherboard+BIOS+Fast DDR chip" hardware that's too much new for Windows XP to be compatible with ?

There is 1 single advantage that I found in buying pre-made crap :
Yes, even the "High-end special first introduction rebate !! $$$ !!" may contain outdated hardware, or cheap and limited hardware (hardware sensors lack near most of the popular pre-built brands).
But this old hardware is here, because the company took time to test it, is sure that there are no incompatibility and they could throw on it any installation (OS, bundeled-in softs, etc...)

Installing Windows XP on brand new 64bits Athlons used to be a real PITA back when those babies were new and friends and I started building systems around them. (By luck most of us friends happened to be both patient and able to do our work using linux distros in the meanwhile). I'm not sure, once the new "Next generation" of hardware arises, that we won't see similar difficulties.

So even if mounting a new system is getting very easy those days (Plug'n'Play got rid of arcane jumper settings, SATA removed the necessity to perform voodoo magic to get all SCSI devices to work together, and RAM is now sold pre-matched and pre-overclocked so it's possible to buy with less prior readings, noisy but sufficent cooling is bundled with most hardware) and could almost be done by a (motivated) Joe-Sixpack, mounting your system your-self is still ridden with the complexity of geting the software play nice with the hardware, chasing BIOS and Driver update, trying to get the installation work in the first place, BEFORE those drivers could be injected into the system, and/or using in the meanwhile an OS that installs more resiliently but that isn't the one preferred by the average Joe 6-pack.

In the meanwhile, most /.ers are happy running cluster-compiled versions of their own-made "MyBSD" operating system on their custom built systems (using a lot of blue leds, some duct tape, and optionnally legos and meccanos and the mandatory fish tank to cool it down. It's not real hardware without those, only expensive toys) ...

Re:Custom aspirin pillz ?

[joshetc]

When you buy a motherboard, you get this thing called a "driver cd". After you install windows you put the CD in and it installs the drivers for your hardware. I've installed pre-Athlon64 copies of WinXP and Win2k on my Athlon 64 x2 rig with no issue at all using this cd. Try it.

Re:Custom aspirin pillz ?

[lazarusdishwasher]

I just bought a asus a8n32-sli deluxe on 8/01/06 and have failed at my atempts to install XP. I was able to install Win2k, kubuntu, and gentoo. Can you explain how the "driver cd" will help if the XP installer cd refuses to run?

Re:Custom aspirin pillz ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason you had trouble with 64-bit Athlons is because you are either illiterate, idiotic, or intentionally ignorant.

Those Athlons worked perfectly fine with the 32-bit version of Windows. The 64-bit version is still plagued by inadequate driver support. If you were unaware of the limitations--specifically that you couldn't run a 64-bit OS on the hardware yet--that is a deficiency on your part rather than a problem with the hardware or the build-it-yourself hobby.

Re:Custom aspirin pillz ?

[joshetc]

After you install windows

If you really need help though you'll need to explain the problem a bit more than it failing.

Re:Custom aspirin pillz ?

[lazarusdishwasher]

If you ask google it says that it is an issue with the acpi and windows and usb. I was able to install windows 2000 without problems, vista as well. Google told me there was a problem with acpi and usb that would give the xp installer problems. Last night I was able to get xp to install after enableing legacy stuff in the bios and not using my usb mouse.

You stated that the driver disc helps after you install windows, and you are correct on that; However, you responded to a someone that said installing windows was a PITA by saying the driver disc would help after the installation which is no use if the problem is getting xp to install

Do a lot of rich people do this?

[antdude]

I haven't seen any of rich people I met with this Alienware brand. Not even notebooks/laptops. I have seen a lot of Dell and Apple including high end models. How about the rest of you?

Re:Do a lot of rich people do this?

[Don853]

A former roommate of mine (from a pretty well off family) bought a Alienware computer - but after two DOA motherboards and a few dozen angry calls to tech support, he gave up and got a Dell. This was 5 or 6 years ago - I don't know if they've improved much since then.

I also had a CS professor who had an Alienware laptop - his specialty was AI in games, so it was a pretty high end model and seemed to suit him well.

Neither of these were people you'd really call "rich", but they were upper-middle class anyway, and those are the only two Alienwares I've every actually seen people buy.

Re:Do a lot of rich people do this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some idiots at my work got a few of them on the corporate budget. They are absolute pieces of junk.

I Was So Shocked...

[ackthpt]

Alienware isn't about the "fastest". True, they have fast systems, but it's more about the 'bling' factor.
They're target market is upper middle class, specifically the middle age men who like to game and have disposable income and the kids with rich parents.

I'm building a PC for a friend and we went to pick out a cabinet. For my money I picked out a Lian Li cabinet years ago, black anodised aluminium, modular with a window in the side (which I could take or leave) It's a peach for setting up, getting into quickly, etc. I was practical with my choice and so is my friend. Something which does the job and isn't ostentatious.

Gawd...

The cabinets you can get at the stores these days are BLING! The Dragon was laughable, there were a few others which looked like some Transformers theme and of course some pink outfit which would fit right in with My Little Pony figures all around it.

We managed to find a fairly decent modular aluminium cabinet, but we both left laughing at the stuff people were getting. One was buying a Dragon cabinet at Fry's when we left. I guess the people who make those things are laughing all the way to the bank. Funny stuff.

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[thePowerOfGrayskull]

which would fit right in with My Little Pony figures all around it.

OMG PONIEZ!!!!!!1!!1

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[TellarHK]

I have no idea who it is that buys some of those horribly tacky cases you see at Fry's, CompUSA, Newegg, you-name-it. Cases with lots of glowy bits, and lots of windows? Sure, I'll admit I've had a couple of those "bling" cases. But the ones that look like transformers/dragons/aliens/gobots/demons just plain look horrible and usually have a build quality to match.

My last case was a plastic-and-tin knockoff of the Powermac G5 case, which I liked because it had a subtle appearance and had tons of venting. When I realized all the venting was actually causing my heat problems after an Athlon64 upgrade, I went out and got a case that's practically the best design I've yet to see - the Antec P180. If you're looking for a bland case, this is it. But at the same time, if you're looking for cool and quiet? This is -definitely- it.

