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Apple Cuts Off Linux iPod Users
Will Fisher writes "New iPods will no longer be able to work with Linux. iTunes now writes some kind of hash (SHA1, md5?) to the iPod database which new iPods check against. If this check fails then the iPod reports that it contains 0 songs. This appears to be protection against 3rd party applications writing out their own databases. We haven't found out how to generate our own valid hashes (but we do know the hash includes the database itself, and possibly the iPod serial number), and are looking for help."
...installing linux on the new iPod is out of the question?
I've heard this is the best way to make a good hash.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
They should talk to the GAIM^WPidgin developers. I've heard that they have a wee bit of experience in reverse-engineering hashes transmitted over a network.
My blog
My old 5 gb iPod just jumped in value.
Not that I'd sell it.
I thought Apple had embraced open source
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
Because I expect the Linux community to have one on my desk by Monday. Companies drive me crazy when they do this, I mean punishing someone whose a potential consumer of your product makes so much sense... yeesh. It's not like they're trying to hack the iTunes DRM - they just want to use a legitimate product they've purchased...
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
I heard cannabis brownies were the way to go.
Does this also mean that new iPods will only work with iTunes and not with superior media management apps?
I give the community one month from release to working hack or workaround. Actually, I think that may be too long.
Let's take up a pool for how long Apple's "protection" lasts. Anyone else predict something different?
First, I applaud your determination to uphold the implied freedom to do what one will (within reason, of course) with something that someone owns.
However, if you are in the USA you are running the risk of Apple invoking the DMCA.
I hope they don't. I hope you succeed. I firmly believe from a technical standpoint it can be done. My concern is the legal ramifications.
Application is using a non-public interface to access functionality... Vendor changes said non-public interface... Community is SHOCKED! WTF?
so .. tell me again why I should buy an ipod? because its the hippest device on earth?
Just use Rockbox then. It's an open-source firmware replacement. Though it may not run on the newest generation of iPods yet... http://rockbox.org/
I just hate iTunes. I know other people like it, but it seems to me that non-tech people find iTunes easy, and tech folks don't. As a tech guy, iTunes drives me insane. It doesn't do what I want, doesn't do things my way, does things I don't expect, etc.
Trying to make gtkpod work, I've borked my 2nd gen iPod nano. Starting from scratch, I could files make show up but not play. I had the brilliant idea and update to the latest firmware, hoping it was an issue with it. Now I can't make anything at all show up unless it's added with iTunes. Coincidence?
There are plenty of good mp3 players that will work beautifully with linux and sources for mp3s other than Apple's Itunes.
I'd like to see some legal type make the case that Apple has a monopoly on portable music players, and that this is an illegally anticompetitive action.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Linux can't use it? Install Linux on it. Since their protection is embedded in the iPod OS, it should be easily fixed by installing Linux on the iPod itself. Suddenly your iPod can do more, and is not bound to Windows/Mac anymore. And did I mention that it is free?
Apple is hostile to Linux, because it is beginning to compete with OS X in a much more serious way than Windows.
It all started last year when with the release of iTunes 7, Apple purposely broke DAAP, ending the compatibility of their iTunes software with various media players. Now rhythmbox/amaroK/banshee users can't listen to iTunes shares, and no one has yet been able to break the hash that would allow it.
So it comes as no surprise that the iPod is being further locked down. The closer our desktops get in usability to OS X (and they are not close yet, but making progress), the more of this we'll see.
Disclaimer: I use an OS X desktop and a Linux laptop.
What is going on with Apple?
Let us count how bad this product launch is:
1) 33% price cut for the iPhone, which threw early adopters in a fit, and then the $100 "rebate".
2) iPod touch is crippled. The Bluetooth is physically there (supposedly) but not enabled. No editing calender appointments. No Notes app or the other apps from iPhone. Screen issues with the contrast & blackness versus the iPhone.
3) iPod Classic, slower less responsive UI. Old Video accessories don't work with the iClassic.
4) iPod Nano, the FatPod. Same slower UI as the Classic. No memory increase.
