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Wikipedia Blocks Qatar [Updated]

GrumpySimon writes "Wikipedia has blocked the entire country of Qatar from editing pages. Whilst the ban is due to spam-abuse coming from the IP address in question, the fact that this belongs to the country's sole high-speed internet provider has the unintended consequence of stopping Qataris from editing the wiki. The ban has raised concerns about impartiality — the majority of Al Jazeera journalists operate out of Qatar, for example. This raises a number of issues about internet connectivity in small countries — what other internet bottlenecks like this exist?" Update: 01/02 13:32 GMT by Z : Jim Wales wrote in the comments that the story is 'completely false'. Either way, the ban has been lifted and anonymous editing is once again possible from Qatar.

204 comments

  1. IPv6 by Watson+Ladd · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's situations like this that should make small countries upgrade to IPv6. What surprises me is that they haven't already.

    --
    Inventions have long since reached their limit, and I see no hope for further development.-- Frontinus, 1st cent. AD
    1. Re:IPv6 by davef139 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If a country has a sole isp what makes you think they can afford to upgrade to IPv6, their customers are probably using win95 still.

    2. Re:IPv6 by MoHaG · · Score: 1
      It's situations like this that should make small countries upgrade to IPv6. What surprises me is that they haven't already.
      Proxy servers is the problem, not a shortage of IP addresses...
    3. Re:IPv6 by rs232 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's situations like this that should make small countries upgrade to IPv6. What surprises me is that they haven't already.

      It's a matter of more cables. The recent outages in Asia were exasperated by the lack of redundant routes. You see to save money they only installed the minimum necessary cables as they 'weren't in an earthquake zone'.

      --
      God is dead - Nietzsche

      Nietzsche is dead - God

      Nietzsche thinks he's a tulip .. :)

      --
      davecb5620@gmail.com
    4. Re:IPv6 by nomadic · · Score: 3, Informative

      If a country has a sole isp what makes you think they can afford to upgrade to IPv6

      Ummm, it's a very wealthy country. They have less than a million people, which is why a sole ISP might make sense, but they're not exactly suffering from poverty.

    5. Re:IPv6 by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Plus with so few people ipv6 makes no sense for them.

    6. Re:IPv6 by jonadab · · Score: 1

      > The recent outages in Asia were exasperated by the lack of redundant routes.

      I assume you mean exacerbated. I'm not sure what it would mean to exasperate an outage; normally only sentient beings can be exasperated.

      Nonetheless, your point is valid. If an entire nation is connected to the internet via one (1) ISP with one (1) link to the outside world and one (1) external IP address, they have larger problems than whether one user's foolish actions can cause them all to be blocked from a particular website (even if it's a fairly major website like WP; and yes, I understand they were only blocked from editing, not viewing, but that's really extraneous to the point).

      --
      Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    7. Re:IPv6 by BasilBrush · · Score: 1

      It has absolutely nothing to do with cables. IP numbers label endpoints, notional connections and packets. Not cables. You can push packets from as many different IP addresses as you like down a cable.

    8. Re:IPv6 by MythoBeast · · Score: 1

      While this is definitely a case for IPv6, it's a little more complicated than "Qatar should upgrade". If they upgraded to IPv6, unless Wikipedia serves with an IPv6 server, they would still need to go through an v6->v4 gateway in order to access it. Is Wikipedia ready for IPv6? Here we see the whole chicken/egg issue of IPv6.

      --
      Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
    9. Re:IPv6 by Holmwood · · Score: 3, Informative

      First, being geographically small and having a sole ISP has nothing to do with wealth. Second.

      Qatar not able to afford to upgrade to IPv6? And stuck using Win95?

      Uh... respectfully, how did the parent get marked "interesting"? Anyone who's thought about the middle east is well aware that, while it's a small country, "Oil and natural gas revenues enable Qatar to have one of the highest per capita incomes in the world." (CIA World Factbook, 2007).

      We seem good at marking Qatar as UAE, and characterizing it as a country too poor/ignorant to evolve beyond Win95.

      We should be thankful they're still allies of the US.

      Holmwood

    10. Re:IPv6 by kokojie · · Score: 0

      Qatar is extremely rich, their per capita income is similar to the US. they can certainly afford upgrading IPV6. As for sole ISP for a country, not very long ago, China has only 1 ISP, which is state owned.

    11. Re:IPv6 by arose · · Score: 1
      [..] enormous amounts of material, enormous amounts of material.
      --
      Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
    12. Re:IPv6 by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Here we see the whole chicken/egg issue of IPv6. If that's all that's stopping us, it should be rather easy to implement IPv6. We solved the chicken/egg issue a long time ago. The egg was around in other forms long before the chicken evolved.

      Come to think of it, this is exactly the opposite of the chicken/egg issue. We already have the chicken (IPv6) developed, we just need to start putting it in some eggs (ISPs). Eventually, through natural selection, ISPs which can offer 200 IP addresses per customer will become the dominant species.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    13. Re:IPv6 by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 1

      Quatar has more IP addresses. In fact, there are more IP addresses available that could be assigned to Quatar if they needed them. The IPv4 address shortage exists, but not on the "a whole country only gets 1 IP" level.

      The issue here is that the one ISP in Quatar has decided to implement Internet censorship (which makes them evil bastards) by using only a small number of proxy servers / NAT boxes. When you put an entire country behind a single NAT box, you're going to run into problems - the Internet was largely designed assuming that each computer got its own IP.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  2. well.. by macadamia_harold · · Score: 4, Funny

    Whilst the ban is due to spam-abuse coming from the IP address in question, the fact that this belongs to the country's sole high-speed internet provider has the unintended consequence of stopping Qatarese from editing the wiki.

    Actually, according to wikipedia, the correct word is Qatarded, not Qatarese.

    1. Re:well.. by DanielMarkham · · Score: 1

      I think the proper name for people who live in Qatar is quaternions.

      Oddly enough, most are really good at math.

    2. Re:well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting... I guess there's only one way to know for sure, and that's to get some first-hand input. Perhaps some one from Qatar could edit that entry to set the record straight? Oh, wait...

    3. Re:well.. by TropicalCoder · · Score: 1

      Great joke - but I'm afraid that only people with 3D graphics programming experience would get it... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion for non-graphics programmers)

    4. Re:well.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Re: your sig. It's actually funnier when someone writes Press Nipple, Get Bacon. Just thought you'd like to know.

  3. Impressive... by chazzf · · Score: 5, Informative

    That an entry from a block log is all it takes to make Slashdot these days. This also means that any concerns have, so far, been raised only in the head of the submitter. Note also that the block was re-tooled to allow account creation, so that only anonymous editing is prevented. Finally, the block is in place for one month, not indefinitely. Nothing to see here, move along.

    --
    No statement is true, not even this one.
    1. Re:Impressive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah.. I learnt more from reading the rest of this slashdot thread than from your dismissive post. Try and remember.. we aren't ALL knowitalls.

    2. Re:Impressive... by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1, Informative

      What's "anonymous" about a publicly visible IP address? Doesn't registering an account on Wikipedia actually make you more anonymous, not less?

      And how about the fact that your administrators block people with non-Western usernames on sight, with no warning and no recourse? Once you're blocked, you can't even try to create another username for 24 hours. I guess we must be vandals and trolls simply because we happened to be born with names in a script unreadable to Western eyes.

      Ugh. Apologies, but the mentality surrounding the whole project disgusts me.

    3. Re:Impressive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Substitute United States for Qatar, and suddenly 'only an entry from a block log' would be world-wide headlines. Entire parent post suffers from US-centric arrogance. Please revise.

    4. Re:Impressive... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      How about you revising your mom's worn out pussy. Fucking that shit is like sticking your dick in a glass of water. I mean, dammit man, help the bitch out. I aint going to keep paying for that shit if it's going to keep up like this. You see, this is the two thousands and a man's gotta have tight pussy, that loosey goosey shit went out in the nineties. Get it? I mean, I been buying her foodstamps so she can keep up with the crack habit I'm doing the best I can. You gotta meet me half way and shit.

      I was finger fucking her last night and I think I lost my watch in her shit. That was an expensive fucking precision timepiece too, man. Genuine Bolex straight out of china town. I don't appreciate shit like that. I'm a working man and I want my fucking watch back. Fuckface. Don't make me go all Rocky Balboa on your face, punk. I took your mom to go see that shit. I couldn't remember half the movie though cause your mom wouldn't leave me alone. Kept wanting to put her hand in my zipper jacking me off and shit. I told her to quit as I was trying to keep the camera straight so I could make my release on time. Now, since she fucked it up, some other crew got that shit up on IRC before I did. That fucking sucks dude. My people in Asia were counting on me.

      Fuck you and your mom. You both owe me money and I want my fucking money. Don't try to give me some fucking crack or your fucking piece of shit deck out of your hoopty, I want my fucking money. And your mom's pussy just ain't getting it no more so I'm a have to take it out of your ass. This is your last warning!

  4. Hard to block countries by canuck57 · · Score: 1

    It is hard to block a country, they can just use a web proxy to bypass IP blocking and change the PC browser country code to something friendly. Cat and mouse at best.

    1. Re:Hard to block countries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you actually edit from behind a proxy? Aren't Wikipedia servers supposed to prohibit this kind of editing by checking if a (open) proxy is being used?

    2. Re:Hard to block countries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why use a proxy? Just register a user account, and edit away. As a bonus, you can create pages. I noticed that anonymous editing is blocked where I work (a school's IP, so repeated vandalism), but I had no trouble logging on with my username and editing.

    3. Re:Hard to block countries by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Can you actually edit from behind a proxy? Aren't Wikipedia servers supposed to prohibit this kind of editing by checking if a (open) proxy is being used? There's a big difference between an open proxy and a proxy. Open proxies should be checked for and restricted by any site or service because there's no reason users should be connecting from them. An open proxy is, by definition, a proxy which anyone on the internet can connect through. A proxy, on the other hand, is a quite common thing. Many governments and governmental organizations route all of their traffic through proxies for security or bandwidth throttling reasons.

      Note that I'm not saying open proxies are a bad thing. I use them to access stupid websites, like NBC, which don't allow me to view episode listings because I'm not geographically located in the United States at the time I am accessing their website. It's also a great way to anonymize traffic or get around some of the less brilliant web monitoring or parental control software. A dozen log entries on my router saying I've accessed "anonymouse.org" would look a lot better than chickswithdicks.com, goatse.cx, etc. But it certainly does make a lot of sense for an IRC server or freely editable wiki to restrict or ban the use of open proxies.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
  5. Only one IP for the whole country. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article is implying that blocking one ip, wikipedia is blocking the whole country? Does Qatar really only have one IP? Or is it instead the case that any unlucky person in qatar has a chance of coming up with the blocked ip when they dhcp?

    1. Re:Only one IP for the whole country. by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      More likely, IPs are dynamically assigned, and Wikipedia banned the entire IP range of Quatar.

