Low-Cost Board Runs Linux, Google Apps

An anonymous reader writes to mention that hardware hacking enthusiasts can now get their hands on the guts of the Everex TC2502 Linux PC for just $60 (USD). The compact x86-compatible "gOS Dev Board" offers a lightweight Linux-based OS designed for use with Google Apps. " Along with a Firefox browser supporting the Google toolbar, gOS includes local productivity applications, such as OpenOffice.org. However, its main goal is "coherently packaging Google Apps to give users the idea that they can use Google as their main environment," explained Paul Kim, of Everex. "

Comments

That's a smoking deal

[stoolpigeon]

Throw that bad boy in a nice case with some ram and a decent hard drive, and it's not a bad deal. You could probably put together a machine with maxed out ram, decent storage and a much more attractive case for the same amount if not less than you'd pay for the Walmart version. And while the processor isn't a powerhouse, I'm sure any distro could do allright on there. Gentoo might not be the best choice, but otherwise... (Just kidding there. While the gentoo crowds seem to have calmed - it really was a joke.)

Re:That's a smoking deal

[vondo]

This is a great deal. I use a board almost like that (smaller that uATX, though) as a file/web/database server. It runs Ubuntu 6.06. I think I paid about $80 for mine. I think I put 256 MB in mine plus 80+400GB of disk. I have a Gb-E NIC waiting to go in it at some point.

The only thing I would change is to put a bigger heatsink on the CPU to eliminate the 40mm fan. My fan crapped out and getting a good replacement for those is always a pain.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[TooMuchToDo]

Let me build on what you posted. Assume you also put in a solid state hard drive. The power consumption would be extremely low, and you could use them in offices across the country with little need to admin a full Windows environment.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[cheater512]

I am very seriously considering getting one.
Its a sweet board with a perfect price.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[stoolpigeon]

I've been googling around and I can't find the same thing with a processor for close to it. Boards without a processor come close - but not with it already included. I think this may be my Christmas present to myself this year.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[houstonbofh]

The form factor is to big to fit in the really small cases (mini-atx) and too small to expand in a big case. Besides, motherboard CPU combos at about this price with more performance are not uncommon. http://www.directron.com/nf61sm7comb58.html Nothing really special about this but the Google tag.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[theGreater]

For additional extra credit, google for the following:

Walmart/Everex GPC TC2502 (VIA CN700 + VT8237R Chipset), PC2500E

Or just check the LinuxBIOS Mailing List thread about this very board, which is available from ClubIT.com for about $60.00 with free shipping.

-theGreater.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[TopSpin]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135057

$9 more, NVidia graphics processor, Athlon 3200+, same 0-MB of RAM...

You'll need a heat sink. Avoid installing >1 DIMM. Does that qualify as 'close'?

Re:That's a smoking deal

[FrankSchwab]

Try: http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5325528
Intel uAtx board, Celeron 215 soldered on, takes DDR-II 533 or 400, onboard graphics, one PCI port, $70.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[stoolpigeon]

I really miss living by Frys. Closest to me is now an 8 hour drive away. That is close - little bit slower processor, lower cap on ram - but it is a decent deal, you are correct.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[LWATCDR]

Yea but it takes DDR and not DDR2. That actually drives up the cost of memory :(

Re:That's a smoking deal

[LWATCDR]

It only has one ATA and no SATA ports so it wouldn't make a good NAS

Re:That's a smoking deal

[Anonymous Coward]

>Athlon 3200+

Maybe. Previous ECS boards (really PC Chips) of similar "combo" design overrated their procressors by 1000 - 1500 MHz (okay, not MHz, but "Pro"s, IIRC). You might actually be getting a 1500 MHz board...

Re:That's a smoking deal

[orangepeel]

That's the Intel D201GLY. You might be better off with the D201GLY2. It's faster, fan-free, includes SATA, and it's roughly the same price. I think retailers are clearing stock of the original version right now, which is why the V2 board is a little harder to find. Do a search for it at www.google.com/products/ though (for example) and it'll turn up, again at roughly the same price as the earlier model.

If only it had a DVI output instead of that dinosaur analog VGA output -- and possibly a gigabit network controller -- and I'd really be sold.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[DragonWriter]

The form factor is to big to fit in the really small cases (mini-atx) and too small to expand in a big case.

The really small cases are, for instance, mini-ITX. Mini-ATX is almost exactly the same size (area) as Micro-ATX, but a different arrangement (8.2x11.2cm instead of 9.6x9.6cm), so its true that this Micro-ATX MB won't fit in a Mini-ATX case, and is too big in one dimension. But, just the same, a Mini-ATX MB wouldn't fit a Micro-ATX case, for exactly the same reason. Micro-ATX cases are IMO reasonably small, and (but maybe I just look at the wrong places) it seems that there is a greater variety of Micro-ATX cases available.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[JeepFanatic]

But if you're like me and you've already got older unused DDR ram lying around that's not really a problem. If you're going to run linux on it you can easily get away with a spare 2 x 256 setup for 512MB. If you don't have any lying around, I see RAM like this on craigslist all the time for pretty cheap.

Re:That's a smoking deal

[zeroidlelavabit.com]

I agree with stoolpigeon, one could make a nice low cost linux pc out of that board-maybe even a few decent servers for little dough. I's run slackware on that!

Re:That's a smoking deal

[jamiethehutt]

$9 more, NVidia graphics processor, Athlon 3200+, same 0-MB of RAM...

You'll need a heat sink. Avoid installing >1 DIMM. Does that qualify as 'close'?

This board doesn't compete with an Athlon 3200 on performance/cost, it does however blow it out the water on efficiency. I want a router/firewall box and having it running 24/7/365 means the electricity adds up and the Athlon ends up far more expensive. I don't have the exact figures but when I worked this out for my parents file server we found that it was cheaper over 2 years to swap their 2Ghz Durion that they already had (cost £0) for a MiniITX very similar to this (cost ~£120).

Basically if I could get one of these in the UK for ~£40 ($80) I'd buy it without a second though.

