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iPhone Doesn't Surf Fast Enough for Jobs
ElvaWSJ writes with a link to a Wall Street Journal interview with Steve Jobs and AT&T's CEO Randall Stephenson. As you can imagine, they're pretty enthusiastic. Just the same, they address the possibility that the iPhone will slow internet access on Ma Bell's cell network. "Mr. Jobs acknowledged that the company's new iPhone won't surf the Internet as fast as he would like on the network, called "Edge," but added that the device's ability to connect to Wi-Fi hotspots would give consumers a speedier alternative for Web browsing. For his part, Mr. Stephenson said the iPhone represents a broader push by AT&T into Wi-Fi services, including, potentially, mobile Internet calling. The two men also discussed the iPod's "halo effect" and reflected on the origins of their corporate partnership."
iPhone Don't Surf!
Probably not.
--> Fight tyranny and repression.... read
Is it time yet for the Iphone to be Myphone so shinyyy....
Since AT&T was supposedly the only provider who would agree to Apple's list of detailed demands, it's likely they had little choice but to accept their network. It's not like other providers were lining up for a chance at it.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Simply put: it ain't 3G. That's going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks for iPhone. It's one of the reasons why I won't be buying one, despite the fact that I drooled over the iPhone initially.
My blog
But 640kbps ought to be enough for anyone?
This game will waste your life. Don't clicky!
OK I made it half way through Job's first sentence, which was:
One of the things we feel is this is the biggest breakthrough in user interfaces in 23 years. Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons
hmmm...
ccalam - acoustic versions of new songs.
"Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons, there really hasn't been much except for the evolution of that in the last 23 years."
Nice to see Apple continuing the fine corporate tradition ov copying other people's innovations and claiming them as their own.
Dungeon Tactics : Free Open Source SRPG
I was afraid we wouldn't see a single iPhone advertisement...I mean article today...my fears have been relived...
It's not even out, and it's already obsolete.
They already have a 3g one in the works.
600 now, and 600 when the new one is out.
LAME
This reminds me of a European country that has "chic", coolness, etc. But then when it comes right down to it, namely "where's the Beef", well then ooopss...
Seriously, if the iPhone is ONLY really good on WiFi networks, why the iPhone? If you look at WiFi only, then well sorry folks the Origami or UMPC blows the iPhone out of the water. If we are comparing WiFi then the Origami can do everything and then some, and it is quite portable.
And wanna know something else, get the Samsung phone with the MP3 player and 3G and I have an iPhone killer.... Sorry, but this is a joke...
"You can't make a race horse of a pig"
"No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
When Jobs states that iPhone will change the way we communicate I think it it this halo effect he is talking about. When iPhone becomes as ubiquitous as the iPod it will cause more people to look at internet access being just as important a component as voice when it comes to cellular service. With these rising expectations will come proper data support from carriers, fast enough to make suring from iPhone the same experience as surfing from any other Mac a person might have at home.
So called 'smart' phones have traditionally been the domain of corporate customers. Now that a really smart phone has arrived, in style, people who would not otherwise have bothered with them for personal use will flock to the stores. Since they will no longer have to put up with a clunky form factor and an absurd interface iPhone can be the true communication tool they have been seeking for some time. And with the increased demand you'll see carriers step up to compete with a broader spectrum of features.
Just like the Jobs led Apple has redefined the music industry, they'll redefine the cellular market. I think it was wise for AT&T to jump on this lucrative strategic alliance because it will give them a leg up on the competition when it comes to servicing an entirely new segment of the market: quality driven smart phone consumers.
If I were running an AT&T competitor right now I would be wondering why Jobs didn't approach me with this opportunity and what I could do to earn his approval. I wouldn't want to be left behind.
AT&T has an HSDPA (3G) network, but there are two issues with it. (1) It's not widely deployed (a few dozen cities, compared to EDGE, which is everywhere that AT&T offers cell service). (2) Although the network is quite fast, the chipsets that support it presently consume too much power. Apple apparently wants a lower power chipset so that battery life of the iPhone isn't adversely affected.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Those had been shelved by Xerox and it was the deal Apple made with Xerox that allowed them to create a product. They DID bring it to 'US'. 'US' being the consumer.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Or has Jobs put his finger on the real difference between Apple and Microsoft?
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
This is a revolutionary user interface [on the iPhone] -- multi-touch, direct action. It's pretty remarkable. I'm very excited.
