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Super Smash Bros. Brawl Delayed

Dr. Eggman writes "As feared when it was announced that the Japanese launch was being pushed back to January 24, Nintendo has announced that Super Smash Bros. Brawl has been delayed in North America as well. 1up.com cites the new launch date as February 10th. On the bright side, however, 16-bit era fan's prayers have been answered: Sonic the Hedgehog is officially in the game."

142 comments

  1. 16-bit era fan's prayers... by Tetsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently there's just one fan of the 16-bit era??

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    Bow-ties are cool.
    1. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by CRiMSON · · Score: 1

      8bit4life!

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      oogly boogly!
    2. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by Detaer · · Score: 1

      It also seems as though this one person has their own era.

    3. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by sgant · · Score: 1

      Actually, my son was very happy that Sonic is now included. He's a big fan of Sonic.

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      "Leo Fender was in a 'state of grace' when he designed the Stratocaster." -- Paul Reed Smith
    4. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by kerohazel · · Score: 1

      Apparently there's just one fan of the 16-bit era?? Not only that, but since "16 bit fan" wasn't preceded by any article - definite or indefinite - we can only assume it's someone's name. And the only thing upsetting about that is that some bastard beat me to it.
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      Skype is too convoluted... Now I'm reverse-engineering the Kyoto Protocol.
    5. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by Tetsujin · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, my son was very happy that Sonic is now included. He's a big fan of Sonic. I guess we found out who the 16-bit era fan is, then...
      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    6. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As opposed to the article submitter, who himself goes by the name "Dr. Eggman?" Unless, of course the submitter is the gp's son...

    7. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by EggyToast · · Score: 2, Funny

      Me too. They've got good burgers.

    8. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by Alistar · · Score: 1

      I always got the impression that Dr. Eggman didn't like Sonic very much. Having your attempts at world domination thwarted all the time tends to put a damper on any relationships.

    9. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by steveo777 · · Score: 1

      Probably just a /. UID. I hope the poor guy (or girl) logs on while this is still on the games page.

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      This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
    10. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      I always got the impression that Dr. Eggman didn't like Sonic very much.

      Having your attempts at world domination thwarted all the time tends to put a damper on any relationships. That's true... In fact, every time I've seen those two meet up, they've tried to kill each other. In fact, I've seen Dr. Eggman actually succeed at killing Sonic a number of times...
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      Bow-ties are cool.
    11. Re:16-bit era fan's prayers... by aichpvee · · Score: 1

      Forget Sonic! What Sega fans really want can be summed up in two words: Segata Sanshiro?

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      The Farewell Tour II
  2. It's upsetting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But I'd really rather prefer a late game to a bugged game.

    1. Re:It's upsetting by Ant+P. · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      You should be grateful you only have to choose one or the other. I live in Europe.

    2. Re:It's upsetting by WidescreenFreak · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It's amazing how many people bitch and moan about delaying a game that they're expecting without giving any consideration as to why that game is going to be delayed. It's just as amazing how many game companies seem to think that delaying a game is like some kind of suicide call. I'd much rather wait for a game to come out and work as it should instead of getting an unplayable product rushed to market just to match a deadline (eg: Ultima: Ascension).

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      The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
    3. Re:It's upsetting by moderatorrater · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's amazing how many people bitch and moan about delaying a game that they're expecting without giving any consideration as to why that game is going to be delayed While there's usually a good reason (in the case of Smash Bros. it's going to be really, really good to miss the holiday season), it's always disappointing that the developer wasn't able to more accurately estimate the amount of time the game would require. Yes, i would rather wait longer than I expected for a good game; at the same time, I would have rather had them wait another month before giving a release date and have that release date be accurate.
    4. Re:It's upsetting by shoptroll · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Name me a software product that has ever shipped on time. By on time I mean the original planned release date.

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      Insert Sig Here
    5. Re:It's upsetting by trdrstv · · Score: 2, Funny

      Name me a software product that has ever shipped on time. By on time I mean the original planned release date.

      Duke Nukem Forever. Release date: "When it's done."

    6. Re:It's upsetting by shoptroll · · Score: 1

      Touche. Jolly good show old chap.

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      Insert Sig Here
    7. Re:It's upsetting by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      More like name me a Nintendo release the shipped on time, or even the 3rd or 4th release date.

    8. Re:It's upsetting by shoptroll · · Score: 1

      Or a Konami, Square-Enix, Blizzard, id, Valve game while you're at it?

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      Insert Sig Here
    9. Re:It's upsetting by TriezGamer · · Score: 1

      Except that it hasn't shipped on time, since it hasn't shipped.

    10. Re:It's upsetting by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      We're talking about a game where you win by knocking an opponent off of the screen. Dr. Freeman would be an auto-win with the gravity gun.

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      My sig can beat up your sig.
    11. Re:It's upsetting by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      Never mind; lack of sleep made me mis-read the thread... Carry on.

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      My sig can beat up your sig.
  3. Good news by Sciros · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That should give me plenty of time to finish Mass Effect and Revenant Wings before beginning a Wii hunt to play Smash.

    Can't care less about Sonic, though. Just hope he's not a broken character, since in Smash speed is paramount (hence space animals and Sheik being top tier).

