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US May Invoke "State Secrets" To Stop Banking Suit
An anonymous reader sends us to the International Herald Tribune for news that the Bush administration is signaling that it plans to turn once again to a favorite legal tool, the 'state secrets' privilege. The administration wants to shut down a lawsuit brought against Swift, a huge Belgium banking cooperative that that the article calls the "nerve center of the global banking industry," after it was revealed that Swift secretly let the CIA comb through millions of private financial records. Quoting: "Two US banking customers sued Swift on invasion-of-privacy grounds. Many legal and financial analysts expected that the lawsuit would be thrown out because US banking privacy laws are considered much more lax than those in much of Europe. But to the surprise of many, a judge refused to throw out the lawsuit in a ruling in June."
but I'm to lazy to RTFA.
Could someone please sum it up in 30 words or less?
Thanks!
Sue in Belgium.
So, uhhhh, when will Americans start to realize that there's just a wee bit of fascism taking hold of their nation? You'd think with something as clear-cut as this, more people would wake up to that fact...
Since when can the State Secret privilege be used to keep secret a program that is probably illegal? That's an enormous conflict of interest. The president doesn't (or at least shouldn't) have the "privilege" to cover up what are probably illegal actions.
Basically, those are the guys who run international banking, with the message centers and the networking. As far as I know, their physical location is a secret aswell, only a few of these centers exist in the world. SWIFT is more or less owned by the largest banks in the world, roughly based on their marketshare and size. That was the only way they felt assured that noone is going to swindle them with 8 bit xor "encryption" on financial transactions.
If these guys are cooperating with Bush/the US Govt., then basically the largest banks in the world are cooperating with Bush, giving the US access to international banking.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Hey, can I rummage through your girlfriend's panty drawer? She won't mind, right? I'm looking for weapons of mass destruction. Seriously.
Over here in Europe this was 'big news' a few months ago (I live in Belgium).
The problem over here was that Swift provided the CIA with access to the banking transactions and allegedly personal data from all EU citizens. They could do this because Swift also has a datacentre in the USA (because this data is very precious it has to be duplicated in geographically different areas).
At least that's how I remember it to be reported.
One of the things also mentioned was that the EU could not/would not do the same against American citizens, perhaps out of fear?
To my knowledge, the last report about it stated that the data-transaction to the American government had not stopped, since then the (small) mediastorm has passed over and nobody cares anymore.
But I'm too lazy to RTFA.
Could someone please sum it up in 30 words or less?
Thanks!
> They could do this because Swift also has a datacentre in the USA
> (because this data is very precious it has to be duplicated in
> geographically different areas).
So precious that bunch of Bushmonkeys get to pore over it?
This should all be taken care of within a generation or two, when even the holdout industries of banking and finance decide that doing business in the US is not worth it.
Maaaan - where are those moderator points when you need them...
More likely that the CIA cannot do that on american citizens iself(but an intermediary could probably be found.
All the administrations have been lockstep since Reagan fell to Tecumseh's Curse in 1981 (while he didn't die like all the other presidents elected at the decade mark, the rogue elements of his administration [led by V.P. George H.W. Bush] took over while he was recovering from the coup attempt).
George H.W. Bush had his speech about the New World Order and negotiated NAFTA. Clinton pushed NAFTA implementation through the congress.
I never really learned to read at teh government schools, and do much better listening to Chomsky's talks. Found Class War via bittorrent, and have borrowed a couple other cds from the local library. Definitely recommended listening.
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
You mean to tell me that the rich are collaborating with the powerful? Well that's gotta be a first...
...to comb through private financial recordings from a Belgian bank in the first place? I mean, last time I checked, Belgium does not exactly fall under US jurisdiction, doesn't it? Wouldn't that fall under some international laws or something?
On some hypothetical "absolute scale" of liberal/conservative, it might be true that CNN or ABC is 'conservative' and Fox only more so, but in reality there is no absolute scale. Everything is relative to something else: either the citizenry at large, or to the consumers who affect a particular market.
To Noam Chomsky, it's probably true that CNN is very conservative. On his own scale, he's the zero point, and CNN is right of him, and Fox even further right of that. To Ann Coulter, they probably both read as rather leftist, because she's her own zero point and they're both left of her. Depending on which opinion poll you want to believe, the "American public" is somewhere else on the spectrum, and various news sources are 'conservative' or 'liberal' relative to that.
