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Capsaicin Tested On Surgical Wounds
Ponca City, We Love You writes "Bite a hot pepper, and after the burn your tongue goes numb. The Baltimore Sun reports that Capsaicin, the chemical that gives chili peppers their fire, is being dripped directly into open wounds during highly painful operations, bathing surgically exposed nerves in a high enough dose to numb them for weeks. As a result patients suffer less pain and require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal. 'We wanted to exploit this numbness,' says Dr. Eske Aasvang, a pain specialist who is testing the substance. Capsaicin works by binding to C fibers called TRPV1, the nerve endings responsible for long-lasting aching and throbbing pain. Experiments are under way involving several hundred patients undergoing various surgeries, including knee and hip replacements using an ultra-purified version of Capsaicin to avoid infection. Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn."
I had this done after my Lasik surgery. Worked well.
Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born.
--Ronald Reagan
Sometimes after eating Jalapenos it feels like I have a surgical wound the next day!
~S
Now in Spicy Barbecue Flavor! ;-)
But I like the fiery feeling in my cuts, you insensitive clods!
Or am I the one who is insensitive, now that my nerves are numb?
they use a mix of anesthetic and the capsaicin so that you'r not in horrible pain. The nerves are over-stimulated in a way, this leads to them being numbed [like after eating too many spicy peppers] and it has already been used as a topical treatment for pain, I think there's even one pain treatment available to the public already based on this.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
This is an awesome idea. I use Jalapeños to ease my emotional pain.
Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
Oh yeah! I'm experiencing dupe-ja-vu!
The game.
The hottest pepper record has been broken.
In the Scoville Organoleptic Test, the Bhut Jolokia pepper scores over 1,000,000
For several years Capsaicin has been used to treat a type of male incontinence. Squirting a bit of it up a catheter apparently is enough to force some of the nerves in the bladder into the right state to stop the muscles being over-relaxed.
I saw this about 10 years ago on PBS with Alan Alda. I wonder what took so long.
(In indian accents)
How hot was it?
NUCLEAR HOT!!!
But what's worse is the fallout the next morning...
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
Very interesting. I can say as a doctor I've never seen this used before though, but it reminded me of a few things:
:)
During surgery the patient is unconscious, and thus feels no pain, but good surgeons recognize that local anesthesia is still necessary. It's a bit counterintuitive, and I remember being puzzled back in medical school that the surgeons would still numb the area before doing any work despite the patient being unresponsive regardless. The thought is that nerves are damaged and there are changes / responses to the painful stimulus that persist despite the individual being unconscious; in a way, you still have neuronal pain signals if you don't give local anesthesia. It also prevents the patient from waking up with pain in the operative site before you can give other types of painkillers.
Lidocaine (and capsaicin to some degree) would prevent the nerves from ever signaling -- they block the sodium channel that is necessary for nerves to fire. No firing -- no pain, *and* no no neuronal changes, and hopefully no long term pain. Lidocaine wears off after 2 hours or so, while it seems that capsaicin has much longer densitization effects.
Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience?
Slashdotter, ID #101. UIDs are in binary, right?
...require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal hmmm, I think I'll pass on the pepper sauce, doc. Just keep the vicodin coming.If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
I have a habanero in my garden. one day someone is going to get hurt
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
But I so do love the narcotic painkillers. :(
I've found that this :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_pepper
works well as an anesthetic. It's commonly use in Gong Bao Ji Ding (US:Kung Pao Chicken) in China, and, along with ginger, makes it way more tasty than the poor imitation available in the west.
Max.
According to the wikipedia page it's used for cooking, eaten alone, to treat stomach ailments or for relief from summer heat?
I'm going to presume that eating this one of these suckers fresh causes an almost instant explosive evacuation of the bowel so powerful that you'd be lucky to have any bones left. I guess that would take your mind off the summer or your stomach problems.
I drink to make other people interesting!
Does this mean that in poor populations where peppers are common (such as in Mexico), they could be used to numb or sterilize wounds? Or would this be counter-productive?
I know many people who don't have access to a first aid kit but who eat peppers every day.
Pouring salt on someone's wounds is not okay but pepper is fine?
