Slashdot Mirror


Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free

legoburner writes "Contrary to an earlier Slashdot story, Nintendo have now stated that the Wii will not be region free. The original claim came from Nintendo America, but Nintendo UK have gone on record denying the claims. They put it rather bluntly, stating: 'We are region-locked,' and that Nintendo America made a mistake by claiming otherwise."

307 comments

  1. BOOOOOOOOOH! by HatchedEggs · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Yes, that is the resounding sond of Booohs heard across the world. Come on Nintendo, if you're going to play the $250 console card and appeal to the customers, at least do it right.

    --
    Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    1. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by HatchedEggs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, the main problem that I have with Nintendo locking regions is that I travel quite a bit. Why shouldn't I be able to pick up a game that I come across while I am in Europe, or wherever else? It just makes it less convenient.

      Or if I end up moving to another country for work for a while... should I have to have relatives purchase the games for me and ship them over whenever I need a new one? C'mon.

      --
      Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    2. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yes, that is the resounding sond of Booohs heard across the world.

      No, the resounding sound is "YAAAAAWN". You do realize that the vast majority of people don't even know what regional encoding is, and the vast majority of the people who are left don't care, right?

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    3. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well the reason for region coding in the first place is simple: price fixing between regions. I know for instance a person with triple citizenship (china, australia, and the US) and she can often get things cheaper in australia even with the cost of shipping than she can in the US itself... The companies want to maximize profit by region though, so they lock devices and media to regions to control the ability for people to buy cheaper versions by importing.

      In a very real sense they don't care about your special needs...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    4. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by HatchedEggs · · Score: 1

      Of course they don't... which then allows me to complain about it to everyone and refuse to buy their product.

      Sure its only a loss of $400 or $500 to them over time, but it goes to show that in a very real way I don't particularily care about their special needs.

      --
      Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    5. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by PhoenixFlare · · Score: 1

      You know, the main problem that I have with Nintendo locking regions is that I travel quite a bit. Why shouldn't I be able to pick up a game that I come across while I am in Europe, or wherever else? It just makes it less convenient.

      It may be less convenient for you, but for the vast majority of customers, region locking will have no effect whatsoever, if they even know the practice exists in the first place.

      And does Europe really get all that many games that we don't get in the US? About the only place you might have a real argument is European gamers getting impatient and wanting to import US titles.

    6. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting
      You do realize that the vast majority of people don't even know what regional encoding is, and the vast majority of the people who are left don't care, right?

      I think pretty much every consumer knows to only buy region free DVD players. Whether that carries over to consoles remains to be seen but it's pretty stupid to claim that people don't care about the issue in general. Would you buy a region locked DVD player? Would you even be able to find a shop that sells them?
    7. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by rolfwind · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My most untechnical brother and sister-in-law know. They are smart people, but just not technical geeks.

      They know because they learned the hard way through DVDs. He travels a lot and she teaches foreign languages.

      My mother knows. Her stupid Powerbooks (and I am sure other notebooks) lock a specific region to her DVD drive after only 5 or 6 changes. It may sound like a lot, but if you are an International traveler, you end up saying "WTF! I have a DVD drive, why can't it read all DVDs?"

      I doubt it will matter as much to games though as the people who travel with systems is much less than Notebooks or something. But in the end, I have to ask for the sense of it? Players are not going to play games in languages they don't understand just to get it cheaper. And it pisses off the people who want to buy copies of Japanese games because all it forces them to do is either install a mod chip, or import a system.

      Region locking sucks for a lot of people.

    8. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Doomstalk · · Score: 4, Funny

      I was shouting "Boourns"...

    9. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by HatchedEggs · · Score: 2

      Good post, erm, whoever you are. I was at first writing a response to him, but then figured it wasn't worth the time to.

      However, the general attitude that "people are stupid" is silly, and really isn't the way it works in real life. That attitude works making a post on Slashdot, but there are a large number of intelligent people in this world... many of whom completely understand what regional encoding is. In fact, I don't recall the last time that it was brought up and the person looked at me awe-struck and said "Gee Wiz, whats that?".

      So anyways, AC, thanks for your response to the previous post. I for one am tired of people walking around with the attitude that people in general are stupid.

      --
      Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    10. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's stupid. Why don't they just charge high prices everywhere then?

      It's like with DVDs. If I can't grab a US dvd (and some DVDs don't frickin' *exist* in Europe!) and play it on my machine, I don't buy *ANY* DVDs. Yes, you read that right. When I noticed my drive was region-coded I didn't just buy a second drive for a second region-code. I chose to not buy dozens of DVDs. Too bad they shift the less-profits-blame on file-sharing instead.)

    11. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by HatchedEggs · · Score: 1

      Read the other responses... regional encoding has negative effects on alot of people. Not just Europeans that want to get access to material quickly.

      --
      Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    12. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by wwwojtek · · Score: 1

      And why do you think that the price that maximizes profits should be the same everywhere?

    13. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 3, Informative

      And does Europe really get all that many games that we don't get in the US? About the only place you might have a real argument is European gamers getting impatient and wanting to import US titles.

      The problem isn't just impatientcy, Europe doesn't always get the games the US does at all. (Especially geeky Japanese stuff). Think stuff like Xenosaga Ep. 1, WarioWare Twisted[1], Shining Tears, Katamari Damacy and I'm sure there are more. Plus the delays can sometimes be stupid, although usually not on the level of the 2 year delay of Animal Crossing.

      Plus I'm especially impatient, as I'm in the UK and I speak English, so all this locaisation stuff doesn't matter to me at all.

      [1] Although in that case, I can import it of course.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    14. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you don't live in a big city. Take a look around. There are more and more people who are immigrating to [insert name of your country] and they probably want to buy their local discs when they're visiting their native country, and play them when they get back.

    15. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Millenniumman · · Score: 0

      99/100 people don't know what region coding is. Of the 1/100 people that do know, 1/10 care, and 1/10 of those care enough to not buy a region coded player.

      --
      Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
    16. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by westlake · · Score: 1
      My most untechnical brother and sister-in-law know. They are smart people, but just not technical geeks. They know because they learned the hard way through DVDs. He travels a lot and she teaches foreign languages.

      That's a very select mix.

      The reality in the states is that a second DVD player for your anime or Bollywood fix is $30 at Walmart. The need for a region-free player will grow even less as the broader region coding of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray takes hold.

    17. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by rolfwind · · Score: 1
      What you say is true, now.

      But they ran against these problems when players were $200. And is my mom supposed to buy a second Powerbook (Macbook now I guess)? She sure can't swap drives and lugging an external one defeats the purpose of it in the first place.

      The need for a region-free player will grow even less as the broader region coding of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray takes hold.


      Do they have region free? I can't imagine a second HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player being cheap for the next few years.
    18. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by delinear · · Score: 1

      99/100 people don't know what region coding is. Of the 1/100 people that do know, 1/10 care, and 1/10 of those care enough to not buy a region coded player.

      In that case, 99/100 people aren't trying to buy imported games anyway - so why do these companies feel the need to go to the additional expense of implementing region locking and piss off the people who do care? Even if your figures are correct and only 1/10 of the people who care will refuse to buy the console because of this, there is a strong chance that the other 9/10 will attempt to get their console chipped to play games from any region (if they care and they can fix it, it stands to reason they will try).

      It's a small step from there to just using pirated games, then they tell their friends how to get free games and in the long run it costs them a lot more. Why not just be region free, save the expense of implementing locking and keep that final 1% happy?

    19. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite, I am still rather fucked off that Front Mission 4 never came out in the UK...twats

    20. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 1

      Because in some countries like China people make a whole lot less that they do in America. It might be literally impossible for people in other countries to spend the equivalent of $50 on a game.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    21. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Rydia · · Score: 1

      "A lot of people?" Perhaps a lot of slashdotters- a very, very, (very) small portion of even the games-buying population.

    22. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      That's funny because when I was living in Australia I'd buy dvd's and games from the US because that was the cheapest option.

    23. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Her stupid Powerbooks (and I am sure other notebooks) lock a specific region to her DVD drive after only 5 or 6 changes.

      All DVD drives for computers do this, unless you have a hack. Using players such as VLC or MPlayer will help you get round the issue. Of course this doesn't change the fact that it is a pain in the butt. It is also for reasons such as this that HD-DVD and BluRay do not interest me. For the moment I haven't had much issue with games, but the interesting thing is that the price differential is used as the excuse for region-locking consoles, yet at the same time PC games don't have to put up with this madness.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    24. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by k_187 · · Score: 1

      No, I believe there are only 3 regions for HDDVD/Blu-ray. Asia - east asia (i.e. Japan), The US, south america & Japan, europe & africa. SO there's less of a need if you like anime.

      --
      11 was a racehorse
      12 was 12
      1111 Race
      12112
    25. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by voxel · · Score: 1

      You know you'll complain, then you'll buy it anyways.

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    26. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by chrnb · · Score: 1

      btw. anybody know if the Wii is coming to china?, was playing to buy a japanese one but now that the region codes are back might have to spring for a european or american. But will probably be missing a lot of quirky/brilliant japanese games though.

      --
      MikMik Baby Organics Mikkaworks
    27. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by hords · · Score: 2

      I think pretty much every consumer knows to only buy region free DVD players.

      No way. Most people don't even know or care about regional encoding. If consumers only bought region free DVD players then all of them would be region free. I buy a DVD player for picture quality, not lack of region encoding.

      Would you buy a region locked DVD player? Would you even be able to find a shop that sells them?

      Yes and Yes. Most of the DVD players sold in stores ARE region encoded.

      quote from timefordvd.com - "There are some multi-region DVD players (those that can play more than one DVD region codes) and even region-free DVD players (those that can play DVDs with any region code). Many of these multi-region and region-free DVD players are altered as after-market models by third-party vendors. Chances are during the alteration process, these third-party vendors have voided the manufacturer warrantee."

      Quote from Wikipedia - "Some countries' laws consider regional lockout to constitute unfair restraint of trade; all DVD players sold in those countries must be region free." Maybe you're from one of those countries?

    28. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      The number of dead US soldiers is somewhere around half of the number of deaths in 9/11. But the number of dead Iraqis has exceeded the number dead in 9/11 at least thirtyfold.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    29. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      Not true -- More soldiers have now died in Iraq than people did in 9/11.

    30. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by utopianfiat · · Score: 1

      It seems Nintendo found that gun they used to shoot themselves in the foot with so long ago...
      "We're not pursuing internet gaming"
      "We want the gamecube to be a kid-friendly console"
      "What's an RPG?"

      --
      +5, Truth
    31. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Last I had checked the number of soldiers dead was around 1500 while the 9/11 deathtoll was 3000. What are the numbers now?

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    32. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Dionysus · · Score: 1
      --
      Je ne parle pas francais.
    33. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by westlake · · Score: 1
      I believe there are only 3 regions for HDDVD/Blu-ray

      Another formulation I've seen: North and South America and Asia (but not China); Europe and Africa; and Russia, China and "everywhere else." Perhaps a custom HD-DVD disk format for China.

    34. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by indiechild · · Score: 4, Informative

      You're joking right? What kind of goods can you get in Australia that are cheaper than the US? I'm in Australia and I often buy stuff like electronics and games/computer gear from overseas because it's so much cheaper than here. We have to pay literally 30-100% more than what other countries pay.

    35. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Taagehornet · · Score: 1

      That's a great idea: getting the first post, putting "BOOOOOOOOOH!" in the title, and getting everyone to reply to it. Just lean back and watch the thread go:

      BOOOOOOOOOH!
          BOOOOOOOOOH!
          BOOOOOOOOOH!
              BOOOOOOOOOH!

      Oh boy, pulling that stunt, you are the man, I'm not worthy... :)

    36. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by krayzkrok · · Score: 1

      Of course, none of this would really be a problem, and few would really care, if each region had the exact same content available, and the same release dates. There is no greater incentive for consumers to try and bypass region restrictions than making content exclusive to a particular region, or have release dates months apart for desirable hardware or its content.

    37. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 1

      You'd have to ask her, though since she has outright told me she has done that very thing apparently it's true on some things... China is by far cheaper yet, but I believe she was refering to same name brand items (rather than 'knock-offs' which is what she'd get in China). Then again she is also a distributor of various merchandise... Maybe she just gets better deals from suppliers in Australia...

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    38. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Ruff_ilb · · Score: 1

      I recently bought a motherboard from an australian retailer. It was still cheaper, even with super long shipping.

      --
      http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
    39. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      doesn't the dvd consortiums licensing forbid region free players making them gray market only (at least in countries that consider this licensing valid)?

      though i have heared some really cheap chineese players that get sold in supermarkets etc end up as region free (and sometimes free of other annoying crippling that the dvd consorium requires like button lockout during sequences the dvd vendor wants to force you to watch like adverts and copyright scare notices) because the manufacturers in question just don't care.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    40. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Kamineko · · Score: 1

      Dear Nintendo: DIVX playback. XVID playback. MPEG playback. Now.

    41. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is releasing a $250 console a "card"? I understand a "card" in rhetoric to be:

      1) a familiar theme or subject

      2) that has a tenative relationship to the subject at hand, and

      3) is used to distract from the real discussion.

      The price point for the Wii is none of these, especially as I fail to see who Nintendo would be playing this "card" to.

    42. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      If it does, it will be coming under the iQue name, like the DS and GBA. However, there will most likely be plenty of (unofficial) stores selling Japanese and American Wiis (like with the DS, GBA, and GameCube). If you live in China then it wouldn't be too hard to find someone that does modchips to mod the Wii to remove region coding.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    43. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      Not all of those "knock-offs" are actually fake. One method I heard about people using is that the factory makes each shipment of product a little bigger than usual. That "extra" product is instead removed and sold locally at really cheap prices. It's apparently not that widespread (this has never happened to iPods) but it has happened to shoes and clothing.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    44. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      "for the vast majority of customers, region locking will have no effect whatsoever" - I'd count China as pretty vast. Region locking has an effect on this market- it's always been near-impossible to find game consoles with China as a native market. People buy either Japanese or American consoles here and mod them to accept games from all regions since they're locked (or to play pirated games- when you've paid that much for a console you don't really have any money to buy legit games at $50-60 because it's China; just because a couple of tourists and rich locals can afford to buy games legit doesn't mean that all of the locals can, maybe some). Oh well- it's China- modchips remedy this problem fairly quickly.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    45. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by makomk · · Score: 1

      The reality in the states is that a second DVD player for your anime or Bollywood fix is $30 at Walmart. The need for a region-free player will grow even less as the broader region coding of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray takes hold.

      The UK and the US will still be in different regions, though - and HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will be sufficiently expensive that buying two (or more realistically 4 - one for each region/standard pairing) isn't going to be practical. Besides, here in the UK all the cheap DVD players (and some of the more expensive ones too - depends on brand) are multiregion, mainly so that people can play US imports - just enter the not-so-secret unlock code (and some of them are really "wink wink, nudge nudge" - e.g. one player where you just have to select the appropriate menu item and hold down zero).

      Oh, and the low, low price of a second DVD player doesn't help people (like the grandparent poster) who are on the move a lot and want to watch DVDs on their laptop...

    46. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IT HAS HAPPENED for the ipod SHUFFLE.

    47. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by jamar0303 · · Score: 1

      It has? I don't mean those things that resemble the iPod shuffle, I mean the real thing down to the last detail.

