Slashdot Mirror
DoD Warez Leader Faces 10 Years in Jail
An anonymous reader writes "After spending nearly 3 years in a detention center fighting his extradition from Australia, a leader of notorious warez group 'DrinkorDie' was yesterday arraigned before a U.S. District Court to face charges of conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and one count of actual criminal copyright infringement. If found guilty he faces 10 years in jail & a $500,000 fine."
to face charges of conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and one count of actual criminal copyright infringement. If found guilty he faces 10 years in jail & a $500,000 fine.
Meanwhile, a drunk driver who kills someone can get off scott free, with no jail time at all. Sweet.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Run everyone! They'll come for you no matter which country you're trying to live in... totally disregarding the sovereignty of your own countries laws.
Why is this person being tried in the US? He's a British citizen living in Australia, what does this have to do with the US?
I'm going to transform myself into a mighty hawk. Either that or I'll just go and work at Dixons, haven't decided yet.
Is a man's freedom itself really only of equivalent value to the artificially created rights in a creative work?
It's time that copyright infringement, and all intellectual property offences, returned to the purely civil arena. Pecuniary penalties are one thing: bankrupt them with fines and damages, by all means. To do so is consistent with the justifications for having intellectual property rights in the first place, which are either related to innovation, commerce, or artistic integrity depending on where you come from historically.
But no-one should be imprisoned for copying information.
Read Pynchon.
IMHO this kind of crimes shouldn't be punishable by imprisonment... but I guess indenture isn't such a hot alternative either. Anyway, 10 years for replicating electrical signals in a magnetic medium (nit pickers go away!)... basically he "stole" an idea, hot air. He *should* be punished for breaking the law, but wasn't there something against disproportionate punishment in western codes?
+Raider of the lost BBS
If he killed somebody he'd have been out already.
For many in the warez scene and beyond, this is how DoD will be remembered. Yes, I know this doesn't absolve them of their sins... well, I could envision someone making a reasonable argument about how the world isn't on a level playing field and these guys were helping to level things for those that couldn't afford to be recognized... but I digress. I just thought it was worth recognizing that there is something to be said about these characters that isn't completely negative.
Yes except all the people from the groups that've been convicted and gone to prison go to Minimum Security federal prison. In short they can walk off the prison property (in other words, not ass pounding prison) if they like but they automatically get 5 years tacked on to their sentence. That part I know for sure. I'd assume they then get moved up to a stricter prison if they do do that, but that I part I'm only speculating on.
It seems obvious, then, that the jury trying this case should use one of the rarely-used options available to them: Jury nullification.
In this case, it seems that the jury would have to consider the case as a whole - not merely the facts presented by the prosecution, not merely the letter of the law. They must consider this man's motives, and the motives of the government that is bringing about this case. Is the government being driven by a corporation known for its bullying thuggishness and its lawsuit-happy executives? Is copyright law fundamentally wrong? I look forward to this jury's answer to these questions and I hope that it is the answer I expect from conscionable human beings.
Hard work pays off tomorrow, but procrastination pays off NOW!
but from TFA... his cohorts were sentenced to 46 and 33 months respectively ...... he has apparently spent 3yrs in a detention facility (36mos) and now could get up to 10yrs...(in theory).
one might think that it would have been better to just waive extradition and come fight his case here....3yrs ago...cause he'd be about out by now... even if he was convicted. =p (based on the other sentences)
I'm glad for my part that I don't like people enough to be a "robinhood" cause I'm not going to jail for a bunch of poor bastards that can't buy software...but can mysteriously afford shinny new PCs to run softwarzes on???
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
I'm more concerned that ONE COUNT of copyright infringement plus conspiracy to commit same can get you more time in prison than if you'd committed any number of violent crimes, up to and including some instances of first degree murder...
I'm sure the US is more than happy to extend the same courtesy to Italy, right?
Right?
Well, when you take into consideration that you're also more likely to be raped in prison than you would be had you murdered someone, then, uhhh, shit that sucks, that guy better kill someone fast.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
It almost seems like intellectual property is valued far more highly than human life. I don't think that's right, in a moral sense.
Considering that these people are really no threat to society at all why waste their time and taxpayers money (in two countries in this case) locking them up in the first place? It really should be a civil matter - fines would still hurt even if you have no money and get it garnished out of future earnings.