Seriously, in 10 days Apple seems to have found a way to piss everyone off. Now they go after the Linux community. How badly have they bungled this product launch?
1) As a non-iPhone owner or wanter, the brew-ha-ha over the $200 price cut irritates me not because of the price cut but the reaction is such that you better believe Apple won't ever make similar price cuts in the future.
Plus you know a 16GB iPhone will come out as soon as the iPhone is released in Europe.
2) Once again, the iTouch will be jailbreaked and the iPhone apps ported to the iTouch, but this type of needless product differentiation crippling cause bad will. And, this hacking may break whenever Apple releases a firmware update. For example, the Linux lock-out of this story.
Apple could have just given people the product they want in the first place. As the screams of people have shown, there is a market for a phoneless iPhone.
The screen issues are unfixable but possibly explained by manufacturing variables.
3) The iClassic is the least changed and therefore least disliked of the new products. The software (DRM) incompatibility with video accessories is unnecessary.
4) Now the FatPod is merely ugly. It is a shame about the less responsive UI. And really it was time to bump up the storage to 16gb. One wonders if the storage was capped at 8Gb in an attempt to differentiate this versus the iTouch. After all if they are needlessly crippling the iTouch why not nerf the FatPod?
Is it just hurbis that has gotten Apple's head so far up its ass, or is this just a cyclical Apple implosion? If the latter, we are in for a few more years of Apple stupidity before they re-emerge with some new wonder product.
If you're using only Linux, then you're not using iTunes, and unless you have a some separate access to a computer with iTunes you're not using ITMS. So why use the proprietary database format of iTunes at all? Just use rockbox and treat your iPod like what it is, a mass storage device. Easier manage your files that way anyway. Headline really should read Apple Cuts Off ITMS From Potential Users.
The thing you're missing is that Apple executives did not sit down and decide to make things hard for Linux users. Probably they sat down and looked for a way to stop MS from making WMP work with the iPod, since, MS uses similar lock in strategies against them in other markets every day. They were probably considering Sony and maybe Real. They may or may not have considered Linux at all and if they did they probably decided there were so few Linux users that the impact would not be as bad as letting MS leverage their monopolies to push Apple out of markets while not taking every effort to leverage their own near monopoly.
Normally I'd object pretty strongly to any sort of enforced tie ins like this, but when competing against MS and while it is clear the Justice department will do nothing to stop their abuses, Apple and all other companies competing with them are in a very bad spot. Two wrongs don't make a right, but anything that stops MS from becoming the sole gatekeeper for DRM and all media within the next decade sounds like something we really, really need. And make no mistake, if not for Apple's iPod and Apple leveraging it, WMP would be the format for almost all legal music on the internet and MS would be taking a cut of it and preparing to stop said music from playing on Linux and other OS's altogether
Also, I don't own an iPod and am pretty sure there will be a work around in short order.
I think rockbox will overcome this, because the check for the hash is done in the default firmware, which rockbox replaces.
I know that the article says this affects Rockbox, but I'm unsure as to how? Rockbox replaces the iPod software with new software. It replaces the iPod song database with its own. The hash should be meaningless to it. Of course, Rockbox doesn't yet run on the new iPods, so the point is moot right now.
Jack Valenti and Orrin Hatch will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
iTunes sucks. I have an iPod 160 and my library has 11,000 songs (and there are folks out there with 50,000+). I'm on Windows XP SP2 on a fast box with 2GB memory and USB 2.0. iTunes is entirely unscalable. It is very slow to do anything with my library, even with manual sync. Adding one song to the iPod is a 5-minute process. File transfer speed is not the problem. For sure iTunes wastes time doing unnecessary work. Ejecting the iPod alone takes over a minute. Also, the iTunes MP3 player is buggy. It has trouble with MP3/VBR and generates clicking in the audio output. MediaMonkey is a much better content organizer. It is very fast. But the Apple's file format change on the iPod Classic means the current version of MM can't handle the iPod filesystem. I hope the MM developers will have the problem solved soon.
Birth is the leading cause of death.
If they DMCA'd your site, you'd have even more against them. Especially if you publish the formula/code for the crack/cipher , there's not a lot you can do.
