Novell/Linux Parody on Apple's Mac vs PC Ads

xtaski writes "Wired's 'Cult of Mac' blog offers up video of Novell's spin on the Apple Mac vs. PC ads. The twist: a young lady portraying that winsome third party, Linux. There are two ads available for perusal, and the second is definitely the better of the two."

Comments

How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Conveniently located on Novell.com instead of some crappy Flash video. Now available in MPEG and Ogg!

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[jZnat]

I like the third one best because it actually implies something useful to people about Linux: it has what you want on PCs and Macs (even games via Wine and Cedega, but they don't mention that).

Now I know someone's going to say "but Linux doesn't have $x, and $y is a crappy replacement that doesn't support $z", but take a look at the Mac vs. PC commercials that Apple made; they don't mention crap like that either. The point of the ads are to get "Joe Sixpack" to use it.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[i_should_be_working]

I also like how it's pointing out that it doesn't matter what type of computer you have. You can run Linux now. I guess many people are used to the idea of having to buy a new computer to change operating system.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[supremebob]

Oddly enough, the "Will It Blend" video for SuSE has disappeared from the site. That's a bummer, since it was the best video clip from BrainShare 2007! You can still find it out on YouTube, fortunately.... There is a great one-liner about end users in there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NeR2LyILWQ

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[billsoxs]

You failed to point out in the ads that Linux is a woman - another way to get joe-6-pack. (With your Sig!)

More importantly - and much to my surprise - Now I find out that all you slashdotters HAVE BEEN with a woman...

(Yes I know some Slashdotters ARE women.)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[kclittle]

And most of the Slashdotters who ARE women HAVE BEEN with womem... 'da truth!

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[johncadengo]

I like the third one best

I agree. The third one is the only one that actually attempts to convince you that you should actually use Linux. The first simply let's us know it exists (and anyone actually interested in watching these spoofs would know). The second let's us know that it keeps up to date. But its analogy is not well-thought out, I mean, mac looks way nicer than they show it to be. And Linux, well, I dunno how the analogy is supposed to fit into how linux looks. Reality is much closer to Linux having mismatched colored socks, pants from goodwill, and a knock-off designer purse made in China (really, made in China). Not because it doesn't look nice and not because it's knockoff (no matter how well imitated, where is Linux innovation in GUI?), but because of how its put together. And then there are always people competing, within Linux, for your time (Gnome vs. Kde, etc). Instead of a person out of nowhere handing you a nice nifty new jacket, it would probably be a few people handing you nice jackets, all for free of course, and letting you put what in the closet you wish and wear what when you want.

But the third commercial has no odd-fitting analogies. It's plain and simple: people use Linux, and although not everyone tries to hide it, many would want to use Linux if they only could.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[topham]

The choice of a woman to represent Linux is perfect, and the reference to the many possible outfits (think X11 widget crap) is perfect.

indecision was spot on.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[AJWM]

Scroll down and check out the "adspoofs" video from Brainshare 2003. They're a hoot -- especially the "instant message" one. Clickies: MPG or OGG.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Brandybuck]

I am amazed that they actually had videos usable in open source players. It seems like everyone else in the Linux world has jumped on the proprietary Flash bandwagon.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[ArcherB]

But its analogy is not well-thought out, I mean, mac looks way nicer than they show it to be. And Linux, well, I dunno how the analogy is supposed to fit into how linux looks. Reality is much closer to Linux having mismatched colored socks, pants from goodwill, and a knock-off designer purse made in China (really, made in China). Not because it doesn't look nice and not because it's knockoff (no matter how well imitated, where is Linux innovation in GUI?), but because of how its put together. And then there are always people competing, within Linux, for your time (Gnome vs. Kde, etc). Instead of a person out of nowhere handing you a nice nifty new jacket, it would probably be a few people handing you nice jackets, all for free of course, and letting you put what in the closet you wish and wear what when you want.

I agree. I think it would have been much better if she had an entire rack of clothes to put on. Maybe hold up a leopard print jacket and say "KDE" and then a black jacket and say "or Gnome?". Then say, "It doesn't matter, I can do all my stuff with either look." At the end, she could pick up a purse or other accessory and say, "Oooh, Karamba!"

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[tbo]

I also like how it's pointing out that it doesn't matter what type of computer you have. You can run Linux now. I guess many people are used to the idea of having to buy a new computer to change operating system.

It's understandable that anyone might prefer Linux to Windows. That said, many people are probably wondering, "If you have a Mac, why would you install Linux* on it?" This is a good question; pretty much any Linux program for which source is available can be recompiled for OS X. If it's command-line, no problem. If it's X11-based, just fire up Apple's free X11. The only snags are with binary-only software, but it's rare that you'd actually need to use a binary-only Linux app for which there's no Mac-native equivalent, and much more likely that you'd encounter the opposite situation.

I've actually installed Linux on a Mac on multiple occasions (starting with kernel 2.2.x on an original iMac, which was about the first time it was really possible), so I will try to enumerate the reasons:

0) Because you can.
1) For fun--you enjoy tinkering with things.
2) To learn about Linux.
3) To develop Linux-specific software, such as Linux kernel drivers.
4) Ideological reasons relating to Free Software--you refuse to run an OS where a portion of the code is non-Free (in which case you'd better be using Debian).
5) Because you care about performance in a particular niche where Linux has substantial real-world performance benefits over OS X.
6) You're so used to Linux's user interface that it would be too difficult for you to switch.
7) You actually think Linux's user interface is nicer than OS X (since they both offer the same choice of shells, this comes down to GUI preference).

I really can't think of any other reasons that make any sense--if you can, please reply and elaborate. Now, to the analysis.

It's pretty clear that the reasons given above are valid only for computer geeks. Normal people don't care about (0 - 5), (6) is obviously not applicable, and I have yet to meet a reasonable person who claims (7) holds true for "average" users. There's nothing wrong with this--being better than Windows for a lower price is a big accomplishment--but why imply that Linux is something it's not?

Linux is a great OS for many people whose alternative is Windows, and for geeks. It's not a good replacement for Mac OS X.

As an alternative ad that plays on the same themes, have PC as a guy, and have him break up with his girlfriend Vista because she's too demanding. PC sees Mac OS X (woman), and tries to hit on her, but is shot down because he's "not her type" and she "doesn't think they'd be compatible". Linux walks in, and she and PC hit it off. This would communicate that you can use your existing PC hardware to run Linux but not Mac OS X.

* I use Linux in the sense that everybody except Richard M Stallman uses--I mean the entire OS, in a generic sense that does not specify a particular distribution, rather than just the kernel.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

For Joe SixPack on linux, they need the AFLAC duck running around screaming RTFM!!! RTFM!!! strace!

BTW, the Novell commercials were "cute". How about a room full of linux mascots, that would be fun. Free Beer and Free Code :-)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Nikker]

At the end of the day your still only wearing one jacket. If you were introducing yourself to strangers for a presentation would you start with, "Hello! My name is John Smith, my address is $Address, my dogs name is ..., etc.

Or would you say "Hello my name is John Smith!"?

In the end you have to let the users decide what path they want to take, Linux is your introduction it is the users that create your presentation.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

I'm with #7. I love GNOME. The Mac UI confuses me. If I'm working inside a window near the bottom of my screen, it is a waste to move the mouse all the way to the top. Why can't I have my menus be near where I'm working? And why does that window that pops up have 3 panes when you're just trying to open an app? Shouldn't the app be in the menu instead of in some folder hidden somewhere?I don't get it. GNOME puts the programs in categories by you use it for and its in the menu, not opening up extra windows to get to a launcher. It's much easier to me. My very-non-geeky sister is confused by Macs too, but she asked for Linux after using my laptop.

The only way I'll use a Mac without confusing the heck out of myself is in the shell, and that requires first confusing myself by hunting through the GUI going "bash, bash, where's bash? need bash...bash....where is it...oh, bash!" And Macs need to get right-click.

Funny thing about my dislike of the Mac UI is that I started out on an Apple ][

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

>Now I know someone's going to say "but Linux doesn't have $x, and $y is a crappy replacement that doesn't support $z", but take a look at the Mac vs. PC commercials that Apple made; they don't mention crap like that either. The point of the ads are to get "Joe Sixpack" to use it.

Yea, the point isn't to give well rounded information, it is to trick the consumer into using your product.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[nog_lorp]

Why doesn't anyone think of Bob SixPack? Will Bob forever live in the shadow of his brother?

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Nah I've only dated boys. Yes, I'm calling the man who is twelve years older than me a "boy" because he generally acts like one.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[tbo]

I'm with #7. I love GNOME. The Mac UI confuses me.

OK, before I go further--do you consider yourself an average user, or a nerd/geek/power user? If the latter, you're not contradicting my argument, and may in fact be demonstrating point (6) to some degree. If the former--you consider yourself an "average" user--then you are probably the first reasonable person I've ever heard favor GNOME for average users. In that case, I'm wrong.

Assuming I'm not wrong on (7):
That's fine if you prefer GNOME--more power to you--but for what it's worth I'll try to explain why the Mac OS is the way it is.

If I'm working inside a window near the bottom of my screen, it is a waste to move the mouse all the way to the top. Why can't I have my menus be near where I'm working?

Early on, Apple put a lot of research into their human interface guidelines. They found that, in general, the amount of time it takes a user to click a button, menu, or other control was inversely proportional to the size of the control. The exception was items at the edge of the screen, which were effectively "infinitely large" in one direction (since it was impossible to overshoot). Thus, in many cases, putting menus at a screen edge can make them faster to access. I find that, if my trackpad sensitivity is set properly, I can hit menus at the top of the screen very quickly, even if my cursor is initially at the bottom. If you're always working in small windows on a very large screen, menu-in-screen may work better for you.

And why does that window that pops up have 3 panes when you're just trying to open an app?

I'm not totally sure what you mean. Are you referring to column view in Finder windows? That's just one of three different views in Finder, the OS X file browser.

Shouldn't the app be in the menu instead of in some folder hidden somewhere?I don't get it. GNOME puts the programs in categories by you use it for and its in the menu, not opening up extra windows to get to a launcher. It's much easier to me.

Finder is only one of several means of launching applications. Commonly-used apps are usually added to the Dock, located by default at the bottom of the screen (thus benefitting from the same point I raised earlier about controls at the edge of the screen). You can replicate the category structure using a few folders of aliases in your Dock. For "power users", I highly recommend QuickSilver.

My very-non-geeky sister is confused by Macs too, but she asked for Linux after using my laptop.

The best way to help a non-timid neophyte get started on a Mac is to spend a few minutes talking to them about what they think they'll want to use the computer for, then stick the relevant programs in the Dock. Point out a few key apps, then tell them to go ahead and play. Reassure them they won't break it.

And Macs need to get right-click.

Am I being trolled? Macs have had right-click for many, many years. Plug a standard three-button mouse into a Mac and you'll see typical right-click functionality just work. Apple sells a mouse with right-click. Their laptops, although nominally one-button, let you do a "right-click" by placing two fingers on the trackpad while clicking, and on any Mac you can also just control-click to simulate a right click.

It sounds to me like you haven't given Macs a chance, or at least not recently. Buy, borrow, or otherwise use a Mac for a few days and you'll quickly get used to most of the differences you're complaining about. The few genuine preference issues you have can probably be resolved by tweaking the OS X interface with third-party utilities, although I'd strongly recommend giving the "Mac way" a fair try first. For your pains, you'll get all sorts of great stuff, ranging from launchd to Cocoa to the iLife apps to Photoshop. You may even find a Mac-only killer app for your interests, such as BibDesk for academics.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[sessamoid]

I'm with #7. I love GNOME. The Mac UI confuses me. If I'm working inside a window near the bottom of my screen, it is a waste to move the mouse all the way to the top. Why can't I have my menus be near where I'm working?

Because it doesn't make sense. Give me the Mac OS and you take the menus in the application windows. I guarantee I'll get the menu item I want faster than you can on a consistent basis. That's because I'm only searching for a menu item in two dimensions. I just slam the cursor to the top and then I only have to move left or right to find my target. With the tiny menu in the application window, you have to hit your target on both the x and y axes, either going really slow or overshooting on both.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[DDLKermit007]

Um, when was the last time you used a Mac? OSX changed many things. Not to mention if your accessing the menu that much, you should find out what keyboard shortcuts are. Right click has been there since like, OS8. Maybe earlier. Back then it required a 3rd party mouse, but now Apple even ships mice that have a right click functionality. Heck, their laptops only have one visible button, yet if you tap the trackpad with two fingers you get right-click (scroll with two fingers on the trackpad as well). On the physical mouse Apple ships theres just no hacked in visual division of right v left click past the 2D mouse-scrollball in the middle. If you push on the left you get a left click, and a right side press, well I hope you can figure that out. Not to mention 3rd (scroll ball), and 4th (squeeze the side buttons) mouse button.

Do us all a favor, and take a deep breath so you can join the rest of us in the year 2007. That, or you were just looking to find excuses to not want to say something could *gasp* be better/better looking than what you currently use. If a Mac honestly confuses you, you probably can't learn new things very well. Hell, I personally think the menu bar being at the very top is the best way to do a menu. You effectively have an infinite space vertically going up to not have to worry about. Kinda makes initial menu access one dimensional, instead of having to make sure you don't overshoot a menu because you went too high or low, but thats just me. There are very good reasons Apple has stuck with that menu system all these years.

Not to mention if you don't want to use the Dock, or dig through the Apps folder theres Quicksilver which is one of my fav things I have ever come across by accident. CTRL+Space, "couple letters of the app name", enter, and off you go. It's fairly adaptive too so it's able to fairly program specific related commands as well.

Different systems have the things they do best, and I'll be the first at least to admit that, or I wouldn't be typing this from my TB XP file server while watching video my Tivo recorded.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[gpw213]

Early on, Apple put a lot of research into their human interface guidelines. They found that, in general, the amount of time it takes a user to click a button, menu, or other control was inversely proportional to the size of the control. The exception was items at the edge of the screen, which were effectively "infinitely large" in one direction (since it was impossible to overshoot). Thus, in many cases, putting menus at a screen edge can make them faster to access. I find that, if my trackpad sensitivity is set properly, I can hit menus at the top of the screen very quickly, even if my cursor is initially at the bottom. If you're always working in small windows on a very large screen, menu-in-screen may work better for you.

Of course, the problem is that all that research was done assuming small screen sizes and a single-tasking operating system. Today, with a nice wide-screen display, I can have two separate applications up, side by side. I find it highly counter-intuitive that the application on the right will have its menus at the top of the screen, above the other app! Not to mention, it is easy to become confused about which application's menu that is up there, at this particular second.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[nschubach]

We've met? I've never dated you! (I don't think...ever been to Ohio?)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Simon Garlick]

When I got my first Intel Mac last year, one of the first things I did was install Ubuntu on it because I wanted something familiar and, of course, just because I could. Within two weeks I'd deleted it and was using OS X exclusively. Once you've seen what a truly user-friendly interface on UNIX is like, even the slickest Linux GUI feels clunky.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Tim Browse]

I find it highly counter-intuitive that the application on the right will have its menus at the top of the screen, above the other app!

You think that's bad - try multiple monitor setups, where the app's window is on one screen, and the menu bar is on the other.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[zsau]

I find it highly counter-intuitive that the application on the right will have its menus at the top of the screen, above the other app!

