Claim of a Blu-ray BD+ Crack

Google85 writes in with a brief Enquirer piece reporting on an announcement on a German site that SlySoft claims to have cracked BD+, the extra copy-protection layer in Blu-ray. Here is the German original.

Comments

How to translate MPAA claims.

[Silverlancer]

The amount of time the MPAA claims it will take to crack something (in this case, 10 years) is inversely related to how long it will actually take (in this case, a few weeks).

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[aweiland]

If that's the line they used to get exclusive deals with studios they're gonna have some 'splaining to do.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[AxemRed]

I reckon that you are right. ;)

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[TWX]

...and the beat goes on...
...and the beat goes on...

Drums keep poundin' a rhythm to the brain...
 
 

Let me know when they've got a copy-protection method that doesn't get cracked in a few weeks or months of its debut. Otherwise it's just the regular pattern.

Maybe if they want their precious movies to avoid this, they should consider using a media that physically has no computer-based player...

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Amouth]

it worked for NASA and their 90 day rover project

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[nuzak]

> Let me know when they've got a copy-protection method that doesn't get cracked in a few weeks or months of its debut.

Anyone cracked MagicGate yet?

Heck, even AACS is just weakened, not really permanently broken. Though I suspect as long as they're giving keys to software players, it's going to keep getting cracked.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[AmaDaden]

Well from a quick look at the wiki for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD%2B#Digital_rights_management_.28DRM.29 It seems like all they have to do to deal with a weak crack is change the disks a bit.

If a playback device manufacturer finds that its devices have been hacked, it can potentially release BD+ code that detects and circumvents the vulnerability. These programs can then be included in all new content releases.

Anyone have any idea how BD+ was cracked?

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Kickasso]

SACD is not cracked. Not that anyone is interested.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[AchiIIe]

It's great news but keep in mind the entire procedure has not been cracked yet. There are three major layers of security in a Blu Ray Player
1) AACS (currently we have ways to sniff the code out of software, cat and mouse game for now) (Cracked - sort of)
2) BD+ (The virtual machine decrypting the AACS content) (Cracked)
3) BD ROM MARK - A small key that has been stored on the cd using alternate technological means. This is an extra key that is read using only BLU RAY players using mysterious methods.

Without the BD ROM Mark the disk can't be decrypted quite yet.
The article makes no claim that this has been cracked.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Dr Kool, PhD]

Wrong, ROM-Mark is irrelevant. BD-R media has no ROM-Mark and pretty much every player these days can play BDMV from BD-R. People have been ripping and burning to BD-R for some time now.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[feepness]

The amount of time the MPAA claims it will take to crack something (in this case, 10 years) is inversely related to how long it will actually take (in this case, a few weeks). As further proof of your theory, DRM-free media will never be cracked.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[jandrese]

It's one thing to make unbreakable encryption (DRM), it's quite another to make a DRM that nobody can be bothered to break.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[jandrese]

I wonder if the players have the same design that Microsoft is using where each new release of the blacklist has a serial number on it and the player will only update the blacklist if the serial number is larger than the one it has internally. Thus to defeat it all you need is a disc with a MAXVAL serial number and an empty blacklist (or a minimal valid blacklist, maybe copied from an older disc with the serial number bumped).

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Jherek Carnelian]

Without the BD ROM Mark the disk can't be decrypted quite yet.
The article makes no claim that this has been cracked. No, it just means that without the BD ROM-Mark (and the magic equipment needed to write it to another BD-ROM disc), a bit-for-bit copy can't be made. However, a remastered copy should present no problem at all.

In other words, the BD ROM-Mark is not intended to stop access to the encrypted movie, it is intended to stop someone from duplicating the original disc without decrypting it all.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a hack a while back which allowed an entire DVD to be read, by opening up the reader and modifying some of the pins to attach to a computer via usb. Assuming that it actually works, it would allow the BD ROM Mark to be read.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Goose42]

There's no computer drive that'll read SACDs, that's why it remains uncracked.

Of course, that doesn't stop people from using the good ol' analog hole, and circulating DTS-CD images of content only released on SACD.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Kythe]

Anyone have any idea how BD+ was cracked?

I have no where near an exact understanding, but I did read that they wrote their own virtual machine to do the job.

For what it's worth.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[tepples]

Anyone cracked MagicGate yet? Yes. The "GateCrasher" chip emulates at least enough of MagicGate to allow making a PlayStation 2 compatible memory card.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Opportunist]

Someone should tell the MPAA, they'll surely jump on this immediately!

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[networkBoy]

Yes, but as Bruce says: It only takes one person to take an interest in your system that has the appropriate skill set and your content is never again secure.
-nB

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[calibanDNS]

Maybe if they want their precious movies to avoid this, they should consider using a media that physically has no computer-based player... Yes! Bring back LaserDiscs!

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Give me some drm-free media.

I'll crack it.

In fact, I'll email it to my friends and they will be able to open it.

(seriously though, drm-free is great for new music artists and the such)

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Kickasso]

Many high-end "standalone" SACD players have encrypted firewire outputs. Capture it (easy) and crack it (not so easy).

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Lord Apathy]

I have no where near an exact understanding, but I did read that they wrote their own virtual machine to do the job.

From what limited knowledge I have and what I've just read it seem to me the simplest way to do would be to write your own virtual machine that simply lies to the disk. No matter what the disk ask the virtual machine return 'OK'. I'm pretty sure it's more complex than this and I'm sure they thought about it. But then again they didn't think of that fucking shift key ether.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Lord Apathy]

I think that was the whole point. Nobody gives a damn.

Re:How to translate MPAA claims.

[Anonymous Coward]

Divide by zero?! OH SHI-!

No surprise here

[hackshack]

Why doesn't this surprise me? And this time it's not DVD-Jon!

So i guess if true

[cybrthng]

that means Fox will have to cease all BD disks since they're so particular about BD+ being the "be all end all" encryption they need to prevent "rampant piracy"?

Re:So i guess if true

[cromar]

I'd like to see Fox (or any other studio) sue the MPAA asking for arbitrarily large amounts of cash to compensate them for all the piracy this weak crypto causes. It would be really nice for the tables to turn a bit.

Re:So i guess if true

[toleraen]

So you'd like to see Fox sue themselves? Brilliant!

Re:So i guess if true

[El_Piso]

Actually, BD+ is specifically designed so that as soon as one code is cracked, another one can be produced. Basically, now that this sequence has been cracked, Fox will start producing the same movies with a new BD+ security code. Players don't have to be updated to read this new code and those who would try to crack the new discs would have to start all over again. Sure it will take a while for the new code to be released, but it will subsequently delay those who would pirate these films at least temporarily once the new codes are out.

I honestly think the only reason people are cracking this stuff is the same reason that people climb Mt. Everest: Because it's there. Most people I have spoken to who pirate movies don't care about HD-quality video and would rather download a 2GB file as opposed to a 30-50GB file... ::shrugs:: Oh well.

Re:So i guess if true

[Anonymous Coward]

They knew it would be cracked this way, but they expect BD+ to protect them trough the first weeks of release (when most money is made), unlike AACS which was fully cracked and now completely useless.

As of now there are no universal cracks in the wild for BD+ and no vulnerabilities were found in BD+ yet. The keys need to be cracked from a new software players version, every cycle of disk release. This doesn't make the scheme uncrackable, but it takes time to crack every time and that was the whole idea. It requires time, cannot be done computationally, and most importantly the work needs to be done every cycle of release.

If you read the doom9 forum, SlySoft explained that they cracked specific discs, and they said it took them 3 week to extract the keys from the software player. Now these keys will be revoked in the next cycle, and the software player they extract the keys from will have it's key revoked and will require an update. This update will use a new obscuring scheme for the keys, and it will require another 3 weeks to crack.

Re:So i guess if true

[Zironic]

HD quality isn't more then 1gb per hour. Go to your favorite pirate site and check out the filesize of the 1024 res vids.

Re:So i guess if true

[sholden]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/oct/29/tvnews.internationalnews

It's not unheard of...

Re:So i guess if true

[Em Adespoton]

Sure it will take a while for the new code to be released, but it will subsequently delay those who would pirate these films at least temporarily once the new codes are out.

Hmm... I guess I must not be keeping up with the changing definition of Pirate -- my immediate thought was, "wait a minute, the people mass producing the discs with the old code can still do so; the old code doesn't cease to be valid...." Then I realized you were talking about people ripping a legally purchased video to a DRM-less format, not people mass distributing discs for profit.

Seriously, I think the one thing this format has going for it is that unless the master copy is pirated and distributed in a DRM-less format, the MPAA members will have a window with each release where the market won't be flooded with free versions of their product, so people who want "zero-day" entertainment will be more likely to see it on TV/in the theatre/buy the DVD.

Re:So i guess if true

[Tweekster]

you cant sue yourself

Re:So i guess if true

[Anonymous Coward]

Fox (or any other studio) ARE the MPAA

Re:So i guess if true

[devjj]

I honestly think the only reason people are cracking this stuff is the same reason that people climb Mt. Everest: Because it's there.

Ah, no. People are cracking these because they enforce usage controls that many - myself included - believe go too far. Some of us like to use media centers that play video that's been ripped (not necessarily pirated). I've got a nice collection of video files that I've ripped from DVDs that I own that I stream to my living room media center. It's extremely convenient and the video quality is quite good. I'm not out there distributing the ripped versions of these films, and I'm not out there downloading pirated versions of them, either. I'm doing nothing more than utilizing an alternative method to view content I paid for in the privacy of my own home. At present, I cannot do this with Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

To be fair, commercial DVDs contain copy protections designed to thwart this kind of activity, but thanks to the diligent efforts by the very same kind of people (and likely the same people in many cases) who are working to crack the new schemes, the process is convenient and effectively one-click. Until I can do the same thing with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs, I won't be buying any of either, and I'll continue to recommend to the people who ask my opinion that they stay away.

In short, people aren't just doing it because they can. They're doing it because there are legitimate reasons for doing so. Not everyone who rips discs is a pirate, but this DRM punishes all equally.

Re:So i guess if true

[Kythe]

AACS which was fully cracked and now completely useless.

AACS hasn't been "fully cracked" -- the encryption scheme remains unbroken. It's just proving impossible to keep people from extracting the keys once they're in memory -- which they have to be to decrypt the movie. Software players have evidently gotten extremely sneaky at obfuscating keys, yet it's not enough.

So AACS isn't really cracked. It's just trying to do what can't be done.

Re:So i guess if true

[shark72]

"Hmm... I guess I must not be keeping up with the changing definition of Pirate -- my immediate thought was, "wait a minute, the people mass producing the discs with the old code can still do so; the old code doesn't cease to be valid...." Then I realized you were talking about people ripping a legally purchased video to a DRM-less format, not people mass distributing discs for profit."

It hasn't changed. The definition is pretty broad. e.g. dictionary.com:

to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: to pirate hit records.

Of course, I know that many people have their own definitions. If I understand you correctly, the definition you favor includes only those who are mass producing (presumably counterfeit) discs. This presumably means that if you're ripping the occasional DVD or downloading the occasional torrent, you're not really a "pirate" according to the definition you choose to accept. Fair enough -- but it's important to understand that the word's actual definition does encompass what you're doing.

For what it's worth, the Wikipedia disambiguation page agrees with the dictionary. Wikipedia being the democratic, egalitarian free-for-all that it is, if you have a spare moments, why not update that page and change "Copyright infringement" to "mass distribution of discs for profit"? It's apparent that your definition is not the widely accepted one, but I could very well be wrong.

Re:So i guess if true

[Firethorn]

That's still enough compression to create the occasional artifacting problem that I can see.

Doubling the bit ratio would probably help. 1.5-2GB would help.

Re:So i guess if true

[ZachPruckowski]

Fox can't sue the MPAA because the MPAA is an organization made up of the studios. The organization Fox would sue for this would be the AACS-LA, and they could maybe sue them for failing to meet contractual obligations or something. But even that would be a stretch.

Re:So i guess if true

[torkus]

Eh, they said that about about DVDs. Why download 4-9GB when you can get the not-too-bad MPEG4/DIVX/etc. that only weighs 700MB.

Bandwidth keeps growing...i can get 30 or 40Mbit to my home for less than $100 a month. How long do you think it will be until people just go for the BD/HDDVD version anyway? When DVDs were cracked what was "good" bandwidth...500Kbit? A T1 at 1.5Mbit was "FAST". My cable modem does twice that today.

Re:So i guess if true

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, no, I personally enjoy cracking things for the sheer fun of it; I like the challenge (I also have too much free time). Though granted things this annoy me, or things that did annoy me and make me go out of my way for something would put it higher on my list of things to do.
It can be extremely satisfying successfully cracking something, especially if you're the first to do it.

Re:So i guess if true

[Em Adespoton]

...it's important to understand that the word's actual definition does encompass what you're doing.

No, it actually isn't.

to use or reproduce (a book, an invention, etc.) without authorization or legal right: to pirate hit records.

While downloading or ripping discs might be illegal in some countries, that is not universally true -- in the US ripping is legal for personal use, but downloading is a questionable area; in the UK, both are illegal; in Canada, both are legal.

The accepted definition seems to be copyright infringement = piracy; this is different than copying = piracy. This seems to make sense to me.

Re:So i guess if true

[LaoChe1984]

"... but this DRM punishes all equally." I don't think that's generally true. Once it's completely cracked (and it will be) it will be like CD and DVD DRM which disproportionately affects honest people as opposed to the "pirates" it is supposed to thwart. People who are serious about copying music and movies for fun or profit have the knowledge and the means to do so at will. People who want to casually copy music (to make a backup or a mix or burn an owned disc onto an HTPC) are the ones who are more likely to be stopped.

