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The Perfect Phone Storm?
peter deacon writes "Is the iPhone the next Segway, the next Zune, or the next iPod? The Perfect Storm offers some iPhone details that aren't secrets, but tend to be lost upon the analysts and journalists cranking out hit pieces on the iPhone. Why is everyone from Gartner to Gizmodo calling for a boycott of the iPhone? An interesting take on how Apple's new mobile phone will push to open up the web as a mobile platform for every mobile device on the market with a standards-based browser, and how Apple 'hacked the hackers' by releasing Safari for Windows in advance of its new phone."
That sucks....seemed like it'd be an interesting article too.
We came,we saw, we kicked it's ass!
It leads to a stack overflow that will just end up running their code.
Slashdot has just posted yet another clearly biased article about how great the ipod is going to be, personally I think there should be an investigation into either bribery or conflict of interests of the runners of this site. Okay, I'm being a bit melodramatic, but this article doesn't add anything plus it implies some real crap, for example when it implies an article by gizmodo about the shady past of AT&T is nothing but a weak smear campaign dragging up every tiny thing from the past, it's a well known fact that AT&T is not one of the best providers, and does have a bad record. I'd like to registeer my complaint about this, another iphone hype articcle, being here, right now.
AT&T really has the power to make or break the iPhone. If the network doesn't support fast enough connections to enable fast safari apps the device is sunk. But I like the articles brief coverage of the other non-issues that the iPhone haters are using.
This would definitely not pass wikipedia's NPOV test. The whole article amounts to a shrill rant accusing anyone who says anything negative about the iPhone of being a Microsoft shill. roughly drafted indeed.
I think we should have a cap for shameless slashverts per week per product..
Apple has dropped just enough information at just regular enough intervals to create a level of anticipation for the iPhone that can only be described as off the hook. Amid all the opinions--and the frantic warnings of doom from certain analyst groups--are a few details that have been largely overlooked.
Here's a deconstruction of a few myths that have failed to take these unhidden secrets into consideration, along with the final aspect of why Apple released Safari for Windows, as I promised to reveal in the last article. It has something to do with the iPhone, of course.
Segway Segue, or AirPort Runway?
The levels of both enthusiastic hype and detractors' hate over the iPhone appear to have handily eclipsed one of the last ultra-hyped new devices of the tech world: Dean Kamen's Segway personal transporter.
Back in 2001, the Segway was presented sight unseen as the mysterious, revolutionary invention Ginger. It was privately shown to a handful of luminaries--including Steve Jobs--who all seemed excited about its potential. When actually revealed to the public, it was met with a mix of interest and ridicule, in part due to its steep price tag. After all, if you can't afford it, it must be silly and impractical.
Kamen's claim that the Segway would change society and that cities would be reconfigured to account for a world mobilized by two wheeled robot transporters didn't work out as planned.
San Francisco--one of the few cities to have enough flush nerds to warrant opening up a Segway dealership--actually banned the device on its sidewalks in a frantic, spastic panic about public safety concerns.
On the other hand, there have also been runaway hits that initially received little hype, criticism, or attention. Apple's AirPort introduced a mainstream audience to WiFi wireless networking. Apple wasn't the first implementation on Earth, but it did offer a pioneering set of products that delivered ease of use on a level that is still unmatched.
The iPod was also greeted with passive yawns and dismissed as too simple, too expensive, and uninteresting by critics, only to build into a phenomenon that changed the music industry, made Apple's simple music players a household name, and established the company as a top consumer brand.
The Devil in the Details.
Unlike the Segway, the iPhone isn't a hyped tease. Apple introduced the device six months ago with a full demonstration of how it actually worked, assigned it a firm price tag, published its technical specifics down to the millimeter and gram, and provided a comprehensive look at its features and underlying technologies.
In comparison, Microsoft's Zune--which had been in the news just a few months earlier--was presented from the start as having an unclear feature set. Fans made broad assumptions about its capabilities, resulting in great disappointment. Analysts overreached to claim that Microsoft would eat up Apple's iPod market share by offering a highly subsidized unit, or even offer it for free with a subscription plan, neither of which actually happened.
As the "iPod Killer" got closer to release, its price was still a secret and its key features were revealed to be more limited that anyone imagined. Its highly touted WiFi became nothing more than a way to squirt advertisements to friends, exploiting "the Social" in an attempt to sell music in Microsoft's new PlaysForSure-incompatible version of its impossible to crack Janus DRM.
Only its violent failure could silence the giddy critics that gushed about its supposed game changing, iPod killing impact that never happened. The Zune made the Segway look like a runaway hit.
The Desperate Panic of the Apple Haters.
It is therefore interesting to compare the news sources that gushed over the Zune--with little information from Microsoft--and encouraged their readers to blow $250 on one, because they are today providing a non-stop emergency warning siren that ignores everything we've been told by Apple about the iPhone to instead present a
Bad Panda! No Bamboo for you! In matters of importance ACs will not be responded to. Want to say something critical,OK
Site seems down, but if it's from Roughlydrafted, I don't even need to read it. I'm guessing it's about how misreported/misunderstood/misrepresented Apple is by this and that media outlet and how some Microsoft conspiracy or Apple detractors were trying to put them down, but Apple's brilliant strategy will allow them to prevail nonetheless. Probably intermixed with lots of photoshopped illustrations and "witty" sub-headlines.
Yeah, I know, ad hominems are bad, but every Roughlydrafted article is like that. That guy is probably minting AdSense-gold from people who get too worked up about Apple (both pro and contra).
Segway? Zune? ... Zune? Segway?
Zuneway!
Three Squirrels
Apple is spending all this money paying for the constant hype stories and is turning the iPhone into the most hated product ever before it is even released.
Jesus Christ, why are you still giving this shill a platform? I mean, I know flamewars create ad impressions, but come on. This isn't global warming or terrorism. This is people treating a corporation like a religion! You're better than this, slashdot!
He was caught gaming Digg, you know.
That's all anyone needs to see in the story summary to know it is another paid for product advertisement.
I wasn't convinced about the iPhone until I watched it. While the data rate will be slow, the whole operation of the phone is very simple and highly usable.
While the product may or may not succeed, you will see much of it's functionality stolen by Microsoft and the Symbian crew.
The iPhone interface makes UIQ, S60 and Windows mobile seem like dumbphones.
>"Slashdot has just posted yet another clearly biased article about how great the ipod is going to be"
;-)
We all know how great the iPod is. This is about the iPhone. You may want to re-read the article.
can it just come out already?! Apple has all but abandoned it's desktops(there hasn't been a significant refresh in over 9 months of any of the desktop lines) but pimps this stupid $500/600 phone like there is no tomorrow. I'm just hoping that once this damn thing is released Apple will remember that it makes computers too.
Monstar L
Is utter crap and flame bait. I could not roll my eyes any harder at the fanboi factor. My favorite part was when it defended Apples' affiliation with at&t which was accused of "Microsoft-style anti-competitive maneuvers and anti-privacy efforts á la RIAA." , they could only go "But..but...Microsoft! over there! sic the zune!". They could of... I dunno, showed the merits of using AT&T? Instead of just bashing? Seriously, in the end of things, Fanbois on both sides of the PC/MAC debate are bad. At least the PC side has no illusions about their Cybertronic Overlords.
... he'd probably kill everyone who doesn't have a picture of Steve Jobs on a wall at home.
The author creeps me out. He's beyond being a fanboi, to the point where someone could once make a movie about him, and it wouldn't be the usual comedy.
I thought getting an iPhone might be interesting, but to be honest the barrage of media coverage has been *so* excessive I'm already sick of the damn thing and it hasn't even been released!
So, the answer would be no. Besides it's only pretend geek phone - a real geek phone would fit in a CF socket so you could drop it into any device you like, and come with an unlimited high speed data plan as standard.
Beep beep.
As much as Apple would like to believe the interface can swing it, it appears the only way to code for it right now is to write browser apps (please someone tell me I'm wrong here, I'd love to be). So your apps need to be connected. And costing you money. And limited by the need to be in the browser, so no local caching of information like google maps or live maps for mobile does. No manipulation of files store on the phone. No games outside the browser.
Nokia has the symbian sdks and java, microsoft has the .net compact framework (and in the HTC phones java as well). Apple are restricting everything to the browser (and if we're lucky, they may support flash in the browser).
So why would Symbian or Microsoft steal a restrictive programming framework? The interface may be nice, and it will sell it to end users, but it's not a phone for developers or even corporate users.
Is there a plug-in for firefox that allows me to blacklist certain domains? I feel dirty now for wasting my time on yet another roughlydrafted BS "article".
Blogs "articles" such as this one make me cringe. Talk about fanboys taking their obsession far to serious. I mean, a Gartner report is the last thing that's going to stop the iPhone from being a massive success. Furthermore, so what if Engadget and Gizmondo have slightly negative writing on the iPhone, that's just 2 out of 3.1415 googol blogs and sites which are giving the phone great marketing for free.
Some have already said this - but the bias level of this article is higher than an out of whack PID controller.
You are being melodramatic. And you clearly didn't take the time to read the piece. I did.
There are moments in the article where he intelligently breaks down aspects of the hatred being tossed around, possibly in conflict of interest scenarios. It seems much of the article points out that the iPhone gravitates heavily toward open standards, which I find to be a very good thing.
By the way, the article is not about AT&T. It's about the Apple iPhone. Thanks for registering your complaint, but please troll elsewhere.
