Give iPod Thieves an Unchargeable Brick

Svippy writes "Apple has patented a technology for new generations of iPods that would detect when a user tries to operate the iPod on an unauthorised machine ... and will refuse to charge. Indefinitely. From the article: 'Every portable gadget with a rechargeable battery has a charging circuit that recognises when the external mains charger has been plugged in. It then manages the transfer of current to the battery. Apple's patent suggests that by attaching a "guardian circuit" to the charging circuit, it would be possible to block the charging process. When a device is plugged into an unauthorised computer, software would compare a security code in the device to a code buried in the software in the computer. Apple already employs a similar technology to "pair" iPods to iTunes running on a specific Mac or PC. If the codes do not match, then the guardian circuit could be triggered to prevent any further charging.'"

Comments

False positives

[sleekware]

I can imagine this will raise a lot of false positives. It reminds me of Windows Genuine Advantage, only nastier...

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you need "authorization" just to charge your iPod on any box, I wonder.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you need "authorization" just to activate your new phone, I wonder.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

Your phone battery is low. You are not at home near your charger or your computer. You ask a friend if you can plug your phone in via USB to charge it. But, surprise, it is not "authorized" to charge on that box.

Re:False positives

[hey!]

Well sorta. But how well it works makes a big difference, doesn't it?

They've already got this in place to protect DRM'd music bought through the iTunes store, and as far as I can see it works perfectly well. You don't have to run around finding any little faux-stock-certificates, you don't have to call up an Apple representative and provide a justification for what you are doing. The Apple system is simple, permissive, and reasonably fool proof provided you have an email account that you can rely upon.

Re:False positives

[the_mad_postar]

Or worse: You bought your new iPod used at a Garage Sale, because the previous owner bought a new one with a larger storage capacity.

Re:False positives

[LiquidCoooled]

If they *did* think about implementing this on all pods then it would be unusable by me legally from my car or my homemade battery pack.

I could only imagine it working only if you try working directly with an iTunes aware computer.
If you connect it to an in-car charger there is no iTunes running from the car battery, so no comparison is possible at all.

Developed right it wouldn't be a big deal and really could work.

Re:False positives

[arth1]

This isn't about preventing stolen iPods from being able to charge. That's an incredibly fat lie.

This is about making sure that people who buy a second charger have to buy it from Apple, at inflated prices.

Re:False positives

[Hijacked Public]

You might want to update your conspiracy theory: Apple doesn't include the first charger either.

Re:False positives

[_Swank]

are you honestly trying to tell us that apple doesn't ship, with each ipod, the cable used to connect it to your computer (i.e. the charging cable)? of course they do, so stop saying they don't.

if you're complaining that they don't include the outlet adapter anymore, that's fine, but it's not really relevant either to the parent or to the main story.

Re:False positives

[BewireNomali]

is this.... HRM?

I'm sorry. I had to do it.

burn, baby, burn.

Re:False positives

[Hijacked Public]

are you honestly trying to tell us that the cable apple ships, with each ipod, the cable used to connect it to your computer is a charger cable)? of course it isn't, so stop saying they don't.

Calm down. I have like 5 iPods. And at least as many Macs. I don't hate Apple. It will be ok.

But they no longer ship the wall charger that they once did with iPods. That device did not even have its own cable, it used the same cable that connects the iPod to a computer. That is the device they no longer ship with iPods, the wall charger. The one that used the currently shipping cable to provide power to an iPod via the electrical wiring in a building.

That is the cable I mean.

And it is ok that Apple does that.

Fine with me.

We'll all be ok.

I was just pointing it out.

It's all ok.

Re:False positives

[fbartho]

They do ship it with the iPhone howevery :) it's a tiny little near-cube with a usb port on 1 side, and pop out mains prongs on the other.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

why the hell would you have 5 ipods?

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm like a hundred percent sure when they say "buried in the computer", they mean in the Registry under Apple/iTunes and we just change the guardian circuit id on our computer to match the number of the one on the ipod, which we can either find directly because they'll store it in a blatant file in the ipod itself, or we can record it when it attempts to tell the computer and echo it back to the ipod.

Sweet, I think I just hacked an unimplemented security concept!

Re:False positives

[Sandman1971]

If Apple goes thru with this, it guarantees that I will NOT buy an IPod when my current one dies (hello Zune?). I charge my IPod at work on my Sun desktop and in my car thru my car charger, neither of which runs ITunes. Even if by some miraculous reason Apple releases a Solaris version of ITunes, it will not get installed on my work desktop. This is the stupidest idea to come out of Apple in a long time.

Re:False positives

[jcuervo]

why the hell would you have 5 ipods? Beowulf minicluster?

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

because some apple fags actually do whatever stevie tells them to

Re:False positives

[Hijacked Public]

Lick my sack.

I have 5 iPods because they are the best way to store photographs when on a long assignment where stable electrical current is a forlorn hope. A couple of them are old, but an 80GB iPod offers the best combination of battery life, size, weight, and storage space there is.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have any. I think he should send me a couple, to even things out.

Re:False positives

[2.7182]

They did when I bought my 2nd generation 20 gig, but they didn't on my nano.

Re:False positives

[dhavleak]

Much much worse - what if I'm trying to use my ipod with a linux computer? This is like a DRM infection all over again..

Re:False positives

[Xanius]

Except that the main reason I would plug my MP3 player in to someone else's computer is to either play music on their sound system or to share music with them.

I'm thinking the sharing music with friends is the part that Apple would actually be deterring with this. If they made it a mandatory "feature".
I also use a Zen because having my MP3 player show up as a hard drive where I can just drag and drop files to and from it makes it a whole hell of a lot more useful and easier to back up.

I don't need a 3rd party program to let me put music on my mp3 player.

Re:False positives

[donaldm]

If this is designed to stop thieves then it is a poor way of doing it since it is going to inconvenience legitimate purchasers. Basically a thief will steal the ipod and sell it to some sucker in the pub rather than keep it. If you use the IMEI code in a mobile as an analogy it is actually possible to change the number (try using Google with "imei unlock" - you will get over a million hits) however the average thief does not have the facilities to do this so he will sell the mobile as soon as possible.

When I read the article I was struck how this this technique was not that novel or even innovative since this technique is really all about what to do when two supposed mating devices detect that their codes do not match (sort of like modern car keys) and for this they get a patent? Talk about obvious but then again it appears you can get a patent on just about anything in the US. Sorry I did not look at the actual patent, I don't really want a headache since all patents are written in legalese which is not really compatible to a professional engineers thought processes.

Re:False positives

[necro2607]

No shit eh? Apple doesn't include a USB port for your computer along with their iPod? Damn, those bloody fascists!

Re:False positives

[gnasher719]

What makes you think there would be false positives (actually, false negatives :-) ?

This would be very simple to manage. Every iPod comes with a built-in serial number. Derived from the serial number is a code that is printed on a paper in your box. Because it is derived from the serial number, Apple can tell you the code if necessary. The first time the iPod gets connected to a computer with iTunes, iTunes remembers the serial number. If the iPod gets connected to a different iTunes, it will know this is the second connection, iTunes will lock the charging with a delay of one week, and give you an opportunity to enter the code. If you enter the code, it gets unlocked and that copy of iTunes remembers the serial number of your iPod, so you can use it on that machine forever. If you don't know the code, you have to plug it into the original computer, and everything is fixed. External chargers work unless the iPod is locked.

So what happens if your iPod is stolen? The thief doesn't know the code. He/she can play your music forever if they have a charger. If they ever plug the iPod into a computer with iTunes, it will be locked a week later and cannot be charged anymore.

What happens if you plug it into a different computer? It gets locked, unless you enter the code. No problem, since you can use it for another week and plugging it into the original Mac fixes the problem. You'll probably enter the code into your second computer at home, your girlfriends computer, your computer at work. If you lose the code, go to the nearest Apple store with proof of purchase; the serial number and ID should be enough if you registered your iPod with Apple. If you sell the iPod, give the buyer your code. If you buy a used iPod, insist on the code and change the registration.

Re:False positives

[leenks]

You mean, next to an external 2.5" USB hard drive, which has a larger capacity and is smaller / lighter?

Re:False positives

[flosofl]

And you would power this... how?

Re:False positives

[SanityInAnarchy]

I'm curious -- how much does a second charger cost, and what guarantees that it's restricted to your iPod?

I just have this vision of some thief circumventing this in three seconds by simply not plugging it into a computer in the first place.

Re:False positives

[atrocious cowpat]

>> why the hell would you have 5 ipods?
> Beowulf minicluster?

Oh God, yes!

I've always wanted to hear Wagner played by at least five Orchestras simultaneously!

Probably would perform Der Ring des Nibelungen in less than 12 parsecs, too.

Re:False positives

[falconwolf]

I can imagine this will raise a lot of false positives. It reminds me of Windows Genuine Advantage, only nastier...

This is like a question I had. TFA says it works with software installed on a computer, but what if you use an external charger?

Falcon

Re:False positives

[Dephex Twin]

I like how you mention the Zune like that's going to make Apple jealous. "I can't believe you'd go out with that slut!"

Re:False positives

[Urza9814]

meh. depends how you got them, it may not be that ridiculous. I personally would never spend $300 on a music player...or even $200...or even $100. ($50 CD/MP3 FTW!) Yet I have 3. The first one was 'broken', I bought it for $15, and managed to repair it quite easily, as it was only a software problem. The second was a nano with a cracked screen, that I bought for $20 and paid $60 for a new screen. The third I was given for free and was also broken, sadmac icon and stuck buttons, but I just pulled the entire thing apart, put it back together, and it worked fine.

Re:False positives

[Achromatic1978]

That's hilarious. You can buy portable media systems with CF/SD readers and 120GB hard drives for less than half the price of an 80 gig iPod. I spot a flaw in your logic.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

apple can shove their i-Pods up their a-Sses before I'll buy one.

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

Or nano-cluster?

Re:False positives

[blacklint]

I doubt the iPod would have to tell the computer it's number, rather it would be the other way around. The iPod is the one that needs to know, and it has it's own processor. My theoretical implementation just broke your theoretical hack. Oh, and "store it in a blatant file"? I'm sure they could do better than that, seeing as your Fairplay keys are kept hidden quite well. Go ask the people who have been trying to figure out how they are encrypted and stored ever since iTunes 6 and the corresponding iPod firmware updates broke hymn. Apple really can get security right when they really want to.

Re:False positives

[Ziwcam]

Sorry to top-post, but I'd like to remind everyone in this thread: Don't Panic(TM)!

Apple has not implemented this system. Patenting it is not necessarily an indicator that they plan to implement it. Hell, they might sell the idea to Creative or MS to use in THEIR players.

Re:False positives

[TheMCP]

I would certainly be afraid of false positives: I often plug my personal ipod into my work mac to charge it. (It comes up and asks me if I want to make the ipod work with that computer instead of my home one. I say no. End of problem.) I'm also imagining lots of innocent situations going badly such as, parents buy ipod for college kid, parents plug in ipod to make sure it works, ipod locks itself to parents computer, parents send ipod to their kid, ipod bricks itself.

There are better options. For example, iTunes could prompt the iPod owner to provide a recording of their name and address and phone number, and a password. If the iPod is plugged into somebody else's computer, it could engage a lock mode in which the iPod would constantly play the owner's contact information whenever turned on, and to unlock it would require the owner to input the password. That way the device would not only not work for a thief, but it would also make clear who its owner is.

For that matter, it could play a video of the owner giving their contact information, and scroll the information across the bottom of the screen in text.

Re:False positives

[homer_ca]

Then the thief better hope he likes your music collection. How do you put new songs on it without plugging into a computer?

You're correct that this won't affect AC and car chargers. Only a computer can send the kill signal to the charging circuit.

Re:False positives

[howlingmadhowie]

the logical next step is not just to brick the ipod but also to brick the computer used to charge it. maybe an encrypted message could be sent to a private security firm on apple's or the RIAA's payroll.

Re:False positives

[pAnkRat]

Lorraine Baines: Our first television set. Dad just bought it today. Do you have a television set?
Marty McFly: Well, yeah! You know we have... two of them.
Milton Baines: Wow! You must be rich!
Stella Baines: Oh, honey, he's teasing you. Nobody has two television sets.
</quote>

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088763/quotes

Re:False positives

[leenks]

So you meant using your iPod with the apple photo connector, rather than taking a laptop with you then? There are devices that allow you to copy between two media devices, such as card and hard drive, but they are bigger than the iPod agreed.

The iPod photo connector I bought for my 60GB iPod "Color" is useless because it takes longer to copy 1GB of photos from a fast compact flash card than the iPod had available power. Maybe it got fixed and I should have taken mine back as not-fit-for-purpose or something.

