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Best Buy, Real and SanDisk To Launch Music Service
M00NIE writes "Best Buy has announced it's going to join forces with Real and SanDisk to launch a new online music store. The new technology apparently makes use of Sansa music players that support Rhapsody DNA subscriptions." From the article: "As far as technical details go, Best Buy's new service is going to be identical to Rhapsody's current offering of WMA-protected audio files with the additional features provided by Rhapsody DNA. Rhapsody DNA is based on Real's Helix DRM and gives users the ability to access their content across different types of devices, and provides what RealNetworks describes as an "end-to-end music experience" similar to the closed ecosystem approach that Apple uses and Microsoft will be using with the Zune."
do we need another music store?
all these handcuffs to choose from, so much choice
Another way to not buy music! Brilliant! What next? Door to door music salesmen?
"Dictator Flakes. They WILL be delicious."
Real and WMA? I think I'd rather just stab myself with an icepick. What the hell is wrong with these morons? More restictive DRM attached to EXTREMELY crappy players is going to somehow take the web by storm, despite all historical evidence to the contrary?
Too many idiots are buying into the Zune hype.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
Are the helix files easily translated into more standard files that I could play on my existing hardware/players? There's no way I'm going to pay for crippled files that hardly play on anything.
Where were you when the voynix came?
Knowing BestBuy, they will be heavily pitching (or shoving down your throat) extended warranties on their music, since your backups will probably be rendered useless by their DRM.
mu'o je'e mu'o
Funny how "news" like this are more likely to drive people deeper into iTunes Store/iPod. Does anyone trust Real anymore?
I must say, hearing that Raphsody developed their DRM from a Real technology surprised me. It does not change the fact that Real has too bad of a history to ever gain my trust again. "I know I just stabbed that guy with this knife, but really, I've changed. Now I'm cutting pies with it. Here, let me cut a pie for you!" Riiiiight. I'd go along with that.
Slant
Between the Spaces
So let me get this straight-three minority players in the online music market think that by combining physical stores, codecs people despise, and mp3 players nobody buys will produce a winning service? Start shorting those stocks now, folks.
...I get twice the DRM for twice the price! What a deal!
"This is America... where the will of the few outweigh the outrage of the many..." - Unknown
This will probably be huge, IMO. Best Buy has a large customer base, many of whom are completely ignorant of the fact that they can buy songs individually online...they come into the store looking for a CD...something they can hold in their hands and place in a player)...and you know the BBY salespeople will rape them with a rehearsed speech about this service and why they should believe it IS the best way to purchase music. Many people will writhe in discomfort, squirming to get away from the pushy high school kid in the blue shirt, but Best Buy will succeed in seducing many others.
"Knowing BestBuy, they will be heavily pitching (or shoving down your throat) extended warranties on their music, since your backups will probably be rendered useless by their DRM."
And they'll advertise music players for $29.99, but when you get there you find out that it's really $159.99 with a $130 rebate, which you never receive after you mail in the rebate form (there is fine print that basically says they aren't obligated to pay you after all).
Where were you when the voynix came?
that will ask me if I want a 2 year warranty extension on the files at only 40% on top of the actual purchase price and while I am playing the music it will......... streaming...... streaming...... have....... streaming....... some....... streaming..... problems.
Watching all our actions and then asking us to mail in a rebate. What's not to love?
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
010100101010101111
are they going to demand that you open your shopping cart before exiting the site?
No more "Company X" starts music or video service "stories" please. These anouncements are a dime a dozen and unless there is actually something unique about the store the story is pointless. Wake me up when they actually put a dent into Apple's marketshare. Then you'd have a story.
Their competition is called 2nd generation iPod nano and a music store that has been running, for years and ties into a piece of software currently at version 7.
Cut off $100 of the player and $.49 of each song and you MIGHT be able to compete.
Or, rather, at the risk of repeating Moglen:
a nd-you.html [compsoc.com]
"You don't know what the world you're living in is going to be like but you can guess some things about it: there will be no music companies in it. Now if you leave them alone to buy more congressmen, in this very corrupt time of ours, they will survive for a little while longer but all of this talk is about the technicalities of the adjustment of the terms of their demise. When we want to start talking about something that matters, we would do better to begin from some basic social propositions. Everybody is connected to everybody else, all data that can be shared will be shared: get used to it."
http://ciaran.compsoc.com/texts/eben-moglen-dmca-
I'm almost ready to get the big bucket of popcorn and just watch.
