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Shadowrun Finds a New Home
After the disastrous Xbox Shadowrun title and the closing of FASA Studios, it's not surprising to see Microsoft pushing the rights to videogames made in the Shadowrun IP off to greener pastures. Their new place of residence, though, is a bit of a pleasant shock: a new company founded by Jordan 'Zapper' Weisman. Gamasutra reports: "FASA, WizKids and 42 Entertainment founder Jordan Weisman has announced, via the website of his newest venture-backed startup Smith & Tinker, that he has licensed the 'electronic entertainment' rights to his MechWarrior, Shadowrun and Crimson Skies properties back from Microsoft ... It is unclear as of yet what form Weisman's plans for these franchises might take. But given the transmedia nature of his recent ventures, and job advertisements asking for experts with Web 2.0 and online game expertise, online world/MMO elements to the company's projects seem likely." Simon Carless has a few extra comments on the news over at GameSetWatch.
Not the same as "Smith and Tinker's", who make a really nice word-bubble art program. (This is a surprisingly hard job to get software to do well -- I like their program.)
http://www.smithandtinkers.com/
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Where do I sign up? Is there a fan boi bus yet? Can I drive?
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
I am glad Shadowrun is back in the hands of a competent company. I really hope he makes an updated Shadowrun game that was similar to the original. Hands down my favorite game for the Sega Genesis. Great blend of RPG, action, and cyberpunk storylines.
"But this one goes to 11!"
First the title is in the hands of a "new" company, but competent remains yet to be seen.
Second, in order to clarify your use of the word "original" game. . the first "game" was the pen & paper game. the first "original" videogame was the SNES version. The genesis version is a second videogame unrelated to the SNES version.
And I liked the SNES version quite a bit. Haven't played the Genesis version.
Can someone please stop screwing around and make a Shadowrun RPG?
Be able to pilot... all of the above.
Elemental suits / IS Armor if you want. Tanks and Hovers and the rest, if you want. Participate in mixed-army fighting.
Mechs, if you want. Build your way up in the fights on Solaris...
Aerotech - in both the atmosphere, and in space battles where 'Mechs are mostly sitting ducks.
Or take over being a gunner in one of the naval-class Dropships or JumpShips...
Properly designed, this has so much amazing potential! Think about it - people are still playing Mechwarrior 2 and Mechwarrior 4 online today. Virtual World simpod sites are doing great now that they got them away from Dave & Buster's and into the hands of people who care about them and will do the maintenance, and they're about to release the updated version of Red Planet in a few months.
Think about how well the old Mechwarrior online "persistent universe" (Mechwarrior 3025, look it up, one of the first large-scale MMOs) was shaping up before MS pulled the licensing out from under it. Now consider how much 8 more years of hardware power can do for it.
The big problem that I see is generating a credible world. WoW works because it is a fantasy world and so they can have these huge open spaces and towns that are comprised of a couple of buildings. Shadowrun on the other hand is all about the urban sprawl and dense urban environments. I could be wrong but I don't think that there is game engine out there that can handle all of the NPCs, plus a bunch of players, plus all of the various vehicles operating both on the street and in the air. The WoW model when you are dead and running back to your corpse could be expanded upon to create the seperation between the astral space and the physical world.
What do you guys think? Can a model be created using the current hardware that could accurate recreate an urban game world that would be required for Shadowrun?
Shadowrun is a perfect franchise for making a modern sandbox RPG. Heck, I'd be thrilled if someone just remakes a 3D version of the fantastic Genesis Shadowrun title. The whole time I've been playing Mass Effect, I keep thinking how easy it would be for someone to use that engine for Shadowrun (in fact, a lot of ME's elements are similar to Shadowrun on the Genesis, it's mainly just a different setting and calling magic "technology"). A good Shadowrun game would be enough motivation for me to buy a console for it if it were exclusive.
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
You can already play as a Johnson in Second Life.
Oh, wait...
Hey, I remember when Shadowrun came out -- as a role-playing game (i.e. books, pencils, paper and dice). Great concept. Somehow I missed the transition to electronics completely. I'm not getting old, am I?
