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Star Wars Virgin Takes the Plunge
Entertainment Weekly is running a short account of one Star Wars virgin who recently sat down to watch all six Star Wars movies in their originally intended order while recording his thoughts. From the article: "So after watching the sun set on all six of the Star Wars (or sun rise, in my case), what do these movies mean to me? I have to be careful where I tread here, because people's love of these movies is passionate to say the least. (Personal note: My friends had a Star Wars-themed wedding.) The cynical and tired side of me wants to say that George wanted Episode I to be shown first because after watching 14 straight hours of Star Wars, my memories of young Anakin and Jar Jar are almost long forgotten. I've tossed them aside along with my package of caffeine pills and bottle of Coke."
Anyone who would watch 6 consecutive Star Wars movies should be considered a virgin by default.
The Braying and Neighing of Barnyard Animals Follows.
So what was worse, Star Wars or the Cremaster series?
Is there any other kind of Star Wars fan?
Star Wars? Virgin? Why, those are 3 words that have never before been seen anywhere near each other!
Programmer: an ingenious device that converts caffeine into code.
it was not some great intention or design. If he wanted to do 1 first, he would have.
If he'd made episode 1 first, and it was anything like the film that was released, there would never have been more than one Star Wars film...
-JMP
Whoever said it was inteded to be watched I-VI and not IV-VI+I-III? I'm quite happy I grew up with IV-VI and later saw I-III as they came out.
It says a lot if you were born in 1950.
Lucas is a fallen hero at best.
When can I get the unfudged up version of THX-1138?
Star Wars Virgin Takes the Plunge
The headline made it sound like a Star Wars-loving virgin who had actually gotten laid was going to tell us what it was like to finally score.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
Namely, the Clone Wars series. I think they were one of the best parts of SW.
There wasn't the technology in 1977 to film long senate orations and a jamaican muppet.
My wife and I are both Star Wars fans, and we joked about telling just one guest that our wedding would be Star Wars themed and asking him to come in costume. We're not that cruel, but I can't help but regret that our wedding album lacks a picture of a bunch of guys in formal wear standing around with a guy in a cheap Chewbacca costume.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
These days, Star Wars seems to be more nerdy than Trek. 10 years ago, Trekkies were considered hopeless nerds, obsessed with detail and continuity, and who never get dates, and Star Wars was considered cool and retro. These days, Trekkies are still considered hopeless nerds, but in a much more affectionate way, whereas the Star Wars fans are now nerdier, even more obsessed with detail and continuity, and even less likely to get a date.
I recently watched all the Star Wars movies with my 7 year-old son. I wouldn't let him see Episode III in the theater, because I felt the violence was too intense and the intrigue too slow. It's a bit better at home, because we can skip parts or take a break as necessary. (My wife and I, being mature adults, went to see it at midnight when it opened. Irony intended.)
He'd seen some of the orginal trilogy before, but I don't think the story stuck with him. Anyway, we watched I-III, the Clone War Cartoons, and then IV-VI over about two weeks. When Anakin died in Return of the Jedi, he cried. It was a much different experience in chronological order.
-Dave
Once in 1980, once in 1990, and once in 2000, though "regular", doesn't bode terribly well for your sexual prowess... -Taylor
Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
He once said that he made 4, 5 and 6 first because they featured a more compelling story.
:)
He was right.
So, is it pretty much accepted that the only way to watch Star Wars is in the order of 1-6? You know, the only logical way, as Lucas intended?
I argued this point for about 2 hours in a pub once, almost got kicked out. A stupid, stupid friend of ours was trying to get my girlfriend (a Star Wars virgin as well), to watch them in release order (4, 5, 6, 1, 2, 3).
I nearly slit his throat, corrupting my girlfriend with wrong thinking like that. It still upsets me.
...these aren't my real teeth.
CSPAN has Jamaican muppets?
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
Wanting to do it first and wanting it watched first are two different things despite the high correlation.
But he didn't make the movies in such a way that they lend themselves to watching in episodic order, either. So his wanting them watched in order is misguided.
For example, watched in episode order, the first coherent explanation of what the Force is occurs in Episode IV. The Midichlorian explanation in Ep. I would be confusing as hell since he's describing how you measure Jedi-ness assuming both the characters and the audience are fully aware of what that is, and then midichlorians are never mentioned again. The knowledge that Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's father is given away at the end of III, but revealed as plot twists in V and VI. I can only imagine how confusing Ben Kenobi's behavior must have seemed.
