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FCC Orders Anti-Monopoly Report Destroyed

jagger writes "According to an article on MSNBC a report, written by two economists in the FCC's Media Bureau, showed local ownership of television stations adds almost five and one-half minutes of total news to broadcasts and more than three minutes of 'on-location' news. The conclusion is at odds with FCC arguments made when it voted in 2003 to increase the number of television stations a company could own in a single market. Senior managers at the agency ordered that 'every last piece' of the report be destroyed."

273 comments

  1. And? by BoomerSooner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We are surprised by this why?

    1. Re:And? by megaditto · · Score: 1

      Because that's not the American Way.

      That's not how this are normally done 'round here.

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    2. Re:And? by LarryWest42 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps because being cynical and smug about every evil action one encounters doesn't actually seem to make anyone any better off? Except the evildoers, of course.

    3. Re:And? by w9wi · · Score: 1

      It certainly wouldn't be the first time the current FCC has ignored the facts to implement what lobbyists were telling them to do. Admittedly, sometimes Congress gets into the act too. Looking at strictly technical issues, we've seen:

      IBOC digital radio, where a spurious-emission limit intended to cover intermittent splatter like cymbal crashes and the crack of a baseball bat is used to justify digital sideband hash that's there 100% of the time. (and causes severe interference to existing analog service)

      Low-power FM, where you can't have a station on 90.5 in West Memphis if it originates its own programs, because it might interfere with existing stations on 89.9 and 91.1. But if the station instead relays a St. Louis station, not only does it not interfere anymore (?!) but it can run 2.5 times the power & operate even closer in frequency to the 89.9 and 91.1 stations.

      Broadband over power lines, which like IBOC uses interference exemptions intended to cover brief, intermittent, and unintentional transmissions to justify signals that are present 100% of the time and cause severe interference to existing stations. (it's also touted as a way of getting broadband to unserved rural homes - but to date has been deployed only in well-to-do urban suburbs...)

      When I had my first experiences with the Commission - getting a ham radio license back in 1973 at age 14 - the FCC was a respected organization. Everyone expected their technical rules to be based on real science. It sure isn't that way anymore!

  2. Memory hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Rather frightening that with every passing day, the US is getting closer and closer to Eric Blair's 1948 visions...

    1. Re:Memory hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was that a slip of Orwell's 1984?

    2. Re:Memory hole by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      Oh, come on. You can't even do a quick check on google or wikipedia?

      --
      ResidntGeek
    3. Re:Memory hole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not a slip. Eric Blair used "George Orwell" as his pen name, and "1984" was written in 1948.

    4. Re:Memory hole by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And I don't think I'm the first to be taken by irony that Blair was brought to us by . . .Blair.

      KFG

  3. What a surprise by Aexia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Bush administration disregards evidence contradicting their world view.

    1. Re:What a surprise by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      The Bush administration disregards evidence contradicting their world view.
      I hope you enjoyed getting your dig in there. Perhaps you didn't realize that the FCC Chairman at that time (Michael Powell) was appointed by President Bill Clinton. Somebody rate the parent comment as flamebait.
      --

      GreyPoopon
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    2. Re:What a surprise by rwven · · Score: 0

      Yeah since obviously the bush administration sits in the drivers seat of the FCC. Great logic there. "Blame Bush."

      An FCC decision has nothing to do with who is president...

    3. Re:What a surprise by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      any Administration does. Corruption and mis-managment is not owned by any one party or group.
      poli: many
      tics: small blood sucking creatures.
      politics
      Its time to kick the bad guys out and put our bad guys in!

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    4. Re:What a surprise by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1
      The Bush administration disregards evidence contradicting their world view.
      It would be more correct to say they hide evidence that discredits their public claims. Especially with regards to corporate interests, I have no reason to believe that the report contradicted their beliefs. It was just inconvenient to their goal enriching big businesses.
    5. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who appoints the chairman of the FCC? President Bush. Who sets FCC policy? The FCC chair. Ergo... you are seeing Bush administration policy in action.

    6. Re:What a surprise by lottameez · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, not that I disagree with you about the GP, but Michael Powell didn't become FCC chairman until Bush appointed him. He was appointed to the FCC by Clinton.

      --
      Yeah? Well I think you're overrated too.
    7. Re:What a surprise by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      I distrust anyone who falls strongly along partisan lines, or who insists the other side always lies while they always tell the truth.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    8. Re:What a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Other than the Microsoft investigation, Clinton was very Republican like with economic issues; a "socially liberal" capitalist if you will.

    9. Re:What a surprise by bmajik · · Score: 1

      Wow! How did the immediate parent get modded Flamebait? I'd think it would either be "Informative" - he basically offers a factual contradiction of the original post. Unless the guy is just plain wrong, in which case a response along the lines of "wrong:" with a citation would be the better approach.

      Which, on the topic of the OP - IMO it should have been flamebait, troll, or off-topic - it adds nothing to the discussion at hand, is begging for negative reactions, or is purposefully taking a point of view to incite heated response.

      Modding someone down that disagrees with a particular world view is damn hypocritical in an article about the FCC destroying inconvenient evidence.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    10. Re:What a surprise by Skye16 · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between appointing a dude to the FCC and appointing him to the chair. Clinton did the former, Bush the latter.

      Seriously, though, you bring Clinton up as if that's some sort of defense. All it proves is that he was a tool too.

    11. Re:What a surprise by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Informative
      ...but Michael Powell didn't become FCC chairman until Bush appointed him. He was appointed to the FCC by Clinton.
      Yeah, good point. Nevertheless, it appears that both presidents liked the man. There's plenty of bad things to say about the Bush administration, but blaming it/him for things like this just cheapens the argument.
      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
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    12. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's a misrepresentation. First of all, Michael Powell is a Republican. He may have been appointed to a position in the FCC by Clinton in '97, however president Bush appointed him chairman of the FCC immediately after his first inauguration in 2001. As a member of the FCC board during the Clinton administration, Powell would not have had the power to set FCC policy. However, as the Chair under Bush - he certainly did. What we're seeing here is most definitely not Clinton FCC policy.

    13. Re:What a surprise by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      The FCC wasn't nearly this bad in the past. Clinton's FCC, particularly under Reed Hunt, was pretty good, especially for the Internet and WiFi.

      How come when Democrats have problems, no one defends them with "the Republicans are just as bad", even though Republicans, especially the ones we're dealing with now, are so much worse?

      Go: Movement
      Vern: Green
      Ment: Thinking

      OK, "vern" doesn't mean "green", but it's no sillier than your version.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    14. Re:What a surprise by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1
      Unless the guy is just plain wrong, in which case a response along the lines of "wrong:" with a citation would be the better approach.
      I wasn't plain wrong, but you'll see from a couple other posts that although Clinton appointed Michael to the FCC, it was Bush that elevated him to chairman. So, probably both my comment and the OP should be nailed as flamebait.
      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    15. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, I don't realize that - because it's not factually accurate. Powell, as a member of the GOP, was appointed to the FCC board by Clinton in '97. Bush appointed him Chair to the FCC board in January of 2001. As a board member he was in no position to set or control policy. As the chairman of the FCC, under a president of the same political party, one can reasonably assume Michael Powell enacted policy as set by the Bush administration. These intellectual contortions to avoid that fact is just plain lame. Deal.

    16. Re:What a surprise by GreyPoopon · · Score: 2, Informative
      That's a misrepresentation. First of all, Michael Powell is a Republican. He may have been appointed to a position in the FCC by Clinton in '97, however president Bush appointed him chairman of the FCC immediately after his first inauguration in 2001. As a member of the FCC board during the Clinton administration, Powell would not have had the power to set FCC policy. However, as the Chair under Bush - he certainly did. What we're seeing here is most definitely not Clinton FCC policy.
      I'll admit that I wasn't detailed enough in my post, but although Michael Powell is a Republican, his policy is more Libertarian in nature. I believe he was pro net-neutrality, and he fined Madison River Communications for blocking VoIP. So, it sounds like his policy is a mixed bag for Slashdotters.
      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    17. Re:What a surprise by BrynM · · Score: 5, Informative
      Perhaps you didn't realize that the FCC Chairman at that time (Michael Powell) was appointed by President Bill Clinton. Somebody rate the parent comment as flamebait.
      Damn there's a lot of "facts" being thrown around in this thread. From the Wikipedia article on Michael Powell:
      President George W. Bush designated him chairman of the commission on 22 January 2001. (then at the end of the article) Powell resigned as Chairman of the FCC on January 21, 2005.
      He was followed by Kevin Martin. According to his WP entry:
      Martin worked several years for Wiley, Rein & Fielding, "Rated Top Telecommunications Lobbyists" according to an article on their website. The firm represents the Bells as well as Viacom/CBS, Gannett, Belo, Emmis, Gray Television, and Motorola.
      . Thus, the current and most recent former Chairmen of the FCC have been both Bush appointees, Republicans and the current one is a former media company lobbyist.
      --
      US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
    18. Re:What a surprise by pilgrim23 · · Score: 1

      As I have no dog in either fight, not being a member of either major party, I think my statement stands. I do not know why one party does or does not do as you suggest. I would suggest.....ask them...

      --
      - Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
    19. Re:What a surprise by rabel · · Score: 1

      yeah, I suspect so do a lot of people. What's your point? The post you're responding to does nothing of the sort.

    20. Re:What a surprise by Moofie · · Score: 0

      So where DOES the buck stop in the executive branch? I'm curious.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    21. Re:What a surprise by rwven · · Score: 1

      So... If you are a hacker...and you get hired at a company who doesnt know you're a hacker...and you hack something "bad" while at work...by your logic, people outside watching your actions are watching the policy of your employer in action.

      Sorry bub, but you're wrong. If *You* take an action then *You* are responsible.

    22. Re:What a surprise by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 0, Troll

      He's in charge. Isn't the definition of responsibility being blamed when stuff you control fucks up?

    23. Re:What a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The chairman is just another vote on the board. He is still in no position to set policy on his own.

    24. Re:What a surprise by megaditto · · Score: 5, Funny

      My point exactly.

      It is all Clinton's and Democrats' fault, since they (Clinton and the Democrats) currently control the White House, the Congress, the Senate, and the Supreme Court. Republicans have no say whatsoever. As you know, Clinton took the funding away from FEMA before Katrina, appointed college dropouts to edit scientific reports on global warming, and even appointed this hack to head FCC.

      Remember that Republicans have no power to subpoena anyone and launch an investigation into anything since they are the minority party, be it

      -Iraq (damn Clinton got us there by getting CIA to lie about WMDs there),
      -9/11 (Monica distracted Clinton from reading 'Bin Laden determined to attack the U.S.' memo in August '01),
      -gas prices (damn Democrats get donations from the oil companies),
      -unemployment or healthcare (ditto),
      -record deficit (damn liberals love their Big-Spending Government),
      -illegal wiretapping (damn Clinton has no respect for the Constitution by spying on his oponents)
      -tax cuts at the time of war (fucking Democrats setting us up for tax hike in the future)
      -letting North Korea develop nukes (that's 9/11 Windows' fault there, not just Clinton's)
      -letting $4,000,000,000 in cash literally disappear after taking over Iraq's Food-for-oil accounts (Democrats paying off their terror buddies for 9/11?)
      -or taking bribes from Abramoff (50 Democrats took bribes vs 1 Republican)
      -election finance reforms (currently the Democrats have 500% more money than the Republicans to spend on elections, somehow)

      Please remember that since Republicans do not have the majority in either House or Senate, they are powerless to bring any laws to vote, hold an oversight hearing, subpoena any witnesses, or launch any investigations.

      This is why we should vote Republican this November to restore checks and balances to our Government.

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    25. Re:What a surprise by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I didn't ask you why the Democrats don't defend themselves the way I mentioned. I asked why no one does - including people like you, who are quick to downplay Republican crimes like the one we're discussing in that way.

      I'm not a member of any party. Who have you voted for in the past few elections? Then tell me you don't favor one party over another.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    26. Re:What a surprise by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      >...people like you, who are quick to downplay Republican crimes like the one we're discussing in that way.

      Wait, what crime? You may not personally approve of an FCC exec quashing some report that puts their policy in an unfavorable light, but they did have the right to do it. It was their report to shred. I don't like it either, but I'm not prepared to take it to the Attorney General and demand prosecution for a crime.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    27. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here is the complete list of commissioners and when they were appointed. Please note each of the appointments past Jan 20th, 2001. Now, who set FCC policy? Was it Democratic commissioners or Republican? You figure it out.

      And quit selecting specific facts out of context in order to misrepresent the obvious. It's both disingenuous and easily refuted.

    28. Re:What a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No man, he's just pulling a 'Hannity' on you.

      Sets you up with a blatantly false premise, then makes you defend it.

      Of course, the truth is that Bush has appointed the Chairman in question (and the one after him, both of whom are incompetent, but are loyal Republicans: a common trend in this Administration's appointees.)

    29. Re:What a surprise by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      There's lots of Bush crimes that aren't even against the law, or soon will have the law revised. I'm not bothering to make the distinction any more. Why should I, when it just gives them more places to hide?

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    30. Re:What a surprise by DAldredge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The question is who can fire him. That has a much larger effect on the actions of some than who hired them does.

    31. Re:What a surprise by lostboy2 · · Score: 1

      The sentence I found most interesting in Wikipedia was "Kevin Martin has subsequently purged the FCC of many of Powell's staff." His response to Senator Boxer is clearly a "It wasn't me!" defense (whether or not it really was, is another matter).

      FWIW, the Chief of the Media Bureau at the time appears to have been Ken Ferree.

    32. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 1

      So... If you are a hacker...and you get hired at a company who doesnt know you're a hacker...and you hack something "bad" while at work...by your logic, people outside watching your actions are watching the policy of your employer in action.

      Please allow me to rearrange your analogy into something a little closer to the truth:

      A man is hired into upper management of a firm (Powell in '97). As a manager, he is expected to follow policy as set by the board of directors and the board Chair (President Clinton). The board and chair change hands (President Bush, Jan 2001). This new Chair decides to promote the man to CEO of the firm. The man as CEO now engages in massive layoffs.

      Who do you think set the cost restructuring policy? In the real world it would be the board (President Bush) telling the CEO to meet a cost and head count target, and then it would be up to the CEO to create and enact a plan to meet those targets. The CEO did NOT set the policy, he instead crafted a plan to meet the policy as set by the board of directors.

      IOW: Bush always sets policy for his administration, but it is up to the heads of each agency to determine for themselves (often with the direction of cabinet members) the exact plan to meet the administration's targets.

    33. Re:What a surprise by InsaneGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd maybe go with that if he hadn't been so entwined with the whole content protection thought process that previous administration brought into play "DMCA, Sonny Bono act, v-chip, etc" along with the 5 dems that were the author of the DMCA2 (SSSCA/CBDTPA) which he was for as well. I will agree that Martin is not angel as the broadcast flag passed with no votes against it (which means he voted for it).

      Earlier this year in regards to the broadcast flags hearings, 2 dems (Stevens & Inouye) stood up and basically said that "having no broadcast flag is a terrible thing content providers will stop providing, so we have to pass this as soon as possible". Which repub Sununu later said (I'll directly quote it because it is so good):

      "The suggestion is that if we don't do this, it will stifle creativity. Well...we have now an unprecedented wave of creativity and product and content development...new business models, and new methodologies for distributing this content. The history of government mandates is that it always restricts innovation...why would we think that this one special time, we're going to impose a statutory government mandate on technology, and it will actually encourage innovation?"

      The problem I see is everybody tries to pin *everything* on Bush, you trip on a crack and it's his fault, etc. Critize him for the correct things, and you will get people to listen, the witch hunt for trying to tie anything & everything to him is a problem because now people are tuning out because "the sky is falling" has been called and attributed to him too many times. I try to keep a little more of an open mind where I can then actually say "Bush is an ass because of this" and directly point to it, rather than say basically everything is his fault.

    34. Re:What a surprise by maynard · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem I see is everybody tries to pin *everything* on Bush, you trip on a crack and it's his fault, etc.

      Two points:

      1) Fritz Hollings (D-South Carolina): Proposed the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act, an onerous and horrific bill had it been passed. IOW: There are many Democrats on the side of media monopolies too.