He is exited about something PDA's have done for years. Many laptops, too, have had touchscreen capabilities for a while now. And with the exception of the touchscreen, the iPhone is one of many cell phones that can play music and view the web.
Revolutionary? Only in the sense that Apple could make it mainstream like they did with the iPod. But, like the iPod, this is nothing new.
I'm amazed AT&T or any cell company would allow a cell to enter their market that has built in wifi. Won't this cut into their profits? Since anyone can go to McD's and check their email instead of having to pay their provider for the online minutes.
Simply put: it ain't 3G. For people who know WTF that is, it is going to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks for iPhone.
Most people will get it for it's look.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why did not apple buck the whole system and offere the iPhone as a unlocked device only.
that way you could get your choice of service, your phone is not held hostage by unscrupulous Service providers, and it would have forced a change in the way cellular companies abuse their customers.
a win,win,win situation.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
What is up with Jobs selling nonexistent features?
Ringtone business gets a tease:
Mr. Jobs: One might imagine a lot of things down the road.
Mr. Jobs: There's a lot of things you can imagine down the road.
But you can forget 3G in revision one:
Mr. Jobs: No, we just don't comment on future stuff.
I also got a kick out of this:
Mr. Jobs: There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network.
Theft of service, it's the Apple way!
With all the hype over people getting sued and arrested for using someones open AP, I wonder if the iPhone autoconnects without user intervention or if it requires some manual selection. If auto this could cause legal problems as the user would be according to recent suits "stealing bandwith and computer fraud by illegally accessing an another persons network" I dont agree with it, but that appears to be the direction we're going.
Does the iphone browser incorporate a server side compression system (a la Opera Mobile)? - that would seem to be a good solution for speeding up a slow data link to a device that has limited display capabilities anyway.
How about some plugins to block graphical advertisements or other unwanted content on popular sites (a la greasemonkey) ?
There are so many options to optimize web browsing for such devices - this slowness web surfing MUST have come up in beta testing - what solutions are included?
Some of it's voice mail features required the carrier to change it's network. If you just put it on the market as an open device, no carrir is going to botherto spend the millions to change their network.
Of course, if the iPhone does become the next iPod, then other carriers will start to make changes to support those features. Then APple will open it to other carriers.
This is very Jobs. Get his foot in the door, then eventually be the hippest cat in the whole room.
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Jobs: There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network.
Wow. Don't use your iPhone in Singapore.
Mr. Jobs: We can report to you that it hasn't so far. I think they should actually wait until it is released before they can tell if it's going to or not.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Seems that there are credible reports coming in that in the last 24 hours AT+T have increased EDGE speeds to >200 k bits/s. This should be good news to all AT+T EDGE users:
r s-seeing-sudden-boost-in-edge-speeds/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/atandt-custome
As we know, increased means they probably removed some artificial cap....
I wonder how many days will go by until the drop the speed again? I guess there will be a halo effect of new iPhone buyers showing their friends - "hey look at this I can browse the web" - just for the sake of it....
3G isn't that critical for intermittent mobile use.
Flame me all you want, but I think Apple blew it by going with Cingular/AT&T for the iPhone.
Apple should have gone with Verizon Wireless, which would have given the iPhone the ability to access EVDO wireless networking that has data transfer rates in the 350 to 800 kilobits per second range. In that case, the iPhone would have actually been a truly useful device to access the Internet and corporate email systems.
I think they should actually wait until it is released before they can tell if it's going to or not. :-D
The sound that you just heard was the delicious humour of Steve's reply zipping at light speed (actually a bit less than light speed since Steve's RDF is known to actually slow light) over your head.
nice how the rest of his response was cut out... "Mr. Jobs: You know every (AT&T) Blackberry gets its mail over EDGE. It turns out EDGE is great for mail, and it works well for maps and a whole bunch of other stuff. Where you wish you had faster speed is...on a Web browser. It's good enough, but you wish it was a little faster. That's where sandwiching EDGE with Wi-Fi really makes sense because Wi-Fi is much faster than any 3G network. What we've done with the iPhone is we've made it so that it will automatically switch to a known Wi-Fi network whenever it finds it. So you don't have to go hunting around, resetting the phone, flipping a switch or doing anything. Most of us have Wi-Fi networks around us most of the time at home and at work. There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network. What we found is the combination is working really well. When we looked at 3G, the chipsets are not quite mature, in the sense that they're not low-enough power for what we were looking for. They were not integrated enough, so they took up too much physical space. We cared a lot about battery life and we cared a lot about physical size. Down the road, I'm sure some of those tradeoffs will become more favorable towards 3G but as of now we think we made a pretty good doggone decision. "
There's often times a Wi-Fi network that you can join whether you're sitting in a coffee shop or even walking along the street piggybacking on somebody's home Wi-Fi network. What we found is the combination is working really well.