Whatever system they come up with would have to take cover, etc into account. As much as I hate to say it, it would necessarily have to have elements of a FPS.
I don't really see your point about generating a credible world, what makes WoW any more or less credible than any other fictional setting? City of Heroes is in an urban setting and it seemed to handle numerous NPC, vehicles and all sorts of PCs running around just fine. Zoning makes a lot of that easier, and in that sense Shadowrun would probably operate like 99% of all the other MMOs out there right now. I don't think body runs would necessarily work that well, waking up in a hospital (or DocWagon as the case may be) seems much more likely.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
... it was a bad game, or more because MS coerced these guys into releasing a Vista only game in May or so, if I recall, Valve's gamer survey only had Vista installs at 4.3% at the time. Yes I know there was a hack, and I know most gamers won't go to that trouble. Honestly the game was released during a vacuum, I didn't play it, I don't know that there was anything there worth spending 50 bucks on, but I honestly believe it might have been a successful title had it not been for the willful "Vistassasination" of it (yes I just made that up).
I've never played City of Heroes so I can't really comment on what the game world is like. I figure for something like Shadowrun you would have to instantiate the insides of buildings but have everything else taking place in real time. Unlike WoW instances, I'd imagine that other people would be able to enter into buildings at any time and that it wouldn't be limited to the team that initially went in there.
I can honestly say that I could spent the rest of my life teaching martial arts and project managing a Shadowrun MMO and be completely happy.
The XBox shadowrun game failed to appeal to many Shadowrun fans, because it was not Shadowrun (as we know it). It was a glorified CounterStrike, with some special powers. I realize I am NOT doing it justice, but it would be similar to if they released a game called "Star Wars", but where all you could do was play Sabacc, or play in the Mos Eisley Cantina Band.
;)), or even a single player CRPG in the scope of Mass Effect, Deus Ex, Neverwinter Nights, and the Elder Scrolls series games. A game where you can make and break political alliegances, where the player is NOT always the hero (but is often be the pawn), and where surviving to the next run can be as big an achievement as saving the princess. Similarly, it has to also allow the player to occasionally feel like a Badass, since it's pretty much a John Woo film with orks and trolls and trideo stars (oh my!). I don't know HOW such a game could ever get made, but I am looking forward to playing Mass Effect in hopes that it will be a good enough placebo. :)
"Jizz-Wailer Hero" or "Sabacc", while they might be very good games, would completely fail to come close to doing justice to the full spectrum (or even part of it) of the Star Wars universe. It's this level of failure which applies. (I use Star Wars because not only have there been games which did a great job of capturing major parts of it (Xwing, TIE fighter, and the Jedi Knight series), but it's a franchise which many of us Slashdotters are intimately familiar with -- whereas Shadowrun is relatively much more obscure.
Shadowrun as a roleplaying game has MANY facets, but many of the themes (especially the power of multinational corporations, and the existence of "black-ops" teams of various alliegance) are covered very well (but incompletely) by Deus Ex. Considering how awesome and varied DX was, and that it STILL doesn't cover the social aspects of Shadowrun, you can I hope see why most of us Shadowrun fans hoped for something MUCH much more meaty.
The Shadowrun Game that we might want would possibly be an MMO (to help model the chaos of multiple runner teams of varying alliegance
Wow, I thought that damned Xbox game was going to sink any hope of seeing a decent Shadowrun computer game at any point in the future. Who'd have thought the thing sucking so much would turn out to be the thing that now gives me hope of a decent game being made :)
That doesn't sound too bad. Like you said the terrain would be a big issue. I always hated it in WoW, City of Heroes, etc that a mob that was locked on to you (or vice versa) could hit you through a corner. Mission specific instances would be great for Shadowrun, especially for BnE runs.
You should give City of Heroes a try sometime, they did a really great job with the whole Super-hero/comic book MMO.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
To all the confused Shadowrunners out there: They don't actually mean Shadowrun, but some sad and sorry (repreated?) attempt to make a computer game of it.