      2) President Bush is responsible for setting policy, and that includes FCC policy. However, that does not mean that President Bush had anything to do with the decision to destroy this document. In all likelihood, he didn't even know it existed. However, the President is still responsible for what happens under his watch as the policymaker. Boards of directors still hold CEOs accountable for serious mismanagement or criminal conduct by their staff, even if the CEO may not have been directly involved.

    35. Re:What a surprise by Mateo_LeFou · · Score: 1

      I think every last shred of the parent's post should be destroyed.

      --
      My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
    36. Re:What a surprise by mseitz · · Score: 1

      "I will agree that Martin is not angel as the broadcast flag passed with no votes against it (which means he voted for it)."

      Doesn't it mean he either a) voted for it or b) did not cast a vote?

    37. Re:What a surprise by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      In a small leather packet nestled against the gluteus maximus. Did I spell it right?

      --
      What?
    38. Re:What a surprise by fredrated · · Score: 0

      "You do of course realize that the chairman of the FCC in 2004 had been appointed by Bill Clinton in 1997 don't you?"

      Those were the days when a president would often appoint to a position someone from the other party. That evenhandedness sure went away fast didn't it?

    39. Re:What a surprise by epee1221 · · Score: 1

      At the moment, with Karl Rove.

      --
      "The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
    40. Re:What a surprise by Scudsucker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'll admit that I wasn't detailed enough in my post, but although Michael Powell is a Republican, his policy is more Libertarian in nature.

      If he was Libertarian, the FCC wouldn't have gone ape shit over Janet Jackson or fined Howard Stern for reading a transcript of an Oprah show discussing "tossing the salad"...for which she of course was not fined. So he looks more like your typical big business, high horse riding moralist Republican.

    41. Re:What a surprise by sjames · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of bad things to say about the Bush administration, but blaming it/him for things like this just cheapens the argument.

      "But Johnny did it too" didn't work in 1st grade and it doesn't work for Bush now. He has had 6 years to correct the mistake if he saw fit. Some things like the economy have a significant inertia where a president may actually be blameless for the negative consequences of his predesessor's actions, but this is not one of those things. He was perfectly free to undo Clinton's choices for the FCC, but instead, he has compounded Clinton's actions there.

      Pretending Clinton/Democrats in general haven't been just as bad WRT copyright and DRM would cheapen the argument.

  4. Oblig 1984 by da3dAlus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Minitruth has determined this information to be doubleplusungood. Please deposit all copies of this report to the memory hole immediately.

    --

    Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    1. Re:Oblig 1984 by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      A good Party member shouldn't have to be told when information is doubleplusungood. With a small mental effort all the appropriate attitudes for knowing what is good and ungood can be easily attained.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    2. Re:Oblig 1984 by Zarel · · Score: 1

      You duckspeaker; you unbellyfeel Newspeak! The word is "Minitrue".

      --
      Want a high quality FOSS RTS game? Try Warzone 2100!
    3. Re:Oblig 1984 by da3dAlus · · Score: 2

      Attention user #16116678: as you know, all freethought has been banned, and is considered harmful. Your discussion of "mental effort" and "knowing what is good and ungood" has been reported to the Thought Police, who will be at your home shortly.

      --

      Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
    4. Re:Oblig 1984 by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      Comrade, your behavior plusungood. Resume doublethink doubleplusquickwise.

      --
      ResidntGeek
  5. Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's friday and I was wondering where our Just-In-Time-For-The-Weekend conspiracy was going to come from! Thanks Slashdot!

    1. Re:Yes! by jagger · · Score: 1

      Always happy to oblige. Did you get your complimentary tinfoil hat when you came in?

  6. FOIA by sdaemon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can someone get a FOIA suit going fast enough to beat the shredders to those docs?

    The FCC is kinda frightening. It does a lot of good, but it does a lot of harm as well. It's on my top 3 list of government agencies to not piss off.

    1. Re:FOIA by Skye16 · · Score: 1

      They're on my top 3 list of government agencies to piss on.

      (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

    2. Re:FOIA by Aadain2001 · · Score: 1

      What are the other two, just out of curiosity?

      --
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    3. Re:FOIA by syrinje · · Score: 1

      The other 2 agencies being??

      --
      See that long UID - that's what you get for lurking too long
    4. Re:FOIA by Surt · · Score: 1

      All of the other posters want to know what the other 2 agencies are, but I want to know what good you think the FCC does?

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    5. Re:FOIA by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      IRS and FBI ?

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    6. Re:FOIA by wfberg · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I want to know what good you think the FCC does?

      * managing the spectrum. Not what goes over the airwaves, but who gets to use them for what purpose. (You don't want your local HAM interfering with TV or emergency services frequencies)
      * regulating the crap out of telcos, preventing much telco rapage (they're doing this less and less, regretably)
      * certifying electronic shit so it doesn't interfere with your other electronic shit

      Those are pretty much the good things. The bad things are

      * trying to be the thought police (nipplegate!)
      * being big and slow and bureaucratic (we want more free-for-all spectrum weeeeh ultrawideband weeeh)
      * failing to regulate industries despite huge whopping monopoly abuse (media ownership, ADSL/net neutrality, etc.)

      --
      SCO employee? Check out the bounty
    7. Re:FOIA by ResidntGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, the DEA's gotta be one of them.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    8. Re:FOIA by Control+Group · · Score: 1

      I can only assume that the IRS and the BATFE are the other two.

      --

      Reality has a conservative bias: it conserves mass, energy, momentum...
    9. Re:FOIA by tool462 · · Score: 1
      The FCC is kinda frightening. It does a lot of good, but it does a lot of harm as well. It's on my top 3 list of government agencies to not piss off.
      Is that why you want somebody else to file the FOIA suit?
    10. Re:FOIA by mfrank · · Score: 1

      BATF, for the size of their force, is more likely to kill you.

    11. Re:FOIA by sdaemon · · Score: 1

      IRS and FAA.

    12. Re:FOIA by sdaemon · · Score: 1

      Yep, that's the good stuff. Though of late its the other licensed (more or less) services getting to interfere with the local hams, and the FCC not lifting a finger.

    13. Re:FOIA by BGraves · · Score: 1

      How about top three agencies to abolish?

    14. Re:FOIA by mark3748 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      The FCC is completely unneeded in today's society, it wasn't even needed in 1934, and has caused nothing but problems since then.

      The FCC rejected long-distance telephone service competition in 1968, banned Americans from buying their own non-Bell telephones in 1956, dragged its feet in the 1970s when considering whether video telephones would be allowed and did not grant modern cellular telephone licenses until 1981--about four decades after Bell Labs invented the technology. Along the way, the FCC has preserved monopolistic practices that would have otherwise been illegal under antitrust law. All of this has cost Americans billions of dollars.

      After the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which removed some barriers to competition, there is even less of a need for the FCC. Local phone customers don't need to worry about the Bells' monopolistic practices, because they effectively aren't monopolies anymore. Cable customers don't need to worry much about monopolistic practices because of satellite TV. Eventually, fiber connections will transport every kind of data.

      Before 1934, there were conflicts, but the courts were working with the common-law method of creating rules for the new medium. And such would have worked great, except The Radio Act of 1927, followed by the Communications Act of 1934, gave the FCC unlimited power to assign frequencies, approve broadcasters' power levels and revoke licenses on a whim. The FCC already enjoyed the power to regulate telephone lines and eventually would accumulate the authority to regulate cable as well.

      We could abolish the FCC today and not cause any problems whatsoever. What it would mean is returning to bottom-up law instead of top-down, as it is now and has been for the past 80 years or so.

      Not only would it prevent any more economic cost of missed opportunities caused by regulation, it would also save taxpayers over $300 million a year.

      Now this may be too Libertarian and Free-Market for some people to understand, but that's just me. I've been a Libertarian since before I was able to vote, and I've been in IT and Telecomm since I got my first job. I believe in freedom and the free-market. I also believe in accountability in government, ie, allowing the people of the US have a say in what the government does, as well as answer for their actions. since the FCC is unelected, and given near limitless regulatory power, I have an extreme dislike of them.

      now you can see why the "good" in the above post isn't that good, and the bad is, well, not good either.

      * failing to regulate industries despite huge whopping monopoly abuse (media ownership, ADSL/net neutrality, etc.)

      the FCC has no right regulating them anyhow... but thats more of my free-market philosophy.

    15. Re:FOIA by zCyl · · Score: 1
      the FCC has no right regulating them anyhow... but thats more of my free-market philosophy.

      Err, and how is the magic free market going to save you your neighbor or a company down the street decides to destroy your TV/radio reception, or screw up every CRT in your house, while they are playing with high power broadcasts for fun or profit?

      How will the free market save you when a business decides it is more profitable to buy up the entire internet backbone and sublicense access to only the wealthiest sources of information?

      Faith in the free market solving all your problems carries with it a very heavy assumption that what is most profitable for businesses will make things better for you. In reality, an exclusive focus on what is most profitable for business can make things much worse for you. Capitalism only works when there is freedom of choice for the consumer, but profit is maximized when the consumer does not have freedom of choice. A completely unregulated market will naturally approach the second condition.
    16. Re:FOIA by ResidntGeek · · Score: 1

      You're right, I forgot about ATF. I had an ATF visit my history class last year - I don't think he appreciated the daggers I glared through him. Man I hate the ATF. He replied above, apparently he's more scared of the IRS than the DEA or ATF. Logical, but I'd be more scared of the DEA - if you piss them off, you're dead in the water. With the IRS you can probably just pay up your taxes and a heavy fine and you'll be free. The DEA will throw your lawless ass in jail for a year and fine you the amount of their boat payment that month, just for possession of 2 ounces of weed.

      --
      ResidntGeek
    17. Re:FOIA by mike2R · · Score: 1

      Err, and how is the magic free market going to save you your neighbor or a company down the street decides to destroy your TV/radio reception, or screw up every CRT in your house, while they are playing with high power broadcasts for fun or profit?

      As the parent said, leave it to the courts. If there aren't any laws to deal with that situation; that's why you have a legislature.

      How will the free market save you when a business decides it is more profitable to buy up the entire internet backbone and sublicense access to only the wealthiest sources of information?

      It won't, again the courts will do that under anti trust law.

      I believe in the free market system, but this doesn't mean I'm anti regulation. A free market will never exist without regulation since it will degenerate into monopolies, cartels, and maybe ultimately feudalism. But this emphatically doesn't mean that all regulation is good regulation.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
    18. Re:FOIA by paitre · · Score: 1

      Only 3?

      IRS
      FBI
      BATF

      Are probably my top three. After that, pretty much the entire rest of the cabinet level positions, including the Department of Homeland (in)Security. Easily 75% of the current executive level government positions are either extra-constitutional or are outright unconstitutional.

    19. Re:FOIA by mark3748 · · Score: 1
      first off, I never said anything about no regulations, I just said that the FCC is certainly not the ones to regulate.

      as I said, there should be a bottom-up approach to law making, and it can be done with common-law methods, not a regulatory agency, and most of the problems you forsee are already taken care of with existing (non-FCC) laws.

      The free market is self-regulating. a corporation that does as you suggest it will, will quickly cease to exist. You piss off your customers, and they are no longer customers. How do you stay in business without customers giving you their money? You don't. You don't like what someone else is doing? sue them. Just read this part of an article by Declan McCullagh of cnet news:

      "Once the standard parcels are defined, they can be sold to the highest bidders," Huber writes. "To keep for how long? Forever. Just like land." If just one UHF (ultrahigh frequency) television station in Los Angeles were permitted to transfer its spectrum to a third cellular provider, Huber estimates, "the overall public gain would be about $1 billion, or so the government itself estimated in 1992." Wireless technologies would be huge winners, if the spectrum were privatized.

      What if disputes over spectrum arose? The answer is simple. Whoever owned the rights to that slice of virtual real estate would locate the illicit broadcaster, march into the local courthouse and get a restraining order to pull the plug on the transmitter. Trespass is hardly a new idea, and courts are well-equipped to deal with it.

      One fear is that some predatory monopolist, a Microsoft of the airwaves, would end up owning all of the spectrum. That won't happen. First, the market value of the spectrum would approach $1 trillion, out of the reach of any individual corporation. Second, antitrust laws would remain on the books. The Department of Justice could wield the Sherman Antitrust Act to challenge unlawful conduct and block mergers.

      and the portion of the LP platform on freedom of communication:

      We defend the rights of individuals to unrestricted freedom of speech, freedom of the press and the right of individuals to dissent from government itself. We recognize that full freedom of expression is possible only as part of a system of full property rights. The freedom to use one's own voice; the freedom to hire a hall; the freedom to own a printing press, a broadcasting station, or a transmission cable; the freedom to host and publish information on the Internet; the freedom to wave or burn one's own flag; and similar property-based freedoms are precisely what constitute freedom of communication. At the same time, we recognize that freedom of communication does not extend to the use of other people's property to promote one's ideas without the voluntary consent of the owners.

      ...free market ownership of airwave frequencies, deserving of full First Amendment protection. We oppose government ownership or subsidy of, or funding for, any communications organization. Removal of all of these regulations and practices throughout the communications media would open the way to diversity and innovation. We shall not be satisfied until the First Amendment is expanded to protect full, unconditional freedom of communication.

      as I said before, regulation only stifles progress and innovation.

      I believe in the free market system, but this doesn't mean I'm anti regulation. A free market will never exist without regulation since it will degenerate into monopolies, cartels, and maybe ultimately feudalism. But this emphatically doesn't mean that all regulation is good regulation.

      Exactly!

      I'm kind of surprised that that was the only problem anyone had with what I had to say...

    20. Re:FOIA by zCyl · · Score: 1
      One fear is that some predatory monopolist, a Microsoft of the airwaves, would end up owning all of the spectrum. That won't happen. First, the market value of the spectrum would approach $1 trillion, out of the reach of any individual corporation.
      ...
      as I said before, regulation only stifles progress and innovation.

      You missed a more likely problem. The more likely problem under your/McCullagh's proposal is that a rather limited resource, the useful portions of the spectrum, will be entirely in the control of corporations with deep pockets. This means there can be no low budget independent channels, no public television, no low-cost political discussion outlets over the airwaves, no ham radio operators relaying emergency information, and so forth. The spectrum will be bought up by those who have deep pockets and want to use it for only purposes which are highly profitable, and the remainder will be held onto by speculators waiting for it to go up in value, as it is a limited resource. The freedom of press doesn't work so well when legislation is arranged to specifically enforce the idea that only the rich can use a media.

      The media you have available, then, will not be a matter of choice, but will be determined entirely by the type of broadcasts which are most profitable given the now extremely costly resource. The quality of content is terrible when it only targets the most general of interests, or the most gullible of spenders.

      The secondary, but still annoying side-effect of this would be that hardware, like your TV and radio, will rapidly become obsolete as companies buy up portions of the spectrum that used to work for that device. This would make people unwilling to buy a product unless the spectrum range is guaranteed to remain present by some stable organization. Since you want to eliminate the FCC, the only remaining source for a stable organization of this sort would be a huge corporation, and thus such products will only provide for you the media that one corporation decides you should receive. You would probably have to subscribe to, or rent, a different broadcast TV or decoder for every corporation in the area, if there is even more than one in your area. It wouldn't be very profitable to give away broadcast TV when you can just as easily encrypt it and charge a subscription. So if anyone is left broadcasting unencrypted in a frequency band, you can buy their band from them, encrypt it, demand a subscription for access, and make more money. Hurray for consumers choice being in charge?
  7. For the people... how quaint. by CopaceticOpus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It really aggravates me that decisions keep being made to help a few big companies at the expense of everyone else. It seems obvious that keeping more local control over TV stations is in the viewer's best interest, and yet the decision was made to let these stations get taken over. It seems it's only getting easier and easier for big money to grease the wheels of government.

    The fact that this report was ordered to be destroyed only goes to show that someone's best interests other than the public's are being defended here. How far will this sort of thing go? How much are people going to take before they push back, or are we pretty much screwed to slide down this slope to a place where we have no voice and no control? I sure hope not.

    1. Re:For the people... how quaint. by kfg · · Score: 1

      . . .are we pretty much screwed to slide down this slope to a place where we have no voice and no control? I sure hope not.

      Hope springs infernal.

