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DoD to Put Internet Router in Space
narramissic writes "ITworld is reporting that the Department of Defense plans to launch in the first quarter of 2009 a satellite-based router to deliver military communications. Satellite operator Intelsat will manage the three-year Internet Routing In Space (IRIS) project, while Cisco will provide IP networking software for the on-board router. After testing, the satellite will be available for commercial use. From the article: 'Potential nonmilitary benefits of the IRIS program include the ability to route IP (Internet Protocol) traffic between satellites in space in much the same way packets are moved on the ground, reducing delays, saving on capacity and offering greater networking flexibility, Lloyd Wood, space initiatives manager in the Global Defense, Space & Security division of Cisco, said Thursday.'"
Well, the Army is getting routed in Iraq, might as well get a head start on getting routed in space as well.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
"From the article: 'Potential nonmilitary benefits of the IRIS program include the ability to route IP (Internet Protocol) traffic between satellites in space in much the same way packets are moved on the ground, reducing delays, saving on capacity and offering greater networking flexibility, Lloyd Wood, space initiatives manager in the Global Defense, Space & Security division of Cisco, said Thursday.'"
You forgot greater security.
Before long the rest of the world will be demanding that the United States cease control of it's satellite routers to an NGO so that "one single country isn't in charge of the internets".
Someone HAS to have put a router in space before. Not for this particular application mind you, but I'd be shocked if no packet ever got routed while in space.
Now, who will be the first company to admit they got pwnd in space?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Can't wait til the hackers of the world try to hack into that one. I wonder what laws would apply? Are there any "space" laws per se?
A bunch of soldiers were hoping to be on the next packet back to the USA but they got a "no route to host, try again in 3 months" error message.
Yes I know it's off-topic but laugh, it's funny.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Indeed, what if routing packets over satellite becomes that much cheaper than underwater fiber that it replaces it entirely and the country controlling those satellites can shutdown a nation's access to the internet on a whim?
What kind of bandwidth are we talking here? but I guess the better question is what routing protocol is it going to use, EIGRP? OSPF? BGP?
In a world of acronyms, the words are the real victims.
Does this mean the information will have to pass through a series of carbon nanotubes?
traceroute is going to be more interesting.
"Piter, too, is dead."
Username:
Password: admin
The DoD aren't smart enough to change the default password.
Really, Drink or Die is putting a router in space? Is this part of some off-planet hosting scheme?
Twinstiq, game news
... doesn't matter if the routers are milspec or not. Speed of light is speed of light.
Speaking of which, how DO they manage "realtime" data on that w/o the lag? It wouldn't exactly be true realtime if ~250ms delay keeps chucking in there. While that may be no biggie now, I can see where that would/could be a factor as real battlefields become just as data-dependant as the game ones. (cue lots of "haha, you got pwned by the Chinese!" jokes here, but seriously... I wonder how they're going to eventually get around that; the physics would be gnarly at best...)
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Think seconds, not milliseconds.
It's a lot easier for our New Martian Overlords to intercept and disrupt our space-based routers than those on the ground.
Anyone wanna help me rip my record collection?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Yes, but that's irrelevant.
The article didn't say it was going to be in geostationary orbit. Don't assume that just because a geostationary satellite internet satellite has 650ms pings that all satellites will.
A satellite could orbit as low as 100 miles. The latency could be a few ms.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
Piiiiinnngs iiiiiin Spaaaaaaace!
.... the SSID will be Linksys right?
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
That will be great, until some script kiddy decides to pwnz0r the sat link ...
= Grow a brain...
TFA said the existing system involves
source - satellite#1 - ground-based router - satellite#2 - destination
The new system will be
source - satellite #1 - space router - satellite #2 - destination
or even better
source - space router - destination
Depending on where the satellite is, you may have just shaved a few tenths of a second off the one-way trip.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
That's going to take a lot of cat5 cable. They might as well rig up that space elevator everyone keeps talking about to it.
I hope DoD can afford to pay for SSH license to manage the router.
Cisco cares about security as much as the next guy (M$).
One small step for a LAN, one giant leap for wifi.
So how are they going to build a series of tubes in space?
Full Tilt
I guess whatever space-thingers that DirectPC and other satellite services bounce off aren't routers?
What's the distinction, some NASA geek 'splain please.
Is this like packets being routed like usa-satellite-satellite-satellite-africa?
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
I guess I'll have to step up and take one for the team.
In Soviet Russia, router launches you!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
As one satellite pings the router that's passing below in a different orbit:
...
geostat1# ping spacerouter1
Pinging spacerouter1 [300.300.300.300] with 128 bytes of data:
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time1ms TTL=128
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time 100ms TTL=128
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time 700 TTL=128
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time 700 TTL=128
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time 100ms TTL=128
Reply from 300.300.300.300: bytes=128 time1ms TTL=128
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
DOD To Boldy Route Where No Man Has Routed Before.... These are the voyages of the Star switch Cisco...
News Reporters Make Tasty Polar Bear Treats!