EvilCON - Made Famous by
I would love to have been there when this idea popped into somebody's head.
"Hey, bet you can't handle me dripping pepper juice into your open wound"
"Oh yeah? $10 says I can"
*horrible screaming*
Interesting: Garden Russian Roulette.
Your ideas intrigue me; I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
is what came to mind. Now it's hard to sit down.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
/sigh
I guess it won't be long 'til I start getting emails about the magical wonders of exotic capsaicin from the habanero fields of Central America and how I can satisfy my lover with an erection lasting for 6 hours at a time...
Fact: Everything I say is fiction.
I've eaten pieces of fresh habanero (on a dare), and while it was OMFG hot, the numbness didn't last more than 10 or 15 minutes, tops. I have a hard time believing that the capsaicin wouldn't be metabolized in the body pretty quickly, certainly within a day or two.
It's like eating a spoonful of Drano, sure it'll clean you out, but it'll leave you hollow inside.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"For me, pepper, I put it on my plate." -Jean Chretien, former Canadian PM
Does this mean we're going to start seeing pepper spray in first aid kits?
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
Its a deep burrrrn.
Talk about global warming. Ay chihuahua!
This goes along with some other unlikely firsts, eh?
"Let's eat those things from the chickens butt, but first, put them in hot water for a while."
"I bet the white liquid from the cows teet goes great with cookies, let's have a go!"
And now:
"Hmm, this guy is in serious pain...let's pour salsa in him!"
What should I eat to get rid of the overwhelming burning pain in my mouth from eating Jalapenos? The article's suggestion of eating more _did NOT help_.
Who will protect these patients from spice loving cannibals after they leave the hospital?
Chuck Norris' cries pure Capsaicin, too bad hes never cried.
Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
I used it recently when I had a nasty sore throat. You put a teaspoon of chili powder in a cup of lukewarm water and throw it in the back of your throat and gargle with it.
Probably makes your breath smell like hell but the pain from the blazing heat felt better than the sore throat.
Capsaicin is sold as ground chili pepper in capsule form at health stores, and seems to work very well at stimulating cardiac functions in general, as well as unclogging arteries in the long run. Plus, considering that it's natural, with none of the weird side effects that come with most pharmaceuticals, Capsaicin pills work as a supplement to standard medical treatments.
I'm sure they'll find new properties of Capsaicin as time goes on. However, the corporate rub is that Capsaicin, like hemp, is a naturally occurring substance and therefore cannot be patented... unless (bite your tongue) they 'modify' the current laws.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
Somehow modding the above as "flamebait" seems extra-appropriate.
Actually, while I wouldn't put salt in an open exterior wound, I've found it does help with in-the-mouth canker sores. Whenever a nwe allergy season kicks in it takes my body awhile to adjust, and if I'm not careful what I eat then I end up with sore white craters in my inner lip or sometimes cheek. I've found that wetting a Q-tip, putting salt on it, and then rubbing it into the wound causes an initial sting, then blood rises to the surface and they become less bothersome for awhile. They tend tend to heal faster when I do this too.
For those that aren't too keen on the idea of packing salt into the open cut, you can also gargle salt-water for a similar cleansing effect, though I find it's not quite as effective as applying it directly.
Googling for it, many sites do recommend salt-water to cleanse wounds:
Wilderness survival, Intellihealth, and Pediatric advisor (for skin infection)
Other common substances I've heard that can be good for cleaning wounds include garlic and honey.
I've never really understood the expression "salt in an open wound" myself. Having used it in various situations the sting rarely lasts long and afterwards it usually hurts less than before the cleansing.
I wonder how well a mixed solution of natural anesthetic, capsaicin, and salt and maybe garlic extract would work? Might be a good thing to keep around in a naturist's first-aid kit, or perhaps just concentrated solutions of the above and a good water purifier (purify water on-site and mix). I've been meaning to grow myself some hot peppers anyhow, so perhaps I'll buy a plant or two and see if they survive my rather less-than-green thumb.
I once consumed a chip full of this hot sauce and my tongue was numb for a day. A day later it payed the compliment to the other end.