      I've seen vandals being blocked - this is usually a slow and extremely lenient process, with something like 2-3 offenses tolerated before they start handing out even day-long blocks for a single IP. I'd like to know what this guy did to make it necessary to prevent him from coming back for a month.

      I don't know about spammers though, they might be blocked more quickly.

    2. Re:Only one IP for the whole country. by Archeopteryx · · Score: 1

      Nope! Only ONE IP address for the whole country.

      --
      Dog is my co-pilot.
    3. Re:Only one IP for the whole country. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No - we only blocked one IP (I was implicitly involved in the blocking process). However, from time to time we do block IP ranges when we get a lot of vandalism/spamming from dynamic address. We allow multiple offences in many cases so that we can warn the user, in the hope that they will change their ways. In this case, we saw an IP address with over 150 edits, mostly spam, and 4 or 5 previous blocks. We tend to increase blocks in length each time we have to repeat, so this IP had spammed often enough that we issued a 1 month block (at thi stage not knowing that it was the whole of Qatar). Later, after those affected by the block contacted us, and we verified their claims, we adjusted and ultimately removed the block.

  6. They who make the bed ... by l2718 · · Score: 1

    This seems to be a technical weakness of Qatar's method of filtering the web access of its citizens. For a website which is accessible to everyone can, the IP address is the only way to distinguish visitors from each other. Now if the government of Qatar decided to hide all its citizen's IP addreses behind that of a proxy, then the citizens of Qatar should not be surprised when they cannot be distinguished from each other by web sites. Persumably Qataris who have Wikipedia user accounts (logons) would be able to edit anyway -- and others can petition their government to change its internet policy.

  7. Proxy servers to blame by MoHaG · · Score: 4, Informative

    If Wikipedia's information on the linked page is correct, the reason that the entire Qatar is blocked, is that it is the ip of a proxy server...

    It is common practice for ISP's in countries with limited bandwidth to transparently proxy all HTTP traffic in order to save bandwidth

    South Africa's SAIX does the same. However they have several proxy servers doing load sharing, which cause even more problems with sites that associate session information with one's IP. Online games preventing the trading of items by users on the same IP is also problematic.

    Sites offering access on an alternative port in addition to 80 would offer a solution.

    1. Re:Proxy servers to blame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Transparently" is the key and obviously Qatar is not doing this. Qatar is censoring internet access and maybe they even censor the content of POST requests.

    2. Re:Proxy servers to blame by MoHaG · · Score: 1

      I meant transparent for users, not the destination servers.

      An example of instructions to set up squid in this way can be found here

      Except for potential error messages to users (such as a cache access denied message) this kind of proxying is transparent to the user.

      SAIX does this as well, but the only errors ever seen is a few "Gateway timeout" messages.

    3. Re:Proxy servers to blame by Gldm · · Score: 1

      Yup! Though previously when I've mentioned this to ./ before figuring it out, it was ignored by askslashdot and help emails, or I was told I have no idea what I'm talking about by people who "obviously know more about SA's networks" than I do.

      IPv6 as mentioned by the poster up top won't solve issues like this. Paying $10/GB of traffic per month is the problem, not address space. Oh and despite what Telkom tells you, it's not that there's too much traffic for their poor transoceanic cables. Currently, just 25 percent of the SAT-3/WASC/SAFE capacity is being used. This is due to incompetence in negotiating reasonable peering agreements. Oh and I've priced the cost to lay a new line from the west coast of SA to say, Florida with AT&T laying the cable. It's about R4bn. Telkom makes more than that in profit per year, they could afford more capacity (and more is coming to the continent anyway), but since that's not the problem it won't solve anything. They just keep using it as an excuse to charge the 2nd highest rate for broadband in the world and pretend they're not still a government-owned monopoly.

      While Eskom has built a second fiberoptic net (which has been lying idle a couple years now, thanks ICASA!) to service the local infrastructure, I think they'll still run into the same issues at the international gateways.

      --

      Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!

  8. Only anon users by StrawberryFrog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Having read the page, it looks as if the Slashdot article may be incorrect. Users operating from that IP address and who are not logged in have been denied editing privileges due to abuse.

    This is a far lesser issue, it's more accountability than censorship.

    --

    My Karma: ran over your Dogma
    StrawberryFrog

    1. Re:Only anon users by nwetters · · Score: 3, Informative

      Before this story appeared on the front page of slashdot, Qataris were also prevented from creating new user accounts - thus preventing anyone from posting.

    2. Re:Only anon users by MacDork · · Score: 1

      If I were the Bush administration, and I wanted to know who was writing "propaganda" on Wiki, this still works for me.

    3. Re:Only anon users by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      Um. Given that anyone can create as many usernames as they like (without even supplying an email address!), so long as the name is Latin-based, how is a username on Wikipedia any less anonymous than an IP address?

      It's telling that Wikipedia's conception of "accountability" and "anonymity" are flawed at such a basic level.

    4. Re:Only anon users by Constantine+Evans · · Score: 1

      The term "anonymous account" is used in some policy documents, and thus continues to be used to refer to IP users, even though the majority of users will readily agree that user accounts provide better anonymity. The term is more an oddity of a large bureaucracy than an example of ignorance.

  9. Correction by l2718 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A "Technical Note" on the talk page clarifies that the blocking of an IP address includes a ban on creating new user accounts. There's no discussion of what happens with existing accounts though.

  10. Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School District by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The entire Calgary School District 192.139.27.18 is blocked and they are the biggest School District in Canada
    yes it is because of vandals (at other schools) but still I cannot do anything and Im not trying to vandalize but only add good content

  11. summary wrong by F�an�ro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wikipedia has blocked anonymous contributions from one IP, which happens to be a proxy from that country.
    Users can still edit wikipedia throught this proxy by creating an account and logging in.

    Creating a wikipedia account only requires a (throw-away) email, and is actually more anonymous, since your IP will not show up in the public logs if you are logged in.

    1. Re:summary wrong by thue · · Score: 2, Informative

      I also checked the fact, and came to the same conclusion. Mod parent up.

      I am a Wikipedia administrator, and I think this block on IP edits is completely correct. IP edits (edits from users without accounts without accounts) from proxy servers with many misbehaved users should always be blocked.

    2. Re:summary wrong by davidmcg · · Score: 2, Informative

      But as it says in the linked to post it's impossible to create a new account when logged in through the proxy, however, existing account holders should be fine.

    3. Re:summary wrong by GC · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, Gibraltar was recently blocked by Wikipedia in the same way and this has nothing to do with transparent proxies (GibTelecom do not use Transparent Proxies for their corporate flexiband links on which I came across this same problem recently). Trust me - I know a fair bit about transparent proxies.

      While possibly being logged in will allow editing of pages - that may be so for Qatars.

    4. Re:summary wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't actually *need* an email addy to make an account on wikipedia (or almost any mediawiki wiki) - it's optional, though encouraged

  12. OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Lots of people have tagged this story with 'uae'. Well contrary to what you might think Qatar is not part of the United Arab Emirates. It is an emirate and an independent state.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar

    If you agree that Qatar is not part of the UAE, please tag this story 'notuae' and mod this comment 'Informative' so everyone will see it.

    Let's show Qatar that unlike Wikipedia, Slashdot is not a haven of ignorance.

    1. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Funny

      Let's show Qatar that unlike Wikipedia, Slashdot is not a haven of ignorance.

      Says the guy who uses a Wikipedia link to back up his assertions... : p

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Das+Modell · · Score: 1

      Just because Wikipedia isn't 100% accurate at all times doesn't mean that it's useless as a source of information, especially very basic information.

    3. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by KutuluWare · · Score: 2, Funny
      Let's show Qatar that unlike Wikipedia, Slashdot is not a haven of ignorance.
      What the hell Slashdot have you been reading?
    4. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Mr2001 · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you agree that Qatar is not part of the UAE, please tag this story 'notuae' NO! To cancel out the "uae" tag, you should tag it !uae. Please stop adding extra useless tags.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    5. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by cprael · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Wikipedias do not have "accuracy" as a misssion. They do have "unbiased". You might note that there is a conflict there.

      Personally, I'd rather have accuracy.

    6. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by jc42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just because Wikipedia isn't 100% accurate at all times doesn't mean that it's useless as a source of information, especially very basic information.

      Yup; wikipedia is very much like a traditional dead-tree encyclopedia. Not surprising, since that was the basic model from the start. And the acknowledged limitation to "basic" information is why so many wikipedia pages have that list of references and links at the bottom.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    7. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Macthorpe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Really? Then you might have to edit the Five Pillars of Wikipedia page to remove this sentence:

      "All articles must follow our no original research policy and strive for accuracy"

      I mean, if accuracy isn't part of their mission then there's no reason that all their articles must strive to be accurate, right?

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    8. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      He must be filtering at +5. And at that, seldom reading any of the comments at all.

    9. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by BlueYoshi · · Score: 4, Funny

      I cant resist to suggest the use of the following tags:

      • !funny
      • !YourBusiness
      • !vatican
      • !mattingHabitOfPurpleTurtles
      • ...

      So we can be sure what the story is not talking about. So the article "U.S. Mass Declassified Documents At Midnight" could use the tags !mattingHabitOfPurpleTurtles, !DanceLesson, !FreedomFriesRecipe, !WOWGoldFarming, !KillingOfKittens, !Cthulluh^wd, !takeOverTheWorld^wd, !LOL, ...

      What is your favorite nontag?

      --
      "Use cases are fairy tales..." I. S. 2005
    10. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by LordKazan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      and the wikipedia rules are a abused to no end - i stopped editing wikipedia because a group of religiously-motivated individuals managed to use the wikipedia rules to bludgeon every editor who came in an tried to increase the accuracy a certain article. they make sure a bunch of dubious-pro-that-thing research gets cited but almost no anti-that-thing evidence gets cited (there being more of the later, especially since the article doesn't give the body part in question the assumption of innate value every other body part right down to your earlobe gets, and this part is a erogenious zone!).

      no, wikipedia is not about accuracy, it's about consensus. Consensus in a community of genital mutilators would be that genital mutilation is good and justified, consensus in a fascism regime is that fascism is good, consensus in a cult is that there was a space ship following hale-bop. Consensus and reality are OFTEN two different things.

      --
      If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
    11. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by psykocrime · · Score: 2, Funny

      What is your favorite nontag?

      !nontag

      --
      // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
    12. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Circumcision?

      Nipple piercing?

      We ache to know.

    13. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Pedrito · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fortunately, I'm not from Qatar, so I CAN edit wikipedia. Give me a few minutes and Qatar WILL be part of the UAE.

    14. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Omnifarious · · Score: 2, Funny

      If you don't provide a link to the article in question, the situation you describe will continue forever. If you do provide the link then it's possible it will be fixed. It also reduces your credibility significantly to be so vague.

      I'm guessing that the article you're referring to is Foreskin which looks reasonably well balanced to me right now.