... I'm actually gonna go over to my RPG folder now and flipp through some old characters ... Ahhh, the memories :-) .
I still got Shadowrun btw. (2nd Edition I think). Gosh, were those rules crappy and incoherent. And gosh did we have fun with that RPG.
To all you out there who've never played an RPG (I mean the real ones, Pen & Paper): If you come across Shadowrun in an RPG store or somewhere else: Buy it. The rules are mostly totally braindead, but the entire setting, it's lighthearted, frictionless approach to RPGing and the RPG sessions it leads to are pure fun. And a RPG newbie can pick them up in ten minutes. Roleplaying is an ideal way to have fun with your friends and get away from the screen once in a while. And Shadowrun's a far better alternative than D&D imho.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Shadowrun wasn't purely about urban environments. You had Tir Tairngire, Ireland, Australia, and so on. Mt Rainier in America was also used as the setting for one of the novels I read.
Yes, I hope someone does something intelligent with the property, in terms of games. If that meant an MMORPG, I'd play it, if they had the same people working on it that they had doing the fiction/artwork for the rulebooks and they got the vibe right.
Personally, I'd want an SR2 setting...I used to have that rulebook, and I feel that with SR3 and after they screwed things up a bit.
The single main thing about SR that saddened me a bit was when I read on William Gibson's blog that he hated it, since the SR novels were actually what led me to read (or perhaps try to read would be a more honest way of saying it) Neuromancer. To me it seemed fairly obvious that the Shadowrun character Dodger was inspired by the Dixie Flatline...they're very very similar.
check out city of heroes, that engine has big city zones and alot of people in them, also another good example of an engine that would be good for that is ryzomes swarm engine.
The Vista version was pretty useless, but it sucked on the Xbox 360 too so it was no great loss.
As much as I would love to agree, I think a MechWarrior MMO would suffer the same basic problem as any StarWars MMO with the Jedi trait: Nearly everyone would play the game to become a Mech jockey, and people would (perhaps rightfully) cry foul if they were to pay for a MechWarrior game and be unable (or only after epic grinding) to pilot a Mech.
What? Are you the type of person wants that plays Jimmy Olsen in a superhero game or Mrs. Moneypenny in a spy game? You don't make a superhero RPG that starts you out as a helpless normal guy, and you don't make a superspy game where you play the secretary. And you don't make a freaking mecha game where you play the mechanic!
Maybe the problem with Star Wars was not that everyone wanted to play a Jedi but that the designers of the game didn't let them have their wish. I mean, honestly, who signs up for a Star Wars game and thinks, "Oh gosh! You can play a dancer? Ooh, ooh! I was so signing up to haul freight around the Star Wars universe, but dancing in a cantina is soooo much more compelling!"
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
To be fair, I don't think theres a lot Gibson likes in the cyberpunk area of fiction. To totally butcher Clark. He used to say something like... Whatever you write, is normally what you enjoyed as a child/teenager, its your well of ideas, the thing that captivated your interest. But, once you start to write professionally, you move on, you stop reading things in those areas, and go to other areas. Once your job becomes creating a certain type of world. You no longer want to spend your free time living in them. Or something like that....
Crazy talk. A competent GM and players make their own story. All a game needs to do is present the opportunity for adventure and a good kicker for where to go. Shadowrun presents plenty of opportunity in the form of corporate espionage, bodyguarding, investigation, and good old bug (shaman) hunts. The election of the dragon Dunkelzahn as president, his assassination, and his will are great adventure hooks.
Not everyone needs a module to script out and hold the hands of a play group to enjoy a game. In fact, I've always felt that trying to shove a story down the throat of your customers made for games that had no real replay value. (Look at White Wolf's Orpheus for an example. It's by no means a bad game, but it's not playable twice, really.)
Incidentally, Shadowrun had several publisher created adventures for the creatively challenged, so your whole point is moot.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
The key to making Shadowrun (or any other game set in a densely populated urban environment) is to use instanced dungeons / quests / missions. You want to have only a handful of Shadowrunner teams in the same mission. Most missions should be with a solo team or with a few teams in competition. Groups running around randomly without causing trouble for each other is really not fitting with the setting.