From the article:
"For me, the biggest problem with seeing these films in their intended order is that Episodes IV-VI offered little surprises. I know who Luke's father is; I know that the little creature is Yoda. I have to sit through that uncomfortable kiss between Luke and Leia knowing that they are indeed brother and sister. Most of the mysteries and questions that drive the plots of the later episodes are nullified by having seen the first three. I almost envied those who saw them in original order, so I too could have enjoyed the shock and surprise of some of the plot's twists and turns. Luckily I was never a fan of bellbottoms, so I will indeed stick with the intended order."
"Intended order" my ass. It's a broken order.
Of course, the real reason you need to watch them IV-VI then I-III is so that you like Star Wars enough to make it through the prequels.
The enemies of Democracy are
I didn't know Quentin Tarantino read Slashdot
I have to sit through that uncomfortable kiss between Luke and Leia knowing that they are indeed brother and sister.
At this precise moment during the '97 special edition release of Star Wars, in a packed house (the Uptown Theater in Washington DC, 840 seats), some guy down in front yelled,
INNNN-CEST!!!!
The whole place cracked up. I wish I could say it was me, but alas, it wasn't.
I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
The original trilogy (IV-VI) would have been drastically ruined for me if I had seen the prequilogy(I-III) first. The biggest intreague to the original trilogy was the shrowd of mystery over the great darth vader, and the insestual love between Luke and Leia. However, at the end of Return of the Jedi, you finally see the humanity of darth and have one question on your mind, how did this man become the power behind the mask? it was not, what happens next, but rather, how did this happen? as a producer, Lucas knows how to draw people into a world, not just a story. he released the original trilogy prior to the prequilogy for two distinct reasons.
1) the trilogy is an epic in and of itself, it stands alone. had george finished his career in 1990, he still would have been considered one of the greatests writers/directors/producers of all time. had his name been only attached to the prequilogy, it would have not been accepted as forthwrite by the public.
2) the technolgy to have pod races and full on realistic battles against non-human enemies was not available in the 1980's.
To truely appreciate every aspect of the story, the order is IV-VI,I-III, Clone wars... There is little entertainment in having questions asked (who is darth vader, why is there this connection between luke and leia, who is obi-wan kanobi, who is this great yoda, why is he the only one left?) after their stories and answers have been told.
Who says that's the order Lucas intended? Plus, there were supposed to be nine movies in all; a trilogy of trilogies. AFAIK, the order that the movies were released _was_ the intended order.
Dear God! Take another look at the credits. The best movies in the series are the ones where Lucas didn't write the screenplay.
They need to do a follow-up article where the reviewer watches the theatrical releases and compares them to the re-releases. I swear, that musical number they added in ROTJ makes my ears bleed.
...that the correct order to watch them, if you haven't seen them before, is IV, V, VI, I, II, III, IV, V, VI.
Whatever Lucas' intentions were, I, II and III were made to be shown to millions of people who had seen IV, V and VI. The first time you see the original trilogy, it's about Luke. The second time, it's about Anakin.
Sam! If you will let me be,
I will try them.
You will see.
Star Wars virgin takes a plunger
Ok, I'm going to geek out here for a second, but I think the most unfortunate thing about all this is that they could have made the prequals to preserve a lot of those mysteries. Episode 3 could have been written so you're lead to believe that Anakin died at the end, and Padme could have been left pregnant. In RotJ, Leia says she remembers her real mother a little, and yet in Episode 3 she dies in childbirth. It isn't even coherent.
Also, Yoda could have been spoken of and referenced in the prequals, but never seen, which would have only built up suspense for the Degoba scene in ESB. And when ObiWan lies about Vadar killing Anakin in A New Hope, the audience would naturally assume that he's lying because it would be tought thing to explain, that it was he who killed Anakin. So you'd be left to think the big secret coming in ESB was that ObiWan killed Anakin, which would make the real plot twist that much more twisty.
So Lucas could have made it sensible to watch them in order, 1=>6, without destroying the plots of the original trilogy. The fact is, he simply chose not to, which is just baffling. As it is, there is absolutely no good order to watch the trilogy in, because Episode 3 ruins the surprises of 5 and 6, whereas watching the original trilogy basically lays out the story for the prequals, meaning there's no possiblity of Anakin's fall being interesting.
Let me guess: You think Han shooting first makes him "badass", don't you? Greedo was awake, facing him, and armed. He also announced his intentions. Shooting Greedo at that point makes him about as badass as a chicken in a tin can that doesn't screech "EX-TER-MI-NATE!". The only change Greedo shooting first makes is establishing the blaster as a weapon that kills your accuracy(consistent with what we've already seen with Stormtroopers--at least SG-1 explains the crappiness of staff cannons by saying that they're not meant to be efficient anyways) and slightly decreasing Han's reaction time. If you want "badass", go see Mal Reynolds. In Serenity alone he shoots two unarmed men, three if you count the one about to be taken away by Reavers. He's not afraid of throwing a guy into his engines.