The Artist Formerly Known as "Thin Client"

[Anonymous Coward]

"a lightweight...OS designed for use with [web apps]"

aka: Thin Client

Coming soon to a handset near you! Oh, wait...

Re:The Artist Formerly Known as "Thin Client"

[vxir]

Thin? TFA says its based on Ubuntu!

Re:The Artist Formerly Known as "Thin Client"

[Fred_A]

Thin? TFA says its based on Ubuntu! That could be made light, since it's "based" on it.
What cracked me up was :
"with the lightweight Enlightenment window manager"

I remember how this would have been considered downright silly a few years back :)

Lawl

[dippitydoo]

Nice. i want one.

I don't get it

[LaughingCoder]

What exactly is the BIG DEAL? I would still need to buy a disk drive ($50), some RAM ($30), a box/supply ($30), a monitor ($100), a keyboard and mouse ($20), and perhaps some speakers ($15) ... the motherboard and CPU are no longer the major expense in putting together a PC. Heck, newegg has the Celeron D315 (2.26GHz) for $38, and an MSI barebones system (box, 300W power supply, motherboard) for $70. Add in another $100 for HD/RAM/KB/Mouse an you have a pretty decent system for $208.

Re:I don't get it

[crowbarsarefornerdyg]

Or you could just go buy the bloody computer at Wal-Mart. It's the same board as the one they're selling at Wal-Mart for $198.

Re:I don't get it

[vondo]

Well, for one, the nice thing about these Via CPUs is that they don't use much power. You can easily put together a whole computer that uses 50W. I wouldn't use it as a desktop, but I use something similar as a home server.

BTW, the Walmart price does not include a monitor.

Re:I don't get it

[stoolpigeon]

But the one at Walmart would have less ram, a smaller hard drive and I'm guessing not the nicest peripherals. So for the savvy geek shopper - an even nicer machine at the same price as Walmart's machine is within reach. I think that is pretty awesome myself.

Re:I don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

But hasn't that always been the case?

Re:I don't get it

[DragonWriter]

What exactly is the BIG DEAL?

The big deal is that, when the ~$200 system was announced in its full-size case here, people commented that they'd like to have the same thing, but in a smaller form factor, since the board is, after all, a Micro-ATX board. Now they can.

Re:I don't get it

[vrmlguy]

The deal is, you don't have to buy all of those pieces. For instance, I already have a beign box, KVM switch and smallish power supply lying around. ("Smallish" os OK because ClubIT quotes "maximum power draw of just 20 watts and idle power as low as 2 watts".) I'd like to get one and add a couple of big honking disks. Newegg has "Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM" at $99 right now. Mirror two of those babies and I'd have a fine home server for Gallery, email and rsnapshot backups. Even adding some RAM, the whole thing'll cost less than $300.

Re:I don't get it

[Joe The Dragon]

Why get a Celeron D when you can get a amd x2 for $65.99 and the am2 systems boards cost less as well.

Re:I don't get it

[crowbarsarefornerdyg]

I'm not debating that at all; my point is simply that for the cost of the motherboard they're hawking you can buy the whole computer. You and I are on the same wavelength about computers anyway. lol.

Re:I don't get it

[Tumbleweed]

What exactly is the BIG DEAL? I would still need to buy...

Anyone truly deserving of the label 'geek' already has all of that stuff laying around from previous machines. I know I've got a 20-pin PC Power & Cooling PSU just itching to get back in the game, and some old DDR2 RAM as well. They're crying out, I tells ya!

Re:I don't get it

[OrangeTide]

Why do you need a harddrive and monitor?

Also C7 has hardware crypto. it's worth getting just to play with that:)

Re:I don't get it

[littlewink]

You could get 1 GB RAM from HP for $9 (look at the rebate form: it really is a $40 rebate on a $49 item). A used power supply costs $5. I never pay for a monitor, mouse or keyboard; too many are being thrown or given away these days in the rush to flat screens and wireless mice.

Re:I don't get it

[andreyw]

The $60 you can spend buying this overstock holdover from 2004 can get your a better motherboard + CPU. Thus I don't see why on earth this is a "good deal". It's just a slow-ass VIA-based Mini-ITX motherboad. The fact that Walmart is selling something based on it should already be a warning sign.

Re:I don't get it

[DragonWriter]

The $60 you can spend buying this overstock holdover from 2004 can get your a better motherboard + CPU.

Most of the alternatives people have posted that are similar in price have some advantages and some disadvantages. None seem to be clearly and unquestionably "better" in every way, just different and in the same general ballpark. So perhaps its not outstanding, just another low-cost option that's well supported in Linux. Which, unsurprisingly enough, is somewhat interesting to a substantial part of the Slashdot crowd.

It's just a slow-ass VIA-based Mini-ITX motherboad.

Micro-ATX, actually.

The fact that Walmart is selling something based on it should already be a warning sign.

I suppose that we should be suspicious of Linux, too, then...

Re:I don't get it

[vondo]

Flex-ATX actually, I think. They say micro, but the size quoted is smaller than micro.

Re:I don't get it

[mrand]

know I've got a 20-pin PC Power & Cooling PSU just itching to get back in the game, and some old DDR2 RAM as well. They're crying out, I tells ya!

What do you mean old DDR2? How can it be old when DDR2 wasn't introduced but four years ago!? I don't own ANY DDR2 memory (or DDR3), much less any old DDR2.

Now, I do have 128 or 256 MB of EDO DRAM, a 700 MB SCSI hard drive (cost me around $1k in 1992), and a real AT-style keyboard (with big connector) that I wouldn't mind putting back into service... or we could go back further in the closet and gut the AT-compatible by tossing the 10 MHz 286 motherboard, and use its 70 MB hard drive from ~1987. I think I'll pass on trying to make use of the TRS-80/Tandy 16b with its full-height 12 MB hard drive. Some things are just not worth it, even to a nerd.

      Marc

Re:I don't get it

[DragonWriter]

Flex-ATX actually, I think. They say micro, but the size quoted is smaller than micro.