Re:False positives

[Hijacked Public]

Maybe if you were better equipped to comprehend what you've read you would have noticed, long before arriving at the flaw spotting stage, that I did not mention cost as a consideration.

Re:False positives

[cyphercell]

I don't even understand why Apple would do this. As it is you can't use multiple computers running iTunes and realplayer (and other software) simply don't use the drm(); function. Currently if you plug your iPod into another computer for use with another instance of iTunes you get:
Are you sure you want to sync this iPod with this computer, you will lose your entire Music DB?
()Yes ()No
This patent would require a "are you sure you want to brick your ipod?" - pointless.

Re:False positives

[silverdr]

Might not. I am yet to get a false positive on any of the iPods and computers in use, after a number of years using those. If that's to be done in a similar way - it might be quite unobtrusive. In the end, while Apple is not always and not completely free of bugs and nastiness, hey I'd still rather refrain from drawing a parallel between Apple and Microsoft. IMHO - even if certainly not perfect - Apple is still far from being Microsoft-alike in many areas. Reliability and unobtrusiveness being some of those.

Re:False positives

[jasen666]

if you're complaining that they don't include the outlet adapter anymore, that's fine, but it's not really relevant either to the parent or to the main story.

It's relevant to THIS thread, which you are posting in.
He was responding to someone who thinks it's a ploy to force users to buy an outlet adapter. You just admitted they don't include the first one. The cable they provide is a USB cable. Not a power adapter. Useless if you don't happen to have a computer near you.
And, a simple outlet adapter would bypass this anti-charging safeguard.
So, yeah, it's relevant.

Re:False positives

[toddestan]

why the hell would you have 5 ipods?

Because 4 of them have flat batteries and refuse to charge?

Re:False positives

[toddestan]

You're correct that this won't affect AC and car chargers. Only a computer can send the kill signal to the charging circuit.

Depends on how they do it. If the battery charging circuit only charges when it's able to communicate with a computer that provides the correct ID, then all of those millions of devices that currently charge the iPod by providing +5V accross the right pins will cease to be useful.

Re:False positives

[homer_ca]

You could build it that way too (and maybe circumvent Apple's patent). However, as described in the blurb, the computer sends a kill signal to the charging circuit which then blows a fuse permanently. Since it's irreversible, Apple better be careful about false positives in the authentication process.

Re:False positives

[mgabrys_sf]

oh hell they have designer handbags that hold 11.

Re:False positives

[chipwizme]

And similarly, there will be a method to bypass it... that will be released even before it is.

Re:False positives

[Lars T.]

If this is designed to stop thieves then it is a poor way of doing it since it is going to inconvenience legitimate purchasers. Basically a thief will steal the ipod and sell it to some sucker in the pub rather than keep it. Well, boo-hooh-hooh for all those suckers who keep buying stuff from some guy at a pub. What exactly gave them the idea buying stolen goods was a good idea even if you don't get caught?

Re:False positives

[SanityInAnarchy]

I wonder...

Wouldn't you still be able to use the Mass Storage?

Re:False positives

[stewbacca]

NO, because I have a video iPod and a Nano (for running), my wife has a Nano (for running) and a 4th generation iPod, and my Son has a 1st gen Nano that came free with my MacBook. Gawd, I hate stupid questions like "Why would anyone (fill in the blank)". They only go to show how ignorantly egocentric most computer nerds are. I'm sure even a few of you are trying to figure out what "running" is, and another batch of you are trying to figure out what "wife" means.

Re:False positives

[mattatwork]

If you read the article you'll see the security feature is software based . The question is would this work if you don't have your iPod set to sync with just one computer. What if it's set so you can manually manage your songs, movies et cetera...?

The kind of dumb part of this is that when the thief cannot use the iPod, it's not like he/she is going to be thoughtful and kind enough to give it back to you. They'll probably wipe the hard drive, throw it away or trade it in at an Apple store for the 10% discount on a new iPod....

Re:False positives

[Anonymous Coward]

i think it's amazing how everyone here is flying off the handle, jumping the gun about this because it's actually very simple.

it works just like iTunes and the protected music Apple sell

you have an iPod linked to iTunes on one or however many computers you can have now activated with your iTunes account or something.

now follow me through a theoretical situation

my iPod gets stolen

robin banks sits down at his computer gets iTunes installed to wipe the iPod ready for sale down his local

iPod not registered with this computer

iPod locked down, will not charge ever

iPod useless disguarded

iPod found by clever good Samaritan and turned over to police or even better displays owners address in the address book so it can be returned

even better idea when you go to charge up a stolen iPod it will only display the owners address so it can be returned

now stop being a bunch of drama queens

weeee

[notque]

I hate that feature, you should be able to use your ipod on multiple machines. It's interesting as a lock out mech for thieves, but is the main reason why I sold my ipod, and have no intention of using one.

If I can't add, remove, edit songs on any machine I am not interested. I tried open source software for managing it, and that didn't work well at all.

Also, how would this work for reselling? I guess you resell with the same charger, or something.

Re:weeee

[balamw]

You can use any iPod with multiple computers. Just set it to manually manage music and it'll work fine with any machine you throw at it.

B

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

I tried open source software for managing it, and that didn't work well at all You are correct for all possible values of 'it'.

Re:weeee

[EvanED]

Wait, forget using it on multiple machines. Does this suggest that you need to plug your iPod into ANY machine to charge it? You can't just plug it into the wall?

If this is true, it seems like a really retarded idea to me. The times when I want an iPod the most -- when I'm on a trip -- are exactly the times when I'm not going to be near my machine and exactly the time when I'll need to charge it more.

Re:weeee

[Cahrin]

Rockbox is a good open source solution that allows you to manage your iPod on any machine without using iTunes.

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, sounds like a dumb idea thought of by smart guys.

Re:weeee

[Hijacked Public]

Lots of people think so, because Apple stopped including wall chargers with iPods somewhere around Gen 4ish. You just get the USB to iPod cable.

They can be had for about $5US at Fry's.

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

Not necessarily. The iPod looks for a code provided by iTunes. Presumably the wall chargers would provide no code at all. So the lockout would only happen when using an incorrect code, not if no code at all is presented.

Obviously that would mean the thieves could recharge it using a wall socket and listen to your music all they liked, but they would never be able to change the music on the device or resell it. And that would really limit the appeal of nicking one (especially if you nicked one from a Des O'Connor fan ;-))

Re:weeee

[EvanED]

That makes a lot more sense. I probably should have RTFA before commenting. (Not that I know TFA covers this bit, because I still haven't read it. But whatever.)

Re:weeee

[Poppler]

If I can't add, remove, edit songs on any machine I am not interested. I tried open source software for managing it, and that didn't work well at all. Has it been a while since you tried? This has gotten a lot better lately IMO. I use Amarok to manage my iPod; I use it on as many computers as I like, and it lets me pull songs from my (or any) ipod into my collection. It's as seamless as running iTunes, only without the restrictions.

Re:weeee

[Poromenos1]

I have looked at Rockbox, but if I can't sync with my player and have smart playlists that update themselves when I star/unstar songs (my main organization method on the iPod), it's going to be a bit cumbersome.

I have found that ml_ipod for Winamp is the best thing to manage your iPod with (and iTunes might be the worst piece of crap after RealPlayer). ml_ipod does anything I could ask for (except for unicode filenames :/), and if you don't need the advanced stuff, pmp_ipod which ships with winamp is also great.

Re:weeee

[oyenstikker]

Why couldn't they resell it?

Re:weeee

[notque]

It has been a while, I gave up my ipod in March I think. I was too frustrated after trying many programs, and never getting what I want. A simple syncing interface that allows me to move in and out files, podcasts, etc. Pictures, videos (I had a video Ipod)

The converters work fine, I loved that stuff, but I could not get it in any shape to be completely usable. I still suggest it to people, it just wasn't what I wanted. Hopefully it's improved and I'll give it another shot if it has.

Re:weeee

[Grishnakh]

If you want a very basic application for managing an iPod, gtkPod seems to work well, and works on Linux.

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

I was able to futz around in the directory tree of my brother's nano while it was plugged into my computer and copy a bunch of files onto my hard drive. I was then able to play them in my iTunes (OS X). Don't know what happens when you try the reverse.

The file names were all random characters, so it's a little hard to figure what's what, but they list with readable names in iTunes.

Apple makes it awkward to circumvent the iTunes interface, but there is nothing magical about it if you are remotely proficient at the command prompt and have some patience.

The only problem is that my musical taste and my brother's are utterly different.

Re:weeee

[jgarra23]

you should be able to use your ipod on multiple machines

You can.

If I can't add, remove, edit songs on any machine I am not interested.

Be interested then, you can.

Also, how would this work for reselling? I guess you resell with the same charger, or something.

No hardware dongle necessary. If they make it password-based.

Re:weeee

[STrinity]

You can use any iPod with multiple computers.

You can charge it on multiple computers -- now. But this "anti-theft" system would make that impossible, unless there's more to the system than we're being told.
 
Either way, you still can't sync your iPod to multiple computers -- say you have a lap top and a desktop at home, and you keep your music library on both.

Re:weeee

[Peet42]

http://www.rockbox.org/

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

So, rather than managing music based on, say, albums or something old fashioned like that, you prefer to assign star ratings to all your Kylie and similar and have the ipod choose your listening based on how poptastic each track in your collection happens to be? The iPod generation has no concept of albums...

Re:weeee

[flyingfsck]

gtkPod is also good at fixing corrupted iPods.

Re:weeee

[balamw]

You are dead wrong. http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=611 48

Manually managing what goes on your iPod is also helpful if you use your iPod on multiple computers or with multiple user accounts.

B

Re:weeee

[TheNetAvenger]

You can use any iPod with multiple computers. Just set it to manually manage music and it'll work fine with any machine you throw at it.

Or buy a real media device like a Creative Zen M or 100s of others, and they AUTOMATICALLY work with ANY AND ALL computers you plug them into.

They also let users just drag and drop virtually any type of music or video format without conversion and play on the devices without Apple disabling non-approved codecs.

I feel sorry for my iPod friends that are always waiting for WMAs to convert or trying to get a DivX on their Video iPod. They sadly didn't realize that non-iPod people actually have it easier.

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

I feel sorry for my iPod friends that are always waiting for WMAs to convert or trying to get a DivX on their Video iPod.

Yes, pity the iPod owners as they struggle through such a difficult life. You can tell they are all sad on the inside.

Re:weeee

[TheNetAvenger]

You can tell they are all sad on the inside.


What is that saying, oh ya, ignorance is bliss. ;)

Re:weeee

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better, move your library into the iPod. No more problems with auth.

Re:weeee

[that this is not und]

What is a 'corrupted Ipod'??

Surely you're not implying that Apple has a convoluted system for managing something as simple as an external hard drive with the added capability of playing the sound files stored on it. And I definitely hope you're not going to imply the convolution is any kind of DRM...

Re:weeee

[Grizzlysmit]

I hate that feature, you should be able to use your ipod on multiple machines. It's interesting as a lock out mech for thieves, but is the main reason why I sold my ipod, and have no intention of using one. If I can't add, remove, edit songs on any machine I am not interested. I tried open source software for managing it, and that didn't work well at all. Also, how would this work for reselling? I guess you resell with the same charger, or something.

Really I use gtkpod on Linux with my ipod shuffle and it works fine

Re:weeee

[Poppler]

Pictures, videos (I had a video Ipod) I can't really say how well that works, I have a third generation grayscale one.

In theory, anything that uses a recent version of libgpod to talk to ipods should be able to handle video and images. I don't know how well this has been implemented, but given the popularity of video ipods, I would expect it's moving forward if it's not already there yet.

Re:weeee

[stewbacca]

Or buy a real media device like a Creative Zen M or 100s of others, and they AUTOMATICALLY work with ANY AND ALL computers you plug them into.

Laughable post. Now wonder Zens and other craptacular "real" media devices dominate the market place since they "automatically" work with all computers...oh wait...damn it.

Re:weeee

[stewbacca]

No kidding was that post ever dead wrong. I didn't even have to read the link to know that I've been using 4 iPods on three Macs for over a year now with no problems.

Re:weeee

[TheNetAvenger]

Laughable post. Now wonder Zens and other craptacular "real" media devices dominate the market place since they "automatically" work with all computers...oh wait...damn it.

Actually your post is correct, but a sad comentary on the state of the industry. Marketing is now the 'true' technology and Apple could slap an 'i' on Turd and people on the fringe of actually understanding the technology would be out in masses just to say they own an iTurd. :)

If the average user or tech person would pay attention to features or technology instead of Marketing, the iPod would be a blip in history.