      --
      OSx86 FTW
    48. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by prionic6 · · Score: 1

      > In that case, 99/100 people aren't trying to buy imported games anyway

      You could argue that, if there were no region locking, imported games would be marketed more. So more people would know about them and buy them.

    49. Re:BOOOOOOOOOH! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I caught that too. Thought I'd be the bigger man... and I was. For about 3 seconds... now I'm just a coward.

  2. Wiiiiii! by Comatosis · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This isn't suprising, most systems are region locked as it is. Besides I'm sure someone will make a region-lock bypass similar to Gameshark or something.

    --
    When expecting to find intelligence in a person, do not look at their age but instead look at their IQ and maturity firs
    1. Re:Wiiiiii! by delinear · · Score: 2

      It wouldn't have been surprising if they'd said nothing. The fact that they promised region-free and are now withdrawing the statement will bring about a lot of negative publicity that they could have saved themselves by not lying to the public in the first place. It also casts doubt on their other statements.

      Nobody is berating Sony/MS for region locking, but then they never claimed that they'd do anything else. Nintendo, on the other hand, seemed to be doing pretty well in the media wars, and now they've gone and shot themselves in the foot. How many tech blogs/news sites today will be complaining about Nintendo? Quite a few I imagine. Will the bad publicity end up costing them more than having a non-locked system? Well that's their judgment call and I guess they've made it...

    2. Re:Wiiiiii! by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 2
      Nobody is berating Sony/MS for region locking, but then they never claimed that they'd do anything else. Nintendo, on the other hand, seemed to be doing pretty well in the media wars, and now they've gone and shot themselves in the foot.


      Really now? So what exactly is THIS supposed to have ment? Sony is JUST as full of hot air as Nintendo is, but in Nintendo's case, it seems like it was an honest mistake made by a single person, as opposed to a mindful shift made during design. If the Wii was never region free in the first place, and no one had ever said anything about it, would we be complaining as loudly? I do admit that Nintendo should have kept their mouthes shut in this regard, or at least made it a little more low key (having someone from the UK section basically say "We are region-locked" is not exactly buttering it for our eventual forced consumption, and I think this was a mistake.

      It doesn't matter: people who find this out and actually know what it means aren't going to refuse to buy a Wii on these grounds, and people who don't know what it means won't care anyway. I don't see Nintendo losing as many sales over this as I see Sony losing sales over their decision to only ship 500k units worldwide at launch, or their slaping Europe in the face.
      --
      No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
    3. Re:Wiiiiii! by squiggleslash · · Score: 1
      It wouldn't have been surprising if they'd said nothing. The fact that they promised region-free and are now withdrawing the statement will bring about a lot of negative publicity that they could have saved themselves by not lying to the public in the first place. It also casts doubt on their other statements.
      I'm not sure they lied about anything. What Nintendo actually told Tired was:
      es. Like the Nintendo DS, the Wii will be able to play games from other regions, such as Japan, without any restriction. Kaplan implied there might be a region lock that publishers would be able to flip on, but it doesn't sound like the first-party titles from Nintendo will be restricted.
      In other words:

      1. The Wii itself will support region locks.
      2. First party Nintendo games will not be region locked

      It looks to me like a confused marketing guy told a confused journalist that Nintendo wasn't planning to lock its titles or promote region locking, at least, not in the US. What the UK said doesn't contradict that.

      All of which is a shame. I wish Nintendo had the balls to not implement a lock to begin with. Or even better, made an open environment on the system practical.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Wiiiiii! by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      I wish Nintendo had the balls to not implement a lock to begin with.

      I'm not sure they even had a choice. The N64 suffered from having only a few 3rd party developers, which bled out onto the GCN. Now that they're hoping to get some of them back on board, one of those demands is probably region locking so that EA, Squeenix, etc can fix thier prices by region, even if N doesn't.

  3. WTF? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No one is certain..

    Title: Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free

    Next line: Nintendo have now stated that the Wii will not be region free.

    Bit lower: They put it rather bluntly, stating: 'We are region-locked,' and that Nintendo America made a mistake by claiming otherwise.

    Whos right?

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:WTF? by Koiu+Lpoi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What we might see is that NTSC/American Wiis are pseudo region free (for 1st party games), while the PAL/UK versions have region codes in the 1st party games. The other story said that developers could region lock games if they saw fit.

    2. Re:WTF? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      Ahhhhh poo, i'm even more confused now than before, too many uses of "region-free" / "region-locked" and booleans.
      somebody please revoke my internet license.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    3. Re:WTF? by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 1

      Ahhh, all three of those say the same thing. region-locked = not region free. Let me try to make it even more clear in case region-locked and region free don't have much meaning to you. If you buy a game from overseas (Japan, US, etc) it won't play if you live and bought your Wii in the UK.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    4. Re:WTF? by Clueless+Moron · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let met put it this way: it is untrue that it is not the case that the Wii will fail to not be region-locked. Clear?

    5. Re:WTF? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 1

      as mud.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    6. Re:WTF? by eMbry00s · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't not really know if I'm missunderstanding you incorrectly.

    7. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Bit lower: They put it rather bluntly, stating: 'We are region-locked,' and that Nintendo America made a mistake by claiming otherwise.


      It's probably a mis-quote. He meant to say "Wii are region-locked", which makes much more sense.

    8. Re:WTF? by vleck · · Score: 1

      Exactly what I was thinking when I read that headline...

    9. Re:WTF? by ignavus · · Score: 1

      Well, it is not the case that it is not necessarily unclear.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
  4. Left hand, right hand by dosius · · Score: 1

    Left hand, right hand. So which division's telling the truth? Both? Neither?

    -uso.

    --
    What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    1. Re:Left hand, right hand by russ1337 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well, they both thought they were right. When the origional question was asked "would the wii be region free across the world?" Wii USA answered Yes, because they thought America is world.....

    2. Re:Left hand, right hand by blixel · · Score: 1

      Left hand, right hand. So which division's telling the truth?

      That's easy. The left are the liars.

    3. Re:Left hand, right hand by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Left hand, right hand. So which division's telling the truth?

      That's easy. The left are the liars.


      More acurately: the left are liars and the right are wrong, or vice versa, its all the same.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    4. Re:Left hand, right hand by russ1337 · · Score: 1
      That's easy. The left are the liars
      My left, or your left?
    5. Re:Left hand, right hand by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      You just reminded me of something...

      Internal miscommunication like this is what killed Sega.

    6. Re:Left hand, right hand by ignavus · · Score: 1

      Calling Planet America!
      Calling Planet America!

      Planet Earth's North American continent wants its land mass between Canada and Mexico returned, please.

      --
      I am anarch of all I survey.
    7. Re:Left hand, right hand by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      So is this your comic? Or do you know the person whose comic it is? Or did you get the quote from elsewhere yourself? Or did you just get ripped off? :)

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  5. Nintendos response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wii where wrong.

  6. I'm so sorry by darien · · Score: 5, Funny

    All together now: 'Wii shall not, Wii shall not be moved...'

    Because it's region-locked, you see...

    Oh, never mind.

    1. Re:I'm so sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All together now: 'Wii shall not, Wii shall not be moved...'

      Because it's region-locked, you see...


      Don't you mean: "Because it's Wiigion-locked, you see... ;-)

  7. hm by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I think that this is a shame, although my DS is region free and I've never bought a game from either America or Japan, so it's not going to be too big of a problem to be. I doubt many people will be upset about this. Still, it's a shame.

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    1. Re:hm by delinear · · Score: 1

      It's a pretty big issue if you play a lot of import games. It's now illegal over here in the UK to sell mod chips (not sure if it's illegal to buy them from overseas and fit them yourself, but that's probably beyond most users' technical ability anyway). Importing is probably a bigger issue in Europe than the US, since the releases usually go Japan > US > Europe, we're often left waiting a hell of a long time for our gaming fixes (along with the knowledge that we're only waiting so they can charge us 50% more than the rest of the world pays).

    2. Re:hm by matthewbarr · · Score: 1

      Good point - I've never imported a DS game either. I guess it's just the principle of the thing...

    3. Re:hm by Buddy_DoQ · · Score: 1

      Well, when I went to Tokyo last week I had to pass up dozens of awesome looking console games that I really wanted to purchase. I ended up spending all that money on DS games instead, knowing that they would play in my system. The DVD's on the other hand were a pain in the ass; if not for my region-hacked laptop hooked up to my TV I would have never even looked at their collection. Owning the uncut DVD for the new Jet Li film before it's even out in US theaters is pretty freaking sweet, getting to watch it is even sweeter.

      I hope Nintendo at least continues to keep at least Japan-USA in the same region, I would love to pick up odd quirky Wii games on my next trip. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

      --
      -Buddy of DoQ
    4. Re:hm by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 0
      my DS is region free
      I heard that too, but I don't think that's exactly true. I recently bought PAL version of Mario 64 DS. I had absolutely no idea what the PAL format had to do with the DS. I found out later that PAL versions don't communicate with each other in multiplayer. Not hardware region coding as such...
      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    5. Re:hm by triffid_98 · · Score: 1
      Sweet. The UK is championing the banner of freedom yet again. Unfortunately, waiting may not solve your problem. As an example, many of the Saturn's best titles were never released outside of Japan. That is why Radiant Silvergun sells for bizarro-world prices. This is a UK region auction too. Those Sheffield bobbies should really petition ebay for IP's, I smell a CRIME.

      It's a pretty big issue if you play a lot of import games. It's now illegal over here in the UK to sell mod chips (not sure if it's illegal to buy them from overseas and fit them yourself, but that's probably beyond most users' technical ability anyway). Importing is probably a bigger issue in Europe than the US, since the releases usually go Japan > US > Europe, we're often left waiting a hell of a long time for our gaming fixes (along with the knowledge that we're only waiting so they can charge us 50% more than the rest of the world pays).
  8. I don't believe etiher one. . . by Bionic_Baboon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm waiting for the word from Nintendo of Japan before I believe anything.

    1. Re:I don't believe etiher one. . . by moo083 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are exactly right. I want to hear the words from Iwata or Miyamoto, etc, instead of some guy who is the VP of marketing or something. I want to hear it from the people in charge who are running the show. That is the only way I will believe either way.

    2. Re:I don't believe etiher one. . . by voxel · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, you'll believe it when you stick in a game cd from another country and it doesn't work.

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    3. Re:I don't believe etiher one. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I agree. I've got to hear the final word from either Mario or Yoshi.

  9. No problem, just don't buy it. by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is it that hard? The dollar/pound/euro/yen is the only voice they'll hear.

    --
    I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
    1. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 2, Funny

      That might even be viable, if so many people wern't already pre-boycotting PS3.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    2. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, what about creating an external network of distribution, showing a finger to Nintendo Europe and Nintendo US and supplying the whole world with Japaneese edition? :)
      We'd need a big electronics network to pull this one, but imagine the outrage as suddenly "This game won't work with my Nintendo." "But you have a Japaneese edition!" "I bought it in a shop around the corner, what do you mean by Japaneese?" and sudden rush at region-unlocking all that is being sold.

    3. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by moo083 · · Score: 1

      No one is boycotting the PS3...its just that those people (me included) cannot afford it. Well, on second thought, I guess there isn't TOO much of a difference.

    4. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by Perseid · · Score: 1

      A pre-boycott? Do I have to sign a little sheet in the video game store for that or can I just do it online? And do they require some sort of pre-refund to secure your place in the pre-boycott?

    5. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know it sounds ludicrous, but you don't have to buy any of the big three next-gen consoles. I've found that route a pretty easy one to take considering two don't exist on store shelves yet.

    6. Re:No problem, just don't buy it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That won't happen, because most Americans are unaware that region coding exists. They just go to Wal-mart, buy the device, and expect stuff they buy at Wal-mart to work on it.

      It is rumored that many Americans are unaware that other regions exist ...

  10. Direct quote from Perrin Kaplan? by clu76 · · Score: 5, Informative
    I think it would be helpful if there was a direct quote from Perrin Kaplan. The best I could find is this:
    "Like the Nintendo DS, the Wii will be able to play games from other regions, such as Japan, without any restriction. Kaplan implied there might be a region lock that publishers would be able to flip on, but it doesn't sound like the first-party titles from Nintendo will be restricted." - Joel Johnson, Wired
    Could it be possible that this whole region free rumor was started by a mistake. Even Joel Johnson's quote implies, "there might be a region lock that publishers would be able to flip on." And even then, Johnson isn't completely firm about the Nintendo's own region stance when he says, "but it doesn't sound like the first-party titles from Nintendo will be restricted." Doesn't sound like?
    --
    the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
    1. Re:Direct quote from Perrin Kaplan? by Denial93 · · Score: 1

      Could it be possible that this whole region free rumor was started by a mistake.

      Imagine you were Nintendo, and not sure about how region locking actually affects sales because there is no hard data on that. Would you consider collecting the data yourself? As in, have two lackeys make contradictory announcements, and watch the customer responses?

    2. Re:Direct quote from Perrin Kaplan? by clu76 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Found my quote. Had to watch a 20 minute video to get it.

      Robert Summa of Destructoid asked Perrin Kaplan, "Is everything region free." Kaplan replied, "Yes. Yeah. Which is a good thing. I've actually had several people ask that of me today."

      Here's the video. The quote is near the end. The quote is about 18 minutes in.

      --
      the cosmos in 20 words or less: thumbuki.com
    3. Re:Direct quote from Perrin Kaplan? by denebian+devil · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Imagine you were Nintendo, and not sure about how region locking actually affects sales because there is no hard data on that. Would you consider collecting the data yourself? As in, have two lackeys make contradictory announcements, and watch the customer responses?

      No, because the people who have a propensity to respond to such announcements likely do not accurately represent the whole set of people who are interested in buying the product. A) they are much more tech savvy and care about all these day-to-day announcements (as opposed to the person who just tries to buy it once it's out, or pre-orders it and forgets all else). B) people who respond tend to be those people who oppose whatever it is they are responding to, whereas people who don't care one way or the other tend not to respond. And I'm sure there's other reasons why. In any case, any "data" they might collect would be pretty much worthless in terms of determining the market effect of their decision, whatever that decision turns out to be.

    4. Re:Direct quote from Perrin Kaplan? by LightCecil · · Score: 1

      The only impression I got out of that was that she had no idea what half the stuff they were saying meant.

      Especially. "The games will be on regular CD"

      At the size they're using (12 cm), they would be wise to use DVD data density. I imagine that it is, and this marketdroid just doesn't know what the difference is.

      And if she didn't understand something that important, maybe she didn't have any official word and just played it by ear. Whoops.

  11. You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Wow, I remember the post-E3 hype where people were talking about a 150 dollar Nintendo console that was going to rock the console world to its foundation and change the face of gaming forever with its revolutionary and innovative controller.

    Fast forward and see how times have changed for Nintendo:

    * Expensive console - 250 dollars for a souped up GameCube
    * Expensive controllers - so much for having three or four friends over all using Wii controllers without shelling out big bucks
    * Ho-hum games - A whole lot of Wii titles look to be "GameCube game with some pointing"

    The Wii is looking like the Colin Powell of consoles - everyone loves it as long as the details aren't pinned down and gamers imprint their own hopes and desires on the console. But once the facts about the console come to light support starts to disappear.

    1. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by buswolley · · Score: 1

      Well I think you're right anyway.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    2. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Rydia · · Score: 1

      How is $250 expensive? It's $150 less than the version everyone gets of a console already out for a year. The controllers are comparable to controllers on the market.