Not only did such purity in news reporting scarcely ever exist, as you might discover by reading Manufacturing Consent, but whatever elements of it did exist have largely been abandoned by corporations and are also little in evidence online in 21st century news and blogging.
Slashdot's advocacy journalism. It's about promoting what its editors like and dissing what they don't. (It's in the comments that the correctives and tonics are found.) The sooner you accept that this is a lobbying site with its own fairly transparent agendas, the happier you'll be here.
how interesting
:|
wow im so excited, its like im living in the future or something
how is this a big selling point?
ive been doing this since the the turn of the century
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Let's count the previews that mention this massive issue for serious users of email.
I can't find ONE.
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
1. Get Apple or i something in your user name. /appletv and a black mock turtle neck within 72 hours of registering on /.
2. Find fifteen to twenty Apple advertorials and submit them as stories.
3. Don't dis Linux while maintaining an air of superiority as an Apple user.
4. Always take the Cowboy Neal option in polls.
5. Exception to number 4 is only those instances where you can reasonably select "Breast" as your poll answer.
6. You must criticize every conceivable feature or bug in Vista while not admitting that you are an Apple fanboy. Others will do that for you.
7. You must by a mac / ipod
Any questions? Email stevejobsismygod@slashdot.mac
load "$",8,1
but this article doesn't add anything
I found it useful in several places. Recently my father forwarded me an email from his boss (IT email/blackberry support) saying they were taking a wait-and-see approach on the iPhone, and refusing support for the moment. The reasons for doing so were basically a copy and paste of Gartner's assessment--including the fact that there was no Notes/Exchange support.
I'm not in IT (anymore) so I didn't know that Notes/Exchange support IMAP and POP, so the claim of no Notes/Exchange support is a bit of a red herring. At the very least, Gartner should be embarrassed for being professionals in the field and forgetting about that.
the shady past of AT&T is nothing but a weak smear campaign dragging up every tiny thing from the past
See, I didn't get that. I don't feel the article said it was a weak smear campaign--I felt the article gave the shady past of AT&T its due. For me, the most salient point was the fact that Gizmodo didn't hold other companies to the fire like they have AT&T. If that's true, I think they have a point to a point--AT&T's dealings are so much more shadier than other companies.
Is it like walmart, in which every mom and pop shop is going to have close, adn the big guys, like target, are going to have find innovative ways to compete?
Is it like SUVs, in which individuals are unfairly taking advantages that were meant to for farmers and laborers, thus forcing those that choose not to take advantage of the tax code to subsidize their lifestyle?
Is it like the american automaker, refusing to put put profits into R&D, seeing it's stock turn to junk.
Or is it as simple as the wackos on street corners who scream at people as the walk or drive past, imploring them not to visit a particular place because they will be putting their immortal souls in jeopardy.
I may not get an iPhone, but given the amount of money that has been spent begging people not to buy it, I look forward to how it will transform the US mobil phone market as well as the Blackberry/MS fight over the enterprise mobile market. Given the level of fear, I expect that transformation to be significant. I see IT personal having to go to training, kickbacks disappearing, and perhaps, in a perfect world, more webpages that can be read by browsers other than IE.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Given how pro-Apple Roughly Drafted is, they rank on the order of The Pigpile.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
It is no wonder that there is a lot of curiosity and anticipation of this device. To spite what geeks/nerds might think, the current products on the market today are a mess. Look at these things with dozens of buttons, thick and ugly, with thrown together interfaces, everything is basically a one-off kludge. Consumers see the potential in handheld devices but they know that nobody has yet realized this potential. Will it be the iPhone? I don't know. But if it isn't, we might be in trouble- I don't know of another device on the horizon with as much potential.
Turn off Apple News? Don't read them?
What?
I didn't see anything apart from security and open standards that were covered by other sources.
I'd still like final confirmation on video capture (or why it doesn't have it) among other things.
If the iPhone were available on Verizon's network, I'd be at the store with credit card in hand on day one. A lot of iPhone buyers are going to be really surprised when they try to browse the web on AT&T's pokey network.
Doug Jensen
fer fecks sake... it's just a phone... not the second coming... I'm getting sick and tired of this iPhone mania...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
That's the problem with it in my book.
It's SIM locked to Cingular and no one knows how to unlock it right now.
You can save a ton of money overseas by using a local prepaid SIM, and if this locks it out, I have no use for the device.
It's too bad Apple didn't stand up to Cingular on this.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
That's who Apple went to first. When negotiations broke down, they went to AT&T. AT&T had to bend over backwards quite a bit to get the deal, but it wasn't Apple's first choice.
Source? A well placed relative inside AT&T.
We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
The web site is nothing but promotional articles with links to more promotional articles on the same site (how many external links have you seen there)? It doesn't deserve notice on slashdot.
I don't know why everyone's getting so hyped up over a small part of the iPhone. I know I want one because a) it syncs with iCal and addressbook and b) it has good chances to being the first ever actually useable smartphone. I've looked all over the market about a year ago, and to be honest, every smartphone sucks, just each one in different ways. From what I've seen, the iPhone has the lowest "suck factor" by far, and a couple really nice features. I don't think the web-browsing will clock in a considerable part of the time you spend with your phone for most people.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Columnists don't necessarly bash products becasue they hate the product. They're in a ratings business. If everyone writes articles that praises a product, we'll all yawn and nobody will bother to read them. By bashing a product -- especially if it's a product that everyone else loves, this creates controversey.
.99 per song the iTunes Music Store, that maybe Apple's exclusive deal with AT&T came with a clause that also limits what AT&T can charge for the rate plans on the phone in order to keep that exclusivity. I expect to have my sanity challenged for even being willing to consider such a possibility, but remember that since AT&T stands between Apple and Apple's customers. They can totally make or break the success of this product. Apple has a lot at stake and is generally not stupid when it comes to negotiations, so I'm hopeful that their agreement with AT&T keeps AT&T in check or gives Apple the right to sell the product through other carriers if AT&T can't perform.
We see this on slashdot all the time... we call it 'trolling'.
As for the iPhone we'll have to wait and see. While I can find things to criticize in Apple's products (as the saying goes.... you can't please all of the people all of the time) they do have a reputation for good products.
Did anybody *really* have high hopes about the Microsoft Zune? Maybe fan-boys did, but most people in the industry have come to expect that getting software from Microsoft is almost like getting software from the former KGB (it's loaded with 'bugs' and they maintain more control over your device than you do -- why should the Zune be any different.)
The high expectation about the iPhone is because so far most phones suck. It would be really nice to have a phone that sucks less than the one I have now. That phone is a Treo 650 that used to crash 3 times per day. Now it only screws up a few time per week and for some strange reason I am happy with this because I fear that every *other* phone will be just as bad and I'll just end up locked into another contract.
Speaking of contracts... AT&T (Cingular) says they plan to reelase "new phone plans" on June 29th which go with the iPhone. Having a very low opinion of phone companies, my assumption is that this will be a plan intended to rape buyers, but make up for the high price tag by offering poor service. (Please God tell me it isn't so) My hope is that since Apple was successfully able to keep the music industry from charging more than
I mean give us a break.. Everyone seems to be divided into 2 camps here. Either you are (i)pro-iphone or against it. Personally I think thats plain out silly and very narrow minded. I've been looking at several reviews and movies and such about the iphone and quite frankly I think that it looks very slick and impressive. There is simply a big "BUT" to fill in every here and there.
For example; I really like the idea of having an ipod due to its versatility and the way it plays music. However, I don't really need an mp3 player (I sometimes abuse my ipaq for that) and so the combination of mp3 player and phone appeals to me. Next is, ofcourse, internet access. I currently use the internet feature a lot on my current phone.
However, the reason why I think the iPhone isn't going to be as appealing to me in the end are a few simple details. I actually like simplicity at one point but also extensiveness in the other. Take, for example, useability. When I grab my current phone I open it up and can start dialing, using the Net, etc. with a single tap of the button (either a number or 'i' button). When I grab the iPhone I'd need to turn it "on", confirm that I want to turn it on by using the slider, then select either the option to "dial" or the option to use the Net. Sure, this looks awefully sleek; but I think that it might be very tedious in the end.
Another thing is snapping pictures. I'm only starting with using my phone as a camera every now and then (yes, I'm one of the types who doesn't believe in one product doing everything) and when looking at the iPhone I can't help wondering.. There's this button on the left which can be used to change the volume, but how does one snap a photo? By using one of the displayed buttons perhaps? With my current phone there's this button on the side of the machine which I can press to start using it as a camera as well as actually snapping a picture. Simplicity. I really don't see myself grabbing the iphone with one hand and using my other to tell it to snap a picture.
So, does this mean the iPhone is crap? Ofcourse not! What people should be learning to understand is that if they don't like a product or some of its features it doesn't mean that this applies to everyone! Heck, I can see the iPhone becoming a hit due to its versatility (music player/phone combo for example). Just like I can see it not becoming the biggest hit due to some (possibly, this can't be confirmed right now) lack of versatility. An example of that can be using your own stuff as a ringtone. I'm really not that much of a "phone die hard" but I do appreciate the option to play mp3 files on my phone and actually use those as a ringtone. Its not something I spend hours on, but I like using 3 - 4 different ringtones to seperate my callers.
So like.. Nothing to see here IMO. Move along, lets start the discussions when there's actually something concrete to discuss instead of speculate!