The reason I mentioned the Creative Zen M, is that is has won the CES awards for the last two years, gets the best reviews for sound quality, has a higher color display, can output DVD resolution, and isn't tied to iTunes or any other software, and supports virtually all standard and even non-mainstream codecs without conversion. Next time someone here is converting a DiVX torrent to play on their iPod, just remember there are Zen users that just drag and drop it on the Zen without conversion in a matter of seconds.

Re:weeee

[stewbacca]

There is a LOT more to functionality than the ability to play DiVX files. Saying a Creative Zen is somehow a superior overall product just does't make any sense, and you can't chalk up the iPod's success to "marketing". Plus, my Nano doesn't even play videos ;-)

Re:weeee

[TheNetAvenger]

There is a LOT more to functionality than the ability to play DiVX files. Saying a Creative Zen is somehow a superior overall product just does't make any sense, and you can't chalk up the iPod's success to "marketing". Plus, my Nano doesn't even play videos ;-)


Well that wasn't my argument, but sure we can go with that.

So on my non-iPod Nanoish device, I just copy WMA files or other Audio formats without conversion.

Also my device cost $20, has more space than a nano, and I don't have to use iTunes or convert my songs when transfering them to it. ;)

Bricks anyone?

[Applekid]

Give iPod Thieves an Unchargeable Brick Can't I just keep the ipod and give them a brick painted as an iPod like the P-P-P-Powerbook instead?

Re:Bricks anyone?

[DF5JT]

> Can't I just keep the ipod and give them a brick painted as an iPod like the P-P-P-Powerbook instead?

Very funny indeed. You did follow that link, didn't you?

Quote:

***
3) Finally, and most disturbingly, Jeff was not heard from again. I personally e-mailed him for permission to run his story on ZUG, but after an initial response, I never heard from him again. All of his Web sites have come down, and he is nowhere to be found.
***

DRM

[Anonymous Coward]

What's that rumbling in the distance? Oh, that's the sound of the DRM trolls on their way to Slashdot.

It would be unfortunate

[Paxton]

... if car chargers won't work.

Re:It would be unfortunate

[amigabill]

Or car head-units that control the ipod from the dash and send ipod audio directly through the car amps and speakers.

Re:It would be unfortunate

[ad0gg]

Sounds like a good way to demand royalties from 3rd party hardware vendors. Its DRM for hardware.

another idea

[notoriousE]

An ipod is plugged into an unauthorized computer and all of a sudden dozens of crappy songs are downloaded to it... songs that no one wants to hear like

Freeze Frame by J Geils Band

or wannabe by the spice girls

or wake me up before you go go by wham

mmmbop by hanson

you know, horrible stuff like that --- i know if i were a thief the idea of horrible music would deter me

Re:another idea

[Radon360]

But you forgot the part about locking into an unstoppable, repetitious playing of named songs at full volume through whatever audio outputs and speakers are available to it.

Don't forget about that wonderful screen. You got to cycle through some distasteful images with interlaced commentary for added effect. Goatse, perhaps as one?

Re:another idea

[metlin]

And here I thought that the kind of people that wanted an iPod were the kind that listened to *exactly* that kind of music! ;-)

Re:another idea

[realthing02]

You are correct. I'm sure there aren't any fingerprints one could lift on that hand held device.

Re:another idea

[Anonymous Coward]

wannabe by the spice girls

(Real conversation between myself and a coworker during the Spice Girls' popularity)

Coworker (Singing):

"So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna---"

Me:

"I want you to Shut. Up."

She looked at me with the most surprised look on her face. Right before breaking out into fits of laughter. Who knew that Spice Girl fans actually had a sense of humor?

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go dig up my Mmmmbop album.

Re:another idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Well at least I know my iPod is safe from your thieving hands.

Re:another idea

[empaler]

Bottle Guy is a serious contender. Ergh. Ugh. Argh.

Re:another idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Not bad enough...plus, there's bound to be copyright issues with putting full songs on there.

I say pick one of those songs (mmmbop would be a good one) and find some 2 second part of the song (attempting to maximize the annoyance factor) and then have that 2-second snippet loop endlessly.

That would work, presuming it doesn't violate the Geneva convention in some way.

Re:another idea

[pkpdjh]

I would do it a different way. If the iPod is plugged into an AUTHORIZED computer, but is expected to play crappy music like that, it disables itself. Sometimes, we have to use technology to save people from themselves.

Re:another idea

[Khaed]

I like the idea of stealing Orrin Hatch's idea, but modifying it a bit. instead of blowing up music pirates' computers, if my iPod is taken more than, say, 50ft from the special hidden locator I have, a charge of C4 explodes.

(note: this is a joke before some no-humor ass-clown responds bitching that murder is not an appropriate punishment for theft -- you know who you are!)

Re:another idea

[gkhan1]

There is actually something about that in the Geneva Conventions. Quoting:

Henceforth, signatories shall respect human dignity in all its citizens and prisoners of war. They shall not be subjected to degrading treatment, such as torture, sleep deprivation, excessive interrogation, bad puns or Mmm-bop by the Hanson Brothers, et cetera. Violation of this shall be considered the grossest of atrocities and justify international sanctions. Especially the last one. Seriously.

Re:another idea

[RobertLTux]

or if you really want to be evil try any of the Chant albums by the Benidictine Monks of Santo Domingo De Silos

they are a real live group of Gregorian Monks no instruments and they sing in LATIN

Re:another idea

[RobertLTux]

well i could think of 2 things to make it work

1 size the juice to just burn the ipod
2 play a special and annoying track (maybe scales in the key of screech) and then tell folks what this track is (as in if you hear this track get rid of the pod!!)

maybe a few grams of semtex??

Re:another idea

[syrrys]

Your sarcasm asside, I dont know if you are aware of this but there are materials/coatings in existence which are impervious to fingerprints. Hey, thanks for playing the talking out of your ass game. Please come again!

Not the only use

[Dan East]

I'm sure the usefulness of this technology in other areas has been considered as well. Specifically, things like bricking a device because a subscription has run out, or disabling it because DRM rights have been violated. After all, once the hardware is in place, it can be used for other purposes by simple software "upgrades".

Dan East

Re:Not the only use

[megaditto]

Why stop there, why not connect the 'guardian' circuit to a crowbar thyristor across a Sony Li-ion battery?

Re:Not the only use

[flyingfsck]

Yes, like refusing to use an ink cartridge by another manufacturer...

Better to not get it stolen in the first place.

[Filter]

Hide it in a Zune.

Re:Better to not get it stolen in the first place.

[backwardMechanic]

Don't be silly. We all know the Zune's a mythical beast, and doesn't really exist.

Great...

[Radon360]

Finally a digital device that will go on an energy hunger strike if it doesn't like its connectivity situation.

So, would this make the iPhone the Gandhi of portable devices?

Bad idea

[hcdejong]

I've recharged friends' iPods on my computer (which is obviously not authorized for that iPod). If that were to result in bricking the iPod, I'd be pissed.

Unbricking the iPod when it's connected to an authorized computer would mitigate, but not solve, the problem.

Re:Bad idea

[aallmighty]

it wouldn't "brick" the ipod, it just wouldn't allow you to charge it with that computer

PRM

[MontyApollo]

PRM...Physical Rights Management...

Re:PRM

[rob1980]

I prefer PCE: Physical Consumer Enablement. It's more... enabling.

Re:PRM

[YU5333021]

PMS... Physical Management Security...

Now that's a plug you'd want your device to stay away from.

Thieves?

[muellerr1]

This may be marketed as a theft-deterrent, but it's also enabling Apple to exert more control over when and how you listen to your own music. This would also make it very easy for Apple to brick your iPod for doing something they don't approve of. Not that I'm saying they'd abuse that power that way, but it would be technically possible.

Re:Thieves?

[Jarjarthejedi]

Which is why I've stuck with my old Shuffle despite it's new cousin coming out...there is always a sweet spot where a technology works great and is relatively bug free, and the company hasn't started fully taking advantage of it yet, get in to early and deal with bugs, too late and deal with 'protection' from the company...

iPods and multiple machines

[metlin]

I've already had hell with the ridiculous interface of iTunes and trying to sync my music across more than one machine (work + home + notebook).

Now, on top of everything, it's going to refuse to charge unless I show that I am the owner on all three? Or maybe, I can only charge it on one?

Either way, this is only making a bad problem worse.

Bad enough that iTunes has more than once destroyed my music backup because I tried added music from another machine. Now it's also going to not let me use my iPod?

Nice. And here I thought Apple was about usability.

Re:iPods and multiple machines

[stewbacca]

So you are saying the problem is somewhere between the chair and the keyboard? You actually lost music because you can't read the dialogue window that pops up every time you attach an iPod to a machine or account that isn't tha main account? Sorry, but millions of other people (my 11 year-old included) have figured out quite easily how to use multiple iPods with multiple iTunes accounts and NOT lose their music.

utterly nonsense

[Anonymous Coward]

when i am somewhere else and forgot my charger, i wont be able to get power anymore ... thanks, what a wonderful idea, use biometrics like a fingerprint instead if you really think its needed, the basic hardware seems to be there already imho

What could possibly go wrong?

[uncreativeslashnick]

Great feature! Can't imagine what could possibly go wrong...

Please stop protecting me from myself

[HitekHobo]

There's nothing I like better than features built into software and hardware that prevent it from working in an unintended and perhaps more efficient way. At least sell two different versions or let the buyer set this on or off before the first use. I'd hate to find out that product X will never work with my equipment because I don't have an apple approved piece of hardware or an apple approved driver etc. Why not just use the ever-annoying hardware dongle to authenticate. Remember how much we loved those things?

Not surprised...

[lantastik]

One of the MANY reasons I would never buy an iPod.

Re:Not surprised...

[Anonymous Coward]

What would you get as an alternative? Or were you just riding your troll?

Re:Not surprised...

[brunascle]

for the record, my zen is fantabulous. of course, i'm annoyed that it cant play flac or ogg, so my next one will probably be a cowon.

Re:Not surprised...

[lantastik]

Speaking of troll and posting as AC... I didn't think anyone really cared what I would get. This just happens to be one of the reasons I would never buy an iPod. ...but since you asked so politely, I own an Archos 604 WiFi: http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_604/in dex.html?country=global&lang=en

Crack-around available in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

[ClickOnThis]

Honestly, how long would it take for someone to find a way around this and post it on the internet? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea -- kind of a DRM for the device-owner instead of the content-owner, for a change. Still, I can't see it working as a deterrent to theives for all that long.

Re:Crack-around available in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...

[hobo sapiens]

Exactly. This will do exactly what DRM does: punish some legitimate users and be cracked by anyone with a little bit of know-how. Why isn't this fact obvious to everyone?

How about not walking through dark alleys flashing your iPod? How about not leaving it in your parked car in plain sight? In other words, this is not the way to deter theft.

Charge through a AC Adapter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just charge it through the AC Adapter? How would the iPod know if it was being charged from a non trusted computer? Now if you want to change music?

Re:possible solutions

[TheMeuge]

I suppose it would be relatively easy to implement a password system, where you generate a password when you first plug in a new iPod, and then have to use it when you sync or charge. That would let you use the iPod on as many computers as you want, as long as you enter the password. If you forget the password, you can go back to the Apple store with your credit card or receipt, and since all iPods have unique identification, they could reset it for you, once you provide proof that it's your property. ... wouldn't work too well if you bought it on ebay though... ... but I suppose Apple would enjoy it if their products weren't able to be resold.

What if it's recovered?

[Anonymous Coward]

What happens when the iPod is stolen, does it's magical transformation into a brick, but then gets returned to the owner? Will it forever remain a brick?

Re:What if it's recovered?

[arminw]

.....Will it forever remain a brick?......

Why should it? The iPod serial number and the iTunes password can be stored in the legitimate users account by Apple and in the iPod. As long as the thief is happy with the music already stored on the iPod, it will always work in a car or any other source of power. If it is ever plugged into an unauthorized computer it refuses to charge after that.

If a legal owner wishes to transfer the iPod to someone else, he/she must first clear out the password. Only the legal owner can do that. After that point the iPod is unprotected, just as it was when bought new and may be used be a new owner. The new owner may protect the iPod with his/her own password, which is also sent to Apple. If a stolen iPod is plugged into an unauthorized computer, that computer not only locks the iPod but also sends its IP address to Apple which sends an email with that information to the registered user it was stolen from. The legal user can then use that info to try to get their iPod back. The whole system will work essentially similarly as Apple's DRM does today. Such a free service from Apple would be an added incentive to become a registered customer of the iTunes store.

In other words....

