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Music Decoded From 600-Year-Old Carvings
RulerOf writes "Musicians recently unlocked a 600 year old mystery that had been encoded into the walls of the Rosslyn Chapel in Scotland, the one featured in The Da Vinci Code. The song was carved into the walls of the chapel in the form of geometric shapes that a father-son team — both are musicians and the father is an ex-Royal Air Force code breaker — finally matched to so-called Chladni patterns (see the Wikipedia article on cymatics). The recovered melody was paired with traditional lyrics (translated into Latin) and recorded; the result can be heard in this video (also linked from the musicians' website). The video also gives a visual representation of how the engravings match up to the cymatic patterns." From the Reuters article: "'The music has been frozen in time by symbolism... [The carvings] are of such exquisite detail and so beautiful that we thought there must be a message here.' The two men matched each of the patterns on the carved cubes to a Chladni pitch, and were able finally to unlock the melody."
And translated into hex it reads: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I didn't think vinyl was that old.
When there's no killer albino on your tail.
Can't wait for the RIAA to try to collect royalties on that!
no doubt. ;-)
So the song enters the public domain in what, another decade or so?
"Oh boy! Are we going to try something dangerous?"
Whats it sound like?
The mystery was unlocked after the following number has been applied to the code from the walls: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
You can't handle the truth.
RIAA: Circumventing this encryption is a DMCA violation!
The song is a physical component of the building. The public domain enters into the song. Sort of an acoustic Soviet Russia, if you will.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
So who owes RIAA / SoundExchange money for that? The chapel? Or who unlocked the melody? And speaking of that - does that go against DMCA?
A couple of weekends ago, I took a sound healing workshops with Steve Sklar in Minneapolis ( mod me down for attending a new age workshop ;) ).
We played around with singing bowls. These are bowls of a particular metal alloy, and when you fill them with water at various levels, you can see patterns in the water emerge when you get the bowls vibrating strongly. At various levels, you can even see five-pointed water patterns. If you get them really going, the vibrations are so strong that water sprays out of the strong points. Sometimes they formed 'halos' or round craters in the middle, like some of the carvings.( As far as healing, you put these suckers on your body at various points and they give you a great, penetrating massage. )
Looking at the patterns referenced in the videos, I wonder if the carvers were transcribing the patterns that various pitches made in some kind of water-bearing vessel. I think this goes back to Pythagoreans and their idea that the sacred geometries were related to musical tones. IIRC, they thought that the basic generational patterns of our world were geometric, and represented themselves in various ways, including musical scales and visual geometry .
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
I personally found this fascinating, because it actually puts into pictures the common things we geeks learn in physics... about waves, destruction, amplification, et. Al... Worth the watch.
The RIAA lawyer claims in the lawsuit that this unauthorized decryption is a clear violation of the DMCA...
To boldly use to and too two times and get it right too! They're not gonna believe their eyes when they see it there!
DRM fails! ;)
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
if you look for patterns in any data you will find them, a quote from the movie PI illustrates this human trait
Sol Robeson: Hold on. You have to slow down. You're losing it. You have to take a breath. Listen to yourself. You're connecting a computer bug I had with a computer bug you might have had and some religious hogwash. You want to find the number 216 in the world, you will be able to find it everywhere. 216 steps from a mere street corner to your front door. 216 seconds you spend riding on the elevator. When your mind becomes obsessed with anything, you will filter everything else out and find that thing everywhere.
Wouldn't it be cool if this method could be used to decode sounds recorded tens of thousands of years ago? A caveman is sitting in a cave making some pottery, probably by running some kind of copper tool along it to make patterns on the pottery. As he's talking with other cavemen, the sound from their voices is making the copper tool vibrate along the pottery. Using lasers we can analyze the microscopic indentations caused by the tool and convert them into sound and hear what an ancient language sounded like. We could create recordings of ancient Greek, Proto-Indo-European, etc.
In Da Vinci Code Part II, they play the music in the chapel and a secret door opens. Cool!
I mean, c'mon, that DRM lasted 600 years! They're still trying to puzzle something together that's not broken in 600 minutes.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
So, if I understand correctly, they circumvented a special visual encryption scheme to unlock this music. Then they made an unauthorized copy, which they performed, recorded and then uploaded to the Internet.