Good point. What is it with mbs that are marketted as a different form factor than the most accurate one? I mean, sure, you can use a flex-ATX mb in a micro-ATX (or plain ATX) case, but why wouldn't you make sure that all your marketing material emphasized flex-ATX, since that gives the buyer more, well, flexibility than micro-ATX.

Re:I don't get it

[darthflo]

If you really care about the power usage and can live with some restrictions, use a notebook instead. With some power-saving features enabled and the display usually turned off, you'll average some 10-15 watts with a real (read "Core Duo class") processor and a USB or second internal harddrive. Base cost's gonna be higher though.

Re:I don't get it

[James_Duncan8181]

Seconding this. My Lenovo x61s can run at 12w with the display and wifi on.

Re:I don't get it

[yoprst]

I don't get it
That's why you're not in marketing:)

Re:I don't get it

[makapuf]

In fact it's a new BYOKBMHDRBM computer design
(Bring you own keyboard, mouse, Hard drive, ram, box and monitor)

Re:I don't get it

[Tumbleweed]

What do you mean old DDR2?

It'll be old when you use this as an excuse to get a new system, and thus have old DDR2.

You need to learn to think creatively. You'll get more new toys that way.

Re:I don't get it

[Algorithmnast]

You could get 1 GB RAM from HP for $9 (look at the rebate form: it really is a $40 rebate on a $49 item). A used power supply costs $5. I never pay for a monitor, mouse or keyboard; too many are being thrown or given away these days in the rush to flat screens and wireless mice.

You mean you could have gotten that deal.

The deal specifies that any ram must be purchased before 10/31/07 - and you posted about it a few days later.

But at least I'm aware of that site now, so thanks for the mention of the link.

ebay would be cheaper & better

[Anonymous Coward]

i bet you could throw together a p3 or amd athlon system booting off a usb pen for similar cash and it would tear appart a crippled amd 3rd world processor

Re:ebay would be cheaper & better

[telchine]

i bet you could throw together a p3 or amd athlon system booting off a usb pen for similar cash and it would tear appart a crippled amd 3rd world processor

Yes, maybe you could, and maybe that system would better suit your needs... but not everyone's.

However, that USB pen is a read/write device. It could theoretically get infected ith viruses and spyware, the end user could accidentally wipe it. All of those are extra work for a corporate IT department.

If you're a company, you could build a system out of these parts for well under $200 (and that includes a keyboard, mouse and monitor). It'd be perfect for the 90% of the company that are office drones that only need a word processor, a spreadsheet and email access.

With these machine, you get all that, it's backed up remotely and there's no maintainence and support costs are next to nothing...

"oh dear, you spilt coffee over your computer? Here's another one, just use the same log in details that you did before"

You don't nee dto train anyone to understand computers. You just need someone on minimum wage who can put the components together and plug in peripherals.

And the nice thing about not having a standard operating system and a fast processor is that your office drone employees won't waste their working time playing games.

No, I wouldn't want one of these computers, but I bet there's one hell of a lot of corporates out there that will see dollar signs in their eyes when they realise the potential of these thin-client computers.

True

[dippitydoo]

You have opened my eyes. I no longer want one.

Wow

[teknopurge]

From the article:

"..but with the lightweight Enlightenment window manager instead of heavy Gnome/KDE desktops. "

I never thought I would live to see the day.....

Re:Wow

[Otter]

Heh, that's exactly what I said when I read that...

Re:Wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Hehe, me too! Anyone else here remember the late 90s?

Re:Wow

[GiMP]

Seems you're not alone! Enlightenment a light window manager? Sheesh! Next thing they will tell us is that it ships with a lightweight word-processor called Emacs.

Then again, in those days, we thought Netscape Communicator 4.x was bloated... although, despite living in the age of dial-up, it was at least 17MB, the same size that Firefox is currently!

"dev board" ?

[MrTrick]

This is just a motherboard, with a C7 processor already attached to it. No memory, no non-volatile storage...

According to TFA, it "comes with gOS", but gOS doesn't sit anywhere on this 'dev board', it has to be installed onto a regular hard drive just like a normal computer.

Bad article. It's not a dev board, it's an entirely normal mobo. The ONLY thing about it that is even remotely special is that there are linux drivers for all its components.

If it were a dev board I'd want at least some attached flash storage, and some interesting pin headers.

Re:"dev board" ?

[jmorris42]

> This is just a motherboard, with a C7 processor...

Ya, that was my problem with the piece too, no reason for it to be on linuxdevices since it is just another Via Mobo+CPU deal, this time blown up to the MicroATX form factor instead of the Mini-ITX VIA normally prefers. $60 for Mobo and CPU is OK I guess but not especially newsworthy.

"Devel" board to me implies something to develop for an embedded 'target'. What is the target system this board aims at? A PC running an x86 Linux isn't embedded computing. It isn't new, interesting or different. Linux on x86 is now mainstream. A decade ago a commercial outfit pushing Linux systems would have been newsworthy.

Re:"dev board" ?

[Jeff DeMaagd]

I think might just be a certified hardware/software combination and nothing more. They would probably include a software install CD that would be already set up for a quick, painless and predictable installation - probably with minimal options, if any.

Re:"dev board" ?

[monopole]

While just a another miniATX it is nice to know that is fully supported by gOS and presumably Ubuntu I was disapointed to not see onboard WiFi with compatible drivers.

Re:"dev board" ?

[somneo]

According to TFA the gOS company wants developers^N to fix their poor hardware choices:

Experience our first developer product. We encourage developers to advance the currently limited driver support for this eco-friendly VIA board.

Re:"dev board" ?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's simple, this is a ClubIT ad. As numerous other posters have pointed out, you can get a myriad of boards in this price range, and there's nothing fancy about the gOS since you can just download that yourself (and, as pointed out, this 'dev kit' *cough* does not come with any hard drive).

Re:"dev board" ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The ONLY thing about it that is even remotely special is that there are linux drivers for all its components."

Actually, having Linux drivers for ALL the components is very 'kin special!

Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays?

[jfim]

The gOS distribution [...] is based on the just-released Ubuntu 7.10 ("Gutsy Gibbon") distro, but with the lightweight Enlightenment window manager instead of heavy Gnome/KDE desktops.

Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays? Is it because Enlightenment improved or because Gnome/KDE got bigger? I remember it being quite unstable/slow a decade ago, but how have things changed in E?

Re:Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays?

[dippitydoo]

I thought so too. It seems to require more resources than KDE or gnome. gOS FTW!

Re:Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays?

[JK_the_Slacker]

Of course, there's NO way that software could improve much in a decade. I mean, come on, obviously Windows Server 2003 isn't any different than Windows 3.1. Also, Quake 4 is pretty much a clone of the original Quake. Likewise, Final Fantasy VII was no different than the first one in the series.

I'll likely lose karma for that. Oh bother.

Re:Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays?

[dbIII]

It always could be. The demo themes showed off all the shiny bits available with different large background pics on each desktop. I used to run it on a pentium 60 with a fairly lightweight theme. Rob Malda (aka Taco) even did a few relatively lightweight themes and his theme site led a lot of enlightenment users to Slashdot on day 1.

I'm currently using the Ganymede theme which is pretty and doesn't consume a lot of resources.

Re:Enlightenment is lightweight nowadays?

[Almahtar]

WHAT? You have no idea what you're talking about. I use both KDE and Gnome a lot, and when I feel like it I switch to E17 for variety. On my 512 MB/Ram notebook KDE and Gnome tend to use around 160-220 MB all started up these numbers include the kernel and everything. E17 uses about 45. Once again this includes the kernel.

Getting from Login to fully functional desktop in E17 takes about 1.5 seconds.

I love KDE and Gnome and the functionality they have, but nobody can tell me E17 doesn't whip the pants off of them for performance.

Upgrading emachine

[Joaz Banbeck]

I found an old emachine sitting by the trash. 2.8 celeron, 80GB, etc. Not bad for the price. I found out why someone threw it out. The motherboard is glitchy: it won't recognize drives unless it is warmed up for an hour or two, and even then it is a 50/50 chance. I was going to canabalize it for parts until now.
I assume that this board should be an easy match. Anyone see any problems? Thanks.

Re:Upgrading emachine

[Sleepy]

It's not a good match. It may WORK, but that's not the same thing.

C7 is good for embedded apps, or low-power low-heat. It's not at all responsive in the way that your USUAL overpowered desktop CPU is.

If your budget is $60 same as this, I'd get a CPU/mobo combo from NewEgg or Directron. Seriously. If you thought a 2.8Ghz Celeron would be OK, you can easily match it with a AM2 processor or an older P4. Shop around.

but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run Linux?

Re:but...

[tc3driver]

Ummm RTFA?

Re:but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmm GaSoH?

(Get a Sense of Humor)

Re:but...

[maxwell demon]

Ummm RTFA? Or RTFS? Actually RTFH! (H = Headline)

Re:but...

[Anonymous Coward]

The bonus is that it doesn't run Vista.

Minimal Extras?

[Doc Ruby]

What about just a power supply and that board screwed into a $10 Radioshack case that isn't even for PCs, but can have some holes cut for cables to go thru, and a tube for the CPU fan to vent? No HD or VGA (except for initial OS install), just a tiny USB flash and NFS.

Is there a PS that can drive this little device that doesn't have a fan? And can that little sucker run a Linux that can run madplay and curl, so I can stream audio from my network? Maybe even build this sucker into some network speakers, even WiFi, with a USB or PCI device?

Re:Minimal Extras?

[macz]

Just get a Linksys WRT54GL wireless router, put DD-WRT on it and you have the power supply, Wireless access, and a minimal amount of flash ram runing Linux as a mostly general purpose computer. Total cost is about $60-70.

Re:Minimal Extras?

[Doc Ruby]

But that doesn't give me an audio output, so running curl and madplay won't give me a very good streaming audio player.

Re:Minimal Extras?

[orangepeel]

Try looking through the 3 categories of options here. In particular, in the last category (just listed as "Power Supplies") check into the PicoPSU units. Regardless, be aware that pretty much all of those small-scale power supply units require an external AC power adapter, but that's not a big concession given how much more flexibility it gets you.

Re:Minimal Extras?

[ScrappyLaptop]

google 'picoPSU' and your dreams will come true.

Re:Minimal Extras?

[Doc Ruby]

They all cost $40+. This MB costs only $60.

Whole PCs for use as consoles cost only $250. Why can't I find one that just runs Linux, and converts ethernet to audio (no kbd, monitor, etc) when pointed at a streaming server, without a fan and under $100?

Re:Minimal Extras?

[darthflo]

Consider the Terratec Noxon series. Prices range around $100 for the not-top-of-the-range models (had the luck of getting a first-gen WiFi-capable one for some $60), they come with a remote, play stuff from your media library and so on.
What they don't do, though, is run Linux. If you're interested in a li'l thingie that plays music, you might just like 'em, if it's just about hackery and not about getting that stuff to actually run, you won't ;)

Re:Minimal Extras?

[Doc Ruby]

The Noxons seem to cost about $135 and up. Used PSPs cost starting $100, and new ones will cost about that much as the upgraded version pushes them out the pipeline. PSPs have hacks for audio stream playing, run WiFi, and have lots of other features (and games). So probably the PSPs are the way to go right now.

Maybe there's some models of Linux GSM phones with Bluetooth and stereo headsets that cost under $100 used (and are available as they fail in the phone market). Those would be perfect. And the next generation will probably have stereo Bluetooth audio, so can power Bluetooth speakers, possibly in several rooms simultaneously.

The only thing special is

[transporter_ii]

The C7 processor is supposed to use a lot less power than a normal chip. From what they are saying, someone leaving a computer on a lot could expect to save 10.00 a month in electricity. IF that is true, it wouldn about pay for itself in 24 months (again, that assumes what they are saying is true).

I set one of the 299.00 Wal-Mart computers up for a local volunteer fire station that had an application that needed XP, but they could only find Vista computers new. I wiped the drive and installed a legal copy of XP Pro for them. I thought it was pretty darn snappy with a gig of RAM in it. In fact, I plan on getting one of the 199.00 ones with Linux installed on it.