      KFG

    2. Re:For the people... how quaint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This guy says it better than me, and it is more true now with this Christian Nationalist administration in power.

      http://www.spiritone.com/~gdy52150/fascism.html

    3. Re:For the people... how quaint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You put your finger on it CopaceticOpus, "big money to grease the wheels of government." Our politicians facilitate the ability of big corporations to make their big money and thus to have even more grease with which to buy our coin-operated politicians. Money the politicians then use to get re-elected and repeat the process . . . and all the rest of us get the big red-white-and-blue stiffie up our collective butts.

      As for the slippery slope we find ourselves on . . . well, to get off that would take a few real patriots rather than the collection of whiners we all know who think that by frequenting their favorite blogs they have done their part. These theoretical patriotic individuals, however, seem to have immigrated to a civilized country and are now absent. You should consider the same procedure, while you can.

      BillyDoc

    4. Re:For the people... how quaint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How far will this sort of thing go? How much are people going to take before they push back, or are we pretty much screwed to slide down this slope to a place where we have no voice and no control?"

      Look at history. The answer is, if we are repeating history, "very very far". In other words, when starts to routinely KGB^H^H^HFBI knock on people's doors at night, then maybe 50 years after that.

    5. Re:For the people... how quaint. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate the free market?

  8. good? by ajrs · · Score: 1

    what has the good FCC done for citizens lately, aside from arbitrary and vague obsenity rulings?

    1. Re:good? by Myself · · Score: 1

      Congress made the rules, the FCC is just mandated to enforce them. They're complaint-based, so when a million bible-thumpers write angry letters about a bit of areola, they have no choice to act.

      Your bitch is with congress, or the tight-undies faction of society. Not the FCC.

    2. Re:good? by NoMaster · · Score: 1
      what has the good FCC done for citizens lately, aside from arbitrary and vague obsenity rulings?
      Brought peace?

      (Sorry, I thought you were making a Monty Python reference...)

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
  9. So.. where's the link to these documents! by plasmacutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously.. every other redaction or witholding of important perspective/evidence posted to slashdot as a story prompted people to post links of the supposedly stifled documents.

    So.. who has em!.. where's the link people ; ).. don't let me down!

    --
    VLC FOR MAC IS DYING! IF YOU DEVELOP, PLEASE SAVE IT!!
    1. Re:So.. where's the link to these documents! by waferhead · · Score: 1

      As much as I disagree with the Good Senator on many issues, she has a copy of the report, and the ...
      Sorry... Balls to put it online if they piss her off.

      (Bit of a hippocrite---Her position on handgun control for instance. Vocal anti gun shill... but _She_ packs a concealed weapon...)

    2. Re:So.. where's the link to these documents! by MarkusQ · · Score: 1
      (Bit of a hippocrite---Her position on handgun control for instance. Vocal anti gun shill... but _She_ packs a concealed weapon...)

      Interesting. I'm not sure she's as hardline as you make it sound...as I recall, she voted to let pilots carry. Can you source the claim that she carries a gun?

      --MarkusQ

    3. Re:So.. where's the link to these documents! by waferhead · · Score: 1

      http://www.alphadogweb.com/firearms/Diane_Feinstei n.htm

      Bit of work. 1st hit on google, "diane feinstein gun"

  10. MSNBC Pro-Local Media Ownership??? by UNTJake · · Score: 1

    Seems like this story goes against what MSNBC stands for. I would have expected to see this article on a number of websites, but isn't NBC owned by one of those guys that doesn't like local media ownership?

  11. QUICK! by eno2001 · · Score: 2, Funny

    FCC Head: "Can you get me a line to Bill Clinton"?
    FCC Operator: "Bill Clinton? Why do you want to talk to that no good lying sonovabitch with a cunt for a wife and who likes to get blown by fat ugly chicks who look nothing like Ann Coulter"?
    FCC Head: "Because I hear he knows of good paper shredding services. I've got some hot docs here that need to be completely and totally destroyed before they make it out to the public".
    FCC Operator: "Ahhh... all is clear to me now boss. Sure thing sweetie".
    FCC Head: "By the way, can you head up to my office in fifteen? Remember to dress comfortably and don't forget the donkey".
    FCC Operator: "Sure thing boss! I can't wait! Imagine the nerve of that Clinton asshole fucking that fat pig of a woman in the Oval office. At least we Republicans know it's far better to fuck REAL farm animals".
    FCC Head: "See you in fifteen".

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
    1. Re:QUICK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HAHAHHA HA HAH HHA OMG! its so delightfully Evil!!! mod +50 funny! troll my ass!

    2. Re:QUICK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It made me laugh.

      Not to get overly philosophical but you have a slight inaccuracy

      At least we Republicans know it's far better to fuck REAL farm animals.

      It's not farm animals it's wild animals and they don't fuck them for fun. They kill them for fun (when they aren't shooting each other in the face). They think it's much more moral to kill for fun than to fuck for fun. Then again, most of the country agrees with them which may hold a clue to why they're in power.

  12. Report and response are online by lostboy2 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fascinating.

    The draft report and FCC Chairman Kevin Martin's response to Senator Boxer are linked on the
    FCC's website.

    1. Re:Report and response are online by rabel · · Score: 3, Informative

      Couldn't they print the document directly to .PDF? If not, could they at least clean their scanner and toner drum and maybe even align the pages on the scanner so they come out somewhat straight?

      Is it government policy to author a document using a computer, print it out, then scan it, then convert the scanned image to PDF? I can marginally justify something obstuse like this if we need to capture the signature, but these documents are not signed. Hey, I think I'm the first person to point out a wasteful government policy! Go me!

    2. Re:Report and response are online by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is it government policy to author a document using a computer, print it out, then scan it, then convert the scanned image to PDF?

      It should be for redacted documents (see first page). And probably for any text they want to bury by making it unsearchable. Instead some agencies think they can electronically redact by drawing black rectangles atop non-graphical text, as repeatedly reported on slashdot.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Report and response are online by martinX · · Score: 1

      While certainly not policy or anything, in my job as government web guy I get a lot of PDF scans*. The problem is twofold: lack of Adobe Writer around the place (cost, and the inability of IT to implement a cheaper PDF creator) and scanning photocopiers that include the ability to scan to PDF.

      *I then ask them to send the original doc.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    4. Re:Report and response are online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kevin Martin's response is especially fascinating. It isn't even dated, and it isn't signed. Clearly, it isn't real. It is a very bad fake.

    5. Re:Report and response are online by stonedown · · Score: 1

      The study was only posted after Boxer dropped a ton of whoop-ass on the Chairman of the FCC. She only had the report because a whistleblower from within the FCC provided it to her. Otherwise, we would never have heard that the FCC had found that locally-owned stations produce significantly more local news than do non-locally-owned stations.

  13. Not Really MSNBC by ThatsNotFunny · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure why MSNBC is sourced by the original poster, since it's an Associated Press article.

    --
    "Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
    1. Re:Not Really MSNBC by jagger · · Score: 1

      that was my bad. I followed the story back from 2 blogs to msnbc but then neglected to head back to the AP layer.

  14. Really mature response by these guys by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

    This is simply the slightly more sophisticated version of covering one's ears saying "La la la la I'm not listening I'm not listening". And to think that if they had just ignored the report, it probably would have sat in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard" without anyone taking any notice.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  15. So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

    Anyway the only thing this report could have done is legitimate the use of force by the government against TV stations. Even if the regulation could have some positive impact, this would lead to a regulation trap the government could use to control the media even more. As much as I disaprove of the destroying of the report, it is clearly irresponsible, but I do appreciate that coercive laws won't be passed.
    If people WANT to watch local news there WILL be local news, tehre is no need for a law.

    --
    \u262D = \u5350
    1. Re:So what? by bechthros · · Score: 1

      Oh clearly. Just like people WANT cheap gas, so gas keeps getting cheaper.

      Wait, what?

    2. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It looks like you're posting an anarcho-capitalist complaint on slashdot.
      Would you like to:
        A) Ignore that the market is not free, and has not been for centuries?
        B) Forget that government exists to serve the powerful, including business?
        C) Dismiss the fact that powerful business interests, with the aid of government, erect massive barriers-to-entry to protect themselves from competetion? (See A)
        D) Just shout "GOVERNMENT BAD!" so you don't have to think about where their power really comes from?

        This message has been brought to you by Real Anarchism. Don't be fooled by any other brand!
        See the FAQ at http://flag.blackened.net/ , and bring home some Anarchy today!

    3. Re:So what? by hunterx11 · · Score: 1
      If people WANT to watch local news there WILL be local news, tehre is no need for a law.
      Would you care to substantiate this rather extraordinary claim?
      --
      English is easier said than done.
    4. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      This is indeed an anarcap point of view. Yes the market is not free, yes government interfere with business, yes powerful business interestes - with the aid of government - erect massives barriers-to-entry.... That's why precisely why we need LESS regulations and not more. Although a specific regulation might have a temporary positive effect, it is only legitimating further regulations that will be highjacked by companies with the aid of governments. This is also Tim Berners Lee's stance on net neutrality for example.
      No I don't want D, and I do agree with you on A,B,C and this is precisely why I think this regulation would be dangerous.

      As for anarchism since it is - by definition - not an institution there is no way to describe a society as anarchic or not. It solely defines a set of rule which are believe to be legitimate and leaves people free to enforce those rules. In the end the most efficient society survives and I believe this society respects the right to property.

      Now all of this is becoming waaay out of topic

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    5. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      Sure. If many people want local news, many people will watch ads during local news segments or pay for local news channels, thus there'll be local news because there's a profit to be made. If most people want to see global news and few people want to see local news they will have to pay extra since they use resources that could be used to fulfill the need of more people. It's simple, it's moral.
      What there is on TV reflect what people want, you may very well dislike other people's taste and I sure do but that's the way it is.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    6. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      By the way, the website you linked to says its a memorial to Proudhon... well that's good since Proudhon eventually came to realise that property was freedom and only its power could act as a counterweight to the State.
      I wish you come to the same conclusions as his... only faster.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    7. Re:So what? by NoMaster · · Score: 1
      If many people want local news, many people will watch ads during local news segments or pay for local news channels, thus there'll be local news because there's a profit to be made.
      No, what this leads to is "local" news - centralised news reported by talking heads in a central location, with just enough local content added as a veneer to fool you into thinking it's coming from the old abandoned studios on the other side of town.

      Throw in a few "Brought to you by Chucks Riding School, Delicatessen, and Adhesives Supplies down on the Old Mill Road", and you'll never know the difference. Or so they think...

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    8. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      Either you can tell the difference or you can't. If you can't and it doesn't matter If you can and indeed prefer a genuine local report you stop watching the fake one and let it know to the news channel.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    9. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Although a specific regulation might have a temporary positive effect, it is only legitimating further regulations that will be highjacked by companies with the aid of governments.

        So? A measurable positive effect today outweighs a theoretical secondary effect tomorrow, IMO. I'm not one of those ends-justifies-the-means type anarchists who hopes for everything to get worse as soon as possible; I look at Singapore and see that many people are willing to live under far worse conditions than I am, so I doubt that will help get people on board for much of anything.
        My ultimate goal is to see the end of government and big business. Anything that gets them arguing over whether or not big business is legally obligated to perform the reach-around means more time to spread knowledge of anarchist philosophy and convince people of the need to say "No."

      As for anarchism since it is - by definition - not an institution there is no way to describe a society as anarchic or not.

        I'd disagree with that. Any society which denies coercion is anarchic, and any society that embraces coercion is not. The Amish are anarchic - they have to be, being pacifists. Their recourse for dealing with anti-social behavior is the withdrawal of social interaction -- shunning, which is non-coercive.

    10. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well that's good since Proudhon eventually came to realise that property was freedom

        OH. My. God. Are you actually levelling an Argument from Authority at an anarchist? ... That is the greatest thing I ever heard. I'm so gonna do that next time I'm arguing with some of my anarchist friends, and see if anyone goes in for it!

        Proudhon had some good ideas, but he was never a very precise thinker. Compared with Josiah Warren, he was always a bit sloppy. No anarchist I know treats anarchism as something handed down from on high by the Great Elders, whose words are Law. Arguments about which philosopher is wrong about what are pretty much standard fare.

        What's more, the fact that someone changes their mind late in life doesn't show that they were wrong before, or right later. The cliche of the child of strict religious upbringing who rebels in his youth, only to have that upbringing reassert itself near the end of his life is well known. It's often assumed that when people change their minds later in life, it's because they were wrong, and sometimes that's true. However, a strong case can be made that people who grow older can often become comfortable with the way things are, corrupted by years of moral compromises until they ultimately discard any remnant of idealism they once had, and adopt the adage "I got mine, fuck you!" A lot of young people feel that this describes most old people. A lot of old people feel it doesn't. Being inbetween, I'm on the fence, but as I grow older, I really do see it more often.

        Last, and even worse, you appear to be incorrect in thinking that Proudhon even changed his mind at all -- I dug around in a Proudhon bio today and found no evidence to support that claim.
        You said "he eventually came to realize that property is freedom," which seemed to me a dead giveaway that you're letting someone other than Proudhon tell you what the man thought. Proudhon's work asserted three axioms about property: Property is Theft; Property is Freedom; and Property is Impossible. He held that these three statements were all true simultaneously. This is all down to the difference between the concept of property (supported via coercion) and that of possessions (supported via labor) -- Proudhon often referred to them both as 'property' which could lead to some confusion, not to mention misinterpretation. Like I said, he was a bit sloppy.

    11. Re:So what? by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      If the local news is bought out and there is no local news to watch, how will people watch the local news?

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    12. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with my argument. 1) You seem to agree with X's idea, 2) upon reflecting on his idea, X updated them 3) therefore you might go through the same process.

      If you want a more detailed argument:
      If possession, supported via labor grants property - for example if I make clothes for myself, once I am done, further possession of the product of my work will be property, enforced with legitimate coercion. If you don't recognize this property then possession is useless since it disappears as soon as your work is done and there is no real possession. Every property starts with possession, this is true for land which belongs to whomever combines its work with it. Now would you say someone who once worked on a land may not rent it or sell it since it would become property and not possession? No, this would be as absurd as saying you don't own you clothes anymore at the moment you're done making them! Thus individual property is as natural and legitimate as possession. ./ may not be the best place to discuss that but I have no objection to continuing this discussion elsewhere

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    13. Re:So what? by Arthur+B. · · Score: 1

      In the Amish society if there is anti-social behavior in the first place it means there is coercion. Thus even though it is dealt without coercion it does not mean there is no coercion. It boils down to this: a society doesn't deny or allow coercion... individuals engage in coercion or don't.

      --
      \u262D = \u5350
    14. Re:So what? by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1
      If people WANT to watch local news there WILL be local news, there is no need for a law.

      The free market fairy provides? Companies will only provide local news if it's profitable to do so. Whether people want local news is just one factor in this.

    15. Re:So what? by NoMaster · · Score: 1

      You've got my point wrong; or maybe I didn't really make it properly.

      You're right, for the most part: it doesn't really matter - except that, each time they do it, they're lying to you. Every night, day after day, week after week, year after year, they're playing viewers for suckers. Hardly the way to build a trust relationship is it? And yet, that's exactly what networks claim they want - for you, the loyal viewer, to trust them, the benevolent and responsible provider. Why else do they often build their advertising around that very fact?

      Then there's the few times when it does matter. We've had a run of cases here recently where important local, or even statewide, events have been ignored, or gotten half-arsed - or, in a couple of cases, totally wrong - coverage, purely because they've almost no local capacity left, preferring to wing it from the other end of the country.

      And, sometimes, you have no choice. If all the radio & TV stations are networked and headquarted elsewhere, and all the local papers are subsidiaries of national (or even international) organisations, then you don't have choice at all - not even the choice to stop watching/reading...

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
  16. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Zardus · · Score: 3, Funny

    See... I have mod points, but for the life of me I can't find "-1, Retarded" in the available mods....

    --
    You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
  17. So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Who says we're surprised? Or even disappointed, strictly speaking, since Bush's job is to keep expectations low.

    Slashdot isn't "Surprises for Nerds". But living down to abyssmal expectations when handling telecomm policy is important news. Especially when the Republican Congress is facing losing reelection in only 7 weeks, on November 7, 2006. It's your chance to surprise them for a change.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Moderation -1
          100% Flamebait

      I quote Bush saying it's his job to keep expectations low. I point out that "news" isn't necessarily "surprises". I point out that the news here is Bush living down to low expectations.

      Then I point out that we can do something about it in 7 weeks by voting.