I bet those blinged-out dragons/demons/etc sound like wind tunnels.

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[LWATCDR]

I guess Bling==tacky.
I admit that when I saw the first casemods that had a window in them I thought they where interesting. The problem is the thing that made them interesting was the work that someone did to create a custom case. Now that you can buy them off the shelf they are tacky.
To me the ideal case would be.
Small, almost silent, well made, with enough room for two optical drives and easy access to the USB ports on the front of the case.
Now the people that actually create their own custom cases get points for creativity. People that buy a case with a dragon, transfromer, and or window... Well if they like them that fine. But it is kind of like people that buy a custom motorcycle. What makes them cool is building them yourself.

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[BigCheese]

I've been a fan of the Antec cases too. Easy to work in, very few screws to work with inside the case. The latter is a big thing for me since I tend to drop screws into the case all the time. Antec seems to avoid a lot of the ugly colors too without being black or beige (black is the new beige).

The Lian Li cases are very nice but I find them overpriced for what you get.

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[WuphonsReach]

The older Antec p160 case was nicer to work with then the p180b. The problem with the older p160 is (a) motherboard tray that limits you to exactly ATX spec boards and no larger (b) only so-so cooling in the front drive bays even with a dedicated intake fan. Still, the older p160 is a dream to get the side panel off and swap out a drive.

The p180/p180b does a nicer job of cooling. But replacing drives in the lower 2 drive bays involving disconnecting multiple drives. I don't care for the blowhole on top though and feel that it invites disaster (spill a drink on top of that case and it goes directly to the motherboard). Still, I can pack 10 drives into one of these units (using a Coolermaster 4:3 bay cooler up top). The other issue with the blowhole is that it allows CPU fan noise to exit directly out of the case and almost a straight shot towards the user. (I have a dual-Opteron setup in mine.)

For normal builds, I prefer the Antec Sonata II or the Antec Overture II. The Minuet 300 is also an interesting size but with a few more tradeoffs. The Sonata's are a god fit for a gamer case (while being quiet), while the Overtures are more about small size.

The ThermalTake Armor case with the solid side panel is also interesting. Figure I can get 15 drives into that case along with a heavy-duty motherboard and PSU. Three internal drives and 12 drives in hot-swap chassis up front.

I have at least one of every case I've mentioned. The Sonata and p160 cases I have multiple of because I like them so much.

Re:I Was So Shocked...

[Anonymous Coward]

Antec Sonata II is pretty quiet.

The Antec p180b offers more drive bay space and better heat management, but you may not find it as quiet as the Sonata II case due to the upper blowhole on top of the p180b case.

The older p160 also uses 120mm fans.

Not that overpriced

[denoir]

I more or less just finished building my new PC and it is fairly similar to the Alienware as components go:

X6800 CPU

4 GB 800 MHz Corsair Memory

Asus P5b Deluxe Mobo

Asus Nvidia 7900GTX

1x150 GB WD Raptor

4x320 GB Seagate 7200.10 (RAID-0)

SB XFi E.Pro

It is stronger on some points (memory and disk) and weaker on some other mobo, gfx, but overall of comparable performance.

The Alienware costs according to the article £3000 = 4400 EUR . My home-built rig set me back roughly 3800 EUR = £2600. So they are a bit more expensive, but not much - and it's supposed to be a luxury computer - an indulgence for the rich and the delinquent ;)

And no, before you ask me, the rig is not intended for gaming, but is a heavy duty computation workstation whose work will to 90% consist of mulitplying very large matrices (while training neural networks). And most importantly, no I didn't pay for it, my company did ;)

Re:Not that overpriced

[tommasz]

In other words, Alienware charges £400 for a fancy case and craptastic support. My idea of "luxury" also includes value for money, and since I also consider that performance is a major element of value for any computer, Alienware fails on both counts.

Re:Not that overpriced

[denoir]

Well, you get a working computer out of the box and you get a warranty on the thing. When you build one yourself, you are completely on your own - there's no guarantee that the hardware you choose will work well together etc.

As for luxury, I would say that per definition it is something that doesn't give you value for money. That's what makes it luxury. You can look at luxury cars as an example of terrible value for money. Buy a Ferrari and it will most likely break down twice a week. Cost efficiency and even practicality go very much against the idea of luxury which is one of an unnecessary indulgence.

Re:Not that overpriced

[Lonewolf666]

So your company paid for a Asus Nvidia 7900GTX ??
You have either a quite generous or a quite clueless boss. Business workstations usually don't require high end graphics gards, unless you do CAD.

Re:Not that overpriced

[Ihlosi]

And no, before you ask me, the rig is not intended for gaming, but is a heavy duty computation workstation whose work will to 90% consist of mulitplying very large matrices (while training neural networks). And most importantly, no I didn't pay for it, my company did ;)

Either you're using that graphics card for the computation, or someone in your company is clueless. If all the work is done by the processor, they should have bought you a real workstation (two or more dual-core processors, no fancy graphics card) instead of something that is essentially a fancy desktop computer.

Re:Not that overpriced

[denoir]

The graphics card can be used for computation - something we're not doing currently, but are planning to test. As for several dual-cores, it wouldn't do much good as the computations are sequential and can't easily be parallelized.

And I said that the rig was not intended for gaming - that doesn't mean it actually never will be used for that. As for the clueless person signing the purchase, that would be me (being the co-founder/VP). Unaccountability is a beautiful thing ;-)

Re:Not that overpriced

[Ihlosi]

The graphics card can be used for computation - something we're not doing currently, but are planning to test. As for several dual-cores, it wouldn't do much good as the computations are sequential and can't easily be parallelized.

Multiplying matrices is a prime candidate for parallelization.

Inspiron 600m & Bluetooth

[Anonymous Coward]

Have a 600m which developed the Bluetooth connectivity issue (pins loosing touch with the connector).
Was out of warranty, and I asked online text-support whether Dell has a solution for it, and the answer was that I need to call for support to "anazlyze" the situation, only that would cost me $200 to figure out if I have a problem.

Yeah, like I'm gonna blow $200 for them to figure out whether there is a problem. All I asked was whether they can take care of the problem, and I got that BS.

BTW, I know I can use an external Bluetooth, but that is not as convenient as an internal one.