You also liken it to 'stealing' or vandalism, but I don't think that's right. Those crimes have victims who suffer directly, and more importantly, are deprived of the enjoyment of their property in respect of any possible use of it, whether in relation to the person committing the offence or any other person. If I smash your shop window, your shop is closed to me and to anyone else who might have come in that day. Copyright infringement is fundamentally different in that it deprives the copyright holder only of enjoyment of their property insofar as the infringement leads someone who would have paid to use the copyright to use an infringing copy free of charge. But it does not prevent the copyright holder from selling licenses to other potential users of their work. In other words, the effect of the 'crime' is heavily diluted, and there is no direct deprivation of enjoyment.
Society has a way of dealing with these types of 'crimes', in which an individual's behaviour is detrimental but only in a very diluted way. Parking fines come to mind. Speeding fines. Fines for failing to pay car registration. Civil offences, in other words.
I prefer to think of copyright as a mandatory, many-to-one contractual arrangement. If I create something original and subject to copyright, you and the rest of the world has an automatic contract not to exploit it in certain ways without my consent, and that contract expires after a certain amount of time (about 20000 years thanks to Disney and co). If you breach the contract, I think I should be able to pursue you on a civil law basis, but I do not think the cops should be throwing you in prison.
Read Pynchon.
What annoys me the most about this is that Australia has perfectly good laws under which to charge him. Why aren't they good enough?
NO TIME??? Jeeze, he already spent 3 Years locked up in Australia without being convicted! Now he has to defend stateside. All for something where no profit was made and no one was physically injured. Armed robbery has less a penalty. Fucked up legal system here (stateside).
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Issues of copyright in regard to software infringe on the issues of free speech. Yes, I said that. If someone were to decry the evils of BMW, or publish how to make them more gas efficient there would be no foul. When it comes to copyright, there seems to be no justice.
Even if a person is guilty of helping people download movies for free, they should not be punished for the following reasons:
1 - you cannot help someone break the law if the act is committed without your presence.
2 - Telling someone how to break the law is not an illegal act.
3 - Even if you send them the file sharing program, you did not commit the act.
4 - If you complain to the police that someone stole your paper bag of money containing $50,000 dollars that you left on some street corner, they will laugh at you and tell you that you are stupid.
5 - Theft of copyright is not possible, the premise is theft of 'presumed' revenues. There is no proof that any 'illegal' activity caused known damage to revenues in a quantitative way.
6 - Current legislation doesn't provide protection or compensation for all copyright holders, only the very few and very rich corporations with copyrights. The law is not being applied equally.
7 - The reasonable doubt that 'fair use' implies means that most copyright litigation is of questionable nature to start with.
8 - There is NO proof that pirated copyright materials deprive the artist of what they would have received anyway.
9 - The US entertainment industry is not the lawmaking body for ALL of the world. Resist now.
10 - Punishing hackers does not protect the children, nor does it stop terrorism.
11 - Copyright infringement is not theft, but copyright infringement for profit is. See number 5.
12 - Australia is not a US state, nor is any other sovereign country. Any country that gives up sovereignty to the US over copyrights is seriously sucking ass...
13 - you make up your own for this one
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
It "rendites"
Rendition:-)
Laugh.. it's funny...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
I agree with you on the crime he has committed and the punishment he has recieved.
But explain to me how and why corporates like Sony, BMI, etc., who distributed Root Kits, compromised thousands of computers' security, and illegally hacked into my property (my computer is my property) can be let off with just a free coupon and a "sincere" apology?
Should their board, CEO, etc, not be jailed under hacking laws?
If you can explain to me why RIAA member companies can always get off, while the giga-uploader gets "bubba" in jail for SAME crimes, i can explain why slashdot thinks this way?
Until then, Ciao
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
Its a legal system, not a "justice" system. Justice has nothing to do with the law.
i.e. Government can decide that we all should or shouldnt do something, but that doesnt make it right. --> insert example of your choice
Of course. We have a God given right to make a profit. Salaries are paid from profits. Think of all the little children who went hungry because this jackass disrupted our profits.
Now think of the drunken driver incident. The undertakers have to make a profit too. The drunken driver facilitated undertaker profits and that is an attenuating circumstance.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
A) He was in Australia, where what he did wasn't a crime at the time. How can you be tried for an act that isn't a crime in the country you reside?
B) Unless you suppose that US law should apply to the whole world. Exactly when did the US conquer all of Earth, pray tell?
Your argument is utterly off topic because it presumes to judge this situation based on US law when US law has no legitimate standing here at all. There was no reason to extradite this guy - he committed no crime. For what he did to be a crime it would have to be a violation of the law of the land he lived in. Is any of this, like, getting through to you???