[Anonymous Coward]

Now Apple can make sure all of those third party docking pods have paid the Apple tax. Apple must have had a meeting with the ink jet makers.
Oh please, twist the story and prove to me why this is really a good thing for the vast majority of users.
OMG, think of all the stolen iPods!!! Do that many iPods really get stolen where this is needed? If so, wouldn't a lock function where some type of password or some specific thumb wheel action is required be a better option like all cell phones have?

What about non PC charging?

[gstoddart]

I've got an external USB charger I use when I'm traveling, would they decide my iPod needs to die if I used it?

All I want to be able to do is charge my friggin' iPod when I'm away from home. I don't think Apple should be deciding where I can charge my iPod -- what damage to them if I use a different machine to *charge* the damned thing.

I mean, it's not like you can extract songs from an iPod readily. (At least, not such that I've seen). This just sounds like really dumb functionality.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[csnydermvpsoft]

AFAIK, charging alone wouldn't brick an iPod - syncing would. If you synced your iPod with an unfamiliar (to it) version of iTunes, the charging circuit would effectively self-destruct.

Yet another reason why I have no plans to buy an iPod...

Re:What about non PC charging?

[internetcommie]

You can extract songs from an iPod very easily if you have the right software. There are many programs that are specifically made to do that, and also a few that let you handle the iPod like a disk so you can see and handle the files on it just like ordinary files, including copying them to another disk. Can't think of the names of all of them, but they are usually called things like iBackup or iDisk.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[GuldKalle]

Or you could just use any media player that can read id3 tags and copy files. Foobar can do it, i suspect others can too.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, it's not like you can extract songs from an iPod readily. (At least, not such that I've seen).

Actually, any good mp3 player will pull songs off an iPod.

Winamp actually has a feature that recognizes that you've plugged in an iPod, and treats it accordingly. iTunes isn't necessary at all to use an iPod.

This circuit could potentially be used to brick the iPods of people not using iTunes software to access their music. Though they would probably get hit with a bunch of lawsuits if that happened.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[arminw]

...... I don't think Apple should be deciding where I can charge my iPod ........

They wouldn't as long as you are the legal owner. Only after a thief plugs it into another computer to sync/charge it, would the ipod be locked. If you, as the rightful owner plugged into your computer, it would automatically be unlocked. As long as it is unlocked, it would work with any charger, but not with an unauthorized computer. A thief couldn't sync the iPod or charge it on another computer. They could charge it and play it in a car or other non-computer charging device. They would be stuck with your music forever. If you sold your iPod you would have to unlock it with your password first.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[STrinity]

They wouldn't as long as you are the legal owner. Only after a thief plugs it into another computer to sync/charge it, would the ipod be locked.

Because heaven knows, the only way an iPod would be plugged into another computer other than my home PC is if someone's stolen in. I mean, it's not like anyone would ever charge their iPod at work, or while spending the night at an SO's place.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[falconwolf]

...... I don't think Apple should be deciding where I can charge my iPod ........

They wouldn't as long as you are the legal owner. Only after a thief plugs it into another computer to sync/charge it, would the ipod be locked.

Apple shouldn't be telling me what computers I can and can't plug an iPod into either. And exactly how would Apple know if it was stolen? If I use an iPod to store files or photos and want to share them with a friend it's none of Apple's business. But if they make it so I can't charge my iPod, if I had one but don't, when I connect to anyone else's computer that's exactly what they are doing. Telling how I can use my legally bought iPod.

Falcon

Re:What about non PC charging?

[DavidTC]

Actually, it disables itself after a week. I.e., if you plug it into an unauthorized computer, it waits a week, and then stops accepting a charge from any charger.

If you plug it into an authorized computer before then, it presumably resets the clock. If you do it after then, it will unlock.

The headline here is completely idiotic. (Newflash, slashdot headline misleading.) The iPod never 'bricks' itself.

It just says, if you use some unauthorized computer to change music on the iPod, you'll have to plug it into an authorized computer or it, at some point in the near future, will not charge itself until you do. This doesn't, strictly speaking, sound like it would apply to 'charging', because you don't need a computer to charge it at all, although usually computers that are turned on would automatically mount it as a USB drive which would be enough to trip the protection.

Of course, who this really is going to affect is people who don't use iTunes. Actually, if they never use iTunes, they might be safe, because the iPod won't have an 'authorized computer' and won't care at all. It's the people who have an iTunes install so they can do DRM music, but also, for example, use a Linux computer to put normal mp3s on there. If they don't use their iPod that often, they could take it on a trip only to discover the last computer they plugged it into was their Linux box, two weeks ago, and now it won't charge.

Hell, forget weirdo Linux users and people who prefer to use something besides iTunes to manage their mp3s. People walk around using their iPods as thumbdrives, too, on random computers. (Despite this being somewhat dangerous if that person has iTunes installed, because it might delete all their music because it has decided to 'sync'.)

I suspect that's really the reason it was set up like this. What would have been more useful is password protection. I mean, they already have a custom music database you have to put on there to make music show up, why not just require that database to be 'signed', using a trivial, public, and one-way algorythm that's just a hash of the database and a key that's stored in firmware? It'd have exactly the same results...thieves unable to change the music, and yet any app that handles the somewhat stupid extra database the iPod requires could easily make the hash too, as long as it knew the key.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[maxume]

http://www.floola.com/modules/wiwimod/index.php?pa ge=WiwiHome

Re:What about non PC charging?

[arminw]

..... And exactly how would Apple know if it was stolen?....

You tell them by locking your ipod to your computer and itunes account. If you don't want to do that, then don't. If you take the ipod to a friend's house and plug it into their computer, their computer will tell you the ipod is locked. It will ask if you want to log into your itms account. After you do, the ipod is unlocked and the friend's computer is added to the authorized computer list. Before you go home, you can decide to de-authorize that computer again, otherwise it will remain authorized. Before you go over there or on a trip, you can take the risk and de-protect your ipod.

When a thief plugs the protected ipod into an unauthorized computer, the ipod asks if he wants to authorize that computer. He/she can't because they cannot log into your iTms account. That computer also sends its IP address and your ipod serial number to Apple, which sends you an email with that information. The ipod now also becomes a brick. You can decide what action to take with that information. If by chance you should get your ipod back you plug it back into your computer an it will be unbricked and synced again. If you decide to sell the ipod, you'd unprotect it first and erase all your music. Apple could advertise these security features as another selling point. You, however decide whether you want to use them, just as you can for their File Vault encryption system on Macs.

Re:What about non PC charging?

[falconwolf]

When a thief plugs the protected ipod into an unauthorized computer, the ipod asks if he wants to authorize that computer. He/she can't because they cannot log into your iTms account. That computer also sends its IP address and your ipod serial number to Apple

The computer can't send it's IP addie if it's not connected to the net or if a firewall is being used. And it won't be long before someone breaks the code, so while it may make it harder for a causal thief to use an iPod it won't deter a determined crook, look cellphone have all these things yet they get stolen all the tyme.

will never happen....

[FunkyELF]

I could see not letting iTunes do anything with it on an unauthorized computer, but charging? What bout all the other non-computer things that charge iPods now-a-days like car kits or plain old usb power adapters that go into wall sockets.

My girlfriend has a car charger, a wall charger, and an iHome which all charge her iPod.

Re:will never happen....

[courtarro]

Yeah, the hardest part about implementing this would be recognizing non-computer charging devices in legitimate cases. If the cutoff circuitry is in the iPod itself, that means each "dumb" charger would need to have electronics capable of providing identification. If this were not the case (and it would be very impractical), your point would be very much in effect. This is certainly just another case of a company filing a patent to protect an idea, not one they necessarily plan to take to market.

Re:will never happen....

[isorox]

My girlfriend has a car charger

Just because your blow-up doll has a vibrator doesn't mean it's your girlfriend.

Re:will never happen....

[Puff Daddy]

Fine, she can use the car charger, wall charger, iHome charger, solar-powered charger, diesel charger, gas charger, wind charger, or free energy charger all she wants. Just so long as they don't try to sync their library with her iPod. Since none of those are, or should, be able to do that I don't think it will be a problem.

Re:will never happen....

[arminw]

....charger would need to have electronics capable of providing identification.....

No it wouldn't. The iPod would only get turned into a brick by a computer that doesn't have YOUR authority, not Apple's and not by some dumb charger. You could use it anywhere. If you took your ipod to a friend's house and plugged it unto their computer, the ipod would become a brick. However, if you then took it home, it would get unbricked again for YOU as soon as you plugged into your authorized computer. If you wanted to sell or give the ipod to your friend, you would have to unprotect your ipod first. Your friend/customer could then sync and optionally protect the ipod they got from you with their own password. I think such a system would make iPod theft less frequent.

Maybe

[The Cisco Kid]

*IF* the owner of the device, using some sort of key or password, had complete control of which computers were 'authorized', this might be a great way to discourage theft of iPods.

Obviously, if the owner did not have control, then it is utter crap user-hostile technology.

great idea

[brunascle]

uh oh, your PC stopped booting? congratulations, you iPod just did too.

Re:great idea

[FauxPasIII]

> uh oh, your PC stopped booting? congratulations, you iPod just did too.

Oh well, off to the Apple store to buy a new computer, a new iPod, and then to iTunes to buy all my music again...

Sorry, what was the downside of this for Apple?

Re:great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Did you lose the security code too? That's stupid.

Re:great idea

[LoverOfJoy]

The downside is that the new ipod might be spelled 'Zune'.

Is that true?

[tacokill]

Is it true that iPods can only pair up with one computer? I don't have one but this seems like a pretty hard limitation, if true.

So what do you do if you have a work AND home computer? You can only synch on one?

I am so confused.

Re:Is that true?

[varmittang]

When you connect your iPod to a different computer, it pops up saying that it is synced with a different computer. I believe it also asks if you want to pair it with the current computer, or just leave it paired with the other computer, just allowing you to sync more music and video to it, not the personal contacts and stuff.

I can see it now...

[BigCanOfTuna]

...the thief only wanted my $250 iPod, but took my $3000 MacBook Pro to make it work.

Um...

[GoodbyeBlueSky1]

What about the (old-fashioned!) method of charging via wall-outlet? Do I have to register my apartment with Apple now?

Something in this article seems fishy and I don't think we're getting the full story of Apple's intentions, because the whole thing makes zero sense to me.

Re:Um...

[EtoilePB]

Ditto. I have a 5th gen iPod now but I still charge primarily from the wall charger that came with my 3rd gen iPod (which had an, er, unfortunate sidewalk incident). In fact, at least ten of my co-workers have iPod wall chargers that either came with their iPods or they bought somewhere as accessories (because we're always mooching off each other when one of us has no battery).

So... yeah. I really don't care if my iPod won't charge on someone else's computer, because it'll probably charge on someone else's wall.

Re:Um...

[STrinity]

How about just resetting the bloody thing to the factory default so it doesn't know what computers it's allowed to sync with.

Free AAC's but Locked Device

[asphaltjesus]

This is very useful for a myriad of devices that connects to the internet. The device in question (ex. ipod, laptop) is a total slave in the sense that rogue devices will have a temporary impact.

RIAA members are probably quite satisfied with it. It's conceivable that governments would be pleased as well.

This is a Hack Waiting to Happen.

[deweycheetham]

enuff said...

Make the iPod impossible to update.

[pcraven]

I've learned that if you plug a USB socket into the Firewire plug on your motherboard, any subsequently connected USB iPod is then "secured" against further updates. Interesting noises are included as the internal protection circuit is established.

You can still charge it.

Would be better for the iPhone

[bryan1945]

Your iPhone gets stolen, you report it. The next time the iPhone connects to the network it get a notification that it's stolen. Next time you sync to iTunes, it reports its IP, location (in a future GPS enabled version), something.

Deploy RDF forces and, wham!, Voldermort is spanked by Darth Vader!

Or did I just mix to many metaphors at the end? (I still think my first idea is ok, though)

What would be better

[Toreo asesino]

would be if an iPod had an optional lock code that on first sync would be entered and subsequently remembered....no code, no charge. Oh, and just make sure external chargers would work too...I know that would be a way around not having any battery, but one set of tracks gets pretty damned boring after a while

hacking the xbo.. i mean ipod

[conspirator57]

If they want this to work, they'd better integrate the whole charging circuit into the CPU or people (me included) will cut their punk-ass enable line on the circuit board.

Re:hacking the xbo.. i mean ipod

[geekoid]

yes, but there s what? maybe 1000 people in the world that would bother?

Re:hacking the xbo.. i mean ipod

[conspirator57]

and there were only like 1000 people who would chip your playstation a few years back, too.

Re:So what?

[Slippery Pete]

I agree. I would rather have the product work everywhere (car chargers, other people's chargers when I forget mine, etc) than have an inconvenience for a thief.

