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BioShock Installs a Rootkit

An anonymous reader writes "Sony (the owner of SecureROM copy protection) is still up to its old tricks. One would think that they would have learned their lesson after the music CD DRM fiasco, which cost them millions. However, they have now started infesting PC gaming with their invasive DRM. Facts have surfaced that show that the recently released PC game BioShock installs a rootkit, which embeds itself into Explorer, as part of its SecureROM copy-protection scheme. Not only that, but just installing the demo infects your system with the rootkit. This begs the question: Since when did demos need copy protection?"

103 of 529 comments (clear)

  1. Oh great by yamamushi · · Score: 2

    Here we go again. *sigh*

    --
    - Aetheral Research -
    1. Re:Oh great by click2005 · · Score: 4, Informative

      From the author's comments...

      I don't care if it is one or not. My point of this article is that the SecuROM service doesn't need to be included in the demo if we don't have to activate it.

      Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google.

      --
      I am a free slashdotter. I will not be modded, blogged, DRM'd, patented, podcasted or RFID'd. My life is my own.
    2. Re:Oh great by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not sure of the specifics of how these rootkits work, but if every piece of software we buy starts installing a rootkit, What is the probably they will conflict with each other and make the system less stable, and/or break the system completely? What kind of support or compensation is available once this starts happening. I find it very disturbing that they will install rootkits, or use non-standard CDs that don't work in a lot of CD drives (which used to happen a lot), making a terrible experience for the end users, while the pirates just modify the machine code, so it doesn't do any checks, and use the software without paying.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Oh great by sanosuke76 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ok, reading the early comments on this article made me laugh my rear off with how quickly the anti-Sony-fanboys jump to conclusions.

      You guys do realize that Bioshock is NOT a Sony game, right? It's been stated that it won't appear on the PS3 (some .ini files have made folks question this, however the publisher officially denies it... no telling what the reality is, but it's at the bare minimum a timed exclusive for the PC and X360).

      If it's not a Sony game, and it's not even going to be AVAILABLE for the PS3, then who do you think decided to use a rootkit-ish (even if it's not a rootkit) technology? Hint: it wouldn't have been Sony.

      If Sony came up with the technology, and then the other guys decided to license it and use it, does this mean Sony had much to do with it? Nope.

      I am still laughing at how easily the anti-Sony-fanboy types disengage their brains when reading articles, on totally non-Sony, not-even-Sony-friendly titles. At the very most, if Sony's the one that the technology was licensed from, one could complain that Sony is still providing it. But the folks who decided to USE it, i.e. the Bioshock publishers, are the folks you ought to be mad at.

      --
      My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/
    4. Re:Oh great by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, consumer.

      You'll buy what we fucking TELL you to buy. If it crashes your system, then your system requires more RAM.

      It's situation fucking normal for a game.

      If you don't like it, then millions of idiots will just buy it and install it on their parents' computer anyway. After all, kids are the only ones who play games.

      (Not previewing after 5 on a Friday.)

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    5. Re:Oh great by Short+Circuit · · Score: 4, Funny

      Here we go again. *sigh* What, Sony and their rootkits, or the "Begs the question" abuse that seems to get on everyone's nerves?
    6. Re:Oh great by Schemat1c · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you don't like it, then millions of idiots will just buy it and install it on their parents' computer anyway. After all, kids are the only ones who play games.

      I play games and i'm almost 27. so do all my friends, and many other people i know.

      games aren't just for kids. The fact games are a multi billion dollar industry shows this clearly.

      no one can make me part with my money if i don't want to. get a clue. Whoosh!
      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    7. Re:Oh great by sanosuke76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you read many gaming sites, you'll see that the Wii/360 fanboys tend to bash anything Sony, whether it's PS3 related or not. Joystiq is particularly well infested with 'em.

      That's not to say that Sony doesn't have fanboys, but that Sony has a lot of anti-fanboys amongst the Wii and 360 folks. I personally am an admitted MS anti-fanboy, although it has to do with grudges dating back to Windows 3.1 vs the Amiga, and hasn't been added to much by the X360. :)

      Personally, I do prefer the PS3, but don't object to folks preferring the 360 or even bashing the PS3's legitimate issues (i.e. overpricing, etc). I simply take annoyance with folks who bash the PS3 simply because they're anti-Sony in general (you'll find that a lot on Joystiq).

      --
      My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/
    8. Re:Oh great by Andrzej+Sawicki · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm saying it's the publisher's fault.
      And right you are. There were rumors that Take 2 was considering using StarForce in Civ4. After a public outcry in the fan forums, they didn't (people were openly saying they would just not buy Civ with StarForce, and I mean hardcore fans). Since Bioshock didn't have a large fan base before release, guess what happened...
    9. Re:Oh great by arkhan_jg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The frustrating thing is, this rootkit worry isn't the biggest problem (it's a bit of a stretch). It's that when the game shipped, you only got 2 activations. Yes, you could only install it twice. Ever. Using another user account or install of windows requires another activation. Wipe windows, and try to install a third time? Activation denied. They then proceeded to flat out lie and say uninstalling the game from windows before formatting would give you an activation 'credit' back. It didn't, and according to SecuROM never could.

      The outrage over this on the 2K forums made them raise the limit to 5 installs on a given copy of windows, and up to 5 installs on different machines. Ever. Problem solved, right? I mean, who ever installs software they buy more than 5 times, right? Must be pirates. They want to carry on playing in a couple of years, they can go buy a new copy.

      Oh, and they'll release a utility at some point in the future that when run, will supposedly uninstall the game and 'deregister' your install with the online securom database, thus giving you the privilege of reinstalling your own game on your own computer one more time. Just hope windows doesn't go belly up before you get to unregister. And I can't wait for the day all games do this, and I have to run round manually deregistering all of them prior to a reinstall with different tools. Then calling support when it doesn't work and won't let me reinstall.

      --
      Remember kids, it's all fun and games until someone commits wholesale galactic genocide.
    10. Re:Oh great by heinousjay · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Seems reasonable, really. Otherwise people who feel all entitled will start distributing the game on their own. All 2k wants to do is slow that down long enough to make a few bucks. I support them in this endeavor, although I realize I'm nearly alone on this site in believing people should be paid for making software.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    11. Re:Oh great by BorgDrone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      although I realize I'm nearly alone on this site in believing people should be paid for making software.

      I agree that programmers should be paid for making software, just like musicians should be paid for making music.

      But only for making the software/music, not for the copies. So if an artist/programmer spends 100 hours making a song or programming an application, he/she should get paid for the 100 hours they spent, according to their hourly rate. Why do people think it's fair to get paid for work they actually haven't done ?

      If you have a plumber install a toilet in your house, you don't have to pay a license fee for every person who wants to take a shit on it, you just pay him for the amount of time he's spent installing it. I don't see how music or software is any different.
    12. Re:Oh great by mariushm · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Securom protection in the executable of the DEMO is needed because the game makers were probably too lazy to compile a different version of the executable for the DEMO, with less functions.

      Some crackers would take the executables from a DEMO and the content from a game CD and thus would have nothing to crack.

      While the protection is anyway removed in less than a week from the game it is released, it is often pushed by the people in distribution chain and by people that finance the development of the game.

      It's just too slow down the piracy of the game in the few days the game is released in retail stores, when the hype is at the maximum.

      Combined with the online activation I believe it has, it's good enough.