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
It gets no better, friends! I wonder if Best Buy will offer rebates on songs?
"Unless Microsoft craps a miracle and their clunky "available in white, black, and brown" player turns out to be amazing, this service is going to languish and fail like dozens of others."
Hi-dee hi! But it wouldn't be so bad if the music didn't happen to be crap as well.
Where were you when the voynix came?
I agree. There's more to this story than meets the eye.
According to this article, the underlying hardware is based on the e200 series of players. That's interesting because the e200 's most distinguishing feature is its support for both MTP mode (yuck, Media Transfer Protocol means "works on XP only, and you can only transfer files by politely asking WMP10/11+ for permission") and UMS (woohoo, USB Mass Storage, it mounts like every other USB drive on every OS in the world) mode.
There's also been rumors of interest from Sandisk in working with the Rockbox folks.
I speculate that Real is paying Sandisk a small fortune to place Real-branded (and Real-DRM-infected) firmware on the existing Sansa e200 hardware. The branding of the player "Sansa Rhapsody" doesn't stomp all over the "Sansa e2x0" series. Sandisk makes money off Real's licensing fees and the hardware even if the programme flops flat on its face. Sandisk, after all, is in the business of selling flash memory, not MP3 players - hence why the e200 is flash-based and has an expansion slot for MicroSD. If you're a flash manufacturer, high-capacity flash-based MP3 players are a great means of not just driving sales, but for boosting profit margins.
This is a perfect example of the need for a +1 Time Bandits mod.
"Digital watches, day one!"
are we seeing the rebirth of DIVX dvds as ipods??
"Hey guys, APPLE is succesful with a closed ecosystem, maybe thats the magic mojo? Limiting customers choices! Brilliant!"
The only way to beat Apple is to make something thats more compelling then an ipod. If you want a music player are you going to buy an iPod or a device just like an iPod??
These companys need to raise the bar and come up with something compelling that Apple hasn't done already instead of trying to scamble for some of apples table scraps.
Gadget News at Gizmo.com
But I don't know anyone who likes anything real does at all. I mean, they used to be a playering in streaming media, but we all know
...buffering...
...buffering...
...buffering...
how well that turned out: Microsoft and Apple ate their painfully bloated spyware's lunch.
So, market is Real a leader in? What do they make that everyone doesn't hate?
Crow T. Trollbot
Exxon only works in Chevrolets, and Chrysler owners must seek out Citgo stations.
It's always been that way. That's what made American oil companies and American automakers so successful.
Consumers love being asked to guess which product to buy, knowing that there's only one chance in three they'll be able to use the product five years from now.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
As if stripping DRM was *hard* or something, and then converting to one's format of choice.
Sorry to say, but there's an elephant in this industry's room. Anyone with access to Google can find what they need to get around this stuff right quick.
I for one welcome our new music underlords and there minions. The more fragmented the minor players become the more power Apple/iTunes has, and I trust Apple more than the RIAA (for the moment).
Programmers in mirror are brighter than they appear
Seriously, it's like the Voltron of crap.
do we need another linux distro?
Best Buy is pretty annoying. They always ask for my phone #. I see them entering customer gender info when you check out. I bought a computer their awhile back and they wanted me to fill out my address and other info. If you're telling me they're going to start asking for my DNA now too, I can't say I'm that surprised.
I got tired of MP3 players, including an Ipod, being either unreliable or having design issues (Ipod doesn't work when you have gloves on or cold hands, Dell's players STINK, etc.)
So I got a supercheap Sansa player that works with my Yahoo subscription and it just works great. And their other devices are priced well and look good.
Please stow the DRM complaints. Those are the kind of complaints that stupid people make. If DRM is not for you, go buy your CDs from the store. End of story. Consumer choice, remember? And buying music is also a legal choice.
Wow, an unholy alliance by a bunch of companies I hate. Who do I give my personal info to in order to get in on the ground floor of this sure-to-be epic screwing over of consumers by The Triad?
"What we elect to call imagination is mere combination of things not heretofore combined." - Frank Norris
I am truely proud to be old school.
My mooosic player plays old fasioned MP3's and I pay $10 a month for a good news group subscription.
(+1 Funny) only if I laugh out loud.