      The people that were disappointed, it seems, weren't thinking realistically. Those of us who thought that Nintendo was an actual company and not actually going to give us a free pony with our wiis are pretty much... feeling the same.

    3. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by grumbel · · Score: 0
      How is $250 expensive? It's $150 less than the version everyone gets of a console already out for a year.

      The Wii is also a heck of a lot less powerfull then the other nextgen consoles. You have to compare the Wii with the Gamecube and if you do that you will find that its $150 more expensive then the Gamecube, doesn't look so sexy anymore. And when it comes to how much the Wii is more powerfull then the gamecube, lets just look at the screenshots of Gamecube and Wii, see the difference? I don't.

      The controllers are comparable to controllers on the market.

      Except that they cost almost twice as much, oh and they are also not compatible with all the games on the console, so you have to get additional classic controllers to play all the games the console has to offer.

      The people that were disappointed, it seems, weren't thinking realistically.

      Well, some of us hoped that Nintendo would offer the console at a fair price and not try to squezze every cent out of the consumers just because the PS3 is totatly out of reach for many.

    4. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by cgenman · · Score: 2

      The controllers are comparable to controllers on the market.

      Except that they cost almost twice as much, oh and they are also not compatible with all the games on the console, so you have to get additional classic controllers to play all the games the console has to offer.


      Xbox 360 wireless controllers are 50, and there is a good bit more tech in the Wii controller. That makes them 20% more expensive. Where are you getting the 2x figure from?

      I agree that the classic controller thing is weird / silly, but how else would you emulate 6 different consoles that have a very different control setup?

    5. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      First off, I don't see why people say that $250 is expensive for a console, for a basic system you will pay:

      • $250 for Wii
      • $350 for XBox 360 core + 1 Memory Card
      • $500 for PS3


      Now consider what each of the systems will cost you with 3 extra controllers and 2 games (a pretty fair comparison)

      • $530: Wii ($250), 3 Controllers ($180) and 2 Games ($100)
      • $590: XBox 360 core ($300), Memory Card ($50), 3 Wired Controllers ($120) and 2 Games ($120)
      • $670: XBox 360 Priemium ($400), 3 Wireless Controllers ($150) and 2 Games ($120)
      • $770-$830: PS3 Base ($500), 3 Wireless Controllers ($150-$180) and 2 Games ($120-$150)
      • $870-$930: PS3 Priemium ($600), 3 Wireless Controllers ($150-$180) and 2 Games ($120-$150)


      (Note, currently the Wii and XBox 360 Priemium come with a bundled game; this will be a bonus for some, useless for most)

      Now as for the Wii being a "Souped up Gamecube" why does that really matter?

      The Gamecube was about twice as powerful as the PS2, and the Wii is about 2 to 4 times as powerful as the Gamecube; for a total of the Wii being 4 to 8 times as powerful as the PS2. Currently, any decent developer will tell you that, the vast majority of development is still on the PS2 because it has the largest user base and (unless you're trying to produce uber-realistic graphics) it is as powerful as they need for most games. Most developers have taken the stance (since the XBox was released) that if you can't make an interesting and enjoyable game play experience on the PS2 no ammount of added power will make a game interesting. What the Wii provides is a way to make an interesting and enjoyable gameplay experience that could not be done on the PS2; if you look at Wii Sports, EA only has to take these game ideas and flesh them out to produce some of the most amazing Sports games ever (Ring Kings in Wii : Boxing style, Tiger Woods Golf in Wii: Golf Style, etc.) and even EA has shown an amazing ability to create interesting gameplay dynamics in Madden:Wii 2007.

      I personally think that what Nintendo has done is very clever. In my opinion, people who go out to buy a Wii will not be swayed by the pretty graphics on the PS3; Nintendo may have broken the home console buisness into two very different buisness segments, one of which they will dominate because they have no competition.

      Blue Ocean > Blu-Ray
    6. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm just guessing, but I'll put it out here anyway: if you've got a Gamecube controller, you probably won't need a classic controller anyway. Unless Nintendo has changed what they said in the past, and GC controllers are no longer usable with the Wii, you don't need to buy a new one anyway.

      Hopefully, most of the games that lend themselves to four players won't require the use of the nunchuck extension, only the Wiimote itself. Really, though, you shouldn't need four Wiimotes yourself: through implimentation of the while Mii! idea, with the character you create stored on your own controller, it seems they're encouraging people to take these things with them when they visit with their friends. Just make the party a BYOC, and no problem.

      --
      No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
    7. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by grumbel · · Score: 1
      Xbox 360 wireless controllers are 50, and there is a good bit more tech in the Wii controller. That makes them 20% more expensive. Where are you getting the 2x figure from?

      If I don't need wireless controllers, I can also pick up the cheaper wired ones for XBox360. On the Wii I don't have that choice. And as said Wiimote won't work with all games, so I have to get classic controller for an additional $15, which puts a complete Wii controller set for one person at $75 while XBox360 controller can be optained for $35. Cheap third party controller might also be quite a bit more problematic on the Wii, due to the new tech.

      Now of course the Wii controller has more tech, but so does the PS3, that however doesn't make the higher price less annoying, this is especially true for a console like the Wii who gets advertised a lot with four people jumping around in front of the screen and shipped with a game that seems to be only fun in multiplayer.

    8. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why didn't you use a game that actually demonstrated the difference between the Wii and Gamecube; if I wanted to I could go get images of Gun, King Kong, Tiger Woods, or NBA 2006 for the XBox 360 which looked worse than the XBox versions.

      Try these screenshots:
      http://cubemedia.ign.com/media/news/image/features /linkcomparebig.jpg http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748545/img_3595 423.html
      http://media.cube.ign.com/media/016/016713/img_156 2556.html http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748588/img_3761 888.html

      The Wii may not be in the same league as the XBox 360 and the PS3 but it is still a very powerful system. A fair comparison would be that:

      Gamecube = N64
      PS3 and XBox 360 = XBox/Gamecube
      Wii = Dreamcast

    9. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 1

      I just realized I used "anyway" three times in two sentences, and used "while" instead of "whole". Please excuse me while I punch myself in the face.

      --
      No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
    10. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The Wii is only a shade cheaper than an XBox 360 but technically inferior. Any franchise games that appear for it are more likely to be ports from the current generation of consoles than siblings with the XBox 360 or PS3. This is because the thing has neither the memory, CPU, graphics capability or controller to make porting from a 360 or PS3 straightforward. That alone means it will require a lot of exclusive content to make it worthwhile since it will suck big time by comparison otherwise. And the franchise games will dry up as the current-gens wind down. Another problem is that people think the controller is going to be some amazing pixel perfect wand when it can't be and won't be. The controller has benefits, but if people think they can slash the thing around in perfect synchrony as their online counterpart they will be sorely disappointed.

    11. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "* Expensive console - 250 dollars for a souped up GameCube"

      $150 cheaper than its closest competitor.

      "* Expensive controllers - so much for having three or four friends over all using Wii controllers without shelling out big bucks"

      $60 for a nunchuck and Wii-mote. Hardly 'big bucks'.

      "* Ho-hum games - A whole lot of Wii titles look to be "GameCube game with some pointing"

      Yeah, you've posted this a couple of times already, everybody knows that's not true. The sky isn't falling, Mr. Little. None of your complaints even comes close to "$599".

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by grumbel · · Score: 1

      Try a Mario Sunshine screenshot that isn't all blurry and ugly and you don't really have much different left. Also Mario Galaxy uses different shading and emphasis the edges a lot, which gives the pictures some extra brillance, but that isn't really a sign of much improved power.

      When you compare Link you have to take into account that SmashBrosMelee was a launch title for the console, current generation Gamecube games do look quite a bit better, compare it for example with Twilight Princess on the Gamecube, again, no big difference left.

      I would be happy to be proven wrong, but so far it simply looks like Wii will have only minimally more power then the Gamecube. None of the Wii games so far looked like it couldn't have been done in the current generation. That doesn't mean they are ugly, Zelda looks great, but for a next generation console it really is quite a disapointment, especially for the price.

    13. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird... I'm looking at the same information and thinking "Wow, $250? That's the cheapest of the 'next gen' consoles! And it actually looks like it has games I'd want to play!"

    14. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by tepples · · Score: 1
      $60 for a nunchuck and Wii-mote. Hardly 'big bucks'.

      A GameCube controller cost half that.

    15. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be happy to be proven wrong, but so far it simply looks like Wii will have only minimally more power then the Gamecube. None of the Wii games so far looked like it couldn't have been done in the current generation. That doesn't mean they are ugly, Zelda looks great, but for a next generation console it really is quite a disapointment, especially for the price.

      I'm not going to go too much into it, because it really isn't important, but even launch titles on the Wii did not get Wii development kits until about 2 months before E3; as was brought up in an interview with the Red-Steel development team, they didn't have time to take advantage of the system (to bring up their artist "film-noir" style) before E3. The fact is that we are still seeing E3 builds, and E3 demos for most of the launch games, so it is highly likely that these games will be more polished and complete before the system launches (meaning the should look better).

      All I can say, is that no one (who is willing to publicly say) knows the real "power" of the Wii and all that has been published is baseless speculation and rumor; I know for a fact that EBgames.com was publishing the IGN rumor specs and recieved a nice visit from a Nintendo laywer to stop them from publishing false specs. The NDAs are scheduled to expire on January 1st 2007 but I suspect Nintendo will not have problems with the information comming out after the system releases (either that or Anandtech will do an analysis of the system), after that you'll understand why IBM and ATI have said that "you've only seen the tip of the iceburg" in terms of graphics.

      Trust me ... The Wii doesn't aspire to be either the PS3 or XBox 360 but it still has some serious power under the hood.

    16. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by buswolley · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Several things:

      1. Nintendo is making a mistake by packaging only one controller into the bundle, when the game that is packaged into the bundle is best played with two or more players.

      2. They are targeting non-gamers, and the best way to win them over is to let a person have fun while playing with at a friends house who has already bought a console. 3.I'd rather have a gamecube with two wii-motes and Wii-sports for (100+60+60+30) 250 dollars than the Wii package plus another wiimote for 310 dollars. The Wii isn't much more powerful than the GC, but they aren't the same. They spent research dollars on making the technology small and energy efficient. These are good things, but they also drove up the cost of the Wii. 4. People praise Nintendo for not selling the Wii at a loss. Sure, it might make business sense, but I'd rather have them make it back through having a large userbase. I am a consumer, and I want to see the same discounts that are applied elsewhere in the industry. I want the Wii package for below $200. Besides, if they want to expand their base into non-gamers then they need a lower price to encourage sales.

      5. Finally. I think Nintendo began to be encouraged by the internet hype and got overly greedy. Greed is natural for businesses, but too much greed can hurt their business. I believe that Nintendo thought that the Wii is SO popular that success is ensured already. I tell you what. Most people(read: non-gamers) don't know what a Wii is. Its going to take word of mouth, grass roots viral .. And to do that they need a critical mass to set things off. A low, heavily subsidized price($190 with 2 Wii-motes) would create that critical mass. I think Nintendo is being too conservative and will thereby limit the extent of their dominance and cultural penetration. THey have a console that is addictive, versatile, and friendly to all age groups. They have caught the competition flat-footed, and now is the time to be aggressive for mindshare and market share. This is their chance to let it be known that they are the gaming company, and that gaming is for everyone. No, Nintendo is hedging their bets and being conservative.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    17. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A nunchuck attachment isn't a required purchase.

    18. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by tepples · · Score: 1
      A nunchuck attachment isn't a required purchase.

      It likely is for half the games out there, especially third-party games.

    19. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a load of pants. The same approach worked perfectly for the DS - that has become a phenomenon.

    20. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just make the party a BYOC, and no problem."

      When has that EVER worked?

      It's much more sensible for groups of friends to diversify their home console choices so everyone gets to play more games...

    21. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. The thing is, of the 360 games I've seen so far* only Dead or Alive has actually impressed me with the graphics. Otherwise it's just "hmm, this looks like a PC game". Next gen is a graphical letdown all round.

      *10 or so, just playing demo stations in game shops. So, that's using an OK HD setup.

    22. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by trdrstv · · Score: 1

      GameCube controller doesn't have nearly the same functionality. The 'Wand' is only $40, and in comparison is only $5 more than a Wavebird, and $10 less than a Wireless 360 controller.

    23. Re:You've Come A Long Way Baby by buswolley · · Score: 1

      True, but how much is the DS? $130? That is not the same class as $250.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

  12. Ahh, those were the days.. by Spince · · Score: 1

    I've owned all nintendo units (even the old famicom back from the 80s) except the gamecube, and most regional lockouts were easily defeated. I still have fond memories of modding all my old American units to work with Japanese games as a kid. Nintendo - Had to buy an extension to insert the small cartridges into the nintendo unit. Super NES - Two little plastic strips that I ripped out with pliers N64 - Got smarter this time at the age of 15..... heated up a paper clip and melted off the more substantial nubs in this unit. I'm not familiar with the gamecube, so I have no idea if this one needed a more substantial mod. I've never quite understood the reason for these regional lockouts, can someone explain to me what the reasoning behind it is, and how it benefits them? If I buy the game all the same, what difference does it make where I buy it from?

    1. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by eboot · · Score: 1

      gamecube was simple, you just need a disc that was commercially available.

      --
      Two tears in a bucket. Motherfuck it.
    2. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Alioth · · Score: 1

      The difference is you're not paying the highest possible price for your market. This is one reason why DVDs are region locked - DVDs are much cheaper in some countries than others, and people would just order their DVDs off the Internet instead of paying extra for the locally sold one. The sole reason for region locking is to force you to pay the highest price for the region you're in.

    3. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by joe+155 · · Score: 1

      Well the games are significantly cheaper in the US than in the UK, the console in Japan is only £113 whilst in the UK it is £179, so people could start shipping massive amounts of them and hurt the shops like game and gamestation - which Nintendo need to get behind the Wii 100%, because that's where most people buy games from - if the big game shops get hurt they might decide it's not really worth them selling the wii or wii games and the console could fail.

      It wouldn't have to work like that, but it could. The region lock-down doesn't have to cost them a lot either, it could be really easy to get round if you opened up the system (I don't know how they've done it) all it needs to be is enough to stop the majority of people who couldn't be bothered to look inside from doing it.

      So from their point of view, it's cheap, it makes more money, and it protects them. It's not great for consumers, but I doubt it'll put off 99.5% of thier target market

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    4. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the reason is that the sales of NoA/NoE suffer if everyone already bought the japanese title. It's more for their internal statisitcs and manager incentives than anything else.

      Oh and to screw europe with higher prices =)

    5. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Xymor · · Score: 1

      Sony stated ps3 would be region-free,I'm not sure if it's really region-free or region-lock up to publishers, but if the frist, how big a impact it will have in europe(market and gamers)?

    6. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      The only reason is price hiking, especially in europe. Companies tend to calculate a 1:1 euro/dollar parity while in fact it is more like 1:1.4 this even if 10-20% vat counted out depending on EU region, gives them a load of extra cash. Of course companies usually do not take the it into their own pockets once the parity reaches real 1:1 like it used to have a while ago, then suddenly at day zero the raise the prices anyway, due to not being able to cope with the difference. The funny thing is, if we speak about Nintendo, they in the good ole Snes days tried to enforce region locking on a per country base, they got a decisive smack on the head. Did not have enough influence in the EU, because the TV stations got away with that.