Transporter_ii

Cheap Cluster?

[LithiumX]

Any opinions on if the cpu has enough juice to be worthwhile as an inexpensive test platform for some distributed computing experiments?

I've been hunting for cheap systems to put together for some experimental work I want to do (as well as learning how to properly run a Beowulf), and so far this looks like the best deal I've seen. With onboard lan and video, all I'd need to do is toss in some memory, hack together some sort of combined power supply, and build a rack to store the boards in, and I've got a test platform that might just fall into my (underpaid developer) price range.

Any comparisons to get an idea of what kind of processing power you actually get out of it? I wouldn't be going for a badass grid system, but there's little point if I might as well round up a bunch of old 486's.

Re:Cheap Cluster?

[vrmlguy]

The cheapest way to play with a Beowulf cluster is to set one up a cluster of virtual machines, using Xen or VMware. I'm more familar with the VMware products, so I'll describe them. You don't want VMware Player, since it is optimized to provide good graphics for playing games and the like. Instead you want VMware Server, which only supports standard VGA but is optimized to run lots of VMs in the background. Both of these are free, btw. Once you have your hypervisor set up, install several identical single-core VMs. Try for twice as many VMs as you have real processor cores. You almost certainly want to do this on a 2-way or 4-way processor, to get plenty of multiprocessing. You don't want to set up multi-core VMs, because they tend to perform much worse than virtual single-cores. "Attach" everything to a virtual switch than isn't connected to the outside world. Now you can experiment with all sorts of Beowulf configurations. Only when you get something that you like (say, for ray tracing) should you consider translating it into real hardware.

Re:Cheap Cluster?

[vrmlguy]

Hey, I've found *lots* of ways over the years to destroy a CMOS; damn few of them require building a cluster. ;-)

Obviously, you don't build a cluster out of VMs to get performance. You do it to get experience with everything that you listed, without having to also worry about hardware issues. Then once the bugs are worked out of your design, you can move over to actual hardware and experience a whole new learning curve without having to also worry about software issues.

i doubt that

[erlehmann]

pre-made thin clients witout moving parts and with low power requirements (like sun's) would make more sense to me in the long run.

Cheap power efficient servers?

[Bert64]

What i'd like is a tiny power efficient motherboard, such that i can put lots of them in a rackmount case...
Coupled with a single PSU to power several baords (i figure a regular server psu should easily handle a stack of these small boards) and some high speed server fans to cool all of them at once (single boards shouldnt need much cooling, but a stack of them in a confined space would)...
And maybe a small unmanaged switch in the case too, running off the same PSU.
Like a blade server but on the cheap. Blade servers cost a packet for the empty chassis, and tend to be very power hungry.

Can this be done? Has anyone done this? I've seen craziness like places that host a stack of mac minis as servers, but surely the approach i mentioned would be more efficient... People want really cheap non-virtual hosting.

Re:Cheap power efficient servers?

[Jorophose]

VIA used to sell a 4-socket C3 motherboard. A local store still has a few.

And since each C3 would consume only about 4-7W (depends on model) that's a grand maximum of 28W, probably idling at around 4W. It was intented for servers, but I don't think it sold very well. Still, it was a great idea.

Re:Cheap power efficient servers?

[Anonymous Coward]

single board computer. problem is the buggers are expensive! best bet would be to look at Rackable (yeah...) or the Supermicro 2 boards in 1U they have.

personally I'd buy a nice 2U server with a ton o' RAM and then Xen/VMware Server it out. cost = ~$0 for the software. and everyone gets a "dedicated" server. hosting clients 'touch' physical still?

Re:Cheap power efficient servers?

[Anonymous Coward]

By the time you are done building your rack of cheap motherboards you will discover that it would have been cheaper/faster/more efficient to host multiple systems on a piece of large iron and utilize something like vmware.

There's a reason this doesn't exist in the market. Its not cheaper, its not more power efficient and its not faster. (And its a pain in the neck to configure to boot...)

Re:Cheap power efficient servers?

[Bert64]

Well, a lot of customers don't want a virtual server, but they still want cheap...

Re:Cheap power efficient servers?

[Bert64]

What was the model number of these boards? I'd like to read up on them...

Yes, but does it run linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wait....

Maybe, but not practical...

[Junta]

So key things when building a beowulf cluster are performance per dollar and performance per watt. Hit sweet spots in those and you can adjust the rest through node count.

In this case, buying 4 of these boards would probably suck down more power than a single quad-core Intel planar+processor. The cost of 4 boards (plus memory, etc) would probably be not much cheaper than consolidating all of that into one chassis. So if expecting a significant lifetime out of it, it's not really worth it. You can put together similar budget systems for maybe 30% more money, but with probably 50-70% more performance and better performance per watt.

Now, if it offered say, 15% less performance per planar, but 25% less power consumption at 30% lower price, then yes, it may make sense to buy it and increase node count to offset the difference. But my understanding is that the difference in performance is quite drastic, more drastic than the cost savings or power consumption figures. I heard the VIA platform takes two clock cycles to execute a single-precision floating-point operation. For comparison, current Intel archictecture acheives 4 double-precision flops for every clock cycle (theoretical max). This is of key interest if wanting to compare your setup against the Top500.

Now if your intent is simply to learn the in and outs of clustering, with no practical work expected, and you lack old hardware to hobble together, it may be educational. However, it's likely that any old hardware lying around would be on the order of the same amount of educational value.

The target market is obviously areas where they won't need more than one, in which case scaling back power and cost at the expense of performance is a no-brainer. Other interesting places for VIA products ('just-enough' processing at a low TDP) are embedded. I've been wanting to piece together a Car-PC, but haven't overcome my laziness. A car-pc is an excellent target for VIA based products.

Re:Maybe, but not practical...

[LithiumX]

Heh. I specifically kept my old car after it finally broke down and was replaced (due to negligible trade-in value). Since then, I used it as a training platform for basic repair - and it works again.