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
I agree. Prisons is an option that needs to be reserved for criminals who are a significant threat to society. I'm sick of seeing our hard earned tax money going to incarcerate non-violent offenders. Here in the US, in particular, we have gone absolutely overboard using prisons to deal with issues such as illicit drug use. There are other forms of punishment (community service, fines, restitution) and rehabilitation (counseling, education, medical treatment) that cost less, result in a productive punishment/rehabilitation, and can actually move to improve an individual's ability to function in society.
Anyone else find it funny that a criminal is being extradited from Australia? Didn't we send those Darn convicts there in the first place?
I make my living writing software, and I'm definitely against copyright infringement. I am, however, pragmatic: these guys weren't costing the economy nearly what the BSA claims they were, and the policies we have in place to prevent these crimes are clearly unreasonable and ineffective. We might as well burn their families at the stake while we're at it--just for some extra pointless theatrics. While we're in the business of hurting people just for the sake of ineffective public spectacle, why not go hog wild?
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
You're absolutely right. If somebody committed a crime which wasn't violent, why the heck should we put him in a prison? Give him a fine so big he will never even think about doing anything stupid. Never. The same about drug USERS. Every time they catch them they should give them a fine. If they cannot/want to pay put them in a prison and do a cold turkey. That should get them time to think.
"an experienced, industrious, ambitious, and often, quite often, picturesque liar" - Mark Twain
If everyone who got warez from DoD gave $1 for every $1000 "worth" of warez they downloaded, he could probably afford every lawyer that anyone's ever heard of.
The DoD network primarily consisted of university undergraduates, but was supported by software company employees, who would leak copies of software and other digital media. DoD also received such files indirectly, from other networks.
That line kind of caught me off guard, considering how I always hear them whining about how piracy is stealing the bread out of the mouths of their starving children...
I can't tell what level of fines you meant in your post so let me caution that dispossessing them of all future earnings would probably have a worse effect on society than just sending them to prison for ten years. There is a large difference between a hefty fine and a fine that one could never possibly pay. We need to be careful not to fall into the same old trap of cruel punishment that doesn't help reform the criminal.
Interestingly, one of the American soldier who gang raped a 14 year old girl, killed both her parents and sister, then shot her in the face, and set her on fire gets to get out prison in 10 years.
Copyright is now all about protecting the interests of Sony and other mega-corporations. It has ZERO to do with "the public interest" which is NOT served by 95-year copyright terms. Do the corporate-whores go to jail when they steal from us and the authors? No they do not.
He has been in detention for 3 years? If convicted would he get credit for the time he has already spent in an Australia detention center? If so, do the same rules apply for fines as they do here in the US? For those that don't know you get credit for ~50 per day while incarcerated. If so, then he has already earned over $50,000 towards his fine. If they do take in account the time served in Australia I wouldn't be surprised if sentenced, even the maximum amount, that he would not get off for time served.
If I were him I would discuss this with my lawyer and then in turn with the district attorney to negotiate a Plea bargain to enter a plea of nolo contendere, saving the court the time and expense of a lengthy trial, in return for a sentence of time served and a few years of unadjudicated probation.
I have seen people get less for worse. I don't see why the taxpayers should have to pay to hold someone like this when they obviously present no danger to society.
Nick Powers
Encryption: I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to encrypt it...
DoD is part of the internet legacy, and DoD served a cause that is one of the large reasons why FSF and OSS have been able to find breathing space in the minds of many. I don't say that many of the actions were not illegal, but I do say that these actions have contributed to a better educated and most of all much more justified software/service ecosystem.
I think the fines and the punishments are seriously out of touch with what real crime is, where people get hurt or violated.
With great power comes great electricity bills.
"What are you in for?"
"I raped my grandmother, bludgeoned her to death and ate the corpse. You?"
"I gave some software away."
I agree. Prisons is an option that needs to be reserved for criminals who are a significant threat to society
You know what I find sad about USA prisons? It is that the fact that you go to prison is that the government wants to Lock you up to punish you for your crime and let you rot and be raped and god knows what. I have just read a report (from a digg.com link no less) about the number of male to male rapes on USA prisons. Thinking about this case in particular (the DoD guy), today he is an intelligent man with computer knowledge and some pretty good understanding of technology (maybe even cracking). If the guy gets over the USA prison, he will be so fucked up (the USA system will destroy his life) that when he gets out (if he does it) he might be an addict, killer, and a bunch of other more nasty things.
That is quite sad. Just to put a bit of contrast, in my country, "prisons" are not called "prisons", and their main focus is not just on locking out "bad guys", a prision is usually called CERESO (social readaptation centre) or CEFERESO (social federal readaptation centre) which aim to re adapt the "bad guys" in order to make them *useful* to the society.