    7. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Well lets face it, the PC never had any region locks whatsover as a gaming platform, neither does the Nintendo DS, I cannot see any local vendors going haiwire over this. But at least in the area of PC gaming, inflated local price hiking never has happened, the prices still are somewhat under console level even in rip off regions like europe. I was really shocked when I went from mainly bargain bin PC gaming to consoles, how expensive all this stuff was and how late the games hit the bargain bins and even then they are at the level of some new PC stuff. To sum it up, I think in the meanwhile PC gaming is way less expensive because there are not so many hidden pricetags attached to it.

    8. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've seem PC games in the UK that won't work if your timezone is set to the US.

    9. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Ah yes I forgot about those ones, did not happen too often, and totally idiotic.Thanks for reminding me.

    10. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I've owned all nintendo units (even the old famicom back from the 80s) except the gamecube, and most regional lockouts were easily defeated.
      Only because you're living in the US. The locking in the European versions of the hardware is a significant pain in the ass.
    11. Re:Ahh, those were the days.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      freeloader for gamecube; put in the freeloader disc, turn the system on, swap in the foreign game disc, play

  13. Bad news for the UK by owlnation · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it is locked - and I don't really know what the overall conclusion from this article is either - then it's certainly bad news for the UK gamers. Seems that the announced prices for the Wii will make it most expensive in the UK - for reasons that aren't clear to me for one.

    I suspect the reason is the same one as used by every other company - "you're British, if we shaft you on price you won't do anything about it. It's just cos we can charge more that we do."

    1. Re:Bad news for the UK by Cap'nPedro · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's because we have to pay an extra 17.5% Value Added Tax (VAT).

      And, I could be wrong, but there are stricter rule sin the UK about importing some of the chemicals used in technology (leaded solder etc.?).

      Oh, and our TVs are PAL over here; that means different hardware.

    2. Re:Bad news for the UK by segedunum · · Score: 1
      Seems that the announced prices for the Wii will make it most expensive in the UK - for reasons that aren't clear to me for one.
      This has always been the case in the UK, and the reasons have never been made clear - other than companies seem to be able to screw us harder than in other countries.
    3. Re:Bad news for the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right that VAT is the ultimate culprit, but the price hikes are far more than 17.5%. What happens is that companies know that most of us (like you) will put the shafting down to VAT rather than pricing decisions made by greedy assholes, and therefore any outrage will mostly be directed towards the government, not the companies. They're clever buggers.

    4. Re:Bad news for the UK by daeg · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that the population of the UK is around 62 million, making it a rather small region to Nintendo. They still have to market the console, pay regulatory fees, etc, thus making their cost-per-unit much higher for the UK than other regions like North America (USA + Canada = 345 million). Since Canada and the US have many similar laws and very few foreign company "entrance" fees (low import tax), their fees are rather low per unit.

      Europe is an expensive market to get into for non-European companies. We may love the fact that there are so many countries packed together and each country has its own flavor, but that also means every country has its own rules and regulations and many of them are structured to strongly prefer domestic companies rather than pure importers like Nintendo. The European Union is helping to fix that, albeit slowly.

    5. Re:Bad news for the UK by Albanach · · Score: 2, Informative
      It's worth bearing in mind that VAT in the UK runs at 17.5%. - other prices (certainly in the US) don't include local sales tax as it varies state to state.

      So, for example a UK price of £179 converts to a $US price of 336 or a VAT free price of 285. So there's still a bit of a mark up against as US price of $250, but it's around 15% rather than some of the inflated differences mentioned elsewhere.

    6. Re:Bad news for the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why not just buy the (cheaper) american wii and then buy the (cheaper) american games?

    7. Re:Bad news for the UK by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Then you need a TV that does NTSC and a power outlet (or more likely a transformer/adapter) that does US plugs. Although depending on how the power supply of the wii works, it might be possible to buy some kind of UK power supply thing for it instead of the converter.

    8. Re:Bad news for the UK by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Half your own fault, while we in the Euro zone constantly get shafted over a hidden 1:1 price screw the dumbasses parity between continental EU and the Dollar zone, you get shafted over a hidden screw the dumbasses 1:1 parity between continental EU And UK... You cannot count the VAT in this case, due to the fact that with 17% the UK Vat is along european average (Germany being 16% and soon moving towards 19 and 20% in my country) You at least woult not get shafted on the prices between Euro and Pound if you had dropped the Pound. Your local vendors have been screwing you for decades with that.

    9. Re:Bad news for the UK by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      I would not extensively say that the UK is so much of a hazzle, the language is the same as the US so no extra translation costs, and the EU is a central market servicable from a central point, just like the US. I dont see any reason for the 15-17% price difference at all (VAT already counted out) (Well even the income of the employees is lower than what they have to pay in the IS), except for pure greed. Apple does the same, and I in the long run over the year has cost Apple millions over here, due to the fact that they are always the most expensive ones, and a buying afterthought. I think doing that on paper looks good but in the long run it costs the companies doing that more on lost sales than they ever could gain.

    10. Re:Bad news for the UK by ralmin · · Score: 1
      Europe is an expensive market to get into for non-European companies. We may love the fact that there are so many countries packed together and each country has its own flavor, but that also means every country has its own rules and regulations and many of them are structured to strongly prefer domestic companies rather than pure importers like Nintendo. The European Union is helping to fix that, albeit slowly.

      From the news I hear, the EU is doing the opposite. Aren't they trying to block lots of Chinese manufacturers, such as clothing and textiles, to protect their own workers?

    11. Re:Bad news for the UK by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      NTSC isn't a big deal, my understanding is that NTSC compatibility is so common in PAL sets that some of the lower selling titles aren't converted to PAL when exported to Europe.

      Power is a bigger deal, though Nintendo usually uses removable or external power modules, so you might just put in the EU 220V 50Hz power supply and be done with it.

    12. Re:Bad news for the UK by daeg · · Score: 1

      From what I've read and seen, the anti-import laws are forming more to protect against cheap goods like the ones you mention (textiles) and disposable goods. I don't think the EU is ready to tackle durable goods and high-end consumer goods like the Wii. They need to attract the manufacturing and production to Europe before they can tackle that problem.

    13. Re:Bad news for the UK by meitsjustme · · Score: 1

      I'm not a console gamer, played my games on PCs exclusively in the past, even then I was temped by Wii's innovativeness and price before these announcements, to put a pre-order in to lik-sang. However, this region-lock and uk prices had made me decided not to purchase it straight away when it come out.

      I would think this would be a similar case for a lot of none-core consumers for the Wii (i.e. people other than fan boys), to wait and see if to what extend the uk consumers would be ripped off and how to get around it.

    14. Re:Bad news for the UK by delinear · · Score: 1

      It seems like this would be a reason to drop region-locking. After all, it must cost them to implement this and to repackage every game to a specific market. If they could just pop a UK power lead into a US/Japan console and ship it to the UK that would save them money, and sure they might lose some revenue on initial games sales if they were priced cheaper, but they'd probably gain sales that they're currently losing to the pre-owned game market (if I could buy a brand new game for £30 instead of £50, I'd be less tempted to pick up a used game for £25 and run the risk of scratched disks, damaged packing, etc). But then, IANAE (economist), I guess they know what they're doing, but it never helps to publicly announce just how much you intend to screw your customers...

    15. Re:Bad news for the UK by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Which doesn't explain why
      1. Console games cost 60€, which is a 50% overcharge compared to the US prices.
      2. PC games cost 40-45€ despite having proper translations (Nintendo only changes the text, all voice acting remains in English) and not being delayed for months in Europe.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    16. Re:Bad news for the UK by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Yes but console games don't use that 1$:1€ conversion, they use 1$:1.2€ which means a 50% markup on games. The PC market is not subject to these markups.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    17. Re:Bad news for the UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gawdamn UKaians, it affects people in the rest of Europe too.

    18. Re:Bad news for the UK by hattig · · Score: 1

      It's still more expensive even taking VAT into account. By around £20 over the US, and £10 over the EU.

      Hell, some countries in Europe have >20% tax, yet their Wiis are going to cost less than in the UK, a country that doesn't even need a translation done for it. And PAL is used by more people than NTSC worldwide, and any modern graphics chip will be able to output PAL or NTSC anyway, without extra hardware.

      The law can explain the higher cost than the US - more consumer rights suggests higher costs, because you can't shovel near-crap on people and then say 'sowwee, too late, you suck' to them. But the laws will generally be EU-wide.

      However I'm sick and tired of the UK being more expensive than the EU. Tell me once again why we haven't adopted the Euro - it really seems to be costing us dearly.

    19. Re:Bad news for the UK by gzunk · · Score: 1

      Except of course that us in the UK also sometimes get shafted with a 1:1 parity between GBP and USD. When in fact it's more like 1.8:1.

    20. Re:Bad news for the UK by Shihar · · Score: 1

      I dont see any reason for the 15-17% price difference at all (VAT already counted out) (Well even the income of the employees is lower than what they have to pay in the IS), except for pure greed.

      So let me get this straight, you attribute the price difference to "pure greed"? I am going to take a wild swing and guess that you are not an economist. Look, it is very simple. Nintendo wants to reap the most profit it can in ALL regions. "Pure greed" is their motive no matter where they sell. They are not a non-profit company altruistically spreading merriment and cheer to the videogame fanatics of the world. They sell a product for a profit. Further, they sell that product for the highest profit they can achieve. They charge the price they charge in the US, Japan, and Britain because they think that is the most profitable price to sell at. They realize that the lower the price the sell for, the more they sell. The higher price they sell for, the less they sell. Somewhere there is an equilibrium where raising or lowering the price results less profit. In Britain, they apparently think that that equilibrium price is higher then in the US.

      The real question is why does Nintendo think that selling in Britain at a higher price is a good idea? The answer isn't voodoo, magic, or the equally mystical answer of "pure orphan eating, baby burning, city pillaging greed". What is the answer? I don't know for sure, but I would likely guess it is regulatory cost. The EU in general has higher environmental standards then the US on electronics. Tougher regulations translate into higher prices. The EU also has stronger anti-import measures then the US that also could contribute to your higher price.

      Do yourself a favor and pick up a book on economics. The world will seem a lot less malevolent and make for more sense if you do. I suggest reading The Hidden Order. It is economics 101 in a relativly easy to digest package with good examples. It exists somewhere between a pop economics book and a text book.

    21. Re:Bad news for the UK by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      with some exceptions lead is no longer allowed in electronic products sold in the EU (the solder itself can still be sold for use in repair work of existing products with lead solder in and for use in stuff that is exempt)

      in japan while there is no ban on lead waste responsibility rules make using it a decidedly bad idea. the US is really the only first world country that still doesn't give a fuck on the issue of lead and other hazourdous substances ending up in the general waste system from consumer electronics.

      Most of the industry has responded to this by switching entirely to lead free, while lead free does have some disadvantages they just aren't big enough for it to be worth having two seperate process setups.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  14. Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free by thewiltog · · Score: 1

    Infinitives requested to not be split

    --
    The price of Wikipedia is eternal vigilance
    1. Re: Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free by Goaway · · Score: 1

      English requested to not be confused with Latin.

    2. Re: Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free by thewiltog · · Score: 1

      To not be or not to be - that is the question

      --
      The price of Wikipedia is eternal vigilance
    3. Re: Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, Titles To Not Be Capitalized Consistently.

      (When capitalizing the words in a title, one should probably capitalize 'To Be'. I assume Oxford style, since that's what most people in the US try to use. And of course, when 'To' is used as a preposition, then it needn't be capitalized.)

    4. Re: Wii Now Confirmed to Not be Region-Free by John+Nowak · · Score: 1

      Eh, the GP has a point. The title is entirely unreadable, and heeding this rule would've made it less so. Considering that this isn't really confirming what we expected, it should really be:

      "Wii will be region-locked"

      A hell of a lot easier to read, isn't it?

  15. Forget it then by drsquare · · Score: 2, Informative

    With the wii already a third more expensive in Britain, no doubt the games will have a similar markup.

    1. Re:Forget it then by radish · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't 30% more expensive. Go look up "sales tax" and "VAT".

      --

      ---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"

    2. Re:Forget it then by MemoryDragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well the current VAT less price in the US for the shovelware bundle, is around 178 Euros, but over here they charge 250 Euros for the same even if you count in 17% VAT average which really is average for europe. You are around 208 Euros, I assume the import taxes are pretty much the same here as in the US so I will leave that out and do not compare it to the japanese price which is way lower (no shovelware bundle to justify the higher price) We have a 16% price difference which goes straight into Nintendos pockets thanks to SCAMMING their own customer base over a self assumed price parity of 1 USD is one Euro...! The rest I can say is get your calc out and do the math yourself...

    3. Re:Forget it then by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      A third would be a bargain. Standard console pricing is a 50% markup in Europe.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:Forget it then by cmdrpaddy · · Score: 1

      Actually 250 USD is 197.66 Euro, and when you add on the 21% VAT you have to pay here in Ireland, the total price comes in at around 240 Euro.
      So they are 'overcharging' by 10 Euro. I suspect what Nintendo has done is to just take the highest VAT rate in Europe (Sweden and Denmark are at 25% I think making the console cost around 247 Euro) and apply that to the exchange rate price. I don't really mind, I suppose it could be another N64 game I could download but whatever I do I'll still end up having great fun when drunk playing with my Wii.

    5. Re:Forget it then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sweden and Denmark dosen't have the Euro

  16. Off-topic: sig reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    By your sig's logic you can give me credit for preventing an asteroid attack on the planet. My anti-asteroid device has been working perfectly -- no attacks yet! Credit where credit's due please.

    1. Re:Off-topic: sig reply by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      By your sig's logic you can give me credit for preventing an asteroid attack on the planet. My anti-asteroid device has been working perfectly -- no attacks yet! Credit where credit's due please.

      Your analogy would make sense if Earth was currently going through a massive asteroid field causing world-wide damage, we had been hit with a huge one five years ago, and since putting up an anti-asteroid system over the United States, we had no further occurances despite knowing the asteroids had been consistently trying to hit us.

      (And if you think they're not trying to hit us again with the massive amount of publicity they got last time, you are stunningly naive.)

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    2. Re:Off-topic: sig reply by FLAGGR · · Score: 1

      Where are the dinosaurs again?

    3. Re:Off-topic: sig reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the US hadn't suffered an attack of that magnitude since Pearl Harbor, and that was by a strong Japanese military. I guess that means it took one, organized by guys who live in caves no less, to get Bush up to the level of competence the 60 years of preceeding presidents had.

      Yea, you're an idiot.

    4. Re:Off-topic: sig reply by mjhacker · · Score: 1

      If you're talking about that retarded 9/11 conspiracy theory, "Loose Change," I think Maddox has the best argument against that load of crap.

  17. Nintendo hates Europe by eboot · · Score: 2, Informative

    Actually Ive got the inside scoop on this region issue. Nintendo are constructing a special magical field put around it. Its called the FuckYouEuropeField, whenever a european enters europe with the wrong coded region console/game, the unit will automatically self-destruct, taking the offender, or as Nintendo calls them 'EuroScum', with it.

    --
    Two tears in a bucket. Motherfuck it.
    1. Re:Nintendo hates Europe by Kamineko · · Score: 1

      Is it manufactured by Sony?

  18. Portable Games? by setirw · · Score: 1

    Why is this filed under the "Portable Games" category?