    13. Re:Oh great by TrancePhreak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If a plumber installs a toilet, you get one toilet. If you buy a copy of Bioshock, you get one copy of Bioshock. Only one person can use the toilet at a time, much the same with the copy of Bioshock.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    14. Re:Oh great by shadowkin · · Score: 4, Informative

      Try again.

      The plumber installs one toilet. The bathroom is now only authorized for use by one person. If anyone other than that one person asks to use the bathroom, it requires reauthorization. If your toilet ever leaks, you can only repair it once, unless you've de-authorized the toilet before the leak started. Otherwise, you're required to purchase a new toilet before using it in that bathroom again.

      If you move, the next person to use your house has to pay for authorization to use that toilet.

      In the end, it all winds up a steaming pile of crap in one way or another.

    15. Re:Oh great by InvalidError · · Score: 2, Insightful

      BioShock's SecuROM server is down = you cannot re-install and use the copy you bought.
      Re-install Windows because of HD crash or OS corruption = your BioShock's SecuROM install count goes up and you eventually lose the ability to install.
      WGA servers are down = Vista downgrades to non-genuine mode should you be unlucky enough that it phoned home during an outage.
      The company goes out of business = you're fu**ed.

      Fair compensation for work is... fair. But the restrictions they impose on legit customers and the risk of legit customers being hung out to dry should the company go bankrupt or experience technical difficulties is unacceptable.

  2. Yet another game by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I won't be buying. I was looking forward to this one, too.

    1. Re:Yet another game by sodul · · Score: 5, Informative

      So does that mean I'll have to get the cracked version from BittTorrent in order to NOT infect my machine ?

      It is very sad that the underground world is nicer than the official one. It's Demolition Man all over again.

    2. Re:Yet another game by arth1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was about to buy it through Steam. I only waited because I had next to no disk space left on the partition that the Steam games are on, and Steam is too brain dead to let you use more than one partition. I was going to delete some other game and then download Steam, but now I think I'll wait. Especially since judging by Steam's web site, even the non-CD downloadable version comes with Securom (why??).

    3. Re:Yet another game by stg · · Score: 5, Informative

      AFAIK, the Steam version really comes with Securom. I bought and pre-loaded it as a pre-release, and after the regular Steam decryption (and also regular re-downloading of content - EVERY single game I pre-loaded through Steam always had to download more stuff on release!), it needs to activate. The first time I tried it failed (for obvious reasons - the server should be overloaded as it was 2-3 hours after the release), but after that it worked fine.

      BTW, the graphics are very impressive and the atmosphere too, but from the first few levels it seemed good but not all that revolutionary as I kept hearing it was...

      As others mention and the FA clearly says, it's not a rootkit, just a regular service. This is a case where I wouldn't mind someone being sued for libel - they really deserve it.

    4. Re:Yet another game by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The first time I tried it failed (for obvious reasons - the server should be overloaded as it was 2-3 hours after the release), but after that it worked fine.

      Somewhat off-topic, but if this isn't a sign of the times I don't know what is. You shelled out $50-60 of hard-earned money to buy a game immediately after it's released and what's your reward? You sit and wait for hours while the moron publisher's servers get overloaded with "activation" requests. And here in this comment, instead of showing irritation or annoyance, you just accept this as normal (not saying you weren't pissed then of course :)

      Funny, I remember when you would buy a game and could take it home and play it right away. Of course technology has progressed since then - now companies can alienate honest customers while adding a few hours to the time it takes to crack the copy protection. Steam is one of the worst things to happen to computer gaming in a long time.

      If that's not progress, I don't know what is.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    5. Re:Yet another game by moo083 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think your forgetting the time it took to get the game shipped to stores, find a store that has it, and then buy it, and drive home. Thats measured in days, not hours, like steam.

    6. Re:Yet another game by stg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wouldn't be okay with it, except for the detail that 30 seconds after my first attempt on activation I ran it again and it went through fine.

      I was really ready to get angry (I had pre-loaded days before and it had the gall to make me wait another 2 hours since download speeds were awful - but that isn't activation related, AFAIK), but it's hard to make much of an issue of a 30 seconds delay.

      Also, I live in Brazil. Sometimes games would take months, sometimes years and on occasion, they would never be available here in a legal form. Buying from the USA is of course possible, but even then it would something like US$20+80% customs taxes. And sometimes it would be translated (poorly) - argh! Prices are about the same as the US, sometimes a bit higher, sometimes a bit lower.

      So I consider being able to download major releases (instead of just indie games) and play at the same time as anyone else major progress.

      Steam could improve their download client a lot, though. I get 460K/s routinely on Getright with multiple connections, but sub-100K/s is the norm on Steam.

    7. Re:Yet another game by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Me either. And they wonder why people download games, its because they've been stripped of this invasive drm.
      Whoa, slow down there buddy, that's not why people download games. Certainly is a plus though.
    8. Re:Yet another game by Afecks · · Score: 5, Funny

      That settles it, I will never buy this game again.

    9. Re:Yet another game by ludomancer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's ironic to me that you are comfortable using Steam, which opens much of your PC to the Valve network (sharing information about your computer, sends marketting statistics, etc), but don't want secureROM installed on your PC.

      In my opinion, Steam is far worse than any regular DRM, because instead of simply installing software that checks and validates your game, you're allowing a company access via network to your game where they can outright regulate whatever you do with it.

      I never installed Steam for that reason. It freaks me out. I don't want anyone on my machine other than myself, and I don't feel companies have a right to regulation on that level.
      Even though this Bioshock thing turns out not to be a true Rootkit, it's a game I was going to buy, but now that I see they install this additional mess, I will be passing it up.

      I will be happy if a piracy group supplies with me a DRM free version. But I truly LIKE to give my money to teams that deserve it, and I feel the inclusion of secureROM in this game may be robbing a very deserving team of it's sales.

      In the end, if the publisher feels they need to install anything that is not necessary to the game itself, they will not get my money.

    10. Re:Yet another game by spearway · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually yes it is. I have a library of well over 100 games all legaly purchased out of which less than 20% still run on my current hardware mostly becuase of silly DRMs. Yes now I download and I have downloaded games I have purchased that run on currnet systems when my "legal" copy does not.

    11. Re:Yet another game by DAtkins · · Score: 2, Informative

      You should check to see if your credit card company offers limited accounts. All of mine will let me setup a temporary account number with a withdrawal cap applied to it. Get one of those, change your card info, don't forget that you have to update that account's limit if you choose to buy something else.

      Clears that problem right up :)

    12. Re:Yet another game by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually yes it is. I have a library of well over 100 games all legaly purchased out of which less than 20% still run on my current hardware mostly becuase of silly DRMs. Yes now I download and I have downloaded games I have purchased that run on currnet systems when my "legal" copy does not.


      Good for you. Since that's the reason that you do it, and your ethics keep you from ever downloading something that you didn't purchase first that must be how everyone does it, and no one downloads a game as an alternative to paying.
    13. Re:Yet another game by Walpurgiss · · Score: 2, Insightful

      SecuROM behaved this way well before sony acquired it. It also tends to dislike users using daemontools, poweriso, alcohol... anything that allows you to mount cd images in virtual drives, or is able to emulate subchannel data, SecuROM, etc. Lots of games' boxes have a message to that effect: like this software contains copy protection that is incompatible with certain hardware and/or software. Splinter Cell for example. And that's why they invented gamecopyworld, nocd .exes, fixed isos, and the like.

    14. Re:Yet another game by pabrown85 · · Score: 3, Funny

      so I've been downloading games wrong?!

    15. Re:Yet another game by Headcase88 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not to mention that you'll have to download that movie to avoid the inconvenient FBI Warnings / anti-downloading PSAs.