    15. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well buddy, I'm not in Qatar either, give me a few minutes on Wikipedia and a Qatar will be a delicious dessert, made with apricots and honey and very popular in Florida, known for its ability to manifest intense flatulence.

    16. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Ltar · · Score: 1

      That sentence is proof that wikipedia is plauged with innacuracy.

    17. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by StikyPad · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Obviously you know little to nothing of purple turtle mats, which are relevant to almost every story, ever.

    18. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by nacturation · · Score: 1

      How very !y of you.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    19. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      !tag (which is paradoxical)
      !nontag (which is a tautology)
      !not (which is meaningless)
      !true

    20. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by LordKazan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      it is not that aricle, but it was a good guess

      --
      If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
    21. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      I have provided empirical evidence that shows that Wikipedia strives for accuracy. You have provided anecdotal evidence that people don't agree with your opinion.

      Now I can see why you stopped editing Wikipedia, and I'm sure Wikipedia thanks you for it.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    22. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm betting I agree with grandparent: one of those is most often undertaking willingly by consenting adults, the other is performed on infants who cannot consent and in 99.999% of cases is totally medically unjustifiable.

      there is your answer

    23. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      Well, if you had a story about laptops that couldn't display e-books, I suppose notebook and !ebook would both be acceptable.

    24. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by caol.kailash · · Score: 1

      I think you need to review your logic. !nontag would be a double negative, not a tautology. A tautology would be A = A, it's basically a simple identity statement. !nontag is not non-tag, although somewhat vague because it's not necessarily a tag, you could argue and interpret it as being a double negative (which I have) and so it would be a tag. Granted, a tag called tag is almost a tautology, I would argue it's not since you could tag a tag as being a tag, but that is essentially giving it a label. A tautology either is redundant use of terms adding no new information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(rhetoric) ) (which calling a term a tag wouldn't necessarily do depending on the context) or is true by it's logical form (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_(logic)) !true would be a paradox, I'll assume this was just a mistaken omission. This is basically the Liar's Paradox

    25. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of something called "burden of proof"? That is, that if you didn't provide all the details and evidence of your argument, then it's hardly 'middle-school logic' to say that you didn't do enough to prove your point.

      You didn't even bother to challenge what I said other than "I don't have to prove what I said. Generic playground insult."

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    26. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by oakgrove · · Score: 1

      I think we are on the same wavelength here but just to insert my 2 cents, Wikipedia much like Brittanica, World Book, Funk and Wagnall, etc. should be taken as simply a starting point to get one headed in the right direction for further research. We are taught as children (in school doing reports and such) to take encyclopedias as some sort of gospel and that attitude is just plain wrong. At the very least, the sources at the bottom of the entry should always be checked out to verify the verisimilitude of the article.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    27. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by simm1701 · · Score: 1

      On the whole I regard wikipedia about as useful as the google search of usenet.

      You can get lots of information, lots of flame wars on anything even remotely controversial and in the end you have to make up your own mind as to how accurate and unbiased it is.

      Atleast wikipedia does cite sources... usually - ho wmuch you trust those sources is another question...

      --
      $_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
    28. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by WgT2 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should reread this part of that line:

      ...strive...
      (emphasis mine)

      It is important for Wikipedia to not claim perfection but to claim attempts thereto for the sake of integrity (whether or not that is 100% obtainable as well).

    29. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by jc42 · · Score: 1

      Hmmm ... I don't remember ever thinking that encyclopedias were any sort of gospel. They were just a good place to find a brief, over-simplified summary of something. If you wanted more than minimal information, you had to look for a book that actually gave more than a few paragraphs to the topic. And, of course, an encyclopedia was expensive, so nobody had more than one, and the articles were usually rather old. That's ok for things that happened decades ago, but not for anything recent.

      And they never had anything about math. And they were pretty useless for astronomy. You'll find useful references to both of these in wikipedia. In particular, if you want to find the basic data about astronomical objects, wikipedia is a good place to start.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    30. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Negative tags could actually be very useful. Try to google for a laptop which does not have a touchpad, a computer without preinstalled OS, etc. Expressing negation like '-touchpad' is not possible, because the negated word usually appears in the searched page and the negation is expressed in the used language ("I did not have any problems with FooBar").

    31. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      Obviously you know little to nothing of purple turtle mats, which are relevant to almost every story, ever. Thank you. I would like to reward you with karma and a "first laugh" award, but I seem to be fresh out of both. Instead, I'll apologize for the idiot who modded this as offtopic. He will be disposed of shortly.
      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    32. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by LordKazan · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You implied that since i didn't go into detail that detail didn't exist, that's completely different than burdeon of proof in a logical debate. Don't backtrack and claim that your backtracking was your initial position.

      --
      If you cannot keep politics out of your moderation remove yourself from the Mod Lottery.. NOW!
    33. Re:OT: Qatar is not in the UAE by oakgrove · · Score: 1
      Hmmm ... I don't remember ever thinking that encyclopedias were any sort of gospel.

      Yeah, I figured we agreed on that which is actually why I replied to your comment. I was just trying to expand on what you were saying and inject some of my opinion into the discussion. I'm not trying to go on and on about this it's just that it irritates me to no end when some people get on and start bitching about how Wikipidia isn't accurate and all that after they point out some article that has some bias or is factually challenged or whatever. What they fail to realize is that, Wikipedia isn't going to be one hundred percent right on all things and it's absurd to say that Wikipedia is a failure or is useless because of this. It is just a tool not the ultimate source for serious inquiry. Just like all the printed encyclopedias. Common sense would seem to indicate these things so that they shouldn't have to be pointed out but obviously that's another tool that isn't evenly distributed amongst most people.

      And for the gospel comment, people are taught in grade school that encyclopedias are practically akin to some kind of "word of God" and people actually take this attitude into adulthood so when an encyclopedia is exposed for its errors, they (I guess) feel some sort of innate betrayal or whatever and go on some kind of crusade against them (encyclopedias). The absurdity of it boggles the mind.

      High fives, man.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
  13. It's actually a blow AGAINST censorship by goombah99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A state that has but a single ISP has the power of censorship readily available. By blocking this address, even as a side effect it is alerting the Quatarese to their peril. Conversely spam blocking is not censorship but rather the reverse, making public forums protected for the use of real speech. It also forces the the ISP to try to police it's own spam generators to our general benefit. Blocking it at the source is the desired solution. Hopefully people will vote with their feet and a new ISP in quatar will arise and give those folks some choice and protection from censorship.

    This is not a bad thing. While the side effect is temporarily drastic, if quatar had multiple ISPS we would not be discussing this at all.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:It's actually a blow AGAINST censorship by Otter · · Score: 2, Interesting
      A state that has but a single ISP has the power of censorship readily available.

      In the case of Saudi Arabia, that's exactly what happens. The whole country is behind a proxy server (or was, last I heard) and it's difficult to block a single abusive user without locking out everyone. That was my first thought reading this story, but Qatar has a vastly different government than Saudi Arabia does and there seem to be the usual accuracy problems with the summary here so I'll decline to speculate.

    2. Re:It's actually a blow AGAINST censorship by nwetters · · Score: 2, Informative

      ... Qatar has a vastly different government than Saudi Arabia

      You are correct in that there is more freedom of expression in Qatar than in Saudi, and the Ministry of Information was abolished in 1996. Unfortunately, QTel has not yet realised that there is no censorship in Qatar.

    3. Re:It's actually a blow AGAINST censorship by GrumpySimon · · Score: 1

      Please feel free to correct any and all mistakes I made in the summary, rather than just bitching about it.

    4. Re:It's actually a blow AGAINST censorship by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      The problem with voting with your feet when it's the government ISP is that few people have feet that can outrun bullets.

  14. I doubt it's a lack of external IPs by Rix · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rather, I imagine the proxies are used for censorship.

    1. Re:I doubt it's a lack of external IPs by Gideon+Fubar · · Score: 1

      why is this modded insightful?

      --
      http://www.xkcd.com/354/
  15. Some additional info... by de+la+mettrie · · Score: 4, Informative
    ...on this block:
    • Affected Qataris can still edit Wikipedia if they open a Wikipedia user account, which is a no-confirmation-required one-click action. Only anonymous editing is being blocked.
    • The duration of this "soft" block is currently one month, and will probably be prolonged if there is more repeated vandalism and spam coming from this address once the block expires.
    • Anonymous reading of Wikipedia is of course not blocked at all.
  16. Thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This past year of 2006 Anno Domini has seen much abuse and stress-testing of my Ironimeter XK.

    Mercifully, upon reading "impartiality", "wikipedia", "censorship", "editing", and "al-Jazeera journalist" all in one fell swoop, the old beast exuded the last of its magic smoke.

    I will now purchase the latest and most robust version of irony meter that I can find. I will not skimp on extra features, nor will I forego the rust-proof undercoating (those Colecos will rust up on you), in order to continue to enjoy one of the greatest satirical news sites ever: Slashdot 2007.

  17. Regarding others blocked, there's Slashdot/Bahrain by Shipwack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was stationed in the Kingdom of Bahrain for a few months, and apparently most of the country's internet goes through its University, which is (or was) blocked by Slashdot for some reason. I could access the site, but not login, even after I sent email to the Slashdot admins as instructed. Not very important in the grand scheme of things, just annoying at the time.

  18. IT in Qatar by nwetters · · Score: 4, Informative

    So, the problem appears to be fixed. Users can now register for accounts. Thank you slashdot front page (Kjkolb) ;)

    The problem came from QTel censorship. Every connection passes through a QTel proxy server, which uses some simplistic rules to determine whether you should be protected from your own surfing habits. If you hit blocked pages too often, your phone rings and when you answer in English you get "I'm sorry, I must have a wrong number. CLUNK." Thus your voice has been recorded for posterity.

    The shambles of Qatar's connection might be fixed soon. Q-CERT has just been set up and (hopefully), someone with a bit of influence will be in charge. It is obvious that a single point of failure for an entire population's internet connection is not sensible, but whether this means a better censorship system or the scrapping of censorship remains to be seen.

    1. Re:IT in Qatar by ZorinLynx · · Score: 1

      I'd think the best way to fix this would be to simply allow citizens to view whatever content they want without restrictions.

      Afterall, each person should be the judge as to what they want to look at or not, right?

      Or are they afraid of folks learning about new political ideas? Or *gasp* looking at pornography to entertain themselves harmlessly in the privacy of their own home?

      Censorship is such a pointless ultimate abuse of power. And I bet the leaders do it so they can get that warm fuzzy feeling in their testicles that they're exerting their testosterone-induced dominance over the hapless populace. Because of course, you can't let people look at what they want to look at; that would make too much sense!

      Idiots. Same goes for the Chinese officials and any other country that censors Internet access.

      -Z

    2. Re:IT in Qatar by funwithBSD · · Score: 1

      Careful, I think you just insulted the Prophet.