Re:So i guess if true

[pdxdada]

I honestly think the only reason people are cracking this stuff is the same reason that people climb Mt. Everest: Because it's there. I own DVDs (all legally purchased) from 3 different regions. Not being able to watch the movies I purchased was one of the main motivators that made me start using Linux full time. Aside from the cost I refuse to buy HD movies right now because I have no way to play them (I don't want to have to buy a stand alone player). So although I'm not one of the people actively cracking Blue-ray and HD-DVD I can easily understand their motivations.

Re:So i guess if true

[devjj]

Technically, we're both right. You're correct in that my reasoning isn't the only reasoning, and I'm right in pointing out that my reasoning exists in addition to yours, the one he cited, and others.

Re:So i guess if true

[petermgreen]

Some pirates may well do a bit for bit copy but that requires special (read: expensive and difficult to obtain) equipment. I bet most pirates (especially those who don't try to hide the fact that thier product is pirate) crack the encryption, recompress if nessacery and burn on relatively cheap, readilly availible consumer grade burners.

I reckon

[Anonymous Coward]

I reckon that what Slysoft reckons and what Sony reckons don't reckoncile... Man, you reckon they used reckon enough in that article on the Inq?

Re:I reckon

[Adambomb]

Man, you reckon they used reckon enough in that article on the Inq? I reckon.

Re:I reckon

[Evanisincontrol]

Ironic that you would get modded higher than the GP.

...I reckon?

Re:I reckon

[dasPlookenMeister]

you better change your attitude or i'm gonna start wreckin' some shit..

Re:I reckon

[Anonymous Coward]

As Josie Wales would say, "I reckon so"

Re:I reckon

[Adambomb]

I reckon.

Re:I reckon

[mgblst]

Heaps likely that this was written by an Australian, probably called Bruce.

doom9

[legoman666]

Some more info about it at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=130527&page=5 Knew it was only a matter of time...

What's so unusual about this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bluegums are often on crack.

Dare we credit...?

[oahazmatt]

Dare we credit this blatant act of piracy to, yet again, a Sharpie?

Re:Dare we credit...?

[Huntr]

Hold down the shift key when you insert the disc. :p

Re:Dare we credit...?

[Bryansix]

Or better yet turn off auto-run on your Optical Media Drives.

Re:Dare we credit...?

[A beautiful mind]

I reckon we could do that.

Re:Dare we credit...?

[StikyPad]

Yes, but to confuse everyone, this time let's pronounce it "Shar-pay."

Re:Dare we credit...?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better still to disable auto-run and shoot those responsible for it.

Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[decken]

TFA in English used the verb "reckon" four times in as many sentences. I reckon I ought to have struggled through the German.

Re:Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[Fieryphoenix]

Mayhap you're right.

Re:Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[Anonymous Coward]

This happens a lot with literal translations, a more nuanced translation will take account of word frequency as well as meaning. We wouldn't have this problem of course if there weren't multiple words for the same thing. And word frequency can vary depending on social status, geographic region, and time period. As you suggest, reckon had a high word frequency in the old west and wouldn't seem out of place at all.

Any translation that is understandable and correctly conveys the intent is a "good" translation. But a good translation isn't necessarily good prose in the new language.

Re:Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[Chris Pimlott]

Depends where you live. "Reckon" is a quite common word in Australia.

Re:Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[Lord Ender]

"Reckon" is a common word in Appalachia. If you think saying "I reckon" sounds too unsophisticated, you can always opt for the more refined "I figger."

Re:Unusual word choice, outside of a Western

[Dachannien]

you can always opt for the more refined "I figger."

Ahhhhh, feels like home!

So..... this means that

[r_jensen11]

we can safely expect flood of new signatures on /.? Or is this unrelated to any encryption key?

Problems?

[AlphaDrake]

Was it this extra layer of protection that was causing some players to have some ungodly load times that was mentioned on /. a little while ago? And if the companies spent half as much money on increasing space/fixing problems as they did useless protection schemes, we'd be on Terabyte sized dvd's by now :P

t-shirt

[jibster]

OK, now when will the T-Shirts be up on ThinkGeek?

Re:t-shirt

[legoman666]

Slysoft is safeguarding their decryption method. So you won't see any t-shirts this time around. They worked hard to get here first, and they want to make their money off of it before others crack it also. Well deserved in my opinion.

Re:t-shirt

[Dragonslicer]

They worked hard to get here first, and they want to make their money off of it before others crack it also. Why don't they just patent it?

Re:t-shirt

[pla]

They worked hard to get here first, and they want to make their money off of it before others crack it also. Well deserved in my opinion.

And we all know how well that will work...

"Hey, we have this great new idea that appeals primarily(1) to pirates. Let's sell it, because they'd never just pirate our ripping software!"

Anyway, this gives us proof-of-concept. I'd guess we'll have a FOSS version within a month, now that all the cryptogeeks know a solution exists.



1 - Yes, plenty of us use "access control circumvention technology" to rip CDs and DVDs we actually own to our home media servers. If you think we "ethical rippers" make up even a tiny fraction of the target market for such programs, however, I have a bridge for sale on the cheap...

The only surprising thing is it's not DVD Johh!

[Cyberax]

But I guess he was too busy playing with iPhone...

Re:The only surprising thing is it's not DVD Johh!

[DirtyHerring]

No, this time it was Blue-Ray-Peer(TM)

Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[maillemaker]

I don't have an HD-capable TV, so I don't fool around with Blu-ray or any of that stuff yet.

But I wanted to take this opportunity to say how great Slysoft's software is.

I tried at least half a dozen pieces of "free" software trying to rip DVDs and re-encode them to .AVI files. While I could usually get the ripping done (Ripit4me worked), I could never get a re-encoding to work that didn't have audio/video sync issues.

I plied all the forums, downloaded endless codecs and other whosit and whatsit pieces here and there and could never get it to work. So much for "open source".

So I laid out $80 to Slysoft. One package to rip the DVDs, and one package to re-encode them into a variety of formats (I use .AVI). It has worked flawlessly.

I'm a big Slysoft fan now.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[networkBoy]

FWIW your problems were with the rips.
I had similar issues, related to some of the copy protection inserting null or unreferenced frames, etc. AnyDVD filters those out beautifully.
-nB

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[Cap'nPedro]

I agree.
I use AnyDVD on my HTPC to skip past those anti-piracy ads on the beginning of DVDs (Jesus, I bought the disc already don't bitch to me about pirates!) and automatically skip to the menu.

The same piece of software will also limit the speed of the drive, making it quieter.

Overall, I've been extremely pleased with them.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[shaka999]

Hmmm, I didn't think it was that tough.

I use the free DVDFab HD Decrypter to rip and AutoGK (http://www.autogk.me.uk/) to encode to avi.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[moosesocks]

Although their Windows version has a ways to go, HandBrake is fantastic for ripping/encoding DVDs in one fell swoop. 99% of the time, 'it just works'.

The more recent versions have made it a bit less "mac-like" (ie. they added a whole lot more configuration options), but it's still dead-on simple to use.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[jedidiah]

What the H*LL are you talking about?

I transcode tons of stuff. The only things that
have ever given me any sorts of problems are
attempts to convert from NTSC -> PAL sync rates.
The rest has been easy breezey (even with the CLI
tools).

Anyone that pays $80 to rip DVD's is an idiot.

Sure their HD stuff is worth the money but the
other stuff is completely generic at this point.
There's even got to be cheaper payware in winland
then that stuff.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[dangitman]

I transcode tons of stuff. The only things that have ever given me any sorts of problems are attempts to convert from NTSC -> PAL sync rates.

But most of the free tools have problems with some of the newer copy protection schemes - such as the ones on newer Sony discs. Slysoft is almost always the first to support cracking of new protection schemes.

Anyone that pays $80 to rip DVD's is an idiot.

Anybody who doesn't see the value in paying for good software and saving time and headaches is a bigger idiot. What you don't seem to realize is that AnyDVD is not just for ripping, it works seamlessly for playing DVDs with copy protection (in any application) and overriding blocks on skipping unwanted content, etc. It also gives a very nice, detailed analysis of the discs, too. Perhaps you shouldn't knock it until you've tried it?

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[courseofhumanevents]

That has to be the first time I've ever seen anyone censor "hell" on Slashdot.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[Anonymous Coward]

So much for "open source".

What does open source have to do with anything about your video conversion problems? Open source has many powerful tools to do video/audio conversions. I use ffmpegx on Mac OS X and it works great.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[DigiShaman]

You should try Clone DVD Mobile. That's the stuff! All you need is DVD Decrypter to create your VOB files, and Clone DVD Mobile to transcode them. I use it all the time to convert to IPod video format (MP4). It'll also do PSP and other formats too in case your wondering.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Never tried Gordian Knot? http://www.doom9.org/

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[maillemaker]

I did try Gordian Knot, along with AutoGK, as I said. No luck.

The Doom forums is one of the forums I poked around on trying to fix the problem. It is rife with people having the exact problems I'm having. Here is an example thread I found in 10 seconds:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=131202

Check out the proposed "fix" in the above thread by user "setarip_old"!

Get real! And this is exactly the kinds of "fixes" I muddled through for a few days trying to get the free stuff to work. It's like a freaking arcane black art or something. No thanks. I paid my $80 and now I make a few clicks from a nice, simple GUI and it JUST WORKS.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[Zerimar]

I agree, I too am a proud owner of AnyDVD. I don't use CloneDVD since DVD Shrink works well enough for me, but AnyDVD is a great piece of software.

Re:Slysoft is GOOD STUFF

[Anonymous Coward]

He wasn't censoring "hell".

He meant "H-fucking-ell".

Problems

[king-manic]

Well DRM is a pretty hefty mountain to climb. How do you:

1- Protect media with lock
2- ensure customer can open lock with key to use
3- ensure customer can't copy content with the same key

Given enough time clever customers will always find your keys and always figure a way to copy your media. Isn't it better to stop trying and just offer products not licenses. The alternate route is to simply make copying hard enough to deter most people (console games + mod chips) or dial home to get some nifty extra features (MMORPG's).

Re:Problems

[ScrewMaster]

The alternate route is to simply make copying hard enough to deter most people

That's not an alternate route for the studios ... that is the route! From the early Macrovision anti-VHS-copying technique to Blu-Ray, the idea has never been to have an unbreakable protection system. They just want to eliminate casual copying, and to that end good old CSS does just fine, when you get right down to it..

Re:Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

They just want to eliminate casual copying, and to that end good old CSS does just fine, when you get right down to it..

Not so much anymore, since all a "casual" user has to do is "casually" install bittorrent and commence the downloading of an unlocked copy.
 
Oh Noes! Now it's easier to just pirate the content instead of buying it!
 
Hey **AA, I found your severed foot. You left it on my doorstep riddled with bullet holes.

Re:Problems

[PCM2]

The alternate route is to simply make copying hard enough to deter most people (console games + mod chips) or dial home to get some nifty extra features (MMORPG's).

Actually, the alternate route might be to make the blank media cost enough that people can't be bothered. Double layer DVD media are still too expensive (comparatively) for many people I know to bother with; they either use DVDShrink or, if they like the movie enough, buy it for $15. This is probably the reason why the MPAA lobbies for media taxes in Canada.

Re:Problems

[Sneftel]

That was a great idea when casual copying was the norm; that is, when sneakernet's bandwidth was several orders of magnitude greater than any other link. But now that P2P is a fact of life, "casual copying" is unimportant. What's important is "casual acquisition", and as long as even one guy can crack the protection there is no significant barrier possible to casual acquisition.

Re:Problems

[ScrewMaster]

What's important is "casual acquisition", and as long as even one guy can crack the protection there is no significant barrier possible to casual acquisition.

True enough, at the current state of the art, network-wise. So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

Re:Problems

[meringuoid]

True enough, at the current state of the art, network-wise. So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

Give up.

No, seriously. All this copy protection is pissing off the paying customers who find that their TV, while quite capable of displaying HD signals, won't display this signal because Hollywood won't trust it. Or whose new PC is dedicating clock cycles every second of the day to enforcing a Hollywood-mandated lockdown on the whole system, and will crash the fuck out if anything's even slightly suspect. Meanwhile, as we're seeing, it's hardly even showing the pirates down.

Re:Problems

[ishpeck]

Actually, the alternate route might be to make the blank media cost enough that people can't be bothered.

Right... 'cause nobody bothers to rip media straight to their hard disks.

Re:Problems

[Sneftel]

I would:

* Cut it out with the byzantine copy protections.
* Great special features, like deleted scenes and director's commentary-- content which is rarely maintained when ripping.
* Ensure that there are insanely convenient, reasonably cost-effective legal distribution systems available.
* Quit worrying so much. The industry's profits aren't falling off a cliff, and if they were going to they would have already.

Re:Problems

[jabuzz]

You must my joking. Here in the UK I can get dual layer media for 82p each in a cake box of 25. I know my brother uses them to knock of Disney DVD's so that when my niece has scratched it to pieces he can just bang out another copy from the original. A lot cheaper than a new Disney DVD at upwards of 15GBP each.

Re:Problems

[Sloppy]

So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

Never fuck over a paying customer. Never do anything that causes my product to be inferior to a pirated copy. Never ever send the message, "We don't want your moneyl you might want to consider looking for a pirated copy instead." Ergo: no DRM. Don't try to prevent copying through technical means; don't do anything that prevents interoperability; don't do anything that restricts the availability of players, since that restricts my market.