      In the PS1's case (and probably newer consoles), anti-piracy technology made new games not work on chipped consoles. Oh, unless they were burned.

      Maybe these companies should give up on anti-piracy. It seems that most people are decent enough to pay for something that's worth the price of admission. I can't imagine that all of these measures have made enough money from would-be pirates to justify money lost from would-be consumers turned off by DRM, etc. Not to mention the money they had to spend to set up all that shit. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that they'd make more money and have a better brand image from simply chilling out and trying to sell worthy products.

      --
      "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
    16. Re:Yet another game by dr_d_19 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Steam and Valve (and now 2kgames) thrive on the fact that most of their customers are 14 years old and really don't care. They'll spam the forums at every game release saying that "steam SUCKS!!!" when they can't activate their games for two days but then they'll start playing the their usual concentration rush sets in and they will forget about it.

      When BioShock couldn't activate I used TCPView and nmap to figure out why it couldn't activate (because the "failed to contact key server" game instantly). Turns out the port on the IP it was trying to contact wasn't even open. The usual windows services including SMB was tho'.

  3. Demos and protection by arth1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Demos require protection since the day that someone found out that if they hacked the demo and compared it to the original, they could simply replace some parts of the original from the same parts of the demo and have a free-for-all.

    (That doesn't mean that I endorse Sony's approach here -- far from it)

    HTH, HAND

    1. Re:Demos and protection by CryoPenguin · · Score: 5, Informative

      I haven't ever tried to crack copy protection by inserting code from a demo, but I have cracked copy protection without it, and from that experience I don't think having an unprotected demo would help.

      Once you get to the point where you can modify the exe, the hard part of the crack is over. Whatever the protection checks, whether it's some data on the CD or a registry key or some more complex signature of your machine, it's just a branch instruction somewhere and can be NOPed out. Finding the branch is easy too, since you can just run the game with and without whatever it checks for, and see where the execution paths diverge.
      The (marginally) effective part of a copy protection scheme like SecuROM is use of encryption, compression, and self-modifying code, which make it hard to examine or modify the exe. If you have an unprotected demo exe and a protected retail exe, you can't even compare them until after breaking the protection.

      Sure there's the extreme case where the demo and the final version are exactly the same code and differ only in data files, then dropping the whole demo exe into the retail installation would crack it. But as the sibling posters explained, that's rare.

  4. It does not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The author even admits that he's just trying to get search engine traffic in the comments. It uses SecureROM, which regardless of your feelings on it, is mis-detected by Microsoft's Rootkit detection program. He even says in the main article it's not malware.

    1. Re:It does not by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, as you seem to post a picture in favor of the 'it's a rootkit' argument and then a link to their faq that says it's not.

      Regardless I'm a lot less inclined to trust the company over a rootkit detection kit to be frank. I would definitely not put it past them to install a rootkit then try to pass it off as 'just a registry folder and some keys'.

      Boy am I glad I was too lazy to install the demo back when I downloaded it. I really hate these 'Don't mind us, we'll be over here gaining access to every part of your computer while you play the game you bought from us, purely for security' type things. Why should the company get to know anything about my computer without my permission? Even their statement that they generate a unique ID for my computer is far more than I think they should be able to do. Obviously that unique ID relies on some information about the computer. When did we start saying 'eh' to companies taking information about our computers without permission? Doesn't that fall under some right, the right to not have people searching your personal property whenever they want (not the amendment, I know that's government only). It's really absurd that this is even considered a reasonable practice, I wonder how they would react to me wandering in to their building and putting some 'not a rootkit, just a couple of folders in the registry' on their servers since it contains information about my personal property...seems like it would be only fair, you gather info about me/my property without my permission, I get to put trackers on that info, and your hardware by extension, so I can make sure you don't pass it around...

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    2. Re:It does not by NickFortune · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The author even admits that he's just trying to get search engine traffic in the comments.

      At the time of writing, there's only one comment from the author that mentions "search engines". So I assume your are refering to this paragraph:

      I installed RootkitRevealer, and discovered it on my computer after installing the demo. I then found a fix to remove it on the 2K forums. In order for others to learn about this I used the word "rootkit", because it is what would naturally be typed in to search engines.

      Now you may disagree, but that doesn't sound to me as if he means "I'm deliberately sensationalising the issue because I want to pimp my blog on Google". It sounds more like "I'm using the term 'rootkit' so that anyone who is searching for rootkit related stories can find this one", which seems reasonable enough to me. After all, as he pointed out in the previous paragraph, the issue was flagged by the Microsoft Rootkit Revealer, so it's not an entirely unreasonable use of the term.

      He goes on to say:

      The point of the article is to let people know that the SecuROM service was installed with the demo,and I have provided a way to remove it. This is a benefit for anyone who searches for "bioshock rootkit" or "SecuROM rootkit". I am not using it just for "traffic and ad revenue".

      Now, I appreciate that you didn't say that he did use the term to boost "traffic and ad revenue", but I'm guessing that a lot of people will have read it like that. So I thought it worth pointing out that the comment in question explicitly states the opposite.

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
  5. Not QUITE a rootkit by Robotech_Master · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you RTFA, or specifically its comments, you find that it's not technically a rootkit that it installs, it's just a registry directory that contains a * and so a rootkit detector tags it. It's just a very hard to remove registry directory, and not necessarily an actual rootkit qua rootkit.

    --
    Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
    1. Re:Not QUITE a rootkit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is pure FUD. The twat who wrote it even admits it in the comments:

      Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google.
    2. Re:Not QUITE a rootkit by Robotech_Master · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thing is, that if statement is false. As one of the other commenters put it more eloquently than I, the fellow's just claiming it's a "rootkit" to bring in traffic. There's no evidence it demonstrates any rootkitlike behavior, other than being detected by a detector that also detects rootkits.

      --
      Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
    3. Re:Not QUITE a rootkit by MikeBabcock · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Articles like this should have their link removed from the Slashdot summary to punish the author.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
  6. It's not a rootkit... by g051051 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article author seemed to base his conclusion on the fact that the SecureROM software installs a registry key that can't be deleted by normal means. This pops up on the Microsoft Rootkit Revealer (since that's a technique used by rootkits as well.) That's like saying that because rootkits use Windows APIs, any program that uses a Windows API is a rootkit.

    As for why it's in the demo, modern copy protection is embedded throughout games. It's too difficult to remove the protection just for a demo that contains so much of the full game engine.

    1. Re:It's not a rootkit... by g051051 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Windows registry allows creating keys that have nulls in them, but the standard tools (such as RegEdit) don't have a way of entering a "binary" value for the name of a key, and the selection mechanism doesn't propagate the nulls to the delete code when you try to remove it. That's why the article references some special software that allows these to be deleted.

      As far as not being able to delete stuff without going into the registry, that's not strictly true. The registry contains pointers and configuration information, not executable code. The trick to removing something is that in addition to deleting the physical files, you also want to remove the associated registry stuff. That's because if something is running, it may not be possible to kill the process it runs in or delete the code. If something is configured in the registry, it can start at boot time before the user gets control (including in safe mode). So, malware can protect itself from removal by making the registry key impossible to delete under normal circumstances.

  7. Shame on /. for linking to this by BertieBaggio · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Okay, I was getting myself good and riled up over this piece of news. I was even ready to return the game first thing tomorrow despite it being a lot of fun. Then I did the unthinkable - I RTFA.