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    I like basketball!!1!
    1. Re:Good news by revlayle · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out the video below the character info on that page link to smash bros. site, it show's sonic's moves pretty well, and decently utilized

    2. Re:Good news by edwdig · · Score: 2, Informative

      The supposed character tiers in Smash Bros are a pretty stupid idea. They come from tournament play where matches are limited to 1 vs 1 and the rules are set to eliminate as much randomness as possible. Items get turned off and a large chunk of the stages aren't allowed.

      It's basically trying to turn Smash Bros into Street Fighter and isn't at all representative of how the game is normally played.

    3. Re:Good news by Hitto · · Score: 3, Funny

      No items
      Fox only
      Final Destination

    4. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're just trying to legitimize it as a fighting game when everyone except rabid SSB fans know that it is not a fighting game. Don't get me wrong I love the game, but its not a fighting game.

    5. Re:Good news by Krakhan · · Score: 1

      It's not one in the traditional sense of KOing an opponent, but if it's not a fighting game, what is it then?

    6. Re:Good news by edwdig · · Score: 1

      I think you're close on your idea. Except it's the rabid fighting game fans trying to justify why they like SSB. Kinda like the diehard RPG fans calling Zelda an RPG to justify liking it...

      Most SSB fans realize there isn't really a good genre to put the game into, although fighting is probably the closest.

    7. Re:Good news by Workaphobia · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A fun game. It's not based on raw skill and straightforward proper-sequence button mashing. There's some strategy, prediction, knowing your opponent, and moments when all that goes to hell because the other guy got a star, heart, and hammer at the same time. Tournament players don't know what smash is because they're too busy studying how to break it rather than have fun.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    8. Re:Good news by carou · · Score: 3, Funny

      No items
      Fox only
      Lame.
    9. Re:Good news by cowscows · · Score: 1

      It's the most fun with 4 people fighting. The chaos and unpredictability of it all is what really makes it work.

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      One time I threw a brick at a duck.

    10. Re:Good news by Krakhan · · Score: 1

      I'd say it works more as a hybrid fighting/party game. Of course, it's also not a fighting game in the traditional sense, but definitely one nonetheless. Hence, why I asked the question of how one would classify it.

    11. Re:Good news by Sciros · · Score: 1

      Well one of the awesome things about Smash is you CAN play it as a "purist fighter" if you want to! The "usual" Smash setup is good fun for a while, but playing the game competitively in the controlled tournament environment is a good way to extend the game's lifespan (SSBM has been around without a sequel for quite some time, after all) because it lets you learn new techniques, strategies, etc. that really just don't have practical applications in the "party" setup of something like 4-player FFA with items on.

      It's not rabid fighting game fans trying to justify anything. You've probably never met someone who played much Smash in the tourney scene. Well, I have, and I'm not a rabid fighter fan. Just a gamer who likes all sorts of games and finds ways to enjoy them in as many ways as I care to ^^

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      I like basketball!!1!
    12. Re:Good news by Sciros · · Score: 1

      Smash lends itself surprisingly well to tournament play. You'd be surprised. "Tiers" notwithstanding, skill (technical and mind-games) goes a VERY long way, and the usual tourney setup is very good fun. There's nothing bad about fighting games, after all, and Smash under certain settings becomes a very good one. It's a testament to the game's great customizeability. If I want to play a 4-player free-for-all match where I am having fun with people who've never even touched a GCN controller before, I can. If I want to play an intense 1v1 (or, far more fun IMO, 2v2) match against some highly skilled folks, I can do that as well ^_^

      Also, the "tournament setup" is VERY representative of how the game is played by a lot more people than you'd think. Just check out smashboards.com or something and that should give you some idea. The game is even hosted by MLGPro along with Halo for some good prizes, so it's a very legit competitive game.

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      I like basketball!!1!
    13. Re:Good news by Altus · · Score: 2, Interesting


      Arguably, it is in its own genre.

      Much like Mario Kart isn't really a racing game SSB is not really a fighting game. MK is a Kart game (and there are plenty of others) and SSB is a... lets call it a Brawler. The only difference I can see is that, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't any other games like SSB.

      SSB is a fighting game in the same sense that Mario Strikers is a soccer game.

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    14. Re:Good news by Sciros · · Score: 1

      Hehehehe

      Well if you're wondering, it's any character, usually 4-stock, no items, and 6 or so stages (Final Destination, Yoshi's Island, Kirby Dreamland 64, Fountain of Dreams, Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium). Sometimes a 10-min timer on top of that but I've never seen it run out. Oh, and best 2 out of 3 unless it's the finals where it's sometimes best of 5.

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      I like basketball!!1!
    15. Re:Good news by Sciros · · Score: 1

      Tournament players know what Smash is better than most. They've played the HECK out of Smash using its usual setups, and have simply discovered ways to play the game competitively that your casual players wouldn't have even thought of. They are the most dedicated, die-hard Smash Bros fans you'll ever meet. I can promise you that most of the folks in the Smash tournament scene would be very offended at what you wrote because it's so unbelievably inaccurate. The game *can* be based on raw skill under certain setups; that's how strong Smash's customizeability is! And yes, competition in a level playing field can be load of fun (Starcraft/Halo anyone?), especially after you've had the game since 2001.

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      I like basketball!!1!
    16. Re:Good news by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I hate it when people demand to play like that. I have friends who like to play no items, on Final Destination, and I refuse to play smash bros with them for the most part. The items, and the random crazy shit that happens, are what makes the game fun! Cut that out, and you cut the soul of the game out. Not to mention that Final Destination is entirely too trippy for my eyes.