* More affordable -- $120 to $180 a year for virtually all the music you want (that's the equivalent of perhaps 20 CDs from iTunes)
* More affordable -- my time is too valuable to spend it ripping my extensive CD collection into MP3s or a lossless format and organizing it ... a couple of clicks and my existing music is "added" to my Rhapsody library as I want to listen to it
* More flexible -- I can add a artist's entire body of work to my Rhapsody library, listen to it several times to decide if I like it and delete it if I don't ... and it doesn't cost me anything beyond my basic monthly subscription fee
* Protection from "obsolescence" -- the current sampling rates used by iTunes, Rhapsody and the others aren't exactly CD quality, but they are good enough. If iTunes decides to improve the bit rate in 2 years, you'll likely have to buy the tracks all over again, but with Rhapsody they should just be there automatically
* Buy It, too -- if you want to buy a Rhapsody track and burn your own CD, you can do it just as you would with iTunes ... each track is generally only 89 cents.
I realize that the subscription model isn't right for everyone, but I think many of the comments here don't consider the positive factors. I view it similarly to a Sirius or XM monthly subscription. For a very modest price each month, I have access to all the music I could ever want and I certainly do a lot more exploration of new artists than I have ever done before. I also have the option of buying the tracks outright at any time just as with iTunes.
Finally, I've long been a critic of Real's software and their invasive installation tactics. I was therefore genuinely surprised at how clean the Rhapsody install was and the absence of the typical Real antics. Best of all, Rhapsody's integration with Sonos is simply elegant -- no PC involved at all -- direct access to the entire Rhapsody music library. channels and radio stations from the Sonos wireless remote. It has been a true pleasure.
I bought a 512 meg sansa 230, or whatever the older model # blue one is. It was $40, and the dufus at the register gives me the service plan pitch. I say no. He adds "You do know that those are known to have battery issues, don't you?" I smiled and said, "Yes, but I'm willing to absorb that risk," then walked out laughing my ass off.
The player takes a friggin AAA.
Sweet informative mod.
Best Buy sells iPods, I wonder how strongly they will promote iPods in the future.
That said I could see this working if the Sansa device is promoted purely as a service device that you pay for a month of song access, just like the phone. There are some people that would go for that and they could take over that niche.
Honestly this seems to have a much better chance of staying around than the Zune does. The Zune doesn't know what it is, is it a music player or an all you can eat browser? It will focus on neither and do badly at both, that along with BestBuy focusing on selling thier own player while Apple does what it does best mean a rough middle ground for Zune.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
For geeks like me who sit at their computer all day and read slashdot, rhapsody is the best thing out there. They have a great catalog and some excellent discovery features. It sounds like they are using the money they won from their microsoft lawsuit to improve their music product which is great...
New releases a week before they come out in stores. Subscriptions to artists and generes so that you will automaticly get new content when you sync your device. Music downloads that work with your iPod. These are all cool features and significant steps for digital music. Just because they are logical steps and not technological leaps doesn't make them bad.
To all of you haters who havent even tried rhapsody, give it a shot. They are making a concerted effort to enhance the digital music experience.
"Making Microsoft look competent by comparison..."
"The only way to beat Apple is to make something thats more compelling then an ipod."
It's not the iPod or the iTunes Store that are compelling. It's iTunes itself. Until a competitor produces software that makes managing your music collection and getting it from your computer to your music player easier than iTunes does, there'll never be an "iPod killer", regardless of features, price, ease of use etc. The ease of use of iTunes made the Store possible, and it is that ease of use of the service, not the iPod, that is the real key to Apple's dominance in the legal download market. The point that most people are missing by focusing on the iPod is that Apple is already looking beyond it. Competitors who focus on the device, and not on the service ecosystem it represents, are fighting the wrong battle.
The iTunes Store is cluing in the average consumer (i.e., the multitudes who don't know or care that Slashdot exists) that buying digital content from the Web is an easy process, and when they're used to the idea, it won't matter to Apple if an "iPod killer" exists or not. They'll be too firmly entrenched in people's living rooms to give a damn, and a hell of a lot more people own TV's than own digital music players. With the prices of LCD TV's falling, how difficult would it be for Apple to stuff the iMac's guts and iTV functionality into a television and position it as THE Next Big Thing? Especially if Disney, through Jobs' connections, provides some marketing muscle? I can easily envision Apple sweetening the pot by offering free Disney classic on DVD or via iTunes Store exclusively with the purchase of a new "iHome" entertainment system.