But seriously, what I really feel will limit iPhone's adoption, at least on this side of the pond, is the non-serviceable battery. What's up with that? That's borderline demented! All the mobiles I've had since 1995 had interchangeable batteries! And batteries these days are notoriously piss poor, they only endure a few hundred charge/discharge cycles, after 6 months or so they start holding maybe 70 or 60% of their initial charge, after a year or less they're good to be replaced. At least with my Nokias I can just ride down to the store, buy a new battery and plug it in. Voilà, it's as good as new.
I wouldn't buy an iPhone because of that reason alone. I have two or three batteries for all my phones, and usually carry a second freshly charged one with me, because I'm not always sure I can go home everyday, or will be able to find a place to charge the phone.
I go through a new mobile maybe every two or three years, but I buy new batteries yearly or less. My phone is very important to me, I just checked and my five and a half year old Nokia 6310i has a little over 715 hours of talk time; my three year old Nokia 6230 has a bit over 482 hours; and the new Nokia 6233 I bought in December to retire the 6310 already ranks over 230 hours. Even with the 40% increase in battery time (what, it'll last 45 minutes now?), the fact I can't change the battery is still makes it a toy. Thanks, but no thanks.
Well, that, and the piss poor data rates are also laughable. What is this, 2002 all over again?
And besides, what idiot had the brilliant idea of leaving out 3G in a handset marketed towards hip, young, urban people? That's the key demographic target of 3G! Leaving it out is an egregious mistake if I ever saw one.
Given the text of the article, and section headers like "The Desperate Panic of the Apple Haters", you can't really take it seriously as an analysis. As with most advocacy pieces there's really nothing in-depth to warrant the read.
So I'm remaining skeptical until long term sales figures are available. From the spec to-date it doesn't appear the iPhone has any features not found on other phones for some time now. Will Apple implement in a way that makes up for the lack of new technology, as it did with the iPod?
One thing I do see as a drawback is the touchpad. Cell phones, Blackberrys, and keyboards have keys for a reason: speed and accuracy of typing. No tactile feedback on closely spaced keys is likely to make the iPhone less user-friendly than you'd expect, if cheaper to manufacture.
- he's really, really sticking it to him!
- i love the fact that Apple is cool, while MSFT is in the sh*tz!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
(die, MSFT, DIE ALREADY!)
Linux doesn't want to be OS X. OS X is very nice, and a better OS for newbies. But it's not what Linux wants to be.
Linux is exactly what it wants to be, right now-- an open platform where geeks can meet and thrive. OS X is closed up to Apple developers only. That's not necessarily bad (though I feel it is, that's my opinion, not a fact), it isn't what Linux developers want.
Keep in mind Linux and OS X have different development philosophies, and you'll do all right.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
Probably around the time the editors grew up enough to overcome their sexual insecurities and realized they didn't need to compensate by using a penis enlarger computer any longer.
Who let this tripe get to the front page? Everyone should know that RD articles deserve to be marked down right in the Firehose. He profits directly from this exposure. Seriously, what did this article tell us? Oh, right, it told us nothing. It is useless conjecture and more silly defense of a company. The absolute best part is the author has the gall to label some bloggers as "impassioned." Hate to break it to you buddy, but who is the one Photoshopping heads of Microsoft onto movie posters? Or writing at least ten articles about a freakin MP3 player from Microsoft Or running a whole website devoted to spreading the 'truth' in this age of 'Microsoft-loving media'?
But, like everything unintentionally funny, it gets even better. He argues, and I quote, "Apple hacks the hackers." (How clever, did he think of that himself?) He issues a hand-waving argument about how the bugs weren't really in Safari (just in the shared libraries, which, *technically* isn't in Safari.exe. Yeah, let's try that argument for IE, shall we?). But, he then claims that by having the hackers find these bugs, they got free QA. I bet all those hackers are sitting around now and thinking, "BLAST! Our plans have been thoroughly foiled by Apple once again! We have been unfairly tricked! I call foul play!"
It looks like I need to up the ante when it comes to making jokes about RD. And I encourage you to do the same.
At work, I have WiFi.
At home, I have WiFi.
In the city, I have WiFi (thanks to Google).
The number of times I'll be using Edge is vanishingly small, and during those times (eg: a breakdown on the freeway, or my Garmin GPS dies), I'll just have to, you know, put up with it. Oh noes.
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Where are these people sleeping on the streets for the iphone? I have not read any coverage of campers anywhere yet. They do expect people the night before, possibly, but we are talking about speculation, not history.
IMHO Apple (and all the iPhone buyers) will live to regret the day they decided not to do what it took to go with Verizon instead of AT&T.
Doug Jensen
The iPhone costs as much as PS3, but that won't phase the rabid early adopters. And as cool as the iPhone is, I just don't see the value when I can buy a low end laptop for the same price.
Just as the original iPod was outlandishly over-priced for my tastes, so too is the iPhone. Give it a few years and the price will drop and the design and UI will be perfected, just like the iPod.
Apple fans = Left/Labour/Democrats Windows fans = Right/Conservative/Republicans Linux fans = Anarchist/Libertarians Slashdot is rooted in the third, and most analytical, psychosocial group. As a member of that group, I know that I will never be in the majority, and I consider the other two both equally boneheaded. The sheeple of both varieties can squabble as much as they like. I don't care, as I will never use their lame software or vote for their lame politicians. A pox on both their houses! It'll be an OpenMoko Neo 1973 for me. And if it doesn't work out of the box, it'll be all the more fun! :)
So There.
So There.
What it did do was expose hundreds of thousands of people to Safari (there have been over 1M downloads), helping people to accept that Safari is a real browser and ready them for iphone.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Nope. Just watched it again twice and there's nothing of which you speak.
Fuck off troll.
I see I've been modded 'Troll'. Maybe some of the critics of the placement of the Apple are right. Slashdot ain't what it used to be.
(Hint for the clueless: The NEO1973 is the first open cell phone, early developers already have the phones in their hands, mass production scheduled for September 2007. Open Moko is the linux based distro that runs on it...)
Open Moko blog roll
Open moke wiki
Wireless service pricing models are the result of the same oligopoly that brought us cell phones that suck.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
- No 3G: Welcome to data transfers about as quick as 20th-century dial-up
- Only available locked to one provider
- Even sim-locked, it's hugely expensive
- No SDK
- Actually, that screen: no tactile feedback, so you'll have to be keep your eyes on it all the time while you use it: no texting on the move, no finding the "answer" button by touch when it rings,
...
- It's going to be a grease magnet too. Slimy ear grease!
- Battery trapped inside, like the iPod. Difference is, phones eat the battery faster than iPods, and it's useful to be able to keep a spare one charged up.
Looks nice though, which will be enough for the sheeple.I gotta say, having someone self-identify as anarchist/libertarian *and* as a member of a fan group is amusing.
Me, I'm a fan of using the best available tool for each job.
What group does that put me in?
When I get root to my wireless Sony Mylo, that runs Linux and Skype and Opera, why will I even need a workstation?
I saw a good fold-out keyboard on a prototype handheld... wait is using your hands to work just for poor people now?
I love computers but feel tethered to a desk like a turn-of-the-last-century loom. A laptop still feels like a shackle or at best a football.
weave weave weave still waiting for the 3rd generation sinclair style handheld
Barking to the tune of his master's voice.
Surprise? Not really.
is not a "special interest feature."
Apple could have killed about 20 birds with one stone if they had polished their internal SDK up a bit and released it with the iPhone. Instead they chose to massively insult their developer crowd at WWDC by passing off AJAX as a "sweet solution." What happens to their "sweet solution" when there is no network available?
Ballmer may be a whackjob, but he's right about four things: "Developers, developers, developers, developers." Without those, your "smart" product looks pretty dumb.
What is the upshot of all this? A closed box with fancy tricks is not worth $499. An open box with OSX running underneath it that can run a Skype client (appealing to personal users), a variety of media players (appealing to personal users), games that actually make use of the hardware (appealing to personal users) and other things we haven't even thought of yet *IS* worth $499.
+++ATH0
Who's "most people?" You and your friends?
I think you are missing the reason clubs and bars make so much money.
+++ATH0
Apple has a history of doing what it takes. If "negotiations broke down", it probably means Verizon wanted them to compromise on something that would prevent the iPhone from being the iPhone. If it wasn't good enough for Apple, I don't see why any of us would be happier with it.
The speed of a network can be improved by adding/fixing hardware. The willingness of the people running a network to allow for new features they haven't thought of, can't.
Besides, if I had a penny for every slashdot comment claiming to know how to manage Apple's product line better than Steve Jobs...
Sorry, I had to stop reading when I read this:
"Apple's AirPort introduced a mainstream audience to WiFi wireless networking."
I'm sorry, what? I would wager that 80% of people using WiFi today have never seen an AirPort or used one knowingly. What percentage of the home WiFi (not to mention business) access points are Linksys (Cisco) or Netgear? Is Apple AirPort even in the top 5 behind Belkin, D-Link and the other two big guys?
Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
What Samsung Windows Mobile device do you have? What do you want to know how to do on it? I'll explain it to you.
It costs MORE than $499? My Cingular 8525, which I suspect is better-featured than your Samsung device, ran me $430.
The ONLY undesirable thing about WM on smartphones right now is that their UI is still stuck in the stylus era. Once Microsoft wakes up and comes out with a standardized fingertip interface, if Apple insists on keeping the iPhone's API closed, MS will trundle right over them and relegate the iPhone to the world of the Newton.
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a whole new "standard" that doesn't work when there is no network present.
A lot of people seem to be missing this, probably because Steve glossed over it real fast at WWDC.