Worse still, the menu for an app running on your secondary screen is on the primary screen! It can be a mile away, and if you're like me and have a laptop with a small screen (i.e. something moved around frequently) and a large external monitor, it can be very difficult working out where you need to exit the screen to get to the menu. You mention it but I just have to re-iterate how hard the menu makes multi-tasking. I usually switch between windows/apps frequently; on my computer, I just move my mouse (and I can access the menu trivially), but with a Mac you need to keep remembering to switch windows before you do something in the menu. (I can't count the number of times I've got really confused because I've wound up in the preferences dialog for the wrong program.)

(I also find the dock very irritating; on a small screen, the fixed menu and dock make a wide screen even shorter because the entire space next to the dock, no matter how much, can't be used without a very contorted moving/resizing process. The dock also has a nasty habit of grouping currently running and not-running apps, and documents with minimised windows and the trash (of all things).)

The Mac: I've given it a chance. I even gave it a second chance. But they weren't made for me. That's why this box is also known as Linux imac 2.6.18-4-powerpc64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 21 13:52:06 CET 2007 ppc64 GNU/Linux.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[snowgirl]

I call them "boys", too. It's kind of funny how offended they get sometimes. *laugh*

But they're so cute and silly... and they act like boys. hehe

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Ilgaz]

This is why Google paid billion and potentially other billion to lawyers for Youtube.

Even a technical legend like Wired uses Youtube video instead of linking a network giants actual page.

They became "de facto" standard. Good or bad you decide.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Ilgaz]

After a year of struggling with windows users over use of Quicktime (which is always some standard), I added Flash videos alternatives to a site I maintain using brightcove.com service.

Idiotic mail asking, iTunes bundling Apple should be blamed. Not standards.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Ilgaz]

Yes, we really need a haxie or hack for that.

If Apple used NeXT menu system, it wouldn't be issue btw. The right click could be Applications menu.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm calling the man who is twelve years older than me a "boy" because he generally acts like one The rest of us are calling him a role model for being able to get women 12 younger than him.

Ah, living the dream...

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Two more for the list:

8. Beryl/compiz. These don't work on OS X. (Yeah, I know, OS X has a nice interface, but it's static and boring compared to beryl.)

9. More intelligent sleep functions: it won't go to sleep if the network activity and/or cpu level is above a certain threshold, unlike OS X which monitors only keyboard and mouse to gauge whether the computer is busy. As a result, OS X can go to sleep during a large download, large compile, or large simulation. Linux waits until these are finished, and then goes to sleep.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[trenien]

Of course, I find it such a pain in the $&# not to be able to copy/paste using my _THIRD_ mouse button whenever I'm away from a linux box...

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's hilarious that they have it in MPEG format. A Format which most linux distributions can't play by default due to legal issues, and you have to jump through hoops to install illegal software to do it. Novell really have lost, haven't they.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep in mind that men only act like that around you if they like you. ;-)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[jetxee]

Yes. The choice of a woman to represent Linux is perfect. It has a lot of connotations to its ease of use, zero configuration, simplicity of maintenance, interface predictability, and, finally, TCO.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[delire]

With the exception of my graphics card driver. All the software I use, and have used for many years, is free software. Moreso, I live between several computers, some of which are not my own. Assuming OS X actually becomes as performant as Linux in 3D realtime applications and other areas, call me and reccommend OS X over Linux when:

1. I can upgrade all this software with the click of a button, without having to go to websites, trust $RANDOMSITEOWNER, download their update.

2. Check the version of any package, and find out which file belongs to which package.

3. Run my OS of choice on any computer I need to, from LiveCD or from disk.

4. Upgrade my entire OS without having to pay for it. (I don't want to rent my OS).

5. When Fink and Darwin ports have even half the software of Debian (or any Debian derivative) and when they _actually work_. Linux hasn't had dependency hell for years. Why Fink and DarwinPorts do I don't know. Ideological shenanegans aside, these are really practical deal-breakers for me. OS X simply isn't an option. I use OS X fairly regularly (work) and am quite familiar with it. It simply presents no compelling features over Linux for the free software user - in fact it's light years behind.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[delire]

Oh.. not forgetting the non-free video codecs of course ;)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[TheRaven64]

This is true for the most part, but not always. OS X doesn't work very nicely on dual-monitors, unless you use a third party hack to display the menu bar on both screens. Similarly, on a really big screen it may be that the large D offsets the larger W[1] you get from putting it on the edge. By the way, you get a large W not just from the fact that it's on the edge - which doubles the effective W - but from the fact that the angle of attack is likely to be close to vertical, making it perpendicular to the longest edge, so it's not immediately obvious if this is the case. You'd have to track average window positions in a user study and then plug in the numbers, and I can't be bothered to do that just for a Slashdot post. This is something the NeXT-style vertical menu lost out on, and had to make up for by making the right mouse button summon the menu.

Whenever I test a new UI concept, I do it on my R31 ThinkPad. This model had the trackpoint abomination, and no trackpad. The result is that I am reduced to the level of skill with a pointing device I had when I was six. This makes it painfully obvious which action is easier, because the time difference between easy and hard is noticeable. On a more accurate pointing device (or, rather, one I can use more competently), the difference would often be on the order milliseconds, which only matter when you factor in the thousands of times you will perform a given action in one day.

In further defence of the Mac UI, I'd like to point out that using the menu is something I almost never do. Apple have spent two decades drumming into developers the importance of standard shortcut keys. After you've used a Mac for a few weeks, you remember these and stop hitting the menu for common tasks. Because they are standard, you can transfer the knowledge between apps (and don't immediately forget the shortcuts for app 1 when you switch to app 2). Because there is a dedicated command key, rather than the overloading of the control key that is common on Windows and PC-based UNIX (real UNIX assumes you have a keyboard with a Meta key), they work everywhere, including in the terminal. Anyone who's tried copying from a terminal by hitting control-c will know what I mean...

[1] If you don't know what I'm talking about, I suggest you look up Fitts' Law before you continue this discussion.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Nah, he acts like that all the time. He's still got a college-kid mentality for the most part.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[TheRaven64]

iTunes bundling Apple should be blamed iTunes is not bundled with QuickTime. QuickTime is bundled with iTunes (which makes sense, since iTunes won't work without the latest QT). When you go to the QuickTime download site, you are presented with the choice of either QT + iTunes, or QT. If you pick the second, you get QT without iTunes.

If your users are really too stupid to be able to operate a binary choice, then I would be really surprised if they can work out how to pay you for your product or service...

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[rishistar]

As someone who has been trying out the Mac the past few months, I feel the above on the above topics:

Menu at the top issue: Half the time when I get to the top with the mouse its not set to be the program that I'm expecting it to be. I then have to go click on the application that I want to activate. The UI research Apple did may not make sense anymore with the ability to have more apps and more screen estate in use. In addition, the 'more-intuitive and consistent app design' that I was expecting on the Mac is missing in flagship programs - eg EyeTV has four different windows available for viewing from 3 different menubar items. The Accelerator Keys are also made more obvious in Windows.

Installing Opening Applications:It took me a while to figure this out when I tried with Firefox. After clicking the installer package you get this thing saying 'drag this onto that' to install it. So i tried it in the window in front of me, but no, it was actually referring to going off and Opening the Applications folder, dragging whats on the desktop into it, rather than using the stuff that was there in front of you. If Windows wasn't polite enough to ask you about where you wanted stuff installed, that wouldn't be so bad. Linux may or may not be there yet depending on your distro.

Shouldn't the app be in the menu instead of in some folder hidden somewhere? I definitely find the GNOME menu for launching better than having a folder full of icons for application launching.

From a non-geeky friend viewpoint: my other half hates having to use the Mac but was completely at home using the Linux box straightaway. In fact she was really suprised when I told her she had been using Linux for the past two weeks!

Am I being trolled? Macs have had right-click for many, many years.: Well, maybe more applications need to actually start using it. GarageBand in particular is exceedingly annoying for not having a Context menu setup.

I like the fact with the Mac it has the Unix-backend, and that they've invented a lot of what other people have used. Its a sleek front end as well. The hardware is a nice quiet package. It has some nice bundled apps, though half of those only seem useful if you are going to give more money to Apple. On the minus side it has some real boneheaded things going on with it - eg I'd hope to get a Movie DVD playing by double clicking on it on the desktop, or at least the option of playing it when right clicking on it, but no. Its a Mac Mini plugged into TV with an Apple keyboard (with the problems that throws up) and mouse. Most suprising thing: it crashes regularly (i've had to pull the power cord on it more times in the past three months than with any Windows machine in the past five years) but on the plus side its quick to boot up.

Bottom line - my Mac experience has been one of annoyance, and so has my other halfs. Given the price differential I'm in favour of Ubuntu or XP (though I would go and set XP up better) over OSX as an OS. I'd also get the option of a box that looks how I want it to look (though I suspect to go with the iPhone they might bring out a line of tempting black models soon).

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

The last time I used a Mac was in November when I took the hard drive from a girl's old Dell, hooked it to her new Mac and got her stuff back because the old laptop was broken. Other than that, a few years ago (yes with OSX) for a web design thing. That means all I did was click Dreamweaver and Photoshop at the bottom on the Doc and avoid the menus. I did try to find a text editor. It took longer than finding a text editor should.

I know the scroll with two fingers thing, but as far as I remember, the ways to get a "right click menu" are to hit ctrl+click or hold down the button reeeeally long. I haven't tried a new Mac desktop, only the laptops, and I remember that the Mac's owner was really surprised (seriously, you OWN it and don't know that?) when I made that menu come up. I just think it's inconvenient to have to press ctrl or wait a while.

I don't get why you'd want a large amount of space between what you're doing and the menu. That means you have to move the mouse further. Yuck. The less the mouse moves the better, and who, after maybe a half hour at a computer, can't move a mouse accurately? I only ever nudge my little touchpad because the menus are generally within 200px of where my mouse is. How do you "overshoot" the menu? It pisses me off that to go "back" and "forward" on a web browser means moving all the way to the top of the screen, as does typing in the url for a new page. "Mouse gestures" is a rather awkward thing though.

Can Macs do focus on hover? I just thought of that, because I know Windows doesn't.

I don't like having two panels, so I'm not a big fan of the dock. Is there a way to put the launchers from the dock on the top panel with the menus?

I've actually got something similar to Quicksilver going now. In Beryl I set up my most common apps to use Super + a letter. G for Gaim, F for Firefox, B for Banshee, T for Terminal, etc.

Macs aren't a new thing for me, though. I learned to use a computer with an Apple ][ and there was one Mac in the room (remember when there was a distinction?) that I used a few times, and the only way to use a computer at the Carnegie Science Center has always been using a Mac. It just never seemed very intuitive at all that you have to go through a menu and find something that opens up a windows of options and then go through that to get to a program. Why not just list the programs in the menu? Much more efficient. I do like (and have for quite a while) that when you put in a disk it appears on the screen, and I wish Windows had that. It'd make things faster because no more Start > My Computer to get to it. Yes, I like Expose (I use it on here). It's great for efficiency.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

You've seen a 3D computer screen? Where? Or did you mean 1 dimension? Left/right is linear.

On a laptop "slamming the mouse to the top" requires scrolling probably three times on the trackpad. why not just scroll half a trackpad's height and hit the menu there?

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[jZnat]

I would recommend trying Kubuntu, OpenSUSE (or SUSE even, although that would involve supporting that damn Microsoft-Novell patent deal), Mandriva, or Linspire/Freespire. These distributions use KDE (K Desktop Environment), which in my opinion (and even Linus himself along with many, many others) is far more usable, customisable, and useful than GNOME, the default desktop environment for many other distributions such as Ubuntu. Although GNOME tends to look cleaner than KDE, its usability is quite, well, limited. I don't understand the circle jerk going on between most distributions and their need to use GNOME by default, but I do know that a lot of people's complaints in regards to the GUI on Linux are GNOME-specific and are not a problem with KDE.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Bralkein]

Right click has been there since like, OS8. Maybe earlier. Back then it required a 3rd party mouse, but now Apple even ships mice that have a right click functionality. Heck, their laptops only have one visible button, yet if you tap the trackpad with two fingers you get right-click (scroll with two fingers on the trackpad as well).

Cool, good to know. You're sounding very reasonable.

On the physical mouse Apple ships theres just no hacked in visual division of right v left click past the 2D mouse-scrollball in the middle. If you push on the left you get a left click, and a right side press, well I hope you can figure that out. Not to mention 3rd (scroll ball), and 4th (squeeze the side buttons) mouse button.

Oh now just look at this. Why did that have to happen, man? It was all going so well.

Do us all a favor, and take a deep breath so you can join the rest of us in the year 2007. That, or you were just looking to find excuses to not want to say something could *gasp* be better/better looking than what you currently use. If a Mac honestly confuses you, you probably can't learn new things very well.

Yikes! I have to use Macs at my university, and they confuse the hell out of me. All the same, I'm pretty sure that it's nothing to do with my intelligence. In fact, I always thought it was because, like, I never use Macs except for the odd half-hour session every week or so, and they work totally differently to my Linux desktop. Now you're telling me it's because I'm a slow learner? Poor show, man. You know what? Take the chill pill. Just take it.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[master0ne]

so going on the "knock-off" idology, microsoft wears a apple jacket, next socks, and a unix ball cap, mac wears microsoft pants, a unix bulletproof vest, a next ball cap, AND linux wears a microsoft jacket (that looks just like the apple jacket), stole apple's unix bullet-proof vest (although it had the vest first), and a next ball cap....

the os market hasnt been about orignality for years, and yes while apple has come up with some innovative products especially in the gui field, alof of whats there they knocked off from someone else, or someone else knocked it off from them soon....

IF it works, people will use it, in the OS market, "knock-off" goods arnt "lesser quality" goods, simply a reimplimentation of a good feature... (would you agree buttons and zippers are good features? are Levis Jeans knocking off Gap jeans because they both use buttons and zippers??... does it matter?)

anyway im not trying to flame you back to whence you came, because other than that i agree with you, that parody was trying to show that linux can put on a nice gui that either the MS or Mac guys can be jealous of... and that its free to do so... but lets also remember these commercials are knock off commercials of Mac commercials and will never make it to prime time TV slots....

Good day sir....

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Depends on which OS and when. When I first used a Mac? My first time on a computer. When I first used whatever the classic Mac UI is (OS 9?)? Before Windows. When I first used OSX? Yeah, I was used to Windows and good enough to get rid of viruses, it was just a little bit after OSX came out. First time I used GNOME was less than a year ago.

And yes, I am generally working in small windows all over the screen. It's called instant messaging and having lots of terminals open.

Also, as the other repliers said, if you have multiple windows open at once, you have to go over and click on the one for which you want the menu before you go to the top. That's an extra step.

But why don't the laptops actually have a right click *button*? I don't want one button. I want two. And I don't want an external mouse, because that requires moving my hands rather far from the keyboard. With a trackpad below the keyboard, I can operate the mouse with my thumbs.

Oh, uh, I also really dislike Photoshop. I've used Paintshop Pro for so long that Photoshop just seems convoluted. It has too many steps to do simple things. It was in the process of learning to use Photoshop that I used a Mac the most though. I had a web design apprenticeship where we had to use Photoshop to make our graphics and then Dreamweaver for the site (omg I hate WYSIWYG...ticked off the instructor dude that I switched it to text mode, but honestly, it's like knowing C and being given Visual Basic), and it was all on OSX. There's a lot of kids here with Macs, but there's just a lot of "little things" that are annoying.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

(I also find the dock very irritating; on a small screen, the fixed menu and dock make a wide screen even shorter because the entire space next to the dock, no matter how much, can't be used without a very contorted moving/resizing process. The dock also has a nasty habit of grouping currently running and not-running apps, and documents with minimised windows and the trash (of all things).)