Nothing promises this technology won't be broken in the future, which just means the people who paid money for the device are the ones inconvenienced.

Re:possible solutions

[realthing02]

What happens when it's given as a gift? I don't expect the receiver to hold onto a piece of paper for very long... I don't like this idea. Unless you can definitely determine that someone else is using the ipod improperly- this seems like a bad idea. But if anyone can figure this out, it's apple.

Good idea, if following is implemented

[mmxsaro]

I find this to be a pretty neat idea, IMHO, but only if the following options were introduced to eliminate potential disasters.

1) Allow the owner to pair with more than one machine/iTunes setup, perhaps with a PIN (set by the owner) of some sort as a means of security. This would work if the PIN entry was done on the iPod though, or else people not using iTunes would be out of luck. iTunes server-auth could work too.
2) If the iPod's charging mechanism were to be accidentally turned off (you forgot your PIN, etc.) then reactivation would still be possible if I were to dock my iPod on my legit machine back home with the right codes.

This option should also be able to be turned off in case one were to sell his iPod to a new user (in iTunes, "Change iPod Owner" function before you ship it off to someone...) or else we'd be stuck with the device forever.

Re:possible solutions

[MPAB]

How long till advertisements appear on ebay, offering to unlock iPods for half the price and no questions asked?

Maybe for the iPhone, not the iPod

[moore.dustin]

The iPhone can _maybe_ benefit from something like this, but not the iPod. The iPhone has personal information (maybe), but really it does not make sense for either device. Why is it the treat their customer as thieves a,s the solution to 'thieves.'

The big problem

[Megane]

So what happens when your power adapter breaks?

Got a soldering iron?

[TrebleJunkie]

Anyone with a soldering iron and a little time on their hands would likely be able to bypass this. You've got to have a battery somewhere, and you've got to have leads to that battery.

Yeah, it means cracking open the device, but if you've stolen it, there's a good chance you're not going to care all that much about some pry marking on the case.

Re:Got a soldering iron?

[JamesRose]

Okay, so now that your thick as pig crap theif has opened up the case, maiming the device forever, and performed electronic surgery far beyond their ability... what's next?

Re:Got a soldering iron?

[The_Wilschon]

It is interesting that Apple products' aesthetics seem to be a much better deterrent to tinkering inside the case than "YOUR WARRANTY AND LIFE ARE VOID IF YOU REMOVE THIS STICKER"...

Re:Got a soldering iron?

[noidentity]

Nope, charging modern batteries is not as simple as a limited current fixed voltage like the old NiCd batteries were. You need a chip to do it, and that chip is where this hypothetical bricking technology would be. The only way to bypass a bricked chip would be to solder a new one in its place.

Re:Got a soldering iron?

[ax_42]

.... but it also becomes a lot more difficult to sell the stolen iPod once it's modded that way. "It's the iPod gangsta edition, honest"

Re:Got a soldering iron?

[toddestan]

They could always chip the battery too. Which means that you would then have to hack apart the battery to get around the chip. Still possible, but a lot harder and potentially more dangerous depending on how hard it is to crack open the battery's case.

Apple are wusses

[Sciros]

I fully expect Microsoft to counter this pansy-ass display of "user protection" with the PROPER way of doing it -- if someone plugs the Zune into an unauthorized computer, the Zune explodes. KABLAMO! It'll be like Blade's sword, only with less bad acting.

Anyway like a bunch of people have already said, this is probably going to anger a lot more people than it's going to make happy (as far as consumers go). I for one would rather *not* have my device have a feature like "if you hook this up to the "wrong" machine, it's forever forfeit."

Not to mention this won't act as a deterrent for thieves worth crap.

So my car charger is not authorized?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

There are dozens of vendors like belkin selling simple chargers for iPods without using the USB ports. So they all wont be able to charge iPods? Apple can at best thwart iTunes/iPod link on devices reported to be stolen. But preventing charging? Nah.

Re:So my car charger is not authorized?

[arminw]

......So they all wont be able to charge iPods?.......

Any thief will be able to charge the old existing ones, but not change their content. On new iPods, Apple could add a circuit inside that prevents charging. Maybe, even the power management system in the present ipods could be locked.

this is horrible

[SolusSD]

can you imagine the consumer outcry when thousands of iPod owners can't get their iPods to turn on simply because they didn't understand the concept of pairing their iPod with their machine?

Re:this is horrible

[Anonymous Coward]

The jedis are going to feel this one!

what if I have miultiple computers?

[amigabill]

Say I have my music library stored on a large hard drive in a desktop. But I go on vacation and take my laptop, and try to charge my ipod from the laptop via the USB cable because that's smaller than the wall-wart? Is my own laptop recognized as a different PC and does that lock me out of my own ipod? Maybe I'm at a friend's house and want to charge up my ipod before we go on a long bike ride or run together, and I left my own authorized laptop at home? He has a USB cable but not a wall wart. Does his computer lock me out of my own ipod even though I had no intention of even running itunes or transferring files, I just wanted some fresh electrons?

I hope they have a plan in mind to make sure people are not locked out of their own devices.

Re:what if I have miultiple computers?

[gnasher719]

'' I hope they have a plan in mind to make sure people are not locked out of their own devices. ''

1. One week delay before the bricking actually takes place.
2. You can authorise any number of computers.
3. Plugging the iPod into any authorised computer fixes it.

In this scenario, the annoying case would be if you take your iPod on a two week holiday, you've never used it with your laptop, and after a week you can't charge it anymore. When you're back home, you'll plug it into your main computer and everything is fine.

Uhh...

[Jaysyn]

DRM for electronics? No thanks.

Excellent business case

[wiresquire]

What a great way to stop people selling their iPods to someone else and instantly making 2nd hand market for iPods impossible!

1. The device is 'attached' to a particular person's computer(s)
2. The device and user is known to the manufacturer, eg via iTunes
3. As the iPod can be effectively rendered useless if someone else buys or uses it, you can't buy one 2nd hand, so you have to fork out for a new one.
4. Profit!

I suggest buying AAPL immediately!

Re:Excellent business case

[arminw]

.....What a great way to stop people selling their iPods to someone else and instantly making 2nd hand market for iPods impossible! ......

Why? If you sell your iPod, you just erase it and unlock it first. If someone steals it, they can't do either without your password. They can charge it on an external charger or in a car, but they are stuck with whatever content you had on it.

1984?

[Pap22]

Does anyone else find it ironic how Apple has become the very thing their iconic 1984 commercial rebelled against?

Re:1984?

[geekoid]

they were rebelling against mediocrity. This has nothing to do with that.

Re:1984?

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got a point - vendor lock-in is hardly mediocre at all.

I will take a moment to remind people

[geekoid]

that this is a patent, not an implementation.

Re:I will take a moment to remind people

[Anonymous Coward]

that this is a patent, not an implementation.

Think for a moment about this being a publicly released bit of evildoerness. What about the stuff protected as trade secrets? Yet another reason not to trust them, and to add them to a growing list of companies more concerned about the pounds of crap per dollar sold ratio than whether it's of any use to the customer. Be a damn shame if their next patented iPod killer self-destructed explosively when the customer attended a rally not reviewed and approved by the Emperor of the day.

Then there's the fact that they're dreaming up iPod killers at all. That's something that's usually best left to the competition, no? How "Bush"!

But why quibble, I'm never going to buy music that would play on it, anyway. The music world ended for me sometime much earlier in the Bush Years.

Hopefully it's well thought-out

[Luke Dawson]

Otherwise should your charger break, you're screwed. There has to be some sort of unlock mechanism available for legitimate times when using another charger/computer is needed ("oops, I dropped my charger/laptop in the bath"). Of course that means there'd be a way around the lock mechanism. Which means it will be cracked. Which essentially renders it pointless to all but the Google-impaired.

Re:Hopefully it's well thought-out

[arminw]

....when using another charger/computer is needed.....

Simple, you authorize any computer by logging into your itunes account. After that you can plug your iPod into it. It will then ask if you want to sync it with the new computer, as it does now. You just reply cancel and charge your ipod. Since a thief cannot log into your account the computer would brick the ipod.

False Possitives

[varmittang]

That is what everyone is wondering about. But I'm thinking that there could be a pass phrase or something to unlock the iPod to any computer, so that it isn't accidentally locked and can't be undone. Now, if it gets locked, thats when no charger will work until you plug it into a computer and put in the correct pass phrase to undo the no charging. I would see that working and helping to keep theft down.

The nice thing about these types of innovations

[Anonymous Coward]

is that nothing can possibly go wrong! Sure, we'll give guns to the robot guards -- after all, their loyalty and logic are impeccable. Sure, an electromagnetic field can prevent the powerplant's antimatter from touching the containment vessel -- and it's foolproof because a powerplant never loses power! Sure, we can encrypt the information that the customer bought, because they'll always be able to call us to get the key. Sure, we can engineer our electronic device to not recharge if stolen -- because the intentionally defective behavior will (really!) only be triggered by theft.

I, for one, welcome our Apple overlords. One thing they've taught me, is that computers never, ever make mistakes or screw up. The chances of my iPod and my iMac disagreeing and ruining my day, are so remote as to not be worth thinking about.

Just What Are You Expecting?

[Nom du Keyboard]

Just what are you expecting here? That when the thief discovers that this is a 'new unchargable' iPod that he's going to return it to you? He'll toss it away, or sell it for less to a hack shop. Either way, you'll never see your iPod again, so how have you benefited?

Re:Just What Are You Expecting?

[bmwm3nut]

Well initially it wouldn't change anything. But as thieves learn that the resale value of an iPod is essentialy $0 because it can't be recharged, then theft will go down. Of course, it doesn't stop someone from taking it just because they're an asshole and just want to take something from you. But it does stop the thief who's looking for money.

Re:Just What Are You Expecting?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Of course, it doesn't stop someone from taking it just because they're an asshole and just want to take something from you. But it does stop the thief who's looking for money.

What's the battery time for an iPod? 6 hours, maybe? A music lover of less fortunate means could get by on a diet of 3 stolen iPods a day. 21 a week. Makes me yearn for the old days. When I was a lad, it might have been three stolen music players a year or less, depending on how clumsy the thief was. Oh wait! The patent isn't in use yet, so the pods stolen per insolvent music lover is still pretty low.

And also, we all know ghetto boyz'n'girlz who'd consider 6 hours of music for a dollar a good deal, as long as it wasn't all goofy tunes on the pod. Other people who've actually paid list for iPods never listen to them. In some social circles, a broken iPod is just as useful a status symbol, a piece of jewelry, as a working unit. Cheaper, too.

Re:Just What Are You Expecting?

[toddestan]

Why would the value of the stolen iPod be zero? What's to keep the theif from fencing the iPod before the battery goes dead? He'll be able to demonstrate that the iPod works, and by the time you figure out that you just bought a stolen iPod and that you cannot charge it, the theif is going to be long gone with your money.

What about accessories?

[erareno]

They don't send out this "code", do they?

Thieves aren't that dumb...

[Anonymous Coward]

They'd know it was a trick because nobody wants a Zune.

Pfff...

[morari]

Stolen iPods! Why not try being more responsible with your over-price and completely unnecessary piece of "technology" instead?

Misleading Summary

[kansas1051]

The summary makes it seems like this technology is "patented." Apple hasn't patented this yet, they only filed a patent application which was recently published (US 20070138999). It will probably be years before the U.S. Patent Office even exams this application to determine if a patent should be granted.

This could work better than you think

[jgarra23]

So if you could authorize an unlimited number of machines, the ipod would have the authorization key (read: password) encrypted on it & you could authorize your iPod on as many computers as you like by punching in your password. Of course, if you lose your password all you should have to do is tell iTunes (or whatever) to reset your password back to default or blank, thereby turning this functionality/feature off.

Maybe I'm missing something (or not) but this doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. The RIAA gets to encrypt & restrict MY music, why not at least give me the ability to encrypt and/or restrict my iPod??

Different idea

[bossesjoe]

How about something that phones home, meaning this could only happen if an a iPod was reported stolen and then resurfaced on another computer connected to the internet.

opt-in future proof protection

[goombah99]

Why would you need "authorization" just to charge your iPod on any box, I wonder. I can think of multile ways this could be implemented.
option 1) the ipod requires you to enter a password to charge or access it on a "foreign" computer. Not sure why charging matters here however.

option 2) the ipod simply won't charge on a foreign computer IF you opt-in to that feature. One would make that default off. But if enough people used that aspect, it might become a theft deterrent. plus it's something that could be enabled later on, even if there's no great ipod crime wave right now, and thus no perceived need.