Dude...

[Omeger]

Just get a Dell. No wait- *KABOOM!!!!*

Re:Dude...

[onedobb]

Ohhh, wait it actually is.

Re:AMD is total shit now

[Comatosis]

Just grow up, will ya? Guess not.

Rehashed Sager?

[955301]

But I thought Alienware has always been repackaged overpriced Sager notebooks? The just slap a coat of paint on, then charge another $400 for their "value added" service.

For example: http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/AMD_systems.htm l
This system is $3,229.00 before customization

The equivalent Alienware notebook w/ a different paint scheme:
$4,499.00

Sweet Jesus! I'm in the wrong business if I can repaint a notebook and sell it for an additional $1270 bucks!

Okay, lemme hold my excitement and see the specs for the difference:
Windows Home edition vs media edition
Whoa! The video actually has *less* memory than the Sager!
80G vs 120G hard disk
And you're missing a bluetooth adapter that the sager has too!

So you actually get LESS machine for $1270 more! Balancing out the hard disk only makes the Sager $3304, or $75 more expensive.

Okay, I'm in! Anyone interested in buying this notebook, send me your money and I'll sell you a custom airbushed *cough* notebook. Free shipping!

Re:Rehashed Sager?

[dilvish_the_damned]

I have purchased many sagers, we used to run them exclusively at our shop. I also just retired a Sager 3.06 Ghz with 1GB Ram in favor of my new Alienware. I have to say, though my experience with Alienware is still a little limited, I found that the case on a laptop is almost critically important. The keyboard, higher quality display, better ventalation, much better hinge all add up to a far better machine running at the same speed.
Also, my hands are somewhat acidic it seems, all the sagers eventually started to discolor under my palms and the last one, which I spent about $3500 on, the paint seperated from the plastic in little flakes it it gave me blisters from some chemical reaction.

The alienware just feels tough and tight, which the sagers never did. I am convinced its worth the money.

Re:Rehashed Sager?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, what part of Sager makes the Alienware laptops are you not grasping? As in they are made in the same factory by the same people, side by side. Alienware is Sager, or vice versa. Glad you can tell the difference though, I bet you're into audiophile shit as well...

Re:Rehashed Sager?

[Anonymous Coward]

The casing is different. THey're made at the same factory, but there's more of a difference than having an "Alienware" sticker on one laptop, and "Sager" on the other.

Don't set the bar so high

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I disagree with the outcome, but does Hexus even have a credible reputation for such reviews? I mean who are they from Joe with an opinion anyways?

I think it is, or should be common knowledge that Alienware is just what someone else said, PCs for those with disposable income that want a "bling" pc. With a little bit of research you can build a better performing PC for cheaper.

Misuse of SKU term

[Animats]

Yeah, that's wierd. Especially since "SKU" implies that all products with the same SKU are identical; the blue ones and the purple ones will have a different SKU. The reviewers usually don't review one of each color. That's the whole point of Stock Keeping Units; they're used for inventory management. For a semicustom product like the Alienware machines, or for a review, it's not really the right term.

In manufacturing, the terms "part" and "part number" are used. A "part" is an instance of a "part number". All parts with the same part number must be effectively identical. Manufacturing people say things like "That product has 154 parts but only 24 part numbers", meaning that only 24 different kinds of part are needed to make it.

Bling Bling Nerd Spinners

[gelfling]

Yeah those gold tipped cables that cost $60 gonna make the neon tubes in the cabinet 1.04% faster than anything you or yo momma can build.

It doesn't work as sarcasm either.

[Colin Smith]

It doesn't make sense as sarcasm either, as a statement it has no direction. Sarcasm is used on statements with a emphasis of direction, like "Another /. language lawyer. Great.". The "Great" has a definite positive emphasis which can be interpreted sarcastically, "I could care less" has no emphasis, it has nothing. A sarcastic version of "I couldn't care less" would be "I couldn't care more". "I could care less" is just bleh.

New Alienware PC an Overpriced Underperformer

[XnavxeMiyyep]

Wait, this is considered news now?

Bigger and better

[Colin Smith]

Yeah, instead of some health tourism, you have either insanely high medical insurance or none at all, you have an unimaginably large national debt instead of high taxation and since you mention it, you managed to allow terrorists to take out a couple of buildings as opposed to sneaking on to some trains.

Yup, you don't half do things bigger and better over there. Good luck behind that SUV.

Re:Bigger and better

[timster]

US public debt is too large, but hardly unimaginably so. Nations with an even higher ratio of debt to GDP include France, Germany, especially Italy, and especially^2 Japan. The UK is much better, so I suppose it's no surprise that they don't want to join the Eurozone.

News may not have made it across the pond, but the SUV fad is over (resulting in financial catastrophe at the companies that invented the fad in the first place).

Re:Bigger and better

[955301]

Off once more, but I have to say "health tourism" is definately a cheerful way of looking at a permanent side effect to your system. So while health spending accounts and direct negotiating drive prices downward, yours will be entrenched in a permanent government tax-grab.

The little know secret about US healthcare is that if you walk into a US hospital they *will* treat you regardless of whether or not you have money. What's more, if you pay for your own services you can negotiate the price to what you would reasonably expect or settle the larger debts for 50% or below. It just requires a backbone.

And I suppose the national debt would keep me up at night if it were my own, but as the name suggests, it belongs to the nation. Again, another misunderstanding you have - The national debt is a credit line extended to US corporations backed by the rest of the world. The government extends money to companies and keeps consumer taxes low which causes spending towards the corporations. The backers get a healthy return on their money. If the US aggressively paid off the national debt and got it back to zero an excessive amount of potential would be pulled from the world market. For what? not much. Almost immediately re-leveraging would occur to put that energy back in play. So you can either store your money on the shelf in pint sized containers and marvel at your pile or keep it in the system and use it at the expense of your comfort. It's $27000 per person. That's less than the SUV in front of me, so don't let the big numbers scare you so.

And in case anyone has missed the fact that you live in the UK, I'll emphasize that point now and remind you that England is the one who turned over the Palestine territories to Israeli colonists, screwed up the national borders between India and Pakistan and is not even remotely capable of the retaliation and impact the US has had on the region from which the terrorists came.