    --
    This message printed on 100% post-consumer recycled electrons.
    1. Re:Portable Games? by DaSH+Alpha · · Score: 1

      Not that I agree, but the Wii is pretty small...

    2. Re:Portable Games? by egjertse · · Score: 1

      Hey! Speak for yourself.

    3. Re:Portable Games? by Taagehornet · · Score: 1

      A subtle joke perhaps?

    4. Re:Portable Games? by Ekarderif · · Score: 1

      Nah, he's speaking for all Asians.

  19. News of XMas 2007 by Opportunist · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Finally, Sony has launched its PS3 right for the Christmas sales, at least in Japan. Last year, when Nintendo's Wiii hit the shelves, initial sales were stunningly low until about March. Various groups blamed this on the hack published in February that allowed region lock to be circumvented. Nintendo was not available for comment.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:News of XMas 2007 by voxel · · Score: 1

      Yeah whatever. You're not going to buy a Wii only because you can't buy games from foreign countries. Sure sure.

      Don't go into market analysis for a living. Keep your day job.

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
  20. region-locked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Could it be as simple as there being no specific region codes... but pal/ntsc versions being incompatible? (so usa/japan(ntsc) games would be interchangeable with each other, but not european(pal) games?)

  21. /me being pissed by MemoryDragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Dont get me wrong, I am not anti Nintendo, I am as Nintendo neutral as anyone can be. But I can see the history. Nintendo has a long history of stumbling over their own arrogance.

    This time it seems the rule not the exception. They had everything right, the momentum was there after E3, everyone loved the console, which ought to be not the latest in technology bug cheaper than the rest and with a new controller enabling good gaming ideas.

    And now... Scam pricing to ripp off different regions: Hint at Nintendo, even 250 USD is not 250 Euros, even with the VAT calculated out the thing still is more expensive than the US version.

    Enforced bundles so they can hike prices in certain areas: Hint at nintendo, an enforced Wii sports bundle does not help sales, it would have been better to sell the console for 200 and let the people decide which game to buy, in the end you will lose money on that decision.

    Hidden costs: Hint at Nintendo: charging another 60 dollars for another controller set pushes you way over the XBOX360 pricewise.

    Dropped features: No dvd, while not being really important anymore, they could at least have offered dvd as buyable option instead of leaving it out entirely.

    Region Codes: While this was heavily promoted, region codes suck, europeans hate them, some americans as well, go for it Nintendo. You just give certain people a legal justification for selling modchips.



    I have yet to see a single company pissing so many people off in such a short period of time, the discussions in the forums, basically have all the same tone (wtf did you think nintndo i do not want the f*** wee sports just for price hiking) like Nintendo has last week, they had everything in place. Ship the console for 200 Euros no bundle, plain, no discussion lots of sales. They have the DS momentum on their side. Now if Microsoft just drops their prices 50 europs over here, Nintendo lies flat and dead in its starting position and ends up with a Cube like fiasko.

    1. Re:/me being pissed by MrJynxx · · Score: 1

      They're not silly enough to keep the price 250 across the board. You're only taking into account the american/euro/pound and comparing the exchange rates from american ->euro/pound which of course will mean more money than just 250USD.

      They've confirmed the Canadian WII will cost 279.99(which is pretty much bang on in terms of exchange rate) and not 250 so I suspect they are careful about the exchange rate.. I'm sure if it was 250 in Canada all of the americans will come up here to buy it!

      MrJynxx

    2. Re:/me being pissed by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      You have not gotten my point entirely, Canada is pretty much at the same price level as the US, while they run the usual, we do a 1:1 250 parity between Dollar and Euro over here, while in fact even with the VAT counted in, the price should be more along 215-220 Euros. Lots of people are pissed over this over here, because they see a Scam when it happens. Apple also has done that quite often in the past, and Apple europe has lost lots of sales over this (and still does not getting it why apple germany almost was bankrupt and still lags a lot behind a lot in sales compared to the US division, same goes for other european divisions)

      This exchange rate scam is not accepted over here very politely especially when it is used to hike prices over a sensitive pricepoint.

      As I said a Nintendo DS with no bundle for 199 Euros still would be way more expensive than the japanese version, but this would be the perfect starting pricepoint for the thing over here.

      Now with 250 Euros and a bundle game, almost no one wants, they are dangerously close to the xbox 360 and a small pricecut on Microsofts side could shoot them entirely out of the market before they were even able to build up any momentum.

    3. Re:/me being pissed by denebian+devil · · Score: 1

      Do you think Nintendo is going to lose 20% of its potential market from their decision to make the price $50 more than expected? Because that's what it would take for their decision to break even, let alone actually start to hurt them.

    4. Re:/me being pissed by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      The break even even would be possible with 200 Euros, it still is way more expensive than japan and us even if you calculate out import tax and VAT across europe. And yes, I think the 250 Euro Pricetag will cost them more than 20% of potential sales over here, especially since the entry XB0x 360 is just 300 Euros and could get a price drop soon. And most people over here see the bundle more like shovelware packing (not too many would buy Wii sports, the most uninteresting title of the lineup) just to have prices higher. It is easier to justify this price with a packaged game, than without. Sorry to say that, but pushing the price over 200 euros no matter what, has cost them easily, more than 20% of christmas sales, especially from price sensitive families.

    5. Re:/me being pissed by SageinaRage · · Score: 1

      I really don't see how this is 'stumbling over their own arrogance', when most of these problems are true for all game console manufacturers.

      "Enforced bundles so they can hike prices in certain areas: Hint at nintendo, an enforced Wii sports bundle does not help sales, it would have been better to sell the console for 200 and let the people decide which game to buy, in the end you will lose money on that decision."

      I'm pretty sure they've stated that the price would be 250 regardless. They just packed the game in as an extra.

      "Hidden costs: Hint at Nintendo: charging another 60 dollars for another controller set pushes you way over the XBOX360 pricewise. "

      This is just untrue.

    6. Re:/me being pissed by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      Nintendo DS... 250 Euros... 60 Euros (it definitely will be again 1:1 price
      calculation) 310 Euros...
      XBox 360... 300 Euros... so go figure...
      Nintendo is swimming close to shark territory here.

    7. Re:/me being pissed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Region Coding is just one more reason Wii won't be buying the Wii. /wii!

    8. Re:/me being pissed by grapeape · · Score: 1

      I dont see the problem with the extra $50 concidering what you get. You get better graphics, built in wifi, a kick ass interface and even a game (which to my knowledge hasnt been done at launch time by any console since the SNES). People seem so hung up on the idea that its a "sports" game without giving thought to the idea that its not a traditional sports video game anyway...its an interactive experience from what I have seen and should make for a good way to learn the different ways to interact with the controller.

      Of course the controller costs more than a regular gamepad, its far far more complicated, between the motion sensing and sound alone justify it imho. Im sure third party ones will come out within weeks anyway. The other lame argument I have heard was that virtual console games and gc games will make people buy the "classic controller" spending yet another 20-30 dollars...why not use the 4 game ports on the wii and plug in an old gc controller you can get them just about anywhere for around $10 now.

      The main complaints I have seen seem to mostly be contradictory, I actually read one where the person was complaining about the lack of hdmi and wifi only in the same post. Evidently a $2000 tv is affordable but a $20 dollar wireless router isnt.

      The lack of movie capability is one of the bigger complaints, but how many people really use their console as their primary dvd player? The other is the lack of a harddrive to store virtual game console games. One thing that seems to be overlooked is the SD slot, cheap game saves and the possibility of media playback through those (4gig sd cards can be found for around $100) As for virtual game console games, you can fit nearly every game ever made for your region for the snes in less than 2gigs.

      Sure there are various ways you can break down the prices with accessories to make it more expensive but adding the equivalent to the other consoles also pushes their prices up further, most tend to leave that out.

    9. Re:/me being pissed by Shadwhawk · · Score: 1

      Or you could, you know, also add the cost of an additional controller to the X360 price like you're doing to the Wii (I presume you meant to put "Nintendo Wii" and not "Nintendo DS"). Or perhaps two, since Wii controllers are wireless, and the X360 controller in the 300 euro package is wired. So that'd bump the price up to, what, 400 euros for a X360 with two wireless controllers? While a Wii with two wireless controllers is 310?

    10. Re:/me being pissed by cgenman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why be aggrivated? None of your points seem like particular deal breakers.

      The sports thing isn't a bundle. It doesn't raise their per-item cost any to include a game they've sunk the development costs into. They're just returning (for better or worse) to the old days when standard operating procedure was to throw in something for the player to do with the console. They said they were going to launch "under 250," which almost always means 249.99. Now they're at a 250 launch point, and they threw in a 50c piece of plastic to make it that much more attractive. If they didn't include the disk, they wouldn't save any hardware costs they'd just be giving less to the players.

      As for the 250 dollars vs 250 Euros... you should realize by now that's standard operating procedure. Apple does it, IBM does it. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's pretty much always done. Look at it this way: that's more expensive for you because your economy is not in the crapper. Doesn't that make you feel better? If nothing else distribution is more expensive in Europe due to the stronger Euro. The Yen has been falling across the board. Usually Japanese consumers get the most expensive system due to exchange issues, but this time it's the Europeans.

      60 dollars for a controller is steep, but a wireless Xbox 360 controller is 50 bucks. Add in motion sensing for 10 and you're there. For a full system with 2 controllers, that puts the Wii at 310, and the X360 at 450. It narrows the gap as a percentage of full system cost, but the Wii is still clearly cheaper.

      40 dollars for a 64 MB memory card on the 360? That's gouging.

      And maybe they should have released the bare system without the game as a sign that they're keeping everything as cheap as possible, even though it would be at the same price point. The perception of value is more important than actual value in consumer transactions.

      I have yet to see a single company pissing so many people off in such a short period of time

      Are you making a Sony reference here?

    11. Re:/me being pissed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why should Nintendo price lower because you have higher taxes? are you some sort of retard?

    12. Re:/me being pissed by LKM · · Score: 1

      Wii Sports does not cost Nintendo 50 bucks. The controller costs 60 bucks because there's more in it than in the controllers for the Xbox or the PS3 (that's why you get the cheaper controllers to add to the main controller). Do you know anyone who doesn't already have a DVD drive? I agree with the other points, but guess what, Microsoft and Sony are doing the exact same thing with region codes and price markups.

      And one more thing: Lower price does not always mean more sales. Sometimes it also means that people perceive something as being cheap and thus not worth buying.

    13. Re:/me being pissed by MemoryDragon · · Score: 1

      You still dont get it do you? Nintendo does not price lower if it would price the same including the VAT the DS would cost here around 208 Euro... They charge 250 Euro over here, which means they sack in a hefty extra 15% of the price, just because it looks good on paper that 1 Euro is 1 Dollar, neglecting the real exchange rate.

    14. Re:/me being pissed by grumbel · · Score: 1
      Do you know anyone who doesn't already have a DVD drive?

      I don't know people who don't have a DVD drive, but I know plenty of people who are using the PS2 or XBox as DVD player, which means they can't just swap them away and replace them with a Wii, but still have to keep them around for DVD watching. Not a big issue thing, but certainly an annoying one.

    15. Re:/me being pissed by denebian+devil · · Score: 1

      But it doesn't really matter if it costs them 20% of sales "over there" if it doesn't cost them that much in other markets (such as the US), assuming that if they priced it at 200 Euros, they would feel compelled to also price it at USD$200. If, as a result of the increased price and bundling, they lose over 20% of the European market, but worldwide still lose less than 20%, they still make more money in the end.

    16. Re:/me being pissed by Ailure · · Score: 1

      Wii had DVD features in first place? I never saw anything like that planned.

    17. Re:/me being pissed by archen · · Score: 1

      1) I've never heard anyone claim the Wii could play DVDs in the first place.
      2) You can play DVDs with some sort of add on. If playing DVD's is that important to you, then by all means go and buy the add on. I'd just as soon have the console cheaper since I already have 6 systems capable of playing DVDs in my living room.

    18. Re:/me being pissed by archen · · Score: 1

      My mistake about the addon. Guess if you want a DVD addon, you can buy a DVD player for $60 =P

    19. Re:/me being pissed by RyoShin · · Score: 1
      I have yet to see a single company pissing so many people off in such a short period of time
      You obviously haven't been paying attention to Sony's PS3 announcements. $499 minimum price, the games will be between $60 and $90, Europe and Australia have to wait until Spring '07 for their consoles, Japan and Nintendo only get 500K units between them, and those are just the bigger things off the top of my head. I'm miffed with the pricing scheme and some of the decisions Nintendo has made, but they still pale in comparison to the PS3's issues, and I still plan on buying one.
    20. Re:/me being pissed by LKM · · Score: 1

      Yeah, if you only want one player next to your TV, it's an issue. It doesn't matter to me. I have a DVD player (code-free, divx compatible - I'm living in europe, so the non-code-free Wii DVD player would be useless to me anyway), a VHS player and a stereo. In addition to that, I have a bunch of consoles. So one more or less doesn't matter to me...

      But would somebody really replace the Xbox/PS2 with a Wii if it could play DVDs? Because then you couldn't play your PS/Xbox games anymore. And DVD players are like 30 bucks a piece, half what a Wii controller costs...

    21. Re:/me being pissed by grumbel · · Score: 1
      But would somebody really replace the Xbox/PS2 with a Wii if it could play DVDs?

      Not instantly, but sooner or later for sure, the old games don't get any more interesting with age and new ones won't get released anymore sooner or later for those old consoles, so its just natural to let the new consoles replace the old ones.

    22. Re:/me being pissed by LKM · · Score: 1

      Well... I guess I'm the exception, but I actually have (among other consoles) an Atari 2600, an NES and a SNES (semi-permanently) hooked up to my beamer :-D

      (Although the SNES picture has a weird kind of "jitter" when playing it on my beamer - works fine when playing on the TV.)

    23. Re:/me being pissed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Japan and Nintendo only get 500K units between them,


      Nintendo is a country now?
  22. I wouldn't trust Nintendo UK. by Andrew+Kismet · · Score: 3, Informative

    They're always last to hear the news. I trust Perrin Kaplan over David Yarnton.
    They're region loocked: http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/732/732982p1.html
    They're not region locked: http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/732/732748p1.html
    Madness.

    1. Re:I wouldn't trust Nintendo UK. by Fred+Or+Alive · · Score: 1

      Well, apparently some Nintendo US spokesman says it's region locked. And therefore, if I get a Revolution, I'll be importing it from the US to avoid Nintendo's traditional policy of screwing Europe.

      --
      10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU ";
      20 GOTO 10
    2. Re:I wouldn't trust Nintendo UK. by PhotoBoy · · Score: 1

      Wasn't David Yarnton the one who categorically denied to the media that there were any plans for a new re-designed Nintendo DS about 3 days before Nintendo announced the Lite? He was either deliberately lying to the media or so far out of the loop that he didn't even know what products were on his roadmap for the rest of the year.

      Maybe the US/Japanese Wiis won't be region locked, but systems in PAL territories will be, to avoid people complaining to Nintendo that their PAL TV won't display an NTSC image? Hopefully we'll find out soon!

    3. Re:I wouldn't trust Nintendo UK. by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      Pah, in the last couple of years there have been games released for the Cube in Europe that only support a kind of NTSC signal (called PAL60, but basically the same thing). A prominent example is Metroid Prime 2.