Oh it does that on a Mac too? I thought that was a bug with the copycats on Linux. I had no idea it was "desired" behaviour. Screen real estate is being wasted!

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[k1e0x]

Thats pretty much right but don't write off Gnome so quickly, its also a very usable system. There are some things that could be better about it but in the case of a few things Apple has patents on them.. for instance the spring loaded folders. Nautilus had this some time ago but had to remove the function as Apple was going to sue.

>> Early on, Apple put a lot of research into their human interface guidelines.

So has Gnome. Sun spent a great deal of time user testing, and researching Gnome. This VASTLY improved Gnomes usability from 1.4 to 2.4'ish. Gnome has also done this testing on modern fast web connected computers. http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ut1_report /report_main.html Gnome is very pleasing to use, and it follows its UI Guidelines closer than anyone else. Gnome gets a lot of flack for removing preferences, but some should be removed.. for instance the Task List applet.. at one time you could set (in pixels) how large each task in the list would be.. now the applet determines the best size depending on how much space is free. (whereas you could still have a preference for this now.. the *need* for it is very low.) I think Gnome is for people who don't want to know about the computer they just want to get stuff done. (Much like OS X)

however.. lets say you want a power users desktop.. well Linux just so happens to have the best thing there as well, KDE. Or maybe its something fast and light weight.. again in comes Linux with XFCE and Fluxbox.

OS X is a great system, but my biggest complaint with it is its performance vs Linux, All the UI's in Linux mentioned give better performance than Aqua. (or Aero and Luna for that matter.)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[zsau]

I don't know what Linux copycats do, but on the Mac the dock is only as wide as it needs to be, but:

• It sits in the middle of the screen (reducing your ability to use the surrounding space)
• even if there's space, you can't resize a window to take it up. So you just get this empty desktop space. Too small to do anything with it. But you can't get a few extra vertical lines in your short screen, even though you want it!

It's possible to get around both problems: The first using a command-line utility, and the second by moving a window down so it's occupying the space, then resizing it to take up some more, then moving the window back up being careful not to touch the menu bar (or else the window resizes), and then resizing the window down a bit more. But neither of them are easy. If I ever meet Steve Jobs, I will beat him to a bloody pulp for this stupid unusable piece of shit. At least the NeXTSTEP equivalents of both the menubar and the dock were vertical down the sides, so this precious vertical space is still available!

Most Linux panels I've used are either full width, or they're just an always-on-top window. I've never tried to play with any specifically Dock copycats because I dislike it :) I can't imagine it's possible for Linux Dock copycats to be quite as evil as the Mac Dock.

(Me? I use the ROX Panel, which has an auto-raise functionality activated in similar situations as the Windows taskbar/Dock's autohide, except that if it's not or partially covered ... the rest is still visible!)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL I WANT IT ALL AND I WANT IT FREE

I'll bet you give back regularly.

Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted!
Reason: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[UnxMully]

And yes, I am generally working in small windows all over the screen. It's called instant messaging and having lots of terminals open.

Not trolling but surely if you want to select a menu on a window you want that window to be active? I can see that extra click can be an additional step but it doesn't strike me as a big deal.

But why don't the laptops actually have a right click *button*? I don't want one button. I want two. And I don't want an external mouse, because that requires moving my hands rather far from the keyboard. With a trackpad below the keyboard, I can operate the mouse with my thumbs.

It's funny but I'm the other way raoound, I really can't get used to a two-button trackpad on a non-Apple laptop.

On my MacBook if I want to right click I tap with two fingers and if I want to scroll I drag with two fingers, either vertically or horizontally.

On my Thinkpad (work), right click isn't so bad, though I still find I double-tap and wonder why I don't get the context menu, but scrolling's a complete bastard. I have to position exactly in that little vertical or horizontal bar thing and then click and drag? Blech, horrid.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

But with non-Macs, the Window automatically becomes active when you click on its menu (or in my case, when you move over the menu--I use old Unix-style focus-on-hover).

Mine scrolls if I'm just vaguely on the right-side sometimes. Doesn't require being in the bar, though that could be something in xorg.conf

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Yeah, that's how the Linux copycat ones act too. I use one panel at the top that autohides and doesn't expand all the way across, but it doesn't waste space because my window can still go all the way to the top.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[CableModemSniper]

If you are referring to the middle button pates the selection thing, that works in X11 on a Mac. Just don't use any Aqua apps ;)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[UnxMully]

But with non-Macs, the Window automatically becomes active when you click on its menu (or in my case, when you move over the menu--I use old Unix-style focus-on-hover).

This is true, though I'd be interested to see where the input focus goes when you complete your menu selection. Is it indeterminate or in the first, of any, input field?

Mine scrolls if I'm just vaguely on the right-side sometimes. Doesn't require being in the bar, though that could be something in xorg.conf

Mmmm, not a linux user so can't comment. Wait a mo while I fire up parallels to check XP.....

... Nope, you have to be in the bar to scroll. And of course, the bigger the page, the smaller the scrolling control. Interestingly, all of the Mac trackpad commands work within XP so double-tap is right click, two-finger wipe gives scrolling.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Generally, menus aren't for putting stuff in textboxes, they're for going to the preferences or save or something, which doesn't require any input except in the dialog box that pops up.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[UnxMully]

Generally, menus aren't for putting stuff in textboxes, they're for going to the preferences or save or something, which doesn't require any input except in the dialog box that pops up.

Well who'd have thought it.

However, it can be useful to understand where the input focus goes once you end your interaction with the menu. In the Apple way, it remains with the application you had selected unless the menu operation is to close the application.

In the Windows/Linux way, where does the focus go? Remembering of course that the use-case under discussion is one where you want to interact with an application that doesn't currently have input focus.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Well since I use the Unix focus-on-hover, the focus goes wherever my mouse is. If you use click-to-focus, the focus shifts to the window where you used the menu.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[UnxMully]

OK, so it gains focus. Does it pop forward, i.e. in front of any other windows, as well?

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

Yes

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[0123456789]

I'd agree with you about the menu bar, except for one circumstance. When working on my laptop with a small screen (12", I think?), having one menu bar at the top of the screen for all of the applications saves valuable screen real estate. Which is why I have KDE set up that way on the laptop, but the one menu bar per application setting on my desktop.

Apps in the menus fails horribly when you have too many apps. I find in KDE or gnome that, 9 times out of 10, I start apps from the command line 'cos it's easier than digging through the menu to find them.

And macs do have a right click. Have had since before I started using one. True the default mouse used to be one button (I think the mighty mouse is now default?), but that's easy to replace. I'm not sure if the Apple laptops are multi- or single-mouse button?

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mackyrae]

The laptops are single button. I use Alacarte to edit my GNOME menus to not have stuff I'll never use, and then I have shortcuts for what I use all the time. It's the "moderately useful" stuff I use the menus for.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[jonadab]

> I don't want to rent my OS

The rest of your post may be valid, but "rent" is definitely not a fair description of the business model surrounding OS X. Like with automobiles, you can continue using the model you have as long as you like, without paying Apple another dime. Of course, if you want to trade in for next year's model, that's going to cost you something.

Granted, this differs from the Ubuntu business model. And granted, there are significant incentives to get the new model (not least that new software, if you should happen to want any, is frequently only available for recent versions of the OS). Nonetheless, it's not renting.

Renting would be if they had something like WGA or activation, and then on top of that set it up to fail and disable the OS once the product version goes end-of-life. Even Microsoft does not go that far (though I imagine the thought may have crossed their mind).

I'm not saying I entirely agree with the way Apple does things. I tend to think every year is too often for a paid update, at least on my budget. Nonetheless, if you pay any attention at all, you know what the product lifecycle looks like when you make your purchase decision, and, as noted, there's nothing preventing you from continuing to use the version you've got for several years after Apple quits selling it -- nothing, that is, besides your own desire to have the latest and greatest. (And if you really want to live on the true bleeding edge, you'd be running CVS versions of everything anyhow, right?)

And no, I'm not a Mac user, though I've worked with Macs from time to time over the years (two words: "Mac Plus"). Currently my main workstation at home runs FreeBSD, and at work Ubuntu, and most of the other systems I administer are either Debian stable (servers and kiosks and a couple of firewalls) or XP Pro (staff workstations, which have to run Windows-only line-of-business software).

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[True Vox]

God, I wish that I had Mod "Funny" points.... Please, tell me you were joking, right? Right???......

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Chandon Seldon]

I use Linux in the sense that everybody except Richard M Stallman uses--I mean the entire OS, in a generic sense that does not specify a particular distribution, rather than just the kernel.

Using Linux in that sense is not as useful as you'd think. Saying "Linux-based system" is clearer. But... usually what you really want is "Free Unix System" - there's rarely a case where you really want to include Blue Cat Linux and not include stuff like Nexenta OS or even OpenBSD.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Blakey Rat]

I've never heard of "EyeTV". In what way is it a "flagship program?"

When I think flagship program, I would think something like Dreamweaver, or Photoshop, or Office. Or one of Apple's first-party applications like Aperture or Pages. If anything, I'd say the current flagship application for Macintosh is iTunes, honestly.

The thing you have to remember is that any programmer on any system can make an awful UI. The difference is that, on average, Macintosh applications have a better UI. That doesn't mean EVERY Mac application is better than EVERY PC application.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Blakey Rat]

I agree with you about the Dock.

There's an undocumented feature where you can "anchor" the Dock on the left/top side of the screen, and it works much better that way for me. On my laptop with the smaller 1024x768 monitor, I put the Dock vertically along the left edge, then "anchor" it to the top of the screen and turn the icon size down to 32 or so.

Unfortunately, I just uninstalled Dev tools a few days ago, so I can't open the .plist file now to look up what the name of this hidden option is. Sorry. :(

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[superposed]

Speaking as a frequent Mac user, I can see the concerns people have been getting at in this thread, but I find most of them are manageable. In exchange, I get a system that I don't have to become an OS expert to setup and manage (I don't want to spend my time that way anymore), and one with a richer interface (more 3D and "solid") and better search capability than XP (e.g., instant search for files, or for any e-mail message I've ever received or sent). System and application settings are also much more transparent than in XP (the Library file system is much easier to manage than the registry).

Going into some of the points thrown around here: I'm surprised that setting preferences would be among the most common menu actions for so many people. Sounds like a lot of tinkering. But anyway, for most common actions on the Mac (including preferences), there are standard keyboard shortcuts. This makes the position of the menubar less important. When I want to edit or save a particular document on the Mac, I just use Cmd-Tab to get there, then start typing or use Cmd-S to save. Alternatively, I could click on the relevant window with the mouse, then use one of these keyboard shortcuts. I don't see how these could be any faster in Linux. If I need to use the menu for a particular document, I'm in the habit of Cmd-Tabbing to it (without moving the mouse), then throwing the mouse pointer up to the menu bar. This may be slower than just hitting a menubar within the relevant window, but it isn't too painful. (One thing I would like is an intuitive keyboard-based window-switcher instead of application-switcher; Witch gets close, but takes a while to popup the window list at first, sorts Carbon windows unreliably, and requires System Preferences that are incompatible with Parallels.)

Also, the dock need not take up vertical space on the screen. I keep mine along the left edge. All the windows know it's there, so they usually end up filling the screen vertically without any trouble.

I can see the case for a built-in right-click function, but I mostly notice this when I am working with Windows programs (e.g., pasting at a Command Prompt, using the Send To -> Notepad option in Explorer, or creating a new folder in Explorer). Arguably, the Mac alternatives to these actions are better than right-click anyway (Cmd-V in Terminal, or drag a document to the TextEdit icon in the dock, or Shift-Cmd-N to make a new folder in Finder [I can't stand waiting for Explorer to dig up icons for every possible new document template when I just want a new folder!]). The point being, you need right-click much more if the interface is designed to use it, and Macs work fine most of the time without it (and that may be why Apple doesn't build in a right-click button -- so developers won't force people to use it). I find myself getting a lot of phantom right-clicks if I use the two-fingered tap option, so I disable that and just ctrl-click when I need it; a real right-click built in to the laptop would be easier. Maybe someday Apple will make the trackpad button work like the Mighty Mouse -- power users could set the left and right sides of the (single) button to work differently.

And I agree, something could be done to improve application finding and launching. My Applications folder winds up full of a mixture of individual applications, and folders containing applications and support files. By default, if I want anything other than what I've put in the Dock, I have to open up Finder and dig into this mess. I could create custom categorized folders full of aliases, but that would take some time and upkeep. I have put my Applications and Utilities folders in the Dock, but I have to either ctrl-click or click-and-hold to get them to popup, and they take a few seconds extra if they haven't been used for a while. All these little delays make that approach unappealing. In the end, I now just use Spotlight most of the time to get to applications that aren't in the Dock. Cmd-Spacebar, "disk in", down-arrow, return, will launch "Disk Inventory X", wherever it is.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[ronocdh]

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

That's it. If he's already running Ubuntu, he doesn't need to switch distros just for KDE.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Ilgaz]

The Quicktime should be the preselected one, not iTunes+Quicktime.

My users aren't stupid, it is Apple who is stupid. Also site is coded on OS X, hosted on Xserve, media created on Quicktime based Apps. I really deserve couple of things to say.

Do you wonder why Macromedia/Adobe Flash plugin has become that successful? No nag download and no third party/additional bundles or anything. Why ordinary people started to install/upgrade their Java? Zero effort, no nag download page at Sun even localised based on users browser language.

I am not even going into adding it to startup or asking for mail while it is not needed.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

The rest of us are calling him a role model for being able to get women 12 younger than him.

Ah, living the dream...

The real shocker is, he's 24 years old.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[njh]

7) You actually think Linux's user interface is nicer than OS X (since they both offer the same choice of shells, this comes down to GUI preference).

This is the most common reason where I work - people find Ubuntu a nicer interface than MacOS. Having just got a current imac, I'm inclined to agree. The MacOSX interface is actually quite clumsy compared to the default gnome interface in 6.10.

Switching to Ubuntu on the mac is a common enough query that we have an image for it now.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[aristotle-dude]

You don't get it. Having a different window manager is not going to make the applications any easier to your or the UI any less inconsistent. The problem is that some linux applications use KDE controls, others use Gnome while yet others use their own proprietary controls. Now before you all jump over me, I would consider controls proprietary if nobody else uses them regardless of whether source is available.

Linux lacks focus. I don't see a problem with people trying to innovate but the applications should have gravitated to one GUI toolkit by now. Forking Ubuntu as Kubuntu, Zubuntu, or BecauseIhateevetybodybuntu is part of the problem.

OS X apps benefit from having one toolkit that is robust and feature filled which tends to speed up development and provides a certain amount of UI consistency automatically.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Mspangler]

"Shouldn't the app be in the menu instead of in some folder hidden somewhere?"

I see your problem, as I had it too. Things were actually tidier in the OS 8 days. And you can't move apps in the Applications folder without risking breakage on updates, so what I've done is customize things into three parts.