      Which part do the TrollMods mod down as "Flamebait"? Of course it's the part about voting, which scares the hell out of them. All these Republican TrollMods have is power abuse. No surprises, not even disappointing, not really news.

      Take it away from their elected versions Tuesday, November 7.

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    2. Re:So? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      But living down to abyssmal expectations when handling telecomm policy is important news. Especially when the Republican Congress is facing losing reelection in only 7 weeks, on November 7, 2006. It's your chance to surprise them for a change.

      A question: if Republicans lose that election, then do you think that whoever wins them will be any different ? I'm not trying to flamebait, I'm honestly curious on whether Americans (I'm not one) think that elections make a difference.

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    3. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes. They were different from Republicans when they had power before. They're different now, even without power. There's no reason, except baseless Republican apologies, to think they're as bad as Republicans.

      Your .sig says "I want a Social Security safety net. You are free to become a stain on life's floor if you don't.". Social Security was created by President Roosevelt, a Democrat, after his Republican predecessors presided over the creation and beginning of the Great Depression that made its necessity obvious. Gore campaigned in 2000 on keeping it safe, in a "lockbox". Bush took over and started to try to sell it off, while robbing it to fund his $45-65 TRILLION debt. Social Security is just one basic, important system that Democrats can be trusted with, while Republicans will steal it, are stealing it.

      I remember what the country was like before Republicans controlled the government. It was better. Right now, it's bad in a way few would have imagined before. Unless maybe they were Republicans.

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    4. Re:So? by GeneralAntilles · · Score: 1

      No, Democrats and Republicans are the same. Republicans just lie to you about being conservative, then spend like the Democrats, while Democrats tell you exactly what they're going to do (tax the hell out of everybody and then spend it all). Both parties shit and piss all over the Constitution, and the members of both parties should be shot for treason.

    5. Re:So? by Dun+Malg · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Social Security is just one basic, important system that Democrats can be trusted with, while Republicans will steal it, are stealing it.
      Bullcrap. The Social Security "trust fund" has contained nothing but a big fat IOU from congress from the very beginning. Democrats have had a hand in "stealing" it just as much as Republicans. Claiming that Democrats can be "trusted with" it shows how little you understand the way the federal government handles deficit spending, and how long deficit spending has been going on. Face facts, man. They're all a bunch of bastards up there.
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    6. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a difference between "bad" and "worse". That stuff about Democrats taxing and spending is BS, when compared with Republicans. Reagan and Bush Sr/Jr have each spent more than every predecessor combined, with the intervening Clinton lowering spending. Reagan and Bush Sr raised taxes more than everyone else combined. Bush Jr has cheated by not even raising taxes as much as he's spent, creating a $45-65 TRILLION debt, which is even worse. While Clinton paid down the debt more than anyone ever before.

      So since only Bush and Cheney are staring at being executed for treason, and then only hanged, we're faced with a different choice in a couple of months. Do you want to unacceptably bad Republicans, or the acceptably not so great Democrats? The real choice is obvious.

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    7. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      That's the kind of crap that Bush was spewing when he said Social Security was "just an IOU". The entire Federal budget is an IOU, since we spend more than we make. But those Social Security checks that millions of Americans depend on aren't "just" an IOU. They're real checks that we depend on. Democrats haven't ever "stolen" it in a way that threatened the system. Bush wants to hand it to Republican stockbrokers, which will destroy it. Democrats in charge of the fund kept it going the way it's supposed to, while Republicans are doing everything (and even things they can't) to destroy it.

      There are bastards, like Democrats we can live with, and there are evil mofos, like Republicans, who we can't.

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    8. Re:So? by mspohr · · Score: 1
      You're right that the funding for Social Security has been dodgy from the start (it's basically a pyramid scheme where new people coming into the system pay for the people at the end... as long as you have lots of new people, everything works).

      However, regarding "stealing" social security, I think Bush did try to do this last year and got shut down by AARP and everyone else with half a brain. He wanted to "privatize" SS and what this means is that all of the nice people on Wall Street (i.e. Republican campaign donors) would get our money and of course they would do a great job and we would end up with what was left over after their "commissions" and "fees" and "brother in law didn't do to well in that business venture he set up after all of the research he did in the Caymans".

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    9. Re:So? by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In this discussion, which is political in nature, I agree with you. But there is abuse in the anti-Bush camp as well. I'll be reading comments on a purely technical article, and some jackass political spammer will somehow weave an anti-Bush message into, like, Ruby on Rails! Then some other rabid anti-Bush nut comes in and mods the spammer up! WTF? It makes the whole moderation system sort of a joke. Presumably the meta-moderation would take care of it in the end, but it doesn't seem to.

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    10. Re:So? by Hamilton+Lovecraft · · Score: 1, Funny

      Absymal Ruby performance is Bush's fault. Everyone knows that. He ignored a briefing about it.

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    11. Re:So? by Plaid+Phantom · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Do you want to unacceptably bad Republicans, or the acceptably not so great Democrats?
      If that's the Democrats message, no wonder they lost two elections in a row to Bush. Sorry, but I don't accept not-so-great. I don't accept "better". Show me a good president, not a "better" one. Anyone can be "better". We need "good", and that's all I'm going to accept.
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    12. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think the problem is that people have Bush hatred coming out of our ears. Because Rove has got the system figured out to the point where our usual election system for consensus and letting off steam (such as it is) is totally inadequate. In many countries, the level of anger at the government, even reflected in Bush's relatively high (at about 35% "approval") would see the the officials resigning, or even riots in the streets. Especially with such high stakes, like the Iraq War and Osama bin Missing. In that context, keeping discussions on-topic is very difficult, when so many are so preoccupied with matters so much weightier than Ruby on Rails.

      It's not professional, but Slashdot isn't a professional board. It's not even a geek board - it's a nerd board, and nerds are known for socially inappropriate behavior, like blurting out the truth.

      As for metamoderation, it's a joke. I post those rebuttals to moderations so metamod'ers will have more context to judge whether the mod is un/fair. But I don't see any real dampening. It winds up being just a battle of my post frequency karma vs their team of downmod points. That seems to at least allow my free speech to fill the vacuum of their supression. Which seems more American, anyway, or at least familiar to me, a New Yorker.

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    13. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not a Democrat, and that's not their message. Of course their message is "Democrats are great!" You want a good president, you got Clinton. Not great, but good, and better than "not bad". Probably the best since Truman, or maybe Kennedy (Democrats), who were very good or great, depending on what you value.

      Unfortunately, our elections don't let us choose "the good one", just "the better" (or "not the worse"). That's one reason why I often talk about Instant Runoff Voting (IRV), or "proportional voting". And why I often say how the parties (politicspeak for "conspiracies") are the worst defect in our system. Until we can vote in a way where everyone's votes count, not just the winners, we don't really have democracy.

      But we have something that's acceptably not so great, and we can use it to make it better, even good. Saying "they're all the same", when they're not, just none good enough, makes it impossible to use what we've got to get what we want.

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    14. Re:So? by runningduck · · Score: 1, Funny

      Clinton ignored RoR his entire 8 years in office. He is to blame!

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    15. Re:So? by schwaang · · Score: 1
      Claiming that Democrats can be "trusted with" it shows how little you understand the way the federal government handles deficit spending, and how long deficit spending has been going on. Face facts, man. They're all a bunch of bastards up there.


      You would have to be deliberately ignorant of recent history to make that claim. Look at what Clinton did with the deficit during his years. Then look at what the Republican controlled Congress and White House have done under G.W. Now try to tell me with a straight face that there's no difference on deficit spending between the two parties.

      Also, does the word "lockbox" ring any kind of a bell?
    16. Re:So? by eldepeche · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Yeah, but everyone knows that Reagan funded ruby back in the 80s.

    17. Re:So? by darqchild · · Score: 1

      It's not a matter of "Better" it's a matter of "Best Available".

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    18. Re:So? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Damn, only 7 weeks....not enough time for that new port security bill (that Congress just passed) to take effect [Transnational Agreement + NAFTA Superhighway + DHS-Maritime Infrastructure Recovery Program + Carlyle Group purchase of Trenstar + Blackwater USA practising for port terrorist strikes = Holy Crap!!!]

    19. Re:So? by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      I remember what the country was like before Republicans controlled the government.

      So do I. I remember Dan Rostenkowski and Lyndon Baines Johnson. Even if I can't spell their names. I remember George Wallace with his dogs, tear gas, botons, and water cannons. And I remember that it was the voters who believed in civils rights, not the politicians. That they happened to be democrats is pure cooincidence. And now, in their hysterical blindness the voters could care less. Freedom is a dirty word now...on both sides of the aisle. Both are simply trying to vote their way to riches. And those same democrats sent 58,000 Americans and 2 million Vietnamese to their death. It took the cooperation of a democratic congress to let Nixon continue the trend. They are the same. They feed from the same money trough. Big money always goes to both parties. The democrats openly act like republicans to get their votes. They are sheep in wolf's clothing. And it is truly delusional to think that the man standing in front of the camera actually runs the show. You will not see improvement until the people who vote want improvement. Those who continue to maintain the status quo will rule the day as long as they maintain their majority status. We have the government we want. No matter how much people hate the republicans, I still was spooked that Leiberman got so close to the white house. He, a democrat, played a very large role in the writing of the patriot act, one of the most despicable laws of our times. And Eisenhower was probably the last actually "good" president. To think that Clinton was even close is just plain nuts.

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    20. Re:So? by GungaDan · · Score: 1

      "They're all a bunch of bastards up there"

      Which is why it's critical for the nation to have 2 roughly-equally-empowered opposing camps of bastards expending much of their energies on screwing each other instead of you and me.

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    21. Re:So? by crossconnects · · Score: 1

      Dems aren't ANY better than republicans when it comes to money!

      They are both crooked.

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    22. Re:So? by SpectreHiro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You want a good president, you got Clinton. Not great, but good, and better than "not bad". Probably the best since Truman, or maybe Kennedy (Democrats), who were very good or great, depending on what you value.

      The hell you say? He got a blow job!!! That's against god's will. It says so in the Bible... Like, Luke 1:69 or something.

      Will no one think of the children?!

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    23. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I modded you down because you are wrong. When I moderate, I try to be fair and balanced, so the drivel that stupid liberals like you put out does not deserve to be seen.

    24. Re:So? by unitron · · Score: 1
      Social Security is no more a pyramid scheme than any other insurance policy. It's just that the board of directors which oversees the investment of the premiums is, in this case (unlike insurance companies) composed of short-sighted self-serving idiots, i.e., congresscritters.

      You're quite correct, however, that the Republican "privatization" conspiracy is nothing more than a plot to let Wall Street loot it by churning accounts and taking it all in commissions.

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    25. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I note that the fortune at the bottom of the page in which I post this comment says "To teach is to learn twice. -- Joseph Joubert "

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    26. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I know you are, but what am I?
      I know you are, but what am I?
      I know you are, but what am I?

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    27. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      If I read your post even a little carefully, I can see that you have crafted the perfect antitroll.

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    28. Re:So? by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And then you go and start dropping Karl Rove's name as well. John Murtha and Barbara Boxer would be proud.

      The truth is that the assault on our sensibilities comes from all sides. The Republican leadership uses the FUD of terrorism to scare us into supporting draconian suspensions of civil rights, while the Democratic leadership uses FUD about everything else to call our attention away from terrorism. Neither side is telling the truth.

      With the GOP having control of the largest political target in the nation (the presidency, of course), the Democrats try to indoctrinate their supporters with the idea that Bush is at fault for everything that goes wrong. We won't get our government back in shape until our politicians are accountable for their actions. As long as they continue not to earn the blame for the bad things they do, and continue to get blamed for the bad things that other people do, things will never improve.

      So instead of blaming Bush for everything every time you get the chance, do some research and put the blame where it's due. The FCC has needed a shakeup for many, many years now (going back before this administration), not just in personnel, but also in philosophy. As long as fingers keep getting pointed at Bush, real change will never happen.

    29. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks, but I was hoping you'd give one of your slapstick reactions, possibly calling me Anonymous O'Riley-factor Coward or something so I could continue to make these people look ridiculous.

      Ah, well, maybe next time.

    30. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How have Democrats distracted us from terrorism even one tiny bit? If anything, they're too pussy to call bullshit on all the fake terrorism the Republicans create as "reality" for their media manipulation.

      All your crap about how Democrats are somehow pulling my strings, the strings of the media and the government - what are you talking about? Every charge I make against Bush is specific, substantiated, and true. You think Karl Rove is some kind of coatcheck girl at the White House? He's the stringpuller, the election gamer. What kind of insanity compels you to spit the name of John Murtha in response, except your own indoctrination by rightwing talkradio? Because nothing else has the power to make that kind of association. Certainly not anything to do with Murtha.

      Down to the FCC. The current FCC has been shaken up since Bush's administration - very much for the worse. That shakeup by the new administration is exactly how the FCC is run. It's Bush's FCC that's shredding the antimonopoly report we're talking about, because it contradicts the handover Bush's FCC ordered under predictions contrary to the facts in the shredded document.

      Come back with some facts showing that any of what you spewed has any basis in fact. Because all you just threw at the page is just an elaborate "it's not Bush's fault, because there's someone else in the phonebook to blame".

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    31. Re:So? by azhrei_fje · · Score: 1
      Unfortunately, our elections don't let us choose "the good one", just "the better" (or "not the worse").

      Hmm. There are people I know who I wish didn't have the right to vote. Or at least, there are people who I wish did not exercise their right to vote.

      While it might seem crass or crude to say such things, the reality is that many people don't understand the political system in which they live. Do you want such people voting for president? I certainly don't.

      The original list of people who could vote were narrowed down to those who fit the following criteria: (1) male, (2) a land owner, and (3) between of the ages of 18 and 44 (do I have the age range correct?). In fact, it wasn't viewed as a "right" so much as a "responsibility". A responsibility to your family, a responsibility to your neighbor, and a responsibility to your country! Those who were eligible to vote and didn't -- and didn't have a good reason -- were often ostracized from the community, sometimes for a long period of time.

      (I am not a historian so I could very likely have the above synopsis all wrong. If I do, please correct me! I like to be as accurate as possible and I would appreciate learning from you if you know better than I!)

      Until we can vote in a way where everyone's votes count, not just the winners, we don't really have democracy.

      But then, we don't have a democracy in America, we have a republic. :)

    32. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Antitrolls weigh exactly the same as trolls, but spin in the opposite direction. That makes them smell different.

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    33. Re:So? by NoMaster · · Score: 3, Informative
      Your .sig says "I want a Social Security safety net. You are free to become a stain on life's floor if you don't.". Social Security was created by President Roosevelt, a Democrat, after his Republican predecessors presided over the creation and beginning of the Great Depression that made its necessity obvious.
      You missed the bit where the poster said he wasn't an American. SS is not an American invention.

      Government-sponsored disability / unemployment schemes predate Roosevelt by ... well, lots! In the UK, social security arguably dates back to the reform of the Poor Laws in 1834. The first state-sponsored scheme dates back to Germany in 1883, under Otto von Bismark. France introduced one in 1906. The Brits introduced a national contributatory scheme in 1911.

      As you say, Roosevelt introduced SS to the USA in the 1930s as part of his "new Deal" programs - which, initially, only protected unionised industrial workers. When social security really took off was after WWII - mostly as a sop to placate unemployed returned servicemen; you don't really want a few million trained, experienced, and armed militia getting upset with you...

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    34. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      We have a constitutional democratic republic (if we can keep it). If you understand our kind of democracy, you understand that the main benefit of it is producing the consent of the governed, by which government derives its right to exist. Everyone must vote. What we lose in quality we make up in quantity - quantity of people included in the system, who won't split off to an ungovernable mass that threatens everyone's rights. That's democracy.

      The gradual opening of America's voting entitlement to nearly universal adult inclusion reflects the gradual increase in power of the gradually included classes of people. That shows how our system started as a compromise with an aristocratic class of white male landowners, but grew into a broader compromise and greater stability. The more those neighbors vote, the more stable our country is, modifying itself to reflect itself. That's the Constitution at work.

      The place for smart people with more power is in the representative jobs. That means the three branches of government, which need smart Congressmembers, executives and justices. Who set policies that affect billions of people, for decades or centuries. Those people need the kind of intelligence that is a model of the real world and the people who live in it. A republic, whose representatives of the public must represent the public in interests, though smart enough to represent only our best interests as often as possible. That's our republic.