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
Randal: Which did you like better? "Jedi" or "The Empire Strikes Back"?
Dante: "Empire".
Randal: Blasphemy.
Dante: "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
The really sad thing is, I've read many a "revised" prequel trilogy on the net, and basically every one of them is better than what we got. Frankly I think that the first trilogy would have been much, much better simply by forcing Lucas to work with somebody (anybody) who was willing to call crap crap and say "fix it!"
Also, Yoda could have been spoken of and referenced in the prequals, but never seen, which would have only built up suspense for the Degoba scene in ESB.
True, plus it makes no sense for yoda to go from being 880 years and fit as a fiddle to 900 and dying, though I've always told myself this was just because Yoda felt bad for fucking up so bad and decided he was done after helping Luke to fix Yoda's mess. Mostly though he was a pretty ludicrous character to have serving as a general -- it didn't fit his V/VI persona at all.
So you'd be left to think the big secret coming in ESB was that ObiWan killed Anakin, which would make the real plot twist that much more twisty.
It would be tough to make this work for the viewers while still having the prequels be about Anakin's fall. The easiest way would be to completely refrain from mentioning Vader in Ep. III, so he just looked like a random new Sith Lord in IV, though it would make Ben's blaming Vader for Anakin's death seem weird lie or not.
The enemies of Democracy are
Your post reminded me of some musings I've indulged in myself sometimes. Though I'm not at the stage in my life where I'm even considering having kids, I'd given some casual musings to how I would intriduce them to certain things, like Star Wars. After giving it much thought, I came up with what I would think is the ideal order for introducing someone to Star Wars.
Start with Episode IV, for many reasons. It was the first film released, thus the first taste anyone got of Star Wars. It's also the most self-contained. It has all the elements that make the rest of the films impressive, but its scope is tighter and much more limited, thus it's more impressive without seeing it in the context of the much more broad visions of the other films. (Plus, as after watching the entire saga one can claim Palpatine is the true arch villain of the entire series, it's strange that he is only briefly referenced once in dialogue early in the film and never actually appears, when viewed in context of his dramatic turn in Episode III.) Move on to Episode V, so you get the huge shocker about Vader, and end on the cliffhanger about Han. Remember, audiances had to wait years for the resolution of that cliffhanger in the original release cycle.
So after Episode V, with Han carted off by Boba, Yoda mentioning "another" hope, Luke smarting after getting his ass kicked by his sociopathic dad, and with the viewer begining to see some depth to the Vader character (and without having had a real introduction to the Emperor beyond a brief hologram) we let those elements hang and linger, and go back to the prequel saga. We see Anakin grow and his backstory fills in some of the depth to Vader's character we only started to see in Episode V. Not having seen Episode VI, the viewer doesn't immediately identify Senator/Chancellor Palpatine as the Emperor/Darth Sideus, and when the little robot obsetrician announces that Amidala has twins and one gets named Leia, that's a genuine surprise to the viewer. (On a side note, that one scene where they name the twins explicitly always struck me as very very stupid fro ma story point of view if they were actually intended to be viewed chronologically. The author of the article makes a great point about how, despite Lucas's claims, the films are actually less satisfying dramatically if watched in 'chronological' order.)
Now that the backstory is filled in for the viewer, and we can see the Emperor as the true puppetmaster and Darth Vader as a manipulated, confliced tool of evil, and we can understand and empathize with Luke's desire to reason with, rather than kill, Vader; we move on to Episode VI. So the cliffhanger regarding Han finally gets sorted out (phew! More of a relief of tension watching 3 films to see that, rather than immediately seeing it resolved, even though it's one of the dumbest rescue plans ever...) and Boba Fett, with whom we have added empathy after seeing his dad raise hell in Episode II (though the vengeful undertones present in the shot where he's seen lifting Jango's severed head/helmet are never really realized, unless you count him briefly fighting Luke as some kind of anti-Jedi vengeance) meets his comically undramatic end, we move to the final set-piece. We've seen Yoda introduced as the unassuming little green guy, then saw him in his heyday, now we see him die. We saw Obi Wan as kindly Uncle Ben, then young kickass Jedi / flawed mentor, now we see him offer final advice to Luke. And when Vader meets his end and redemption, it's the culmination of it all.
This I think gives a great balance to the two approaches to the trilogy. On the one hand, all the best plot twists are preserved for the viewer, and the most limited film is seen first. On the other hand, Episode VI is truely the culmination for the viewer, and despite all the prequels' flaws, Anakin showing up as a blue force ghost in Jedi rock and roll heaven is actually more satisfying after having seen them.
Yup...