The most common apps are moved to the dock. What Apple thinks should be there did not match my opinions, so I moved them on or off until the dock was actually useful. And I moved the dock to the side instead of the bottom. There are 11 icons in the top section of the dock.

The second tier of apps (occasional use) are in a folder sitting in the bottom section of the dock, just above the trash can. The folder actually holds aliases of the apps to avoid the issues mentioned above. There are a dozen aliases in the folder.

The third tier is still in the applications folder. However, the Applications folder is on the dock. There are 58 of them not counting what is in the sub-folders like Apple's Utilities and my Video Stuff.

I find this triage system works well for me. It definitely works better than the infinite 'row through the start menu' system on the XP box at work. However, I am a positional person. I don't generally read the text on the icons, I swing the mouse to hit the color, or the menu postition, and go. Bill's "let's randomly rearrange then menus based on what I think you should be doing" is always the first thing I turn off.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bottom line - my Mac experience has been one of annoyance [...] I'm in favour of Ubuntu or XP

The only thing more pathetic than a PC user is a PC user trying to be a Mac user. We have a name for you people: switcheurs.

There's a good reason for your vexation at the Mac's user interface: You don't speak its language. Remember that the Mac was designed by artists, for artists, be they poets, musicians, or avant-garde mathematicians. A shiny new Mac can introduce your frathouse hovel to a modicum of good taste, but it can't make Mac users out of dweebs and squares like you.

So don't force what doesn't come naturally. You'll be much happier if you stick to an OS that suits your personality. And you'll be doing the rest of us a favor, too; you leave Macs to Mac users, and we'll leave beige to you.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Smurf]

Worse still, the menu for an app running on your secondary screen is on the primary screen! It can be a mile away, and if you're like me and have a laptop with a small screen (i.e. something moved around frequently) and a large external monitor, it can be very difficult working out where you need to exit the screen to get to the menu.

In such a scenario it's better to set the larger, external monitor as the primary screen. This can be done by dragging the mini-title bar from one "monitor" to the other in the Arrangement tab of the "Displays" System Preferences panel. If you disconnect the external monitor (say, to take the laptop home), the menu bar will return to the internal monitor. When you reconnect the monitor, the menu bar returns to it.

I know this doesn't solve the "application with windows in the secondary screen issue", but what you are saying kind of implies that you can't change which is the primary monitor, and that's not the case.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's funny, because I went the other way around. I wanted to get away from Windows so I bought a mac because it was supposed to be "great". And it was, for a while. Out of curiosity one day I decided to try the live Kubuntu CD and within about 2 months I switched to Kubuntu full time. OS X is nice for simple tasks and very slick for media handling, but for getting the kind of work I do (web development, C programming, etc) done, Kubuntu on the same hardware faster and far more productive. Plus I love the Linux community, they are MUCH more friendly than the OS X community.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[zsau]

Speaking as a frequent Mac user, I can see the concerns people have been getting at in this thread, but I find most of them are manageable. In exchange, I get a system that I don't have to become an OS expert to setup and manage (I don't want to spend my time that way anymore),

I don't either; but I did most of the work on my environment years ago. It takes me a bit to set up a new computer because I have to install programs and get all the damn hardware to work with Linux (a task I desparately wish was a thing of the past), but once there, I have a computer that knows how I like to work. I've found the once-per-computer cost well worth the payoff.

I tried switching to the Mac precisely because I thought being able to have a unix without having to worry about making the computer work would be a treat ... but I'd have to deal with the Mac's UI every day if I'm running a Mac...

I'm surprised that setting preferences would be among the most common menu actions for so many people. Sounds like a lot of tinkering.

I used that as an example to show that the fact that there's the applications name in the menubar doesn't help me. I mean, obviously if I get into the wrong application's preferences menu, I've click the wrong application's name; but the way I operate, I don't really care about the application's name, so I just click on the big bold thing up near the apple.

But anyway, for most common actions on the Mac (including preferences), there are standard keyboard shortcuts.

I'm not really interested in using keyboard shortcuts. I've generally found directly using menus (especially context menus) to be a lot faster in the early stages than trying to memorise the keyboard shortcut. Then there's that research by Tog that suggests that even once you're experienced, using menus is still faster... Even for copy/paste I tend to use the mouse (altho, I'm much more comfortable with X11's PRIMARY selection copy/paste method, so that's a big part of why I use the mouse for such ops in other environments).

OTOH, my normal text editor is (G)VIM. Go figure.

One thing I would like is an intuitive keyboard-based window-switcher instead of application-switcher

Indeed; the Mac's application-centric environment (which can summarise most of my problems with the menubar/dock/window behavior) is completely contrary to my preferred way of working and thinking, which is window/task centric. I find it hard to believe that anyone could like the Mac way, especially the people who need easy-to-use systems like Apple's usually marketing at, but obviously people do. To each his own.

The point being, you need right-click much more if the interface is designed to use it, and Macs work fine most of the time without it (and that may be why Apple doesn't build in a right-click button -- so developers won't force people to use it).

Even the Finder has at least one feature you can only access via the context menu. Of course, considering you know that the right-click menu is meant to be a second-class citizen on the Mac, if you know the feature is there somewhere but not where, you won't find it! (It is a relatively technical option—looking inside an application—but I don't see why that's an excuse.)

(On GNU/Linux, I run the ROX desktop, apps for which eschew window menu bars in favor of exclusively using context menus. The command to looking inside an application is obviously on a context menu ... but then so is everything! ;)

As for starting applications, I assume that was a reply to mackyrae. I don't start applications often, so either the Mac everythings-in-a-folder way or the Windows use-a-menu way work fine for me; ROX encourages the Mac way so it's what I use and I probably don't open my ~/apps folder most weeks. But I tend to have programs like my music player, email client and web browser set to start automatically; and for everything else I find the file I want to open in the file manager or terminal, and open it. Almost any operating system supports this mode at least as easily as a find-an-app-start-the-app mode.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Ian_Bailey]

no matter how well imitated, where is Linux innovation in GUI?

The innovation is happening in projects like Beryl and Compiz. (It also looks like they're merging!)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Simon Garlick]

I would recommend trying Kubuntu

It was Kubuntu I used until I got a Mac, and it was Kubuntu I deleted.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what I did at my last job in a Mac shop -- Ubuntu really flew on the Core Solo Mac Mini, too. Most of my work was spent in SSH sessions, so terminal and even iTerm became too annoying to bear. And what's with the python interpreter not supporting basic readline-like functions like command history? Realizing that Evolution works with Exchange was the last straw, as I could get the office email. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find a chat client that would work with Bonjour, but since it wasn't strictly required I just gave up.

I have a MacBook now, but I feel claustrophobic because of the lack of multiple desktops. Not to mention the nice KDE features I've grown to love. I'll take Gnome or KDE over MacOS any day; it's klunky by comparison. Also, I swear my older Celeron M laptop with Linux feels more responsive than Mac slOw S on a Core Duo. (Keep in mind that I'm only referring to the Desktop feel here. Video encoding doesn't take all night anymore, but that's something I rarely do.) And icons don't bounce up and down when their windows want attention.

It was really great to watch the spoofs. Linux is definitely hot. However, I do agree with one thing they said in one of the original Mac ads: everything just "kind of" works with a Mac.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

No matter how old I get, they're always "boys" and "girls". (I've not only been with Linux but Mac and PC too!)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[jp10558]

But on Windows, you have numerous scroll devices - that is, my mouse has a scroll wheel, on Thinkpads there's that middle click + trackpoint to scroll, on HPs and others there's the scroll bar on the right side of the trackpad. So I basically never use the scroll bar.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got to be kidding about the iPhone! You'd seriously go with the least supported & most closed mobile OS on the planet?

Simbian phones are amazing, period. But I'll accept that you might find Nokia's lack of style annoying. Motorola OTOH has amazingly sexy Linux phones. Windows mobile is not ideal, but it's got plenty of software & look options. Just check out gsmarena.com. And don't even consider the iPhone.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[mjc_w]

Go to System Preferences, click on Dock, and you have the following options:

Dock size (a slider from "Small" to "Large" - I have fairly small)

Magnification (I have this off)

Position on screen: Left, Bottom, or Right (I use Left on my 12" iBook)

Minimize using (various choices - just eye candy imho)

Check boxes: Animate opening applications (off for me)
                          Automatically hide and show the dock (on for me)

This allows the Dock to be comfortable for my use.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[craiglarry]

Didn't spend a lot of time reading your stuff. Have this one comment. Why not get apple OS, Answer: MONEY

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[rishistar]

From the way it seemed to be bundled with every single TV card on the Apple Store website it made me feel like quite the only Mac oriented TV program out there. Obviously given AppleTV has come into being their may be a better native version out there.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[rishistar]

As you are an artist, what are you doing on slashdot? Though that does explain the AC posting - you haven't figured out how to signup for a login yet ;-) BTW My PCs and home entertainment system are all very cool shades of black. Apples love of white, and your snobbishness, reminds me of the dystopian society in THX 1138. Though everything else reminds me of Darth Vader, so go figure.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[EsbenMoseHansen]

It goes to the last used element in that application where the menu resides... at least with KWin. This is with click-to-focus, this being KDE, you can probably have it any way you like it. That includes that awful Mac OS menubar :)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[EsbenMoseHansen]

Apps in the menus fails horribly when you have too many apps. I find in KDE or gnome that, 9 times out of 10, I start apps from the command line 'cos it's easier than digging through the menu to find them.

You might consider launching those apps with Katapult or the alt-F2 (KRunner). No, I don't use the menu much either, it's mostly useful for finding some app which I don't know the name of.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[EsbenMoseHansen]

Plays just fine here, using no illegal software, hoops or anything else. Was installed by default, I believe.

Of course, I have no doubt that the software is illegal somewhere, but then, what isn't?

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Blakey Rat]

Ok, and if I have a program which was the only program that translated Word documents into Finnish, then scrambled the words randomly, then output haikus based on it... by definition that would be a "flagship app?"

No, I still think anything "flagship" should be the most important application for the system, the one that's used to sell it. Macs aren't sold to be DVRs, so I don't see how any DVR program could be "flagship" on the platform.

In any case, like I stated above, Apple does everything in their power to prevent crappy software on the system, but there's absolutely nothing they can do about programmers who are really dedicated to making crappy software. Blaming Apple for one crummy program is like blaming Microsoft for Adobe Reader's crappy programming. It makes no sense.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[rishistar]

Case taken in point, (though Mac Mini's were pushed as 'use it as a DVR with the brilliant EyeTV', which is why I decided to try using it as one) but then the argument I've always heard is that Mac programs are much better designed than Windows programs. I only bring that point up after having so many Mac fanboys bring it up in the past. To be fair I would have preferred something that was Front Row integrated by Apple than a 3rd party product, but I guess they want to shift AppleTV's. Having analysed the original point of discussion further and noted how I act with the menu bar at the top of the screen I find that I often have to go down to the dock to activate the program at the bottom of the screen then all the way to the top to use the menu for that program (as well as the original not being sure what program is active by the time I get to the menubar issue). I guess they did those efficiency tests before the Dock came into being and the lack of Accelerator keys doesn't help. On the plus Expose is really nice though I would prefer it if the Alt-Tab style go through windows set up offered all open windows as well (not just open programs, unless there's a different Key combo for that).

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[AvitarX]

I don't buy the persistence of keyboard shortcuts argument at all.

On Windows I have the Windows key and it lets me do things (show desktop, minimize all windows, bring up a search window, open an explorer windows, run a command line). I use this all the time. On a MAC it is not the case. These all exist on the MAC, but only when the finder is in focus, or they are non-reserved shortcuts. An example of non-reserved shortcuts is Expose over-riding the F keys in Quark and Photoshop.

I guess it is just a preference thing, but I find the Apple way of shortcuts confusing and disorienting (why aren't my utilities popping up?)

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Gizzmonic]

Linux hasn't had dependency hell for years.

Did you hear that whizzing sound? That was your credibility, dropping through the floor.

I'll admit, Mac OS took some steps backward in the UI department when they went to OS X, and GNOME is better than ever (closer to Classic Mac OS or BeOS now), but let's not kid ourselves.

Linux has a long way to go in UI, for the simple reason that Linux users don't even have a consistent graphics system besides the primitive X11.

I won't even respond to your other obtuse list of demands, except to say that if those are supposed to be Linux's only strengths over OS X, you're selling it WAAAAY short.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[delire]

Hi Scott,

I was talking about my own needs in an OS to be productive, not making assumptions about anyone elses.

I wouldn't be so hasty to throw X11 to the lions, there are a few of us that find OS X's UI sluggish and frustrating - the Finder in particular (why does my software need to be 'found' all the time?). Why do I need to constantly lift my mouse to the top of the screen to access per-application menus when my mouse is already above a given applications focused window? Some poeple find such things intuitive, but there are those that don't. Given the choice of OS X or your "primitive X11" I'd far rather take the latter.

I see a lot of people working with Linux (many for the first time) and what always strikes me as positive is just how many of the class will immediately start tweaking their desktop environment - once they realise it's possible. Within a few hours they've yielded it to the way they think, the way they like to work. Some of the outcomes completely blow away grand-unified field theories abour useability: bizarre concoctions, yet those same students express how they've always felt such configurability was missing in OS X or Windows.

Others however find the very fact this flexibility exists disconcerting somehow, as though the possibility for such variation undermines their willingness to learning the new platform. They feel more confident learning to work productively and efficiently in the environment as it is given, with few if any adjustments (some don't even touch the background image). Thankfully X11 can satisfy those that greatly value - or feel they need- such flexibility (quirks and baggage aside) and closed-source and less configurable interfaces - like those used in OS X or Windows - can provide for those that would rather just trust that the interface designer knows what they are doing.

. To recap - and in light of supposed credibility - you might try to read with subjectivity in mind next time. It'll do wonders for your karma.

Cheers.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[WilliamSChips]

Apple's love of white reminds me of the Priors from SG-1. And considering the average Mac zealot, it's a pretty good comparison.

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but you and your girlfriend are idiots. My wife could barely use my old Win2k box, yet can run iPhoto, Photobooth, the DVD player, and is halfway to making her own DVDs with iDvd. I had the the Win box since we got married in 2000, and have had this Mac for 3 1/2 months (Xmas present).

Re:How about a link to the downloadable videos?

[ioshhdflwuegfh]

like the third one best because it actually implies something useful to people about Linux: it has what you want on PCs and Macs (even games via Wine and Cedega, but they don't mention that). I dunno, for me by far the best part was the hammer action in the second part. It conveys in a subtle manner a rather simple solution of the Windows vs Linux debate.

Nice!

[Carthag]

I hate that I can't use any X11 apps or any posix apps on my mac. It's seriously annoying when I go to type curl -f -O hwait... oh it works. Well how about etherea-oh that works too. Well ScummVM! no I guess that works too. Screw it, now all my anger over not having open source software on my mac is for moot. Dang it all to heck!

Re:Nice!

[adamchou]

hey... what a ooincidence. thats just like apples campaign. pretend features that the mac have are exclusive. or even better yet, pretend that the mac is immune to security problems.

Re:Nice!

[gumpish]

I hate that I can't use any X11 apps or any posix apps on my mac.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/

Re:Nice!

[jfengel]

You must be using Safari. It doesn't render tags properly.

Re:Nice!

[Anonymous Coward]

</sarcasm> perchance?

Re:Nice!