      If we can keep it. We can elect "Republicans" in contradictary name only, who misrepresent us. We can discard the Constitution as these Republicans continually strive to do, through violation and debased amendments like flagburning and homophobia. But that is the bad work of others. The part where the people can directly throw away our republic is by ignoring our role of the "demo" in "democracy". When we don't vote, when we stop each other from voting, when we don't help each other vote, we have already discarded the democracy. Mere constitutional republics all over the world front for tyranny, like the Shah's Iran and so many others ruled for and by some people, not all of the people.

      We've already lost so much of our Constitutional democratic republic. The most irreparable damage is to throw away the democracy from which the Constitution and the representatives derive their power.

      We must keep it, and each other.

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    35. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      As "social security" it was not invented by FDR (or his policy staff). As "Social Security", the specific program by name, it certainly was.

      The universal application to all American labor, whether or not formally organized, was also a sensible way to introduce some of the socialism Americans wanted after WWII (like most people did), without leaving it as a draw to only unions, which would compete with the government.

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    36. Re:So? by Dachannien · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Michael Powell was first appointed to the FCC board of commissioners by Clinton, and only later promoted to chair the commission by Bush. Powell continued to serve through 2005, and supported the measure to increase media ownership that's being discussed here. The contradictory report was completed in 2004, and it is likely (though not confirmed in media reports yet) that the actions taken to attempt to destroy the report happened around that time. Powell resigned in 2005 and was replaced as Chairman by Kevin Martin, who, according to Wikipedia (though no source was cited, unfortunately), has taken steps to purge Powell's staff since then.

      It should also be noted that many Republicans were opposed to the media ownership rules, including Trent Lott.

      Any finger-pointing on this issue should probably go toward Powell. Martin is actually much closer to the Bush administration, having worked on his campaign, and the purges indicate that any relationship between Powell's oversight of this report and the Bush administration is tenuous if even existent.

      If you have substantial contradicting information, I'd love to read it.

      BTW - I don't listen to right-wing talk radio. I'm just right-of-center, and have no love for the current administration or the current GOP leadership in Congress. The warrantless wiretapping was the last straw for me, and I'm hoping for some moderation to emerge from the 2008 fiasco. If McCain and Lieberman were to run together, I'd be tempted to help out with the campaign.

      I believe that truth is the most important factor in politics, and I believe that your unwavering finger-pointing at Bush regardless of the issue and regardless of fault harms your efforts to get the blame to stick for the things he has done. It's reminiscent of MoveOn.org taking a position on network neutrality. They took an issue which should have been neutral and made it highly partisan, because they also can't stop pointing the finger (which finger is debatable) at Bush for every bad thing in the dictionary. They harm their own cause, because their vitriol makes it hard for moderates to get at the truth, and therefore scares them away from important issues that would otherwise transcend partisan boundaries.

    37. Re:So? by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      If you mean original list of people who could vote in America, the age range was anyone over 21, and you left out the part about being white (though if you weren't white, you probably didn't have land anyway). In Athens however, you had to be a male citizen (going back generations on both sides of the family, unless an exclusion was voted in) who had completed a certain level of military training (meaning that you almost had to be over at least 20). Also, you could have rights suspended, often for debt to the city (which was inheritable, thus screwing over you and your children). Oddly, there weren't any effective property requirements (some were on the books, but not enforced).

    38. Re:So? by plasmacutter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the problem is there are no partisan boundaries anymore.

      you have the Remocrats/Dempublicans.. and the cabal that's working for bush..

      Now the cabal working for and with bush is universally reviled by all worldwide with the exception of the most extremely right americans, and they're reviled for reasons which even tribes buried deep in the amazon know about by now.

      as for the DemPublicans...

      there are no substantial differences from republicans and democrats otherwise.

      they both prop up their own equally manipulative sets of moneyed interests, they both support the DMCA, the both vote for war against nations when those nations refuse to give us what resources we want when we want them, they both support the corporate undermining of national sovreignty (and through that consumer and worker rights) through GATT treaties and the WTO, and they both support the current joke that is the american media, because a media with substantive reporting is the enemy to all political beltway insiders.

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    39. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See? That's exactly the sort of creative language I enjoy seeing. That's why I troll you every now and then. It makes me laugh.

      And BTW, I'm not really the one who modded you down.

    40. Re:So? by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      I quote Bush saying it's his job to keep expectations low. I point out that "news" isn't necessarily "surprises". I point out that the news here is Bush living down to low expectations. Then I point out that we can do something about it in 7 weeks by voting. Which part do the TrollMods mod down as "Flamebait"?

      Try "all of it."

      George Bush is completely unrelated to the FCC skullduggery in question. You might as well have started beating drums and chanting "Bush lied, people died."

      News != surprise is a "duh" point, and misses that the grandparent was commenting on the seemingly incompetent nature of the FCC and not the definition of "news."

      Again, Bush is still entirely unrelated to the article. Living down to "low expectations" is debatable, since ~60% of the country seems to have higher expectations for him.

      The FCC is not and never was up for election, and I have yet to see a candidate running on the "FCC reform" plank.

      In short, you can't get much more "flamebait" than provocative, frothing-at-the-mouth rhetoric completely unrelated to the article. (Calling people who disagree with you "Republican TrollMods" doesn't help, either.) Maybe you got modded insightful for tying "some news is unsurprising" to "there are elections in 7 weeks."

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    41. Re:So? by Znork · · Score: 1

      "The real choice is obvious."

      Yes. The citizens needs to kick them both out, scrap all first-past-post systems and get proportional representation.

      Any two party system is one party away from a dictatorship.

      Heck, the current US senates leading party has the direct support of no more than 17% of eligible voters. Ex-dictator parties in recently democratic states often get support in those ranges.

      Proportional representation has its problems, but at least the ruling coalitions tend to represent a far higher percentage of the voter base. And it's a lot harder to buy half a dozen parties than it is to buy two.

    42. Re:So? by surprise_audit · · Score: 1
      you don't really want a few million trained, experienced, and armed militia getting upset with you...

      Now *there's* a message that needs to be painted on a lot of walls around the White House...

    43. Re:So? by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Dems aren't ANY better than republicans when it comes to money!

      Okay, out of the last four presidents, three had the largest defecits in history, while the fourth not only balanced the budget, but had a surplus. Care to guess their party affiliations?

    44. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      All ACs weigh exactly the same. Try saying something provocative with an ID for a change. It's fun and educational.

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    45. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Funny how you don't think that Powell's FCC wrote the report and that Martin is shredding it along with his "purge". Especially since Martin changed the rules under the projections contradicted by this report. And funny how you don't match Bush's appointment of Martin as chief and Clinton's of Powell as a mere member with the differences between their FCCs. Some how "it's Clinton's fault".

      That's rooted in some truth. Powell's term chairing the FCC was defined by the Republican Congress whose laws it had to work. Enhanced by Clinton's own right-of-center corporate policies, and his "seeking the middle" even as it was dragged further rightwards by extreme rightwing activism.

      You are a victim of the "Overton Window". It's a political technique used to great effect mainly by rightist activists. People like Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh (among many, like James Dobson and Fred Phelps) demand extreme positions that serve not to deliver those positions in reality. Rather they just drag the limited window of public acceptance across the entire political spectrum further towards their positions. It's the political mechanics of the "straw man" argument in action, fake arguments designed only to make alternatives look better than what is being argued.

      Your example of MoveOn.org and Net Neutrality is related. Telcos, cablecos and other monopolistic ISPs are paying Congress and Hollywood/MadisonAve millions to legislate destroying the "level playing field" of the Internet. MoveOn.org, which survives only on that openness, takes a position to keep it open. The dispute starts out extremely unbalanced, as Net Neutrality is in the center of the possibilities (100% free, mandatory, universal Internet use is the other extreme from the ISPs' position). MoveOn.org arrived after Net Neutrality was already threatened (even doomed, if left on course) by Republicans like Senator Ted Stevens and the rest of his Congressional controlling majority. Somehow MoveOn.org is demonized for making the already-partisan debate "partisan" by opposing the target of their standard mission, which was now threatening their existence. It's related to the Overton Window because the debate is reduced to some fake "balance" between the center and the extreme right, dragging it far right of center. No one of consequence in America even takes the far left position, because even the center is demonized as being "far left".

      The fact is that Bush's Republican Party has polarized the country as much as in the depths of the Vietnam War, rolling towards Civil War proportions. When Democrats and their allies respond within that polarized context they were thrust into, they are framed as the polarizers. When they get "vitriolic" about things like the Iraq War, letting Osama run loose, $45 TRILLION debts, illegal eavesdropping, torture, they're somehow the ones making it hard to get the truth.

      I suggest you look closer at the partisan boundaries created by the Republican Party. Including John McCain, now dropping like a hot potato his "moderate" positions not only with theocrats, but also with torturers. While Lieberman's crass abuse of Connecticut Democrats and his Democrat brand reveals a man interested only in power, ready to discard his constituents and allies whenever he wants more. "Bipartisan" through collaboration with an unacceptable policy. Those two Republicans (despite their pandering to get the "moderate" crumbs left over by the Party) are betrayers, even of the "core values" they most stand for. If you're that distracted by them as "moderate", when they'd be obvious rightwingers without the Overton Window to distort the scene, then you need to open the window and look directly at these awful fakes.

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    46. Re:So? by mspohr · · Score: 1
      Insurance companies are required to have premiums and reserves sufficient to cover all claims from their policies. In the case of pensions or annuities they must also have sufficient reserves.

      Social Security does not have to meet these requirements and does not have enough in reserves to pay out all of its promised benefits. It relies on future payments into SS to meet its obligations and even then comes up short in projections. Insurance companies are not allowed to use projections of future premium payments to meet current obligations and would be prosecuted for running a pyramid scheme if they ran this type of business.

      BTW, the current Social Security surplus is used for current government expenses such as the war in Iraq and SS holds an IOU for the amount. The politicians are truly being dishonest here.

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    47. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      George Bush appointed the Chair of the FCC which is shredding the report, which gave away the media control the report indicts. He's been president with a Republican Congress for over 6 years - of course he's responsible for the policies of his appointees and lockstep partisans, especially when they're identical to his own policies. It's not "Flamebait" to call a crook a crook.

      News != surprise is a "duh" point ignored by the original post, but certainly worth mentioning other than in sarcasm, which I did. Hardly "Flamebait" to assert the nonsarcastic truth.

      Bush said he creates low expectations to succeed, and is meeting them. Quoting him and backing him up isn't "Flamebait".

      I never said the FCC is up for election, but throwing out the Republicans who legislate in cooperation with their Bush FCC is certainly a way to get them to stop selling us out and shredding the truth. Saying that we're heading into an election to change the problem we're discussing isn't "Flamebait".

      I got mod'ed "Flamebait" by exactly the kind of Republican worshippers as you, except they're too scared to even post with a userID. They're Republicans, they're TrollMod'ing me to produce nothing useful in the discussion but the predictable response of suppressing my post. While you try to dismiss Bush's responsibility for his government by the flimsiest assertions. You Republican apologists are coming out of the woodwork with "they're both to blame" now that it's undeniable that Republicans are to blame for these messes. Some of you TrollMod, some of you come out with loads of crap like the one you just posted.

      All you've got is blather about how my reasonable post is "foaming at the mouth". It's "Flamebait" to you the same way Iraq was begging for invasion. Peddle your fake coverups for Bush's Republicans while you can. You've only got less than 7 weeks now to make it count.

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    48. Re:So? by sxeraverx · · Score: 1

      Instant Runoff elections would be great! Unfortunately, the fact is that we do have parties. George Washington advised against them, but now that the two are ingrained as strongly as they are in our system, we can't really get rid of them. And IRV won't work while we still have a two-party system. Adding a third party won't work too well. We've tried that in the past, and it didn't work. Dissolving the parties altogether won't work either--who would dissolve something that puts him or her in a position of power? Besides, IRV would help in a minority of cases when we have an independent candidate running, but then, only when the vote is close. Also, between all the problems surrounding ballots, like in Florida, and the problems surrounding voting machines (them not being open source, etc.), and the method of choosing a president once the votes are in being in the Constitution, we'd have an incredibly hard time changing to IRV, even if we had a many-party system.

      At the expense of sounding like a Democrat (which, as it turns out, I guess I might be), our voting system isn't the best in the world, but it's the only one that will work for us at this point in time. I agree that it should be fixed; it's just that realistically, it won't be.

    49. Re:So? by otterpop81 · · Score: 1

      The only reason Clinton had a budget surplus is because the Republican congress dragged him kicking and screaming into going along with it. Do you remember the government shutdowns of 1995 and 1996? The President doesn't make the budget, congress does, and for 6 of 8 years, Bill Clinton had a Republican congress. In addition, the "$45-65 TRILLION debt" that you talk about isn't _all_ Bush's fault. We've been in debt since FDR, through Republican and Democratic Presidents, but you know who held Congress for _most_ of that time (remember, Congress, who makes the budget?), Democrats.

      An earlier post talks about the missing Bin Laden. If you Bush-haters want to talk about Bin Laden, let's talk about how the Clinton Administration had multiple opportunities to take out Bin Laden and did _nothing_. The first google result for "Bin Laden Clinton" gives this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/ . Note that MSNBC is not exactly your "right-wing conspiracy" news outlet.

      You have to give the President a lot of credit for doing what's right in the war (both of them) and not giving a damn about what the anti-Bush media says about it. What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right. For the most part, he knows what is right and he's doing it. Sure, I don't agree with all of it, (like the Medicare part D cluster), but being tough on Islamic Facism is the right thing. Sure, the administration "misunderestimated" the cost and the difficulty of Iraq, but that doesn't mean that it was wrong to go there in the first place. Let's remember properly if we can. Congress voted overwhelmingly to go into Iraq. Overwhelmingly means Democrats and Republicans alike voted to go to war. The US Constitution grants congress the power to go to war. Because of this, the whole "The war is unconstitutional" crap needs to stop, too. It isn't Bush's war, it's congress's. In addition, Bush didn't lie. The entire world believed Saddam to have WMD. We only know that once he finally let us in to inspect that he didn't have them _anymore_. Remember how he stalled every single time the UN inspectors wanted to inspect anything? Why would he stall like that if not to move weapons out? We know he had them at some point; he used them on his own people.

      I'm tired of all the doubletalk from the Democrats. They just want to be on both sides of every issue. They voted to go to war, and now they want to cut and run before the job is done there. Doesn't being part of removing a cruel dictator from power and making Iraq a free and democratically elected state make you proud to be an American? People over there aren't oppressed anymore. Remember Saddam's sons? Remember the mass graves and the rape rooms? Doesn't that sound to you like an oppressed people? It does to me. Iraq is much better off now, and the United States "unilaterally" made that happen. There's a lot of good happening over there, and the Democrats hate the idea that anything good should happen while Republicans are in charge. Fortunately for them, the major media outlets are on their side, reporting only the bad about the war and not the good things that are happening over there.

      Alan.

    50. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      IRV would encourage lots of candidates outside the parties to run. The popular "throwing away your vote" threat would disappear. Once the duopoly is broken, the parties will also finally react to "coopt the positions" of these alternate candidates. So while IRV might keep the same parties in power, it would change them to represent a much broader spectrum of positions. Which is what I care about.

      Of course there's a chicken/egg problem - the parties won't give up their duopoly on the choices. But American politics does often change structure after a crisis. We're in a crisis now. The recent Lieberman/Lamont Democratic primary in Connecticut gave value for even powerful incumbents to IRV. And for primaries, where power is kept "in the family" is the place to start. IRV has already got momentum.

      That's how politics works. It's a statistical game of incremental changes in one scope that lead to tipping points which push sudden changes into other, usually larger, scopes. That's why the essential work of politics is keeping the discussions going, flipping every little opportunity until it builds a wave that washes the whole town clean.

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    51. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Deduce from the Republican Congress under both Clinton and Bush Jr, and the differences in the debt between the two presidents.

      The president makes the budget, Congress passes it. Funny how you Republicans claim the president can fix the economy when you're running for that office, but disclaim all responsibility when you've blown it with the office.