  23. There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    They might both be right, and wrong.

    Wii will not have a region, as in USA v.s. Japan. But it will have PAL v.s. NTSC versions. (Stupid UK TVs have a different number of pixels on screen and pixel-aspect ratio).

    Hence, the UK version will be "region" locked whereas the american and japanese versions will be free to share.

    1. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have yet to see a television set in years over here in Europe which is not able to handle NTSC quite nicely, this mode is called over here 60Hz mode and the old analog tv sets have been able to handle that since the good ole VCR days. Heck even my old 25 year old portable tv could handle the 60Hz mode....

    2. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 60Hz mode on a lot of televisions in the UK is PAL60. This is a variant of PAL that runs at 60 fields per second, instead of the standard 50, and a lower number of scanlines. Converting from NTSC to PAL60 is easy (the number of lines and frame rate are the same, it's just the colour encoding that's different), and so it is a good investment if you are looking for a TV to watch NTSC videos or DVDs on; most DVD players can output PAL60 for DVDs that are encoded for American audiences, since they are just 30fps (interlaced) MPEG-2 streams and can be converted to PAL or NTSC equally easily.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      That doesn't explain why I can set my PS2 to NTSC output and the Gamecube plays NTSC games just fine once the region lock is circumvented.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by orospakr · · Score: 1

      It doesn't really matter anymore. All modern games just used the 3D controller to render to what is ultimately a dumb framebuffer. The only TV-standard related function here might be vsync, and that functionality is almost always abstracted in some way. Back in the day, older game consoles like the Genesis and Super Nintendo (and even older than that, like the NES or Commodore 64) used things called raster effects, in which the game could manipulate the path of the pixels to the display on a scanline basis. This allowed developers to produce some nifty effects at minimal CPU time expense. Also, the TV standard refresh frequency (vsync did not exist back then, of course) also dictated the speed of the game, so the PAL version of Super Mario Bros. would run more quickly on an NTSC machine. Today the timing is completely unrelated to the display system. Nowadays those methods are obsolete, and most games are completely TV-standard agnostic, and all "region-coding" is purely for 'business' reasons, like price fixing.

    5. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by tepples · · Score: 1
      All modern games just used the 3D controller to render to what is ultimately a dumb framebuffer.

      Which is 20 percent larger on 50 Hz PAL than on 60 Hz NTSC. A larger frame buffer requires more RAM, which in turn requires a reallocation of texture memory.

    6. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They might both be right, and wrong.

      Wii will not have a region, as in USA v.s. Japan. But it will have PAL v.s. NTSC versions. (Stupid UK TVs have a different number of pixels on screen and pixel-aspect ratio).

      Hence, the UK version will be "region" locked whereas the american and japanese versions will be free to share.


      Here, let me rework that for you:

      "They might not be up, and down.

      Wii will have a region, as in Cardassia v.s. Romulan. But it won't have marshmallow v.s. cookie versions. (Stupid Klingon cookies have a different number of chocolate chips on cookie and broken-crumb ratio).

      Hence, the Breen version will be "crumbled" crushed whereas the vulcans and orion versions will be free to stale."

      There, all fixed! Have a nice day! :-)

    7. Re:There's a Technical Reason you dorks. by iainl · · Score: 1

      Given that many of the latter 1st-party Gamecube games have a little "60Hz only" tag on them because Nintendo Europe couldn't even be arsed to convert them to PAL, you can forget that little excuse.

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  24. What really happened... by Xest · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nintendo US and Nintendo Japan had their events, completely forgetting about Europe with Europe being something console manufacturers apparently don't care that much about with the increased prices and the fact they're always last for console and game releases. Nintendo US and Japan rejoice in the fact that the Wii is in fact probably region free between those countries and mention this publicly. Then someone remembers Europe, Europe no doubt being the centre of shaftdom, a place where companies can screw consumers to the Nth degree without fear of reprisals and brings up the fact that Europe can't in fact use games from Japan or the US because they intend to charge more in Europe to rip customers off and hence they have to correct their mistake that whilst Japan and the US can enjoy game swapping, Europe can't. Okay, now back to reality somewhat I realise that's a totally cynical view and I'm probably off mark but on the same note it is getting kind of tiresome in Europe that we're treated so much worse in terms of releases of games and gaming equipment. The US version of the Wii is going to cost £133, whereas the European version will cost £179. I certainly realise we suffer taxes much more here and I realise with our strong currencies it costs a little more to distribute it here, however I fail to beleive that those two factors add up to a 25% price increase for Europe - some of it HAS to be greed on the manufacturers part, plain and simple. Also, the fact we get it later also adds insult to injury. So whilst my original point had a strong hint of over the top cynicism, I can't help but feel that it might have some slight truth to it that the reason the Wii is region locked - whether for Europe only or all 3 regions that it's again because of sheer greed by Nintendo. I really want a Wii, but when someone's trying to screw me I do feel very tempted to just not bother, not give them my money and buy something else instead. One final note, I do realise Nintendo aren't the only ones guilty of this, I guess I just hoped that Nintendo weren't going to screw Europe like Microsoft did and Sony will... I hoped they were better than that, oh well :/

    1. Re:What really happened... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I really want a Wii, but when someone's trying to screw me I do feel very tempted to just not bother

      I really *REALLY* wanted a WII... but now... I'm not so eager anymore.

      The previous generation I had a choice between a PS2, GameCube and XBOX. I got the GameCube but I should have bought the PS2.

      There's no games for the GameCube. At least, most of the game shops - even the specialized ones - have none or a very limited selection (newest A titles only). 3 walls is PS2 games, one wall is XBOX games.

      (I also have an XBOX but I bought after their last price drop just to screw microsoft - so I can't buy games for it.)

      250EUR tells me I'd better sit this one out and see who 'wins' this generation.

      It's not as if I'll just die if I don't have a new console this year. Barely have time to play it anyway.

      I consider myself to be in that elusive casual gamer group they're supposed to be targeting... If I'm anything to go by, they're going to miss their mark.

      So much so I might actually be pushed into imagining I might eventually think about being persuaded into buying a 360... Eventhough most 360 games are crap. ..Crap in that they take too much time and skill to be fun to play for me, anyway.

    2. Re:What really happened... by yetanotherusername · · Score: 1

      and after you spend more on the console how about another £100 ($180) on an extra controller + numbchuck, I'll be waiting a while before buying as I'd want at least one extra controller. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Wii-Controller/dp /B000IMFNRU/sr=8-41/qid=1158583650/ref=sr_1_41/026 -4423825-4886013?ie=UTF8&s=gateway http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nintendo-Wii-Nunchuck-Cont roller-add-/dp/B000IMDMQE/sr=8-46/qid=1158582995/r ef=sr_1_46/026-4423825-4886013?ie=UTF8&s=gateway

  25. PAL/NTSC by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

    Even without region lockouts, when taking things from US/Japan to Europe/Australia, you still have to deal with PAL vs. NTSC.

    At least that isn't a problem with HDTV, but I don't think the Wii supports HDTV, unlike its contemporaries.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:PAL/NTSC by MemoryDragon · · Score: 2, Informative

      ntsc conversion never has been a big issue over here in europe.

    2. Re:PAL/NTSC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NTSC is a non-issue when you use an RGB SCART here... It also has the best non-hdtv picture quality you can get. Ive said screw european crap a while ago and only run US/JAP hardware here with RGB and a stepdown converter. Even after import and postage my games are still cheaper and i usually get them faster too than euo versions.

    3. Re:PAL/NTSC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another reason to get an import kit, at least for HDTV-owning, English-speaking PAL-landers, is that it is also likely that only the NTSC Wii consoles will support 480p.

    4. Re:PAL/NTSC by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      You don't even need to use RGB SCART, the PS2 does NTSC even in PAL titles and with composite input.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    5. Re:PAL/NTSC by antime · · Score: 1

      Amazingly PC developers have been able to cope with differing resolutions and frame rates for over ten years. Maybe some day this highly advanced technology will penetrate the thick skull of console developers?

    6. Re:PAL/NTSC by antime · · Score: 1

      If your TV supports NTSC encoding you don't, otherwise RGB is the way to go. (Your TV still needs to support 60Hz, but if it has an RGB SCART socket it almost certainly does.)

    7. Re:PAL/NTSC by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      That's because there's only one way to send that signal over a PC video cable. There is only one display standard (with varying resolutions)

      When it comes to TV there isn't a standard, NTSC uses different color encoding than PAL or SECAM does.

    8. Re:PAL/NTSC by antime · · Score: 1

      The colour encoding is done by the hardware, the developer doesn't need to care about it beyond possibly setting a mode bit in the init code (and choose a colour scheme that works on NTSC). The issue is that many console developers still code their games with a fixed 60Hz or 50Hz refresh rate in mind, and with a fixed resolution. When the display parameters change, the effects range from the game running at the wrong speed, squished/chopped off graphics to breaking the game completely. The only reason for this is crap code that really is inexcusable in this day and age.

  26. Schrödinger's Console by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the Wii will be either region-free or region-locked and the only way to be absolutely sure is to buy it.
    I only hope it won't be in some kind of quantum superstate between the two.

  27. Not in the U.S. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know where you live, but in the United States, the vast majority of DVD players are region locked, and most people don't know or care.

    The only people who have region-free players are people who've hacked them (some models had override codes you could put in) or who bought them overseas.

    Most people go down to Wal-Mart, plunk down their $30, and buy whatever's on the end of the aisle, on sale. They barely stop to look at the name of the brand, much less anything so esoteric as region coding.

    This will have a greater affect on people in Europe than in the U.S.; people here just don't care enough about imported content (with the exception of people who are into stuff from Japan) to notice region coding. Most Americans don't travel (and thus wouldn't come into possession of a foreign-region disc), don't speak any other languages (and so most foreign content is useless to them), and have enough domestic content available that they're not dying to get their hands on stuff from abroad.

    The very small percentage of people who care about having a region-free DVD player or game console will pay the price premium necessary to acquire one on the grey market. With DVD players this usually means getting one originally destined for Europe or Asia, and with game consoles this means installing a mod chip. I don't think the Nintendo Rev--excuse me, Wii--will be any different in this regard. The very small number of gamers who want to play Japanese import games will get a mod chip.

    The biggest effect that the region coding will have in the United States is that it creates a semi-legitimate excuse for mod chips to exist. If there wasn't region coding, and thus the excuse of wanting to be able to override the console's programming and play foreign games, then mod chips would be viewed more as a purely piracy-oriented tool; as it is, it's pretty easy to market them (with a hefty wink-wink-nudge-nude, know what I mean).

    As someone who's never bought an un-modded console, I'd like to take a moment to thank Nintendo for this development. The modchip manufacturers and blank-DVD producers of the world salute you.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Not in the U.S. by bogjobber · · Score: 1
      as it is, it's pretty easy to market them (with a hefty wink-wink-nudge-nude, know what I mean).

      Thank God I never decided to get a mod chip. I had no idea there would be crazy naked marketing parties.

      Actually, on second thought...

    2. Re:Not in the U.S. by Talez · · Score: 1

      They barely stop to look at the name of the brand, much less anything so esoteric as region coding.

      Region coding is not a food!

    3. Re:Not in the U.S. by axotlprogeny · · Score: 1

      "Most people go down to Wal-Mart, plunk down their $30, and buy whatever's on the end of the aisle, on sale. They barely stop to look at the name of the brand, much less anything so esoteric as region coding."

      The ironic thing is that a good percentage of those very DVD players are in fact region free.

    4. Re:Not in the U.S. by kamapuaa · · Score: 1
      Most Americans don't travel (and thus wouldn't come into possession of a foreign-region disc), don't speak any other languages (and so most foreign content is useless to them), and have enough domestic content available that they're not dying to get their hands on stuff from abroad.

      Huh, 20% of Americans speak a language besides English at home, and 50% speak a foreign language. 7% of Americans go abroad in any given year.

      A more realistic explanation is, first that US movies dominate world cinema, and secondly that there is enough demand in the US for foreign DVDs, that the DVDs are readily available in region-free or region 0 NTSC versions. Certainly that's true for Indian and HK movies, they are the two largest non-US producers of content. As a movie buff who used to live in the US, I can say pretty much everything was easily available, without requiring a region-free DVD player.

      And, of course, English subtitles are very common for DVDs. Basically anything recent from Europe, Hong Kong, Korea, or India will have English subtitles.

      It appears you are a US resident who doesn't know anything about international cinema? You should give it a try, there's some great stuff out there!

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    5. Re:Not in the U.S. by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Huh, 20% of Americans speak a language besides English at home, and 50% speak a foreign language. 7% of Americans go abroad in any given year.

      Ouch... Numbers that big must have REALLY hurt when pulling them out of your ass.

      Cite please?

    6. Re:Not in the U.S. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those numbers are probably the ones for North America, not for Yankee Imperialist Bastardistan.

  28. I don't know about the Wii... by sd_diamond · · Score: 4, Funny

    But I hear that its followup, the WWii, is going to take American markets completely by suprise and, for a while at least, completely dominate the Pacific Rim.

  29. I'm guessing this is NoE by KDR_11k · · Score: 3, Interesting

    NoE loves annoying the hell out of their customers and generally try to make us realize we're much better off with a PC. Wouldn't surprise me if NoA made everything region free but NoE added a lock so Europeans can't use those region free games.

    Maybe I should respect their wish and not buy a Wii, then.

    --
    Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  30. Fanbois with their eyes closed by jchenx · · Score: 2
    I'm waiting for the word from Nintendo of Japan before I believe anything.

    Oh come on. Now, I know fanbois generally have the habit of accepting any good rumors and denying any bad news, but you're just being silly. It's not like this was a rumor from the "Interweb", but something that's been confirmed several times (see the links in the original story). Here's in all likelihood what happened:

    1) VP of Marketing at US conference announces that Wii is not region locked for some reason (probably some a mistake/confusion on their part)
    2) Nintendo freaks out and realizes the mistake
    3) However, Nintendo is not about to put out a major press release or bring out Iwata to say, "Oh we ARE region locked" ... you don't do that with bad news
    4) So, Nintendo tactfully announces the bad news in the UK conference, and clarifies to the media the mistake that was made

    Those fanbois who think that "Oh, it didn't come from NOJ, so it must not be true!" are doing EXACTLY what Nintendo intended (either purposely or as a "convenient side-effect") to do, which was build enough doubt that its most ardent supporters will still think that it's region-free, while not outright lying to the media.

    Now, I imagine what some of the confusion might stem from is that first-party titles are not region-locked, so there might be some truth to what the VP of Marketing said, but it certainly isn't what most fans really wanted (which was no region-locking functionality in the hardware at all, preventing 3rd parties from using it).

    That said, I'm not blaming or looking down on Nintendo for not being able to make the Wii region-free. I happen to know how difficult it is to do this, from a business standpoint, although it obviously sucks for consumers. I applaud Nintendo for at least having its portables being region-free. And it is unfortunate that they screwed up the announcement in the first place, but mistakes happen.

    What I just can't stand is "fanboism", which results in gamers like you that are willing to be misled so easily. Let's be realistic here. :P
    --
    -- jchenx
    1. Re:Fanbois with their eyes closed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, I imagine what some of the confusion might stem from is that first-party titles are not region-locked

      Wait wait wait, so there are region free games? This was the understanding I came away with from the NoA presentation: that first party games will not be locked, but like the PSP, the facility for other publishers to lock their games will be available.