Go ahead and prosecute copyright infringers when it's easy to do so, but don't fixate on them. Keep existing customers, try to gain customers, but don't worry too much about people who aren't customers, except in terms of luring them.

In other words, try to think of revenue as a desirable thing, rather than as something to snicker about when the stockholders aren't watching me.

Re:Problems

[TheSkyIsPurple]

I was at an internal discussion given by one of the big MPAA names awhile back, and that was their mantra.

How are we going to deal with Piracy? Compete!
We will make a better product, and people will pay a reasonable price.
People will pay $20.00 to get an excellent copy of a movie with extras and good graphics, even if they already shelled out $2 for that pirated cam version so they could get it earlier.

I'm so sad to see that sentiment get drowned out years later.

Re:Problems

[0111 1110]

So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

Well my first step would be lobbying over at Comcast to disable bittorrent and emule uploading and cripple the downloading. After Comcast is conquered I would move on to Verizon. FIOS, with its 2 gbit upload limit is a major and rising threat across America's cities. Really folks it's not so difficult as some of you make it out to be.P2P Piracy can be seriously curtailed. The internet as it stands today is actually quite fragile in terms of bandwidth. It is much more robust when it comes to preserving raw information.

Re:Problems

[ScrewMaster]

That would be a tough call for the big ISPs. Much as they hate heavy downloading the unfortunate reality is that millions of customers buy broadband for that reason ... Comcast and the telcos would lose mucho business if they simply kowtowed to the media outfits. That's why that haven't caved in to date (oh sure, Comcast an AT&T roll over on IP logs, but this packet forging of Comcast's is a matter of saving upstream costs not stopping copyright infringement.)

So, the ISPs would have to be offered something in return for their co-operation. Let's face it: the threat of a lawsuit doesn't frighten the big boys, remember how the RIAA tried that with Verizon and got their collective ass handed to them on a platter. Frankly, I'm not sure what the the media companies could give the big ISPs in return for shafting their customer base to the point of not having one.

Re:Problems

[JonathanR]

Very little effort would be expended on cracking DRM if the content was priced at what the natural market would bear. Apart from people wanting to watch the content on portable devices (iPods et al) most people will be quite ok with throwing the disk in their machine, sitting back and enjoying the show (maybe).

The attempts by MPAA and others to distort and manipulate free market forces results, as with every such attempt, in development of a black market. The problem with black markets, is that the legitimate producer of the goods has no way of knowing the real market volume of their content, and hence the potential market of their legitimate media. The only practical way to find out is to lower the price of legitimate media and observe the effect on overall revenue/profit.

Re:Problems

[eth1]

So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

Buy out allofmp3.com. If it was that easy for me to find what I want at a decent price/quality with no DRM, I'd have no problem paying for it.

Set it up so that it works like the automatic toll road tags - it charges your credit card $x every time your balance gets low, so there's no hassle with transactions for a few cents.

problem solved!

Re:Problems

[internewt]

I had a run in with a Disney DOOVDE a few weeks ago, Toy Story.

Unsurprisingly the copyright notices were unskippable, and on the screen long enough for the average Disney viewer (i.e. a kid who can't pronounce/understand most of the words) to be able to read! The trailers started, and they were unskippable, but you could fast forward through them. I still could not use the menu button to jump to that, the trailers had to be viewed, or FF'ed through! And there were a lot of trailers compared to what I'm used to seeing.... but as I stopped buying products with DRM when I realised what a fuck-you to the customer DRM is, I think I might be a little out of touch with hollywood's latest tricks.

Re:Problems

[Anonymous Coward]

82p * 25 is still more than I pay for a stack of 100 single layer discs. A little compression doesn't bother me when the media is so cheap for backups. I mostly just backup the movie anyways, ignoring the menus and extras.

Re:Problems

[Kjella]

The sneakernet's bandwidth is still very impressive... but today there's also the P2P2sneakernet protocol, which has both great bandwidth and none of the issues mentioned. In any case, they don't have any hope as long as people put no value to it. This summer, a friend of mine burned a DVD with MP3s and brought to a gathering we had, I brought a laptop and we had a stereo for playback. That's maybe 1000 songs, did he bother to bring it home or would he care if I gave it back? Nah. Why not, it's a $1,000 value on iTMS, or a $10,000,000 settlement with the RIAA? Well, to him it's basicly no value because he still has his copy. Likewise I've heard of similar stories with iPod music, people swap collections and they both have everything, or borrow and copy DVDs etc. People absolutely, positively don't care that others are copying their stuff. Or even if they're just giving it away or leaving it behind like a litterbug. There's just no way to win there.

Re:Problems

[Maltheus]

So ... if you were a big media company what would you do?

I'd sell people the rights to download the movie at any time (for a nominal ~$1 bandwidth fee per download) in the latest format. I'm sure I'm not the only one who got tired of buying the same media multiple times only to have a new tech supplant it two years later. I think piracy is a practical matter for many. It's not worth spending much money on something that you'll only get to watch a couple of times before it becomes obsolete.

Re:Problems

[petermgreen]

They just want to eliminate casual copying, and to that end good old CSS does just fine, when you get right down to it.
Maybe it stops some but the problem is cracks do spread even when those who distribute them too widely get threatened with lawsuits.

and once someone has a decrypter they can copy as many DVDs as they want.

With the HD stuff however they have managed to turn it into an arms race which should deter all but the most determined.

translation

[bvdbos]

English translation...

Re:translation

[thewils]

Thanks for that - I needed a good larf today :)

Re:translation

[breem42]

Geez! Not a single "reckon" in that thar translation!

Re:translation

[xednieht]

if that is a translation i am the fookin pope.

You gotta love babelfish

[Anonymous Coward]

Already LA of copy protect commission AACS ever since April 2007th when protection compromises, the horsepower film and the recall does the key for the drive assembly many times. Therefore as for the play of Katz and the mouse edition "MBKv4" really the edge should be found in 4th edition of the key which was changed. But Slysoft how now to transmit, edition AnyDVD and can decipher 6.1.9.3 from the MBKv4 disks. Following to the data of the enterprise of HP-DVD, "the transformer" was tested similar to the title of the light ray whose Spiderman Trilogie which was usually sold for the present is blue, the American horsepower disk. As for the chief Giancarlo of SlySoft Bettini in only that news release of the method of being used (the fact that it is "it it can pity of the young person whose one movie industry is bad") smirks, as for use recently really and the braker it continues at enterprise for calling vis-a-vis copy protect: As for a less conversion where "I many restrictions, keep the thing from pressure another action. "When, expedient of prevention the people who do not mean understand, you ask to by your, for the blue light ray player and protection ' BD ' following to itself virtual machine and Bettini of the device which plays has cracked, already. There are times when the software already operates because of that in one, last work of the equipment still it is in the midst of using. Bettini still promised the publication of the program before the end annual 2007. But it goes around the expedient of copy protect after the German right, use of the program is illegal.

Degrees of distance

[Anonymous Coward]

My sister's daughter's classmate's parents overheard someone saying they cracked some HD disc stuff..
Can this be any more indirect than my bacon number?

In other news...

[MachineShedFred]

... Blu-ray player sales are up 4000%

Re:In other news...

[ThirdPrize]

Wow, was that 4 Blu-Ray DVD players or 4 players and a PS3?

Re:In other news...

[TemporalBeing]

... Blu-ray player sales are up 4000%

What someone bought another one?

Re:In other news...

[king-manic]

... Blu-ray player sales are up 4000% What someone bought another one?

You mean they only managed to sell 1/40th of one before this?

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ha ha good one!

But in all seriousness, it's not been a good week for the Microsoft fanbois as the PS3 is now outselling it in Europe 2 to 1. Even the PSP is outselling the Xbox! Ouch, that's gotta hurt.

Re:In other news...

[JK_the_Slacker]

Darnit, you guys weren't supposed to find out I put one on layaway!

Re:In other news...

[MrSteveSD]

You joke, but these days, with so many portable video devices, what is the point of buying media you can't rip?

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

The other one was a rented model and the renter only paid 1/40th of the price so far.

Re:In other news...

[jd]

No, a person bought one but only returned 39/40ths of it to the store the next day.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that was me; all I could afford was the power cord.

Re:In other news...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called PS3. Someone has bought one. Or so I heared.

Re:In other news...

[ArsenneLupin]

... Blu-ray player sales are up 4000% What someone bought another one? <MathNaziMode> One additional sale can never account for a 4000% raise. You need at least 40 additional sales for that. Unless you consider that so far 0.025 Blu-ray players have been sold... (what's that, somebody bought only the LED?) </MathNaziMode>

Re:So..... this means that

[Workaphobia]

I hope not. I (seriously) just finished memorizing 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0. And I've only had the T-shirt for a few months.

crack?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that the crack?

Re:crack?

[s.bots]

At one time it was a crack, then the crack turned into a crevice, then that crevice turned into a gorge.

The gorge then morphed into a GAPING HOLE OF NO RETURN.

Re:crack?

[MR.Mic]

Oh no!

It's GOATSE!!!!

Re:crack?

[Anonymous Coward]

Offtopic, but still funny as hell.

Direct TV

[puck01]

What about Direct TV? Since they updated to the P4 or higher, I'm not aware of anyone that's cracked their copy-protection/content protection scheme....just some unverified rumors. I haven't checked up on it recently, so I'd be interested to find out if I'm wrong.

Re:Direct TV

[Em Adespoton]

This raises an interesting point... why don't the movie moguls just go to a smart card based system? All hardware players are shipped with a SIM that comes from the distributors, software players require a reader hooked up to the PC. If a key is cracked, the SIM range is blocked on future discs, and a person needs to get their SIM replaced but can keep the same hardware. As with Direct TV, there are multiple ways to beat the system, but the moving target is MUCH easier for the media moguls to keep up with. On the PC side, this SIM card could also be used to provide online content to people with a specific disc in their drive, which would tie the SIM into a service agreement that could be revoked when evidence of tampering is found. Not that I'm FOR any of this mind you (except for the online streaming content), but this system seems so much more obviously effective than what they're trying to do right now. Think about it: buy the box set to your favourite TV show and get access to bonus features, interviews, and a sampling of later shows not included in the set via an online service via keys stored on your SIM and on the disc. They wouldn't even need user-side DRM, but could use it as device verification for your free subscription account instead.

Re:Direct TV

[Brian Gordon]

Not that I'm FOR any of this mind you but this system seems so much more obviously effective... Exactly how the MPAA engineers justified themselves to their collective consciences?

Re:Direct TV

[Zironic]

Like, the content would have to be downloaded to the pc and thus it would be trivial to get rid of the DRM yet again.

Re:Direct TV

[geekoid]

The sounds of riffling through stacks of hundred dollar bills probably tend to muffle the conscience.

Re:Direct TV

[LordSnooty]

Streaming the data live over a network is surely the only way they will be able to keep a lid on it, as opposed to giving the data to the consumer for them to play with and crack. As you point satellite services like DirectTV & Sky have the problem down to no more than a nuisance. Cable services even less so, certainly in Europe (ripping off cable is more of a theme in the US from what I gather). But it seems to me that the whole idea of giving physical copies of the data will be thrown out eventually.

Re:Direct TV

[bikin]

TV hooked to PC? Coming from the Rootkit guys, your friends in the MAFIAA et al. You'll see me installing that when hell freezes over or when the average slashdoter gets Angelina Jolie (or any woman for what it matters) to bed, whichever happens first :-)

Besides, who will play for the new SIMs?

In case the users have to pay, I can imagine the following letter:

Dear Customer,

We are glad to inform that we are improving your service and giving amazing mind-blowing features this month, with a new SIM card that you can buy for just 9.99*. You'll be able to see "Behind the Scenes" of "Behind the Scenes" of every single blockbuster. Please, don't worry if you still haven't received the previous SIM Card you've purchased 4 days ago, the new one will contain all the features included in that one and more! And of course, we will notify you if there are any new improvements in the forthcoming months. [In VERY small print] *Purchase compulsory. Does not include VAT, tithe and/or protection, depending on your state. If you complain, try to complain, make any attempt to complain, hamper with the hardware, touch it, try to use it or anything similar, we will be entitled to confiscate your house, partner and/or children, and you'll be named "unlawful combatant" by the US Government and judged by a military court, as per decree issued by Her Royal Majesty Jenna W. Bush. In case the MAFIAA pays... that will never happen, anyway.

Re:Direct TV

[cheater512]

I think that would just make it easier. People can eavesdrop on smart cards.

Re:Direct TV

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

Exactly how the MPAA engineers justified themselves to their collective consciences?

Probably not nearly as many who were doing it help the music industry to survive against piracy. Probably again dwarfed by the number of people who didn't care, and just did their job. It's not like they were doing anything that's generally considered immoral.

Re:Direct TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe they could just throw in the towel and live with it knowing that no matter what they try it will be impossible to stop.

Re:Direct TV

[noname444]

No copy protection system, however elaborate, is impossible to crack. Once a system has been cracked, all the fuzz with smartcards and whatnot you're speaking of will remain for the legitimate customers. The movie pirates on the other hand will simply download a non-drm-encumbered version of the movie from their favorite source, and then copy and play it as they like. Only one "guy/girl on the internet" has to go through with all the cracking, ripping, encoding etc. of the movies. Once that first drm-free copy has been created, it can be distributed freely.
As long as you can watch movies, the movie companies can only make it harder to copy their media, but never impossible. The more elaborate the copy protection systems get, the more the legitimate customers suffer, while the pirates stay largely unaffected.