      I don't give Bush any credit for lying us into Iraq, turning it into a neverending bloodbath, while letting us lose Afghanistan and leave bin Laden to roam free. I blame him for that, like I blame him for the $45 TRILLION debt he's given us. I blame him for letting Osama go at Tora Bora, and then again two weeks ago while his Pakistani allies surrendered N Waziristan to Osama and his Taliban, and Bush backed them up. And I blame him for the Republican Drug Push called "Medicare Part D" that you'd like to pretend is some kind of exception.

      Your post is out of some delusional 2002. "The entire world believed Saddam to have WMD"? How about the thousands of Americans in the streets saying he didn't, the dozens of Democratic Congressmembers, the people in the CIA and State Department saying we don't believe it?

      Everything you're prattling is off the corporate TV shows. "Islamic fascism"? Iraq making me "proud to be an American"? Iraq is better off? We're better off? Only on your Republican TV shows. You vidiots have disgraced America with every touch of your fool fingers. That O'Reilly jingoism isn't fooling many anymore. Don't make me sick by wagging it around me.

      I should have just repeated your insane statement about Iraq that "people over there aren't oppressed any more", and laughed in your face. You and the rest of your dwindling zombie Bushworshipper army make me ashamed to be "American", so long as that term describes you too.

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    52. Re:So? by otterpop81 · · Score: 1
      You make a lot of strong comments, but don't back anything up, so let me help.

      I said, "The entire world believed Saddam to have WMD." I thought it common knowledge, but maybe I should have cited it anyway. How about UN Resolution 1441. According to the Wiki, it was passed Unanimously by the UN. I translate that roughly to mean "the entire world."

      You talk about the economy, but I wasn't really talking about the overall economy at all. I was talking about the deficit spending, which you had no response to, and I can't blame you. The facts are simple, the Republican congress balanced the budget. But since you brought up the economy, here's a brief history. Clinton had a great economy when he was President. There's one problem though. The dot-com bubble. During his later years, Amazon.com was worth more than the entire airline industry. That was an artificial high: An artificially high economy. The dot-com bubble burst _before_ Clinton left office. The economy was heading downward during the last few months of Clinton. Then Bush took office. The economy still was heading downward. Then 9/11 hit and the economy tanked. But.... Since then it's come back. It's come back since the 9/11 low. Do you realize the nation is at full employment and has been since 2004? You don't hear that in the news every day, do you. So if you want to talk about the economy, I'll just say that both Clinton and W have had great economies, but look at what Clinton had going for him, and look what Bush had working against him.

      Again with the "Bush Lying" crap. See UN Resolution 1441. If you have some argument based on that I would truly like to hear it.

      Again with the "$45 TRILLION debt he's given us." He didn't give us the _whole_ 45 Trillion. I stated that in my previous post.

      About "Letting Osama go at Tora Bora," I think the phrase you meant to say was that Bin Laden _escaped_ from Tora Bora. You make it sound like we had him in handcuffs and we let him go. That's not the case. Bill Clinton, on the other hand, had Clinton on a silver platter multiple times, and didn't take him. Here's one link, you can find more.

      I'd like to respond to the Pakistan thing, but I simply don't have time as I have to be somewhere.

      Alan.

    53. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      I backed it all up. You're the one making merely asserted lies.

      "I'd like to respond to the Pakistan thing, but I simply don't have time as I have to be somewhere."

      How convenient.

      Enough typing at you. You're the kool-aid man; you'll never face reality. Go drink yourself.

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    54. Re:So? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      Abuse!!!! You sound as if this is a simple political discussion having no life-threathening or life-enhancing value to American society and the rest of the planet. I would like to remind you that over the past 6 years thousands upon thousands of hapless Iraqis have been murdered, while American military personnel have died needlessly (needlessly, that is, unless one is psychopathic or sociopathic in nature and earning tremendous sums of money at Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater USA, Fluor, the Carlyle Group, the Blackstone Group, Lockheed Martin, etc., etc.

      We are at the precipice of economic and national/societal destruction - the damage done by this criminal gang far exceeds any ordinary levels of political corruption. Society has been radically restructured, as has the US government, or what passes anymore for the government, and the US military. We are constantly treated to cries of "more torture, more torture" when the American society should not even be discussing such a thing!!! The institutions of education, medicine and community are being attacked at every turn by the destroyers of our society. The middle class is on a downward spiral of disappearance while foreign slavery is encouraged and promoted by the corporate and political elites in America!

      Have you no awareness of what is transpiring??? Have you no shame????? Have you no self-respect??? Your access to the Internet is now even in jeopardy, with the first step being slower connect times, to the final step of access only allowed to the elites.

      For heaven's sake, catch a clue, dude.....

    55. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Your post is most superior, good citizen!

      In Madrid, three-quarters of that city's population marched in protest in their country's activity in the Iraqi War (actually invasion and occupation). In France last year, the population took to the streets throughout the country to protest economic "reforms" - make that globalization scams and ruses. Perhaps the population in America is now so dumbed down, now so uneducated, now so witless --- and afraid of their own shadows --- that they fear protesting anything anymore.

      In Germany at the start of World War II, Hitler at least had to execute over 60 generals. In America, our military's general officers must surely be the biggest cowards I've ever witnessed. Admiral Moorer would never have stood for such bullshit going on today. (This will be my final post, if people haven't figured out what's going on by this time.....)

    56. Re:So? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Well said....on 9/15/06, Dick Cheney proclaimed: "Americans don't have the stomach for this fight." Funny, I've never heard of that Wyoming Wussy ever being in any fight --- certainly never wearing the uniform of the United States military. These are the biggest cowards America has ever been exposed to -- soft fleshy credits....

    57. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1, Troll

      I think the main factor in the USA is that Bush is financing his crimes by sending us $45-69 TRILLION into debt while cutting taxes. That makes it a lot harder for Americans to see how these crimes are screwing us, as opposed to just Iraqis, or people who volunteered for the National Guard or military because they needed the benefits.

      Germans were suffering though a postwar depression in the 1920s, then even worse in the 1930s. While that pit of despair spawned a lot of the "nothing to lose, everything to gain" attitude, it also kept a lot of Germans connected to reality. Americans have little reality but "reality TV". And we're trained to believe that our political system lets us solve differences without revolutions, while most of Europe is new at that game.

      I'm really not enjoying the USA learning the lessons of fascism that we just watched during the mid 20th Century.

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    58. Re:So? by zacronos · · Score: 1

      I would say it's not a matter of "Best Available", but "Best Option the Two-Party System + Corporate Sponsorship is Willing to Offer".

    59. Re:So? by Z34107 · · Score: 1

      First of all, notice how I never said I supported Bush or was a Republican in any way, shape, or form. All I said was that what you said about Bush was completely unrelated to the article.

      What you said:

      Who says we're surprised? Or even disappointed, strictly speaking, since Bush's job is to keep expectations low [google.com]. Slashdot isn't "Surprises for Nerds". But living down to abyssmal expectations when handling telecomm policy is important news. Especially when the Republican Congress is facing losing reelection in only 7 weeks, on November 7, 2006. It's your chance to surprise them for a change.

      Notice that nowhere do you say that Bush appointed the chair of the FCC, or that replacing the Republican Congress could change policy at the FCC (which are valid points.)

      You do make an asinine link to one of the many pathetic things our President has said. That's more related to his reading list than the FCC, but whatever.

      You do urge people to throw out Republicans in their upcoming "losing" elections. Warming up, but mere Republican bashing unless you suggest something "insightful", like "maybe Democrats would manage the FCC better."

      And again, if anyone who disagrees with you is a "Republican Trollmod", then, well, you're a witch. And a communist.

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    60. Re:So? by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      You accused me of trying to blame Clinton for the report shredding. I didn't blame Clinton at all. I blamed Powell. I think that's a key problem with your perspective - you don't seem to grasp that oftentimes, the chief executive isn't actually calling the shots. Yes, when bad decisions get made by the heads of various government departments, the President (whoever it may be at the time) often doesn't expend political capital correcting the situation, which is unfortunate, but it's not the same thing.

      Take Hurricane Katrina for example. It wasn't Bush's job to micromanage the disaster and rescue efforts immediately following the storm. That's what Michael Brown was supposed to do, but Brown sucked total ass and attached himself to the problems that Ray Nagin and Kathleen Blanco would otherwise have been responsible for. Bush's error was in taking too long to see/admit that Michael Brown was doing such a bad job. Eventually, Brown got fired, but only after the cost of ignoring the political pressure grew greater than the political capital expended in firing Brown.

      Now, if Bush ignores the need to fix things at FEMA, then he becomes culpable the next time a disaster strikes and FEMA's response is once again unacceptable. But the left insists upon blaming Bush now, because the intense public division surrounding Bush makes it an easy way to conceal Nagin's and Blanco's mismanagement.

      Anyway, arguing with you about this is probably a waste of time, because you (a) accuse me of holding Bush blameless for everything that he actually does, while you yourself (b) hold the Democrats blameless for everything that they do. What I've actually been saying here the whole time is to blame Bush for the stuff he has done, and stop trying to pin everything else under the sun on him as well.

    61. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Let me guess... you're a "Libertarian". Riiiight.

      I said "the Republican Congress is facing losing reelection in only 7 weeks, on November 7, 2006". You can't see that that means "replacing the Republican Congress could change policy at the FCC". I quote Bush talking about how lowering expecations is his job, but of course that applies only to his reading list - even though he has repeated that policy whenever he though he could get away with calling it a "joke", and anyone watching can see he lives it.

      If I go so far as to say people should vote for Democrats instead of Republicans, then of course I'm a "Flamebaiter" or a "Troll"... or "Offtopic", or "Overrated", according to the anonymous moderators who suppress my posts when it offends their ever vigilant defense of our pathetically weak, yet destructive, president.

      You're a Republican apologist. You go out of your way to twist into defending Bush, and into attacking me because I didn't post what you would post. You go ahead and say people should vote for Democrats instead of Republicans, instead of making the simple point that the FCC is the product of Republican rule, led by Bush who's in charge of Republicans, the FCC, and practically the entire government.

      I point out that "news" need not be surprising, and you've got a problem with that, too. Sure you're not a Republican. Maybe you're a witch or a communist. You've got the basic problems with logic that qualify you.

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    62. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Bush restructured FEMA into Homeland Security, his biggest claim to fame. He appointed Chertoff. Brown was a Republican crony exactly like hundreds, thousands in Bush's administration.

      Bush is responsible for all that. That's how being the boss works. Bush worshippers respond to Bush's stupidity by saying "but he picks smart people to work for him", then say it's not Bush's fault when those people are stupid or worse.

      It's absolutely consistent that you would say that Bush isn't also responsible for the Katrina disaster, chiefly so. I'm surprised only that you didn't claim that "no one anticipated that the levees would fail" to protect Bush. And I'm not surprised that you cough up that same old Republican gibberish about me "blaming everything wrong in the world on Bush". I make specific charges, where Bush is responsible. Your hyperbolic straw man is Republican 101. As is trying to switch the argument to "Democrats aren't blameless in everything".

      Of course it's a waste of time arguing like that with me. But it's not a waste arguing with you. Because reality is on my side. Eventually the facts will sink in, even to stubborn deniers like you. For every American's sake, I hope you get it before much more damage is done. Especially if you can open your ears before November 7.

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    63. Re:So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    64. Re:So? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Under Clinton, we had a Republican controlled Congress that forced him to balance the budget.

      By the time Bush came in, the Repubs had been in power long enough to get greedy, and they agreed with Bush.

      Chances are, if the Dems win Congress in 2006, spending will slow down for the next two years, but it will skyrocket if they have Congress & the Presidency in 2008.

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    65. Re:So? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Moderation 0
          50% Troll
          50% Interesting

      TrollMods aren't interested in our destroyed economy. Unless maybe they're getting a check.

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    66. Re:So? by schwaang · · Score: 1

      Sorry, no. Congress did not force Clinton to balance the budget. His own cabinet (Bentsen and Rubin) convinced him that unless they kept Wall Street happy by doing what Greenspan has consistently recommended (cut that deficit), then they would not have the tax revenue available to invest in social programs.

      Read Robert Reich's memoir (called something like "Locked in the Cabinet"), and better yet "The Agenda" by Bob Woodward.

      But you are right that the Rebublican Congress got greedier under Bush, and they did away with bugetary constraints like pay-go rules, over the lengthly objections of Democrats.

    67. Re:So? by kiatoa · · Score: 1

      Nice sum up. I'd say that there is little hope of substantial change either. With plurality voting and corportate $$ the current system will always trend to the two party non-choice we face now. With the economy now based on Housing and Medical industries and real wages for most of us substantially down but not down far enough to cause revolution it seems that the US is on a collision course with "has been" status.

      Economy: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_39 /b4002001.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_busines sweek+exclusives

      For housing you'll have to do your own research there are hundreds of articles, try google with "housing bubble" for a start.

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  18. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Kesch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is not the "free market" vs "regulation" problem you are framing it as. Although I generally lean towards libertarian, I do not agree with your argument in this case. The study in question showed that PRIVATE ownership of stations by local networks provided a better level of news coverage as opposed to PRIVATE ownership of stations by huge media corporations. The only regulation in question here is an attempt to loosen anti-monopoly measures dictating how many stations a media corp can own. The study in question supposedly provides hard evidence showing that there is no benefit to consumers in such an action.
    .

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  19. What a shame that now... by the_rajah · · Score: 1

    this document is going to be lost **forever**...

    On thousands of slashdotter's hard drives around the world.

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  20. they're so cute when they get worked up by mcmonkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Boxer's office said if she does not receive adequate answers to her questions, she will push for an investigation by the FCC inspector general.

    Isn't she precious. Gonna push for an investigation. How cute.

    Listen, hon, the horse left that barn behind a long time ago. Congress has made itself pretty much irrelevant. President breaks the law? They just pass a new law making whatever it was legal. They threaten to actually do their jobs and enforce some oversight? President claims he can do whatever he wants anyway. (When there was some talk about the USA PATRIOT act not getting renewed, Bush just came right out and said he could do whatever he wanted anyway as C and C. Rather than challenge that assertion, they just passed the law.)

    And they gave away the store long ago with these agencies. Agencies like the FCC enact and enforce regulations without all that pesky oversight and due process they have to deal with down in congress. Better yet, agency heads don't have to worry about elections. Regulations are so much easier than laws.

    What are they gonna do about it now? What did they do when all those energy executives lied to them? What did they do when all those baseball players lied to them? Mrs. Boxer and her colleagues are gonna do whatever they think they need to do to get reelected. Nothing more. They're certainly not going to do anything to anyone at the FCC.

    1. Re:they're so cute when they get worked up by Bassman59 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Listen, hon, the horse left that barn behind a long time ago. Congress has made itself pretty much irrelevant.

      Recall that the Republican-controlled Senate and House made itself irrelevant under a Republican president--so blame the Republicans. Contrast that to how the Republican Senate and House acted during the Clinton adminstration.

    2. Re:they're so cute when they get worked up by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      What did they do when all those baseball players lied to them?
      Seriously, there's one reason congress has become marginalized. What the fuck business do they have grilling baseball players about steroids, or gambling, or panty raids, or whatever else baseball players do? Next up, congressional hearings on whether the Guess Your Weight guy at the carnival is using a rigged scale. Fuck, man, I can't decide who's the bigger bunch of idiots: them, for stuff like that; or us, for electing those bozos.

      Don't even get me started on Barbara Boxer. If you've ever heard her try to speak extemporaneously, you realize how much of her position speeches are scripted by policy wonks. When she was first elected she occasionally made off the cuff remarks about various governmental things and really illustrated what a dunce she is. Fortunately for her, her staff got her trained pretty quickly to not say anything they didn't coach her to say. I could almost swear the only reason she [got elected|gets re-elected] is because people think she was that smart, articulate lady who was mayor of San Francisco (Diane Feinstein, who is our other senator).
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    3. Re:they're so cute when they get worked up by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1
      he could do whatever he wanted anyway as C and C
      Just a friendly note: assuming you meant "C and C" to mean "Commander and Chief", it's actually Commander in Chief, so you might want to make sure to get that right next time you are trying to argue about politics. That's a pretty huge mistake. I am on your side; I'm just trying to make sure people on my side don't make silly mistakes that will allow them to be easily torn apart by more experienced debators, who will jump on a simple mistake as proof that their opponent has no idea what they are talking about.
    4. Re:they're so cute when they get worked up by mcmonkey · · Score: 1
      Just a friendly note: assuming you meant "C and C" to mean "Commander and Chief", it's actually Commander in Chief

      D'oh! I should have caught that.