But as far as UK endeavors go - Whatever happened to that little Mars thing you had there for a bit - The Beagle 2 or something? Did you ever get it to bark?

Re:Bigger and better

[Colin Smith]

while health spending accounts and direct negotiating drive prices downward

Really. American health insurance premiums are decreasing? Hmmm I guess all the double digit increases reported in these articles are wrong then.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/chcm090904nr.cfm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-03-16-hea lthcost_x.htm
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Given your inaccuracy so far, should I even bother reading the rest of your post?

Again, another misunderstanding you have - The national debt is a credit line extended to US corporations backed by the rest of the world.

Actually it's backed by the oil producing countries and your other suppliers mostly in asia. Their continued purchasing of US debt is dependant on the dollar maintaining it's value, after all they want their investment back. I don't know if you noticed, but the dollar is sliding and the oil producers and suppliers are quietly switching away from holding dollars and US debt. Guess what, all that spending means higher inflation, just another form of taxation, you will have noticed it climbing, you'd better talk to your boss about a salary increase.

e.g.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/m oney/2006/07/04/cngold04.xml
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2006/01/09/AR2006010901042_pf.html

Maybe your government should spend money a bit more wisely on intelligence rather than retaliating against empty tents from 40,000 feet. Maybe they would be able to actually catch the terrorists. It's that over priced and under performing American way thing again. How much are you spending on the War on Terror? How many terrorists have you caught and brought to justice? Would that be 20 billion dollars per terrorist? More? Or have you wised up yet and realised the Iraq war has nothing to do with terrorism.

Re:Bigger and better

[955301]

No, no no. You're thinking insurance premiums = health care costs, I'm saying health spending accounts and actual health costs. I.e., self insured with a non-taxable account where you queue up your funds for health related expenditures. You're following the US media for your info - big mistake. When the masses transition from one system to another, the old system loses its economics of scale and the media like to say "ooooh, look! disaster!". Health insurance premiums are increasing because the healthy people are getting out of the pool or generally decreasing in numbers (older population) - I just stopped w/ insurance last year. The media wants to tout the doom and gloom so they follow the "increasing costs of healthcare" by ignoring the self insured who are seeing a *decrease* in costs because they don't have the fatso's as baggage. You didn't forget about your SUV driving stereotypical fat American already, did you? My actual health costs last year cost $274 and added $1094 to my spending account, tax free that would have gone to an insurance company.

Next up, I don't have a boss - I own my own software company. Let's hear it for small business America, Where you can write off the cost of your car maintenance, gas and trips to the UK!

And I'm curious about your logic - you want me to be worried about the deficit in DOLLARS, but the DOLLAR is decreasing in value - So we can buy our way out of the debt with our own dollars once the value is diminished, thereby what? Increasing the value of the dollar because the US deficit just decreased? And then the Americanized-Mexican immigrant population becomes competitive to foreign labour and voila! Isolationism comes back in vogue.

And again with the popularized Media! Moving target William, try to keep up.

Do you really think the US government is "spending" money on Terrorism(r)? Again, the media likes to tout the big numbers. But the big secret is that Haliburton and the other government contractors are a ruse. If a group of people spends gargantuan amounts of money on a hopeless cause by paying themselves, how much money have they lost really? Have you noticed that American defense contractors profits went through the roof!? And those people who work for them turned around and bought iPods(r) for hundreds of dollars from a US corporation that bought the parts for a fraction of that? Only a sliver of the money is actually leaving the country! The media will help on this one - listen to the complaints about money pledged to Iraq and Afghanistan rebuilding that ISN'T GETTING THERE! And with a country like the US that's borderline Fascist, money in the government and money in the corporations is not any different. They just give it back and forth.

Let's tally up the cost again, shall we? One terrorist = $20.000.000.000 in play. A few billion to the Department of Homeland Security to spend on what? American airports, American emergency services & American cities. Several billion goes to Defense contractors for planes, trucks and bombs to invade a country. A few million go back to politicians from the contractors to keep the pump flowin. A few billion go to shore up the insurance companies and airline industry. Ahah! Problem! We need fuel to keep this shell game up! Whew! That was close - turns out we invaded a OIL RICH country and another to secure a pipeline deal - not much of a problem after all. The highest cost to any of these companies is the labor. The predominantly American contractor labor.

Of course it doesn't have anything to do with terrorism. If we were stupid enough to just act directly on the true evils in the world, it would cost us a fortune! And that doesn't bode well for that SUV or my health spending account.

So, how'd we do? Are you caught up yet?

Overpriced underperformance my ass.

Re:Bigger and better

[malz8137]

"But as far as UK endeavors go - Whatever happened to that little Mars thing you had there for a bit - The Beagle 2 or something? Did you ever get it to bark?" In 2003, the beagle Mars Rover was launched. We were told that it crashed. It's final transmission was classified top secret. It was the only warning we were given. Now the dueling alien races of the Autobots and the Decepticons have brought their battle to Earth and the future of humankind is hanging in the balance. It's their war, but it's our world!. :P Now play nicely...

dell with linux

[rucs_hack]

I've had four 1.8Ghz dell boxen running as an OpenMosix cluster (debian) for over a year now, with no problems whatsoever. Before that they had been windows workstations for two years, and hadn't broken down.
I also have a Dell laptop, six years old and still going strong.

Most of the time I build my own machines, but I have never had problems with Dell hardware when I've used it.

Personally I think most people who dislike Dell are just Mooing with the rest of the herd, unwilling to find out what the real situation is.

Re:dell with linux

[fotbr]

1) I've had issues with Dell's customer support being rather crappy.

2) I think most of their cheap stuff (the $300 complete computer deals, etc) is junk and their good stuff is somewhat overpriced because of the Dell name. Based on experiences with various relatives' machines.

3) Alienware always seemed like a joke to me. Overpriced for the hardware. Ugly cases*

4) Dell bought Alienware.

Combine Dell's slightly overpricing with Alienware's ugly-cases and even worse overpricing, and you have the reasoning for my comment.

*I have no use for ANY casemodding. I *LIKE* the simple beige or black box. Windows, lights, etc are all useless when the machine is under a desk or in a closet.