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      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    17. Re:Good news by Alexandra+Erenhart · · Score: 1

      I love that, my friends and I used to spend hours, and hours, and hours just playing the game (N64 back then, then the GC version came around) and laughing. 4 players is the best setup.

    18. Re:Good news by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > "They've played the HECK out of Smash using its usual setups, and have simply discovered ways to play the game competitively that your casual players wouldn't have even thought of."
      True, but they also play the game competitively in ways that are obvious, yet I simply wouldn't do. Mostly this pertains to choice of characters.

      > "They are the most dedicated, die-hard Smash Bros fans you'll ever meet."
      For certain definitions of what Smash Bros is, yes. For the way I play, and what Smash Bros really means to me, they are the worst group of players.

      > "I can promise you that most of the folks in the Smash tournament scene would be very offended at what you wrote "
      Of that I have no delusions.

      > "because it's so unbelievably inaccurate. The game *can* be based on raw skill under certain setups; "
      That's not the point I was making. When I say it's *not* based on that, I mean that any situation under which chance (in the form of items) and asymmetry is not a factor, is not a proper instance of a Smash Bros game. I know you can take the Smash Bros title and play on final destination with sword characters and fox, and get a fairly even game out of that; but that is not Smash Bros.

      > "that's how strong Smash's customizeability is!"
      Agreed. I just wish there were more tournaments that required you play pichu or ness on the Ice Climber's level, so we could actually see some professional usage of that customizability, rather than finding the absolute minimum variance in options and playing the hell out of it.

      > "And yes, competition in a level playing field can be load of fun (Starcraft/Halo anyone?),
      I refuse to acknowledge Halo's existence. As for Starcraft, suppose that the races weren't as perfectly balanced as they are: would you condone the removal of all but one race, just to ensure balance via symmetry? Would you get rid of all maps that didn't have exactly the same resources, positioned in a manner that worked with the game engine to make sure that worker units had exactly the same opportunity to harvest them at a particular rate? At what point do you stop and say, "This isn't the game I bought, this isn't why I play it"?

      > "especially after you've had the game since 2001."
      Check.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    19. Re:Good news by Soiden · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think no one's wondering. No, that's a joke. I don't like the Past Stages very much. And I prefer 5-stock than 4.

      --
      Minti: What's that huge shuriken in your back?! Kin: It's the instrument of my victory.
    20. Re:Good news by xenocide2 · · Score: 1

      Why are 4 player free for alls and tournaments exclusive? One of the more interesting parts, I think, is the strategies that evolve in a 4 player game. It turns out to also be quite suitable for fun play.

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    21. Re:Good news by Sciros · · Score: 1

      Well, if I'm understanding you correctly, you don't like that the tournament scene is as restrictive as it is when it comes to setup. Well, besides the fact that nothing is stopping you from hosting a local tourney yourself with whatever rules you and those likely to attend agree on ^_^, I do want to make the point that tourney rules are so limiting because Smash has SO many stages and options and such. Most games don't have such customizeability to begin with, and so there is no sense of "missing out" on something when they are played competitively.

      Starcraft is a wonder of a game as far as balance goes, but it has taken a lot of patching to get to that stage and people played it competitively plenty before that. Smash isn't the most balanced game on the planet (few fighters are, to be honest; nearly every fighter I know of has "tiers" or "power rankings" of some kind), but because under certain setups your skill can really show through and very nearly make up for any imbalance that remains, people use those setups ^_^

      It all just reflects a desire many gamers have to "get good" at a game and to be able to test their skill against others. In Smash the tournament rules provide a good way of doing it.

      To say that "it's not Smash Bros" isn't really fair. What if you really enjoy playing 3-player Coin Battle with 5-min timer on Poke Floats all the time? Someone would have to be a jerk to tell you "that's not Smash Bros! play stock with all items except Heart Container, Tomato, and Hammer on! THAT's Smash Bros!" To say nothing of the other modes, like Homerun Contest.

      I'm not saying playing Smash with MLG rules is the "right" way to play it, but I find it a fun way to play it and I appreciate that the game gives me the chance to enjoy it in that fashion.

      I spoke in person to Reggie Fils-Aime, Satoru Iwata, George Harrison, and even Shigeru Miyamoto (though he seemed not quite as interested, heh) about the Smash Bros tournament scene back in 2005 when it was growing and gaining a strong online community and they were at the least intrigued, and certainly understood that there was a strong fanbase for the game that played it "seriously." Nintendo Power had just changed looks then, and shortly thereafter even featured a story about smashboards.com (where most of the tournament community goes to organize get-togethers, discuss strategy, get to know each other, etc.). Speaking of which, Iwata told me back then that he was "trying to make the new Smash a release title for the Revolution," hehe. I guess we all knew it wasn't gonna happen.

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      I like basketball!!1!
    22. Re:Good news by MMaestro · · Score: 1

      While I agree that tournament rules are pretty stupid for the masses, but it REALLY shows when you play against more experienced players. Hyrule Temple is obviously unfair for tournament matches cause of the underground area. The F-Zero arenas are pretty questionable since the arenas themselves can be more hazardous than the other opponents. Stages like Kirby Dreamland effectively handicaps or gives an advantage to certain characters (using Jigglypuff's rollout is suicidal there and Bowser's fire attack pretty much covers half the ground platform). The list goes on.