Re:Direct TV

[Tweekster]

to play devils advocate. they dont care about the hardcore people that will crack it no matter what. but you know a number of people that are casual copiers. they rent crack and copy dvds effortlessly. That is the aim. that and control. but if they can stop the casual copiers. that is what they want.

Re:Direct TV

[Ddalex]

Shhht, don't give'em ideas!

Re:Direct TV

[harl]

Quote 1 from your post

why don't the movie moguls just go to a smart card based system? Quote 2 from your post

there are multiple ways to beat the system If it can still be broken why bother?

DRM can't work. It's impossible. I'm sure someone with more math skills than I can prove that. Rather than waste resources on a failed business model they should spend those resources to be on the leading edge of a new business model.

Hell if they'd created Napster and simply collected ad revenue I wonder how much they would have made by now.

Re:Direct TV

[PorkNutz]

Not much point to cracking DirecTV when Dish Network is laid open like a sacrificed cow.

Re:Direct TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Didnt even read you post - reason described below:

Repeat after me:

There is no way to control data after it was given away until you can control all equipment
that the data passes (including the human brain). It will not work. Never. Ever. No way.
You can not give data away and at the same time not give up control over it.

Jesus...

Re:Direct TV

[puck01]

Absolutely, yet no one has cracked Direct TVs current system that I'm aware of. Just because you can monitor the communication doesn't equal being able to crack.

Re:Direct TV

[walt-sjc]

All this protection does is piss off consumers.

We want to be able to watch content whenever, wherever, however (&*^%& DVD menu restrictions) on whatever device we choose.

Hackers will always find a way. If it takes a hardware hack to grab the decrypted (pre / post HDCP) stream out a player / TV or other device, it will be done. Real-time capture of uncompressed HD is feasible for under $1K (plus PC costs.) Yeah, re-compression is still slow, but modern multi-core processors are making it faster all the time.

All it takes is a handful of people to have such a hacked devices / systems and content is freed / available via torrent.

Re:Direct TV

[quanticle]

Not if the content was programmed to only play in the presence of the smart card.

Re:Direct TV

[cayenne8]

"This raises an interesting point... why don't the movie moguls just go to a smart card based system? All hardware players are shipped with a SIM that comes from the distributors, software players require a reader hooked up to the PC. If a key is cracked, the SIM range is blocked on future discs, and a person needs to get their SIM replaced but can keep the same hardware."

I think because you would have a LONG way to go to get Joe Average consumer to even understand what this new paradigm is that you're touting.

Remember, most people do not have broadband....many do not have any internet connectivity at all...and MOST people out there...assume once you buy a player, it will play forever till it breaks. They would never assume that they, as a consumer would ever have to change out anything or update anything just to keep it working legally. They don't have home networks that can connect to all their components....and I can't see expecting Joe Average to periodically have to run somewhere to change out a piece of hardware....hell, changing batteries on things is beyond many in Joe Average's family, seriously.

Take this scenario in your world. The sim for the new blockbuster kids movie XYZ has been cracked. It is Xmas day, and 'Santa' brings the XYZ dvd to little joey average....Dad pops it into the player...it won't play. Now...even if Dad knows the reason and needs a new sim...nothing is open on Xmas day...little joey is crying, and Dad's not happy. That kind of stuff in consumer-land, just isn't going to work. A consumer expects that if he buys a player for music or video....once he can actually get it hooked up (no small feat for JA), that it will just work when he pops in the media.

Re:Direct TV

[Anonymous Coward]

As a client I would accept this only if the card you be shipped to me for free on a regular basis (as in "not too late for me to watch my favorite movies").
This is done successfully by several cell-phone providers (a free phone every 1 or 2 years), my oncle only stays with it's cell provider because he loves getting that latest tech device without having to ask for it once a year. I've seen him, It's like Christmas in July.

But the way of doing business of the **AA is rather to give the least they possibly can (in term of cost) for the maximum amount of $$ in return. To sell you a 15-20$ item that cost them 0.5 to 1$ is the norm (Worked for 40 years, why change?)

Without near-automatic card changes, numerous clients would start returning movies when they not work, in the long run buying a lot less, and avoid the technology/method altogether after 2 or 3 card changes.

Re:Direct TV

[Zironic]

in the presence of the smart card the content will have to be displayed and thus free to get copied.

Re:Direct TV

[vtscott]

to play devils advocate. they dont care about the hardcore people that will crack it no matter what. but you know a number of people that are casual copiers. they rent crack and copy dvds effortlessly. That is the aim. that and control. but if they can stop the casual copiers. that is what they want.

I agree, but I think this is an indication of how out of touch these media cartels are with what's really going on out there even after all these years. The hardcore copiers (the ones that likely won't be stopped by DRM) are also more likely to put their copies up on bittorrent. The casual copiers are likely making backups (which is legal and should be easy anyways), or at worst ripping movies they rented and maybe giving a few friends copies. Yet this is all the MPAA is really preventing with their copy protection.

So after all that effort, blu-ray movies will still end up on bittorrent while paying customers are punished. Way to go MPAA.

Re:Direct TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep Totally immune to hacking, Never been hacked, never been cloned, never been Completely replace by something else (ATmega128/256)
pc emulation, Blazer boards, battery cards,& Koreans out to make a buck on "FTA" my apologies on anything i left out its been a long old road since vc2.

Re:Direct TV

[Em Adespoton]

You've missed the point... please re-read my post.

Re:Direct TV

[Em Adespoton]

Guess you should have read my post... including the parts where it said that there's no way to prevent DRM cracking.

Re:Direct TV

[GWBasic]

This raises an interesting point... why don't the movie moguls just go to a smart card based system? All hardware players are shipped with a SIM that comes from the distributors, software players require a reader hooked up to the PC. If a key is cracked, the SIM range is blocked on future discs, and a person needs to get their SIM replaced but can keep the same hardware.

Why? Well, it's too complex and expensive. Who wants to buy a device that requires you to change a card every 2-3 weeks when such "upgrades" provide no tangible advantage? I won't!

Besides, I think AACS allows for some kind of a soft update to be silently distributed on newer disks. I'm not 100% sure of this, however.

Re:Direct TV

[Em Adespoton]

AACS provides for updating of the encryption key; what I'm talking about is the other side of the equation: doing what DirectTV and software publishers do and blocking out the user's key. This is unlikely to happen every 2-3 weeks, as we're talking about blocks of 1000 cards or so being blocked when one of the cards in that range is flagged as being cracked. It is used more as a way of tracking down infringers and providing added services that make the DRM worth the average consumer's while, not protecting the content from being copied like AACS does. The AACS method results in a never-ending arms race that the producers will always just lose, no matter how much time and money they throw at it.

Re:Direct TV

[GWBasic]

But I'm not sure you need an exchangable card to do that... Let's say that each player has its own unique key, as opposed to a manufacturer's key in CSS. Assuming that you anticipate that 1 billion unique players are made, and that each key is 32-bits, you only need to dedicate 4 gigabytes of each disk to providing encryption keys. A player's key can be revoked, all other players will work.

I do agree that copy protection is futile, at least on media that's intended for wide distribution.

Re:Direct TV

[Ernesto Alvarez]

4GB worth of keys is almost a full DVD! I know BD and HD-DVD have more capacity than that, but 4GB is an awfully big chunk. At the same time, 32 bits keys are trivial to bruteforce. It would depend on the details of your mechanism, but even if the pirates have to find a particular key, 2^32 attempts is well within a typical PC's reach. That not even considering you could crack it just by finding one key of the bunch (in that case, that's a one in four chance).

Those keys will get cracked like mad, and innocent people will find themselves with a useless player. I'd say it would be more annoying than the current situation.

Futile is the right word.

Re:Direct TV

[GWBasic]

4GB worth of keys is almost a full DVD!

My tounge was planted firmly in my cheek.

Just cracked?

[Splab]

I'm a bit confused about what has been cracked and not, lately quite a lot of BlueRay and HDDVD movies have shown up in 1080p format on my favorite torrent site. Ok, they might not have "cracked it" whatever that means, but they sure as hell have started distributing the movies.

Re:Just cracked?

[Anonymous Coward]

most likely satellite rips

Re:Just cracked?

[Anonymous Coward]

BD+ is just cracked. Regular BD has been cracked for a while. BD+ was an extra security measure added to BluRay "just in case" regular BD was cracked. If BD+ is properly cracked, it's game over for BluRay, just like it is already game over for HD DVD.

Re:Just cracked?

[Vadim Makarov]

I'm not sure how it's done. A few movies I've downloaded are in the .ts files, which means MPEG-2 transport stream (used with unreliable connections, as opposed to program stream used with local media). This means it's a broadcast rip?

It's very amazing I could watch such gems as BBC Planet Earth now in true HDTV quality without ever buying the player (which my employer won't buy for my computer, anyway). You can get Planet Earth and some movies here.

Re:Just cracked?

[powerlord]

BD+ is just cracked. Regular BD has been cracked for a while. BD+ was an extra security measure added to BluRay "just in case" regular BD was cracked. If BD+ is properly cracked, it's game over for BluRay, just like it is already game over for HD DVD.

As an added note. The reason "Regular BD" and HD DVD are both already cracked, is that they both used the same protection scheme.

As you mentioned, BD+ was an additional Blu-Ray only protection scheme.

Of course, if BD+ is cracked, it doesn't mean it's "game over", only that people can now get either format, without worrying about having their media locked down (similar to how people NOW view DVDs).

keeping people in a job...

[logicassasin]

This "War On Piracy" does nothing more than keep people in jobs, much like the "War On Drugs". Like the drug war, piracy cannot be stopped unless it's made legal, but to do that you would put those in charge of fighting said illegal activity out of a job.

It's stupid...

Any digital content that can be seen or heard can be duplicated with some form of analog technology. Copy protected CD's can be recorded with near perfect quality simply by flying the audio from a CD player into a PC equipped with a $100 pro-level audio card (like the Emu 0404 or M-Audio Audiophile 2496). DRM protected mp3/wma/etc files can be duplicated through two pc's in exactly the same fashion as a CD. Copy protected DVD's can be duplicated by recording it's content from a DVD player into a PC with a decent video capture card.

And that's just the tip of it.

Nothing they do keeps DVD's off the streets. Every trip to the grocery store I make, I get a guy or gal coming up to me selling the latest movie for $10 on DVD (3 for $25!) or the latest yet-to-be-released CD for $5.

It's not going to stop. No amount of copy protection will help, no law passed will deter, it's a useless waste of money, but it keeps a few folks in a job.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Exactly why do people insist on comparing "Piracy" to "Controlled Substances". I don't remember the last time Piracy altered somebody's life, caused physical distress or even death, or even contributed to a fatal car accident. The "War on Drugs" exists for a reason. The war on Piracy is made up by the RIAA/MPAA because they think they can brainwash us enough to think that we can't make copies of our own content for backup or use.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[cdrguru]

The difference between a backup and restribution is exactly what? Sure, there is a different to the person doing it but at one step removed from the actual process what precisely is the different?

Nothing.

This means that until copyright has some kind of respect it really needs to be abolished. Start with the law that says if it isn't nailed down it will be stolen. Private property is meaningless - unless defended with lethal force. If is possible to copy, it will be redistributed. Period. This would inject a sense of reality into common dealing with merchants, laborors and government agencies. You would understand why there is an armed guard at the exit of every store. You would understand why people insist they must live in gated communitied with guards, guard dogs and high fences.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

The "War on Drugs" exists for a reason.

To fuel police corruption and organized crime?

Re:keeping people in a job...

[courseofhumanevents]

I don't remember the last time Piracy altered somebody's life, caused physical distress or even death, or even contributed to a fatal car accident. First two have been accomplished by lawsuits, and I'm sure they're working on the last one.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[noidentity]

"Nothing they do keeps DVD's off the streets. Every trip to the grocery store I make, I get a guy or gal coming up to me selling the latest movie for $10 on DVD (3 for $25!) or the latest yet-to-be-released CD for $5."

And these cheaper versions don't have annoying unskippable FBI warnings, disclaimers, and advertisements (er, previews) that you have to watch before you are allowed to watch the actual movie.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[logicassasin]

It's the methods of deterance that makes them similar. That, along with the fact that you can never make either go away. They both broadcast their busts, campaign against said illegal activity, shows how both hurt the economy and neither accomplishes the intended goal. The war on drugs also serves to keep useful substances off of the market for fear that their proliferation would harm major industries (large scale Hemp production alone could threaten pretty much every major industry in the US from cotton to pharmaceuticals to oil).

"I don't remember the last time Piracy altered somebody's life, caused physical distress or even death, or even contributed to a fatal car accident." ... You've never seen "Soul Plane"... Have you?

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

No. I think it is hilarious how people somehow think it is logical to say that a response to a problem is the cause of said problem. Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time? Do you really think Crack Cocaine belongs on the streets? Do you think that Children will not be able to aquire Crack Cocaine once it's price has plummeted? Or maybe you prefer our kids to have Black Tar Heroine? Really I could care less what people do in their personal time but if you think that legalizing drugs will not have an effect on society in general and even yourself then you are dillusional. I for one don't want to deal with my neighbor dancing around my condo complex naked and screaming because he took some PCP and is having a bad trip.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

The piracy was not the cause though, it was the frivolous lawsuit that altered lives. Drugs alter lives directly.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

I would have no problem with Hemp being legalized. They should just regulate the process of becoming a hemp grower so people don't start a side business with their MJ. Hemp is great and yes it should replace all paper.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[sexconker]

Couldn't care less.

The expression is "couldn't care less".
It means you do not care at all, so you could not care less.
If you "could care less", that means you do care.