Same thing for less

[Cope57]

A few years ago, I went to the Alienware website and customized my own PC for their price of $2,300.
I did not go to the checkout though.
Instead, I went to TigerDirect and purchased the same components that I previously configured at Alienware.
I received the components, and built my PC.
So what if the case does not have a Alienware logo on it.
I saved $1,400 for basicaly the same machine.
Hard to believe, but a $2,300 Alienware PC only cost me $900 for me to build it myself.
No logo, great performance, I am happy.
More individuals should build their own.
It is not that hard. It comes with instructions.
If you can build anything with step by step instructions, you can build a PC.
I have bulit about 7 PC's for friends, and I rarely look at instructions now. It is that simple.
So if you realy want the Alienware case, and have it all put together for you.
If you are out for the *bling* as mentioned earlier, go ahead, enjoy your Alienware PC.

Re:Same thing for less

[Jerry Rivers]

I can't think of any IT departments that build PCs. Most also want a guarantee and support with the purchases.

Re:Same thing for less

[pavon]

I can't think of any IT departments that buy Alienware PCs. The only people that buy them are gamers, most of whom are capable of using a screwdriver, so building your own is a better way to go. In fact, the most time-consuming part of building your own machine is figuring out what components are fast and reliable at the moment, so getting the specs from a company that does guarantee their machines is a really good suggestion.

For a low-end desktop, a home-built machine can't beat Dell's prices. In the IT world, the labor costs of building your own far outshadow the savings in purchase price. But for a hot-rod gaming machine, building your own is still the way to go.

Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age man

[Moraelin]

Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age man with disposable income... oh, gawd, these bling cases make me want to puke. So I'm not even convinced that they're targetting people like me.

I mean, seriously, if I want to willy-wave, I might go buy something expensive and over-performing. Like, I don't know, I might get a second X1900 XTX and run them in SLI... err... CrossFire (TM) for benchmark sake. But it seems utterly stupid to buy a case which just _looks_ high-tech and funky, but doesn't actually _do_ anything for the performance.

It's, if you will, the computer-equivalent of Rice Boys and their sheet iron wings and fake disk brakes. Something that's just a sad attempt at _looking_ fast, without actually being so.

And just like those, I'm drawing blanks as to who their target market actually is. _Maybe_ kids, ok. But middle-aged men? I can't imagine many upper-middle-class middle-aged men actually wanting such a monstrosity in their room. We're talking people who, precisely because they have the disposable income, can have a nicely decorated home. Would anyone actually want a case looking like a cross between a funky toy and a bad acid trip next to their expensive furniture? Why?

Plus, as with those cars, if you actually _are_ rich, you can just buy the real thing. People with lots of disposable income just buy an expensive car. They don't just take the cheapest Honda and tack a wing and fake disk brakes on it. When you can actually afford a fast car, you don't go and try to make an el-cheapo one just _look_ fast. And in this case, if I can just build a computer that actually _is_ fast and high-tech, I don't need a sad clown case that only _looks_ "high-tech".

So who is the real target for these cases? People with a really bad case of mid-life crisis, maybe? Or what?

One thing they add

[DoctaWatson]

I'd assume that Alienware also provides at least some iota of customer support.

With Sager you're pretty much on your own, getting tech support from community message boards and such.

So it's probably not worth $400-1250, but it's more than just a spiffy coat of paint.

Re:One thing they add

[955301]

That message board and a Sager rep in Florida got linux running on my system and pinned down a video driver for the embedded video camera. I've replaced a hard disk w/ no hassles and a quick turn around. After seeing the complaints about the Alienware support, my experience is that Sager's support more than breaks even.

love my area-51

[Hohlraum]

I bought an area-51 a few years ago and its hands down the best computer I've ever owned. I've probably built around 2 dozen computers in my lifetime (handful for myself and the rest for friends and family) and this machine's stability is just completely amazing. I've never had a single problem with it or had to use the warranty while it still had one.

The problem with modern hardware is that everyone is trying to make the highest performing components for a computer. What they aren't doing is making sure there components play nice with other components. With the alienware stuff you are paying for testing, styling and insurance that the system is made with the newest/best quality parts and that they all play nicely.

Will I buy another one? Probably not cuz their prices are just insane now days. Back when I bought mine I priced the same components and I was only paying a few hundred dollars as a premium. It was totally worth the money after the fiasco I had on the home system I built a year earlier. So don't jump to bash Alienware so quickly unless you know what you are talking about.

Re:love my area-51

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wrote an article about my HORRIBLE experience with Alien'where?' last week. Looks like I dodged a bullet. You can check it out here: http://azmd.net/blog.php?id=50

Re:love my area-51

[Hohlraum]

read your blog post. yikes dude, sounds like the company has taken a shit in the last few years since I got mine. :(

Re:love my area-51

[NoMaster]

The problem with modern hardware is that everyone is trying to make the highest performing components for a computer. What they aren't doing is making sure there components play nice with other components.

No, it's long been that way. You're just probably too young to remember things like Diamond video cards, early Maxtor hard drives, etc.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Hoi Polloi]

The mid to upper-middle class guys I know who would know enough about computers to care about what was in an Alienware PC in the first place usually are techie enough to want to build thier own systems. I spent a good chunk of change researching and buying just behind the bleeding edge components to make a machine that should be my pride and joy for a good number of years. I even made sure it looked good (classic black and simple). To use your car analogy I'd be a car enthousiast who make his own custom hot-rod car instead of buying one off the lot.

Cooling

[ackthpt]

When I realized all the venting was actually causing my heat problems after an Athlon64 upgrade, I went out and got a case that's practically the best design I've yet to see - the Antec P180. If you're looking for a bland case, this is it. But at the same time, if you're looking for cool and quiet? This is -definitely- it.

Proper venting was one of the primary reasons we steered away from a lot of the design on the shelves. More fans and holes != better ventilation. My Lian Li cabinet has a simple approach: Air comes in the front, exits the back. Some of these cases have air going every which way, which defeats the purpose of effective cooling. Air could come in and go right out without accomplishing anything, while something off to the side cooks. A lot of these things are sucker bait, there's no doubt about it.