      --
      Never answer an anonymous letter. - Yogi Berra
    3. Re:IT in Qatar by jc42 · · Score: 1

      I'd think the best way to fix this would be to simply allow citizens to view whatever content they want without restrictions.

      You misread the story. Wikipedia isn't blocking reading; they're blocking anonymous edits. People in Qatar can read wikipedia without any blocking. (At least none from wikipedia.) They just can't edit wikipedia content without first identifying themselves.

      Remember the story a while back when wikipedia blocked edits coming from the US Congress's address? ;-)

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    4. Re:IT in Qatar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm really glad NOT to live in a 3rd world wookie country like Qatar and I bet a hundred camels that you are not a Qatari but some indian hired to do IT there.

      You suck.

    5. Re:IT in Qatar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wikipedia isn't; QTel is. Read the grandparent post! :)

  19. Re:so much for free speech by StartCom · · Score: 1

    This explain to me a lot!

  20. "it's true" by weierstrass · · Score: 1

    Please cite your sources.

    --
    my password really is 'stinkypants'
    1. Re:"it's true" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He read it on Wikipedia, so it must be true!

  21. So why doesn't Qarta just the stop the spammers? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    I work for a company that filters spam. We have to block big blocks of spammers now and again. To get off our blocked list, companies just have to stop the spammers. It usually just take a few days.

  22. You want Slashdot readers to actually RTFA??? by redstar427 · · Score: 1

    You may be asking too much. :P
    I think many Slashdot readers will have an opinion based on the title of the posting. :)

    --
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
  23. Please loose the excuses by portwojc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The ban has raised concerns about impartiality"

    Don't mask it with that or any other excuse. It's not Wikipedia's fault that they have only high speed provider who can't fix a simple problem.

    ISP:
    Problem: User X is abusing other networks.
    Solution: Account is turned off.

    Yes it's that easy if laziness weren't involved. This is exactly like those who whine when their network gets listed on an RBL. Where do those who are blocked go? They whine to the RBL or since they, the RBLs, aren't going to listen the world. They should complain to their network provider - it's where the problem is.

    1. Re:Please loose the excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Close.

      ISP:
      Problem: User X is abusing other networks.
      Solution: User is stoned to death.

    2. Re:Please loose the excuses by julesh · · Score: 1

      They should complain to their network provider - it's where the problem is.

      Tell you what, you get a major ISP to fix a broken mail server with only their customer services phone number to start from.

      Basically, the users get shafted. RBLs are a bad idea because of this.

  24. Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can very easy disable whole Russia. There is only one ISP who connect whole country with outer world.

    1. Re:Russia by eneville · · Score: 1

      You can very easy disable whole Russia. There is only one ISP who connect whole country with outer world. what are you talking about? blocking a carrier is not the same as blocking some ip space. for wikipedia to block golden telecom they would have to block huge ip spaces also... is that so different from blocking the isps in the uk, ukraine, china, for example? anyone in russia can get some ip space, just the same as someone in europe (ripe), or arin(america). anyone, can route an ip block via whatever routers they want, so your comment is rather pointless.

      http://www.ripn.net/ix/en/
  25. Not in support of censorship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    Qatar, and all of the other arab/islamic governments censor what their citizenry can see. This leads to "news" organizations such as al-jazeera arising, and "reporting" bile-laden "stories" as "independent reporting". This "reporting" seems to follow the government line in most cases, and terrorists lines for the rest of the cases.

    You can get spoon fed from the government, or the terrorists. Great choice.

    Wikipedia solved the issue by requiring a non-anonymous login to edit. They may need a slightly more nuanced version. We in the west often view this as a great way to hold people accountable for what they write. Unfortunately, so do governments that are, well, not that interested in little things such as free speech, freedom of expression, and related terrible western-imperial concepts. Thus such governments tend to crack down on their people who have the temerity to post what they see and think. Imagine what would happen to the governments if people actually started to freely comment and criticize the government. Heaven forbid!

    This is why the bloggers in Egypt have been arrested. This is why bloggers across the arab/islamic world have been threatened when they dare criticize the existing order, policies, governments. This is why media organizations tow the government line so hard. This is why we need to come up with a mechanism to enable them to post real content without fear of retribution. Censorship has many forms. Physical intimidation is practiced regularly by the governments in their corner of the world. Arrests, detention, spying all in the name of preservation of the repressive governments.

    We need to figure out how to help them get the tools of communication without enabling others to take that away from them. Wikipedia is one such tool. We need others.

    1. Re:Not in support of censorship by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Qatar, and all of the other arab/islamic governments censor what their citizenry can see.

      Not so: Qatar formally lifted censorship of the media in 1995 and since then the press has been essentially free from government interference. However, social and political constraints make self-censorship commonplace.

      (from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/count ry_profiles/791921.stm)

      The very reason al-Jazeera is there is because there is no overt censorship.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  26. Don't write if you don't read by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1, Informative

    unintended consequence of stopping Qatarese from editing the wiki Those from Qatar are Qatari. Plural is Qataris. "Qatarese", while sounding the same, would actually be the language of Qatar, if they did not speak Arabic and such a thing actually existed. This is a classic error made by someone who doesn't read much, or doesn't understand what he reads. At the risk of sounding trite, I will repeat what every professional writer says to every aspiring writer who asks what the best preparation is for writing: read a lot. If nothing else it will give you a grasp of the written language you simply cannot get from conversation. It helps you avoid stupid errors like using "should of" instead of "should've"/"should have", or "Qatarese" instead of "Quataris". A final hint for those who think simple conversational literacy ensures adequate writing skills for submitting written articles:
    IT DOESN'T, YOU TARDS!

    I'd complain about the lack of editing skills on the part of the Slashdot guys, but we already know that when they say "editor", what they really mean is "monkey trained to click a button when a text blurb makes him grin."
    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    1. Re:Don't write if you don't read by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

      They're Quatards.

    2. Re:Don't write if you don't read by fuzz6y · · Score: 3, Funny
      Those from Qatar are Qatari. Plural is Qataris. "Qatarese", while sounding the same, would actually be the language of Qatar, if they did not speak Arabic and such a thing actually existed. This is a classic error made by someone who doesn't read much, or doesn't understand what he reads.
      You're right, of course. This isn't a case of someone just not knowing a single obscure English word, it's a failure to intuit and apply a universal rule of the language. I mean, if there's one thing English has, it's simple, consistent rules. It clearly follows that they'd be called Qataris from the names of other peoples that everyone has heard of, like the Chinis, Japanis, Sudanis, Portugis, and Burmis.
      --
      If you're going to be elitist, it would help to be elite.
    3. Re:Don't write if you don't read by Sax+Maniac · · Score: 1
      Or, it clearly follows from the names of Iraqis and Pakistanis. Pick your rule.

      Still, the -ese suffix applied to a country is usually an adjective, and not a noun unless describing a language itself. You don't say "Fung is a Japanese"... a Japanese what?

      --
      I can explanate how to administrate your network. You must configurate and segmentate it, so it can computate.
    4. Re:Don't write if you don't read by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 1
      Not to rain on your joke, but there does seem to be a pattern. It looks to be geographical:
      • Israeli
      • Bahraini
      • Emirati
      • Kuwaiti
      • Yemeni
      • Iraqi
      Ok, once I started thinking about it - and looked them up - I realized there are a few asian ones also - not counting Thai :):
      • Pakistani
      • Bangladeshi
      • Azerbaijani
      • Kyrgyzstani
      Maybe it has to do with age. All of these became countries recently in the 20th century - and most of them in the last 30 years.
      CIA Factbook list of all nationalities
  27. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by sinclair44 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Exactly. The same happened for my school district; I wrote a note that it was a school proxy server on the IP's talk page, and they modified the block to only apply to unregistered users. Make a note and I'm sure they'll do the same for you.

    --
    Omnes stulti sunt.
  28. /. does the same thing by yahyamf · · Score: 2, Informative

    Slashdot blocks logins from the UAE as well most of the time. I have to use an http proxy to post comments. Several other sites do the same thing. The whole country's traffic goes through a handful of proxy servers, which are used by UAE's infamous monopoly ISP to censor content and block VoIP calls.

  29. Some Context: Blocking Wikispam by dfoulger · · Score: 4, Informative

    I can't speak for Wikipedia's spam blocking process, but I operate a Wiki that is well known enough to get a lot of spam. I block that fairly effectively. Seven pieces of true spam have gotten through over the two and a half years since I implemented the first version of my spam blocking, but I had almost half my site overwritten at one point before that, so I take it pretty seriously. I fully understand why many Wiki owners have decided to make their Wikis read only rather than deal with it and why others have resorted to required logons, confirmations of the existence of a human, and other measures. Some useful factoids:

    1. The volume of Wikispam attacks on my site more than doubled last month. I'm sure that Wikipedia gets a great deal more volume than I do and that they probably saw a similar percentage rise.
    2. Most Wikispam is focused on raising the Google ranking of one or more web sites. In the past a huge portion of the volume has been focused around pornography sites. This months most commonly advertised site is a search engine called Rollyo. Minor editorial: please boycott that search engine and its associated blog.
    3. Wikispam has a fairly predictable content and submission profile. While many Wikis have resorted to logins and address blocking, I've found the content so predictable that I actually removed my IP-based address blocking last month.
    4. One of the more predictable aspects of Wikispam is that it is often generated from many machines via robot attacks. One presumes that the attacker is not paying to use all of these different machines (e.g. that the machines have been hijacked).
    5. The middle east (and more specifically, Quatar, Kuwait, and the UAE in general) has proven to be a major source of robot attacks. I don't know if this means anything, but it suggests that machines in that part of the world are either poorly secured or have been effectively targeted by robot builders. I also get a lot of robot attacks through (presumably South) Korea.

    I don't want to make any great claims, at least in part because I don't want to increase the attack frequency on my site or get slashdotted, but my software has been very effective in blocking almost everything that the spammers throw at me. I don't currently block any countries and am reluctant to publicly reveal the rules I use for the blocking, but do block about a dozen IP addresses that have been used enough to suggest that they are directly associated with individual spammers.

    --
    Davis http://davis.foulger.net
  30. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by jalefkowit · · Score: 1

    Assuming the block on your school district is the same type as the one being discussed here, you can still "add good content". You just need to create a Wikipedia user account and do it while logged in. The block only stops contributions from non-logged-in users.

  31. Thailand by GerardM · · Score: 1

    Not only Qatar but also Thailand has large ISPs that are being blocked with some regularity. It is certainly not an isolated issue.
    Thanks,
          GerardM

  32. rfc1918 by unforkable · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Qtel is probably using private ip addresses, and a NAT.

    1. Re:rfc1918 by eneville · · Score: 1

      Qtel is probably using private ip addresses, and a NAT. this is a good thing as it's easier for the ISP to organise their own network infrastructure space.
    2. Re:rfc1918 by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      this is a good thing as it's easier for the ISP to organise their own network infrastructure space.

      I'm sorry but NAT is never a good thing since it breaks the peer-to-peer design of the internet, rendering peer-to-peer applications such as VoIP, bittorrent, etc. difficult or impossible to use.