That means I have a fully functional older car (and a 99 Saturn SL2 isn't that bad for an extra car), and I've been thinking along the same lines (though I intended to use a laptop - cheap older laptops seem much easier to maintain in a car due to low power, batteries, inbuilt (but removable) display, and increased durability).

Have you had any kind of luck finding anything like a HUD system? Even if it requires silvering part of the winshield...

the complete machine

[bcrowell]

I kept checking the local walmarts for availability via the online inventory interface, and they were always out of stock. Checked SF, Chicago, NY, ... same deal. I wonder if there's been unexpectedly strong demand. The customer reviews on the walmart site look very positive. I finally ordered one via walmart's service where you can get it shipped to the store for free, and they'll you email when it arrives. This is for my young daughter to play flash games on, read wikipedia articles, etc. Not sure if I'll want to keep gOS or just install standard ubuntu. I guess I'll try installing gnome and seeing whether the performance is acceptable. The monitor and keyboard will probably end up costing more than the machine itself. I love the low power consumption, so I don't have to nag her to turn it off.

Re:the complete machine

[Anonymous Coward]

and they were always out of stock. Checked SF, Chicago, NY, ... same deal.

Mine is apparently in transit to the store as of today (I ordered back when slashdot first carried the story) so I'm guessing that it's not vaporware, just slow to fill what they probably thought would be non-existent demand.

I'm buying it because I have a powerhouse machine for gaming on weekends, but weekdays that machine is running a 100W+ video card (with the rest of the gear added to it) to read email and surf da web. For $200, I can plug it into the monitor (has both VGA and DVI ports) and shut down the other machine during the week, and if this gOS thing completely drives me up the wall, I can put Ubuntu or anything else on it (but will it run Plan9?).

Re:the complete machine

[Jairun]

If you want to just go with Ubuntu and not use the gOS (which may meet your requirements). Check out Xubuntu, it's Ubuntu coupled with the lightweight XFCE desktop. I've heard the performance on low end systems is pretty nice and you can still use the normal Ubuntu support. Personally I just enjoy the desktop environment even though I don't really need the minimalist footprint.

Re:the complete machine

[sowth]

... I can plug it into the monitor (has both VGA and DVI ports) and shut down the other machine during the week ...

Wouldn't a KVM switch do this job? At the very least, I'd think it would save wear and tear on your high powered machine's video port in the long run. Sounds like it has an expensive graphics card.

VGA output? No thanks

[r_jensen11]

I'd be tempted to get this, but then I saw that it only has VGA output. If I'm getting something like this, it's not to use it as a desktop: it's to turn it into a PVR or a frontend for Myth. But no S-Video or DVI? That's suicide for this board. This means I'd have to go buy a video card for this, since all of my spare video cards are AGP, which just gets added on to the bill.

I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for a VIA board for my next PVR. I suppose I'll also have to wait until some cable-card device supports Linux, too.

Re:VGA output? No thanks

[rmcd]

Maybe you can clear something up for me. I built a Myth frontend using an ASUS board (M2 NPV-VM) that supposedly had hdtv out on board, but I never got the fancy video options to work. I've ended up just using the VGA out (my 42" Panasonic HDTV has a computer input). It actually looks really good -- at 10' it's hard to distinguish the PVR signal from broadcast HDTV. I was surprised.

So I guess the two questions are: 1. Are you sure VGA won't do the job, and 2. What am I missing?

Thumbs up

[vladsinger]

Hey, it's linux on the desktop at the consumer level, and I like that.

Directron FTW

[argent]

How about this then?

http://www.directron.com/nf61sm7comb58.html

Biostar NF61S Micro 754 Motherboard and AMD Athlon 3100+ CPU with Cooler, $72.99

1 ATA + 2 SATA, plus nVidia GPU.

Mod Down.

[cralewyth]

This isn't interesting at all. It's flamebait.

Re:Mod Down.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why's it flamebait?
Last time I ran E (I don't even recall how long ago it was... almost ten years?), it was THE EyeCandy.
That's why you ran it. For the eyecandy.
I feel it as odd as anyone else to suddenly see it being referred to as lightweight, like entering the twilight zone I guess.

Re:Mod Down.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? because the GGP implied that they expect nothing to change over an entire decade.

gOS

[certain death]

And...if you would just prefer to try out gOS on something you already have lying around, here is a direct link to download it.

http://proyectos.pixelamigo.com/software/Ubuntu/gOS/

Have fun :o)

Re:gOS

[Anonymous Coward]

http://thinkgos.com/downloads.html

Undercutting TFA by $15.00...

[argent]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813185103&ATT=13-185-103
* PC CHIPS M789CG(3.0A) VIA C3 Samual 2 2000+(800MHz/133) VIA CLE266 Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo
* $44.99

Re:Undercutting TFA by $15.00...

[vondo]

While a board like that still has its uses, the board in TFA is a Via C7 running at almost twice the speed of this one and has two SATA ports. Power envelope is likely similar as the C3 is a pretty old processor now.

Re:Undercutting TFA by $15.00...

[Hadlock]

That's also about half the speed (and the processor is at least two generations behind the GOS board), plus the bus isn't as fast. Over 4 years (expected lifespan?) how much is your time worth to you?

Re:Undercutting TFA by $15.00...

[argent]

You can always spend more money and get a better system, or spend less money and get a worse. The board in TFA's main advantage was price... lord knows the VIA chips are none of them bahn-burners. If you really need more capability than the board I dug up provides, will the GOS system be any better suited to the job? I also found a better setup for about as much more than the board in TFA just down the street from here: which I previously posted about.

And on the other hand, if the GOS box will do the job, it's probably one even a pre-MMX Pentium will do just as well. Like my firewall: an almost 10 year old white-box PC I recovered from a dumpster, and I haven't found a good reason to replace it yet.

Not Some Fry's Special

[lmnfrs]

Search for that board elsewhere. It's just a cheap board, not some Fry's deal. You should have no trouble finding it online etc.

I was looking at that board recently, my only big complaint is that it has 10/100, not gigabit. It's a pretty sweet little platform.