    Seems this is a big load of nothing. SecureROM installs a service to let those running without admin privileges run the SecureROM stuff. This is kinda bitterweet - yes, SecureROM is bad etc but running as a restricted user is good. This is assuming you trust SecureROM's website which says (from TFA):

    SecuROM(TM) will install a Windows(TM) service module called "User Access Service" (UAService) on your system. This is a standard interface commonly used by several other applications as well. It is no spyware or rootkit at all. This module has been developed to enable users without Windows(TM) administrator rights the ability to access all SecuROM(TM) features. Please be assured that this service is installed only for security and convenience purposes. Since it is a standard Windows(TM) service, you can stop and delete this service, like any other Windows(TM) service. If deleted, the access for non-administrator users to SecuROM(TM) protected applications will be affected. As opposed to TFA which makes it sound something sinister. However, I don't trust GamingBOB due to his own admission:

    Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google. I would add my own emphasis, but I don't think it needs it. Someone finds out a service is installed along with a game and demo and calls it a rootkit to gain traffic / links / ad revenue. Slashdot should not link to crap like this. It would be newsworthy if it were true: I think many people here - myself included - would return the game if it had a true rootkit installed along with it. But this...?

    I don't see the issue here.

    --
    If all you have is a grenade, pretty soon every problem looks like a foxhole -- MightyYar
    1. Re:Shame on /. for linking to this by c0d3g33k · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've been following this matter on the web since the Bioshock release and monitoring Slashdot's Firehose as the story submissions popped in. This particular story submission was one of the worst of the bunch. There are genuine issues with Bioshock's DRM decision to use Securom which will unfortunately be dismissed due to the poor choice of article. Whether or not this is a rootkit, the fact that the game won't run unless a user completely disables or uninstalls legitimate utilities such as antivirus programs or process monitors is enough to make a security conscious user worry.

      References:

      http://consumerist.com/consumer/punishing--the-one s-that-don.t-steal/bioshock-comes-with-nasty-drm-t hat-sets-off-anti+virus-software-ruins-everyones-d ay-292841.php
      http://forum.sysinternals.com/forum_posts.asp?TID= 11000

    2. Re:Shame on /. for linking to this by Mr2001 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you consider this a privilege-escalation bug, then I assume you've already deleted such programs as "passwd", "chfn", and "man" from your Linux system, right? After all, they run setuid root in order to let non-root users do things that normally only root can do (e.g. writing to the man page cache or the password file).

      Just because you don't have access to the SecuROM source code doesn't mean it necessarily contains any exploitable bugs. It just means you can't be sure. It might very well be as safe as passwd and man.

      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    3. Re:Shame on /. for linking to this by Cee · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whether or not this is a rootkit, the fact that the game won't run unless a user completely disables or uninstalls legitimate utilities such as antivirus programs or process monitors is enough to make a security conscious user worry.

      True, I'm surprised no one has really mentioned it here, but my biggest issue is that Bioshock refuses to start if it detects Process Explorer running. And since Process Explorer starts its own device driver (or whatever it is) upon first start which isn't later unloaded, I have to reboot Windows every time I want to play Bioshock.

      That is a showstopper right there for me. I'm never buying any game Securom protected game again. This was the first and last time I did that mistake.
    4. Re:Shame on /. for linking to this by cortana · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, and we've always been at war with Eastasia. The security restrictions we have put in place are temporary measures only. They are necessary for your own safety and protection. They will be relaxed once we have won the war.

  8. Re:raising vs begging the question by darkhitman · · Score: 2, Informative

    Pretty sure its a common slang phrase -- the situation is just 'begging' for a question to be asked - in this case "Since when did demos need copy protection?".

    --
    Tell me something...it's still "We, the people"... right?
  9. Not a real rootkit by jfroot · · Score: 2, Informative

    The author himself has said that he is only calling it a rootkit for SEO reasons.

    From the comments:

    "Using "rootkit" brings the traffic. It's all about the SEO, and is why this article is on top in Google."

    Although I believe this is nastyware.. It surely does not meet the definition or rootkit.

  10. Re:But why do they need to install spyware/rootkit by deftcoder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No.

    It would probably be an unwise business decision to automatically exclude over half of your potential customers at this juncture.

    --
    Peace sells, but who's buying?
  11. SEO bait by agendi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whether it is a rootkit or not, I'll let others more knowledgeable than me decide that but the comments in the article basically has the author admit that he ties the word rootkit and the game together to get better SEO. Not only is the article light on actual technical detail it declares fire where there may be a hint of smoke for the purpose of driving traffic. I know I must be new here..

    --
    I just can't be bothered.
  12. Re:This is why fucking capitialism needs to be by Corwn+of+Amber · · Score: 3, Funny

    In Soviet Russia, Capitalism destroys YOU!

    Erm. Wait...

    --
    Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
  13. Inaccurate. by Ahnteis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Although this "protection" scheme is horrible, crappy, the spawn of Satan himself, etc -- I don't believe it qualifies as a rootkit since it is not hidden. It IS resistant to removal, which warrants complaint, but accuracy is important in making such a complaint / discussion.

    I *really* wish we could force (through consumer pressure rather than legislation if possible) publishers to acknowledge copy protection on the OUTSIDE of boxes (or other appropriate pre-purchase manner).

    It's hard to boycott something that you don't hear about until AFTER purchase. (Especially since it's very difficult to return an opened game.)

  14. Not a rootkit by Torodung · · Score: 5, Informative

    The reason for the !CAUTION! key is to keep an ignorant user from wiping out his key tokens in the SecuROM subkey. That's why there's an "!" at the beginning; it sorts first in the subkey. So if a user stupidly tries to delete the entire SecuROM key (not realizing that it's his DRM) while his game is installed, or even after he's uninstalled, the first attempted deleted subkey will be the !CAUTION! key and Windows will abort.

    Thus it is a poor way to keep stupid users from trashing their DRM, not a rootkit.

    The reason it shows up in "Rootkit Revealer" is because true rootkits use the embedded null tactic to keep users from deleting keys registering malware dll's, startup settings, etc. That way, the user has no way to deregister the malware or stop its launch.

    However, the Rootkit Revealer does not simply point out rootkits. It's not that simple. RR points out suspicious methods and/or hidden files, and requires the user to analyze whether those methods and files indicate an actual piece of malware.

    Clearly, a key that simply warns you not to delete other keys is not malware.

    It is annoying, however, and the only way to get rid of a key with embedded nulls is with DelRegNull. I didn't like that one bit.

    My key was added with the install of Neverwinter Nights 2, however, which also uses SecuROM. This key has been around for a while, folks. Someone is crying "rootkit," when really all it is is a sloppy hack to keep users from eliminating their SecuROM keys.

    What's really annoying about this method is that the malformed key is not removed when you uninstall the software that requires it. SecuROM also drops a few malformed files in the directory %userprofile%\Application Data\SecuROM\UserData. They won't delete either, because they are key files which the folks at Sony have deemed MUST NEVER be deleted. Great. The only way I could manage to clean out those was by mounting the partition with NTFS-3g and issuing an rm *.*. Otherwise, another hack keeps Windows from moving the key files, probably because if you could copy them, you could run a game on any machine with the keys.

    This is definitely more arrogance, and completely annoying, but certainly not a rootkit. I would love to hear what the suits at Sony have to say about their crapware. I expect nothing less than a true SecuROM removal kit, since it doesn't get removed on uninstall.