      I don't know where people got the idea that the hardware itself would be incapable of regionlocking. Everyone I know who was following the conference came away with the same impression that I did.

    2. Re:Fanbois with their eyes closed by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 1

      The parent proves that the grandparents is completely unfounded in their reasoning. The fact that even HE can't get his story straight shows there IS doubt, and that an announcement from NoJ is really the best way to clear this whole thing up, and by saying that, I'm not just being a fanboi: I truthfully don't know what the hell is going on, one way or the other, and a nice clear announcement would at least confirm it, set it in stone.

      The sooner Nintendo puts this behind them (whether the thing is region free or not), the better off they'll be.

      --
      No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
    3. Re:Fanbois with their eyes closed by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Your only problem (besides using it as an offtopic rant against Nintendo Fans), is that you've boxed yourself into thinking of Nintendo as one, single entity with a central mind. No business is ever that unified, especially an international one. We commonly like to think of a big business as an evil overlord, which is completely set on domination, where every worker is a borg doing exactly as they're told. If you're getting this impression, that's only because it's what a big business WANTS you to think, because it would be even worse if the public were to see behind the thin-vail of public unification to realize that it's all one big sprawling corporate power struggle, with different branches and divisions constantly at each other's throats, viaing for their voices to be heard. For their own good, though, everyone agrees to keep their public persona looking squeeky-clean. But what we see here is one branch saying "enough is enough, I'm going public with this disagreement!" Mother-ship is probably none too pleased at this, and will probably try to put Nintendo EU in its place, especially seeing that public shaming (which is what they did to Nintendo of America) is extremely taboo in Japanese culture. I think we'll soon see a pretty strong response from Nintendo of Japan, clarifying their statements, and by clarifying, I mean telling Nintendo of EU to "grow up and deal with it." I don't say this out of any love of Nintendo (though I do like their products), but as a realistic assessment of coorperate power structure.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    4. Re:Fanbois with their eyes closed by jchenx · · Score: 1
      The parent proves that the grandparents is completely unfounded in their reasoning. The fact that even HE can't get his story straight shows there IS doubt, and that an announcement from NoJ is really the best way to clear this whole thing up, and by saying that, I'm not just being a fanboi: I truthfully don't know what the hell is going on, one way or the other, and a nice clear announcement would at least confirm it, set it in stone.

      As I pointed out already, I think it's really the Nintendo fanbois that are clueless. It seems pretty clear to me and the media, that the Wii is not region-free. And I doubt NoJ is going want to send a clear announcement that their US branch messed up, but I think they may have to "thanks" to the confusion of their hardcore fan-base.

      Also, remember that the whole concept of region-locking is fairly confusing to begin with. Most consumers don't really understand why it's done in the first place. So for many gamers, it would just be an extra bullet point on the back of the box that they never use. They won't miss not having it. It would have been FAR better for Nintendo to just not announce it in the first place.
      --
      -- jchenx
  31. Testing the "public" is stupid by jchenx · · Score: 1
    Imagine you were Nintendo, and not sure about how region locking actually affects sales because there is no hard data on that. Would you consider collecting the data yourself? As in, have two lackeys make contradictory announcements, and watch the customer responses?

    No. Nintendo is a large enough entity that they can afford doing their own customer surveys, polling, studies, etc. rather than "testing the public" through mistakes in their press conferences. You would also do such investigation MUCH earlier, and not 2 months before ship. (And remember, Wii is already in manufacturing already) Whether or not you allow region-locking has far more implications on the business-side, and we should all know how long it can take for legal and business departments (between Nintendo and 3rd party developers) to work things out and agree on something.

    And as someone else mentioned, the "customer responses" are not useful. You would only be polling the hardcore fanbase that actually pays attentions to these press conferences. The bulk of their sales (especially considering Nintendo is going after the more mainstream crowd), will come from people that probably don't even know what region-locking is, and would not understand why anyone in their right mind would import a game that's not in their language.
    --
    -- jchenx
  32. My Mind is Changing... by TheoMurpse · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a person who is bilingual in Japanese and English, I'd planned on buying a Wii and getting games from both sides of the Pacific Ocean (primarily English games, but a few Japanese games that would never be translated and brought to the US). If it is true that the Wii will not be region-free, I don't think I'll be buying one: I make it a point not to buy region-locked things unless I can easily get around them (e.g. DVDs which I play with VLC). I guess I'll wait until someone discovers a hack to get around the region problem.

    Nintendo, you just lost a sale of console and all incidental game purchases I would have made. Congratulations!

    1. Re:My Mind is Changing... by voxel · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and the money they saved on being able to control profits in each region accordingly has heavily out-weighed you not buying one of their consoles.

      Think of the big-time pirates who will buy games by the masses to re-sell in their countries at a big profit because region-locking isn't enabled.

      The only person who is losing out here is you. Have fun not playing a Wii, I'll be enjoying mine.

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    2. Re:My Mind is Changing... by Mongoose · · Score: 1

      Not really. Think of all the people that might get a PS3 for the region free games, and the bluray that plays both Japanese and US blurays. Sure, it's not a large number of people -- however that's one household nintendo won't sell a console or games maybe for this entire generation. Having region free games is very important to me. I own more PSP Japan games than US. It's just great for people like me, and hell I can even write simple games and kanji practice tools for PSP. Hopefully PS3 'hobby SDK' will allow me to even add networking to simple applications and share them with others.

    3. Re:My Mind is Changing... by westlake · · Score: 1
      As a person who is bilingual in Japanese and English,

      You must know that is difficult to get a game or a movie that plays well to both american and japanese audiences. Culture, localization, are the real barriers to export.

    4. Re:My Mind is Changing... by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I do. However, I fail to see how this has anything to do with region-encoding...are you trying to rationalize region encoding as a way for the big, strong Nintendo to protect us puny, weak mortals from hurting ourselves by playing an imported game?

    5. Re:My Mind is Changing... by shadow0_0 · · Score: 1

      My thought as well, especially that it is more expensive in Australia.

    6. Re:My Mind is Changing... by voxel · · Score: 1

      You really have to realize that you are a minute minority, statistically insignificant to Nintendo versus the idea of mass re-selling of foreign games from bulk import/export re-selling.

      Nintendo has to price differently in different countries unfortunately because each country has different standards of living. It really is very simple. Games in China will be much cheaper than in the USA.

      * If the entire planet made the same income and had the same standard of living then region free games wouldn't be an issue. *

      --
      Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
  33. Probably redundant but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's almost guaranteed there will be a gameshark/action replay device for the the Wii that will negate the region lock crap.

    There will be 3rd party controllers, cables and other cack that will cost significantly less than Nintendo's (and Sony's, and Microsoft's, and Sega's...) high prices. Yes, most will be shoddy, but there will be some decent peripherals.

    Games get on the secondhand market very quickly these days, costing a reasonable £30 and less, and if you've gotta have the game/console as soon as they are released then you have to ask yourself why.

  34. Not to worry by BeeBeard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have little doubt that the Wii will be region-unlocked (mod chip, anyone?) and running Linux within the first month of its release.

  35. PC for teh win by C0R1D4N · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So it looks like the PC is coming out ahead in this console generation. I think I'll just shell out 150-200 bucks for a vid card upgrade instead and wait the extra month for the X-Box games to make it to PC. All the good Wii games are gonna be on Gamecube anyway (Well Zelda, that's the only one that really matters) and I have yet to see a PS3 game worth 600 dollars. Sorry console industry, you can only push it so far (SEE: Jaguar)

    1. Re:PC for teh win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and I have yet to see a PS3 game worth 600 dollars. "

      The PS3 costs 499 dumbfuck.

      But you knew that...

    2. Re:PC for teh win by C0R1D4N · · Score: 1

      $499 + Price of game + sales tax = closer to 600 Just because they throw a bunch of 9s at the end doesn't make it cheaper.

  36. Region Rules by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    I think that part of the licensing requirements is that a manufacturer has to comply wth "regioning", among other things...

    Remember the flap Apex got when they made it too easy to get around the mandated restrictions?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  37. Branch War by 7Prime · · Score: 2

    Yeah, it's a Region war... the Allied NTSC against the Axis of PAL. But seriously, it sounds like it's just like that, and I'm guessing that there will be two reginons, maybe three (Australia). Nintendo and Nintendo of America have been growing pretty close, it seems, but the foundering EU Nintendo sales have made European branch a bit defensive, and worried that they're being ignored and crapped upon by the other branches. When you hear statements like this, especially one branch out-right publicly shaming another, you KNOW that there's a power struggle going on up the chain, and not just a miscommunication. There's probably a big disagreement in how the company should market their products internationally, and Europe may feel largely ignored, and possibly sacrificed for the whole. Remember, that in a company that big, it's only logical that branches on either side of the world would have largely different adjendas and ideas on how the company should work.

    Of course, it's the mother ship (Japan) that has the final say, but it doesn't mean that another branch is going ot take it well. I am guessing that what happened was, in am execuative board meeting, Nintendo of America did a fairly good job of stating their case of region-free encoding to Nintendo of Japan, who all but said "let's do it", Nintendo of America comes back here, and at the first possible press confrence, claim their region-free victory. The European branch, however, has put their foot down, and realizing that Japan hasn't made the final call, is stating THEIR victory.

    This doesn't look too good for the European branch. For one, they're already a bit of an outsider, PAL, and probably being largely ignored. Secondly, knowing Japanese culture and business ethics, public ridicule is highly taboo, and Nintendo of Japan is likely to just say, "fuck off, deal with it, and grow up."

    Don't think of Nintendo, as many people do, as a saint, or as an evil demon, think of it as one big (disfunctional) family.

    This kind of stuff happens all the time within companies. What's unique about this, though is that most inter-branch conflicts go on behind closed doors, as everyone agrees that public disagreement will be very bad for the company's image. I work for a small-town ClearChannel TV station (yes I know, their evil), and we're commonly pretty pissed at the mother ship, which ignores our pleas for upgrading out equipment to something at least resembling mid-90s technology. Most of the people in the company do not have a very nice view of CC, and we have no interest in helping them further their media dominance as an entity. To the average middle-man, all they do is tell us what equipment we're supposed to buy (their contracted equipment), tell us what software we can use (all windows... including TV production, where I work, which SHOULD be Final Cut), and ignores us when that system they've forced us into doesn't work. Ya know, when they tell us, "You are forbidden from using Firefox because we have an agreement with Microsoft (and also because our spyware doesn't work well with Firefox)" it doesn't really make you feel all warm and cuddly.

    --
    Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  38. Why permit this obstacle to a free market? by chris_7d0h · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Has a case against region locking ever reached a court in any country?

    I'd imagine the US or at least the EU should have slammed protectionism attempts like these long ago. DVD movies should have provided ample opportunity for making an example out of this free market prevention tactic. Since I still see region coded movie DVDs being sold, I simply have to conclude that the EU has failed miserably in their vigilance to promote free flow of goods. Since the free flow of goods is one of the cornerstones for existance of the EU, this is pretty serious from a European standpoint. It turns the stated goal into a mockery, where one could add subjective exceptions to the statement like "Free flow of goods some goods" or "Free flow of goods unless you pay to get an exception".

    In my mind, there can be no logical reason other than bribery for why region coding / locking is still permitted in countries at least trying to pay lip service to the notion of a free market. No wonder a lot of people in Europe view the EU as a big scam, there to serve not it's citizen foremost, but some other stake holder.

    --
    In a society that believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda ~ Bill Durodié
    1. Re:Why permit this obstacle to a free market? by westlake · · Score: 1
      Has a case against region locking ever reached a court in any country?

      I believe Netflix catalogs about 60,000 Region 1 DVDs, many with multilingual dialogue tracks and captioning. This is the kind of issue that never really gets to the front burner in any major market. Has a case against region locking ever reached a court in any country?

    2. Re:Why permit this obstacle to a free market? by Joel+from+Sydney · · Score: 1

      Yes, it has in Australia, though not quite in the way you describe. There was a court case last year where it was ruled that modding a console or DVD played to circumvent region-locking was legal, as it's not a "copyright protection mechanism". I'm also fairly sure that the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has ruled region-locking as anti-competitive behaviour, though that doesn't mean companies can get prosecuted for doing it.

      Most DVD players sold here are locked to region 4, but almost all of them have override codes to disable the region locking.

    3. Re:Why permit this obstacle to a free market? by NoMaster · · Score: 1
      Has a case against region locking ever reached a court in any country?
      In Australia, it was determined by the ACCC that regional restrictions on DVDs were "an anti-competitive practice and a breach of the Trade Practices Act", on the basis that "It is a breach of Australian law to make an agreement off-shore that harms competition in Australia".

      (No primary source links because the fsckin' ACCC website is down...)

      More relevant to the discussion at hand : the Sony vs Stevens case, where (after much to-ing, fro-ing, and appeals) it was ruled that mod chips to circumvent game region locking were legal, having "substantial non-infringing use" in allowing owners to play imported games.

      Note that the current status of both of these has been considerably muddied by subsequent events, particularly the AUSFTA and copyright amendment reviews.

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    4. Re:Why permit this obstacle to a free market? by LordVader717 · · Score: 1

      With their current regulations, it's only required within europe. So a regional division within the EU (like Nintendo done in the NES days would you believe)would be illegal, but not if it's concerning goods from say japan.

  39. The world has changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Region locking feels like a throwback to a pre-Internet boom, pre-globalization era. Global society is becoming more mobile; moving to another country isn't an unusual thing today. It's easy to see and purchase items from another country across the Internet.

    The world has changed. Time to move on Nintendo.

  40. Do you buy any consoles other than handhelds then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    really?

  41. MORONIC MOVE, NINTENDO !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We had you down as the good guys.

    But it seems we were wrong, and you're actually playing the same games with us as Microsoft and Sony.

    One black mark against you, and a drop in the high esteem with which your Wii plans were being greeted.

    Instead of staying focussed on buying more games, we'll now be spending our time trying to get the region locking cracked. And instead of gleefully buying more games from all over the world and notching up your profits, we have to look to grey or even black imports which are quite likely to be evading your profit channels.

    Bad move Nintendo, very bad move. For you that is. You made a great move from the point of view of Microsoft and Sony.

    1. Re:MORONIC MOVE, NINTENDO !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet another reason why it's a bad move, commercially: those who want to play games from other regions will now be paying the region unlocking companies an extra $80-$120 for the hardware mod (or a premium on top of the normal price if they buy ready-hacked Wii's from them).

      I other words, money that could have been spent to purchase 2-3 Wii games legally from foreign distributors (which would still earn Nintendo money) now goes to someone else's wallet instead.

      Terrible move.

  42. Slashdot Is Being Stupid by rh2600 · · Score: 1

    It's a shame that the editors didn't bother to turn on their brain when looking at this story. Instead they went for the 'dunce digg' approach of regurgitating the story which has been misinterpreted by the poster - probably because it has been mistinterpreted by many other new sites perhaps hoping to drum up some click-hype. To re-iterate... Nintendo of America *never* said the Wii wouldn't be region locked. It said that First party titles from Nintendo will be region free. The *games* not the console! They even went on to say that 3rd party developers could create region locked titles. All Nintendo in Japan are doing is confirming this. The Wii has a region, Nintendo first party games will not be region locked, but other titles may. I expected slashdot to be the beacon of clarification on this topic... guess I hope for too much ;)

  43. Fanbois are the problem by jchenx · · Score: 1
    Mother-ship is probably none too pleased at this, and will probably try to put Nintendo EU in its place, especially seeing that public shaming (which is what they did to Nintendo of America) is extremely taboo in Japanese culture. I think we'll soon see a pretty strong response from Nintendo of Japan, clarifying their statements, and by clarifying, I mean telling Nintendo of EU to "grow up and deal with it." I don't say this out of any love of Nintendo (though I do like their products), but as a realistic assessment of coorperate power structure.