I just emailed Apple a few days ago asking for a Linux version of iTunes. No wonder I didn't hear back from them.
Putting in cryptographic hashes isn't just "breaking the interface". It's called locking down the entire bloody thing and making life miserable for anybody trying to reverse engineer it.
Granted, Apple is well within its rights to do such a thing, but it's bad PR. People are starting to warm up to the idea that once you buy something, you should be able to use it however you like (since you BOUGHT it). Apple has no obligation to support 3rd party software, but neither are they obligated to break 3rd party software. Without any other explanation, it looks like it was a deliberate attempt to lock out non-Apple software. And that's why people are upset - it's the same reason DRM riles so many people.
This revolutionary new tool allows any audio device with a 3.5mm stereo output jack to dock with any other audio device with a 3.5mm stereo input jack.
This move isn't about blocking Linux iPod users - it's broader than that - it blocks all third-party applications from putting music onto the iPod. The fact that some of those applications run on Linux is probably irrelevant to Apple, because Linux users who don't also have a PC or Mac are probably a very small percentage of Apple's potential sales.
So, why would Apple want to block third-party apps from writing to iPods? Let's speculate:
- Apple might be getting customer support calls from people who corrupt their iPod databases. So by blocking third-party apps, Apple is reducing support costs.
- Apple is about to make major changes to iTunes, and to the iPod database format, and needs to keep third-party apps from corrupting the new databases.
- Apple wants to be the only way that music gets on iPods for some business reason.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
So what did you encode with? Ogg or WMA?
- oZ
// i am here.
Liberty you never use is liberty you lose.
MP3 players were out long before the iPod ever came around, but nobody really cared. To the extent that people did listen to music, they'd just keep doing it on a walk/discman or the like. An MP3 player was just a new gadget that only some cared about. Well, Apple changed that, they sold the style, they made it cool. It became a fashion accessory. Sorority girls started to carry them not even because they cared about listening to music, but because it was fashionable to do so.
Apple convinced everyone that a music player was something you needed to have, and their's was the stylish one to get. As such, they managed to grab the majority of the market.
Well, once you've got something like that going, inertia will carry you a long way. People don't like change, once they get something that works for them they don't change it without reason. As such you get people sold on iPods and when they need a new player, they just go and get another one, they don't really look at alternates. It works for them, why change?
Finally you should know that individuality isn't something most hold in a high regard. Even most of the "non-conformist" types simply work real hard to conform with their given non-conformist group. It's rare to find people who simply don't give a shit and do their own thing regardless of society.
which proprietary format? AAC? (oops, not proprietary) MP3? (oops, not proprietary). AIFF? (oops, not proprietary) WAV? (oops, not proprietary).
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
They could just be for integrity checking. Maybe Apple doesn't want people using 3rd party utilities that screw up the iPods then having to get the calls from those users furious that the thing no longer works. That's one explanation. Maybe with all the executable stuff they offer now (games, which will probably increase) the iPod is so popular it is becoming a bigger target and they don't want "How your iPod can kill your computer... story at 11PM" plastered all over the TV. By not telling others how to do it (they have NEVER supported 3rd party programs in doing stuff with the iPod), they keep virus writers from circumventing the protection.
As for bad PR, bull. This will never be picked up by the mainstream media. 95% or more of iPod users will never hear this story or understand ore care about it even if they did.
I'd like to point out that they are not obliged not to break 3rd party stuff. If you are doing things that are not company sanctioned, you should just assume that any updates may break your stuff.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Say it with me: data base. data base. database. database.
IT'S NOT AN EXECUTABLE.
I'm well aware of the difference between a database and an executable. But, as we have seen all too many times, errors in programs all too often allow content which appears to be data to be executed as code. Look at any buffer overflow exploit.
Encrypting of the database shouldn't directly affect rockbox, but they've been encrypting the firmware too, and the hardware will not run unencrypted firmware. It's not only the extremely new iPods that rockbox won't run on. I got a 2nd gen nano for free that I would love to install rockbox on, but the encryption thing appears to be one of the reasons they don't have a version for it yet.