Someone needs to tell Zonk that removing one vowel won't reload Slashdot on his iPhone any faster.
How long do you suppose before someone is able to crack the iphone to use a wifi connection for internet calling?
Quiz: True or False -- On a scale of 1 to 10, what is your middle name?
It will surf teh interweb, answer email, make calls, play MP3's, wash your car, clean your house, spank you off. FINELINE PRINT: Product may not work as advertised. In order to benefit from our huge technologically advanced vertically intergrated technologically advanced technology, users must first purchase an advanced proactive neurally intergrated vertically horizontal network card from our vertically implemented horizontally vectored service provider.
Infiltrated dot Net
Hey, why don't you complain about the fact that the ipod doesn't have a replaceable battery. Wait, I know, why don't you start a, sure to be enlightening, thread on why Apple's refusal to support Mac clones is bad for the consumer.
Not because the phone is faster, but because you won't be out of your subsidy period when the new one arrives. There's got to be a 3. Profit in here somewhere!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
While I don't have any experience with the newer 3G wireless internet services and other such things, using my CDMA phone with 1X internet is painfully slow, even for playing the online "who wants to be a millionaire" game, or even load up the google mobile search page. Not only that the batter gets drained pretty fast if you're doing any kind of prolonged surfing. I imagine that anything faster would just draw more battery power. I'm not sure whether mobile internet will ever be a good thing. Even if you had 802.11x, most laptops have severely reduced battery life if you're using the WiFi chip.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
More bullshit from AT&T:
e ct-lightspeed-and-the-jedi-mind-trick/
Mr. Stephenson: If you think about wireless broadband networks, EDGE is the only ubiquitous nationwide broadband network deployed today. It's a 300-plus kilobit type service. We're selling in the tens of thousands every single month of smart phones that operate on nothing but EDGE. The service experience is really, really good and what you're going to see with the iPhone is the caching technology that Steve and the Apple guys have developed here makes the EDGE experience even better. Between the Wi-Fi and the EDGE coverage, this is a really good experience.
High latency, low bandwidth broadband. Huzzah!
Sprint's EVDO network is deployed as widely as AT&T's EDGE network (not even all of AT&T's GSM network is EDGE). Worse, Sprint's EVDO revA network is deployed in most metropolitan areas, nearly all interstate highways, and nearly all tourist areas.
For AT&T, Edge is "all the speed you need", up until they deploy HSDPA, in which case that will be, "all the speed you need". Just like this: http://www.nyquistcapital.com/2006/03/30/att-proj
Mr.Stephenson said that AT&T's field tests have shown 'no discernable difference' between AT&T's 1.5 Mbps service and Comcast's 6 Mbps because the problem is not in the last mile but in the backbone.
Ridiculous
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
There are rumours of a major speed boost (up to 200 kbps) in the EDGE network today.r s-seeing-sudden-boost-in-edge-speeds/
http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/28/atandt-custome
No idea if this is true, but there are similar rumours coming from elsewhere as well.
EVDO is 3G, and it's available across the US. And my EVDO phone's battery lasts a lot longer than 45 minutes.
The US is 3G ready - it's Cingular/AT&T and T-Mobile who aren't.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
The Atari ST is from 1985. Apple was shipping the Lisa in 1983 and the Mac in 1984.
Both are based on work by PARC, that's true.
My initial reaction was that, come the European launch, if the iPhone doesn't have 3G/UMTS/HSPDA then it would be laughed out of court. However, on reflection, it sounds as if Apple's attitude is:
GPRS is good enough to check your EMAIL and gives good phone coverage. If you want a decent web-surfing experience on the train, subway or in a coffee shop, your best bet is if some bright spark has installed WiFi. So lets do a phone which makes a much better job of doing WiFi than the competition and not weigh it down and waste battery life by putting in 3G capability. We're Apple - maybe we're influential enough to put some momentum behind WiFi coverage.
(PS - am I right in thinking that EDGE/GPRS and 3G/UTMD/HSPDA are two incompatible "family trees" of protocols, and a phone that supports both needs a certain amount of duplicate "gubbins" inside?)