For example, one could do it like the firmware password protection all macs have but is off by default. Of course it's not very effective for hardware theft because it can be overridden by anyone with possession of the computer. It's mainly for highetened data protection from people with casual opportunistic access. But if one were to implement it so that it could not be overridden except by apple, then I could see this working on ipods. Since ipods are seldom as mission critical as laptops, having one get locked and have to be sent in for repair is not as great a burden as it would be for the laptop.

Re:opt-in future proof protection

[tapehands]

I'd agree, except you need to realize something about the Entertainment Industry.

There are a good amount of people out there that realize they don't need an iPod to make it through the day. However, would you like to be the call center rep that gets Suzie Soccerwench on the line when she finds out the only defense she has against a van full of screaming brats has been incorrectly identified as stolen, and will need to be shipped off to Apple? The indignation and malice that these harpies can muster is practically unparalleled in the natural world.

(Background: I've worked in a cable company call center before. Telling someone, "Yes, you are absolutely correct. You will not be able to watch TV until our cable technician gets out there to fix it." usually doesn't end so well. Compare this to a 2-3 day shipping turn-around time if the bricked iPod does, indeed, need shipped back to Apple.)

Re:opt-in future proof protection

[goombah99]

Which is why it needs to be opt in. So you do it to yourself. No one will do it unless they perceive ipods have become a theft hazzard.

Re:opt-in future proof protection

[Crispy Critters]

"But if enough people used that aspect, it might become a theft deterrent.

Not unless 99+% of people use it. If 50% of people opt in, then thieves will just steal twice as many ipods. You also create a "prisoner's dilemma." Enabling this on my own ipod can only hurt me, because it makes charging and portability less easy, and it will never help me because whoever steals it won't know that this feature is enabled. So why would I ever enable it?

Re:opt-in future proof protection

[ronanbear]

Yeah, but the thief will make less money from stealing iPods if half of them are worthless. It's less worthwhile risking getting busted for something that might be worthless. In areas where there's more iPod theft the rate of usage of such a feature might increase. If iPods become less profitable to steal then thieves move onto something else instead.

There's a certain reassurance knowing that your iPod is less likely to be stolen. It also makes it harder for someone to nick it off your desk/out of your bag. If the thief can't charge it it might reappear. That'd mean that you're less inclined to worry about your iPod being stolen.

Isn't that kinda pointless...

[cthellis]

...considering anyone could charge on a purchased stand-alone adaptor?
...and they could likely just flash the iPod and start over from the beginning?

I suppose it could be a secuity OPTION, where you could choose to make it only charge from your computer, but again... isn't the purpose of flashing your machine to manufacturer's defaults to be able to undo any of those changes you regret making, to give it a complete rebirth?

At&t cutoff?

[mrshowtime]

Has anyone actually tried to get out of their contract with At&t after getting an Iphone yet? Will it still work as an Ipod after the sim card is deactivated? How long till someone hacks the software and starts holding people's Iphone's hostage for a fee?

It's already been done and legally challenged...

[whatme]

I think Apple might run into some anti-competitive issues with this one. Recall that the ink-jet printer industry got into big trouble with the 3rd party (read 'clone') cartridges not working because they needed to be specially chipped. They attempted to sue some suppliers that copied some of the ID codes, but were denied. Since people will want other ways to charge their devices besides an Apple made charger, I think this mode of bricking would be hard to enforce.

On the other hand, the simple fact that the software wouldn't let you actually LOAD any new songs onto the iPod might be sufficient deterrent, but that is a separate protection mechanism.

What happens

[phalse phace]

if I sell my iPod to someone, or if I buy a used iPod off someone on Craigslist, eBay, etc.?

Call me a cynic, but maybe Apple wants to prevent the resale of iPods also, thus more $$$ for them.

Re:What happens

[arminw]

.....if I sell my iPod to someone.....

You should erase and deactivate it with your password before you sell it.

Er, Stupid idea?

[geoff lane]

Concider the failure modes of such a scheme. Apart from the ones where the thief gets to use the iPod, they all result in the legitimate user losing the use of their iPod.

False patent

[pegr]

Patent? Prior art. Heck, my Verizon Razr has been doing this since day one. I have to load a special driver to get it to charge from my laptop's USB port. Without it, the screen just says "Unauthorized Charger"... It rejects any charger it didn't come with, even other Motorola chargers. Forget 3rd party devices. Bastards...

Oh, yeah, Apple, um, good luck with that...

Re:False patent

[Nasarius]

Prior art? You can't patent an idea. It's entirely possible, and likely, that Apple has patented a novel implementation of this.

Re:False patent

[Ash Vince]

Over on this side of the ponds mobile phones can be locked out like this when they are reported stolen.

It just mean you take it to one of 8 million market stalls or small shops who will unlock it for a small charge.

Re:False patent

[digitalchinky]

On my Asian side of the pond, few people have the first clue what an IMEI is, and for the most part they don't need to. People are not generally aware they can have their phones blacklisted in the event of theft, rarely will they go to the police, and even rarer still is the chance they might ever get their phone back. Modern handsets usually require swapping an IC off the board with one from an identical (and unlocked) phone to change the IMEI, it's not quite so easy as taking it to one of the 8 million market stalls any longer.

If you can't change the IMEI, then unlocking is useless.

Re:False patent

[amigabill]

Do, if your particular wall-wart dies or you forget it then you're screwed because you can't buy a new one? Great... I'm looking for a better phone to replace my LG9800 and this scratched the Razr right off my list. Thanks. (I have one charger at work and another at home)

Standalone chargers

[norminator]

And what about Apple's own charging accessories?

What if...

[Anonymous Coward]

the iPod only temporarily disabled it's charger until you plugged it back into the computer it's registered with and only disables it if it's plugged into another computer? While you wouldn't be able to charge on a friend's computer, you could still charge at their house with a wall adapter as long as you didn't try to charge on their PC first. I don't own an iPod (won't pay for the brand) but it sounds like you can't put songs on the iPod unless it's from the registered computer anyway so I'm not sure how this "additional" theft deterrent will be of much use if any. But that's an option. Still don't know enough of the details to make a sound judgment one way or the other.

However I bet this technology will be used more for bricking the iPod pending DRM infraction rather than deterring theft.

"Indefinitely" part bothers me

[suv4x4]

It quickly would turn into a prank you play at parties, school and college. Casually plug your friend's iPod in a nearby computer.

"Hahaha, I bricked your iPod FOREVER. LOLFMAOBBQ".

I'm sure it'll be very funny.

Re:"Indefinitely" part bothers me

[Anonymous Coward]

Indefinitely != Forever

In fact it likely means it will unbrick itself when you sync it with your own authorized iTunes.

The summary is screwed up. *surprise*

[ToasterMonkey]

How about reading the damned article or the patent filling? It doesn't suggest any of those things, you did. Probably because... nevermind, I've already lost you at the "reading" part.

Nothing but the summary says "indefinitely", and gosh, do you suppose this security feature might be a configurable OPTION? You know, like car alarms, home security alarms, and... almost any other "theft deterrent" system ever made? Damn, be realistic. "indefinitely", really, where in hell did that come from? Think for yourself sometime.

Easier way....

[DesertBlade]

Make it so you need to enter a password (or a combination of buttons) everytime you charge it. Now the user will always remember the password and if it get stolen it will only be good for a few hours.

Didn't Apple Already Invent This?

[lmnfrs]

When I bought my refurbished iPod from Apple it wouldn't charge. I called them to ask why and they said the most likely reason was that I was using a PC and not a Mac.

The Devil is in the details

[nickgrieve]

It sounds like a useful idea. I would imagine that it would be an option you have to explicitly enable. When you are away from the authorized computer, a simple password to charge on a guest machine running iTunes would be enough. If you wanted to use a dumb charger like a car kit then you could just give it a preset number of charges before you need to auth it again on your computer.

Indefinitely? Says who?

[CardiganKiller]

"Indefinitely"?

Where in the article did it say that? The article more implies that the device can be recharged once it's back in the right hands. There is also no mention of whether or not this feature is optional. Maybe some sort of password protection on an iPod will allow the user to switch on the theft-protection and also re-enable the charging circuit should their stolen device be returned? Speculation at best... both in this comment and in the article. The summary is just misleading.

FUDdy duddy.

...or refuses to charge based on DRM

[kimgkimg]

"Pirate songs, get a brick!"

Re:So what?

[Ajehals]

Mods - parent post isn't flamebait, but makes a rather naive point...

I would suggest that having a feature that locked the ipod out (or prevented further recharging) when it is used on a computer that the owner hasn't authorised it to be used on would reduce the resale value of stolen (and presumably fairly useless) ipods.

If the value of a stolen ipod is reduced there should be less incentive to steal ipods in general, after all you take a risk stealing one - that risk is of getting caught or possibly getting a kicking (or getting shot if you are in the states... :) and do so for a reward - the money you get from selling the nicked goods, if the reward is reduced why take the risk?

The only negatives I see with this would be if it were off by default, then any potential thief still has a fair chance of stealing a working device (after all many people will simply fail to enable this feature). Additionally if there were a common and relatively cheap way of unlocking the ipod again it loses its deterrent value.

All in all I see this as a potentially very positive feature, on the proviso that it is implemented sensibly, i.e. that the owner of the ipod control's the locking and unlocking mechanism and can both choose which machines to authorise without hassle (and without needing to use itunes) and unlock his/her ipod if it is used in a manner that wasn't expected (or indeed if the ipod is stolen and then returned).

I suppose it could be used as an addition to current DRM schemes in some way, but I doubt it would be, the ipod is too visible and there are too many alternatives, plus apple don't seem to be that stupid.

Personally I will stick to my ipaq, and at some point figure out if I can do full disk encryption with familiar.

iPod Has Flash...

[SydShamino]

The authorization doesn't have to be embedded in each and every charging device, only in computers. The iPod can remember the last computer it was plugged into (because, you know, it has flash or a hard disk), and will work with 3rd-party chargers provided the last computer was valid.

In other words, the thieves can listen to YOUR playlists all they want, recharging with a car or AC adapter. When they plug it into a computer, it will stop charging, and not start again with any charger until factory reset or plugged into the original computer.

At least, that is how I envision it working...

Hmmm

[webheaded]

The only thing that would make this not completely retarded would be if the feature was in fact optional. If it's something you can turn off, then good. If it's something they force on you...that is quite possibly the worst idea I've heard of for a portable music player.

Name the new technology

[roman_mir]

Apple has patented a technology for new generations of iPods that would detect when a user tries to operate the iPod on an unauthorised machine ... and will refuse to charge. Indefinitely. - do they name the new tech iBrick?

So if I buy a new computer I can't use my Ipod?

[zussal]

So if I buy a new computer I can't use my Ipod? This doesn't make sense to me either.

Re:So if I buy a new computer I can't use my Ipod?

[Anonymous Coward]

So if I buy a new computer I can't use my Ipod? This doesn't make sense to me either.

Try authorizing your iPod on the new machine using your iTunes username and password.

Neo1973

[greenarrow7]

Slightly off topic, but once the new linux smartphone Neo1973 is available (and has python), i thought a nice security feature would be to upload an encrypted gps coordinate every hour or so, therefore if your phone gets lost or stolen, chances are it wont have been switched off before it gets back to someone's house. This is why python + mobile phones can only be a good idea :) I'm not sure if this is going to go in as a reply to another topics or not, i could not find out how to make a fresh thread (first post)

Re:Neo1973

[Xanius]

Extremely off topic but that would be an excellent feature to have on it.

Re:Neo1973

[falconwolf]

once the new linux smartphone Neo1973 is available (and has python), i thought a nice security feature would be to upload an encrypted gps coordinate every hour or so, therefore if your phone gets lost or stolen

How would the phone know when it's been stolen? Or are you going to have it upload your coordinates all the tyme? Forget that, I don't want anyone tracking me.

Falcon

Re:Neo1973

[Anonymous Coward]

Well to track you they'd have to crack the encryption. I would use the name of whatever street I was on to encrypt my coordinates so they would have to know where I'd been to know where I'd been. Clever, no?

Re:Neo1973

[greenarrow7]

Uploading all the time, but with a very high bit gpg encryption

what if you stuck a delay on it?

[booyagrandma]

like, dont brick it immediately upon connecting to a foreign machine, but rather start a week or so countdown. it'll still charge during the countdown, and of course once you reconnect it to your authorized machine everything reset and good to go.

i dont actually like the idea (i'm rather agaisnt it), i'm just thinking about implementations that would not screw over the user and yet also still have value. what do people think?

Maybe...

[jgoemat]

If they attempt to connect the iPod to a computer it isn't paired with, the circuit can activate and prevent charging by any means at any later date.