Re:Not Some Fry's Special

[stoolpigeon]

yeah - it was just seeing the Frys name that made me think about how much I miss those stores. I could go to the one by my house and spend a couple hours without buying a thing. The first linux install I ever did was Suse and I bought it at Frys. (Had dial up at the time - so downloading wasn't really an option and I didn't know much about Linux. That got the ball rolling for me though.) Mostly I purchase stuff from Amazon - for a host of reasons. But sometimes it is fun to just wander aisles of tech and just browse. Or sometimes it is fun not to wait for something. Ah well, I'm not driving to Atlanta to do that and going to Best Buy makes me want to hurt myself, so I'll just have to live with the memories.

Re:Not Some Fry's Special

[NeverVotedBush]

I also miss Fry's. I used to live in Portland and there is one just south of there. Huge store. Sold just about everything electronic - including 603 surface mount resistors. Take that, Radio Shack. The place had everything and great deals too. But I moved away and now just remember when someone else mentions them. Sigh...

Re:VGA output? No thanks

[Constantine XVI]

I don't see any major earth-shattering differences between VGA, DVI, component, or HDMI on our TV. The type of hookup doesn't magically change the quality of the picture.

Oh, and you won't be seeing any CableCARD devices that aren't a part of a full system until roughly the same time the Earth is roasted by the Sun. You'd be better off finding a good cable box that's easily controllable by Myth.

Not the same

[SleepyHappyDoc]

The board in the Wal-mart PC is mini-itx. This one is micro-atx. There's a difference. I got all excited when I started reading this article...a $60 mini-itx board would be very nice indeed.

Re:Not the same

[Slashdot Junky]

Do you know for certain that the Everex PC ships with a mini-ITX board? Neither the product page on Everex's and Walmart's site specifies this, and the various reports I read across the web last week when this was launch weren't all in sync on the specs. I'd be shocked that two boards were manufactured, so called DEV micro-ATX board and the mini-ITX board installed in the PC.

Later,
-Slashdot Junky

Re:Not the same

[SleepyHappyDoc]

Apparently, it does not. The article I had read was recently updated to say the gPC has a micro-atx board.

Hahaha Dev Board... whatever...

[andreyw]

Apparently the only thing you need to peddle low-performing VIA-based crap these days is just to call it a "Dev Board". Hardware hack? What hardware hack? This is a basic run-off-the-mill PC motherboard. With a sloooowwww C7. If you're not hardware-modding your existing motherboards (via SMBus devices, or something else...) you are NOT MODIFYING THIS ONE EITHER.

"This is not a "low-cost board running Linux"... this is "a run-of-the-mill PC that can run Linux". And you're kidding yourself if you think that you cannot buy the same motherboard cheaper by going around these wily marketeers. What joke... and a slashvertisement. Buy Everex! Google in Everyone's Home!

Let's see what it DOESN'T have... This is like, seriously, 2004 tech here...
1) No gigabit.
2) Questionable AGP chipset
3) See 2 - No PCIe, given this is AGP.
4) VGA? At least not CGA...
5) Lots of legacy I/O ports no one cares about.

If you think you cannot by a BETTER motherboard for $60 is... well... I want some of whatever it is that you're smoking.

Re:Hahaha Dev Board... whatever...

[Anonymous Coward]

I do agree with you to a part but a better new mobo and cpu for 60?
if you know a cpu / mobo for 60$ please do tell

Re:Hahaha Dev Board... whatever...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought an AM2 mini-ITX board for 20 bucks cheaper. If I went with a 3000+ AM2 processor, it would have been exactly the same as this.

micro-atx is (yawn) boring

[TheGratefulNet]

teh new hotness(tm) is mini-itx or even smaller.

I called the local walmart to see if they had that cheapie pc in stock. they didn't. I didn't want to wait and I wanted to see what all this low-power VIA stuff was about.

so I got a true mini-ITX system which is using the same c7 cpu: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/1890660635_273662e3c9_o.jpg

note, it DOES RUN HOT. I am not kidding. I bought it as a fanless system to run myth-tv back-end on. it does - and it captures 2 HD streams ok over 10/100 VIA ethernet. but the heatsink runs VERY hot to the touch. no way could I even use a cover on that system for more than 15 minutes before it overheats.

if you plan to use that c7 cpu in something 'real', you better have good cooling.

More USB

[kylehase]

On a board this small they should have tossed the PS/2 and parallel ports and instead added some extra USB ports or e-SATA.

This motherboard is identical to the PCChips V21G

[HouseOfMisterE]

This motherboard has the identical layout and specifications as the PCChips V21G (1.5GHz Via C7, CN700/VT8237R+, etc.). I've owned one for several months, but haven't used it for much. It's currently set up dual-boot with WinXP Pro and Fedora Core 7. Video playback is kinda sluggish in Windows, and I haven't really messed around with multimedia playback in the linux install.

Re:VGA output? No thanks

[r_jensen11]

Maybe you can clear something up for me. I built a Myth frontend using an ASUS board (M2 NPV-VM) that supposedly had hdtv out on board, but I never got the fancy video options to work. I've ended up just using the VGA out (my 42" Panasonic HDTV has a computer input). It actually looks really good -- at 10' it's hard to distinguish the PVR signal from broadcast HDTV. I was surprised.

So I guess the two questions are: 1. Are you sure VGA won't do the job, and 2. What am I missing? Not all TV's have a VGA input. So if they only have Component, Composite, S-Video, and HDMI, then you're SOL if you have only VGA. I suppose you could get a converter to change a VGA plug to a DVI, but then you still have to use a DVI-HDMI cable.

But then again, I am posting this 3 hours after being at the bars. Have fun figuring out what the hell I said.

Linux support: warning

[Zoxed]

If you are hoping to get full Linux support for this board (from gOS Products):

"Experience our first developer product. We encourage developers to advance the currently limited driver support for this eco-friendly VIA board."