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And what phantom dev kit are these phantom developers going to write their phantom apps with?
Even if someone found a way to transfer unsigned binaries to the iPhone and even if they could find a way to get the iPhone to run them, how are they going to produce software that works with the UI? We have NO IDEA how Apple has changed or hasn't changed the API of OSX for the iPhone. It could just be "remove a lot of stuff and then recompile for an ARM target," or it could be "remove and CHANGE almost EVERYTHING, then compile for ARM" or anything in-between.
There will be no real apps to speak of. Mark my words.
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Greetings. I also hate the Iphone. Can I join your club? ps. linux is good!!
By the time AT&T improves their network speed to that of Verizon's (requiring a gigantic investment), Apple will be selling version 17 of the iPhone (assuming that most buyers of versions 1-16 don't care about useful internet speed). It's already been widely publicized why "negotiations broke down," it was Apple's hubris and greed.
Doug Jensen
it's an amalgam of two people with an axe to grind about ATT, notes from some bloggers, and the non-starter about Apple not being ready for enterprise, which Apple is not going for, at least this round.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
IT administrators can kill a Treo - but it's 3rd party software - oh wait, that won't work with the IPhone - no 3rd party software. As to the installation of the Palm desktop requiring administrator privileges - no need to bother with the Palm desktop software - it only sorta works on Vista anyway.
That article was completely biased towards the iPhone even though the author has never even used one. So many people entirely miss the point of what a Smartphone is supposed to be for the corporate world. I feel like the problem truly is that most, like the author of this article, have never used a Windows Mobile 5/6 Smartphone/PPC in a properly set up environment. Most people in fact that have used a Blackberry or Windows Mobile phone have never used them with an Exchange server or BES. Until you have used a WM5/6 phone with an Exchange 2003/7 server, I don't think that you are ready to actually critique the usefulness of Microsoft's platform.
This article advocates that the corporate world should accept the iPhone with open arms against the analysts wishes. Although the article makes this claim, the iPhone doesn't support the most basic requirements of an enterprise-grade Smartphone's purpose; over-the-air Groupware/PIM! Without supporting OTA PIM, I can't leave the office and continue working effectively...
From what we know so far, the iPhone doesn't support any of these features, even when used in conjunction with a Mac OS X 10.5 Server. Until the iPhone can meet my basic PIM needs, I have no reason to consider it instead of my HTC TyTN running WM6 Pro, and I feel that businesses need to reconsider the iPhone for these same reasons.
With all that said, I love what the iPhone is doing to stir up the Smartphone business! Hopefully all manufacturers will take notice of the iPhone's interface and start competing with creative new designs that will eventually benefit all consumers.
An SDK is not a "special interest feature."
Look, I've done mobile development. I want an SDK badly.
But an SDK not being a "special interest feature"? Come on, you know 99% of phone buyers are not going to be developing thier own applications.
As for buying or using other apps, that's where you get into the greay area of how many apps people buy today are replacable with web based versions, how many Apple will bring to market for third parties, and how useful the internal applications are (since Windows Mobile users I know are mostly buying apps to replace built-in phone applications which are terrible).
As SDk is delightful but there are other ways to fulfil the general needs an SDK addresses without offering an SDK to everyone.
In time, I'm sure we'll have a fuller SDK - but in the meantime the compromise offered will be good enough to fill many application needs, at least all the ones I had ever bought for the Palm.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have used the "tactile keyboards" on many small devices, from pagers to cellphones. I find them horrible. I was waiting for a treo without a keypad that was Jot only - but it never came, and so I am now going to get an iPhone.
What good is tactillity with such small keys? I really don't see a problem with an on-screen keyboard once you get used to the spacing, which is the key for most typing anyway. The tactility helps you get used to the spacing earlier I believe, but is not in the end what really allows you to type quickly.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So you are saying Palm software does not require admin rights to install? I have never installed Palm software on Windows, so I have no idea - but after seeing what the Mac installer for Palm Desktop does this would not surprise me.
As for iTunes, many people have it installed already, there's really no need for IT to do so.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
A wholly owned subsidiary of Steve Ballmer's nutsack? Gee who didn't see that coming?
While I agree the EDGE 2.5 sux, I'll also guarantee that you'd not only pay more at Verizon, but the iPhone would probably not have the WiFi enabled. Every Verizon phone I've seen has been locked down so you can't transfer mp3s or pics or anything in and out w/out going thru some sort of extra service, which will cost ya.
While Verizon's data network is better, their policies and disdain for their customers is the worst of all the mobile carriers. I'm glad the deal with Apple didn't work out.
When you're dealing with the mobile carriers, it's always the lesser of all evils.
Apart from the high likleyhood of AT&T having unlimited data plans for the iPhone (I am guessing all plans with unlimited data) which others have mentioned, why do you and so many others forget the iPhone has WiFi? Don't you spend a lot of the day around WiFi areas? I know I do. In much day to day use I'll not even be using AT&T's data networks (which I am sure they will be grateful for).
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So I'm remaining skeptical until long term sales figures are available. From the spec to-date it doesn't appear the iPhone has any features not found on other phones for some time now
Sure doesn't seem to. But then you see this, and say - where else can I have something like that now? You just can't.
We tech users should know better than most that specs and ground truth do not always concur.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I think this is spot on. If you look how Verizon 'locks' all their phones, then I'm sure they wanted some ridiculous disabling of the iPhone. Yah, Verizon is absolutely the worst.
True enough...I really use EVDO's data rates and have to put up with Verizon Wireless in return. Since I am in EVDO coverage at least 100x more time than in wi-fi coverage, I have had to make a deal with the devil. But of course, buying iPods (which I do) and iPhones (which I won't) is making a deal with the devil also (non-replaceable batteries, etc., you know the drill).
Doug Jensen
Apparently their server runs on an iPhone.
The cell phone salesmen at the local mall couldn't get a signal, either. "Could you demonstrate that phone?" "Nope".
To be fair, there were lots of locations in the San Jose area where there was plenty of signal. It was just the places where I lived, worked, and shopped that were in dead zones.
So I changed to Verizon. Got a Motorola V710; it was the only thing they had at the time that supported Bluetooth. Yeah, right. Dislike the phone, dislike the provider - but they do have good signal strength everywhere I go.
Anyway, no matter how much the IPhone may walk on water - it's still on the Cingular (AT&T) network, and they've still got dead zones everyplace that I'm likely to be. So I won't buy one; it looks very attractive and undoubtedly is leaps and bounds more friendly than this Motorola piece. But they hooked up with a (in this area, anyway) substandard provider so it's useless to me.
Having a full browser on a phone is compelling for corporate users. It expands possibilities for intranet applications, as well as just using the full web when necessary. I have a Blackberry Pearl, which is a fantastic device, but beyond reading content on web sites, it's not much use on the web, just like every other smart phone. Being able to fill out web forms and use drop downs, etc., is major for the corporate road warrior. All Apple needs to do is match what Blackberry has done in Exchange integration and it's a corporate home run. As for it being too expensive, the Razr was $500 at introduction and it flew of the shelves. To reiterate, the browser is the iPhone's killer app and should not be underestimated.
Nope. What we have been seeing for all these months is the perfect ad storm. Virtually no real information has been revealed. It has all been pure speculation and hype. I wonder how many will die in the stampede. The absurdity is overwhelming. Like watching chickens in the slaughterhouse fighting over a crumb of food.
What?
Can we please stop issuing story after story on this thing until it actually comes out?
I'm a big fan of Apple's products, and have been almost exclusively using apple PCs since the 90s. Granted, I'm not loaded with cash, and don't rush to the nearest store anytime Apple releases a product (the longevity of their machines perhaps the biggest selling point for me. My 1999 450mhz PowerMac G4 is still chugging along, running the latest release of OS X 10.4. It's outlived my car.)
But I digress. The level of press coverage the iPhone is receiving is insane and disproportionate. I could easily deal with a flurry of press coverage around the time of the announcement, and shortly after the release (reviews, and first impressions). However, the level of hype and idle speculation building up is absurd for a product that hasn't even been released yet.
Yes. I appreciate that the iPhone is one of the first smartphones to get a properly-designed UI that wasn't created by a group of telco accountants (anybody who's ever had to deal with Verizon's "standard" UI knows exactly what I'm talking about). It could even very well revolutionize the mobile phone industry, (finally) bringing it into the data age.
It's also extremely expensive, and there's no way in hell I'll be able to afford one, or even remotely justify the cost. Remember that the iPod didn't achieve massive widespread popularity until the prices dropped considerably.
However, none of this has happened yet. It hasn't been released. Let's just hold onto our horses, wait a week, and conclusively answer these questions once the damn thing is in stores. You're all setting yourselves up for a massive letdown.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
Roughly Drafted posting a glowing report on the iPhone? I am absolutely shocked.
Admitedly I haven't actually read the article, but I know I'm right on this one.
and totally irrelevant. Thanks for playing, though.
Actually, my favorite complaint is when people whine about how their cell phones have taken over their lives. There is one incredible feature all cell phones share: THE POWER SWITCH.
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But an SDK not being a "special interest feature"? Come on, you know 99% of phone buyers are not going to be developing thier own applications.
The SDK is not for the 99% of phone buyers. It is for the 1% of people who know how to use it. That way that 99% of phone buyers has other applications to use on their phones.
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beer is more important to you than people.
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And the hackers would have released hundreds of "Applications" for the iPhone that bricked it.