      Additionally, RFC1918 addresses are of site-local scope - i.e. they are reserved for use on a LAN. Using them on a WAN is bad since it leads to addressing conflicts with people who are using the networks in their intended scope. There is no good reason to abuse RFC1918 networks in this way - global scope IPv4 addresses are not that scarce yet.

    3. Re:rfc1918 by eneville · · Score: 1

      this is a good thing as it's easier for the ISP to organise their own network infrastructure space.

      I'm sorry but NAT is never a good thing since it breaks the peer-to-peer design of the internet, rendering peer-to-peer applications such as VoIP, bittorrent, etc. difficult or impossible to use. that is technically wrong. there is nothing that NAT breaks. i think you might be confusing masquerading with NAT. nat is just network address translation, it's not ip_masq, which is something different that uses NAT for the end result of sharing one or more IP addresses on a network.

      Additionally, RFC1918 addresses are of site-local scope - i.e. they are reserved for use on a LAN. Using them on a WAN is bad since it leads to addressing conflicts with people who are using the networks in their intended scope. There is no good reason to abuse RFC1918 networks in this way - global scope IPv4 addresses are not that scarce yet. NAT is highly useful in large ISPs where blocks or single IP addresses can easily be maintained without loosing slack IP addresses as part of a CIDR block where excess was originally allocated.

      of course if you think it's better to over allocate and loose IP addresses because you want a full, traditionally routed network then that's up to you.

      much of the internet community only use web and email. i would say 10% might use other things too that require a public IP address to communicate, in these cases it's easy to do 1:1 NAT (BINAT, S/DNAT etc) to achieve this, whilst letting the customer continue with a private IP address. This makes life incredibly easy for the network infrastructure people.
    4. Re:rfc1918 by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      that is technically wrong. there is nothing that NAT breaks. i think you might be confusing masquerading with NAT. nat is just network address translation

      However you use it, NAT rewrites the addresses on packets - this _does_ cause problems for anything that relies on the packets getting to the other end unchanged.

      If the source address of the packet has been rewritten and the recipient of that packet expects to be able to contact the sender on that address, it will not work unless the NAT has specific knowledge about the protocol and can therefore apply the appropriate translations to the packets it receives.

      Similarly, if the protocol contains IP addressing information encapsulated within the payload (examples of this include SIP, ESP, AH, FTP) that information may be invalid if the address's scope is restricted unless the NAT has enough knowledge of the protocol to rewrite the payload as well as the IP header (this is not possible in the case of ESP and AH since it would need knowledge of the private keys).

      This applies to *any* form of NAT.

      NAT is highly useful in large ISPs where blocks or single IP addresses can easily be maintained without loosing slack IP addresses as part of a CIDR block where excess was originally allocated.

      of course if you think it's better to over allocate and loose IP addresses because you want a full, traditionally routed network then that's up to you.


      The above sentences do not make sense. In fact, they still don't make sense if I assume you mean "lose" rather than "loose".

      There is no loss of IP addresses involved in allocating small subnets and no requirement to over allocate (other than the usual BGP routing filters which will prevent routes smaller than /20 being propagated).

      much of the internet community only use web and email. i would say 10% might use other things too that require a public IP address to communicate

      That 10% is set to increase with the growth of peer to peer technologies. It is not the ISP's job to restrict the technologies their customers choose to use.

      in these cases it's easy to do 1:1 NAT (BINAT, S/DNAT etc) to achieve this, whilst letting the customer continue with a private IP address.

      And this will _still_ cause problems for a lot of protocols since your local IP address will never match the address you present to the rest of the internet. Even worse: depending on how the ISP has set up the routing you may be presenting one IP address to other customers of the ISP and a completely different IP address to everyone else.

      This makes life incredibly easy for the network infrastructure people.

      This makes life incredibly difficult for the end users. If the network administrators can't deal with setting up a network without the need for NAT then they need to be fired and replaced by people who know how to use the well established tools that automatically sort out stuff like routing for you - it's really not that hard.

      Having installed and maintained a lot of large IP networks over many years, I've dealt with both networks that employ NAT extensively and completely NAT-free networks. In my experience, NAT causes a lot more problems than it solves and I would opt for the NAT-free option every time, given a choice. The only exception to this is for certain load sharing and fail-over situations where NAT can prove useful so long as it's use has been well thought out.

    5. Re:rfc1918 by eneville · · Score: 1

      that is technically wrong. there is nothing that NAT breaks. i think you might be confusing masquerading with NAT. nat is just network address translation

      However you use it, NAT rewrites the addresses on packets - this _does_ cause problems for anything that relies on the packets getting to the other end unchanged.

      If the source address of the packet has been rewritten and the recipient of that packet expects to be able to contact the sender on that address, it will not work unless the NAT has specific knowledge about the protocol and can therefore apply the appropriate translations to the packets it receives.

      Similarly, if the protocol contains IP addressing information encapsulated within the payload (examples of this include SIP, ESP, AH, FTP) that information may be invalid if the address's scope is restricted unless the NAT has enough knowledge of the protocol to rewrite the payload as well as the IP header (this is not possible in the case of ESP and AH since it would need knowledge of the private keys).

      This applies to *any* form of NAT. this is a pretty obvious efect of masquerading NAT. anything with a callback does not work, transparently.

      NAT is highly useful in large ISPs where blocks or single IP addresses can easily be maintained without loosing slack IP addresses as part of a CIDR block where excess was originally allocated.

      of course if you think it's better to over allocate and loose IP addresses because you want a full, traditionally routed network then that's up to you.


      The above sentences do not make sense. In fact, they still don't make sense if I assume you mean "lose" rather than "loose".

      There is no loss of IP addresses involved in allocating small subnets and no requirement to over allocate (other than the usual BGP routing filters which will prevent routes smaller than /20 being propagated).

      much of the internet community only use web and email. i would say 10% might use other things too that require a public IP address to communicate

      That 10% is set to increase with the growth of peer to peer technologies. It is not the ISP's job to restrict the technologies their customers choose to use.

      in these cases it's easy to do 1:1 NAT (BINAT, S/DNAT etc) to achieve this, whilst letting the customer continue with a private IP address.

      And this will _still_ cause problems for a lot of protocols since your local IP address will never match the address you present to the rest of the internet. Even worse: depending on how the ISP has set up the routing you may be presenting one IP address to other customers of the ISP and a completely different IP address to everyone else.

      This makes life incredibly easy for the network infrastructure people.

      This makes life incredibly difficult for the end users. If the network administrators can't deal with setting up a network without the need for NAT then they need to be fired and replaced by people who know how to use the well established tools that automatically sort out stuff like routing for you - it's really not that hard.

      Having installed and maintained a lot of large IP networks over many years, I've dealt with both networks that employ NAT extensively and completely NAT-free networks. In my experience, NAT causes a lot more problems than it solves and I would opt for the NAT-free option every time, given a choice. The only exception to this is for certain load sharing and fail-over situations where NAT can prove useful so long as it's use has been well thought out. most protocols that do require a callback, allow the users to configure the outward ip.

      i dont know what problems you have had in the past, but for a small ISP NAT can be a real lifesaver. it's nothing bad to use NAT when the company cannot afford ip space.
    6. Re:rfc1918 by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      this is a pretty obvious efect of masquerading NAT. anything with a callback does not work, transparently.

      Why do you not consider this a problem?

      most protocols that do require a callback, allow the users to configure the outward ip.

      So in an effort to keep things simple for the ISP's clueless netadmins, the ISP is making things more complex for their customers - now instead of things Just Working the user has to do some custom configuration of each piece of software. Setting a specific external address will also break anything *not* going through the NAT, so you better be sure you NAT everything, even if it's staying within the ISP's network.

      Not to mention the nasty tweaks that need to be done to DNS to ensure that all A RRs resolve to the correct address (outside the ISP the A RRs need to resolve to the global scope address, inside the ISP they need to resolve to the RFC1918 address). Also a similar arrangement needs to be made for PTR RRs to ensure the addresses resolve to the same name.

      i dont know what problems you have had in the past, but for a small ISP NAT can be a real lifesaver.

      You can guarantee that I wouldn't remain a customer of an ISP that forces me through a NAT and I would strongly advise all my customers to avoid using such an ISP. NAT causes a *lot* of problems and frankly I don't have time to sort out applications that either don't work or require custom configuration just because of the ISP cutting corners.

      it's nothing bad to use NAT when the company cannot afford ip space.

      I don't know what sort of joke of an ISP can't afford IP space. That's more or less equivalent to a baker who can't afford flour. Any ISP employing NAT in this way is going to spend more on customer support staff to deal with the problems it creates than they would've spent on the IP space in the first place.

      Seriously - if you think that it's easier to set up a network that employs NAT on it's edge instead of running a fully routed transparent network you need to investigate automated routing protocols such as OSPF.

      You keep claiming that using NAT saves a large amount of IP network space, but I honestly can't see how it creates a significant saving if you're going to provide 1:1 mapping between all your RFC1918 addresses and the global scope addresses.

      You also need to take steps to ensure that no RFC1918 addresses are leaked and this will undoubtedly cause significant problems with any network diagnostics since the usual tools such as traceroute, ping, etc will likely produce erroneous, incomplete and confusing output.

    7. Re:rfc1918 by eneville · · Score: 1

      this is a pretty obvious efect of masquerading NAT. anything with a callback does not work, transparently.

      Why do you not consider this a problem?
      why would it be a problem to a open access wireless provider, a cafe perhaps, or a public transport network etc etc. not everyone needs, or indeed should, require p2p.


      most protocols that do require a callback, allow the users to configure the outward ip.

      So in an effort to keep things simple for the ISP's clueless netadmins, the ISP is making things more complex for their customers - now instead of things Just Working the user has to do some custom configuration of each piece of software. Setting a specific external address will also break anything *not* going through the NAT, so you better be sure you NAT everything, even if it's staying within the ISP's network.

      Not to mention the nasty tweaks that need to be done to DNS to ensure that all A RRs resolve to the correct address (outside the ISP the A RRs need to resolve to the global scope address, inside the ISP they need to resolve to the RFC1918 address). Also a similar arrangement needs to be made for PTR RRs to ensure the addresses resolve to the same name.

      i dont know what problems you have had in the past, but for a small ISP NAT can be a real lifesaver.

      You can guarantee that I wouldn't remain a customer of an ISP that forces me through a NAT and I would strongly advise all my customers to avoid using such an ISP. NAT causes a *lot* of problems and frankly I don't have time to sort out applications that either don't work or require custom configuration just because of the ISP cutting corners.

      it's nothing bad to use NAT when the company cannot afford ip space.

      I don't know what sort of joke of an ISP can't afford IP space. That's more or less equivalent to a baker who can't afford flour. Any ISP employing NAT in this way is going to spend more on customer support staff to deal with the problems it creates than they would've spent on the IP space in the first place.

