Slashdot Mirror
China's President Hu Talks IT Warfare
narramissic writes "In his keynote speech at the Communist Party Congress in October China's president Hu Jintao was specific in his references to one area of IT: defense. 'We must build strong armed forces through science and technology. To attain the strategic objective of building computerized armed forces and winning IT-based warfare, we will accelerate composite development of mechanization and computerization, carry out military training under IT-based conditions, modernize every aspect of logistics, intensify our efforts to train a new type of high-caliber military personnel in large numbers and change the mode of generating combat capabilities.'"
>"We must build strong armed forces through science and technology. To attain the strategic objective of building computerized armed forces and winning IT-based warfare, we will accelerate composite development of mechanization and computerization, carry out military training under IT-based conditions, modernize every aspect of logistics, intensify our efforts to train a new type of high-caliber military personnel in large numbers and change the mode of generating combat capabilities."
Filled my bullshit bingo card across, down, and both diagonals! Sure he doesn't work in marketing?
Kevin Smith on Prince
You could almost say Hu is on first.
Hu talks about IT warfare?
China's got a premier who was a hydraulic engineer and can even know and understand words like logistics.
India's got a prime minister who is an economist and was the head honcho of the finance ministry.
Wonder if Bush even understands the word logistics.
... , for instance at this place, where we have, as only one example of a high ranking AI-researcher, Dr. Feiyue Wang, Chinese Academy of Sciences (also advisor to the government), who does interesting research like, e.g. "Pedestrian Detection from a Moving Vehicle" (translate for yourself). I had this person on the radar earlier.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
No one can win in "IT warfare" because no matter what you do, as long as someone has the desire to, they will hack and crack it. Think about the iPod's checksum, it was defeated within a few days. HD-DVD and DVDs are cracked and some are reporting Blu-Ray cracked too. And for "skills" in IT, think about how "high tech" America is, yet the average consumer doesn't know any more then how to use an iPod, get around in Word and surf the net, and whenever MS or Apple comes out with a new version we spend millions for "retraining" the fact is, unless you know how to program, and how things work (technically not just that an iPod plays music from a hard drive to your speakers) you can never succeed, the fact is that in IT and the internet, anyone can succeed not just one class/country and right now the "geeks" are dominating not the FBI, CIA or any other government, its the geeks that will win just give it some time. Already there is a "class devision" in technology, some people know how to install RAM, install Linux, use Linux, fix a broken hard drive, how USB and other peripherals work and some spend over $500 on a proprietary OS that doesn't even hardly fit their needs and tech support to fix what they break. Nothing other then the open-sourcing of all code will change that. Just wait 5 years and the average /. reader will have the skills needed to thrive and those who have spent thousands going to "business school" will be working in a way for the "geeks"
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
No more Big Red Button hooked up to a Big Red Nuke?
They have 4 times our population, but we have more IP Addresses then they do!!! Take that!
On a more serious note, how hard would it be (if they pissed off enough country's) to null route all their IPs at the core peering points?
What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Sorry, I've been backed up in work and out of touch with the news. Who did China declare war on? I'm so confused.
President Hu also challenged the Chinese electrical system to develop faster forms of power recovery, so when power goes out, pertaining to laptops, Hu's will be on first.
Rhymes that keep their secrets will unfold behind the clouds.There upon the rainbow is the answer to a neverending story
So if this is anything like our State of the Union address, none of this will ever happen?
He's marketing defense because they've already have the offense down pat.
Translation: We're going to play a lot of Halo 3
With great justice!
Carry out military training under IT-based conditions!
We have better trolls. Suck it, China!
He means for China to cut off our supply of farmed WoW gold. Gentlemen, we must not allow a WoW gold gap!
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Anyone else read this as talking about NCW (net centric warfare) and not cyberattacks?
I think it's obvious that what President Hu is talking about isn't necessarily "cyberwar" (I.T. as we've come to think of it in the U.S.), but the same sort of "networked warfare" that the Pentagon has been spewing about for the last several years. Everyone has recognized that the U.S. dominance on the battlefield is a result of our technological edge, in particular the use of computers and digital communications. China is going to want to replicate that in their own armed forces if they want to remain militarily relevant.