    23. Re:Good news by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I hear this arguement a lot, and I disagree. Hardly anything in Smash is random to the extent that it becomes simply a game of chance. The items are random, yes, but you still have to use them properly, and there are ALWAYS ways of negating the use of them, but it just requires skill to do so. Smash is just as much about talent as any other game, once you become advanced enough, noone at a lower level can ever defeat you, no matter how lucky they are. This arguement is usually made by people who aren't advanced enough to know better, and it really pisses me off. Soul Calliber and Takken are no more about skill than Smash is. In fact, in my experience Soul Calliber proved to be completely random. I can't play fighting games in the slightest, but a bunch of guys who did, brought down Soul Calliber, and I beat the shit out of them, without knowing what I was doing. That could never happen in Smash.

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      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    24. Re:Good news by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Well, the problem is that "Brawler" is already a genre that is nothing like SSB. Brawlers are like Double Dragon, Bad Dudes, and more recently, God Hand. They're basically games that use fighting game style gameplay, while they progress through platformer/shooter-like levels. The adventure mode in SSB is basically that, but the rest of the game is not.

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      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    25. Re:Good news by j0nb0y · · Score: 1

      It's difficult to prevent collusion when more than two people are supposed to be playing a game "free for all." How can you tell if a team up is prearranged or spur-of-the-moment for mutual advantage? You can't, in many cases. People who play games competitively are wary of free-for-all tournaments in *any* game.

      One of the big exceptions to this is poker tournaments. Poker is very susceptible to collusion attacks, but many players are willing to overlook this to play in tournaments. There are many allegations of collusion in major tournaments, but most of them are backed up with little or no proof.

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      If you had super powers, would you use them for good, or for awesome?
    26. Re:Good news by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      Er.. I'm not sure where you're disagreeing with me. I never implied that your performance in smash is not a function of skill. I was arguing that the smash experience is about skill mingling with chance, and especially one's skill in effectively using items. Anyone who plays smash exclusively without items does not understand the point of the game.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    27. Re:Good news by Altus · · Score: 1


      Fair enough, I haven't thought about Double Dragon for so long the genre had slipped my mind.

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      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

  4. Missing the Holidays by SlashdotOgre · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't believe they're allowing that game to slip past the holiday season. I'm sure the Wii will still sell out, but that's a major title that a lot of people were expecting. I wonder whether this was caused by development issues or to boost their sales numbers in the retail slump between Christmas & Easter. On a side note the article lists a 2/10 US release date (only mentioning it since it's not in the summary).

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    1. Re:Missing the Holidays by Javi0084 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nintendo has Mario Galaxy for Christmas, that will probably sell out too.

    2. Re:Missing the Holidays by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you sure about that?

    3. Re:Missing the Holidays by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

      I'd rather it work right than be released before Christmas.

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      Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
    4. Re:Missing the Holidays by shoptroll · · Score: 1

      Not a big deal. They have Mario Galaxy in mid/late-November and that should keep people pretty happy for a while. Right now the only big title for the start of the new year is Mario Kart Wii, so this new release date will give them some extra momentum for the 1st quarter.

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      Insert Sig Here
    5. Re:Missing the Holidays by Altus · · Score: 1


      like you need more momentum than what Kart brings.

      I don't have any hard numbers but it sure looks to me like the Kart franchise is the biggest one Nintendo has.

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      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    6. Re:Missing the Holidays by aztektum · · Score: 1
      Hitting a release date over the holidays means squat to me personally. I don't have time to sit and play the 15 games I would like all within one month anyway, especially over the holiday season. That only works out for the kids who are off from school. I'd rather they not release a turd and get it out "when it's done." So even if they are doing it to boost "after holidays sales", I say who cares.

      On a side note, the summary did mention the release date...

      1up.com cites the new launch date as February 10th.
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    7. Re:Missing the Holidays by Soiden · · Score: 1

      I think that they actually are doing this to not destroy Galaxy's release. Less than a month after Galaxy, is Brawl, and they need to give Galaxy more time to sell well. Consider Mario Kart Wii, it will be released in April, 2 months after Brawl. I'm guessing they'll delay that one too, but not too much, to give Brawl some time to sell.

      --
      Minti: What's that huge shuriken in your back?! Kin: It's the instrument of my victory.
    8. Re:Missing the Holidays by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1

      I don't have any hard numbers but it sure looks to me like the Kart franchise is the biggest one Nintendo has. No, Smash is. At least it was the best seller on the Gamecube, followed by Mario Sunshine.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
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    9. Re:Missing the Holidays by Altus · · Score: 1


      well I was thinking about it more in terms of the whole line of MK games. In each generation the Mario kart games are top performers. Clearly SSB is right up there too though. Honestly it might be better for Wii sales to have them spread out a bit release date wise. Both of these games (as well as Mario Galaxy) are going to put a pretty big strain on the supply of Wii's.

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      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    10. Re:Missing the Holidays by Bloomy · · Score: 1

      No, Pokemon currently is.

    11. Re:Missing the Holidays by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I agree, I don't think this has anything to do with completion. People like to use the excuse, "but this will give them time to polish", but that's just a happy excuse. The real reason is because of marketing. The game's been finished now for a few months, which is my guess (and seems to be the case from the reports I'm hearing), the push back is likely purely for marketting reasons.

      So, before you start making this into a possitive thing about improving quality, let's be relistic here, the game's being pushed back for reasons other than the ones that will make you happy. Just deal with it, and move on.