      Seriously - if you think that it's easier to set up a network that employs NAT on it's edge instead of running a fully routed transparent network you need to investigate automated routing protocols such as OSPF.

      You keep claiming that using NAT saves a large amount of IP network space, but I honestly can't see how it creates a significant saving if you're going to provide 1:1 mapping between all your RFC1918 addresses and the global scope addresses.

      You also need to take steps to ensure that no RFC1918 addresses are leaked and this will undoubtedly cause significant problems with any network diagnostics since the usual tools such as traceroute, ping, etc will likely produce erroneous, incomplete and confusing output. you have valid points, that you mentioned a few messages back, but these, requirements are not what every user wants, yes, it's nice to have. but like i said above, sometimes it's better for the isp to use NAT.

      perhaps you don't like NAT networks, i didn't say you had to. for me, in my experience at various ISPs in the networking department i have seen NAT very well deployed, and the majority of customers do not realise this. there was one or two instances with things like the blaster worm that caused huge problems on the network where the customers had public IP addresses, their systems caused a lot of problems for others in the same network space. at least the customers on the NAT network did not get this problem.

      they both have their own advantages and disadvantages. different strokes, for different folk.
  33. For comments on some topics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    a negative score == a positive score.

    While the problem with Wiki in this case is technical, it starts with handshake deals (corrupt government) and a desire to control the flow of information. Do you really think Qatar has only one ISP because of supply/demand economics?

  34. Re:Regarding others blocked, there's Slashdot/Bahr by that+this+is+not+und · · Score: 1

    Isn't Bahrain the location of the guy who was posting off-topic comments during Pete Townshend's pedophilia trial?

    You don't want to mess around when it concerns ol' "Rough Boy" Pete.

  35. Duping Wikipedia into censoring your citizens by davidwr · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Great, now all an authoritarian country has to do is have the state-controlled ISP flood Wikipedia with spam.

    Wikipedia blocks that country's editors.

    Editors cry "censorship."

    Wikipedia blames ISP for allowing spam.

    ISP says "they will look into it" but conveniently never fixes the problem.

    On a side-note, Wikipedia should allow editors who are registered, provide a valid email-address, and can prove they are human to continue to edit from all blacklisted IP-blocks except perhaps those known to be used only by troublemakers.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Duping Wikipedia into censoring your citizens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Listen retard. Wikipedia only blocked anonymous editing. If those from Qatar who were blocked (i.e., never took the time to login) really want to edit it then they simply need to subscribe to a wikipedia account, login and then they are free to edit whatever they wish.

      On a side note, your bitchy brainfart about what wikipedia should or should not allow is wikipedia's default policy since... ever.

      At least try to get a clue about what wikipedia is before trying to write anything about that. Retard.

  36. Spam Abuse by tacocat · · Score: 1

    If Qatar get's whacked as a nation I don't really care. It's because of their flagrant disregard for the number one problem on the internet today. SPAM.

    And it wasn't Qatar that got whacked. It was their only ISP that got whacked. How is this any different from blocking res.rr.com? Answer: It's not. It just happens that they don't have a lot of other ISP choices out there. Too bad.

    I have no sympathies for any nation that tops the list of spam abuse and I have no sympathies for ISP's that have no real controls on spam abuse. It's a huge problem and it will continue as long as companies/nations believe that they can run spam through their doors without ramifications.

  37. This is why anonymous editing is bad by Dachannien · · Score: 1

    Wikipedia wouldn't have this sort of problem if they implemented a policy where you had to register an account in order to edit. Then they could block offending accounts and impose a temporary block on new account creation from an IP address or range whenever a problem arose. This would allow all the established editors to continue editing even if they share an IP address with an entire flotilla of spammers/vandals.

    1. Re:This is why anonymous editing is bad by mabu · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never run PhpBB, or any other popular system that requires registration to post content.

      The most effective server-side solution is keyword blacklisting. User registration is easily bypassed. However, IP blacklisting is also a very good option and has the added benefit of putting pressure on the offending ISP to control the illegal and unethical behavior of its customers.

    2. Re:This is why anonymous editing is bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm... the Qataris *are* allowed to register an account in order to edit. The only thing that has been blocked is anonymous editing.

      Pay attention.

  38. al jazeera connection by updatelee · · Score: 1

    I don't see the connection here, because qatar's isp is having issues with some punk editing wiki pages, and because many of al jazeera's reporters live in qatar, means their impartial ? i don't get it.

    so ...

    the unibomber being from the usa makes all citizens of the usa terrorists ? or does it imply only that cnn is impartial ? I don't get it.

  39. This is a very good thing by mabu · · Score: 1

    The reason why there is spamming is because the ISP is irresponsible and doesn't enforce its own terms of service among its users. In lieu of rogue ISPs (which also include domestic ones like Comcast, AT&T and others) the only realistic alternative is to wholesale ban their IP space until they get their act together and start clamping down on the illegal activities of their customer nodes.

    It sucks this has to be done, but there's no other way, short of civil/criminal prosecution, to make them take responsibility for the behavior of their customers who are wreaking havoc on the rest of the Internet.

    1. Re:This is a very good thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually do not know very many ISPs who will get involved in these types of disputes.

      Do you think that SBC gives a rat's ass when some jackass gets the entire local region of DSL subscribers a pink page ban from Slashdot?

      There is a fine line between some website and a petty dispute over customer behavior and actual spamming. Most ISPs don't want to get involved with a political disagreement that results in abuse emails complaining about SPAM. I think the same goes for Wikipedia vandalism or mere violoation of Wikipedia rules (that may not normally be classified as SPAM). Does the typical ISP want to get involved in that mess? I think not. I'm sorta glad too. To think of all the flamewars I have gotten into with threats of calling my ISP over my opinions and arguments.

      Therefore, I think it is up to Wikipedia to become as clever and judicious as possible to deal with the problem the best they can.

      Perhaps, in situations like this, Wikipedia could implement a "screened edit" process where you can still edit articles, but a Moderator has to screen the edit before it can be applied to a page. This way, innocent people are protected, and spammers will not ruin the encyclopedia.

  40. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

    Good luck trying to register a username if you find yourself on the wrong end of a mistaken block. Neither is there any way to contact anyone who might be of any help--remember, you can't edit talk pages either.

    And this is the way things are supposed to work, according to Wikipedia's admins.

  41. re: Wikipedia Blocks Qatar by spiderbatman · · Score: 1

    I have faith that Wikipedia will resolve this problem. We should sympathize Wikipedia for they have made such great projects for the benefit of all the people, and the Qatarese people for they are no longer able to access this website, this great source of information, all because just a few very malicious indivisuals try to sabotage this great effort of making this project.

    We should give moral support to Wikipedia and the Qatarese people, and give our best wish to them that one day this problem will be resolved.

    By the way, the author of this article should say 'Wikimedia' instead of 'Wikipedia', right? Because Wikipedia is the name of the encyclopedia, and Wikimedia is the company that manages Wikipedia. (Maybe I should write 'Wikimedia' instead, too.)

  42. Wikiedit by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

    If they want to edit Wiki so bad, they can dial up the old modem and do so slowly.

  43. Qataris not Qatarese by kbahey · · Score: 1

    A person who is a citizen of Qatar is called a Qatari, and plural is Qataris.

    Qatarese is wrong.

  44. Wikipedia May Have Made Good Call by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 0, Troll

    If as the parent implied, Wikipedia is being overrun by Al Jazeerites from Qatar (Gutter), I don't see what the problem is. In fact, Wikipedia may have actually successfully fixed one, for once.

    --
    Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
  45. Al Jazeera need edit access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Putting aside all issues with Al Jazeera's creditability as an unbiased news source, why would someone in that organization even need edit access in a professional capability? It would seem potentially like a conflict of interest or potentially an act against terms of employment by contributing to another news and information source. If I were an AP employee, for example, I doubt that my contract would allow contributing this kind of stuff for free. I think that the conceptual link to AJ is specious reasoning at best but is more than likely just there to stir up crap.

  46. hitting back? by arielCo · · Score: 1

    So it's not only heavy-handed governments blocking WP. It can work backwards too. Oblig: in Soviet Qatar, Wikipedia blocks you!

    --
    This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
  47. Huh? by javachip · · Score: 1

    Uhhhh, what do you think this is, Wikipedia?

    --
    The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race. - Don Marquis (1878-1937)
  48. What's so hard about transliteration? by tepples · · Score: 1

    I guess we must be vandals and trolls simply because we happened to be born with names in a script unreadable to Western eyes.

    On the Wikipedia designated for the English language, you are expected to contribute text readable by speakers of the English language. What's so hard about picking some transliteration for your username? Even IM-speak would work.

    1. Re:What's so hard about transliteration? by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      Nothing, of course, except for the fact that you can't try to register again for 24 hours after you've been blocked, and in my case the block happened with no warning, and I only learned the reason why after digging in the block log. Also note that I'd made dozens of contributions by this point, in several cases rewriting whole articles.

      Wikipedia admins need to learn that this kind of shit tends to piss people off. No wonder you guys are so afflicted by trolls and vandalism.

  49. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

    So create an account from another computer outside of the proxy force field, or tunnel out to another proxy. It's not that hard to dodge these autoblocks.

    --
    I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
  50. Old Strategy by Form-o-Stuff · · Score: 1

    I wonder what will happen at the end of that month-long ban. The overwhelming influx of spam from the same country as many Al-Jazeera journalists sounds like a digital equivalent of Feds dressed as anarchists throwing bricks through Starbucks windows to discredit a peace rally.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTO_Ministerial_Confe rence_of_1999_protest_activity#.22N30.22

  51. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

    No, not too difficult, that is if you spend your entire life being a computer geek. But for the average person whose contributions Wikipedia claims to want, it might not be worth the effort.

  52. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by wolrahnaes · · Score: 1

    I can understand the tunnel being geeky, but the easier solution of just leaving the proxied network is simple even for the most technophobic individuals. Obviously this doesn't work for those unfortunate people in countries like Qatar, but this thread was about a school district in Canada. Canada being a first-world country with multiple competitive ISPs, it won't be hard to leave that particular network.

    --
    I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
  53. Wikipedia:Changing username by tepples · · Score: 1

    When you are blocked, you can still post to your user talk page, except in the most exceptional cases. I think administrators can change a non-Latin username on request.

    1. Re:Wikipedia:Changing username by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      You can post to your talk page... where your plea for help will remain, ignored, for the rest of eternity.

      Look, I'm a big fan of the concept behind Wikipedia, but somewhere along the line, the implementation's gone terribly wrong. Wikipedia's administrators really need to chill out when it comes to throwing out bans like candy. It's as if none of them could even imagine they could ever be mistaken, or that once you've been banned, you have essentially no recourse that doesn't involve crossing your fingers and praying to unseen deities.

    2. Re:Wikipedia:Changing username by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      Also, consider: Supposing you actually find the username change request page—I know it's the first time I've ever seen it—how are you supposed to request a change when you're blocked from editing the page? (Insert Matrix reference here.)