Right now, the United States could probably easily win a non-nuclear war with a highly conventional army like China's. If China is going to exercise its own strategic initiative, it needs to build up a deterrent against the U.S., and that means improving its military technology--especially in the area of computerization ("I.T.").
It means the US will be putting tighter restrictions on the export of software and networking equipment. Count on it!
A good thing actually. I don't want any US corporation aiding the CCP's censorship goals/objectives.
Life is not for the lazy.
You seem to think that the battlefield will exist in the same way physical ones do.
The IT battlefield is quite different... it involves infecting Windows PCs with worms a la Storm, creating back doors into databases so that you know what the enemy is doing before they do, etc. It doesn't involve (primarily) using Chinese IP addresses to deface the white house web page.
The Chinese know how to manipulate information to alter reality. They are much better at this than countries like the US (although I think the US government is improving in this area). THIS is the IT battlefield; manipulation of information and perception.
that's like saying that if you don't know how to disassemble an internel combustion engine, you'll never be able to drive anywhere
the computer is just a tool. knowing how the tool works means you'll make a good salary, not run the world. you're an engineer, not a leader
it is in fact a mark of your naivete that you think mastery of a computer means mastery of the real world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Geeks please go to boot camp so they don't be takin my internets.
There have been a number of projects that I have worked on in IT with Chinese consultants based in China. The shocking (and most often shocking) revelation I have had is the persistance for step by step instructions to almost everything. I sometimes find myself wondering what it is exactly (other than a recently over-changed government policy that now embraces MS) they actually utilize, but more importantly contribute, the usefulness of OSS because of the amount of outside thinking and experimentation that is needed to become comfortable using such systems.
Anecdote is this: China constultants assists in co-coding a massive project that involves originally western-sourced code. Upon being provided an API and an approach-based guidline to expand on the source, they insist on step by step instructions and 'scripts' for things as simple as using a copy command. Now being well-versed in J2EE projects, I would expect more than 'step 72 gives this error, everything is broke'. Eventually when you find out that step 72 broke because the pre-requisites and steps 13-20 were ommitted, you can't help but wonder how to teach the taught, 'thought' and encouraging different approaches to a solution.
Truth is realized, not told...
Bush: Condi! Nice to see you. What's happening?
Condi: Sir, I have the report here about the new leader of China.
Bush: Great. Lay it on me.
Condi: Hu is the new leader of China.
Bush: That's what I want to know.
Condi: That's what I'm telling you.
Bush: That's what I'm asking you. Who is the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes.
Bush: I mean the fellow's name.
Condi: Hu.
Bush: The guy in China.
Condi: Hu.
Bush: The new leader of China.
Condi: Hu.
Bush: The Chinaman!
Condi: Hu is leading China.
Bush: Now whaddya' asking me for?
Condi: I'm telling you Hu is leading China.
Bush: Well, I'm asking you. Who is leading China?
Condi: That's the man's name.
Bush: That's who's name?
Condi: Yes.
Bush: Will you or will you not tell me the name of the new leader of China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
Bush: Yassir? Yassir Arafat is in China? I thought he was in the Middle
East.
Condi: That's correct.
Bush: Then who is in China?
Condi: Yes, sir.
Bush: Yassir is in China?
Condi: No, sir.
Bush: Then who is?
Condi: Yes, sir.
Bush: Yassir?
Condi: No, sir.
Bush: Look, Condi. I need to know the name of the new leader of China.
Get me the Secretary General of the U.N. on the phone.
Condi: Kofi?
Bush: No, thanks.
Condi: You want Kofi?
Bush: No.
Condi: You don't want Kofi.
Bush: No. But now that you mention it, I could use a glass of milk.
And then get me the U.N.
Condi: Yes, sir.
Bush: Not Yassir! The guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi?
Bush: Milk! Will you please make the call?
Condi: And call who?
Bush: Who is the guy at the U.N?
Condi: Hu is the guy in China.
Bush: Will you stay out of China?!