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      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  5. Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by kisrael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is it "The Pokemon Trainer" and not "Ash"?

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    SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    1. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by PlatyPaul · · Score: 1

      Because that's the character's name. Yes, it does look like Ash, but they're not saying that it is.

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    2. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by shoptroll · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ash was the name for the character in the anime. The default name for the character in the game is whatever color Pokemon cartridge you have.

      I don't know about you but choosing "Red" as my character sure sounds like a winner ;)

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    3. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Right, but why?

      It smacks of an odd rights and character ownership issue, or maybe even Voice Acting...

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      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    4. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by Turn-X+Alphonse · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because that's the Male character from Pokemon Fire Red and Satoshi/Ash does not look like that? Pokemon If anything that is "Fire red" as the Pokemon naming system goes from the comics.

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      I like muppets.
    5. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no 'ownership issue'. The Pokémon Trainer is based on the character in the VIDEO GAME, not the cartoon. You are supposed to enter the trainer's name in the Pokémon games! Besides, PT does not look like Ash Ketchum from the show anyway. Furthermore, The Pokémon Company is owned by Nintendo, so Nintendo can call the trainer whatever it wants.

    6. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Of which it's not, because Nintendo owns all the rights in question here.

      It's because that Pokemon Trainer is based off of the Pokemon games, not the cartoon. None of the games call the main character Ash, that was an invention of the group who did the anime/manga. Having never watched any of the anime, and having seen a few of the games, the name Ash means nothing to me, Pokemon Trainer does.

      Remember, Nintendo said that no characters from animes will be introduced in Brawl. Ash is an anime character that's never been in a game.

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      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    7. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by kisrael · · Score: 1

      Ok, I see your point...
      are the sound and movements of "the Pokemon Trainer" defined in any of the later console games, or will they be derived fresh for the brawl?

      Also, just a technical question, did Ash get retroconned into one of the gameboy remakes, or just Pikachu?

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    8. Re:Why "The Pokemon Trainer" by insane_coder · · Score: 1

      Pikachu was in the original Pokemon games as Pokemon #25, it wasn't invented by the TV show.

      Although Pokemon Yellow which tried to follow the TV show a bit more started one off with Pikachu which followed the trainer, as opposed to choosing from Bulbasaur, Squirtle, and Charmander.

      Regarding 'Ash', Blue and Red each offered one to pick one of 3 default names (which were different for each), or enter your own. IIRC, Ash was the last default name on the Red cart. But by no means is 'Ash' viewed by the games as any significant name. In Pokemon Gold and Silver where they bring back the Hero from Blue/Red, they call him Red which was the first default name on the Red cart.

      --
      You can be an insane coder too, read: Insane Coding
  6. Sonic - not a rumor this time! by PlatyPaul · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In case you missed out on the press, Sonic was rumored for inclusion in Super Smash Bros. Melee (released for the Gamecube back in 2001-2002). Here is a quick rundown, with requisite pretty pictures.

    Actually, the intriguing bit is whether or not it will be possible to have Sonic go Supersonic, a common theme in most Sonic games. To start the rumor mill going: the official Sonic-in-Smash-Bros. trailer ends with a quick glimpse at him in Supersonic mode....

    --
    Misery loves company. Online misery loves unsuspecting random strangers.
    1. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by DelitaTheFridge · · Score: 1

      If you look closer, you can see that there are 14 emeralds, not 7, and 7 of them are bigger than the other 7. This indicates that he is indeed going Hypersonic, not just Supersonic.

    2. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by the+dark+hero · · Score: 3, Informative

      Rumor mill? Psh. I'll bet my wii that its gonna be a final smash.

      --
      You constantly struggle for self improvement - and it shows.

      Hooray for bad Engrish on fortune cookies

    3. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      It's pretty much a given since some other characters get transformations as their final smashes.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    4. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by Kilraven · · Score: 1

      Does this mean Sonic finally gets to beat Mario in something? Since sales are out of the question.

      --
      I didn't want to leave this blank.
    5. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by rootofevil · · Score: 1

      oooo sick burn!

      --
      turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie
    6. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by PlatyPaul · · Score: 1

      Otherwise, we'll have to wait for The Olympics....

      --
      Misery loves company. Online misery loves unsuspecting random strangers.
    7. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      Oh, please, that game is a TRAVESTY. Any game where Mario can contend with Sonic in the speed department is just plain STUPID.

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    8. Re:Sonic - not a rumor this time! by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      I think there's NO question here, in the final scene of the Sonic video that was released yesterday, Sonic turns into Super Sonic. The only gameplay reason for this occuring in Brawl is a final Smash. All the special movies have been announced too. No, they haven't OFFICIALLY announced it, but there's no other explanation.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  7. Success? by Fex303 · · Score: 4, Funny
    From the article:

    The delay "in no way affects the success of the Wii," said George Harrison, Nintendo's Senior VP of Marketing and Corporate Communication.
    It doesn't affect the success of the Wii as a paperweight, no. But I was actually hoping to play some fucking games on mine.

    Also, I can't help but notice that the old release date announcement has been quietly taken off the official Smash Bros site.

    1. Re:Success? by trdrstv · · Score: 1

      It doesn't affect the success of the Wii as a paperweight, no. But I was actually hoping to play some fucking games on mine.

      Beat Metroid Prime 3 yet? If not, the game's extremely good and well worth buying.