      Note that (1) "Be sure that you are logged in to the relevant account. For security reasons, bureaucrats will not effect a name change if the request comes from an unauthorized user or an IP address." and (2) Logging into a blocked account, last I knew, prevents you from making any edits or registering a new account for 24 hours.

  54. techno artifact to take on greater weight? by wallet55 · · Score: 1

    This could become a small but interesting example of a sociological/technological interface quirk pivoting on an event and eventually taking on greater weight historically or sociologically. (Such as the oft cited connection between horses behinds and the space shuttle design http://www.aqua.co.za/assa_jhb/Canopus/c99aSpec.ht m) As web 2.0 takes on greater weight, monolithic ISP's poorly managed centralized systems etc, may have their flaws highlighted, and in order to keep up, will have to mend their ways. So it is entirely possible that years from now, someone might cite this as an example of how spam helped end authoritarian rule in the 21st century....well, we can hope!

  55. If you block account creation... by tepples · · Score: 1

    IP edits (edits from users without accounts without accounts) from proxy servers with many misbehaved users should always be blocked.

    Even if the edit is to the account creation log? How are contributors who live in Qatar supposed to create Wikipedia accounts if the country's only ISP's entire IP address space is blocked?

  56. But can blocked IPs create accounts? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Affected Qataris can still edit Wikipedia if they open a Wikipedia user account, which is a no-confirmation-required one-click action

    Does Wikipedia permit users on blocked IP addresses to create accounts? Or is account creation denied in an attempt to prevent block evasion? Or do people have to already have a friend outside Qatar who is willing to create an account?

    1. Re:But can blocked IPs create accounts? by imthesponge · · Score: 1

      Blocking account creation is optional.

  57. And why would that *help*... by jwigum · · Score: 1

    The government would then only allow and control the single IPv6 address into the country... I may be unaware of part of IPv6, but my recollection is that it allows for more addresses due to a larger format. It doesn't look like that would solve this problem. The issue here lies in the very small and controlled pipe into the country, not with the network running on either side.

    --

    Look behind you...

  58. Request templates have associated categories by tepples · · Score: 1

    You can post to your talk page... where your plea for help will remain, ignored, for the rest of eternity.

    What makes you think that? The template used to make an administrative request places your user page in a category that the administrators check routinely.

    1. Re:Request templates have associated categories by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 1

      What template? How would I have known about it to make the request?

      Certainly I was never informed of any such template before giving up and leaving with a bad taste in my mouth. But if things have changed in the intervening months, I'll be relieved to know Wikipedia's at least trying to become friendlier to potential contributors.

    2. Re:Request templates have associated categories by tepples · · Score: 1

      What template? How would I have known about it to make the request?

      The error messages that the installation of MediaWiki on en.wikipedia.org gives contain links to the request templates.

      Certainly I was never informed of any such template

      Perhaps you were just unlucky enough to get a bad version of the error message. I don't know; perhaps you can ask an administrator what went wrong. The templates should work now.

  59. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HI KATIE

  60. Impartiality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's probably the Al Jazeera writers doing it. Besides, it's not like it's Wikipedia's fault that the IP address is the sole high-speed ISP.

  61. This story is completely false. by jwales · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't know what else to say about it. Wikipedia is not blocking Qatar. An IP number was blocked for about 12 hours. There was an admin discussion about the issue. The IP number was unblocked.

    Move along, nothing to see.

    --Jimbo Wales

    --
    Wikia
    1. Re:This story is completely false. by jamie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You wrote on the linked Wikipedia page:

      This IP number was temporarily blocked for less than 12 hours, and a block of an entire nation would go absolutely against Wikipedia policy. In the English Wikipedia, such an action would require approval of at a minimum the English Arbitration Committee and/or me personally, and would never ever be undertaken lightly, nor without extensive attempts at direct negotiation with the ISP and/or nation in question.

      A user who claims to be from Qatar has added, below your comment:

      As one who was affected by the block, I'd like to clarify. On 30 December 2006, a Wikipedia admin placed a one-month block on the IP address 82.148.97.69 for reasons of chronic vandalism and spam. The IP address turned out to belong to a QTel proxy server, and thus anonymous posting from the whole of Qatar was blocked. Account creation was also blocked, but this condition was later relaxed after the ban was widely reported across technology sites.

      Apparently the block was reverted, as you say, in under 12 hours. Was the block originally put in place as a one-month block or not? If so, then saying it was "temporarily blocked for less than 12 hours" omits an important detail, and saying "a block of an entire nation would go absolutely against Wikipedia policy... and would never ever be undertaken lightly, nor without extensive attempts at direct negotiation" is misleading (since, whether it is against policy or not, it happened, and was done apparently without attempts at negotiation).

      Also, can you comment on whether account creation was unblocked before or after the ban was widely reported? If Slashdot got the story wrong, we will surely update it. But changing the ban after reports surface, and then saying "Move along, nothing to see," is not the same thing.

      (For the record, an ISP that routes every user through one IP can expect to have this kind of thing happen. I hope this encourages Qatar and/or its ISP to get a better outgoing-IP policy. If Slashdot had repeated anonymous abuse from this IP we would probably ban it from anonymous posting, and later probably unban it, in pretty much exactly the way Wikipedia seems to have done.)

    2. Re:This story is completely false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
    3. Re:This story is completely false. by jwales · · Score: 1, Informative

      Account creation was unblocked when the ip address was unblocked. The admin who originally did the block apologized immediately when his error was pointed out, and the ip address was unblocked. Everything at Wikipedia is done by volunteers who monitor everything constantly. All sorts of things go on, ip numbers are blocked and unblocked all the time. Sometimes mistakes are made and then corrected.

      My point is that a headline of "Wikipedia blocks Qatar" is inflammatory and gives people entirely the wrong idea.

      --
      Wikia
    4. Re:This story is completely false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Qatar has but one Internet provider and there is nothing anyone can do about it because this is a dictatorship and they have sole rights to all electronic communication to the entire country.

      I have a house in qatar and its really sad because i cant get on any downloads or anything because they all block this IP address, Its a few bad people messing it up for all of us and there is nothing anyone can do.

      BTW Q-Tel the nations Internet provider makes over 100% profit, mainly due to their taxes of radio stations and any radio device.

    5. Re:This story is completely false. by ral315 · · Score: 3, Informative

      As the administrator who unblocked the IP, I can clarify. The account was originally blocked with account creation disabled. Upon recognition that this was Qatar's IP, another administrator allowed account creation, and I removed the block altogether shortly thereafter.

    6. Re:This story is completely false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know what else to say about it. Wikipedia is not blocking Qatar. An IP number was blocked for about 12 hours. There was an admin discussion about the issue. The IP number was unblocked.

      According to Wikipedia's own logs, "under 12 hours" is totally inaccurate. A block was put in place on 30 December; then 44+ hours later it was lifted and immediately re-established (the comments suggest that this was removal of the account creation ban); then 8 hours later the block was removed. Anonymous editing was blocked for over two days.

    7. Re:This story is completely false. by jwales · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're right, I had not noticed that.

      --
      Wikia
    8. Re:This story is completely false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mr. Wales' idea of what is the right or wrong idea appears to be self-interested. The right idea, which is completely accurate, was that anyone using reguarl connectivity services in Quatar to edit Wikipedia was most definately blocked from editing not once, but several times.

      Mr. Wales' claim that the idea is "completely false" is consistent with his routine reliance on totalistic claims. While Mr. Wales tours the world boasting of Wikilove, cooperation and inclusion, he routinely paints his critics with a broad brush -- often simultaneous with quiet efforts to assimilate the substance of criticisms as if they were original ideas. Mr. Wales does not acknowledge that the reports are largely true, and that his criticism only clarifies the methodology whereby the Wikimedia Foundation administrators thrice effectively blocked edits from an entire nation.

        Mr. Wales was documented planning this campaign to publicly rebut criticism, encouraging his inner circle to drop comments where ever they can challenging the obvious truth of the report by whittling away at the facts. Far from being an open forum for discussing of how events worldwide and within Wikipedia are most accurately represented, a peek behind the curtains of Wikipedia reveals a constant, boistrous and ongoing campaign of spin control - often conducted on the En-wiki mailing list and on extremely abusive IRC channels. Criticisms offered in the name space of Wikipedia are deleted and their authors banned. Yet when criticisms are taken outside Wikipedia, critics are scorned for not coming to the "open" encyclopedia with their criticism. If Mr. Wales would like to critique "extremely inflammatory" headlines that "give the wrong idea" he need look no further than his own foundation's psuedo-news-publication, "The Signpost."

  62. Cuba Used to have ONE 56K connection :) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yep.. you read that correctly...

    The entire country of Cuba (small island as it is)
    used to share a single 56K connection to the internet.

    Not sure what speeds they have now but from this article here
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/01/21/cuba.i nternet.reut/
    it looks like things haven't changed much *sigh*

  63. unintended consequence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >>unintended consequence of stopping Qatarese from editing the wiki

    Actually, this ban will be a good thing. Wiki entries from Qutaris will no longer read: "Everything you need to know is found in the Koran. All knowledge comes from Mohammed."

    (For those who would tag this "flamebait", study up on Qutar and UAE Madrassas first.)

  64. Slashdot blocks all of Kuwait by strikethree · · Score: 1

    The problem is that these countries (Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, etc) all censor the net to some extent or another and therefore, their entire population appears to use one IP address. If I do not have a cookie already set, I can not log in to Slashdot from several different countries.

    Since at least one person in any given population is going to be a real jerk, most of these countries are going to find themselves as second class net participants. The only way to avoid this is for each site to accept only individual sign-up accounts and prohibit anonymous posting.

    strike

    --
    "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    1. Re:Slashdot blocks all of Kuwait by jamie · · Score: 1

      Um, we do? Please email us, or have someone email us, if there's an entire country that Slashdot is blocking in some way. I think we provide a contact email address on all our "you've been blocked" messages, but just in case you didn't see one, try pater@slashdot.org. Let us know what the IP is and if there's been abuse, we'll handle it, well, pretty much the way Wikipedia did :)

      As for not being able to log in, I think that might be something about your ISP. We block anonymous contributions from an IP number by setting it to 'nopost' or 'nopostanon'. The only place our login.pl code checks that is if you try to mail a password to someone (possibly yourself). We disallow that from nopost-blocked IPs, because it could be used for anonymous harrassment of our users.

      So unless an IP number has been completely banned from Slashdot (no access to any pages, whether you're logged-in or not), you should be able to create an account and log in from it, as far as I know.