[ZakuSage]

Try installing Amarok on OS X and you'll feel the pain. It took me a full 23 hours to install it via fink, having to compile KDE alone with it...

Re:Nice!

[VGPowerlord]

I know this was a joke, but why would you run the X11 version of ScummVM when there's a native OSX version?

Re:Nice!

[Carthag]

I was just rambling off the first OSS software that came to mind. I run ScummVM in the native version (actually I run svn update once in a while cause I have all the Gob games and I love playing them).

Re:Nice!

[Sfing_ter]

you should stick with the pain of using itunes, I mean, you bought a mac...

Re:Nice!

[jfengel]

Ah, son of a b*tch. That was supposed to be "sarcasm tags", which Slashdot promptly removed, making me look (and feel like, and presumably be) a complete idiot. Sorry.

Re:Nice!

[nine-times]

I don't know about that. It seems to my that Apple is implying that Macs are easier for certain sorts of things (creative things, whereas it acknowledges that Windows machines are good for business purposes). Also, they don't really claim that they're immune to security problems. They just say Macs don't have as many security problems. (True!)

Wow

[Scott Lockwood]

I got this almost a week ago. Remember when you used to get news like this on Slashdot, first?

Re:Wow

[sumdumass]

WE had to get in enough Anti-Novell Submissions before allowing Pro-Novell submissions to see the light of day. It is all about not pissing of the bulk of the crowed or trying to persuade public opinion.

Re:Wow

[dmbrun]

Remember when you used to get news like this on Slashdot, first?

No.

Which century was that?

Re:Wow

[QuantumHobbit]

Its true its been posted and duped twice on Digg as far as I know. Oh and Luke used his dad's lightsaber for a while, just as I'm posting on my mom's Dell. Only I can't deflect lasers with it. Wait, that gives me a thought.

Re:Wow

[SEE]

Remember when you used to get news like this on Slashdot, first?

No, can't say I do. Which means either my memory is getting faulty, or you were reading /. back in 1997.

Re:Wow

[tsa]

Twentieth. Long ago.

Re:Wow

[Ilgaz]

Well there is Firehose now.

Also are you sure you want Slashdigg.com with some tiny weeny gangs, fanatics, fanboys and PR companies all over the place?

I am personally hoping Slashdot editors says "OK- Firehose is good, enough, lets keep our own qualities instead of racing with some wannabe sites".

I have noticed massive score abuse recently on Slashdot after that "cool dynamic" scoring started. Flamebait is used as "digg down" which means complete abuse of this system.

Look why I am afraid of _that_ dynamic site http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/According_to_Novell _ads_Linux_is_a_cute_girl_who_needs_a_haircut

Re:Wow

[Scott Lockwood]

Exactly so, though with a different user id. (I was/am Vladinator)

Re:Wow

[TheRaven64]

I am personally hoping Slashdot editors says "OK- Firehose is good, enough, lets keep our own qualities instead of racing with some wannabe sites". Shashdot editors don't really have any control over the quality of the site. They post some random links, everyone ignores them, and then the interesting material is in the comments. The moderation system helps keep trolls under control due to the scarcity of mod points (on digg, everyone has infinite mod points, so it's easy for a small, dedicated group to push an agenda). The nice threading of the comment system helps too, of course.

The Slashdot system is naturally resistant to change. You don't get mod points until more than 5% of users are newer than you. It would take 50,000 new users coming in before any of them get mod points, and even then they would be in the minority.

Not Flash again.

[mosel-saar-ruwer]

var fo = new FlashObj("/img/flash/media_player.swf", 320, 260);

God, I hate Macromedia, and the marketing departments that are addicted to it.

Does no one post MPGs anymore?

Re:Not Flash again.

[Dadoo]

Does no one post MPGs anymore?

Hey, don't complain. From what I've seen, everyone's addicted to WMVs, these days. At least Flash is a step up.

Re:Not Flash again.

[ElephanTS]

. . . and Adobe for buying them

Re:Not Flash again.

[itsdapead]

God, I hate Macromedia, and the marketing departments that are addicted to it.

Yeah, don't you just hate the way streamed Flash videos "just work" across PC and Mac, with IE, Firefox, Safari or Opera - for anybody with the ubiquitous Flash plug-in installed?

Of course, they discriminate against Linux users... Oh, wait, no, I just clicked "Install Plugin" in Firefox under Ubuntu and the video was running within 15 seconds... OK, so its not so easy if you're running PPC or 64 bit, and I had to click-through my Immortal Soul to Adobe, but they'd have to fight Microsoft, the Inland Revenue and T-Mobile if they wanted to collect that!

Yes, Flash is propietary, and yes, it has been abused for unnecessary eye candy, but it is also a bloody good product for small-scale, web-deliverable, cross-platform multimedia/forms apps that don't need the full might (and bewildering technology thicket) of Java. Show me (say) a combination of SVG and ECMAScript that actually works reliably.

PS "works reliably" in this context precludes telling your users/clients/potential customers "What? You're using Firefox|IE|Safari under Windows|MacOS? Just install Gentoo and do 'sudo apt-get-install mypersonalideaofadecentbrowserV1.0E-12PreAlpha' you moron! "

Re:Not Flash again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh sure! Flash is ubiquitous at CRASHING. The stupid thing get slower every release too. Not to mention security bugs.

If you think people want something ubiquitous, why don't they just use MPG for videos then? It works on EVERY platform. Not only that but it's very mature and stable.

Re:Not Flash again.

[MenTaLguY]

OK, so its not so easy if you're running PPC or 64 bit

Wait, so you mean it's possible under PPC?

Re:Not Flash again.

[Scudsucker]

Yes, Flash is propietary, and yes, it has been abused for unnecessary eye candy

Get Firefox and install Flashblock. It replaces all flash animations with a "play" icon that you click to start, taking care of all those annoying advertisements. You can also whitelist sites like Youtube if you want. Flashblock + Adblock + Noscript = browsing nirvana. Noscript blocks all javascript on a page until you whitelist the site, either temporarily or permanently. And adblock allows you to selectively block scrips on a page.

For example, in one of my classes tests are taken online. The site uses a lot of Flash and javascript, so I have the site whitelisted. But they have a javascript to block right-clicking - one of my biggest pet peeves. So I use Adblock to block that script but leave everything else open.

Re:Not Flash again.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, don't you just hate the way streamed Flash videos "just work" across PC and Mac, with IE, Firefox, Safari or Opera - for anybody with the ubiquitous Flash plug-in installed?

You must not be a Mac user. I am, and I'm not sure I'd describe the plugin as "just works" here. On an Intel Mac (you know, like Apple's been shipping for over a year), if you happen to right-click on a Flash video, the plugin freezes. (That's just one reliable way to show how unreliable it is. On some youtube videos, it can crash Safari. It makes Windows 95 look stable.)

I use Mac, Windows, and Linux boxes every day, and the only video type that I can say "just works" across all three is MPEG. That's probably because there are native viewers on each platform.

Show me (say) a combination of SVG and ECMAScript that actually works reliably.

We're talking about video here. The proposed alternative was MPEG. SVG/ECMAscript is completely off-topic.

Steve The Super Villain

[dave1g]

This one convinced me a long time ago!

http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?pid=54

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[StarvingSE]

Best. Video. Ever. Linux is the OS of super villains everywhere.

On a more serious note, I kind of like the fact that Linux takes some technical know-how to run (shell scripts, configuring, compiling binaries as the vid states). I get geek cred when people come over and see this foreign OS called Linux on my machines. For that reason alone, who cares if it goes mainstream. Let the geeks have their own OS, the masses can use Winblowz.

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[Anonymous Coward]

As long as basic standards are upheld, the more OSes the merrier. This whole one above them all bullshit has got to stop. There is not one car that is the best (well sure it might have great grip, but it sucks in the glove compartment compartment (get it)). http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/ emot-iiaca.gif

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[edwardpickman]

And you wonder why Linux has taken up a perminate number three position? Until the average user can install and run it it'll alway be for geeks and those that can aford to pay for tech support. I'd love to be using it but I've yet to be able to get a version running on any machine. I have three seperate PCs and one Mac. I tried Ubuntu Live on all the PCs with no luck. It had a different problem on each machine. In the past I've tried Red Hat, Mandrake and Suise with no luck. Personally I couldn't care less about geek points for fighting my way through installing an OS. I'm into it for software. There are some advanges with Linux on high end graphics software but it's still too much hassle to set up and use. Really computers should be more about the software than the OS. The very fact there's still a fight proves that none of the OSs are mature enough to provide an environment that leaves you free to work without dealing with the OS. Mac probably comes the closest but even they aren't free of OS hassles. For all the technical advantages Linux still scores the worst on ease of install and use. Untill there's a fairly painless install for 90% of the machines out there Linux will always be third.

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[jZnat]

Who cares if Joe Sixpack can use Linux? If it's a geek operating system as you think, then that means I gain respect as a geek (aka geek cred) for using such an awesome operating system like Linux. It's like being able to say that you drive manual (in the US at least) and thus have the authority to gloat over others and be a general dick. :)

Also, I feel that all operating systems suck in their own respects (similar to styles of governments), but Linux and other open source Unix-like systems suck least.

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[Anonymous Coward]

And you wonder why Linux has taken up a perminate number three position? "Number three"? So who's number two? OS X? Hahaha.....
 
/me knows he's getting modded down by apple astroturfers/morons|users

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[Rich0]

Not sure if the video is supposed to promote or demote linux, since on my 64-bit konqueror it doesn't show up at all (well, like all flash-based videos).

Gotta love that a video about open source would be done in a format that is about as proprietary as it gets...

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[master0ne]

wow, what version of ubuntu live have you tried?? ive poped it into litterally hundreds of machines no problem... (everything from drapper drake, all the way throught feisty fawn beta last night....) id like to see what problems your having, maby its sompthing that needs to be submitted as a bug report...??? my email is emberingdead|\|05P4|\/|@gmail.com (drop all the letters and numbers between the first and last |)

Re:Steve The Super Villain

[BUTT-H34D]

Heh heh. Huh huh. You said "Number two". Huh huh.

You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[khasim]

You really need better writers. Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough.

Look at what each of the other commercials is about. Each has a point.

Macs are easy to setup - PC's are not.
Macs are secure - PC's keep asking you to confirm each action.

Your point is ... Linux is a 3rd choice?

Why not focus on something like ... no license requirements? PC and Mac both dig into their wallets ... Linux invites all her friends along.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough.

Good enough for the beta release, anyway.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[Blakey Rat]

Or in one word: FAIL

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[bobbonomo]

And there are about 20 or more different kinds or flavours

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[adamchou]

Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough.

you haven't looked around at the slashdot crowd lately have you? sure it is.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[CastrTroy]

The slashdot crowd already knows how cool Linux is, you have to get the rest of the people.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[mightyQuin]

I do like, though, that it clears up the pronunciation issue.

Can't count how many times I've cringed when I've heard people say lee-nix and line-ex.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[backdoc]

Oh. C'mon. They clearly make points such as in the first commercial the mac and pc are so busy fighting over who is #1, they don't even notice Linux. And, when they do, it's very mature. Get it???

And, in the second video, she is fashionable and gets a new look quite often while the and the pc says he will be wearing the jacket for 5 or 6 years.

I think the commercials are both good and humorous.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[mdwh2]

You really need better writers. Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough.

And how is that any different to what Apple did - portraying PC as boring guy in a suit, Mac as hip and trendy, and then reeling off a load of assertions.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[CosmeticLobotamy]

Why not focus on something like ... no license requirements? PC and Mac both dig into their wallets ... Linux invites all her friends along.

See, that's why I'm not in advertising. I would have had guys in top hats and monocles paying Mac and PC for sex and then Linux doing like nine homeless guys.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[Stormwatch]

Can't count how many times I've cringed when I've heard people say lee-nix and line-ex.

Yeah, that sucks. The right pronounciation is gnoo slash lee-nux.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[ampathee]

Linus Torvalds pronounces it 'leenucks' - http://uranus.it.swin.edu.au/~jn/linux/saylinux.ht m

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[Frozen Void]

There cannot be an argument,it definitely Lunix.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[zsau]

Hey, I remember that recording! It was the audio card driver test for Red Hat 5.1 (or whatever the first distro I had that supported my sound card was).

Any case, to my ears it sounds like "lin-ooks". Which is precisely the reason there's a debate in the first place: Some people hear the vowel as long ee (because it's more like ee in their English), and others here the vowel as short i (because it's more like short i in our English).

But like the author's page, I also pronounce Linux to rhyme with "cynics". I don't see myself as particularly cynical to do so; it's just that it's the obvious anglicisation of his pronounciation...

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[nurb432]

I tend to agree, however it was a cute idea and could be taken somewhere if they actually get a writer and a producer.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[hey!]

And how is that any different to what Apple did - portraying PC as boring guy in a suit, Mac as hip and trendy, and then reeling off a load of assertions.

Confucius say, "In the land of the thick, the sledghammer counts as 'subtle'."

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[jawtheshark]

Well, so do I... In Dutch, French and German.... but in English it always morphs into Lin-nux. I don't know why, but lee-nucks doesn't work in English.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[hszp]

"Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough." She's gotta have big boobs.

Re:You tried to parod a humorous commercial?

[bryan1945]

"Just putting a cute woman on screen is not enough."

You must be new to /., correct?

Theora, even?

[Mateo_LeFou]

I'd like to see it, too, if there's a hot chick in it.

Re:Theora, even?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it's Theora.

Licensed for streaming only

[Mateo_LeFou]

I think you can get in deep caca for posting useful formats like MPG in teh intertubes

Right over their heads

[93 Escort Wagon]

Windows: "How long have you been standing there?"

Linux: "Um... a long time."

As soon as I watched that part, it was obvious - the implication is that "nobody's been even noticing". I like Linux; but I think there was a big shot of unintentional self-parody right there.

Re:Right over their heads

[a.phoenicis]

Heh... I also liked the "I'm Linux," says the hot chick, "and there are an estimated 30 millions Linux users..."

Man... Linux really gets around...

Just wait until Novell does one about viruses...

Re:Right over their heads

[dbcad7]

I think the implication is that PC and Mac are self absorbed in themselves and each other, and haven't noticed that Linux was there. That's the way I see it. You see it your way of course, and I am sure there are other takes on it.

The truth is of course, that both companies are well aware of Linux. That Apple chose to name the Windows guy "PC" kind of sucks because PC's do run Linux as well as Windows... I suppose it could be intentional, to kill two birds with one stone... but who knows.. I would guess a more accurate thing would have been to have "PC" morph into something different (Linux) although Linux also runs on other hardware (even Apple)

All that aside.. I thought the 2 "commercials" were as good as Apples.

Re:Right over their heads

[topham]

She has a lot more viruses than the real linux.

Re:Right over their heads

[Octorian]

I really like the spoofs on this site: http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/

They more accurately portray Linux as a uber-dork wearing a backpack, and *BSD as someone who looks almost the same (but is pissy about being confused with Linux). ...as I type this on my SuSE 10.2 desktop, connected to a network of Solaris and FreeBSD machines...

Re:Right over their heads

[master0ne]

i see a cheep Matrix style commercial comming with both mac and PC morphing into agents at some point in the commercial.... or not...

Re:Right over their heads

[Austerity Empowers]

That and the part while she can don new trends as people give them to her, underneath she's only mildly attractive to sex starved geeks.

Seriously, they could have found a hotter chick...