Change of Tactic

[Ginger_Chris]

I guess I'll have to start stealing the owners computer as well as their ipod.

My RAZR already does this...

[smose]

...then again, maybe putting it in the clothes washer had something do do with that.

Re:My RAZR already does this...

[treeves]

I dropped my Zen Microphoto in the toilet but quickly fished it out (won't go into details, but I'll say it was pretty clean water). I quickly flung it around to get most of the water out and it worked at first then quit working altogether. I let it dry out throughly, aided by blowing some dry air in it, recharged the totally dead battery and about a day later it was working fine again.

This is a totally stupid idea.

[JustNiz]

What if you were travelling on buisness and wanted to recharge your personal ipod but your own PC was at home? Now you couldn't plug your Ipod into your work-supplied laptop without turning into a brick.

USB

[akkarin]

What if you used their own USB charger/Wall Adapter converter? What then?

Why just brick it?

[AusIV]

When I first got my iPod, I thought this would be a pretty good theft deterrent for iPods.

Background:
iPods are linked to specific iTunes Music Libraries. If you want to move it to a different computer, you have to wipe it clean and link it to the library on the new computer.

I thought, hey, why not take it one step further. If you're already linking your iPod to a specific music library, why not have iTunes register the iPod's serial number with Apple. Then, if your iPod gets stolen, you can use iTunes on the same computer (or jump through some extra hoops if you no longer have said computer) to report it stolen to Apple. Then, if anyone tries to link the iPod to their iTunes Music Libary, Apple can find out who (or at least an IP address) is in possession of the stolen iPod.

Granted, now I use Amarok to manage my iPod, so there are plenty of ways around it, but I imagine a few thieves could get busted this way.

Verizon already does this with their phones.

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't believe me? Go try to use a non-Verizon charger with your Verizon phone. You'll get an "Unauthorized Charger" message and it won't charge. I found this out on accident when I tried to use my Cingular phone charger to charge my Razor work phone, which is through Verizon. The funny thing is that it does work the other way around; I can use the Verizon charger on my Cingular phone.

great!

[oohshiny]

Yet another way for Apple to screw their customers on overpriced batteries and service.

It's not the charger dummy, it's the $system

[tremaine.lea]

So when my laptop gets stolen, my iPod gets bricked to reward me? Sweet. I can be without my data AND my music! Thanks Mr Jobs!

To Catch a Thief

[Wingsy]

To catch an iPod or iPhone thief (and thereby prevent many thefts, if this is made well known), I think Apple should do this: Modify iTunes so that it sends to Apple the s/n of any connected iPod or iPhone. If stolen, the victim sends Apple a copy of the police report. Apple then puts that s/n on its watch list, and the next time the stolen iWhatever announces itself, Apple sends the IP# of the machine it is connected to to the police dept where the report was made. It may cost Apple an employee or two to handle this but the PR it would generate I think would be worth it. It may even recover the iPod that was snatched from the resident teen here.

Why are so many people getting this wrong?

[astrosmash]

If the device detects that it has been stolen, through any number of means such as plugging in to an unauthorized computer or by geographic location, the device disables its charging circuit so that it can't be charged from any changer.

It has nothing to do with the iPod only working with specific, Apple-branded, chargers. That would be stupid.

Foolproof and uncircumventable

[noiseusse]

"Now where did I put that soldering iron...?"

stolen ipods or stolen music?

[master5o1]

I saw this more as a way against someone like me going around to my cousin's house and plugging my ipod in and using the add-manually setting to add her music to my ipod. With this tech my ipod would be rendered useless after the charge dies. So is it about the stolen ipod that was ripped out of your pocket or is it about the stolen music from your friends library?

I've had a similar Idea...

[JimXugle]

If one could reasonably assert that those who would steal an iPod as opposed to buying one would be running windows, you could have an autorun file on the mass storage device that will check to see if it's your machine that it's connected to. If not, it will begin encrypting almost every important filetype that a user may have, followed by a prompt to the effect of "This is a stolen iPod. You have my iPod, I have all your files. If you ever want to see your data decrypted, I'll trade you the password for the safe return of my iPod. You may reach me at user@domain.com".

Although I don't know of the legality of such an action...

DRM'ed Hardware

[nurb432]

So will we have to pay an extra fee to use it on *gasp* more then one of our computers? What if we burn up a charger, or want a 2nd at the office? More licensing fees?

Almost makes me want to chuck both my mac and ipod(s) out the window.

Bad idea, bad idea. Almost as bad as dropping the newton, or moving to Intel CPU's.

Agreed... this is to control it more!

[CrisRuv]

I've seen some of the comments specifying that this is to allow Apple to charge more for additional chargers in the case one were lost... but I say, that's not the only case! This is also another form for DRM, when connecting the iPod to another "unauthorized system" it seems that it will lock it down. Who's to say the user wasn't just trying to use the external HDD feature of the iPod? Also, I personally have various systems. More than 5, does this mean that I am limiting myself to only using certain of my computers with my own iPod? Sync'ing the iPod limits the use with certain computers because you only can update it through whatever library you had on your system. Manually managing music would get passed this, but this would still limit the functionality... how will the iPod be able to determine which systems are considered to be "authorized"? Would it mean that only one iPod can be used on a given machine? What does this mean for owners of multiple iPods? This is a bad idea and should not be implemented... and if it does: DON'T UPGRADE YOUR FIRMWARE!

Hardware DRM

[asm2750]

Its like DRM, on a total hardware basis, shame on Apple.

Encryption is a better solution

[gelfling]

Thats all I have

counter-productive

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad Idea. Thief opens ipod, connect to li-on/lipo charger. Annoys real customers.

Re:So what?

[arminw]

.....and without needing to use itunes......

If you don't need or want itunes, why get an ipod? It's the two together that "just work" and are made for each other. There is no other combination on the market that works as well.

I sense a great disturbance in the force . . .

[Anonymous Poodle]

As if millions of iPods cried out for recharging, and were suddenly silenced.

The REAL headline should read...

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Gives iPod OWNERS an Unchargeable Brick.

This is just another glaring example of the 'defective by design' strategy. Hardware manufacturers and software companies adding unwanted 'features' to make their products work only in the manner in which THEY specify.

I'll charge my iPod any way I see fit. And don't try to tell me that using a tesla coil voids the warranty!! Bastards!!

Apple locking-in ipod users to iTunes

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple is setting even more locks for ipods, you will now need itunes to charge the ipod (else it would possibly explode).

I guess the next stop would be making sure the ipod is only mounted from Vista or Mac OS/X Leopard

Re:It's already been done and legally challenged..

[gnasher719]

' I think Apple might run into some anti-competitive issues with this one. Recall that the ink-jet printer industry got into big trouble with the 3rd party (read 'clone') cartridges not working because they needed to be specially chipped. They attempted to sue some suppliers that copied some of the ID codes, but were denied. Since people will want other ways to charge their devices besides an Apple made charger, I think this mode of bricking would be hard to enforce. '

No problem. Using another charger doesn't brick it. Connecting it to a different iTunes, and not being able to have a code needed to authorise that copy of iTunes, will brick it one week later. You can authorise as many computers as you like, and plugging it into any authorised computer unbricks it.

Re:So what?

[Ajehals]

What I was trying to say was that the unlocking procedure should be possible without any remote authentication with apple (via itunes or similar) rather than any attack on itunes itself (I have never used it).

By the way - if you are an itunes user you win a prize - I have two free unclaimed songs available from itunes (coke promotion) that I cant touch - since you must be an apple fan and I assume you have access to itunes, if you email me (stick your uid in the subject or something) I will mail you the account details I signed up to the coke website with, and you can grab the freebies.

Re:possible solutions

[SanityInAnarchy]

So here's the question I have: Malice or incompetence?

Did Apple not do a system like you describe because they want to exert more control? (You have to buy a new iPod if you lose your computer... You can't re-sell it or give it away as a gift... You have to buy a charger from Apple, nobody else...)

Or did Apple simply not think of it? Or reject it out of hand as being too hard? (Or even too insecure -- any computer you plug it into and enter the charging password is a place someone can now steal your iPod from.)

Are you sure that it doesn't charge?

[Anonymous Coward]

My Motorola V323 (also from Verizon) complains about an "Unauthorized Charger", but it charges anyway.

Prior art broke my car radio

[AmazingRuss]

I have one of those Mazda theft deterrent radios from the early 90's. At some point, it decided somebody had stolen it, and ceased working. There are fixes, but why should I have to break in to my own damn radio? A radio thief probably isn't going to know about the deterrent feature until after he steals my radio, so deterrence is useless.

It should be called a 'Purchase Deterrent Radio'. Had I known about its evil nature, it probably would have soured me on the car purchase.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[sumdumass]

It only takes one or two people stealing them in the area before everyone would know they are useless. It isn't like thieves are total dufusses walking around because they cannot find any work at their lack of skill level. They end up having to sell the stuff to people. They know what sells, what works and what to avoid.

You Radio quit because people decided it wasn't worth the hassle to steal it from you. The kids know this, the professional thieves know this, most everyone knows this.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[toddestan]

More likely the radio quit so a line could be added to a bullet list of features for the car. Talking to police officers in my area, they have never, ever had a report of a car being broken into for a factory stereo. Even for fancy high end units found in new cars. Thieves only bother with aftermarket stuff because it has a much wider market and is much easier to fence than some radio that only fits in a couple of models of car.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[sumdumass]

During the 80's and 90's some stock radios were sounding better and had more power output then some of the cheaper after market ones that were supposed to be good. They were a hit with high school kids, repair shops and so on.

That's also about the time they started linking the chips in th face plates of the removable faceplate radios so that it would lock if you put another one on it. I suggest the cops you were talking to are young or you happen to live in a special area. It wa always annoying to find your car broke into for a couple of CDs and have your dash destroy because they wanted the stock radio too.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[AmazingRuss]

How did my radio know that it wasn't worth the hassle to steal, and what was it about this knowledge that caused to quit?

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[sumdumass]

Are you serious? When did I say your radio quite working because it wasn't worth stealing? Well I guess I made a comment that I could have drawn a picture instead. I didn't think it was necessary though. I assumed you knew Mazda theft deterrent radios was what we were talking about because you brought it up.

What I said was that anti-theft stuff put into the radio is why it quit working. It is there to make it not worth stealing.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[AmazingRuss]

What you said was:

"You Radio quit because people decided it wasn't worth the hassle to steal it from you. "

Which made no sense at all...I thought you were being funny, and responded in that direction.

Apparently you just don't write very well. My apologies.

Re:Prior art broke my car radio

[sumdumass]

Ehh. I guess I did jumble that all up. I dunno why it happens. And yes, I don't write that well. I guess it was my fault.

My apologies too.

Already done.

[SanityInAnarchy]

Specifically, things like bricking a device because a subscription has run out, or disabling it because DRM rights have been violated.

I believe both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have a method called "blacklisting".

Basically, each device has a key, probably specific to its model number or something similar. If someone finds a way of using that device to circumvent the DRM (and rip movies), that device key can be listed on new discs as "blacklisted". As soon as you pop the new disc in the player, it goes "Oh fuck, I'm blacklisted" and bricks itself.

Now, realistically, I think they're expecting that they can solve this kind of thing without bricking the whole device -- for example, I believe WinDVD (or was it PowerDVD? whatever) was cracked, so new discs blacklisted it, and it would then refuse to do anything until you downloaded a new version which defeated the crack.

But the fact that the capability is even there is just disgusting to me, and is the reason why I refuse to buy anything HD until we have the equivalent of DeCSS -- until I can pop any disc into my computer again, and expect it to rip and play on Linux with no hassle.

Zen already do this?

[ACMENEWSLLC]

I have a Creative Zen. It will not charge from any of the 4 USB chargers I have. These chargers all charge any of my other USB devices such as an IPOD, cell phone, bluetooth devices, etc.

I wonder if the reason I have to use the $30 Zen charger, or the included USB cable, is because they have this technology built into their chargers.

This smells as an entry towards DRM'ed chargers.

Re:Zen already do this?

[Macthorpe]

No, it's because you have to have the drivers installed to charge. I've just tested my own Creative Zen (Vision:M, so YMMV) and it charges fine on my home computer with a different cable.

Re:Zen already do this?

[ACMENEWSLLC]

So my home computer is a laptop that turns off power to the USB after idle for so long. Charging from my laptop's not working well. Why can't I charge the Zen from my AC adapters? I have like 4 of them. All my other devices work. Why not the Zen?

110V charger ?

[dindi]

I personally own one of those "on the road" chargers. 1 end 110v, other end USB. I wonder how that would be authenticated by any ipod, as it has no software, just 5V on the USB port.