As I grew up, I heard stories of how my parent, especially, my father, was treated or has seen treatment of wounds using home grown peppers on their farm. This isn't something that comes as a surprise, since most hot peppers have some/varying levels of Capsaicin in their composition. Anyone from a developing country can attest to this, in fact, many American Indians can also attest to this, tobacco and coal as a means of treatment. Fairly interesting seeing its use by modern medicine as well.
Just when you thought that a surgical wound couldn't possibly hurt any more.....
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
I ate a whole habanero once, before I knew what a habanero was, when I was in high school. My sister got it at a country club function that she was working at; they were using the very colorful habaneros for decoration. Someone told her 'don't let the guests eat these peppers, they are very hot.' Knowing how much I like spicy food, she brought one home and gave it to me. I remember it was bright orange or maybe orangish-pink. I popped it in my mouth, chewed a few times, and swallowed.
...
The pain that followed exceeded all my expectations of how much pain one can feel in one's mouth and throat. I came very close to asking that someone take me to a hospital. However, my mom and sister were in another room so I just stood in front of the sink, involuntarily hiccupping, tears streaming down my face, and waited it out. I think I drank one or two 2 liter bottles of 7 up, but they didn't help. Eventually I recovered.
That was definitely the hottest thing I have ever eaten; and I am a real lover of spicy food, but that was too much.
I feel that the benefit of spicy food is not just the heat; it's the tendency of such food to also have alot of tang and flavor that together with a good amount of heat makes it really, really enjoyable. I think that habaneros have a really bad flavor; they don't really have a tangy and tasty flavor, they taste funky and vegetable-y, and not good. I think there is a reason that habaneros have only recently started being used in hot sauces that advertise their heat over their flavor (usually with stupid names like 'atomic bomb sauce' or 'hell's demon fire' or whatever). People who traditionally ate hot foods understood the importance of the balance of flavor and heat, whereas the gimmicky habanero sauce makers have no clue. I really don't like it when I sit down at a restaurant and the only hot sauces they have to offer are habanero sauces. I feel that it indicates a lack of understanding of hot sauces.
But if they have Tapatio on the table, or even Chalula, then I know I'm in for a good meal
Actually salt (or rather salt water - in particular 0.9% saline) is slightly preferable to plain water when cleansing wounds. Water is hypotonic, so causes a shift of water into the exposed cells causing them to swell and rupture. Dead cells are a breeding ground for bacteria, so 0.9% saline (which is isotonic to the exposed cells) is preferable.
That said, the most preferable cleansing is quickly and copiously right after the injury. So immediately running your cut under the tap for several minutes or rinsing it with your bottle of evian is preferable to waiting till you get your hands on a liter of saline. The biggest axiom in wound care is: the solution to pollution is dilution.
Lesson learned. Pain is a great teacher.
Too lazy to create a sig...
Yeah "medical" trials. Just making it so we're a bit tastier for our coming alien overlords.
Is it really worth it to buy that at $310 per mL? Isn't that just....stupid?
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
Plant derived spices and general goodies (not least caffeine!) have evolved mostly to protect the plants themselves from a major threat by poisoning insects. Generally, naturally occurring substances tend to have more rather than fewer side effects. However, we and our animal forebears have also evolved some tolerance to all these yummy substances.
There's a lot of posters writing about their experiences after eating habaneros and the like, either out of curiosity or on a dare.
Well, here's a great tip next time you're on a dare, or in a thai or mexican restaurant: Keep a piece of candy nearby. If the burning sensation becomes too much to bear, unwrap the candy and pop it in your mouth, the sudden sugar coating on the tongue will overwhelm the taste buds with a near-opposite sensation, canceling most of the pain.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
A day later it payed the compliment to the other end.
In Mexico, that's know as "paying taxes".
I'm very, very good at eating spicy, but once, in a seafood joint, I noticed a bottle of Insanity Sauce, which I'd never seen before, and with due warning from the guys there, I put like, six drops on my ceviche tostada, and for the first time in years, my eyes watered up, I couldn't believe it. The guys had a good chuckle, but went silent when I put six more drops in my next tostada, and the next one. When I returned a week later for more, I noticed something had changed: the guys treated me with respect, Goodfellas-style.