I have a (UK) phone that does GRPS*, UMTD & HSPDA*, bluetooth and WiFi and while 3G coverage here is ok (and HSPDA being rolled out - and very nice when you can get it) it wouldn't be much good without GRPS as a fallback. You certainly can't use the internet reliably on a train (I've tried - and did manage to send an EMAIL from a train here but it was a labour of love and certainly wasn't HSPDA!) The phone (MDA Vario II - AKA HTC TyTan) is a bit of a brick and it certainly doesn't flip seamlessly between WiFi hotspots (cough)WM5(cough).
PS - real Apple Fanbois should, of course, equip themselves with a backpack containing a laptop with a HSPDA data card and a compact WAP. Then they can whip out their iPhone and impress people anywhere with HSPDA coverage... (* OK - PCMCIA, as they say, so I'm trying out multiple permutations for the ETLAs and DETLAs here:-)
In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
Around Christmastime last year
Mary Cheney: Dad, you look so sad, it's Christmas! You should be happy! What's wrong??
Dick Cheney: Well Mary, I'm having a hard time holding things together. My boss is a halfwit, nobody understands me, the press is relentless, and things might come unravelled if people start asking for emails. On top of that Michael Moore is coming out with a film that could hurt all of our big pharma stocks. I don't know what to do. *sigh*
Mary Cheney: I have lots of connections in SanFrancisco. Lemme see what I can do.
Right after New Years
Steve Jobs(phone):Hello Mary. Nice to hear from you. It's been a while - the artist's benefit for street muscicians I believe?? Anyway, what can I do you for?
Mary Cheney(phone): Well my dad is having a hard time of it. I know that you don't see eye to eye with him on politics. But I need help. I need get all the rabid press off my dad's back. The only ones who give half a shit is Fox News. He has a bad heart, you know. Plus Michael Moore is coming out with this horrible film that's a pack of lies.
Steve(phone): You're right Mary. I am not on the same page as your father. But I do have a lot of pharma stock myself. When is Moore's film due out? June 29? I have been tossing around an ipod plus phone product for a while. I'm calling it the "iphone." I will announce it next week. It will be huge. So huge that it will eclipse the sun! People will be selling the empty box on ebay for hundreds! No one will see any bad news reporting on your dad because the news will either be about the iphone or people will be in line to get the iphone. And they will be either too tired to go to that stupid Michael Moore movie or they will be too busy playing with the phone to even bother with life let alone go to the movie. And those that don't have the iphone will be trying to buy empty boxes on ebay! Nothing to worry Mary. It'll be like a national holiday away from all the problems!!
Mary(phone): Brilliant! Thank you Steve! You're wonderful! I love you! But like a friend kind of love...
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
EVD0 owns all...my Sanyo M1 owns the iPhone. sure, it doesn't have the nice big touch screen, but it can do everything the iPhone can and faster thanks to EVd0. the only thing the iPhone has on mine is the whole iMovie thing, but seriously, who wants to watch a movie on a phone? Sprint and Verizon will have their answers to iPhone soon and i wouldn't be surprised if they were made by microsoft and/or sony.
(in iPhone-user-friendly plain-text.)
iPhone 'Surfing' On AT&T Network Isn't Fast, Jobs Concedes By NICK WINGFIELD and AMOL SHARMA June 29, 2007; Page B4 [nowides]
In an interview on the eve of the iPhone launch, Apple Inc. CEO Steve Jobs and AT&T Inc. CEO and Chairman Randall Stephenson addressed concerns that the device will have slow Internet access on AT&T's cellular network.
Mr. Jobs acknowledged that the company's new iPhone won't surf the Internet as fast as he would like on the network, called "Edge," but added that the device's ability to connect to Wi-Fi hotspots would give consumers a speedier alternative for Web browsing. For his part, Mr. Stephenson said the iPhone represents a broader push by AT&T into Wi-Fi services, including, potentially, mobile Internet calling. The two men also discussed the iPod's "halo effect" and reflected on the origins of their corporate partnership.
The iPhone's first real chance to prove itself will begin Friday at 6 p.m., when the public is finally able to get its hands on the product. If it's successful, the product -- a cellphone combined with entertainment and Internet functions, all of them controlled by finger taps on a touch-sensitive screen -- could force changes across the wireless industry, forcing cellphone makers to respond with new twists in their own hardware. Already, eager fans are lining up at AT&T and Apple stores around the country to buy the device
Excerpts from the interview follow:
* * *
WSJ: Steve, on the eve of the iPhone launch, we wonder if you might compare it to others you've been involved in -- the introduction of the Macintosh, for instance -- both in terms of the consumer anticipation and your own feelings about the impact the product will have in the market?