  65. Qatar and many other networks segments by SteveTinksy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A group of Wikipedians has been trying to raise awareness about RFC 1918 private networks among admins and other sysops at Wikipedia. The Qatar issue is just the latest. T-Mobile Hotspots is another big example of these networks. A small group of administrators is trying to hide this information from other admins and even spread disinformation about the issue. You can read user Dmcdevit spreading some crazy disinformation about private networks in this thread. Another admin associated with Dmcdevit, Naconkantari, has been edit warring on the main WikiMedia site over a simple proposal to improve WikiMedia to deal more favorably with these networks. That edit war has gone on for weeks over a simple proposal on the Babel page. I have no idea why anyone would want to tighten a wiki to keep out users of large private networks, but there you have the edit histories on Wikipedia and Wikimedia. Something is afoot.

    1. Re:Qatar and many other networks segments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me add that there seems to be "something to look at" despite what the user Jimbo Wales is saying. It would not be odd for an administrator to make a mistake and block a significant IP address (which may be what happened). Howevver there is clearly a systematic attempt to try to keep such mistakes happening. The block was adjusted only after this artilce aired here at slashdot. T-Mobile hotspot addresses contineu to be blocked.

      And may readers seem to think this is because of masssive spam attacks or due to misguided censorship on the part of the government of Qatar. There's no evidence to support those either. Some at Wikipedia -- a minority of admins -- simply don't support the wiki concept.

  66. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by jsoderba · · Score: 1

    What makes you think a less restrictive system would be worth the effort to Wikipedia? There are many, many thousands of casual contributors, but only a fairly small number of people with enough interest and ability to serve as moderators. Your individual contribution is insignificant to the project as a whole.

    I'm not trying to discourage anyone from editing Wiki. Your contribution is still significant to the people reading it. Just don't expect the project to bend over backwards for you.

  67. Meta-correction by Kizor · · Score: 1

    The Administrators noticeboard (search for "Qatar") specifies that the ban on creating accounts is an optional part of an IP block, and that it initially came with this one as default, and was removed once the scope of the block was realized.

    The noticeboard also states, repeatedly, that the block had nothing to do with censorship or antipathy towards Qatar. It was result of normal vandal-fighting while not knowing the specific circumstances of this particular instance at the time. But where's the fun of that?

  68. Re:Wikipedia also blocks a Canadian School Distric by Kizor · · Score: 1

    Or you could always find the "E-mail this user" link that's in plain sight on the user page of anyone who's enabled this option. It seems very popular. I'd guess that a not insignificant part of the admins have.

  69. Wikipedia response by nickv111 · · Score: 1

    According to the Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:82.148.97. 69), this is a misunderstanding. I didn't figure I would be the first to post on this, but here goes. The article says, "If you came here from a news headline saying that Wikipedia has banned all of Qatar, please pop right back over there and post in the comments that the story is not true. This IP number was temporarily blocked for less than 12 hours, and a block of an entire nation would go absolutely against Wikipedia policy. In the English Wikipedia, such an action would require approval of at a minimum the English Arbitration Committee and/or me personally, and would never ever be undertaken lightly, nor without extensive attempts at direct negotiation with the ISP and/or nation in question." Go to the updated site, and it explains it all. I really was doubtful that Wikipedia would indefinitely ban an entire country anyway. Certainly, Wikipedia does not unilaterally censor an entire country.

  70. Re: FreedomFriesRecipe by Slugster · · Score: 1

    In one of William Poundstone's Big Secrets books, he notes in a chapter on fast-food that the CEO of a major US chain (Burger King, IIRC) once said in an interview that the "secret" to their fries was that after the potatoes were cut, they were sprayed with a sugar-water solution before freezing.

    In the fryer the sugar quickly carmelizes and turns crisp, while the inside is still left soft and white. This CEO said he did not know for certain that every other fast-food chain did it that way, but that was the only way they'd ever found that worked right.
    ~

  71. In soviet Qatar... by rumplet · · Score: 1

    ...wikipedia censors you!

  72. Re:Wikipedia response: that's a nice sentiment but by SteveTinksy · · Score: 1

    They did ban the country of Qatar without the approval of any committe or the director of the Foundation. What's more Wikipedia has a group of administrators who work to make sure the technology behind such a national block is poorly understood by other administrators. So they may protest innocence, but there's something sinister going on there at Wikipedia (despite what their press release may say).

  73. So you propose... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    !notuae ?

  74. Additional, concerning al-Jazeera: by meringuoid · · Score: 1
    This leads to "news" organizations such as al-jazeera arising, and "reporting" bile-laden "stories" as "independent reporting". This "reporting" seems to follow the government line in most cases, and terrorists lines for the rest of the cases.

    According to the IPI,

    Al Jazeera's critical coverage has angered some Arab leaders. In Algeria, Iran, Tunisia and Saudi Arabia, reporters were refused accreditation and bureaus' were denied permission to open this year.

    They're nice about Qatar - self-censorship again, even in the absence of official coercion - but they're certainly not a mere propaganda mouthpiece. Indeed, I'd say that any channel which is denounced angrily by both the Americans and the Iranians must be doing something right - in the same way that the writers of Spitting Image used to feel proud of getting complaints of bias from all the parties :-)

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  75. I can hear it now... Jihad! by nortcele · · Score: 1

    They'll be strapping on laptops with Sony batteries and heading for the Wikipedia office. p.s. It's a joke, but if you must mod me flamebait... go ahead.

  76. Re:This story is completely false. In resply to ja by SteveTinksy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You can view the block log (though the block log descritpison do not always accurately describe the type of block. You can see the contribution history for these anonymous editors. From a cursory glance at this information, it's hard to imagine an admin would find a one month block justifiable (even if the admin did not know it was an entire country). One month definitely looks like an over-reaction.

    However, we've seen more and more problems with admins lately on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is no longer relying on volunteers, but more and more relying on paid staff, working in shifts aroudn the clock. Often times these admins show no interest in building an encyclopedia, but do want to excercise their uninformed editorial slant whenever possible. Consequently, we have admins blocking valuable editors because they hold the wrong point-of-view (i.e., not the point-of -view of the admin).. There are still many volunteers working on Wikipedia, but things don't work as smoothly as they used to.

    The issue of proxy servers is also just per speculation. The term open proxy is bandied about among Wikipedia admins as if it's some sort of evil. I'm not saying there aren't problems with proxy servers, but whenever there's a problem they cry "open proxy server", whether they have any evidence of that or not. Clearly, there's no information that anyone has presented that shows us that Qatar has an open proxy server. We don't even know if they use a proxy server at all. However, from what we're hearing it looks like Qtel uses an RFC 1918 private network to conserve IP addresses. This is a very common internet standard. It's something admins on any wiki should be aware of (they're not on wikipedia). And it's something to be careful about when encountering very large private networks (like the nation of Qatar).. Wikipedia administrators seem very resistant to learning about internet technology. They just react in knee-jerk fashion to any threat (no matter how small). I think the wiki software and the wiki concept are both good ideas. Unfortunately Wikimedia and it's related projects have lost sight of that project.

  77. Because... by Rix · · Score: 1

    I'm smarter than you are.

  78. Re:This story is completely false. In resply to ja by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

    Out of interest, have you checked your facts? There are certainly a number of paid employees (I think it's about 4 or 5). There are no paid administrators, and there are over 500 of them on the site last I checked. I should point out that not all administrators know (or indeed should know) about subnetting or CIDR, and mistakes can be made.

    As Jimbo said, move along here, nothing to be seen.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  79. Re:This story is DEFINITELY NOT false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In reply to ta bu shi da yu:
    "Out of interest, have you checked your facts?"

    Yes I have definitely checked my facts.

    "There are certainly a number of paid employees (I think it's about 4 or 5)."

    You're confusing this with the WikiMedia foundation that has only a few employees. However, another agency employs dozens of paid administrators to work shifts around the clock on the Wikipedia and the Wikimedia site.

    "There are no paid administrators, and there are over 500 of them on the site last I checked."

    No, there are over 1,000 administrators, though many are inactive. Many may indeed be volunteers, however most active ones are paid. If you're a volunteer administrator you may have been unaware that others are paid, but they are.

    "I should point out that not all administrators know (or indeed should know) about subnetting or CIDR, and mistakes can be made."

    It's worst than that. Many administrators learn a little bit about networking technologies that just gets passed amongst themselves. If someone in these threads is talking about open proxies in referring to what's clearly Qatar's RFC 1918 private network, you can bet they are an administrator from Wikipedia simply regurgitating what they've heard from fellow administrators. Some of these administrators actively try to keep information about network technology from other administrators. Again check out the bizarre edit war (around the last week of 2006 first week of 2007) at the foundation site that could have prevented this Qatar mistake. Also see the disinformation put out by Dmcdevit on the Administrators noticeboard. I have no idea what's behind that behavior, but that's what's going on.

  80. Re:Meta-correction (not much of a correction) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think the article ever implied this was malicious or trying to censor Qatar. However, this is not simply an innocent mistake either. This administrator likely made a mistake, but there has been an asserted effort to spread disinformation about internet technologies among administrators so that such a mistake is possible. For example you can see Dmcdevit spreading disinformation about open proxy servers in this thread. Most administrators talk about everything in terms of "open proxy servers" and shared IPs without understanding that a single shared IP can be the public IP for an entire private IP network of millions of IPs. There's no sense among administrators that the scale of a shared IP can be different and that the difference matters when deciding to block. Even before the Qatar mishap Wikipedia editors were trying to raise the issue on the Wikimedia site in relation to T-Mobile's large RFC 1918 private network. Instead of simply accepting the advice a bizarre edit war ensued (from the last week of 2006 through the first week of 2007). These things suggest that something strange is going on at Wikipedia/Wikimedia that cannot be explained by simply saying: "woops, we made a mistake."

  81. Re:This story is DEFINITELY NOT false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure I'm referring to the same payroll as the above commentator mentions, but widespread speculation and some investigation reveals Wikipedia is part of a US security community effort to acheive total information control. The concerns are fueled by official statements from military sources, including the US Air Force's most recent advertising campaign, that they intend to dominate distribution of online information (control space and cyberspace, as the Air Force suggests). Other concerns are based on investigation of pseudonymic admins who sometimes edit in excess of 24 hours without break. One such administrator, who remains heavily involved in political articles, was found to have been a Cambridge student at the time of the Pam Am flight 103 crash who was later fired by a news agency for misdirecting the news agency's investigation on behalf of MI5.

    I generalize all of the sordid details here. Much of this information eventually floats up to threads of a Web site marginally critical of Wikipedia, www.wikipediareview.com. Beware -- a few of the regulars on that site flaunt the fact that they are also extremely active Wikipedia leaders, yet all the while deny who they are. One has repeatedly tried to gain access to w..r.com's exclusive administrative discussions and visitor logs, entering several hundred trivial comments that usually do little to raise doubt about other critics of Wikipedia, and often praise the pedi's policies. He edits Wikipedia Review from an IP assigned to a corporation known to contract wiht the US government to conduct "extraordinary renditions" to countries that practice torture.

  82. Re:This story is DEFINITELY NOT false. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ggg... you.... why... don't you mean to say "trivial comments that do little but raise doubts about sincere critics of Wikipedia"?