Jack Valenti heard about the whole thing and had a heart attack.
These people are terrorists. Not only did they steal a copyright owned by Jesus himself, from a Church, they hate our precious freedoms to help corporations own and profit from music.
The are probably pirating gay abortion manuals as we speak to sell to Hezbollah and undermine our troops in Iraq. Can someone put these enemy combatants on a no fly list before the unthinkable happens?
It's only tangentially related, but TFA reminds me of a (supposedly true) story I once read about a man who found a plaque bearing the initials "H.W.H." The plaque was in such a prominent position that he assumed it must have been dedicated to a very important person in the town's history. He spent YEARS in the library, poring over records dating back into the 1800's, but wasn't able to find anything. Finally, out of desperation, he placed an ad in the newspaper, requesting assistance in identifying the mysterious "H.W.H." The very next day, he was called upon by a younger gentleman who kindly informed him that his father, in fact, had been one of the people who installed the underground hot water heater.
The fact that it took 600 years shows that music can be locked up even if it's in plain sight.
Mexico?
Quack, quack.
so let me get this right, they have found the right key which with this key they were able to unlock and decode the music?
btw what's this 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 you are all talking about?
Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
Gay abortion manuals?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C1 bottles of beer on the wall. Take one down, pass it round... Oh, umm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chladni
Chladni released his patterns in the mid 1700s. That's a lot more recently than 600 years ago.
I think these guys found patterns where they don't exist, or wrongly confused them. Especially when you consider they used mod a lot to lop things off.
The music is beautiful, even if the explanation is more than a bit unconvincing.
I would have liked to see how they pulled the actual tonal progression out of the sequence though. How did they know which direction to read it?
Although in the end, the how is irrelevant. It's an unusually interesting inspiration for a beautiful modern piece of music. At least they did more then just hide the chord progression from "Happy Birthday" in the bass line.
Sound has been making patterns in water and sand over tight thin material for much longer than 600 years. Just because Chladni was the first one to write them down doesn't mean other people had not noticed them.
Watch the video.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
From what I saw in the video, there's not enough of a match between the Chladni patterns and the designs on the cubes to convince me that this is what the sculptors intended. If that's considered a match, then I'm seeing Chladni patterns burned into 1/3 of the pancakes that I make (with the other 2/3's being Elvis and the virgin Mary).
:)
However... I do find the concept very intriguing. I'm sure that the patterns are produced by pitches that are of fixed ratios to each other. This means that you could reproduce the melody without knowing anything about the musical system that the authors used (the only requirement being that they came from the same universe as you... or, at least, one with the same physical laws governing wave reflection and interference). This aspect (ie, zero cultural knowledge) of it reminds me of the part in Contact, where the aliens send us prime numbers.
I also find it slightly plausible that the people would have known about this 600 years ago. If it's true that gregorian chants arose out of a desire to capitalize on resonances in houses of worship, then they would have had many opportunities to observe the effects of loud mono-tonal sounds upon visible things like, say, the bowl of holy water.
So... it's remotely plausible. But I think it's bullshit, anyway.
I remember a recent post about goemetric shapes in the galaxy, on a planet, etc. I wonder if somehow harmonics are causing this amazing anomoly is these places somehow.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
I fail to see how they can prove this translates in to some music. I remember watching the harmonics demonstration they used in this. As far as I know, it was in no way related to what these people are claiming. Patterns, patterns, patterns everywhere.
Sorry to be a spoilsport, but this whole thing seems highly speculative.
The matching between the Cymatic patterns and the carvings is tenuous at best- is it just me, or does the Cymatic pattern at 2:54 in the video look _nothing_ like the carving it fades to? In addition, for this technique to have any validity, they would either have to know the plate size used by the composers or demonstrate that the Cymatics are unaffected by the size and thickness of the plate, which I doubt.
They also make the vast assumption that the angels are pointing to a treble clef, when there are many others such as the C clef and bass clef that were more common in the 15th Century.
Even if they decoded the tones correctly they give any explanation as to how they discovered the timing of the piece, or was this just 'to make it sound cool' like the random vocals that they added?