Re:Right over their heads

[WilliamSChips]

Actually, one of the ideas I had for a spoof on those would involve a Hugo Weaving-type character as a beowulf cluster. "The best thing about being me is that there are so many of me"

Re:Right over their heads

[master0ne]

now.... step 1: spoof cheesy apple commercial step 2: ???? step 3: profit!!! could step 2 be creating a botnet of agent computers, using a virus that plops the host OS into a virtual machine running on linux (agent smith distro) transparently....

Not as good as...

[computersareevil]

Good, but not as good as the IBM commercial from years ago, IMHO.

Re:Not as good as...

[CastrTroy]

That's a much better commercial than the Novell ones. I wish IBM would put out more commercials like this. Get the public aware of what linux is.

Re:Not as good as...

[computersareevil]

They did put out a bunch of other Linux commercials. Some of them are quite good, like the first result (and it's 'Lee-nus' not 'Lie-nus' you insensitive clod!), but I still like the original best. Gives me chills.

Re:Not as good as...

[einhverfr]

I actually thought they were all good.

The Mac-PC-Linux commecials were very accessible. I could hand them to many of my less savvy customers and they could get the points. They are accessible, funny, and very fun to watch.

The IBM commercial was fascinating and compelling. But I couldn't help get the impression that Linux was entirely passive in the commercial and not that interesting.

Re:Not as good as...

[ettlz]

Those IBM commercials were art, and showed what made Linux good and strong. On the other hand, I'd like to see the Linux community distance itself from these Mac parody commercials, and the whole Mac/Windows debate, as well as giving up on these silly in-fights and FUD-flinging contests with other certain Free-software projects. It's time the community showed a bit of aloofness and maturity and rose above what are really other people's wars.

Re:Not as good as...

[jawtheshark]

Funny, I'm pretty sure that in the first Novell ad, PC says "you've sure grown up fast".... I saw that exactly as a reference to the IBM ad. Of course, I might just be making up things.

Here is another one

[loconet]

Here is another clip wire didn't add

Yes, and each of these has a point

[i_should_be_working]

1st ad: Linux has been a viable alternative for quite some time. Just because you don't hear about it all the time doesn't mean it's new or that your company shouldn't use it.

2nd ad: Linux changes to suit the times. There's no waiting around for years for a new version.

3rd ad: Linux can do the things that Mac and Windows can. And can do it on any hardware.

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[sarahbau]

1st ad: Linux has been a viable alternative for quite some time. Being an alternative doesn't really give any incentive to switch. They need to show what's better about it.

2nd ad: Linux changes to suit the times. There's no waiting around for years for a new version. Constant upgrades aren't always a good thing. Major upgrades normally mean having to relearn interfaces. Updates are a different matter, and MS and Apple both provide updates quite regularly.

3rd ad: Linux can do the things that Mac and Windows can. And can do it on any hardware. Again this doesn't give any incentive to switch. If it only does the things Windows and MacOS can do, why not just keep using what you have? They need to show something that the others can't do, or can't do easily. As for running on any hardware, while the basic install might work, drivers are a different story. Windows drivers are pretty much guaranteed for any hardware. With Linux you could have problems with video, network, audio, and other drivers (I had to do a lot of hacking to get my video and audio drivers working in Ubuntu).

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[jlarocco]

Constant upgrades aren't always a good thing. Major upgrades normally mean having to relearn interfaces. Updates are a different matter, and MS and Apple both provide updates quite regularly.

Then use Debian. If you only want bug fixes, Linux is the only logical choice. Will Microsoft support Vista in 15 years? No. Will the source code for the current version of Linux be available in 15 years? Yes.

Again this doesn't give any incentive to switch. If it only does the things Windows and MacOS can do, why not just keep using what you have? They need to show something that the others can't do, or can't do easily. As for running on any hardware, while the basic install might work, drivers are a different story. Windows drivers are pretty much guaranteed for any hardware. With Linux you could have problems with video, network, audio, and other drivers (I had to do a lot of hacking to get my video and audio drivers working in Ubuntu).

Give me a break. For every piece of hardware you had to "hack" Linux to get working, I can tell you about hardware that I couldn't get working under Windows at all. Both operating systems have hardware incompatibilities, so it's not very interesting that you found one. Did you at least report a bug? Or do you just like bitching about it?

Besides, everybody knows drivers are the responsibility of the hardware manufacturers. Try blaming Windows for a system crash and within minutes you'll have half a dozen responses telling you the problem is shitty drivers from the manufacturer. The silver lining of Linux developers having to reverse engineer drivers is that the code gets scrutinized and held to the coding standards used throughout the kernel, so they tend to be well written and stable. Personally, I prefer Linux's stable drivers for limited hardware over Window's shit drivers for everything.

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[mackyrae]

No, number 2's point was that you can get whatever additions you want FOR FREE and people will SHARE apps with you and you can do that just fine, legally (whereas most Apple & MS products you CANT).

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[T-Ranger]

It is a Novell ad so:

Then use Debian. If you only want bug fixes, Linux is the only logical choice. Will Microsoft support Vista in 15 years? No. Will the source code for the current version of Linux be available in 15 years? Yes.

... More to the point, will Debian answer their phone about $VERSION_NOW in 15 years? Oh, right. Well, at least Novell will answer the phone for 5 years, which is about 2 more then MSFT, and 5 more then Debian.

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[master0ne]

funny the only problem i had was a toasted soundblaster sound card (that wouldne even work in windows) and a very nasty hack to get my PRINTER working... everything else was nice, but i had to chuckle that i couldnt get my NETWORK printer working correctly in linux (although it was a cheep Brother MFC series printer, it had built in NETWORK functionality, and still didnt work in linux without some nasty hacks) but atleast Brothers website provided me the tools and info i needed to go about doing it, no matter how horrible the documentation, i did manage to get it working (well the printer part anyway)...

Re:Yes, and each of these has a point

[SanityInAnarchy]

Major upgrades normally mean having to relearn interfaces. Updates are a different matter, and MS and Apple both provide updates quite regularly.

Let me put it this way: The Linux 2.2 kernel does still occasionally get patches. Most of us would rather be on 2.6, sure, but 2.2 has got to be at least 5-10 years old. Neither MS nor Apple provide regular updates for anything older than a certain point -- I imagine that's Panther for Apple and Win2K for MS.

The other point is, of course, that Vista and Leopard are bragging about all their major new features. Leopard is closest to the Linux way -- bunch of new features added, but most of the old stuff isn't changed arbitrarily, while Vista just rearranges control panels and such for no good reason.

The difference is, of course, you can get all this new stuff gradually and free, instead of all at once for $129.

If it only does the things Windows and MacOS can do, why not just keep using what you have?

Because the only way you could do that is to run Windows in a virtual machine on MacOS, assuming you have a version of Windows which lets itself be run in a virtual machine, and assuming you like wasting RAM. People complain about inconsistent UIs on Linux -- Wine/GTK/QT -- but that's nothing compared to actually trying to run two separate OSes.

Remember: It does both the things Windows does, and the things MacOS does, and some things neither of them do.

Windows drivers are pretty much guaranteed for any hardware.

Except when they aren't. And when they aren't, you can't do much about it.

Also: we're not just talking about some random peripheral. We're talking about ANY hardware. Sure, Windows Mobile runs on ARM devices, but I can run pretty much any desktop Linux environment on a PDA, to the extent that said PDA can actually provide the performance needed. You can claim that I'll have to strip it down to the point where it may as well be Windows Mobile, but that simply isn't true -- Windows Mobile is even more different from Windows XP/Vista as Windows XP is from Windows 98. You can strip XP down, but it will never run on your phone -- Linux will.

Same for old PPC Macs or anything else you want. ANY hardware. And it will look and feel the same, given the same input devices.

Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[khasim]

Mac drives onscreen in some trendy car (bug, hybrid, whatever). Pop music.

PC drives onscreen in a wood paneled station wagon with a bicycle the back and a pile of luggage strapped on top (with bits of shirt flapping in the breeze). Music plays, but cuts out and comes back in at the wrong speed.

Linux drives onscreen in a jeep.

Cut to Mac "Nice jeep".

Cut back to Linux in a limo. "I liked it, but right now I want this."

PC "How do you change so fast?"

Cut to Linux on a racing cycle, "I have lots of configuration options."

PC "I wish I did."

Linux (now driving a semi) "One day you might."

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[cgenman]

Mac and PC sit outside a doctor's office wearing white robes. Linux walks by, then turns around to look.

Mac and PC shuffle uncomfortably and look away.

"Hi mac, Hi PC."

"Oh, hi Linux" they mumble.

"What are you guys doing here?"

"Oh, I, Errrr..." they mumble for a few seconds.

"What's wrong?"

"Look" says Windows "I've got 97,467 viruses."

OSX and Linux both back away from Windows. "That's terrible" says Mac "How did that happen?"

"Years of old code, the rush to the market, some fast programming, you know. Aren't you here for the same?"

"Symantec said I should come get checked out. They think it's just a matter of time before I'm sick as a dog. Shouldn't you get tested too, Linux."

Linux, now seriously creeped out and edging away. "I've got thousands of people around the world checking me out and making sure I'm well built and healthy. And I'm gonna stay that way. So if you don't mind, I'll see you later."

They watch her go. Windows lifts his head to Mac "That could have gone better."

"Shut up."

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Lars T.]

Linux suddenly sits in a pile of rubish - "Well, you have to look out what you are doing."

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't work at ad agencies. The young women who played the part of linux should say "I've got thousands of people around the world checking me out and making sure I'm well built and healthy. And I'm gonna stay that way. So if you don't mind, I'll see you later." while talking about viruses. Are you kidding me? Normal viewers would automatically associate linux with unflattering names for women who were "checked by thousands" to make sure they are "well built". Sexual innuendo may sell products, but then again it may also sink it.

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux suddenly sits in a pile of rubish - "Well, you have to look out what you are doing."

The person who wrote this is CLEARLY a MICROSOFT SHILL!!!!!!

Anyone who questions linux is clearly in the pay of MS.

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Lars T.]

Oh shut up, Whiney Mac Fanboy.

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Anonymous Coward]

Mac fanboy? I run linux.

You're obviously an Apple shill then, no wonder you hate linux so much - Mac shill.

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Lars T.]

Who are you trying to kid, Whiney Linux RIAA Shill?

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[LinuxIsRetarded]

I like your idea, but it's not quite accurate. Consider this instead:

Mac drives onscreen in some trendy car (bug, hybrid, whatever). Pop music.

PC drives onscreen in a wood paneled station wagon with a bicycle the back and a pile of luggage strapped on top (with bits of shirt flapping in the breeze). Music plays, but cuts out and comes back in at the wrong speed.

Linux drives onscreen in a jeep.

Cut to Mac "Nice jeep".

Cut back to Linux in a limo. "I liked it, but right now I want this."

PC "How do you change so fast?"

Cut back to a Linux user in his parents' basement. "I just had to download a new window manager, figure out its dependencies, download them, compile them, compile the window manager for my specific distribution, edit 18 different configuration files, and... voilà!"

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Jesus_666]

SUSE Linux drives onscreen in some trendy hotrodded car that just barely resembles a stock model.

Debian Linux drives onscreen in a 1965 Oldsmobile Cutlass.

Gentoo Linux is sitting on the ground amidst a pile of half-assembled automobile parts, studying a construction plan with the caption emerge jeep.

SUSE: "Heh, nice cars. Debian, why don't you upgrade to a Vista?"

Debian: "How about you shove the Vista up your ass, you Microsoft-loving nonstandard piece of--"

SUSE: "Yeah, real cute. Yo, Gentoo! Maybe we could talk about how my car is better than yours some time. I mean, when you're done building it. Next February perhaps?"

Gentoo takes out a marker and prepends a USE="machinegun" to the caption of the construction plan.


Linux: Because we've got one hell of a community

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Jesus_666]

Hey, I've got the perfect slogan for that: "Linux: Really, really easy to get." ;)

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[master0ne]

sounds like someone tryed gentoo as their first distro, last time i checked, linux had very proficent package managers to deal with dependancies automagically, and that "compile" stuff, although its still a option, 99.9% of the people will opt for installing pre compiled binary packages.... check out ubuntu, or if you like kubuntu www.ubuntu.com or www.kubuntu.com ... package managment has come a LONG way in the last few years, and its VERY easy for a new guy to use (baring gentoo anyway... but i do like gentoo myself, i do keep a gentoo box running, i just dont think it will ever make it as a desktop replacment for joe sixpack...)

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

"Years of old code, the rush to the market, some fast programming, you know. Aren't you here for the same?"

I don't think that line quite fits. For one, it's too geeky. For two, it's too vindictive, especially when the whole premise is about friendly one-up-man-ship, and how the PC just doesn't compare. For three, anything that is wrong with the PC, he tries to gloss it over by pointing out the advantages to whatever the new change is, or else he assumes that everyone else has the same problem. He wouldn't ask them (since that would imply that he has some uncertainty on the matter).

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[electronerdz]

1. So the Linux woman gets naked. 2. ... I'm out of ideas.

Re:Option #2 - stripped down or bulked up.

[Scudsucker]

Symantec said I should come get checked out.

I would wager that most Mac users that know about Symantics' claims also know Symantics is full of shit.

Indeed not

[Dolda2000]

If you follow the link in the article to Novell's video page, you'll see they have them in Ogg/Theora format:

• Video 1
• Video 2
• Video 3

Eh

[Durandal64]

You know, someone could make a funny parody of the "Get a Mac" commercials; it's just that no one has. It seems like all the parodies are made by geeks who are upset about the originals, not creative people who can put a funny spin on them. All the parodies are basically big rants about why geeks don't like the originals. There's no subtlety involved at all. You can't parody a 30-second spot by making a 4-minute rant about how much the source sucks. You actually have to be clever. That's what the geeks making these things don't get.

Novell's ads aren't as bad, but really, what do they say? "Hey, Linux exists too"? So? When I'm car shopping, I know that Fiat exists too. Doesn't mean I consider it a viable option.

Re:Eh

[earnest murderer]

What makes a good parody is biting humor matched with commentary that is generally more truthful than the original. These ad's have neither of that.

The clay monkey switch ad? Hilarious, and the implication that platform advocacy is for monkeys is spot on.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3785934939 882600929

Gus's I used to be a gamer ad? Very nice, and very true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq3G_vqKmhI

Everything else I've seen has been pretty much rubbish. At best mildly funny but usually uncomfortably sincere.

There's something funny to be mined from the "Linux is a Chick" well, but it's pretty misogynistic and unflattering.

Re:Eh

[limecat4eva]

Don't look to dorks for subtlety. Especially not the kind of dorks who don't understand why people would rather use Macs than fuck around endlessly with AUTOEXEC.BAT.

Re:Eh

[jchernia]

The Wii vs PS3 commercial was definitely a funny parody.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljZOHnZNaBc

Re:Eh

[toadlife]

Everything else I've seen has been pretty much rubbish. At best mildly funny but usually uncomfortably sincere. You didn't like this one?

http://www.toadlife.net/stuff/forum_stuff/crash_di fferent_divx.avi

Re:Eh

[jb.hl.com]

Especially not the kind of dorks who don't understand why people would rather use Macs than fuck around endlessly with AUTOEXEC.BAT.