From what orifice did you pluck this phantom boogeyman? There are about 12 applications on my Cingular 8525 and none of those "bricked it." There is a huge market of 3rd party applications for Palm and WM and none of those brick phones. Get real.
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The way you said it, the SDK would be a major reason why no one would be buying an iPhone when you know FULL WELL that most people don't even know what an SDK is and will be buying the iPhone ANYWAY.
How many people who own Palm OS Treos or Windows Mobile Phones or Symbian Nokia phones install 3rd party apps on their own? 4% of the userbase? 10%?
Please explain how in ANY way THAT would be a barrier to consumer adoption of the iPhone!
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
that people are interested in Treos or WM phones precisely BECAUSE they can customize them as they will and install software like games and productivity applications onto them.
Otherwise, they might as well get a RAZR.
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is not better than the iPod. But a touch-optimized Windows Mobile will be better than this non-solution Apple have put on the iPhone.
Also, Dashboard widgets are really not good enough for the lion's share of useful applications a person might want to put on their phone.
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A regular corporate IT department does not need to worry about installing the Palm Desktop Conduit. This was a problem in the past where Palm devices did not have cellular coverage and needed some base to communicate. Today, many people who do use Palm OS devices own a Treo 650 or later, which support the Good Messaging Platform, which delivers the same functionality as the Blackberry Enterprise Server without the vendor lock-in.
As I said before, the only people that will have a specific need for the software will be those that have Palm devices that cannot connect to any networks, and IT departments usually take care of this by disallowing such devices (except for very selective circumstances, which are very easy to solve anyway).
Another thing; why is anyone making arguments against corporate use of the iPhone in the first place? This phone was meant for personal use! I can understand that unaware Microsoft shills want to use baseless claims against the product, but this is quite asinine. If Apple wanted to compete with the Blackberry, I doubt that it would get this much press anyway (think about it: how much press has the Blackberry 8800 been getting outside of the corporate circle?).
Other than that, this article is very, very good. However, I'm getting quite tired of the iPhone speculation, since we will not truly see the (social/economical/corporate) effects of the phone until many months after its first production run. As for me, I'll stick with my trusty Treo 650 until it breaks, and then I'll get a Treo 700 to match it!
You mean to say: "religious fanaticism over matters of technology is the way of ignorance."
I want one NOW !! Sign me up for two years !! I don't care !! I've waited 35 years for one !! I'll be the talk of the party now !! I an so KOOL !!
Seriously can someone name any truly useful apps that aren't included with the iPhone that don't require EDGE anyways?
I work in a real estate office of about 50 people. Around 30 or so of them have Treos. A few others have Blackberries. Very few have just plain old regular cell phones. You want to know why these folks got Treos? Because they had Palm PDAs before hand and got tired of carrying around a Palm PDA AND a Cell Phone. The overwhelming majority of them don't even Install the Palm Desktop software to sync with their computers and install new apps. This is not a rare occurance. People in other offices act this way as well. This is the NORM. Getting people to sync things is DIFFICULT. You have to give them a reason to do so, something better than "it provides you with a data backup in case your device crashes and loses all its data." I've tried and tried and tried to get people to install their Palm Desktop software to no avail. Want to know one thing they DO have on their computers? iTunes which just so happens to sync with the iPod and iPhone.
The number of people who actually install 3rd party applications onto Palm OS/WM smartphones has been GROSSLY over estimated. The bare basic PIM functions of these smartphones is all most of these folks are looking for. With the Smartphone we had gone from 2 devices to 1 but then the iPod came out bringing us back to 2 devices. For some folks who haven't upgraded to Smartphones yet they're actually still at 3 devices now. The iPhone is THE convergence device that will bring nearly everyone back to having just one device. And Apple will be able to intice more people to install 3rd party applications onto their iPhones than all other smartphones COMBINED.
So to recap, the lack of an SDK here is a non-event. Its totally immaterial. It just doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. The iPhone is going to sell like hotcakes, out selling all other smartphones individually and combined because of its INTERFACE, not because you can or cannot install 3rd party apps on it from launch.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
Are you aware that desktop computer sales in the entire industry are down vs laptop sales? Apple is focusing where the money is, on laptops. Desktops are thus not in the limelight anymore. But they DO recieve regular updates. A quarter delay in new desktops however is not a big issue. Apple entireing a new line of business that in just a few years could DOUBLE the earnings of the company _IS_ a big deal.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
In 2-3 years, iPhones will be like cellphones or Internet access today, a vital tool, where not having one will adversely affect career prospects with being unable to do basic communication. Even though Apple missed the first connectivity wave with the Internet (although they caught up and Macs had webservers like MacHTTP before MS decided to make IIS), Apple will have its own connectivity wave with the iPhone's communication abilities. Businesses who currently use Exchange or Blackberry servers will either have to accommodate the iPhone or lose customers or employees for people that do. People who desire to keep employable in IT will have an iPhone, just like people currently keep a cellphone or Blackberry to answer E-mails.
What is ironic is that the iPhone detractors are just your run of the mill anti-Apple bigots who are be similar to the buffoons who sport Zunes and not iPods... just people to be snickered at or pitied. Its pretty much a conclusion by anyone who has a clue in the computer or telecommunications industry that the iPhone will push out the competitors to the fringes, just as the iPod revolutionized the MP3 player industry.
Its simple... buy an iPhone, or be run over by your competitors, both other companies or other people who use it. If you don't obtain an iPhone, get used to having jobs, clients and contracts taken by people who do.
If you reload the same software and it happens again and again, guess what? You're an idiot and at some point you stop receiving support for that problem.
If the iPhone performs beautifully out of the box, and you install something on it and it starts crashing, it's not hard to figure out why it's crashing, is it?
Besides, if other posters are correct in saying that most users DON'T install new applications on their devices (which I still don't buy, but for the sake of argument), then how can this ever be a problem? The people who do install things in the first place are going to be the most technical and the easiest to walk through a troubleshooting process.
This is not rocket science. Customer support is an art that has been practiced for decades. The standard reply can even be "press the software reload button in iTunes." Presto -- fixed.
+++ATH0
Apple related threads sound like we're not talking about consumer products: even the naysayers sometime seem to be their own kind of zealots. Those may be good or even great products (didn't try), but still, it is mainly a marketing strategy.
The way I look at it is the following:
+ nice UI
+ nice screen
+ small
+ nice music/video player
+ looks good
- very expensive compared to other phones
- no 3G
- no unlocking or portability to other carriers
- no GPS
- forced to use, and register with, iTunes
- no touch typing
- bad camera
- two year lock
- very limited programmability
- I don't like being lied to by Jobs about why the iPhone isn't programmable
Lack of programmability means that I don't get a number of things I have had on every phone for the last several years: an open source password safe, an SSH and VNC client, and a good e-book reader.
I expect that there will be a whole range of really exciting new phones coming out, some of which have been in the pipeline, and others inspired by the iPhone. I think this is the wrong time to lock myself into a 2 year contract, in particular at that price.
SInce WIndows Mobile and the Treo and Blackberry have been around forever, by now then the ability to install third party apps must have delivered many killer apps, each selling above a million or so.
Name them. If third party apps are really so important, name the ones that a majority of the smartphone market finds indespensible.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
than "local web pages." You need an entire CGI infrastructure to make local AJAX applications work (c.f. the "Google Gears" project).
I would assume it would not support this because a) GOOGLE has yet to get it working and b) If it was possible, Steve would have been talking it up at WWDC.
I assume this is Daniel Eran from RD posting, if so, good to talk to you again -- I've posted a couple comments on your blog that you've responded to and emails that you've also responded to. Let me make one thing absolutely clear -- I am not a knee-jerk Apple hater; quite the contrary -- I own a Macbook Pro which I ADORE and an eMac I rescued from my university's trash heap.
The thing that keeps galling me about the iPhone is the "could-have-beens." People have been speculating about and hoping for some kind of "pocket Mac" or "new Newton" for years, on the assertion that a machine like this running OSX would have all kinds of possibilities. Now, here we have just such a machine, and Apple is telling us that instead of being a powerful tool, it's going to be a shiny toy, and we'll like it that way. Despite the fact that there is nothing but software in the way of the iPhone's potential. It is enormously frustrating. As someone who considers himself at least on the level of "power user," it frustrated me when I heard there would be no SDK, but it really felt like a slap in the face when Steve Jobs had the balls to get up on the stage at WWDC and pretend that AJAX was something new and uniquely Apple.
I'm sure the iPhone will be a stunning success, but I have a feeling we'll still be sitting here waiting for Apple to rescue us from Windows Mobile for a long, long time.
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why was the opportunity for 3rd party software ever presented to customers? You make it sound as though there are absolutely no positives. I'm really interested in how you support this position.
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... - a real geek phone would fit in a CF socket so you could drop it into any device you like, and come with an unlimited high speed data plan as standard.You mean like this?
Ok, it's only GPRS speed, but it does fit in a CF socket. And you have to get your own data plan.
You must be new here.
(Hint: Check out the "Preferences" tab on your user page.)
The thing DOES have WiFi, after all.
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Done right they're a great idea. The problem is for the most part they're not an easy thing to install for regular users. As I've said to you before most folks don't even sync their smartphones/PDAs with the provided syncing software. In order to install programs you have to be doing that much at least first.