Sounds like someone had this at the back of their mind for 20-odd years and then they read the Da Vinci Code and saw a way to make a quick $.
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How will anyone ever know whether the decoding is correct? Pretty much any medieval sounding 7 notes per octave, vaguely musical tune will work...
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
Even with all the bogus vocals added in the youtube video, this composition sucks in a major way. There's got to be something else to it. I'd hate to think these people mystified the world for 600 years with an encoded, slow version of a bad Evanescence flop. And dammit, I like classical!
On a sidenote, the cymatics were very interesting, and I believe I never encountered them before, despite a physics/maths - heavy education. The wikipedia article is sadly very brief, although the main point I guess is the physical effect of harmonic wave functions.
I only hope that for all that work they get more than just a chest with 20 rupees in it.
You're geek enough to read and post on /. but not geek enough to be able to Google a mysterious hex code? :)
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
"Pretty Woman" by Roy Orbison?
...Chladni pattern?
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Motzard?
haha... sigh.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I've listened to and studied a lot of medieval, renaissance and modern music, and it sounds like what a modern film composer might write for certain bits of a medieval film. To get technical:
- The repeating three-note phrase uses begins with the note B over what is essentially an F chord. This didn't happen until about the 18th century.
- At the very start of the video when just the trio is singing the word resonare, the final syllable is set to a unprepared dominant 7th chord, which was first used in the early 17th century.
- Once the string pads enter it sounds more like Arvo Pärt than John Dunstaple.
-I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
At minute 4:33 of the video, they finally tell us the book's title: The Music of Teh Cubes
What part of `yes no` don't you understand?
There's a reason why errors like this are a hallmark of crackpot science.
(Granted, the bugly Diablo/Planescape/DaVinciCode font they used makes it nearly impossible to parse anything written in it.)
I can see the fnords!
Wow - a /. topic I'm actually qualified to comment on . . . anyway, I had a listen to the mp3 while waiting for the video to download. This stuff sounds absolutely nothing like authentic 15th century music. Granted, Scottish stonemasons may have been a bit behind the musical curve and not up on their Dufay, Ockeghem, and Josquin, but this stuff sounds more like Arvo Pärt on his worst day ever. The video is likewise unconvincing and little more than an ad for the CD and book. This strikes me as nothing but a pathetic attempt at riding Dan Brown's coattails.
Journey onward.
Wow... 600-year-old melody locked in time by ancient peoples, that must be decoded to find their illustrious beauty? Maybe singing one will cause fire or lighting to rain down from the sky.
Someone call Namco, I think we've got something here!
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
the carvings are actually coded for a specific question. Their translation is as follows:
42
Touch Me Baby One More Time.
Genius.
Is it really hard to believe that someone building a chapel would carve a hymn into the walls?
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
So *that's* how we sent music out on the Voyager craft!
I noticed that the YouTube video opening credits say "Roslyn Motet, Cymantic Video Demonstation".
Demonstation?! That's pretty demonic!
Better have a change of trousers on hand before you listen...
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
This remember me the guy who were drawing embryos...
Having been a musician and studied mathmatics for engineering, it seems like just a coincidence. Any reapated pattern on a musicial scale forms a melody and classic visual patterns will line up with classic musical patterns. Its about proportions - I have learned by being a visual artist, as well. Anyone familiar with Bernoulli would see this is just a coincidence.
Numerous documentaries screened in the UK before now have speculated on this possibility.
A quick web search just now brings up this article from April 2006, which suggests decodings and recordings have existed since 2004.
One word: Be-aware
around the middle of April i got an invitation from them to join their trials and use their new tv-via-p2p internet tv channels.
I go to their site, at https://www.joost.com/download/ to download the installler... and what do i get ? a slap-in-the face license.
I took the time to actually read the license they display (i know...wow factor) and what i read in that license gave me the willies..
They display it in a tiny window... i had to select it all, copy into clipboard and paste it into another program to view it properly.
Practically it says they can install and any software they want without asking me, provided that the software they install claims to display a license and that license is accepted.