So it's not that the encryption of the database directly prevents rockbox. The encryption of the database prevents users from using Linux with the Apple firmware, and since they've been encrypting the firmware for a while, installing rockbox isn't likely to be an option anytime soon.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
AAC and MP3 are still proprietary, you know. They're standards, yes, but proprietary ones. In contrast, the Xiph formats (e.g. Vorbis, FLAC) are actually not proprietary.
The thing that makes a format proprietary or not is whether anyone is allowed to implement and/or use it without paying royalties, not how popular it is.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
.trl
It is a proprietary format for encoding troll posts.
Are you sure that's because iTunes doesn't support the format you used (which I find unlikely unless you ripped to WMA, which as other posters have pointed out was stupid to begin with)? I ask because the other (and more likely, in my opinion) possibility is that your wife has the "Copy files to iTunes Music folder when adding to library" and/or "Keep iTunes Music folder organized" options checked in her iTunes preferences. If you turn those off, it should (theoretically) work without having to make a copy.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Two points:
1) You're assuming that this change is intended purely to alienate Linux users. This change was probably made for some other reason, and alienating Linux users was a (possibly unintended) side-effect of it.
2) The iPod never claimed to carry any sort of support for Linux whatsoever. It seems to me that if you wanted to support Linux, you'd buy a product that actually supports Linux instead of one that doesn't-- and then complaining when the hack you're using to get it to work no longer works!
Comment of the year
This, along with Apple's change to the video out to render devices like Philip's DVD/iPod video player unable to play video from iPods is frustrating. It's a shame Apple has gone far from its roots as a company that encourages innovation around their products.
Philip's portable DVD/iPOD player is real neat - drop the iPod in the cradle on the device and watch video on a bigger screen.
Apple even sold similar devices in tehir stores - maybe they just want to extort money from companies that build such devices?
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
They've also made it currently impossible to use alternate OSes on the iPod by encrypting the firmware on the 2nd gen Nano and all subsequent iPods, which is a much more difficult obstacle to overcome. I'm surprised there isn't as much of an uproar about this on Slashdot.
The iPod became popular through clever marketing. Period. That is what Apple does well. Market.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
Apple is proof positive that MS is not a 100% monopoly. They have a small share of the market, to be sure, but they've had it for decades.
100% market share isn't required to be a monopoly. Apple has held their market share for decades because they are primarily a hardware distributor and provide the platform for their software. They also control their entire distribution channel (no oem deals needed). The loyal fanbase doesn't hurt either.
The anticompetitive tactics Microsoft has been convicted of in the past really don't affect that core market share. It probably did affect their ability to grow marketshare though.
So it would appear that you don't have to have a 100% market share to get slapped for laws relating to monopoly status.
Well, you have to be able to prove that they have enough control over the market that they can exert monopoly control of it. Having 72% of the market and having lots of competitors , and having new competitors enter the market fairly easily is not a monopoly.
In the absence of a monopoly, their actions with respect to iTunes store integration with the iPod and locking out 3rd parties isn't illegal.
Darth --
Nil Mortifi, Sine Lucre
I doubt that is the case. The file is not encrypted; it's just signed with a hash. You can still get the files off of the thing, and you can find out what they are from the database, which is still readable. It's just impossible to modify the iTunesDB with third-party software now (at least until this gets cracked, which shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks). I'm guessing the reason is either for database integrity, or as some part of FairPlay (maybe to keep people from copying DRMed content between iPods).
..and gained about a hundred in the time it took you to post this.
There's a sucker born every minute.
Microsoft says legacy (serial/parallel) ports are bad. They don't obfuscate the hardware enough.
*time to lose some karma* >>I'm surprised there isn't as much of an uproar about this on Slashdot.
I am not. When it comes to Apple, the fanatics will gang up on anybody complaining even a slight bit about Apple. They don't see the irony that Apple has become Microsoft of the DAP market. Force is very strong on them.
Back in the day we wouldn't get 5 years in prison for writing software to workaround intentional bugs added by the vendor to prop up their outdated and failing business model.