Re:Cooling

[cswiger2005]

Seconded. Lian-li makes very nice aluminum cases which can be entirely disassembled by hand using the thumbscrews (also used for the PCI/AGP/PCIe/etc slots), they've got a solid ventilation pattern (usually two intake fans in the lower front blowing across a removable bay which'll hold 1-4 hard drives, and a rear exhauster fan), and as a bonus, their black models have a look which reminds me of NeXT hardware (which also used anodized black paint on aluminum).

Having more intakes than outtakes tends to give the case positive pressurization compared to the ambient room, which means that they don't tend to accumulate dust inside. The front intake fans have a removable, washable dust filter.

Re:Cooling

[StikyPad]

The cases may have positive pressure compared to the room (which I doubt since it's not even close to airtight.. maybe a couple millibar at best), but as long as the air flow is the same as [given case], it still has the same potential to accumulate dust. It may not seep in from the cracks, but unless the air flowing through is less than some other setup, the dust will still get in at the same rate.

Re:Cooling

[cswiger2005]

Of course the case isn't airtight. That's the problem-- having negative partial case pressure relative to ambient (by having fewer intake fans than outtake fans [modulo fan size, speed, etc]) tends to pull dust inside through all of these cracks, notably including any CD-ROM/DVD-ROM/floppy drive you might happen to have. If you have more intake fans (or airflow volume due to running the intakes faster or whatnot), the dust will be sucked in via them, and can be caught using a removable/cleanable intake filter; the rest of the case & your CD/DVD drive will remain pretty much dust-free, significantly better than the other way.

Re:Cooling

[47F0]

"a look which reminds me of NeXT hardware (which also used anodized black paint on aluminum)"

Except that the NeXT boxes were magnesium - and anodizing isn't paint. But I do like my Lian-li ;-)

Re:Cooling

[cswiger2005]

You're right, of course, that the NeXT boxes were magnesium.

There are several procedures for anodizing metal involving various levels of current and a dye used like paint (only mixed into an acid solution in the anodizing tank, then you apply current to have the dye react with the surface of the metal and form a thin, very hard layer). I suppose the process has more in common with the chemical reaction of a metal primer than it does with classic oil-based or latex paint...

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

I do know what you're getting at but I do want to defend the "mod scene." There are some who will buy those tacky super bling cases, and there are some who will buy your standard beige tower, and ofcourse there are some who take a middle road. I can't speak for everyone in the "mod scene" but I personally enjoy building something that is unique, I would never buy a generic Dell. I like to bring my case to a LAN tourney and have people remember me because I'm "that guy with the yellow case," or have people bring their friends/families from across the room just to look at my case.

Meanwhile the guy next to me might have the most generic looking PC case, but he's decided to put some really nice hardware in his PC. This is the kind of guy who can draw crowds around his monitor just to see the top-notch graphics in game X. It's all a matter of personal taste (or lack thereof:) and some of us derive great fun out of choosing each and every piece in our PC, recabling the wires and maxing out the airflow. Some of us like to build the most silent PC possible.

You could draw parallels in the car racing/modding scene too. There are drivers who put all their money on aestetics and make the gawdiest Civic in the city, and there are some who blow all their money on their engines, exhaust, and intake. I guess what I'm really trying to say is not to bash us all based entirely on one end of the spectrum. To answer your question, I'd say the target is anyone who enjoys to build/mod PC's as a hobby. In one of the game community forums I frequent we've got kids who are 14-15, and guys who are 30-35 and everyone in between. No one judges them on who they are, just on what they do. Hell they could all be lying about their ages, but it doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not you do something you enjoy, and whether or not you want to meet people who enjoy the same things. (but it matters if you're a creepy child molestor, we don't serve your kind here.)

It's a Dell.

[Dogun]

You honestly can't even tell what parts you're getting these days. Your videocard could be using crappy RAM, you don't know the CAS timings on your memory, your motherboard probably isn't all that solid.

In the end, you're buying a dell nowadays.

Just buy your parts separately and assemble yourself. Much more satisfying that way, anyhow.

Funny...

[Belial6]

When I bought an Alienware 4 years ago, I thought the hardware was top notch, but the service was beyond crappy. I was pretty convinced that there shipping department was being run by somebodies nephew.

Re:Funny...

[monsted]

Well, most people are somebodies nephew :)

(Uhm, unless they're nieces.)

Re:Funny...

[Voltageaav]

Or their parents were only children....

it comes with a floppy drive?

[fribhey]

can someone please explain to me why it comes with a floppy drive?

Re:it comes with a floppy drive?

[snuf23]

I tried to stop buying floppy drives in computers for the office. The very first one I put on a users desk led to a support call about "where is the floppy drive?" I guess some people still use them.

Re:You can get cheaper Dell's

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to their Outlet part. I buy Outlet Pc's for myself and I recommend them to others. Usually all the bells and whistles, and dirt cheap on the price.

SKUs ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The writer may feel like a retail bad-ass using retailer terms like "SKUs" but meanwhile joe public doesn't know what that means.

its a dell

[tehsecksee]

Not only are you spending to much money for a not so cool system, If you pay more for cooler things in that not so cool system like a sweet mobo or cooling system it's all proprietary :( I wouldn't give an alienware a second chance.

n00b computer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone with a decent knowledge of computers, who can speak for themselves about computers, should be able to see that instead of buying an Alienware he can go build a better computer for the same money and if he can find the right case, have it look just as nice, if not better. (Not hard to beat something that looks like it was a Halloween decoration piece reject.) So would it be safe to say that an Alienware is a rich, spoiled, n00bs computer? Sure it has the newest stuff, but you can too, if you start from scratch at Newegg, and it costs waay less. Instead of paying the extra several hundred dollars on looks and name, why wouldn't one want to get a better video card, more ram, more hard drive space, games to play, or even a nice keyboard and mouse. I'd rather be able to say, "My computer can run everything at full settings with a better FPS than yours can" than "LOLZ MY COMPUTER IS ALIENWAREZ DUDEZ! I SOLD MY CAR TO GET IT LOLZ." I wonder what kinda tools buy Alienwares anyways. I'd like to talk to one of them face to face.