Here are the relevant quotes:
2.1.1 Joost and the Joost(TM) Software will, and will permit third parties to, display advertising and other information within the interface of the Joost(TM) Software and/or in connection with the display of content and programming, in all cases without compensation to you. Joost or the Joost(TM) Software serves, and permits third parties to serve, advertisements within or adjacent to the content and programming delivered to you by the Joost(TM) Software. You understand and agree that Joost or the Joost(TM) Software, or applicable third parties, may include content-targeted advertisements or other related information, as further described in the Joost Privacy Policy. Your correspondence or business dealings with, or participation in promotions of, advertisers found on or through the Joost(TM) Software, including payment and delivery of related goods or services, and any other terms, conditions, warranties or representations associated with such dealings, are solely between you and such advertiser.
all clean, right ?? WRONG. here's what comes next a bit further:
4.1. You hereby acknowledge and agree that the Joost(TM) Software may be incorporated into, and may incorporate itself, software and other technology owned and controlled by third parties. Any such third party software or technology that is incorporated in the Joost(TM) Software falls under the scope of this Agreement. Any and all other third party software or technology that may be distributed together with the Joost(TM) Software will be subject to you explicitly accepting a license agreement with that third party. You acknowledge and agree that you will not enter into a contractual relationship with Joost or its affiliates regarding such third party software or technology and you will look solely to the applicable third party and not to Joost or its affiliates to enforce any of your rights.
4.2.3. When installed on your computer, the Joost(TM) Software may periodically communicate with Joost servers and/or Joost(TM) Software installed by other users. Additionally, third party software installed on Your computer may periodically communicate with third party servers for the purposes described in the license agreement or privacy policy between you and that third party.
what ?! third party software may communicate with third party servers ??? isn't this the core definition of spyware ??
12.8. Governing Law; Jurisdiction; Waiver of Claims. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of Luxembourg, without regard to conflict of law rules thereof. The parties hereto expressly understand and agree that any action brought by you against Joost arising out of this Agreement shall be brought exclusively in the courts located in Luxembourg, and any action brought by Joost against you arising out of this Agreement shall, at the election of Joost, be brought in either the courts located in Luxembourg, or the applicable courts of the jurisdiction in which you reside. The parties hereby consent to, and irrevocably submit themselves to, the exclusive personal jurisdiction and venue of such courts as set forth in this section. You further
Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you - just one word.
Ben: Yes sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Ben: Yes I am.
Mr. McGuire: 'Cymatics.'
Ben: Exactly how do you mean?
Mr. McGuire: There's a great future in cymatics. Think about it. Will you think about it?
Ben: Yes I will.
Mr. McGuire: Shh! Enough said. That's a deal.
Not directly related, I'd like to publicize the recording of a 13th century manuscript, the Worcester fragments:- Consort/dp/B000002052/ref=sr_1_6/102-6883430-63329 31?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1178109790&sr=8-6
http://www.amazon.com/Worcester-Fragments-Orlando
There are no reviews but this disc is really good. Nice work, performance and recording.
how the FUCK do you copyright something set in stone HUNDREDS of years ago? If the civilization actually intended this to be done like so, how does deciphering it constitute a copyright? It can't be done, this was released to the public HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO! They may own the copyright to the video, and the EXACT entirety of the backing track (which was spliced together for fair use, the song with singing you hear is a Roman-Catholic Confession song that I sing quite often to spite those Catholics around me, mainly because they don't know Latin and therefore do not know what the fuck the lyrics say nor mean.) but to the actual song itself, NO. This is just for clarification purposes. Hate to steal your funniness away, but you just spurred me into saying this.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I would say that music has been extrapolated from 600-year-old carvings, not 'decoded'.
MORTAR COMBAT!
So, does this qualify as prior art to invalidate any music DRM patents?
However, the mere fact that humans are pre-disposed to find patterns does not automatically make these patterns invalid, only that any discovered pattern requires further validation.
Otherwise, you risk falling into the trap of tossing out valid data merely because you chose not to believe what you see. This is the opposite error of "jumping to conclusions".
A goal is a dream with a deadline
For introducing me to Arvo Pärt.
Yes, I am the one with the legendary sig.
Ah, I've seen stuff like that before. I believe it went "right A down right A down".
600 year old music ... perhaps finally, something original? If it turns out to be some kinda medieval Macarena, I am going to shoot myself.
Global warming is neither science, nor politics. It is a religion.