    2. Re:Success? by MooseMuffin · · Score: 1

      Hey we still have Mario Galaxy this year, along with...umm...yea.

    3. Re:Success? by pokerdad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Also, I can't help but notice that the old release date announcement has been quietly taken off the official Smash Bros site.

      Yeah I hate it when inaccurate information is taken off of websites to prevent confusion.

    4. Re:Success? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still waiting for someone to blame this on Sony/rootkits/Blu-Ray...

    5. Re:Success? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm still waiting for someone to blame this on Sony/rootkits/Blu-Ray.


      Nah, its all Epic's fault for focusing on Gears of War.
    6. Re:Success? by Fex303 · · Score: 1

      Yeah I hate it when inaccurate information is taken off of websites to prevent confusion.
      My point was there was no announcement that the date had changed, they simply took away the announcement. It would have been nice for there to some sort of acknowledgment that they've had to change the date.
    7. Re:Success? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Even better than the original. (The 2nd was good, but not great.)

    8. Re:Success? by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      But yes, we've all beaten it, I beat it a week after it came out... and it's not quite good enough to start again right after beating it, like the original Metroid Prime was. It was far better than MP2, but it's going to be difficult for Nintendo or Retro to ever top MP1.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
  8. It's no surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet 90% of the people expecting this game saw this coming, so it's no big surprise. And about Sonic, I'm sure that only 16bit fans expect it; I mean, I don't think current Sonic games have even one fan >.>'

  9. Re:It's not upsetting by trdrstv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But I'd really rather prefer a late game to a bugged game.

    Not only that, but I wouldn't mind if they spaced out their "tent pole" games through out the year, and not just the 3-4 months at the end. I realize Quarter 4 is when they do most of their business, but games like Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Halo, Final Fantasy, MGS... don't need to come out for Christmas to sell. They will sell in the millions no matter when they release, so why not spread them out a little more?

  10. Network Play polish by Alzheimers · · Score: 1

    If they use the extra time to polish up and make the Network Play as solid as possible, then the delay is more than worth it. If they decide at the end that they just can't make it work, or use some pathetic matching system like buddy codes it'll be a huge blow to anyone who believed the Wii was a legitimate online multiplayer platform.

    1. Re:Network Play polish by arcmay · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If they add voice chat and some kind of persistent leaderboard for online play, nobody is going to complain about waiting until February. Nobody.

    2. Re:Network Play polish by justinmikehunt · · Score: 0

      Well as it is now, in order to keep stats and whatnot when playing, you have to have exchanged friend codes with whom you're playing... You can play against random people, but never see their name, can't talk to them, and no stats are tracked. So for all you know, it may still be the computer ;-) Ign for more info

    3. Re:Network Play polish by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Not happening. Nintendo still has the "for kids" image so they are afraid of doing something that could make the "think of the children" crowd turn against them.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    4. Re:Network Play polish by corky842 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there's no chance of a game like Resident Evil or Manhunt ending up on a Nintendo console. And everyone's complaining about the kiddies listening to the profanity when they play a game on Xbox Live.

    5. Re:Network Play polish by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Those aren't games made by Nintendo though. I doubt they'll enforce it on others but their own standard says "no talking with strangers".

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
    6. Re:Network Play polish by corky842 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I forgot about that. Oh well, maybe they'll put it in SSB4.

  11. after all these years by kickinit · · Score: 1

    waaaaah omgSonicVsMario,, in an official game. sorry, words are failing me. this is momentous

  12. Probably his final smash by Asmor · · Score: 1

    Every character gets a final smash-- basically a super move. For example, Bowser turns into a giant Bowser, and Samus does some crazy charged shot and then her armor falls off.

    My guess is that Supersonic is Sonic's final smash

    1. Re:Probably his final smash by supersysscvi · · Score: 1

      Probably? At the end of this gameplay demo, Sonic is shown obtaining a Smash Ball, which initiates his Super Sonic transformation. Although it explains it in the video, I'll just add that Super Sonic flies around smacking people during the final smash.

  13. Not quite a paperweight... by SuperMonkeyCube · · Score: 1
    Did you play Resident Evil 4:Wii Edition? Lots of replay value there. I'm still playing Mercs from the GC version!

    I'm sure someone else mentioned Metroid 3. How about the upcoming Soul Calibur Legends? Umbrella Chronicles? If you're upset that none of the things I mentioned are fighting games, how about Bleach, the next Guilty Gear game, or Samurai Showdown Anthology?

    Personally, I think that if Capcom had kept going with Power Stone, they could have made it a success on the Gamecube - but I understand that few games have the raw Licensed Character quality that SSB has. Maybe you need something more off the wall?

    Onechanbara's what you really want, isn't it?

    Hey, I tried.

    1. Re:Not quite a paperweight... by KDR_11k · · Score: 1

      Onechanbara's what you really want, isn't it?

      Personally I'd rather see Earth Defense Force.

      --
      Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
  14. WTF?? by mcmire · · Score: 1

    ZOMG, being able to play Sonic will be so awesome! Will they add Tails too???!1

  15. King of the Hill by steveo777 · · Score: 1

    Literally. I've always called SSB the ultimate king of the hill experience. It's a fighter, true and proper. I think the definition of fighter is getting blurred by buttons and combo systems. Any game where the point is to beat up one other guy with your fists, and everyone shares the same camera, is going to be a fighter.