I think that is one of the reason why in USA the death penalty is liked, because for them, bad people must be punished, they do not like to see the root of the problem (if someone steals food from others it means he was HUNGRY... no the solution is not to lock the thief but to see WHY was he hungry, maybe more jobs?). But that is the *normal* thinking of the USA government, as they proceed similarly with Terrorism (instead of thinking WHY does the "terrorists" hate us?) they just want to bomb the fuck out of them. Blah!
Of course, you might argue that even my "happy happy" country with their "CERESOs"is not really happy... fuck no, we are very fucked up with corruption and all the same if not more violent crimes than USA (I am talking about your south neighbors), but hell, one of the things I have learnt is that the first step to fix ones problems is to acknowledge you have that problem and then to attack the ROOT. Not the symptoms.
I feel pity for this guy, as I felt pity for the British guy who hacked the CIA and was extradited to the USA. Heck, they should jail them *in* their country. And you people from the USA what the fuck, wake up!. It will be so cool to see in ten years, when half of the world is dead and the other is in USA "prisons" because of your stupid fears.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
When reading the headline the first time, I thought the Department of Defense had a warez server. (For playing Age of Empires during boring Pentagon meetings or something.)
From the US to the world: OBEY.
I'll never understand how "theft" of non-physical property with no proveable financial loss can be a crime.
Civil, sure. Crime? No.
He was sentenced to 100 years, but will be eligible for parole in 10 in exchange for his testimony against the other 3 soldiers charged.
I don't know if there were attenuating circumstances (can't think of one for rape and killing for cover up), but they should all be left to rot in jail.
No sig
So, what you are in essence saying, since it's not caught much, penalties should be harsher? Speeding is also very hard to police, requires a lot of setup, and isn't that effective, only a minute fraction get caught. Would death penalty be the correct punishment then? A lot more people are speeding, compared to the amount of people cracking software, site opping or trading.
I have a brother-in-law who spent a couple of years in a prison for transporting drugs across state lines. They might as well have dispossessed him of all future earnings as almost nobody will hire people who spent time in prison. He's really had a hard time getting any earnings in the 7 or so years since being out. He had no problem getting work before that. I've heard that others have similar trouble. It seems that whether they just attach all future earnings or lock you up to "do time", you lose most of your earnings potential either way.
"would just love to see a program that I wrote appear on warez sites. Means that people actually find it usefull. Besides, there is usually only a black market for an item that is popular in the first place. Having my sofware released in the warez scene would be a compliment to me..."
You've encapsulated the reason why many people (particularly young people) don't see the harm in piracy... the thought process is "If I had created something that was in high demand, I would give it away for free."
If you're genuine, I suggest that you look into donating time into helping develop open source software. The FOSS industry needs more people like you who are willing to invest significant effort into creating work that's highly useful for many people, and who only want the "compliment" of seeing their work distributed, rather than financial compensation.
I should point out that several OSS luminaries (Larry Wall comes to mind) have asked that the motivations behind FOSS not be used to justify piracy... ie. that we don't use the thought process that just because our financial situation and free time allow us to work for free, we have the moral right to acquire others' work for free.
Sitting in my day care, the art is decopainted.
I'd like to remind you that we're dealing with a *pirate*, here. These are the same people who fire their weapons on our ships at sea, kill our children, rape our women, and in this particular case, they were forcing people to either "drink or die".
Remember, kids: There is no crime more serious than copyright infringement. When you infringe copyright, you are possibly stealing from some of the richest organisations in the world. By definition, nothing could be more immoral.
Money and business has a history of getting preferential treatment in courts. And the structure of a representative democracy leaves little choice but to make tough laws for those with the most resources to lobby.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
bah.. what do u do when you cant fix some issue with a pc.. you tear it down and rebuild it from scratch (sometimes)
This country is getting to be the same way. We are wrapped up in so much nonsense that nothing gets done correctly.. It's pathetic that rapists do less time than some burnout hippy caught with some Urbs. Or in this case somebody busted with ONE COUNT of copyright infringement. The greed is out of control & needs to be reined in. *blech reficere.. circuitionis.. reficio..
Kill your TV
Let's consider two hypothetical scenarios:
1) A mugger snatches a purse from a women. In the process she is knocked down and her wrist is broken.
2) A Micheal Ley type is convicted of funneling off for himself, the pensions of 5,000 people.
You would put the first in jail, while letting the second off with only a fine, even though the largest harm to society is obviously from number 2. Jail violent criminals, yes. But I don't see the justification for making jails exclusively for them. White collar crimes can, and often do, surpass the amount of damage caused by more visceral crimes.
In the cases above, and given only one space/bed left in prison, I would argue giving it to #2.
damaged by dogma