I think the idea is good though, although I really do not want to start itunes, active sync, nokia pc suite every sindle times I want to charge a stuoid device.

So what happens when you put a user account on it?

[r_jensen11]

I thought I remember reading about people putting their user accounts on ipods so that whenever they bump from one computer to the next (I'm thinking Macs here,) all their files are right there with them instead of on some distant server or on the actual computer. Wouldn't this end up breaking this feature? Suddenly, the 80GB ipod is looking less useful.

external chargers

[falconwolf]

But they no longer ship the wall charger that they once did with iPods

Apple does sale a USB Power Adapter to charge an iPod when it's not connected to a computer though as an accessory. Directly from the Apple website:

"Charge your iPod when it's not connected to a computer with this USB adapter and the included Dock Connector to USB cable."

Falcon

Re:external chargers

[toddestan]

Funny, I tried clicking on the "Buy Now" button, and got this message:

"Sorry

The item you have selected is currently not available from the Apple Store.

Please note that Apple cannot guarantee availability of any product."

Looks like they no longer sell them.

Re:external chargers

[falconwolf]

Funny, I tried clicking on the "Buy Now" button, and got this message:

"Sorry

The item you have selected is currently not available from the Apple Store."

Ah, you caught me, I didn't click on the link. Perhaps I made a fool of myself but if Apple shows an accessory for an iPod on the iPod homepage I'd think they sold it, or had a link to where it could be bought. If they are no longer selling it they need to change the page.

Falcon

Powered USB Hub == iPod Charger

[billstewart]

I've had flaky behaviour from iPods depending on which of my Windows machines they're plugged into (work laptop, home desktop, etc.) and whether iTunes is running - sometimes they don't seem to charge. I was considering whether to pay Apple's prices for a charger, but decided to buy a powered USB hub instead, since I needed a USB2 hub anyway - AFAICT it charges the iPod ok if it's *not* plugged into the PC.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT

[localroger]

My playlist is copyrighted. The RIAA will be calling on you.

storing photos

[falconwolf]

I have 5 iPods because they are the best way to store photographs when on a long assignment where stable electrical current is a forlorn hope. A couple of them are old, but an 80GB iPod offers the best combination of battery life, size, weight, and storage space there is.

I really don't know how big they are but I wouldn't think an iPod could hold as many photos as an external hdd. I only shoot film now but I'd like to get a Canon DSLR, preferably the 16.7 MP EOS-1Ds Mark II however it's out of my price range so I've been looking at the 12.8 MP EOS-5D. Whatever I get I want a fullframe sensor as well as to be able to use the lenses I already have for my 35mm.

Falcon

Re:storing photos

[smart.id]

How big is the LCD screen on your external HDD?

Re:storing photos

[Achromatic1978]

You do realize you don't need a full frame to use your lenses, right?

Re:storing photos

[that this is not und]

Why would I want an LCD screen on my external HDD??

If I had five external HDDs, why would I want an LCD on each of them?

How long...

[AndyCR]

...before this extends to making your ipod inoperable if unbought music is found on it?

This could be fun...

[Hammer of Bread]

Like a game show! "There are five identical beige boxes under this desk attacked to a KVM. Hope you remember where you plugged it in last."

authorized computers?

[falconwolf]

If the device detects that it has been stolen, through any number of means such as plugging in to an unauthorized computer or by geographic location, the device disables its charging circuit so that it can't be charged from any changer.

iPods only work with authorized computers? If so then I definitely don't want one. However a previous poster said s/he uses and collects his or her iPod with a number of computers, even his/her Sun at work. What is this authorized geographic local? Like no one travels, NOT! Another poster said s/he has 5 iPods used to store photos, a lot of photographers travel. I'd like to get a dslr camera and was thinking of getting an external hdd to store the photos I shoot, however now I may check to see if iPods will work instead. However if I can't use one when and how I want I won't get one.

Falcon

There are DRM free competitors

[p.gogarty]

Yet another reason why I'll be sticking with Archos

How big is the LCD screen on your external HDD?

[falconwolf]

I don't have one.

Falcon

Re:How big is the LCD screen on your external HDD?

[smart.id]

The point I was trying to make, my friend, is that although an external HDD could hold more pictures, using an iPod allows one to view the pictures as well, and that would be the storage capacity tradeoff.

Re:How big is the LCD screen on your external HDD?

[falconwolf]

The point I was trying to make, my friend, is that although an external HDD could hold more pictures, using an iPod allows one to view the pictures as well, and that would be the storage capacity tradeoff.

Though it might be alright for some, I don't like the trade off of being able to view photos on an external device over the storage capacity of an external hdd. Maybe I didn't make it clear earlier but the reason I want an external hdd is for backup. I can use one to make a backup then store it offsite. I could also take one with me when I go out into the field and take photos when I don't bring my laptop. And I can burn through a lot of film, I've gone through 3 or 4 rolls of 36 exposure film in a day. Shooting digital I'd shoot a lot more as I wouldn't need to think of running out and getting more film, and it's easy enough to delete photos that aren't good, which I don't like doing. Shooting medium format, like a 645 which I hope to get rsn, requires a lot more digital storage.

Falcon

My iPod already has this feature.

[aywwts4]

The circuit is already there, I tripped it a while ago, I was left with a very nice brick...

You do realize you don't need a full frame to use

[falconwolf]

your lenses, right?

I know, however I don't want any multiplication factor and have the photos cropped, I want to capture all of what I see through the lens. The only way I can avoid these issues and still use the lenses I already have to use a camera with a fullframe sensor.

Falcon

controlling what owners do

[falconwolf]

I could see not letting iTunes do anything with it on an unauthorized computer, but charging?

BS! If I want to I should be able to collect any iPod I own to any computer I want, or allow someone else to connect their iPod to a computer I own!

Falcon

recharging iPods

[falconwolf]

In other words, the thieves can listen to YOUR playlists all they want, recharging with a car or AC adapter. When they plug it into a computer, it will stop charging, and not start again with any charger until factory reset or plugged into the original computer.

BS!!! I should be able to connect, and charge, an iPod to any computer.

Falcon

iPod been stolen?

[Meccanica]

Well, worry not. You may have lost $250 in electronics, but at least you know the thief won't be able to use it either. Just imagine the bumbling bandito's frustration when he discovers he has a useless lump that merely looks like a functional iPod, and wear a smug grin of satisfaction as he sells it to some chump over the internet for $200.

Ha! You really showed him. I'm willing to bet that soon, with more and more advanced technology, crime will be completely impossible!

Re:You do realize you don't need a full frame to u

[ColdWetDog]

I don't want any multiplication factor and have the photos cropped, I want to capture all of what I see through the lens

You realize of course, that using a "less than full frame (35 mm for this discussion)" sensor has absolutely nothing to do with what you see in the viewfinder. Your lenses will have a different effective focal length, slightly shorter than the "original" focal length. But you will still "capture all of what I see through the lens" (minus the conversion factor for the viewfinder coverage to be pedantic).

Your are not really "cropping" the image. You are just changing the focal length. Perhaps what you meant to say is that you want the lenses to act like they always have on your film lens?

Now now...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I only could make the thief test it before stealing it so he sees he can't use it...

Re:You do realize you don't need a full frame to u

[shmlco]

"I know, however I don't want any multiplication factor and have the photos cropped, I want to capture all of what I see through the lens."

Non sequitur. You will capture all of what you "see" through the lens, as the viewfinder only shows what's actually going to be recorded. It's not going to arbitrarily whack off the edges of your frame.

Secondarily, there is an advantage to the multiplication factor, as if you use, say, the 70-200/f2.8 IS on a APS-framed camera you're now shooting with a 320mm f2.8 STABILIZED zoom lens that's, what, five pounds lighter and eight inches shorter than the 300mm f2.8 IS FF version. Not to mention about $2,000 cheaper.

You might need to get a 12-24mm or 16-35mm for wide angles, but you might consider ALL of the advantages and disadvantages before assuming that only a FF camera will give you what you need.

Real purpose?

[twistah]

Can the real purpose be to stop piracy, i.e copying files off computers that are not yours, or can you authorize it before plugging it in?

Dr. Who Nerd Alert

[rpbird]

You were warned. On at least one occasion, somebody swiped The Doctor's sonic screwdriver and couldn't get it to work. When asked, the good doctor called his screwdriver "an isomorphic device." It could only be used by The Doctor. Whether or not this is an abuse of the word "isomorphic," I don't know. What relevance this has to the current discussion, I don't know. Another existing "isomorphic device": a handgun mod that allows only someone wearing a specific ring to use it. I think the ring contains an RFID chip. Then there are all those cute biometric devices, including that nifty fingerprint scanner in a laptop. You know the one, the Mythbusters defeated it in a show last season.

The nerd has left the building.

Great. The best thing is...

[walter_f]

... that this certainly will work to Apple's advantage most of the time.

Now and then, it might be used by Apple even in the end user's interest. ;-)

At $499 or 599$ one-time down _plus_ a mandatory two year contract with AT&T, there will be no iPhone owners out there, just a bunch of iPhone payers-for.

"Caveat emptor", again and again.

Re:Great. The best thing is...

[walter_f]

Hmmm... sorry...

this article is referring to iPod, not iPhone...

But still with the same interesting possibilities for the party that is in control of this "brick it now" technology.

Re:possible solutions

[Lex-Man82]

In England when you mobile phone gets stolen you can go to your phone company get some ID number and then tell the police who get the phone locked on all mobile networks (although more often than not your phone ends up in Nigeria where the lock won't work but anyway). If they did something like that where the user had to register his iPod stolen with Apple maybe through iTunes to have it stop working they wouldn't have so may problems with false positives on there system.

Travel charger

[Anonymous Coward]

So, what should you do with that? Can't use that anymore?

Already being done...

[BillX]

The new (or not even so new) wave in portable gadget batteries and charging circuitry is the battery-authentication IC. Companies like Microchip, TI and Dallas/Maxim offer these for around $1 in quantity, with levels of nastiness all the way up to SHA-1 encryption between the battery pack and the charger. Of course, the companies behind them claim they're necessary to protect the consumer from counterfeit or underspec'ed aftermarket battery packs.

http://www.edn.com/article/CA6301616.html

Yes folks, slapping in a replacement battery pack for some discontinued gadget can now be a DMCA violation. I wouldn't be surprised to see other manufacturers following Apple's "lead" by using the existing chips to tie a specific battery and charger together, rather than just a specific model of battery as they currently do. At any rate, it just means more inconvenience, frustration and expense for end-users, and more ability for manufacturers to get away with anticompetitive practices while claiming all the while they are in the consumer's best interest.

Re:You do realize you don't need a full frame

[falconwolf]

Secondarily, there is an advantage to the multiplication factor, as if you use, say, the 70-200/f2.8 IS on a APS-framed camera you're now shooting with a 320mm f2.8 STABILIZED zoom lens that's, what, five pounds lighter and eight inches shorter than the 300mm f2.8 IS FF version. Not to mention about $2,000 cheaper.

Not if you're using macro or other wide angle lenses. Neither is it lighter when you're carrying both camera film and digital bodies as well as the lenses for each, though I want to get a dslr I'll still continue to use my film slr. Though it's been a long tyme since I have I love working in darkrooms and hope to set one up where I live. In other words I want to work with both digital and film photography. Actually besides getting a dslr I first want to get a medium format camera, say a 645, with a film back. Eventually I'd like to get a digital back for it as well. Within the next few weeks I plan on joining a photographers association, IFP Minneasota. In doing so, I'll take some classes they have, such as using a medium format camera and working with digital cameras and Photoshop. I'll also look to see if I can work as an assistant for a pro photographer to get a start in working as a photographer. See, I'm on disability and haven't worked in years, however I think I can work in photography. I first took a class in photography in high school. And the last tyme I was in college I took photography then as well. Because of an accident that resulted in my disability while attending college where I was majoring in Computer Engineering I basically had to start all over again. So when I started college again I was majoring in programming, which I struggled with due to my memory being damaged.

Falcon

That's not the point.

[woolio]

I think Apple is trying to lock people into using the ipod with only one computer. After all, you don't OWN the songs, so why should you be pulling it into different computers on your own free will?

Unwanted Feature

[stewbacca]

This one is easy. I don't want Apple to spend a dime on R&D for a feature I won't ever want. iPods are cheap enough that most people can afford to replace a stolen/broken/mishandled/lost/washed iPod or two, but not if Apple starts sinking a bunch of useless features like this one into the overall cost of an iPod.

RM To iPod Converter

[jorrsbm]

RM To iPod Converter is easy-to-use video converter software for converting RM/RMVB video to Apple iPod Movie and iPod Video format. www.rm-converter.net/rm_to_ipod