  21. England Prevails! by ArchAbaddon · · Score: 1

    ... err America Prevails!

    1. Re:England Prevails! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People should not be afraid of their governments...

    2. Re:England Prevails! by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1
      People should not be afraid of their governments...

      Wrong, you should be so terribly afraid of your goverment that your unwilling to give them any power without great thought of what the consiquences will be. Like the fear of rabid dogs, the first time they try to bite you, you terminate them.

    3. Re:England Prevails! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nigger

  22. Jamming With the FCC by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The FCC's job is entirely based on the need for a central registry for radio broadcasters, so sufficiently powerful signals don't interfere with each other. Along the way that leverage in denying access to the "public airwaves" turned into government control of broadcasters. Along that way the requirements to "serve the public good" were dropped. These days in favor of "protecting the propaganda of the government".

    New phased array tech lets multiple transmitters share a frequency, but are distinguished by their spatial separation. So the FCC's central mission is coming to an end. A lot of their worst moves to sell off any public benefit and protection, and to merely regulate content on "obscenity" (or other culture war buzzwords) is mere desperate grabs for power.

    I hope that phased array stations arrive well before the FCC can help the corporate broadcast cartel lock out entry to the media sphere. If we can make it past that dropping sword, we might be fairly home free.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Jamming With the FCC by ClamIAm · · Score: 1

      The FCC's job is entirely based on the need for a central registry for radio broadcasters, so sufficiently powerful signals don't interfere with each other. Along the way that leverage in denying access to the "public airwaves" turned into government control of broadcasters.

      Exactly. If any agency is to be regulating who can own what, it should be the Federal Trade Commission, the purpose of which is to eliminate monopolistic practices.

    2. Re:Jamming With the FCC by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Damn straight. The FTC also seems less tainted by telco, software and other comms monopolists than is the FCC. Maybe because the FCC is doing that job. Or maybe because I just don't know enough about the FTC.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    3. Re:Jamming With the FCC by w9wi · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to see a link on this "phased array tech". Phased arrays have been around for a long time - the first one used in broadcasting was installed in Florida back in 1932. They do allow multiple transmitters to share a frequency, but there are limits.

      You still can't have two stations covering the same place on the same frequency. To use a phased array to make two stations possible on the same frequency, each station has to sacrifice some of its coverage area.

      The technology has made thousands of additional AM stations and a handful of additional FM and TV outlets possible. It doesn't come anywhere near creating unlimited spectrum though.

  23. Amber Alerts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I happened to be reading this in one tab while reading something a friend wrote about Amber Alerts in another tab and it struck me that non-local media will never give the proper coverage to missing persons, abducted children, or escaped convict type news as it is local by nature.

  24. Re:The FCC was right to do so by kilfarsnar · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "...any wise observer of history will be aware that market forces will recognize this value and favor production of these types of information accordingly."

    If you were not serious, please disregard the rest of this response. But that's just hilarious! Why don't you compare the ratings of Nova and American Idol and see if your theory holds up? Wise observers of history would more likely note that unregulated free markets tend towards monopoly and exploitation.

    You note that news, science, and educational programming in general are of immense value, and yet you call the privileging of them "arbitrary". Market forces do not recognize value; they recognize profit. Better products certainly do not always win in the marketplace. Really, the "free market" does not exist outside of government regulation. Without governments and the rules, regulatons and structure they bring, all we have is a primitive barter system. That is the only true free market; trading milk for eggs.

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  25. Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by adavies42 · · Score: 0, Troll

    I love how the average /.er is against the FCC when they're censoring Howard Stern or Janet Jackson, but in favor of their cracking down on "big business".

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
    1. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One issue is speech, another is abuse .

      can you see the difference?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check a dictionary, because it doesn't seem you know the meaning of "hypocrisy."

      It's not hypocrisy to criticize someone's bad actions and applaud his good actions. How you could think this is beyond me, unless you have the mindset that there are only good guys and bad guys, the good guys always doing good and the bad guys always doing bad. This really has no relation to how the world works.

    3. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, what you are seeing is that the average Slashdotter is against censorship in either the form of the government imposing fines on a television station for content with human skin shown or the government not preventing media ownership consolidation. Media ownership consolidation has the effect of censoring viewpoints the consolidating entity does not want shown.

      There is a reason over 75% of Americans believed (incorrectly) that there was a connection between 9/11 and Saddam Hussein at the time Bush pushed for his elective invasion of Iraq. Media consolidation is a very bad thing for Americans and the world. The rules concerning public airwaves that were in effect prior to Ronald Reagan should be re-instated. The public trust should not be allowed to be breeched by rich old men who do not want people to know what is really going on in the world nor what their government is doing without telling them and in violation of their own laws.

      It is time for George Bush to be held accountable and the lying ways of the Republican party to be ended.

    4. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same with doctor! Always stitching up victims of knife fights and accidents but when they cut you open, they send an even bigger bill! Hypocrisy rules the world my friend, hand in hand with numbing stupidity.

    5. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by zCyl · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I love how the average /.er is against the FCC when they're censoring Howard Stern or Janet Jackson, but in favor of their cracking down on "big business".

      I think most Slashdotters believe in freedom and diversity of information. When the government censors culture, this restricts the freedom and diversity of information. When a small handful of big businesses own all the major media outlets, this also restricts the freedom and diversity of information.
    6. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by pla · · Score: 1

      I love how the average /.er is against the FCC when they're censoring Howard Stern or Janet Jackson, but in favor of their cracking down on "big business".

      I love how the average Slashdot troll doesn't understand that the FCC exists for the SOLE purpose of spectrum allocation, not censorship of content.

      I also love how some folks fail to remember that the FCC causes the problem of media monopolies in the first place by imposing such high barriers to entry that only megacorps can even dream of get anything more useful than a ham license.

      Allocation of spectrum once served the public good, both for safety and in the sense of fairly sharing a limited resource. We now, however, have the tech to target individual active receivers, with stations "broad"casting in the tens of watts rather than in megawatts, thus making the FCC entirely irrelevant.

      When anyone who can afford the hardware can throw up a phased array and fire up their own talk-radio station, I will agree with your point. Until then, yes, I have a problem with both media ownership rules and the response to Janet's nipple.

    7. Re:Hypocrisy wrt Government Interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      big business screws over the citizens, howard stern is mildly offensive. there is no hypocrisy

  26. Re:The FCC was right to do so by kidtwist · · Score: 1

    Ironically, you're argument sounds like the Stalinist-approach to truth. You're saying that the FCC is right to supress a taxpayer-funded study if the study's conclusions run counter to the current administrations policies. When evidence meets ideology, then ideology should win? I'm not saying the study was correct, but I wouldn't throw it out before I've read it.

  27. Who controls the present controls the past. by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It exists!" [Winston Smith] cried.

    "No," said O'Brien.

    He stepped across the room. There was a memory hole in the opposite wall. O'Brien lifted the grating. Unseen, the frail slip of paper was whirling away on the current of warm air; it was vanishing in a flash of flame. O'Brien turned away from the wall.

    "Ashes," he said. "Not even identifiable ashes. Dust. It does not exist. It never existed."

    "But it did exist! It does exist! It exists in memory. I remember it. You remember it."

    "I do not remember it," said O'Brien.

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    1. Re:Who controls the present controls the past. by paitre · · Score: 0

      And since most people aren't going to get the reference.

      Ray Bradbury.
      Fahrenheit 451

      If you haven't read it, go out and read it. Now.

    2. Re:Who controls the present controls the past. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Orwell, _1984_ actually...

  28. Re:The FCC was right to do so by adavies42 · · Score: 1

    It's not the government's place to "optimize" the economy. If you don't get that, please stop pretending to even "lean" toward libertarian.

    --
    Media that can be recorded and distributed can be recorded and distributed.
    -kfg
  29. Duh, duh, duh.... by Hap76 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you want something to go away, you don't jump up and down saying, "Burn this immediately! IMMEDIATELY!", because then everyone knows that this is important and one of your employees/minions/servants might save it anyway, either because you're evil and they want to screw you or because they think that you're shortsighted enough to want it gone now and back later and so they want to save you from yourself. Duh.

    Of course, this is an argument for DRM - if this report had been DRMd (competently), there would probably be very few people with both the knowledge of the report and with the ability to circumvent the DRM so that if someone had wanted it gone, it likely would have been.

    That's a good thing, right? [crickets chirping]

  30. ObStarWars by jdigriz · · Score: 1

    Wipe them out. All of them...

  31. Re:The FCC was right to do so by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    I think the problem is that your definition of "libertarian" is "social Darwinist nutjob," while the rest of us define it as "normal person who just wants to be left the fuck alone."

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  32. In proper Newspeak: by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Minitrue report "Local Media Ownership" doubleplusungood, rectify fullwise 2006.09.14: memoryhole.

    RS

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  33. Re:let's get this out of the way: by Analogy+Man · · Score: 2

    Surely a populace informed by a free press with a diversity of editorial leadership will provide aid and comfort to the enemy!

    --
    When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
  34. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Floody · · Score: 4, Insightful
    An optimally efficient economy maximizes wealth creation and benefits all citizens to a much greater extent than having a group of bureaucrats decide which types of data are more important than others, and regulating commerce along those lines. The latter arrangement can only lead the type of social planning that ruined so many Eastern European economies.
    See, this is where libertarianism drifts away from rationality. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for as much laissez faire as possible, especially when it comes to Big Brother staying out of people's private lives (excepting depriving someone else of their freedoms, including coercion and fraud). But this libertarian nonsense about the perfection of a Free Market economy is just silly.

    Libertarians are quick to point out that monopolies are almost always government mandated. Well, duh. Of course they are. It's no accident either.

    When corporations reach a considerable size, it only makes sense that the best way to ensure continued growth and desired stock performance is to manipulate some (or all) of public policy. Sure, great product ought to be enough, but what if something goes wrong? What if a competitor suddenly pulls the rug out from underneath you? Why not hedge your bets? Sound business planning really; a little insurance to cover those "unforseens."

    To those at the very top of the market ladder (corporations, not people), fascism is a utopia, as long as its fascism they are in control of (or at least benefit from). It's perfect; reduces corporate risk to practically nothing. Fortunately, there are other pressures which, so far, in the US, have kept it relatively under control. But to many it seems like its slipping every day.

    It's a new century. We don't need a nanny state to keep an eye on things.


    See, that's just the thing. You're afraid of Big Brother being a little too big and a little too controlling. What you have to understand is the megacorps want to be the nanny state, not so they can have some sort of Comic Book Evil totalitarian control over you, but to make sure you only buy products from them or their partners.
  35. Of course, until it was found by a rapid Mac user by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    looking for his OS fix.

  36. Who owns that report by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2

    That report was paid for with taxpayer money, which means they have no right to destroy it. Where is the ACLU the one time I might actually want them?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  37. Looks like the First Church of Censorship strikes again...

    --
    "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
  38. Why does this administration hate research? by Serveert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From global warming and EPA report cutting.. To fmr Treasury Paul O'Neil, who after showing that income taxes would need to double in order to support the aging baby boomers, was rewarded by the report being axed before he was fire err before he resigned.

    This has got to be the most hand over the eyes administration in history. History books will not be kind. Especially when taxes must be raised in the future to cover the huge US debt or when there is only one entity controling all media. At some people it will be obvious what a terrible administration this is, right now it's not so clear.

    --
    2 years and no mod points. Join reddit. Because openness is good.
    1. Re:Why does this administration hate research? by xwin · · Score: 1

      Administration replies:
      You speak like a terrorist lover. Why do you love terrorists?

    2. Re:Why does this administration hate research? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      This has got to be the most hand over the eyes administration in history. History books will not be kind.

      You are joking, right??? There ain't going to be any history books to record this stuff, dude! We are long past the point of no return, both economically-speaking and climatologically-speaking. (Please Rush Limbaugh fans and Viagra-industry employees - refrain from responding...) No raising of the taxes will ever compensate for the fascist/neocons emptying out the US Treasury. THEY know exactly what they are doing, but since they actually stand for anything -- nor do they believe in anything -- only those fundamentalist raptureheads believe the Busheviks believe in any mumbo-jumbo. THEY will get everything they can in this life as they believe in NO other....

  39. bush wants us to watch national news?!?! by dumbfounder · · Score: 1

    why would Bush want us watching the national news, it bashes him every day! One would think that if he was behind this he would have everyone watching local news so we can be ignorant about the world outside our little towns

  40. That's silly... (joke) by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's silly, we all know that few owners would help local t.v. coverage. Just like having fewer political parties helps the people. Imagine if we had one person own all the news networks. That would be like having one political party, and we all know how easy it is to vote when we have no choices. We just listen to what they say and blindly believe everything they say.

  41. Re:let's get this out of the way: by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

    Interesting that Michael Powell of "Hang those responsible for the wardrobe malfunction think of the religious rights children" fame was chairman behind all this, then suddenly stepped down and allowed the whole thing to be shoved under the carpet. Wonder what concessions he got in exchange.

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
  42. The government make decisions for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're both the same thing. In one case, someone in the government is deciding that Howard Stern or Janet is offensive. In the other case, someone in the government decides to kill a report telling me that its to my advantage to have locally on TV stations.

    I don't know about you, but I don't like people in the Government deciding too much about airwaves "we" own.

  43. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's nothing suprising about him sounding like a Stalinist. He's posting from an anarcho-capitalist (U.S. Libertarian party) point of view. Which is to say, he's just a Marxist on opposite day.
      (The ancaps are sometimes called 'vulgar libertarians' by other anarchists, as their arguments almost always devolve to little more than simple defenses of those currently powerful and wealthy. "Them pore ole CEOs need all th' help they can git!")
      They have defined themselves over the years primarily in their opposition to Marxism. (IOW, statist socialism) In duelling with these monsters, they've come to look, act, and think a lot like them.
      Where Marxism has a central, fatal flaw -- to wit: Marxism holds that the cure for monopolies is monopoly -- the ancap position does nothing more than invert the direction of this inconsistency.

      Both hold that some people are prone to abuse power over others, and yet hold that the answer is to invest even greater power in some different people, who will somehow be beyond corruption, despite all evidence to the contrary. The difference is that Marxists claim that unlike big business, the state would not abuse its power, since it is the 'engine of the people', whereas the ancaps claim that unlike the state, big business will not abuse its power, since it is 'ruled by the invisible hand.' Both are articles of faith, and both are easily dismissed by a perusal of actual history.

      Of course, the Marxists used to have an excuse for believing this, since back before 1916 no-one had ever created such a state of affairs. The ancaps have no such excuse; Tennessee Ernie Ford wasn't lamenting the government when he sang "Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go; I owe my soul to the company store." The dangers of unfettered monopoly that arises from capitalism are known, even though they're mostly far off in the past.

      At his point, the ancaps will claim that monopoly rises from government interference in the market, and they're partly right -- the government interferes in the market because it's being used by powerful business interests to stifle competition. In the absence of 'government', those interests will still exist, and they would use any other means available. Government, in this case, is just a farming out of coercive violence to a third party. History shows plainly that capitalism can simply roll its own when it's necessary. (See the assassination of union organizers at Coca-Cola bottling plants in Colombia for a recent example. Death squads are pretty easy to hire, and highest bidder wins.)

      The ancaps offer only the freedom to pick your master, nothing more - just as most governments do. I.E., you can vote for the Reach-around party, or the No Reach-around party. Sure, you could vote for the No-reach-around Lube-rtarians, but what for? Why, you'd be throwing your vote away, ha, ha! (And still getting sodomized.)

      Those interested in a consistent, workable solution to such massive imbalances of power might be interested to read the works of Josiah Warren. He lays out the foundations of Individualism/Mutualism, which is a pro-free-market, anti-capitalist form of anarchism which promotes small owner-run businesses and localized, cooperative communities in place of massive monopolies and federal governments, respectively.

  44. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When corporations reach a considerable size, it only makes sense that the best way to ensure continued growth and desired stock performance is to manipulate some (or all) of public policy

    Corporations are only able to lobby for a particular public policy because there is a belief among the public that we, as a society, need some form of public policy. The libertarian position is that we do not need a public policy; we need property rights.