[Steve Jobs]
Steve Jobs: One of the things we feel is this is the biggest breakthrough in user interfaces in 23 years. Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons, there really hasn't been much except for the evolution of that in the last 23 years. This is a revolutionary user interface [on the iPhone] -- multi-touch, direct action. It's pretty remarkable. I'm very excited.
I remember the week before we introduced the Mac. We knew every computer would work this way once we had the Mac. You couldn't talk about 'If,' you could debate about 'When.' That's how I feel about this. I feel this is the direction mobile devices are going to have to go. I don't think it's a matter of if, it's a matter of when. The first and most breakthrough one of them is going to be on the market tomorrow.
WSJ: One of the interesting things for people about the iPhone is the bundling of data and voice into one service plan. We've talked to some other smartphone manufacturers in the last couple days who say that would be great if that were extended to other devices because it seems like it would ensure that out-of-the-box people aren't getting an experience where they're pressing a button and something doesn't work. Is that something that you are looking at extending to other phones in the AT&T lineup over time?
Randall Stephenson: It depends on the handset itself. With this particular device, to not have an inclusive data package with a voice package would be almost irrelevant, right? This is a data and a voice product. It's nonsensical to sell a rate plan separate. As you see devices migrate towards this type of device, I fully expect you'll see rate plans migrate towards that as well.
WSJ: What do you both envision being added over time to the iPhone, in terms of access to ringtones through Cingular's (now rebranded AT&T) platform and maybe through some other manner, like turning your iTunes songs into ringtones?
Mr. Jobs: As you may know, iTunes is now the number three distributor of music in the U.S., ahead of Amazon and Target and behind Best Buy and Wal-Mart, and obviously the largest online distributor of
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
That's exactly the reason why it's not good for most of the country, far more people would take the battery life over the performance in a few regions, and all of us can find WiFi here and there.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Phones with 3G degrade to EDGE when they don't have 3G. I know, for example, Colorado does not have 3G at all and yet there are a bunch of marks on that map, which simply measures network speed at points.
The country is EDGE ready, not 3G. Sorry.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
In clear line-of-site, I've not seen it push more than ~500Kbps and their website pretty clearly states expected performance is 300-700kbps--basically, speeds that EDGE was already supposed to support. I spent half an afternoon flipping settings around to make sure it
Bummer, I won't be able to use the IPhone to find a job then ! ;-(
In Korea, iPhone surfs fast enough only for old people.
Thank goodness the "insightful" Steve Jobs has let us know about this problem. I'm sure that other people will realize that the iPhone doesn't surf the web fast enough only now that steve has let us know that he doesn't think it's fast enough. All hail Lord Steve Jobs!
I find it hilarious the news stations are calling this "the Jesus phone". I, for one, am going to wait for the second coming.
-50 DKP for lame post!
When we're talking about "the future" let's talk about faster wide area wireless networks, and not wifi capabilities.
I don't understand the draw of wifi on mobile phones. I'd rather have one high-speed single connection that is as broadly dispersed as EVDO currently is. For mobile use, when I had a PPC 6700, the evdo was nearly as fast as wifi and switching back and forth was a hassle.
JP
I had a Dell Axim x51v with a fat wireless network pipe and the thing is still kinda slow... The hardware is nice or seems really nice. I would like to know if the slowness on windows mobile devices is because of the OS (winsock) or the driver or or the dinky little wireless circuit? Would the Linux based n800 browse faster? Does the iphone browse faster given the same sized pipe? Hmmmmmm?
If you want faster surfing on EDGE or GPRS, get Opera Mini. It slims down the HTML and graphics substantially before it gets to your phone. It breathed new life into my Sony Ericsson P910 (GPRS only), making it faster in use than Pocket Explorer my wife's EDGE phone with the AT&T network. The inability to use alternatives like Opera Mini is part of why I'm not as excited about the iPhone as I thought it would be.
We're getting a 3G-enabled version of the phone.
It loads on the phone, so it must be compressing/fiddling with the page after it has downloaded.
How can that give you a faster download?
It might render what it downloads faster, but that is not the network, it's the phone.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Why are we still screwing around with slow technology? Oh that's right, GREED. Well, while the telco's lobby for profit, America's intelligence, defense, and fourth (or should that be fifth now) estate are suffering, it will probably take another 911 event to wake up. But then it will be too late!
If you go through the apple demo of how to activate your iPhone, it says the time will vary "depending on your provider".