I don't understand why anyone would fuck around with AUTOEXEC.BAT at all, to be honest, considering it hasn't been in much use since Windows 2000. ;)

Anyway, back on topic; no parodies as such but this article is a hoot, even though I personally don't agree with it (I'll be picking up an iMac for myself in a few hours, wish me luck :D)

Re:Eh

[Anonymous Coward]

To me it just screamed "Wii=shallow".

Re:Eh

[Araneidae]

Must be talking about a version of the Mac I've ever seen: "It's easy to shut down without doing anying ... poof! Your application has gone and you've shut down". I have never seen OSX do that: maybe he's talking about OS9 (which I'm glad I never used) or something even older?

I went to install Software Updates on my Mother's iBook (she's on dialup) ... and her up time was 430 days! So, no, I don't think there were any unfriendly shutdowns.

Re:Eh

[toadlife]

maybe he's talking about OS9 He is.

Re:Eh

[earnest murderer]

That was pretty good, dangerously close to sincere but pretty good.

As a battered consumer of OS 9 I can certainly sympathize, even 10.4 still has a lot of that "user in the passenger seat" abusive spouse mentality.

But it's less of a parody than an anti-ad in the same style the key difference being that he's mocking apple rather than the advertisements. Splitting hairs? Probably. Thanks though I'd long forgotten that one.

Re:Eh

[rrohbeck]

A little offtopic (no Linux, only Mac+PC), but check out this one.
Lots of hilarious Mac ad spoofs there.

Yawn

[Kruid]

Still doesn't make me forget who is doing the sellling.

So this is what happened to the money from MS

[jeevesbond]

All the directors of Novell sat around after the Microsoft deal. Twiddling their thumbs, wondering what to do with the cheque for $308 million they'd just recieved. 'I've got it! Let's make some satirical ads,' one of them probably suggested.

'Then we'll all give ourselves massive bonuses, go on holiday and think up of more ways to sell Free software to Microsoft.' Another may have mentioned.

'Ooook!' Ballmer might have remarked from a corner of the room: indicated he'd like another banana, please.

I'm not saying it's a good or bad use of the money, but we can all see where some of it is going. My only question is: does she run GNU/Linux?

Re:So this is what happened to the money from MS

[Anonymous Coward]

come on man...these were low budget for Brainshare...never intended to hit the masses. hate the ms deal, but honestly, some of these commercials are funny...and good to see for the linux lover at heart.

Novell's Linux...

[Jay Maynard]

...is better looking than I am.

Re:Novell's Linux...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're that TronGuy! Dude you're the coolest!

They sucked at that, then.

[khasim]

1st ad: Linux has been a viable alternative for quite some time. Just because you don't hear about it all the time doesn't mean it's new or that your company shouldn't use it.

Cheese has been around for a long time, too. Don't be a wuss. Say why you're better than the other two.

2nd ad: Linux changes to suit the times. There's no waiting around for years for a new version.

Putting on a jacket isn't that impressive. Particularly when Linux is behind Windows in new hardware support. If Vista hasn't been replaced by 2010, a new toy I buy then will still work with Vista. But may not work with Linux.

3rd ad: Linux can do the things that Mac and Windows can. And can do it on any hardware.

This is the worst of the lot.

Given that interpretation, you end up with two Linux's on the screen (cute woman and fat guy) and one Mac. Not a good message there.

The point of the original series of ads was to show how PC's (and Windows) SUCKED compared to a Mac.

Emphasize Linux's strong points. Show how Windows and Macs suck when compared to Linux.

Re:They sucked at that, then.

[mackyrae]

1. Everybody's heard of cheese. Haven't you ever found out about something and gone "wow, I wish I'd known about this sooner! I can't believe it's been here all this time, and I didn't know about it"? That's the point.

2. Can you get free upgrades from XP to Vista? Howabout from Tiger to Jaguar? No? Upgrades on Linux are free, and everything is shared, not bought and then kept locked away.

3. The Mac was running Linux too. That's why he sort of closed the screen, trying to keep Linux from seeing it.

Re:They sucked at that, then.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The point of the original series of ads was to show how PC's (and Windows) SUCKED compared to a Mac."

They failed at that then. The impression I got was that apple users were arrogant, deceptive, little pricks.

Re:They sucked at that, then.

[electronerdz]

1.: Like cheesecake. It took me 18 years before I discovered its wonders.

Hi, I'm Microsoft's mouth piece

[mrmikedee]

If Novell was serious about being the 3rd option in the Apple v. PC debate they would hire professionals who could make decent commercials. These Novell "parodies" are just imitations of true creative genius (Apple's PR people). Make something that is original ffs.

Re:Hi, I'm Microsoft's mouth piece

[QuantumHobbit]

The whole point of this is to create a viral sensation. Viral sensations seem to work best when its a parody and appears to be done by amateurs. And guess what? It worked. I've seen this reported on nearly every tech site (of course ./ is one of the last) and Novell hardly had to spend any money. Grated they're mostly preaching to the quire, but you get what you pay for.

Re:Hi, I'm Microsoft's mouth piece

[Anonymous Coward]

choir. I know it's free, but it sounds better when it's spelled correctly.

Re:Option #3 - SELinux

[khasim]

A little bit tougher ...

PC is easy. Have the Man in Black doing the routine from the regular commercials.
MiB: "Message inbound, it says it's from Mom."
PC: "Mom? Great! Let me read it."
PC then switches voice and gestures (like in the "identity theft" commercials).

Mac: "Wow, that was weird. His security guy didn't save him."

Linux appears as cute woman in normal attire.
Linux's clothes morph into Agent clothes from The Matrix.

Mac: "How did you do that?"

Linux: "External security is not sufficient. You must become the security."

MOD PARENT UP

[Carthag]

not offtopic it all, it refers to the fucking video referenced it the topic

Really?

[WindBourne]

You have proof that there are not 30 million end users? I would like to see something that shows that.

In addition, I know women who are better looking than her who are doing Linux, but I am not sure what that has to do with anything.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I somehow doubt that babe has had 30 million 'end users', but I'm sure she's had a few.

Okay....

[FooAtWFU]

I like Linux. And I like girls. And I like girls who use Linux. (I know several, one of whom is also incidentally the most amazing person in the world, though mostly for other reasons.)

But those ads were just, um, well, stupid.

v.v

Re:Okay....

[StormReaver]

"But those ads were just, um, well, stupid."

Thank you, Plato, for that enlightening discourse.

Even though I liked the videos, I think Novell totally dropped the ball by failing to be at all original. The girl's really cute, but I hope these videos never air anywhere. Parodying a competitor's commercials in Novell's own commercials is a very bad choice, and reflects poorly on Novell.

Computer operating systems must have certain similarities as demanded by market forces. That is why the three major operating systems look so similar on the front end: market forces demand it. Commercial marketing, on the other hand, has no such constraints. In fact, marketing abhors imitation. So Novell, don't be a marketing copycat.

I liked the "Geek My Sled" videos, though they took way too long to get to the point. Of course, none of those videos are meant to air on TV, but rather are meant to spread through the Internet.

Someone in another thread mentioned that Novell should hire professional marketers instead of doing the spots themselves. Even assuming that Novell did the videos in-house (unlikely), professional marketers miss more than they hit. Remember IBM's abstract Linux commercials several years ago? Those were truly painful to watch, as they were trying to shove Linux into a market it wasn't nearly ready to enter (the average consumer desktop).

Kubuntu 6.10 is very nearly ready for a mass market, but it still has a couple show stopping problems. The biggest one (and all Linux distributions have this problem. Fix it for one, and it's fixed for all) is that sound is not properly mixed at the kernel level. Unless your audio hardware has multiple dedicated audio channels (like the Sound Blaster Live!), only one application at a time can use /dev/dsp. Run KDE, and non-KDE media applications are silent (and vice-versa).

Notice you never see the hot chick's back ...

[DrJimbo]

If she turned around you would see the knife that Novell plunged into her back when they sold out to Microsoft.

Re:Notice you never see the hot chick's back ...

[Oswald]

Actually, I suspect if she turned around I would see her ass. Maybe after a dozen viewings or so I might notice the knife.

The ass first, though, definitely.

Oh dear GOLLY

[malevolentjelly]

That was painful to watch. Open source community, either have web talent do it, or get some money together if you want decent ads.

That was awkward. Ouch.

All they expressed is that Linux exists, and is 'cute'.

Mac should have revealed GNU/BSD technologies at its core by lifting up his shirt and showing a mutated semi-open-source Kuato!!

"KILL ME..."

Mac: Not today! Not ever! Ha-ha!

Re:Oh dear GOLLY

[Anonymous Coward]

This is perhaps the first comment on Slashdot that has made me laugh out loud in five, maybe six years. God bless you for the Kuato reference.

Re:Oh dear GOLLY

[Anonymous Coward]

No,you got it wrong,Linux should do it.

Re:Option #3 - SELinux

[pallmall1]

For cryin' out loud, man, get a life.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS!

[colourmyeyes]

So is the self-mutiliation aspect of "the entire Apple experience" optional?

Quality - Superior ?

[udippel]

So sad. I am no MAC fanboy.
Still, the quality of the Quicktime beats the meagre MPGs hands down.
Had Novell had any senses, they would have offered a technical quality at par or even better than Apple.
So sad. Linux would have deserved better.
Maybe Novell not.

---
I am not indecisive. I only can't make up my mind.

Re:Quality - Superior ?

[udippel]

I wonder if the moderator who modded me 'Troll' has had a chance to compare the ads from Apple and Novell.
The Apple ads *are* crisp and the Novell ones are comparatively blurry.
No idea what makes this hint a 'Troll'.

Just have a look yourself.
Am I the only one who considers this to constitute a hidden advantage for Apple ?

I call Bullshit.

[Upaut]

You know, someone could make a funny parody of the "Get a Mac" commercials; it's just that no one has.

There are plenty of fantastic parodies of the "Get a mac" commercial. Many of which sell macs better then the original...

Be it in comic format: http://leasticoulddo.com/comic/20060815

Or video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&mode=re lated&search=

Their are even parodys depicting religion: http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/get-a-mac-ads-the-c hristian-version-220219.php

In fact, this has got to be the most parodied ad I have ever seen...

Re:I call Bullshit.

[PygmySurfer]

Or video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-L-0s-7-Z0&mode=re lated&search=

I don't know that this is funny, but their Linux representation is much more realistic than the stupid Novell parodies.

Re:I call Bullshit.

[Durandal64]

When I say "parody", I don't mean "inspired by". I mean a spoof on the ads meant to make fun of them. Every one of the "Get a Mac" parodies I've seen that are meant to make fun of the originals has basically sucked.

Never pronounces SUSE

[TheCoelacanth]

I noticed that she never pronounces SUSE so I'm assuming that means that even Novell doesn't know how to pronounce it.

Re:Never pronounces SUSE

[Chandon Seldon]

It's entirely clear how to pronounce it - just like the guy in the video "German Air Traffic Control" does.

http://www.novell.com/video/ (Sixth video down)

Re:Never pronounces SUSE

[A_Non_Moose]

I noticed that she never pronounces SUSE so I'm assuming that means that even Novell doesn't know how to pronounce it.

I thought similarly, instead of the lulaby music, should have been Simon and Garfunkel's "wake up little
SUSE/suzie".

Re:Never pronounces SUSE

[AstrumPreliator]

I'm just going to point out that some people, including myself, pronounce it "soo-zee" as in the name Susie. Susie is of course a female name and the actor representing linux in these parody ads is female. I just found that to be a bit of a coincidence. Hopefully they make more and she reveals her name ;).

How most of the world really sees Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an even better Mac/PC/Linux video. Truth hurts.

Re:How most of the world really sees Linux

[zakezuke]

Here's an even better Mac/PC/Linux video. Truth hurts.

Here is what I would consider to be my experance.

Re:How most of the world really sees Linux

[atlep]

Here's an even better Mac/PC/Linux video. Truth hurts.

Didn't hurt at all. Just funny. ;)

funniest moment:

[djdavetrouble]

Leopard !

-pure hilarity !

Obligatory

[dreamchaser]

I really want to fsck her filesystems and transfer my data into her sockets.

Read between the lines

[Nymz]

It's obvious that GNU/Linux is a woman.
She's high maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no matter what goes wrong... it's your fault.


It's funny, please don't mod me down, just be content that I'll be going straight to hell.

Re:Read between the lines

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit, parent is the most insightful comment on /. in the last 6 months....

Re:Read between the lines

[Hooya]

and it'll be ages before she'll go down

Re:Read between the lines

[nschubach]

...and it's a bitch to get her to play games! (unfortunately)

Re:Read between the lines

[Anonymous Coward]

She's high maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no matter what goes wrong... it's your fault.

Ah, but if my Linux system breaks, it doesn't just claim that "nothing is wrong" and expect me to guess the nature of the problem. It provides me with useful information for debugging. And when I do resolve the problem, I can make the system forget that there was ever a problem, so it doesn't bring it up again when I'm trying to sleep(1).

Apparently, these things are only possible with an actual woman if you can get her to give you the root password.

Re:Read between the lines

[jawtheshark]

Married too, eh? :-(

Full version?

[Klowner]

What the heck did they cut out the part where hot Novell Linux girl takes a $20 from the PC for certain favors out behind the shed?

(frackin sellouts..)

A girl is linux? no no...

[SirDrinksAlot]

It should be Tommy Chong (of Cheech and Chong) playing the part of Linux. Then this would be more believable.

Re:A girl is linux? no no...

[dtfinch]

He started his own video blog on YouTube like only a week ago. Though I haven't seen any comments on Linux yet.
http://youtube.com/profile?user=citizenchong

That's better

[dtfinch]

She's much more appealing than the Linux Guy we had before.

Re:That's better

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh, what about bsd?

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6585/pcmacbsdsq 9.jpg

I love it!

[Saint Stephen]

I tried to show this chick how much better my perl scripts and abcde were than her iTunes. She didn't get it. Come on ladies that get it, speak up.

Already been done

[giminy]

Here

GECKO!!!

[Spookticus]

heh......Samurai Gecko..... mhmmmm....samurai gecko and hot linux lady....now that would of made a good commercial

Who plays the part?

[spaceyhackerlady]

Tommy Chong? That's...errr...interesting.

One thought experiment of mine has been to recast the Get a Mac ads with two women, rather than two men. Who would play PC? Who would play Mac? Other markets (U.K., Japan) have done their own versions, but always with two men.

The first that came to my mind were Candace Bergen as PC, and Paula Abdul as Mac. YMMV.

...laura

If you think that was funny...

[Adeptus_Luminati]

Check these out...

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8pyTl2JP6Y&NR - MAC User experiences...
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCmUAWn_DlU&NR [NOT APROPRIATE TO LISTEN TO AT WORK] A little crude, but funny as hell.
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxPXFptzQRY - For gamers
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-KWYYIY4jQ - 2 BRAND new APPLE PRODUCTS UNVEILED HERE!!!!!!
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8lW8ndh5BU&NR [NOT APROPRIATE TO LISTEN TO AT WORK] - Gay networking
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc4oP_ITqMc&NR [NOT APROPRIATE TO LISTEN TO AT WORK] - Gaming
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ&NR MAC vs PC vs Linux ... too funny.
8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGxRhRinsBw&mode=re lated&search= The Southpark Spoof
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8HNyiNbXmk&mode=re lated&search= Porn
10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU&eurl=ht tp%3A%2F%2Fblog.wired.com%2Fcultofmac%2F2007%2F03% 2Fnovell_launches.html Novell
11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkFQVcl62qo&mode=re lated&search= Linux?!