ObFanBoyComment

[MattW]

When I bought a beefy gaming box in April of 2005, I started with Alienware. Then I looked at VoodooPC. Then I went to the "money is no object" PC mag reviews, and was comparing good looking choices, and finally found, called, and settled on OverdrivePC. The thing that made me a fan boy was, in my excitement, I was specing out top-of-the-line everything. The guy I talked to actually asked what I was using it for, and talked me out of the latest-and-greatest processor in favor of one one step down, but more overclocked, since they were getting a lot more overclocking out of the Athlon 3200 and 3500s than the FX series. Since THEY did the overclocking, it was still supported. When I've needed tech support, it's been excellent. I'm not quite as busy now as I was then, so I might build-rather-than-buy, since I have the tech knowhow for it... but if I did have to buy again, I'd probably patronize them again if they were still price competitive. (And back then, the reviews had them coming in #1 in showdowns performance wise, but priced at the bottom end vs competitive machines; a very nice combo). I know they've been growing, but I was pretty darn happy.

I know a lot of people who have bought Alienware, because they wanted a kickass PC, had money to burn, and didn't know how to evaluate offerings themselves. Alienware has a very strong brand name, now, though, and I think you pay a premium for it.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Tesla Tank]

Funny story. There was a guy in my residence that had an Alienware CASE with very average mid-range hardware inside. Every gamer that goes to his room would immediately start to comment on his Alienware PC, at which point, his roommate would quickly inform that person that it has just an Alienware case. Very entertaining to watch. :)

Linguistic speculation

[PizzaFace]

The irony of this saying is that it must have come from the UK because we all get it right, it must have been picked up by someone who didn't understand the meaning and now the senseless version spreads across the US.

As long as we're speculating, I'll guess that the phrase came from the southern U.S., where many idiomatic phrases like "couldn't care less" and "six and one-half dozen of the other" were commonly used to express simple ideas in a complex way. I'm sure linguists have a term for that. First- and second-generation English speakers would have heard such a phrase and understood its meaning from its context, but might not have grasped the internal sense of the phrase, and could therefore distort it when they repeated it phonetically. Frankly, I'm extrapolating from observations of my southern, WASP mother and my northern, immigrants'-son father, who always warned me that it's a doggy-dog world.

Re:Linguistic speculation

[Nick Mitchell]

i've always wondered why people say "six and one half dozen of the other". Shouldn't it be "six of one, half dozen of the other" -- with the comma being the equals sign, you thus state a tautology to reinforce that you "could care less" about the difference?

My dad phrased it the former way my whole childhood. It was one of those linguistic ambiguities, you know the ones that haunt you, hehe -- am I just mishearing that, or is there something strange about it?

Re:Linguistic speculation

[PizzaFace]

Now that you mention it, I can easily imagine someone hearing "six of one, half dozen of the other," and thinking it was "six and one half dozen of the other." I don't doubt that's where the phrase came from.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[BigCheese]

I think they're aimed at upper middle class kids. The same ones who get a sports car to drive to high school.

Reputation

[treak007]

Alienware IMO has always been quite a bit overpriced. To the average person, an alienware carries with it the reputation of being an amazing gaming machine, therefore, there will always be people who just want a gaming rig, and are willing to pay a lot (even if its overpriced) just to say they have an alienware. Its more about the reputation then the actual computer.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I do want to defend the "mod scene."

Ricers are beyond defending. Put up or shut up, basically.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[sco08y]

So who is the real target for these cases? People with a really bad case of mid-life crisis, maybe? Or what?

Ever heard the song "Pretty Fly (for a White Guy)" by Offspring?

There really are guys who will take a nice little Honda and bolt a spoiler on that looks like a park bench. And there really are guys who will put a VTEC sticker on a model that has never had a VTEC engine.

I let one guy borrow my car (which is just a little 1990 Prelude, btw) for a few days. A few days later I'm at a gas station and some girl asks me why I'm driving *his* car.

I don't know exactly what I'd call the target market, but I suspect that when they're not breathing they're lying.

Performance : Dollar

[StikyPad]

What I'd really like to see is a review of machines with the most performance and features for the dollar.

Alienware Configurator

[cantalpii]

What's the point in offering nine million configuration types, when they only allow the choice of Windows XP as an OS? WTF?!!

It's FIVE YEARS OLD NOW, let us choose something else you idiots.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[snuf23]

You know the Alienware computer that is reviewed IS a fast computer. It just isn't a good value or as fast as you can get for the money. The key differences they noted are:

1. Choice of a single dual GPU 7950GTX card vs 2 7900GTX cards in SLI on the other systems. (Note that you could add a 2nd 7950GTX for quad SLI)
2. Standard clock rates on the CPU and video cards versus overclocking on the other systems.

The Alienware system is certainly faster than the Core 2 Duo 6600 + 7900GT system that I just put together. The problem is simply that it is overpriced and not a good value.

no, the irony is...

[YesIAmAScript]

The true irony is that some guy from the UK is lecturing on how to use English correctly, and then uses "irony" to mean something that isn't even close to ironic. In what way is an internet posting about an Alienware PC using "couldn't care less" incorrectly ironic?

Now that that's over, I can say that my guess is it got shortened to "could care less" just from people hearing it and repeating it incorrectly. In many areas, "couldn't" becomes "could'n" and the n glides into the c and nearly disappears. No one cares that it makes no sense, where is it written that idioms must make sense when deconstructed into parts? I mean, in exactly what way is Bob really my uncle?

Re:no, the irony is...

[Colin Smith]

The irony is that the original correct saying originated in the UK and was exported, we are now importing the corrupt US version. You wouldn't see that irony, because well, 1: You're American and I think they remove that part of the brain at birth, or maybe you're innoculated against it, how else do we explain George Dubbya Bush? and 2: You're American and use the incorrect version without thought (again which is normal American practice).

News flash

[vga_init]

This is where I make some snarky comment about water being wet or cows in Kansas.

Fool!

[woolio]

replaced not only the motherboard but the two drives, the processor, the RAM, the powersupply, and the soundcard.

He replaced your harddrives?

I bet he was working for the RIAA.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Anonymous Coward]

some girl asks me why I'm driving *his* car

"Because we're fucking each other!" is the right answer in this situation.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[fm6]

And if you take the hot rod analogy a little further, you find guys who like to think of themselves as hot rodders (or techies) but really aren't. So they by a car (or a computer) that looks vaguely like a souped-up car (or computer), but is actually just a stock car (or white box) with overpriced decorations.