    --
    Toro

    1. Re:Not a rootkit by Dachannien · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The undeletable files under the Application Data tree may be protected by the cmdlineext.dll shell extension that is also installed with SecuROM (and gets a lot less fanfare than uaservice7.exe does). In earlier versions of SecuROM, one of the functions of this extension was to prevent you from deleting 16-bit executables (you'd get a sharing violation error if you tried). I've heard that the latest version of SecuROM doesn't do that anymore, but it may have other similar properties or may have its scope narrowed a bit to the so-called sacred files you mentioned.

      Note that cmdlineext.dll (and other versions cmdlineext02.dll, cmdlineext03.dll) can be a bit tricky to remove. Since it's registered as a shell extension, and Explorer is invoked during startup, the file will always be in use unless you unregister it:

      regsvr32 /u cmdlineext.dll

      After rebooting, you can then (hopefully) delete the file. Note, however, that the file will be recreated and re-registered the next time you run a SecuROM game, so you have to take some extreme measures if you want to ensure that the file can't come back. I've tried creating a zero-length file and setting the permissions to Deny for all users, as well as setting the file read-only, and that seems to do it for at least some versions of SecuROM.

      This functionality is at least as nefarious as the more commonly reported portion of SecuROM, which is indeed a service in the current version and can be stopped like other services.

      Anyway, as for the larger question, I didn't buy Civ IV because of SecuROM, and I'm not buying BioShock because of it, either. If 2K decides to capitulate on this issue at some point, I'll reconsider. In any case, it'll give Irrational time to work on a patch for some other issues that have come up.

  15. UAService7 not on my system thank god by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have a laptop with a 7900gs, the thing burns disks. Thank god securerom doesn't think my machine is evil enough to install the DRM service. I don't mind having the unremovable keys and files on my PC as long as i'm playing the game.

    By the way, there's an easier way to delete the files under appdata.

    Type "at /next 9:02pm c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe /interactive" after looking at the clock and seeing it's 9:01am. Wait until 9:02 and you'll get a dos prompt running as the machine account. Go delete your files.

    1. Re:UAService7 not on my system thank god by Torodung · · Score: 2, Informative

      Type "at /next 9:02pm c:\windows\system32\cmd.exe /interactive" after looking at the clock and seeing it's 9:01am. Wait until 9:02 and you'll get a dos prompt running as the machine account. Go delete your files. Cool, but the correct syntax is:

      at 9:02pm /interactive %systemroot%\system32\cmd.exe
      If running as SYSTEM will delete these files, it is a lot easier than mounting with NTFS-3g. I couldn't test this method because the files are already gone. Thanks for the tip!

      --
      Toro
  16. Re:This is why fucking capitialism needs to be by OrangeTide · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yea because the communists are known for their vibrant game publishing industry.

    Vote with your dollar and don't buy this shit!

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  17. PC gaming by ucblockhead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why, after being a PC gamer for 20 years, I recently bought a console.

    I got sick and tired of copy protection fucking up my machine, or refusing to run a valid copy because it didn't like my disk. (Medieval Total War and Diablo II being two games in particular that simply would not run on my hardware without a CD crack.)

    Having to upgrade hardware every couple years was annoying, but it's all this crap heaped on me, who is trying to pay real money for games that pushed it over the edge. I'm sure I'm not alone. And yes, I know that Console games are protected too...but for console games, it's transparent to the user.

    Note that I also paid for "Galactic Civilizations II", which was not protected, and the expansion will be the only PC game I purchase this year.

    --
    The cake is a pie
    1. Re:PC gaming by Lothsahn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As a sidenote, I just toured the Stardock facility, and those guys/girls are really nice. They're very reasonable and kind people--and I think they're small enough that they haven't jumped on the DRM bandwagon because some higher-ups thought it would get them more sales.

      Gal Civ II rocks--it's an awesome game.

      --
      -=Lothsahn=-
  18. Re:This is why fucking capitialism needs to be by fred+fleenblat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One word: TETRIS!

  19. Actually, these rootkits are good... by Crazy+Taco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good for certain uses anyway. I've participated in Iowa State University's Cyber Defense competitions as a red team hacker, and I've found they really help to take out the defending teams. Every team is required to run a regular Windows desktop that any user can access (the teams often play the part of universities or other facilities trying to secure a public lab), and it's fun to just walk up like a normal user, put in a "normal" music CD or game (courtesy of Sony), and then BOOM, rootkited. From there on, of course, things get easier... it's hard to remove malicious files when the OS won't let you know they are there :D.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
    1. Re:Actually, these rootkits are good... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sweet. I've played Blue Team on the Mid-Atlantic Regional CyberDefense Competition run by CyberWATCH on the east coast with the team from CCBC for the first 2 years; but I'm out now, because I'm a security professional. Third year I'll be running red team; I've gotten permission, and I'm a student of Offensive Security (Offsec 101, going to go into Wifu and B2M when they're out too) NOW so the competition in March will let me put my studies to the test and get some experience (good arrangement!).

  20. Re:raising vs begging the question by DeeKayWon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I get tired of people using phrases they don't understand.

    Considering that the meaning of "begs the question" that you say is wrong may very well be the more common understanding, I'd say they understand it perfectly well. Common understanding of words and phrases are what define a language.

    Honestly, I think people keep using the phrase "begs the question" in their summaries for the express purpose of annoying people like you.

  21. Mod Slashdot -1 Troll by Azure+Khan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Posting articles like this, which barely qualify as news and are INTENTIONALLY sensationalized, only serve to damage Slashdot's thin journalistic credibility. The author even admits that he injected the "rootkit" description in order to drive site/SEO traffic. I understand that it's a slow news day, but this is pure FUD. There's too much out there to post crap like this without doing legwork. The editor should have at least clarified the article in the summary so that we were aware of the content.

    --

    --- I'm going sane in a crazy world.
  22. Re:This is why fucking capitialism needs to be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    In Soviet Russia ... Sony boycotts you!

  23. Re:raising vs begging the question by AusIV · · Score: 2, Informative
    I agree. This may not have been the original intent that spawned the phrase, but you can't say that people are wrong to put words together in an order that makes sense because those words in that order have been defined to have a different meaning.


    The word "begs" has a definition of "to make a humble or urgent plea." If one is to make a humble or urgent plea for a question, they are begging a question - no matter what other definition people try to claim "begging the question" has.

    If I were to claim "going to the store" had a definition relatively unrelated to that combination of words, it might be acceptable to use that definition, but it's absurd to suggest that people should stop using the phrase "going to the store" in relation to running over to the supermarket.

  24. Re:True Story... by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 4, Informative

    Then you can relax, because it doesn't install a rootkit - the story is false.

    No, it just installs a tool that's specifically intended to subvert an OS security mechanism (non-Admin user accounts). That's not a root kit, but it has a lot of the same security issues.

    --
    -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
  25. Re:True Story... by XenoPhage · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ah, interesting.. An article on Blues News refers to this interview over at Joystiq where this is stated :

    Given the internets and what they are -- with their tubes and all -- I want to sort of talk about the concerns people have. We take the concerns people have very seriously. There's been some concern like, "What happens if it's three years from now, or ten years from now, when I want to play this game. And, you know, Irrational Games has been hit by a meteor?" We will unset the online activation at some point in the future -- we're not talking about when. If people have concern about that they shouldn't be worried about that. This activation is for the early period of the game when it's really hot and there are people really trying to find ways to play the game without buying it. Of course, there are a lot of people who are legitimately trying to play it. We're not trying to be Draconian, we're trying to find a balance.

    Well, perhaps I will buy the game.. After I see this activation thing being disabled...