Novell Sold Out

[Anonymous Coward]

Please give me a break!!! Novell isn't for Linux anymore. They are in bed with Micro$oft now. It's the Benedict Arnold company and they think a few ads can distance them now from the M$ deal.

Linux is a chick?

[stratjakt]

Now I know why you slashbots are always whacking off about it in here.

I thought you were just a bunch of nerds the whole time, I apologize.

Hey Linux, SHOW US YER TITS!!!! Woooo

Microsoft is also spoofing Mac ads

[Door in Cart]

We'll see if these Mac ad sppofs can attract anything close to the hundreds of thousands of YouTubers who view TrueNuff's pro-Microsoft spoofs. Judging from the comments, few if any of these people recognize these "sketch comedies" as Microsoft advertisements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQECwm3erEs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFAJDbV9Vfs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuVjpZtXGME

My version

[jb.hl.com]

Mac: Hi, I'm a Mac.
PC: And I'm a PC.
Linux: (played by stereotypical nerd) Hi, I'm Linux. I don't like anyone. Go away.
Ubuntu: And I'm Linux too.
Mac: You're just the other Linux with a dress and some concealer. It's rather disturbing, actually.
PC: PCs can dual boot Linux and Windows too, you know. Come, Ubuntu, let me extend an embrace to you.
Mac: Are you going to put down the fire extinguisher first?
PC: No. No I am not.

With that, BSD walks in and kicks everyone in the crotch. Fin.

Re:My version

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

That was actually really funny. Thanks!

The question that won't go away

[Anonymous Coward]

How do I get root on that linux?!?!

(Sorry... I know, I know...)

Re:Option #3 - SELinux

[ceejayoz]

No offense, but I don't think Apple's ad agency is exactly quivering in their boots right now.

I got 'yer PC v Mac v Linux right here

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ

and now THAT'S accurate!

BSD: It's worse than Linux

[SpecialAgentXXX]

Oh, that was too funny! Watch the other ones first then "Security."

idweeb

[Animats]

You know, someone could make a funny parody of the "Get a Mac" commercials;

I was thinking briefly of creating "idweeb.org", where people could post pictures of dweebs wearing white-corded earphones. The domain is available. Go for it if you're interested.

Hello-o-o-o-o Nurse Linux!

[Nymz]

obligitory Animaniacs reference

What do they say?

[einhverfr]

1) Linux is an option and has been for a while (it is just an intro to the campaign)
2) See? Sharing is good! It means you always have the latest cool stuff with Linux!
3) Linux is so cool everyone is switching. Yes, you can run it on your PC or your Mac.

linux is a woman?

[c6gunner]

Let's see....cheap...."open"....and has serious dependency issues. Plus she's pretty much impossible to understand, and has a multiple personality disorder. Great. I don't think I'll ever be THAT drunk!

Re:linux is a woman?

[Anonymous Coward]

> cheap...."open"....and has serious dependency issues. Plus she's
> pretty much impossible to understand, and has a multiple personality
> disorder.

Yup, that's women for 'ya. /ducks

Wow. Lameness of the highest levels.

[stewbacca]

Very lame. These videos go to show how good the Apple commercials really are.

Immitation and flatery

[Anonymous Coward]

Another set of great parodies, getting to be a lot of these...all based on something Apple started. Art truly reflects life.

If Novell thinks this will win people back...

[erroneus]

... they're probably right. :) I liked it!!!! :)

It's not about any one Linux distro after all. (Just saw the first two...)

These adds are much like Linux.

[jellomizer]

Copied from someone elses ideas.
Done in a way that it would look as close as possible.
But still missing subtile elements that actually make it good.

Is passible but still not quite right. Just like Linux attempt to make a desktop system.

The source

[DrYak]

You have proof that there are not 30 million end users? I would like to see something that shows that.

The source material. It's not an actual reliable source. But it offers some acceptable guesstimate.
Unlike other counting means (counting user agents visiting websites, hoping linux users will answer to a survey, etc) this tries to take account of "invisible" users in their estimation (browser with tweaked user-agents, or huge part of users who don't report themeselves to surves and so on).

Here are two articles explaining their estimations : 1, 2.

It's not perfect, but it's still an information we may consider.

Still image

[kingturkey]

There's a still too: http://bp3.blogger.com/_pNJFZtinpKY/Rc_OgMy2aeI/AA AAAAAAAPM/zoEDK9sJWH8/s1600-h/Mac_linux.jpg

It's time to face facts

[DiamondGeezer]

If Linux were as hot as the woman in the videos, no geeks would be running Linux for fear of multiple stuckdown keys and shortcircuits caused by drooling.

The greatest problem is that the Novell ads are simply not funny enough. They need a couple of John Hodgmans as a counterpoint.

Besides which, since Novell sold out to the Great Satan (according to some Slashdot zealots), Linux should be represented by someone in rags running Debian (and permanently late catching up)

make a pr0n version

[Anonymous Coward]

where Linux accepts to fcuk with Leopard but not for Vista, for he's probably full of viruses ;)

I like this one better than Novell's anyway...

[argent]

Hi Jay! Soon as I saw this topic I just *knew* what was coming.

I like BSD better, myself. Though of course BSD's already shacking up with Mac...

Nah, Tron Guy works for Linux...

[argent]

It's the BSD geeks who really need to worry.

John Philip SUSE

[tepples]

I noticed that she never pronounces SUSE so I'm assuming that means that even Novell doesn't know how to pronounce it. For their information, wiki says it's pronounced like Sousa.

Re:John Philip SUSE

[Creepy Crawler]

I always thought it as Sauza. Cause you need a lot of it to deal with YAST.

Bugger Suse linux. hated it since their version 5.3

Drag 'n Drop v. Terminal

[cenonce]

These commercials would be more amusing if I wasn't on my third hour of trying to get Novell's very own Groupwise to run on my Ubuntu Linux system. With my MacBook, it was drag, drop and run. With Linux, it has been:

1) install Java from Sun's website (b/c the one with Groupwise is "flakey")

2) install alien so I can convert an RPM to Deb package

3) symlink the groupwise JRE folder to the Sun JRE

4) run Groupwise, read the errors for missing librarys

5) run Synaptic

6) find the missing libraries (or the package you might think the libraries are in)

7) repeat #6 and see if you have fixed it or there are new errors

So the pick of a girl to represent Linux is entirely appropriate. My install of Groupwise has hit all of the stereotypes: "shopping" around the internet trying to find the perfect dress (i.e., version of JRE), "moving" JRE all over the filesystem (like hanging a picture or moving the sofa around the house), trying to "read" into how Linux is feeling by going into Terminal and looking at error logs, "guess" at which flowers (packages) are the rights ones to make it feel better!

Not that great, but this one is

[mergy]

Just a picture, but very funny nonetheless.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/adwatch/linux-joins-the -mac-vs-pc-ads-235468.php

Not as good as the PS3 vs. wii video

[Dacelo Gigas]

A better spoof of the PC vs. Mac video is on google videos :

PS3 vs. wii

apples and oranges.

[cabazorro]

The PC guy is an X86 Box with Windows software on it.
The Mac guy is a PPC or Intel Apple box with OS X on it.

Linux should be the huge bin with
Salvation Army clothes and the
mac guy and the pc guy digging through it.

I Kidd!

[Domo-Sun]

Another reason women are a good Linux analogy is lack of direction. And boobs.

it wasn't BSD, it was worse

[ChipMonk]

It looks like someone has already beat you to it. Sort of.

I can only wonder ...

[udippel]

... how the relationship between Microsoft and Novell will develop after the third and IMHO funniest of the clips (I had laughing tears).

Microsoft had bribed Novell into implicitely accepting the notion of an existence of some Microsoft Intellectual Property in Linux.
And in that third clip, PC admits to running Linux after a brief and fluffy denial.

I can't believe that Redmond will be amused.

Third ad was best.

[twitter]

3rd ad: Linux can do the things that Mac and Windows can. And can do it on any hardware.

This is the worst of the lot. Given that interpretation, you end up with two Linux's on the screen (cute woman and fat guy) and one Mac. Not a good message there.

That would be three, but who's counting?

This was the best of the three adds. The story is that free software does all things for all people, if you give it a chance, and is nothing to be snotty about. Overall, that's a much nicer message than either M$ or Mac have put out.

benefits of windows

[baomike]

>
and be used by it.
see:
http://isc.sans.org/index.html

Gozi trojan anyone.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this male or female?

Whore!

[twitter]

It's obvious that GNU/Linux is a woman. She's high maintenance, expects everything to be given to her for free, and no matter what goes wrong... it's your fault.

Sounds awful, I suggest you try another distribution and support group.

Stay away from Windoze though, she's all that but is only interested in your money. She looks pretty from a distance but stinks up close from years of neglect and terrible diseases. Inside, she is filled with malice and hatred for her users and seldom does all that's promissed. An honest and open relationship with your peers is far preferable to this kind of double dealing.

It ought not have been a girl, that Linux Girly

[udippel]

It ought to have been a Gnu

... or a GNU !

would have been fun just as well !

PC vs Mac vs Linux vs BSD

[argent]

Let's put this into perspective, shall we?

One thing they got right...

[catmistake]

Linux is a hot bitch... and periodically completely fucked.
Let us all remember,
Linux is for users that hate Windows, OS X is for users that love UNIX.

Re:One thing they got right...

[Ash-Fox]

OS X is for users that love UNIX.

Forking, IPC etc. on OS X are rather resource-expensive, this is not compliant with the ideals of UNIX.

Menu selection on Mac trackpad

[superposed]

Actually, since you don't really need to aim, you can get to the top with a quick twitch of the finger -- trackpad acceleration takes care of the rest. On my MacBook Pro, I consistently use these finger movements to hit menu items (e.g., for Save As...):

1) One quick flick on the trackpad to get the pointer near or into the menubar
2) Move at medium speed to the menu I want (with a single diagonal upward movement, moving the pointer along the top edge of the screen)
3) Click and hold on the menu title (File)
4) Sweep finger quickly down until it is close to my menu item (usually one stroke)
5) Move the finger more slowly until I am right on the menu item (Save As...)
6) Release the mouse button

Because they are U-shaped, all of these movements can often be completed together without lifting my finger from the trackpad, or with only one lift. All of this takes no more than a second or two, because the only close tracking I have to do is moving horizontally to the File menu after I reach the top of the screen, and fine tuning to hit "Save As..." once I'm nearly there. I imagine this is similar to the effort needed to navigate a context menu, and slightly less than a window-top menu in Windows. Empirically, all of these must be fairly close; otherwise people who have tried more than one approach would have a universally strong preference for one or the other.

Re:Menu selection on Mac trackpad

[mackyrae]

Your cursor keeps moving? If I flick my trackpad, it generally goes a couple hundred pixels then stops.

Re:Menu selection on Mac trackpad

[superposed]

Your cursor keeps moving? If I flick my trackpad, it generally goes a couple hundred pixels then stops. I should have been more precise about this. If I want to move my cursor up to the menu, I make one quick stroke up to the top of the trackpad (I called it a flick, but then as I was writing I realized that my finger never leaves the trackpad). Usually my mouse reaches the top of the screen before my finger goes off the top of the trackpad, in which case, I can switch immediately into a slower stroke to find the specific menu title and run down to the specific menu item. Sometimes my finger goes off the trackpad before I reach the menubar (e.g., if the cursor starts out low on the screen and/or my finger starts out high on the trackpad). But even then, the first stroke gets near the top, and I can usually complete the whole menu selection with the next stroke (up to the menu title and down to the menu item).

I can reliably get about 700 pixels of vertical motion from that first stroke, which seems like plenty for this. (I hadn't noticed before, but I can do the whole thing in one stroke more reliably if I'm editing text in the middle of the screen instead of along the very bottom.) The key seems to be to start low on the trackpad, and move decisively to the top (i.e., quickly, but without removing your finger). This works for side-to-side movement too -- I can generally hit any edge of the screen in one quick stroke. For what it's worth, the "tracking speed" on my MacBook Pro is set slightly below the center of the scale (tickmark number 5 out of 10)

She's not *that* good looking

[r_jensen11]

Or maybe it's because I'm surrounded by people that are better looking than her that my bar is set considerably high.... Thank god for universities and fields of study where people know that how they look is important to prospective clients and employers.

Linux on a PC

[Sir_Lewk]

...bad mental image. :)

Ah Gurl?

[k1e0x]

Hmm... alright.. I guess.. but umm..

I would have always thought Linux would be like a army, or marine or special forces or something, ready to scale walls and preform under pressure. but not exactly "nice" about it.

False Advertising

[Anonymous Coward]

They should've showed Linux as a fat guy with an old M:TG tee shirt and cheetos dust in his beard.

Except OS X...

[3choTh1s]

isn't open source. Damn it. Someone get to work on that so that all my dreams can come true.

That's just it!

[SanityInAnarchy]

Next commercial, if they can find a hotter chick, it would be the perfect time to say "I'm Linux, too!"

Be a perfect introduction to distros and why they're a good thing.

Re:Option #3 - SELinux

[Evil Pete]

Hmm. That last line is very nice and catchy indeed.

Second Video Could Have Been Better

[MrMunkey]

I think the second video was the best, but rather than just say "Yeah, people help us keep up with the times" why not have her change outfits to show that if you don't like Gnome, use KDE, Fluxbox, Xfce, etc. That would have made the video cooler.

I still like the quote about Vista staying the same for 6 or so year. That was priceless :)

Dock placement?

[Cybrex]

I also find the dock very irritating; on a small screen, the fixed menu and dock make a wide screen even shorter

Out of curiosity, were you leaving it at the bottom of the screen? If so then I completely see where you're coming from, but there's a very easy solution- move the Dock to the left edge of the screen.

I love OS X and am actually pretty fond of the Dock, but for the life of me I can't figure out why Apple uses such a horrible default configuration. Out of the box your complaints are dead on- it uses up too much screen real estate in a terrible location. When I sit down at a new machine, the first things I do are move the Dock to the left side, make it smaller, and add shortcuts to the Applications and Utilities folders to it. It requires just a bit of window adjustment the first time you launch an app after making the changes, but afterward the app remembers your preferred window configuration.

My primary machine is a 12" PowerBook, so I'm all about conserving space. I also frequently plug it it into a large external monitor, and have it configured to have the menu bar appear on the external monitor, which solves the "where is my menu?" problem for me. YMMV.

Cheers!

Re:Dock placement?

[zsau]

Out of curiosity, were you leaving it at the bottom of the screen?

I have tried locking it to the bottom-left corner of the screen, going along the left. This helped, but my problems with Mac OS X's user interface were more extensive than just the Dock, so it hasn't stopped me running Debian on Apple hardware, and won't. (The problem with this is that it means only the trash is in a constant place; better still than having nothing in a constant place as per default, but I would like it better if the Dock was only for launching applications, not for everything.)

I love OS X and am actually pretty fond of the Dock, but for the life of me I can't figure out why Apple uses such a horrible default configuration.

It looks better. Even though (because?) it's less intrusive along the side, it doesn't have that nice symmetrical photogenic look Apple uses to sell.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS!

[WilliamSChips]

If you don't mutilate yourself, you are a switcheur and you should GTFO.

Re:ATTN: SWITCHEURS!

[WilliamSChips]

Yes.