I'll just save this in a text file and paste it every time I see this error.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Em Adespoton]

Exactly why do people insist on comparing "Piracy" to "Controlled Substances". I don't remember the last time Piracy altered somebody's life, caused physical distress or even death, or even contributed to a fatal car accident.

You obviously haven't read about this piracy story. Apparently, the war on piracy was having an effect since 2003 when it began, but piracy has made a comeback in 2007.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[geekoid]

"Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time?"

Of course they would. Taxes aren't some ultimate evil that people would rather risk getting shot then buying at a legal source. Not to mention the taxed ones would be dosed, better quality controlled, and CHEAPER. Mass production and competition would drive the price down.

"Do you really think Crack Cocaine belongs on the streets?"
No, I think it belongs at a legal store, and that adults should be able to do it at home if they so choose. Cocaine has been used for a long time, and in fact it used to be cut by pharmacist for personal use by little old ladies.
It's not evil, but by making it some shady dealing where people have to risk there lives, and are afraid of being an outcast is.

"Do you think that Children will not be able to aquire Crack Cocaine once it's price has plummeted?"
They get it all they want NOW you idiot. It is easier for them to get it now because they people selling it to them have nothing more to loose. Legalizing would drive those people out of business and dry up the only source available to 'children'. Not completely, but it would be harder to get drugs then now.

"Really I could care less what people do in their personal time but if you think that legalizing drugs will not have an effect on society in general and even yourself then you are dillusional."

Of course it will have an effect, a positive one.
You're neighbor can get it now, if he so chooses. So that's not really an issue. More to the point, your neighbor won't be screaming because he will get a correct dose at a regulated purity. Not to mention that rarely happens anyways.

I used to spiel the same line you are, but I did about 3 years of research into legalization, the myths taught to young people, and actual studied effects of drug use.

Right now, there are two benefactors of drug prohibition:
1) The drug lords
2) Law enforcement

Re:keeping people in a job...

[safXmal]

Why would you try to avoid having a legal trade in marihuana? It is not physically addictive - as is alcohol - and it has no long term side effects.
I agree that some people get mentally dependent on it but they would get addicted to something anyway.
I get a feeling you are jealous of people having a good time.

Don't presume I don't know the problem with MJ. I was one of the problem people but I would never say that MJ harmed me. It was all my doing

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Icarus1919]

I invite you to take a closer look at the history of prohibition. People will do the narcotics they want, regardless of the legality of their actions. At the least, you can collect some taxes from it and stop drug runners from making all the cash do, having people get hurt from tainted drugs, and cutting out the violence from the drug trade. All of the above happened when prohibition ended. It did nothing except put money in the hands of criminals.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[nuzak]

There's really no point in arguing with the Drug Warriors. They see only two modes in which things can operate:

A) Pervasive drug testing, anonymous informants, civil forfeiture, and general kicking down of doors anywhere and anytime.

OR

B) 7-11 puts black tar heroin in slurpees and puppy chow.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[ptbarnett]

Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time?

When Prohibition ended, that's pretty much what happened with alcohol.

Do you really think Crack Cocaine belongs on the streets?

Since crack was invented to sell expensive cocaine in smaller and more affordable doses, it would probably disappear if cocaine were available legally at a reasonable price.

Do you think that Children will not be able to acquire Crack Cocaine once it's price has plummeted?

Probably. But, how many distillers or brewers do you see hanging around schools, offering free samples of alcoholic beverages?

Really I could care less what people do in their personal time but if you think that legalizing drugs will not have an effect on society in general and even yourself then you are dillusional.

I know it will have an effect, so I'm guess I'm not delusional. But, the real question is: how much damage is the War on Some Drugs doing to our society? Is it less or more than legalization of drugs?

Proponents of Prohibition put forth exactly the same arguments as you have. Unfortunately, we (as a society) have forgotten the lessons from Prohibition.

Organized crime made a fortune off Prohibition, and the resulting corruption permeated throughout law enforcement and the criminal justice system.

Violent crime dropped significantly after Prohibition was repealed.

Today, the profits from illegal drugs funds gangs throughout North and South America. These gangs fight among each other to protect their business, just as they did during Prohibition.

Why did we repeal Prohibition, but retain and strengthen the prohibitions on other mood-altering substances? It's in the Congressional Record: alcohol was the drug of choice for the white majority. The Record doesn't actually say that, but it does make it clear what racial and cultural minorities were being targeted.

I for one don't want to deal with my neighbor dancing around my condo complex naked and screaming because he took some PCP and is having a bad trip.

The legal status of PCP isn't going to prevent or facilitate this kind of idiot behavior. It's just a modern form of natural selection.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Cheesey]

Some apparent misconceptions:

• Legalising drugs would not destroy the black market. Wrong. The black market survives because it can charge vastly inflated prices for items due to the inherent risks of the trade and the restricted supply. Your local drug dealers do not want drugs to be legalised, because they would be out of business: unable to compete with large corporations such as tobacco and alcohol companies who are absolute experts at distributing intoxicants to customers at minimum cost.
  
• All drugs would be legalised. Clearly there are some drugs that should not be legalised. I don't know of anyone who would argue in favour of legalising Rohypnol, for example. But if a drug is widely used, and the profits from this use are putting billions of $s into organised crime every year, then surely keeping it illegal is as foolish as prohibiting alcohol again?
  
• Legalising drugs would give children easier access to drugs. Wrong. The market would be regulated to minimise this possibility. Currently the market is unregulated, so there is nothing to stop children gaining access to harmful substances. Destroying the black market and replacing it with a legal and regulated market would prevent this.
  

If you still think drugs shouldn't be legal, well, you are entitled to your opinion. Many people feel that drug use is immoral in some sense, although for some reason they do not apply this objection to the drugs that they personally enjoy (alcohol, caffeine, etc.). But keeping popular drugs illegal does more harm than good, by funding organised crime and creating a vast and unregulated black market that can supply anything (even Rohypnol) to anyone (even children).

Re:keeping people in a job...

[AcidPenguin9873]

I agree with your first two points. I disagree with the last one.

Legalising drugs would give children easier access to drugs...Destroying the black market and replacing it with a legal and regulated market would prevent this. Ever seen 15 year old kids drinking their parents' beer in a park, or smoking, or hanging around outside the local liquor store giving people $20 to buy them alcohol? It would definitely happen with other drugs. And what regulations would you propose that wouldn't be tantamount to making the drugs illegal?

Re:keeping people in a job...

[tepples]

The expression is "couldn't care less".
It means you do not care at all, so you could not care less.
If you "could care less", that means you do care.

I'll just save this in a text file and paste it every time I see this error. Good. I'll just say "could barely care less" to throw grammar national socialists off balance.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[zippthorne]

There are national security reasons for prohibiting drug use, especially the highly addictive stuff. You don't want a nation of unproductive slobs concerned with little more than their next fix and damaged by repeated chemical abuse. It reduces the production capacity of the nation, which strategically is a pretty poor idea.

Of course, reducing the production capacity of the nation by outsourcing all the manufacturing to our most powerful potential enemy probably isn't the best of ideas, either...

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

No. I think it is hilarious how people somehow think it is logical to say that a response to a problem is the cause of said problem.

But the war on drugs is not a response to a problem. Drugs were made illegal because of racist propaganda and the desire of DuPont to replace hemp fibre with synthetics like nylon.

Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time?

But they already do - drugs being illegal make them thousands of times more costly than what they would cost on an open market. That's why drug-related crime would be a problem. Besides, I don't remember saying anything about taxes. You could always grow your own.

Do you really think Crack Cocaine belongs on the streets?

It's not a question of whether it "belongs" there - the fact is that if people want to use something, they will do it regardless of the law.

Do you think that Children will not be able to aquire Crack Cocaine once it's price has plummeted?

If cocaine were legalized, then why would you choose crack cocaine, when you could get quality powder cocaine for cheap prices? People use crack because it's cheaper than the expensive powder cocaine. Without the black market pushing up prices, there'd be less of a market for crack.

Or maybe you prefer our kids to have Black Tar Heroine?

No, but kids can get it if they want now. Having it illegal is not going to change that. Especially as children are usually considered too young to jail. So what difference would it make to them? With drugs being illegal, pushers have an incentive to push heroin onto people, because it is profitable. If there aren't those black-market profits, there wouldn't be any incentive for dealers to promote hard drugs. And once again, heroin is like crack. Under a legal system, you could just smoke opium instead - much healthier. Heroin exists because it gets more bang for the buck than opium, because of the high prices created by the black market.

I for one don't want to deal with my neighbor dancing around my condo complex naked and screaming because he took some PCP and is having a bad trip.

How does drugs being illegal stop that? People do that now. Except we have overcrowded prisons, and drug addicts won't seek rehabilitation or medical treatment for their problem, because of fear of jail if they are honest about their habit.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

This "War On Piracy" does nothing more than keep people in jobs, much like the "War On Drugs". Like the drug war, piracy cannot be stopped unless it's made legal, but to do that you would put those in charge of fighting said illegal activity out of a job.

Proof? Evidence? Congratulations logicassassin, you have succeeded in your mission objective.

What's far more likely is that the "War on Piracy" is to stop piracy from becoming an accepted part of modern culture, which would be disastrous for the music industry. It's not like the music industry wants to keep employing all these people, paying them all good money just so they can hunt out and prosecute pirates. They'd rather the piracy stop and the employment stop.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[jagdish]

Whenever, we dont like some thing we declare war on it. we dont do anything, we just declare war on it. (I think this is from Carlin.)

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

Ever seen 15 year old kids drinking their parents' beer in a park, or smoking, or hanging around outside the local liquor store giving people $20 to buy them alcohol?

The difference is that the kids are drinking beer and other alcoholic drinks that are quality-controlled, subject to inspection of health authorities, with a regulated amount of alcohol in them. They aren't drinking rubbing alcohol, they aren't drinking moonshine made in a bathtub that will make them blind. So, the negative consequences are minimized. It works exactly the same with drugs. Today kids do use drugs, but they are using the equivalent of moonshine - highly variable, unpredictable stuff that could be adulterated with who-knows-what. Better that they are on the legally regulated pharmaceutical-quality stuff, rather than what comes from a random "meth lab" in a trailerpark.

And what regulations would you propose that wouldn't be tantamount to making the drugs illegal?

Health and safety regulations, age restrictions. These are both applied to alcohol, and nobody considers alcohol illegal because of them.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

You don't want a nation of unproductive slobs concerned with little more than their next fix and damaged by repeated chemical abuse.

But drug abuse has actually increased since drugs were made illegal. So that doesn't seem to be stopping anyone from being unproductive.

You don't want a nation of unproductive slobs concerned with little more than their next fix and damaged by repeated chemical abuse.

I don't know anybody who would decide to try addictive drugs just because they became legal. Either they are already using the drugs illegally, or they would never try them in the first place.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't remember the last time Piracy altered somebody's life, caused physical distress or even death, or even contributed to a fatal car accident. The "War on Drugs" exists for a reason.

Yeah. Just not for a good reason. Why is it that the leading causes of death like automobiles, tobacco, alcohol, foods laden with cholesterol, among other things, are socially/politically accepted, but marijuana, heroin, cocaine, etc. are deemed the absolute scourge of society? Dude, you have no sense of proportion. None. Nada.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[sjames]

Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time?

Why not? People regularly pay taxes for alcohol now when they used to buy bathtub gin tax free.

As for crack prices, at $5/rock, it's not the price that keeps kids from buying it. What makes you think that the illegality is what keeps everyone from doing hard drugs? Just how many people are thinking "I'd LOVE to be a junkie but it's soooo illegal, darnit!"

The war on drugs kills people daily. First it provides fat profit margins to violent criminal organiations. Second, it leaves them no legal recourse to settle disputes, so they use guns instead. Third, police have killed a few innocent people in connection with drug raids based on faulty information.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[sjames]

About the same number that I have seen smoking weed (or offering to sell me weed). It seems the law isn't making much of a difference. It will happen no matter the legal status. The only difference is a few bad decisions with weed can easily send them in the wrong direction due to the so called justice system. The same bad decisions with alcohol are more likely to get someone killed (still not honestly that likely) but less likely to screw the survivors up for life. Again, this has nothing to do with the effects of the drug, but is based on the screwy way society treats their use.

Were weed legal for adults and a misdemenor for minors (even if a felony for adults to sell to minors), it would probably cause less problems than alcohol.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[sjames]

Part of that is actually selction bias. Some people are simply dysfunctional and drugs is the first thing they run afoul of. You don't SEE the perfrctly functional users of illegal drugs because they can easily hide their use. Sort of like you can't really know without asking if most people drink or not, but there are a few dysfunctional people who drink so much that it becomes very obvious.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Tweekster]

"What's far more likely is that the "War on Piracy" is to stop piracy from becoming an accepted part of modern culture"

I think they should run up the old "mission accomplished" banner on that front.

They are simply going to have to accept that casual copying IS a part of modern culture

Re:keeping people in a job...

[TheVelvetFlamebait]

They are simply going to have to accept that casual copying IS a part of modern culture

Not yet. Most people who pirate feel a degree of guilt when they do it, and people who do it are still viewed as selfish and immoral. Besides, even if it does become an acceptable part of modern culture, there's nothing stopping the MPAA from changing it back.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[SEE]

Even if all controlled substances were legal do you think people would just start paying taxes on their purchases of crack cocaine when they haven't had to for all this time? Yes. The tax collection would be done at the distributor/retailer level, not the individual-filing-taxes level. If crack cocaine were sold for a 1000% markup over what it costs to buy coca leaves and process them into crack, and then were taxed at 1000% of that price, the price would still be cheaper than the current street prices. Same with non-crack cocaine, heroin, and a long list of other drugs.