Palm and Microsoft thought, rightly so, that if they could turn their respective products into large platforms that attracted large numbers of developers that users would follow. It turns out however that most users were simply intersted in the basic functions of the devices, Calenders, Addressbook, ToDos, Memos and not much else. I even had to show my co-workers how to install Google Maps on their devices and that can be done straight on the device via the web browser going to http://www.google.com/gmm
I personally on my Treo 700p have over a dozen 3rd party apps installed. I've been a Smartphone user for the past 5 years. I started with the Palm OS Kyocera 6035 green brick phone, then the clamshell Palm OS Kyocera 7135. than the Handspring Treo 600, Palm Treo 650 and now Palm Treo 700p. I have ALWAYS had to show others with these same devices how to install programs or setup their email. Its just flat out not easy for regular folks. I'm a geek. I suspect you are a geek as well. We like to tinker and figure this stuff out, everyone else doesn't have the patience. Thats where the iPhone comes in.
The iPhone makes it BRAIN dead easy to use and install 3rd party apps. Apple will make it as easy as can be as most app installation and phone OS updates will take place via iTunes. The phone will also sync with Outlook on PCs for PIM functions and Addressbook, Mail.app and iCal on the Mac for PIM functions. Right now my Treo 700p is my convergence device. I have a 2GB SD card in it and I use it to play MP3s so its a phone, PDA and "iPod" for me as I can sync it on my Mac with iTunes using a program called "The Missing Sync." Its just nowhere near as elegant as an iPhone would be. I pretty much FULLY use my Treo. Very few regular folks who own Treos do the same. The same goes for Windows Mobile device folks. With the iPhone regular folks will get more full use of their device than they would with anything else. So I am pretty confident in predicting that the iPhone will see exponentially higher 3rd party software usage by regular folks than all other smartphones/PDAs combined. Its only a matter of time for Apple to lineup the big players in the software industry to provide iPhone versions of their apps and offer them all via iTunes. None of this hunt and peck stuff we currently do with current Smartphones of going to this software vendor's website or that software vendor's website. It'll all be centralized via iTunes. AJax/Safari apps on the other hand will still utilize the "hunt and peck" method of distribution as Steve himself mentioned during the keynote when he said the apps will be offered from the developers own servers.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
...then don't RTFA. You don't have to read an comment on every article in slashdot. I understand that people are getting sick of the overhype, and that that itself is becomming the news story, but this product is undeniably is at the center of something interesting. I can think of few recent announcements that mattered so much to nerds, so let us have our news for nerds and if you're sick of joining in then read another FA.
Y'all think this was Apple's motivation, and did hackers fall for the bait?
The iPod has come a long way in audio quality since gen 1, but its relatively decent 83dB S/N ratio (shown here) gets flat-out whupped by the plainly excellent 98 dB S/N ratio of the Zen Xtra (here).
I'm guessing, from the mac.com address, that you'll either argue against this solid evidence with mac-protecting nonsense or not respond.
It's okay to buck the trend and admit two things:
1) It was a joke.
2) Apple is not always the best at everything. They are a company that, like many others, sells things manufactured by third parties in China, and, as with other companies, real-world cost-considerations come into play along with the limitations of their designers and engineers.
The second is probably harder to admit.
Happy dining...
If it's any consolation your post is the only post in this thread I've found easy to agree with.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
Seriously can someone name any truly useful apps that aren't included with the iPhone that don't require EDGE anyways?
You've got to be kidding me. You guys seriously don't get it.
Need I continue? It's not like the iPhone is the most feature rich hardware out there. Sure, it looks great and it has a big, fast hard drive for a phone, but without apps it's a limited, overpriced toy.
I've been using Macs exclusively for a decade. I've owned several iPods, half a dozen Macs, I have a iPod Hi-Fi wired to an Airport express, I've spent hundreds on iPod accessories, and of course, I've been waiting on the iPhone ever since Apple registered the iphone.org domain years ago. Every mobile I've ever purchased cost at least as much as the iPhone and I'm already on Cingular. I *am* the target market.
I purchased a Nokia N95 over a month ago. It has all of the above software and tons more. I passed on the iPhone for *one* reason: No SDK.
That should really tell you something... The iPhone is doomed. Mac users are not all Koolaid drinking retards. I buy Macs because I feel they represent the best hardware/software combination available anywhere. The iPhone is clearly not the best hardware around. The mobile market is very competitive. The software on the other hand is classic Apple. Beautiful, easy to use... but without an SDK, the software is feature frozen. It's the best it's ever going to get the day you buy it.
I would have been willing to overlook the hardware shortcomings had there been any possibility of third party development. Instead, I chose to spend $150 more on a competitor's product. It was a no brainer. Better hardware, and software that can do things the iPhone will never be able to do. Fax, print, java, flash, PDFs, DOCs, XLSs, GPS, VOIP, Salling clicker, and it syncs nicely with iSync. Who's gonna buy the one trick pony when you can do so much more for an extra $150? Certainly not me. And if not the die-hard Apple fanatic like myself, then who will be spending hundreds on an Apple phone that does four things well? Probably the same folks that bought a G4 cube.
Really, this is the kind of article I love with Roughly Drafted. It's outright advocacy, but not of the sort that can be ignored as simple enthusiasm. There has been an extraordinary bunch of criticism of a product that has not appeared, usually with people exclaiming, "But how can you be so positive? It hasn't appeared yet!" Well, that's true for both sides, of course. And, the basic point is that every objection you can make with the iPhone can also be said, in spades, for Windows Mobile and the Zune, and yet no boycotts were proposed for that, were they?
I certainly agree with you that there may be some deficits, particularly in early versions. I'm not spending my money on the 29th, at least. But I'm also glad to see the end game of this creativity: other smartphone makers will be forced to step up their games.
From the extensive needs you have of specific functions, it's probably true that you won't be well served by an iPhone. I think, frankly, Apple has its eye on a broader public than enterprise. MS keeps its eye on you and your needs. But there are, right now, a billion people who use cells; the market is very large. Maybe Apple will develop cheaper phones, iPods really, and more business-oriented software, I don't know. But I absolutely love the way they shake up a market. Whatever kind of phone you want -- and are you sure you don't want a small notebook? -- you're more likely to get it after the iPhone hits.
Another fella in another thread this week pointed this out as well (and at length), and it is important. Being able to brick a Blackberry whenever an admin needs to (and not have it overridden) is one of the reasons why this isn't appropriate for the corporate user.
?
I mean really. Here's a phone where you have to buy a plan just to get it. And the killer app is - being able to talk to other people on the phone? Via a third party app?
Skype is the killer app on a palmtop, or PDA. Not on a PHONE where I can simply use the PHONE to talk to other people with PHONES.
Except Skype is not even the killer app for those small devices, because access is way more spotty than a normal cell phone. Real people. and by real I mean non-geeks, will not easily accept the limitations and annoyances of Skype. My mother uses skype for conference calls since she works at home, and even on a desktop it has... hiccups. She would not wish it for a real phone where it had to have any reliablity at all.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Because the other 99% will use the applications developed by that 1%
What proof have you of this? The reality is that the 1% MAYBE will use the app the other 1% is developing. If you have a huge breakout hit, MAYBE 10% might actually use it. The rest of the userbase? They just want a phone with good contact management?
The only exception to that rule, is games, whcih Apple is already developing and is hardly a need.
Seriously, show me even a single mobile app with great sales figures. Just one!
You are insane if you think the iPhone will be limited in success just because the lame apps you and I want to develop cannot run native from the start, and instead must be converted to lame web pages at the moment.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
of talk minutes.
+++ATH0
Are you saying you have no use for an ssh client, an AIM client, or any number of other services on your Blackberry?
I also submit to you that "those who are trying to break away from the Windows cycle" are on average more technology-savvy than the average bear themselves.
I am in fact pining for an escape from Windows Mobile. Until the free software I use on my Windows Mobile PDA is available on the iPhone, however, the iPhone isn't it.
+++ATH0
And they are irrelevant, most people have more than they need. I certainly do. A plan with more minutes than I talk is, in effect, a plan with no limits.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Most people, they go home, they go to work, lather rinse repeat.
If there is WiFi at home, and WiFi at work... you have it almost everywhere. In transit, you usually don't need vast bandwidth, and EDGE is perfectly sufficent for most things. I know becaues we live in Denver where we have no 3G coverage and friends with Windows Mobile can stream video from home. I don't really need that ability, but it shows the bandwith of EDGE is not as crippling as some would have you believe.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Others have suggested that this is only Apple's opening salvo; that they will release the iPhone as it is now as a kind of "shakedown cruise" to work out any bugs and build its reputation as a rock-stable device, then after a while release the SDK and tout it as some kind of "new" technology. I hope this is precisely what happens. If it is, Apple will almost certainly be able to count me as a customer. If nothing else, I'd be thrilled to have a PDA phone that talks to Address Book and iCal (without third-party hackery as an intermediary). But I'm not hopeful. As I've said before, the "great" thing about being pessimistic about the intersection of business interests and technological development is that 90% of the time, you're right.
I'm not sure "what you want to do with a mobile." But right now my Cingular 8525 smartphone is better than or equal to the iPhone for what *I* want to do -- email, IM, phone/text/voice, music and movie playback, games, writing (yes, I actually do some writing in Pocket Word) and remote administration (with ssh and VNC) -- costs less and doesn't demand that I pay for a data plan just to run it on the network.
I really look forward to the day that this isn't the case, but that day is not today,
+++ATH0
"It's" == "it is".
my plan is $39.99, gives me 400 minutes, and I don't use them all because I either use Gtalk or Skype to communicate in other ways. And if you plan to get the iPhone, plan on also adding an extra, needless $39.99 for "unlimited" data that I don't have to pay for either.