    --
    This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
  16. Whooosh! by Hitto · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Joke
    --->
    Carou

    1. Re:Whooosh! by Filip22012005 · · Score: 1

      Joke
      ---
      Hitto

      --
      When the policeman of the tie, rule you violate, hello punishment of the kitty?
    2. Re:Whooosh! by Wildfire+Darkstar · · Score: 3, Informative

      More correctly:

      Joke
      -->
      Hitto

      The "No x... y... Lame" bit was a reference to CmdrTaco's "No wirless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame." verdict concerning the iPod at the time of its release.

      --
      Sean Daugherty "I have walked in Eternity -- and Eternity weeps."
  17. Noooooo.... by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

    So who hear joined me in screaming out a nice, James Earl Jones cry upon reading the subject title?

    Still, as has been echoed above, I'd rather an awesome game than an early game. ...
    Ok, somehow I hit the lameness filter for too much repetition. Somebody's gotta tell Taco or whoever else is in charge of that, that English is 75% redundant. Maybe I should just post an ascii representation of the gzipped contents of my post. Hm.. is my post long enough yet? Apparently so.

    --
    Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
  18. We'll all still buy it anyway by Chardish · · Score: 1

    It's a bit upsetting that Nintendo feels that they can do this just because every single person who owns a Wii and liked the first & second games is a guaranteed sell, anyway. This isn't quality control - it's cost-cutting. Nintendo should have had more developers on this project from day 1 if this was the case.

    1. Re:We'll all still buy it anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're completely right. No other game company has ever delayed a game, and certainly there couldn't have been unexpected problems during the game's production. Nintendo is just screwing with you for fun.

    2. Re:We'll all still buy it anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First of all, I'm going to guess that you don't know anything about game development or software engineering. Sometimes problems happen, projects are never delivered on time, and assigning more developers to a project frequently only makes it go more slowly. Ever heard the phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen"?

      Second, you're wrong about every person who owns a Wii and liked the first two games being guaranteed to buy this. You can cut out the "owns a Wii" part, because the people who liked the first two games and don't have a Wii are going to buy one in order to play this game.

    3. Re:We'll all still buy it anyway by edwdig · · Score: 1

      This is nothing to do with lack of developers. It's a case of finding a last minute show stopping bug. A game needs to be final and done with testing about 2 months before the release date. They should be starting manufacturing now. Either they knew for several months that they weren't going to make the date, or much more likely, a serious bug was discovered at the last minute.

    4. Re:We'll all still buy it anyway by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      bullshit.

      Nintendo had an entire building dedicated to SSBB development. this is very much an "Oh shit we can't release" problem

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  19. Insightful? by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

    Parent = +1 funny. Maybe if it existed, +1 observant or astute, but INSIGHTFUL? What? I would be the most insightful person in the world if correcting grammatical errors was insightful. Seems like everything gets modded insightful nowadays.

    1. Re:Insightful? by EinZweiDrei · · Score: 1

      Mod parent Insightful.

      --
      Perhaps life really is full of possibilities.
    2. Re:Insightful? by corky842 · · Score: 1

      +1 Funny doesn't give karma.

  20. Why are they happy NOW? by nog_lorp · · Score: 1

    Don't see why the addition of Sonic would mark "making fans of 16-bit games happy". If I remember correctly, a majority of the characters in SSBM were from games that started in the 16-bit era. Zelda, all the Mario characters, the Ice Climbers, etc. Most are OLDER than Sonic.

    1. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Pancake+Bandit · · Score: 1

      The ones you refer to are 8-bit, not 16-bit.

      And when I was younger, everyone was either a Nintendo fan or a Sega fan. We clashed so much that we would have loved a game where you could pit Sonic against Mario.

    2. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Kankraka · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually most of those characters started in the 8bit era of gaming. So was Sonic actually, with the first Sonic the Hedgehog game being on the Master System and Game Gear.

    3. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 1

      Maybe/probably because of the huge/dubious Nintendo/Mario / Sega/Sonic rivalry/collusion from the 8-bit/16-bit days. Now players/fanboys from that classic/nostalgic era can finally make Mario and Sonic fight/kiss in the same game to decide who/what is/was the best/worst mascot/shill?

      --
      +0 Meh
    4. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by heinousjay · · Score: 1

      Reading that hurt my head. Try not to do that again.

      --
      Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
    5. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 1

      I'm/You're writing/reading all/none of my/your posts/trolls like/unlike that/this in the future/past.

      --
      +0 Meh
    6. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by 7Prime · · Score: 1

      Lol.

      The game I really want to see, though, that I think would be a creative and fun waste of time, would be a game staring both Mario and Sonic, but they have to play each other's levels: Mario trying to run through loop-the-loops, and Sonic becoming big by eating mushrooms, crazy shit like that. I can just picture Mario attempting a loop and falling on his ass, the idea leaves itself open for some pretty comedic ideas.

      --
      Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
    7. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Purity+Of+Essence · · Score: 1

      I'm so stealing that idea.

      --
      +0 Meh
    8. Re:Why are they happy NOW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first Sonic the Hedgehog game was created for the Sega Genesis (Mega Drive). It was a showcase for the system's speed and graphics power.

      When it proved to be a hit, a slimmed-down port was eventually made for other Sega systems -- the Master System and Game Gear.