    --
    XenoPhage
    Technological Musings
  26. Re:But why do they need to install spyware/rootkit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Turns out, there is no Rootkit after all. Trash the article, update, whatever, but this is FUD and I smell lawsuit.

  27. Re:I know it really isn't a rootkit, but... by sqrt(2) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Devs like to hide things there because they know average users wont be able to easily change or find the information, which is why it's used to store CD keys and in the case of Bioshock, this "rootkit" nonsense. It's all a very windows-centric way of doing things too; having a central repository for virtually EVERY little configuration and customization. After spending some time in the Linux/BSD side the method of using individual config files still seems like the more logical, and technically superior way of handling configurations and settings. When I work with the registry I can't help but feel that things are intentionally obfuscated and muddled to discourage me from messing with anything. There are a few good examples of games that do it right, all the UT games use plaintext config files for the game settings. It still uses the registry for your CD key, but they are much better at keeping everything in the install directory than most other games.

    --
    If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
  28. Re:But why do they need to install spyware/rootkit by Praedon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article title on the blog has just changed replacing the word Rootkit to SecuROM. I believe Slashdot has done the internet a great justice today. We just made a blogger correct himself and prevent future FUD.

    (Remember, we are not your personal army.)

    --
    Just me
  29. Another Beer Coaster by firesyde424 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Do you remember those AOL CD's that came in the mail? I use them as beer coasters. Over the years, I have added companions to those first denizens of table top protection. Most have been advert cd's or the cd's that contain the bloatware from a new computer. Some, such as X3, were wonderful games that were destroyed by their DRM schemes. In that case, starforce, which forced its scheme on you without notification.

    Did we not learn the first time? Why can these multi billion dollar corporations not come up with anything better than the broken and bloated software the average consumer must choke down?

    I bought Bioshock today. I've played it for a full 3 hours. And that is all the more that it will be played.

    Welcome to the beer coaster pile, Bioshock, I forsee many coffee rings and soda drops in your future

  30. Punish your customers by OverflowingBitBucket · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to buy a fair few more music CDs until the funny games they started playing to stop me playing my entirely-legitimately-purchased CDs on my PC. It was a gradual thing- I just started getting sick of half of my purchased music CDs not working when I got them home to listen to whilst I worked. Over time I just stopped buying them so often.

    I used to buy a fair few more PC games. After some of the nastier games the bigger vendors started playing, I stopped buying larger commercial games and moved on to games made by smaller indies (okay, there were some other reasons to, but that's a discussion for another day). They are far less likely to install crap on your system or make you jump through hoops post-purchase.

    Until recently. I purchased a game from a larger indie and then found out I had to "activate" it (after they got my money, of course). They "promise" it'll all be okay, they've got money aside in case they go out of business (which they'll never touch, of course, promise promise). But it's okay because "Windows does it too". I'd name-and-shame them but they did make an effort to make it right when I kicked up. And honestly, I don't want this fight. So let's just say it was a good indie game.

    So I'll be buying less and less games over time, I guess.

    So where are we now? Here I am, along with other paying customers, doing the right thing- and I get shafted as a result. I can get a better copy with less restrictions by going to the local warez-are-us. That copy won't stop working ten years later when the developer shuts down. It won't phone home and refuse to run. It won't refuse to run without a net connection sending God-knows-what to their activation server.

    As a software developer I can completely understand the reason to protect your software from being casually distributed, but dammit- CD driver replacements, rootkits, web trojans, privilege elevation servers, surprise "activation". Why are you subjecting your legitimate customers to this nonsense, when the people ripping you off are just going to get it from someone who has already stripped this stuff out? Don't you realise the logical conclusion of making your product considerably worse that the warez version? Of making every software install a risk of hosing the system?

  31. removing the rootkit by Macrosoft0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    dont worry, you can easily remove it by [secureRom has detected an attempt to remove copy-protection, removing text], and then its all better

    --
    stuff
  32. Not a Sony Game by CcntMnky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is Sony being blamed again? This isn't published by Sony. It's not on a Sony system. In fact, it's a direct competitor with no indication of cross-platform coming in the future. The article doesn't mention Sony until the comments. Does no one on /. play games?

  33. Troll my ass by BillGatesLoveChild · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Things aren't a troll just because you disagree with it. If you don't agree, say why.

    Read the Moderator Guidelines.

  34. Re:But why do they need to install spyware/rootkit by jahudabudy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (Remember, we are not your personal army.)

    I think you make an important point that is seldom stressed: /. wields quite a bit of power in terms of internet outcry. That's why we see so many troll articles; interested parties know that submitting their spin to /. will give their viewpoint a wide audience. That's why its important that we, as a community, take the time to investigate claims and discuss them based on fact (yeah yeah, I know). If we behaved more responsibly as a community, rather than jumping on every rabid bandwagon that comes our way, I think we would see a marked decrease in the amount of crap press releases being posted as "news for nerds". If people with an ax to grind needed to be sure that posting to /. wouldn't expose their lies, instead of just taking for granted the blog will be a group masturbation fest over FUD that affirms our deepest fears, they would think twice (maybe) before posting the more paranoid delusions that we see here.

    It really is our internet; we have no one to blame for what it is other than ourselves.

    --
    ...sometimes, in order to hurt someone very badly, you have to tell that person terrible lies. - PA
  35. Re:Would be nice by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 5, Funny

    There's a song....
    Fdisk, Format, Re-Install, Do-Dah

    --
    I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
  36. Re:Maybe Sony is doing this on purpose? by sanosuke76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Eh, I think a better thing to contemplate would be, what involvement or say would Sony have, at all, in the DRM used on this title?

    It's not their title, it's not even coming to their platform. The only way the publisher would end up with Sony DRM on this title (which Sony definitely doesn't have a stake in), is if the PUBLISHER sought it out.

    In short, if folks are looking for an angle where Sony somehow masterminded this, I think they're going to be quite disappointed IF they think about it logically. On the other hand, if their thought process goes: "Rootkit=SONY!", then I think they're a bit too dense for logical thought in the first place.

    --
    My 229 is all the Sig I need http://thegunwiki.com/
  37. Re:raising vs begging the question by sqrt(2) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I used to do all those thing, yes. People actually get more annoyed at me when I try and correct them though, so I find I can do my job better if I just smile and nod :)

    Most of them are beyond help anyway. I'd also say that those are examples where one would be justified in correcting improper use. I see no problem using begs the question to mean raises the question, it's perfectly acceptable English. Use circular logic or reasoning to refer to the logical fallacy, because these days no one is going to know what you're talking about, or care. And don't bring the law into this, that's another can of worms entirely. Legal jargon is intentionally difficult with numerous minefields to navigate, you'll probably need a lawyer to make sen...oh damn, they're good.

    --
    If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
  38. That's not a root kit... by hickmott · · Score: 2, Funny

    THIS is a root kit!

  39. Re:Yes it is. RootkitRevealer says so by g051051 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Rootkit Revealer merely reports that there's a suspicious registry key, and it marks it suspicious because it's got an embedded null that makes it difficult to delete manually without special tools. The key itself is not hidden or disguised in any way, and the software in question doesn't exhibit other rootkit behaviors (no "backdoor", no attempt to disguise or hide presence, etc.)