+++ATH0
Its only a matter of time for Apple to lineup the big players in the software industry to provide iPhone versions of their apps and offer them all via iTunes.
.exe file and double-clicking it to install is "just flat out not easy for regular folks."
Yes, when they charge $50 for Skype, $25 for ssh and $70 for VNC, we'll all be singing the praises of this wonderful Apple-approved system.
Please explain to me how downloading an
Everyone is used to that particular software distribution model; it's how Windows has been doing things for 15 years.
+++ATH0
I've had WM 5 crash on me precisely once. WM 6 is apparently nearly crash-proof. When MS figures out how to do a touch interface rather than a pen interface, maybe something wonderful will happen and Apple will find itself forced to open its SDK to compete.
+++ATH0
not that people wouldn't buy it. They will, and they'll be paying much more than the thing is actually worth.
Also, the interface is the same as that for Dashboard widgets, but that doesn't help you when the application dies as soon as you lose your network connection.
If Apple was implementing something like Google Gears on the iPhone -- or a local Widget engine -- it MIGHT be worth the money. It would still be lame, but this giant weakness that the device has at least wouldn't be there.
Have fun coding something like a game in AJAX, though.
+++ATH0
I thought it just didn't sell?
+++ATH0
Wouldn't a serious user of email use their desktop for the task? Isn't email on smartphones (not just the iPhone) for those who have to answer some particular email no matter where they are, no matter the time?
Engadget is now on its best behavior, a 360 degree change from its earlier role ...
360 degree = 0 degree = no change. It should be 180 degree.
Pot and kettle syndrome with the IT management section. For someone who really is trying to dispel myth and rumour, they certainly like to generate it for other products. The comment about blackberry - why would Apple add revocation and other large scale enterprise features to a phone thats targetted at a personal user audience? "Installation of iTunes, which users can manage themselves." - irrelevant, most enterprises will not allow iTunes, having to back up relevant business data takes precedence, along with patch management. Being biased supporting a very large scale MS exchange enterprise, i fully disagree with the completely innaccurate: "Windows Mobile similarly requires ActiveSync to be running, and is a huge headache to support when synching with Exchange. Windows Mobile phones fall out of sync with Exchange regularly, forcing a full deletion of the user's calendar and email and a resync." No, wrong on both counts. Activesync is not mandatory to use a WM device as a phone and pda, and not everyone uses their mobile to its fullest extent like we geeks do. We have Blackberry and WM devices - roughly equal in the numbers we have deployed. Believe me, if WM devices fell out of sync "regularly", we'd drop it and go completely blackberry. WM2003 may have done this, but aren't we supposed to be comparing like for like technology? WM5 and 6 don't do this "regularly"
Seriously. The Segway and Zune hype died as soon as they were shown to the public. At the very least, the iPhone hype remains even after being publicly demoed and touched by a pittance of tech reviewers at Macworld.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
The reason the iPhone will work is the exact same reason the iPod did. Its nothing to do with having a million features and supporting every standard there is. The iPod is one of the most simple Mp3 players there is- and before I got one I hated the thought of it and bought a 20GB iRiver that has ogg, optical in and optical out, had radio, a mic etc etc. It did pretty much everything and yet all i used it for was to play music. I bought an iPod mini for a present for someone and once I tried it I had to get myself one. And did I miss ogg, radio, optical in/out? Not at all.
The iPhone isn't for geeks (though im sure most geeks will love it). Its for my mum, and my brother and my sister and aunt etc. Its going be simple and its going to work. Why would apple create some complex super phone for the small geek market when it can create a simple but brilliant phone for the masses? I love having lots of features, its why I have the N95 phone, but all I use it for is Voice, Text, Camera and Wi-fi. The 1001 other features it has is never used and the phone is unresponsive and slow and crashes. I just want a phone that can do the main features GOOD, and I'm guessing that most people (non-slashdoters that is) will want the same.
UI is everything. The iPod demonstrated that, and for all the people that complain there is too much hype over this phone, remember that apple didn't create this hype, its the reputation of their past products that did.
1) Company needs OTA groupware. They don't buy an iPhone: they use WM/Blackberry/etc
2) Company doesn't need OTA groupware. They buy whatever phones they can get cheap that work as a basic phone. They don't buy an iPhone.
3) Company doesn't need OTA groupware but decides that it's bored of making money for its shareholders, and buys everyone an iPhone for shits and giggles.
4) Company doesn't need OTA groupware, but does have a pressing need for its employees to be able to listen to MP3s all day, post pictures to Flickr and mess with Google Maps. They buy the iPhone.
I don't know about you, but 3) and 4) don't seem to be a huge demographic...
Dan,
Keep writing those articles. I personally enjoy reading them.
In an internet full of WinPC articles, it's nice to read a second opinion from the other side.
And you do not mask that you do like Macs. Others, mask their motives.
Peace!
Please explain to me how downloading an .exe file and double-clicking it to install is "just flat out not easy for regular folks."
Alright. Its hard. They don't do it. If it wasn't hard, more Smartphone owners would do it.
Can you please explain to me why so few Smartphone/PDA users install 3rd party apps on their own?
BTW, of the 3 apps you mentioned, only Skype is a consumer application. The other two, ssh and VNC are programs that the average person would never seek to use. You are still in the geek mindset here. Its hard to get out of that mindset at times isn't it?
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
The iMac was the first personal computer to really introduce the mainstream to USB, back in 1997. I remember how nuts people thought Apple were. But the USB market was catalyzed by that first step.
-Stu
They are about this big. Can we now PLEASE, as a culture, move on?
If my CEO gets one and hooks it into our mail systems, and then it gets stolen (Remember when iPods were new and they were getting stolen all the time?), how am I going to remotely wipe all of the data from it?
How am I going to remotely enforce security on the device?
etc. etc. etc.
When apple provides a method for these to be centrally managed (whether using blackberry connect or mobile 5/6), come speak to I.T. about supporting them. Until then, go away.
-Lokatana
Wow... Two informative links, a bit of ribbing for someone joking about eating an iPod box, and a Flamebait mod...
Seriously, people, there is one mad Apple-lovin' bias rolling around here. I'd love for someone to roughly classify posts as pro or anti-Apple and watch their moderation over time. As Apple ascends to being the next Microsoft (in the eyes of this group), will it be a soft turn in moderation or a hard flip as the prevailing sentiment changes?
This was, humorously enough, a mod of a reply to someone citing the "Don't be a mod from the short bus link." Honestly, this kind of moderation was to be expected, but one can dream, right?
While IMAP and POP are supported by Exchange and Notes (and don't really require a seperate server), the issue is security. Many corporate environments only expose their email systems over VPN. BlackBerry and Microsoft Direct Push use certificate authentication & transport encryption, effectively giving a similar level of security to a normal VPN.
This approach is a lot harder to brute-force , and renders dictionary-attacks useless -- social engineering becomes the more effective way to circumvent.
-Stu
In a correctly configured corporate network, individual users should not have rights to install any software. Desktop users should be running as "user" without administrator rights. This prohibits them from installing software that modifies windows or programs -- it also protects them against most viruses. In general, users should not be about to install any software other than corporate approved. Most companies have a standard image that does or doesn not include software like itunes. In many environments that isn't any need for itunes so it would not be installed.
Actually on the mac there is the same issue... individual users should not have the "admin" password so they will need IT support to install software like itunes (if not pre-installed).
The general answer is that Apple doesn't get corporate. This is the reason that Macs are so rare in corporate (> 500 employees) environments.
You forgot the ability to remotely wipe a corporate phone. The windows devices have the ability on the next connect to be remotely wiped so sensitive data is protected. Not perfect, but generally better than the alternatives. (I guess the "Jame Bond-like" remote self-destruct would be a better option, but might raise some other concerns.)
Thanks, Bonobo, I do find that consoling. It's sad to be in such a minority even on Slashdot these days. I guess I'll save any future rants about free software for some venue not dominated by fans of corporate Amerika...
Let me remind you that neither this site, nor Linux, would exist without RMS's principles.
Bullshit.
I was using and writing free software, open source software, whatever you call it, long before RMS had his hissy-cow about Emacs getting forked and wrote the GNU manifesto. RMS has been given credit for too much stuff that was happening anyway.
If it wasn't for RMS, we'd be running this stuff on BSD instead of Linux, that's all.
If true, that's still a step up. Most cell providers seem to take the "do not do anything that could remove revenue from our network!" approach. (Admittedly, I might be affected more by close proximity to Verizon. ;-) ) A hardware manufacturer's saying "look, if we can make hardware compelling enough to pull subscribers TO your network from another one or keep them from moving, then that is MUCH more valuable to you!" makes the situation better for ALL hardware manufacturers.
Horrible media scene of Mac which apple.slashdot.org can't find unbiased articles to post is another factor.
Fanboys [...] your madness. [...] more mad. Just because they don't want iTunes competitors working inside Mini Safari of iPhone... IMHO of course.
I am not calling for boycott, I am just preventing my friends and family from falling into Apple's trick and buy iPhone Yeah, you're obviously not a hater.
You can't take the sky from me...
naysayer. Admit it, the iPhone will outsell all other smartphones combined, despite your reasons to the contrary. I'll make sure to check back with you in a month or so, just to see how you take your eggs...