  21. Does It Really Matter? by morari · · Score: 1

    If it's delayed, it's delayed. Melee was extremely polished and it looks as if Brawl will surpass it in every conceivable way. Heck, I still play Melee semi-frequently. The Wii is selling well, they can afford to delay Brawl for a few extra months to perfect it. Besides, finally knowing that Sonic is official more than makes up for it. Though honestly, how surprising was the addition of Sonic? Brawl has had Solid Snake as a third-party character since day one, and with the Mario/Sonic Olympics game coming, it was inevitable that we'd see one of the most requested characters announced. His fighting style looks to be great as well!

    --
    "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
  22. Re:It's not upsetting by daveywest · · Score: 1

    But a holiday release is the difference between 50 million units and 100 million units. Nintendo would have been smarter to put more programmers on this. Here we are a year after release, and they now lack a major holiday product. What's the Japanese word for Opps?

  23. I doubt he'll be broken by metroid+composite · · Score: 1

    I saw an analysis not too long ago that compared his displayed moves to that of some Pikachu/Luigi amalgam (both of which are low tier). He has short limbs, hell his arms are shorter than Pichu (who is bottom tier despite being very fast). He has no projectile that we've seen. Furthermore, Sonic is known for running speed, not necessarily attack speed or attack lag, both of which are more important when it comes to tiers. What really matters, though, is priority. Both Shiek and Fox have very high priority. For that matter, Jigglypuff manages to be decently high on the tier list based on priority and basically nothing else. Unfortunately it's very hard to gauge priority by watching a trailer.

  24. Re:It's not upsetting by Khuffie · · Score: 1

    Since when is Super Mario Galaxy not a major holiday product?

  25. Re:It's not upsetting by Bloomy · · Score: 1

    Nintendo isn't afraid to put out "tent pole" games at different times. A front runner for the year's top selling game was released in April (Pokemon Diamond). Lump Diamond and Pearl together, as Nintendo likes to do, and Halo 3 and Madden really have their work cut out for them this year. When Twilight Princess was bumped from the holiday 2005 timeframe, they announced spring of 2006. Then they decided to add Wii functionality, and that pushed it to holiday 2006 for the Wii launch. New Super Mario Bros and Wind Waker were other major titles that had spring releases, Mario Sunshine was an August release, and the next Mario Kart is slated for spring.

    Though it wouldn't surprise me if Mario Kart slid to the fall, with Brawl being their spring release. With Metroid and (hopefully) Mario out this year, and Brawl and Mario Kart supposed to be on the horizon, what's their flagship holiday Wii title for next year? Can they have another Zelda ready? They could push Animal Crossing as a top tier franchise, but do they have any other established franchises to build a holiday season around?

  26. Re:It's not upsetting by edwdig · · Score: 1

    From the little we've heard and the timing, it sounds like they found a show stopper bug at the last minute. They basically started talking about the delay right when they should have been sending the final game for manufacturing. The commentary about it on smashbros.com yesterday makes it sound like it's an unexpected issue rather than simply not being done on time.

  27. Re:It's not upsetting by aichpvee · · Score: 1

    Hey, let's stay positive now. Maybe someone at Nintendo got a clue and decided that they should drop friend codes and add voice chat so they decided to delay the game since they won't be doing another Smash Brothers on Wii and want people to still be playing it a year from now.

    --
    The Farewell Tour II
  28. Re:It's not upsetting by aichpvee · · Score: 1

    Third holiday on a Nintendo console, dude. They ain't going to have shit. But maybe if we all hope hard enough we'll get a killer Kid Icarus relaunch.

    --
    The Farewell Tour II
  29. Re:It's not upsetting by geminidomino · · Score: 1

    I think you were being sardonic, but I'd trade my PS2 for a new Kid Icarus game!

  30. Re:It's not upsetting by aichpvee · · Score: 1

    Hey, it'd be The Right Move(tm) for Nintendo. Often they try to coast on a second or third party effort the third year out with maybe a second-tier first party game that they try to promote as first-tier.

    I'm thinking a bit of an action/platform/brawler with a darker tone than Nintendo is usually known for and a serious difficulty level. But I could go for some classic side scrolling, too. I'm hoping for a new Ice Climbers, too. Maybe something where they use the ice picks to get an M rating.

    --
    The Farewell Tour II
  31. Re:It's not upsetting by Bloomy · · Score: 1

    You consider Mario Kart second tier? I'd put it in the top tier. Double Dash was the big holiday title for the Gamecube's 3rd holiday season in 2003.

    For the N64's 3rd holiday season, they released Ocarina of Time.

  32. Re:It's not upsetting by aichpvee · · Score: 1

    Mario Kart is not second tier. However Double Dash blows.

    You are however correct, I was actually more thinking of the fourth year in relation to N64 (DK64) and third year for GameCube (wtf crap came out that year). My mistake.

    --
    The Farewell Tour II
  33. Re:It's not upsetting by Zwets · · Score: 1

    ...games like Smash Bros, Mario, Zelda, Halo, Final Fantasy, MGS... don't need to come out for Christmas to sell. They will sell in the millions no matter when they release, so why not spread them out a little more?

    Probably because those games are system sellers, and the holiday season is when people are most likely to purchase a new system. These big titles are more about cementing your system's position in the market than about sheer profit (although, obviously, they do run big profits).

    --
    One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. - Will Duran
  34. Jump Superstars for the DS by Webapprentice · · Score: 1

    The closest game to SSB I can see is Jump Superstars on the DS.

    Various licensed characters, multiple characters on screen, large stages, general chaotic action.