Another huge challenge for a Shadowrun MMO would be finding useful roles that Deckers and Riggers can play in the game without having to create an entire parallel game experience. (I doubt that much could be done for Fixers without doing so.)
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I'm all ready for another go at Mechwarrior. I'd love to see MechCommander 3 as well. Not too sure about a Mech MMO though. Finally, a ray of hope after M$ crushed 'Mech fans hearts a few years ago.
If they make the MMORPG using the spirit of the RPG that FASA made back in the 90's, it would reach so many genres it would almost be a sure hit with most gamers.
A quality game engine, incorporating all of the popular concepts of the game - magic, cybernetics, vehicle combat, and cyberspace.
But I fear the task would be too big and risks too high for most game companies to even consider, it'll be a dream of many who have played the RPG version of Shadowrun.
... lots of different factions, and a kind of neat 'gamespace' for everything, with the 1940's technologies. Kind of like Captain something and the World of Tomorrow.
If Shadowrun was done in the way Mass Effect (In terms of combat, dialog, and character development) then you got the perfect frame work for a game that does the Shadowrun name justice.
Such a system could be applied to a MMO type template as well.
Definately possible. The game Matrix Online was a massive urban sprawl and it worked just fine on computer hardware that is now (2 years old). I really am hoping that an MMO based on the Shadowrun world is created. If they do it right.. and base it on twitch combat (similar to Tabula Rasa).. it could be a huge seller. Just has to offer something original.. and that would be the game history and stories. I remember playing the PNP of Shadowrun long ago, and it was always a blast. So much versatility.. and you could choose to be a modern punk.. or an aged troll. I see alot of potential if they approach this with the player in mind (instead of corp green).
"Don't let the past dictate who you are, only let it be part of who you become..."
Shadowrun + Jordan = Hawtness. That is all.
If you have played this game you will know it's a really good game which is lacking a campaign. If it had a campaign everyone would think Halo 3 was a pretty poor game. -John
You know what the last good Shadowrun game was? Shadowrun for the Sega Genesis.
You know why that was the last good Shadowrun game? They used the already existing pen & paper system and incorporated it within a new story. It was a top down RPG featuring all the different areas of Seattle: Redmond Barrens, Renraku Arcology, Downtown Seattle, even the Native American reservations, as well as the familiar locations: Lone Star Police Department, Hollywood Correctional Facility.
It had dozens of weapons, flak jackets, grenades, stim patches, cyberware, decks, programs etc. etc. etc. It incorporated the karma system with dozens of skills and the familiar attributes.
And, it included deckers, which changed the game into a first person like "matrix" where the user had to bypass nodes protected by various ice. The better the deck and programs, the faster the load time on your "attacks", and the more storage in your deck, the more files you could download, thus more money you could get from your fixer.
Sounds just like the pen and paper huh? Which is why this is considered one of the best RPG games released on the Genesis, not too mention far, far superior to the SNES version.
When I saw that trite, shite released for the X-Box, what was it, the Shadowrun multiplayer deathmatch, I wanted to vomit. It made no sense, of all the multiplayer games you could release, why would you basterdize the Shadowrun name by forcing it into a genre it never, ever could fit into? The most obvious solution would be to create a Shadowrun game with an "Oblivion-type" experience. It's practically begging to be made as such.
If they're going to make a Shadowrun game, make a Shadowrun game. Don't make a game released to a "specific demographic". It fails almost everytime.
As the parent said, the game had issues because it didn't seem to hit any of the groups of people who tend to buy things. It alienated fans of the original concept of Shadowrun by not being Shadowrun. It alienated fans of multiplayer FPS's by not including same system multiplayer. It alienated fans of single player FPS's by not including a story mode. But if you can get past all of those (admittedly massive) flaws, the basic gameplay was surprisingly fun. I personally prefer the online multiplayer of it to Halo 3. It has much more depth and strategy involved.