Sadly, after a few months, they ran out of that bottle and have been unable to find another one. I still go there, as the guys make great mesquite-smoked clams. And they're always drinking beer.
Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
Isn't this stuff also a coagulant? Would that have any effects on the surgery?
Oh, and people, there's nothing wrong with putting salt in a wound. Sure, it stings a bit, but I'll dry the wound, which is a good thing.
>Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn.
Human volunteers? To what 3rd world country did we outsource the clinicals?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I grow habaneros and use them in my cooking all the time. No, I wouldn't eat them right off of the plant - that's just dumb. But it's my contention that they do add a nice flavor and a really subtle heat to any sauce or soup.
/comeonicecream!
I can see the fnords!
I've never really understood the expression "salt in an open wound" myself.
It's probably akin to "Adding insult to injury". You've just added a bit of sting to the injury. It's probably not based on any sort of medical advice.
Thanks to the internet, we can now all die alone together! -SomeWoman
I do eat them plain. They're good. After a while of eating lots of Indian food I got used to it, Jalepenos are barely spicy to me. Habaneros have an excellent flavor, most people are just unable to taste it properly due to the spice.
Not a sentence!
You have a very calloused tongue, then. I wish I could do that.
I have to agree; I'm not a huge fan of heat for the sake of heat, but I can certainly appreciate the differance between (for example) a fresh jalapeno vs. a pickled jalapeno vs. a smoked jalapeno (i.e., chipotle).
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Yes, it's also the reason why korean kimchi is awesome no matter how hot it is. It's the flavour that counts.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
[...]
Lidocaine (and capsaicin to some degree) would prevent the nerves from ever signaling -- they block the sodium channel that is necessary for nerves to fire. No firing -- no pain, *and* no no neuronal changes, and hopefully no long term pain. Lidocaine wears off after 2 hours or so, while it seems that capsaicin has much longer densitization effects.
Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience?
I wonder if a capsaicin-numbed wound would leave a permanently numb region after it healed.
You can't take the sky from me...
Hahahahahaa
Dumbass.
I don't normally revel in other's pain, but that was hilarious!
I happen to like the slight citrusy flavour of habaneros, and grow red savinas for cooking.
Because capsaicin (what makes peppers hot) is a hydrocarbon, it's not soluble in water.
In fact, water just washes away the saliva, which at least has some enzymes which help, it also ensures the heat gets spread ALL over in the inside of your mouth.... fizzy drinks (esp coke) are even worse!
Have some milk, frozen yogurt or better yet a high alcohol content shooter (tequila anyone? but vodka works fine) to wash the heat out your mouth (and into your stomach, where it becomes tomorrows problem).
Regards
Chillihead Sproggg
Local anesthetics by themselves, usually do NOT have any vasoconstrictive properties. However they often come in two "flavors" without and with epinepherine, and it's the epi that produces the vasoconstriction.
..........FULL STOP.
when I was a kid, and I dumped some tabasco sauce down a friends pants...
I refrained from teasing him for crying, 'cause I wasn't a TOTAL asshole.
I have an experiment I need someone to try. Could menthol spray be a neutralizing agent for capsicum spray?
(Capsaicin "activates" heat receptors and menthol that is found in mints "activates" cold receptors)
The experiment:
1. Eat some hot peppers.
2. Wait for the burning sensation
3. apply menthol (mouthwash / some mints)
4. note whether the two have a canceling effect.
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
sensitive clod?
...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
Am I the only one who feels like the Scoville units are becoming the equivalent of DragonBall Z power levels?
It's over 9,000!
So now we have to bump it up to Freiza levels and have everyone making noises just like in the show...
Capsaicin also works great for sore throats.
Cayenne pepper gargleIt says that it prevents the nerve from firing for weeks.
Wouldn't this cause atrophy for said nerves?
I know that in many cases where nerve conductivity is hampered, one ends up with less sensation and mobility in muscles/skin that is served by that nerve. For example, in Bell's facial palsy, the face never recovers to its original if the nerve pinching that happens (due to inflammation, virus or whatever unknown reason so far) causes conductivity to the muscles of the affected side to vanish or diminish.
Would weeks of non-conductivity do the same thing?
Any doctors in the house?
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