Do you really think Crack Cocaine belongs on the streets? Given that it's already on the streets, does it matter what I believe? You might as well ask me if I think people should get the common cold.

Do you think that Children will not be able to aquire Crack Cocaine once it's price has plummeted? Are you so delusional as to believe they can't already acquire it? (The whole point of crack was that it was a cheaper form of cocaine than powder.)

I for one don't want to deal with my neighbor dancing around my condo complex naked and screaming because he took some PCP and is having a bad trip. Tell me, what do you think is currently stopping people from dancing around your condo complex naked and shouting because they drank too much alcohol and are shit-faced drunk?

Yes, there will be increased drug use with legalization; there was increased alcohol use after Prohibition was ended, too. However, there will be fewer cartel lords getting rich off drugs, fewer gangbangers getting into street wars, fewer innocent people getting shot because of no-knock drug raids that hit the wrong house, fewer drug users getting killed by adulterated drugs, a lot of prison capacity freed up, a lot more cops available to police the remaining criminal activity (including the crimes committed by people who commit them when high), and more tax money to be spent on useful things.

Marijuana, cocaine, opium, and heroin were all legal products in the United States available in the crowded urban cores of the late 19th Century, but none of them caused nearly as much trouble in society as alcohol. And none of the social problems caused by alcohol were as big as those caused by alcohol prohibition. Similarly, the social problems that will be caused by use of legal hard drugs in the modern era will almost certainly be smaller than either the problems caused by legal alcohol or the problems caused by drug prohibition. (And if by some one-in-ten-thousand chance they aren't, we can turn around and outlaw them again.)

Re:keeping people in a job...

[leomekenkamp]

You are using reason. Stop that. The subject is drugs, so we should all let our primordial fears and emotions take precedence over using the higher parts of our brains.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Really I could care less what people do in their personal time I don't believe you.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Princess Dana was a home taper.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Yes, I read that. Especially off the coast of Somalia. In fact last thing I read was a US Destoyer was chasing some Pirates. That wasn't the kind of Piracy I was refering to though.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

That's great that you "Studied" the effects of drugs. I actually have known drug users first hand and have seen the long term effects of such usage. The Government has a right to ban certain things because they are unsafe. Look as Asbestos. That stuff has so many benefits it's ridiculous. It is also one of the most dangerous substances around given long term exposure. So the Government outlawed its use. It is the same with PCP or any other Hallucinagenic drug. They don't belong on the streets and they for sure do not belong in stores. Look, a lot of the drugs you would push to legalize are actually dangerous. Ecstacy, often touted as one of the most safe drugs around has been proven to cause permanent damage to the saratonin releasers in your brain leading users to become people who have no moods at all or what I like to refer to as E-Tards. I've actually known people like this so don't tell me it doesn't happen.

The solution to all of the World's evils are not to legalize them. I understand the whole, legalize and regulate mantra but the things you regulate will just cause black markets of their own where you can get unregulated drugs so that doesn't work. Should we legalize Slavery and regulate that? You know there is a big black market worldwide of slave trade. The State Department does a report on it every year. Is this your answer to that problem too?

Look, Law enforcement has a goal to reduce crime. If a Police Chief of a major city cannot reduce crime then most likely he's on his way out. So law enforcement does not want more laws to enforce; they want less. They also want to prevent crimes before they happen. It's not logical to assert that law enforcement actually wants the war on drugs in order to ensure their jobs. You might argue that they want more Speed Laws but not the war on drugs. At lease with Speed Laws their life is almost never in danger, they make money, and its super easy to write up almost any law abiding citizen. I think that Driving around while high on Methanphetamines is a little more dangerous then speeding. There is no way Drugs should ever be legalized, period.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

People will do the narcotics they want, regardless of the legality of their actions.

I'd argue with you here but I'll post a question instead. Would you do drugs if your work had random drug testing and fired anybody who came up postive?

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

I'd like Tobacco to be outlawed too but that's another discussion. Cars don't kill people; bad and distracted drivers do. Cholesterol is already on it's way out of food but it will take another 10-20 years to be down to the levels it should be at.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Do you think Criminals would not find another Black Market to jump into if the Drug Market went away? They'll all become pimps or start selling something else illegal. In the city I used to live in the criminals actually shot at the cops and tried to drive them off the road. Do you think they'll all just become law abiding citizens when drugs are legal? Also last time I checked the polls most people responded to the question "Are you activelly trying to stay out of pound me in the ass prison by being a law abiding citizen?" the response was Yes with a percentage of almost 99%.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cars don't kill people; bad and distracted drivers do.

No cars = no bad and distracted drivers. You're not going to win over anyone who has a brain with the argument that illegal drugs should remain so because of health concerns. It's completely unsupportable.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Why does Slashdot allow Anonymous Cowards to post? Oh, I fogot. It is for the needed comic relief.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ad hominem is useful when you really mean to say "I have no response. You are correct."

Thanks for playing.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Ya, I'm sorry. I couldn't stop laughing that your solution to car accidents was to get rid of cars.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[sjames]

Some would find something else, some actually wouldn't. Drugs are where the big money is. Stealing TVs just won't net you the same kind of cash. The ones shooting at cops, probably not. The ones dealing drugs and carrying a gun (that they secretly hope never to use) are the ones who might just give up crime.

I would argue that most people are basically law abiding because they believe it's the right thing without regard for the existance (or not) of prisons. There ARE some who only obey the law for fear of prison and others who don't obey the law in spite of prison.

Of course, there are those who go to prison for non-violent offenses, get out and find there are no significant opportunities for ex-cons, so they turn to crime to support themselves.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

I understand the whole, legalize and regulate mantra but the things you regulate will just cause black markets of their own where you can get unregulated drugs so that doesn't work.

Except that's not how it actually works in practicality. Nobody buys their alcohol from moonshiners. Nobody buys homemade Prozac or Viagra, they get it from a regulated pharmaceutical company. Where is this massive black market in inregulated alcohol and pharmaceuticals?

Should we legalize Slavery and regulate that?

Huge difference. You choose to consume drugs of your own free will. You are making a decision about your own body. Slavery, by definition, is loss of freedom, and having somebody decide for you, without your consent. You could not have chosen a more inappropriate analogy.

The solution to all of the World's evils are not to legalize them.

Except drugs are not "evil" and cannot be. They are inanimate substances, they do not have consciousness or the ability to make decisions. Evil requires conscious intent - in other words it is an attribute of humans - not of substances.

So law enforcement does not want more laws to enforce; they want less.

Most of the decent cops actually to want legalization. The problem is that the police forces are riddled with corrupt cops who get kickbacks from the drug trade, so it's in their interest to continue prohibition.

I think that Driving around while high on Methanphetamines is a little more dangerous then speeding. There is no way Drugs should ever be legalized, period.

But the fact that methamphetamines are illegal is not stopping anybody from driving around while high. So, how is the law helping anything, or making anybody safer?

BTW, what do you mean by "Drugs" (with a capital D, no less)? You talk as if they are all the same. So, aspirin should be made illegal? Alcohol should be made illegal? What do you mean?

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

By Drugs I mean illegal drugs that are considered controlled substances. No I don't think aspirin should be made illegal nor alcohol. Maybe Tobacco though.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[dangitman]

But that's entirely arbitrary, and circular logic. Why should a drug be illegal, just because it is illegal? Many illegal drugs are relatively harmless, while many currently legal drugs are very dangerous. Why do you believe that alcohol should be legal, but marijuana should be illegal - when alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana? And how do you propose to make tobacco illegal? That would cause rioting in the streets!

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Icarus1919]

Would you drink alcohol after getting off from a long day at work if your employer kept track of what you did on your off time? Because plenty of people do just that, at employers would love to do the opposite.

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

My employer actually lets me drink on the job. I'm in IT so it's not like I'm handling machinery where it would be dangerous so it's not a big deal. They even bought the beer. Free Beer!

Re:keeping people in a job...

[Bryansix]

Well I'll start with the last question and work back. In California cities and counties are getting more and more strict on where you can and cannot smoke. Eventually the only place you will be able to smoke is in your own home. That's right even in a park outside it is sometimes illegal to smoke in California. That is how Tobacco will eventually become illegal. Not through banning the sale of it; but through regulating it's use.

Second I never argued that a drug should be illegal just because it is illegal now. I accept some arguments that things defined as controlled substances now should not be. You are right that Marijuana is not as dangerous as Alcohol in most cases. However Marijuana is known to to deter ambition. This is shown by my anicdotal evidence that the one person I knew really closely who used Marijuana regularlly was the smartest person I knew; went to UCLA as an Engineering Major and then failed out due to not going to class. You know why he didn't go? Because he would smoke and then be high and not want to go to class high. I know this is not scientific but there are studies that show this. Anyways if MJ was legalized I wouldn't be up in arms. Or if one or two drugs were reclassified and you could get them via prescription again that would be fine. It's this "All or Nothing" argument that I take offense to. Some Drugs are dangerous and it's not just because they have quality control issues.

Amusingly, Blu-Ray only titles in USA

[WillAffleckUW]

Are normally released as HD-DVD titles in other countries, so you can just buy them online from Europe.

But this crack will be useful for those few of us with Linux PS3 units.

Paging Governor Tarkin

[Gothmolly]

The more you tighten your DRM^wgrip, the more content^wsystems will slip through your fingers.

Re:Paging Governor Tarkin

[edgedmurasame]

Apparently Slysoft needs to get that memo as well.

Seconded.

[ivan256]

The SlySoft stuff, especially AnyDVD, but CloneDVD is nice if you're into ripping & copying, is excellent.

It is constantly being updated for free to support any new tricks they throw onto the latest DVDs. Once you have it installed, playing DVDs works as you would have expected, instead of being the FBI warning/preview infested/disabled buttons nightmare that DVDs have become.

I don't copy DVDs, and I still think this software is worth every penny, for its ability to automatically remove annoyances from your discs without even having to think about it. And I really appreciate their extra effort to keep their existing customers (who aren't paying them anymore) up to date with amazing speed after new "protections" are introduced.

Well...

[tubapro12]

What can't SlySoft do? I'm not surprised.

No they want to eliminate all copying

[Sycraft-fu]

They are dead fucking convinced they can make an unbreakable encryption scheme. In fact, they thought they had one with AACS. After all, they used AES, which the government says is great, how could anyone break it?

They live in a fantasy world.

Re:No they want to eliminate all copying

[ScrewMaster]

They live in a fantasy world.

Well now that's certainly true. I think they tend to listen to high-tech snake-oil salesmen, rather than talking to people who really know how the technology works.

Re:No they want to eliminate all copying

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm convinced that the snake oil salesman DO indeed know how the technology works - and they're milking this cow for every dime.

Re:No they want to eliminate all copying

[Kamineko]

Wait, whoa... I'm confused. They're milking a cow for snake oil now?

Re:No they want to eliminate all copying

[ravenshrike]

AES is good, for certain things. Like sayyyy, encrypting data for yourself. Or sending a file one time to someone else with the keys. They never said it was a good idea to use it in a DRM system that constantly is decrypting the information when the hardware is being used, while the hardware is out of the control of the maker.

Re:No they want to eliminate all copying

[EnigmaticSource]

No... bulls dude, bulls.

Not my experience

[maillemaker]

I tried at least 7 different pieces of software trying to make a go of it with free stuff.

I tried AutoGK, etc. etc. etc.

And I know I'm not alone with an isolated problem because if you go read the DVD-ripping related forums you will find that audio/video sync problems is a consistent theme.

So kudos to you for figuring it all out and saving the 80 bucks. Myself I figure I spent about 20 hours all told trying to get it to work with free software - well over $80 worth of time to me.

Not to mention the fact that none of the free tools were stand-alone products. Most, if not all of them, required you to go download and install numerous other pieces of the puzzle to make it all work. I'm always skeptical when I have to go download 4 other pieces of software to make another piece of software run. It's hard enough to get one developer to make their own tool work right - every time you throw another developer into the mix the chances of things going afoul rise.

So ultimately, I was very pleased with the Slysoft tool. It works flawlessly. I wish I could have found a free tool, but I couldn't.

non-machine translation

[Anonymous Coward]

SlySoft: AnyDVD to circumvent new AACS-Protection, soon also BD+

Fourth version of AACS has been cracked.

The Producers of the copying-tool "AnyDVD", Slysoft, released a new Version of their software. It can now cope with the new version of AACS and is expected to also copy Blu-ray-discs protected by the supposedly uncrackable "BD+".

Ever since April 2007, the Copy-protection-committee AACS LA revoked keys for movies and drives after they had been compromised. The cat-and-mouse game was supposed to end with the version "MBKv4" - the fourth version - which changed the keys. Slysoft now told us that version 6.1.9.3 of AnyDVD can also decrypt MBKv4-DVDs. The company claims to have successfully tested it with the HD-DVD "The Transformers", the top-selling HD-movie in the US, and also with the Blu-ray-versions of the Spiderman trilogy.

Apart from the usual sneering in the press release ("one might almost feel sorry for the poor movie industry guys") SlySoft chief executive Giancarlo Bettini also used the company's success in cracking the copy-protection to call out against it: "I wonder how long it will take for people to understand that increasing restrictions, pressure and protection measures that stop things from functioning don't mean more, but instead less revenue."