The only borderline-objective source for normalcy seems, to me, to be what the market actually produces in response to consumer desires. It's easy to lie on an opinion poll to make yourself look or feel good, when you're not spending your own money or time. But the market is a good measure of what people actually do; and people abandoned CNN in the late 90s and early 2000s to watch Fox News instead. That's an indicator to me, that the public is actually quite -- perhaps frighteningly -- conservative.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
So, USA citizens, when will you wake up and revolt?
because lets face it, there is a good chance the Republicans will not be in power..
Willy
One of the things also mentioned was that the EU could not/would not do the same against American citizens, perhaps out of fear?
The EU can't and won't do that, as they'd be breaking the law.how prior to the 2006 elections, the networks justified the tremendous slant of the guests on their Sunday Morning talk shows by pointing out that Republicans controlled the White House, Senate and House.
But after the 2006 elections... well, the slant still exists. Guests are mostly conservative and overwhelmingly white males.
The public has elected a Democratic House and Senate but you wouldn't realize it from the media...
Ah, but then the Democrats will be, and they'll have a vested interest in keeping the status quo (because they're benefiting from it).
*pats willy_me on head* - Your naïvete is so adorable...
The bad thing is that SWIFT continues to allow free access to the data in violation of US and EU laws. What they've done is to put an auditor in place to review the queries and see if they are terrorist related (that auditor has no access to terror info and has no way of telling).
It's not legal in the US, it's not legal in Europe, it's only legal in Bush brain.
They're like some third-world country run by a sadistic dictator and highly paid law enforcement & military where the legislation and constitution is as good as toilet paper.
Bad news is that the same shit is spreading around the globe.
The damage the current administration has done will last for quite a while after the next election. Do you really think the loyalties of the judges that have been appointed in the past 6 years are to the American people? That is the scary part of what this administration has done.
I like how this post that ridicules and mocks Bush's Texas accent is modded "insightful". There there millions of people that talk in the same manner and have the same twang as he does, and it's and insult to use that as a form of mockery.
It's a typical snobby and I would argue downright racist comment here. Making fun of someone's accent is not funny or insightful and for the moderators to mod it as such shows the kind of insensitivities that Bush haters have. Would a post that mocks Asians or Black or Mexican accents be insightful? No I didn't think so.
You should be ashamed of yourselves.
To my knowledge, the last report about it stated that the data-transaction to the American government had not stopped, since then the (small) mediastorm has passed over and nobody cares anymore.
This was recently up in Norwegian media too. I wasn't (couldn't? be) stopped, but our banks have to inform all their customers the US is snooping in all international transactions. Personally I find it rather astounding that other governments accept that a third party nation can look at all the financial transactions between two nations, but what do I know. I'm sure they'll resort to the same way money is smuggled out by immigrants - good old cash.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If you can't keep your ADD in check long enough to read a one-page article, it's not like you'll provide any useful feedback or do anything about it anyway. If you want to know what it says, take some goddamn ritalin.
Belgium is the country (a noun), Belgian is the adjective. Being that I live in the country, this is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.
You may now mod me offtopic, and rightly so.
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
Your making two assumptions.
First, that whoever is in power next will WANT to investigate this.
Second, that there will be a "next election", don't forget that those in power do anything to stay in power. This administration has already tried to delay the elections in '04 due to concerns over security and has since set itself up with some scary martial law powers.
Anyone want to take bets on the odds of there being a major "terrorist attack" in the US within 4-6 months of the next election? And as long as it doesn't directly impact the "common person", increase in gas price, beer, cable TV or interrupt Monday night football, most of the sheeple will just let it happen.
yeah, this country is full of dumbfucks who think that either of the two big parties have some holy banner flying and the misjustice of the other party will be washed away when the balance of power sways.
people need to wake the fuck up. we've seen how much more this problem is snowballing and simply passing the balance of power around amongst the two major parties has only made things worse...
you people who are dumb enough to think that a lot of these problems really began with bush are going to be eating shit when your guy or gal gets into office only to find that you've been fooled yet again. is that going to be enough for you guys to tell the two big parties to go fuck themselves and start to look into creating some competition for a corrupt machine? you big party fucks like to call it a corrupt regime but the fact of the matter is that one rides the other and in this way they survive with a hardy flow of campaign cash.
oh well, you big party assholes keep on going but don't sit with your head in your hands and crying "why? why?" when you're too fucking stupid to make a change in yourself.
if it isn't high time to see beyond the two party system i don't know if you'll ever see it. this isn't to say that things couldn't get worse but how much worse are you going to let it get?