    Well, that's a fanboism statement if I've ever heard one. No, that's what you WANT to happen.

    It's already been a day since the news broke that the Wii is NOT region-free. Even though it's the weekend, if it were true that Nintendo EU was incorrect, don't you think we would have heard otherwise by now? Puh-lease.

    And before anyone accuses me of being anti-Nintendo, I *want* the Wii to succeed, and am also a fan of Nintendo's products. But I don't tie myself to one console either, and I try to be realistic about the things that I read about. I swear, it's the Nintendo fanbois that are going to be the downfall of the Wii. There's been so much hype about the controller everything else about the Wii, that there's the very real danger of disappointment when the system finally gets into people's homes. Let people judge the facts for themselves. Coming up with excuses or denying bad news like this may ultimate hurt Nintendo more than it helps.
    --
    -- jchenx
  44. Wii: Collect all thrii by tepples · · Score: 1
    Or if I end up moving to another country for work for a while... should I have to have relatives purchase the games for me and ship them over whenever I need a new one? C'mon.

    You are expected to collect all 3 Wii consoles, just as you are expected to collect all 151+ Pokémon. Did you really think Nintendo would let you get off paying less than the price of a PS3, which is region free?

  45. Kuru Kuru Kururin by tepples · · Score: 1
    Most Americans ... don't speak any other languages (and so most foreign content is useless to them)

    Americans who can read American English can read British English and Australian English. Most games that show up in Europe and/or Australia but not North America are localised into British English and/or Australian English.

  46. DVD players: collect all 6 by tepples · · Score: 1
    I buy a DVD player for picture quality, not lack of region encoding.

    So when you buy a DVD player, do you habitually buy three DVD players, one for North American discs, one for European and Japanese discs (which are in the same DVD-Video region even if they are not in the same video game region), and one for Australian and NZ discs?

    1. Re:DVD players: collect all 6 by hords · · Score: 1

      No, I haven't imported any DVDs or players. At one time I thought about importing anime, but now tons of anime are being sold here. Besides, it's always easier to download some fan subs then to bother importing all that stuff. How many people use bit torrent (etc) instead of importing? I bet the figure is huge. I know many people who have downloaded anime, but none who have actually imported any DVDs. Now video games are a different story. The average person can't just download a current generation console game and play it, unless they find a way to mod their console. I think the average person also has no idea the great games they are missing that are never released on their shore.

      Honestly, I have too big of a selection right here in my country that I don't need to look elsewhere for entertainment. I don't have enough time to watch and play all that I already own.

  47. Copyrights expire at different dates by tepples · · Score: 1
    The sole reason for region locking is to force you to pay the highest price for the region you're in.

    It's not the only reason. Copyrights expire at different dates in different countries. For instance, copyrights in sound recordings expire much earlier in the EU than in the USA. An upstream copyright owner, such as the owner of exclusive rights in the story on which a game is based or a musical work appearing in a game's soundtrack, may charge more for copies intended for distribution in territories where the upstream copyright owner still owns a subsisting copyright.

    Case in point: The copyright in Peter and Wendy, the first Peter Pan work written by J. M. Barrie, has expired in the United States and Canada. The European Union members and other life+70 countries still recognize a copyright in this work, assigned by Barrie's last will to Great Ormond Street Hospital, but such copyright will expire by the end of this decade, except in the United Kingdom where there is a statutory perpetual copyright on Peter and Wendy.

  48. *CLICK* by __aamkky7574 · · Score: 1

    The sound of Nintendo fan boys shifting into another gear to explain to us why region-locking Wiis is a GOOD thing.

    P.

    1. Re:*CLICK* by rabbot · · Score: 1

      No need, any sane person would wait to see if this is true for all regions...so far everyone *but* Nintendo UK says it isn't region locked. I realize you were just trolling, but some people might actually believe this story to be true for Japan and the United States, and so far there isn't enough info to assume that.

  49. PS1 demo disc by tepples · · Score: 1
    and even a game (which to my knowledge hasnt been done at launch time by any console since the SNES).

    My PlayStation game console from 1997 came with a disc with playable demos of eight different games on it.

  50. Wavebird is half that by tepples · · Score: 1
    60 dollars for a controller is steep, but a wireless Xbox 360 controller is 50 bucks.

    That's because Microsoft overcharges. A Wavebird controller for GameCube costs 30 USD.

  51. As I see it.. by Sage+of+Lightning · · Score: 1

    We have a problem, who is right? Nintendo US or Nintendo UK? It's possible that they are both right mayby UK Wiis will be region locked and US ones will not be.

  52. Legality? by phorm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I could be wrong, but don't some countries have laws against region-locks (I know some, at least, allow you to buy region-free or deregionalize your device without legal repercussions).

  53. Idiot, PAL60 exists, or crop it for 576i by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    Is it so hard to show a NTSC game in PAL mode but 60hz and the same res as NTSC? Yes you can.
    There are xbox games that do that.

    And if you must do 50hz for old tvs, then do it in 576, but do it in cropped mode where you show full
    640x480 in the same field, so you get black bars, big deal.

    The region locking is nothing about difficulties playing ntsc on pal tvs, its trivially easy. Its to keep the
    cartel sales distribution happy.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  54. this reminds me by popsicle67 · · Score: 1

    Of an old saying I hold near and dear to my heart. The saying is of course "They couldn't be dumber if they cut off their own heads". Do the British think we're happy to hear this? Do they think it will help sales making this rather terse admission? They are acting like the little brother who tells mom you didn't split the cookies (you just convinced her you didn't take them) right and it wasn't fair that you got more. All the while knowing he will get his cookies and no punishment because he supposedly is too little or stupid to know better. The whole nyah nyah thing is really amusing too. They were probably thinking "We'll get those cheeky insurrectionists and they'll look like idiots"

  55. 90% of good tvs do ntsc in aust by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

    Dude, have you seen aussie tvs?

    Even crap ones from 8 years ago could do NTSC.

    Dont forget we have somewhere near 15% asian population here, so there is a large demand for NTSC/JAP compatibility.

    Just about every single analogue tv chipset from philips etc.. supports PAL/NTSC, it makes no sense
    to make two chips when making one is easier.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
  56. Dis-un-in-multi-region fwii. by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 1
    The reason I accused you of being rather confused, or "clueless," as you put it, along with the fanboys, is the fact that you said

    Now, I imagine what some of the confusion might stem from is that first-party titles are not region-locked, so there might be some truth to what the VP of Marketing said, but it certainly isn't what most fans really wanted (which was no region-locking functionality in the hardware at all, preventing 3rd parties from using it).


    when it seems to be coming to light that EVERYTHING is region locked. You didn't really have it straight yourself. Thus, it's not the fanboys that are confusing it: whenever a company contradicts itself, there's always confusion over who's telling the truth.

    Region-locking isn't confusing, it's just not something that becomes an issue most of the time, excepting special cases like gamers who travel or people buying unreleased games from Japan.

    I do agree, however, that it would have been much wiser to just leave sleeping dogs lie, and avoid the issue entirely, instead of proclaiming that it would be region free (pre-production), and WAS region free (post-production), and then having to retract both as lies. It is a little unfair to Nintendo, though: they didn't actually tout the machine as being region free at any of the press conferences. It was only when specifically asked about it did the rep from NoA say it was.
    --
    No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
    1. Re:Dis-un-in-multi-region fwii. by jchenx · · Score: 1
      when it seems to be coming to light that EVERYTHING is region locked. You didn't really have it straight yourself. Thus, it's not the fanboys that are confusing it: whenever a company contradicts itself, there's always confusion over who's telling the truth.

      Region-locking isn't confusing, it's just not something that becomes an issue most of the time, excepting special cases like gamers who travel or people buying unreleased games from Japan.

      Actually, it is confusing because you, yourself, don't appear to understand the whole issue.

      It's rare to have everything region-locked. Each developer can CHOOSE whether or not the game enforces it. For example, even though the 360 is not region-free, the developer of Enchanted Arms decided not to region lock that game. Others developers could follow suit, although many will take advantage of region locking. As I mentioned, Nintendo may decide not to region-lock its particular games, which would be cool ... but the MAIN thing hardcore gamers want is to have no such region-enforcement on the console itself. If it isn't in the hardware, then no developers can utilize it.

      When people talk about region locks in consoles, that's what they're referring to. Whether or not a developer chooses to region lock their game (assuming the console supports it), isn't nearly as interesting. That's the confusing part I was referring to.

      Anyways, I agree that it's unfair for Nintendo to be slammed for just something their rep said (although she IS a VP). But it's the fanboism that just irks me.
      --
      -- jchenx
    2. Re:Dis-un-in-multi-region fwii. by AlexanderDitto · · Score: 1

      I do understand that developers can choose whether to region lock their games. But that's not the issue. The issue is whether the console is region locked, as you mentioned.

      So is it? Nintendo of UK said "We are region locked." What does that mean? Their GAMES will be? Or their systems? How does that impact Wifi connectivity? Will people from Japan be able to play against people in the US on the Wii? I still don't see a straight answer here. You seem to have a better grasp of the situation than I, so perhaps you'll be able to clear up my confusion. Is the console region locked? Is Nintendo planning on region locking its first party games in Japan? The US? Europe? Since third partys have the option to region lock, which developers are the most likely to do so?

      --
      No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring.
  57. Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    China doesn't support double citizenship. Many of my friends that were born in China still have to apply for visas when they go home to visit relatives, because they couldn't keep it when they took Australian citizenship.

    I don't think the USA supports it either, but I'm not sure about that.

    1. Re:Lies! by IdolizingStewie · · Score: 1

      The US allows dual citizenship up to age 18. Upon turning 18 and legally reaching maturity, you are expected to choose one country or the other. If you can demonstrate you spend a fair amount of time in both yearly you can keep the dual citizenship, but it's not easy.

    2. Re:Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is simply incorrect. The US does not recognize but neither does it prohibit dual citizenship - several other countries (Japan is a notable example) force their citizens to choose a nationality, but the US government doesn't ask or care.

    3. Re:Lies! by jizmonkey · · Score: 1
      The US allows dual citizenship up to age 18. Upon turning 18 and legally reaching maturity, you are expected to choose one country or the other. If you can demonstrate you spend a fair amount of time in both yearly you can keep the dual citizenship, but it's not easy.

      Totally wrong.

      --
      With great power comes great fan noise.
    4. Re:Lies! by NemosomeN · · Score: 1

      Example time! To become a Canadian citizen, you must renounce any other citizenships in the process of getting Canadian citizenship. The inverse is also true However, neither country recognizes the renunciation of citizenship done outside the country, so you have dual citizenship, though neither lets you. Each sees you as a citizen of that country, ignoring your other citizenship.

      --
      I hate grammar Nazi's.
  58. Oh noes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm still buying one.

  59. You seem confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You berate the GP for saying "it's just greed" and then say "they are a corp: they are looking only for profit" and admit that is pure greed.

    Then you later on say that there must be a non-greed version for selling it higher in the UK and think it cannot be greed. Huh? The EU has the euro and the UK has the pound. People won't know the difference in price, so greed makes them WANT to sell higher in the UK. If the UK used Euros, this would not be possible without making it hugely obvious, but with a different currency, it is easy to hide.

    1. Re:You seem confused by Shihar · · Score: 1

      I am not arguing that they are not being "greedy". My point is that no shit they are being "greedy". Every single for-profit corporation on the face of the planet can have its motives broken down into that they are being "greedy". It is a stupid point to even bring up, adds nothing to the conversation, and completely misses the deeper question as to why Nintendo thinks that charging a higher price in the UK is the right thing to do.

      I would bet that the original poster was not trying to make some profound statement about supply and demand when he declared that Nintendo charges the UK more because they are "greedy". It is pretty obvious that the implication of declaring Nintendo's motives as "greed" is because the original poster is under the delusion that Nintendo somehow had it out for the UK and is "less greedy" in other markets. This is obviously a completely wrong belief with absolutely no basis in reality.

      If the original parent was a detective trying to get inside of the mind of a killer he would look at the body and conclude that the reason why the murderer shot the victim in the head was because he wanted the victim to die. Well no shit Sherlock. It misses the higher point of "why" a killer decided to shoot that victim in the head to make him die.

  60. price gouging! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    having read the press release material I am once again sickened by those that seek to
    rip the british public off. once again we are facing to pay a mysterious extra
    amount for our hardware in the UK. taking todays currency exchange rate, we are paying
    almost 40% more for our console in the UK. yes, thats right. $350 is the price
    we'll be paying in the UK (£180).

    the true, real price, that the rest of the world will be paying (apart from europe...which
    are also 10% above the dollar price) is $250. I make that approx £135.

    so. either we get some damn fine bundle for that extra £45. eg extra controller, a few extensions,
    correct AV cables and a game or 2, or Nintendo will have just launched a reason to unlock/hack
    their box. again.

    the DS is region free. why some other method for the Wii ? i want to play those great
    Japanese/US games that never get to the UK. .... or if they do its 8 months later
    and at still top-spec pricing :-(

  61. Games can't be region locked if the console isn't by jchenx · · Score: 1
    So is it? Nintendo of UK said "We are region locked." What does that mean? Their GAMES will be? Or their systems? How does that impact Wifi connectivity? Will people from Japan be able to play against people in the US on the Wii? I still don't see a straight answer here. You seem to have a better grasp of the situation than I, so perhaps you'll be able to clear up my confusion. Is the console region locked? Is Nintendo planning on region locking its first party games in Japan? The US? Europe? Since third partys have the option to region lock, which developers are the most likely to do so?

    I guess I haven't been clear enough in my last few posts: games can't be region locked if the console isn't. So yes, the console is region locked.

    If the console WEREN'T region locked, then games wouldn't know which region the system they were playing on. Well, the game could determine that through whatever region/language/etc. the USER selected, but that's definately not strong enough, as the user could simply change that at will in the system settings. Region locking the hardware means that as the console itself is manufactured, some switch is hardcoded to tie that console to the region. That's why you usually have to get a console modded to override it.

    --
    -- jchenx
  62. new(??) perrin kaplan interview by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    new interview in which perrin kaplan confirms that the wii is region free.

    http://digg.com/gaming_news/Wii_is_Region_FREE_and _NO_DVD_PLAYBACK

  63. Region lock might end up being trivial to bypass.. by Scipher · · Score: 1

    ..like it is on the gamecube:

    SoftMod = buy a disc
    http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=81&produ cts_id=1964

    HardMod = jump a trace or install a switch and two wires
    http://www.superufo.com/review_html/Gamecube_Modif ication.html

    I really appreciated this about the 'cube. It's like Nintendo saying "well if you want to play these imports, we'll let you, but it's at your own risk!". The people who want to play the imports, can, and legally (depending on regional laws), and regular players are none the wiser. No mistake, I would prefer no region locking from a practical and library standpoint.

    This all said, region locking is meant to protect regional publishers ability to make profit, and hence release more games with localalisation. However, this did not seem to help in Australia, where GameCube titles are absolutely pitiful in selection, and sweet fuck all outside of big N first party releases.