There is one universal message in SW #4, #5, and #6. The message is that life is full of dangers, disappointments, and loss. Yet, somehow, in the end, you will find sanctuary by avoiding being suckered into evil doing. Stay true to all that is good, and the goodness shall be the force that ultimately triumphs. This path to the light is available to everyone.
Fast forward 20+ years and $1 billion.
Lucas destroys that egalitarian message in SW #1. He changes the story to say that you can triumph only if you are born with the right midi chlorians (e.g., mitochondria). Lucas, in one fell swoop, transforms egalitarianism into a snobby sort of class warfare.
SW #1 sucked. SW #2 sucked even worse. SW #3 was somewhat improved, but the acting was wooden.
That's not a "fantastic" heckle. Here's a fantastic heckle...
If you recall, the bad dudes in Battlefield Earth wore these huge platform boots to make them look taller and more menacing. Watching the movie with my brother, the part came where Forrest Whitaker was pleading for his life, saying "please, I have a wife, I have a family..." and my brother adds "...I just took out a mortgage on a new pair of shoes..."
Now that is a heckle.Patrick Doyle
I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
You can't moderate if you comment. How many Slashdotters are not going to want to say something about Starwars?
Common sense is not so common
Right. That's what happens in the story. In stories, sometimes stuff that isn't nice happens. That generally makes them more interesting.
Think about it this way: By skipping that scene, what are you teaching your kid? If you don't skip that scene, what are you teaching your kid? If he complains about being disturbed by the scene, what would you then have the opportunity to teach him?
-- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
Oh, shut up. You're reminding us how incredibly easy it would have been to have a reasonable plot for Eps. 1-3. I had sucessfully blocked them out for several months now...
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Here goes - other's mileage may vary.
When Star Wars (IV) came out in the theaters, I was about 7 years old. It was a really cool movie for a kid that age. The plot was understandable, and the special effects (for the time) were great. There were a few key things about that movie - this first one of them I didn't realize until someone else pointed it out, in a posting about Star Wars on Slashdot a few months ago.
On the big screen, the opening for Star Wars was just incredible. After all the words etc., disappear, you see the biggest spaceship ever.
Which is immediately shot at, overtaken by, and swallowed whole by The Biggest SpaceShip Ever. Really cool opening. Of course, by the end of the film the good guy blows up THE BIGGEST SPACESHIP EVER with just one shot.
On the TV at home it doesn't quite come across.
The movie had no overwhelming gore and blood, language or open sexuality to keep the young kids away - it was a grown up movie that the kids really could see with their parents, and I think that was a part of the love people have with it. Most of the other kid's movies that I recall from the time were Disney cartoons. Not a lot of comparison.
Considering this was the 70's , it had spaceships and robots that looked like they had been used - dirty, dinged up, and not too impractical looking.
For a kid who had grown up in the shadow of 'we just came back from the Moon - where next, guys?', and whose family never had a car with less than 10% rust, Skywalker's landspeeder was a possible flying car. It had the missing panels and scratches that I could relate to. And the idea that we'd have a moon base by 1990 was not yet disproven. Heck, I think I expected to at least have an R2D2 type robot in my house by now (2006).
Star Trek always had the 'perfectly clean' thing going - same with a lot of the sci fi of the day. It was so antiseptic, that it didn't seem like it was around the corner.
And it was easy to identify with the human characters - the girls didn't mind being Leia cuz she was cool, and both Luke and Han were fine choices for play acting. (Remember, 7-8 years old, and the toys from Hasbro were well done).
It didn't have all the technobabble that can turn people off, and the idea of the Force was portrayed in a likable way (it's everywhere, and in everyone, it's just how much you want to accept it). So in short I think it managed to hit a lot of the positives without any of the negatives.
I remember when they re-released ep IV in the theaters - they re-released a lot of the toys then too. I was in a toy store with my sister, in my 20's, and saw the pile of toys. I actually said to her, 'you know what's cool? I could actually afford to buy all of this now.' Kind of a neat throwback to being 8 and saving up for three weeks (seemed like forever) to buy just one X wing fighter.
That's one of the areas for me that was a disappointment. Episode I didn't have really relatable characters, and negotiating a trade agreement is a snoozer for a lot of adults - what kid can relate to that? Ep I-III, to me, was all written for the adults to explain the backstory that I think was cooler when I didn't know what had happened. And I felt that a lot of the movie was written to make you want to buy the toys, not where the toys let you re-live the movie.
I didn't feel like Ep I was a really great movie to take a kid to.
I think the best viewing order is 4, 5, 6, the Wikipedia entries on the first three. That way you learn all the important fasts without having to sit through The Little Menace.
Alternatively I recommend 4, 5, 6, Backstroke of the West. BotW arguably is more entertaining than vanilla Episode 3.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)