  40. More bad news by sqrt(2) · · Score: 2, Informative

    This "rootkit" stuff--and I know it's not a true rootkit, just some overzealous DRM, it's still bad--isn't the only thing that might put some people off from buying Bioshock. The game requires a video card that supports PS3.0, so that means there's a lot of gamers out there that simply wont be able to run the game, DRM or not. Over 40% of Steam users from Valve's hardware survey are not capable of running Bioshock. This article from arstechnica explains, it's mostly the ATI x800/850 users who are being kept from playing. There is a project in development to port Bioshock to work on the older cards, so we'll see how that pans out. This whole thing reminds me of a similar situation with BF2 requiring PS2.0 support, plenty of older cards that could run the game fine otherwise were incompatible because EA didn't include an alternate rendering path for cards that didn't include the new PS standard.

    --
    If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
  41. More Criminal Behavior by Corporations by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It should be a prosecutable, felony crime for any product to install ANY admin-level software on my computer without my prior permission!

    Period!

  42. No DRM for me. by lanner · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I was looking forward to buying this game, but then I heard about the DRM.

    I looked to see if Steam had a version that wasn't infected, but it was too.

    I'll pass on this game. There are others.

  43. Re:This is why fucking capitialism needs to be by StrongAxe · · Score: 2, Funny

    Have you watched the documentary(BBC4 I think) or read about Tetris? ...

    The problem with communism is if you end up with political types not unlike G.W. Bush running it. Would you want the Ministry of Video Games to be managed by Bush cronies? Wouldn't that be just terrible


    If so, Tetris would be outlawed as a Weapon of Mass Distraction.

  44. Re:But why do they need to install spyware/rootkit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > It's SUPPOSEDLY, if you listen to the party line, to prevent "hackers" from using the demo executable to figure out how to bypass the protection on the retail.

    It's more like if the demo is the same exe, and you don't put the copy protection on it, you've just provided a "no cd fixed exe" patch to anyone who wants it.

    (my captcha is "goatees". you probably already know what i thought it was on the first read)

  45. This sucks bad, and I won't be buying it now by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First of all, your link to the forums goes to a thread about achievement points on the Xbox version of the game. This thread is much more relevant; it's about the rootkit.

    Second of all, I, like many other people, was looking forward to Bioshock's release. I, like I hope many other people will do, refuse to buy it now.

    Whether people thing of this as FUD or not, the simple matter of the fact is that:

    • Bioshock installs software that allows the administrative privilege system of your computer to be subverted. They claim that it's a benefit and they have only good intentions. Maybe, but we all know what the road to hell is paved with. Just because 2K doesn't use their installed software for evil purposes doesn't mean that another hacker's software can't use it to take over a system using privileges that it shouldn't have. When Sony's rootkit distributed on CDs got out into the wild, it didn't take long for other more dangerous software to take advantage of the security hole it created.
    • The aforementioned software hides itself from detection and cannot be removed via normal means. This is a massive breach of trust for a software company to a user.

    2K Games has A FAQ about SecuROM that is, at best, contradictory in several places. They say:

    A "rootkit" can be described as software or a set of software tools intended to conceal running processes, files or system data from the operating system and which can open ports to allow remote access to the system...

    SecuROM DOES NOT USE any root kit technology in its implementation. [Their emphasis, not mine.]

    However, Sysinternals' RootkitRevealer software begs to differ. Who am I going to trust, a game company that is practicing Defective by Design tactics, or Mark Russinovich, a software engineer who's proven time and again that he is the guru of this stuff, the guy who discovered the infamous Sony rootkit, the guy who knew Windows better than even the Windows people knew Windows, so well that Microsoft bought his company and hired him? I'll gladly cast my lot with Mark any day, even if he does work for Microsoft now.

    2K Games also says in its FAQ:

    SecuROM does not fingerprint the hardware [of the computer running Bioshock].

    They then go on to say:

    The only data collected is the serial being used for activation, the IP address used for activation, an identifier for the software being activated, and the hash of the machine ID...

    You won't have to reactivate unless you change several pieces of hardware and this will count as one of your 5 allowed computers, if reactivation is required.

    Um... If SecuROM doesn't fingerprint my hardware, what is the "machine ID" that a hash is taken of and sent to their servers? And how the hell is it possible that changing several pieces of hardware might result in a required reactivation? The simple answer is, of course, that SecuROM does fingerprint your hardware, and 2K Games lied to our faces in the hopes that computer users who aren't as savvy as us won't get bogged down with the technical details and just read the part where they say that it doesn't fingerprint the hardware.

    This is totally inexcusable, and I won't have anything to do with this company. Will the game be cool? Maybe, but nothing is cool enough to install this crap on my computer for. As far as I'm concerned, 2K Games has destroyed its credibility, and they can go to hell for it.

  46. Another inconsistency... by KingSkippus · · Score: 2, Informative

    (from above post...)

    A 2K Games forums administrator, "2K Elizabeth," posted this message when a brouhaha started erupting:

    there is no securom on the demo.

    This is patently false, as pointed out by several users' follow-up posts. One even took a nice screenshot that shows that this is at best a pretty hideous example of an administrator not knowing what the hell she's talking about, at worst another outright lie that attempts to appease people who don't know better and can't actually check the veracity of what's being said.

  47. If I steal your credit card numbers... by KingSkippus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How the HELL did this get modded informative!!?

    The summary never says that Bioshock is a Sony game. In fact, Bioshock isn't even mentioned until well into the summary, and it's clear that they licensed the software from Sony. The summary makes it crystal clear that Sony is the owner of SecuROM copy protection, the copy protection that Bioshock installs.

    If Sony came up with the technology, and then the other guys decided to license it and use it, does this mean Sony had much to do with it? Nope.

    Are you on drugs? I mean, seriously, are you on drugs!? That's the only way I can think of to explain how stupid that sentence is. If Sony came up with the technology, and then the other guys decided to license it and use it, does this mean Sony had much to do with it? Hell yes, because they wrote it!!! Plus, there's also the little fact that they've done this exact same thing before that you're totally ignoring. Once is a lapse in judgement. Twice is a pattern. I wasn't what you call and anti-Sony-fanboy before all of this rootkit fiasco, but I sure as hell am now. If not wanting rootkits installed on my computer makes me a anti-Sony-fanboy, then I suppose I'm proud to call myself one, and for the mere sake of computer security, I highly recommend to everyone I know that they immediately become anti-Sony-fanboys too.

    If I steal your credit card numbers, and then other guys decided to buy them and use them, does this mean that I had much to do with it?

    Damn, there's dense, and then there's dense. You, sir, are the latter kind. By all means, feel free to riddle your computer with rootkits for the sake of playing a stupid game, and be happy that at least you know that you're selling your soul to the devil, unlike most of the non-computer-savvy users who will probably buy and play this game that are none the wiser.

    1. Re:If I steal your credit card numbers... by ghostcorps · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but your point, as full-of-bluster as it was, is moot. Sony owns the product, Sony sells the product. Thats the entire breadth, width and depth of their involvement in this issue as far as we know.

      Just because they were dumb enough to do it in the first place, and compound the issue by selling it, does not automatically make them responsible for every vendor who decides to buy it.

      You think there was any kind of board meeting when they sold the license? You think an exec even knew about it? no... A rep called another rep, and the deal was done. No, men in black suits. No, conspiracy, just a dumb move.

      --
      axis discrepancy indicates hexagons beyond control anomaly
  48. You still don't get it. by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're not buying a THING, you're buying a SERVICE, with all the benefits and limitations you're pointing out.

    Not exactly, you're buying a LICENSE to play their game. SecuROM is NOT required to play their game, therefore it is NOT a requirement of the license. As such, it has no place in the game.

    Worse, SecuROM actually PREVENTS you from using your computer in other commonly used, non-infringing ways. So by buying the game, you're actually buying the crippling of your system along with it.