Willy
----
WhoooRay!
New Democratic and Republican candidates are not be completely the same! They are associated with different rumors!
If a potential political candidate is rumored to admire the rule of wealth - they will register for a Democrat label and run in the Democratic party primary. If the potential candidate is suspected of warm feelings for the divine rule of Kings - they will register for a Republican label and run in the Republican party primary. I believe it's called managing your image. Our modern politicians are professionals.
As a result of this scandal, SWIFT plans to re-engineer their network to keep intra-European traffic within Europe. (Source: http://www.swift.com/index.cfm?item_id=62260)
The american people couldn't revolt their way out of a paper bag.
You stupid fuck, you list events that have taken place since 9-11, but the chance for the american people to revolt is LONG PAST, we are talking 100 years past. There is NO WAY for american people to revolt now. The police state has existed since world war 1, and any uprising is easily quelled by the government. Look at all the shit that just basic local law enforcement abuses. Then try to imagine a whole military and government this corrupt from the top down.
The point is, the POLLS ARE FIXED, and have been fixed since world war 1. Thus taking away our last shitty non effective way of revolting (voting). This isint the late 1700's and paul revere isint going to cry the redcoats are coming and for us to revolt.
I hate stupid fucking people who cannot interpret history and can only identify history which relate to post 9-11. Its only because it has become much more blatently obvoius since the 9-11 fuck job. Stop tooting your own horn about revolting because there is not a damn thing you can do about your own government either.
Revolting present day = getting shot by police saying i am a terrorist
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
God Bless America, land of the free. ... If you're a politician, you're free to do whatever the hell you want.
Swift has helped us root out terrorists for many years now...I don't understand how every ethical use of available tools has to be sold as some gestapo investigation. GUYS, WE'RE AT WAR. The radicle musilims have just done their homework, so that we don't all _realize_ that. How many more rings have to be discovered; there's been 20-30 in the last two years.
Don'tcha get it? It's not a bumper sticker...at least not the to the 3,000 dead on our own homeland. Turn off the CNN and George Soros feeds a while and take a breath!
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
It is rather surprising, but life terms for judges actually works much like the founders intended. Once these guys are appointed they are not beholden to their appointers and often start thinking outside the box. Someone who has been on the Supreme Court for 10-20 years may have rather different opinions than when he was first selected, and of course legislative oversight works to keep the most dogmatic and radical judges out of these positions.
there is a good chance the Republicans will not be in power..
That may happen sooner rather than later.
Bush's old Texas crowd is almost gone.
It has nothing to do with people desiring more conservative media as the grandparent states and everything to do with people exhausted by 9+ hour work days, then dealing with household chores, being quite literally hypnotized by flashing graphics and loud insistent voices. It worked for Hitler and unfortunately it seems to work for our new right wing authoritarians bent on taking over the world as well.
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
To a normal American, of course an American child is worth more than a child from some other country. This is not wrong and should not be surprising.
What country doesn't value it's own children most? Such a country, if it existed, would be failing the "survival of the fittest" test.
Silly Europeans. Our government does whatever it wants. Laws are for common folk.
Most people don't even think inside the box.
The fact that Fox News is so popular is indicative that the mainstream (non-Fox) media is, in fact, not as conservative as the majority of viewers want(ed) it to be.
No, it's because Fox created it's own pond where it could be the big fish. Non-fascist viewers vastly outnumber fascist viewers, but they are spread across CNN, MSNBC and broadcast stations. However, if you want fascist fact-free news, Fox is the way to go.
Other stations occasionally try and woo Fox viewers with wingnuts like Glenn Beck, who tries to make up for all the nice Mormons in this country by being the biggest asshole on the planet, but are just wasting their time. It's like the DLC pushing Democrats to basically be Bud Light Republicans: why go Light when you can get the real thing?
Don't worry at all. The thing is, the Bush administration is simply doing this, ONCE AGAIN, to hide the fact that they've behaved ethically for the past 8 years. All the problems? All the lies used to justify an illegal war of aggression? All the illegal prisons in Cuba, all the secret prisons in Europe? All the secret illegal wire-tapping programs? All the firing attorneys for purely political reasons? All of them had perfectly good explanations, but the Bush Administration is simply too humble to want everyone to know, so they use things like "state secrets" or "executive privilege" to protect themselves from the lack of controversy.