On the face of it, that seems absurd, since there is only one provider.
Are they leaving room for international providers with that commentary, or are tehy referring to all the little sub-providers that AT&T has swallowed over the years. If this, they why can't they integrate HSPDA along with EDGE, and just get the benefit of the higher speed when you're in an HSPDA area?
The problem is that the WiFi part of the phone isn't unlocked until you've bought the AT&T unlimited data plan. While this is clear fraud on the purchaser, who might only be planning to use wireless access through WiFi points, AT&T gets their money regardless of how you use the iPhone. In fact, they'll want you to use WiFi as much as possible, to keep traffic down on their own networks.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
ATT Wireless (before being bought by cingular) was rolling out UMTS nationwide. But cingular took over and changed its schedule, putting 4+ years delay in its launch.
Oh, and switched vendors, vendors with former ATTWS employees. I believe investors got soaked for millions. Lets not even go into the merge of the networks, what a fiasco that was.
How is it legal for a service provider to lock you out of feature for a product you buy that is not their product? Again that's like buy a computer then looking for an ISP, then the ISP tells you you're not allowed to play games on your computer or use piece of software on it. Service providers have no right to tell you what you can't due on your own hardware, a phone is essentially a piece of hardware. You are not leasing or renting a product from them. You are buying a piece of hardware from another vendor and using them as a service provider. If anyone had that right it would be the manufacturer of the product you're buying.
That's outdated. Balmers said 20 years ago, it was "Windows, windows, windows" and 5 years ago, it was "Developers, developers, developers". Now he said ".. but not anymore baby, it's advertisers, advertisers, advertisers." He even came out with a spastic gesture to accompany it.
Guys, you're all missing the point. The iPhone would have had 3g, but Qualcomm got their 3g chips tied up in court, so what was probably a drop in upgrade for the iPhone, never materialized in time for production. So you have a last generation set of Qualcomm chips in there. Thank the US justice system and the jacked up patent office for your slow arsed iPhone.
Since the Mac in 1984 brought us the mouse and bit map displays and folders and icons, there really hasn't been much except for the evolution of that in the last 23 years.
That would be either "The Xerox Star Office System" in "1981" or at least "Lisa" in "1982", Steve.
Hmm, orly? Can you point to a URL that verifies this?
"BASICALLY," as in "not a great deal superior to."
Christ.
Is there anyone out there besides me who couldn't care less about this thing? I guess I'm really barking up the wrong tree by asking this on Slashdot--maybe the library would be a better place--but I mean, jesus h christ people, it's just a phone. You call people with it. It sends e-mails, so you don't have to wait until you're at home or the office. Woop-de-doo. Oh, and you can read the NY Times on a slow, cramped web browser. I just totally don't see the point of it all, other than to close off the last few remaining channels of your life where you might have had some uninterrupted personal time to be alone with your thoughts.
I think there is a world market for maybe five personal web logs.
We obviously thought about VoIP. You still need a cellular phone because you're not always going to be in a Wi-Fi hotspot. One you have a cellular phone plan, it costs you zero incremental dollars to use it when you're making the next phone call. VoIP, while an interesting technology, didn't seem to be a big breakthrough to us. But others might feel differently, and others may make Web-based VoIP clients available for the iPhone - I think someone's already working on that.
Not on AT&T's network... they explicitly prohibit VoIP.
I'm also a little disturbed by the implication that web applets would have access to the microphone. That sounds like a great opportunity for privacy invasion.
The WSJ guy seems pretty confused about the iPhone in the following paragraphs. Applets on the iPhone have nothing to do with apps on OSX. Of course that confusion is exactly why Apple's been promoting the idea that this kind of thing is an "iPhone API" for writing iPhone applications, rather than a web API for writing web applications that are styled to resemble the iPhone.
I've noticed that *some* people writing these apps are deliberately checking if they're running on an iPhone or not, and refusing to run if you view them in another browser, but the ones that don't work fine for me in Camino. This is the counterpart to the old problem of websites that checked for IE or specific versions of other browsers, and it's just as daft an idea now as it was then.
and you'll need to surf for jobs to pay for it...
Seriously. I even like a number of Apple's products, surprisingly not the iPod either, but honestly this thing is going to go nowhere outside of the 20-somethings who just need to be trendy. The network isn't all that hot, the phone is fairly low on storage for a "Jesus Phone," and it is lacking a lot of important things.