Now we do.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
I thought the iPod worked like any other USB drive - I don't need iTunes to put music on my thumb drive, I just mount it on the file system and transfer the files.
No, the iPod doesn't work this way. It keeps the files in a special part of the file system and even if you put the files there it needs special tools to make it work.
I don't understand why anyone using Linux would bother with an iPod. I found it a horribly frustrating MP3 player because of the annoying user interface and daft click wheel... AND it costs more! Why bother with it?
Yea i got one as a gift too... What a POS! Itunes totally took over all my file types, & I have yet to find a way to remove the damn thing completely (have to kill it from taskman on every boot, even though its been "uninstalled") What a fucking nightmare! The one saving grace was the hacked winamp plugin i found, but now thats blocked too?
Why does apple intentionally hamstring everything they make?
Anyway, i was actually quite relieved when the damn thing got stolen & i could go back to using my sandisk without the wife getting upset that i hated her gift.
This is just bizarre. I bought an iPhone 2 days ago. In 1 hour, I had it jailbroken, youtube fix run, unlocked, had a full bsd subsystem installed, and openssh running. I have full access to the filesystem, and I am, as I type this, setting up the toolchain to compile even more applications for it.
:(
The iphone dev team at iphone dev wiki are due most of the credit, but the fact remains that this iPhone is very hackable, and is looking to be my favorite mobile device. Now they're trying to encrypt the crap out of everthing.
Go fig.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
I didn't even know Apple had a Directory Access Protocol implementation that they were selling. That's... so... uh... X.500 of them.
They don't see the irony that Apple has become Microsoft of the DAP market.
They can have the Double Anal Penetration market, I want no part of it!
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Who didn't see this coming? Anyone trying to encode 640x480 h.264 videos for playback on the iPod/AppleTV certainly did, as they've left the format completely undocumented, require a stupid arbitrary UUID atom to be there or iTunes won't copy it to the player, and perhaps even worse, iTunes imposes other restrictions on the encoding options that hobble the quality, yet such files play fine on the iPod hardware, you are just forced to use a 3rd party app to copy such files over.
http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2006-September/015930.html
IMHO, everyone should load up the RockBox firmware on their iPods, and tell Apple to screw themselves and their proprietary lockout nonsense, before they try to stop people from upgrading their firmware, too. As an added bonus, you are then able to use higher quality and open/patent-free audio formats (Ogg Vorbis/MPC Musepack).
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
...that Apple did it because they were stupid, not malicious.
Apple isn't stupid. You can bet that this move was carefully considered and motivated by the bottom line. I agree that they probably aren't concerned that much with locking out Linux users, but you can bet that they are concerned about free tools that access the contest of the device.
There was nothing sick about GP's comment. It was just plain funny. As for yourself - sounds like you are not a sick bastard at all, in fact wimpy dork is the term that comes to mind.
Dozens of others play music just as well (or better). Why this insane fixation of Apple? Why do you all have to have iPods, and hack them, and curse with them, and endlessly whine about their lousiness and proprietariness? It's just crazy. If it gives you problems, just throw it away and buy something decent instead.
Worry not, friend! Apple will fix this bug in the next iPhone revision.
Well. Get a used iPod 5 and / or install Rockbox. Death to proprietary crap!
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
I have a better idea. How about you just stop buying Apple products? These days, I would take MS over Apple any day of the week. Even better, I can pick neither one of them and rest easy at night. Going to the Apple world is like entering someone's personal fiefdom. Sure, Apple might not control the entire market, but once you step into the Apple world they control just about every single aspect of that world. If you want a single company in control of all of your electronics, go with Apple and get your iBook, iPhone, iTunes, and iPod. Your products will certainly play nice with each other, even if they don't play nice with anyone else. If nothing else, you will easily fall into the shiny white plastic aesthetic of Apple and find that Apple marketers will work tirelessly to make you feel cool for doing it. That said, I feel that I can survive without a team of marketers making sure that my gadgets make me feel cool.
I'll take the chaos and diversity of the city over Apple's quiet little aesthetically pleasing, shiny white, gated suburban community.