Condi: Yes, sir.
Bush: And stay out of the Middle East! Just get me the guy at the U.N.
Condi: Kofi.
Bush: All right! With cream and two sugars. Now get on the phone.
(Condi picks up the phone.)
Condi: Rice, here.
Bush: Rice? Good idea. And a couple of egg rolls, too. Maybe we should
send some to the guy in China. And the Middle East. Can you get
Chinese food in the Middle East?
The Republic of China is under a persistent threat of a (Mainland) Chinese attack. United States has long ago promised to defend them, so we have to listen carefully (and take notes!), when the current rival — and an unlikely-but-possible future enemy — talks about any kind of war.
Sooner or later China may also decide to begin solving its (over)population issues by expanding into Siberia, whose population density was always far smaller (orders of magnitude smaller) than China's and is now shrinking dramatically. In 10-30 years China will either be purchasing or conquering that land from Russia — if there are any Russians left to notice that is...
Then, of course, there is a long-simmering tension with India, which has resulted in an all-out war as recently as in 1962. And then there is Vietnam, which lost a piece of territory to China, who invaded to, pretty much, punish it for interfering with the Khmere Rouge earlier — a "family dispute" among the Communist thugs.
And last, although not necessarily least, is the continuing (and officially regulated) hatred towards Japan — "justified" or not, it may well escalate into an armed conflict in a decade or two, when an internal crisis inside China may lead its leaders to seek an external war to unify the country. It may be harder for its neighbors to repel, than it was to deal with the desperate Argentinian regime in a similar situation...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Terminator, Robocop, the Matrix and a decades worth of Gundam just made it through the censors last weekend and now everyones shitting themselves.
Well thats all we need more flippin robots trekin around screamin you want flied lice or bolied lice with that Ho Hummmmmmmmm ..
Karma
Considering I have a hard time understanding your post, could it be because they couldn't understand your guidelines?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Manipulating information and perception will only increase distrust and dissent when you have an opposition like the FOSS or Truth movement analyzing your every move.
If SCO, Microsoft, and the US Government can't do it by now, what makes you think they could tomorrow? They have all the money in the world, yet they can't convince me with their propoganda. Why is that? Because they lack credibility. At this rate they will never have it.
ae911truth.org
I don't know about you, but I believe the law of conservation of momentum. The only way they will win their argument is to eliminate our freedom. But then the debate is over, and I don't think anyone wants that. I personally enjoy the debate.
But China is a bit different, I don't know.
a clone army is coming
I'll be able to take the blanket complete block of all Chinese IP addresses out of my firewall? That sort of defense?
Clean up your networks, and you might see my customers again. The million to one, attack vs. customer ratio is what you aughta fix you fascist fucks.
Who saw this as a way of computerizing all of China's military system so that they can have a full supply chain management system that keeps track of everything so they can mobilize all thier wharehouses, brainwipe supersoldiers canidates, and attack within 10 days or less?
An electronic Pearl Harbor? I know all asians look alike to caucasians, but it's China we should worry about, not Japan. It's more of an electic Boxer Rebellion.
Sorry, couldn't resist. It's nice to know the CIA is apparently paying attention. A random question to anyone: how much traffic enters/leaves the US a second? Just how big of a MOAF (mother of all firewalls) would the government need to prevent increased latency(not that this would be a government concern of course)?
Now, I do not speak any form of Chinese, but I have read a damn lot of Engrish. Especially given the surrounding statements, this sounds like he's talking about computerizing the army. Just because the word IT is mentioned doesn't make it cyberwarfare. My impression of his remarks as quoted in the article is that he wants Chinese soldiers to have similar capabilties as US forces are. There's just too little information, the terms are NOT the standard english phrases that would be used to describe it, so I suspect a bad translation and assumptions went into making this article. I would want a tranlator WELL fluent in both Enlgish and Chinese to affirm that the Chinese words here translated as "IT based warfare" meant "cyberwarefare" and not "computer assisted soldiering".
Everyone knows China as the world's foremost assholes already
No, everyone does not know this. The US and the UK invaded Iraq at the cost of hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives. I am not defending China here, but from where I am sitting, they're not invading and killing as much.