I think it's more likely that Verizon wouldn't allow the flexibility of the iPhone and the ability to sync to computers directly. They have a history of crippling their phones because of THEIR hubris and greed. I don't doubt Apple asks for things that rock the carriers back on their heels, but then again the carriers don't seem to understand or care about the desires of their own customers. Apple coming in and telling them that this is the feature set and it won't be compromised more likely made many carriers take their ball and go home.
As for the cut Apple is getting from AT&T, it is a new way of doing business, but I think we'll shortly see that Apple was justified in wanting a cut of the business they'll be sending AT&T's way. There is going to be a HUGE adoption of this phone.
As for the network speed, we'll have to wait and see. From what I've heard the 3G networks are not that much better in reality, only in the specs.
If my CEO gets one and hooks it into our mail systems, and then it gets stolen (Remember when iPods were new and they were getting stolen all the time?), how am I going to remotely wipe all of the data from it?
Same way you remotely wipe all the data from a Treo. Or even a Blackberry.
You don't, unless they're stupid enough to hook it up to the network before they pull the data out.
You enforce remote security with an encrypted database that you don't keep the key to in the handheld, or simply not keeping data in the handheld. Anything else is no better than "you must be this tall to storm the castle".
I'm sure carriers don't want to give Apple a dime. Hey, they're carriers, they're greed MF'ers! But despite that obvious reason I think carriers like Verizon didn't want users to be able to sync their photos/music/contacts/etc. through their computer. They want EVERYTHING sent over the network so they can charge for it. THAT is the reason mobile phones are not progressing, carrier greed.
I'll admit I thought it was a bit arrogant that Apple wants a cut from every iPhone user. I'm a bit torn on this. In a way it reminds me of the RIAA wanting a cut of iPod sales. But, the comparison falls apart after that because the iPhone will drive TONS of customers to AT&T, but RIAA music does not perform a similar function for the iPod.
My plan is $39.99, gives me 400 minutes, and I don't use them all because I either use Gtalk or Skype to communicate in other ways
Oh yeah? My plan currently is month to month, where I pay $15 every THREE months, giving me some number of minutes I don't use because I don't chatter with everyone needlessly on my cell. I believe I have $90 of credit stored up to talk with.
If you don't have a data plan, then your device is only useful in limited WiFi areas - I hardly consider the tradeoff between having network connectivity virtually everywhere (even if a little slower) and only having WiFi but the use of Skype, to be any kind of draw.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Macs are not cheap, unless you add usability and quality of manufacture to your equation. I don't use them, but I see an awful lot of people using them who did not pay for them themselves.
On Windows Mobile phones, running WM 5.0 AKU 2 or greater, one can set policy on the phone to have it auto-hard reset (wiping all data on the internal memory) if someone attempts too many passwords.
I have a third party utility that is part of a custom cooked flash load which, if the SIM card is replaced, will automatically zero out the cellphone and inserted memory card. I'm 99.99% sure that a thief who obtains a cellphone isn't likely to flash it (forcing a hard reset anyway) before inserting in a new SIM card.
But in any case, you are 100% right about database security. If the data needs to be secure, it should either not be physically residing on an electronic device that can be taken anywhere. If the info has to be residing on the portable device, the device (and its memory card) should be protected with a whole disk encryption program, whose password is different from the one to unlock the device, and the SIM card's PIN.
And I'll be laughing at the people who buy one.
+++ATH0
Hint: modify your suauth and sudoers files.
As for 'getting corporate', it is well-known that engineering departments don't "get corporate" (example, having a 'standard image' is not going to include all of the scientific, math, and laboratory software), but somehow companies manage to find ways to handle that.
I hate the idea of not being able to install my own apps. What about well-behaved apps that don't need admin rights? It sounds like you don't want people installing those, either, but maybe I'm misreading you.
I have to argue that, in a well-designed computing environment, as long as you don't touch the hardware directly and aren't trying to modify the core parts of the operating system, no application should need admin rights to install (unless you're installing 'for every user'). If I want to install my own text editor rather than using whatever is in the default image, I ought to have the ability to do so. If you're worried about user apps having unlimited access to the CPU or network, you should choose/configure your OS (and your network setup) wisely.
More to the point, when Jobs returned to Apple, it was hemorrhaging cash and X days away from bankruptcy.
Apple also was selling a ton of products, some profitable, most not. Jobs' first order of business was to eliminate the vast majority of these products and focus the company on its core competency. Spite had nothing to do with the killing of the Newton. Saving Apple did, and I think we can all agree Jobs succeeded rather well.
Personally I was very upset over the elimination of the LaserWriter, but I realize now it was a very smart move.
If that screeching rant had been posted anonymously it would be plonked to -1 in a nanosecond.
You can argue whether it's flamebait or a troll, but ranting about "fanboys" is never "interesting".
On Windows Mobile phones, running WM 5.0 AKU 2 or greater, one can set policy on the phone to have it auto-hard reset (wiping all data on the internal memory) if someone attempts too many passwords.
:)
That kind of trapdoor, and your custom flash, are useful tools. They're not the same as a remote reset, though.
The silver lining to the iPhone application lockdown cloud for you, though, is that by making your applications web-based Apple's ensuring that the information those apps serve doesn't, in fact, reside on the iPhone. All an attacker could get would be the user's personal address book and calendar... your business data would be safe since it wouldn't be stored on the phone.
For me that's poor compensation at best, but for you it's actually an important feature.
Do you want my serials of all 3 macs and OS X 10.2.x, 10.3.x, 10.4.x receipts from Apple? Or do you want to see my 4-5 sites which are hosted on Xserve based solutions? Would you ask any shareware vendor which made useful product about me? Or any open source developer who codes stuff for OS X?
I am not against Apple or hating them. I am just a consumer who used real smart devices which you can install software and change every single thing based on your needs. I also respect the millions of 3rd party developers, freeware or commercial and their struggle to make something having ~100,300 Mhz CPU usable. Using "iPhone" and "Smart" in same paragraph is enough to make me mad.
I am a consumer, not some blinded cult member and I am in fact disgusted by the fact that I could be getting confused with some loudmouth lifeless cult member like idiots who DOES HARM Apple by not pushing them to their full potential. Watch news at 30th, see those classy wannabe idiots who line up for a device they will pay $600 plus 2 year contract with some hideous cell phone provider, wonder about the first hint to some Mac hint site which enables device function which was locked by Apple for their future policy, watch the first appearings of trojans claiming to enable flash on iPhone.
I am a Nokia 9300 owner and I use excellent OS X abilities with it such as VNC or SSH without having to get paranoid. It is a smart device which I could actually install SSH and VNC when I needed it. While it is a enterprise focused (S80) phone, it does have Flash and thanks to flash, I can navigate some sites such as my bank. No, the guy sitting on that IBM Z990 mainframe isn't impressed with my "how evil flash is" mumbles. I also added Realplayer just for fun and while connection is expensive, I actually used it to listen to BBC World service on middle of nowhere.
If someone comes and asks which smart device instead of laptop he/she should buy with their $600 spare, I will divert them to Symbian or even Windows CE based devices which Symbian would be a better choice since it also supports J2ME.
Does it get me fired from Cult? Thanks!
[...]
Does it get me fired from Cult? Thanks! I don't think anyone should be lining up to buy an iPhone, or a PS3, or anyting. Consumer whores, the lot of 'em.
And I haven't given nearly as much thought to the iPhone as you have, I don't buy first generation hardware, I'll let the whores bend over and take the undiscovered glitches, wait for a revision on the design, and consider buying it then. For now all we have to go on is rumors, hype and FUD, none of which interests me much.
And on an unrelated note, what's your first language? Just curious, you don't seem to feel the need for articles in your sentences... German? Something Nordic perhaps?
You can't take the sky from me...
I've gotten as much as 1.5 Mbits/S download using Verizon's CDPD network with my PDA. That's a personal best (it was near Dulles airport), the data rate can vary dramatically depending on where you are. But I'd say on average I get about 500Kbits/S where I go nationwide. That's at least 10X AT&T's EDGE data rate.
Doug Jensen
Correctly configured? That may work fine for a bunch of accountants, HR directors, marketing droids, and sales people, but if you have software development engineers you are only making things harder for you. These people live and produce by their tools, locking their tool box down with only a company-issued screwdriver and hammer inside will quickly lead to low productivity, unhappy engineers, and Dilbert cartoons posted outside cubicle walls.
You should also consider, as your post clearly implies, that perhaps corporate doesn't get Apple.
I'd agree that's not a very good point then... I was going to say the depth of reach into the operating system may not be as much as for Palm, but actually with the iPod detecor and all it's probably similar. It's just that the iTunes front end is so much more pleasant than Palm Desktop.
Thanlks for the info.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
iPhone is a revolutionary new mobile phone that allows you to make a call by simply pointing your finger at a name or number in your address book, a favorites list, or a call log http://www.iphone-converter.org/convert-iphone/
It's really a personal comparison between the way that the iPod sounds through Shure e4c's compared to the Zune, network Walkman (some, as others are really noisy), and an older discman. I know a few people who have switched to Zunes because of this, but I absolutely refuse to use that crappy software.
I have issues with being forced to use any software, but the Zune does an astounding job of confirming my distaste.
More to the point at hand, the iPod is a very good sounding player, but it's not the best. No, the cnet numbers are not apples-to-apples, but, even in the context of only that review, the distortion numbers for the HD iPod are fugly. Any of these players does more than a sufficient job ('cept for the iRiver and uwon units) with today's media, but "I will eat a box" jokes have to be met with a bit of ribbing.