"DefectiveByDesign.org is a broad-based anti-DRM campaign that is targeting Big Media, unhelpful manufacturers and DRM distributors. The campaign aims to make all manufacturers wary about bringing their DRM-enabled products to market. DRM products have features built-in that restrict what jobs they can do. These products have been intentionally crippled from the users' perspective, and are therefore "defective by design". This campaign will identify these "defective" products, and target them for elimination. Our aim is the abolition of DRM as a social practice."
Let me start by saying that I am definitely an iPod guy. I have owned several iPods (3G, 4G, Photo, Video, Shuffle). I develop iPod compatible software and have been heavily involved in reverse engineering the iTunes database formats.
That said, the e200R and Rhapsody 4.0 actually appear to be a decent alternative to an iPod/iTMS, not to mention Microsoft's Zune. I know, I know - BestBuy and Real (along with Microsoft WMA) sound like a match made in hell, but the features posted on Wired actually sound interesting - especially "My Rhapsody Channel" (sort of like Pandora for portable music players) and "Dynamic Playlists" (same idea, but featuring new releases).
Regardless of what you think of Real, you can't argue that they are doing some innovative things here (we'll have to see on how well it is executed). And while I haven't even touched a Sansa, they are the 2nd most popular MP3 player and do get decent reviews.
I'm thinking that for people who are interested in renting music, as opposed to the $0.99 per-track iTunes model, this sounds a lot more compelling than any of the PlaysForSure alternatives. If they would just subsidize the player and sell it cheap ($99 or less) with a 1 or 2 year service commitment, I think they could do very well.
Rockbox on't be on the Sansa anytime soon. Sansa's idea of helping was to hold a little chat, send the developers a couple of players, and never be heard from again. Without chip documentation (which Sansa can't legally provide) the Rockbox port is dead until someone does a lot of reverse-engineering.
Sansa's right hand didn't know what its left hand was doing, and made promises they couldn't keep.
:)
Won't this encourage people to buy music online instead of CDs in the store? I thought this was a big draw for them.
I bought a Sansa, and I really like it. And now they are moving into a _second_ pile of DRM bull.
Well, I for one will continue to not sign up for any of these evil DRM sites and services. I do all my access in MSC mode (just plain USB disk installation mode) via linux.
What's funny is that the player has to be in the no-drm plain transfer mode to do automatic firmware updates.
Someone somewhere isn't thinking.
And no, I don't even _care_ what the details of Helix DNA are. The concept is flawed so the implementation is uninteresting.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
I know you're just trying to be funny, but you're an idiot. I happen to work at Best Buy, and the extended warranties (product service plans) we offer are only for expensive products (computer speakers, computers, tvs, appliances, etc). No fucking way they offered you a service plan on your 512mb flash drive.
Bull shit.
PS I work in customer service. Tons of shit comes in every_single_day. Less than half the people don't have our service plan, so they either get charged a lot, we tell them to deal with the manufacturer (manufacturer's warranty), or we tell them that they are fucked.
But competing against Apple where the atributes you have to beat are Coolness, User Interface, and User Friendlyness? What the hell are they smoking? It's not going to happen, it's going to be like those damn Mac Commercials...the dividing line between cool and crap is very clear.
God forbid that an organization make an attempt to offer products and services in an open market.
Do you think it will be so difficult for these large companies to create "Coolness, User Interface, and User Friendlyness"? At the very least the companies can copy Apple's business model. The benefit to the consumer and the industry is product diversity and healthy competition.
First of all, Real, Sandisk and Best Buy are firms in other industries offering a substitute product. This alliance is healthy for the competitive environment. What makes this alliance dubious? I think Best Buy has the retail power and agressive marketing to make this idea work.
Why are you personally threatened by this? If you're an Apple fanboy, you can still purchase your protected media from the iTunes store. God forbid anyone offer competition to Apple. Face it, in the near distant future, Apple's main money-maker will sink in a see of substitute products and services. Has Apple created a strategy to get itself out of a mess like that?
Cut off $100 of the player and $.49 of each song and you MIGHT be able to compete.
Thanks for the revalation. Yes, new market entrants must provide products and services at a lower price point. [I clap my hands and hand you a silver star.]
But the real competition will come when the marketing and service power of Best Buy is able to one up Apple. Time will tell. This is another competitive advantage Best Buy/Real/Sandisk will have over Apple. And if Best Buy is really predatory, they will stop selling iPods.
Consumers love being asked to guess which product to buy, knowing that there's only one chance in three they'll be able to use the product five years from now.
Yes, and all Apple fanboys feel warm inside knowing that protected iTunes files will only run on their iPods. Every fanboy gets his due desert.