Correction.

[Anonymous Coward]

Should read: A lot of people can build you a car that is by far faster at accelerating than a lamborghini, for about a quarter of the cost. Just pick up an issue of Car Craft for evidence

Car Craft/Hot Hod are magazines that focus on drag cars of all sorts, mainly street rods. Once in a while there is a token attempt at adding road course style suspension parts, but for the most part, these are squirt racing rags.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Moraelin]

Very true, which is why I put the Rice Boy link in there. Still, those are either teenagers or, well, they may be middle-aged men, but they're not upper-middle class as the GGP post implied. If I look at what upper-middle-class folks drive when they want a status symbol car, for example at what my team mates drive, I see two sports-y BMWs, a Mercedes and one even drives a nice Jaguar. Of course, some just don't go for an expensive car at all, so there are a ton of family cars or small cheap cars too in the parking lot. A couple of well paid managers drive Skodas, for example, which are pretty good cars at a low price, thanks to being manufactured cheaply in the Czech republic.

But I've yet to see a single car in the parking lot with a fake wing, fake 4 inch exhaust or fake disk brakes. Those who want to look sportsy just get a real fast car, and those who don't, don't.

I disagree, Alienware is awesome, here's why

[eliot1785]

People on this forum keep saying that Alienware is bad because of 2 things:
1. It is overpriced
2. Its computers are not always the fastest on the market.

The problem is that you are treating the two as single factors instead of combining them. There may be a few computers out there that are faster than Alienware, and there are certainly a lot of computers out there that are cheaper. But the COMBINATION of price and speed is still quite good.

If you don't believe me, go look at the price right now for their 17-inch SLI notebook (first of its kind), the m9700. It has a base price of only $1600, which is incredible considering that the model is capable of dual graphics cards, RAID hard drives, 1920x1200 display, Turion 64-bit processor, all-in-one card reader, etc. Granted, that base price comes stripped down, and doesn't include the cost of the second graphics card. But even when you configure it upwards, you can still get one of the best all-around notebooks out there for mid-2000's.

I don't think any other notebook out there has the best combination of price and speed as the m9700. If I had more money right now, I would buy it right away. However I am currently an entrepreneur, and am borrowing up to my ears.

They also have a desktop that does Quad-SLI with the PhysX physics processor, liquid cooling, etc. It costs a small fortune but it is outrageously fast.

In sum, what I am saying is that their price-quality combination for high-end systems remains very good.

Also, while other high-end retailers might have somewhat lower prices (though actually, they seem to have higher prices, like Falcon Northwest), whatever price savings you have is going to be offset by lower build quality, the possibility they won't even be around to fulfill your warranty, etc. There are Alienware horror stories out there just like any other company, but from what I've heard, the build quality is more consistent than other sellers. Also, they are shipping faster now - the laptop I mentioned at the top currently ships in 7 days.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[Anonymous Coward]

keep driving your cavalier and pretend you're cool troll.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[lgw]

like to bring my case to a LAN tourney and have people remember me because I'm "that guy with the yellow case," or have people bring their friends/families from across the room just to look at my case.

Just so you realize they're no laughing with you. You do realize that people don't come to point and stare because it's cool, right?

And those guys who spend tons of money on engine, intake, and exhaust mods for their Civics? You do realize they have stock horsepower, right? That the ads for those products aren't truthful?

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

#1 that's the joke. I like to have people remember what I've done. I never said anything about cool or uncool, I have fun doing it which is all that matters. If all you ever do in life is what other people want you to, you'll have a pretty shitty life.

#2 I take it you've never heard of a dynamometer before have you?

Nice try at being a troll though, better luck next time :)

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[lgw]

Hey, just so you realize, that's all I'm sayin.

And it's nearly impossible to add more that 10% to the horspower of any modern engine without spending so much money that it would have been cheaper to buy a better car. Bolt-on performance parts don't work, beyond the small performance/reliability tradeoff you can make with different engine computer programming.

The one true method of improving engine horsepower has been known for generations:

1. Pull the head.
2. Fill each cylinder with $100 bills packed as tightly as possible.
3. Deliver to a machine shop.

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

and what does the machine shop do, magically do some mod that doesn't work? or do they have some super secret mods that only they can do?
All I was saying was that the guys/gals who do the engine work, aspiration, weight reduction, and tuning tend to pull some nice performance out of their cars. These cars are generally around 15 years old, before the car manufacturers started trying to lock out the backyard mechanics. When I was talking aestetics I meant people who go up to the local wallmart or canadian tire and "deck out" their cars with the $25 fake air intakes, the $50 loud mufflers, and the god awful skull and crossbone decals. But Once again, these guys enjoy what they do. Is it really that hard to accept that some people have fun in different ways than you?

Re:Speaking as an upper-middle-class middle-age ma

[lgw]

A machine shop can increase your displacement, blueprint and balance, and similarly expensive things. You don't need a machine shop to replace cast pistons/rods/crankshaft with forged, but that's not the sort of engine mod that most of the ricers are up for. Stealing an Acura engine and dropping it in a Civic is more their speed.

Have fun, sure. People have fun all sorts of ways. But tacking midget bleachers on your trunk lid (or spending hundreds on "bolt-on performance mods" that do nothing) is the sort of fun that make people point and laugh. But hey, if you like being the center of attention even if it's not "good attention", go for it.

actually, no...

[YesIAmAScript]

I use the correct version. I began doing so after having a discussion about it with my friends at age 10. Oh, it sure was heady stuff for a ten-year-old. You must be the absolute smartest ten-year-old in all of Britain to make such persuasive arguments about it.

As to me not thinking about it. I would ask again, could you explain to me how Bob is my Uncle? Surely you don't use idioms like that without thought about it?

Idioms often do not mean what their component words would make you think. That's why they are idioms.

Dell is bliss

[TropiCHAOS]

I don't know why you guys hate Dell so much. I love them. Now that I convinced my family and my neighbors to go Dell, my life is much better: instead of bothering me, all they have to do is call customer service.

I've even retired my "No, I will not fix your computer" shirt.