According to Bettini, even the "BD"-protection of Blu-ray players, which uses a virtual machine in the player, has already been cracked. The software is already running and there is little work left to create the according tool. Bettini expects the tool to still be published in 2007. However, according to German law it is illegal to use software that circumvents copy-protection measures.

Re:So..... this means that

[PMBjornerud]

I (seriously) just finished memorizing 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0. Dude, not smart. They'll file a takedown notice on your brain for that.

Don't celebrate, it's just a Slysoft Black Box

[sethstorm]

If this is indeed cracked, I'd wait until there's something more than just their black box - actual code that works on its own.

Until then, Slysoft is just part of the problem.

Re:Don't celebrate, it's just a Slysoft Black Box

[burndive]

I agree with your sentiment, but this is still encouraging news:

1) It's proven to be do-able, so the Good crackers just got a shot in the arm
2) If you buy this, it allows you to skip those annoying unskippable sections, and perform "forbidden" operations
2a) If enough people become aware of a world in which this is possible, it's much more likely that congress will get off of their asses and finally make it illegal to insist on those kinds of requirements.

Re:Don't celebrate, it's just a Slysoft Black Box

[geekoid]

about 2a):

More likely, they will just make it so the consumer is allowed to do it if they so choose. IMHO when applicable, thats the best solutions.

Re:Don't celebrate, it's just a Slysoft Black Box

[burndive]

What I was suggesting is that congress make it illegal for the AACS/CSS people to deny working keys to players that allow users to skip "unskippable" content. This implies that the content will still play as normal on these players, but "forbidden" actions will actually work, like the user intended. It would modify the market conditions, so that users could choose a player that, when they wished, could skip the content.

I am not suggesting that it not play the content given no user input.

Re:Don't celebrate, it's just a Slysoft Black Box

[ScrewMaster]

This just proves that it can be done on consumer-grade equipment, which means someone else will figure it out soon and release the details. So I wouldn't say that Slysoft is part of the problem, exactly, but until someone else cracks it (or, for that matter, cracks their crack!) they're just capitalizing on the market for decryption software. Just good business sense, I'd say. More power to 'em.

Fear and Trembling

[Nom du Keyboard]

There should be Fear and Trembling at Sony right about now. True, or not, this isn't the news they're going to enjoy reading today.

Re:So..... this means that

[glittalogik]

Can you legally order someone to take downers?

Re:Problems-SOMETIMES

[Nom du Keyboard]

2- ensure customer can open lock with key to use

You'll have to mark that one as a Sometimes operation.

Can't be Done

[Bellum Aeternus]

This just brings me back to my original hypothesis that it is impossible to encrypt something one time that you want to be easily distributed to the masses. There's just no way to say "here's the encrypted content and the key, but the key only works when we say so" unless you have some kind of root server doing the authentication in real-time and creates randomize keys for every download/view (think TSL). Even then, the user on the recieving end can (in theory) just record the incoming stream and redistribute.

It's time for the media distributors of the world to wise up and realize that they just cannot protect their content through DRM. The best they can hope for is to make it tough on Joe Sixpack, and rely on legal means to tackle the large scale pirates. (think 1980's style).

If BD+ is cracked, then the writing is pretty much on the wall for DVDs and we'll see a faster migration to online, streaming content. So let the "you cannot save this file" wars begin (ala Flash and QuickTime) - soon people (smarter than me) will spend time on fixing, er um... breaking that too.

Re:Can't be Done

[sethstorm]

If BD+ is cracked, then the writing is pretty much on the wall for DVDs and we'll see a faster migration to online, streaming content. Apparently Slysoft wants it that way too for their "cracking service with a client".

Re:Can't be Done

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't vote against someone

Re:Can't be Done

[elrous0]

I boils down to this: If it can be watched and/or listened to, it can be copied.

All the encryption in the world won't change that.

Blurb is flawed- INquirer, not Enquirer

[Chapter80]

This isn't the Cincinnati Newspaper!

Remote cracking service client != fully cracked

[cwcpetech]

Or more accurately, have something that can withstand the exposure. Odd that they speak of not insulting open source, but then do so later on in that thread.

Apparently that thread seems to have a certain lack of objection to DRM when it's in a "cracking service client".

The thing they cant do is accept any objection to it being anything else. To accept anything from Slysoft as a "crack" would be premature.

Simple Answer: PKI

[mpapet]

The basic problem remains, the PRIVATE KEY IS STILL BEING DISTRIBUTED! As long as there are off line media players and accompanying encryption schemes, it's only a matter of time and some effort.

This won't stop the media conglomerates boasting about their newest encryption scheme. After it's released the crack will always be soon to follow.

The encryption scheme still works though. For example, the Chairman/CEO at Sony won't be calling in any of his elected officials that are on their dole to stop it. Americans still mostly buy DVD's and the media conglomerates still get to behave like a cartel.

AACS Encryption Getting Better?

[rsmith-mac]

This is a bit off-topic, but on the subject of HD encryption, is it me or does it seem like HD-DVD/BR discs are getting harder to crack? There have been several big releases lately that have taken a while to crack the encryption on and rip; the HD-DVD version of Transformers for example wasn't broken until some two weeks after the disc was released. Obviously the MPAA's engineers can't completely fix AACS due to flaws in its design, but they seem to be getting better at using what they have and keeping groups from cracking their discs for a bit longer.

On the whole this is still a loss for the MPAA, but none the less being able to stop people for even a couple of weeks would likely encourage anxious people to buy movies they'd otherwise pirate, so it would seem the MPAA hasn't completely lost yet.

Re:AACS Encryption Getting Better?

[Zironic]

If you can't wait 2 weeks to get a HD-DVD for free instead of buying it something is wrong with you.

Re:AACS Encryption Getting Better?

[Creepy Crawler]

If you have to watch over-hyped pop trash, something is wrong with you.

Re:AACS Encryption Getting Better?

[Ddalex]

the HD-DVD version of Transformers for example wasn't broken until some two weeks after the disc was released

That's because nobody wanted to see the darn movie...

Re:AACS Encryption Getting Better?

[Kjella]

I think it's more something like a death rattle. They tried all sorts of wierd stuff on DVDs, up until the point where they started breaking DVD players. Now they're doing the same with HDDVD/Blu-Ray, but it's a limited bag of tricks and for each release it's getting smaller. Quoting wikipedia:

Anti-ripping
After DeCSS ripping software became available, companies developed techniques to introduce errors in DVD-Video discs that don't normally affect playback and navigation of a disc, but can cause problems in software that attempts to copy the entire disc. These approaches, which are not part of the official DVD-Video specification, include Sony ARccOS, Macrovision RipGuard, X-protect, ProtectDisc SecureBurn, Anaho, Fortium, and others. What did that lead to? Nothing but ripping tools reaching a state of emulation/correction where you could break it no further. I've not heard of anything that doesn't fit into that category and that's really a new layer of encryption.

Blu-Ray excludsives are HD-DVD in Europe

[burndive]

That's excellent news!

Thanks for the tip.

Stuff like this is half the reason I read Slashdot.

After looking at Wikipedia's list of required HD-DVD/Blu-Ray features for players, and what that has meant, especially for audio quality on actual releases, as well as being region-free, I'm convinced that if anyone is going to "win", it's going to be HD-DVD. I was about 65% ready to buy. This little gem, if true, pushes me up to at least 75%.

Re:Blu-Ray excludsives are HD-DVD in Europe

[iainl]

It's something of a generalization, before you get too carried away. But there are indeed many titles where the US rights are owned by a BluRay-exclusive company, but the European or Japanese rights are with a HD-DVD one. Fantastic Four, Total Recall, Terminator 2, Equilibrium all spring to mind as popular ones to send to our US friends.

They're sometimes not that bright...

[tkrotchko]

I looked in my DVD collection the other day and I realized had purchased well over 300 DVD's. It just sorta happened. And I realized it's a tremendous waste of money and space for discs that, for the most part, are watched once and done. But the price point is low enough that they're an impulse buy every time we go to the warehouse club, and so everybody throws one in. I should probably sell them on ebay.

Anyway, to my point. When I go to the store, new releases are $13-15, and 2-3 year old releases are typically under $10. I can't believe anybody copies for that price, particularly when you only watch once.

So DVD piracy is effectively solved by lowering the price so it's just not worth it to the vast majority of people. If they get high definition disks down to under $15, this is really a moot point.

The only reasons I can think spending this much time and effort by the record companies is either (a) They think that they'll eventually drive piracy out of the market allowing them to raise prices or (b) they're crazy control freaks who aren't completely rational. Or maybe both.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[Zironic]

I don't know anyone that copies DVD's, what a waste of time and effort. You download em.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[fbjon]

I tend to buy cheaper impulse DVDs as well, but more importantly, DVDs of films that cannot be had through other means, i.e. the good but obscure ones.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[nuzak]

I burn the occasional disk from Netflix. Not all of them like some people do, since I question the ethics of that, but some of them.

And what effort? I start up dvd decryptor, and press one single button. I burn by hitting a key, then pressing the same big button. My bandwidth doesn't get used, I get all the extra features, audio tracks, subtitles, I can carry the disk anywhere and play it on anyone's player, and there's no secret MPAA police monitoring my activities to send the gendarmes to kick down my door.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[Opportunist]

The price isn't even the point. I do agree that they're cheap enough. But as you said it: It's a lot of wasted space. A current hard drive could hold 30+ HD-movies easily, or 100-200 in DVD quality. You could put your whole DVD collection on hard drive and drop the originals into some storage.

Or ... can you? No, at least not legally. Media shifting is intrinsically impossible due to DRM. So you're stuck with those reflective plastic discs, no chance to transfer them to your hard drive, hell, chances are good that you can't even watch them on your computer unless it happens to have some system so locked down that you can't do anything else sensibly with it. You prefer Linux? Then you better not prefer watching your movies from your computer.

That's the reason why people (ok, geeks) loathe DRM. It's not that we have to buy movies, I buy movies I enjoy enough to watch them more than just once (so far there's been three). But I want to watch them the way I want.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[delt0r]

I think that they are already at that price point. Movies are made just for DVD because you *can* make a profit. That is copyright infringement is not a big deal in much of the western world compared to how many they sell.

But there is another angle that is often forgotten. Now perhaps we want to set up a company to make low price point DVD players? Well its not so bad, ASIC and FPGA allow some cheap low production volume options. You can even get mpeg decoder IP logic for low prices. But to get the license to be allowed some CSS/AAC keys, forget it. Its about controlling the hardware. You often have to join some group at a high price to be able to manufacture legal DVD/HDDVD/BluRay players. By joining you agree to make commercials unskipable and to respect the silly zone system etc.

Of course this does not yet work. I can buy zone free dvd players from Saturn here in Austria. Almost all players are zone free in NZ. Mod chipping is perfectly legal (you haven't stolen anything). Without the DMCA these "controls" don't work. My guess is that they want to get only hardware that can play the movies to be from 100% approved manufactures that will make it hard for joe blogs to get around zones and other dumb systems.

So in conclusion, I think they are from option b). They probably think that hardware manufactures should make money selling DVD players when its "there" content that people watch or something.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

And I realized it's a tremendous waste of money and space for discs that, for the most part, are watched once and done. You are right - movies that sit on the shelf are useless. So lend them out to your friends and acquaintances. People often balk at this because sometimes the lendees don't treat the DVDs very well. Still, just exercise some caution in who you lend too and make sure to never land any of those paper cases like digipaks or fancy boxsets, use generic hard-plastic cases for lending those discs. Even if a few discs do get beat up, it isn't the end of the world. And in the meantime, each lent movie is one less dollar going to the MAFIAA and its minions like BlockBuster or Circuit City.

new releases are $13-15, and 2-3 year old releases are typically under $10. I can't believe anybody copies for that price, particularly when you only watch once. Yeah... I think that's a major flaw in your logic. $10 for a single viewing versus a day or less of download time on a broadband connection, about $1.50. I'm pretty sure lots of people go for the $1.50 choice. The Pirate Bay is gaining popularity, not losing it.

Re:They're sometimes not that bright...

[cwtrex]

If you think $15 is just extra money you can spend on whatever, then you make too much or are obviously not planning on saving for retirement. If you don't want it, I'll take it. I even pick up pennies. My girlfriend has kept a change jar (5 gallon water bottle) and we turned it in and found it worth 4 grand in the end.

So as for movie piracy? All you guys who are saying that $15 dollars is cheap enough, I don't think so. I look in the dollar movie section and I rent through net flix for the newer ones so that all of my entertainment is as cheap as possible. Last time I spent 10 dollars on a movie, I felt like I was getting ripped off. And yes, I know even the janitor that cleaned up the set every night needs to get paid and the movie flops that they make need to have the costs averaged out with the good ones.

I must say that it'd be an even better world if people who were expecting millions and no piracy actually made movies you wanted to watch over and over again and they gave you something more then a plastic cover and disc, that perhaps I wouldn't feel ripped off. /end_ramble

Look at the size of that thing!

[funkdancer]

I had to use AnyDVD HD to rip my legally rented Spiderman 3 (BR) to my HD so that I could watch it with PowerDVD. Some mumbo about the title using a new Java engine menu that wasn't compatible with PowerDVD... and a bunch of other standalone players.

I guess the rip might have taken away some of the junk that prevented playing. Now, the total was ~40GB. I'm sure this could be reduced by taking away unwanted audio codeks and extra material, but still you're looking at ~25GB or more for a rip and a fair amount of work for sure.

Now to my point, for the time being, with the current prices of BR burnables, hard drive space will probably be the greatest deterrent against piracy so far. There are some nice deals on Blu-Rays out there, e.g. 3 for A$70 = $23 each (about US$21) which just almost beats buying removable hard drives used for the purpose of storing rips.