    In other words, just as you can acquire land ownership by simply using an unowned piece of land, you should be able to acquire spectrum ownership by using an unowned part of the spectrum. As long as courts ensure that property rights are justly and fairly acquired, the free market will work like a charm. If there is any sort of clash between two parties, they can simply take their case to court.

    Before you reply with all the problems you see with this approach, think about how we would handle those problems when it comes to land. If you honestly can't find an analogous situation in land-based property rights, then go ahead and type a reply.

    Once we moved to a property rights-based system, no company would be able to influence public policy, because there would not be any public policy to influence.

  45. Re:The FCC was right to do so by mrbooze · · Score: 3, Funny
    To be sure, such categores of information as "news", "science", and "educational programming" are of immense, value, but any wise observer of history will be aware that market forces will recognize this value and favor production of these types of information accordingly.

    Seriously, what color is the sky on your planet?
  46. Re:The FCC was right to do so by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

    The guy who pushes crap into the parts of the spectrum that belong to his competitors, or, as an extension, the whole frackin spectrum.

    --
    Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  47. Doc Ruby is a confiscationalist LEEBRUL!!! by Travoltus · · Score: 1

    Why should I be forced to base my retirement on social security when I can gamble in the stock market instead?

    Look at all the Enron employees who got rich. I'd rather be them. Wouldn't you?

    [republican parody off]

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    1. Re:Doc Ruby is a confiscationalist LEEBRUL!!! by CommandNotFound · · Score: 1

      Why should I be forced to base my retirement on social security when I can gamble in the stock market instead?

      I get the joke, and I have to laugh, because if not I'll think of the 7% FICA tax I've spent over the years plus the 7% my employers have been matching to FICA, and cry. (FICA is the social security fund, I forget what it stands for) I can't imagine how good retirement would be if I could put 14% in a mattress, much less put it in investments much safer than the stock market. My last Social Security statement estimated my benefits would be around $1200/month, which means I better have my house paid off and buy an old car so I can afford to keep the lights on. What a ripoff, considering the additional 12% I'm having to also put into my 401k to be able to *really* retire will pay out much more than that. I'm pretty sure a safety net for the poor and unfortunate --which we should provide-- cannot possibly cost this much. (sigh)

    2. Re:Doc Ruby is a confiscationalist LEEBRUL!!! by unitron · · Score: 1
      "Why should I be forced to base my retirement on social security when I can gamble in the stock market instead?"

      I realise that you're being satirical, but a lot of people don't understand that Social Security isn't a retirement program, it's death insurance.

      Life insurance provides money if you fail to be alive and earning money when you're supposed to be. Death insurance kicks in if you're alive and not earning money due to age or disability. That's why it infuriates me to hear people refer to "payroll taxes" to indicate monies paid in to the Social Security system. They're actually insurance premiums.

      That said, it would be nice if those premiums could be invested in something other than bonds issued by the federal government which can just print more money with which to redeem them, thus watering down the value of each dollar. I'd like to see them put into tax-free state and municipals (i.e., not commercial ventures as is the case with the stock market) that could finance badly needed infrastructure and which would have to be repaid with real money.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    3. Re:Doc Ruby is a confiscationalist LEEBRUL!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What a ripoff, considering the additional 12% I'm having to also put into my 401k to be able to *really* retire will pay out much more than that.

      Assuming your 401(k) doesn't get whacked by a stock market correction. but the parent poster needs to realize, if the stock market really collapses, even people on "guaranteed" incomes like social security, will get taken down, too. if stocks go splat, the 401k's drown first, then fixed income is next as inflation skyrockets. real estate investors get eaten alive by runaway alligators as land values plummet (because people are fleeing this way and that) and mortgages default on a massive scale, etc. etc. in other words a 401(k) that's rapidly diminishing in value means economic doom for everyone.
  48. So what you are saying... by mrraven · · Score: 1

    ...is capitalism makes you a dumbass who rejects education. Thanks for playing and I'll be sure to tell all my earth crunchy co-op friends that sentiment was straight from the capitalist shills mouth.

    --
    Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
  49. Re:The FCC was right to do so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well looking at it from a land perspective... define use.

    or from the spectrum side, is it use if I broadcast a test signal?

    so in reality to use the lebertarian perspective you have to have some defined use. If you don't use said property in hte leagal manner does that mean that you don't own it?

    just wondering.

  50. Big Brother by tubapro12 · · Score: 1

    Watch carefully, maybe we'll get another lesson in newspeak out of these quotes. I hear the words "democracy" and "freedom" are due to be removed from the dictionary next year...

    1. Re:Big Brother by JAFSlashdotter · · Score: 1
      Watch carefully, maybe we'll get another lesson in newspeak out of these quotes. I hear the words "democracy" and "freedom" are due to be removed from the dictionary next year...
      They won't be removed, but the definitions will be altered. In the 22 years since 1984, Big Brother discovered that it's easier to own the definition than remove the word.
      --
      We apologize for the preceding message. All those responsible have been sacked.
  51. Re:The FCC was right to do so by denobug · · Score: 1
    Telecommunciation business needs to be regulated. Sure there are lots of industries that needs to be left along to become more competitive, and the market forces innovatin (however difficult it seems at times). Just look at how Google is rising to the top and how Microsoft is losing it competitive edges even on its own turf. Anyone with a common sense would agree, however that their complete downfall is at least quite a few years away, let along the chance of never).

    Telecommunication, however, has been using BOTH its mega sizes to increase operating efficiency and generating more profits per customers. It is using its leverages inside the government to make it easier for them to push people around legally, yet they adhere to very little regulations (business conduct wise) and can get away easily with the agencies they are answering to.

    This is the very essense of "necessity of monopoly". Given their size and scales of influence they should be recognized of their size and power, and then regulate them because of their monopoly power.

    I would normally leaning against government intervening business. Telecomm industires however has become such that it requires stiff regulations, period, to protect cusumer's interest. Without more accountability in their business, we, the individual consumers, lose.

  52. Can you run that by me again? by argent · · Score: 1

    Where exactly is the FCC 'censoring big business' by limiting the number of TV stations they can own?

    For that matter, isn't corporate personhood the result of government interference in the first place?

  53. Thoughts from history by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    In some places it was even more restrictive than that. I was reading a book recently about the history of New York State (The Wedding of the Waters, which I stronly recommend to anyone interested in both the history of the U.S. and of technology), and there were fairly onerous restrictions on eligibility to vote, well into the 19th century. These restrictions could include not only race, age, and gender, but also that a person own property debt free. As an example, I think I remember reading that between 1820 and 1840, for a black person to be eligible to vote in NY State (remember also that at this time, the Electoral College electors were chosen by the state Legislature, not by direct election), they had to own a debt-free freehold worth at least 100 pounds sterling; unfortunately the texts of the NY State Constitutional Conventions from those periods (when the rule would have been enacted, in the 1820s and removed in the 1840s) doesn't seem to be online.

    At any rate, what struck me in reading this, was how little we today appreciate the outright corruption and occasionally even violence that was pervasive in our political system in the past. To say that people "hate Bush" today may be true, but it shows a lack of perspective to suggest that these feelings are somehow historically unique. Similarly, the feeling that an executive body has overstepped its authority and encroached on civil liberties is hardly new; these crises have happened to our Republic before, and in my opinion in far more severe ways.

    I don't think that history is going to be overly kind to our current President, but neither I think will it regard him with quite the same amount of cataclysmic rhetoric that's frequently spouted today.

    If there is one single truth that seems to be the common thread through American politics, it is that the political system can ignore the will of the public for a time, but in the long run it always follows it eventually, if with much reluctance, once that public will is demonstrated. In hindsight, I think people will look back on the current period as one of confusion, when there wasn't a clear consensus among Americans as to what we wanted our government to do and what powers we wanted it to have, regarding domestic surveillance and threats. In this confusion, the goverment is essentially drifting off in its own (probably undesirable) direction; this is only possible because most people really don't understand what's going on or care.

    Democracy is if nothing else, very slow. It has in the past taken multiple generations to resolve what in retrospect seem like very obvious problems; I'm not sure it's realistic to assume, even given the accelerated pace of life today, compared to the 19th century, that such basic questions about domestic survelliance and the role of the police and military in what now seems to be the common mode of warfare ("unconventional warfare," aka terrorism), will be settled in our lifetimes.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  54. You failed American History too? by Chas · · Score: 1
    Until we can vote in a way where everyone's votes count, not just the winners, we don't really have democracy.

    Small reminder. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!

    The United States is a Federal Republic with democratic trappings. The reason that a democracy wasn't instituted is that straight democracies are easily subverted by a charismatic-enough individual. It's tyranny of the majority with ZERO PROTECTIONS for those in the statistical minority.

    Pure democracy = mob rule. Mob rule means that whoever jumps out in front and screams the loudest can essentially do whatever they want, whether it's legal, ethical, moral or not.

    The republican form of government we currently have is NOT perfect. However, it protects statistical minorities from gross abuses by the majority. Therefore, I'm ill-disposed to a notion to bin it and replace it with a chaotic free-for-all and the vague hope that whoever emerges as the leader of the mob is well-intentioned...

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    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:You failed American History too? by spyfrog · · Score: 1

      You are kidding, right?

      Since most of Europe is straight democracies and I haven't heard of this mob rule that you have.

      Please note that the only European country during the last 70 years that I know of who have turned into a murdering dictatorship was the federal republic called Germany.
      Great protection for minorities there...

  55. New nomenclature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    maybe we ought to call people like the GP libratarians: libertarians who have merely read books about "their" philosophy.

  56. HOW TO CONTACT THE FCC by bratwiz · · Score: 2, Informative

    (From their website: http://www.fcc.gov/contacts.html)

    How to Contact the FCC

    To Contact the Commissioners via E-mail

    Chairman Kevin J. Martin: KJMWEB@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Michael J. Copps: Michael.Copps@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Jonathan S. Adelstein: Jonathan.Adelstein@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Deborah Taylor Tate: dtaylortateweb@fcc.gov
    Commissioner Robert McDowell: Robert.McDowell@fcc.gov

    United States Postal Service First-Class Mail, Express Mail & Priority Mail

    Federal Communications Commission
    445 12th Street, SW
    Washington, DC 20554

  57. Federal Corrupt Commision by toriver · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Big industry can buy politicans who decide, or those that enforce - or both!

    Welcome to the United States of Clear Channel and News Corp.

  58. ROTFL by woolio · · Score: 1

    Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    Why is the AP including "This material may not be published" in their articles?

    Kinda ironic, eh?

  59. You're History by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    No, you're the only one of us who failed American history. I got a perfect score on my AP History test, and have learned (and lived) much more in the decades since.

    "Pure democracy" doesn't even mean "mob rule", even if we had the Athenian democracy that lasted about 200 years.

    America has one of the many kinds of "people powered" democracies, constitutional republican democracy. It's not like we went to the government store and picked "democracy" out of the "ideologies" rack. Despite the "Republican" work on destroying elections and gaming the counterdemocratic Electoral College, we are primarily democratic, to produce a republic, according to a constitution that defines further complex interactions and differences from "pure" forms.

    So I'm not interested in your weird notion that we're replacing our system with the mob rule that you fantasize about. Or your failure to not only recognize American history, but that you're talking about polticial science, which is very distinct from that other subject you failed.

    You want to split hairs on the wrong dog, make sarcastic comments about nonsense, try it on someone who thinks your screaming wrong politics is right because you scream it the loudest.

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    make install -not war

  60. Why does the FCC hate America? by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

    America's economic foundation rests in *competitive* free-markets. So why -- except for obvious political purposes -- would a report like this be destroyed?

    Fact: the Bush administration and the cronies they've placed in various 3-letter agencies all hate America.

  61. Piece of Crap - Local stations by lpq · · Score: 1

    I'm in an area dominated by locals, where the network station feeds often have very cool shows, showing, my local station cuts off the "out-of-area" stations showing sci-fi shows on weekend afternoons, or late evening, with the claim that they have the rights to show those programs at 3-4am (to kill ratings) instead.

    I also dislike my local station's (and local cable's) consistent tendancies to cut out parts of national, primetime shows to splice in extra advertising. If my local stations (FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC) didn't corrupt network broadcasts with more advertising and didn't ban other channels showing programs at a "watchable hour" (recording is a hassle), I might agree, but all I've seen with local stations is "abuse".

    I'd love it if it cut the other way, but it doesn't.

    l

  62. 1984 by infidel13 · · Score: 1

    Courtesy of the Ministry of Truth

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    quia potentia mens mentis
  63. SocSec created to keep commies out of power in 32 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Conditions in the 'depression' were bad. Really Bad!! In small towns in Michigan an all over
    the country, unemployment was over 20 to 30 percent! This was in farm country where farmers worked and townspeople serviced them. One would think that farm service towns would have better
    unemployment stats. If they did, then WHAT DID THE CITIES LOOK LIKE?! In the election of 1932, Earl Browder the candidate, perennial candidate, of the Communist Party of the United States polled over
    5 million votes. The next election, 1936, looked to be the beginning of Communists being in both the House AND the Senate if not the White House if something was not done to help a starving
    population. Starving in the midst of plenty. People who had witnessed outrages like the mass
    dumping of foodstuffs in Los Angeles harbor just to maintain a price level, a level that was
    above the ability of American citizens reduced to penurious wages to pay. Maybe it will take a tragedy like that to happen again to knock people out of their easy chairs and into the streets to protest what is being stolen from them. The Bushites are waiting. Their Air Force generals are itching to try combat weapons on American citizens to prove their worth before taking them overseas to shoot them at the Taliban. They want to see if their microwave weapon really CAN make somebody's head explode amid molten silver tooth fillings and shattered hearing aids and melted
    pace-maker wires...........at a hundred meters distance from a protesting crowd. This kind of hellish instrument that only a true nazi could love did not exist in 1932. That is why Palestinians do not demonstrate any more. They use IED's. Take a look at Chile and what that country went through with Pinochet and the Chicago economist. The idea of putting 24 million Americans in concentration camps that was floated by the Bush administration still lives in op plans in military desk drawers all over this country. Republicans are hoping we Democrats will forget this too in November.. We will not! The Republicans will not pass!

  64. Managed 401k type accounts...pssstff by wilec · · Score: 1

    I have been investing a higher % than your 12% into a 401 or 403 account for about 20 years, admittedly mostly in the higher risk funds. Things did look pretty good during most of the 90's. However in the last six years or so things don't look so well. I am not sure one can trust such "managed" accounts. I suspect that I like most those falling in the later 25-30% of the baby boom will work till they die. I put my trust of being able to stay comfortable and well fed into the home I am building and my hands on living skills as well as my marketable knowledge. The home is designed to be inexpensive to heat and cool, and intentionally designed to not to fit within standard market definitions. This may make for a lower market value but it will thus also have a lower taxable value as well. The house will be a mostly buried steel reinforced concrete over steel quonset form. It is being built on a very rural tract without a mortgage and will survive just fine without insurance.

    Wabi-Sabi
    Matthew

    1. Re:Managed 401k type accounts...pssstff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, houses like that may be worth a lot more than you think when home owners wake up to the real power of natural disasters. Your house meets a not so well known standard of natural disaster preparedness. I'd still get flood and act-of-god insurance, though. Plus it ain't invulnerable to comet strikes. heheheh j/k.

  65. Re:SocSec created to keep commies out of power in by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

    Another way to look at the rise of American communism during the depression, and the installation of Social Security, is that Americans, like everyone else in the world, gradually expected our government to protect the basic economic survival of everyone in the country, at the cost of everyone in the country. Social programs offered a degree of socialism that satisfied what would otherwise have let Americans go overboard with full "communism".

    This happened practically everywhere in the world. Despite communism being designed for an industrialized country, the industrialized countries have produced socialism, which is most certainly not communism (as any reading of Marx/Engels or any actual communist political economics will make clear). Only agrarian countries became communist. America reflected that difference, as a huge country mostly agrarian but containing a huge industry elsewhere as well. As we industrialized the agrarian areas during the 20th Century socialism has become more popular, while communism is basically dead except among a tiny fringe of political radicals who mostly don't really understand economics.

    In other words, the American flexible, self-modifying representation political system took the pressure off to dodge the communism bullet.

    I agree with your take on the Republicans march in the other direction, into fascism. But do you have a citation for this "24 million Americans in concentration camps" Bush plan that you mentioned?

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    make install -not war