Is it just me or does anyone else think that putting a satellite into space that will route critical information for our Defense Department is a bad idea after China made clear it is working on satellite killer technology?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
We already know China has the balls to shoot one of its own satellites out of space. So I guess this satellite will be a high priority target for them for a future war.
Whether 250ms qualifies as real-time depends on your application. For a game of speed chess, maybe. For FPS, probably not.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
spaceroute!!!
Anyone want to take a bet they leave the default security settings on so you can hack in using the admin/password combo?
Works for my neighbor!
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
If I were DirectPC I'd want my satellite to be as simple and lightweight as possible. Is this like packets being routed like usa-satellite-satellite-satellite-africa? See the article for an explanation.
The long and short of it is this is designed to replace traffic that is currently going
somewhere-satellite-ground based router-satellite-somewhere
where the "somewheres" on either end are optional.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
We're with the government. We're here to help.
*shivers*
Anybody else's tinfoil hats giving you that tingling-feeling right about now?I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
But this is nothing. This would be news if they had put an Internet Router ... in space!!! Oh, wait...!
If you use IP with DoS on IRIS could wreck the DoD?
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Sure, when you can explain the humor behind our troops facing gunfire, snipers, and bombs every day...
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
186,282 miles per second: it's the law.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
/AC
Within 24 hours, some 419er is going to try to spam Dr_Reginald_Mumbutu@keyhole12.sat.mil.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
We can always counterattack
My 0.02 cents
You might try actually fact-checking those numbers. The actual number of US casualties in Iraq is almost 3,300, with another 23,000 wounded.
And yes, "wounded" includes losing limbs, eyes, and all sorts of other body parts that don't, on average, sustain major damage when you're out and about in Washington DC.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
As the satellite will be in a geostationary orbit (~22,000 miles up), no ASAT weapons developed to date will be able to target it. The Chinese shot down a weather satellite in low-earth orbit. Additionally, as both the USA and the former USSR have ASAT weapons in addition to China (India claims to have the ability to make them), it would be initiating mutual destruction of each other's satellites, and probably would be considered an act of war, for China or anybody else to attempt to destroy it.
There is such a freaking enormous amount of cable under the atlantic that we aren't going to run out any time soon. And if we do, space rocket or boat which do you think is cheaper to operate? Secondly, how is that different to say France, Italy and Austria ganging up and stopping Switzerland from accessing cables out of the country, which they could do now if they really wanted, really, this would make the ability to 'cut off' a country harder, cos they would have a whole bunch of satellites to choose from as well as cables. You can't possible imagine all the satellites being controlled by a single country can you?
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
Unless it's the speed of Miller, Bud or Naty light. Hmm..
"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
That's right, because we all know the Internet itself is vulnerable to this kind of physical attack, so putting it in space is just silly!
Oh wait.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
The DoD doesn't use the Internet, they use SIPRNet which is their own private IP net which is a tad bit harder to hack into from civilian nets. The DoD has also spent a little more time and effort on cryptography than consumer grade electronics firms.
On the flipside, DoD comms are typically far more clunky and over-engineered than consumer electronics; I've spoken to servicemen who said that in the field they are likely to use Motorola walkie-talkies from Best Buy as the government issue (non-secure) gear is bigger, dissipates more power, and has less range.
. . . it's a Network Operations Center !
If my modpoints hadn't ran out yesterday, I'd mod you up. Regardless of my opinion on the issue, Slashdot is a place for discussion, not a place for pushing a single side of any topic. I hate seeing people get modded flamebait on controversial issues, or just because the moderator disagrees. Good for you speaking up, way to use those rights that were defended by soldiers..
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
c is not the important speed here. Actually, the speed of the radio signals that go from and to the satellite. I think running fiber to the satellite would be pretty hard, and optic comunication using lasers is a bit far away, specially since the satellite is not still, and neither is the earth.
Off course, if we take into account that all the "speeds" we may measure are eventually determined by the value of c, your comment would be correct.
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
What will be the TLD for space routers? :-)
Maybe " "?
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
S1 Hi, I'm a satellite!
S2 Me too!
G And I'm a ground control station. What's going on here?
S1 Porn!
G What?
S1 We're sharing porn!
S2 Yeah, over the internet. That's easy!
wormholes...and they really help cut the latency down.
Transporter_ii
Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, religion destroys spirituality
I wonder if they will use optical links between the satellites? In space you don't have clouds or fog so a laser could make a good link between spacecraft. They have been using optical links for years between sigint satellites and military comsats. You get a high data rate, no need to worry about your transmissions interfering with what you are listening to, and your sigint bird is mostly silent except for the deception signals being sent.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
*log on to military PC/open browser*
//192.168.1.1
User: Administrator
Pass: [blank]
i think it's naive to think that the us gov couldnt do that anyway if they wanted. we run the root servers, us military designed the internet, i think they understand how it works, and i think they could effectively shut somebody down if they really wanted to. the thing is, they wont, because regardless of how it's done, it would be obvious, and would make us look like really bad guys.
even if it's as pedestrian as explosives on the cables, i think that possibility exists, and if not, id be wondering why not. one of the first things we should do in any conflict is cut off an enemy's communications, and that includes the internet.