(FWIW: I love Slysoft's program, without which I'd probably throw my rather expensive Pioneer BR player into the trash due to BR's insistence on propagating the region codes. Well worth the money.)

Re:So..... this means that

[dreamchaser]

Dammit! Don't give THEM any more ideas!!!

More simple than that - obstacles are a challenge

[Bearhouse]

I can't claim originality - the point has been made by others, but I think in other article responses.
On the one hand, the argument (made in this thread), that "the objective is to prevent casual copying", thus preserving the business (profit) model. Swiftly refuted by the "in the age of P2P, any free copy becomes a threat".

Both irrelevant. iTunes (protected content) makes money. CDs (unprotected) do too. Just less than before. Hey, get used to it boys, I had to! We all made shitloads of cash in the 80s and 90s, but now we REALLY have to work for our living.

Do you think that the people spending valuable time cracking BluRy are doing it for profit?
No, "it's because it's there". Kudos, 'beating the Man', whatever...
Not many virusus on Mac, because no point. Cracking an iPhone, aha!

Give it up, guys, and they'll go away...

Free mega-hint

[pair-a-noyd]

The key is under the doormat.

I do use it...

[maillemaker]

I use Slysoft's ripper to rip out the VOBs, and their Clone DVD Mobile to convert them to .AVI files.

I tried using DVD Decrypter to rip the VOBs, but Clone DVD Mobile did not want to process them on the first and only DVD I tried. I was annoyed, but I bought their ripping software, too. Now everything works great.

Re:Analog sunset

[speedlaw]

The evil forces have thought of this. It's called analog sunset. No component outputs, just HDMI...where it's evil twin, HDCP comes around. Toss in a few restrictive licensing agreements and "voila" any device which hooks to HDMI and allows you to remove content is ILLEGAL and prosecutable. It's in the plan, it's in action, and just wait till those component inputs disappear.

Ah.

[jd]

That's ok, I'm bi-lingual - I speak English and American, so I get to use it. It's a common-enough word - usually in the contexts of dead-reckoning, reckoning on something, reckoning that something is true/false, etc, "Reckon so" and other linguistic perversions are a product of the Donner Party eating the dictionaries and thesaurus.

Format wars are over..

[frieza79]

well it looks like blue ray format is going to "win".

Can you hear the drums too?

[CFD339]

The never stop. Always the drums, the drums...

Re:Analog sunset

[logicassasin]

again, old-school ghetto tactics can be used to copy it. I could set up a video camera on a tripod directly in front of the TV (my Hitachi 57F510 has an HDMI input on it) and the stereo mic will record the audio.

Low budget and ghetto as hell, but it's no different than the guys in the wal-mart parking lot peddling hidden camcorder versions of "30 Days of Night" for $10, in fact... It's better 'cause there's no one talking or getting up to go get popcorn in the middle of the movie.

Re:Analog sunset

[sjames]

And the real bootleg operations will hack hardware to make copies anyway. Since they won't really care about copying themselves and they might have a bit of trouble getting a legitimate key anyWay, their stuff will be encryption free.

Alternative explanation :

[aepervius]

The movie transformer sucked so much that even the "pirate" were shy of putting a copy on P2P and mark themselves as "having bad taste".

People are cracking these because...

[patio11]

... selling pirated copies is a billion dollar industry. That isn't any wonky "lost revenue" claim, its just the "No, really, criminal enterprises and the government of China (forgive the slight redudancy) made multiple billions last year selling IP for which the owners were not compensated". Just like other forms of ratware, if the Information That I Want Wants To Be Free crowd doesn't win the race, then it will be done by (comparitively*) highly paid programmers working for the criminal enterprises. Do you think that email harvesting scripts, capcha breakers, spam mailer agents, and phishing sites just wrote themselves? Neither does the massive infastructure that underwrites software, video, or music piracy.

* I used to frequent a spammer forum to see what The Enemy was up to when I was an anti-spam researcher. The going rate for a custom script to cleanse an email list seemed to be about $500, which is probably a half-day to a day of work to a programmer of any skill. Per capita GDP is $12k, you do the math.

Re:Analog sunset

[The Master Control P]

Unfortunately for the fucktards running the MAFIAA, it's an analog world. Just gimme some blank circuit boards, a couple hundred dollars of ECL, a software nerd to write the raw USB driver, and a supply of HDTVs you're willing to sacrifice for the cause. I'll take the signals right off the driver lines if I have to.

technological solutions will fail

[martin]

When will the content providers get this. Whatever barrier they put in place will fail, just a matter of time.

my solution: sell it cheap pile it high..

YES - $80 is cheap for my time

[Overzeetop]

I almost modded you up, and hope others do. But I wanted to point out to all the GK and [favorite freeware] posters that for $80, you get a suite that just works. Decoding is completely transparent - you can just do an explorer copy of the files to your HD if you want. Or you can easily remaster, recoding if necessary, in a 4 step wizard to mpeg4. Want to transfer to your portable? Use the program made for portables with presets for many popular devices.

Oh, sure, you can go to Doom9 or afterdawn and gather up your tools, prep them yourself, choose all your settings, optimize your output, and then go back to get the updates every couple of weeks. My time is worth more than that. $80 is 40 minutes of billing time for me, and everything is together, always useful, and readily updated (though not perfectly transparent, admittedly).

I do wish Slysoft would make a better Xvid or H.264 converter for full size video (DVDmobile is not very good for that) it might just be perfect. Then again, storage is still dropping in price, and there's no sense in recoding from mpeg2->xvid to save 50% anymore when the savings in drive space per disc is often less than 50c.

Patton said...

[neo-mkrey]

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man" Now it can be said "Fixed encryptions are monuments to the stupidity of motion picture studios."

OT: your sig

[Anonymous Coward]

Nifong did no wrong, he got railroaded by a well-connected kid.

"Nifong did wrong; he tried to railroad a well-connected kid." There, fixed that for you.

Gambit

[HTH NE1]

SlySoft claims to have cracked BD+ Vila: Talk's cheap.
Slysoft: Does that mean something?
Avon: It means he doesn't believe you, and neither, as a matter of fact, do I.
Slysoft: I take it you wish me to prove it.
Avon: Why not?

Where to spend the money?

[brianw21]

I'm surprised no one talks about the obvious. How much do they (Sony, et all) spend to engineer these complicated security mechanisms?

Millions would be my guess. If they would take that money and instead lower the cost of the players, and published media, I think they would break even. Shockingly the consumers might benefit as well.

It just seems to me that these companies are spending tons of money on these systems, that don't benefit their customers in anyway. Instead they have inflated their development costs, inflated their hardware costs, pay royalties to the encryption companies, and slowed adoption. And in the end the systems will eventually be cracked. Meaning the above investment is lost, and the negatives are still present.

Chuck DRM, and deliver a product designed for the consumers. $10 retail dvds, $5 DVD-Downloads. We aren't stupid, we (the consumers) know it costs you about a $1 to make a dvd. Many of us (myself included) think that paying $20+ for a DVD is to high, and of which the profits fund anti-consumer activities.

I just shake my head, it must be the director of "media security" protecting his job and department. How do you make a business case out of doing this to the consumers? Maybe Mom & Dad don't understand it, but little Billy is pissed that the new DVD can't be ripped to his media center. So instead he just downloads it, and never asks mom and dad for that Transformers DVD for X-mas.

I'm not sure that is the case...

[maillemaker]

>FWIW your problems were with the rips.

I don't think the problem was with the rips, because I could play the resulting .VOB files without any problems. It was transcoding that caused problems.

There are two methods for dealing with risk

[A non-mouse Coward]

1) Introduce factors to mitigate the risks against an asset.
2) Reduce the value of an asset.

They have tried for years to do #1. When will they try #2 (as in a new business model that doesn't involve digital media as expensive/valuable assets)?

Lookout for the Haitian behind you!

[Anonymous Coward]

Lookout for the Haitian behind you!

National Security

[PhoenixOne]

If you can convince Joe Average that its to prevent another "tour-ur-ist attack", he'll do it.

Hell, we have people taking off their shoes and buying $8 water at airports (because you can't bring your own).

Do some math before you make crap up.

[Anonymous Coward]

"My girlfriend has kept a change jar (5 gallon water bottle) and we turned it in and found it worth 4 grand in the end."

$4K in pennies? that's 400,000 pennies.

A penny weighs 2.5 grams, and so if you do the math, it works out to be 1,000,000 grams.

28 grams is one ounce, so that's 35715 ounces or 2232 pounds. So that's helluva 5 gallon jar. How did you get that to the bank? How did you lift it?

The point is, you're making stuff up. You mean you found 4,000 pennies in the jar, which is $40.00. Which is groovy. W00t. You got yourself $40.00 saving all the pennies you could find. Don't spend it all in one place.

You were so totally pwned by that other response

[ClioCJS]

I had to add Geekazoid as my friend after seeing the sound thrashing he gave to your laughably myopic (and in some cases strawman) reasoning. It's like you have no clue at all how reality works! People like you are so funny.

"Do you really think crack cocaine belongs in the streets?" Um.... Where do you think it is now? Do you listen to yourself? Every kid I know, including myself when I was that age, could more readily get marijuana than alcohol - precisely because alcohol was regulated and sold legally, making a black market unworkable. Go read up on Al Capone. We don't have Al Capones now because legalizing alcohol makes the black market for alcohol go away. That's how things work.

By the way, during alcohol prohibition, many people were sold the wrong kind of alcohol, causing permanent blindness. Thousands. That is because a black market has no government oversight. When you talk about black tar heroin, you miss the entire point -- Heroin is a brand name for a drug developed by a British pharmaceutical company (I think around the 1960s). It's just diacetylmorphine, a triple-strength morphine. It does zero physical harm to the human body when administered clinically (I don't count an IV needle as harm). Addiction is the only issue here.

And most overdoses occur due to lack of knowledge of purity. A bad metaphor, because you would taste it: Imagine drinking a 6 pack and later finding out it was 97% alcohol instead of 6% alcohol. For *me*, that would definitely kill me. In reality, with alcohol, you would taste it -- but if it was a pill/smokeable/injectable/quicker drug, it might be too late. And that's exactly what happens with heroin overdoses. If they were prescribed specific measured amounts, they would be fine. The UK and many European clinics simply get prescriptions for thier addicts. The addcits complain about that it's "never enough" because it's actually "just enough", which is how it should be. Not jail. And not overdose. Keep being productive, working to pay for your prescription, AND support the pharmaceutical industry :)

You should also go to your local library's federal government section, and go look at U.S. Bureau Of Mortality Statistics. Cross-reference them with U.S. NIDA drug-use statistics. Check out the number of daily alcohol drinkers, and the number of daily cocaine users. Now cross-check their deaths every year. You will be incredibly surprised. I was.

Re:You were so totally pwned by that other respons

[Bryansix]

I remember people in Middle School telling me how they got drunk and threw up and how it was so great blah blah blah. Now I like to drink don't get me wrong but my point here is that Alcohol is easier to get now not harder because of it being legal and that includes underage users. It's the same with drugs that are illegal now. That's what meant when I said "on the streets" because you could go to the local drug store and pay a bum outside to buy some cocain for you and now you have cocaine and your only 12 years old. It's a lot less dangerous to give a bum some money then to buy cocaine from a bona fide drug dealer which is why you won't see kids doing it usually. I understand Prohibition and all that went along with it. I mean really what this comes down to is how you view governments' role in society. Should they even attempt to stop people from harming themselves? I think that most people will just say no. I almost want to say that but then I realize that it's not people who hurt themselves in the end. It's people taking advantage of them. Look at how the cigarette companies kept adding more and more nicotine to their products without labeling the packages as such. People will profiteer at the expense and even the demise of other people. History has proven it.

Anyways, you can talk to me until you are blue in the face but it doesn't change the fact that this country will never legalize 99% of what is defined as controlled substances now. Marijuana is the one exception. It is the least harmful, actually has some good side effects but it still alters your mental state.

...missing my point....

[ClioCJS]

Why can kids get marijuana easier than alcohol, then? Go ask any high schooler who can obtain both which is easier to get.

Re:...missing my point....

[Bryansix]

It's because it grows on plants. You can't compare the two things. It's very unscientific. It's the Apples and Oranges argument. The point is that with the same substance, alchohol it is easier for kids to get now then before.

HAHAHAHhOHOHEOHEHEHHEHAHOEHOHEH

[ClioCJS]

Hops is a plant too. Marijuana is not more easily ready simply because it grows on plants. It's actually harder to produce psychotropic marijuana than it is to produce alcohol. I can and have homebrewed alcohol myself. You don't need $2,000 grow lights, you don't need fertilizer, you don't need to check PH levels, and the process is a few weeks instead of months. Quite simply, your logic is flawed, you are wrong, your argument crumbles quite nicely, and anyone in-the-know reading this is bound to have a chuckle.

Re:HAHAHAHhOHOHEOHEHEHHEHAHOEHOHEH

[Bryansix]

You didn't grow the Hops. That's why you didn't need $2000 grow lights. Besides in the Chaparal of California most people just grow the Marijuana outside with no fertilizer and just an irrigation system.

..and

[ClioCJS]

and yet, it's still harder to grow illegal marijuana outdoors, because law enforcement is actively trying find you, which is not the case with beer. I didn't grow the hops -- thanks for pointing that out, it helps my argument considerably. Alcohol is a lot easier to make, in part because you don't have to grow your own hops, and yet, a child can find marijuana easier. You have failed to refute my assertion.