    But, then, I have a separate Windows partition used for ONLY GAMES, and I'm not worried about much that might be required to facilitate this.

    You need to read again what SecuROM does. Where you have it installed is irrelevant. It actually alters your operating system in a manner that allows non-privileged applications to run as an administrative user. That means that at the very least, it can affect your entire Windows installation. And before you go with your "I've used Linux..." rationale, you should realize that it can also affect your Linux installation.

    Here's how it could work. I write a piece of software that uses the elevated privileges that SecuROM grants to normal users without your knowledge or consent that goes in and wipes all non-recognized partitions on your hard drive. Voila, your system has been compromised because playing a stupid game whose publishers willingly opened up a security hole on your system. That's what I mean when I keep saying that even if 2K Games didn't have evil intentions, what they're unleashing on people can most certainly be used for evil purposes.

    The thought that you are paying them for the privilege of having a rootkit installed on your computer and that you're okay with it quite disconcerting to me, but by all means, if the service of having your system compromised is worth $50 to you, go ahead. (There are lots of people who would willingly compromise your system for free, incidentally.) Personally, I find it disgusting that anyone can't see the bigger picture and would support a company that engages in these practices, but it's your computer and your money.

    1. Re:You still don't get it. by Dunkirk · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thought that you are paying them for the privilege of having a rootkit installed on your computer and that you're okay with it quite disconcerting to me, but by all means, if the service of having your system compromised is worth $50 to you, go ahead. (There are lots of people who would willingly compromise your system for free, incidentally.) Personally, I find it disgusting that anyone can't see the bigger picture and would support a company that engages in these practices, but it's your computer and your money. As others have pointed out, this particular piece of software is NOT a rootkit. I changed my tax preparation software because of issues LIKE this before, but my option here is play the game, or don't. I appreciate that someone who is vehemently against these practices is at least allowing me that it's my decision. I've chosen to do it; doesn't mean everyone has to. If we found that the software did, or even COULD, wipe out other partitions, I would avoid it. Like anything else in computer security, it's a constant balancing act. I find it acceptable in this case, but only just so.

      In this particular example, I actually think this is a GOOD thing. I have another computer in the house for my kids, and there is one game on it that requires administrative permissions to run. I trust that it's just poorly written, and is not doing anything "bad" to the computer, so I enter those credentials when the kids want to play it. With Windows' architecture the way it is (needing elevated privileges to do basic things), I welcome this SORT of software to alleviate this problem. BELIEVE ME: I understand the tradeoffs. Again, it's a balancing act, and up to individuals to weigh their exposure to the benefits.

      My original thoughts on weighing in here was just for people to keep in mind that this TOTAL situation is all part of the "negotiation" of either buying the thing or NOT buying the thing. If you agree to it, great, enjoy yourself. If you don't, then shut up and move on. Stop acting like this is some sort of crime against humanity to offer a certain thing at a certain price. That's the offer; take it or leave it. Just like anything else.
      --
      Acts 17:28, "For in Him we live, and move, and have our being."
  49. Oh great-Intangible clues. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "But only for making the software/music, not for the copies. So if an artist/programmer spends 100 hours making a song or programming an application, he/she should get paid for the 100 hours they spent, according to their hourly rate."

    Typical slashdot. First most games are produced by teams, not individuals. Second you may want to look up "Mass Production" and "Economics of scale". Apparently those are your weak areas.

    "Why do people think it's fair to get paid for work they actually haven't done ?"

    It's amazing how many "haven't done"'s one can download over a broadband connection.

    "I don't see how music or software is any different."

    This is slashdot. Anything "intangible" is hard to understand.

    1. Re:Oh great-Intangible clues. by BorgDrone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Typical slashdot. First most games are produced by teams, not individuals.

      Houses are build by teams, should I pay a license fee for every person who visits my house ? No, you pay the guys who build your house according to their hourly rate, doesn't really matter if it's one guy or tens or hundreds.

      Second you may want to look up "Mass Production" and "Economics of scale". Apparently those are your weak areas.

      No, they aren't.

      So, if a game sells 2 million copies, do I pay half as much as when the game sells 1 million copies ?
    2. Re:Oh great-Intangible clues. by Treffster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with your logic is it totally ignores risk, reward, and performance. If you make a piece of rubbish "game" (like daikatana) according to you the team should make about the same amount of money as a group who make the truly transcendent Bioshock. And this isn't about the programmers anyway, its about the companies who finance them. A company can spend 20 million dollars to buy a bunch of programmers from India to make them a game according to a piece of paper you wrote. And another group can spend 100-200 million dollars to hire a team of experienced managers and coders and content developers to work together and make something worth actually buying. The risk of course, is that you wont make your money back and so make a loss. This is not a simple "make a house according to a plan". Thats totally naive. Any code monkey can make boilerplate code. This is about investing money and time and resources to create a product that sells a number of units to make the money back. All games are not equal, and do not cost the same to make. And finally, lets not even get into the differences between software and physical devices. Both take the same amount of time to create, but one needs to be sold per unit, while the other can be reused without limit. If we reach a point where that difference becomes the defining feature, nobody will bother making software -> they'll just start selling hardware that incidentally happens to play a single game. Look up dongles on wikipedia if you want to know what that future looks like.

  50. Disapointed - Not Buying - Passing the Word by BrendaEM · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Every video game I have I bought legally. In fact every piece of software I own, I own legally. Does the uninstaller uninstall the DRM cleanly or not? Why wasn't there a DRM rootkit or protected registry warning given?

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  51. "Reasonable" my ass. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Expecting to be paid for your software is reasonable.

    Taking tactics which can actually damage your customers' computers is not.

    In fact, copy protection is entirely unnecessary to be paid for your work. Just look at record sales -- people do, in fact, still buy CDs, even though most have no copy protection at all. They even buy DVDs, even though the protection there has been so thoroughly cracked that there are one-click programs to rip a DVD and put it on your video iPod. Plenty of people still subscribe to Cable TV, even though most shows are available within a few hours on BitTorrent.

    Oh, and by the way, before you mention it -- a pirated copy is not a lost sale. A pirated copy is not a lost sale. A pirated copy is not a lost sale. Repeat this until you understand it, and then take another look at the statistics -- the RIAA/MPAA are still insanely rich, as are the better artists, musicians, directors, and so on. There is simply not significant evidence, anywhere, that they have lost money due to piracy.

    I know it's comforting when you can believe the world is black and white, but it isn't.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  52. That's like begging to be cracked by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Let's be blunt here. There is software I do not want on my PC. Rootkits for example. And I have no problem with my conscience to remove rootkits that come tagging along with programs I want to use. I licensed the software, I am allowed to use it, I do not want you to bug my computer, reduce its stability or its security. You don't care about my needs, I don't care about yours. Fair deal.

    I just wonder how many people will still take the, for the functionality unnecessary, burden of actually licensing the software, though.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  53. Raaaiiiiiaaaaain on your wedding day by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Funny

    I've been saying that for a while... slashdot is dominated by a clique-ish groupthink that is absolutely unhealthy, and makes it hard to take much of the opinion here seriously. Too many people spend too much time saying things that they will make them look "cool" to other similarly insecure slashdotter, and not enough time actually critically reading the articles. So basically, you're pointing out that you agree with the +5-moderated GP post, and have been making the same "insightful" point for some time?

    Looks like you're only doing this because you want to join in the groupthink and look cool!

    Sorry, couldn't resist ;-)
    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).