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
First: Learn how moderating works on slashdot. They can't comment non-AC because their accurate flamebait moderations would go away.
Second: You ARE bating flame. Hence your flamebait moderations, which in my opinion, were correctly applies.
Third: This is not the place for a debate on why you're a dick bag and why the guy who made the joke you're getting all pissed off about is an asshole.
Fourth: Just because you have family in the armed forced doesn't mean we automatically give half a shit about your opinion.
Fifth: I'm an asshole for making this reply.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
I'm sure that if necessary, Congress can pass a law to mandate a faster speed of light.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I have.
If it's launched into a LEO, you'll need at least ten to twenty satellites to provide continuous coverage to any given point on Earth (although at that point, you'll have continuous coverage for every point on Earth). Cheaper to launch, lower lifespan - but much lower ping latency. Not as low as ground-based routing, but lower than trying to go +120,000km.
My money say's they're gonna need more'n one o' those!
DISCLAIMER, I worked for HNS, LLC. They have developed, tested, and proven this concept already with the SPACEWAY 1 & 2 satellites. It routes IP from Satellite Terminal to Satellite Terminal, does multicast, mesh, etc. The DoD project is going to initially run at 100Mbps, SPACEWAY already does 10Gbps. SPACEWAY 3 is set to launch later this summer and be in service over 1 year before IRIS.
Check here
You're probably right that there isn't any ASAT weapons to date able to target it and I'm sure it would be an act of war to do so. What I'm worried about is that in a future war they will be targeted. I don't think it would be a good thing to depend too heavily on that route of communication.
I guess it just doesn't seem that hard to me to destroy a satellite with a nuke even if the nuke isn't well aimed.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
Mel had a pretty good take on this too:
, _Part_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lpc-2CH1lg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_World
I'm just sayin'
Move the Pentagon up there too.
Maybe I'm being dense... but don't satellite internet providers route packets through space all day long?
That's the biggest reason I'm happy to get modded down; I know my rights, know the people that defend those rights as best able, and am delighted that I have the right to "unpopular" speech... Personally, I think it's funny as hell that while they can gripe about my posts being flamebait or trolling, and even mod me down for it, they can't tell me WHY the OP was supposed to be "funny", or why I was supposed to accept it as such without debate.
I never take ANY point for granted.
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Slight of hand? It can't cost all that much to chuck what's essentially a high powered wifi-router into space.
What it buys in misdirection to the perceived enemies of the day is probably well worth the chicken wire and duct tape it took to get it in orbit.
I wonder how much they'll be paying Cisco for a 4 hour response advance replacement warranty on that baby...
'Nuff said. :)
"It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
Next someone will want to change it from www.* to oww.* ( orbital wide web).
Just what the ISS needed, viagra and pr0n spam flooding the space station's inbox.
Spankin' the space monkey...oh yeah!
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
how are you going to stop the Chinese from blowing the damn thing into a shmazillion pieces with a laser? I'd hate to get a HTTP 404 in the middle of a battlefield. It would be an absolute killer of a moment.
pwned
PEHG and PEHB are both ethernet TCP/IP routers. Payload Ethernet Hub Gateway and Payload Ethernet Hub Bridge.
I can see it now. Note this transcript...
$ telnet router1.space.mil.govConnnecting...
Welcome to Router1.space.mil.gov
login: cisco
password: cisco
router1> en
password: cisco
router1#
Very secure indeed! ;-)
if (!sig) { printf("Signature Unavailable\n"); }
to "star topology".
I'm sorry if I haven't offended anyone
...email home.
http://marsnet.jpl.nasa.gov/
Pings in Spaaaaaace!
I've experiments to run, there is research to be done on the people who are still alive.
The Tamil Tigers are going to love this...
> "I know my rights, know the people that defend those rights as best able, and am delighted that I have the right to "unpopular" speech..."
I find it ironic that you consider your speech to be unpopular compared to the OP. Both positions seem equally tiresome to me.
> "Personally, I think it's funny as hell that while they can gripe about my posts being flamebait or trolling, and even mod me down for it, they can't tell me WHY the OP was supposed to be "funny""
Very well, I will explain the humor of the joke.
This is Slashdot, a tech news website. People who read slashdot generally enjoy jokes based on esoteric technical knowledge. The OP was trying to be funny by making a pun on the word "routed", which in itself was not an attack on American soldiers, but made reference to their position in an undesireable predicament. The humor is in the form of a sort of dark pity combined with the exclusive attraction of an in-joke.
> ", or why I was supposed to accept it as such without debate."
You are not required to accept it as funny, nor has anyone asked that of you. The very nature of the joke makes it very unfunny to people who are directly impacted by its subject matter.
I'm afraid you will have to accept the fact that almost every joke that is worth telling will offend some fraction of the population. This time around it happened to be you. Slashdot, just like many other places on the net, has a history of making jokes that some would deem in poor taste (for example, the comments in pretty much every news obituary ever posted here).
Best wishes.
Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.