It's been a long time.
They do all that monitoring and they let the robber wire money to his bank account FIFTEEN times? Not possible to catch him? Yeah right.
3 2
;).
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/08/30/03212
Call me real cynical but the reason why a lot of the stuff is secret is because the rich and powerful don't want "the wrong people" to know how much money they are moving about and where. Same reason why these "holes" are there in the first place.
They don't want to "accidentally" catch the big fish while catching the small fry
You whine about this. Then when the US fails to stop terrorism, you whine about that and ask why the govenment haven't done more to catch these people.
/. post a while ago when people were shocked and horrified when a Tor server was seized.
The innocent have nothing to fear, and if you accounts are in order, then why should it bother you if they're glanced at by a security official.
Its like a
I ask you, what are you doing that merits total anonymity? Forgive my cynicism, but could it be something illegal?
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
And to make it more complex: The central bank of Belgium has been warned by SWIFT before sending data to the CIA. They gave their approval.
Legal stuffs wasn't at the top of everyone priority in september 2001. All you wanted to do (private companies included) is to help tracking down these bastards.
Well in good old Aussie we have such strict privacy laws you can't even get your own information. However, that does not stop the government from getting all your financial info for their tax records. Guess what - they're exempt! So you would not want to try suing in Australia, because you never want to get between a government and a fast buck.
Allan Barker http://www.alphatech5.com/
Allan Barker http://www.alphatech5.com
and not offer a sale on that day. E-commerce retailers need to get into the act too.
Actually the right doesn't really have a thinker like Chomsky. Now before you think this is just a flame I'll say that the right does have intellectuals but that the thought process is very different, right wing intellectuals are more about process and ideals than observation like Chomsky. Thus you get right wing thinkers like Russell Kirk (who I do respect),
http://www.kirkcenter.org/kirk/thought.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Kirk
and Ann Rand who argue that as long as the process is "moral" that any outcome is acceptable. For leftists on the other hand observation of outcomes is key, that's why you here about "social justice" on the left with specific examples of sweatshop conditions, American empire and then specific examples of CIA coups in the third world, wars of aggressions, etc. I will say that one of the big reasons leftism appeals to me is that on the whole it's a more empirically based philosophy. One can blovate about the "free market" producing utopia until the cows come home but if the actual outcome is tremendous inequality, suffering, and environmental destruction then perhaps there is a flaw that is not captured in the idealistic model of "the market?"
Tired of all the isms, don't exploit people as an employer, or a government, mmmmK?
On the other hand, I haven't seen many politicans that I would call conservative. Seems like they love big government programs, spend like mad, wars of aggression, pork everywhere, dictating to their citizens what they can and cannot do, lots of new takes and fees, and stuff like that. They may lean to the right, but I wouldn't call the right conservative by any means.
Don't you mean you wouldn't consider them Liberal, Classical Liberal? It was the Liberals who wanted small government.
FalconShould there be a Law?
From a formal economic/political definition "liberal" is actually Laissez-faire, pro-big business, free-trade, etc;
Actually Liberals, while laissez faire, and pro freetrade, were not pro big business. Liberals were most concerned with liberty thus "Liberal". And they wouldn't of given anybody a monopoly on anything, be it a "Right of Way" monopoly for cable, phone, or power companies to lay down cable or fiber; or a monopoly on patents. Heck Liberals in general did not accept patents. I say general because some did accept them eventually. Thomas Jefferson was one, at first he was against patents and copyrights, but after discussing it with his friend James Madison he changed his mind. Madison convinced him patents will help more than hinder progress.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Hey, lots of us realized this and understood back in the 1950s, when President Eisenhower warned us about the growing power of the "military-industrial complex". And we've been pointing it out publicly ever since then, whenever there's an opportunity.
The thing is is even though Eisenhower warned of the military industrial complex he actully made it stronger by building up the conflict in Viet Nam.
FalconShould there be a Law?
Well, not so secret! James Bond broke into one of their vaults in Kuala Lumpur, and walked off with Billions and Billions back at the turn of the false century.
SWIFT (not Swift) is the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWIFT, and while headquartered in Belgium, its network SWIFTnet is, I believe, run out of Culpeper, VA. U.S.A., and their technology center is in nearby Manassas, VA. http://www.swift.com/