I'm so tired of the frothy masses herded like sheep into believing this is some life altering product. I guess I got the un-tainted Kool-Aid, but we'll see in a few weeks/months what the response is...
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techinvestor/corporat enews/2007-06-28-jobs-stephenson-qa_N.htm is another interview with the two of them, which includes this gem:
Um... Randall? If you're using the term 'game changer' a lot, that probably means you don't know what a game-changer is. If they were all over, they would just be the game.
- The Amazina Llama
The iPhone can't even play mp3s without a contract.
I really don't know what you people are talking about with 3G not "being ready in the US" or "only working in a dozen cities." I live in a town in Connecticut and have perfect 3G reception on my Blackjack. My 3G has come through in Beverly, Mass as well as Hillsdale, NJ, and most of the Connecticut towns/cities I visit.
um... iPhone isnt all that the hype makes you think it is, i mean its flashy and nice but...
- Sprint/dp/B000FOFRSG/ref=tag_tdp_dp/103-3300026-69 83805
well look for yourself here is my phone that ive had for way over a year now
http://www.amazon.com/PCS-Phone-Audiovox-PPC-6700
it plays mp3's has wifi plays media files is evdo compatible (same as that edge shit i assume?) sliding face im more than happy with my phone and it didnt cost nearly as much as the iPhone and has been around for almost 2yrs and this is the second model of this type of smart phone... i guess hype and flash make up for innovation
Yes. Gizmodo reported that it's called Operation Fine Edge.
Looks like asshat AT&T only bothered to upgrade their network for the iPhone, not the rest of us.
Thanks Jobs for busting their balls.
300-700Kbps is what is disclosed for expected performance for HSDPA on AT&T's network. When EGPRS is spec'd at 236-473Kbps, you're talking a floor difference of 22% and a ceiling difference 33%. Yes, that is significant. However, the spec for the HSDPA deployment by AT&T is 1.8-3.6Mbps. When throughput is consistently 500Kbps, you're talking differences of 300-700%.
So, let's recap. We have three scenarios:
1. EGPRS SPEC average 354.5 Kbps
2. HSDPA actual: 500.0 Kbps
3. HSDPA SPEC average 2700.0 Kbps
Now, would you say that #2 is more appropriately considered a close performance to #1 or #3? You know, #1, which on average is only 30% slower, or #3 that is 540% faster?
Remember the iRocker cell phone from Motorola? Jobs ate up Motorola's engineering efforts with that, leaving M with nothing.
Same thing will happen with Cingular, people will see how crapatular EDGE is and start complaining. Apple will then come out with an unlocked UMTS phone.
Of course it's too slow. He probably has gigabit in his office, fastest available residential service to his home, dedicated 802.11g or 802.11n wifi access points for any mobile platform he uses, then he has to drop back to sharing an Edge link with rates of 200-300kbps... By comparison it would seem slow as hell. He's not known to be patient.
I don't envy anyone trying to use their iPhone under GPRS rates.
The thing is, a lot of the time people will not be because WiFi is in many places now. And WiFi is even faster than 3G.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
They're all camping out in front of the apple/cingular stores.
The posted was correcting the technologies involved, but it does nto change the fact that said technologies are still not widespread. I'd rather rely on WiFi for faster browsing but then have a far wider range of data access.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yes, this has enlightened me! I should so obviously spend the n*100$us I could spend in getting a new computer with double the power of my current box ON a PHONE! Yeess! Steve Jobs is a pioneer!
Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
that you don't 'subscribe' for service at the retail store where you would get an iPhone, but instead all you do is buy the hardware itself and then 'subscribe' or 'activate' it, via iTunes, and I've got a few questions.
1. Is the sale of the phone itself completely cash-and-carry? Eg, can you pay cash, not sign anything, and walk out with the device in-hand and no further obligation?
2. Can you use the 802.11 and browsing capability of it *without* signing your life away to AT&T?
3. Would it be possible to run a SIP client on it, which would function like any other SIP phone, using the 802.11 to access the SIP peer?
Bah humbug. Who the hell said that if you use a 3G capable phone you wouldn't be able to get good battery life. I would expect that if you were paying 600 dollars for a phone and getting raped on the service you'd think they'd at least spring for the ability to use 3G. For example take a look at the Sony Ericsson W850i. It has both UMTS capability and a talk time of 11.5 hours. I would call that excellent by anyone's standards.