I want to think and do and say as I fuckin feel like, within the limits of law
Don't you realise they're just different laws? Many people in Europe think it's repressive to require women to cover their breasts on the beach. Many people in America think it's repressive to require women to cover their faces in the street.
Freedom is far from absolute. People are quick to jump on something that they consider wrong.
Having 4 times the population we do, they'll have roughly 4 times the hacking power.
Table-ized A.I.
It's a Universal Hardware OS - it's effectively invisible.
I know, you think I'm kidding - I"m not.
~hylas
Yup, I speak fluent Mandarin. Without more context, it's hard to say, but if your colleagues say it a lot, it's probably "nei-ge" (nei=that; ge=[measure word]), as in "Nei-ge CPU won't fit in nei-ge (or na-ge) motherboard." "Nei" is actually itself a kind of contraction of "na" (that) and "yi" (one).
For the first time in the civilization's history, there is an invention that brings ENTIRE world together, yet some crowd can only think of "warfare" "strong armed force" "defense" (defense my butt, anything for defense is always for offense) and shit.
If you let derelict, obsolete old coots run a nation, this happens. Repression of the elder citizens. I bet many of them still live in 1950s mindset.
Read radical news here
but from where I am sitting, they're not invading and killing as much.
From where I am sitting, it's pretty obvious that China already did all that stuff. Now they've got their troops planted all over places like Tibet and Inner Mongolia, so while the dust has settled, enough of us remember to know a 'bad guy.'
Freedom isn't 'absolute' because you have to cite a fricking context for the word to mean anything at all. You can say that 'dark isn't absolute' and make just as strong an argument.
Bud: Yes.
Lou: What?
Bud: He's the Secretary of the Treasury.
Lou: Who?
Bud: He's the President.
Lou: Who is?
Bud: Right.
Lou: The President is Right?
Bud: Sometimes he is.
Lou: What are you talking about?
Bud: Hu is right sometimes.
Lou: I don't know.
Both: THIRD BASE!
It's a very dark ride.
No, he's pretty much hit the nail on the head. The Chinese engineers I've worked with are helpless. They have this culture where it's expected that you can refuse to work unless the bosses have provided you with a step-by-step plan. Unless they're copying something, of course - then they're fast as lightning (because someone has provided them with a model). It sounds like a stereotype but it's absolutely true.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Do you really feel so small as to disbelieve in the -possibility- that people outside the kind you meet in your daily life frequent the same place you do?
The truth about slashdot: No sane manager of a large IT department would forego at least LURKING (by self or by proxy) on slashdot. Contrary to popular belief, if you look past the high-school smartasses you'll find highly intelligent people debating the finer points of complex problems (societal, technical, and other) and providing extremely enlightening commentary.
Also, I'd bet dollars to donuts that at least ONE (likely a few) of the common posters here at slashdot is a person that 90% of us would recognize from the teevee.
I have never been overly public, never blogged or distributed a newsletter, but I like commenting on almost any topic, and providing answers to questions asked me. Due to some mental anomalies ... I lack focus/interest to achieve almost anything. I am 55yo+, a high school dropout, no college graduation/degree with 160SemHrs+, curiosity and questions are my greatest perpetual distractions and entertainment. I am honored to have been a US Marine at 17yo, 1969-71, but never in Vietnam.
... I will only lay claim to a few things (1) the quote; "Reality is self-induced hallucination." [my attempt at objectivity], (2) The flag/emblem of "Knights of the WoeFolk Continent, Order of Quixote." [my delusion, http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j186/oh21/_Order_of_Quixote_2.png%5D, (3) maybe, not likely, a few more things before ....
....
Anyway, all comments I make are open comment for anyone to use or expound on. I only expect that any quotes attributed to me be verbatim, and any interpretations always be attributed to the interpreters' understanding or dogma. IOW: make them your own
I don't do/complete much
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Their Windows-based ticketing system crashed on the first day. If they are using Windows I think we have nothing to worry about on the IT-warfare department.