Everex TC2502 and Intel BOXD201GLYL compared

[OrangeTide]

Yea. those celerons mini-ITX boards look tempting. I've seen them around for quite some time.

celeron 1.33Ghz versus VIA C7 1.5Ghz - celeron is probably faster, VIA is lower power
celeron board is IDE only, no SATA. the VIA board has 2 SATA ports.
VIA board has room for two DIMMs(2GB max), Celeron board has only one DIMM(1GB max)
SiS Mirage graphics engine on the celeron, UniChrome on the via. neither are fast. and both can decode MPEG-2 in hardware. UniChrome CN700 can also do MPEG-4 decoding (and there is Linux support for this)

I think if you can live with uATX instead of mini-ITX, the Everex board wins in features and watts and price($10 cheaper). For mini-ITX there are few in the same price range as Intel's offering that compare in performance, I think the old 800MHz C3 EPIA board is the same price, but it far far away in terms of performance.

If the CPU isn't good enough, is the GOS?

[argent]

Over 4 years (expected lifespan?) how much is your time worth to you?

Enough to spend an extra $15 over TFA and get an AMD CPU, and a motherboard with an AM2 socket and nVidia GPU. If this setup isn't good enough, then likely the C7 1.5 GHz isn't either.

Re:VGA output? No thanks

[rhpenguin]

Or looking into DVB-S. That's what im doing and I love it! DVB-C stuff may come into play here too for you.
All Hauppauge stuff has great Linux support. (as im sure you already know...)

More important

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it run FreeBSD?

Re:More important

[canuck57]

Does it run FreeBSD?

Probably not but you could likely port it. Or... Soekris" has a nice package that runs a variety of FOSS OSes and is very power friendly. A friend uses OpenBSD and has quite good success with it.

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[account_deleted]

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[account_deleted]

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Where's one that takes a 12V supply?

[rhyre417]

The ATX-style powersupply is a pain to add in.

I want an inexpensive board like this that takes a 12V supply, or
a PC hd connector like the FPGA boards out there from http://www.digilentinc.com/

It would be easier to put these in autos or stack them up for
robotics projects that way.

- Ralph

Rounding Error?

[Anonymous Coward]

TFA reports Enlightenment at Version 17! The official Enlightenment site states: "The latest version of DR16 is 0.16.8.10,"

Nice to know LinuxDevices.com is on top of this.

gPC-via MB

[volinaz]

I just received my guick. PC last night and although I am not an Ubuntu user, I was quite surprised with the pc. Out of the box, little is installed. Simply login as root, and away you go. The pc handled package management (updates and new package installs) while I surfed the web, and added Plane and apache at the same time. The cpu ran at about 35-50%. I did not notice any overheating or a super hot heatsink. The software allows for cluster management which is why I bought this box. I intend to install 4 pentium4 motherboards in the same box as nodes, and allow the via board to play the role as head node. It does run enlightenment which was surprisingly fast. I did adjust some video refresh rates, but after I get everything installed I will run a gui. I have been using SuSE (yeah I know) for many years, and for the money this is a great deal. Going to use it as a webserver only, so I will update later. Should handle just about anything at this point. I will experiment with other OS's and such when I receive box #2.

Re:This motherboard is identical to the PCChips V2

[Anonymous Coward]

US$44.99, (~= ZIM$45) or open box US$28.99 (what does that tell you?) at newegg.

can it boot from USB?

[Coop]

I'd like to upgrade my floppyfw-based Linux firewall with one of these mobos to save power, but following the post's links I was unable to see if the Everex/FIC mobo supports booting from USB. Anybody know? This is a great solution for firewalls -- several times more CPU than needed for cable-modem speeds, and who cares about the graphics?

Anybody know of other good firewall-usage mobos (low-power, low-cost) that boot from USB?

What i'd do with this...

[thtrgremlin]

My thoughts:
59.99 Everex TC2502
19.99 Echo Star 450-Watt 20+4-pin ATX Power Supply
13.99 PQI 1GB USB Flash Drive i221
4.99 Airlink ASOHORL 10/100Mbps PCI Network Card
19.99DDR2 512MB PC6400 KINGSTON
$118.95 Total

Use another computer to load up your Live Ubuntu Minimal Server + SSH & DHCP. Pop it into the top of your network and have the most bad ass router ever devised (for under $120). Add in a Firewall, DNS, PXE itself? hard drive = apt-mirror / media center / NSF / proxy / whatever, but why for such a special little board. And to all those people that keep giving it bad reviews cause it doesn't play World of Warcraft, please stop a moment, stand up, and punch yourself in the nuts.

You can't get a TC2502 - sold out online

[gelfling]

and not available in any store. It's kind of a bait and switch, Wal*Mart version.

2GB?

[dolcraith]

Anyone know if the VIA chipset supports more than 1GB per DIMM?

Re:2GB?

[HouseOfMisterE]

dolcraith, I own a PCChips V21G motherboard, and it is the twin of the motherboard showcased in this article. Every color, component, and label (except the product name stenciled on the motherboard) is identical. I have 2x1GB DDR-II 533MHz memory modules installed and it is working just fine. Current install dual-boot WinXP and Fedora Core 7, but I'm about to blow away FC7 and install Fedora Core 8.

Re:2GB?

[HouseOfMisterE]

Oops, I misread your question and didn't provide an answer for you. According to the manual for the PCChips V21G (available for download from PCChips website): Memory Support > Two 240-pin DIMM sockets for DDR2 SDRAM single channel memory modules > Supports DDR2 533/400 memory bus > Maximum installed memory is 2 GB I can verify that the memory is single-channel only. I can't verify that maximum memory is 2GB, as I only have 1GB sticks available and the board has two slots.

Re:2GB?

[dolcraith]

I mean its an interesting system (could be better but not bad for a barebones mini-itx) but don't you think that this is the kind of information companies should provide? I mean reputable retailers such as Newegg doesn't post this information, and apparently neither do the chipset manufacturers.

The AT keyboard is easy ;)

[timothy]

For the AT keyboard, just get an AT-PS/2 adapter, and (my preference at least) a PS/2 - USB adapter, too. Works great -- that's the sort of setup I'm typing from right now, and it works great :) (Annoyingly, some Linux apps have started to assume that everyone has a "Windows" key on their keyboards, which I don't, but there's always some way to work around this ...)

timothy