Btw the iPhone will demand you increase your internet usage. Gigabytes? I dunno maybe. But the reason you get an iPhone is because of the capabilities of the machine. You wanna use Google maps, you need the internet. Want to use widgets... more internet. Youtube, email, safari... these are the things that you'd use if you want the iPhone to be anything more than a pretty phone. I really don't know anybody uses their phone but the only time I want to use my phone to do those other things(I have a macbook for wifi usage) is when I'm away from starbucks or home or anywhere else. So yes in the iPhones case 3G is a requirement if they are gonna charge you an arm and leg for it.
Hmm, slow internet access on a client for which you pay for internet access by the minute.
Oh, I'm real sure an honest, reputable company like AT&T wouldn't have done this on purpose.
Apparently not.
Yes, they're calling it the Jesus-phone. You're just figuring this out now?
Lies about crimes
Here you go:
The Xerox Star 8010
Sold in 1981. Features:
Menu-driven, icons, mouse, high-resolution graphics on a 17 inch monitor, built in and external storage devices, Ethernet
Expensive as all hell at $16,595 but impressive.
So yes you could in fact buy one but no it really wasn't a home computer.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
(1) It's not widely deployed (a few dozen cities
A few dozen, a couple hundred... but who's really counting. HSDPA coverage isn't *that* bad.
the chipsets that support it presently consume too much power. Apple apparently wants a lower power chipset so that battery life of the iPhone isn't adversely affected.
Reminds me of the old joke:
Nokia, when faced with the same dilemma, included a battery door.
;-)
The problem with html in general is that too many websites use 20 to 100 tiny images to do their tricky visual effects.
.MHT format. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHTML)
.html file is sent via .gz compressed mode (most sane servers support that, and browsers do too, they request a html.gz) would make those
If HTML had the power to render small objects it would cut out those 100 TCP connections with overhead of http headers and connects.
This could be solved if you could use ONE animated gif and say img src=image.gif#5 for the frame number.
Or if you could embed images into the html, such as when IE saves webpages as whole in
The fact that a whole
90kb html files more likely to be 12kb.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Profit by locking customers into specific services and products with NO choice.
When Apple does it, AWESOME! BRILLIANT!! GENIUS!!! STEVE JOBS IS GOD!!!
When Microsoft does it, HORROR!!! EVIL!!!! SATAN!!!! BILL GATES MUST DIE!!!
According to Cingular/ATT, they were rolling out their 3G service last year and expected it to be available in all service areas. I am somewhat surprised that at this time, the 3G just plain isn't there. When I was considering a 3G card for my notebook, cingular was very clear about how the serevice would be available soon to upgrade the EDGE service. I am glad I didn't buy it on the basis of the promise.
Steve Jobs didn't say it isn't fast enough, as the title infers. I believe there is a huge difference between "not fast enough" and "it is good enough". God, stop with the iHate already lazy journalists.
Then why are Blckberry plans $20 more for data than the iPhone?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Eliminate Cell service: iSkype.
Your WiFi can act as carrier for both data and voice, the Cell service is actually redundant,
and any future iPod with WiFi should also include the connector for the headphones / microphone - iSkype on your WiFi iPod.
First off, cell internet is THE NEXT BIG THING. G3 may not currently be faster than Wifi, but it's getting faster delivering that speed at a more progressive rate than wifi. Why ? Because wifi is too open and hard to support and hard to make money off of compared to using the pre-existing and much more necessary g3 network.
As most people still don't know today G3 is available ALL over the place. Verizon is covering much of the large metro areas first while Sprint is working to bring it to areas that don't have broadband internet. In many areas now G3 is actually the fastest internet connection because of the massive amount of people in rural areas which have been entirely bypassed by broadband. Even the wealthiest states in the country have dead spots all over them.
In the end cellular is probably going to win actually. It has MUCH more money behind it and the distribution model is much smarter. PLUS whatever industry wins has to be the most profitable one. Distributing an internet over wifi would be MUCH more expensive, much harder to update, much less secure, and ultimately it might lead users to realize they could bypass ISP's and form their own WIFI internet.
Just look at the specs. The power and size of the cell phone is producing an amazing amount of nearly fully roaming broadband. How fast does the average person actually need to surf and I PLUS why support two networks. Dumping the wifi idealism into cell networks and we would have ONE high bandwidth EVERYWHERE connection instead of two standards. WIFI is easily much less reliable than cell networks as far as moving around while connected. Wifi is easily to interfere with usually, many SOHO wifi routers are not reliable and will simply lose settings or reboot or whatever they feel like going. Cell technology on the hand is meant for daily use and as most cell phone users know they are very tough devices.